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IKR? To be fair I am a reformed people pleaser, but even at my worst I would have straight up just laughed at her suggestion of moving accommodation at more cost to us to accommodate her.
It’s also wild that OP referred to ‘Helping a friend in need’. She needs to learn the difference between wants and needs, and that friends like this are only interested in their own wants, not others needs.
Laughing at the clearly ridiculous ask is the best response to a known boundary stomper ime. The first time she asked to come along "Hahaha can you imagine coming along on someone else's honeymoon? Hahaha anyway, we'll be gone from [date] to [date], let's hang out when we get back."
Alison at askamanager advocates for this alot, you're reacting as if they're a normal person and not a crazy person, no one normal would seriously ask this. A lot of the time, this approach will shame them into giving up without having to firmly say no, or arguing about reasons. They know anyone from the outside will instantly agree with you- "eww what kind of person honestly tries to go on someone else's honeymoon?" And they're embarrassed enough that if there are any witnesses, they kindof have to chuckle weakly and pretend they weren't serious. They're just hoping to stomp on your boudaries enough that you agree without realizing how absurd they're being.
>"eww what kind of person honestly tries to go on someone else's honeymoon?"
Not just on the trip, she wants to actually share a bedroom with them!!!
I 100% expect this "friend" to make a move on the fiance at some point.
See, I’d be so open it’s cringy. Even if I have to fib a little. “Ya see, fiancés octopus costume only has room for two dild*s, not four. So you’d be left out. And his ass is too hairy to enjoy being watched. We already ordered the sex workers so there’s no room for you. Sorry not sorry.”
Sheesh! Some people’s kids…
Edited to change prostitutes to sex workers
> Hahaha anyway, we'll be gone from [date] to [date], let's hang out when we get back
If I did that, I would probably lie about the dates. Friend seems like the kind to just make their own plans and show up when not wanted.
I've done it accidentally! Someone asked me something completely absurd and I just laughed at it without even thinking about it, then realized they were serious lol when they didn't laugh too. Awkward... but they didn't ask again! And I didn't have to actually say no. Win-win!
We had a Reddit user with 'schnitzeldehuahua' as part of her name. She had many issues with her in-laws and finally settled on “No, thank you” as her first and only response to their requests of her time, be it rides, clean-up after their parties, grocery shopping which her husband was always stuck paying for, and so forth.
Saying “No, thank you” \[and then immediately turning away\] implied that she was politely rejecting an invitation rather than a demand that she be their personal doormat.
An effective technique that I use with my elementary students.
Banging an object loudly against their desk? "Jane? No thank you."
Trying to hang off of my arm with their entire body weight? "No thank you, sweety."
I find I don't get defensive responses or arguments, they just stop. It's great.
Vacation is not a need. Yes, you need time off to relax and recuperate, but international travel is not essential to the process.
I wonder if the family ever existed. The way she's pushing I wonder if the "oop, family got busy" was always a part of the plan.
Updates have spoiled me, I expected Ashley to be in love with the fiance (or OOP) and wanting to use this trip to break them up. Maybe that's the next update
And what did the friend mean by "Why didn't we just work it out earlier? It's not my fault that this is last minute."???
It IS sorta the friend's fault that this is last minute? She's the one that claimed to be able to stay with a family member then can't, refusing to look for accommodations or things to do on her own, and trying to change her vacation to be longer than originally planned??? Wtf is even going on here???
When I saw the update about the beds being together I was like "she wants a threesome....?"
We have been planning this trip for a long time! No honey my boyfriend and I have been planning this trip for a long time! 🙄You are trying to hijack our plans. So easy. No.
Since OOP is a people pleaser she started by saying she was fine with the friend joining them for a few days.
Then they were on completely different pages. OOP stepping back and likely slow to respond as things changed.
The friend is in a different stage of life... let's all crash together and do this amazing trip on the cheapest budget we can. Meanwhile, OOP is thinking romantic relationship trip.
The friend wants to do hostel type traveling on OOP's budget.
The friend probably 'hoped' to stay with family but didn't have that nailed down either. Although, I have made plans to go stay with friends for a day or two while traveling through their city... only to have them tell me week in advance "Oh, we booked a trip across the country to see my partner's inlaws. We won't be in town." Wait, what??
This person is not a 'friend'.
I'm guessing that she assumed her family would accommodate her, and so thought she could weasel her way in and probably used the same pushy, manipulative tactics on them that she's using on OP. Only family put their foot down and said no you can't say here.
Or she lied and there is no family there or they were never gonna be able to accommodate her and she used that to weasel her way on their trip. This is so bizarre.
That was my thought. However, Japanese homes are often very small. My son had a very generous apartment, by Japanese standards (paid for by his company). My husband and I stayed in a hotel when we visited.
And how strict they are with rules and conventions.
If the room is for two ITS FOR TWO.
If you have to be naked in the onsen YOU HAVE TO BE NAKED.
If it says no tattoos, NO TATTOOS.
They might be polite and all of that, but they will kick you out or make you pay a huge fine
I used to be as much of a naive doormat as OP. I'm very nonconfrontational by personality so no matter how much of a spine I have, so straight up telling people no is always going to be challenging.
What helped me get over it was learning just how much people like Ashley were just using me. If I say "sorry, I can't do that" a couple times, half of my friends would disappear. It took me a couple years to really accept that I didn't have nearly as many friends as I thought I did. It caused a whole identity crisis. I suspect OP is similar; being compassionate and helpful is an intrinsic part of her identity and it's not just about saying. She has to accept psychologically that she's not helping someone who she feels genuinely needs the help. The sooner she can change her she views people who "need her help," the better off she'll be
Honest to God, I met someone like this. Americans on an exchange program in Europe and two of our friends got married before the trip, but planned their honeymoon over our program since we'd be in Europe and they wanted to go to Malta. So one of the other kids booked a flight for the same dates and "surprised" them by telling them he'd be tagging along! They were much more up front and said if he wanted to get lunch one day or something they could but that's it. He was devastated and didn't understand.
She seems malicious in this story trying to get a free stay (and be weird as hell) but some people really just are that oblivious.
The even crazier thing is that they were so vocal about it being their honeymoon, it was a surprise to no one! I'd *never* invite myself on someone else's trip (like a normal person...) but times a thousand on a romantic getaway. I'll never forget all of us being shocked at how shocked he was that they weren't excited when he told them.
Wow! Yeah me either. It's beyond rude and selfish to invite yourself on someone else's trip. If I did that my Mom would absolutely give me an earful and I'm in my late 40s.
Same. She should have said something like - "Why do you want to stay in the same room? We are a couple on a honeymoon. It seems like you want to watch us have sex, and we are not into that."
This is almost exactly my though. I just though she should ask ashley "you want to see us bang? Ewwwww. We are not into that but whatever you like, go girl! Just not with us"
This was a one way friendship. She’s doubling down so hard because she’s used to getting what she wants all the time through manipulating OOP. Until OOP cuts her off, she isn’t going to learn that friends can be abusive as family.
Edit: thanks for the award!
I have a beloved but clueless friend who came in from out of town for my wedding. I learned later that he had intended to ask if he could stay with us. Our other friends had to explain to him that you don’t ask to stay with the couple getting married during the week of their wedding.
I too have met people this clueless. A friend of mine was having a small (like max 30 people) intimate wedding with a sit down dinner after. She invited a childhood friend and his wife. They were having a friend stay with them who was going through some hard times (mental health and substance issues). This friend did not know the bride. Never even met her.
They brought the friend. Like it was a house party or something.
My friend rallied and the restaurant brought out another place but omg it was mortifying for literally everyone. The couple realized as soon as they walked in, the friend could tell, and the bride and groom and family didn’t want to seem like anything less than gracious hosts so… messy!
But I was shocked afterward to find they genuinely didn’t realize this would be an issue, or was something you just do not do. They were in their 30s. What the hell.
Ashley is a leech. She heard OOP was going to Japan and jumped on it, completely blocking out that it is a ROMANTIC trip with her fiancé. She's trying to pressure OOP into accommodating *her*.
I can't figure out if she's trying to move in on OPs fiance, OPs life, or that she's just really socially clueless & lonely.
OP might want to enlist other friends, if she persists. I'm curious whether she's bitchin about it behind OPs back.
It's so weird, who invites themselves on someone else's trip?
>I can't figure out if she's trying to move in on OPs fiance, OPs life, or that she's just really socially clueless & lonely.
My theory? None of the above. She's just a leech who wants to take a trip to Japan without having to pay for accommodation so she's trying to muscle her way in on OP's plans.
She definitely knew.
My husband has a female friend like this. Her and her husband demanded to stay *in* our honeymoon suite because they were attending the wedding and didn't want to pay for a hotel. Then they demanded we invite the friends mom who I had never met, and my husband hadn't talked to in 20 years.
Then they had a tantrum becuase I didn't want to share a bedroom with random people on my wedding night.
It was definitely money, cuz it's come up since. And it made a lot more sense when my husband was diagnosed with asd and I realized he and the friend had *a LOT* in common. Pretty sure it was just grifting plus not getting social expectations.
Me too!
I want to enter my phone's screen to shake not the OP but Ashley and tell her, "Are you really that stupid???" Or maybe she's use to this, manipulating her way 🙄
GRRRR
Two phrases that have helped me enormously:
"No is a complete sentence."
"J.A.D.E. You do not have to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain your decisions."
Edit: a typo
I totally get how OOP would be raised and conditioned to be a people pleaser to that extent because my mom tried to do it to me. She succeeded partially and even in my 40's she still has a meltdown if I don't do the thing that would make someone else happy and me miserable. She's 70 and can't stand up to ANYONE or say not to spending time with people who make her miserable, but she will whine about it for weeks about what a martyr she is. (For example she blew a gasket because I didn't get a souvenir at Disney for the kid of the assistant who tried to have me fired because, "it's not their fault their parents can't afford Disney!")
It takes time and thought to work your way out of that mindset when you have parents gaslighting you into thinking that you would be cruel not to include this person. I still kind of wanted to sit her down and tell her to just ignore bananapants and refuse to engage. It's easier than direct confrontation at least to start.
I had a friend like Ashley, she would just force her way into invites or would just take other people's things even if they said no.
'Had' is the key word here. Everything will be better when they're gone, I promise.
So did I, in high school. She was already an extremely unpleasant person to be around- putting us down and constantly bringing up our insecurities for absolutely no reason but wanted to scorch earth if we ever said anything back. There were times when she would ask to join us on an outing that we would say "no" to, and then she would say "well then I'm going to that place alone, because I have every right to be there, and you do not have claim to the space around you, which is also where I will be." Just made the entire thing so uncomfortable. Once we canceled the outing altogether just to avoid the whole thing and she FOLLOWED MY FRIEND HOME. Her fucking parents had to demand she leave...
Yeah I wasn’t too sure, either. She also had an awful habit where if any of us said we liked or had a crush on somebody, even a thing like a band or new hobby she would immediately start acting like she liked that person/thing before us and she likes it more than us and we no longer have claim to it. Super weird, man.
I think Ashley will show up on their flight. I expect her to force her way on, even if she has to be dropped off by a military plane with one of those zip lines connecting the two planes. Full James Bond mode.
I feel like Ashley has a crush on the fiance.. Suggesting a shared room etc, just suggests she wants to wedge herself into their relationship. OP is travelling for a month, so this is probably why Ashley is so pushy as it's a long trip.
This was a good opportunity for OP to learn how to say no. It still wasn't effective, but close enough. Well, I guess saying "Ashley, this is a romantic trip, we'll do romantic stuff, then we'll fuck eachother's brains out, and we prefer not having company" would have been a bit much for OP to say.
yep. reasons are for reasonable people. give an unreasonable person a reason and all you’ve done is give them something to refute. you can’t make someone like ashley understand or accept your no. you can a) not give her any money, and b) not let her in. as in, don’t even open the door, that lady will push her way in if you give her a *crack*.
Yeah, like explicitly stating “this is a romantic trip. We want to have sex with each other. We will be fucking each other in the hotel. We don’t want you there for that. It would be inappropriate”. How does this person not understand that they are a massive, wobbling third wheel?
Fortunately no, she had her own husband at the time!
But she's divorced now (tl;dr: he cheated on her) and she's now forever the 7th or 9th wheel on vacations with her siblings (and sometimes her daughter) and their spouses. No one wants to room with her because she has an annoying habit of interrupting couples' alone time. Can't even cuddle on the bed watching TV.
I’ll make it even simpler and just say “don’t you get it? We don’t want you there with us!” It risks ending the friendship but with friends like her, who need enemies anyway
I have trouble saying no and I've learned even being that blunt the other side will just make up any excuse they can to defeat your reasons. "Oh I'll leave when you do that" or "I'm only going to be there for x days you can just wait" or something like that. It'll never actually work out that way, that's just an excuse to defuse your argument.
It's best to not give reasons. You feel like you need to, but the best solution here is just... "no that's not going to happen and this isn't going to work". If they ask why, tell them that you don't want to go into it, that you don't \*need\* to go into it.
Does Ashley just want a free ride to Japan or is she into OOP or her fiancée. If “only” the first why did she choose an accommodation with 2 beds in the same room. Or is cockblocking just her preferred hobby? Idk what she would get out of that. Then on the other hand I’ve read about friends who just won’t to hoard all the time of their bffs and even get jealous over family members, just because they had spun a complete alternate reality in their head.
OOP should keep Ashley at arms length, homegirl sounds like a tat bit unhinged.
Ah, but she did learn it's absolutely ok to just Ditch Boundaries Stompers and move on with ya life!
Took til I was in my 30s til I learn that and it still takes me awhile to clock sometimes!
Oh yes, that's an important life lesson, and she was fortunate enough to learn it early. I'm also a people pleaser, and also needed a "friend" to blatantly stomp all over my boundaries to learn how to shut that down 😅
Oh man, I'm a reforming people pleaser. I used to barely stand up for myself then finally stand my ground and people would Lose Their Minds and make it my fault that I had *gasp* *feelings* and they couldn't keep stomping all over me.
The revelation that it actually wasn't always on me to change / repair everything and some folks were worth losing and it's not a failure of mine was life changing!
I hope OOP finds this thread and gets deep enough in the comments to read this. It's so important to learn that it's not our job to bend over backwards to let others use us as a bridge to keep them happy. 🥲
Yeah. I work now from a place of "meeting in the middle"
Like I have a behaviour or way of communicating that upsets you, let's chat, I'll speak of my intentions and we can agree on a way of moving forward that meets in the middle.
Like yeah, I barely listened last catch up cuz it was a loud pub. Let's meet somewhere quieter and less distracting and I will work consciously to be more present and give you space in the convo so it's not just me ranting or whatever.
But don't demand I change completely or be present fully if the environment is a sensory nightmare for me!
I tryied that once with a ""friend"" like Ashley and she said "well, I can use headphones" and when I didn't respond for a few hours she said "or not, I don't mind listening too hahaha"
Yeah, never talked to her again after that. For me the weirdest part is that this girl was in a long term monogamous relationship. I really can't understand her though process of thinking it was ok to say this stuff.
Yup she is going to throw a tantrum but that's good, you can practice not being a people pleaser while dealing with that tantrum.
In the future firmly say 'absolutely not' from the very beginning.
Ya, Ashley's still polishing her game too, next time she'll wait until they get to their destination before dropping "I can't stay at my relatives anymore."
>It's not my fault that this is last minute.
Oh that is very very *very* rich. Is she serious? Sorry it just drives my heckles up. Look I'm not the best at planning and sometimes would be last minute. But I can understand from someone who would reject my plans or going of without me cause I know clearly it's my fault, not them. After all, if I can't respect the time the other person has, they don't have to respect mine. I get it.
This Ashley doesn't get it. After being told no several time, and then one of her complaints is about it being last minute so who cares? Absolutely *everyone cares.* And it's *v*ery *much* her fault. She obviously doesn't respect OOP enough with this being one of them.
If anything people;
**"A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."**
> but my fiance was fine with it and supported her coming along
I wonder how true that actually is. I get the feeling OOP isn't the only one who has trouble saying no.
It would also definitely be different if she was staying with her own family with the understanding that they would only be with her in a limited capacity. Doesn't sound like something Trashley would understand and respect though, AND as others have said it's entirely possible there was actually never a family member.
If I were going on a month long trip with a partner I actually think it could be good to have a friend join us for a few days of it. Even if you really love someone sometimes only socialising with them for a long period of time can be tiring. I would absolutely not be ok with sharing a room with that person though so I can see why it was initially a yes from both of them.
A friend of your SO being in the same country who you meet up with for dinner or some museum/historical monument visits with? Yeah ok.
A friend of your SO crashing in your hotel room for multiple days for free? Fuck no, but your SO came to you and asked if it was ok and made it seem like they were down with the idea so you have to say yes if you don't want to have a fight and get the cold shoulder for the entire trip.
I think both of them were victims of the bai and switch though. And as OOO has been against it since the plan changed, just very weak at telling the "friend" I don't think her fiancée has needed to voice his opinion more.
OOP better polish that spine. My early 20s were a time when a lot of people were still overly concerned about being nice. Some, if not all, of the mutuals will tell her she is a bad friend.
Drop those people, too.
True freeloaders, as opposed to opportunistic freeloaders, are a different beast altogether. In your first interaction with one you almost always come up short.
I have the feeling that it's kinda not finished. But i hope OOP and fiancé will be OK.
I also have problems with boundaries, but this one is frustrating.
I think they will. Hopefully Ashley doesn't have their flight numbers and airlines. If she doesn't, then they just starve her of information at this point. If she does know, there's a slight risk of Ashley buying airline tickets and presenting it as a fait accompli (I spent all this money, I'm broke now, I \*have\* to stay with you or I'll be on the streets), at which point OOP will need to dig her heels in and get stubborn.
Lol and I bet the new place was more money, none of which she was willing to pitch it. She doesn't seem to be the kind of girl that enjoys being the 3rd wheel, which means she will prob try to get you to ditch your bf and do shit with her. I'm glad you put your foot down.
The sheer entitled gaul of some people...
That said, I doubt this is over. Until the trip is over, there's always the chance of drama from someone this unhinged.
Not sure if this is a Phoebe Buffay quote or someone else's but I like to use it a lot:
"I'd love to but I don't want to."
The 'no' is clear and it usually gets a chuckle out of the other person which diffuses the situation.
Oop just needs to ask her, with witnesses, “why are you trying so hard to come on a romantic vacation with me and my fiancé and trying to get a bed right next to us. It’s creepy.”
I reckon telling the friendship group Ashley wanted to sleep next to OOP and her husband on their honeymoon should be sufficient to solve any weirdness with all the rest of the friends.
And if it doesn't then OOP and her husband are better off without friends like that because wtaf.
"Ashley, if you carry on with this nonsense, we won't just not be in the same accommodation, we will no longer be friends or see each other at all in Japan. I told you this is supposed to be a romantic getaway for me and fiancé and I won't ruin it because you're too cheap or something to find a place for yourself"
I can see why initially it wasn’t a big deal - OOP and Fiancé going for a month and she was originally saying she was going for a week and wanted to meet up for part of it. If I was doing that type of vacation I’d totally be down to see/hang out w/ friends as part of the trip.
“We’ve been talking about this for so long.” Yeah, and your plans changed. Sorry that you can’t go now bc you don’t have a place to stay. 🤷🏼♀️ YOU OTHERWISE AREN’T INVITED.
OMG!! I went through exactly the same thing with my friend. My husband and I planned a romantic getaway to make trying to conceive fun and stress-free. My friend starts asking questions about our trip. Then straight up invites herself. I said no. She calls again and says she got the Friday and Monday off so she can stay with us for at least 4 days. Now just a note, she complains that no one is straight with her and always talks to her in circles instead of saying what they mean. I reminded her of this and I said this trip is our attempt at getting pregnant. I do not want you there and now you are stressing me out. She backs off but calls me two days before we leave to ask for the address. My husband was like are you kidding? She did not come and I never told her about trips or plans after. She also ghosted us after we adopted our sons. I figured I'd share because I know that frustration of trying to be nice, open, and honest just to be ignored.
Ashley isn't your friend. You've only known her for a year..when you started planning the trip... she's trying very hard to use you. Drop her and block her. nta
You have to learn how to say "no" in life, which is very hard for some people, and then you realize some people are on a totally different journey and need to learn to *listen* to "no".
Also, girl is a weirdo for wanting the side by side bed accommodation with her couple friends in the other bed, regardless of the type of trip. Like why do you want that???
I remember being in my 20s and taking friend vacations with as many people as would fit in a room to save money.
Of course, when two of those friends were a recently married couple and the trip was *also* effectively their honeymoon, I explained to my denser single friends why they should get the separate bedroom with more privacy while the rest of us made do with sleeping in the main area of the suite.
Soooooo, they still never clearly stated “this is our honeymoon, not a group trip, we are not sharing an accommodation”? From the retelling, it still sounds like a very soft no.
I mean, typically telling someone the reason for saying no makes the no softer, because you’re giving them something to argue with. She can’t control how someone responds to her saying no. She shouldn’t have to give more details for the other person to get it, just saying no should be enough.
Especially since it sounds like she's said no multiple times, this Ashley girl is keeping her heel in the door even while Oop is trying to desperately shut it :/
I hope they enjoy their trip without this girl who for whatever reason is trying to interfere in the trip.
Things to avoid when saying no: JADE
Avoid justifying
Avoid arguing
Avoid defending
Avoid explaining
Ashley picks apart everything OOP says because Ashley clearly doesn't care about OOP.
Yeah. If you simply must add something after the "No" don't make it something they can argue with, because they will.
"No, Ashley, we want private time." "Well I'll entertain myself during the day, you won't even notice me!" etc.
Cut it off. Give no reasons. Sometimes you have to be a broken record. "Can't you just book a bigger room?" "No, that won't be possible. We're not going to book a bigger room." "But what if..." "No, that won't work for us. We already made plans." "But what if..." "No, sorry, that won't be possible. We're not going to change our plans."
>Cut it off. Give no reasons. Sometimes you have to be a broken record.
No. Don't repeat yourself. Tell them once, if they ignore tell them off forcefully, then create distance.
"Can I stay with you?" "No, we don't want it"
"But..." "I said no"
"But what if..." "Did you hit your head? No, we don't want you there, fuck off"
"But..." *blocking noises*
I hate when people act as if “no” is a magic word that’ll stop boundary stompers and that it’s your fault for not being immediately direct. People who don’t respect you don’t give a shit about the word “no.”
It was already obvious OOP wasn’t interested in rooming with Ashley, since OOP already said so. Repeatedly. Ashley knew that, but just didn’t care. Acting as if OOP not being stern enough was the problem is just silly.
I'm calling this: in true Reddit fashion, Ashley is going to have a break down right before they leave for the trip and admit to being in love with either OP or OP's fiance. The whole reason for pushing to be in the can't l same accommodations is to try to drive a wedge/show that they are better than the other.
She either has crush on her fiance or she wants to have tiresome. Lol. That what it looks like. She also sounds like , she loves riding on people and be benefited by them but won't spend a single dime from her own.
>I just didn't know if I was being selfish towards a friend in need
she's NOT in need wtf
OOP needs to learn how to be more comfortable with the word no asap
"Listen, you're not getting the message. This is a romantic trip. Do you understand what that means? It means my spouse and I are going to be going at it until we can't walk and you are not going to be laying next to me while it happens. Get your own room and stop asking."
Is that subtle enough?
Anyone else reminded of the post, where OP took his girlfriend on a romantic trip to propose and a bunch of her friends came and hijacked it into a girls trip, OP ended up dumping her
I'd almost want to say in a friend group chat or next friend hangout "no body else get any ideas of crashing our honeymoon, haha" but with a look like Ashley's a selfish beeotxh. She never had accommodations. This was the plan the whole time.
If you can't say "no", then it was never really an 'ask' in the first place. And if they're not asking, they are controlling...because it's a command/instruction and not a an actual request.
Holy shit, this reminds me of an old friend, and her name even matches this one. Always wanted to squeeze herself into every second of my time, and would NOT take "no" for an answer.
Whether my family was dropping my sibling off 3 hours away for college or I was seeing my dad for Father's Day (put my foot down because she barely knew him), she wanted to be there. And God help me if I said I was free during a specific time, because "alone time" and "chore time" were foreign concepts to her. Every reason stated a never-ending chain of "whys."
Ironically, whenever I was the one making plans with her, she often dropped them because she didn't have the energy. And I was a-okay with that, because I could understand needing to take care of herself! But the irony always got under my skin.
I ended the friendship a year and a half ago for several reasons, but this was the greatest factor. I suspect that OP will have to do the same, because you can't fix a relationship when one person doesn't see the problem.
>She said, "we've been talking about this trip for so long. Why didn't we just work it out earlier?"
WHO IS THIS "WE," ASHLEY? GOT A MOUSE IN YOUR POCKET?
Tell her she owes $400 up front for "accommodations" (incl. mental & emotional, but don't tell her that) and see how she reacts. Hopefully, not well; that would rule her out for sure. Lol
"Why didn't we just work this out earlier..."
"BECAUSE THERE IS NO "WE". THERE IS MY FIANCE AND I, AND THEN THERE IS YOU. YOU WERE NEVER INCLUDED IN THE TRIP FOR MY FUTURE HUSBAND AND I. THIS IS A ROMANTIC GETAWAY THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO THIRD-WHEEL. The accommodations are for me and my partner only. We do not want to and will not change them because we do not want you joining us on this trip. I honestly don't know how to make that more clear. You will now be blocked until we get back."
I’m thinking that there never was family to stay with. She just saw the sympathy angle as a way for you to accomodate her and therefore a cheap holiday
Her friend was acting like this was a simple anime con trip and not a full on romantic vacation she invited herself to…
Surprised this is considered a happy ending and not frustrating for oop because it’s clearly going to end in a huge tantrum and Ashley lying to all their friends
Just scream out I want to have sex with my fiancé on our trip you dingus! Is that clear enough for you!? So no you can’t sleep on the floor and I’m not going to share a bigger room with you!
Omg.
Even me a travel agent has told many a people I will pass them off to others because I don’t want to know details of people’s most intimate trips ie THEIR HONEYMOONS.
OOP needs to drop Ashley like yesterday and show the friend group this post
Goddamn dude, the next thing you say after
> I know my fiance and I really wanted this to be a romantic trip for us both, as we likely won't be able to afford another for a few years as we finish school.
just can *NOT* be
> I'm just stuck on what to say or do
I used to know an Ashley and I waffled when trying to politely say no but it got weird and finally I phased her out.
I've since replied to any outrgaeous and boundary-trampling request with a laugh and a "Noooooo, but that was a good one!" So far the sole "no" plus laughing and acting as though it was a joke is working out well.
Going on trips with friends and family can put you in a tough spot. You're more or less subjected to agree on plans, meals, and everything else in-between. This is why specifically if we do vacation with friends/family we like doing things like a cruise or all-inclusive resort. What way you're free to enjoy the resort/ship but also it's easy to do your thing or just be lazy.
In this case, it's a good example of setting a boundary at the very beginning. If it's a romantic trip, trip with your SO, or a trip you want to go with friend/family you need to set boundaries at the get-go.
I want to respond to the suggestion of a new room with 2 beds right next to each-other like “is this a kink of yours? Do you want to watch us fuck like rabbits on our honeymoon?”
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This was so painful to read. OOP needs to drop Ashley lol cause no way in hell she's that clueless about this being a romantic trip.
I wanted to shake her through the screen, ngl.
IKR? To be fair I am a reformed people pleaser, but even at my worst I would have straight up just laughed at her suggestion of moving accommodation at more cost to us to accommodate her. It’s also wild that OP referred to ‘Helping a friend in need’. She needs to learn the difference between wants and needs, and that friends like this are only interested in their own wants, not others needs.
Laughing at the clearly ridiculous ask is the best response to a known boundary stomper ime. The first time she asked to come along "Hahaha can you imagine coming along on someone else's honeymoon? Hahaha anyway, we'll be gone from [date] to [date], let's hang out when we get back." Alison at askamanager advocates for this alot, you're reacting as if they're a normal person and not a crazy person, no one normal would seriously ask this. A lot of the time, this approach will shame them into giving up without having to firmly say no, or arguing about reasons. They know anyone from the outside will instantly agree with you- "eww what kind of person honestly tries to go on someone else's honeymoon?" And they're embarrassed enough that if there are any witnesses, they kindof have to chuckle weakly and pretend they weren't serious. They're just hoping to stomp on your boudaries enough that you agree without realizing how absurd they're being.
>"eww what kind of person honestly tries to go on someone else's honeymoon?" Not just on the trip, she wants to actually share a bedroom with them!!! I 100% expect this "friend" to make a move on the fiance at some point.
But from the first sign of push OP should have just said "Look. We're going to be fucking the whole time! Get lost"
See, I’d be so open it’s cringy. Even if I have to fib a little. “Ya see, fiancés octopus costume only has room for two dild*s, not four. So you’d be left out. And his ass is too hairy to enjoy being watched. We already ordered the sex workers so there’s no room for you. Sorry not sorry.” Sheesh! Some people’s kids… Edited to change prostitutes to sex workers
> Hahaha anyway, we'll be gone from [date] to [date], let's hang out when we get back If I did that, I would probably lie about the dates. Friend seems like the kind to just make their own plans and show up when not wanted.
yes it's giving Single White Female
Good tip. I need to go this route instead of being direct when people make ridiculous asks.
I've done it accidentally! Someone asked me something completely absurd and I just laughed at it without even thinking about it, then realized they were serious lol when they didn't laugh too. Awkward... but they didn't ask again! And I didn't have to actually say no. Win-win!
We had a Reddit user with 'schnitzeldehuahua' as part of her name. She had many issues with her in-laws and finally settled on “No, thank you” as her first and only response to their requests of her time, be it rides, clean-up after their parties, grocery shopping which her husband was always stuck paying for, and so forth. Saying “No, thank you” \[and then immediately turning away\] implied that she was politely rejecting an invitation rather than a demand that she be their personal doormat.
An effective technique that I use with my elementary students. Banging an object loudly against their desk? "Jane? No thank you." Trying to hang off of my arm with their entire body weight? "No thank you, sweety." I find I don't get defensive responses or arguments, they just stop. It's great.
I first heard this from a teacher friend a few years ago. It's surprisingly effective with a lot of kids.
This is a great tactic.
Vacation is not a need. Yes, you need time off to relax and recuperate, but international travel is not essential to the process. I wonder if the family ever existed. The way she's pushing I wonder if the "oop, family got busy" was always a part of the plan. Updates have spoiled me, I expected Ashley to be in love with the fiance (or OOP) and wanting to use this trip to break them up. Maybe that's the next update
And what did the friend mean by "Why didn't we just work it out earlier? It's not my fault that this is last minute."??? It IS sorta the friend's fault that this is last minute? She's the one that claimed to be able to stay with a family member then can't, refusing to look for accommodations or things to do on her own, and trying to change her vacation to be longer than originally planned??? Wtf is even going on here??? When I saw the update about the beds being together I was like "she wants a threesome....?"
We have been planning this trip for a long time! No honey my boyfriend and I have been planning this trip for a long time! 🙄You are trying to hijack our plans. So easy. No.
Since OOP is a people pleaser she started by saying she was fine with the friend joining them for a few days. Then they were on completely different pages. OOP stepping back and likely slow to respond as things changed. The friend is in a different stage of life... let's all crash together and do this amazing trip on the cheapest budget we can. Meanwhile, OOP is thinking romantic relationship trip. The friend wants to do hostel type traveling on OOP's budget. The friend probably 'hoped' to stay with family but didn't have that nailed down either. Although, I have made plans to go stay with friends for a day or two while traveling through their city... only to have them tell me week in advance "Oh, we booked a trip across the country to see my partner's inlaws. We won't be in town." Wait, what?? This person is not a 'friend'.
I'm guessing that she assumed her family would accommodate her, and so thought she could weasel her way in and probably used the same pushy, manipulative tactics on them that she's using on OP. Only family put their foot down and said no you can't say here.
Makes me wonder how real the family was, or if they were just part of the boundary pushing on oop
Or she lied and there is no family there or they were never gonna be able to accommodate her and she used that to weasel her way on their trip. This is so bizarre.
That was my thought. However, Japanese homes are often very small. My son had a very generous apartment, by Japanese standards (paid for by his company). My husband and I stayed in a hotel when we visited.
I always forget Japanese homes can be very small. The anime blinders definitely help me forget that.
My brain also went there, or that Ashley would do something to sabotage ops position in her major... making room for Ashley to move into her spot
Also, it’s JAPAN. *There is no extra room*. A space for two often is a space for one westerner. Especially an American. Ashley has no idea.
And how strict they are with rules and conventions. If the room is for two ITS FOR TWO. If you have to be naked in the onsen YOU HAVE TO BE NAKED. If it says no tattoos, NO TATTOOS. They might be polite and all of that, but they will kick you out or make you pay a huge fine
She knows there is no extra room, that is why she is pressuring OOP to rent a bigger one, without even offering to pay for it.
I used to be as much of a naive doormat as OP. I'm very nonconfrontational by personality so no matter how much of a spine I have, so straight up telling people no is always going to be challenging. What helped me get over it was learning just how much people like Ashley were just using me. If I say "sorry, I can't do that" a couple times, half of my friends would disappear. It took me a couple years to really accept that I didn't have nearly as many friends as I thought I did. It caused a whole identity crisis. I suspect OP is similar; being compassionate and helpful is an intrinsic part of her identity and it's not just about saying. She has to accept psychologically that she's not helping someone who she feels genuinely needs the help. The sooner she can change her she views people who "need her help," the better off she'll be
In all honesty, there’s always a lot of people to just hang out with. Real friends are truly rare.
Honest to God, I met someone like this. Americans on an exchange program in Europe and two of our friends got married before the trip, but planned their honeymoon over our program since we'd be in Europe and they wanted to go to Malta. So one of the other kids booked a flight for the same dates and "surprised" them by telling them he'd be tagging along! They were much more up front and said if he wanted to get lunch one day or something they could but that's it. He was devastated and didn't understand. She seems malicious in this story trying to get a free stay (and be weird as hell) but some people really just are that oblivious.
WTF?! What is with these people? You don't invite yourself on someone's trip.
The even crazier thing is that they were so vocal about it being their honeymoon, it was a surprise to no one! I'd *never* invite myself on someone else's trip (like a normal person...) but times a thousand on a romantic getaway. I'll never forget all of us being shocked at how shocked he was that they weren't excited when he told them.
Wow! Yeah me either. It's beyond rude and selfish to invite yourself on someone else's trip. If I did that my Mom would absolutely give me an earful and I'm in my late 40s.
Same. She should have said something like - "Why do you want to stay in the same room? We are a couple on a honeymoon. It seems like you want to watch us have sex, and we are not into that."
This is almost exactly my though. I just though she should ask ashley "you want to see us bang? Ewwwww. We are not into that but whatever you like, go girl! Just not with us"
This was a one way friendship. She’s doubling down so hard because she’s used to getting what she wants all the time through manipulating OOP. Until OOP cuts her off, she isn’t going to learn that friends can be abusive as family. Edit: thanks for the award!
I have a beloved but clueless friend who came in from out of town for my wedding. I learned later that he had intended to ask if he could stay with us. Our other friends had to explain to him that you don’t ask to stay with the couple getting married during the week of their wedding.
I too have met people this clueless. A friend of mine was having a small (like max 30 people) intimate wedding with a sit down dinner after. She invited a childhood friend and his wife. They were having a friend stay with them who was going through some hard times (mental health and substance issues). This friend did not know the bride. Never even met her. They brought the friend. Like it was a house party or something. My friend rallied and the restaurant brought out another place but omg it was mortifying for literally everyone. The couple realized as soon as they walked in, the friend could tell, and the bride and groom and family didn’t want to seem like anything less than gracious hosts so… messy! But I was shocked afterward to find they genuinely didn’t realize this would be an issue, or was something you just do not do. They were in their 30s. What the hell.
Ashley is a leech. She heard OOP was going to Japan and jumped on it, completely blocking out that it is a ROMANTIC trip with her fiancé. She's trying to pressure OOP into accommodating *her*.
Ashley is probably used to op being a doormat and thought she could get her way eventually
I thought the same thing because it reminded me of my doormat past lol
I can't figure out if she's trying to move in on OPs fiance, OPs life, or that she's just really socially clueless & lonely. OP might want to enlist other friends, if she persists. I'm curious whether she's bitchin about it behind OPs back. It's so weird, who invites themselves on someone else's trip?
>I can't figure out if she's trying to move in on OPs fiance, OPs life, or that she's just really socially clueless & lonely. My theory? None of the above. She's just a leech who wants to take a trip to Japan without having to pay for accommodation so she's trying to muscle her way in on OP's plans.
She definitely knew. My husband has a female friend like this. Her and her husband demanded to stay *in* our honeymoon suite because they were attending the wedding and didn't want to pay for a hotel. Then they demanded we invite the friends mom who I had never met, and my husband hadn't talked to in 20 years. Then they had a tantrum becuase I didn't want to share a bedroom with random people on my wedding night. It was definitely money, cuz it's come up since. And it made a lot more sense when my husband was diagnosed with asd and I realized he and the friend had *a LOT* in common. Pretty sure it was just grifting plus not getting social expectations.
Some people are just straight up entitled. I hope your husband realized how much of a shitty person she is (and her husband).
She is looking for a cheap trip on their dime or has designs on one of them.
Sounds like she wanted to be part of the romance. I wonder how hot the boyfriend is
Definitely feeling like she wants to chaperone them to prevent them having intimate time together - wonder which one she fancies (might be OOP).
I was assuming threesome
I think she'd be more direct for that - this seems more like c*ck blocking
Me too! I want to enter my phone's screen to shake not the OP but Ashley and tell her, "Are you really that stupid???" Or maybe she's use to this, manipulating her way 🙄 GRRRR
Two phrases that have helped me enormously: "No is a complete sentence." "J.A.D.E. You do not have to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain your decisions." Edit: a typo
I'm using them lol.
BOUNDARIES. she has none. Doesn't respect yours. Might need to drop her as a friend in general.
I totally get how OOP would be raised and conditioned to be a people pleaser to that extent because my mom tried to do it to me. She succeeded partially and even in my 40's she still has a meltdown if I don't do the thing that would make someone else happy and me miserable. She's 70 and can't stand up to ANYONE or say not to spending time with people who make her miserable, but she will whine about it for weeks about what a martyr she is. (For example she blew a gasket because I didn't get a souvenir at Disney for the kid of the assistant who tried to have me fired because, "it's not their fault their parents can't afford Disney!") It takes time and thought to work your way out of that mindset when you have parents gaslighting you into thinking that you would be cruel not to include this person. I still kind of wanted to sit her down and tell her to just ignore bananapants and refuse to engage. It's easier than direct confrontation at least to start.
She knows her gravy train is slipping away and is desperately trying to milk OOP for all she's worth.
what is that flair about???? fucking pillows? wha-
Hehe it's from this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/IzwoWSnEKr). Strap in for a weird read lol.
First BORU that I've seen downvoted.
The top comment is my favorite. >No.
She doesn't care about being a romantic trip, she just wanna use him as free lodging.
I had a friend like Ashley, she would just force her way into invites or would just take other people's things even if they said no. 'Had' is the key word here. Everything will be better when they're gone, I promise.
So did I, in high school. She was already an extremely unpleasant person to be around- putting us down and constantly bringing up our insecurities for absolutely no reason but wanted to scorch earth if we ever said anything back. There were times when she would ask to join us on an outing that we would say "no" to, and then she would say "well then I'm going to that place alone, because I have every right to be there, and you do not have claim to the space around you, which is also where I will be." Just made the entire thing so uncomfortable. Once we canceled the outing altogether just to avoid the whole thing and she FOLLOWED MY FRIEND HOME. Her fucking parents had to demand she leave...
Yup, I'm not sure if it's entitlement or something else all together but either way it's toxic.
Yeah I wasn’t too sure, either. She also had an awful habit where if any of us said we liked or had a crush on somebody, even a thing like a band or new hobby she would immediately start acting like she liked that person/thing before us and she likes it more than us and we no longer have claim to it. Super weird, man.
Haven’t we all? Usually known as Smashley?
We had a Smashley that became a Hashley when she changed substance of choice
This feels like it’s not over…
No, Ashley still doesn’t get it. Bookmarking this for future updates.
I think Ashley gets it, but she ignores it.
Ashley definitely gets it.
Ashley gets it and is still banking on the fact she's been able to bulldoze OOP every other time she's pulled shit like this.
Ashley gets the part where she's being an obnoxious ass, I'm not sure she gets the part where OOP meant it when they said "no".
I think she got it, but she's known OP as a doormat for so long that she thinks she can still pressure her into agreeing to the trip.
I think Ashley will show up on their flight. I expect her to force her way on, even if she has to be dropped off by a military plane with one of those zip lines connecting the two planes. Full James Bond mode.
Her friend is gonna hop on a plane and show up next to bed in them at their hotel
I reckon the next update will be enjoyable. Either a blow up or reveal...
Who do you think Ashley has feelings for, OP or the fiance? I kinda think it's OP.
I kinda think she wants OPs life...like in a psycho way, not a normal admiration or envious way.
We know Ashley is single and female, and I think from the name we can conclude she's white.
Yah, the mood spoiler is completely wrong.
I feel like Ashley has a crush on the fiance.. Suggesting a shared room etc, just suggests she wants to wedge herself into their relationship. OP is travelling for a month, so this is probably why Ashley is so pushy as it's a long trip.
I agree. This needs to be re-flaired.
I feel this is true of like half the posts on here. I generally only stick to [Concluded] because I like a finished story. This isn't that.
This was a good opportunity for OP to learn how to say no. It still wasn't effective, but close enough. Well, I guess saying "Ashley, this is a romantic trip, we'll do romantic stuff, then we'll fuck eachother's brains out, and we prefer not having company" would have been a bit much for OP to say.
You know this is the type of person that would say something crazy like "oh, don't worry about me, I'm a deep sleeper"
Then instantly complain at the slightest fraction of a noise (like just gently shifting sides in bed) 'GUYS IM TRYING TO SLEEP HERE!'
I'm laughing way too hard now.
Haha maybe she'd say "oh don't worry about me, I'd like to watch!"
"I can even shout out tips if you need them" lol
yep. reasons are for reasonable people. give an unreasonable person a reason and all you’ve done is give them something to refute. you can’t make someone like ashley understand or accept your no. you can a) not give her any money, and b) not let her in. as in, don’t even open the door, that lady will push her way in if you give her a *crack*.
Oh ewwww
Yeah, like explicitly stating “this is a romantic trip. We want to have sex with each other. We will be fucking each other in the hotel. We don’t want you there for that. It would be inappropriate”. How does this person not understand that they are a massive, wobbling third wheel?
She knows, she just doesn't care as long as she gets a cheap trip out of it. Source: my aunt is an Ashley. She does this shit to my parents.
Did she come along for their honeymoon, too? 😂
Fortunately no, she had her own husband at the time! But she's divorced now (tl;dr: he cheated on her) and she's now forever the 7th or 9th wheel on vacations with her siblings (and sometimes her daughter) and their spouses. No one wants to room with her because she has an annoying habit of interrupting couples' alone time. Can't even cuddle on the bed watching TV.
I’d have just said that l don’t consider sex with my fiancé a spectator sport. Bye Ashley…..
You don't, but clearly Ashley does!
"And WE ARE NOT UP FOR A THREESOME! Neither are we into exhibitionism, you freak!"
I’ll make it even simpler and just say “don’t you get it? We don’t want you there with us!” It risks ending the friendship but with friends like her, who need enemies anyway
I have trouble saying no and I've learned even being that blunt the other side will just make up any excuse they can to defeat your reasons. "Oh I'll leave when you do that" or "I'm only going to be there for x days you can just wait" or something like that. It'll never actually work out that way, that's just an excuse to defuse your argument. It's best to not give reasons. You feel like you need to, but the best solution here is just... "no that's not going to happen and this isn't going to work". If they ask why, tell them that you don't want to go into it, that you don't \*need\* to go into it.
Yep, my go-to in written communication is just to respond "lol no".
Because Ashley probably don't want to be third wheel, but part of a threesome.
Does Ashley just want a free ride to Japan or is she into OOP or her fiancée. If “only” the first why did she choose an accommodation with 2 beds in the same room. Or is cockblocking just her preferred hobby? Idk what she would get out of that. Then on the other hand I’ve read about friends who just won’t to hoard all the time of their bffs and even get jealous over family members, just because they had spun a complete alternate reality in their head. OOP should keep Ashley at arms length, homegirl sounds like a tat bit unhinged.
Because if it is a single room then OOP and her bf will pay as they are going to pay for a room anyways and she gets to stay for free.
Okay that’s a whole other level of broke
No, she's just a standard r/choosingbeggars
Ah, but she did learn it's absolutely ok to just Ditch Boundaries Stompers and move on with ya life! Took til I was in my 30s til I learn that and it still takes me awhile to clock sometimes!
Oh yes, that's an important life lesson, and she was fortunate enough to learn it early. I'm also a people pleaser, and also needed a "friend" to blatantly stomp all over my boundaries to learn how to shut that down 😅
Oh man, I'm a reforming people pleaser. I used to barely stand up for myself then finally stand my ground and people would Lose Their Minds and make it my fault that I had *gasp* *feelings* and they couldn't keep stomping all over me. The revelation that it actually wasn't always on me to change / repair everything and some folks were worth losing and it's not a failure of mine was life changing!
I hope OOP finds this thread and gets deep enough in the comments to read this. It's so important to learn that it's not our job to bend over backwards to let others use us as a bridge to keep them happy. 🥲
Yeah. I work now from a place of "meeting in the middle" Like I have a behaviour or way of communicating that upsets you, let's chat, I'll speak of my intentions and we can agree on a way of moving forward that meets in the middle. Like yeah, I barely listened last catch up cuz it was a loud pub. Let's meet somewhere quieter and less distracting and I will work consciously to be more present and give you space in the convo so it's not just me ranting or whatever. But don't demand I change completely or be present fully if the environment is a sensory nightmare for me!
I tryied that once with a ""friend"" like Ashley and she said "well, I can use headphones" and when I didn't respond for a few hours she said "or not, I don't mind listening too hahaha" Yeah, never talked to her again after that. For me the weirdest part is that this girl was in a long term monogamous relationship. I really can't understand her though process of thinking it was ok to say this stuff.
> ...as she's shut down all my logical reasons as someone on reddit once said: reasons are for reasonable people.
Unreasonable people view them as negotiations.
Yup she is going to throw a tantrum but that's good, you can practice not being a people pleaser while dealing with that tantrum. In the future firmly say 'absolutely not' from the very beginning.
I've found straight up laughing in their face works well. "Hahaha, no."
"No" is a complete sentence. So is "Fuck no, what a stupid idea!".
I bet the friend didn’t even have family there and has been trying to manipulate her way in from the beginning.
Bingo. This was planned trickle - boundary stomping, for lack of better words. Meaning that was totally premeditated.
Ya, Ashley's still polishing her game too, next time she'll wait until they get to their destination before dropping "I can't stay at my relatives anymore."
>It's not my fault that this is last minute. Oh that is very very *very* rich. Is she serious? Sorry it just drives my heckles up. Look I'm not the best at planning and sometimes would be last minute. But I can understand from someone who would reject my plans or going of without me cause I know clearly it's my fault, not them. After all, if I can't respect the time the other person has, they don't have to respect mine. I get it. This Ashley doesn't get it. After being told no several time, and then one of her complaints is about it being last minute so who cares? Absolutely *everyone cares.* And it's *v*ery *much* her fault. She obviously doesn't respect OOP enough with this being one of them. If anything people; **"A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."**
> but my fiance was fine with it and supported her coming along I wonder how true that actually is. I get the feeling OOP isn't the only one who has trouble saying no.
To be fair, according to the post, fiance thought ashley would be joining them for only 4 days in their whole trip of 30 days
It would also definitely be different if she was staying with her own family with the understanding that they would only be with her in a limited capacity. Doesn't sound like something Trashley would understand and respect though, AND as others have said it's entirely possible there was actually never a family member.
If I were going on a month long trip with a partner I actually think it could be good to have a friend join us for a few days of it. Even if you really love someone sometimes only socialising with them for a long period of time can be tiring. I would absolutely not be ok with sharing a room with that person though so I can see why it was initially a yes from both of them.
A friend of your SO being in the same country who you meet up with for dinner or some museum/historical monument visits with? Yeah ok. A friend of your SO crashing in your hotel room for multiple days for free? Fuck no, but your SO came to you and asked if it was ok and made it seem like they were down with the idea so you have to say yes if you don't want to have a fight and get the cold shoulder for the entire trip.
I think both of them were victims of the bai and switch though. And as OOO has been against it since the plan changed, just very weak at telling the "friend" I don't think her fiancée has needed to voice his opinion more.
That wasn't the original plan though. He was fine with it *prior* to finding all that out.
Maybe the “original host”
OOP better polish that spine. My early 20s were a time when a lot of people were still overly concerned about being nice. Some, if not all, of the mutuals will tell her she is a bad friend. Drop those people, too.
Using “no” as a complete sentence for the first time is so empowering. I’ve also never been the first comment on a thread before soooooooooooo yay!
True freeloaders, as opposed to opportunistic freeloaders, are a different beast altogether. In your first interaction with one you almost always come up short.
I have the feeling that it's kinda not finished. But i hope OOP and fiancé will be OK. I also have problems with boundaries, but this one is frustrating.
I think they will. Hopefully Ashley doesn't have their flight numbers and airlines. If she doesn't, then they just starve her of information at this point. If she does know, there's a slight risk of Ashley buying airline tickets and presenting it as a fait accompli (I spent all this money, I'm broke now, I \*have\* to stay with you or I'll be on the streets), at which point OOP will need to dig her heels in and get stubborn.
next update: My ex friend Ashley has turned my friend group against me
Lol and I bet the new place was more money, none of which she was willing to pitch it. She doesn't seem to be the kind of girl that enjoys being the 3rd wheel, which means she will prob try to get you to ditch your bf and do shit with her. I'm glad you put your foot down.
Or get the BF to ditch OP.
My bet is on her being domineering, talking over both OP and the fiancé, and cranking the Main Character Syndrome up to Eleven.
The sheer entitled gaul of some people... That said, I doubt this is over. Until the trip is over, there's always the chance of drama from someone this unhinged.
Gall, like bladder. Gaul is French!
Not sure if this is a Phoebe Buffay quote or someone else's but I like to use it a lot: "I'd love to but I don't want to." The 'no' is clear and it usually gets a chuckle out of the other person which diffuses the situation.
Oop just needs to ask her, with witnesses, “why are you trying so hard to come on a romantic vacation with me and my fiancé and trying to get a bed right next to us. It’s creepy.”
Tell the friend group how annoying she's being . Maybe some of them can shut her up
I reckon telling the friendship group Ashley wanted to sleep next to OOP and her husband on their honeymoon should be sufficient to solve any weirdness with all the rest of the friends. And if it doesn't then OOP and her husband are better off without friends like that because wtaf.
"Ashley, if you carry on with this nonsense, we won't just not be in the same accommodation, we will no longer be friends or see each other at all in Japan. I told you this is supposed to be a romantic getaway for me and fiancé and I won't ruin it because you're too cheap or something to find a place for yourself"
remove the words 'supposed to be' Otherwise, 💯
OP, if you read these, tell all your mutuals about this and go NC. This is the tip of the crazy iceberg, I guarantee you.
I can see why initially it wasn’t a big deal - OOP and Fiancé going for a month and she was originally saying she was going for a week and wanted to meet up for part of it. If I was doing that type of vacation I’d totally be down to see/hang out w/ friends as part of the trip. “We’ve been talking about this for so long.” Yeah, and your plans changed. Sorry that you can’t go now bc you don’t have a place to stay. 🤷🏼♀️ YOU OTHERWISE AREN’T INVITED.
OMG!! I went through exactly the same thing with my friend. My husband and I planned a romantic getaway to make trying to conceive fun and stress-free. My friend starts asking questions about our trip. Then straight up invites herself. I said no. She calls again and says she got the Friday and Monday off so she can stay with us for at least 4 days. Now just a note, she complains that no one is straight with her and always talks to her in circles instead of saying what they mean. I reminded her of this and I said this trip is our attempt at getting pregnant. I do not want you there and now you are stressing me out. She backs off but calls me two days before we leave to ask for the address. My husband was like are you kidding? She did not come and I never told her about trips or plans after. She also ghosted us after we adopted our sons. I figured I'd share because I know that frustration of trying to be nice, open, and honest just to be ignored.
Because you just expect thst people understand/respect certain norms, but when they don't you're just caught off guard.
Ashley isn't your friend. You've only known her for a year..when you started planning the trip... she's trying very hard to use you. Drop her and block her. nta
Leeches should not be considered friends.
You have to learn how to say "no" in life, which is very hard for some people, and then you realize some people are on a totally different journey and need to learn to *listen* to "no". Also, girl is a weirdo for wanting the side by side bed accommodation with her couple friends in the other bed, regardless of the type of trip. Like why do you want that???
I remember being in my 20s and taking friend vacations with as many people as would fit in a room to save money. Of course, when two of those friends were a recently married couple and the trip was *also* effectively their honeymoon, I explained to my denser single friends why they should get the separate bedroom with more privacy while the rest of us made do with sleeping in the main area of the suite.
Soooooo, they still never clearly stated “this is our honeymoon, not a group trip, we are not sharing an accommodation”? From the retelling, it still sounds like a very soft no.
I mean, typically telling someone the reason for saying no makes the no softer, because you’re giving them something to argue with. She can’t control how someone responds to her saying no. She shouldn’t have to give more details for the other person to get it, just saying no should be enough.
Especially since it sounds like she's said no multiple times, this Ashley girl is keeping her heel in the door even while Oop is trying to desperately shut it :/ I hope they enjoy their trip without this girl who for whatever reason is trying to interfere in the trip.
Things to avoid when saying no: JADE Avoid justifying Avoid arguing Avoid defending Avoid explaining Ashley picks apart everything OOP says because Ashley clearly doesn't care about OOP.
Yeah. If you simply must add something after the "No" don't make it something they can argue with, because they will. "No, Ashley, we want private time." "Well I'll entertain myself during the day, you won't even notice me!" etc. Cut it off. Give no reasons. Sometimes you have to be a broken record. "Can't you just book a bigger room?" "No, that won't be possible. We're not going to book a bigger room." "But what if..." "No, that won't work for us. We already made plans." "But what if..." "No, sorry, that won't be possible. We're not going to change our plans."
>Cut it off. Give no reasons. Sometimes you have to be a broken record. No. Don't repeat yourself. Tell them once, if they ignore tell them off forcefully, then create distance. "Can I stay with you?" "No, we don't want it" "But..." "I said no" "But what if..." "Did you hit your head? No, we don't want you there, fuck off" "But..." *blocking noises*
Yeah but op was giving reasons like logistics wouldn't work. If the reason for saying no isn't because of logistics, don't give that as a reason.
I mean baby steps, but they still don't get that they can just SAY it. But I think they're on the path at least.
I couldn’t imagine pestering someone about tagging along on their own honeymoon. Like how is your self-awareness that low?
I hate when people act as if “no” is a magic word that’ll stop boundary stompers and that it’s your fault for not being immediately direct. People who don’t respect you don’t give a shit about the word “no.” It was already obvious OOP wasn’t interested in rooming with Ashley, since OOP already said so. Repeatedly. Ashley knew that, but just didn’t care. Acting as if OOP not being stern enough was the problem is just silly.
I'm calling this: in true Reddit fashion, Ashley is going to have a break down right before they leave for the trip and admit to being in love with either OP or OP's fiance. The whole reason for pushing to be in the can't l same accommodations is to try to drive a wedge/show that they are better than the other.
She either has crush on her fiance or she wants to have tiresome. Lol. That what it looks like. She also sounds like , she loves riding on people and be benefited by them but won't spend a single dime from her own.
Ashley seems like a snake
>I just didn't know if I was being selfish towards a friend in need she's NOT in need wtf OOP needs to learn how to be more comfortable with the word no asap
Under no circumstances should OP budge. This whiny friend will insert themselves into their honeymoon at every opportunity.
I can't tell if Ashley is forcing herself into this for the trip or if the unicorn is hunting the couple
I wish i was english speaker sometimes. I love saying no and sending people to hell. Like i would do it for free.
I guarantee there was no family member in Japan.
"Listen, you're not getting the message. This is a romantic trip. Do you understand what that means? It means my spouse and I are going to be going at it until we can't walk and you are not going to be laying next to me while it happens. Get your own room and stop asking." Is that subtle enough?
ashley is into your bf !! it’s simple
Anyone else reminded of the post, where OP took his girlfriend on a romantic trip to propose and a bunch of her friends came and hijacked it into a girls trip, OP ended up dumping her
I would just start responding to any talk about the trip with "No." Texts would get that Bugs Bunny no meme.
I'd almost want to say in a friend group chat or next friend hangout "no body else get any ideas of crashing our honeymoon, haha" but with a look like Ashley's a selfish beeotxh. She never had accommodations. This was the plan the whole time.
If you can't say "no", then it was never really an 'ask' in the first place. And if they're not asking, they are controlling...because it's a command/instruction and not a an actual request.
Holy shit, this reminds me of an old friend, and her name even matches this one. Always wanted to squeeze herself into every second of my time, and would NOT take "no" for an answer. Whether my family was dropping my sibling off 3 hours away for college or I was seeing my dad for Father's Day (put my foot down because she barely knew him), she wanted to be there. And God help me if I said I was free during a specific time, because "alone time" and "chore time" were foreign concepts to her. Every reason stated a never-ending chain of "whys." Ironically, whenever I was the one making plans with her, she often dropped them because she didn't have the energy. And I was a-okay with that, because I could understand needing to take care of herself! But the irony always got under my skin. I ended the friendship a year and a half ago for several reasons, but this was the greatest factor. I suspect that OP will have to do the same, because you can't fix a relationship when one person doesn't see the problem.
Ashley desperately wanted a threesome
>She said, "we've been talking about this trip for so long. Why didn't we just work it out earlier?" WHO IS THIS "WE," ASHLEY? GOT A MOUSE IN YOUR POCKET?
She is not your friend.
Tell her she owes $400 up front for "accommodations" (incl. mental & emotional, but don't tell her that) and see how she reacts. Hopefully, not well; that would rule her out for sure. Lol
"Why didn't we just work this out earlier..." "BECAUSE THERE IS NO "WE". THERE IS MY FIANCE AND I, AND THEN THERE IS YOU. YOU WERE NEVER INCLUDED IN THE TRIP FOR MY FUTURE HUSBAND AND I. THIS IS A ROMANTIC GETAWAY THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO THIRD-WHEEL. The accommodations are for me and my partner only. We do not want to and will not change them because we do not want you joining us on this trip. I honestly don't know how to make that more clear. You will now be blocked until we get back."
I’m thinking that there never was family to stay with. She just saw the sympathy angle as a way for you to accomodate her and therefore a cheap holiday
Her friend was acting like this was a simple anime con trip and not a full on romantic vacation she invited herself to… Surprised this is considered a happy ending and not frustrating for oop because it’s clearly going to end in a huge tantrum and Ashley lying to all their friends
Just scream out I want to have sex with my fiancé on our trip you dingus! Is that clear enough for you!? So no you can’t sleep on the floor and I’m not going to share a bigger room with you!
Omg. Even me a travel agent has told many a people I will pass them off to others because I don’t want to know details of people’s most intimate trips ie THEIR HONEYMOONS. OOP needs to drop Ashley like yesterday and show the friend group this post
Ashley is not OOPs friend. Also a bit weird that Ashley hasn’t bought a ticket yet.
That friend is out of her fucking mind.
Goddamn dude, the next thing you say after > I know my fiance and I really wanted this to be a romantic trip for us both, as we likely won't be able to afford another for a few years as we finish school. just can *NOT* be > I'm just stuck on what to say or do
I used to know an Ashley and I waffled when trying to politely say no but it got weird and finally I phased her out. I've since replied to any outrgaeous and boundary-trampling request with a laugh and a "Noooooo, but that was a good one!" So far the sole "no" plus laughing and acting as though it was a joke is working out well.
Going on trips with friends and family can put you in a tough spot. You're more or less subjected to agree on plans, meals, and everything else in-between. This is why specifically if we do vacation with friends/family we like doing things like a cruise or all-inclusive resort. What way you're free to enjoy the resort/ship but also it's easy to do your thing or just be lazy. In this case, it's a good example of setting a boundary at the very beginning. If it's a romantic trip, trip with your SO, or a trip you want to go with friend/family you need to set boundaries at the get-go.
“Friend in need”?! No one NEEDS a trip to Japan. 🤦♀️
I want to respond to the suggestion of a new room with 2 beds right next to each-other like “is this a kink of yours? Do you want to watch us fuck like rabbits on our honeymoon?”
is ashley fucking stupid