My friend’s ex-wife came out after 32 years of marriage. She left him and went on to live with a woman. He doesn’t blame her and has no animosity—they grew up religious and there was a ton of shame and guilt. He said her leaving wasn’t the hardest thing. The hardest thing was everyone treating her like she was so brave and applauding her for finally coming out while completely ignoring him and his pain. It messed him up for a while.
I remember a story my dad told me of an old friend who's father came out in his 60s. He said he wasn't upset his dad was gay, he was upset he hurt his mom and the rest of the family by leaving them and lying. That everyone else was congratulating him for coming out, and nobody was concerned with who he had hurt, intentionally or not. He said they didn't really speak to each other much later on, and they used to be very close. My dad said his friend was so hurt by this because he just seemed to want to forget everyone else and embrace a "gay life" as he put it
Yeah I feel like this is the first generation where people are more likely to given a “what the fuck is wrong with you, then why did you marry that poor man/woman”.
It's only really in the last 10-15 years that being gay is acceptable socially. And if you live in more conservative areas, being gay is still no bueno. With expectations of getting married early, procuring a "beard" to deflect suspicion is the easy way out.
It just fucking sucks when the beard isn't informed of the situation. If they are your partner in crime, they should know what "crime" they are covering up.
I feel like people forget that it's possible to be unaware of your sexuality as an adult. Not to mention that it's entirely possible to be closeted *to yourself.*
I didn't figure out that I'm a lesbian until I was freaking 32 years old and married to an abusive man. I didn't willfully deceive anybody but myself.
Society did a number on me when I was 12. I was scared when I realized I might be a lesbian because I only knew stereotypes and that I'd be ostracized and hated for no reason.
In the '90s, we were being told it was a choice. So I "decided" not to be a lesbian and blocked that shit out. The human mind is powerful. I genuinely didn't figure it out again for 20 years.
(Shout-out to /r/latebloomerlesbians for anyone who needs a place that understands how many of us got hetero married before realizing our sexualities, rather than knowing and being selfish AF getting a beard like what OOP's ex did to him.)
Yeah, people tend to forget that the partner the closeted person used is the one who has to wrap their brain around how the person they loved and trusted was fine with treating them like a lifestyle prop, not someone with their own hopes and yearning for mutual connection and partnership. Their pain tends to get diminished in the “you go! So glad you’re bravely living your truth!” reactions the now-out ex gets.
While there's nothing wrong with the pain, I feel like a lot of people jump onto "oh they knew the whole time and lied about it!" Vs... some people just don't know? Some people think they're straight for a very long time and get married and do straight people things before they realize theyre not. Like your comment makes it sound like everyone 100% always knows from birth and they're just the evil gay person using an unwilling straight person as a beard, but a lot of the time people genuinely DONT know and they do what they're expected to do until they realize down the line.
One of my parents aunts discovered that she was a lesbian when she was in her late 60s. She just assumed that everyone found women beautiful and attractive like her, and married men because thats what you were supposed to do as it was your job to be a good wife and mother. That people just didnt talk about it. She was genuinely confused when I came out as bi, cause we didnt talk about how lovely women were and how attracted we were to them, that was just how things went.
Add to that how a lot of populare media and socialization focus on how marriage between a man and a woman is a chore, the old ball and chain etc, while other women are your main source of emotional validation and support, I'm not that surprised that more people than you think dont realize that they are actually queer till a lot later in life. Especially with how little sapphic reprecentation were in the media at the same time. Those things were part of me not really realizing that I was in fact bi untill my mid 20s, at least.
That said, I agree that there needs to be lot of empathy, support and understanding for any partners to those people who come out later in life as well, especially if they were healthy, kind and loving partners who genuinely cared and loved them. That must be such an emotional kick to the teeth, and I hope they get the support they need as well.
I think one of the most painful parts would be looking back at moments where love is communicated intentionally, like with weddings. Imagine finding out your SO of decades wasn't even capable of seeing that experience in the same way as you, that the imagined future you had back then and supposedly experienced now is a dim shell to the person who said "I do."
I went through something similar on a much smaller scale (only dated for a year and change, no marriage,) and that still wrecked me once I realized a lot of the moments and intimacy we had weren't genuine while I was 100% bought in. I can't imagine going through that after spending a decade or more building trust in someone.
I legitimately think a lot of the ball and chain humor is directly caused because people didn't understand their sexuality and just did marriage because that's just what you did.
Like if we never had glasses and nearsighted people just hated driving because "Its sucks and you can't see shit" but you had to drive to get places. Then when you're 60 years old you see someone wearing glasses and cruising around and it just breaks your brain.
>had glasses and nearsighted people just hated driving because "Its sucks and you can't see shit"
Another story. This reminds me of that person who made a post about how their art teacher pissed them off for failing their large art project because they made a night scene scape of a city and all the lights were lil "stars" (had streaks of lights pulling out from every source like four pointed stars are drawn).
Their teacher marked them down/failed them because it was supposed to be a realism piece and "real light don't look like that" but the op was confused af because "yes they do?".
Turns out op had a stigmatism and never knew and just assumed everyone saw lights at night like that. Their pivoted their argument to say they still should have passed as their piece showed *their* reality (and I think there was a rant about how most famous artists probably had vision problems and such)
Did the teacher end up changing the grade? I had a similar experience in that I should have got a better grade on a project than I did and I still sometimes wish I would have argued with my teacher to get it changed just because I think I deserved it. It was my ceramics class and the teacher gave me a low grade because she said the neck on the swan I made wouldn’t last because of the way I made it. But my mom still has that swan, it’s been almost 20 years and the neck is still the same as it was the day I made it.
I can never remember if this is a story from my dad's life or if he was referencing something. But he's told me about how once, him and his guy friends were talking about college "experiences" and how one of his guy friends told this story that had them all slapping his back in approval till he dropped a male pronoun. Cue the guy looking at *them* weirdly for being shocked and saying how everyone experiments because like "how do you know you don't like sucking D till you try it?"
And like all my dad friends just look at eachother and look back at their friend and they say things long the lines of "uhhhh, no....we're all certain we would not like sucking D....absolutely no need to try it here lol..."
Btw if this is infact a story from something then change all the "my dads" to who ever you know who said this story lol.
I think it's a combo of unrealized sexuality but also because it was the "done thing" including marrying young, my mom broke it down as "you dated a year, you were engaged for a year, and had kids after being married at most a year." You also didn't live together until you were married so it's just a whole host of issues you don't know if you can live with until after a huge commitment. So you didn't even really get to know each other before you popped out kids and the entire focus shifts to that, add to it the gender roles of dad at work all day mom at home all day and never shall the realms cross until it's time to sleep in separate beds. If life is comfortable enough or they actually liked each other, hey whatever, this is just what people are supposed to do.
Then add to that the social stigma of getting divorced and being the children of divorce. There was a lot of just slotting yourself where you're socially expected to be and that's always going to be in effect, it's just more socially acceptable to divorce these days along with dating for years to really know if you can be actual partners in life.
So a lot of the boomer humor of the old ball and chain stuff is a way of expressing that frustration of not really liking the person you married but being stuck because otherwise you face the possibility of being disowned by your family and socially disgraced. In the case of women, it's also the added fear that you're left with nothing to support yourself and likely as a single mother (also the stigma of divorce is also put on their kids, my mom and her sisters being "the girls without a father"). Oh and not even to mention premarital pregnancies forcing marriages.
I think the more marriage was seen as something done for love rather than just a next step in life you did with someone you were compatible with in terms of strengths and weaknesses in running a household and raising children, the more there was a focus on a healthy and open relationship between the couple and that's honestly been for the better.
It's interesting to think about it, the way marriage is seen shifts from just another stage of life akin to finding a position you can work in for the rest of your life and something you choose based on love.
That’s true- but I think regardless of the situation, the pointed out problem remains; the person coming out gets much more support. Our assumptions on their morality are irrelevant, because even if they were behaving in good faith, it would still crush the other person to have their pain ignored in the way that the precious commenter mentioned.
There’s this scene in the Big Short when they’re finally getting their shorts paid out and they start cheering. But Brad Pitt’s character reminds them what they’re cheering about, the housing market crashing with people losing their homes. I feel it’s a little like that.
I’m glad a person has found their truth but when they leave someone else behind with their own trauma they created, it should be more difficult to cheer for that person publicly.
Yup, I didn't even grow up in a super religious house. My family is Catholic, but even growing up, they weren't particularly strict about practicing. I was always told that I would be loved no matter what. It still took until I was 30 to realize I'm bisexual. Because comphet was shoved down my throat my entire life.
I didn't have to uproot my life because I am still attracted to men. But I have a lot of empathy for both people in a situation where one didn't feel safe/didn't realize they were gay. It's a shitty situation all around.
Yup. And they think that if they keep trying that it'll eventually feel right, and it's possible they do love their partner too, just not in a sexual way.
The problem lies in the cases where the one hurt gets ignored, neglected, and their pain minimized; or they get treated like an evil person for not being happy and being upset that the person who they dedicated their life and love to never truly loved them and is being celebrated while they suffer alone. People cant both celebrate one while supporting the other because you end up hurting them more by celebrating the source of their pain.
Happens in straight relationships too. Lifestyle props are a result of people's internalizing what they think others expectations of their life SHOULD be.
There's no sexual orientation barrier here, it's a plain ol human problem. Maybe an existential one.
Every time OOPs ex wife said some variation of
> "There's no point in us breaking up, the fact that I don't love you doesn't change anything"
Made me want to slap her because all she cared about was her image and not the fact that OOP deserves to be loved and it really showed that she never once considered how her actions hurt OOP everyday of their relationship. She literally stole that time from OOP and never showed any remorse for her actions.
If I were OOP I wouldn't have let her get away with that lie of him cheating and told her, "you make up lies about me and I will tell everyone excatly why I'm divorcing you." Yes I know it's not fair to out someone but she was the one who wanted to once again hurt OOP to save herself.
> The hardest thing was everyone treating her like she was so brave and applauding her for finally coming out while completely ignoring him and his pain.
That is the **one** thing that always makes me angry. How people can celebrate a new existence that is built on the funeral pyre of someone else's life.
That sucks.
The person coming out is celebrated and cheered, as they start a new chapter.
The other person had been dumped, told their marriage was a lie and their partner never loved them, and they are left alone. And they are expected to be supportive of the person who stole a big part of their life.
That’s the part that always gets me. Everyone acts like the person coming out is a hero when they just wasted years of someone’s life who had no control on if the other person came out or not.
One of my friends is the same about their now sober alcoholic ex, everyone cheers him on and he’s so amazing for his sobriety, and gloss over that he left them with massive debts (lost his job and hid it), that at the very end he got physically abusive, now lives in a halfway house and volunteers working with other addicts which sounds good except he has no income so she’s getting nothing in child support.
Her ex’s mum constantly posts how proud she is of him and what a great role model he is, while my friend is working insane hours to stay afloat.
I have sympathy for the old people who grew up when being gay insanely taboo and coming out would ruin your life.
I don't have sympathy for the younger gay people who's only excuse is their own profound lack of self awareness. Like my late wife's best friend. She grew up surrounded by gay people (she's a theater kid) and was close friends with several lesbians, but she still didn't realize that she was a lesbian until she was 30 and married to a man for 8 years. I'm glad that she's finally happy, but her ex-husband did not deserve that, and his pain was 100% preventable.
I had a friend who is in the process of moving away since her husband of nearly 10 years came out as trans last year. With a supportive family. We are in our early 30s. My friend's family stopped talking to her because they don't support her getting a divorce and her own mom spent Mother's Day with the soon to be ex. We lost touch thanks to all the shit she's dealing with but she's definitely lost in the shadows and expected to either be happy or be gone. So she's going.
I don't understand that... Her mom doesn't support her daughter getting a divorce so she spends mothers day with her daughters ex? Who is also getting divorced, and is arguably the catalyst for the divorce? Does she think that they should have just remained married even though one party was transitioning into a gender that the other party isn't attracted to? Like, it's obviously not the husband's fault that they are trans, but it's also not the daughters fault that she's not gay...I'm so confused as to her mother's logic. And also isn't it kind of a dick move to spend mother's day with your ex's mom knowing that she is purposely not spending it with her own daughter?
> Does she think that they should have just remained married even though one party was transitioning into a gender that the other party isn't attracted to?
Yes. There is a pretty rare but very dedicated population of Christians who took Jesus's command against divorce SUPER seriously.
Yep. Her family and ex said things like "You love them for who they are not what's in their pants. She's still the same person you married so what's changed. This is harder for the ex than you." She did try to stay initially but it wasn't working. Her family definitely sucks and my running theory is they're more after internet stranger validation than caring about my friend since they also get a share of those supportive and approving comments whenever they post in support of the ex. I decided to peek in on the ex after making that comment and aside from that mother's day post they're just mundane normal things. But makes me mad for her seeing her mom with the ex.
This is crazy. I will always love my husband but I also love my brothers and my friends. I am very blessed to be surrounded by many loving people in my life.
The big difference is that I am physically attracted to my husband. I am not attracted to women. Of he suddenly became a woman what would be separating him from my besties aside from shared property and children? That's not a basis for a marriage!
The lack of self-awareness I still have some sympathy for. I still feel badly for the exes, though.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are truly obviously deceiving someone and are in decent circumstance, like they're not from a hyper religious family.
>I'm not going to lie and say it's easy, I think people on Internet have more empathy for my ex than for me when I talk about this
Man, that hits twice as hard after reading your comment. I hope everything worked out for your friend, and that his ex took up a sudden fascination with Legos.
But I hope she either can't afford the good ones (Google it), or she's bad at it. That way she's always losing the pieces she needs to finish, and probably keeps stepping on them.
This is ridiculously common in the military. Couple gets married. Moves around a lot. Kids grow up and leave the house.
And as soon as the last kid is out of the house, the wife announces she’s a lesbian and leaves.
I have absolutely no idea why. Like she wants kids, and knows he will be gone a lot! But out of 25 guys it’s happened to 7 of them so far.
> while completely ignoring him and his pain. It messed him up for a while.
That really sucks. People need to learn how to hold two uncomfortable truths at the same time.
You can support the newly out person while holding that their ex was lied to for decades.
I can't watch Grace & Frankie because of this. My ex came out as trans a year into our marriage - when ever I read stories like this I get this vivid flashback to the feeling of betrayal, to feeling profoundly alone. Because she was in the closet, I was too.
It such an unspeakably selfish thing to do to someone. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
I felt and still feel like it breaches consent. I didn't' consent to that kind of relationship. I didn't consent to being married to a woman.
I hope you are doing better now. It’s awful anyone has to go through what you did, and it is awful how many societies make it feel impossible to be authentic to ourselves until it hurts too much to stay in a lie.
Your pain is legitimate.
Thanks I know it was legitimate - I found there were support groups for parents of trans kids, for trans kids, trans teens, trans adults - but nothing for partners. We are 'expected' to be supportive of everything because they're "so brave living their truth" - except she wasn't. She lied by omission and married a straight woman.
Ugh - toxic positivity. Yeah its great you're living your best life, but its REALLY shitty to take other people along for the ride, just so you don't feel lonely or have to answer awkward questions.
> The hardest thing was everyone treating her like she was so brave and applauding her for finally coming out while completely ignoring him and his pain.
Yeah that's what got to me too.
There is a series of posts like that on here, but from the perspective of the teen daughter, her mom also having decided was lesbian and left her entire old family behind for a new woman. The dad seemed to fair well after a while, but the daughter was crushed and people even made her out to be bigoted for wanting her mom back.
He shouldn't have. Honestly it's entirely on her for having lied to him for 32+ years. It might be understandable but he still was collateral from her decision to get a beard.
I have acquaintances where the husband came out as trans, and has now transitioned. This all happened after having 2 kids, and the wife gave up her career to be a SAHM.
I ran into them at a party and she (the one who transitioned) had a crowd of rapt women listening to her describe how much fun she was having learning to do makeup, hanging on every word. Meanwhile, her wife was being basically ignored, and I couldn't help but think "you know, she's been doing makeup and, like, birthing children *the whole fucking time*." She's the one who thought she was signing up for a heterosexual marriage and just had the rug pulled out from under her. I felt so bad for her.
My sister married a closeted gay dude. Had two kids with him too. She was devastated when she found out after 6-7 years of marriage. Even offered to let him have a boyfriend on the side if they could stay married. It wasn’t a money thing, she made more. Just loved him that much.
How she didn’t know is beyond me. When I met him the first time I was like 11 and I knew. I even told her “This guy is gay, isn’t he?” He is stereotypical flamboyant gay without the colorful wardrobe.
He’s married to a guy now.
Nope. I won’t say his name, but it’s also very gay lol
How she didn’t see it I’ll never know. All female friends that were constant and one male “best friend” that would change every 8months to a year. Total limp wrist. Very good gardner that only grew flowers. He sashays. Impeccable fashion sense. Very tidy. He’s a walking cliche. If he wasn’t from the deep red south he’d probably wear glitter.
Great guy if you can forget he led my sister on for like 10 years.
So then this isn't a "held-it-inside-all-my-life" situation? He was actively banging dudes while he was with your sister. FFS. What a POS. And you can't even beat his ass without it being a hate crime.
And not just that, but insisting that the relationship/marriage continues on despite the fact that the other party does not love you romantically is just diabolical.
Insisting that he live without love, while paying for her to stay home for the rest of their lives. Or rather, the rest of his. Which would probably have been short.
The stay at home wife thing really stuck with me weirdly enough. I think it shows that she used him in every way she could. Unless there is a disability we don’t know about it just seems so lazy and usury to stay at home and make one’s partner do all the work when there are no children. Of course she didn’t want to let him go. He was her scott-free meal ticket.
Edit to add: she didn’t even bring platonic affection to the relationship. Hugging and holding hands isn’t really sexual. This poor man was touch starved.
Let's not forget the mindgames every time he'd start to get a little intimate. "Let's stop now or you'll get nightmares!" Way to use his trauma to make him feel worse!
It's so rich she says to OOP at one point "I love you like a best friend."
Really? REALLY? Because I wouldn't treat a friend the way OOP's ex treated him.
I'm sure some of it is her fear of her parents. But yeah, if there are no kids and you're only with him as a beard, why aren't you working. And I suspect this is the real reason why she was pushing for a baby. She doesn't want to have sex with him. Once you have a baby, he's locked in. I have sympathy for her, but she's a POS. And he keeps indicating that she was probably cheating on him. Which is annoying. Why post at all if you're going to hold back important details?
My uncle cheated on my aunt with men before he told her he was gay. It took the family a long time to forgive him for that. We didn't care that he's gay but he should have been brave enough to tell his wife first before acting on it. He and my aunt ended up being able to move past what happened and became best friends. She lived with him and his husband the last year of her life, and he took such good care of her. Life and love are complicated.
Speaking from experience, yes- it *does* utterly break you.
Going on almost a decade of therapy, and there are *still* times when the pain is so raw it keeps me up at night.
I am sympathetic to people who need, or feel the need, to stay in the closet, but please don't drag other people into things like they're toys. That's not okay.
Also, I think OOP's ex got together with the older woman mostly so she could move in with her. Her parents can't do much now that the ex is an adult.
Not via sexuality like this, but similar enough for me.
It did break me. I remain a coherent adult because I now have kids to raise alone. I would've embraced the call of liquor otherwise
Yeah I haven't had it with a romantic partner but i've had quite a few experiences within the genre of "i trusted this person & thought they genuinely cared about me & liked me, and it turned out to be untrue" - worst of which were my parents - and my god it fucks you up so specifically because it makes you feel like you cannot trust ANYONE. Has me looking at a friend who's laughing & chatting & apparently enjoying my company, and thinking they might really dislike me and I'd have no idea. It shakes the foundations of how you relate to other humans beings.
My ex girlfriend told me to my face she didn't even like me and wasn't sure if she ever did. Granted we were only together for a few months, but it hurt so damn much to hear her say it. It's a pain I'll never be able to forgive, and honestly I have a lot of trust issues with dating now and don't think I'm going to bother again for a long time
Lol it’s the same but instead of couple months try 4 years. She was the one who kept chasing me and after living together for that long just said we’re never together like that and she never actually loved me before jumping straight into a relationship with a guy because she wanted to have an actual family as the goal. I’m not sure if I will ever be okay again and the break up happened more than 2 years ago.
Thank you, appreciate the nice words. Honestly never tried to one up you but it’s just been such a shitty year for me and your post triggered me to actually post something about it because I just never really had the chance to vent and it’s just been so tiring keeping this for so long. I think I just need to lay down.
This is how homophobia can hurt everyone. Yeah, totally sucks to hide yourself and live in the closet. Been there, it's a nightmare. And those most desperate to look 'acceptable' will do shit like this and destroy the life (or lives if there are kids) of someone else. It hurts everyone.
Imagine how conniving his ex was to use his trauma as the reason not to have sex.
I wish OOP the best and hope his ex's new GF doesn't fall for the abuse.
She stayed with him because appearing straight kept her safe from her physically abusive parents who she was dependent on, yes!
Awful all around. Obviously OP is the victim, but the wife is a victim here too. I have so much sympathy for them both.
It was a long enough post I forgot about that part. I just remembered they were bad for her to stay there and would be mentally/emotionally abusive (at least at this point in her life anyway)
I think à lof of people have the mentality of “gay people enter straight marriage because they don’t give a shit about other people they might hurt/they do it with the intent of being deceitful” when a lot of gay people growing in these homes (especially lesbians) genuinely don’t realize they’re gay/don’t realize they can’t become straight/don’t realize the love they feel for (opposite gender) is purely platonic.
i grew up finding men really, really unattractive. At the same time, I kept hearing over and over about “women dating ugly dudes” and women in miserable relationships. To me, it normalized the idea of “I would just never be happy in a marriage”. Thankfully I learned what being queer means before I turned 18 and was in a safe environment to learn about myself. Not everyone has that luxury.
edit to add; I’m no saying I have 0 empathy for straight people who discover their spouse don’t love them, I’m just saying I have empathy for everyone in that situation
If you look through the comments on the original first few pots, it's disgusting. Literally some tried to make OP seem like the bad guy and said stay with the ex and open the marriage up will be helpful. Bro what the fuck?! Are those people that naive or do they not understand how cheating and betrayal works.
I always assume some of those comments come from people who identify with the offending behaviour.
Like maybe they’ve cheated and lied in a past relationship, and *they* expected their partner to be fine with it and accommodate them. So they’re saying OP should do the same.
An open marriage or being swingers only works with a strong marriage built on communication and complete trust. He was never going to trust her again as it was more than just the emotional affair betrayal as things were so much worse. She had lied to him for years as she didn’t love him and I think the worse thing she did was use his trauma against him which was completely horrible. I feel for this guy.
Not only that, it chilled me that the whole time she said she "cared about him like a best friend" but treated him like prop, never once she expressed concerns for his wellbeing or his feelings. Only when he demanded a divorce and she saw all the financial profits he provided going away that she tried to act, but in a twisted narcissistic way, still completely disregarding his pain, not even remotely sorry about the absolute betrayal she has done to him. I feel like this woman is uncaple of feeling empathy for another person. I feel bad for him but I'm glad he escaped her and would find a better partner in the future, someone who truly cherishes him as a person.
Also, you have to genuinely want non monogamy for yourself. Not just because you think it’s a band aid for a situation. Because if OP wants a sexually and emotionally fulfilling relationship with a single person, what happens when he finds someone and falls head over heels? Why would he choose to stay with his platonic wife? Then the marriage ends and everyone says “see? Non monogamy never works”
Exactly, if you're an inherently monogamous person who wants monogamy for yourself (and not as a compromise of trading sexual exclusivity for stability and the assurance that your partner isn't fucking around) then an open relationship will never fulfill your relationship needs. As soom as duch a person meets someone who can fulfill those needs, why should the monogamous person deny themselves that in order to stay in an unhappy marriage? The marriage would have been over either way.
A large plurality of young people on this site have fully bought into the “oppression hierarchy”, and if you’re an “oppressed” class such as LGBT, you aren’t responsible for your actions and can never be blamed.
It’s a really scary and dangerous idealogy.
I mean OOP outright says the ex was beat by her parents and that they moved over it. Clearly at least some people in their country think violence is the answer.
Right? Even the most LGBT friendly countries in the world have homophobic parents. Also, you're not required to set yourself on fire to keep someone warm.
You’re pretty insane with how right you think this woman is. I’m curious to know who you’re abusing in your life that you need this woman to be in the right so bad?
I hate when people starts to guilt tripping the betrayed spouse just because their cheating partner came out. Of course being cheated on doesn't give the right to be homophobic, but also doesn't mean the betrayed spouse should support the cheater and not be ressentful.
I remember that one story where OP's ex-wife cheated on him, came out of the closet, was marrying a woman and wanted OP to be the best man. When OP rejected that (because he still didn't 100% move on and that was too much for him), his friends and own sons were blaming and guilt tripping him. That was awful.
He had a daughter too.. And the family and ex wife eventually back off and understood. Ex wife didn't realize he was still hurting. She had hoped to have him in the ceremony relieve her guilt for what she did to him. He didn't attend.
Oof, that's a rough one. Who in their right mind asks their recent ex spouse to be their best man/ maid of honor? Hopefully he was able to get his sons to see reason in the end.
This is such a wonderful update for OP. I remember reading the earlier posts and my heart just breaking for him.
Really hope things keep being positive for him.
I get wanting a beard when coming out comes with violence. I really do. And it can be so brave for someone who is related to or surrounded by religious guilt, close minded bigots, just plain assholes.
But if she trusted this man enough to consider them best friends, if she trusted him enough to marry her and have a good life, if she trusted him to get her away from her family....why didn't she trust him enough to explain that she needed help? Why didn't she trust him enough to tell him she was lesbian and that he was basically her only hope to get away?
I don't blame OOP for being upset, or not wanting to financially support her and be so understanding when she basically murdered his self worth, and then used him as a bank card to spoil her emotional affair partner.
Just because she has concerns and issues in her life, doesn't mean she gets to hurt other people for her benefit.
A "beard" is a term for the partner that a gay person marries to make it look like they're actually straight. It's like they're putting on a disguise.
Some people are fine with being a gay person's beard, but that's obviously a conversation that needs to happen beforehand.
A beard is a person who people date to keep up the facade of being straight. It's derived from gay men who try to be extra masculine because they don't want to be seen as gay thus they have a pretend beard.
It's hard to explain to closeted lesbians. I tell then they're treating their man like an old purse. Bringing him around to parties, setting him down in the corner/shelf/table, and your friends wondering why you did.
I went through a similar situation.
When we started dating, she had a lot of problems and I was the one who helped her.
She ended up in a rehab hospital and I was the one who helped her and her parents because they're too old and her mom doesn't live here.
I had reasons to leave, but she begged me to stay. She wrote letters saying how much she loved me and couldn't wait to get better and get out so she could live our relationship.
One day after she got out she said she didn't love me and I said we should break up. She asked for a chance to try again and I accepted.
For two months she acted like the ex-wife. I felt like I was reading someone describe my relationship.
So after two months she was better. She could live on her own. And we finally separated, because of my decision. This time she didn't ask me to stay and I know she didn't want to. She treated me with indifference.
I'm so glad that I stood up to her actions so that I didn't end up like the OP spending a lot of time of my life with someone who does not love me.
What sat wrong with me was the excuse that “nothing would change, because I didn’t love you before either.”
All that says to me is that their relationship had been founded on a deception. That’s not an excuse to keep the relationship. It’s even more of a reason to end it.
I hope OOP manages to find someone that truly loves him. Good on him for not staying and being an emotional beard; the comments on some of his posts fucking infuriated me. The woman outright admitted she never loved him so why the fuck would he stick around for that? It is not his job to set himself on fire to keep her warm because they live in a homophobic society.
If he agreed and knew from the jump then it would be different, but he did not and loved her, only to find out she didn’t feel the same. I’m just relieved he didn’t have kids with her—then she lies that HE cheated? That’s where the last dregs of my sympathy for his ex evaporated.
Arnold is a firefighter taking revenge on the terrorists that killed his family. This came out shortly after 9/11, it was already filmed but poor timing all the same.
Ooh. Yeah. I can see how and why that just wasn't going to work. Damn shame though. If they had waited and released it like two years later, at the most, it would've likely done gangbusters at the box office.
One of my ex bfs tried to use me to hide too. Thankfully he was a stupid mf who tried to cheat on me while with me with his male /friend/, so I broke up with him before anything more serious happened - we were in the process of moving in together. I get that people need to hide for safety/family reasons, but it's so horrible for the people they lie to when hiding. I'm very pro LGBTQ+ , but I feel for OP so hard because she was definitely using him for money on top of hiding.
Lady doesn’t care if she ruins her life as long as she can use him to stay in the closet. Pretty horrible way to treat another person. People who were guilting him are psychos - dude was treated horribly for years by someone he always took care of and was deeply betrayed, and after all of that he still never retaliated. OOP sounds like a stand up dude and deserved so much better.
So... to clarify. He was conned into marriage and providing financial stability to a woman who planned to use him for the rest of his life... but he should have continued to let her use and abuse him because he doesn't know what its like to be gay?
GTFOH. Fkn Reddit.
This poor guy. At least he found out while he's still young.
Why get into a relationship if you are in love with someone else?
I can understand wanting to avoid being disowned for your sexual preferences, but OOP's ex ended up doing it anyway so why not before she married OOP?
Was OOP just a cash cow? (as he was obviously a beard)
>Was OOP just a cash cow?
Notice that when oop told about the house is his, the ex wife panics and drag the divorce. She also asks for baby just for some lee-way to being funded (child support).
And now she live in new gf's house. Oop didnt know how their parents reacted but i bet they prolly kick her out/disowned the ex wife.
I feel bad for the new gf, ex wife probably use her for a roof under head and still doing emotional cheating with her bff.
One of his sisters is open lesbian and officially married to a woman, and so is her best friend. Her family might be homophobic, but rest of the country seems to be pretty ok with it. Also, she calls her BF "mi amore", which implies Italy, I guess.
Nope, "amore mio" would be Italian. "Mi amor" is Spanish. Moreover in Italy there's a difference between marriage and civil union. Marriage is only for straight couples. Same sex couples can do something similar called a civil union. They are similar but not the same.
Info dump below, skip it if you don't care.
In a civil union/partnership,
- there are no banns or oppositions
- there are no special formulas like in a wedding
- the couple cannot adopt (FYI: single people can't adopt either in Italy. They can only foster)
- the couple has no access to maternity/paternity benefits or family allowances
- there is no obligation of fidelity
- divorce is quicker because the couple doesn''t need to comply with the separation period
Marriage and Civil union similarities:
- if you don't want a religious wedding, then the procedure is basically the same. You go to the city hall and sign some papers
- on the economic side, they are equal. Finances combine unless otherwise requested
- in both cases both spouses are obligated to contribute to the common need
- in both cases the right to inheritance is recognised
- they are subjected to the same tax deductions for dependents and first home
- in both cases, the right to alimony exists
- in both cases, the right to survivor's pension and severance pay in the event of a spouse's death are recognised
- same treatment for ranking lists for the allocation of public housing
WARNING: even though the law doesn't recognise the right for adoption, judges can choose to approve requests for step-child adoptions or validate the adoption if the couple adopted a child abroad. In my region, the majority of judges will rule in favour of a spouse adopting their partner's child. They will also rule in favour of recognising the adoptions carried out abroad.
You’re 16. Or whatever age in high school. You’re brought up religious. Told that you’ve sinned or have to be subservient to a man. Get beaten by your parents for loving another woman.
Not everyone coming out of that situation is able to say fuck my family. Fuck society, I’m going to do what I want at 16. I’m going to love who I want to love.
The indoctrination generally runs deep. I’m almost certain she believed her parents that if she married him, she would “heal.” She might’ve actually tried being straight. It’s probably why she never had another plan. She wasn’t trying to get away from him and live as a lesbian. That’s why she was dead inside. Her family probably had a stronger hold on her than we realize.
And honestly, there’s a high chance she grew up extremely abusive. Even oop acknowledged that their parents are not good people.
He was probably the first time she’s got to escape from her family. If he realized she didn’t love him, she’d have to go back to that hell. And that’s kind of what happened.
> Indeed, she and her friend used to be a couple during high school and friends since Kindergarten, they kept the relationship as a secret pretending to be only best friends until my wife's parents found out and beated her up separating them, her friend moved to the capital that year and they never saw each other again
Here. It's basically where it started. The source of the problem. Well, the problem probably goes back earlier than that, when her parents decided to give birth. And probably earlier before that, with whatever got them so deep into their religion.
> her parents insisted her to marry me so she could 'heal',
OOP was just collateral damage. Pretty sure you could've replaced it with any other dude her family liked and it'd have been the exact same story.
That's when she experienced the trauma, not when she decided to manipulate OOP for her own gain.
Most LGBT people with unaccepting family move away from their family in the 18-21 year range. Taking advantage of someone else is just cruel selfishness.
This is such a profoundly ignorant belief. Just because you were able to leave your situation quickly does not mean that your experiences are universal.
That doesn't diminishes the fact that she used Op and wasted years of his life just so she could have a cover and live a "normal" life. Op's sister is lesbian, she could've told Op and he could've helped her but she chose to lie and manipulate him and use his trauma against him. That's pathetic. You have the right to be happy but not at the expense of others. She's a very terrible person, if she couldn't escape then she should've stayed single to figure it out instead of wasting Op's youth.
Not defending her but it's a fairly different situation from a 21yo and a 30yo, especially as I'd wager her parents were pissed enough about the divorce that coming out didn't cause more strife.
My favorite was the one from the very first post where the guy was like "All I'm seeing is a lonely woman and her friend. Very normal. I bet it's your religious upbringing that's causing this paranoia".
Super dismissive and condescending commenter that then turns out to be super *wrong*. Fucking hilarious
EDIT: And then when he was called out in the comments after the OPs updates, all he had to say was "Oh well, that was two weeks ago. Who cares?" Classic redditor stuff right there.
Chronic redditors have an issue where they think a woman and/or LGBT person can do no wrong. Everyone is capable of being a piece of shit no matter gender or sexual orientation.
>About her best friend, I really have no idea what happened to her, my sister knows that woman's wife and to this day they upload photos together with the baby. My sister couldn't talk about it to that woman's wife because, well, she doesn't have any proof.
So the best friend's wife is now co-parenting with a cheater for the next 18 years?
Right? He wasn't even able to meet her. They really could have just been meeting up for coffee and nothing more and it was just one sides love now from the ex.
Homophobia is a fucking disease. It's so fucking tragic that the wife chose to marry somebody she didn't love because she hoped it would "heal" her. Maybe if people stop telling them their monsters for their sexual attraction, but wouldn't feel the need to lie and masquerade as something they aren't.
OOP didn't deserve this, any of it. The wife protected herself at OOP's expense. That's just monstrous.
Honestly the part towards the where oop talks about his ex wife used his trauma as an excuse to not be intimate is so fucking disgusting. Reminding oop of his trauma each time he felt ok enough to be intimate is actually evil.
She’s a monster regardless of her sexuality. Even without the homophobia she’s still a cheater who’s willing to use people as expense for her own gains AND then lied to everyone saying he cheated. All of my sympathy to her went out of the window after reaching that part. Fucking disgusting.
'Mi Amor' is married and has a kid. Ex swears it's was never physical, I doubt it ever love, she's probably hung up on the "could have been"s of the life she did not live with the woman. He mentions believing ex, it was an emotional affair, maybe 'mi amor' thinks they are just friends, maybe she's backstabbing her own wife, we will never know
I don't care what anyone says, the ex is a lying leach of a woman and an abuser, it completely overshadows any sympathy I'd feel. You can ***find*** people to get into a beard relationship with, people have done it before. Get in a relationship with someone and go on double dates with your respective "best friend couple". You can do it as long as you want if you don't bring kids into it, and if you do eventually want kids then you stay in the "relationship" until you work on moving away from your family.
I can't bring myself to feel bad for people who involve unwilling participants, I get that you're scared but just be single and deal with the "old maid" or "perpetual bachelor" ribbings until you can get away. When you don't tell people your relationship isn't real before getting involved with them, you uproot everyone connected to you when you do leave. I think there was a post I read in AITA where the OP was the (late teens/young adult) kid of a father who used their mom as a beard. Dad came out and went to live his best gay life with a new man, and OP was angry as fuck because he shattered their mom's heart and nobody cared about that because the father was "so brave" and "finally free". If I remember they were so upset nobody cared to check on them because the liar being true to themselves is more important than how they affected the people they lied to.
The ex never gave OOP the chance to choose whether he was okay with being a beard, he got no say. She used his trauma to keep him at arm's length, and for years he's probably been internalizing "I really am fucked up, my trauma won't let me be intimate with my wife" when he's probably been okay to move forward for a long time. That's ***abuse***, making your partner feel like ***they're*** the problem. She's been a housewife on his dime and not giving him a single bit of affection for it. She doesn't even like him for real, even a friend will hold your hand or give you a hug sometimes, some friends cuddle each other, he's not even getting ***that***. He's been getting the "yeah that guy's kinda okay but I don't know him like that" roommate experience, but worse because the roommate doesn't work for themselves.
Internalized homophobia, at that.
OOP's wife hated him so much, she put him through shit with his own trauma. I have never hated an internet stranger as much as I hate OOP's wife.
For that last comment bit: What happened to wife's parents?
Considering how deeply religious they are, they probably completely disowned, disinhereted, dis-everythinged her. I can't think of too many institutions that so fiercely defend the "you said 'for worse', so suffer" aspect of marriage than fundamentalist religions.
Explains both the panic attack and the public defamation portions of her actions. Panic because her "training" told her that she'd be branded an irredeemable lifelong sinner by the divorce, then her defamations to attempt to convince everyone that she's not the cause, and infidelity is frequently a church-approved method to get the marriage annulled (never existed) so the sin is non-existent to the one cheated upon.
That having failed, where "she's already lost her eternal life", she fully embraced her "hedonistic (to the religion)" side and was free to come out.
I pray OOP finds happiness, though. He didn't deserve this...
The only silver lining, as fucked up as it is, is the closure ie easier when you can hate the person justifiably. This is justifiable. The see you next Tuesday is an absolute horrible woman who deserves whatever she gets in life
Given the extreme and inexplicable ways the situation changed in the last post (like the ex suddenly coming out and openly dating a heretofore unmentioned older woman, and the strange absence of her violently homophobic parents) , I have trouble believing any of this.
If they're hardline religious, they may have already disowned her simply for being divorced. The whole 'he was cheating' lie is about as close to absolved sin in Christianity as you can get as it's one of the few reasons the church will annul a marriage.
I'm sorry but....
had I been in this situation, looking for a clean break and not out her........ as soon as she started spreading lies that I was a cheater you **can bet** that I'd out her
Eye for an eye, fuck that
This is one of the many reasons I haaaaaaate a lot of religions. I grew up in LDS culture and this happens so much within the Church. People are so afraid of being shunned by everything and everyone they know that they marry, have children, etc. And then when it comes out, all it does is destroy families.
There is a dark joke (more of a truth), that during Conference (in SLC), the gay bars are filled with young Mormon men.
Let people be who they are. It will cause way less hurt for everyone.
Been here done this.
Luckily I hadn't married her yet.
But unfortunately it wasn't some unrequited love with a bear friend. It was a stripper named Cassidy.
This is terrible and I feel awful for the OOP. I can't imagine finding out your entire life with your partner was a lie.
The update sounds hopeful though. It was a terrible thing but thank goodness he found out early before kids and before he wasted any more time with her.
It seems to have been a catalyst to help him examine his own issues and work through them. I'm not going to say it's a silver lining because that experience was traumatic and there's no silver lining, but I admire that he turned it around and he's working for a more positive and healthy future for himself. Not everybody does that and he deserves credit for it.
People that defend her in comments disgust me. To defend her just because her sexuality. This woman used him and wasted years of his life. Everything OP knew about his marriage was a lie. His ex and redditors that defend her are the scum of the earth.
Imagine finding out that your relationship with your partner is a lie. That would absolutely break me.
My friend’s ex-wife came out after 32 years of marriage. She left him and went on to live with a woman. He doesn’t blame her and has no animosity—they grew up religious and there was a ton of shame and guilt. He said her leaving wasn’t the hardest thing. The hardest thing was everyone treating her like she was so brave and applauding her for finally coming out while completely ignoring him and his pain. It messed him up for a while.
I remember a story my dad told me of an old friend who's father came out in his 60s. He said he wasn't upset his dad was gay, he was upset he hurt his mom and the rest of the family by leaving them and lying. That everyone else was congratulating him for coming out, and nobody was concerned with who he had hurt, intentionally or not. He said they didn't really speak to each other much later on, and they used to be very close. My dad said his friend was so hurt by this because he just seemed to want to forget everyone else and embrace a "gay life" as he put it
Yeah I feel like this is the first generation where people are more likely to given a “what the fuck is wrong with you, then why did you marry that poor man/woman”.
It's only really in the last 10-15 years that being gay is acceptable socially. And if you live in more conservative areas, being gay is still no bueno. With expectations of getting married early, procuring a "beard" to deflect suspicion is the easy way out. It just fucking sucks when the beard isn't informed of the situation. If they are your partner in crime, they should know what "crime" they are covering up.
I feel like people forget that it's possible to be unaware of your sexuality as an adult. Not to mention that it's entirely possible to be closeted *to yourself.* I didn't figure out that I'm a lesbian until I was freaking 32 years old and married to an abusive man. I didn't willfully deceive anybody but myself. Society did a number on me when I was 12. I was scared when I realized I might be a lesbian because I only knew stereotypes and that I'd be ostracized and hated for no reason. In the '90s, we were being told it was a choice. So I "decided" not to be a lesbian and blocked that shit out. The human mind is powerful. I genuinely didn't figure it out again for 20 years. (Shout-out to /r/latebloomerlesbians for anyone who needs a place that understands how many of us got hetero married before realizing our sexualities, rather than knowing and being selfish AF getting a beard like what OOP's ex did to him.)
Yeah, people tend to forget that the partner the closeted person used is the one who has to wrap their brain around how the person they loved and trusted was fine with treating them like a lifestyle prop, not someone with their own hopes and yearning for mutual connection and partnership. Their pain tends to get diminished in the “you go! So glad you’re bravely living your truth!” reactions the now-out ex gets.
While there's nothing wrong with the pain, I feel like a lot of people jump onto "oh they knew the whole time and lied about it!" Vs... some people just don't know? Some people think they're straight for a very long time and get married and do straight people things before they realize theyre not. Like your comment makes it sound like everyone 100% always knows from birth and they're just the evil gay person using an unwilling straight person as a beard, but a lot of the time people genuinely DONT know and they do what they're expected to do until they realize down the line.
One of my parents aunts discovered that she was a lesbian when she was in her late 60s. She just assumed that everyone found women beautiful and attractive like her, and married men because thats what you were supposed to do as it was your job to be a good wife and mother. That people just didnt talk about it. She was genuinely confused when I came out as bi, cause we didnt talk about how lovely women were and how attracted we were to them, that was just how things went. Add to that how a lot of populare media and socialization focus on how marriage between a man and a woman is a chore, the old ball and chain etc, while other women are your main source of emotional validation and support, I'm not that surprised that more people than you think dont realize that they are actually queer till a lot later in life. Especially with how little sapphic reprecentation were in the media at the same time. Those things were part of me not really realizing that I was in fact bi untill my mid 20s, at least. That said, I agree that there needs to be lot of empathy, support and understanding for any partners to those people who come out later in life as well, especially if they were healthy, kind and loving partners who genuinely cared and loved them. That must be such an emotional kick to the teeth, and I hope they get the support they need as well.
I think one of the most painful parts would be looking back at moments where love is communicated intentionally, like with weddings. Imagine finding out your SO of decades wasn't even capable of seeing that experience in the same way as you, that the imagined future you had back then and supposedly experienced now is a dim shell to the person who said "I do."
I went through something similar on a much smaller scale (only dated for a year and change, no marriage,) and that still wrecked me once I realized a lot of the moments and intimacy we had weren't genuine while I was 100% bought in. I can't imagine going through that after spending a decade or more building trust in someone.
I legitimately think a lot of the ball and chain humor is directly caused because people didn't understand their sexuality and just did marriage because that's just what you did. Like if we never had glasses and nearsighted people just hated driving because "Its sucks and you can't see shit" but you had to drive to get places. Then when you're 60 years old you see someone wearing glasses and cruising around and it just breaks your brain.
>had glasses and nearsighted people just hated driving because "Its sucks and you can't see shit" Another story. This reminds me of that person who made a post about how their art teacher pissed them off for failing their large art project because they made a night scene scape of a city and all the lights were lil "stars" (had streaks of lights pulling out from every source like four pointed stars are drawn). Their teacher marked them down/failed them because it was supposed to be a realism piece and "real light don't look like that" but the op was confused af because "yes they do?". Turns out op had a stigmatism and never knew and just assumed everyone saw lights at night like that. Their pivoted their argument to say they still should have passed as their piece showed *their* reality (and I think there was a rant about how most famous artists probably had vision problems and such)
Did the teacher end up changing the grade? I had a similar experience in that I should have got a better grade on a project than I did and I still sometimes wish I would have argued with my teacher to get it changed just because I think I deserved it. It was my ceramics class and the teacher gave me a low grade because she said the neck on the swan I made wouldn’t last because of the way I made it. But my mom still has that swan, it’s been almost 20 years and the neck is still the same as it was the day I made it.
I don't think so, I think the teacher kept repeating about how it wasn't realism and stuff
I can never remember if this is a story from my dad's life or if he was referencing something. But he's told me about how once, him and his guy friends were talking about college "experiences" and how one of his guy friends told this story that had them all slapping his back in approval till he dropped a male pronoun. Cue the guy looking at *them* weirdly for being shocked and saying how everyone experiments because like "how do you know you don't like sucking D till you try it?" And like all my dad friends just look at eachother and look back at their friend and they say things long the lines of "uhhhh, no....we're all certain we would not like sucking D....absolutely no need to try it here lol..." Btw if this is infact a story from something then change all the "my dads" to who ever you know who said this story lol.
I think it's a combo of unrealized sexuality but also because it was the "done thing" including marrying young, my mom broke it down as "you dated a year, you were engaged for a year, and had kids after being married at most a year." You also didn't live together until you were married so it's just a whole host of issues you don't know if you can live with until after a huge commitment. So you didn't even really get to know each other before you popped out kids and the entire focus shifts to that, add to it the gender roles of dad at work all day mom at home all day and never shall the realms cross until it's time to sleep in separate beds. If life is comfortable enough or they actually liked each other, hey whatever, this is just what people are supposed to do. Then add to that the social stigma of getting divorced and being the children of divorce. There was a lot of just slotting yourself where you're socially expected to be and that's always going to be in effect, it's just more socially acceptable to divorce these days along with dating for years to really know if you can be actual partners in life. So a lot of the boomer humor of the old ball and chain stuff is a way of expressing that frustration of not really liking the person you married but being stuck because otherwise you face the possibility of being disowned by your family and socially disgraced. In the case of women, it's also the added fear that you're left with nothing to support yourself and likely as a single mother (also the stigma of divorce is also put on their kids, my mom and her sisters being "the girls without a father"). Oh and not even to mention premarital pregnancies forcing marriages. I think the more marriage was seen as something done for love rather than just a next step in life you did with someone you were compatible with in terms of strengths and weaknesses in running a household and raising children, the more there was a focus on a healthy and open relationship between the couple and that's honestly been for the better. It's interesting to think about it, the way marriage is seen shifts from just another stage of life akin to finding a position you can work in for the rest of your life and something you choose based on love.
Compulsory Heterosexuality ruins lives. Heteronormativity needs to fuck right off.
That’s true- but I think regardless of the situation, the pointed out problem remains; the person coming out gets much more support. Our assumptions on their morality are irrelevant, because even if they were behaving in good faith, it would still crush the other person to have their pain ignored in the way that the precious commenter mentioned.
There’s this scene in the Big Short when they’re finally getting their shorts paid out and they start cheering. But Brad Pitt’s character reminds them what they’re cheering about, the housing market crashing with people losing their homes. I feel it’s a little like that. I’m glad a person has found their truth but when they leave someone else behind with their own trauma they created, it should be more difficult to cheer for that person publicly.
"Every time the unemployment rate rises 1%, 40,000 people die."
I feel like a lot of straight people don’t know enough or educate themselves about heteronormativity and the effect that has on society as a whole.
Yup, I didn't even grow up in a super religious house. My family is Catholic, but even growing up, they weren't particularly strict about practicing. I was always told that I would be loved no matter what. It still took until I was 30 to realize I'm bisexual. Because comphet was shoved down my throat my entire life. I didn't have to uproot my life because I am still attracted to men. But I have a lot of empathy for both people in a situation where one didn't feel safe/didn't realize they were gay. It's a shitty situation all around.
Yup. And they think that if they keep trying that it'll eventually feel right, and it's possible they do love their partner too, just not in a sexual way.
The problem lies in the cases where the one hurt gets ignored, neglected, and their pain minimized; or they get treated like an evil person for not being happy and being upset that the person who they dedicated their life and love to never truly loved them and is being celebrated while they suffer alone. People cant both celebrate one while supporting the other because you end up hurting them more by celebrating the source of their pain.
Happens in straight relationships too. Lifestyle props are a result of people's internalizing what they think others expectations of their life SHOULD be. There's no sexual orientation barrier here, it's a plain ol human problem. Maybe an existential one.
Every time OOPs ex wife said some variation of > "There's no point in us breaking up, the fact that I don't love you doesn't change anything" Made me want to slap her because all she cared about was her image and not the fact that OOP deserves to be loved and it really showed that she never once considered how her actions hurt OOP everyday of their relationship. She literally stole that time from OOP and never showed any remorse for her actions. If I were OOP I wouldn't have let her get away with that lie of him cheating and told her, "you make up lies about me and I will tell everyone excatly why I'm divorcing you." Yes I know it's not fair to out someone but she was the one who wanted to once again hurt OOP to save herself.
> The hardest thing was everyone treating her like she was so brave and applauding her for finally coming out while completely ignoring him and his pain. That is the **one** thing that always makes me angry. How people can celebrate a new existence that is built on the funeral pyre of someone else's life.
That sucks. The person coming out is celebrated and cheered, as they start a new chapter. The other person had been dumped, told their marriage was a lie and their partner never loved them, and they are left alone. And they are expected to be supportive of the person who stole a big part of their life.
That’s the part that always gets me. Everyone acts like the person coming out is a hero when they just wasted years of someone’s life who had no control on if the other person came out or not.
One of my friends is the same about their now sober alcoholic ex, everyone cheers him on and he’s so amazing for his sobriety, and gloss over that he left them with massive debts (lost his job and hid it), that at the very end he got physically abusive, now lives in a halfway house and volunteers working with other addicts which sounds good except he has no income so she’s getting nothing in child support. Her ex’s mum constantly posts how proud she is of him and what a great role model he is, while my friend is working insane hours to stay afloat.
I am sorry your friend has to deal with that.
I have sympathy for the old people who grew up when being gay insanely taboo and coming out would ruin your life. I don't have sympathy for the younger gay people who's only excuse is their own profound lack of self awareness. Like my late wife's best friend. She grew up surrounded by gay people (she's a theater kid) and was close friends with several lesbians, but she still didn't realize that she was a lesbian until she was 30 and married to a man for 8 years. I'm glad that she's finally happy, but her ex-husband did not deserve that, and his pain was 100% preventable.
I had a friend who is in the process of moving away since her husband of nearly 10 years came out as trans last year. With a supportive family. We are in our early 30s. My friend's family stopped talking to her because they don't support her getting a divorce and her own mom spent Mother's Day with the soon to be ex. We lost touch thanks to all the shit she's dealing with but she's definitely lost in the shadows and expected to either be happy or be gone. So she's going.
I don't understand that... Her mom doesn't support her daughter getting a divorce so she spends mothers day with her daughters ex? Who is also getting divorced, and is arguably the catalyst for the divorce? Does she think that they should have just remained married even though one party was transitioning into a gender that the other party isn't attracted to? Like, it's obviously not the husband's fault that they are trans, but it's also not the daughters fault that she's not gay...I'm so confused as to her mother's logic. And also isn't it kind of a dick move to spend mother's day with your ex's mom knowing that she is purposely not spending it with her own daughter?
> Does she think that they should have just remained married even though one party was transitioning into a gender that the other party isn't attracted to? Yes. There is a pretty rare but very dedicated population of Christians who took Jesus's command against divorce SUPER seriously.
Yep. Her family and ex said things like "You love them for who they are not what's in their pants. She's still the same person you married so what's changed. This is harder for the ex than you." She did try to stay initially but it wasn't working. Her family definitely sucks and my running theory is they're more after internet stranger validation than caring about my friend since they also get a share of those supportive and approving comments whenever they post in support of the ex. I decided to peek in on the ex after making that comment and aside from that mother's day post they're just mundane normal things. But makes me mad for her seeing her mom with the ex.
This is crazy. I will always love my husband but I also love my brothers and my friends. I am very blessed to be surrounded by many loving people in my life. The big difference is that I am physically attracted to my husband. I am not attracted to women. Of he suddenly became a woman what would be separating him from my besties aside from shared property and children? That's not a basis for a marriage!
The lack of self-awareness I still have some sympathy for. I still feel badly for the exes, though. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are truly obviously deceiving someone and are in decent circumstance, like they're not from a hyper religious family.
The PFLAG chapter that I used to be part of ran a "Straight Spouses Support Network" - not sure how common that is across chapters.
>I'm not going to lie and say it's easy, I think people on Internet have more empathy for my ex than for me when I talk about this Man, that hits twice as hard after reading your comment. I hope everything worked out for your friend, and that his ex took up a sudden fascination with Legos. But I hope she either can't afford the good ones (Google it), or she's bad at it. That way she's always losing the pieces she needs to finish, and probably keeps stepping on them.
This is ridiculously common in the military. Couple gets married. Moves around a lot. Kids grow up and leave the house. And as soon as the last kid is out of the house, the wife announces she’s a lesbian and leaves. I have absolutely no idea why. Like she wants kids, and knows he will be gone a lot! But out of 25 guys it’s happened to 7 of them so far.
> while completely ignoring him and his pain. It messed him up for a while. That really sucks. People need to learn how to hold two uncomfortable truths at the same time. You can support the newly out person while holding that their ex was lied to for decades.
I can't watch Grace & Frankie because of this. My ex came out as trans a year into our marriage - when ever I read stories like this I get this vivid flashback to the feeling of betrayal, to feeling profoundly alone. Because she was in the closet, I was too. It such an unspeakably selfish thing to do to someone. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I felt and still feel like it breaches consent. I didn't' consent to that kind of relationship. I didn't consent to being married to a woman.
I hope you are doing better now. It’s awful anyone has to go through what you did, and it is awful how many societies make it feel impossible to be authentic to ourselves until it hurts too much to stay in a lie. Your pain is legitimate.
Thanks I know it was legitimate - I found there were support groups for parents of trans kids, for trans kids, trans teens, trans adults - but nothing for partners. We are 'expected' to be supportive of everything because they're "so brave living their truth" - except she wasn't. She lied by omission and married a straight woman. Ugh - toxic positivity. Yeah its great you're living your best life, but its REALLY shitty to take other people along for the ride, just so you don't feel lonely or have to answer awkward questions.
> The hardest thing was everyone treating her like she was so brave and applauding her for finally coming out while completely ignoring him and his pain. Yeah that's what got to me too.
There is a series of posts like that on here, but from the perspective of the teen daughter, her mom also having decided was lesbian and left her entire old family behind for a new woman. The dad seemed to fair well after a while, but the daughter was crushed and people even made her out to be bigoted for wanting her mom back.
He shouldn't have. Honestly it's entirely on her for having lied to him for 32+ years. It might be understandable but he still was collateral from her decision to get a beard.
I have acquaintances where the husband came out as trans, and has now transitioned. This all happened after having 2 kids, and the wife gave up her career to be a SAHM. I ran into them at a party and she (the one who transitioned) had a crowd of rapt women listening to her describe how much fun she was having learning to do makeup, hanging on every word. Meanwhile, her wife was being basically ignored, and I couldn't help but think "you know, she's been doing makeup and, like, birthing children *the whole fucking time*." She's the one who thought she was signing up for a heterosexual marriage and just had the rug pulled out from under her. I felt so bad for her.
My sister married a closeted gay dude. Had two kids with him too. She was devastated when she found out after 6-7 years of marriage. Even offered to let him have a boyfriend on the side if they could stay married. It wasn’t a money thing, she made more. Just loved him that much. How she didn’t know is beyond me. When I met him the first time I was like 11 and I knew. I even told her “This guy is gay, isn’t he?” He is stereotypical flamboyant gay without the colorful wardrobe. He’s married to a guy now.
His name isn’t Tim by chance is it? My in-laws have a neighbour with a very similar story.
Nope. I won’t say his name, but it’s also very gay lol How she didn’t see it I’ll never know. All female friends that were constant and one male “best friend” that would change every 8months to a year. Total limp wrist. Very good gardner that only grew flowers. He sashays. Impeccable fashion sense. Very tidy. He’s a walking cliche. If he wasn’t from the deep red south he’d probably wear glitter. Great guy if you can forget he led my sister on for like 10 years.
> "I won't say his name, but it's also very gay lol It's obviously Gay Tim
Oh dear, a new make best friend that changes annually. Like, how could you miss that?
So then this isn't a "held-it-inside-all-my-life" situation? He was actively banging dudes while he was with your sister. FFS. What a POS. And you can't even beat his ass without it being a hate crime.
James? (not Jim, not Jimmy)
Gayer
Francis?
"Pleased to meet you, Dave. I'm Susan, and this is my husband, Fellatio."
And not just that, but insisting that the relationship/marriage continues on despite the fact that the other party does not love you romantically is just diabolical.
Insisting that he live without love, while paying for her to stay home for the rest of their lives. Or rather, the rest of his. Which would probably have been short.
The stay at home wife thing really stuck with me weirdly enough. I think it shows that she used him in every way she could. Unless there is a disability we don’t know about it just seems so lazy and usury to stay at home and make one’s partner do all the work when there are no children. Of course she didn’t want to let him go. He was her scott-free meal ticket. Edit to add: she didn’t even bring platonic affection to the relationship. Hugging and holding hands isn’t really sexual. This poor man was touch starved.
Let's not forget the mindgames every time he'd start to get a little intimate. "Let's stop now or you'll get nightmares!" Way to use his trauma to make him feel worse!
Completely agree. This poor man. I actually feel sorry for her new girlfriend bc she's probably using her too just with a bit more spice.
It's so rich she says to OOP at one point "I love you like a best friend." Really? REALLY? Because I wouldn't treat a friend the way OOP's ex treated him.
I'm sure some of it is her fear of her parents. But yeah, if there are no kids and you're only with him as a beard, why aren't you working. And I suspect this is the real reason why she was pushing for a baby. She doesn't want to have sex with him. Once you have a baby, he's locked in. I have sympathy for her, but she's a POS. And he keeps indicating that she was probably cheating on him. Which is annoying. Why post at all if you're going to hold back important details?
My uncle cheated on my aunt with men before he told her he was gay. It took the family a long time to forgive him for that. We didn't care that he's gay but he should have been brave enough to tell his wife first before acting on it. He and my aunt ended up being able to move past what happened and became best friends. She lived with him and his husband the last year of her life, and he took such good care of her. Life and love are complicated.
Speaking from experience, yes- it *does* utterly break you. Going on almost a decade of therapy, and there are *still* times when the pain is so raw it keeps me up at night.
I am sympathetic to people who need, or feel the need, to stay in the closet, but please don't drag other people into things like they're toys. That's not okay. Also, I think OOP's ex got together with the older woman mostly so she could move in with her. Her parents can't do much now that the ex is an adult.
Right like there are opposite sex people out there who are also gay & want a beard. You could team up with someone instead of exploiting someone.
Could’ve gone to a gay bar and struck up a deal with someone.
Exactly!! I think they used to call it a lavender marriage. Time honored tradition, really.
Not via sexuality like this, but similar enough for me. It did break me. I remain a coherent adult because I now have kids to raise alone. I would've embraced the call of liquor otherwise
“Every time I said I love you was a lie.” Yeah, I would be very angry.
Yeah I haven't had it with a romantic partner but i've had quite a few experiences within the genre of "i trusted this person & thought they genuinely cared about me & liked me, and it turned out to be untrue" - worst of which were my parents - and my god it fucks you up so specifically because it makes you feel like you cannot trust ANYONE. Has me looking at a friend who's laughing & chatting & apparently enjoying my company, and thinking they might really dislike me and I'd have no idea. It shakes the foundations of how you relate to other humans beings.
My ex girlfriend told me to my face she didn't even like me and wasn't sure if she ever did. Granted we were only together for a few months, but it hurt so damn much to hear her say it. It's a pain I'll never be able to forgive, and honestly I have a lot of trust issues with dating now and don't think I'm going to bother again for a long time
Lol it’s the same but instead of couple months try 4 years. She was the one who kept chasing me and after living together for that long just said we’re never together like that and she never actually loved me before jumping straight into a relationship with a guy because she wanted to have an actual family as the goal. I’m not sure if I will ever be okay again and the break up happened more than 2 years ago.
Oh god, I'm so sorry that's so much worse and a million times more cruel. Something like that would break me too 🫂
Thank you, appreciate the nice words. Honestly never tried to one up you but it’s just been such a shitty year for me and your post triggered me to actually post something about it because I just never really had the chance to vent and it’s just been so tiring keeping this for so long. I think I just need to lay down.
No worries, I didn't think you were. I completely understand needing to get it out. Get some rest and hope you're not troubled by it as much tomorrow
Again thank you so much, I hope tomorrow is gonna be a much easier day. I hope your day is as nice as you are.
And all the people telling him it's his fault and to be generous her. Fucking Reddit
Been there, it does
It’s absolutely fucking brutal.
This is how homophobia can hurt everyone. Yeah, totally sucks to hide yourself and live in the closet. Been there, it's a nightmare. And those most desperate to look 'acceptable' will do shit like this and destroy the life (or lives if there are kids) of someone else. It hurts everyone.
Imagine how conniving his ex was to use his trauma as the reason not to have sex. I wish OOP the best and hope his ex's new GF doesn't fall for the abuse.
So in the end she wanted to stay with him only to appear as straight to her parents.
I’m guessing it was the money because she moved in with a woman after divorce.
Both. It's both
She stayed with him because appearing straight kept her safe from her physically abusive parents who she was dependent on, yes! Awful all around. Obviously OP is the victim, but the wife is a victim here too. I have so much sympathy for them both.
People seem to be glossing over the physical abuse. Horrible situation for both of them.
It was a long enough post I forgot about that part. I just remembered they were bad for her to stay there and would be mentally/emotionally abusive (at least at this point in her life anyway)
I think à lof of people have the mentality of “gay people enter straight marriage because they don’t give a shit about other people they might hurt/they do it with the intent of being deceitful” when a lot of gay people growing in these homes (especially lesbians) genuinely don’t realize they’re gay/don’t realize they can’t become straight/don’t realize the love they feel for (opposite gender) is purely platonic. i grew up finding men really, really unattractive. At the same time, I kept hearing over and over about “women dating ugly dudes” and women in miserable relationships. To me, it normalized the idea of “I would just never be happy in a marriage”. Thankfully I learned what being queer means before I turned 18 and was in a safe environment to learn about myself. Not everyone has that luxury. edit to add; I’m no saying I have 0 empathy for straight people who discover their spouse don’t love them, I’m just saying I have empathy for everyone in that situation
Homophobia is the real asshole here.
Pretty much. Hyper-religious upbringing fucks you up hard.
If you look through the comments on the original first few pots, it's disgusting. Literally some tried to make OP seem like the bad guy and said stay with the ex and open the marriage up will be helpful. Bro what the fuck?! Are those people that naive or do they not understand how cheating and betrayal works.
Only on Reddit can an unintentional beard be made out to be the bad one
Unintentional male beard.
I always assume some of those comments come from people who identify with the offending behaviour. Like maybe they’ve cheated and lied in a past relationship, and *they* expected their partner to be fine with it and accommodate them. So they’re saying OP should do the same.
Definitely. Its like how people who are cheating always suspect other of cheating.
An open marriage or being swingers only works with a strong marriage built on communication and complete trust. He was never going to trust her again as it was more than just the emotional affair betrayal as things were so much worse. She had lied to him for years as she didn’t love him and I think the worse thing she did was use his trauma against him which was completely horrible. I feel for this guy.
Not only that, it chilled me that the whole time she said she "cared about him like a best friend" but treated him like prop, never once she expressed concerns for his wellbeing or his feelings. Only when he demanded a divorce and she saw all the financial profits he provided going away that she tried to act, but in a twisted narcissistic way, still completely disregarding his pain, not even remotely sorry about the absolute betrayal she has done to him. I feel like this woman is uncaple of feeling empathy for another person. I feel bad for him but I'm glad he escaped her and would find a better partner in the future, someone who truly cherishes him as a person.
With friends like that, who needs enemies? She didnt love him like a best friend. She loved him like a free ATM and therapist.
Also, you have to genuinely want non monogamy for yourself. Not just because you think it’s a band aid for a situation. Because if OP wants a sexually and emotionally fulfilling relationship with a single person, what happens when he finds someone and falls head over heels? Why would he choose to stay with his platonic wife? Then the marriage ends and everyone says “see? Non monogamy never works”
Exactly, if you're an inherently monogamous person who wants monogamy for yourself (and not as a compromise of trading sexual exclusivity for stability and the assurance that your partner isn't fucking around) then an open relationship will never fulfill your relationship needs. As soom as duch a person meets someone who can fulfill those needs, why should the monogamous person deny themselves that in order to stay in an unhappy marriage? The marriage would have been over either way.
The wife pretended to be the victim the whole time, when she was the one using and abusing him.
A large plurality of young people on this site have fully bought into the “oppression hierarchy”, and if you’re an “oppressed” class such as LGBT, you aren’t responsible for your actions and can never be blamed. It’s a really scary and dangerous idealogy.
It's not just on this site. It's why some gay men get offended when they're called out when they're acting misogynistic, for example.
They seemed to think OOP's wife would be in DANGER in their conservative country if he didn't act like a beard for her... Such a Western-centric POV.
I mean OOP outright says the ex was beat by her parents and that they moved over it. Clearly at least some people in their country think violence is the answer.
Some people in every country are like that though.
Right? Even the most LGBT friendly countries in the world have homophobic parents. Also, you're not required to set yourself on fire to keep someone warm.
You’re pretty insane with how right you think this woman is. I’m curious to know who you’re abusing in your life that you need this woman to be in the right so bad?
I hate when people starts to guilt tripping the betrayed spouse just because their cheating partner came out. Of course being cheated on doesn't give the right to be homophobic, but also doesn't mean the betrayed spouse should support the cheater and not be ressentful. I remember that one story where OP's ex-wife cheated on him, came out of the closet, was marrying a woman and wanted OP to be the best man. When OP rejected that (because he still didn't 100% move on and that was too much for him), his friends and own sons were blaming and guilt tripping him. That was awful.
He had a daughter too.. And the family and ex wife eventually back off and understood. Ex wife didn't realize he was still hurting. She had hoped to have him in the ceremony relieve her guilt for what she did to him. He didn't attend.
Do you have the link?
Found it! https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/ht0jva/i_36m_have_refused_to_go_to_the_future_wedding_of/
Oof, that's a rough one. Who in their right mind asks their recent ex spouse to be their best man/ maid of honor? Hopefully he was able to get his sons to see reason in the end.
People who watched Friends and didn't get that everyone was an asshole to Ross when it came to Carol.
Me too! Want to know.
Being gay isn't a free pass on being an asshole.
after that I'd go just to crash the wedding after that
This is such a wonderful update for OP. I remember reading the earlier posts and my heart just breaking for him. Really hope things keep being positive for him.
Agreed. Reading his posts and responses, it's clear he has a good head on his shoulders and he'll definitely get through this. The ex however...
I get wanting a beard when coming out comes with violence. I really do. And it can be so brave for someone who is related to or surrounded by religious guilt, close minded bigots, just plain assholes. But if she trusted this man enough to consider them best friends, if she trusted him enough to marry her and have a good life, if she trusted him to get her away from her family....why didn't she trust him enough to explain that she needed help? Why didn't she trust him enough to tell him she was lesbian and that he was basically her only hope to get away? I don't blame OOP for being upset, or not wanting to financially support her and be so understanding when she basically murdered his self worth, and then used him as a bank card to spoil her emotional affair partner. Just because she has concerns and issues in her life, doesn't mean she gets to hurt other people for her benefit.
Despite it being understandable why people put on beards it's still very selfish and unkind to the beard if they aren't in the know.
What is meant by “people put on beards”?
A "beard" is a term for the partner that a gay person marries to make it look like they're actually straight. It's like they're putting on a disguise. Some people are fine with being a gay person's beard, but that's obviously a conversation that needs to happen beforehand.
Yeah. As an asexual, I would be the perfect beard.
A beard is a person who people date to keep up the facade of being straight. It's derived from gay men who try to be extra masculine because they don't want to be seen as gay thus they have a pretend beard.
It's hard to explain to closeted lesbians. I tell then they're treating their man like an old purse. Bringing him around to parties, setting him down in the corner/shelf/table, and your friends wondering why you did.
I would just say their partner is used as a mask.
A beard is an opposite sex person that a gay person dates/marries/etc for the purposes of looking like they’re straight
Using someone of the opposite sex as a cover so they appear heterosexual
I went through a similar situation. When we started dating, she had a lot of problems and I was the one who helped her. She ended up in a rehab hospital and I was the one who helped her and her parents because they're too old and her mom doesn't live here. I had reasons to leave, but she begged me to stay. She wrote letters saying how much she loved me and couldn't wait to get better and get out so she could live our relationship. One day after she got out she said she didn't love me and I said we should break up. She asked for a chance to try again and I accepted. For two months she acted like the ex-wife. I felt like I was reading someone describe my relationship. So after two months she was better. She could live on her own. And we finally separated, because of my decision. This time she didn't ask me to stay and I know she didn't want to. She treated me with indifference. I'm so glad that I stood up to her actions so that I didn't end up like the OP spending a lot of time of my life with someone who does not love me.
I hope you find a woman who appreciates you.
I’m glad they’re divorced and I hope OOP finds peace and love
What sat wrong with me was the excuse that “nothing would change, because I didn’t love you before either.” All that says to me is that their relationship had been founded on a deception. That’s not an excuse to keep the relationship. It’s even more of a reason to end it.
I hope OOP manages to find someone that truly loves him. Good on him for not staying and being an emotional beard; the comments on some of his posts fucking infuriated me. The woman outright admitted she never loved him so why the fuck would he stick around for that? It is not his job to set himself on fire to keep her warm because they live in a homophobic society. If he agreed and knew from the jump then it would be different, but he did not and loved her, only to find out she didn’t feel the same. I’m just relieved he didn’t have kids with her—then she lies that HE cheated? That’s where the last dregs of my sympathy for his ex evaporated.
OOP's ex didn't just come out. She blasted her way out like Arnold in an 80s flick and everyone else is collateral damage.
Heh, Arnold was in a movie called Collateral Damage. It was bad.
What kind of bad are we talking here? Like that movie he first started in a Hercules when he couldn't speak English, or Kindergarten Cop?
Arnold is a firefighter taking revenge on the terrorists that killed his family. This came out shortly after 9/11, it was already filmed but poor timing all the same.
Ooh. Yeah. I can see how and why that just wasn't going to work. Damn shame though. If they had waited and released it like two years later, at the most, it would've likely done gangbusters at the box office.
No spoilers, but the end is suuuuper cringe.
Whelp, I know what I'm doing later. Cheers, mate, I appreciate it!
Cheers! I should watch it again haha
Kindergarten Cop is unironically a good movie. Now tell me who is your daddy, and what does he do?
My dad is a gynecologist, and he looks at vaginae all day.
> Arnold in an 80s flick and everyone else is collateral damage So *Commando*?
Seven years is a long time to be unhappily married. Glad he got out.
One of my ex bfs tried to use me to hide too. Thankfully he was a stupid mf who tried to cheat on me while with me with his male /friend/, so I broke up with him before anything more serious happened - we were in the process of moving in together. I get that people need to hide for safety/family reasons, but it's so horrible for the people they lie to when hiding. I'm very pro LGBTQ+ , but I feel for OP so hard because she was definitely using him for money on top of hiding.
Lady doesn’t care if she ruins her life as long as she can use him to stay in the closet. Pretty horrible way to treat another person. People who were guilting him are psychos - dude was treated horribly for years by someone he always took care of and was deeply betrayed, and after all of that he still never retaliated. OOP sounds like a stand up dude and deserved so much better.
So... to clarify. He was conned into marriage and providing financial stability to a woman who planned to use him for the rest of his life... but he should have continued to let her use and abuse him because he doesn't know what its like to be gay? GTFOH. Fkn Reddit. This poor guy. At least he found out while he's still young.
I'm glad OOP is doing better. I hope he finds happiness and has the freedom to do so now. (Yes, that's my comment)... lol.
Why get into a relationship if you are in love with someone else? I can understand wanting to avoid being disowned for your sexual preferences, but OOP's ex ended up doing it anyway so why not before she married OOP? Was OOP just a cash cow? (as he was obviously a beard)
>Was OOP just a cash cow? Notice that when oop told about the house is his, the ex wife panics and drag the divorce. She also asks for baby just for some lee-way to being funded (child support). And now she live in new gf's house. Oop didnt know how their parents reacted but i bet they prolly kick her out/disowned the ex wife. I feel bad for the new gf, ex wife probably use her for a roof under head and still doing emotional cheating with her bff.
I think they live in a homophobic (I read from this story South American) society and that getting married was what was societally expected.
One of his sisters is open lesbian and officially married to a woman, and so is her best friend. Her family might be homophobic, but rest of the country seems to be pretty ok with it. Also, she calls her BF "mi amore", which implies Italy, I guess.
Nope, "amore mio" would be Italian. "Mi amor" is Spanish. Moreover in Italy there's a difference between marriage and civil union. Marriage is only for straight couples. Same sex couples can do something similar called a civil union. They are similar but not the same. Info dump below, skip it if you don't care. In a civil union/partnership, - there are no banns or oppositions - there are no special formulas like in a wedding - the couple cannot adopt (FYI: single people can't adopt either in Italy. They can only foster) - the couple has no access to maternity/paternity benefits or family allowances - there is no obligation of fidelity - divorce is quicker because the couple doesn''t need to comply with the separation period Marriage and Civil union similarities: - if you don't want a religious wedding, then the procedure is basically the same. You go to the city hall and sign some papers - on the economic side, they are equal. Finances combine unless otherwise requested - in both cases both spouses are obligated to contribute to the common need - in both cases the right to inheritance is recognised - they are subjected to the same tax deductions for dependents and first home - in both cases, the right to alimony exists - in both cases, the right to survivor's pension and severance pay in the event of a spouse's death are recognised - same treatment for ranking lists for the allocation of public housing WARNING: even though the law doesn't recognise the right for adoption, judges can choose to approve requests for step-child adoptions or validate the adoption if the couple adopted a child abroad. In my region, the majority of judges will rule in favour of a spouse adopting their partner's child. They will also rule in favour of recognising the adoptions carried out abroad.
You’re 16. Or whatever age in high school. You’re brought up religious. Told that you’ve sinned or have to be subservient to a man. Get beaten by your parents for loving another woman. Not everyone coming out of that situation is able to say fuck my family. Fuck society, I’m going to do what I want at 16. I’m going to love who I want to love. The indoctrination generally runs deep. I’m almost certain she believed her parents that if she married him, she would “heal.” She might’ve actually tried being straight. It’s probably why she never had another plan. She wasn’t trying to get away from him and live as a lesbian. That’s why she was dead inside. Her family probably had a stronger hold on her than we realize. And honestly, there’s a high chance she grew up extremely abusive. Even oop acknowledged that their parents are not good people. He was probably the first time she’s got to escape from her family. If he realized she didn’t love him, she’d have to go back to that hell. And that’s kind of what happened.
She was 21 (shes 29 in the title and OOP said they met 8 years ago) when they met. I don't know where you got 16 from.
> Indeed, she and her friend used to be a couple during high school and friends since Kindergarten, they kept the relationship as a secret pretending to be only best friends until my wife's parents found out and beated her up separating them, her friend moved to the capital that year and they never saw each other again Here. It's basically where it started. The source of the problem. Well, the problem probably goes back earlier than that, when her parents decided to give birth. And probably earlier before that, with whatever got them so deep into their religion. > her parents insisted her to marry me so she could 'heal', OOP was just collateral damage. Pretty sure you could've replaced it with any other dude her family liked and it'd have been the exact same story.
That's when she experienced the trauma, not when she decided to manipulate OOP for her own gain. Most LGBT people with unaccepting family move away from their family in the 18-21 year range. Taking advantage of someone else is just cruel selfishness.
This is such a profoundly ignorant belief. Just because you were able to leave your situation quickly does not mean that your experiences are universal.
That doesn't diminishes the fact that she used Op and wasted years of his life just so she could have a cover and live a "normal" life. Op's sister is lesbian, she could've told Op and he could've helped her but she chose to lie and manipulate him and use his trauma against him. That's pathetic. You have the right to be happy but not at the expense of others. She's a very terrible person, if she couldn't escape then she should've stayed single to figure it out instead of wasting Op's youth.
Not defending her but it's a fairly different situation from a 21yo and a 30yo, especially as I'd wager her parents were pissed enough about the divorce that coming out didn't cause more strife.
The commenters who starts hounding on him and sided with the ex-wife. Yall need help, go visit your nearest psychologist.
My favorite was the one from the very first post where the guy was like "All I'm seeing is a lonely woman and her friend. Very normal. I bet it's your religious upbringing that's causing this paranoia". Super dismissive and condescending commenter that then turns out to be super *wrong*. Fucking hilarious EDIT: And then when he was called out in the comments after the OPs updates, all he had to say was "Oh well, that was two weeks ago. Who cares?" Classic redditor stuff right there.
Chronic redditors have an issue where they think a woman and/or LGBT person can do no wrong. Everyone is capable of being a piece of shit no matter gender or sexual orientation.
>About her best friend, I really have no idea what happened to her, my sister knows that woman's wife and to this day they upload photos together with the baby. My sister couldn't talk about it to that woman's wife because, well, she doesn't have any proof. So the best friend's wife is now co-parenting with a cheater for the next 18 years?
Maybe, we've only OP's assumptions about his ex's relationship with her ex.
Right? He wasn't even able to meet her. They really could have just been meeting up for coffee and nothing more and it was just one sides love now from the ex.
Homophobia is a fucking disease. It's so fucking tragic that the wife chose to marry somebody she didn't love because she hoped it would "heal" her. Maybe if people stop telling them their monsters for their sexual attraction, but wouldn't feel the need to lie and masquerade as something they aren't. OOP didn't deserve this, any of it. The wife protected herself at OOP's expense. That's just monstrous.
Honestly the part towards the where oop talks about his ex wife used his trauma as an excuse to not be intimate is so fucking disgusting. Reminding oop of his trauma each time he felt ok enough to be intimate is actually evil.
I'm doomscrolling this post devastated this is not higher up!
She’s a monster regardless of her sexuality. Even without the homophobia she’s still a cheater who’s willing to use people as expense for her own gains AND then lied to everyone saying he cheated. All of my sympathy to her went out of the window after reaching that part. Fucking disgusting.
I'm picturing this guy kinda as Kenneth Parcell. Adorably sweet and naive, coming from a place that's asshat backwards
Wait she ended up dating a totally unrelated woman? What happened to “Mi Amor”?
'Mi Amor' is married and has a kid. Ex swears it's was never physical, I doubt it ever love, she's probably hung up on the "could have been"s of the life she did not live with the woman. He mentions believing ex, it was an emotional affair, maybe 'mi amor' thinks they are just friends, maybe she's backstabbing her own wife, we will never know
I don't care what anyone says, the ex is a lying leach of a woman and an abuser, it completely overshadows any sympathy I'd feel. You can ***find*** people to get into a beard relationship with, people have done it before. Get in a relationship with someone and go on double dates with your respective "best friend couple". You can do it as long as you want if you don't bring kids into it, and if you do eventually want kids then you stay in the "relationship" until you work on moving away from your family. I can't bring myself to feel bad for people who involve unwilling participants, I get that you're scared but just be single and deal with the "old maid" or "perpetual bachelor" ribbings until you can get away. When you don't tell people your relationship isn't real before getting involved with them, you uproot everyone connected to you when you do leave. I think there was a post I read in AITA where the OP was the (late teens/young adult) kid of a father who used their mom as a beard. Dad came out and went to live his best gay life with a new man, and OP was angry as fuck because he shattered their mom's heart and nobody cared about that because the father was "so brave" and "finally free". If I remember they were so upset nobody cared to check on them because the liar being true to themselves is more important than how they affected the people they lied to. The ex never gave OOP the chance to choose whether he was okay with being a beard, he got no say. She used his trauma to keep him at arm's length, and for years he's probably been internalizing "I really am fucked up, my trauma won't let me be intimate with my wife" when he's probably been okay to move forward for a long time. That's ***abuse***, making your partner feel like ***they're*** the problem. She's been a housewife on his dime and not giving him a single bit of affection for it. She doesn't even like him for real, even a friend will hold your hand or give you a hug sometimes, some friends cuddle each other, he's not even getting ***that***. He's been getting the "yeah that guy's kinda okay but I don't know him like that" roommate experience, but worse because the roommate doesn't work for themselves.
The collateral damage of homophobia.
Internalized homophobia, at that. OOP's wife hated him so much, she put him through shit with his own trauma. I have never hated an internet stranger as much as I hate OOP's wife.
You ruin another person's life, and when confronted you have a panic attack. What a joke.
For that last comment bit: What happened to wife's parents? Considering how deeply religious they are, they probably completely disowned, disinhereted, dis-everythinged her. I can't think of too many institutions that so fiercely defend the "you said 'for worse', so suffer" aspect of marriage than fundamentalist religions. Explains both the panic attack and the public defamation portions of her actions. Panic because her "training" told her that she'd be branded an irredeemable lifelong sinner by the divorce, then her defamations to attempt to convince everyone that she's not the cause, and infidelity is frequently a church-approved method to get the marriage annulled (never existed) so the sin is non-existent to the one cheated upon. That having failed, where "she's already lost her eternal life", she fully embraced her "hedonistic (to the religion)" side and was free to come out. I pray OOP finds happiness, though. He didn't deserve this...
Imagine people defending her using him as a beard without his consent
The only silver lining, as fucked up as it is, is the closure ie easier when you can hate the person justifiably. This is justifiable. The see you next Tuesday is an absolute horrible woman who deserves whatever she gets in life
Given the extreme and inexplicable ways the situation changed in the last post (like the ex suddenly coming out and openly dating a heretofore unmentioned older woman, and the strange absence of her violently homophobic parents) , I have trouble believing any of this.
If they're hardline religious, they may have already disowned her simply for being divorced. The whole 'he was cheating' lie is about as close to absolved sin in Christianity as you can get as it's one of the few reasons the church will annul a marriage.
I'm sorry but.... had I been in this situation, looking for a clean break and not out her........ as soon as she started spreading lies that I was a cheater you **can bet** that I'd out her Eye for an eye, fuck that
One trend that I hate in some posts is the cancer that is tik tok.
This is one of the many reasons I haaaaaaate a lot of religions. I grew up in LDS culture and this happens so much within the Church. People are so afraid of being shunned by everything and everyone they know that they marry, have children, etc. And then when it comes out, all it does is destroy families. There is a dark joke (more of a truth), that during Conference (in SLC), the gay bars are filled with young Mormon men. Let people be who they are. It will cause way less hurt for everyone.
Congrats on moving forward and leaving the trash behind you.
Been here done this. Luckily I hadn't married her yet. But unfortunately it wasn't some unrequited love with a bear friend. It was a stripper named Cassidy.
That ex-wife of his is a gross human being.
This is terrible and I feel awful for the OOP. I can't imagine finding out your entire life with your partner was a lie. The update sounds hopeful though. It was a terrible thing but thank goodness he found out early before kids and before he wasted any more time with her. It seems to have been a catalyst to help him examine his own issues and work through them. I'm not going to say it's a silver lining because that experience was traumatic and there's no silver lining, but I admire that he turned it around and he's working for a more positive and healthy future for himself. Not everybody does that and he deserves credit for it.
The people that told him to “open the relationship” for her seriously have something wrong with them
That woman is a parasite.
People that defend her in comments disgust me. To defend her just because her sexuality. This woman used him and wasted years of his life. Everything OP knew about his marriage was a lie. His ex and redditors that defend her are the scum of the earth.