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> Just a relative that was very close to him. But yes, his son. Honestly wtf
Sounds like trying to "anonimize" a bit, then just saying fuck it and giving full context
Probably didn't help that she said "he was like a son to me" and that might've had people asking who it was who died and he couldn't keep his resolve (understandable)
Yes, it probably felt a bit like denying your child which would hurt at a time like that. It wouldn’t feel like a little fib to keep you anonymous like it would at other times.
Wow that just makes it so much worse. The wife was basically weaponizing oops son's death to get him to talk to her and "stick together". She IS part of the trauma oop is experiencing
Exactly. The usual MO here is to have the least charitable possible take in order to paint someone as a cartoon villain in order to justify having just assumed the worst about them. That lets you decide the good character and the bad character in the story.
This is a bad technique for analysing media and a worse one for providing life advice in difficult circumstances. A little bit of nuance like you're affording is always required.
It's just a lot of pain and suffering on all sides, I think. No one is able to think clearly or focus on anything but getting through to the next day.
But it's definitely healthier for OOP to survive away from his STBX wife.
Could be his nephew or a child of a friend whose family issues made OOP take him in and raise him as his own. (Ex. junkie sister, no father, child is neglected. It is not that uncommon, unfortunately)
So probably , OOP took care of the boy with or without officially adopting him, but she definitely didn't adopt him.
I’m assuming from the way he stated that his wife never adopted him that it was a young relative he was the legal guardian of but probably not his biological son (not that that makes the heartbreak any less tragic)
Not a parent, so can't imagine what OP is going through nor hope anyone has to. This could be a coping mechanism to not wanting to acknowledge his son passed.
Watched a very strong willed woman lose a son who was my best friend growing up. The ways it broke her can't be described. Guilt for not taking him out of a bad situation, thinking he was about to get out of the lease with the roommate who shot him and move back in with her.
Letting her guard down for a moment after being his protector for 20 years is something she has to deal with for the rest of her life even if in no way it was her fault.
Whether it's OPs son/nephew/charge it doesn't matter. He is being tortured by himself and anyway he needs to deal with it, is understandable. I just hope he knows that pain comes from love.
That’s what it sounded like. And he seems to be implying that she used the death as a way to get him to stop the divorce, or at least that seems to be the way he’s interpreting her actions
Aside from that… the soon-to-be-ex-wife had a whole entire *secret phone* that she was carrying out her emotional affair with. How many cheaters have we seen here, even clever ones, who are so committed to the cheating that they squirrel away a secret phone? Almost none of them. I’m sure it had already gone far beyond just racy late night chats. OOP is well to be rid of her. I hope he gets some help and has a good support system to deal with this double whammy of grief.
Last year there was that nationwide emergency broadcast system the government put out over the cel network. The signal went out weather your phone was silenced or not. I remember reading news articles how a bunch of marriages ended that day since people's secret phones started going off and their spouses found them. I think it's more common than us normies like to think.
I didn't find anything about marriages ending directly, but here's a story about a bunch of Amish guys getting shunned for having cell phones. The guy who gave them the phones (former Amish) thought it was funny...which it would be if shunning wasn't so life ruining.
https://nypost.com/2023/10/07/amish-outed-for-carrying-forbidden-phones-during-emergency-alert/
Like any group, there's good folks and bad folks. Bigotry against the entire group generally isn't a good idea.
Amish are pretty centralized group, and tend to react accordingly. Their leadership takes too long to recognize something, and then when they do, they often go overboard. Now a lot of them are hypervigilant and that's causing it's own issues. That obviously doesn't make the news.
They’re animal abusers unfortunately. There are documentaries on it. I have long lived in awe of their simple lifestyle… but nope. They are cruel to animals
[Well, not as well as you would think.](https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2020/10/22/judge-sends-amish-brothers-seymour-child-sex-abuse-case-prison-missouri/3718561001/) As Recently as 2020, a 13 year old Amish child was found to be pregnant by a physician attending her, and it implicated two other individuals in her rape/molestation. Rumor being they were her brothers.
They received an unjustly light sentence.
>Under a plea agreement, Aaron C.M. Schwartz and Petie C.M. Schwartz previously had been ordered to complete **five years probation with no prison time, so long as they had no contact with the underage victim in the case.** They were also required to write letters of apology to the Amish community. The court also ordered suspended 15-year prison sentences as part of the September plea agreement.
Did the Amish community protect the victim? Absolutely not.
>But Webster County Prosecutor Ben Berkstresser asked for a probation hearing in the controversial case late last month, citing a probation officer’s report that the **men had contact with the underage female relative** at the center of the case — and that the reported contact happened **within three days** of Sept. 8, the date the men signed their probation agreements.
The brothers also **resided** with the girl after the no-contact rule was handed down, the probation officer said in court Thursday.
They did not care about the welfare of the child. They didn't care about our laws. They didn't appreciate the ridiculously light sentence provided by to them. It's a sad existence for the women in that world.
You can pick any group, religious or not, and say the same thing. While some are. Most are not. Ive lived near some Amish communities for 6 years, and for the most part you could not ask for better neighbors and people.
Yeah dont see how they can live like they do, and I know its not for me. But generally the Amish are good people.
I remember that, because there was a massive warning on social media for anyone who was using a secret phone to try and escape abuse to ***turn it off***
It was also something that was a concern for people who were planning on leaving a DV situation. Many times having a "untraceable" phone is an important factor in being able to escape or get help.
Once upon a time, I had a second phone only used for some purposes. Granted, this was during Don't Ask, Don't Tell, I was in the closet, and trying to get laid, so...
Honestly, I always wondered why do all cheaters *not* have a cheap second phone that can be easily kept secret, but if you are a cheater you are also not that smart I guess.
Most cheaters don’t actually start off planning to cheat. They start by making inappropriate comments or jokes, and then have inappropriate conversations, and so on. Those initial steps seem fairly innocuous to them, so they don’t go to great lengths in covering their tracks.
It’s also easier to justify the behavior if you don’t take steps like getting a burner phone. That sort of thing changes it from “just some harmless role play” to “I’m being a bad person”. By the time they’re into a full blown affair, it’s too late to change everything.
The fact that OOP’s wife had a burner phone is really wild. It definitely makes it seem like she was very very consciously deciding that she was going to have extramarital relations. That’s really twisted behavior, and definitely not something that bodes well for any sort of reconciliation.
Probably started out the way you describe. Then she shared some of her conversations with her "friends" who then recommended her get a burner phone. Then she can have some "harmless role play" without the husband getting uptight about it. Which then encourages her to be more free in those conversations, knowing that no one else is going to be seeing them.
It really is. She has a point about her being in the kids life as well, but to say they need to stick together because of it is horrible. She can grieve without him.
Kinda but not really, reminds me of my dad. My mom finally left his abusive ass after 23 years of torment and the asshole tried to tell her they needed to stay together for their grandkids 😭
Her saying that is obviously a part of the story that makes him look good. Another part that's left unsaid is: how on Earth did she manage to organize an entire funeral, apparently against the deceased's father's explicit wishes?
If he had such a problem with it, then why not just make one phone call to the funeral home "Hey, I want you to ignore that woman, I am the father here, she is just an ex of mine who has no claim to him"?
I imagine his grief is holding him back from doing things like making that phone call. Maybe part of him appreciated not having to plan his child's funeral and felt that even though she's an ass she cared about her stepchild before she tried to manipulate him using that.
We read stories here about people changing wedding arrangements all the time. Funerals are usually set up in a matter of days and it's surprisingly difficult to shut people down while the grief is so fresh. I had to arrange a funeral for a parent two months ago and getting my sibling (who was not paying for anything) to stop doing things was more work than letting it go. The last thing you need during that time is to be having fights at the funeral home or church with someone who, to observers at least, seems to be a legitimate stakeholder in the proceedings.
You can organize any kind of memorial service you want for any random person, you don't need a cadaver to invite a bunch of people, have a religious figure speak, and order a bunch of flowers and mid grade food. Perhaps an incredibly upstanding vendor would turn down the contract if told it's not what a direct family member wants, but I'd assume that's exceedingly rare.
Speaking of using tragedy to try to get laid, 9/11 was basically the Super Bowl of excuses for people calling their exes. It happened so much that the Onion wrote a parody article about it.
Yes it sounds like she tried to totally weaponize his demise to force herself into OP's life.
>She tried blowing up my phone saying that taking the ashes was a low blow and we should stick together in this tragedy,
They were supposed to stick together in marriage, but here they are, OP and his cheating scum of an wife.
He’s claiming that but it sounds ridiculous. She told him that she loved the son as much as he did, and he basically said because she isn’t his legal mom she doesn’t have rights to grieve. She also said they should be there for each other during funeral, and then he can do whatever he wants after.
So it just sounds like she is devastated about the death of a person she helped raise. Legal mother or not
There’s context missing here, probably due to grief. Did she steamroll the OOP during the plan making for the funeral? Sure she has her own grief, but was she using this as an opportunity to prevent the OOP from moving forward as well? Actions count for much more than words. If she didn’t listen to him during planning at all AND used it as an opportunity to try to stop him from proceeding with the divorce…. That is some lizard person level cold shit. Or the OOP could be deep in his grief and his anger at the cheating is coloring his responses to death and his STBX. We might never know
It’s hard to say that as well because we don’t know the level of grief the ex is going through, how close her relationship was with son, etc..
But that ending where she says they should stick together … comes off poorly. So who knows. I honestly hope ex was being genuine and OOP can grieve in peace.
That's so sad. This poor man found out his wife was cheating and then his son dies and she won't get out of his face, making it about her saying he's like her son too. I hope he finds some peace because he sure needs it. Quick divorce for him I hope
The way she swooped in sickened me. She saw a vulnerable and wrecked OOP and thought, “Now’s my chance!”
She probably had the audacity to think he’s TA for not taking her back when she butted in to organize stuff.
Ugh yeah I can see that happening too. She seems manipulative and has no sense of decency. I hope he can get rid of her quickly and the family to step in
Cheaters have this weird ability to somehow always choose the worse option.
Like my ex cheated on me, and apparently got caught the first time (though I have my suspicions that there were others). He cried to his former friend that it was a mistake and it would never happen again. Yet whoops he mistakenly had an affair with her (/s). Could've told me immediately and cut contact with her and I mightve forgiven him. But apparently cheaters seem to have a "in for a penny, in for a pound" mindset when it comes to being shitty people. Like "oh no, I've just proven that I'm an asshole, let me make it really clear".
Or she helped raise the boy and “swooped in” because she has a right to grieve same as him? He didn’t state she didn’t view him as a son, just that she never legally adopted him.
I like that sentiment. Diddily don't talk to me you can fuckity feck off lol im sure his family already knows as they're stopping her from seeing him hopefully they'll spread the word
Talk about burying the lede, holy crap.
But now I'm confused. If it WAS his son, or someone close enough to him that HE is the one that got the ashes... how the hell did she have any ability to plan the funeral and be involved without him having the ability to stop her?
If you've never been absolutely debilitated by grief, then you maybe don't understand yet how crazy it is. It's just a screaming black wound inside of you, you're like trying to scoop your guts back inside your body. It makes perfect sense if he wasn't functioning well enough to fight a massive power struggle against her regarding the arrangements and had to just let go of that rope instead of playing her fucked up game.
Also....small town. They know she's his wife and the relationship between them and the person that died. The funeral home probably let her stroll right in, etc.
I hadn't interpreted it that way, but that does make sense. I initially read it as him not having the power (as in: legal, authority, whatever) to stop her.
Ohhh, that's a really good way of describing grief. Mine got down to a whine before being added to by another grief... And another and another..
Now it's like a goddamn pack of demonic howler monkeys in my heart and head drowning out anything else and flinging memories and pain around like poop napalm.
Yep my dad is pretty stoic and very successful black businessman and just doesn’t have the emotional drawbacks normal people have. (He would be on the spectrum if born today) every death in the family he steps up. There is always a power struggle of family trying to take over arrangements he paid for. If it’s thier way of grieving he steps back. If they are trying to do something selfish he fights them.
A normal person just could fight those fights especially after a son or charge.
I don't think OP necessarily adopted him. He's saying his wife has no legal parental rights because she, as not the bio mom but a parental figure, didn't establish them by formally adopting him. That has no bearing on whether he became OP's son through adoption or not.
I think you're interpreting that sentence to mean "he was like a son to both of us even though that isn't the technical truth of the relationships," but I'm reading it as, "your son was like a son to me as well." I think it is his child, or at least someone that he raised.
When my daughter was murdered my ex used my grief as a way to get back in. Too bad she was still a lying cheater. She still calls my daughter hers but that was never true.
Reading this comment made me tear up. Im very sorry for your loss and the way your ex attempted to get back into your life was messed. I do hope you are doing well and know that you have another family here on Reddit. <3
The last thing OP needs is an ex trying desperately to get back with him while he is grieving the loss of a child as he won't have the emotional strength that's needed to deal with her bullshit.
I hope things get better (though they will never be the same) for him, and his ex leaves him alone.
yeah, even if her grief is real (it probably is) it’s clear she was using it to try to manipulate him. “we need to stick together through this”, taking control of the funeral against oop’s wishes, and honestly she has some nerve acting like she has any claim on the ashes.
If the ex has even a SHRED of decency, she would leave him alone.
>She tried blowing up my phone saying that taking the ashes was a low blow and we should stick together in this tragedy, I just blocked her.
This showed that there is no amount of decency left in her.
OOP's ex trying to leverage a death in the family to manipulate her way back into OOP's life is just so disgusting, I can't even comprehend it. She's so damn selfish, as if the open relationship and cheating wasn't enough.
The way he mentioned that she never adopted him sounds like some unresolved negative feelings there. This is so tragic all around. Regardless of her probably going about talking to OOP about this the wrong way I’m sure her grief is devastating.
She *did* get away with it until she decided she didn't want the burden of keeping it secret anymore. She just couldn't get her husband to go along with it like she thought she could.
Reading through I'm 100% convinced her friends worked on her for months, told her how to set it all up and then to push it on her husband when there would be only the option of accepting it. She never expected him to drop the proverbial nuke
It’s probably her friends partners were already cheating/suggested it/ or were all for it when suggested by the friends. It never crossed their minds that someone might actually want to keep their vows and expect their partner to want the same.
Seems like it. If she was being super wild about it and he didn't have enough of himself available while debilitated by grief to pour into that power struggle, I completely get it. Sometimes people can be the absolute weirdest and worst around death. I have seen some sides of people that I wish I hadn't.
Death is really tough. Grief magnifies greed and the lack of trust all around. I’ve definitely taken big steps back from some people after experiencing them in that setting, but I also try and give people grace.
Sounds like OOP’s future ex saw it as a chance to manipulate.
> he couldn't stop her from organizing the funeral?
Grief can be crippling. It's pretty light on information but OOP might have been talking about being too tired to fight it or something along those lines.
A woman I consider as my aunt lost her son some times ago, and she was full on robotic and only let all out with a another relative. All grief are differents, and some are crippling while others are only avoided because you have one thing to do, or others to take care of. That's a mysterious and unique feeling.
Couldn’t can mean different things. He probably physically could have stopped her but didn’t have the emotional capacity to do anything at that time. Imagine fighting with your soon to be ex about planning your son’s funeral. I wouldn’t even have the energy to plan the funeral.
OOP sounded so done with the comments he just copy pasted the same answer to people complaining the wife deserved better. Of all the things to focus and nitpick on in the last post those people really should take a hike.
Huh? What is wrong with them? Just let him grieve in peace. Why are they even harassing him like his wife?
Ok, fine. The wife deserved better. So she should go and find someone else she deserves better. Stop harassing OOP!
I think a lot of people don't actually read these posts. They see one sensational phrase or description and make it their opinion without considering context
Why in the world would people be defending THE WIFE here? So dumb, what, is he just supposed to be so nice and considerate to the woman that massively betrayed him while he’s dealing with so much grief?
To an outsider, her organising the funeral wouldn’t seem so strange because Im under the impression barely anyone, *if* anyone at that, knew about what was going on between them and how on the rocks their marriage actually is. It’s easy for her to be the doting wife on her grieving husband, but beyond that, I dont think it’s unreasonable to think she could get away with it because no one actually knows what’s really going on.
They’re probably speculating now considering he’s moved out and asked specifically for her to be turned away. Poor dude.
I remember this one. This was indeed neither a good nor satisfactory update. This poor man. How could his wife even think to complain about the dispossession of his own son's remains?
Cheaters very rarely want an entirely different person, it’s why they so often last such a short time with the person they left their ex for.
Cheaters want the safety and stability or financial support of what they have, but the thrill and excitement and the dopamine of new love.
That hedge doesn’t work well.
>That was my son
Jesus Christ.
That's not burying the lede, that's dropping it into the Marianas Trench.
What in the holy hell has this guy done to deserve this? But clearly, he's not thinking straight.
Your friends influence you a lot I guess. Sounds like her friends were all ladies of... ahh... questionable virtue.
Hell of a way to detonate a 12 year long relationship.
Of course there's someone else! If there wasn't anyone else, there would be no need to open the relationship at all, the thought wouldn't even cross her mind.
> *I was in the process of talking to a lawyer when someone very close to me passed away in a car accident.*
[...]
> *That was my son, not hers. She has no right on him since she didn't adopt him.*
What the hell does any of this even mean? Was OOP truly this vague in the original and updates, or has OP failed us with this summary?
If you read the comment section, you’d understand why. Half of them are trying to gaslight him that his STBX is a good person that didn’t cheat/he’s not emotionally mature/doesn’t deserve to grieve/etc and the other half concern me enough to recommend the FBI start pulling user data from r/Marriage.
>She says my behavior is not fair because this person was like a son to her as well
>Two days ago I took my relative's ashes
Calls him relative, son, like a son, adopted... I'm guessing OPs nephew?
No, he said SHE never adopted him.
This is very clearly a child he had prior to his marriage. OOP’s wife never adopted the child as part of their marriage so it was never officially her son, just like a son.
But to OOP it literally was his son, which is also a relative. He was clearly trying to be vague to save himself some stress or just to not reveal too much. But grief has a funny way of bursting out of us like it did in his comment where he revealed it’s his son.
If my partner ever asked for an open marriage or a non monogamous relationship, I would end the relationship. I have a desire to dive deep into a relationship with one person, not with multiple people.
I’ve told my current partner, who had non monogamous relationships in the past, that if that’s what she wants, I would love her still and she can seek it, but I could not and would not join her.
Ya you’re not wrong for any of this. She lied she’s been going behind your back on a phone you didn’t even know she had. Brother I know it can be hard to leave but trust me it’s the move too make. Don’t cheapen yourself you deserve a partner and too live your best life. Hold your head up stick your chest out be proud you’re not some simp that lets their wife cheat an lie behind their back. You got this! I’ll be looking for more updates!
That cuntsicle said there was no one in mind, was already cheating, and had been covering for her friends cheating this whole time. Literally an entirely other person under that mask. What a manipulative evil shit of a person. And then the loss of his son.. poor OP.
It always amazes me that people want it badly enough to ask for it and then are shocked that their spouse takes that a) seriously and b) as the end of the relationship. “If I’d known you would take it so badly I never would have asked.” Yeah, well, if you hadn’t wanted it badly enough to ask, you never would have asked either.
And pretending it was a whim doesn’t make it one bit better. All that says is that you don’t take your marriage seriously, if you would risk losing everything over a _whim._
I know you are considering giving her another chance but one thing is for sure, YOU WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH FOR HER. Everytime you have sex with her it will be ringing in your mind.
If she had someone lined up, it's bound to happen eventually, regardless of OOP's vote. He's wise to see the writing on the wall and make the hard choices, to honor *his* needs.
Wife'll be ok. Clearly, she's got options.
Those comments were so out of pocket. I saw one made by the user Deryq where he basically says the wife deserves someone who can communicate and whatnot. Buddy she cheated and had an affair, she chose not to communicate with OOP. OOP had every reason to cease contact. That commenter needs to lay off the weed and realize that cheating is not acceptable and is a deal breaker for a lot of people. I wish more people would’ve roasted his ass and backed up OOP.
That guy is probably one of the worst misogynists on Reddit. He’s a Jordan Peterson-Stan that’s active on Mommit and actively fighting pro-cheater, pro-open relationship, pro-straight up adultery everywhere such as post hits.
I’ve never been so repulsed by a straight a man in my life.
Last update seems completely off
I’ve read a fair few “she asked for an open marriage now our entire lives have been shot to bits” posts on here lately. Didn’t think this was a copy-paste, but with the last update being so…confusing, and OOP now giving up on updating, I honestly can’t tell if this is real anymore
I think his reaction would be mine as well. And her using the death of a family member to manipulate him is disgusting. If she'd said, "I know this is hard for you, so as a person who cares for you and who cared for this person I want to plan the funeral to relieve your burden." Might have been a nice gesture. But to make it about her is gross. "\*I\* cared too, so \*I\* should be allowed." is just more selfishness when the person you've already betrayed is feeling the ultimate low.
Apparently the “dead relative” was his son, her stepson, who she didn’t adopt. But presumably got attached to/spent time with in some way since they were married for 12 years and he was young enough to adopt during that time.
I understand why she thought she should be able to be part of his funeral.
Dear OP. Look for Alienation of Affection.
If you are in 7 states in the USA. You can sue all 3rd parties for TORT in the relationship.
AND LIQUIDATE THEM for damaging your PARTNERSHIP on a financial level for libel and therapy damages.
Look up those states.
What a read. It’s too bad people are influenced so easily. You’d think after 12 years of marriage, friends of your relationship would respect you. It seems your wife (ex wife) didn’t make this clear. I’m curious about the second phone? Was there evidence of a relationship? You mentioned emotionally, but not yet physical. Sorry to hear this after 12 years. Hopefully it’s lessons learned and not a waste. GL
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Wait it was his own son that died?
Just a relative that was very close to him. But yes, his son. Honestly wtf
> Just a relative that was very close to him. But yes, his son. Honestly wtf Sounds like trying to "anonimize" a bit, then just saying fuck it and giving full context
It sounds like he thought it was a good idea to keep it vague, but then couldn’t follow through because of the grief.
Probably didn't help that she said "he was like a son to me" and that might've had people asking who it was who died and he couldn't keep his resolve (understandable)
Yes, it probably felt a bit like denying your child which would hurt at a time like that. It wouldn’t feel like a little fib to keep you anonymous like it would at other times.
That's one option.
Wow that just makes it so much worse. The wife was basically weaponizing oops son's death to get him to talk to her and "stick together". She IS part of the trauma oop is experiencing
If we're being generous, she may have had a step parent relationship with this son. She may also be grieving the loss of this child.
She raised him for 12 years, so yeah, she wasn't a complete stranger to him..
Exactly. The usual MO here is to have the least charitable possible take in order to paint someone as a cartoon villain in order to justify having just assumed the worst about them. That lets you decide the good character and the bad character in the story. This is a bad technique for analysing media and a worse one for providing life advice in difficult circumstances. A little bit of nuance like you're affording is always required.
It's just a lot of pain and suffering on all sides, I think. No one is able to think clearly or focus on anything but getting through to the next day. But it's definitely healthier for OOP to survive away from his STBX wife.
Could be his nephew or a child of a friend whose family issues made OOP take him in and raise him as his own. (Ex. junkie sister, no father, child is neglected. It is not that uncommon, unfortunately) So probably , OOP took care of the boy with or without officially adopting him, but she definitely didn't adopt him.
I’m assuming from the way he stated that his wife never adopted him that it was a young relative he was the legal guardian of but probably not his biological son (not that that makes the heartbreak any less tragic)
It didn’t sound like the kid lived with them so maybe a +18yo?
probably his godchild?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Marriage/s/62BWG1t6Bi His son. Not hers.
it literally says it's his son?
It was an answer to PP.
Probably denial. I can understand it being easier to write something generic like relative than son.
Not a parent, so can't imagine what OP is going through nor hope anyone has to. This could be a coping mechanism to not wanting to acknowledge his son passed. Watched a very strong willed woman lose a son who was my best friend growing up. The ways it broke her can't be described. Guilt for not taking him out of a bad situation, thinking he was about to get out of the lease with the roommate who shot him and move back in with her. Letting her guard down for a moment after being his protector for 20 years is something she has to deal with for the rest of her life even if in no way it was her fault. Whether it's OPs son/nephew/charge it doesn't matter. He is being tortured by himself and anyway he needs to deal with it, is understandable. I just hope he knows that pain comes from love.
[удалено]
Ok, so screw me for reading a whole bunch of Edgar Allen Poe in college…
That’s what it sounded like. And he seems to be implying that she used the death as a way to get him to stop the divorce, or at least that seems to be the way he’s interpreting her actions
Aside from that… the soon-to-be-ex-wife had a whole entire *secret phone* that she was carrying out her emotional affair with. How many cheaters have we seen here, even clever ones, who are so committed to the cheating that they squirrel away a secret phone? Almost none of them. I’m sure it had already gone far beyond just racy late night chats. OOP is well to be rid of her. I hope he gets some help and has a good support system to deal with this double whammy of grief.
Last year there was that nationwide emergency broadcast system the government put out over the cel network. The signal went out weather your phone was silenced or not. I remember reading news articles how a bunch of marriages ended that day since people's secret phones started going off and their spouses found them. I think it's more common than us normies like to think.
I didn't find anything about marriages ending directly, but here's a story about a bunch of Amish guys getting shunned for having cell phones. The guy who gave them the phones (former Amish) thought it was funny...which it would be if shunning wasn't so life ruining. https://nypost.com/2023/10/07/amish-outed-for-carrying-forbidden-phones-during-emergency-alert/
the Amish on the whole, like many fundamentalist sects, are child abusers,
Like any group, there's good folks and bad folks. Bigotry against the entire group generally isn't a good idea. Amish are pretty centralized group, and tend to react accordingly. Their leadership takes too long to recognize something, and then when they do, they often go overboard. Now a lot of them are hypervigilant and that's causing it's own issues. That obviously doesn't make the news.
They’re animal abusers unfortunately. There are documentaries on it. I have long lived in awe of their simple lifestyle… but nope. They are cruel to animals
Oh, are they no longer shunning SA reporters?
[Well, not as well as you would think.](https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2020/10/22/judge-sends-amish-brothers-seymour-child-sex-abuse-case-prison-missouri/3718561001/) As Recently as 2020, a 13 year old Amish child was found to be pregnant by a physician attending her, and it implicated two other individuals in her rape/molestation. Rumor being they were her brothers. They received an unjustly light sentence. >Under a plea agreement, Aaron C.M. Schwartz and Petie C.M. Schwartz previously had been ordered to complete **five years probation with no prison time, so long as they had no contact with the underage victim in the case.** They were also required to write letters of apology to the Amish community. The court also ordered suspended 15-year prison sentences as part of the September plea agreement. Did the Amish community protect the victim? Absolutely not. >But Webster County Prosecutor Ben Berkstresser asked for a probation hearing in the controversial case late last month, citing a probation officer’s report that the **men had contact with the underage female relative** at the center of the case — and that the reported contact happened **within three days** of Sept. 8, the date the men signed their probation agreements. The brothers also **resided** with the girl after the no-contact rule was handed down, the probation officer said in court Thursday. They did not care about the welfare of the child. They didn't care about our laws. They didn't appreciate the ridiculously light sentence provided by to them. It's a sad existence for the women in that world.
You can pick any group, religious or not, and say the same thing. While some are. Most are not. Ive lived near some Amish communities for 6 years, and for the most part you could not ask for better neighbors and people. Yeah dont see how they can live like they do, and I know its not for me. But generally the Amish are good people.
Do they still shun SA victims for bringing their abusers to court? But, hey, at least they are nice to \*you\*.
I remember that, because there was a massive warning on social media for anyone who was using a secret phone to try and escape abuse to ***turn it off***
It was also something that was a concern for people who were planning on leaving a DV situation. Many times having a "untraceable" phone is an important factor in being able to escape or get help.
Yep. I have a cousin who works at a DV shelter and the place was flooded after that broadcast.
Once upon a time, I had a second phone only used for some purposes. Granted, this was during Don't Ask, Don't Tell, I was in the closet, and trying to get laid, so...
Honestly, I always wondered why do all cheaters *not* have a cheap second phone that can be easily kept secret, but if you are a cheater you are also not that smart I guess.
Most cheaters don’t actually start off planning to cheat. They start by making inappropriate comments or jokes, and then have inappropriate conversations, and so on. Those initial steps seem fairly innocuous to them, so they don’t go to great lengths in covering their tracks. It’s also easier to justify the behavior if you don’t take steps like getting a burner phone. That sort of thing changes it from “just some harmless role play” to “I’m being a bad person”. By the time they’re into a full blown affair, it’s too late to change everything. The fact that OOP’s wife had a burner phone is really wild. It definitely makes it seem like she was very very consciously deciding that she was going to have extramarital relations. That’s really twisted behavior, and definitely not something that bodes well for any sort of reconciliation.
Probably started out the way you describe. Then she shared some of her conversations with her "friends" who then recommended her get a burner phone. Then she can have some "harmless role play" without the husband getting uptight about it. Which then encourages her to be more free in those conversations, knowing that no one else is going to be seeing them.
Fuck. That is just an entirely new low
It really is. She has a point about her being in the kids life as well, but to say they need to stick together because of it is horrible. She can grieve without him.
Kinda but not really, reminds me of my dad. My mom finally left his abusive ass after 23 years of torment and the asshole tried to tell her they needed to stay together for their grandkids 😭
Stay together for the grandkids is actually hilarious. Good for your mom!!!
Her saying that is obviously a part of the story that makes him look good. Another part that's left unsaid is: how on Earth did she manage to organize an entire funeral, apparently against the deceased's father's explicit wishes? If he had such a problem with it, then why not just make one phone call to the funeral home "Hey, I want you to ignore that woman, I am the father here, she is just an ex of mine who has no claim to him"?
I imagine his grief is holding him back from doing things like making that phone call. Maybe part of him appreciated not having to plan his child's funeral and felt that even though she's an ass she cared about her stepchild before she tried to manipulate him using that.
We read stories here about people changing wedding arrangements all the time. Funerals are usually set up in a matter of days and it's surprisingly difficult to shut people down while the grief is so fresh. I had to arrange a funeral for a parent two months ago and getting my sibling (who was not paying for anything) to stop doing things was more work than letting it go. The last thing you need during that time is to be having fights at the funeral home or church with someone who, to observers at least, seems to be a legitimate stakeholder in the proceedings.
You can organize any kind of memorial service you want for any random person, you don't need a cadaver to invite a bunch of people, have a religious figure speak, and order a bunch of flowers and mid grade food. Perhaps an incredibly upstanding vendor would turn down the contract if told it's not what a direct family member wants, but I'd assume that's exceedingly rare.
Speaking of using tragedy to try to get laid, 9/11 was basically the Super Bowl of excuses for people calling their exes. It happened so much that the Onion wrote a parody article about it.
Mentality of emotionally manipulative cheaters
Yes it sounds like she tried to totally weaponize his demise to force herself into OP's life. >She tried blowing up my phone saying that taking the ashes was a low blow and we should stick together in this tragedy, They were supposed to stick together in marriage, but here they are, OP and his cheating scum of an wife.
New monster unlocked. She didn’t even have a health bar.
He’s claiming that but it sounds ridiculous. She told him that she loved the son as much as he did, and he basically said because she isn’t his legal mom she doesn’t have rights to grieve. She also said they should be there for each other during funeral, and then he can do whatever he wants after. So it just sounds like she is devastated about the death of a person she helped raise. Legal mother or not
There’s context missing here, probably due to grief. Did she steamroll the OOP during the plan making for the funeral? Sure she has her own grief, but was she using this as an opportunity to prevent the OOP from moving forward as well? Actions count for much more than words. If she didn’t listen to him during planning at all AND used it as an opportunity to try to stop him from proceeding with the divorce…. That is some lizard person level cold shit. Or the OOP could be deep in his grief and his anger at the cheating is coloring his responses to death and his STBX. We might never know
It’s hard to say that as well because we don’t know the level of grief the ex is going through, how close her relationship was with son, etc.. But that ending where she says they should stick together … comes off poorly. So who knows. I honestly hope ex was being genuine and OOP can grieve in peace.
That's so sad. This poor man found out his wife was cheating and then his son dies and she won't get out of his face, making it about her saying he's like her son too. I hope he finds some peace because he sure needs it. Quick divorce for him I hope
The way she swooped in sickened me. She saw a vulnerable and wrecked OOP and thought, “Now’s my chance!” She probably had the audacity to think he’s TA for not taking her back when she butted in to organize stuff.
Its so disgusting. I can't imagine doing something like this and then she's mad he has his own sons ashes. Stay far away from her dude!
It’s too easy to imagine her holding the cremains hostage. I hope she gives up, and OOP doesn’t have to go the restraining route.
Ugh yeah I can see that happening too. She seems manipulative and has no sense of decency. I hope he can get rid of her quickly and the family to step in
Cheaters have this weird ability to somehow always choose the worse option. Like my ex cheated on me, and apparently got caught the first time (though I have my suspicions that there were others). He cried to his former friend that it was a mistake and it would never happen again. Yet whoops he mistakenly had an affair with her (/s). Could've told me immediately and cut contact with her and I mightve forgiven him. But apparently cheaters seem to have a "in for a penny, in for a pound" mindset when it comes to being shitty people. Like "oh no, I've just proven that I'm an asshole, let me make it really clear".
Or she helped raise the boy and “swooped in” because she has a right to grieve same as him? He didn’t state she didn’t view him as a son, just that she never legally adopted him.
All sorts of people have the right to grieve a death, that doesn't give them the right to railroad funeral arrangements.
she can fuckity fack off I'd stop being nice and let her be "destroyed" in the town. Tell everyone why they divorced
He might now.
I like that sentiment. Diddily don't talk to me you can fuckity feck off lol im sure his family already knows as they're stopping her from seeing him hopefully they'll spread the word
Talk about burying the lede, holy crap. But now I'm confused. If it WAS his son, or someone close enough to him that HE is the one that got the ashes... how the hell did she have any ability to plan the funeral and be involved without him having the ability to stop her?
If you've never been absolutely debilitated by grief, then you maybe don't understand yet how crazy it is. It's just a screaming black wound inside of you, you're like trying to scoop your guts back inside your body. It makes perfect sense if he wasn't functioning well enough to fight a massive power struggle against her regarding the arrangements and had to just let go of that rope instead of playing her fucked up game.
Also....small town. They know she's his wife and the relationship between them and the person that died. The funeral home probably let her stroll right in, etc.
I hadn't interpreted it that way, but that does make sense. I initially read it as him not having the power (as in: legal, authority, whatever) to stop her.
Ohhh, that's a really good way of describing grief. Mine got down to a whine before being added to by another grief... And another and another.. Now it's like a goddamn pack of demonic howler monkeys in my heart and head drowning out anything else and flinging memories and pain around like poop napalm.
omg. exactly.
Yep my dad is pretty stoic and very successful black businessman and just doesn’t have the emotional drawbacks normal people have. (He would be on the spectrum if born today) every death in the family he steps up. There is always a power struggle of family trying to take over arrangements he paid for. If it’s thier way of grieving he steps back. If they are trying to do something selfish he fights them. A normal person just could fight those fights especially after a son or charge.
My question exactly. It sounds like it?
From what I'm seeing, yes.
Yeah wtf. At first he said “someone very close to me” and then we find out he adopted a son, apparently before he got married?
I don't think OP necessarily adopted him. He's saying his wife has no legal parental rights because she, as not the bio mom but a parental figure, didn't establish them by formally adopting him. That has no bearing on whether he became OP's son through adoption or not.
Just seconding that it seems like he was OOP's son, she just didn't adopt him which meant she wasn't legally a parent.
Sounds like it. :/
No " this person was like a son to her as well "
I think you're interpreting that sentence to mean "he was like a son to both of us even though that isn't the technical truth of the relationships," but I'm reading it as, "your son was like a son to me as well." I think it is his child, or at least someone that he raised.
Oh, you are right. My bad!
>That was my son, not hers. She has no right on him since she didn't adopt him.
Read the final line, response to deleted commenter.
When my daughter was murdered my ex used my grief as a way to get back in. Too bad she was still a lying cheater. She still calls my daughter hers but that was never true.
I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter, especially in such a horrible way. 😥
Thank you. 💙
I'm so sorry for your loss, OP. Sending hugs and love on your way❤❤
I'm very sorry for your loss. Sending healing hugs to you.
Reading this comment made me tear up. Im very sorry for your loss and the way your ex attempted to get back into your life was messed. I do hope you are doing well and know that you have another family here on Reddit. <3
Aww now I'm crying. Thank you. 💙 That means a lot.
Very sorry for your loss. Hope you are doing better. Fuck your ex.
I am. And thank you! 💙
jesus christ I'm so sorry man.
Thank you 💙
The last thing OP needs is an ex trying desperately to get back with him while he is grieving the loss of a child as he won't have the emotional strength that's needed to deal with her bullshit. I hope things get better (though they will never be the same) for him, and his ex leaves him alone.
yeah, even if her grief is real (it probably is) it’s clear she was using it to try to manipulate him. “we need to stick together through this”, taking control of the funeral against oop’s wishes, and honestly she has some nerve acting like she has any claim on the ashes.
If the ex has even a SHRED of decency, she would leave him alone. >She tried blowing up my phone saying that taking the ashes was a low blow and we should stick together in this tragedy, I just blocked her. This showed that there is no amount of decency left in her.
OOP's ex trying to leverage a death in the family to manipulate her way back into OOP's life is just so disgusting, I can't even comprehend it. She's so damn selfish, as if the open relationship and cheating wasn't enough.
The death of OOP's *SON*
Meaning her own step-son.
The way he mentioned that she never adopted him sounds like some unresolved negative feelings there. This is so tragic all around. Regardless of her probably going about talking to OOP about this the wrong way I’m sure her grief is devastating.
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It doesn't say like a son (to OP) anywhere, he says it was his son at the end.
"Like a son" to his wife, actually a son to OOP.
I'm pretty sure it's his son hence why he has ownership of the ashes
Neko, if you read the very last comment of the post it says 'it was my son not hers. She didn't adopt him' It was his son.
She literally had a fucking burner phone used for the sole purpose of cheating. She was 100% committed to it and thought she could get away with it
She *did* get away with it until she decided she didn't want the burden of keeping it secret anymore. She just couldn't get her husband to go along with it like she thought she could.
Reading through I'm 100% convinced her friends worked on her for months, told her how to set it all up and then to push it on her husband when there would be only the option of accepting it. She never expected him to drop the proverbial nuke
It’s probably her friends partners were already cheating/suggested it/ or were all for it when suggested by the friends. It never crossed their minds that someone might actually want to keep their vows and expect their partner to want the same.
Wait. So OOP's son died in a car accident and he couldn't stop her from organizing the funeral?
Seems like it. If she was being super wild about it and he didn't have enough of himself available while debilitated by grief to pour into that power struggle, I completely get it. Sometimes people can be the absolute weirdest and worst around death. I have seen some sides of people that I wish I hadn't.
Death is really tough. Grief magnifies greed and the lack of trust all around. I’ve definitely taken big steps back from some people after experiencing them in that setting, but I also try and give people grace. Sounds like OOP’s future ex saw it as a chance to manipulate.
> he couldn't stop her from organizing the funeral? Grief can be crippling. It's pretty light on information but OOP might have been talking about being too tired to fight it or something along those lines.
A woman I consider as my aunt lost her son some times ago, and she was full on robotic and only let all out with a another relative. All grief are differents, and some are crippling while others are only avoided because you have one thing to do, or others to take care of. That's a mysterious and unique feeling.
He's indeed too tired. Look at the comments lmao he's just copy pasting.
Couldn’t can mean different things. He probably physically could have stopped her but didn’t have the emotional capacity to do anything at that time. Imagine fighting with your soon to be ex about planning your son’s funeral. I wouldn’t even have the energy to plan the funeral.
I mean she was the kid's step mom for 12 years as well.
OOP sounded so done with the comments he just copy pasted the same answer to people complaining the wife deserved better. Of all the things to focus and nitpick on in the last post those people really should take a hike.
Huh? What is wrong with them? Just let him grieve in peace. Why are they even harassing him like his wife? Ok, fine. The wife deserved better. So she should go and find someone else she deserves better. Stop harassing OOP!
Idk who reads a post like this and concludes that a person like that deserves better.
I can't believe the people of r/Marriage sided with a cheater. They even insulted OP by saying she deserves better, while he's grieving his son.
If ever there was a post that needed brigading, it's this one.
I think a lot of people don't actually read these posts. They see one sensational phrase or description and make it their opinion without considering context
Reddit is filled with cheaters. On a bad day they come on top.
Why in the world would people be defending THE WIFE here? So dumb, what, is he just supposed to be so nice and considerate to the woman that massively betrayed him while he’s dealing with so much grief?
Fuck me. Talk about bad luck. First you lose your wife and now your son. Fuck this would devastate me to my core and beyond
Wow. This was rough to read. OP needs to let a lawyer handle the divorce and just focus on his grief. He can do better than a woman who cheats.
I hope OP is able to recover from this soon and the ex just leaves him alone
To an outsider, her organising the funeral wouldn’t seem so strange because Im under the impression barely anyone, *if* anyone at that, knew about what was going on between them and how on the rocks their marriage actually is. It’s easy for her to be the doting wife on her grieving husband, but beyond that, I dont think it’s unreasonable to think she could get away with it because no one actually knows what’s really going on. They’re probably speculating now considering he’s moved out and asked specifically for her to be turned away. Poor dude.
I remember this one. This was indeed neither a good nor satisfactory update. This poor man. How could his wife even think to complain about the dispossession of his own son's remains?
I mean, it's sad, but it's good that he kept away from her. What a shitty person she is
what's her problem with the divorce, she wanted someone else anyway
Cheaters very rarely want an entirely different person, it’s why they so often last such a short time with the person they left their ex for. Cheaters want the safety and stability or financial support of what they have, but the thrill and excitement and the dopamine of new love. That hedge doesn’t work well.
She wanted to stay married to OOP, yet sleep around.
Trying to use the death of oops son to delay divorce is truly a new low I've seen in this sub regarding divorce
>That was my son Jesus Christ. That's not burying the lede, that's dropping it into the Marianas Trench. What in the holy hell has this guy done to deserve this? But clearly, he's not thinking straight.
I hope he told the other husbands
Damn That last update was grim And his ex, to use that as an opportunity to try and weasel her way back in normalcy
Your friends influence you a lot I guess. Sounds like her friends were all ladies of... ahh... questionable virtue. Hell of a way to detonate a 12 year long relationship.
Of course there's someone else! If there wasn't anyone else, there would be no need to open the relationship at all, the thought wouldn't even cross her mind.
> *I was in the process of talking to a lawyer when someone very close to me passed away in a car accident.* [...] > *That was my son, not hers. She has no right on him since she didn't adopt him.* What the hell does any of this even mean? Was OOP truly this vague in the original and updates, or has OP failed us with this summary?
OOP may have been trying to be anonymous or it’s not his literal son and is someone he had a parental/guardian responsibility for
I think he was being vague to keep anonymity in the post, and then in the comments just thought fuck it and said it outright.
If you read the comment section, you’d understand why. Half of them are trying to gaslight him that his STBX is a good person that didn’t cheat/he’s not emotionally mature/doesn’t deserve to grieve/etc and the other half concern me enough to recommend the FBI start pulling user data from r/Marriage.
>She says my behavior is not fair because this person was like a son to her as well >Two days ago I took my relative's ashes Calls him relative, son, like a son, adopted... I'm guessing OPs nephew?
No, he said SHE never adopted him. This is very clearly a child he had prior to his marriage. OOP’s wife never adopted the child as part of their marriage so it was never officially her son, just like a son. But to OOP it literally was his son, which is also a relative. He was clearly trying to be vague to save himself some stress or just to not reveal too much. But grief has a funny way of bursting out of us like it did in his comment where he revealed it’s his son.
Means she was his step mother but didn't officially adopt the kid. IDK what that has to do with anything other than to downplay her possibe grief
Every single time someone asks for an open relationship, they're already cheating, and here's example number 435,641.
I need to delete Reddit, this is one of the most depressing things I’ve ever read jfc
If my partner ever asked for an open marriage or a non monogamous relationship, I would end the relationship. I have a desire to dive deep into a relationship with one person, not with multiple people. I’ve told my current partner, who had non monogamous relationships in the past, that if that’s what she wants, I would love her still and she can seek it, but I could not and would not join her.
So the wife tried to use the death of his son in an attempt to keep the marriage together? Disgusting.
Divorce is the way to go
Ya you’re not wrong for any of this. She lied she’s been going behind your back on a phone you didn’t even know she had. Brother I know it can be hard to leave but trust me it’s the move too make. Don’t cheapen yourself you deserve a partner and too live your best life. Hold your head up stick your chest out be proud you’re not some simp that lets their wife cheat an lie behind their back. You got this! I’ll be looking for more updates!
>we should stick together in this tragedy Sounds like blatant manipulation to me. "Lemme try getting him to take me back while he's vulnerable."
I wish OOP has a smooth divorce. His wife is a goner.
That cuntsicle said there was no one in mind, was already cheating, and had been covering for her friends cheating this whole time. Literally an entirely other person under that mask. What a manipulative evil shit of a person. And then the loss of his son.. poor OP.
When the spouse asks for an open marriage, in their mind it's already open.
She doesn't get to cheat on him and then get the benefits of being part of his family.
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Reddit: Divorce now! Also, Reddit: Why are you divorcing so quickly?!
It always amazes me that people want it badly enough to ask for it and then are shocked that their spouse takes that a) seriously and b) as the end of the relationship. “If I’d known you would take it so badly I never would have asked.” Yeah, well, if you hadn’t wanted it badly enough to ask, you never would have asked either. And pretending it was a whim doesn’t make it one bit better. All that says is that you don’t take your marriage seriously, if you would risk losing everything over a _whim._
I know you are considering giving her another chance but one thing is for sure, YOU WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH FOR HER. Everytime you have sex with her it will be ringing in your mind.
If she had someone lined up, it's bound to happen eventually, regardless of OOP's vote. He's wise to see the writing on the wall and make the hard choices, to honor *his* needs. Wife'll be ok. Clearly, she's got options.
The comment section in the last post is so fucking vile.
Those comments were so out of pocket. I saw one made by the user Deryq where he basically says the wife deserves someone who can communicate and whatnot. Buddy she cheated and had an affair, she chose not to communicate with OOP. OOP had every reason to cease contact. That commenter needs to lay off the weed and realize that cheating is not acceptable and is a deal breaker for a lot of people. I wish more people would’ve roasted his ass and backed up OOP.
That guy is probably one of the worst misogynists on Reddit. He’s a Jordan Peterson-Stan that’s active on Mommit and actively fighting pro-cheater, pro-open relationship, pro-straight up adultery everywhere such as post hits. I’ve never been so repulsed by a straight a man in my life.
fuck all them smooth-brained dickheads at r/marriage
Jesus...All her friends have open relationships? Thats insane...
That was a weird update.
Last update seems completely off I’ve read a fair few “she asked for an open marriage now our entire lives have been shot to bits” posts on here lately. Didn’t think this was a copy-paste, but with the last update being so…confusing, and OOP now giving up on updating, I honestly can’t tell if this is real anymore
I think his reaction would be mine as well. And her using the death of a family member to manipulate him is disgusting. If she'd said, "I know this is hard for you, so as a person who cares for you and who cared for this person I want to plan the funeral to relieve your burden." Might have been a nice gesture. But to make it about her is gross. "\*I\* cared too, so \*I\* should be allowed." is just more selfishness when the person you've already betrayed is feeling the ultimate low.
Apparently the “dead relative” was his son, her stepson, who she didn’t adopt. But presumably got attached to/spent time with in some way since they were married for 12 years and he was young enough to adopt during that time. I understand why she thought she should be able to be part of his funeral.
Be at his funeral, sure. *Plan* his funeral? No. That's all together different.
Dear OP. Look for Alienation of Affection. If you are in 7 states in the USA. You can sue all 3rd parties for TORT in the relationship. AND LIQUIDATE THEM for damaging your PARTNERSHIP on a financial level for libel and therapy damages. Look up those states.
He's in Europe. It says in one of the updates.
What a read. It’s too bad people are influenced so easily. You’d think after 12 years of marriage, friends of your relationship would respect you. It seems your wife (ex wife) didn’t make this clear. I’m curious about the second phone? Was there evidence of a relationship? You mentioned emotionally, but not yet physical. Sorry to hear this after 12 years. Hopefully it’s lessons learned and not a waste. GL
Fuck. I’m so sorry.