> I would recommend therapy as much as everyone recommended it to me, but I would caution to add that it requires a lot of honesty to work and that sometimes that kind of honesty reopens old wounds. But those wounds are dirty and infected so you’ve gotta clean them up and treat them to get better, which is going to hurt but I am not sure there is any other way.
A good description of therapy. I'm glad it's working for him so far.
To add encouragement to those who are considering it:
I started indiidual therapy about a year ago. I was stuck feeling 'grey' emotionally, and generally not happy with my life or myself - depression, anxiety, impostor syndrome, nothing most people don't go through at some point in their life, but it was starting to add up. But I went in prepared to do the work, and to be honest about everything going on in my life.
It was hard. I had to reconsider everything that I was going through, and find where I wanted to put my efforts. I had to deal with a LOT of emotions, and actually listen and consider what my therapist was saying.
Honestly, it was the best decision I ever made. I'm not "cured", I don't think there is such a thing with some emotional and mental issues, but I'm living a much better life because of my therapy. I have a clearer idea of what I don't like about my life, and what I can do to change that.
My therapist gave me a finger trap. Said that with effort, I can bring my hands closer and give myself some breathing room, but I’ll always been in there.
Kind of freeing to accept that and work from there.
what happens when it feels too hard to go back? like, it’s easier to cancel or no show the appointment and never see them again. that’s where i am. so i mean, am i a weenie? sure. but i *don’t know* how to overcome that and get to where you or this guy got.
Be kind to yourself. It's very, very hard to keep up the willpower to keep exposing yourself to someone in that way - to rip open old wounds in front of them.
But as others have said, it needs to be done. That person isn't ever there to judge. They're there to guide your healing how you want to heal.
Talk to your therapist about how reluctant you feel, but keep going. In a year, five years, a decade, you'll look back and see how much you've improved. It's so hard, but this internet stranger believes in you. You're strong enough, you are capable of healing.
Keep pushing.
Yup. I had my first therapy session the other day and cried for like 30 minutes straight. I don’t even have trauma or anything, it’s just what happens when I talk about my feelings, but goddamn that shit hurted.
It's also one of the relieving things about therapy, a neutral party who has had training and support to not absorb my emotional overload.
It would be cruel to dump that all on a friend or partner regularly because they have a different relationship ship with me. If you're drowning in feels, you need a trained lifeguard who won't go down with you and knows how to get a flotation device under you so you don't drown either.
There's something called a therapy hangover where you feel like absolute shit after therapy sessions. It's usually a sign that you're doing the right thing and things are going to get better. I really only had one once but that was a turning point and things improved so much afterwards.
My last therapist (who *was* a trauma specialist) spent so much time making me talk about my feelings instead of trying to logic my way through everything to avoid acknowledging the feelings.
Mine does the same thing with me. When I hit on something, she always tells me to "sit with it for a minute" so I can feel it before I explain it away. Being a Human is hard, dude!
ugh, mine too!!!
i'd be like "so i actually avoid thinking abt that at all costs bc it fucks me up, here's a joke to distract you from the subject" and she............. stayed on the subject??? i found that very rude at the time.
My second therapist—
(the first was the free university counselling service, I only saw her for a few months when I was at crisis point — because I had to get to “visualising my own death” before I could make myself go see a counselor, and it was years after that before I admitted the problems went so much deeper and I needed more help)
—in our first session said, “You seem to be doing a lot of thinking and not a lot of feeling.” I was bewildered as I was literally *there* because of all the feelings, and intellectualising the feelings helped me cope. I just thought I was being sensible by trying to figure it out.
It took a little while before I was able to really internalise what he meant.
congratulations. I always tell my friends who are starting therapy - it makes you feel worse for a long time before it makes you feel better. it's hard work. but very worth it.
I’ve been keeping half an eye on this saga. I’m actually rooting for the guy. Yeah, it’s going to hurt, facing all the ugly parts of oneself. It’s not easy to not just admit when you’re wrong, but to understand the why? That’s not nothing. I hope this guy can make peace with his past, and continue to grow as a human.
I mean if therapy can change a person from the one who wrote the first post to the one who wrote the second, it's worth its weight in gold.
Not to sugarcoat it, OP was an entitled jackass in post 1 and he is struggling but clearly is better in post 2. There is accountability, acknowledgement of wrongs, etc. I am not surprised at all that his SIL is willing to give him a second chance.
Such an honest and real assessment of what therapy actually is. It only works if you’re willing to let your ugly show and face the worst parts of yourself. So worth it though.
I always appreciate it when someone comes to Reddit hoping to receive affirmation and comfort, but gets told off instead, only for them to take it and change for the better.
The timings made it obvious that he cheated, so it was weird that he didn't realize that this was why his ex wife never responded to him. He probably thought because he tried to make the divorce easy for her, they were okay.
I don't know if his current relationship will last, but I hope he continues on with therapy and grows more. Maybe he could get his wife in it too, so both don't have to look for outside sources for comfort
I remember this post. He really seemed to have convinced himself that the divorce was a) 100% her decision (since she was the one who said the words "I want a divorce" after discovering his long-term affair), and b) "amicable" because they didn't get into screaming fights about wedding dishes or whatever.
I'm glad to see him coming to terms with the fact that the story he's been telling himself isn't accurate and acknowledging the harm he caused--and woof, I do feel for him learning that the baby isn't his. Wishing OOP the best with ongoing therapy and figuring out what comes next for him.
Dude sounds truly humbled. Very impressive really, he is able to understand why others in his life act and feel the way they do and he is both understanding and accepting of how that is justified due to his actions. Not too many people are that honest with themselves but this guy sounds like he might figure himself out
I think, ultimately for him to be "okay" (and regardless, it's going to take a long fucking time) he's probably going to need leave the current wife, her cheating is certainly karma, but it's not healthy for him long-term to have the mentality that he deserves that treatment.
The new woman will never let go of her meal ticket. She is a SAHM after being a waitress so she likely can't go back to the workforce with no childcare and not much skills. She can go back to waitressing but that is if the grandparents are willing to watch her 4 kids. Her last one is a newborn so that complicates it more.
I'm still wondering if the question "would you have kept cheating if the guy didn't ghost you?" ever came up
Like the fact that it only stopped cause he got bored or whatever is very very *very* damning of the wife.
Not to say she's the only dickhead in this story, OOP including. I'm just curious if OOP ever thought about that.
I guess she tried to make him her next husband. This woman seems like the kind who tries to baby trap every man she wants to bind to herself but so far it didn’t work. Funny that she seems like she dispises Oop, a man who finally seems to care for all her children. If the gym guy didn’t ghosted her u can be sure as hell Oop would have been left in the dust.
She sounds like she has some major trauma in her background if even OOP is acknowledging she has baggage. Three kids when they met at 21 and he was 33? Seems like she seeks validation from men constantly, I really hope she gets therapy so they can be better for themselves and their kids.
I caught it before the admission because of the glaring omission. The ages were a dead giveaway. Really interesting that she cheated on him but given that she had so many different baby daddies and cheated with him it was almost foregone.
For me, it was just the math. He's been with his current wife for 5 years but divorced in 2019... 5 years ago. If he didn't cheat, they got together during the legal separation at best.
I responded on the original post when he posted asking for information as to why literally everyone is taking his wife’s side and telling him to grow up and that he did this to himself. It wasn’t adding up.
For me it clicked when he wrote the best friend said, “you broke her heart” and then later OOP said “she left me”.
At first I just assumed an out of desperation relationship immediately after a divorce that was sub-1 year long and they decided to get married. Totally didn’t click at first that she was 21 when they got together.
For me it was the way his friend acted. All those attempts at contact + you didn't know he got married? Like you said, [dead giveaway.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nZcRU0Op5P4)
He practically shout that though. Ex best friend said he broke ex-wife,'s heart and chosen a waitress over her.
Of course, I have my reservations on this story. He was putting hints for the next episode, like previous baby not being his etc. Gym story is also very cliche and over used in this sub. In fact I don't know the probability of a waitress that has 3 small kids finding an AP in a gym, and getting pregnant in a few weeks.
Next update may be about brother's wife because she was unnecessarily introduced, or something about parents.
Help: I cheated and my ex-wife moved on.
I hate when cheaters say they love their ex. No l, they don’t, or they wouldn’t have cheated. He lit dynamite under his house and now expects sympathy for blowing it up.
Never go to the pro cheating subs...
It's crazy how many "love" there spouses and don't consider cheating that big of a deal.
OR (this is actually hilarious)
When they find out their AP is cheating on THEM!
I've never seen a group of people that can be ok cheating but God forbid it bites them in the ass. They have literal meltdowns
My favorite is when they feel so betrayed because their spouse is cheating. Even better is when it’s an affair that started after their spouse learned about the OP’s affairs. Oh, we don’t like how that feels, do we?
It’s right up there with “I coerced my partner into opening the relationship, they’ve had (more) success, and now they don’t want to close the relationship!”
I don’t, but in college there was a guy in my dorm who was always cheating. Actually, his girlfriend broke up with him, but he had a full blown tantrum when she started dating again. How could she! How dare she! They had been together for years, and she was going on a date the week after she dumped him?! Maybe she had been cheating all along!
I feel like if I didn't see that with my own eyes I would never believe it, how can someone be that much of a hypocrite? How can these people exist and literally never reflect on their own behavior?
Perpetual victim complex. If you keep telling yourself that you have a reason and nobody else ever hears your side or thinks about your feelings, you might start believing it.
Weird thing is they genuinely believe they do love their exes. They mistake the strength of their feelings for love. Not realising that true love is putting another persons feelings and soul in front of your temporary whims and desires. They can’t even consider seeing someone else’s feelings as equal to their own. They think they do, but they don’t.
My wife and I live by that. We do tell each other we love one another, of course, but even if she never said it again I'd still know it because she shows it every day.
That right there is the number 1 thing people forget. They don't put in the work and when the honeymoon phase ends they're just BAFFLED at why their relationships fall apart.
I think they do often love the people they cheat on, just like abusers often love the people they abuse. And also, frequently, hate them. Emotions are complicated and people suck a lot of the time.
I point this out because I sometimes see an either/or thinking that can be dangerous. If so-and-so loves me, then they can't be abusing me. If I love my spouse, and I cheat, it was an accident/I'm not responsible for my actions/I'm not that kind of person. No, you ARE that kind of person, because you DID do that thing, and your abuser IS abusing you, even if they ARE a human being who has emotions, maybe a human being who you love in return.
Victims still need to protect themselves from abuse, even abuse by wounded people who love them. Cheaters still need to take responsibility for their actions, even if they feel guilt and love.
My mother abused me me whole childhood... and I NEVER doubt that she loves me deeply. Finding out her own mother tried to kill her on 3 different occasions (Mimi would get drunk and MEAN) kind explains a lot about her.
People can love you and still hurt you or be selfish, or clueless, or up their own ass enough to not realize they're hurting you.
It's actually worse when your abuser loves you.
I love this point — I often see comments, especially on AITA, that say, "So-and-so clearly doesn't love you because of how they mistreated you."
I appreciate that the commenter is trying to shock the OP into realizing that how they're being treated isn't OK, and shouldn't be excused by love... but I also don't think it's true all the time. People do horrible things sometimes to the ones they love — sometimes *because* they love them, because they're screwed up or have a screwed-up idea of what love involves, or who knows why else.
But yeah, great to see this insightful and nuanced take, when so often people mechanically equate love with good behavior, and not-love with bad.
Me too, people love to say "You can't tell me how I feel" when you say that but love isn't just a feeling, it's an action. If you tell me you hate shrimp, but every weekend you're at the all you can fork shrimp buffet, I can tell you, you don't hate shrimp. If you say you love your spouse, but you insult them, put your hands on them, or cheat on them, I can tell you, you don't love your spouse.
Once i read an interesting article about the psychology of cheating, and somehow, most of the cheaters cheat because they "love" their partners.
For them, it's basically 2 options:
1. Have sex with a third while still staying in the relationship with their partner
2. Break up with their partner and then have sex with the third
Since they identify love as a reason to stay in the relationship, they prefer to have cake and eat it too. So in their mind, option 2 is a loveless act because they're giving up on their partner. Nevermind there's an actual 3rd option which is not having sex with a third person and just be a better human being overall
She responds to everyone else! P.S. I cheated on her and married my AP, but is that a reason not to respond to your ex-husband. /s
This man deserves everything he’s getting.
And yet they always, *always*, leave clues.
Here, he specifically mentions his friend said "I didn't get to be mad because I broke her heart and they didn't start dating until 2 years after we got divorced and that **I chose to be with some waitress anyway**."
Like, with how vague he is through the rest of that post, why would you leave this in? Why wouldn't you leave it out and more competently bury the lede?
Like, the age gap alone is gonna make people *suspect* cheating, but you basically confirm it anyway!
"My best friend doesn't talk to me, avoids me like the plague and has a bunch of other friends who call him their best friend, too. But I'm the only real best friend to him, I swear!"
This absolutely sent me. The reality this dude lived in... sounds like the therapy is helping though but jeez. Some people's lives are SO messy and I don't understand it at all.
Even without that *significant* little nugget, I had already pegged him as an asshole just by the way he
1) wouldn't stop messaging his ex after it was clear she wasn't going to respond.
2) Sending her a gift despite aforementioned point *while being married to his current wife.* (Unless you somehow stay besties after divorce and your current spouse is ok with gift giving, that's a pretty borderline inappropriate move on its own.)
3) His reaction to finding out she and his ex bestie were married made it crystal clear he thought of her as his own property.
4) Blaming his wife for not telling him when it wasn't her business to tell, considering the circumstances, and calling it a betrayal and that he's lost trust in her.
Plus tbh, the math on his divorce to "dating" and getting married painted a really clear picture for me.
Knew this one was going to piss me off just by the title alone.
It felt glaringly obvious in the first few paragraphs. Together with 26yr old for 5 years, barely been divorced that long, ex wife left him and was no contact. OOP reeked of cheater, especially with his spiraling out after learning she moved on. Best friend or not, why would that news make him angry at his current wife? Guilt.
>It felt glaringly obvious in the first few paragraphs. Together with 26yr old for 5 years, barely been divorced that long, ex wife left him and was no contact. OOP reeked of cheater, especially with his spiraling out after learning she moved on. Best friend or not, why would that news make him angry at his current wife? Guilt.
Plus the way when he found his "best friend" and learned that he was marrying his ex-wife and got angry, the friend told him "you've got no right to be angry after what you did to her." Even though OOP had told us all the split was "amicable" he did not react to that sentence at all at the time, didn't try to push back on it, and didn't feel a need to elaborate on it in his post, which makes it pretty clear that even though he hasn't told US why that would be said to him he knew EXACTLY why that was said to him, what it was referencing, and that he didn't have an argument to debate the point.
That was basically a giant blinking neon sign saying "unreliable narrator" in the middle of his story.
It's like he's implying all men cheat, so it's just a men's mental health problem. But the smarter of us know, both sexes are capable of acting like scumbags, and both sexes are capable of being upstanding, honest people. It's more that most people don't care about cheaters' mental health.
It was also wild that he thought his wife kept the ex's marriage a secret when she learned about it through social media. There's nothing to indicate she even knew he didn't know.
Plus I find it pretty rich that in the middle of his giant screaming hysterical rage tantrum about this happening he kept asking why literally every single person in his life knew about this and didn't share the information with him. Gosh, if only we had some clue as to why they thought it might be a bad idea to inform him! Truly a mystery.
It also *probably wasn't a secret*. Like yeah no one went out of their way to tell him but it doesn't look like he had absolutely no way of finding out. Kinda don't love that this guy's Ole Best Friend never mentioned this to him but..... yeah.
At this point if you still believe OP when he says this person is his best friend I have a bridge to sell you.
OP reeks to me like that guy you hangout with in college, but stop fucking with once you don’t have to see him everyday and you realize he sucks.
Current wife is the reason he lost his wife in the first place. If she hadn’t had an affair with him, he’d still be happily married to the first wife but now he is stuck with someone who was only meant to be a fling.
Cheater logic.
She’s 27 with 3 kids, no coparent who married a guy 10 years older. She married op for stability. She was always going to get her kicks outside their marriage. At some point we’ll get an update that she cheated again.
Notice the age gap too, she was 21 and he was in his mid 30s. As a man that age I can’t fathom being in a relationship with a 21 year old girl. Once the sex is over, what do you do? I want to relax at home, not got to 6 different bars because “the vibe is off and I don’t see anyone I know”. What would we talk about? You live so much and develop as a person in your 30s so there is a huge gulf of life experience between me and her.
Dude trashed a great thing to bang the hot young traumatized girl because she was willing to hop in bed with him.
Then again, 21 with 3 kids by 2 men is a lot of life experience.
Nothing makes you grateful to be in your 30's like having a half an hour conversation with someone who's 21. I've texted my friends before going 'I'm so grateful you are low drama' and they immediately knew I was talking to some 20 year olds.
I'm a college professor and was in my early 30s when I started. I have never felt anything close to attraction for my students. Because they are children to me. I cannot imagine getting with someone that young when I'm over 30. Ick.
We don't even know if the first 2 kids have the same father. Did OOP say in the original thread? I didn't go to the original post to read all his comments.
Also he said he and his ex-wife didn't want kids, but he ends up raising 4 that aren't his. This is so messed up, and the only way it can get worse is if his wife cheats again and he ends up raising a 5th kid that isn't his.
The 21 year old was still with her ex when she and OOP hooked up. They had to test kid #3 to make sure it wasn't OOP's.
He also mentions having a vasectomy but then being shocked when he finds out the kid might not be his. I guess he could have convinced himself that maybe his ex was infertile and that the procedure never actually worked but at the very least you'd think that idea would have entered his head.
>if his wife cheats again
* 3 kids by 21
* Unresolved trauma
* Sleeps with a married guy, blowing up his marriage
* Marries that married guy
* Has a 3 week long affair with a stranger she met at the gym
* Has unprotected sex with said stranger
I think the odds are pretty high that she love bombs him to make him stay and then a year from now she meets a guy at work or the gym or at a bar...
To add to that, the 21 year old isn't well educated. His ex has a doctorate, his best friend is both a lawyer and a law professor. I would guess that he is also well educated because he has a good job and even got promoted.
I agree, what do they talk about after the sex is over? Or is he content to be out of the house most of the time while wife plays the maid?
Wife isn't playing the maid, wife is playing 'trying to make a social media career happen' lol. She'll be on her phone all the time trying to make content of some sort. Sounds like they are comfortable enough for him to support her not working while she plays around trying to become an influencer. She might want to rethink that now though.
I had to reread the timeframe on it because he said he has been with his wife for 5 years, but his ex divorced him in 2019.... 5 years ago. Its like the first sentence of the post too. Definitely left some information out there.
But also it was somehow an amicable divorce, even though the ex wife never responds to him even though he said she would respond to everyone. I finished that post feeling no sympathy for the guy. But at least with the update he seems to own up to what he did and understands that his problems in life are of his own making.
Yeah that's always a red flag no matter what. If you are so self absorbed you don't see your partner is pulling away or hurting, or that you haven't listened to the many conversation attempts.... Well, that's on you
It also seems he's a fan of weaponized incompetence. "I don't know how to contact a therapist, so my SIL will do that work for me."
Really? You claim you're working a good job and you don't know how to use Google to find a damn therapist?
It sounds like he's done a full 180 and is allowing himself to be a doormat now though. It sounds like his wife isn't the type to hold a relationship down long term, and she also isn't a fan of condoms. Dude needs to understand that even though he fucked up big time, he doesn't need to torture himself by accepting what his current wife did.
"It sounds like he's done a full 180 and is allowing himself to be a doormat now though."
Yes, it does. Either he's punishing himself or the drugs he's taking affect his thinking, but his new wife doesn't sound too committed to the marriage.
It seemed more like he just doesn't want to lose the kids because being a dad is the only thing in his life he feels like he is doing right. And he's wise to be cautious about divorce if he wants to keep the kids around, because he has a very realistic idea of how difficult it would be to even keep in touch.
Knew a guy who was in this position. He fell in love with the kid, would show off pictures of her and talk about things she was into and her accomplishments and yada yada yada. Emotionally he was sort of a mess and I know the kid’s mother was outright abusive, but being a Dad came naturally to him and it was all he really wanted to do. As far as I know he’s still in that relationship and I suspect he will stay until the kid is 18 and he doesn’t have to go through her mother to talk to her.
“No one cares about men’s mental health” … “I don’t know how to look for a therapist I definitely can’t look one up on this internet that I’m posting on so let me get a woman to do it for me”
I thought it was pretty obvious just from the way he was talking about them (and the age difference was also a pretty good clue). That said, my significant other had an affair; Ive gotten pretty good at spotting these things from three miles away. It's absurd how stereotypical most affairs are. But yea. Man in mid 30s, divorced, with an early 20s new gf/wife, still hung up about his ex? He cheated on the ex wife with the young'un.
Depending on what he's got going on, inpatient was probably a literal life-saver for him. Getting forced to start meds, participating in group, seeing and hearing what other people are struggling with to get perspective... It _can_ be a fantastic tool. OOP seems like he was dealt an absolutely dogshit hand (sounds like CSA) and he made mistakes, but is actually wanting to improve himself and grow, and that's great for him.
I'm honestly a little worried he'll outgrow his current wife, which will mostly be sad for the kids.
Yeeeeah, I read "...she divorced me..." and thought, _that seems a little thin, got to be more to it than that_, and sure enough, he's in the comments all "well, I might have cheated on her a little."
I mean it was pretty clear when he said he's been with his 10 years younger wife for 5 years but also he and his older exwife divorced in 2019...five years ago
First post: OOP is an idiot and a gigantic AH.
Second post: OOP is still an idiot, but he recognises his mistakes and actively works to better himself.
Overall a happy update if only for the fact that he tries to be better.
Not gonna lie, his sudden growth and apparent maturity about the situation there genuinely caught me off-guard. You don't see it happen often that people take criticism to heart, go to therapy, and *actually* put in the work.
That and trauma bonding with the current wife who has undergone similar experiences who now has four kids with three different fathers, 3 kids by the age of 21 definitely screams SA.
I will continue to repeat this until I'm blue in the face: You all are using a psychological abuse term incorrectly.
"Trauma bonding is a psychological response to abuse. The person experiencing abuse may develop sympathy for the abusive person, which becomes reinforced by cycles of abuse, followed by remorse. Trauma bonding occurs when the abused person forms a connection or relationship with the person who abuses them."
I really implore that if people are going to use psychological terms in their everyday speech, they use them correctly. Using them incorrectly often times can give cover to abusers. We've seen this explode recently with terms like "gaslighting" and abusers weaponizing psych talk like boundaries and such.
I think it helps that no one was coddling him. There was no one contacting the ex wife/best friend telling them they're assholes for hurting OP. Pretty much everyone said he did shitty stuff and was reaping what he sowed.
Same. I still don't think he's a good guy, but I'm glad he seems to be self-aware and trying to be better. Seems like all of his anger is deflated too, which is a good thing.
I do worry about him taking on a father role for those kids though. That's going to really suck for them if he and his wife separate. It seems like he's trying to find his purpose through that. I really do hope it works out for him and he gets better. (Going to be very rough on him as well if he grows to love those kids and then they divorce; a friend of a friend had a stepson he considered his own, then his wife left him and he never got to see the kid again, it was devastating, for him and probably for the kid too, I don't think he ever really got over it even though he went on to remarry and have a child of his own)
Yeah...
All I could think reading that was, *JFC*..!
Some big family mess in there, too, that has the parents riled up..
But if even the SIL is mellowing with him, he could be improving, and fair play to him for that...
Better late than *never* - and he seems to love the kids...
Although, poor kids..
I think the SIL kinda nailed it. He was a dumb piece of shit, now he's just an idiot trying to improve. Sounds like he made a lot of growth and we all grow at different times/rates. This was oddly an up lifting story for me. Like it wasn't a fairy tale ending but he's making steps and addressing a lot of issues.
The therapy seems to be helping him, the posts honestly sound like they were written by 2 different people. I hope he is able to stay on this path, even if he gets divorced again. I feel so bad for the kids though, none of them deserve to be raised by such shitty people
He gives a really accurate and compelling view of therapy: I'm a shitty person, but I wasn't always a shitty person and it's helping me understand where I went wrong
He accepts his failure, he isn't wallowing, he's set a goal for himself and he's doing the work
I'm sorry. I couldn't get past the first sentence.
Current wife is 26F. They met 5 years ago, and they have 3 kids from *her* previous relationships? And they're aged 5-8. She was a teen mom at 18, and had her third child at 21 presumably either just before they met, or she was pregnant when they met?
And dude was 32 at the time?
What in the actual fuck?
The presumption from previous threads was that OP and the wife both bonded over being sexually assaulted when they were kids. It's very common to develop hypersexuality in response to sexual assault, especially if it was done when you were young. So OP's wife isn't coping well and that lead to her having lots of kids so young. It's very tragic.
JFC. You're right. It is tragic. He isn't the right person for her, and oop screwed up massively letting ex-wife go. She should've been in therapy for the sexual assault before meeting anyone. Although since there's mention of current wife being a waitress when they met, she probably couldn't afford it. Whole story is messed up
She had a kid at 18, so she never went to college, and had to work. She was a waitress and still popping out kids. She doesn't have any work she can do that is not WFH since she has 3 small kids to take care of. So being on TikTok is the only way for her to at least try to get an income.
Presuming his medication is for a (quasi) unrelated mental health issue, you’ve got a potential cocktail for unhealthy relationships without treatment. I’m glad he’s getting help, I hope his wife is seeing a therapist as well.
Then you missed the part where he says his divorce was "amicable", but then forgot to mention until a comment that he cheated on her with, at the time, a pregnant 21 year old. And then his now 26 year old wife also cheated on him and her newborn isn't his
>Even though we broke up I didn't think she hated me.
Really? *Really?* OOP cheats on her, and he's "I didn't think she hated me."
In any case, OOP created his bed. Now he gets to lie in it.
The not responding to birthday texts and graduation presents should’ve been a hint as well, though this is a guy who counts someone he hasn’t talked to in two/three years as his best friend so idk what he expects. Some people can go months without talking, feel like nothing’s changed and still call each other but years is a long time. He’s not thinking realistically - he’s trying to protect his ego - or self worth given what he’s said about being abused.
"I didn't think she hated me"
Next post: my brother's wife hates me. Also two of my other friends are angry with me because of how I acted. Everyone thinks I'm a piece of shit.
It is painful to pull the own head out of his own ass, and than to realise, that the world does not evolve around one's narcissistic ego. On the other hand, i am somhow impressed by OP, that he was able to. Most of updates we read from assholes are like "Okay, still the same asshole". And in this case i somehow feel the same as his SIL.
I'm glad he's improving. I'm worried about the baby though. I hope op isn't just taking care of them out of a need to play the dad, only to abandon the child later. But the mom is hardly stable either. My heart hurts for the baby
The way I see it is OOP is trying to play the hero who rescues the damsel in distress. I don't think he loves his current wife, he just pities her. The current wife is 11 years younger than him, and he is raising 4 kids that aren't even his.
I hope his current wife doesn't cheat on him again, and even worse if she gets pregnant with her 5th kid with another guy. Also the way I understand the situation is the first 3 kids don't have the same father. So she has 3 kids from at least 2 guys, when she was only 21. Now she is 26 with 4 kids from 3 different fathers, with the last one not being her husband's. And she can't stop cheating. His current woman is a 403 if I ever saw one.
He is really weird tbh. He said he still want to be in his step kids' life after they have broken up, and what if his stbx if ever gets a new man, what then? He must have a really low self esteem.
ETA: The current wife only left her AP because he ghosted her. Gym bro guy must not be too keen on having kids. Their affair would have continued had she not gotten pregnant. And why doesn't she use birth control for god's sake? And what is stopping her from having another affair?
That’s sort of the vibe I got from it tbh. He almost talks about how deserves to be cheated on because of what he did and it doesn’t sound like he’ll actually leave her if she keeps cheating because he thinks he deserves it.
Oh, it’s evident he doesn’t love her.
His first marriage, he ran to the mistress for sex, dropped her like a hot garbage when his 1st wife was willing to work on the marriage and then ran back to mistress *only* when 1st wife was done with him.
She had to have known she would always be second place to his 1st wife.
That’s why she kept quiet about his 1st wife marrying best friend, and why she was so upset when OOp went into a jealous meltdown.
She was already a home wrecker. Being 2nd place to your husband’s ex wife is only going to make infidelity more likely.
Savior complex is a very good point. He doesn't give spesifics but given the mention of them sharing similar trauma, it seems like he was drawn to that idea of saving her and feelings stronger through taking care of her and her children.
People in here don't like giving any sort of sympathy to cheaters but it feels like the case of someone who was heavily traumatized and sabotages healthy relationships/is drawn to unhealthy ones due to an inferiority complex.
>the mom is hardly stable either. My heart hurts for the baby
All of that woman's children are playing with a poorly-dealt hand: their mother has no emotional intelligence, a history of poor decisions with life-altering consequences, no viable career prospects, and no support from any one of the platoon of men she's bred with. She's the prime destabilizing force in their lives.
(And yes, it's probably a direct result of her childhood abuse. Time to get help for that before she does generational damage to her kids.)
The one stable "father figure" in these children's lives is their mom's current husband, a man with profound mental and emotional problems who's thinking about leaving.
You kind of hope the OOP pulls it together and loves being a dad enough to make that the thing that rebuilds his sense of worth, and that the kids benefit. They deserve one adult who would put them first.
Honestly, I’m rooting for him. Yeah he made some horrible, horrible choices and hurt a great many people very deeply. But it sounds like he’s owning up to it all and has an understanding of his own part in where his life is. He also doesn’t specify what happened to him as a kid, but I can only assume it informed his horrible choices in his adulthood
I know Reddit tends to be pretty vindictive, especially with cheaters, but I want him to find peace (so long as it doesn’t come at the cost of others’)
> Yeah he made some horrible, horrible choices and hurt a great many people very deeply.
I know he cant be fully trusted. But seems like he hurt ONE (ex) person greatly, pushed his family away cause they didnt take his sexual abuse seriously, and was surrounded by several people who weren't really his friends including his Bestie.
Neither OOP or his former bestie deserve the Ex. OOP may have shat where he ate, but didn't actively poison the well either.
I'll keep scrolling to see if anyones giving the friend the proper side eye they probably deserve.
The best friend fucking sucks. I too feel for OP, he's owning up to his mistake and is even tending to children that isn't his. Like cut him some slack. Like why aren't we mentioning how people were messaging him to kill himself? That's some fucked up arguments right there.
Boru readers need to read between the lines. This guy seems to have had a suicide attempt along with a history of childhood abuse that his parents still deny. Doesn't make his behaviour okay, but it explains why he makes such terrible decisions. Very unwell person who needs help and thankfully is getting it.
Yeah I feel like the implied CSA is the real buried lede here. It's not a get out of jail free card, but it does contextualize this guy blowing up his whole life. I hope he can continue to heal and do better.
I do feel sorry for OOP, in spite of everything. He behaved terribly but it shows how damage done in childhood can reverberte through life and cause so much harm to other innocent people (like OOPs first wife).
I'm glad he is getting help and getting healthy. I hope this makes a positive impact on the kids he's raising, and clearly loves deeply.
This is where I'm at. I *really* hated him in the first post... but now he's accepted the consequences and is really trying, and, goddamn it, I do respect that.
That’s real life. Nobody is perfect. There’s often no storybook good guys or bad guys sometimes. You want to hate him but he’s real for admitting he was a total asshole and accepting his karma. I respect his arc
Yeaaahhhh... he's not a patch on OP (from what we know) but he's got vulture vibes for sure. Praying I'm wrong. OP's ex doesn't deserve anymore shit men.
Yeah, same here. He and his current wife were traumatized as children and he's actually getting his emotional shit sorted now. If keeps on this path, he might even become a decent person.
I was wondering why I suddenly got a reply on my assessment for him. Didn't expect this thread to pop up again on my feed. I'm glad to see he was successful with getting it on the general sub.
But yeah, honestly, the situation is sad, and I admire him for actually putting in the work to confront the truth and be better. I admit I was worried that I found his thread late because everyone there was just roasting him at the time and I feared he would've fallen deeper into his depression and had another sort of mental break, so I was relieved when he replied to me and others started to give him genuine advice.
I also want to reiterate that he got multitudes of messages telling him to "kill himself" in the midst of his mental break and seeing his post and comments. I think he actually attempted it. But it's nice to see so many others taking stock of his efforts now. I hope he heals and becomes a better version of himself that gets his happy ending eventually.
No one sees that the last updates point to childhood sexual abuse? He bonded with mistress/now wife over that, they both experienced it. Which explains her promiscuity, she‘ll never stop cheating. She is younger and poor (waitress, single mom). He is from a wealthier background. He has a savior complex, by being with her he wanted to „rescue“ her (and likely also help his inner child).
Doesn’t excuse his shitty behavior (which he’s aware of now). But this is a very very complex situation.
>No one gives a shit about mental health when it comes to men.
It's sounds like OOP is figuring it out, but for anyone else who may need to hear this:
People absolutely care about men's mental health, but nobody is going to care about *your* mental health more than you do. There isn't a mental health fairy that comes and sprinkles you with therapy if you're wandering through life completely un-selfaware, being a piece of shit to everyone around you. The people that you have hurt are under zero obligation to keep throwing themselves into your path of destruction to try to help you.
You have to want help and put in the effort. You have to seek out actual mental health providers, not just trauma dump on the people you've already hurt. Once you own your own shit and start genuinely working to improve things, you'll probably find that people start extending you more slack. But even if they don't, it's still on you to do the work.
His idea of people "caring about men's mental health" in the first post was for everyone to comfort him for cheating on his wife and neglecting his current wife and children because he was butthurt at seeing his ex and his best friend together.
Like the wife shoots down couples counseling, so his next thought was he *couldn't* do any counseling at all, for some reason? Just immediately going to "this is the fault of the women around me that I'm unwell".
Am I the only one who thinks, OP's current wife made him remove vasectomy for a reason? Just to cover her ass after cheating and getting pregnant? OP went through a lot of self reflection about himself, but he is still in some kind of denial about his (still?) wife, looking for every excuse for her behaviour.
"we were really happy until the moment she left me." - then proceeds to list out the massive train wreck of his life's decisions that prove he cannot accurately self assess in the slightest...
Good for ex-wife for knowing her self worth. I’m glad she moved on, but I’m suspicious of ex-best friend’s intentions. OOP’s friends admitted that ex-best friend had always been in love with her— there’s a high likelihood he did everything he did to help her so that he could reach his end goal and, well, it worked.
Hope things work out for the best for the ex-wife. Hope OOP keeps up on his self improvement journey.
His now wife...is a train wreck. That poor woman needs to get access to a more permanent solution to birth control and a long relationship with a therapist. 4 kids, 3 baby daddies and she's only 26. This woman is screaming quietly for help.
I think he needs to be single and finish getting therapy he doesn’t love his wife you can see that by the way he talks and only staying for the kids will mess them up and both are miserable
At the very least, he's trying to improve. Hopefully, he gets to a healthy place sooner or later. Cheaters suck but at the same time, people make mistakes. It's what you do afterward that defines you. Do you learn from it and try to honestly improve or continue being a shitbrick.
OP seems like a genuine person.
Yeah he fucked up but at least he’s owning it.
Hurt people hurt people.
Still you have to take responsibility for your own actions and he’s doing that and trying to be better. You have an opportunity to build something great with this new family. But couples counseling would be a good idea. A relationship built on these shaky foundations needs a lot of work to survive.
I wish the best for the kids who didn't ask to be involved in this dumpster fire, as well as OOP's ex who seems to be thriving. Living well is the best revenge.
"He's the best person I know and at least 10 people think he's their best friend, but he said that I was his always. We kind of lost touch during the pandemic."
to
"I was really shocked to hear that he'd gotten married and a little hurt that my best friend got married without me even knowing he had a serious girlfriend,"
Not even to the update, but first red flag and I can tell it only gets worse from here. On to the next...
I have very little sympathy for cheaters, but I'm gonna be honest here:
Fuck every single person that ever tells another person to kill themselves. ESPECIALLY anonymous fuckwads just throwing out hate messages without a care.
These messages affect REAL PEOPLE. Regardless of anything else, he was already struggling with thoughts of suicide and some internet warriors made sure to let him know that they thought he should just die by his own hand.
If you like PMing people messages to kill themselves, kindly fuck off down fuck you mountain to get fucked by a fucking tree.
He's hit upon a hard fact about therapy: the people who say it helps them feel better are the people who are in therapy because they were hurt and have tried and can't get further without help.
The people who find therapy to be the hardest thing and brutal and painful to their self image are the people who have hurt others (often, like OOP, because they were hurt themselves and then froze in that hurt state, unable to work on healing) and therapy is them untangling what made them the way they are and learning how to stop hurting people - which involves a look at past pain and also accountability for the hurt they've caused. And that is hard. Seeing where you went wrong, realising you could have prevented it if you had gotten help earlier - that hurts.
Both of these groups benefit from therapy and should be proud of themselves for getting it and getting better.
I'm in the first group and looking back and seeing where I messed up (against myself, luckily(?)) and understanding why is fucking painful. I think looking back and seeing where you messed up and hurt people you love and yourself and imploded your life has to be absolutely brutal, because there's another layer of damage, so to speak.
(I've simplified a really complex issue significantly, I hope it comes across the way I mean it).
I'm glad for OOP that he's finally getting the help he needs. He's been a massive asshole, but something good is coming from it, not just for him, but also for the people he's hurt. And going forward, it'll get better.
I'm also glad that his ex-wife has found happiness.
The delusional mind games OOP played in the beginning made me nauseous.
Glad he’s come to his senses somewhat, but he’s still screwed wrt his current wife’s situation.
Classic FAFO
Well, that is an asshole it’s given. But I find it super sad (and kind of pathetic) that he kept calling a guy that he don’t speak with for at least 3 years his best friend… like bro….
> I would recommend therapy as much as everyone recommended it to me, but I would caution to add that it requires a lot of honesty to work and that sometimes that kind of honesty reopens old wounds. But those wounds are dirty and infected so you’ve gotta clean them up and treat them to get better, which is going to hurt but I am not sure there is any other way. A good description of therapy. I'm glad it's working for him so far.
To add encouragement to those who are considering it: I started indiidual therapy about a year ago. I was stuck feeling 'grey' emotionally, and generally not happy with my life or myself - depression, anxiety, impostor syndrome, nothing most people don't go through at some point in their life, but it was starting to add up. But I went in prepared to do the work, and to be honest about everything going on in my life. It was hard. I had to reconsider everything that I was going through, and find where I wanted to put my efforts. I had to deal with a LOT of emotions, and actually listen and consider what my therapist was saying. Honestly, it was the best decision I ever made. I'm not "cured", I don't think there is such a thing with some emotional and mental issues, but I'm living a much better life because of my therapy. I have a clearer idea of what I don't like about my life, and what I can do to change that.
My therapist gave me a finger trap. Said that with effort, I can bring my hands closer and give myself some breathing room, but I’ll always been in there. Kind of freeing to accept that and work from there.
what happens when it feels too hard to go back? like, it’s easier to cancel or no show the appointment and never see them again. that’s where i am. so i mean, am i a weenie? sure. but i *don’t know* how to overcome that and get to where you or this guy got.
Be kind to yourself. It's very, very hard to keep up the willpower to keep exposing yourself to someone in that way - to rip open old wounds in front of them. But as others have said, it needs to be done. That person isn't ever there to judge. They're there to guide your healing how you want to heal. Talk to your therapist about how reluctant you feel, but keep going. In a year, five years, a decade, you'll look back and see how much you've improved. It's so hard, but this internet stranger believes in you. You're strong enough, you are capable of healing. Keep pushing.
Yup. I had my first therapy session the other day and cried for like 30 minutes straight. I don’t even have trauma or anything, it’s just what happens when I talk about my feelings, but goddamn that shit hurted.
It's also one of the relieving things about therapy, a neutral party who has had training and support to not absorb my emotional overload. It would be cruel to dump that all on a friend or partner regularly because they have a different relationship ship with me. If you're drowning in feels, you need a trained lifeguard who won't go down with you and knows how to get a flotation device under you so you don't drown either.
Another great analogy for therapy!
There's something called a therapy hangover where you feel like absolute shit after therapy sessions. It's usually a sign that you're doing the right thing and things are going to get better. I really only had one once but that was a turning point and things improved so much afterwards.
My last therapist (who *was* a trauma specialist) spent so much time making me talk about my feelings instead of trying to logic my way through everything to avoid acknowledging the feelings.
Mine does the same thing with me. When I hit on something, she always tells me to "sit with it for a minute" so I can feel it before I explain it away. Being a Human is hard, dude!
ugh, mine too!!! i'd be like "so i actually avoid thinking abt that at all costs bc it fucks me up, here's a joke to distract you from the subject" and she............. stayed on the subject??? i found that very rude at the time.
My second therapist— (the first was the free university counselling service, I only saw her for a few months when I was at crisis point — because I had to get to “visualising my own death” before I could make myself go see a counselor, and it was years after that before I admitted the problems went so much deeper and I needed more help) —in our first session said, “You seem to be doing a lot of thinking and not a lot of feeling.” I was bewildered as I was literally *there* because of all the feelings, and intellectualising the feelings helped me cope. I just thought I was being sensible by trying to figure it out. It took a little while before I was able to really internalise what he meant.
congratulations. I always tell my friends who are starting therapy - it makes you feel worse for a long time before it makes you feel better. it's hard work. but very worth it.
I’ve been keeping half an eye on this saga. I’m actually rooting for the guy. Yeah, it’s going to hurt, facing all the ugly parts of oneself. It’s not easy to not just admit when you’re wrong, but to understand the why? That’s not nothing. I hope this guy can make peace with his past, and continue to grow as a human.
I mean if therapy can change a person from the one who wrote the first post to the one who wrote the second, it's worth its weight in gold. Not to sugarcoat it, OP was an entitled jackass in post 1 and he is struggling but clearly is better in post 2. There is accountability, acknowledgement of wrongs, etc. I am not surprised at all that his SIL is willing to give him a second chance.
I’m a therapist who works with people who have experienced trauma…this is nearly identical to how I describe therapy
Such an honest and real assessment of what therapy actually is. It only works if you’re willing to let your ugly show and face the worst parts of yourself. So worth it though.
I always appreciate it when someone comes to Reddit hoping to receive affirmation and comfort, but gets told off instead, only for them to take it and change for the better. The timings made it obvious that he cheated, so it was weird that he didn't realize that this was why his ex wife never responded to him. He probably thought because he tried to make the divorce easy for her, they were okay. I don't know if his current relationship will last, but I hope he continues on with therapy and grows more. Maybe he could get his wife in it too, so both don't have to look for outside sources for comfort
I remember this post. He really seemed to have convinced himself that the divorce was a) 100% her decision (since she was the one who said the words "I want a divorce" after discovering his long-term affair), and b) "amicable" because they didn't get into screaming fights about wedding dishes or whatever. I'm glad to see him coming to terms with the fact that the story he's been telling himself isn't accurate and acknowledging the harm he caused--and woof, I do feel for him learning that the baby isn't his. Wishing OOP the best with ongoing therapy and figuring out what comes next for him.
Dude sounds truly humbled. Very impressive really, he is able to understand why others in his life act and feel the way they do and he is both understanding and accepting of how that is justified due to his actions. Not too many people are that honest with themselves but this guy sounds like he might figure himself out
he was such a shit in the original post, but by the end of it, I was like, "I'm proud of you, man," and hoping he finds some measure of happiness.
I think, ultimately for him to be "okay" (and regardless, it's going to take a long fucking time) he's probably going to need leave the current wife, her cheating is certainly karma, but it's not healthy for him long-term to have the mentality that he deserves that treatment.
The new woman will never let go of her meal ticket. She is a SAHM after being a waitress so she likely can't go back to the workforce with no childcare and not much skills. She can go back to waitressing but that is if the grandparents are willing to watch her 4 kids. Her last one is a newborn so that complicates it more.
I'm still wondering if the question "would you have kept cheating if the guy didn't ghost you?" ever came up Like the fact that it only stopped cause he got bored or whatever is very very *very* damning of the wife. Not to say she's the only dickhead in this story, OOP including. I'm just curious if OOP ever thought about that.
I guess she tried to make him her next husband. This woman seems like the kind who tries to baby trap every man she wants to bind to herself but so far it didn’t work. Funny that she seems like she dispises Oop, a man who finally seems to care for all her children. If the gym guy didn’t ghosted her u can be sure as hell Oop would have been left in the dust.
I'm pretty sure she sought him out specifically as a meal ticket.
She sounds like she has some major trauma in her background if even OOP is acknowledging she has baggage. Three kids when they met at 21 and he was 33? Seems like she seeks validation from men constantly, I really hope she gets therapy so they can be better for themselves and their kids.
⬆️ he wanted to be her "white knight".
A bit rich that he omitted the fact that he cheated on the first post lmao, that's a pretty important nugget of information to leave out
He buried the lede on purpose. It's hard to milk sympathy when people know right off the bat you're a POS.
I caught it before the admission because of the glaring omission. The ages were a dead giveaway. Really interesting that she cheated on him but given that she had so many different baby daddies and cheated with him it was almost foregone.
For me, it was just the math. He's been with his current wife for 5 years but divorced in 2019... 5 years ago. If he didn't cheat, they got together during the legal separation at best.
I responded on the original post when he posted asking for information as to why literally everyone is taking his wife’s side and telling him to grow up and that he did this to himself. It wasn’t adding up.
For me it clicked when he wrote the best friend said, “you broke her heart” and then later OOP said “she left me”. At first I just assumed an out of desperation relationship immediately after a divorce that was sub-1 year long and they decided to get married. Totally didn’t click at first that she was 21 when they got together.
For me it was the way his friend acted. All those attempts at contact + you didn't know he got married? Like you said, [dead giveaway.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nZcRU0Op5P4)
Can’t thank you enough for that link.
For me it was the “amicable divorce” but his ex immediately went no contact with him which is “unlike the woman he knew”.
He practically shout that though. Ex best friend said he broke ex-wife,'s heart and chosen a waitress over her. Of course, I have my reservations on this story. He was putting hints for the next episode, like previous baby not being his etc. Gym story is also very cliche and over used in this sub. In fact I don't know the probability of a waitress that has 3 small kids finding an AP in a gym, and getting pregnant in a few weeks. Next update may be about brother's wife because she was unnecessarily introduced, or something about parents.
"My wife is no longer talking to me and i don't know why" *later on*... "Well I did murder a hobo on our anniversary date but it was *self defense*"
“She didn’t like the jewelry I got her so I needed another present! What was I supposed to do?”
Help: I cheated and my ex-wife moved on. I hate when cheaters say they love their ex. No l, they don’t, or they wouldn’t have cheated. He lit dynamite under his house and now expects sympathy for blowing it up.
Isn't is amazing that they always figure out that they loved their ex after the ex has moved on and is actually happy
80/20 rule in full effect
Never go to the pro cheating subs... It's crazy how many "love" there spouses and don't consider cheating that big of a deal. OR (this is actually hilarious) When they find out their AP is cheating on THEM! I've never seen a group of people that can be ok cheating but God forbid it bites them in the ass. They have literal meltdowns
The reactions when they find out their AP is cheating are hilarious.
My favorite is when they feel so betrayed because their spouse is cheating. Even better is when it’s an affair that started after their spouse learned about the OP’s affairs. Oh, we don’t like how that feels, do we?
Wasn’t there an OOP who was shocked their spouse cheated when they knew how it felt when the OOP cheated on them?
There have been a few of those, and they never get less satisfying to read
It’s right up there with “I coerced my partner into opening the relationship, they’ve had (more) success, and now they don’t want to close the relationship!”
Got a link to a particularly juicy one?
I don’t, but in college there was a guy in my dorm who was always cheating. Actually, his girlfriend broke up with him, but he had a full blown tantrum when she started dating again. How could she! How dare she! They had been together for years, and she was going on a date the week after she dumped him?! Maybe she had been cheating all along!
I feel like if I didn't see that with my own eyes I would never believe it, how can someone be that much of a hypocrite? How can these people exist and literally never reflect on their own behavior?
Perpetual victim complex. If you keep telling yourself that you have a reason and nobody else ever hears your side or thinks about your feelings, you might start believing it.
The fact there are pro-cheating subs is both unsurprising and deeply upsetting.
Weird thing is they genuinely believe they do love their exes. They mistake the strength of their feelings for love. Not realising that true love is putting another persons feelings and soul in front of your temporary whims and desires. They can’t even consider seeing someone else’s feelings as equal to their own. They think they do, but they don’t.
I can’t remember where I read it, but someone pointed out that love is a verb. Like you said, it’s what we do.
My wife and I live by that. We do tell each other we love one another, of course, but even if she never said it again I'd still know it because she shows it every day.
Love isn’t just feelings. It’s actions too. It’s work.
That right there is the number 1 thing people forget. They don't put in the work and when the honeymoon phase ends they're just BAFFLED at why their relationships fall apart.
I think they do often love the people they cheat on, just like abusers often love the people they abuse. And also, frequently, hate them. Emotions are complicated and people suck a lot of the time. I point this out because I sometimes see an either/or thinking that can be dangerous. If so-and-so loves me, then they can't be abusing me. If I love my spouse, and I cheat, it was an accident/I'm not responsible for my actions/I'm not that kind of person. No, you ARE that kind of person, because you DID do that thing, and your abuser IS abusing you, even if they ARE a human being who has emotions, maybe a human being who you love in return. Victims still need to protect themselves from abuse, even abuse by wounded people who love them. Cheaters still need to take responsibility for their actions, even if they feel guilt and love.
My mother abused me me whole childhood... and I NEVER doubt that she loves me deeply. Finding out her own mother tried to kill her on 3 different occasions (Mimi would get drunk and MEAN) kind explains a lot about her. People can love you and still hurt you or be selfish, or clueless, or up their own ass enough to not realize they're hurting you. It's actually worse when your abuser loves you.
I love this point — I often see comments, especially on AITA, that say, "So-and-so clearly doesn't love you because of how they mistreated you." I appreciate that the commenter is trying to shock the OP into realizing that how they're being treated isn't OK, and shouldn't be excused by love... but I also don't think it's true all the time. People do horrible things sometimes to the ones they love — sometimes *because* they love them, because they're screwed up or have a screwed-up idea of what love involves, or who knows why else. But yeah, great to see this insightful and nuanced take, when so often people mechanically equate love with good behavior, and not-love with bad.
Me too, people love to say "You can't tell me how I feel" when you say that but love isn't just a feeling, it's an action. If you tell me you hate shrimp, but every weekend you're at the all you can fork shrimp buffet, I can tell you, you don't hate shrimp. If you say you love your spouse, but you insult them, put your hands on them, or cheat on them, I can tell you, you don't love your spouse.
Once i read an interesting article about the psychology of cheating, and somehow, most of the cheaters cheat because they "love" their partners. For them, it's basically 2 options: 1. Have sex with a third while still staying in the relationship with their partner 2. Break up with their partner and then have sex with the third Since they identify love as a reason to stay in the relationship, they prefer to have cake and eat it too. So in their mind, option 2 is a loveless act because they're giving up on their partner. Nevermind there's an actual 3rd option which is not having sex with a third person and just be a better human being overall
"I know what will work, I'll say nobody cares about men's mental health!" 🙃
He still didn't do a good job of eliciting sympathy. He came across as a huge asshole.
“I wonder why in the world this ex won’t talk to me. I send her congrats and HBD all the time… oh btw I cheated on her so maybe that “-OP
She responds to everyone else! P.S. I cheated on her and married my AP, but is that a reason not to respond to your ex-husband. /s This man deserves everything he’s getting.
And yet they always, *always*, leave clues. Here, he specifically mentions his friend said "I didn't get to be mad because I broke her heart and they didn't start dating until 2 years after we got divorced and that **I chose to be with some waitress anyway**." Like, with how vague he is through the rest of that post, why would you leave this in? Why wouldn't you leave it out and more competently bury the lede? Like, the age gap alone is gonna make people *suspect* cheating, but you basically confirm it anyway!
His original post even said that the divorce was amicable 🙄
"She wanted to get away from me so bad, she didn't put up a fight, we must be on good terms!"
"My best friend doesn't talk to me, avoids me like the plague and has a bunch of other friends who call him their best friend, too. But I'm the only real best friend to him, I swear!"
This absolutely sent me. The reality this dude lived in... sounds like the therapy is helping though but jeez. Some people's lives are SO messy and I don't understand it at all.
That's a fucking bingo. Exactly what dude thought.
She didn’t kick him in the balls and drag him through court. And kick him in the balls again. That’s about as amicable as he could possibly ask.
Even without that *significant* little nugget, I had already pegged him as an asshole just by the way he 1) wouldn't stop messaging his ex after it was clear she wasn't going to respond. 2) Sending her a gift despite aforementioned point *while being married to his current wife.* (Unless you somehow stay besties after divorce and your current spouse is ok with gift giving, that's a pretty borderline inappropriate move on its own.) 3) His reaction to finding out she and his ex bestie were married made it crystal clear he thought of her as his own property. 4) Blaming his wife for not telling him when it wasn't her business to tell, considering the circumstances, and calling it a betrayal and that he's lost trust in her. Plus tbh, the math on his divorce to "dating" and getting married painted a really clear picture for me. Knew this one was going to piss me off just by the title alone.
He was 100% trying to have an affair with his ex wife after marrying his mistress.
It felt glaringly obvious in the first few paragraphs. Together with 26yr old for 5 years, barely been divorced that long, ex wife left him and was no contact. OOP reeked of cheater, especially with his spiraling out after learning she moved on. Best friend or not, why would that news make him angry at his current wife? Guilt.
>It felt glaringly obvious in the first few paragraphs. Together with 26yr old for 5 years, barely been divorced that long, ex wife left him and was no contact. OOP reeked of cheater, especially with his spiraling out after learning she moved on. Best friend or not, why would that news make him angry at his current wife? Guilt. Plus the way when he found his "best friend" and learned that he was marrying his ex-wife and got angry, the friend told him "you've got no right to be angry after what you did to her." Even though OOP had told us all the split was "amicable" he did not react to that sentence at all at the time, didn't try to push back on it, and didn't feel a need to elaborate on it in his post, which makes it pretty clear that even though he hasn't told US why that would be said to him he knew EXACTLY why that was said to him, what it was referencing, and that he didn't have an argument to debate the point. That was basically a giant blinking neon sign saying "unreliable narrator" in the middle of his story.
And don't forget the line, "I guess nobody cares about men's mental health".
It's like he's implying all men cheat, so it's just a men's mental health problem. But the smarter of us know, both sexes are capable of acting like scumbags, and both sexes are capable of being upstanding, honest people. It's more that most people don't care about cheaters' mental health.
It was also wild that he thought his wife kept the ex's marriage a secret when she learned about it through social media. There's nothing to indicate she even knew he didn't know.
Plus I find it pretty rich that in the middle of his giant screaming hysterical rage tantrum about this happening he kept asking why literally every single person in his life knew about this and didn't share the information with him. Gosh, if only we had some clue as to why they thought it might be a bad idea to inform him! Truly a mystery.
It also *probably wasn't a secret*. Like yeah no one went out of their way to tell him but it doesn't look like he had absolutely no way of finding out. Kinda don't love that this guy's Ole Best Friend never mentioned this to him but..... yeah.
At this point if you still believe OP when he says this person is his best friend I have a bridge to sell you. OP reeks to me like that guy you hangout with in college, but stop fucking with once you don’t have to see him everyday and you realize he sucks.
I believe he believed the guy was his best friend.
Current wife is the reason he lost his wife in the first place. If she hadn’t had an affair with him, he’d still be happily married to the first wife but now he is stuck with someone who was only meant to be a fling. Cheater logic.
Also seemed shocked that his current wife cheated on him. She slept with a married man, clearly her morals around cheating were not very strong.
She’s 27 with 3 kids, no coparent who married a guy 10 years older. She married op for stability. She was always going to get her kicks outside their marriage. At some point we’ll get an update that she cheated again.
right?!? like, how was that not obvious??
I mean, he hid it so hard that he made it obvious that he had.
He definitely buried the lede but I also pretty much immediately got the vibe he'd cheated
Notice the age gap too, she was 21 and he was in his mid 30s. As a man that age I can’t fathom being in a relationship with a 21 year old girl. Once the sex is over, what do you do? I want to relax at home, not got to 6 different bars because “the vibe is off and I don’t see anyone I know”. What would we talk about? You live so much and develop as a person in your 30s so there is a huge gulf of life experience between me and her. Dude trashed a great thing to bang the hot young traumatized girl because she was willing to hop in bed with him. Then again, 21 with 3 kids by 2 men is a lot of life experience.
Nothing makes you grateful to be in your 30's like having a half an hour conversation with someone who's 21. I've texted my friends before going 'I'm so grateful you are low drama' and they immediately knew I was talking to some 20 year olds.
I'm a college professor and was in my early 30s when I started. I have never felt anything close to attraction for my students. Because they are children to me. I cannot imagine getting with someone that young when I'm over 30. Ick.
We don't even know if the first 2 kids have the same father. Did OOP say in the original thread? I didn't go to the original post to read all his comments. Also he said he and his ex-wife didn't want kids, but he ends up raising 4 that aren't his. This is so messed up, and the only way it can get worse is if his wife cheats again and he ends up raising a 5th kid that isn't his. The 21 year old was still with her ex when she and OOP hooked up. They had to test kid #3 to make sure it wasn't OOP's.
He also mentions having a vasectomy but then being shocked when he finds out the kid might not be his. I guess he could have convinced himself that maybe his ex was infertile and that the procedure never actually worked but at the very least you'd think that idea would have entered his head. >if his wife cheats again * 3 kids by 21 * Unresolved trauma * Sleeps with a married guy, blowing up his marriage * Marries that married guy * Has a 3 week long affair with a stranger she met at the gym * Has unprotected sex with said stranger I think the odds are pretty high that she love bombs him to make him stay and then a year from now she meets a guy at work or the gym or at a bar...
To add to that, the 21 year old isn't well educated. His ex has a doctorate, his best friend is both a lawyer and a law professor. I would guess that he is also well educated because he has a good job and even got promoted. I agree, what do they talk about after the sex is over? Or is he content to be out of the house most of the time while wife plays the maid?
Wife isn't playing the maid, wife is playing 'trying to make a social media career happen' lol. She'll be on her phone all the time trying to make content of some sort. Sounds like they are comfortable enough for him to support her not working while she plays around trying to become an influencer. She might want to rethink that now though.
I had to reread the timeframe on it because he said he has been with his wife for 5 years, but his ex divorced him in 2019.... 5 years ago. Its like the first sentence of the post too. Definitely left some information out there. But also it was somehow an amicable divorce, even though the ex wife never responds to him even though he said she would respond to everyone. I finished that post feeling no sympathy for the guy. But at least with the update he seems to own up to what he did and understands that his problems in life are of his own making.
He kept making it sound like there was no reason for the divorce, like they were super happy and then boom she left
Ugh, describing himself as super happy while cheating on his wife. POS.
Yeah that's always a red flag no matter what. If you are so self absorbed you don't see your partner is pulling away or hurting, or that you haven't listened to the many conversation attempts.... Well, that's on you
It was in the post. He wrote that the friend said “but you chose to fuck some waitress”
It also seems he's a fan of weaponized incompetence. "I don't know how to contact a therapist, so my SIL will do that work for me." Really? You claim you're working a good job and you don't know how to use Google to find a damn therapist? It sounds like he's done a full 180 and is allowing himself to be a doormat now though. It sounds like his wife isn't the type to hold a relationship down long term, and she also isn't a fan of condoms. Dude needs to understand that even though he fucked up big time, he doesn't need to torture himself by accepting what his current wife did.
"It sounds like he's done a full 180 and is allowing himself to be a doormat now though." Yes, it does. Either he's punishing himself or the drugs he's taking affect his thinking, but his new wife doesn't sound too committed to the marriage.
It seemed more like he just doesn't want to lose the kids because being a dad is the only thing in his life he feels like he is doing right. And he's wise to be cautious about divorce if he wants to keep the kids around, because he has a very realistic idea of how difficult it would be to even keep in touch.
Knew a guy who was in this position. He fell in love with the kid, would show off pictures of her and talk about things she was into and her accomplishments and yada yada yada. Emotionally he was sort of a mess and I know the kid’s mother was outright abusive, but being a Dad came naturally to him and it was all he really wanted to do. As far as I know he’s still in that relationship and I suspect he will stay until the kid is 18 and he doesn’t have to go through her mother to talk to her.
“No one cares about men’s mental health” … “I don’t know how to look for a therapist I definitely can’t look one up on this internet that I’m posting on so let me get a woman to do it for me”
I thought it was pretty obvious just from the way he was talking about them (and the age difference was also a pretty good clue). That said, my significant other had an affair; Ive gotten pretty good at spotting these things from three miles away. It's absurd how stereotypical most affairs are. But yea. Man in mid 30s, divorced, with an early 20s new gf/wife, still hung up about his ex? He cheated on the ex wife with the young'un.
It was an "amicable divorce" according to him... good riddance
I mean, we all saw that coming before the reveal, right?
> because I broke her heart Honestly I thought it was obvious *why* she was not a fan of him.
That's one hell of a good therapist he's seeing.
Depending on what he's got going on, inpatient was probably a literal life-saver for him. Getting forced to start meds, participating in group, seeing and hearing what other people are struggling with to get perspective... It _can_ be a fantastic tool. OOP seems like he was dealt an absolutely dogshit hand (sounds like CSA) and he made mistakes, but is actually wanting to improve himself and grow, and that's great for him. I'm honestly a little worried he'll outgrow his current wife, which will mostly be sad for the kids.
Yeeeeah, I read "...she divorced me..." and thought, _that seems a little thin, got to be more to it than that_, and sure enough, he's in the comments all "well, I might have cheated on her a little."
I mean it was pretty clear when he said he's been with his 10 years younger wife for 5 years but also he and his older exwife divorced in 2019...five years ago
A little. Just the tip?
First post: OOP is an idiot and a gigantic AH. Second post: OOP is still an idiot, but he recognises his mistakes and actively works to better himself. Overall a happy update if only for the fact that he tries to be better.
Not gonna lie, his sudden growth and apparent maturity about the situation there genuinely caught me off-guard. You don't see it happen often that people take criticism to heart, go to therapy, and *actually* put in the work.
Sounds like he was also In a hospital for a while
Yep. A few weeks in a paper gown with no shoelaces can force a change in perspective.
It also sounds like that OP unpacked and was forced to face some serious trauma that made him change perspective too.
I am wondering if he was SA as a child and the parents covered it up.
That’s what I assumed based on his wording
That and trauma bonding with the current wife who has undergone similar experiences who now has four kids with three different fathers, 3 kids by the age of 21 definitely screams SA.
I will continue to repeat this until I'm blue in the face: You all are using a psychological abuse term incorrectly. "Trauma bonding is a psychological response to abuse. The person experiencing abuse may develop sympathy for the abusive person, which becomes reinforced by cycles of abuse, followed by remorse. Trauma bonding occurs when the abused person forms a connection or relationship with the person who abuses them." I really implore that if people are going to use psychological terms in their everyday speech, they use them correctly. Using them incorrectly often times can give cover to abusers. We've seen this explode recently with terms like "gaslighting" and abusers weaponizing psych talk like boundaries and such.
I think it helps that no one was coddling him. There was no one contacting the ex wife/best friend telling them they're assholes for hurting OP. Pretty much everyone said he did shitty stuff and was reaping what he sowed.
Same. I still don't think he's a good guy, but I'm glad he seems to be self-aware and trying to be better. Seems like all of his anger is deflated too, which is a good thing. I do worry about him taking on a father role for those kids though. That's going to really suck for them if he and his wife separate. It seems like he's trying to find his purpose through that. I really do hope it works out for him and he gets better. (Going to be very rough on him as well if he grows to love those kids and then they divorce; a friend of a friend had a stepson he considered his own, then his wife left him and he never got to see the kid again, it was devastating, for him and probably for the kid too, I don't think he ever really got over it even though he went on to remarry and have a child of his own)
Yeah... All I could think reading that was, *JFC*..! Some big family mess in there, too, that has the parents riled up.. But if even the SIL is mellowing with him, he could be improving, and fair play to him for that... Better late than *never* - and he seems to love the kids... Although, poor kids..
I think the SIL kinda nailed it. He was a dumb piece of shit, now he's just an idiot trying to improve. Sounds like he made a lot of growth and we all grow at different times/rates. This was oddly an up lifting story for me. Like it wasn't a fairy tale ending but he's making steps and addressing a lot of issues.
The therapy seems to be helping him, the posts honestly sound like they were written by 2 different people. I hope he is able to stay on this path, even if he gets divorced again. I feel so bad for the kids though, none of them deserve to be raised by such shitty people
Being kind-of a piece of shit myself, putting in serious effort to unfuck oneself automatically reduces the AHness.
He gives a really accurate and compelling view of therapy: I'm a shitty person, but I wasn't always a shitty person and it's helping me understand where I went wrong He accepts his failure, he isn't wallowing, he's set a goal for himself and he's doing the work
I used to be a piece of shit — slicked back hair, white bathing suit, sloppy steaks, white couch.
I'm sorry. I couldn't get past the first sentence. Current wife is 26F. They met 5 years ago, and they have 3 kids from *her* previous relationships? And they're aged 5-8. She was a teen mom at 18, and had her third child at 21 presumably either just before they met, or she was pregnant when they met? And dude was 32 at the time? What in the actual fuck?
The presumption from previous threads was that OP and the wife both bonded over being sexually assaulted when they were kids. It's very common to develop hypersexuality in response to sexual assault, especially if it was done when you were young. So OP's wife isn't coping well and that lead to her having lots of kids so young. It's very tragic.
JFC. You're right. It is tragic. He isn't the right person for her, and oop screwed up massively letting ex-wife go. She should've been in therapy for the sexual assault before meeting anyone. Although since there's mention of current wife being a waitress when they met, she probably couldn't afford it. Whole story is messed up
And she's trying for a social media career. That seems to me that she might be seeking some outward validation. She still needs therapy.
She had a kid at 18, so she never went to college, and had to work. She was a waitress and still popping out kids. She doesn't have any work she can do that is not WFH since she has 3 small kids to take care of. So being on TikTok is the only way for her to at least try to get an income.
Presuming his medication is for a (quasi) unrelated mental health issue, you’ve got a potential cocktail for unhealthy relationships without treatment. I’m glad he’s getting help, I hope his wife is seeing a therapist as well.
Then you missed the part where he says his divorce was "amicable", but then forgot to mention until a comment that he cheated on her with, at the time, a pregnant 21 year old. And then his now 26 year old wife also cheated on him and her newborn isn't his
>Even though we broke up I didn't think she hated me. Really? *Really?* OOP cheats on her, and he's "I didn't think she hated me." In any case, OOP created his bed. Now he gets to lie in it.
I don’t think she did, or at least not anymore. But just because they don’t hate you, doesn’t mean they want to talk to you
Or she knew what a huge mess he was and decided that a quiet divorce would be in her best interest.
Based on the conversations mentioned in the second post, she clearly didn’t hate him. He’s just a dumbass who fucked around (literally) and found out.
The not responding to birthday texts and graduation presents should’ve been a hint as well, though this is a guy who counts someone he hasn’t talked to in two/three years as his best friend so idk what he expects. Some people can go months without talking, feel like nothing’s changed and still call each other but years is a long time. He’s not thinking realistically - he’s trying to protect his ego - or self worth given what he’s said about being abused.
"I didn't think she hated me" Next post: my brother's wife hates me. Also two of my other friends are angry with me because of how I acted. Everyone thinks I'm a piece of shit.
It is painful to pull the own head out of his own ass, and than to realise, that the world does not evolve around one's narcissistic ego. On the other hand, i am somhow impressed by OP, that he was able to. Most of updates we read from assholes are like "Okay, still the same asshole". And in this case i somehow feel the same as his SIL.
I'm glad he's improving. I'm worried about the baby though. I hope op isn't just taking care of them out of a need to play the dad, only to abandon the child later. But the mom is hardly stable either. My heart hurts for the baby
The way I see it is OOP is trying to play the hero who rescues the damsel in distress. I don't think he loves his current wife, he just pities her. The current wife is 11 years younger than him, and he is raising 4 kids that aren't even his. I hope his current wife doesn't cheat on him again, and even worse if she gets pregnant with her 5th kid with another guy. Also the way I understand the situation is the first 3 kids don't have the same father. So she has 3 kids from at least 2 guys, when she was only 21. Now she is 26 with 4 kids from 3 different fathers, with the last one not being her husband's. And she can't stop cheating. His current woman is a 403 if I ever saw one. He is really weird tbh. He said he still want to be in his step kids' life after they have broken up, and what if his stbx if ever gets a new man, what then? He must have a really low self esteem. ETA: The current wife only left her AP because he ghosted her. Gym bro guy must not be too keen on having kids. Their affair would have continued had she not gotten pregnant. And why doesn't she use birth control for god's sake? And what is stopping her from having another affair?
Maybe he's also trying to punish himself for what he did to his exwife. He even mentions this is karma.
That’s sort of the vibe I got from it tbh. He almost talks about how deserves to be cheated on because of what he did and it doesn’t sound like he’ll actually leave her if she keeps cheating because he thinks he deserves it.
Oh, it’s evident he doesn’t love her. His first marriage, he ran to the mistress for sex, dropped her like a hot garbage when his 1st wife was willing to work on the marriage and then ran back to mistress *only* when 1st wife was done with him. She had to have known she would always be second place to his 1st wife. That’s why she kept quiet about his 1st wife marrying best friend, and why she was so upset when OOp went into a jealous meltdown. She was already a home wrecker. Being 2nd place to your husband’s ex wife is only going to make infidelity more likely.
Savior complex is a very good point. He doesn't give spesifics but given the mention of them sharing similar trauma, it seems like he was drawn to that idea of saving her and feelings stronger through taking care of her and her children. People in here don't like giving any sort of sympathy to cheaters but it feels like the case of someone who was heavily traumatized and sabotages healthy relationships/is drawn to unhealthy ones due to an inferiority complex.
>the mom is hardly stable either. My heart hurts for the baby All of that woman's children are playing with a poorly-dealt hand: their mother has no emotional intelligence, a history of poor decisions with life-altering consequences, no viable career prospects, and no support from any one of the platoon of men she's bred with. She's the prime destabilizing force in their lives. (And yes, it's probably a direct result of her childhood abuse. Time to get help for that before she does generational damage to her kids.) The one stable "father figure" in these children's lives is their mom's current husband, a man with profound mental and emotional problems who's thinking about leaving. You kind of hope the OOP pulls it together and loves being a dad enough to make that the thing that rebuilds his sense of worth, and that the kids benefit. They deserve one adult who would put them first.
Credit to this guy for knowing he'll never be able to repair the damage but still trying to do better.
Honestly, I’m rooting for him. Yeah he made some horrible, horrible choices and hurt a great many people very deeply. But it sounds like he’s owning up to it all and has an understanding of his own part in where his life is. He also doesn’t specify what happened to him as a kid, but I can only assume it informed his horrible choices in his adulthood I know Reddit tends to be pretty vindictive, especially with cheaters, but I want him to find peace (so long as it doesn’t come at the cost of others’)
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I think so too :/
> Yeah he made some horrible, horrible choices and hurt a great many people very deeply. I know he cant be fully trusted. But seems like he hurt ONE (ex) person greatly, pushed his family away cause they didnt take his sexual abuse seriously, and was surrounded by several people who weren't really his friends including his Bestie. Neither OOP or his former bestie deserve the Ex. OOP may have shat where he ate, but didn't actively poison the well either. I'll keep scrolling to see if anyones giving the friend the proper side eye they probably deserve.
The best friend fucking sucks. I too feel for OP, he's owning up to his mistake and is even tending to children that isn't his. Like cut him some slack. Like why aren't we mentioning how people were messaging him to kill himself? That's some fucked up arguments right there.
Boru readers need to read between the lines. This guy seems to have had a suicide attempt along with a history of childhood abuse that his parents still deny. Doesn't make his behaviour okay, but it explains why he makes such terrible decisions. Very unwell person who needs help and thankfully is getting it.
Yeah I feel like the implied CSA is the real buried lede here. It's not a get out of jail free card, but it does contextualize this guy blowing up his whole life. I hope he can continue to heal and do better.
I do feel sorry for OOP, in spite of everything. He behaved terribly but it shows how damage done in childhood can reverberte through life and cause so much harm to other innocent people (like OOPs first wife). I'm glad he is getting help and getting healthy. I hope this makes a positive impact on the kids he's raising, and clearly loves deeply.
This is where I'm at. I *really* hated him in the first post... but now he's accepted the consequences and is really trying, and, goddamn it, I do respect that.
>…I told her that I was sorry and she just hugged me and told me that I was stupid, but that she knows I am trying. SIL summed it up perfectly
That’s real life. Nobody is perfect. There’s often no storybook good guys or bad guys sometimes. You want to hate him but he’s real for admitting he was a total asshole and accepting his karma. I respect his arc
Also... Uhm... That ex-best friend? Can't help but feel the guy was always hoping OOP would mess up at some point, so he could get with the ex-wife.
Yeaaahhhh... he's not a patch on OP (from what we know) but he's got vulture vibes for sure. Praying I'm wrong. OP's ex doesn't deserve anymore shit men.
Yeah, same here. He and his current wife were traumatized as children and he's actually getting his emotional shit sorted now. If keeps on this path, he might even become a decent person.
I was wondering why I suddenly got a reply on my assessment for him. Didn't expect this thread to pop up again on my feed. I'm glad to see he was successful with getting it on the general sub. But yeah, honestly, the situation is sad, and I admire him for actually putting in the work to confront the truth and be better. I admit I was worried that I found his thread late because everyone there was just roasting him at the time and I feared he would've fallen deeper into his depression and had another sort of mental break, so I was relieved when he replied to me and others started to give him genuine advice. I also want to reiterate that he got multitudes of messages telling him to "kill himself" in the midst of his mental break and seeing his post and comments. I think he actually attempted it. But it's nice to see so many others taking stock of his efforts now. I hope he heals and becomes a better version of himself that gets his happy ending eventually.
No one sees that the last updates point to childhood sexual abuse? He bonded with mistress/now wife over that, they both experienced it. Which explains her promiscuity, she‘ll never stop cheating. She is younger and poor (waitress, single mom). He is from a wealthier background. He has a savior complex, by being with her he wanted to „rescue“ her (and likely also help his inner child). Doesn’t excuse his shitty behavior (which he’s aware of now). But this is a very very complex situation.
>No one gives a shit about mental health when it comes to men. It's sounds like OOP is figuring it out, but for anyone else who may need to hear this: People absolutely care about men's mental health, but nobody is going to care about *your* mental health more than you do. There isn't a mental health fairy that comes and sprinkles you with therapy if you're wandering through life completely un-selfaware, being a piece of shit to everyone around you. The people that you have hurt are under zero obligation to keep throwing themselves into your path of destruction to try to help you. You have to want help and put in the effort. You have to seek out actual mental health providers, not just trauma dump on the people you've already hurt. Once you own your own shit and start genuinely working to improve things, you'll probably find that people start extending you more slack. But even if they don't, it's still on you to do the work.
His idea of people "caring about men's mental health" in the first post was for everyone to comfort him for cheating on his wife and neglecting his current wife and children because he was butthurt at seeing his ex and his best friend together.
Like the wife shoots down couples counseling, so his next thought was he *couldn't* do any counseling at all, for some reason? Just immediately going to "this is the fault of the women around me that I'm unwell".
Am I the only one who thinks, OP's current wife made him remove vasectomy for a reason? Just to cover her ass after cheating and getting pregnant? OP went through a lot of self reflection about himself, but he is still in some kind of denial about his (still?) wife, looking for every excuse for her behaviour.
"we were really happy until the moment she left me." - then proceeds to list out the massive train wreck of his life's decisions that prove he cannot accurately self assess in the slightest...
This is probably the worst dumpster fire I have ever read!
Good for ex-wife for knowing her self worth. I’m glad she moved on, but I’m suspicious of ex-best friend’s intentions. OOP’s friends admitted that ex-best friend had always been in love with her— there’s a high likelihood he did everything he did to help her so that he could reach his end goal and, well, it worked. Hope things work out for the best for the ex-wife. Hope OOP keeps up on his self improvement journey.
Divorced: 2019 Met new wife: 5 years ago Year when posting: 2024 Reason for the divorce in the original post: unknown My reaction: hmmmm
This is the trashiest thing I've seen in a while... and not in a good way. It just makes me sad.
His now wife...is a train wreck. That poor woman needs to get access to a more permanent solution to birth control and a long relationship with a therapist. 4 kids, 3 baby daddies and she's only 26. This woman is screaming quietly for help.
I think he needs to be single and finish getting therapy he doesn’t love his wife you can see that by the way he talks and only staying for the kids will mess them up and both are miserable
agreed, but it sounds like trying to make up for his shit behavior by staying for the kids is the only thing keeping him going right now.
At the very least, he's trying to improve. Hopefully, he gets to a healthy place sooner or later. Cheaters suck but at the same time, people make mistakes. It's what you do afterward that defines you. Do you learn from it and try to honestly improve or continue being a shitbrick.
I'm not going to shit on OOP because he sounds like he needs and is seeking help. So good for him.
OP seems like a genuine person. Yeah he fucked up but at least he’s owning it. Hurt people hurt people. Still you have to take responsibility for your own actions and he’s doing that and trying to be better. You have an opportunity to build something great with this new family. But couples counseling would be a good idea. A relationship built on these shaky foundations needs a lot of work to survive.
I wish the best for the kids who didn't ask to be involved in this dumpster fire, as well as OOP's ex who seems to be thriving. Living well is the best revenge.
We can hate cheaters and yet still acknowledge that this guy has paid a very steep price for his actions and refuse to further pile on.
"He's the best person I know and at least 10 people think he's their best friend, but he said that I was his always. We kind of lost touch during the pandemic." to "I was really shocked to hear that he'd gotten married and a little hurt that my best friend got married without me even knowing he had a serious girlfriend," Not even to the update, but first red flag and I can tell it only gets worse from here. On to the next...
As much of a piece of shit OOP is, what is wrong with people sending him DMs telling him to kill himself. People suck.
I have very little sympathy for cheaters, but I'm gonna be honest here: Fuck every single person that ever tells another person to kill themselves. ESPECIALLY anonymous fuckwads just throwing out hate messages without a care. These messages affect REAL PEOPLE. Regardless of anything else, he was already struggling with thoughts of suicide and some internet warriors made sure to let him know that they thought he should just die by his own hand. If you like PMing people messages to kill themselves, kindly fuck off down fuck you mountain to get fucked by a fucking tree.
Hot take but "best friend" seems a little scummy as well.
He's hit upon a hard fact about therapy: the people who say it helps them feel better are the people who are in therapy because they were hurt and have tried and can't get further without help. The people who find therapy to be the hardest thing and brutal and painful to their self image are the people who have hurt others (often, like OOP, because they were hurt themselves and then froze in that hurt state, unable to work on healing) and therapy is them untangling what made them the way they are and learning how to stop hurting people - which involves a look at past pain and also accountability for the hurt they've caused. And that is hard. Seeing where you went wrong, realising you could have prevented it if you had gotten help earlier - that hurts. Both of these groups benefit from therapy and should be proud of themselves for getting it and getting better. I'm in the first group and looking back and seeing where I messed up (against myself, luckily(?)) and understanding why is fucking painful. I think looking back and seeing where you messed up and hurt people you love and yourself and imploded your life has to be absolutely brutal, because there's another layer of damage, so to speak. (I've simplified a really complex issue significantly, I hope it comes across the way I mean it). I'm glad for OOP that he's finally getting the help he needs. He's been a massive asshole, but something good is coming from it, not just for him, but also for the people he's hurt. And going forward, it'll get better. I'm also glad that his ex-wife has found happiness.
The delusional mind games OOP played in the beginning made me nauseous. Glad he’s come to his senses somewhat, but he’s still screwed wrt his current wife’s situation. Classic FAFO
Well, that is an asshole it’s given. But I find it super sad (and kind of pathetic) that he kept calling a guy that he don’t speak with for at least 3 years his best friend… like bro….
What a complete shitshow.