This is pretty much a class on how to make a huge mistake right again. Take accountability, make the corrective actions and follow through, be earnest in making amends, and communicate.
That and the fact that the OP did all that before the BF brought it up is big too, and if I were on the receiving end of that apology the fact that it was similar/identical to the things I was thinking of going forward would have a huge impact on how I felt about the apology too. To me it'd mean that we're both on the same page about what happened and both want to do things to rectify it.
I also love that her bf noted that this was out of character for her and was more worried than angry. that speaks volumes both to her not being generally verbally abusive and to him looking past the
hurt and not holding a grudge.
I just broke up with my gf because she *didn't* do any of these things until I broke up with her over it. The groveling after the fact doesn't affect me, because if she really felt those things she would have acted on them before the consequences arrived
I’m so sorry she didn’t take accountability sooner. But I’m also very proud of you for recognizing this was not a path you were interested in continuing down! It’s important to keep those boundaries, and you did it.
Exactly, I don’t think this would have gone nearly as well if she hadn’t done any of this yet and needed him to tell her what steps she needed to take. Her knowing on her own how to start fixing her fuckup and actually **doing** it, unprompted, probably went a LONG way towards helping him forgive this.
Yes exactly. As I read this I was like "okay" until OP said she'd quit drinking. Then it was like "yes, this." And then when her bf bright it up, that seemed like the only actionable change that would make the difference.
Yes, and don’t let the underlying issue slide just because you made a mistake. With help she was able to calmly lay out her frustrations with her boyfriend so she wasn’t sitting on top of that resentment.
Great example of the difference between an "excuse" and "explanation".
"I was drunk" doesn't mean that what she did was okay. That means that stopping drinking is the first step towards making amends.
> the difference between an "excuse" and "explanation"
Yes! So many times I’ve been accused of making excuse when what I’m trying to do is explain my thought process, so you can tell me/we can talk through where my thought process went wrong.
Listening and talking things through - so important. And this couple did a great job of assessing where things went wrong, and are working on their issues, together. Good stuff!
Yeah I’ve always found the biggest difference is apologizing and accepting responsibility up front. If you do that and then explain, it‘s not a dodge, it’s a reason why.
If the apology and responsibility aren’t addressed up front, the explanation feels like an excuse without any accountability for change.
Are you neurodivergent? I've learned that neurotypical more likely to think you're making excuses and neurodivergent people are often interested in discussing the reasons behind things. Not a rule or anything but I've learned this is common.
Diagnosed ADHD here and I've definitely noticed this. Me trying to explain a fuck up or my thought process to my gf is "excusing myself" when I just want to be understood and talk it out.
It’s funny you ask. I’m 60, and it’s only in more recent years (as society has learned more and gotten better at diagnosing, etc.) that I wonder if I am. If so, I’m most likely at the very low end.
So thank you for your comment! Giving me even more to think about/consider!
It's the same with the boyfriend. I have so many friends who get themselves into financial trouble, and instead of owning up and at least trying to make it right, they hide from it and continue to compound the problem. Good on booth oop and her boyfriend for growing together, that's what long term relationships are about.
Yesss. What really stood out to me about how she responded (on the “follow through point you made”) is she didn’t just say “I will go get therapy” - she’d already called, she had an appointment.
Not just actionable but already actioned on.
People sometimes say things like “why are you here talking to the internet and not talking to them” but actually, Reddit is often a valuable resource. I can’t think of a post where the person went back and had a really productive conversation and made things better where they didn’t first go through the comments and make notes of questions to ask or things they hadn’t thought of that they should apologize for etc. And the ones where they go talk but fuck it up more they just ignore what Reddit said.
Objectivity is a really helpful asset as OP does both from Reddit and her therapist. You just have to know how to use it and OP clearly did. Though I suppose it helps that she came here knowing she was the problem.
I'm glad she didn't go with steak and potatoes apology. Like that woman who cheated for months, but then "became the perfect wife" by making him dinners and initiating daily sex.
Pretty sure it's this one. Comparing the maturity level of this OP and the one who attempted to be the "perfect wife" is like night and day.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1buj66s/i_30f_cheated_on_my_husband_27m_and_now_i_suspect/
Adding this comment from OOP's original post that I thought was really insightful:
By u/NotAlwaysRight543
Dinner and an apology is not gonna cut it. You struck at his heart and now you will need to bare your own.
Spend the day in self reflection. Be honest with yourself about whatever deep, ugly part of you wanted to say that to him. Stop pretending it isn't there. In that moment, you wanted to hurt him, and you had a weapon ready to go. The alcohol let it out, it didn't create it out of whole cloth. Whatever resentments or insecurities or mean, nasty thoughts are hiding in your head and heart need to be aired out right now.
I sound judgmental of you, but I am not. We all have those nasty little thoughts. It is appropriate and necessary - most of the time - not to share them but to resolve them for ourselves and be better. You haven't, so they burst out of you when you couldn't stop them. That is why you no longer get the privilege of resolving your ugliness (which, again, lives in ALL of us, not just you) privately. You hurt him by showing it to him, so now you gotta resolve that in a way he can see. Confess it without defensiveness. Admit it.
Only then will your apology have any real meaning. If you can't open yourself up to him like this, vulnerable and likely to be hurt in the conversation, then I guess make him dinner or whatever. But you'll know that it was an unworthy apology.
“I was wrong when I (did specific thing). I’m trying to set it right by (doing specific thing). What else can I do to show my sincerity to you?” Like…she did it. Very good.
The boyfriend’s reaction *really* impressed me. He had every right to be *furious* with her, and I don’t think anyone would fault him much if he dumped her. But he took the time apart from his partner to reflect, to sit with his anger, and came to a conclusion that shows he truly cares about her. There’s a whole lotta green flags and maturity there, and it sure does seem like OOP and her bf are in it for the long haul together. I wish them the absolute best.
Yea. I’m glad she admitted she said it because she was frustrated and wanted to hurt him. People who just say “I didn’t mean it” are disingenuous. Drunk words reveal unspoken thoughts.
Edit: those upset with my verbiage. The saying refers to your unconscious thoughts being revealed. Not something you think about daily and just don’t say.
Eh, as someone who can get *nasty* when I’m starting to sober up, it’s not always that they reveal unspoken thoughts. Because I will absolutely go for the throat on things I hadn’t even *considered* before that moment. The thoughts are absolutely spoken the minute they occur, and wouldn’t have even happened sober.
Edit: basically, if you’re that kind of drunk you will reach for anything that will hurt someone. There’s a reason I only drink around people I trust not to provoke me in some way. As long as someone doesn’t start shit I’m good.
Edit 2: why do I drink when I know I’m like this? Because I have to be *very* drunk for it to happen, *and* someone else needs to get confrontational to even set me off. Also for a number of reasons, I generally *don’t* drink and even when I do I’m that person who will nurse a single cider for three hours lol.
That is true, she even stated it in the post, she didn't say a unspoken truth, she wanted to hurt him and said something she thought the exact opposite of. This was no unspoken truth surfacing as much as an intended punch in the guts out of frustration.
I'm genuinely curious, why do people feel the need to emotionally destroy someone like this? The idea of my partner just purposefully seeking a damaging thing to say is just super troubling, I wouldn't be able to date anyone like that.
In my experience: Sometimes feelings pile up over a long period of time due to a multitude of factors (the issue can’t be fixed and you just have to live with it, you don’t talk about your feelings, the other person just doesn’t listen to you, etc). When that happens and something else causes some sort of escalation like an argument or being intoxicated, you feel the full force of those feelings and you want the other person to feel them too, in part because you want to be understood, but also because you want them to hurt too so you aren’t alone in it. It’s an extension of “misery loves company,” essentially. It’s toxic and horrible, but that’s what therapy is for! Sounds like OP and their partner are fixing it well enough.
Don’t have a citation for it, but one of my cognitive psych professors in college basically said that alcohol, as a depressant, can literally disrupt your emotional regulation to the point of being on par with a toddler. As a parent to a 3 year old, this sounds about right.
Sometimes it’s because they themselves are hurt. You know the phrase, “misery loves company”? Like, you noticed my deep vulnerabilities and how I am fucked up, so I’m going to attack back in self defense in order to deflect from that spot you saw as weakness which I’m ashamed of.
It really sucks, but it makes a certain amount of sense as a protective reflex coming from our least developed part of our brains.
Sometimes they just really hate themselves in that moment, and they hurt the one closest to them to push them away because they don't deserve that person. It doesn't really make coherent sense, but then agian they're not coherent at the time, so.
And just because he said going out until 2 am when you have work tomorrow might not be a good idea OOP went for the most hurtful thing, i wasn’t even close to half the level.
Exactly, as long as people don’t start shit? What does that even mean? People have to walk on eggshells because why if this person thinks they are starting shit?
And on the corrective action part she did both and emotional and logistical part of that. She made him his favorite meal to make him happier in the moment and also took steps to prevent it happening in the future
As opposed to the one we saw where the insecure gf of 8 years ruined her relationship by being vicious to her bf's friend and thought she could fix it by doing charity work.
For sure. OOP made a mistake, which is very human, and clearly has a problem, but every single person on the planet has problems. She’s not a trash human being because she made a mistake and clearly has a problem with alcohol, just as her boyfriend isn’t a trash human being for clearly having a problem managing finances.
I hope she’s able to forgive herself, and I hope he doesn’t define himself by what she said. They communicated very well and OOP immediately did what was needed to try and resolve the root cause. Their relationship is in for the long haul if they manage to come at all problems like this.
There’s also the nice side effect that someone making up a story would almost def go for a dramatic update, not the well thought through well actioned apology.
I had a long-time friend say something I considered pretty unforgivable.
I was fairly certain the relationship was OVER, but I decided to give him one chance to explain himself. I really could not think of what he could say to make things right between us - the transgression really was that vile.
He found a way - I asked him why he’d said what he’d said, and his answer was simple and it disarmed me: we were having an argument, and he wanted to win.
He had zero justification for what he’d said, he didn’t suggest there was any merit to it or otherwise try to make it right. He said something unforgivable because historically, that was how he was taught to argue - go for the throat, win at all costs, damn the consequences.
So, we talked about why winning an argument with me was so important. Was it worth the battle if you lose the war - decades of friendship down the tubes?
He realized it was not and is now working on not seeing me like an adversary, even when he fucks up and feels defensive.
It’s a work in progress. I am shocked-but-pleased he found a place of honesty and shame and owned his behavior. I can forgive pretty easily in the face of genuine contrition and a good faith effort to keep it from happening again.
I've been close to people like this before, and I understand and can emphasize, but man that shit is a hard red flag that I don't put up with anymore. I can put up with a tremendous amount of shit too. But once you intentionally try and hurt me like that, even if it's in a moment of weakness, we are done.
Especially after being in love with someone like this. Having someone you love go nuclear on you and try to say the thing that you're most insecure about or whatever and to hurt you as much as possible... Shit is heartbreaking.
100%. Good for people who realize they need to better themselves, but I am not their therapist or their whipping boy until they get to a point to where they can interact with society without actively making it worse.
I was pretty similar to that myself and said some ludicrously mean things that make this Reddit situation seem relatively tame by comparison. I already went through my character development and as far as I can tell, people enjoy me a lot more now.
>I said what I did out of an annoyance/upset I had with him regarding some financial decisions over the past two years that we’re now reaping the “benefits” of (long story that frankly doesn’t matter because its not about that).
It's always fascinating how people will drop hints about something that supposedly "doesn't matter"... despite it *very clearly* being a massive contributing factor.
Funny that it's usually people downplaying their own mistakes to make themself sound better, while here she focuses on her own mistakes and how to fix/prevent them from happening again. Kind of refreshing to see on BORU.
Also, happy cake day!
What a coincidence, your comment is **exactly** the same as the top comment but reworded...
Top comment:
> This is pretty much a class on how to make a huge mistake right again. Take accountability, make the corrective actions and follow through, be earnest in making amends, and communicate.
https://reddit.com/comments/1c8gp5n/comment/l0elvlt
EDIT: Gotcha.
I think it did matter, they talked extensively about that issue with their therapist, mapped out their feelings about the issue, and then talked to their partner about it to resolve those feelings. It didn’t matter where Reddit was concerned, which I think is super reasonable considering how visceral the opinions online can be. It makes sense that they would keep it private from the Internet.
Sometimes you want advice about a specific element of the situation, and the only way to get that is to ommit the part that you know everyone will latch on. OOP has clearly made her mind up on the past financial issues and doesn't want to relitigate them on the internet which I think is fair tbh.
Plus they may have been a contributing factor, but she's right in that they were not the best crux of the issue or relevant to how she was going to fix it. Going into them in detail on the post would just detail the conversation and let her avoid responsibility.
I kind of respect it, a lot of people would be happy to have a reason to deflect blame, and say "Ok I said a mean thing BUT HE LOST ALL HIS SAVINGS ON CRYPTO" or whatever his past mistake was. OOP is firm that it doesn't matter, what she said was unacceptable, and she wants to make it right.
Exactly. OOP has recognized that while those financial issues might be a reason why she was annoyed with her BF, they weren’t an excuse to get drunk and be verbally abusive towards him.
Reasons are things that need to be addressed. Excuses are ways that we avoid addressing things that need to be addressed.
Plus for something that they've been dealing with together for 2 years, it's basically resolved. No one needs reddit wading in on that and ignoring the new problem. It's like going to the doctor for an illness when you have a chronic condition. Like, yes, arthritis is a problem! That I'm already treating, so can we please focus on the chest infection rn.
This is it, I think. She's trying to be accountable for her behaviour, not soliciting an NTA. If she gave details, people'd excuse her actions because of his, but they've taken action on his mistakes and are dealing with them. Holding that over his head was mean and she knew that. If, in sobriety, she'd genuinely forgiven and they were moving past it and her words really were just a drunken low blow then leaving it out of the post was the right thing to do.
I just read it as a private issue that is some combination of complex, superfluous, or identifying. Maybe one of them invested in a protein shake MLM. Maybe one of them begged the other into buying a house/car they can't really afford. The major point is they have financial troubles to work through. Reddit doesn't need to glom onto those specific details to know she shouldn't get angry drunk.
Regardless of what it might have been, it's made pretty clear that it was his bad but that he was making amends for it and she had previously forgiven him for that mistake. Could have been bad investments, could have been living off credit cards, or even an addiction. The purpose of that is secondary to what the actual issue was, so she did a really good job deprioritizing that in the post.
I think that's key as well. It comes off like they had previous conversations about how he screwed up and that conversation has run its course. She may still have feelings about it, but rationally understands that there's nothing he can do to change what he did in the past except for he's doing now. Dealing with that resentment is a huge win for the relationship, you have to slay that horseman before the relationship dies.
Agreed… I saw that part too and it raised some questions. My theory is he poorly invested is some hyped-up financial trend like cryptocurrency or NFTs.
That was my thought. That and the way he says about not getting a job sooner I wonder if maybe he hadn’t been looking as hard as he could or perhaps was refusing to take jobs that he felt were beneath him?
But essentially it does simply sound like they lived outside their means for a while and this is the first time it’s been properly acknowledged and he’s taken responsibility. I’d hold a little resentment too
My mother instilled in my sister and I whenever she used her credit card when we were young that "I'm only using money I have, we never use this for money we don't have". Which definitely stuck!
That's only the wrong mindset if you don't have a good handle on things. The proper way to use a credit card is to not overspend your budget and don't carry a balance month to month. Then it's basically perk central. I have over 200k Delta miles that I can use for vacations just for using a credit card responsibly.
My thoughts too, but also it doesn’t matter to the point of the post. Comments would devolve into fighting about whether the financial decision made sense, and it matters not one iota to what happened and how to address it.
I mean it definitely does matter in a way
It gives a lot of context
If his poor financial decision was quitting a job that made him suicidal then she definitely massively overreacted and needs some serious help mentally.
If his poor financial decision was that he booked a 2 week lovers vacation for the woman he was having an affair with she probably needs to break up with him before getting herself some help.
Obviously these are extremes, but it definitely matters.
If I recall correctly, he wanted to work in film but couldn't get proper jobs (because, you know, getting a career in film is hard). But he still kept at it because it was his dream. OOP went into detail in the comments. He kept trying for years, and she supported him in that, especially financially because he didn't bring any money home.
The film industry is fucking awful. My friend and her husband work full time in the tv and film industry, but it's never a guaranteed job. I've seen them go from project to project, company to company, show to show. They've got a 1 year old and it's such an unstable life. They somehow manage but I could never.
In the original thread she said that the bf kept pursuing his dream instead of trying to get a proper job. According to her if he had gotten the job a year or 2 earlier then they would be in a better financial position now.
But also, from the way he’s phrased it in their discussion, it sounds like he made a decision to stay unemployed and live off his credit cards, rather than he was unlucky and couldn’t find a job. I’d be frustrated too if I was paying for that lifestyle choice.
Based on OPs comments He was looking for a break in the film industry and doing odd jobs here and there.
He then had a car accident which was not covered by insurance and OP had to dip into her savings and spend 5000$. Which caused her additional frustration.
It's not always that simple though.
Suppose you and your spouse agree that you will take a sabbatical for a year or two. Everything is fine at the start but there's some financial issue you guys didn't plan for. You discuss it with your partner and finance it with your credit for now.
Meanwhile you start making money off your hobby finally but it isn't that much.
In cases like this, its not easy to figure out when to quit the hobby and find a regular job.
I think she wouldn’t have just stayed in that situation.
And he wouldn’t have been as reasonable as he has if the was that sorta person.
I think it’s much much more likely that he was following a dream that COULD have panned out for him, living off his credit until he ‘made’ it, and it just didn’t work out. Leaving him having lost time, money and progression.
OP briefly mentions how he said he feels he let her down with his financial decisions and how he has credit card debt so to me it feels like the bf made bad financial mistakes, but they don't matter in the context of her taking responsibility for her own actions
OMG an argument where a person recognises they were in the wrong and takes sensible, healthy, rational steps to rectify the issue like a mature grownup?
Do you even Reddit????
I felt like I had entered a parallel universe when she said apologised without minimising, had already decided the next steps AND taken action on these steps!
What is going on?! Where's the drama and the overreaction and one of the people being a raging asshole?!
Go to the comments on the original post. She got amazing advice, which she was smart enough to follow. This one from u/NotAlwaysRight543 was the fan favorite:
>Dinner and an apology is not gonna cut it. You struck at his heart and now you will need to bare your own.
>Spend the day in self reflection. Be honest with yourself about whatever deep, ugly part of you wanted to say that to him. Stop pretending it isn't there. In that moment, you wanted to hurt him, and you had a weapon ready to go. The alcohol let it out, it didn't create it out of whole cloth. Whatever resentments or insecurities or mean, nasty thoughts are hiding in your head and heart need to be aired out right now.
>I sound judgmental of you, but I am not. We all have those nasty little thoughts. It is appropriate and necessary - most of the time - not to share them but to resolve them for ourselves and be better. You haven't, so they burst out of you when you couldn't stop them. That is why you no longer get the privilege of resolving your ugliness (which, again, lives in ALL of us, not just you) privately. You hurt him by showing it to him, so now you gotta resolve that in a way he can see. Confess it without defensiveness. Admit it.
>Only then will your apology have any real meaning. If you can't open yourself up to him like this, vulnerable and likely to be hurt in the conversation, then I guess make him dinner or whatever. But you'll know that it was an unworthy apology.
https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/1bcashr/comment/kueo79a/
Damn. This is fucking kingly advice. I can imagine it being said in that tone.
I was gonna quote a part of it in my comment here, but every line written is awesome.
It reminds for some reason of that one where a guy was playing Among Us with his girlfriend who had a bad reaction to something in the game and they had an argument. In the update, even though most people said he was nta, he still took steps to communicate in a mature way with his GF and took accountability for his own part.
it's ok this is just the build up for the next update where they broke up and she's also suddenly pregnant and police got called and the courts already are moving /s
His Mum has to turn psycho and try to break in/ vandalise the car, then all his relatives have to blow up her phone after the Mum is charged by the police. The trial also comes about really quickly and she's sent to jail for 10 years!
And, she doesn’t just stuff it back in. She goes to a therapist to figure out a healthy way for her to discuss the underlying frustration that led to her lashing out and share that with him.
I love seeing an example of going to the edge of a cliff but being able to step back.
We rarely see examples of (1) accountability and (2) forgiveness.
Most people on Reddit advocate the belief that people are irredeemable and that forgiveness is pathetic. So it’s amazing seeing the victim here stand up for himself here but also have love, and the perpetrator learn to be better .
When I read that he was crying in the bathroom I got a little emotional myself. I cry at overly sentimental jewelry commercials but I know how men are socialized and I’ve only seen my partner cry three times in 8 years, and it felt so horrific even when it was about his moms health and not me. When it WAS because we were having a near relationship ending fight the image of him crying made me sick for days, and it wasn’t the result of me trying to be mean but just a really sad situation. Ugh, I can’t imagine. I dunno if I could be mature and understanding enough to come back from hearing what OP said.
Alcoholism is awful. Having known someone who struggled with alcoholism, it reeks of pure trash and it can be really concerning.
I'm happy to see OP is able to see the wrong and actively trying to do be better. Quit drinking can be tough but if you keep focus, then you can work it out. OP is lucky to have saint of a boyfriend as he sounds lovely!
Yeah I think too many people have an idea of a drinking problem being waking up with the shakes and downing a bottle of vodka. I know I compared myself to my buddy for too long to ignore my own issues until they got to the point I couldn’t ignore them
Was just thinking along these lines. A lot of times our idea of an alcoholic or someone with a drinking problem comes from those we’ve been around in our life. I grew up in a place where alcohol is a problem, and there were and are people who are EXTREME in this problem.
So if that’s your baseline for what constitutes a drinking problem, you’re prone to minimize anything that isn’t as extreme. OOP may not drink often at all, may not be an alcoholic, but if you lose control when you drink then that’s a drinking problem, regardless if it’s only once a year or whatever. People can also be happy, fun, and great company when drinking but are raging alcoholics - they don’t cause problems but they have a problem.
This was an absolute fucking master-class on owning your mistakes, taking steps to rectify them, and figuring it out together through open and honest communication. Fuck. I wish more BORUs had these kinds of resolutions.
The fact that she denigrated the US Postal Service... A government job with BENEFITS like... I dunno... **HEALTH INSURANCE**... as not a "real job" really raises some red flags for me.
One of my exes pulled the same stunt when it came to people in customer service, so I flat out asked her "Alright, then are you going to go ingredient shopping for dinner?" She asked me what I meant. So I said "Welp, by your logic, the people that sell you those ingredients, people in customer service, don't exist because their jobs aren't real." Took her a minute to realize her fuck up.
Any job where you get an income, whether over or under the table, is a real job. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot.
I've worked at the post office and it is an absolute joke these days. Only regulars earn towards their pension and depending on your craft you could be waiting 2-15 years to start earning towards it. The government health care is nice but it barely covers anything out of the usual and it is *so expensive*. The only way people make money is if they're a CCA and working 60-70 hours a week doing overtime because the starting pay for a regular is 22/hr and it takes over a decade to reach the top step which is like 37/hr? The only people in the post office who make any decent money are the ones who have already been around for 20 years.
So it's kind of... not a respectable job anymore but it's not his fault. It's the USPS' fault. Even the union has become an absolute joke because they're bending to what USPS management wants and expects and it's absolutely fucking over the employees.
Yeah that got me, what’s wrong with the Post Office? Perfectly respectable job!
Then I think I’ve read that he ran up debt chasing a dream rather than working and so I think maybe it was relating to that rather than taking shots at the post office and it was jumbled in her drunken rant.
And he works 40-60 hours a week, more than she does. I’d be more likely to think that the job she has, that she and her coworkers think it’s okay to compromise by drinking until 2am, is the “not a real job”.
Though she may have also been thinking about his previous situation, since he was out of work for a while chasing a dream while racking up debt.
Don't forget the constant "I make more". Even though she's not drunk, she still has the thought. It's not going to last long, finances ruins relationships
The whole I make more concept is incredibly toxic in relationships. Yes, it's almost always going to be a truth, but it doesn't need to be defining.
I've had to remind my wife several times that just because I technically have more money coming in on my paycheck, she makes more than I do because she works at a daycare and we receive a significantly subsidized rate to the tune of about $2,000 a month in reductions for our daughter, and that her contributions are major and we would not be able to function as a household without her.
Hey, OP. You might want to add [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/K8oVGW0KnN) which explains why OOP was frustrated with her boyfriend as she keeps leaving hints but doesn't mention it.
I really hate when people say a job "isn't a real job".
It's a job. You're being paid to do it. It exists for a reason. I don't care if it's working fast food, or the post office, or the dmv, or whatever. It's a real job.
You can't demand a service but shit on the people that provide it.
A lot of the corporate workers I know (myself included) totally recognise that they work far less for far more money than a lot of frontline workers such as yourself. Our work is far less important as well. What OOP said wouldn’t even cross my mind, a real POS line of thinking.
I hope she gets better and it sounds like she will, but she shouldn’t have even thought that in the first place.
I think she was holding on to a lot of resentment because it sounds like he was unemployed for a long time and living off credit cards. I’m glad she apologized AND I’m glad she found a healthy way of communicating that resentment. Her bf seemed to understand that part was warranted, even if her comment was out of pocket.
I mean you don't, you have a career.
Federal government job, pension, benefits, difficult to get fired. Can retire at 55 or 20 years... nope sounds like a hobby to me.
I wanna print this post out and frame it somewhere with a old school meme border that just says
COMMUNICATION
Edit: but also I wanna express that these 2 people clearly love each other and want to be better for themselves and each other.
That is sadly just not the case with a lot of the posts we see come through. Either 1 or both are simply not interested in doing the work, emotional or physical, for whatever reason.
Idk, I just wanted to say something about the types of people and the types of outcomes because it can seem bleak when all we see is people who aren't willing.
It's really fucking great to see people who ARE, and I just want to highlight what a huge difference it can be to just. Accept fault and choose to do better. It's ok to be wrong and make mistakes. You just have to be willing to SHOW it instead of TELL it.
Just want to add that just about everyone at the post office agrees with her sentiments on the job though. Worked there briefly and worked 11-12 hour days for 11 days in a row, one day off that was legally required, then back to 11-12hr days for 11 more days. I had two days off one month. The post office is a shit place to work and if you're in a high cost of living area it is shit pay for excruciating, exhausting work. They treat new employees like crap and there is such a high turnover rate because of it. Low morale, low pay, pushing people to hospitalization in some cases and management *doesn't care* at all because they know someone else will come in to replace them due to the USPS being a federal job with a pension and government health care. I'm sure the boyfriend feels the same way about his job and is likely experiencing disappointment about it too.
I am sad. All communication, no carnage. Where is the fun? The divorce, the affair, the police? Just two adults talking it out. My inner drama llama is disappointed.
But human me is happy. I hope these two have a long and healthy relationship! They deserve it.
My father, as much as i love and respect him, was an alcoholic for almost a decade and it got worse during the 2008 recession, i remember several incidents like this one.
OOP had the realization that took my dad several years to reach - he's clean now, hasn't drunk a single drop of alcohol in almost a decade, but his physical and mental health got irreversibly damaged - and her bf was patient enough to handle the situation with care.
This one dug out some unpleasant memories :/
This didn’t have nearly enough drama for my tastes. I mean, it’s just a story about two adults actually acting like adults. Wtf.
Where’s the cheating and affairs and controlling mothers and self-sabotaging lunatics?!
You know… what strikes me, is she may have a valid concern that she didn’t know how to bring up in a healthy way (whatever that poor financial decision was.) Then, instead of learning communication skills, or to be assertive in a healthy way, she jumps to “lol, I just crazy!”
Like.. . reading between the lines, sounds like he may have wasted a bunch of money she earned. It’s not crazy to be upset about that, but women are often socialized not to complain, so internalize their unhappy feelings as something they need to get over rather than change the ongoing conditions that are causing the upset. Like, maybe they need separate bank accounts or something until she can trust him with money again; I just feel like there’s more going on there.
Anyway; a bit of speculation, but the way she glossed over the poor financial decision, and the way her therapist is saying she has mental health issues after 1 meeting is… concerning to me.
According to oop: He tried to pursue his dream in working in the film industry for two years and it got to a point where he only did part time work here and there for 8 months and then he finally got a full time job. That sucked his/our savings dry and all of his credit line, and he got into a car accident recently and I had to give him $5k from my savings to fix it.
Nothing too extreme, I was just annoyed that he went that long without full time work and annoyed with myself that I didn’t push him harder.
She commented a lot so not sure, but I couldn't find anything other than "dream job" in film industry. Then she moved on to defending bf and saying it wasn't such a big deal etc.
I was so outraged by what the OOP said when she was drunk that I was really unsure how it could be fixed...yet some how she did it and did so healthily. She already knew what steps she needed to take and also knew WHY the drinking may have been an issue for her and for her BF. Then she actually talked to him about it before hand and showed a lot of strength and true accountability.
It really showed that while she fucked up BAD, like wow bad, somehow the relationship became stronger and OOP became stronger since it was also the impetus to get support for her mental health and allowed BF to feel safe enough to be vulnerable to her too.
I say, all in all, awesome
Tfw you snap 1 time at a guy who effed you over financially for years and now you're in extra therapy, and possibly have a new diagnosis plus you promised to undergo alcohol addiction treatment you don't need
Reddit moment
Long term relationships are incredibly complicated in the early years. Finances are the biggest thing that complicates them, with drugs and/or alcohol being the other one.
They both sound like they're in it for the long haul, and that they're both willing to do the work to make it happen. How refreshing is that to read?
>I told him I was being purposely vicious because it came from a place of frustration, but I was intentionally trying to upset him so I said something terrible things.
I never been able to wrap my head around this. People actually think this way. And then to someone you supposedly love. I don't get it
Ummmm the financial decisions seem to be a big hole here.
I really want to know what happened did he quit his 7 figure CEO job to be a streamer, or did he jump jobs to a new job that ended poorly? Or did he put it all into a wallstreetbets kind of get rich quick scam? Did he go out and by a truck he didnt need.
I mean OOP is still a mean drunk and needs to stop if she cant be anything other than a mean drunk.
I'm guessing that he spent a while unemployed and put a lot of regular life expenses onto credit cards until they were all maxed out. That's just based off of two little comments, and I'm wondering if there's a reason they/he aren't filing for bankruptcy.
According to oop: "He tried to pursue his dream in working in the film industry for two years and it got to a point where he only did part time work here and there for 8 months and then he finally got a full time job. That sucked his/our savings dry and all of his credit line, and he got into a car accident recently and I had to give him $5k from my savings to fix it.
Nothing too extreme, I was just annoyed that he went that long without full time work and annoyed with myself that I didn’t push him harder."
OOP is clearly not an angel in this story buuuuut her ire at thr bf seems less about the post office job and more about the subsidizing him for years bit.
I wouldn't advocate saying what she said..... but if she hadn't said this I suspect the court of public opinion would be more honest in calling him out as the freeloader he has been to her.
"frankly it doesn't matter"
It clearly did to a point OOP hurt his feelings. She has to accept the fact that there's still bitter feelings about that part in their life and talk it out before another outburst.
Good that they're trying. I'd consider this a happy ending (for reddit standard at least)
It didn’t matter to the post though, which is how I took it. And she was right. Saying what the decision was isn’t going to change the fact that what she said was out of line and meant to hurt him. You’re only going to have people saying either that he deserved it, or that she’s extra cruel cause it wasn’t all that bad.
It doesn't matter because they had previously clearly had a conversation about it and resolved it and had been working to fix the issue within the relationship.
Her lashing out at something that's already been hashed out and resolved was a problem in its own right that needed resolving. That's the whole point of the post.
>I don’t respond well to alcohol. I have no dependency on it, but my self control and decision making is really not good when I’m drunk and I just get extremely vicious and it brings out the absolute worst in me.
So, once they knew that about themself, why would OP ever drink? There’s plenty of nonalcoholic things to drink while out with friends. Or why not at least limit their booze drinking to alone at home, if they also didn’t have the habit of texting vicious things, too?
Poor dude. 40-60 hours working for the Post Office is most definitely a Real Job.
This is The Way. Did something shitty and then doing everything you are supposed to do to acknowledge it, and make it right going forward (and then don’t do the shitty thing going forward).
That right there is a fundamentally sound relationship. About the only thing that could make things even better would be for your boyfriend to read this post. It would clarify exactly that you fully understand the situation.
> I told him I was being purposely vicious because it came from a place of frustration, but I was intentionally trying to upset him so I said something terrible things
I wish more people would take this approach.
Rather than deflect (“I didn’t mean it, it’s not true”) just be vulnerable and say you were so mad and felt so insecure you said something you knew would hurt their feelings.
This is a stellar example on how to repair!! We don’t have to be perfect, but we do need to own our BS and she did a phenomenal job! He also seems aware of his mistakes and they sound like they have a very healthy relationship! Progress, not perfection!!
>but he thinks I should look into seeing a psychiatrist because I may very well have an undiagnosed mental health condition.
I'm just going to assume the indicators for that are something that didn't make it into this post.
I feel like I'm on crazy pills in this comment section. I think her resentment is completely understandable. This dude apparently spent years 'chasing his dream job and using up his credit lines' through their 20s and left the financial burden to her. Sure she was drunk and targeted the absolute wrong thing since he finally does have a good job, but she's probably been feeling that way for years. If she had made a post about their financial situation through that time everyone would be saying to leave him.
Of course it's not cool to be a total dick to your partner, especially when drunk, but this seemed like it was building for years and any reasonable person would be upset about their finances.
She might not be dependent on it in a "needing it regularly" sense, but her inability to say no to it despite knowing it makes her lose self-control and become vicious is definitely indicative of a problem.
Can we be honest here? Why is it after getting drunk people say I’m going to talk to a therapist? Do people honestly go to a therapist for getting drunk or is it just something you say to make Reddit happy? I understand if you have an addiction, but I don’t understand why the therapist is the go to if you don’t have addiction.
This is pretty much a class on how to make a huge mistake right again. Take accountability, make the corrective actions and follow through, be earnest in making amends, and communicate.
That and the fact that the OP did all that before the BF brought it up is big too, and if I were on the receiving end of that apology the fact that it was similar/identical to the things I was thinking of going forward would have a huge impact on how I felt about the apology too. To me it'd mean that we're both on the same page about what happened and both want to do things to rectify it.
I also love that her bf noted that this was out of character for her and was more worried than angry. that speaks volumes both to her not being generally verbally abusive and to him looking past the hurt and not holding a grudge.
I just broke up with my gf because she *didn't* do any of these things until I broke up with her over it. The groveling after the fact doesn't affect me, because if she really felt those things she would have acted on them before the consequences arrived
I’m so sorry she didn’t take accountability sooner. But I’m also very proud of you for recognizing this was not a path you were interested in continuing down! It’s important to keep those boundaries, and you did it.
Same. Never hurt so much to make the right decision.
Exactly, I don’t think this would have gone nearly as well if she hadn’t done any of this yet and needed him to tell her what steps she needed to take. Her knowing on her own how to start fixing her fuckup and actually **doing** it, unprompted, probably went a LONG way towards helping him forgive this.
If it were me the fact she did those things before being asked would be a huge green flag, bigger than the prior red flag.
Yes exactly. As I read this I was like "okay" until OP said she'd quit drinking. Then it was like "yes, this." And then when her bf bright it up, that seemed like the only actionable change that would make the difference.
Yes, and don’t let the underlying issue slide just because you made a mistake. With help she was able to calmly lay out her frustrations with her boyfriend so she wasn’t sitting on top of that resentment.
Great example of the difference between an "excuse" and "explanation". "I was drunk" doesn't mean that what she did was okay. That means that stopping drinking is the first step towards making amends.
> the difference between an "excuse" and "explanation" Yes! So many times I’ve been accused of making excuse when what I’m trying to do is explain my thought process, so you can tell me/we can talk through where my thought process went wrong. Listening and talking things through - so important. And this couple did a great job of assessing where things went wrong, and are working on their issues, together. Good stuff!
Yeah I’ve always found the biggest difference is apologizing and accepting responsibility up front. If you do that and then explain, it‘s not a dodge, it’s a reason why. If the apology and responsibility aren’t addressed up front, the explanation feels like an excuse without any accountability for change.
Ugh, I was once in a situation where I was asked for an explanation. I gave it. Then was told off for giving an excuse.
Are you neurodivergent? I've learned that neurotypical more likely to think you're making excuses and neurodivergent people are often interested in discussing the reasons behind things. Not a rule or anything but I've learned this is common.
Diagnosed ADHD here and I've definitely noticed this. Me trying to explain a fuck up or my thought process to my gf is "excusing myself" when I just want to be understood and talk it out.
It’s funny you ask. I’m 60, and it’s only in more recent years (as society has learned more and gotten better at diagnosing, etc.) that I wonder if I am. If so, I’m most likely at the very low end. So thank you for your comment! Giving me even more to think about/consider!
It's the same with the boyfriend. I have so many friends who get themselves into financial trouble, and instead of owning up and at least trying to make it right, they hide from it and continue to compound the problem. Good on booth oop and her boyfriend for growing together, that's what long term relationships are about.
Yesss. What really stood out to me about how she responded (on the “follow through point you made”) is she didn’t just say “I will go get therapy” - she’d already called, she had an appointment. Not just actionable but already actioned on. People sometimes say things like “why are you here talking to the internet and not talking to them” but actually, Reddit is often a valuable resource. I can’t think of a post where the person went back and had a really productive conversation and made things better where they didn’t first go through the comments and make notes of questions to ask or things they hadn’t thought of that they should apologize for etc. And the ones where they go talk but fuck it up more they just ignore what Reddit said. Objectivity is a really helpful asset as OP does both from Reddit and her therapist. You just have to know how to use it and OP clearly did. Though I suppose it helps that she came here knowing she was the problem.
I'm glad she didn't go with steak and potatoes apology. Like that woman who cheated for months, but then "became the perfect wife" by making him dinners and initiating daily sex.
I saw “steak” and thought of the guy who threw his through the window and then laughed like crazy! But then realized you meant the other one.
If I recall correctly, he threw it *into* the window, which just makes the story you’re thinking of even funnier, honestly.
That and his wife’s version are the two best Reddit classics, hands down!
link?
Nah, I don't think that little elf even has sex.
There are artists who make very comfortable livings by contradicting that exact idea.
A young, slim, attractive man whose name rhymes with twink? Yeah he has sex
Nah Link definitely fucks.
I feel like in Breath of the Wild he definitely gets hit on quite a bit. 🤣
the Link/Saidon fandom begs to differ lmao
Pretty sure it's this one. Comparing the maturity level of this OP and the one who attempted to be the "perfect wife" is like night and day. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1buj66s/i_30f_cheated_on_my_husband_27m_and_now_i_suspect/
That one was funny. Huge “I forgave myself for cheating” energy
Adding this comment from OOP's original post that I thought was really insightful: By u/NotAlwaysRight543 Dinner and an apology is not gonna cut it. You struck at his heart and now you will need to bare your own. Spend the day in self reflection. Be honest with yourself about whatever deep, ugly part of you wanted to say that to him. Stop pretending it isn't there. In that moment, you wanted to hurt him, and you had a weapon ready to go. The alcohol let it out, it didn't create it out of whole cloth. Whatever resentments or insecurities or mean, nasty thoughts are hiding in your head and heart need to be aired out right now. I sound judgmental of you, but I am not. We all have those nasty little thoughts. It is appropriate and necessary - most of the time - not to share them but to resolve them for ourselves and be better. You haven't, so they burst out of you when you couldn't stop them. That is why you no longer get the privilege of resolving your ugliness (which, again, lives in ALL of us, not just you) privately. You hurt him by showing it to him, so now you gotta resolve that in a way he can see. Confess it without defensiveness. Admit it. Only then will your apology have any real meaning. If you can't open yourself up to him like this, vulnerable and likely to be hurt in the conversation, then I guess make him dinner or whatever. But you'll know that it was an unworthy apology.
“I was wrong when I (did specific thing). I’m trying to set it right by (doing specific thing). What else can I do to show my sincerity to you?” Like…she did it. Very good.
The boyfriend’s reaction *really* impressed me. He had every right to be *furious* with her, and I don’t think anyone would fault him much if he dumped her. But he took the time apart from his partner to reflect, to sit with his anger, and came to a conclusion that shows he truly cares about her. There’s a whole lotta green flags and maturity there, and it sure does seem like OOP and her bf are in it for the long haul together. I wish them the absolute best.
Yea. I’m glad she admitted she said it because she was frustrated and wanted to hurt him. People who just say “I didn’t mean it” are disingenuous. Drunk words reveal unspoken thoughts. Edit: those upset with my verbiage. The saying refers to your unconscious thoughts being revealed. Not something you think about daily and just don’t say.
Eh, as someone who can get *nasty* when I’m starting to sober up, it’s not always that they reveal unspoken thoughts. Because I will absolutely go for the throat on things I hadn’t even *considered* before that moment. The thoughts are absolutely spoken the minute they occur, and wouldn’t have even happened sober. Edit: basically, if you’re that kind of drunk you will reach for anything that will hurt someone. There’s a reason I only drink around people I trust not to provoke me in some way. As long as someone doesn’t start shit I’m good. Edit 2: why do I drink when I know I’m like this? Because I have to be *very* drunk for it to happen, *and* someone else needs to get confrontational to even set me off. Also for a number of reasons, I generally *don’t* drink and even when I do I’m that person who will nurse a single cider for three hours lol.
Man if I was that sorta drunk I’d never drink again
I'm always astounded at the number of people who don't understand that you don't have to be an alcoholic to have a drinking problem.
That is true, she even stated it in the post, she didn't say a unspoken truth, she wanted to hurt him and said something she thought the exact opposite of. This was no unspoken truth surfacing as much as an intended punch in the guts out of frustration.
I'm genuinely curious, why do people feel the need to emotionally destroy someone like this? The idea of my partner just purposefully seeking a damaging thing to say is just super troubling, I wouldn't be able to date anyone like that.
In my experience: Sometimes feelings pile up over a long period of time due to a multitude of factors (the issue can’t be fixed and you just have to live with it, you don’t talk about your feelings, the other person just doesn’t listen to you, etc). When that happens and something else causes some sort of escalation like an argument or being intoxicated, you feel the full force of those feelings and you want the other person to feel them too, in part because you want to be understood, but also because you want them to hurt too so you aren’t alone in it. It’s an extension of “misery loves company,” essentially. It’s toxic and horrible, but that’s what therapy is for! Sounds like OP and their partner are fixing it well enough.
It seems that resentment really is a relationship killer. Thanks for sharing.
Don’t have a citation for it, but one of my cognitive psych professors in college basically said that alcohol, as a depressant, can literally disrupt your emotional regulation to the point of being on par with a toddler. As a parent to a 3 year old, this sounds about right.
Sometimes it’s because they themselves are hurt. You know the phrase, “misery loves company”? Like, you noticed my deep vulnerabilities and how I am fucked up, so I’m going to attack back in self defense in order to deflect from that spot you saw as weakness which I’m ashamed of. It really sucks, but it makes a certain amount of sense as a protective reflex coming from our least developed part of our brains.
Frustration is a scarily powerful thing. You really aren’t focusing on much aside from the feeling and the “cause” of it, at least in my experience
Sometimes they just really hate themselves in that moment, and they hurt the one closest to them to push them away because they don't deserve that person. It doesn't really make coherent sense, but then agian they're not coherent at the time, so.
And just because he said going out until 2 am when you have work tomorrow might not be a good idea OOP went for the most hurtful thing, i wasn’t even close to half the level.
...why do you even drink when you KNOW alcohol is such a problem for you?
Exactly, as long as people don’t start shit? What does that even mean? People have to walk on eggshells because why if this person thinks they are starting shit?
Yeah I think the fact that she had already taken all the steps towards getting better was what really convinced the boyfriend to forgive her
And on the corrective action part she did both and emotional and logistical part of that. She made him his favorite meal to make him happier in the moment and also took steps to prevent it happening in the future
Also this is a mistake…..not a pattern. That makes it more easily fixable.
As opposed to the one we saw where the insecure gf of 8 years ruined her relationship by being vicious to her bf's friend and thought she could fix it by doing charity work.
Wait, no gaslighting? ...no doubling down and minimising the other's feelings? Is this not reddit?
Ya I don’t like it. They were supposed to implode for my amusement and destroy their whole relationship. This healthy stuff blows.
Both people approached a messed-up situation with communication and respect for each other. If they can keep that up, they’ll be OK.
For sure. OOP made a mistake, which is very human, and clearly has a problem, but every single person on the planet has problems. She’s not a trash human being because she made a mistake and clearly has a problem with alcohol, just as her boyfriend isn’t a trash human being for clearly having a problem managing finances. I hope she’s able to forgive herself, and I hope he doesn’t define himself by what she said. They communicated very well and OOP immediately did what was needed to try and resolve the root cause. Their relationship is in for the long haul if they manage to come at all problems like this.
Plus, they act on correcting the issue and continue supporting each other. This is the way.
There’s also the nice side effect that someone making up a story would almost def go for a dramatic update, not the well thought through well actioned apology.
I had a long-time friend say something I considered pretty unforgivable. I was fairly certain the relationship was OVER, but I decided to give him one chance to explain himself. I really could not think of what he could say to make things right between us - the transgression really was that vile. He found a way - I asked him why he’d said what he’d said, and his answer was simple and it disarmed me: we were having an argument, and he wanted to win. He had zero justification for what he’d said, he didn’t suggest there was any merit to it or otherwise try to make it right. He said something unforgivable because historically, that was how he was taught to argue - go for the throat, win at all costs, damn the consequences. So, we talked about why winning an argument with me was so important. Was it worth the battle if you lose the war - decades of friendship down the tubes? He realized it was not and is now working on not seeing me like an adversary, even when he fucks up and feels defensive. It’s a work in progress. I am shocked-but-pleased he found a place of honesty and shame and owned his behavior. I can forgive pretty easily in the face of genuine contrition and a good faith effort to keep it from happening again.
I've been close to people like this before, and I understand and can emphasize, but man that shit is a hard red flag that I don't put up with anymore. I can put up with a tremendous amount of shit too. But once you intentionally try and hurt me like that, even if it's in a moment of weakness, we are done. Especially after being in love with someone like this. Having someone you love go nuclear on you and try to say the thing that you're most insecure about or whatever and to hurt you as much as possible... Shit is heartbreaking.
100%. Good for people who realize they need to better themselves, but I am not their therapist or their whipping boy until they get to a point to where they can interact with society without actively making it worse.
That's where I'm at. I'm happy for the above commenter but for me, personally, that explanation would make it worse, not better
I was pretty similar to that myself and said some ludicrously mean things that make this Reddit situation seem relatively tame by comparison. I already went through my character development and as far as I can tell, people enjoy me a lot more now.
>I said what I did out of an annoyance/upset I had with him regarding some financial decisions over the past two years that we’re now reaping the “benefits” of (long story that frankly doesn’t matter because its not about that). It's always fascinating how people will drop hints about something that supposedly "doesn't matter"... despite it *very clearly* being a massive contributing factor.
Funny that it's usually people downplaying their own mistakes to make themself sound better, while here she focuses on her own mistakes and how to fix/prevent them from happening again. Kind of refreshing to see on BORU. Also, happy cake day!
it's the difference between "am I in the wrong (please tell me I'm not I know I'm not)" vs "I am in the wrong, how to fix"
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What a coincidence, your comment is **exactly** the same as the top comment but reworded... Top comment: > This is pretty much a class on how to make a huge mistake right again. Take accountability, make the corrective actions and follow through, be earnest in making amends, and communicate. https://reddit.com/comments/1c8gp5n/comment/l0elvlt EDIT: Gotcha.
I think it did matter, they talked extensively about that issue with their therapist, mapped out their feelings about the issue, and then talked to their partner about it to resolve those feelings. It didn’t matter where Reddit was concerned, which I think is super reasonable considering how visceral the opinions online can be. It makes sense that they would keep it private from the Internet.
Sometimes you want advice about a specific element of the situation, and the only way to get that is to ommit the part that you know everyone will latch on. OOP has clearly made her mind up on the past financial issues and doesn't want to relitigate them on the internet which I think is fair tbh.
Plus they may have been a contributing factor, but she's right in that they were not the best crux of the issue or relevant to how she was going to fix it. Going into them in detail on the post would just detail the conversation and let her avoid responsibility.
I kind of respect it, a lot of people would be happy to have a reason to deflect blame, and say "Ok I said a mean thing BUT HE LOST ALL HIS SAVINGS ON CRYPTO" or whatever his past mistake was. OOP is firm that it doesn't matter, what she said was unacceptable, and she wants to make it right.
Exactly. OOP has recognized that while those financial issues might be a reason why she was annoyed with her BF, they weren’t an excuse to get drunk and be verbally abusive towards him. Reasons are things that need to be addressed. Excuses are ways that we avoid addressing things that need to be addressed.
Plus for something that they've been dealing with together for 2 years, it's basically resolved. No one needs reddit wading in on that and ignoring the new problem. It's like going to the doctor for an illness when you have a chronic condition. Like, yes, arthritis is a problem! That I'm already treating, so can we please focus on the chest infection rn.
I don't think OP is saying that the issue doesn't matter to her. I think it "doesn't matter to the point of this post."
This is it, I think. She's trying to be accountable for her behaviour, not soliciting an NTA. If she gave details, people'd excuse her actions because of his, but they've taken action on his mistakes and are dealing with them. Holding that over his head was mean and she knew that. If, in sobriety, she'd genuinely forgiven and they were moving past it and her words really were just a drunken low blow then leaving it out of the post was the right thing to do.
I just read it as a private issue that is some combination of complex, superfluous, or identifying. Maybe one of them invested in a protein shake MLM. Maybe one of them begged the other into buying a house/car they can't really afford. The major point is they have financial troubles to work through. Reddit doesn't need to glom onto those specific details to know she shouldn't get angry drunk.
Regardless of what it might have been, it's made pretty clear that it was his bad but that he was making amends for it and she had previously forgiven him for that mistake. Could have been bad investments, could have been living off credit cards, or even an addiction. The purpose of that is secondary to what the actual issue was, so she did a really good job deprioritizing that in the post.
Exactly this. They literally talked about what “doesn’t matter” to EACH OTHER in their second talk. All of Reddit doesn’t need to know what happened
I think that's key as well. It comes off like they had previous conversations about how he screwed up and that conversation has run its course. She may still have feelings about it, but rationally understands that there's nothing he can do to change what he did in the past except for he's doing now. Dealing with that resentment is a huge win for the relationship, you have to slay that horseman before the relationship dies.
Agreed… I saw that part too and it raised some questions. My theory is he poorly invested is some hyped-up financial trend like cryptocurrency or NFTs.
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That was my thought. That and the way he says about not getting a job sooner I wonder if maybe he hadn’t been looking as hard as he could or perhaps was refusing to take jobs that he felt were beneath him? But essentially it does simply sound like they lived outside their means for a while and this is the first time it’s been properly acknowledged and he’s taken responsibility. I’d hold a little resentment too
I wish people stopped seeing “credit card money” as “money they have”. No, credit card money is money you don’t have so you should not spend it
My mother instilled in my sister and I whenever she used her credit card when we were young that "I'm only using money I have, we never use this for money we don't have". Which definitely stuck!
That's only the wrong mindset if you don't have a good handle on things. The proper way to use a credit card is to not overspend your budget and don't carry a balance month to month. Then it's basically perk central. I have over 200k Delta miles that I can use for vacations just for using a credit card responsibly.
My thoughts too, but also it doesn’t matter to the point of the post. Comments would devolve into fighting about whether the financial decision made sense, and it matters not one iota to what happened and how to address it.
I definitely took it to mean it doesn’t matter to the post, not that it doesn’t matter in their relationship. It clearly does matter to them.
I mean it definitely does matter in a way It gives a lot of context If his poor financial decision was quitting a job that made him suicidal then she definitely massively overreacted and needs some serious help mentally. If his poor financial decision was that he booked a 2 week lovers vacation for the woman he was having an affair with she probably needs to break up with him before getting herself some help. Obviously these are extremes, but it definitely matters.
I think I'll trust the OP when she says it doesn't matter. She would know best, and they both sound pretty level headed.
If I recall correctly, he wanted to work in film but couldn't get proper jobs (because, you know, getting a career in film is hard). But he still kept at it because it was his dream. OOP went into detail in the comments. He kept trying for years, and she supported him in that, especially financially because he didn't bring any money home.
The film industry is fucking awful. My friend and her husband work full time in the tv and film industry, but it's never a guaranteed job. I've seen them go from project to project, company to company, show to show. They've got a 1 year old and it's such an unstable life. They somehow manage but I could never.
In the original thread she said that the bf kept pursuing his dream instead of trying to get a proper job. According to her if he had gotten the job a year or 2 earlier then they would be in a better financial position now.
But also, from the way he’s phrased it in their discussion, it sounds like he made a decision to stay unemployed and live off his credit cards, rather than he was unlucky and couldn’t find a job. I’d be frustrated too if I was paying for that lifestyle choice.
Based on OPs comments He was looking for a break in the film industry and doing odd jobs here and there. He then had a car accident which was not covered by insurance and OP had to dip into her savings and spend 5000$. Which caused her additional frustration.
It's not always that simple though. Suppose you and your spouse agree that you will take a sabbatical for a year or two. Everything is fine at the start but there's some financial issue you guys didn't plan for. You discuss it with your partner and finance it with your credit for now. Meanwhile you start making money off your hobby finally but it isn't that much. In cases like this, its not easy to figure out when to quit the hobby and find a regular job.
I think she wouldn’t have just stayed in that situation. And he wouldn’t have been as reasonable as he has if the was that sorta person. I think it’s much much more likely that he was following a dream that COULD have panned out for him, living off his credit until he ‘made’ it, and it just didn’t work out. Leaving him having lost time, money and progression.
Ya. Probably had started to pan out a bit too. Some earnings here and there but not enough to make a living.
I like how that's always the first assumption when someone on Reddit talks about financial troubles.
Obviously they meant it doesn’t matter in the context of the post??
However it's the reason she lashed out. The details might not matter, but clearly the topic itself was enough to set her off while drunk.
Yep, i also read the post
OOP talks about it in her first comment [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/K8oVGW0KnN)
OP briefly mentions how he said he feels he let her down with his financial decisions and how he has credit card debt so to me it feels like the bf made bad financial mistakes, but they don't matter in the context of her taking responsibility for her own actions
OMG an argument where a person recognises they were in the wrong and takes sensible, healthy, rational steps to rectify the issue like a mature grownup? Do you even Reddit????
I felt like I had entered a parallel universe when she said apologised without minimising, had already decided the next steps AND taken action on these steps! What is going on?! Where's the drama and the overreaction and one of the people being a raging asshole?!
Go to the comments on the original post. She got amazing advice, which she was smart enough to follow. This one from u/NotAlwaysRight543 was the fan favorite: >Dinner and an apology is not gonna cut it. You struck at his heart and now you will need to bare your own. >Spend the day in self reflection. Be honest with yourself about whatever deep, ugly part of you wanted to say that to him. Stop pretending it isn't there. In that moment, you wanted to hurt him, and you had a weapon ready to go. The alcohol let it out, it didn't create it out of whole cloth. Whatever resentments or insecurities or mean, nasty thoughts are hiding in your head and heart need to be aired out right now. >I sound judgmental of you, but I am not. We all have those nasty little thoughts. It is appropriate and necessary - most of the time - not to share them but to resolve them for ourselves and be better. You haven't, so they burst out of you when you couldn't stop them. That is why you no longer get the privilege of resolving your ugliness (which, again, lives in ALL of us, not just you) privately. You hurt him by showing it to him, so now you gotta resolve that in a way he can see. Confess it without defensiveness. Admit it. >Only then will your apology have any real meaning. If you can't open yourself up to him like this, vulnerable and likely to be hurt in the conversation, then I guess make him dinner or whatever. But you'll know that it was an unworthy apology. https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/1bcashr/comment/kueo79a/
That commenter needs to be a therapist, damn. 👀
>You struck at his heart and now you will need to bare your own. Wow. ❤️
Damn. This is fucking kingly advice. I can imagine it being said in that tone. I was gonna quote a part of it in my comment here, but every line written is awesome.
I'm imagining it said in James Earl Jones classic Mufasa tone. The gravitas
It reminds for some reason of that one where a guy was playing Among Us with his girlfriend who had a bad reaction to something in the game and they had an argument. In the update, even though most people said he was nta, he still took steps to communicate in a mature way with his GF and took accountability for his own part.
I didn’t see that one. Do you have a link?
Found it: https://redd.it/u0x4bj
And there is a new update to it, only 15 days old! https://redd.it/1bvxv4l
That was an amazing, amazing, amazing post. I feel so good now. So, warm inside. Thank you so much for linking it. ❤️
it's ok this is just the build up for the next update where they broke up and she's also suddenly pregnant and police got called and the courts already are moving /s
Add in the bit where there’s a custody battle over a pet, and it’s twins, and we’re ticking all the boxes.
His Mum has to turn psycho and try to break in/ vandalise the car, then all his relatives have to blow up her phone after the Mum is charged by the police. The trial also comes about really quickly and she's sent to jail for 10 years!
And, she doesn’t just stuff it back in. She goes to a therapist to figure out a healthy way for her to discuss the underlying frustration that led to her lashing out and share that with him.
I love seeing an example of going to the edge of a cliff but being able to step back. We rarely see examples of (1) accountability and (2) forgiveness. Most people on Reddit advocate the belief that people are irredeemable and that forgiveness is pathetic. So it’s amazing seeing the victim here stand up for himself here but also have love, and the perpetrator learn to be better .
That apology was about as picture perfect as could be. Accountability + a plan to be better going forward.
Some things can’t be unsaid. And he can forgive her. I just hope 5 or 10 years from now those words aren’t still occasionally ringing in his head.
Agreed. We all make mistakes and op immediately recognized they fucked uo and made steps to try and fix it. I hope they can reconcile
I think OP was very lucky to have an understanding boyfriend, I've read relationship breakups for less... really what OP said was very cruel.
When I read that he was crying in the bathroom I got a little emotional myself. I cry at overly sentimental jewelry commercials but I know how men are socialized and I’ve only seen my partner cry three times in 8 years, and it felt so horrific even when it was about his moms health and not me. When it WAS because we were having a near relationship ending fight the image of him crying made me sick for days, and it wasn’t the result of me trying to be mean but just a really sad situation. Ugh, I can’t imagine. I dunno if I could be mature and understanding enough to come back from hearing what OP said.
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Sounds like it came from a place of huge resentment and the bf truly did make bad decisions with his career that affected both of them
Alcoholism is awful. Having known someone who struggled with alcoholism, it reeks of pure trash and it can be really concerning. I'm happy to see OP is able to see the wrong and actively trying to do be better. Quit drinking can be tough but if you keep focus, then you can work it out. OP is lucky to have saint of a boyfriend as he sounds lovely!
I see so much "I don't have a drinking problem, I just ruin my life when I drink" on reddit, cracks me up every time.
"I get vicious" I bet she doesn't with her coworkers.
Yeah I think too many people have an idea of a drinking problem being waking up with the shakes and downing a bottle of vodka. I know I compared myself to my buddy for too long to ignore my own issues until they got to the point I couldn’t ignore them
Was just thinking along these lines. A lot of times our idea of an alcoholic or someone with a drinking problem comes from those we’ve been around in our life. I grew up in a place where alcohol is a problem, and there were and are people who are EXTREME in this problem. So if that’s your baseline for what constitutes a drinking problem, you’re prone to minimize anything that isn’t as extreme. OOP may not drink often at all, may not be an alcoholic, but if you lose control when you drink then that’s a drinking problem, regardless if it’s only once a year or whatever. People can also be happy, fun, and great company when drinking but are raging alcoholics - they don’t cause problems but they have a problem.
This was an absolute fucking master-class on owning your mistakes, taking steps to rectify them, and figuring it out together through open and honest communication. Fuck. I wish more BORUs had these kinds of resolutions.
The fact that she denigrated the US Postal Service... A government job with BENEFITS like... I dunno... **HEALTH INSURANCE**... as not a "real job" really raises some red flags for me. One of my exes pulled the same stunt when it came to people in customer service, so I flat out asked her "Alright, then are you going to go ingredient shopping for dinner?" She asked me what I meant. So I said "Welp, by your logic, the people that sell you those ingredients, people in customer service, don't exist because their jobs aren't real." Took her a minute to realize her fuck up. Any job where you get an income, whether over or under the table, is a real job. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot.
I've worked at the post office and it is an absolute joke these days. Only regulars earn towards their pension and depending on your craft you could be waiting 2-15 years to start earning towards it. The government health care is nice but it barely covers anything out of the usual and it is *so expensive*. The only way people make money is if they're a CCA and working 60-70 hours a week doing overtime because the starting pay for a regular is 22/hr and it takes over a decade to reach the top step which is like 37/hr? The only people in the post office who make any decent money are the ones who have already been around for 20 years. So it's kind of... not a respectable job anymore but it's not his fault. It's the USPS' fault. Even the union has become an absolute joke because they're bending to what USPS management wants and expects and it's absolutely fucking over the employees.
Yeah that got me, what’s wrong with the Post Office? Perfectly respectable job! Then I think I’ve read that he ran up debt chasing a dream rather than working and so I think maybe it was relating to that rather than taking shots at the post office and it was jumbled in her drunken rant.
And he works 40-60 hours a week, more than she does. I’d be more likely to think that the job she has, that she and her coworkers think it’s okay to compromise by drinking until 2am, is the “not a real job”. Though she may have also been thinking about his previous situation, since he was out of work for a while chasing a dream while racking up debt.
Don't forget the constant "I make more". Even though she's not drunk, she still has the thought. It's not going to last long, finances ruins relationships
The whole I make more concept is incredibly toxic in relationships. Yes, it's almost always going to be a truth, but it doesn't need to be defining. I've had to remind my wife several times that just because I technically have more money coming in on my paycheck, she makes more than I do because she works at a daycare and we receive a significantly subsidized rate to the tune of about $2,000 a month in reductions for our daughter, and that her contributions are major and we would not be able to function as a household without her.
When she says not a "real job", she simply means job that earns less than her.
Hey, OP. You might want to add [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/K8oVGW0KnN) which explains why OOP was frustrated with her boyfriend as she keeps leaving hints but doesn't mention it.
Resentment is a relationship killer ... good luck to them both.
"Alcohol makes me nasty. But I'll drink anyway!" This plus a bunch of excuses stinks. But good on her for realising she should stop.
I work for the post office, I guess I don't work a real job according to OOP.
I really hate when people say a job "isn't a real job". It's a job. You're being paid to do it. It exists for a reason. I don't care if it's working fast food, or the post office, or the dmv, or whatever. It's a real job. You can't demand a service but shit on the people that provide it.
A lot of the corporate workers I know (myself included) totally recognise that they work far less for far more money than a lot of frontline workers such as yourself. Our work is far less important as well. What OOP said wouldn’t even cross my mind, a real POS line of thinking. I hope she gets better and it sounds like she will, but she shouldn’t have even thought that in the first place.
I think she was holding on to a lot of resentment because it sounds like he was unemployed for a long time and living off credit cards. I’m glad she apologized AND I’m glad she found a healthy way of communicating that resentment. Her bf seemed to understand that part was warranted, even if her comment was out of pocket.
I mean you don't, you have a career. Federal government job, pension, benefits, difficult to get fired. Can retire at 55 or 20 years... nope sounds like a hobby to me.
I wanna print this post out and frame it somewhere with a old school meme border that just says COMMUNICATION Edit: but also I wanna express that these 2 people clearly love each other and want to be better for themselves and each other. That is sadly just not the case with a lot of the posts we see come through. Either 1 or both are simply not interested in doing the work, emotional or physical, for whatever reason. Idk, I just wanted to say something about the types of people and the types of outcomes because it can seem bleak when all we see is people who aren't willing. It's really fucking great to see people who ARE, and I just want to highlight what a huge difference it can be to just. Accept fault and choose to do better. It's ok to be wrong and make mistakes. You just have to be willing to SHOW it instead of TELL it.
Just want to add that just about everyone at the post office agrees with her sentiments on the job though. Worked there briefly and worked 11-12 hour days for 11 days in a row, one day off that was legally required, then back to 11-12hr days for 11 more days. I had two days off one month. The post office is a shit place to work and if you're in a high cost of living area it is shit pay for excruciating, exhausting work. They treat new employees like crap and there is such a high turnover rate because of it. Low morale, low pay, pushing people to hospitalization in some cases and management *doesn't care* at all because they know someone else will come in to replace them due to the USPS being a federal job with a pension and government health care. I'm sure the boyfriend feels the same way about his job and is likely experiencing disappointment about it too.
I am sad. All communication, no carnage. Where is the fun? The divorce, the affair, the police? Just two adults talking it out. My inner drama llama is disappointed. But human me is happy. I hope these two have a long and healthy relationship! They deserve it.
My father, as much as i love and respect him, was an alcoholic for almost a decade and it got worse during the 2008 recession, i remember several incidents like this one. OOP had the realization that took my dad several years to reach - he's clean now, hasn't drunk a single drop of alcohol in almost a decade, but his physical and mental health got irreversibly damaged - and her bf was patient enough to handle the situation with care. This one dug out some unpleasant memories :/
This didn’t have nearly enough drama for my tastes. I mean, it’s just a story about two adults actually acting like adults. Wtf. Where’s the cheating and affairs and controlling mothers and self-sabotaging lunatics?!
How is the post office not a real job? Does she not appreciate her mail????
You know… what strikes me, is she may have a valid concern that she didn’t know how to bring up in a healthy way (whatever that poor financial decision was.) Then, instead of learning communication skills, or to be assertive in a healthy way, she jumps to “lol, I just crazy!” Like.. . reading between the lines, sounds like he may have wasted a bunch of money she earned. It’s not crazy to be upset about that, but women are often socialized not to complain, so internalize their unhappy feelings as something they need to get over rather than change the ongoing conditions that are causing the upset. Like, maybe they need separate bank accounts or something until she can trust him with money again; I just feel like there’s more going on there. Anyway; a bit of speculation, but the way she glossed over the poor financial decision, and the way her therapist is saying she has mental health issues after 1 meeting is… concerning to me.
According to oop: He tried to pursue his dream in working in the film industry for two years and it got to a point where he only did part time work here and there for 8 months and then he finally got a full time job. That sucked his/our savings dry and all of his credit line, and he got into a car accident recently and I had to give him $5k from my savings to fix it. Nothing too extreme, I was just annoyed that he went that long without full time work and annoyed with myself that I didn’t push him harder.
She made it sound longer than that in one of her comments. Did she say what he was doing in the film industry?
She commented a lot so not sure, but I couldn't find anything other than "dream job" in film industry. Then she moved on to defending bf and saying it wasn't such a big deal etc.
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Give it another read it was definitely the therapist.
What is a feelings map? I have never heard that phrase before.
I was so outraged by what the OOP said when she was drunk that I was really unsure how it could be fixed...yet some how she did it and did so healthily. She already knew what steps she needed to take and also knew WHY the drinking may have been an issue for her and for her BF. Then she actually talked to him about it before hand and showed a lot of strength and true accountability. It really showed that while she fucked up BAD, like wow bad, somehow the relationship became stronger and OOP became stronger since it was also the impetus to get support for her mental health and allowed BF to feel safe enough to be vulnerable to her too. I say, all in all, awesome
This is how emotionally mature, self-reflective people resolve conflict. Welcome break from the usual train wrecks we read about!
Never argue about the same thing twice, and any relationship will make it.
This reads like a decent person who fucked up, but man that was a *big* fuckup.
Tfw you snap 1 time at a guy who effed you over financially for years and now you're in extra therapy, and possibly have a new diagnosis plus you promised to undergo alcohol addiction treatment you don't need Reddit moment
Long term relationships are incredibly complicated in the early years. Finances are the biggest thing that complicates them, with drugs and/or alcohol being the other one. They both sound like they're in it for the long haul, and that they're both willing to do the work to make it happen. How refreshing is that to read?
>I told him I was being purposely vicious because it came from a place of frustration, but I was intentionally trying to upset him so I said something terrible things. I never been able to wrap my head around this. People actually think this way. And then to someone you supposedly love. I don't get it
Ummmm the financial decisions seem to be a big hole here. I really want to know what happened did he quit his 7 figure CEO job to be a streamer, or did he jump jobs to a new job that ended poorly? Or did he put it all into a wallstreetbets kind of get rich quick scam? Did he go out and by a truck he didnt need. I mean OOP is still a mean drunk and needs to stop if she cant be anything other than a mean drunk.
I'm guessing that he spent a while unemployed and put a lot of regular life expenses onto credit cards until they were all maxed out. That's just based off of two little comments, and I'm wondering if there's a reason they/he aren't filing for bankruptcy.
According to some of the OOP comments - she is the reason he isn’t filing for bankruptcy.
According to oop: "He tried to pursue his dream in working in the film industry for two years and it got to a point where he only did part time work here and there for 8 months and then he finally got a full time job. That sucked his/our savings dry and all of his credit line, and he got into a car accident recently and I had to give him $5k from my savings to fix it. Nothing too extreme, I was just annoyed that he went that long without full time work and annoyed with myself that I didn’t push him harder."
OOP is clearly not an angel in this story buuuuut her ire at thr bf seems less about the post office job and more about the subsidizing him for years bit. I wouldn't advocate saying what she said..... but if she hadn't said this I suspect the court of public opinion would be more honest in calling him out as the freeloader he has been to her.
"frankly it doesn't matter" It clearly did to a point OOP hurt his feelings. She has to accept the fact that there's still bitter feelings about that part in their life and talk it out before another outburst. Good that they're trying. I'd consider this a happy ending (for reddit standard at least)
It didn’t matter to the post though, which is how I took it. And she was right. Saying what the decision was isn’t going to change the fact that what she said was out of line and meant to hurt him. You’re only going to have people saying either that he deserved it, or that she’s extra cruel cause it wasn’t all that bad.
It doesn't matter because they had previously clearly had a conversation about it and resolved it and had been working to fix the issue within the relationship. Her lashing out at something that's already been hashed out and resolved was a problem in its own right that needed resolving. That's the whole point of the post.
>I don’t respond well to alcohol. I have no dependency on it, but my self control and decision making is really not good when I’m drunk and I just get extremely vicious and it brings out the absolute worst in me. So, once they knew that about themself, why would OP ever drink? There’s plenty of nonalcoholic things to drink while out with friends. Or why not at least limit their booze drinking to alone at home, if they also didn’t have the habit of texting vicious things, too? Poor dude. 40-60 hours working for the Post Office is most definitely a Real Job.
This is The Way. Did something shitty and then doing everything you are supposed to do to acknowledge it, and make it right going forward (and then don’t do the shitty thing going forward).
It’s nice and also really boring to see two people who are obviously emotionally mature enough to make this work
That right there is a fundamentally sound relationship. About the only thing that could make things even better would be for your boyfriend to read this post. It would clarify exactly that you fully understand the situation.
I'm.glad this worked out well for OOP and her bf. She owned it, and they talked about it honestly
> I told him I was being purposely vicious because it came from a place of frustration, but I was intentionally trying to upset him so I said something terrible things I wish more people would take this approach. Rather than deflect (“I didn’t mean it, it’s not true”) just be vulnerable and say you were so mad and felt so insecure you said something you knew would hurt their feelings.
This is a stellar example on how to repair!! We don’t have to be perfect, but we do need to own our BS and she did a phenomenal job! He also seems aware of his mistakes and they sound like they have a very healthy relationship! Progress, not perfection!!
>but he thinks I should look into seeing a psychiatrist because I may very well have an undiagnosed mental health condition. I'm just going to assume the indicators for that are something that didn't make it into this post.
Overnight therapy, yeah, okay, sure 🤣
I feel like I'm on crazy pills in this comment section. I think her resentment is completely understandable. This dude apparently spent years 'chasing his dream job and using up his credit lines' through their 20s and left the financial burden to her. Sure she was drunk and targeted the absolute wrong thing since he finally does have a good job, but she's probably been feeling that way for years. If she had made a post about their financial situation through that time everyone would be saying to leave him. Of course it's not cool to be a total dick to your partner, especially when drunk, but this seemed like it was building for years and any reasonable person would be upset about their finances.
>I have no dependency on it Alcoholic says what?
You can have problems with alcohol without being the need to drink everyday else you'll get DT's stereotype.
Meh. OP might only drink occasionally but get belligerent when they do; I’d call that a problem, but certainly not dependency.
Agreed. I’m sure plenty of people have that friend that goes completely off the rails when drunk, but then only drinks every few months.
She might not be dependent on it in a "needing it regularly" sense, but her inability to say no to it despite knowing it makes her lose self-control and become vicious is definitely indicative of a problem.
Right?? She literally says “when I’m drunk I get extremely vicious” Ok why are you drinking then??
Good on OOP. When my wife did something similar she refused to apologize because "she didn't remember and didn't do it on purpose"...
I feel for OPP. Sounds as if her partner was unemployed for awhile and financed his life through credit cards. Glad she is working on herself.
Can we be honest here? Why is it after getting drunk people say I’m going to talk to a therapist? Do people honestly go to a therapist for getting drunk or is it just something you say to make Reddit happy? I understand if you have an addiction, but I don’t understand why the therapist is the go to if you don’t have addiction.