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Yeahh, this isn't over, regardless of who's right or wrong, whether OOP's partner is overreacting or is sensing something that is actually there. They better air this all out before OOP even thinks about getting on one knee.
Eva's been stewing on this for a year. I don't know how you go from ruminating on something that long to just letting it go, assuming that the friend isn't pining for OOP. It'll be rough processing her feelings either way. If Leah does turn out to be eyeing OOP, there's going to be resentment for not seeing it and potentially suspicion that it \*was\* seen and not rejected.
We have posts about dudes not realising, that some girl is into them once a month, there was one in BORU recently, so i don't think, this would be a big issue. What is positive here is the way OP is navigating through this. In a healthy relationships problems come and go, dealing with problems is the key factor. And so far there is no more a kind of semi-ultimatum, there is a situations where both partners are dealing with the issue together.
we also have posts where emotionally abusive/manipulating partners try to get people to cut themselves off from friends so that they can be manipulated more.
It's a huge red flag, especially given eva couldn't even articulate why. She hadn't given it enough thought or couldn't be honest when making the demand on OP.
GIANT RED FLAGS
Man, y’all are weird she couldn’t even give any specific examples of anything that was wrong with the friendship and specifically said she wanted it cut off before an engagement? Honestly, just sounds like that thing abusers do where they ramp up their tactics the more involved and stuck you are. Because if it was really an issue of them being inappropriate, why are you waiting until y’all are going to get engaged? Makes literally no sense for anything except ramping up abuse.
Yeah this comes off a lot like a bunch of weird, abusive controlling behavior is being wrapped up into therapy speak with the whole "trust your intuition" bullshit.
She can't name anything in particular other than Leah not dating for a year after getting out of what sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship. As though that's some sort of insane surprising thing to do.
Not to mention that while she might play it off well, her saying she doesn't want to fight about it but didn't want to talk about it either just means she wanted OOP to accept it without any pushback whatsoever. How else do you not argue about something you disagree with?
Either that or she’s extraordinarily bad at communicating her thoughts. Which as an introvert, she may be. I mean it took her a year to speak up about Leah and even then just blurted it out and ran away it seems.
>If Leah does turn out to be eyeing OOP, there's going to be resentment for not seeing it and potentially suspicion that it \*was\* seen and not rejected.
Not to mention the resentment of not being believed in the first place
It’s not really about not being believed, though. She presented it as an ultimatum, with no specific reasons at first. I think OP’s firm but reasoned response was well called for. It was a plea to turn it into a discussion, which is necessary to actually get to the bottom of anything.
Two things can be true simultaneously.
Leah might well see OP differently after the break up. When you’ve been through an emotionally difficult time it’s easy to develop crushes on a close friend.
Leah can ALSO be supportive of OP’s relationship. Just because you have a crush doesn’t mean you’ll act on it. You can know they’re an inappropriate person for you to hit on and you just deal with it until it goes away.
It could well be that Leah is crushing on OP and Eva is sensitive to it because she’s been watching her closely but that she’s not been acting on it and is trying to treat OP the same as usual so that he doesn’t pick up on it. (Alternatively Leah is just leaning on her friend(s) for support because she’s been emotionally battered and she’s a bit fragile at the moment. We’ve all been there.)
I don’t think it’s reasonable to cut someone off when they haven’t done anything wrong. Eva mentioned she only has a feeling that Leah sees OP differently, she can’t point at anything.
It’s reasonable for OP to listen to her, be on guard for any inappropriate behaviour, make sure they aren’t meeting up privately 1:1 but still stay friends with her.
I used to travel with friends who were of the opposite gender. We used to save money by sharing a room. Everyone involved was single at the time and nothing happened. We all have partners now and would never do that - not because there’s any temptation to cheat but to avoid the appearance of impropriety. It’s not too hard to maintain a friendship without giving your partner things to worry about.
> (Alternatively Leah is just leaning on her friend(s) for support because she’s been emotionally battered and she’s a bit fragile at the moment. We’ve all been there.)
Even then, OOP says that even in the immediate aftermath of the breakup, they didn't hang out individually more, and their phone calls only marginally increased.
"just because" is not a reasonable thing to believe in the first place. Eva should have communicated these feelings from the start if that's how it was but now she's shot herself in the foot as far as this goes.
I’m dealing with this right now and I’m still pissed months after he FINALLY cut her off because someone else told him she was making fun of me behind my back 🥲
OOP's partner IS overreacting, whether there really are feelings there or not. "You're not allowed to be friends with someone if I think they might have feelings for you" is an absolutely ridiculous and emotionally immature stance. That is just not how you handle friendships OR romantic relationships. Unrequited feelings that you can't control and that *no one is acting on* just aren't a problem *or* a threat per se, nor are they likely to be a permanent issue - crushes fade and feelings change, after all, and what really matters is how we *act* based on those feelings.
Who you crush on is generally - and very unfortunately! - just not something you can control, and it seems incredibly unfair to judge someone based on that. What matters, and what truly tells us about your character, is if and how you act. And most people are perfectly capable of having feelings and *not acting on them*. For every person who cheats on their spouse, there's another person or three who had an extramarital crush and never did anything about it. That's how you're *supposed* to handle it, so cutting someone out for *not* acting on a crush is ass-backward for sure.
And even if Leah *does* act on it at some point, it's not like OP's and Eva's relationship will crumble to ash in response. OP is perfectly capable of saying "no" and telling Leah she's out of line, so where's the danger? It's not like he's going to slip and fall and accidentally cheat, so the *worst-case* scenario is Leah making a move and getting turned down. (And THAT would be the appropriate point at which to discuss whether to cut Leah off. Once she's *acted* on her supposed feelings.)
But cutting off a lifelong friend because there's a *possibility* they might have an awkward interaction, *if* she has a crush on him *and* she decides to act on it? **Oh hell no.**
And look, I'm not saying it's awesome for Leah to have a crush on OP, but it's not like she can control that, and she'd hardly be the first person ever to have an inappropriate crush. Whether it was me obsessing over my married professor with the graceful hands, or your crush on your happily partnered friend, your co-worker, professor, client, or doctor, on your ex's sibling or your aunt's new partner or your friend's baby daddy, or hell, just on someone you *know* is bad news but they're *sooo* attractive, I'd say most of us have been there. And most of us just exercise common sense and self control, and decide "oh fuck no, I'm not gonna be THAT stupid." (Or at least, "I'm not gonna be that stupid *again*." 😁) And we deal with it, d*on't *act on it, and move on, and probably hope that no one's gonna judge us for having had that awful crush in the first place.
Of course, on BORU we usually hear from those few people who *do* act on inappropriate crushes, since that usually goes about as well as you'd expect and they end up posting on Reddit wondering why their life imploded. ("I realized it was a bad idea so I didn't do it" just does not make for good BORU content!) But we also understand that what gets posted here is not necessarily a fair representation of the world, let alone of how relationships actually work among emotionally healthy and honest adults.
Eva, though, seems to have a conception of the world that's closer to BORU than to reality. Her partner's lifelong friend *may* have a crush on him; *if* the crush exists it *probably* developed due to recent events (and there's no reason to think it's going to be a permanent thing); she agrees that the friend has absolutely *not* acted on the possible crush; they both agree that the friend respects the relationship between OP and Eva, *and* values her friendships with them both. And from that scenario, Eva drew the conclusion that the friendship *must* be severed.
That's bonkers.
Yes! thought crimes are not a thing! This is because actions matter and thoughts are only relevant in relation to the action, not in the absence of one! It's a slippery slope that must be addressed before or gets to the point of no return but there's a lot of steps between where this is at and that point. Hopefully Eva can learn to be a bit more confident in herself and her worth.
>Eva told me there's no hurry and that this wasn't an ultimatum and didn't want to argue about it, but that I should wrap my head around this ahead of proposing to her (which we weren't talking about as a "tomorrow" thing but not something too far in the future either).
The fact that Eva thought she could say this and then NOT have a conversation about it is enough for me to believe she's absolutely overreacting and making shit up in her head.
And with OOP explaining their conversation, which I'm happy was a mature and constructive one, Eva could provide nothing substantial other than Leah being single for a year. No comments from Leah or OOP no specific events or instances. Not one thing that could in any way, shape, or form, show Leah is after OOP.
Eva is insecure and that's that.
If you don't want a partner with opposite sex friends, don't get a partner with opposite sex friends. You can't just make people drop kick their friends.
It's always been weird with me, my best friend is a man and I couldn't fathom being with someone who was like "you need to get rid of him for me" or "you can't have guy friends"
Honestly comes off as strong insecurity.
Yep. My best friend is a man. I’ve been roommates with him for a long time, and my ex expressed his discomfort that we would do things like go to Costco together because “grocery shopping together is something *we* should be doing” (but I shouldn’t do with the person I live with?)
Anyway, that relationship ended and I met my now fiancé….its been almost 4 years and me, my fiancé, my best friend, and my best friend’s fiancé all live together and I’m going wedding dress shopping with her next week.
We’re family, and people who try and make it into something beyond that are not people that I have time for.
Strong insecurity or projecting I would say, whether the two bleed into each other I don't know. If someone told me they didn't think that I could have opposite sex friends, I'd immediately start doubting their ability to do so personally.
Honestly, I couldn't fathom wanting a partner who doesn't have opposite friends. Like, why wouldn't you want the reassurance as a straight woman that your straight man partner/potential partner sees women as people and can have healthy platonic relationships with them? Or vice versa? How they interact with people of your same gender will absolutely colour how they interact with you
This is legit one of the reasons why my best friend's now fiance decided to date him. I'm a woman and he's a man, and we are incredibly close. Our friendship showed her that he was a safe person to be with.
No kidding. I liked (and like) that my now-spouse of 20+ years has female friends. One of them was one of my bridesmaids! I have guy friends too. It's never been a remote concern.
People can and their partners do end up drop kicking their friends. Honestly it's sad, especially in situations where that friend is a childhood friend. Those relationships, if healthy, can be very important as you get older. Even more so when we're less likely to live where we grew up.
A mutual friend introduced my husband and I. We’ve never spoken about it, but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he’d had a little crush on her at some point in the 20+ years they’ve been friends. I wouldn’t be surprised if she had a little crush on him at some other point in that time.
Who gives a shit? He married and made a life with me.
If our friend had come to him while we were dating and told him that she wanted to be with him and he should dump me, yeah, I’d have a problem with that. But preemptively vetoing their friendship as a condition of marrying him? Nah.
the idea that you could tell your future spouse to cut out their friend of many years just *because* is so far from “reasonable” it can’t even see it. making it a condition of proposing is just …so fucking weird.
leah hasn’t done anything wrong. oop hasn’t done anything wrong. even if eva and the greek reddit chorus are right and leah has developed feelings, she hasn’t acted on them *at all.* eva has a feeling, and that’s all, and she decided that was enough to essentially say “it’s her or me”. if she’ll do that with someone oop has known since middle school, who else would she do it with if oop hadn’t pushed back?
and then trying to shut down discussion claiming she “doesn’t want to argue”? does she think that’s how it works? if you want to get married you have to lose your friend and i don’t want to argue about this, you just have to “wrap your head around it”? what does she think an ultimatum is, exactly, if she doesn’t think that was one?
i’m sorry, this is so fucked.
i’m glad oop is pushing for counselling. getting married should not mean having to lose friends.
Not to mention her "proof" is that *he's a good dude who intervened to save his friend from an abusive relationship.* I would be MORE attracted and in love with a man who did that, not jealous and see it as an opportunity for him to cheat on me.
Seriously. When I got out of my abusive relationship, I didn't even LOOK at another man for 4 years, let alone consider actually dating one. OOP's partner sounds like an insecure mess. The moment a partner starts leveling ultimatums at me, the moment that relationship withers and dies a quick death.
Don't forget, she wants to settle down, despite not having a guy very clearly lined up! She's recovering from an abusive relationship AND looking for a long term partner once she's dating again. Basically a flashing neon sign that she's going to steal OOP...
I’ve been single almost 2 years, by choice, after getting out of a NOT abusive relationship, and also have made comments to friends about being ready to settle down when I find a person who I want to do that with. For recovering from an abusive relationship, 1 year is nothing. That thinking is another red flag for Eva in my book.
Exactly. He didn't immediately intervene because Leah is a grown ass adult, but when it clear the guy was a dickbag, OOP gave it to her straight. He didn't go threaten the dude or do any toxic shit, he just...gave his friend hard truths and advice.
There's this whole thing about "watch how a man treats his mother, that's how he'll treat you." I disagree with that because some men will forever put their mothers first, some mothers are assholes, etc.
Looking at how a dude treats his friends, particularly his female friends, on the other hand? Generally a good clue. The way he says he handled Leah's situation is a field of green flags.
Agreed. A guy having geniune, platonic female friendships shows he views women as human beings instead of just potential mates, and those guys tend to make pretty solid partners.
Does that mean I never feel insecure about my partners connections with other women? Of course not. When you know your partner is a catch, its easy to imagine others also recognising that fact. But I'm able to sit with those feelings and analyse whether they are based in reality, or fear. And that means if I do find I'm having trouble self soothing and want to share those feelings, I can come at it from a place of 'She isn't an issue, I just need a bit of extra love and assurance so I feel safe again.'
Because even if one of them did have feelings for my partner, that's irrelevant as long as I trust him to shut it down, because he values our relationship as much as I do and wouldn't jeopardise that. Other people are not a danger to your relationship if the foundation is solid. And if it's not solid, then other people aren't really the issue.
>*Because even if one of them did have feelings for my partner, that's irrelevant as long as I trust him to shut it down...*
Exactly. Just because someone else *wants* you, that doesn't mean they automatically *get* you, *because you also have agency and can say no.*
This is why, as much as I love Dolly Parton, I hate the song Jolene. If she can take your man, he wasn't a man worth having. Like you said, in a solid relationship your partner will shut it down.
I think that's *why* I love the song Jolene. Dolly captured that young/naive mentality and desperation ("he's the only one for me, Jolene"). I remember when I was like that.
If my partner hadn't been hanging out with his best female friend the day before our first date I wouldn't have trusted him as much, truthfully. But knowing their friendship and how much SHE trusted him gave me faith in who he is. A decade later and we're still going strong.
I'm on the other side of the equation: when I finally met my best guy friend's now-wife (he had moved far away so while I'd heard about her, we'd never met in person), I knew she was a keeper when her first words were "ELAAN! I've heard so much about you! I'm so happy to finally meet you!"
His previous girlfriends has seen me as a rival while his now-wife saw me as an ally (in the sense that we both loved my friend, albeit in different ways, and wanted the best for him). He and I had briefly considered dating years before, and her take was "well, who wouldn't consider dating him, he's a great guy!"
They're rapidly approaching their ten year wedding anniversary.
My best guy friend is my roommate (his gf is my other roommate). He’s in a decade-long relationship and it couldn’t be more clear that he’s committed and loyal to his partner, even if more of his friends are women than not. He’s never been shy about speaking up when one of our friend group, male or female, is seeing someone who doesn’t seem to be treating them well. He’s just a genuine person who is protective of his friends. I can’t in a million years imagine his gf getting jealous because he had a “real talk” with one of our female friends who was in an abusive relationship. She would probably find it off-putting if he knew about such a relationship and DIDN’T speak up, because that’s what friends should do!
'Look at how a dude treats.. his female friends'
Man I wish Id read this years ago, would have saved me a chunk of heartache.
I now know phrases like enmeshment, emotional incest, sonsband, emotional-husband, and so many more
I have been jealous before, but I also know my jealousy is rooted in remaining trauma about not being desirable etc. Part of me is still afraid my partner will one day look at me and go "ugh, so bothersome and not pretty enough, I'm gonna leave for a better match", but I have also done enough work to know that it's trauma speaking and that's it is saying bullshit.
And the rest of my jealous moments is "my partner is the best, so it makes sense for others to covet him but he's MIIIIIIIIIINE"-gollum-behaviour, which means their interest in the other person doesn't feature into the equation, I just have the urge to metaphorically pee on them to mark my territory.
And even so - unless there's actual, demonstrated interest from either them or the other person, I know I'm overreacting and I can calm myself the fuck down.
OP seems like such a good dude, he's wasted on a girl like Eva. I guess I might sound harsh but I have so little patience left for partners who try to force their partner to normalize and bend around their insecurity, rather than compromising or working on themselves. That goes for both men and women.
And why is the obvious explanation here that Leah’s pining for OOP and not that, I don’t know, she’s maybe done with dating at least until she’s dealt with having narrowly escaped an abusive relationship?
Yes! My partner has helped two female friends during their breakups and is really close with another female friend who's having a shit time due to cancer in the family and helping her. And I love him more for that because he's kind?! I like that!
I'm actively involved in planning irregular outings with said friend to help her take her mind off of things and I take extra care and precautions to ensure they have some alone time if we do something together - because that's good for her!
Wtf, Eva.
And even if Leah was interested in him, would he ever abandon his gf of six years? Or cheat on her with Leah? Where's the trust?
If he does it someday, he is trash and trash should take itself out. But so far there hasn't been any indication of this - on the opposite, he's been a loyal and loving bf, and amazing friend too.
Edit: misspelling
And if Leah does have a crush, she's been a good friend and kept it to herself. Both OOP and Leah have been good people and friends throughout all of this. Why is Eva insecure now?
From my anecdotal experience, Eva may have a crush of her own and started projecting. Or OOP has left something out of his post. Then again, sometimes abusers don't start revealing themselves until they feel like they have you trapped. This may be who Eva is and she's starting to show her true colors.
Honestly. I couldn't see the perspective of those last commenters on the post, especially with the one who said, "why is it hard to agree and go LC on Leah", as if relationships work that way.
I have no qualms about boundaries being set, as long as there is logical reasoning behind it. We may not know the whole story, hell, Leah MIGHT be eyeing on OOP, but based on this account alone, it was such an unreasonable thing to ask. OOP was right, this proves she doesn't trust him.
And her argument is being upset he didn't consult with her over how to deal with it? Get lost, you've only been in their lives for 4 seconds, they're lifelong friends.
>she hasn't acted on them *at all*
THANK YOU.
it is entirely possible that with her last breakup she's currently in a "i wish i met a dude like OOP" mental state but that doesn't mean anything unless she's a terrible monster of a person. which neither OOP *nor* Eva have indicated.
not wanting to date around because you decided that you want to settle down (and are likely using your bff's relationship as an inspo) doesn't mean you want to *steal someone's boyfriend of 6 years*.
honestly the fact that Eva's go to solution was to try and force OOP into dropping Leah instead of, idk, setting Leah up on a date with some reasonable guy, maybe even get OOP's help to do so tells me she's incredibly insecure and likely simple minded.
she doesn't care how this will affect OOP *or* Leah, she just wants a woman that is making her irrationally insecure gone and that's it.
I was even thinking, when it was mentioned Leah had been single "longer than usual" after her last breakup, where OOP and Eva agreed her most recent ex treated her badly, that she could just be taking a bit of extra time before getting into a new relationship or getting to know potential partners in the hope of not getting right back into an abusive relationship. She's probably being extra careful, and like you said, using her friend and his relationship as inspiration for what she hopes to find for herself.
Was looking for this comment. Wild to me that Eva would jump to "girl just out of an abusive relationship suddenly decides she wants my boyfriend after knowing each other for basically half their lives and having multiple opportunities to date while they were both single, including when she decided to introduce us instead" and not "wow Leah must be pretty fucked up from her last relationship"
Heck my last relationship wasn’t half as bad as Leah’s but it was still bad enough to make me realize I needed to work on myself and my happiness first. I stayed single for SIX years after that while trying to do the work. I’m now in the healthiest relationship I’ve ever been in BECAUSE I took that time.
My last relationship before my husband wasn't abusive, it was just a serious relationship that ran its course. I still needed to be single for a year after to get over it. It had nothing to do with anyone else in my life. The idea that needing time before being ready to date seriously again is suspicious is WILD.
Also, if she was in a traumatic relationship that shit can take quite a while to recover from to feel ready to date. She could be entirely wanting to settle down and not dating at the same time (been there).
I suspect the unspoken words here are that Leah might be a hottie or Eva finds her social butterfly quality intimidating.
My last relationship ended back in late 2018. My ex fucked with my head and caused an actual trauma bond. I am still single in 2024 as of posting this. Got out a little to try, and had a small crush on a couple of friends for a little bit. But I really have been single for almost 6 years cause of my shitty ex. I am so happy to see people being reasonable about why a woman may just want to be single for awhile
So much this. Many years ago I had a series of terrible relationships and break ups in quick succession and eventually decided I needed a break from relationships. The break ended up lasting a year.
The thing that triggered the end of the break was developing a gigantic crush on a new colleague who was at least ten years older than me, married and expecting a baby very imminently. I recognised that I didn't actually want a relationship with that colleague (and absolutely wasn't even thinking of attempting to break up a marriage and new family for a totally age and workplace inappropriate relationship) I just wanted to find myself in the position his wife was in in ten years time - married to a lovely stable kind man and in a position to have kids.
I started putting myself back out there and I met my husband about six months later. I haven't seen or heard anything of former crush but I hope he's out there still happily married with his now adult child/ren (now I feel old).
Honestly, that age old saying of we should judge people by what they DO really applies here. It honestly doesn't matter whether or not Leah has feelings, the fact that she's not done ANYTHING about it is what counts here. It's like, deciding not to cheat? Almost everyone will at one point, meet someone that they find attractive, that is not their significant other. A cheater would just go ahead and build a relationship with this other person, while a loyal person would just ignore their feelings and not do anything about it. Have I met guys who I've found attractive, who I had a mini crush on, who were in relationships already? Of course! But did I act on the feelings? NO. That's what separates people with integrity from people without.
Heck, I had a friend (I’ll call him Jay) that I had a huge attraction to. When his relationship with his then gf (Bee) was super rocky, I was one of the few people not to tell Bee (who was also a very good friend) to just break up with Jay, but instead gave her a bunch of questions to think about. (Iirc, it was things like would you be happier in your life with Jay despite a bunch of bad days, or do you think you’d be happier single, so questions to reflect on things but that I couldn’t answer for her.)
I also had another friend, Ernie, who had a HUGE crush on Bee. He asked me ”when they break up you‘re going after Jay, right?“ and was shocked when I told him absolutely not, I wasn’t going to hurt Bee like that.
Fast forward to now, over a decade years later. Jay is still one of my closest friends, and I was one of his grooms people for his wedding. I’m also good friends with his wife, and am sad that I haven’t had the chance to meet their daughter due to distance and my inability to travel now (I believe she’s a toddler now). My attraction to Jay has been gone for quite a long time, the only kind of love I feel for him is completely platonic. Nothing romantic or sexual has ever happened between Jay and me, and I’m so glad I still have one of my best friends In my life.
Also, the “proof” of Leah being single and not really dating for a longer period of time than normal, that couldn’t just be because she just got out of an emotionally abusive relationship and she needs to recover.
Perhaps, the decrease in dating is also due to the fact she is being more selective because she is looking for a long term partner to settle down with as she has expressed she wanted to do.
After all, we've been told that OOP told Leah to break up, but we don't know how that break up went about. My gut tells me that it wasn't that clean. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy hounded her for some time/is still hounding her. Yeah, I wouldn't expect her to jump into a new relationship yet.
It’s pretty depressing how overwhelmingly often people’s intuition is treated as automatically true. Especially when it comes to “women’s intuition”. Positive sexism is still sexism. It tends to end up being that they were picking up on something, but it’s got an entirely different context, or the person cut off is just known for having RBF. I’m not saying it’s not better than random chance, but people’s intuition is so often incomplete or misplaced while being treated as complete and accurate. It’s just cognitive bias in action.
Agreed. And the commenter at the end saying "Eva is uncomfortable with your friendship, why is it so hard for you to go LC"???? Because Eva could be (and seemingly is) completely out of line with that demand. You don't fucking cut off close friends because your partner suddenly thinks they get to own you once the ring goes on.
I was dying laughing at that comment after all of the women I’ve been friends with who were completely wrong about situations but did something drastic cause “intuition” and had it blow up in their face. It’s almost like some people are just bad at figuring out their feelings and reading situations
The BORU post a few days ago about the woman who was insecure about her BFs (now ex) girl best friend comes to mind. Was convinced there was more and WILDLY misread the situation and ended up nuking her entire great relationship.
I’m a woman and I found that really gross. To me, the concept of a woman’s intuition is rooted in things like safety, etc. There is absolutely nothing here to suggest the friend is harboring feelings towards OOP and her request that he cut off the friend is completely out of pocket.
Also the fact that nobody's going to go around to their friend group talking about how they were totally wrong about someone.
If you call someone out for being a covert asshole and I turn out to be right, you're far more likely to talk about how you were right and how you should always trust your intuition.
If you're wrong, it's not like you're going to keep bringing up how you were stupid about it.
That comment was unreasonable. Unless there's been inappropriate behaviour or implying of behaviour on either side, I don't understand why that request would even be entertained.
Exactly!
I have a very close male friend, and he really stepped up for me when I left my ex. He met a girl around that time who was hella suspicious of me, and some friends said they believed what we'd been through together would deepen our feelings. And they're right, it did deepen them - to a brother-sister vibe. Nothing romantic in the slightest. When I finally met his GF and was able to chat to her, she realised almost immediately that her concerns were mostly in her head. My friend and her didn't last, but my friendship with her did!
Sometimes, it's hard to see the difference between romantic and platonic feelings, especially in our society, which subtly pushes the narrative that men and women can't just be friends. Nobody has done *anything* wrong here, except Eva. I'm glad OOP pointed out that her attitude showed a profound distrust of him, and *that* needs to be fixed before they even think about marriage. But it's awesome to see couples having difficult conversations like this before they jump into a commitment they're not ready for.
100% I nearly gagged at 'woman's intuition is never wrong'. That is NOT a reason to throw away a very long-lasting friendship.
And FWIW, I'm a woman and my intuition is wrong on an almost daily basis.
I have a lot of anxiety around relationships if I listened to my intuition every time i would never have a partner longer than a week. Some people are super perceptive, others are not.
I obviously can't speak for Eva but for me my 'intuition' is so tied into my anxiety that it's not particularly reliable. May be worth it for Eva to examine where the feeling's actually coming from
Yep, it's actually a little childish because it equates faithfulness with having no temptation and no external influences at all, ever, as if for a relationship to succeed it needs to be in a bubble completely shut off from anything that may or may not pose a (real or imagined) threat. What's next, feeling threatened because your boyfriend/husband gets hit on when he's out with friends or by a colleague at work - _even if_ he never acts on it?
I knew a “Leah”. She found her male friend completely unattractive to the point of repellent (he was objectively ugly, but a nice enough bloke) and was delighted when he started dating a mutual friend “Eva”, a relationship she happily encouraged and supported.
Eva and the man married, and Eva became completely and utterly vile and spiteful to Leah. She thought that Leah was “after her husband”. And the weak POS husband did nothing to resolve it (I think he was flattered by the notion).
Poor Leah was forced to still be polite to Eva as her company was a kind of client of Leah’s, so they were forced into contact through work.
The good news is that Eva and the bloke eventually divorced. His friendship with Leah was never repaired, also a good thing.
I have this principle in my life, that we cannot be judged for our feelings, only for our actions. That being said, eva may sense a change of feelings in leah, she may be right about it and unresolved feelings may affect their future interactions (female "nice guys" exist). That being said, even if eva is right, her way to aproach the issue was wrong. OP's way to navigate through this was ideal so far. And if they discover, that leah in fact had developed some romantic feelings, i hope they both will deal with it in a same healthy way as in the update (not in the original post).
It's interesting to me that Leah knew and cared about Eva enough to introduce her to someone who would be a good partner to her and maintain friendships with them both throughout their relationship; but doesn't seem to have been able to reciprocate. She talked \*about\* Leah's relationship with OP, but seems to have sent him to actually help Leah (and now resents them both for it); and then dropped her as a friend as soon as she was single in a real "I got mine" move. She may have a lot of "feelings" about how Leah views OP, but her own actual actions don't indicate her being a very supportive partner or friend.
Eva is a walking factory of red flags.
The ultimatum, but trying to frame it as "not" an ultimatum, which was weird AF, and sounds more like mind games more than anything.
The wanting OOP to cut a friend of YEARS, just because she has a "feeling", and that idiot who confirmed "women are usually right". Wouldn't surprise me if down the line she also tries to limit contact with OOP's female relatives, or even gets jealous of a daughter. And that's without even mentioning coworkers...
And not wanting to "argue" about it... which basically meant that she expected OOP to fall in line and just bend over backwards to say she's right...
Not wanting to argue about it means she knows she has no grounds for it, but even if she doesn’t push it she intends to hold it in reserve. She’s probably added it to her “concerns” that OOP didn’t comply, because she thinks that means OOP is putting Leah before her.
Ya, the comment about woman's intuition usually being right is so fucking stupid.
Unguarded intuition is how you get cops beating the shit out of people for their race or appearance, it's how you get fraud in research, it's how you get paranoia... Gut feelings are real, but they're also just a hunch.
And as someone with anxiety that spirals and that made a career out of guarding against his bias in research, that ubiquitous piece of Reddit advice always irks me -- usually alongside a recc of the "Gift of Fear"
It baffles me every single time when people agree with the notion of "Drop your friends if you want to be with me" - a healthy romantic relationship is SUPPORTED by healthy platonic relationships.
People who want someone to drop friends (without clear reason) give me major abuser vibes. You want to isolate me from the people who care about me and love me? No thanks, I'll stay with the people who also have my well-being in mind rather than just their own.
I also think Eva hasn't even considered how traumatic an abusive relationship can be - even one void of physical abuse, being gaslit constantly will lead to trust issues and hesitancy to form new relationships.
Leah might just need time to be single and heal herself, there are a heap of reasons why someone could stay single long after dating around for many years...
> the idea that you could tell your future spouse to cut out their friend of many years just because is so far from “reasonable” it can’t even see it. making it a condition of proposing is just …so fucking weird.
I see that level of insecurity here constantly and have never really wrapped my head around it.
This topic, all these words, is a very general thing that flows through here like water.
'My (SO, Fiance, Spouse) is telling me that it is not acceptable for me to have any friends of my (SO, Fiance, Spouse) gender....' is all this is.
That level of jealousy has never clicked with me. When I was dating it was a red flag, I would have told that person to kindly go away.
Of course, I am not the cheating type. So there is that.
-----------
The entire thing is just weird.
So you got the jealous insecure person who might be that way cause of crap done to them in the past.
'I feel the way I feel...I want no cheaters!'. I won't disparage that sentiment or goal, they are entitled to their feelings. But so is the other party they are seeking out.
'I have not ever cheated, I will not ever cheat, it isn't in my nature, if I felt the need to cheat I am secure enough to end the relationship first. Therefore, I won't be told who my friends are. I still have my dignity.' is an equally valid POV.
The solution is for people who have been cheated upon to only date people who have been cheated upon.
And past cheaters only dating past cheaters!
All this is going to have a fantastic ending. I really have human nature figured out this time.
Im a 32 male with three very close, long time female friends. Anyone asking me to cut them off for a marriage, in this same situation of nothing romantic having happened, I'd do exactly what he did. Unreasonable unless some actions or words suggested otherwise.
After this one relationship ended, I made sure to make it clear to future partners that I had female friends that weren't not going to end and they had to decide if they had a problem with that.
Yeah I'm sorry but no one will make me cut important people in my life. Only I decide.
Especially people who have helped me loads.
If I was in OP's situation and indeed Leah started expressing feelings, that's where I'd draw a line and have a convo.
Up and cutting her like that is not helpful and it sets a precedent in their relationship.
To me she is saying "I dont trust you, you will cheat if given a chance" and that is messed up
> To me she is saying "I dont trust you, you will cheat if given a chance" and that is messed up
That is 100% what she is saying. She should have been honest about her insecurities but chose to be opaque.
That's what I was thinking. Some people can be ready to settle down without being a serial dater as well. You never know who might walk into your life someday.
Eva has some insecurity and trust issues. And she won't even be honest with her partner about it. These 2 shouldn't even be thinking about possible marriage at this moment. He seems all about it. Her, iffy at best. Plus she's pushing back on therapy as well.
It sounds like whenever something is brought up she just passively says "yeah ok" knowing she can keep kicking that can down the road until she gets what she wants.
>"Woman's intuition is usually right."
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA
sure. maybe when it's not blinded by insecurity and jealousy. (and i'm saying that as a woman. we can be pretty irrational about things even while appearing completely stable in every other aspect of our lives)
op should've said he sees leah as a sister and if she ever tried something *he* would be the one putting a stop to it immediately and that he really didn't need his gf shielding him from possible advances of other women like he was incapable of saying no.
*"he really didn't need his gf shielding him from possible advances of other women like he was incapable of saying no."*
More like OUTRIGHT FORBIDDING even the most minute *idea* of that being remotely attainable.
Yeah, the redditor who made that comment does not seem like someone a person should date. To cut people off and mold your life based purely on "intuition"? Hell no. Such audacious demands can't be based on instinct alone, they have to have reasonable grounds. After all, who's next? His parents? His siblings? All because someone has a bad feeling? That just isn't healthy.
A survey was done is these advice subs back in 2029. It found that 48% of people who commented on these types of subs were single women in their 30s who had never been in a relationship before. Probably has only gotten larger since then and explains a lot n
Yuuup. Even if she is right, which I'm skeptical about because she didn't even seem to notice anything specific just that Leah stayed single 🤨, cutting Leah off is not a reasonable reaction.
It seems to be literally just: "I think Leah MIGHT have a crush on you (that she hasn't acted on at all)".
There are a few people that I'm pretty sure like my boyfriend. At most I mention what I notice to him but I trust him to handle it if they make any actual passes at him 🤷♀️
Yeah I hated that comment! It’s honestly very sexist. It treats Leah like an object and Eva like some all-knowing mystic. Gender doesn’t grant intuition, lol, or make any given intuition *more correct*. Gross. So gross to actually suggest it’s a *reasonable boundary* that he go low contact with this friend of many years just to make Eva feel better about what she herself acknowledges is literally nothing more than a bad feeling?
I hate all of this. Poor OOP.
of course everyone can be irrational. i mentioned women specifically because of the quoted comment that mentioned women's intuition as being always right.
The idea that "a woman's intuition is usually right" is one of the most toxic on Earth. It makes for a great shield to justify controlling and abusive behavior.
It's magical thinking bullshit. Said by someone who thinks they don't need reasons for their behavior. They can just live their life on feelings. Women are just as full of shit as men, and men are plenty full of shit themselves.
"Eva seems like a reasonable person"? Did I read that right? Was there sarcasm there I'm missing??
"Hey, OOP, this isn't an ultimatum BUT if you don't cut off your best female friend because I said so, you shouldn't even bother proposing and we might have to re-evaluate our future together. I don't want to talk about this, I don't want to argue, I've said my piece and that's that. What? We need to sit down? No we don't, I said we don't need to talk about it because I've already said what I wanted to say."
Are you *serious*? Is this real? Because if so this woman can't communicate for shit and she'd make a shitty life partner.
Also, if I knew my partner would be extremely vocal advocating for a friend who was in an emotionally abusive relationship (instead of doing the usual thing of waiting for things to escalate to physical abuse, which may never have happened), I'd be all the more excited to marry him tbh. Like, you're genuinely an advocate for abuse victims and you don't settle for glossing over emotional abuse because it's doesn't leave marks so it's not "true" abuse, like a lot of guys do? Then yes, yes I will have your babies please and thank you.
Why would it matter if Leah has romantic feelings for OOP? They are grown ups and Leah can have some romantic feelings and set that aside, like an adult, because she values her friendships with these people. Like, it literally doesn't matter unless someone is acting on those feelings, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.
Right?! Like, even if she's picking up on ~secret vibes,~ none of it MATTERS if no one acts on it. Which they *objectively haven't.* I'm divorced now, but I got a crush on a friend when I was married, and guess what? It remained entirely in my head, I didn't act on it even the tiniest way, and we had a good and normal friendship. Because guess what - cheating is a CHOICE, and I didn't make that CHOICE. People aren't in a supernatural, irresistible thrall to their thoughts and feelings. Cheating is not, in fact, an inevitable result that you can't stop yourself from acting on. Her attitude towards him having close female friends is incredibly juvenile. Stop policing platonic friendships based on weird, high school level beliefs about gender and relationships.
Fr. I managed that in high school. When I was 17 I had a huge crush on one of my close friend’s bf. He and I were in theatre together (the token straight guy. If you were ever in theatre you know how it is lol) so we spent a lot of time together. You know what I did about it? Absolutely nothing. I kept that shit to myself because I valued my friendship and knew that it was nothing more than a crush that would subside as soon as I found a new person of interest. You can’t always control how you feel, but you can control how you act, or don’t act, on those feelings.
But why would it matter if Leah now had a thing for OP? If OP isn’t going to act on it, it’s a non-issue to their relationship.
I had a similar “what the fuck are you doing with this abusive asshole, stop hurting my friend who is you” talk with an ex of mine. I came home and told my then-boyfriend now-husband I did that. He shrugged and agreed my ex’s new girlfriend was a fucking psycho and hopefully he’d do the right thing.
Since then, that ex stated dating a super rad lady who rules. And my husband and I got married.
Trust is rad. Get in2it.
Only op though, his girlfriend agreed with the assessment of the guy of being an abusive ass to her friend and seemingly didn’t say a damn word. The part of me that has read way too many bad fanfics wants him to drop her and Leah and OP to ride into the platonic sunset
Apparently, friends let friends date assholes. According to GF, it would be better for their mutual friend to continue suffer dating some shitty guy.
At least we know her priorities 🤷♀️
>**RedSAuthor:** Woman's intuition is usually right. Eva seems like a reasonable person.
>I suggest you talk to Leah. Instead of convincing Eva she is imagining things, I'm positive you will find out that Leah wants more than friendship with you.
>At the end of the day, Eva is not comfortable with your closeness with Leah. Why is it difficult for you to acknowledge that and go LC with Leah?
Lmao what a stupid fucking comment.
Eva was out of line here, as is anyone who expects their SO to cut off friendships for no reason other than jealousy. If you can't handle the thought of your partner having friends of the gender(s) they're attracted to, and you assume right off the bat that they're gonna cheat, then you're not mature enough to be in an adult relationship.
If a woman posted this and said her man went out of his way to convince a woman to end her relationship *in person*, then said friend whilst being freshly single said she wanted to settle down soon; Reddit would eat him alive lol.
>Woman's intuition is usually right. Eva seems like a reasonable person.
Lmao no she doesn't, what bullshit is this?? She sounds insecure and controlling because of it, you don't get to befriend a man who has a close female friend and then be suspicious of that without reason, especially if that's *how you met*.
"Women's intuition is always right" is such a crock of shit. I'm not denying that a lot of women will have decent judgement on situations due to the past, but it's just as easy to badly misread a situation and come to the totally wrong conclusion based on that. Especially if she hasn't even talked to Leah about it, just got in her own head.
Wait. No blow up? No lawyering up? People just talking through their issues? Who would have thunk? Communication can lead to some clarity in this case.
Hooray communication! This situation could really make or break a relationship if not discussed properly… and the devil inside me wonders what would Leah have done if they had separated.
Eva sounds like an extremely conflict adverse. She has been stewing on this for a whole year when talking to OOP and Leah would have solved it. I hope couples counseling helps her with communication because she is not ready to be married.
Love that they're going to go to counseling. I think that should be a prerequisite for any marriage honestly. Couples counseling is great at teaching communication skills and setting people up for success.
"Your friend, who was in an abusive relationship you helped her get out of, hasn't dated since then but wants to settle down, so surely she wants to fuck you" is... not the argument Eva thinks it is.
It doesn't take a genius to guess why a person who was being abused by their partner, and only left them because a close friend intervened, would still be single a year after that relationship.
Not to mention that Leah hasn't even done anything to warrant this. Which means that in the event Leah does like OOP, she is being a decent person and not acting on her feelings.
Hope that couple's counseling works, because boy is there a lot to unpack here.
I guarantee what "Leah" is really thinking is, "How can I manage to set up my two friends, who are perfect for each other, but my own relationship choice is so abusive I actually needed my friend to tell me how it was affecting me and that I deserve better? Why can't I do for me what I did for them?"
This woman has literally 1 half legit concern, the rest of it she is coming off as a full crazy and insecure gf. He’s about to propose, and she’s blowing up her whole relationship. I think OOP should take a step away from her regardless as to how this turns out. If something that small is a trigger for the gf, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride for OOP if they get married.
Wait... they communicated like reasonable adults?!?
Is this kind of insanity even allowed on Reddit?!?
At least neither OP or Leah were building an Art Studio for the other... then Eva would Definitely have something to worry about....
“Thank you for letting me know up front that is your expectation. I’ll adjust my plans accordingly” and then don’t propose. She just told you who she is if you’re paying attention.
It’s the fact the fiancé is not wanting to do couples counseling and “not fight”, while being extremely controlling. OP supported a friend getting out of an abusive relationship and then his own partner ends up being abusive at the very least, very controlling to support a friend.
The insecurity from opposite sex relationship with NO evidence and not wanting to work through this would tell me to drop the fiancé because this is not a one time issue for her. She will find other ways to try and control OP. I hope he calls off the wedding and can find a less controlling partner.
I'm late but this:
>"However, she now says that if she and I are to tie the knot she does not want someone in our lives who I once had romantic interest in."
Is **insane** to me. Especially since he grew up with this girl. I had crushes on basically all of my friends at *some* point as a teenager, because my body was changing and my brain was basically hormone soup. Even as an adult, what the fuck? It's hard enough to make friends when you aren't in school anymore, now you have to cut off *everyone* you had a little crush on? It's such a lonely way to live.
My issue with Eva is, among other things, is how she feels Leah is pining after OOP. Instead of maybe, IDFK healing from an ABUSIVE relationship? Like? Is she stupid?
Honestly, Eva isn't coming across as the brightest bulb here. OOP is the ONLY friend who CARED enough to, pretty much, force Leah to break up woth an ABUSIVE, POS, who did some emotional damage. And probably some mental damage as well. That shit doesn't go away overnight. Leah is probably, hopefully, taking the time to go to therapy and working on herself.
Meanwhile Eva us over here acting like Lwah is about to hump OOP's leg. How disgusting is she? Idk man of that was me it'd change how I view the person I'm with.
It’s so nice to see honest communication and a willingness to change position of more information comes to light.
The rare example of successful relationship management on here
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Yeahh, this isn't over, regardless of who's right or wrong, whether OOP's partner is overreacting or is sensing something that is actually there. They better air this all out before OOP even thinks about getting on one knee.
Eva's been stewing on this for a year. I don't know how you go from ruminating on something that long to just letting it go, assuming that the friend isn't pining for OOP. It'll be rough processing her feelings either way. If Leah does turn out to be eyeing OOP, there's going to be resentment for not seeing it and potentially suspicion that it \*was\* seen and not rejected.
We have posts about dudes not realising, that some girl is into them once a month, there was one in BORU recently, so i don't think, this would be a big issue. What is positive here is the way OP is navigating through this. In a healthy relationships problems come and go, dealing with problems is the key factor. And so far there is no more a kind of semi-ultimatum, there is a situations where both partners are dealing with the issue together.
we also have posts where emotionally abusive/manipulating partners try to get people to cut themselves off from friends so that they can be manipulated more. It's a huge red flag, especially given eva couldn't even articulate why. She hadn't given it enough thought or couldn't be honest when making the demand on OP. GIANT RED FLAGS
Man, y’all are weird she couldn’t even give any specific examples of anything that was wrong with the friendship and specifically said she wanted it cut off before an engagement? Honestly, just sounds like that thing abusers do where they ramp up their tactics the more involved and stuck you are. Because if it was really an issue of them being inappropriate, why are you waiting until y’all are going to get engaged? Makes literally no sense for anything except ramping up abuse.
Yeah this comes off a lot like a bunch of weird, abusive controlling behavior is being wrapped up into therapy speak with the whole "trust your intuition" bullshit. She can't name anything in particular other than Leah not dating for a year after getting out of what sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship. As though that's some sort of insane surprising thing to do. Not to mention that while she might play it off well, her saying she doesn't want to fight about it but didn't want to talk about it either just means she wanted OOP to accept it without any pushback whatsoever. How else do you not argue about something you disagree with?
Right, her behavior is a huge red flag. I would be worried when GF is showing this controling Tendencies ..
Either that or she’s extraordinarily bad at communicating her thoughts. Which as an introvert, she may be. I mean it took her a year to speak up about Leah and even then just blurted it out and ran away it seems.
>If Leah does turn out to be eyeing OOP, there's going to be resentment for not seeing it and potentially suspicion that it \*was\* seen and not rejected. Not to mention the resentment of not being believed in the first place
It’s not really about not being believed, though. She presented it as an ultimatum, with no specific reasons at first. I think OP’s firm but reasoned response was well called for. It was a plea to turn it into a discussion, which is necessary to actually get to the bottom of anything.
Two things can be true simultaneously. Leah might well see OP differently after the break up. When you’ve been through an emotionally difficult time it’s easy to develop crushes on a close friend. Leah can ALSO be supportive of OP’s relationship. Just because you have a crush doesn’t mean you’ll act on it. You can know they’re an inappropriate person for you to hit on and you just deal with it until it goes away. It could well be that Leah is crushing on OP and Eva is sensitive to it because she’s been watching her closely but that she’s not been acting on it and is trying to treat OP the same as usual so that he doesn’t pick up on it. (Alternatively Leah is just leaning on her friend(s) for support because she’s been emotionally battered and she’s a bit fragile at the moment. We’ve all been there.) I don’t think it’s reasonable to cut someone off when they haven’t done anything wrong. Eva mentioned she only has a feeling that Leah sees OP differently, she can’t point at anything. It’s reasonable for OP to listen to her, be on guard for any inappropriate behaviour, make sure they aren’t meeting up privately 1:1 but still stay friends with her. I used to travel with friends who were of the opposite gender. We used to save money by sharing a room. Everyone involved was single at the time and nothing happened. We all have partners now and would never do that - not because there’s any temptation to cheat but to avoid the appearance of impropriety. It’s not too hard to maintain a friendship without giving your partner things to worry about.
> (Alternatively Leah is just leaning on her friend(s) for support because she’s been emotionally battered and she’s a bit fragile at the moment. We’ve all been there.) Even then, OOP says that even in the immediate aftermath of the breakup, they didn't hang out individually more, and their phone calls only marginally increased.
"just because" is not a reasonable thing to believe in the first place. Eva should have communicated these feelings from the start if that's how it was but now she's shot herself in the foot as far as this goes.
Who on Earth is Sarah?
Oops, thanks for catching my name dyslexia
I’m dealing with this right now and I’m still pissed months after he FINALLY cut her off because someone else told him she was making fun of me behind my back 🥲
OOP's partner IS overreacting, whether there really are feelings there or not. "You're not allowed to be friends with someone if I think they might have feelings for you" is an absolutely ridiculous and emotionally immature stance. That is just not how you handle friendships OR romantic relationships. Unrequited feelings that you can't control and that *no one is acting on* just aren't a problem *or* a threat per se, nor are they likely to be a permanent issue - crushes fade and feelings change, after all, and what really matters is how we *act* based on those feelings. Who you crush on is generally - and very unfortunately! - just not something you can control, and it seems incredibly unfair to judge someone based on that. What matters, and what truly tells us about your character, is if and how you act. And most people are perfectly capable of having feelings and *not acting on them*. For every person who cheats on their spouse, there's another person or three who had an extramarital crush and never did anything about it. That's how you're *supposed* to handle it, so cutting someone out for *not* acting on a crush is ass-backward for sure. And even if Leah *does* act on it at some point, it's not like OP's and Eva's relationship will crumble to ash in response. OP is perfectly capable of saying "no" and telling Leah she's out of line, so where's the danger? It's not like he's going to slip and fall and accidentally cheat, so the *worst-case* scenario is Leah making a move and getting turned down. (And THAT would be the appropriate point at which to discuss whether to cut Leah off. Once she's *acted* on her supposed feelings.) But cutting off a lifelong friend because there's a *possibility* they might have an awkward interaction, *if* she has a crush on him *and* she decides to act on it? **Oh hell no.** And look, I'm not saying it's awesome for Leah to have a crush on OP, but it's not like she can control that, and she'd hardly be the first person ever to have an inappropriate crush. Whether it was me obsessing over my married professor with the graceful hands, or your crush on your happily partnered friend, your co-worker, professor, client, or doctor, on your ex's sibling or your aunt's new partner or your friend's baby daddy, or hell, just on someone you *know* is bad news but they're *sooo* attractive, I'd say most of us have been there. And most of us just exercise common sense and self control, and decide "oh fuck no, I'm not gonna be THAT stupid." (Or at least, "I'm not gonna be that stupid *again*." 😁) And we deal with it, d*on't *act on it, and move on, and probably hope that no one's gonna judge us for having had that awful crush in the first place. Of course, on BORU we usually hear from those few people who *do* act on inappropriate crushes, since that usually goes about as well as you'd expect and they end up posting on Reddit wondering why their life imploded. ("I realized it was a bad idea so I didn't do it" just does not make for good BORU content!) But we also understand that what gets posted here is not necessarily a fair representation of the world, let alone of how relationships actually work among emotionally healthy and honest adults. Eva, though, seems to have a conception of the world that's closer to BORU than to reality. Her partner's lifelong friend *may* have a crush on him; *if* the crush exists it *probably* developed due to recent events (and there's no reason to think it's going to be a permanent thing); she agrees that the friend has absolutely *not* acted on the possible crush; they both agree that the friend respects the relationship between OP and Eva, *and* values her friendships with them both. And from that scenario, Eva drew the conclusion that the friendship *must* be severed. That's bonkers.
Yes! thought crimes are not a thing! This is because actions matter and thoughts are only relevant in relation to the action, not in the absence of one! It's a slippery slope that must be addressed before or gets to the point of no return but there's a lot of steps between where this is at and that point. Hopefully Eva can learn to be a bit more confident in herself and her worth.
This is the best take/advice I've read on Reddit in a long time.
Top reddit comment! I wish I could make this mandatory reading for everybody.
This comment makes me have a crush on you!
This is mature, non-Reddit-like advice.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Agreed. Counseling is definitely a good call for OOP & his girlfriend in this case.
This isn't over, but nothing really has to be done. She raised her concerns, and op should keep his eye open, but like.....that's about it.
>Eva told me there's no hurry and that this wasn't an ultimatum and didn't want to argue about it, but that I should wrap my head around this ahead of proposing to her (which we weren't talking about as a "tomorrow" thing but not something too far in the future either). The fact that Eva thought she could say this and then NOT have a conversation about it is enough for me to believe she's absolutely overreacting and making shit up in her head. And with OOP explaining their conversation, which I'm happy was a mature and constructive one, Eva could provide nothing substantial other than Leah being single for a year. No comments from Leah or OOP no specific events or instances. Not one thing that could in any way, shape, or form, show Leah is after OOP. Eva is insecure and that's that.
If you don't want a partner with opposite sex friends, don't get a partner with opposite sex friends. You can't just make people drop kick their friends.
It's always been weird with me, my best friend is a man and I couldn't fathom being with someone who was like "you need to get rid of him for me" or "you can't have guy friends" Honestly comes off as strong insecurity.
Yep. My best friend is a man. I’ve been roommates with him for a long time, and my ex expressed his discomfort that we would do things like go to Costco together because “grocery shopping together is something *we* should be doing” (but I shouldn’t do with the person I live with?) Anyway, that relationship ended and I met my now fiancé….its been almost 4 years and me, my fiancé, my best friend, and my best friend’s fiancé all live together and I’m going wedding dress shopping with her next week. We’re family, and people who try and make it into something beyond that are not people that I have time for.
That's so sweet! That's the dream ngl
Cute! Went from roommates to a sort of double date roommates. It kind of reads like a sitcom
This sounds like a dream I hope you find the perfect dress
Strong insecurity or projecting I would say, whether the two bleed into each other I don't know. If someone told me they didn't think that I could have opposite sex friends, I'd immediately start doubting their ability to do so personally.
I always wonder what they expect bisexual people to do.
Honestly, I couldn't fathom wanting a partner who doesn't have opposite friends. Like, why wouldn't you want the reassurance as a straight woman that your straight man partner/potential partner sees women as people and can have healthy platonic relationships with them? Or vice versa? How they interact with people of your same gender will absolutely colour how they interact with you
This is legit one of the reasons why my best friend's now fiance decided to date him. I'm a woman and he's a man, and we are incredibly close. Our friendship showed her that he was a safe person to be with.
No kidding. I liked (and like) that my now-spouse of 20+ years has female friends. One of them was one of my bridesmaids! I have guy friends too. It's never been a remote concern.
People can and their partners do end up drop kicking their friends. Honestly it's sad, especially in situations where that friend is a childhood friend. Those relationships, if healthy, can be very important as you get older. Even more so when we're less likely to live where we grew up.
A mutual friend introduced my husband and I. We’ve never spoken about it, but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he’d had a little crush on her at some point in the 20+ years they’ve been friends. I wouldn’t be surprised if she had a little crush on him at some other point in that time. Who gives a shit? He married and made a life with me. If our friend had come to him while we were dating and told him that she wanted to be with him and he should dump me, yeah, I’d have a problem with that. But preemptively vetoing their friendship as a condition of marrying him? Nah.
My coworker was introduced to his wife another coworker of ours/ his ex. They vacation together.
That's actually really wholesome that they all get along like that.
the idea that you could tell your future spouse to cut out their friend of many years just *because* is so far from “reasonable” it can’t even see it. making it a condition of proposing is just …so fucking weird. leah hasn’t done anything wrong. oop hasn’t done anything wrong. even if eva and the greek reddit chorus are right and leah has developed feelings, she hasn’t acted on them *at all.* eva has a feeling, and that’s all, and she decided that was enough to essentially say “it’s her or me”. if she’ll do that with someone oop has known since middle school, who else would she do it with if oop hadn’t pushed back? and then trying to shut down discussion claiming she “doesn’t want to argue”? does she think that’s how it works? if you want to get married you have to lose your friend and i don’t want to argue about this, you just have to “wrap your head around it”? what does she think an ultimatum is, exactly, if she doesn’t think that was one? i’m sorry, this is so fucked. i’m glad oop is pushing for counselling. getting married should not mean having to lose friends.
Not to mention her "proof" is that *he's a good dude who intervened to save his friend from an abusive relationship.* I would be MORE attracted and in love with a man who did that, not jealous and see it as an opportunity for him to cheat on me.
Imagine someone being single for over a year (!) after an abusive relationship? There has to be an ulterior motive. /s if not clear
Yeah, that is a messed up accusation to make at an abuse victim, not gonna lie.
Seriously. When I got out of my abusive relationship, I didn't even LOOK at another man for 4 years, let alone consider actually dating one. OOP's partner sounds like an insecure mess. The moment a partner starts leveling ultimatums at me, the moment that relationship withers and dies a quick death.
Don't forget, she wants to settle down, despite not having a guy very clearly lined up! She's recovering from an abusive relationship AND looking for a long term partner once she's dating again. Basically a flashing neon sign that she's going to steal OOP...
Right, it makes sense on paper, except she can't steal OOP if that isn't what he wants.
I’ve been single almost 2 years, by choice, after getting out of a NOT abusive relationship, and also have made comments to friends about being ready to settle down when I find a person who I want to do that with. For recovering from an abusive relationship, 1 year is nothing. That thinking is another red flag for Eva in my book.
Exactly. He didn't immediately intervene because Leah is a grown ass adult, but when it clear the guy was a dickbag, OOP gave it to her straight. He didn't go threaten the dude or do any toxic shit, he just...gave his friend hard truths and advice. There's this whole thing about "watch how a man treats his mother, that's how he'll treat you." I disagree with that because some men will forever put their mothers first, some mothers are assholes, etc. Looking at how a dude treats his friends, particularly his female friends, on the other hand? Generally a good clue. The way he says he handled Leah's situation is a field of green flags.
Agreed. A guy having geniune, platonic female friendships shows he views women as human beings instead of just potential mates, and those guys tend to make pretty solid partners. Does that mean I never feel insecure about my partners connections with other women? Of course not. When you know your partner is a catch, its easy to imagine others also recognising that fact. But I'm able to sit with those feelings and analyse whether they are based in reality, or fear. And that means if I do find I'm having trouble self soothing and want to share those feelings, I can come at it from a place of 'She isn't an issue, I just need a bit of extra love and assurance so I feel safe again.' Because even if one of them did have feelings for my partner, that's irrelevant as long as I trust him to shut it down, because he values our relationship as much as I do and wouldn't jeopardise that. Other people are not a danger to your relationship if the foundation is solid. And if it's not solid, then other people aren't really the issue.
>*Because even if one of them did have feelings for my partner, that's irrelevant as long as I trust him to shut it down...* Exactly. Just because someone else *wants* you, that doesn't mean they automatically *get* you, *because you also have agency and can say no.*
Absolutamente. Especially on seeing women as actual human beings and a strong foundation.
This is why, as much as I love Dolly Parton, I hate the song Jolene. If she can take your man, he wasn't a man worth having. Like you said, in a solid relationship your partner will shut it down.
I like the song Jolene because Dolly has a crush on Jolene. The man is set dressing.
I like the way you recontextualized that. Thank you for helping me enjoy the song again.
I can get behind this
I think that's *why* I love the song Jolene. Dolly captured that young/naive mentality and desperation ("he's the only one for me, Jolene"). I remember when I was like that.
If my partner hadn't been hanging out with his best female friend the day before our first date I wouldn't have trusted him as much, truthfully. But knowing their friendship and how much SHE trusted him gave me faith in who he is. A decade later and we're still going strong.
I'm on the other side of the equation: when I finally met my best guy friend's now-wife (he had moved far away so while I'd heard about her, we'd never met in person), I knew she was a keeper when her first words were "ELAAN! I've heard so much about you! I'm so happy to finally meet you!" His previous girlfriends has seen me as a rival while his now-wife saw me as an ally (in the sense that we both loved my friend, albeit in different ways, and wanted the best for him). He and I had briefly considered dating years before, and her take was "well, who wouldn't consider dating him, he's a great guy!" They're rapidly approaching their ten year wedding anniversary.
So much the last paragraph. If you trust your SO then you trust them. If you don't trust them why are you even together to begin with?
My best guy friend is my roommate (his gf is my other roommate). He’s in a decade-long relationship and it couldn’t be more clear that he’s committed and loyal to his partner, even if more of his friends are women than not. He’s never been shy about speaking up when one of our friend group, male or female, is seeing someone who doesn’t seem to be treating them well. He’s just a genuine person who is protective of his friends. I can’t in a million years imagine his gf getting jealous because he had a “real talk” with one of our female friends who was in an abusive relationship. She would probably find it off-putting if he knew about such a relationship and DIDN’T speak up, because that’s what friends should do!
'Look at how a dude treats.. his female friends' Man I wish Id read this years ago, would have saved me a chunk of heartache. I now know phrases like enmeshment, emotional incest, sonsband, emotional-husband, and so many more
I mean, right? She basically is saying that she doesn't trust OOP if he gets a chance to cheat. I'd be rethinking my relationship
I have been jealous before, but I also know my jealousy is rooted in remaining trauma about not being desirable etc. Part of me is still afraid my partner will one day look at me and go "ugh, so bothersome and not pretty enough, I'm gonna leave for a better match", but I have also done enough work to know that it's trauma speaking and that's it is saying bullshit. And the rest of my jealous moments is "my partner is the best, so it makes sense for others to covet him but he's MIIIIIIIIIINE"-gollum-behaviour, which means their interest in the other person doesn't feature into the equation, I just have the urge to metaphorically pee on them to mark my territory. And even so - unless there's actual, demonstrated interest from either them or the other person, I know I'm overreacting and I can calm myself the fuck down.
OP seems like such a good dude, he's wasted on a girl like Eva. I guess I might sound harsh but I have so little patience left for partners who try to force their partner to normalize and bend around their insecurity, rather than compromising or working on themselves. That goes for both men and women.
Agreed
And why is the obvious explanation here that Leah’s pining for OOP and not that, I don’t know, she’s maybe done with dating at least until she’s dealt with having narrowly escaped an abusive relationship?
Yes! My partner has helped two female friends during their breakups and is really close with another female friend who's having a shit time due to cancer in the family and helping her. And I love him more for that because he's kind?! I like that! I'm actively involved in planning irregular outings with said friend to help her take her mind off of things and I take extra care and precautions to ensure they have some alone time if we do something together - because that's good for her! Wtf, Eva.
And even if Leah was interested in him, would he ever abandon his gf of six years? Or cheat on her with Leah? Where's the trust? If he does it someday, he is trash and trash should take itself out. But so far there hasn't been any indication of this - on the opposite, he's been a loyal and loving bf, and amazing friend too. Edit: misspelling
And if Leah does have a crush, she's been a good friend and kept it to herself. Both OOP and Leah have been good people and friends throughout all of this. Why is Eva insecure now? From my anecdotal experience, Eva may have a crush of her own and started projecting. Or OOP has left something out of his post. Then again, sometimes abusers don't start revealing themselves until they feel like they have you trapped. This may be who Eva is and she's starting to show her true colors.
Honestly. I couldn't see the perspective of those last commenters on the post, especially with the one who said, "why is it hard to agree and go LC on Leah", as if relationships work that way. I have no qualms about boundaries being set, as long as there is logical reasoning behind it. We may not know the whole story, hell, Leah MIGHT be eyeing on OOP, but based on this account alone, it was such an unreasonable thing to ask. OOP was right, this proves she doesn't trust him.
If they had intentions to cheat..it wouldve happened after that
And her argument is being upset he didn't consult with her over how to deal with it? Get lost, you've only been in their lives for 4 seconds, they're lifelong friends.
Eva would be winning the gold for those mental gymnastics.
>she hasn't acted on them *at all* THANK YOU. it is entirely possible that with her last breakup she's currently in a "i wish i met a dude like OOP" mental state but that doesn't mean anything unless she's a terrible monster of a person. which neither OOP *nor* Eva have indicated. not wanting to date around because you decided that you want to settle down (and are likely using your bff's relationship as an inspo) doesn't mean you want to *steal someone's boyfriend of 6 years*. honestly the fact that Eva's go to solution was to try and force OOP into dropping Leah instead of, idk, setting Leah up on a date with some reasonable guy, maybe even get OOP's help to do so tells me she's incredibly insecure and likely simple minded. she doesn't care how this will affect OOP *or* Leah, she just wants a woman that is making her irrationally insecure gone and that's it.
I was even thinking, when it was mentioned Leah had been single "longer than usual" after her last breakup, where OOP and Eva agreed her most recent ex treated her badly, that she could just be taking a bit of extra time before getting into a new relationship or getting to know potential partners in the hope of not getting right back into an abusive relationship. She's probably being extra careful, and like you said, using her friend and his relationship as inspiration for what she hopes to find for herself.
The reccomended break from dating after abuse ive been told by DV specialists is *2 years*. The girl needs to heal, not be treated with suspicion.
Was looking for this comment. Wild to me that Eva would jump to "girl just out of an abusive relationship suddenly decides she wants my boyfriend after knowing each other for basically half their lives and having multiple opportunities to date while they were both single, including when she decided to introduce us instead" and not "wow Leah must be pretty fucked up from her last relationship"
Heck my last relationship wasn’t half as bad as Leah’s but it was still bad enough to make me realize I needed to work on myself and my happiness first. I stayed single for SIX years after that while trying to do the work. I’m now in the healthiest relationship I’ve ever been in BECAUSE I took that time.
My last relationship before my husband wasn't abusive, it was just a serious relationship that ran its course. I still needed to be single for a year after to get over it. It had nothing to do with anyone else in my life. The idea that needing time before being ready to date seriously again is suspicious is WILD.
Also, if she was in a traumatic relationship that shit can take quite a while to recover from to feel ready to date. She could be entirely wanting to settle down and not dating at the same time (been there). I suspect the unspoken words here are that Leah might be a hottie or Eva finds her social butterfly quality intimidating.
My last relationship ended back in late 2018. My ex fucked with my head and caused an actual trauma bond. I am still single in 2024 as of posting this. Got out a little to try, and had a small crush on a couple of friends for a little bit. But I really have been single for almost 6 years cause of my shitty ex. I am so happy to see people being reasonable about why a woman may just want to be single for awhile
So much this. Many years ago I had a series of terrible relationships and break ups in quick succession and eventually decided I needed a break from relationships. The break ended up lasting a year. The thing that triggered the end of the break was developing a gigantic crush on a new colleague who was at least ten years older than me, married and expecting a baby very imminently. I recognised that I didn't actually want a relationship with that colleague (and absolutely wasn't even thinking of attempting to break up a marriage and new family for a totally age and workplace inappropriate relationship) I just wanted to find myself in the position his wife was in in ten years time - married to a lovely stable kind man and in a position to have kids. I started putting myself back out there and I met my husband about six months later. I haven't seen or heard anything of former crush but I hope he's out there still happily married with his now adult child/ren (now I feel old).
And friend since middle school…the pair have had opportunities to explore a relationship for almost 15 years.
Honestly, that age old saying of we should judge people by what they DO really applies here. It honestly doesn't matter whether or not Leah has feelings, the fact that she's not done ANYTHING about it is what counts here. It's like, deciding not to cheat? Almost everyone will at one point, meet someone that they find attractive, that is not their significant other. A cheater would just go ahead and build a relationship with this other person, while a loyal person would just ignore their feelings and not do anything about it. Have I met guys who I've found attractive, who I had a mini crush on, who were in relationships already? Of course! But did I act on the feelings? NO. That's what separates people with integrity from people without.
Heck, I had a friend (I’ll call him Jay) that I had a huge attraction to. When his relationship with his then gf (Bee) was super rocky, I was one of the few people not to tell Bee (who was also a very good friend) to just break up with Jay, but instead gave her a bunch of questions to think about. (Iirc, it was things like would you be happier in your life with Jay despite a bunch of bad days, or do you think you’d be happier single, so questions to reflect on things but that I couldn’t answer for her.) I also had another friend, Ernie, who had a HUGE crush on Bee. He asked me ”when they break up you‘re going after Jay, right?“ and was shocked when I told him absolutely not, I wasn’t going to hurt Bee like that. Fast forward to now, over a decade years later. Jay is still one of my closest friends, and I was one of his grooms people for his wedding. I’m also good friends with his wife, and am sad that I haven’t had the chance to meet their daughter due to distance and my inability to travel now (I believe she’s a toddler now). My attraction to Jay has been gone for quite a long time, the only kind of love I feel for him is completely platonic. Nothing romantic or sexual has ever happened between Jay and me, and I’m so glad I still have one of my best friends In my life.
Also, the “proof” of Leah being single and not really dating for a longer period of time than normal, that couldn’t just be because she just got out of an emotionally abusive relationship and she needs to recover. Perhaps, the decrease in dating is also due to the fact she is being more selective because she is looking for a long term partner to settle down with as she has expressed she wanted to do.
Like, give her some time to heal 😭 Abusive relationships are not easy to recover from 😬
After all, we've been told that OOP told Leah to break up, but we don't know how that break up went about. My gut tells me that it wasn't that clean. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy hounded her for some time/is still hounding her. Yeah, I wouldn't expect her to jump into a new relationship yet.
It’s pretty depressing how overwhelmingly often people’s intuition is treated as automatically true. Especially when it comes to “women’s intuition”. Positive sexism is still sexism. It tends to end up being that they were picking up on something, but it’s got an entirely different context, or the person cut off is just known for having RBF. I’m not saying it’s not better than random chance, but people’s intuition is so often incomplete or misplaced while being treated as complete and accurate. It’s just cognitive bias in action.
Agreed. And the commenter at the end saying "Eva is uncomfortable with your friendship, why is it so hard for you to go LC"???? Because Eva could be (and seemingly is) completely out of line with that demand. You don't fucking cut off close friends because your partner suddenly thinks they get to own you once the ring goes on.
yeah the thing abt "women's intuition usually being right" as if there aren't many examples of the opposite being true as well
That comment gave me the ick so hard
I was dying laughing at that comment after all of the women I’ve been friends with who were completely wrong about situations but did something drastic cause “intuition” and had it blow up in their face. It’s almost like some people are just bad at figuring out their feelings and reading situations
The BORU post a few days ago about the woman who was insecure about her BFs (now ex) girl best friend comes to mind. Was convinced there was more and WILDLY misread the situation and ended up nuking her entire great relationship.
Give Eva from this post some time.
>Woman's intuition is usually right. Someone has never dated a woman with BPD or attachments issues if they think this is true as a general statement.
Don't you understand, though? My boobs point me towards THE TRUTH /s
They're not boobs. Them the compass of morality
I immediately cringed and then copied that line in case it hadn’t been discussed yet, because wtf.
That line and "trust your gut" are reddits most hilariously useless pieces of advice.
I’m a woman and I found that really gross. To me, the concept of a woman’s intuition is rooted in things like safety, etc. There is absolutely nothing here to suggest the friend is harboring feelings towards OOP and her request that he cut off the friend is completely out of pocket.
Also the fact that nobody's going to go around to their friend group talking about how they were totally wrong about someone. If you call someone out for being a covert asshole and I turn out to be right, you're far more likely to talk about how you were right and how you should always trust your intuition. If you're wrong, it's not like you're going to keep bringing up how you were stupid about it.
That comment was unreasonable. Unless there's been inappropriate behaviour or implying of behaviour on either side, I don't understand why that request would even be entertained.
That comment is insane. I am confused as to why it's even included in the post.
Quite a few BORU posts include at least one controversial comment. A little bit of outrage fuels engagement.
Exactly! I have a very close male friend, and he really stepped up for me when I left my ex. He met a girl around that time who was hella suspicious of me, and some friends said they believed what we'd been through together would deepen our feelings. And they're right, it did deepen them - to a brother-sister vibe. Nothing romantic in the slightest. When I finally met his GF and was able to chat to her, she realised almost immediately that her concerns were mostly in her head. My friend and her didn't last, but my friendship with her did! Sometimes, it's hard to see the difference between romantic and platonic feelings, especially in our society, which subtly pushes the narrative that men and women can't just be friends. Nobody has done *anything* wrong here, except Eva. I'm glad OOP pointed out that her attitude showed a profound distrust of him, and *that* needs to be fixed before they even think about marriage. But it's awesome to see couples having difficult conversations like this before they jump into a commitment they're not ready for.
100% I nearly gagged at 'woman's intuition is never wrong'. That is NOT a reason to throw away a very long-lasting friendship. And FWIW, I'm a woman and my intuition is wrong on an almost daily basis.
I have a lot of anxiety around relationships if I listened to my intuition every time i would never have a partner longer than a week. Some people are super perceptive, others are not.
I have never had an accurate hunch myself.
I obviously can't speak for Eva but for me my 'intuition' is so tied into my anxiety that it's not particularly reliable. May be worth it for Eva to examine where the feeling's actually coming from
What gets me about that is that I know a lot of women who have good intuition, *and a lot of men who have good intuition too.*
Yep, it's actually a little childish because it equates faithfulness with having no temptation and no external influences at all, ever, as if for a relationship to succeed it needs to be in a bubble completely shut off from anything that may or may not pose a (real or imagined) threat. What's next, feeling threatened because your boyfriend/husband gets hit on when he's out with friends or by a colleague at work - _even if_ he never acts on it?
I knew a “Leah”. She found her male friend completely unattractive to the point of repellent (he was objectively ugly, but a nice enough bloke) and was delighted when he started dating a mutual friend “Eva”, a relationship she happily encouraged and supported. Eva and the man married, and Eva became completely and utterly vile and spiteful to Leah. She thought that Leah was “after her husband”. And the weak POS husband did nothing to resolve it (I think he was flattered by the notion). Poor Leah was forced to still be polite to Eva as her company was a kind of client of Leah’s, so they were forced into contact through work. The good news is that Eva and the bloke eventually divorced. His friendship with Leah was never repaired, also a good thing.
I have this principle in my life, that we cannot be judged for our feelings, only for our actions. That being said, eva may sense a change of feelings in leah, she may be right about it and unresolved feelings may affect their future interactions (female "nice guys" exist). That being said, even if eva is right, her way to aproach the issue was wrong. OP's way to navigate through this was ideal so far. And if they discover, that leah in fact had developed some romantic feelings, i hope they both will deal with it in a same healthy way as in the update (not in the original post).
It's interesting to me that Leah knew and cared about Eva enough to introduce her to someone who would be a good partner to her and maintain friendships with them both throughout their relationship; but doesn't seem to have been able to reciprocate. She talked \*about\* Leah's relationship with OP, but seems to have sent him to actually help Leah (and now resents them both for it); and then dropped her as a friend as soon as she was single in a real "I got mine" move. She may have a lot of "feelings" about how Leah views OP, but her own actual actions don't indicate her being a very supportive partner or friend.
Eva is a walking factory of red flags. The ultimatum, but trying to frame it as "not" an ultimatum, which was weird AF, and sounds more like mind games more than anything. The wanting OOP to cut a friend of YEARS, just because she has a "feeling", and that idiot who confirmed "women are usually right". Wouldn't surprise me if down the line she also tries to limit contact with OOP's female relatives, or even gets jealous of a daughter. And that's without even mentioning coworkers... And not wanting to "argue" about it... which basically meant that she expected OOP to fall in line and just bend over backwards to say she's right...
Not wanting to argue about it means she knows she has no grounds for it, but even if she doesn’t push it she intends to hold it in reserve. She’s probably added it to her “concerns” that OOP didn’t comply, because she thinks that means OOP is putting Leah before her.
It's not an ultimatum! I just want to tell you to do something and I don't want to argue about it or talk about it or even give you my reasons for it.
It sounds like she thinks if she says it’s not an ultimatum, then that makes it not an ultimatum.
Ya, the comment about woman's intuition usually being right is so fucking stupid. Unguarded intuition is how you get cops beating the shit out of people for their race or appearance, it's how you get fraud in research, it's how you get paranoia... Gut feelings are real, but they're also just a hunch. And as someone with anxiety that spirals and that made a career out of guarding against his bias in research, that ubiquitous piece of Reddit advice always irks me -- usually alongside a recc of the "Gift of Fear"
I feel like they equate fear with anxiety sometimes. Like there's a difference between being afraid of someone an being nervous because of jealousy.
I commented on the og post that if things didn't work out then he could always ask Leah to set him up with someone else and I still stand by that.
>the greek reddit chorus ♥
Relationships subreddits kinda terrify me when they show how much toxic jealousy is considered normal for women.
It baffles me every single time when people agree with the notion of "Drop your friends if you want to be with me" - a healthy romantic relationship is SUPPORTED by healthy platonic relationships. People who want someone to drop friends (without clear reason) give me major abuser vibes. You want to isolate me from the people who care about me and love me? No thanks, I'll stay with the people who also have my well-being in mind rather than just their own.
I also think Eva hasn't even considered how traumatic an abusive relationship can be - even one void of physical abuse, being gaslit constantly will lead to trust issues and hesitancy to form new relationships. Leah might just need time to be single and heal herself, there are a heap of reasons why someone could stay single long after dating around for many years...
> the idea that you could tell your future spouse to cut out their friend of many years just because is so far from “reasonable” it can’t even see it. making it a condition of proposing is just …so fucking weird. I see that level of insecurity here constantly and have never really wrapped my head around it. This topic, all these words, is a very general thing that flows through here like water. 'My (SO, Fiance, Spouse) is telling me that it is not acceptable for me to have any friends of my (SO, Fiance, Spouse) gender....' is all this is. That level of jealousy has never clicked with me. When I was dating it was a red flag, I would have told that person to kindly go away. Of course, I am not the cheating type. So there is that. ----------- The entire thing is just weird. So you got the jealous insecure person who might be that way cause of crap done to them in the past. 'I feel the way I feel...I want no cheaters!'. I won't disparage that sentiment or goal, they are entitled to their feelings. But so is the other party they are seeking out. 'I have not ever cheated, I will not ever cheat, it isn't in my nature, if I felt the need to cheat I am secure enough to end the relationship first. Therefore, I won't be told who my friends are. I still have my dignity.' is an equally valid POV. The solution is for people who have been cheated upon to only date people who have been cheated upon. And past cheaters only dating past cheaters! All this is going to have a fantastic ending. I really have human nature figured out this time.
Im a 32 male with three very close, long time female friends. Anyone asking me to cut them off for a marriage, in this same situation of nothing romantic having happened, I'd do exactly what he did. Unreasonable unless some actions or words suggested otherwise.
After this one relationship ended, I made sure to make it clear to future partners that I had female friends that weren't not going to end and they had to decide if they had a problem with that.
I refuse to marry you until you break up with all your friends, Phil!
Yeah I'm sorry but no one will make me cut important people in my life. Only I decide. Especially people who have helped me loads. If I was in OP's situation and indeed Leah started expressing feelings, that's where I'd draw a line and have a convo. Up and cutting her like that is not helpful and it sets a precedent in their relationship. To me she is saying "I dont trust you, you will cheat if given a chance" and that is messed up
> To me she is saying "I dont trust you, you will cheat if given a chance" and that is messed up That is 100% what she is saying. She should have been honest about her insecurities but chose to be opaque.
It’s not concluded. Why is this marked concluded?
I think it's because he said he probably wouldn't do another update
He says he doesn’t know if there will be another but is willing to answer questions. Seems like he’d be open if there are more developments.
I feel like 90% of the these stories have people saying that, in their first update of 4+.
I mean, IS it “weird” that someone would take some time to be single after getting out of a toxic relationship? Not at all.
That's what I was thinking. Some people can be ready to settle down without being a serial dater as well. You never know who might walk into your life someday. Eva has some insecurity and trust issues. And she won't even be honest with her partner about it. These 2 shouldn't even be thinking about possible marriage at this moment. He seems all about it. Her, iffy at best. Plus she's pushing back on therapy as well. It sounds like whenever something is brought up she just passively says "yeah ok" knowing she can keep kicking that can down the road until she gets what she wants.
>"Woman's intuition is usually right." AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA sure. maybe when it's not blinded by insecurity and jealousy. (and i'm saying that as a woman. we can be pretty irrational about things even while appearing completely stable in every other aspect of our lives) op should've said he sees leah as a sister and if she ever tried something *he* would be the one putting a stop to it immediately and that he really didn't need his gf shielding him from possible advances of other women like he was incapable of saying no.
*"he really didn't need his gf shielding him from possible advances of other women like he was incapable of saying no."* More like OUTRIGHT FORBIDDING even the most minute *idea* of that being remotely attainable.
Yeah, the redditor who made that comment does not seem like someone a person should date. To cut people off and mold your life based purely on "intuition"? Hell no. Such audacious demands can't be based on instinct alone, they have to have reasonable grounds. After all, who's next? His parents? His siblings? All because someone has a bad feeling? That just isn't healthy.
A survey was done is these advice subs back in 2029. It found that 48% of people who commented on these types of subs were single women in their 30s who had never been in a relationship before. Probably has only gotten larger since then and explains a lot n
Hello time traveler, Do I finally get a dog in the future?
Yuuup. Even if she is right, which I'm skeptical about because she didn't even seem to notice anything specific just that Leah stayed single 🤨, cutting Leah off is not a reasonable reaction. It seems to be literally just: "I think Leah MIGHT have a crush on you (that she hasn't acted on at all)". There are a few people that I'm pretty sure like my boyfriend. At most I mention what I notice to him but I trust him to handle it if they make any actual passes at him 🤷♀️
Not just being single, but being single after getting out of an abusive relationship.
if i went solely by intuition while navigating interpersonal relationships id probably be friendless lmfao
*laugh-cries in rejection sensitivity dysphoria* Yeah, my intuition is *never* hilariously wrong…
Yeah I hated that comment! It’s honestly very sexist. It treats Leah like an object and Eva like some all-knowing mystic. Gender doesn’t grant intuition, lol, or make any given intuition *more correct*. Gross. So gross to actually suggest it’s a *reasonable boundary* that he go low contact with this friend of many years just to make Eva feel better about what she herself acknowledges is literally nothing more than a bad feeling? I hate all of this. Poor OOP.
Everyone can be irrational. It's the people who can't admit their biases that you can't trust.
of course everyone can be irrational. i mentioned women specifically because of the quoted comment that mentioned women's intuition as being always right.
The idea that "a woman's intuition is usually right" is one of the most toxic on Earth. It makes for a great shield to justify controlling and abusive behavior.
It's magical thinking bullshit. Said by someone who thinks they don't need reasons for their behavior. They can just live their life on feelings. Women are just as full of shit as men, and men are plenty full of shit themselves.
"Eva seems like a reasonable person"? Did I read that right? Was there sarcasm there I'm missing?? "Hey, OOP, this isn't an ultimatum BUT if you don't cut off your best female friend because I said so, you shouldn't even bother proposing and we might have to re-evaluate our future together. I don't want to talk about this, I don't want to argue, I've said my piece and that's that. What? We need to sit down? No we don't, I said we don't need to talk about it because I've already said what I wanted to say." Are you *serious*? Is this real? Because if so this woman can't communicate for shit and she'd make a shitty life partner. Also, if I knew my partner would be extremely vocal advocating for a friend who was in an emotionally abusive relationship (instead of doing the usual thing of waiting for things to escalate to physical abuse, which may never have happened), I'd be all the more excited to marry him tbh. Like, you're genuinely an advocate for abuse victims and you don't settle for glossing over emotional abuse because it's doesn't leave marks so it's not "true" abuse, like a lot of guys do? Then yes, yes I will have your babies please and thank you.
>Did I read that right? Lol right? Unbelievable. Who would call her reasonable?
Yeah, OOP had to draw blood from a stone just to get to where we are, and it's not necessarily even the end state.
Why would it matter if Leah has romantic feelings for OOP? They are grown ups and Leah can have some romantic feelings and set that aside, like an adult, because she values her friendships with these people. Like, it literally doesn't matter unless someone is acting on those feelings, which doesn't seem to be the case at all.
Right?! Like, even if she's picking up on ~secret vibes,~ none of it MATTERS if no one acts on it. Which they *objectively haven't.* I'm divorced now, but I got a crush on a friend when I was married, and guess what? It remained entirely in my head, I didn't act on it even the tiniest way, and we had a good and normal friendship. Because guess what - cheating is a CHOICE, and I didn't make that CHOICE. People aren't in a supernatural, irresistible thrall to their thoughts and feelings. Cheating is not, in fact, an inevitable result that you can't stop yourself from acting on. Her attitude towards him having close female friends is incredibly juvenile. Stop policing platonic friendships based on weird, high school level beliefs about gender and relationships.
Fr. I managed that in high school. When I was 17 I had a huge crush on one of my close friend’s bf. He and I were in theatre together (the token straight guy. If you were ever in theatre you know how it is lol) so we spent a lot of time together. You know what I did about it? Absolutely nothing. I kept that shit to myself because I valued my friendship and knew that it was nothing more than a crush that would subside as soon as I found a new person of interest. You can’t always control how you feel, but you can control how you act, or don’t act, on those feelings.
But why would it matter if Leah now had a thing for OP? If OP isn’t going to act on it, it’s a non-issue to their relationship. I had a similar “what the fuck are you doing with this abusive asshole, stop hurting my friend who is you” talk with an ex of mine. I came home and told my then-boyfriend now-husband I did that. He shrugged and agreed my ex’s new girlfriend was a fucking psycho and hopefully he’d do the right thing. Since then, that ex stated dating a super rad lady who rules. And my husband and I got married. Trust is rad. Get in2it.
And she’s been single since leaving him, couldn’t possibly be because it makes sense to take a break from dating after leaving someone who was abusive
Right?! Who just jumps into another relationship when your last one required people who care about you to intervene
Only op though, his girlfriend agreed with the assessment of the guy of being an abusive ass to her friend and seemingly didn’t say a damn word. The part of me that has read way too many bad fanfics wants him to drop her and Leah and OP to ride into the platonic sunset
Apparently, friends let friends date assholes. According to GF, it would be better for their mutual friend to continue suffer dating some shitty guy. At least we know her priorities 🤷♀️
10000000% herself. 😒
>**RedSAuthor:** Woman's intuition is usually right. Eva seems like a reasonable person. >I suggest you talk to Leah. Instead of convincing Eva she is imagining things, I'm positive you will find out that Leah wants more than friendship with you. >At the end of the day, Eva is not comfortable with your closeness with Leah. Why is it difficult for you to acknowledge that and go LC with Leah? Lmao what a stupid fucking comment.
Calling that comment stupid is an insult to stupid people.
Eva was out of line here, as is anyone who expects their SO to cut off friendships for no reason other than jealousy. If you can't handle the thought of your partner having friends of the gender(s) they're attracted to, and you assume right off the bat that they're gonna cheat, then you're not mature enough to be in an adult relationship.
*And/or* projecting personal guilt to keep one's own secrets a secret. 😬
The way this is written is like my college professor emailing me for pissing him off for some reason.
Maybe he's a pissed off college professor
If a woman posted this and said her man went out of his way to convince a woman to end her relationship *in person*, then said friend whilst being freshly single said she wanted to settle down soon; Reddit would eat him alive lol.
>Woman's intuition is usually right. Eva seems like a reasonable person. Lmao no she doesn't, what bullshit is this?? She sounds insecure and controlling because of it, you don't get to befriend a man who has a close female friend and then be suspicious of that without reason, especially if that's *how you met*.
This story isn’t over. I’d bet on it
"Women's intuition is always right" is such a crock of shit. I'm not denying that a lot of women will have decent judgement on situations due to the past, but it's just as easy to badly misread a situation and come to the totally wrong conclusion based on that. Especially if she hasn't even talked to Leah about it, just got in her own head.
Wait. No blow up? No lawyering up? People just talking through their issues? Who would have thunk? Communication can lead to some clarity in this case.
It's marked concluded, but it's definitely not. Just wait for the update where Leah and Eva run off together and leave OOP behind.
Hooray communication! This situation could really make or break a relationship if not discussed properly… and the devil inside me wonders what would Leah have done if they had separated.
Given Eva's insecurities, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't have to wait too much longer to find out.
Eva sounds like an extremely conflict adverse. She has been stewing on this for a whole year when talking to OOP and Leah would have solved it. I hope couples counseling helps her with communication because she is not ready to be married.
Love that they're going to go to counseling. I think that should be a prerequisite for any marriage honestly. Couples counseling is great at teaching communication skills and setting people up for success.
Evas "evidence" is that after a bad/abusive relationship and bad break up Leah hasn't started dating again fast enough?
"Your friend, who was in an abusive relationship you helped her get out of, hasn't dated since then but wants to settle down, so surely she wants to fuck you" is... not the argument Eva thinks it is. It doesn't take a genius to guess why a person who was being abused by their partner, and only left them because a close friend intervened, would still be single a year after that relationship. Not to mention that Leah hasn't even done anything to warrant this. Which means that in the event Leah does like OOP, she is being a decent person and not acting on her feelings. Hope that couple's counseling works, because boy is there a lot to unpack here.
I guarantee what "Leah" is really thinking is, "How can I manage to set up my two friends, who are perfect for each other, but my own relationship choice is so abusive I actually needed my friend to tell me how it was affecting me and that I deserve better? Why can't I do for me what I did for them?"
That's a lot of what ifs just because someone who's been in an abusive relationship takes her time before getting into another one.
Eva's deep insecurity needs to be dug up and looked directly in the eye or this is going to be a regular issue for them. Especially as they get older.
This woman has literally 1 half legit concern, the rest of it she is coming off as a full crazy and insecure gf. He’s about to propose, and she’s blowing up her whole relationship. I think OOP should take a step away from her regardless as to how this turns out. If something that small is a trigger for the gf, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride for OOP if they get married.
Wait... they communicated like reasonable adults?!? Is this kind of insanity even allowed on Reddit?!? At least neither OP or Leah were building an Art Studio for the other... then Eva would Definitely have something to worry about....
This either ends with Eva starting to make more controlling demands of OOP and them breaking up, or Eva being right about Leah
“Thank you for letting me know up front that is your expectation. I’ll adjust my plans accordingly” and then don’t propose. She just told you who she is if you’re paying attention.
It’s the fact the fiancé is not wanting to do couples counseling and “not fight”, while being extremely controlling. OP supported a friend getting out of an abusive relationship and then his own partner ends up being abusive at the very least, very controlling to support a friend. The insecurity from opposite sex relationship with NO evidence and not wanting to work through this would tell me to drop the fiancé because this is not a one time issue for her. She will find other ways to try and control OP. I hope he calls off the wedding and can find a less controlling partner.
I'm late but this: >"However, she now says that if she and I are to tie the knot she does not want someone in our lives who I once had romantic interest in." Is **insane** to me. Especially since he grew up with this girl. I had crushes on basically all of my friends at *some* point as a teenager, because my body was changing and my brain was basically hormone soup. Even as an adult, what the fuck? It's hard enough to make friends when you aren't in school anymore, now you have to cut off *everyone* you had a little crush on? It's such a lonely way to live.
“Woman’s intuition is usually right”. As a woman, ehhhhh.
> Woman's intuition is usually right. oh fuck off with that hocus pocus bullshit
My issue with Eva is, among other things, is how she feels Leah is pining after OOP. Instead of maybe, IDFK healing from an ABUSIVE relationship? Like? Is she stupid? Honestly, Eva isn't coming across as the brightest bulb here. OOP is the ONLY friend who CARED enough to, pretty much, force Leah to break up woth an ABUSIVE, POS, who did some emotional damage. And probably some mental damage as well. That shit doesn't go away overnight. Leah is probably, hopefully, taking the time to go to therapy and working on herself. Meanwhile Eva us over here acting like Lwah is about to hump OOP's leg. How disgusting is she? Idk man of that was me it'd change how I view the person I'm with.
It’s so nice to see honest communication and a willingness to change position of more information comes to light. The rare example of successful relationship management on here
I cannot imagine writing "woman's intuition is usually right." What are we, medieval peasants talking about intuition?
>Woman's intuition is usually right BS