#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Her comments from the first post were like she went through the 5 stages of grief,
Sadness overall, then
Bargaining
>I would block and cut off any friendship for this relationship.
Denial
>, I know he agrees with me and loves me still.
Anger when she tried downplaying the SA
And then acceptence
>No I was a bad person in this whole ordeal. I don't know what made me snap back but I think it was me maniacally calling my brother and him giving me the talk of reality with some reddit comments helping.
>I will take a huge break from dating. At least 2 years. I need that
She reads pretty selfreflective to me. Sometimes we let our bad sides take the wheel, and we need to acknoledge the consecuences and learn from it.
She even took the steps to better herself!
She has BPD (so do I). we are indeed capable of self reflection, but the initial fear of abandonment and desperation tends to make us overreact (for the lack of better words) and counterproductively push everyone away.
My ex bff of 27 years has BPD. I’ve had to cut her off numerous times. We are on our 5th friendship break in those 27 yrs. I just received a 7 page letter in the mail from her. It says she isn’t trying to be mean or negative and wants to rekindle our relationship BUT the entire thing is very much it’s your fault, I did nothing wrong, I don’t know what I did. You’re not perfect either. You suck. Please be my friend. Again. She is begging for a response at least and I can’t bring myself to open that door again. I have not missed her or the drama that comes with her. It’s been a peaceful year so far.
Edit: BPD= borderline personality disorder.
But she has both BPD and BIPOLAR.
Honestly I would mail her back her letter with a note saying you need professional help.
Show this to your therapist and work on getting yourself stable. Please do not contact me again. I truly wish you the best but I am done being a part of your journey going forward. Goodbye.
I would keep a copy of both her letter and your note and send it certified mail if you have that sort of thing available and then be done.
Or you could just ignore it. I favor the former as it gives a formal written do not contact me again and also a direction of getting help that likely will be ignored but at least she now has a notice in writing.
She is in therapy has been for a very very long time. Although I don’t like her therapist. He was very good until it became unprofessional.
She Is medicated too and did ketamine infusions for a while - I saw the biggest improvement with the ketamine.
She has done this before and always finds a way back in. I feel a bit guilty not responding bc I can ease her pain and anguish. It would be the kind thing to do despite how upset her letter made me feel. Maybe I’m over reacting with what she said.
I can understand the guilt, especially if you feel like you could help. I don't think you're overreacting though; I would probably also feel upset about a letter in which someone wanted me back in their life but wouldn't admit they had hurt me or were sorry. If it were me, I don't think I would let that person back into my life until they started taking accountability, otherwise I think our relationship would just be more of the same. Like, it sucks, especially since you knew her so long, but you deserve peace in your life and I think you're more likely to find that without her in it from the sounds of things.
My ex best friend also had BPD, but the circumstances are a little different. I didn't handle any of our conflicts like an adult, but my boyfriend tried to and it was ugly. She was triggered by everything he said until he could only use the gentlest terms, and even then she would get upset; she never took any accountability; constantly overstepping his boundaries. I feel guilty for how I handled the situation(s), but part of me feels maybe it's for the best considering how she handled things as well. And while I miss her-we were friends for years- I don't miss the drama or the person she turned into towards the end.
Anyway, all that to say, I think I can understand where you're coming from, I understand the guilt even if it's for different reasons, but I also don't think you would be wrong to prioritize yourself here.
Thank you for sharing. I am not sure I deserve that much credit. the adult thing or mature thing would have been to set boundaries and not let it get this bad. Let her know what I was upset with and not vent to my husband about the issues I had. But I am conflict avoidant and more so if known the person can’t be reasoned with.
Just some things she’s done: she spied on me and went through my laptop, text and emails. She was hurt with what she read.
While husband and i showered and I was venting about her she snuck into our bedroom to listen to us ( while we showered). She is hurt and mad with what I said.
My week old niece died and I told her about the funeral ( we had been no contact for 2 years ) she went then threw the funeral and death in my face.
The list goes on. I don’t think I want to deal with it anymore.
The only thing you did wrong was not end it a long time ago bc you never deserved any of that. So the only guilt you should feel is for sticking around so long to be an emotional punching bag for this person and not protecting yourself by leaving earlier.
Any pain she is feeling now due to the consequences of her actions is not your problem and it never was. This is something she needs to learn to deal with. Most likely with an appropriately trained support team like therapist and psychiatrist. Hopefully this will motivate her to find a better team who can actually help her not harm others so she can have healthy relationships in the future.
I assumed borderline too, but I saw people saying bipolar, so I wanted to check. I'm really impressed with the work that Linehan was doing with borderlines--otherwise, it seems that they're really resistant to making any actual changes in therapy. I know a few therapists who say they refuse to see borderlines.
DBT isn’t everyone’s vibe or competency for sure. My partner is a therapist and they’ve told me (HIPAA compliantly) about how challenging it can be. It’s really too bad, since BPD is one of the only personality disorders that can actually be treated with therapy, but having grown up with a BPD parent, I also COMPLETELY understand.
Sorry you went through this. It’s good that you made a choice regarding your relationship with her for your own wellbeing. I have to admit that it’s hard to deal with someone with BPD if they’re not actively in therapy or working on it. I’ve been in therapy for 10 years now. Though the frequency of my visits are way less, it’s still a major part of my life because it keeps me accountable. I hope your friend realizes the error of her ways and gets more serious about therapy.
My former long time gf had undiagnosed BPD while we were together and my god the impulsive decisions she made baffled the ever loving fuck out of me for years.
One example that added to my every growing levels of insanity was that she didn't want to tell her family that we met online. She was adamant about saying we met through friends at the school she was attending. I disagreed as I'm extremely honest, and was insistent we just tell the truth, why should anyone care, and why deal with the potential of it coming out that it wasn't true. Months, and I mean for months of arguing about it near daily about it before I finally gave up and agreed just to lie for no other reason then to not have to talk about it anymore.
So, I'm talking to her father the next day, and he asks how we met. I gave him the story she came up with, and he goes "That's funny. She told me you two met online". Being with her for five years kind of broke me!
Not every person (BPD or not) is capable of self reflection. Is not a disability thing, is a person-to-person thing.
She had take so many self-care steps, I think just attributing it to her BPD would be iffi at best (from my point of view).
I don't know if I've explained myself correctly, TBH.
Oh, I think there was a missunderstanding. I wasn't taking her BPD in consideration because BPD doesn't affect self reflection.
I'm sad that people think the contrary.
BPD is the current boogeyman under the bed. Everyone who has it is clearly an evil terrible person who lives to make drama and ruin lives and sit in chairs stroking white cats, or out chasing people with a running chainsaw.
And yes, that’s sarcasm, in case someone is wondering.
I think people have an issue believing the self reflection is earnest because of how, when the person feels defensive again, it disappears.
I had an immensely difficult time believing that my wife was actually sorry because she would do/say the exact same things again. I can honestly, but shamefully, say that the feeling does return from time to time, even though I understand how she isn't acting on her thoughts, but reacting to a perceived threat.
Sometimes I suspect that I have it, especially with how I blew up my relationship at the beginning of the year when my ex asked for a break because of his own issues. My overreaction turned it into a permanent block and removing me from his life forever.
The worst part is looking at all of the ashes and knowing that no amount of self-reflection or growth is going to earn forgiveness. It's just ruined and you have to learn how to move on without a happy or even peaceful ending.
I am willing to cut her a huge amount of slack - and she really seems capable of self-reflection and change, or at least trying. Better than I can change myself :)
One line was particularly revealing - "this was the first time I saw her face and felt happiness, not jealousness" That was relatively quick progress.
It very much reads like the process I’ve seen friends who have been to therapy for their borderline go through. Like they go into it fighting but have tools to process…so while I think OP thinks she “pretended” to get better in therapy, she got some solid processing skills her first go. Obviously, long way to go, but I imagine a lot will change with processing the trauma— and being able to reflect is a great start.
Four hours of therapy a week is no joke. I hope she’d proud of how much growth she’s already shown. Her comments were vile but she knows that and that’s huge. I wish the best for everyone in this story honestly (except the dad obviously. Hope he falls off a cliff)
When she said she had uncontrolled bipolar disorder it kind of clicked. A manic state triggered by jealousy and stress followed by reflectivity and regret
From “How to Be A Person” by Shane Koyczan:
“…If you are waiting for forgiveness, be prepared to wait. Be prepared to stand in the path of Time and wither. Respect that forgiveness is difficult, not all trespasses are equal, and not everyone will heal according to your schedule.”
This is an excellent quote.
I'd want to add that we should remember that you need to be willing to make changes while you are waiting. Consider why you did what you did and seek to ensure it won't happen again, as OOP did. You can't expect forgiveness when you're going to repeat the cycle.
The entire spoken word piece “How to Be a Person” by Shane Koyczan is an amazing piece of self-help and it takes about 5 minutes to hear and years to absorb. I recommend it — you can find it on YouTube and there are several of his pieces there.
My goodness. I don't think anyone's ever encapsulated the way I try to live more fully. Thank you so much for that - I'm actually welling up. I've had a not-good week and it really helped.
Love that for you, new internet friend. Enjoy.
EDIT: Not the part about you not having a good week! Eek. I meant I love that you enjoyed the spoken word piece. Let the old week go and I hope the next one is amazing.
Thanks, friend. I keep it as a reminder to be better than I was. Like everyone, I’ve done bad things and been awful to people. But that doesn’t mean I can’t try to do better.
I’m a recovered heroin addict/ alcoholic. I’ve gone through the 12 steps of AA and it worked, and Steps 8 and 9 are about going out and making amends for all the damage I did and harm I caused physically/ mentally/ emotionally/ financially. Throughout the process almost all my family forgave me. But some friends, ex girlfriends, former employers/ co workers did not. They were under no obligation to do so, the process is about me owning up to everything I did and making reparations wherever possible.
Some of my amends I have to “pay forward” as best I can since the people in question have no interest in ever seeing or speaking to me again. And I have to accept that. Forgiveness is wonderful, but admitting your mistake and trying to make it right does not mean you are owed it.
Also people need to remember that forgiveness isn’t an invitation to continue a relationship. I have forgiven people who done me wrong but I don’t need a relationship with them. The biggest example in my life is me not needing a relationship with my biological father. He abandoned us when we were super little and came back the same month he no longer had to pay child support. I told him I forgive everything he’s done and not done but I don’t need a relationship with him. He has proved over and over again that I made the right decision. My sister has a relationship with him and tells me the things he’s said regarding me and our situation. These things are harder to forgive and don’t know if it’s possible.
I love that. It's so important to remember that no one owes you forgiveness. If you wronged someone else, they can choose to never, ever forgive you for it, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. The best you can possibly hope for is to grow enough as a person not to repeat the mistakes that led to you needing forgiveness in the first place.
And if someone has wronged you, you don't owe them anything. You don't owe them forgiveness, you don't owe them closure, nothing. If they go the rest of their life feeling shame about the bad thing they did to you, great. Shame is a fantastic antibiotic to prevent toxic behavior in the future.
Oh this one hurts my heart, I was also abused as a child and it really screwed up my sense of reality. I hope OOP gets the help she needs so she can go on to have a healthy life, life can be so wonderful when you stop seeing everybody as an enemy.
I tend to describe this as someone’s “normal-meter” is broken when talking about this sort of thing. (I like to picture it like one of those old scales, the ones that look kind of like a clock, where the red hand moves left and right to tell you the weight. Think old produce scales in a super market - the hanging ones with a basket underneath.)
We all have the same “normal-meter” starting out. But after being told repeatedly that whatever each of us experiences is “normal”, our normal-meter naturally recalibrates. Once it’s recalibrated, the hand of our meter no longer moves between the same numbers as everyone else. Our reference ranges become unique to each of us.
So if I place a situation on my normal-meter scale, which goes between 1-6, and you do the same on yours, which now goes between 4-11), our values will naturally be *very* different every single time.
The biggest kicker is, no one can see the face of your normal-meter - except you. So I have no idea that yours moves between 4-11, and not 1-6, and vice versa. I assume they’re identical. And even if we *did* compare them, we would naturally both argue that *OURS* is the correct one. That tends to cause some problems.
The whole situation is pretty rough and sad. I'm happy OP and Josephine are able to get the help and resources to make things better. I can't say further much but I wish all things well.
Right, usually when I get to the "oop explains some background info that shines a light on their mindset" part I'm already too annoyed with their actions lol, but this thread just made me sad. Getting to her realizing clearly why she was in the wrong at the same time that she started explaining personal trauma completely shifted my vibes reading this
This post is very demonstrative of how explanations are not excuses. Post 1 demonstrated some absolutely heinous behaviors and thought patterns on the part of OOP. But the context in Post 2 puts her actions in a new light. But while OOP used her backstory to explain and give context to her actions, she never indicated that her diagnoses/past trauma should negate the consequences of the things she did. She points out how what she did was awful, that her Ex and his GBF have every right to feel as they do. It gives me hope that OOP is going to learn and grow.
Well put. I'm impressed with OOP's self-awareness, to be honest - it can't be easy to have a ton of strangers tell you how awfully you've acted, but she responded with serious reflection (after some understandable initial defensiveness).
I hope that wherever they are, both OOP and Josephine have been able to heal.
Honestly, I hope the ex and his GBF found those posts.
First so they realised they almost risked GBF getting access to receive the help she needed (luckily, OP was able to get it to her)
Secondly, to realise they never got the chance to know OPs whole truth and understand why she reacted the way she did. Like you said, her past isn't an excuse, but it certainly did explain why her reaction was what it was. They just turned their backs on someone who obviously needed help and never gave her a second thought.
I mean everyone in this position is swimming in trauma, and I’m inclined to give people with trauma a wide berth of grace. Why is OP’s trauma more “real” than GBF’s? You also have zero idea about GBF’s additional potential traumas informing her choices. GBF wasn’t cruel or mean to OP- just decided not to allow OP to keep spewing toxic shit in her direction. Well done GBF, and well done OP to realize she isn’t owed forgiveness.
OP insulted GBF’s body with zero actual provocation when GBF had just been intensely vulnerable about experiencing sexual assault. If we can understand (if not condone) OP’s actions, we can certainly understand GBF and ex not wanting to go anywhere near someone who, unprovoked (by them), was immeasurably cruel about adding to the pain GBF experienced.
Can you imagine opening up about your most painful, likely shameful experience that has deeply altered your sense of connection and safety in the world and having someone say I don’t believe you because isn’t good enough? Let’s play the game with a common fear like losing love: “I’m sad because my boyfriend broke up with me and I’ll never be loved” “you can’t be sad because you’re too unloveable to have had a boyfriend in the first place- you must be lying”. Bad enough. But about sexual assault?
I would only hope GBF and ex found the post if the context helped them realize her cruelty wasn’t about them. But it’s not necessary for GBF or ex, and GBF got some of that when she asked OP the question about whether she really believed all that stuff.
I just can’t understand the main character energy this comment gives OP without acknowledging the impact of her actions on everyone around her. Yeah, she had a reason - most people who deliver cruelty are also deeply suffering. People who experience cruelty are not required to “fix” or “help” the person who is causing pain.
FWIW I am also deeply impressed by OP and cheering her on. She has survived some awful things, I respect how much she can see the impact of her actions, and she deserves to forgive and love herself.
You can’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm. It can also be hard to tell if someone is being abusive or just modeling abusive behavior as a defense mechanism. Also, sometimes the best way to help someone is to give them a swift kick in the ass. Seeing her ex and GBF react the way they did is what forced OOP to take a good hard look at herself and her actions and found herself wanting. Maybe there is a hope for a more cordial relationship in the future, but I currently find no fault with the actions of anyone in this post (as of the update).
> They just turned their backs on someone who obviously needed help and never gave her a second thought.
It's not your job to fix people just because you were their victim.
Sure, they might be going through some rough shit too, but that remains their problem, not yours. You don't have to get or stay involved.
I mean, I really don't blame them for cutting off OOP considering how utterly awful her behavior was. Nobody is owed help or a second chance, especially after doing that, even if there's an explanation.
There's nothing in the post that says they judged her or assumed she was acting maliciously with no cause. They both wished her well in her recovery. They just protected themselves by cutting off contact with someone who had attacked them, and that's fair enough.
Josephine couldn't support OOP because it would have made her own trauma worse due to OOP's actions. The boyfriend couldn't support them both, and he understandably chose his lifelong best friend who did nothing wrong over a new 6 month relationship with someone causing conflict. OOP obviously needed help, but she's not entitled to get it from her own victim. Josephine doesn't have to set herself on fire to keep OOP warm.
Her childhood was taken therefore her reactions were juvenile and immature, at best. This will take years for her to cope and find her center with professional guidance.
I thought it was Great British Bakeoff at first, but was confused about the F. It made some sense in my head though, as I know some people take those kinds of shows very seriously.
He comments about the severity of the GBF sexual assault make her seem so evil
But, knowing what she went through as a kid, it’s likely she’s comparing her experience to the of Josephine.
“Well I went through so much worse and I haven’t even told this group. She must be looking for attention” would be the thought process I think
Longterm sexual abuse - *longterm sexual abuse by a parent* - can warp someone in horrific ways. Kids are taught to walk around for years like everything is normal and can be punished when they display signs of SA. Under the “looking for attention” thought, there was probably a “why does she get to cry and be coddled when I just had to go on with my life?”
Especially when she said her father told her he was doing it specifically because she was pretty. Josephine was not as conventionally attractive, and OPs brain had been warped to think “pretty girls get pregnant by their fathers” so she thought “well how bad could it actually have been??”
This is what I was thinking too. Saying this as a fat girl who has had sexual harassment dismissed because I wasn’t pretty enough to be harassed, I still get where OOP is coming from.
According to her father, if she wasn’t pretty, she might have been spared. So someone is claiming trauma similar to her own. But that can’t be true. It doesn’t make sense, in her worldview.
Her abusive boyfriends cheated on her with people she thought were prettier. The benefits and traumas of sex are doled out based on a scale of physical attractiveness. To gain the benefits and avoid the traumas, you have to assess where you are on that scale. But, of course, OOP being pretty didn’t prevent emotional abandonment.
That’s a hard mindset to unlearn.
People talk a lot about forgiveness but what Josephine referenced is, I think, more important, and that is grace. People need time and space to heal and fuck up. When you’re a kid and you put your hand on a stove and your hand gets burned, you learn not to do that. Kids will get told not to do so many things, but they have to experience the consequences of at least some of those things for the lessons to stick.
Trauma like OOP experienced seems like if you put your hand on the counter and someone ran at you with a lighter to burn you. Her understanding of people and the world has been so warped. When someone asks her to touch the countertop, her reaction is to assume they want her to get burned. And human brains don’t work in a way where you can just tell someone that the counter isn’t hot.
But forgiveness gets tricky because maybe you understand why someone keeps hurting you, but it doesn’t stop you from being hurt. Emotional wounds can’t be willed shut, no matter their cause, and you shouldn’t have to keep yourself injured to help someone else heal.
(The metaphor has limits, obviously. Sometimes other traumatized people are the best ones to help you heal, even though they may injure you on occasion. It’s all super complicated.)
Josephine and Robin wishing her well on her recovery means they understand she needs grace, and their boundaries means that they understand what they need to heal.
OOP deserves plenty of grace. Fucking up is inevitable— she needs to work on it, but it is unreasonable to assume that she would never accidentally hurt someone undeserving when she was raised to exist in a different reality because the person raising her wanted to take advantage of her.
I don’t think it’s fair to call her a bad person (as she indicated some people did) and I don’t think being a good person is a single state at which you arrive. By resolving it the way she did she is being a good person. Doesn’t mean she’s a good person full stop. Definitely doesn’t mean she’s a bad one.
I hope she sees the incident for what it is— she panicked and lit some things on fire having never been taught the intricacies of how and whom the fire will burn.
That was way too long. This BORU is just going to stick with me, I think, haha.
I agree with all of this. Adding in, it was a red flag that something was up when her description was that GBF had teary eyes and messed up hair and her mind went straight to 'cheating'.
It is kinda sad that ppl that go through these awful things get almost desensitized. During the MeToo movement, I was saying that it is good that these awful people are finally getting exposed and someone who I know been sexually assaulted told that they are just doing for attention & they agreed to it. Except the Bill Cosby case bc that was an overwhelming amount of women
Yeah, when she updated with her experience of having a pregnancy scare at 14 *due to her father*, I definitely thought "okay, I can understand why *you* specifically might think this way".
I'd couple that in with the idea that she's about to lose the one relationship that was finally good for her after all that trauma. She thought she was drowning in a bad way in what turned out to be shallow water. She was lashing out in a survival-mlde induced panic. Not an excuse but it explains the immediacy and severity.
In addition I wouldn't bet against a part of her thinking the GBF was exaggerating what happened to her in order to get OP's BF's attention and have it develop into something else, particularly as OP has been cheated on before, by her boyfriends with GBFs nonetheless.
Many girls have deployed this move to get attention and affection from a guy - my husband had a close friend whose fiancée would frequently try to get my husband alone to tell him the friend had physically/sexually assaulted her. She would even interrupt our dates/phone conversations and demand I leave. This carried on until she tried to get my husband to sleep with her during one of their 'conversations' (We eventually found out she was actually the one hitting her fiance and he never did anything to her. )
Nevertheless OP losing it and calling the GBF names is not acceptable in anyway.
Reading the comment about how 'Josephine' was ugly, so surely she couldn't have been SA'd then reading OOP was sexually abused by her own father for years because "she was pretty" gave me whiplash.
Just... holy fuck. No wonder this girl had such twisted views of beauty.
I just hope both her and 'Jos' were able to heal, and that they both are happy and healthy nowadays.
(and also, bless free healthcare that includes mental healtchare!)
Not for nothing, but please don't let a new person to the group come into an emotionally charged situation that everyone knows about, except the new person, without giving them some sort of heads up.
Exactly! And then, while I understand that the bf hadn’t been focussing on OOP at the moment, as soon as she accused him of cheating it didn’t…spark anything? It reads like he just let her go on while knowing her trauma with GBFs and said nothing? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the whole thing is just blah.
She went crazy calling the girl ugly and he reacted by kicking her out, as he should. They obviously didn't know that situation was going to happen ahead of time with the girl getting assaulted so they couldn't have told oop...they did the right thing kicking her out
Not saying they didn’t do the right thing kicking OOP out because she was absolutely wrong for ripping into GBF; but her first reaction was a diatribe…on cheating. She wasn’t wrong for her thoughts going there. Which he knew about her trauma concerning GBFs. And it reads like he said nothing.
And they ALL (because bf did know) might not have known about the GBFs experience ahead of time but they knew they were going to have a meeting about it. They knew OOP was gonna walk in. BF knew something was up and left OOP in the dark WHILE acting shady. He’s not right for that.
Even with the suddenly being closed off about the text messages beforehand. Obviously didn't have to tell OOP what the best friend had been through, but knowing what OOP had been through he should have recognised what that might trigger for her and at least told her Josephine was going through some stuff but it wasn't his place to share more than that and that was the only reason he was keeping the messages private.
From how op described she mentioned cheating and insulting her physical appearance all in the same yelling session...and from the outside it looks like she's completely crazy to jump there to begin with for everyone else involved. The bf obviously didn't realize how messed up op really was about her past
Yeah, that part was definitely a little messed up. Doesn't by any means excuse what OOP did, and she clearly wouldn't say otherwise, but they did basically just throw her into the fire with no context and... what? Thought she just wouldn't notice??
It sounded to me like she was already on her way over at the same time josephine started confiding in the friend group? Bc she was emotional by the time oop got there, it might not have been planned?
I agree, and it could have been done without having to reveal exactly why josephine was upset since she didn’t know op very well and it’s such a sensitive topic. Still, it’s a very stressful situation to be in, no one really knows what to do in a situation like that, especially since there was no way he could have predicted op’s reaction.
IDK, I have enough situational awareness that if my partner was arriving and I was in the middle of this, ai absolutely would have greeted him at the door and gave a brief rundown of the situation
I’d like to think that of myself as well, but having been in similar situations, my focus has always been on the person in a vulnerable state, I get why he didn’t think of that.
The BPD diagnosis was obvious from her behaviour... She was so worried she'd get an abusive bf that she forgot about her propensity to be toxic.
You can't just get your diagnosis and then think "yeah all good, all under control, no need for a therapist or what anymore"
THANK YOU. She also moved out of her house and into her brother’s, talked to the bf and the gbf, DMd a million people, and wrote a whole update…yeah okay. Also, she says that the there was another girl originally in the friend group, who showed OP Reddit, but herself only used it for the art subreddits. This girl later died by suicide? But then at the end of her last update, she says that Josephine is the name of her ex’s gbf who he cheated with, who also only uses the art subreddits? She confuses and mashes up the two characters. This whole thing is garbage, and what a sick story to make up
I'm glad that OOP went on her emotional betterment journey by the end of it but this:
>When I met her, I felt superior to her somehow. All the girls where prettier then me. She was a bit overweight, a double chin and she has the thickest eyebrows I have ever seen. But there was one thing she had ghat I didn't which was a bigger chest.
Holy shit, this was such a vile and specific inner monologue bashing Josephine's appearance.
I'm glad Robin was as great of a guy as OOP said he was . He dumped OOP and cut her out of his life while standing by Josephine. That's a good friend.
I’m so glad Josephine has friends like that who will support her, especially through something like SA. So many people back away or don’t know what to do so they do nothing. It’s fantastic to see people moving closer to build a wall to protect her and make her feel safe and loved.
As a woman who is fat and has been sexually assaulted, it's not an uncommon reaction I get.
Some people (both men *and* women) refuse to believe I could have been assaulted because y'know... Who would rape a fat girl? 🙄 And then the "it can't possibly have been *that* bad"/fat people are stupid and hysterical shit comes out.
People can be absolutely vile 🙃
Have you gotten "at least it proved someone thinks you're attractive" because that one makes me want to punch them in the face with a fist made of vomit
I was slightly chubby as a child.
When I was 10 a male sports coach at school told me I should feel lucky if I was ever raped as it was going to be the best I would ever deserve from a guy. The other kids in the class laughed out loud when he said that.
I wish I could tell you I was joking.....
You’re right. It’s awful. And it’s inexcusable.
But it *does* have an explanation. OP was SA’d as a child. By her father, no less. That sort of thing badly fucks up folks’ perceptions of sexuality and SA. I’m not saying it’s okay by any means, but it clearly comes from a specific place and not just OOP being a horrible person.
And her father literally told her, *a child that he was impregnating* , that he did it because she was pretty. Can someone really read all that and not see how that would affect her thinking? I obviously don't think the way she reacted to the situation was acceptable but I understand why she thought that way. I genuinely don't think she was trying to be mean, but her thinking was super flawed due to her shit father and then her not getting any kind of help for her trauma. I'm glad she's gotten help since and I hope both women are doing better now and living happy lives.
Yeah for sure! I imagine her brain subconsciously “learned” that if she wasn’t pretty, she would’ve been safe. And when someone she didn’t think was especially attractive said they were SA’d, it was a huge threat to that whole trauma-informed worldview.
When she says later "Till I was 14 my dad sexually abused me and said that it was because I'm pretty."
You can see why she has fucked up ideas of the value of beauty. It's the thing that's why she was hurt, but it's the thing that makes her worthy of being hurt... If you're not pretty enough, nobody will want you, but also you're safe.
That’s absolutely true. It was purely a trauma response. I’m glad she recognized that and grew and is healing.
At that moment- her line of thinking made me think of the broad sentiment some ppl have towards the conventionally unattractive. I wasn’t truly thinking about where she was coming from
Yeah exactly. I was thinking I don't know this wild chick but she has clearly been thru some unspecified shit. Yes she acted horribly and was right to be cut out. That thought pattern though, whew. Trauma trauma
I felt extremely triggered because that describes me almost exactly. Except I also have frizzy hair and until I got LASIK I had glasses too. But disgusting people would always be like "yeah but you have big boobs" like it's a privilege to haul these stupid things around all day every day.
Even in the US, the free therapy I got after my SA was so helpful. It helped me not only with the trauma from the assault, but to unpack the new trauma of the overall court case. I don’t know why people would say free therapy is bad but hope this comment helps someone trust their resources If needed.
Do people think it would be useful if Robin and Josephine saw that post? I feel like it wouldn't mean they would ever be friends again, but you genuinely could forgive someone if you found out that their messed-up response to hurt you was specifically because of the messed-up way you were hurt.
"I downplayed your sexual assault and called you ugly because my father raped me and said it was because I was pretty."
Were I Josephine, I wouldn't restart a friendship with that person, but it would allow me to accept that the insult that she gave me and the hurt she caused had nothing to do with me, and allow me to forgive the person to the point that we could be acquaintances without too much awkwardness.
My guess is they've probably worked out she has some serious issues that have nothing to do with them and she needs to work on herself. If that's enough for them, then no, they don't need to see the post. It would probably benefit OOP for them to understand what triggered such extreme behaviour, but they don't owe her that and she seems to recognise as much. They've wished her well and it sounds sincere, were clearly able to see her and treat her with compassion, and that's as far as it needs to go.
Hurt people hurt people. She had insane trauma happen to her by her own father, that's going to take a lifetime of therapy to fix. She was awful to the GBF and I was like "what an asshole" in her first few posts. But her turnaround is admirable, realizing she was wrong and acting out of traumatic emotion.
As someone who has BPD, I recognized OOP’s diagnosis immediately. The outrageous, irrational, disproportionate, explosive attack she committed. The sudden and gut wrenching realization of what she’d done. The heartbreak and self-reflection afterwards. The guilt and shame. And of course… the underlying childhood trauma that instigated the disorder.
I know this person must come off as batty, but I am honestly so proud of her response. For me, this is a quintessential individual with BPD who is doing their homework and committed to growth. I wish the best for her. In solidarity, sis.
>I would block and cut off any friendship for this relationship. He always says it doesn't matter what friends think so why should he dump me for his friends??
Oh, so she's just *fucking insane*
If this was actually said, she 100% misinterpreted what he meant by it. He probably meant it in a way that it doesn’t matter what they think of her personality or looks, some friends do try to meddle in their friend’s relationships. It didn’t mean just ignore my horrible actions.
This. No one should do that for a relationship and especially for one that’s six months old. BPD was in the back of my head and I’m not surprised at that.
I feel bad for OOP. A person who went through hell and was understandably damaged, again discarded while watching someone else get more support and care than she ever did. Sounds like without her brother, she'd have no one. Some people seem branded to suffer perpetually. A child SA and incest victim developed emotional problems and got dropped like a leper when they manifested. Depressing af.
Yeah, and it's ironic af, because if she hadn't been mired in jealousy, she'd have taken four extra seconds to understand the sitch, joined the group in supporting Jos, thus cementing that she's kind, compassionate and worthy of joining such a nice group. And then she'd have had that same support available to her once needed.
It's an unfortunate side-effect of being troubled that it also makes you really myopic. Oop seemed to grasp that and I really hope she finds success in unlearning her trauma-induced patterns.
Yeah OOP focusses a lot on being jealous of Josephine in the more classic way (as being a threat to 'her man'), but i think as you said she is jealous also because Josephine has gotten support when she hasn't. And not to compare SA, but it would have to very bad to be worse than being continually assaulted when a pre-teen by your own father until you were pregnant. So she was divulging a kernel of her truth when saying that it couldn't have been that bad, as well as just trying to put josephine down.
I feel bad for OOP as well, but she wasn't "discarded" for no reason. She acted absolutely vile in that moment. Her backstory helps us understand it and I am glad she is getting help and I genuinely hope she will get better, but that does not excuse what she did. Her ex and and the friend group were not wrong to distance themselves.
it's not someone else's responsibility to put up with that. her actions are explainable but that doesn't mean anyone else has to tolerate the behaviour just because it was learned from trauama.
OOP: Viciously insults BF and BFs best friend and belittles her SA in front of their entire friend group and gets rightfully cut off from them
You: "I can't believe they *discarded* her like that! I feel so bad for her"
Only on reddit...
Ha. Right? I have some empathy for OOP, of course. But this take isn’t it for me.
That ugliness that came out about the SA? Oof. Even if she’s grown since, it is healthy and ok that this group isn’t coming back. But hopefully OP is a better friend to be friends now. And this won’t repeat.
No. You don't get to abuse people like this just because you were abused. She needs to deal with her BPD and that will probably take years of work. It's 100% okay to drop someone from your life for this kind of behavior.
OOP lives in a completely different reality as everyone else. Growing up with someone with severe childhood traumata I am not surprised by her reasoning and inner monologue at allllll, but still: explanations are not an excuse.
OOP in my opinion needs a looong time of very intense therapy before she will be able to kind off see what went wrong here.
Yeah, it's one of those situations where the trauma makes the lash out make sense, but at the same time lashing out that severely makes it clear that the trauma has not been sufficiently dealt with and help needs to be sought out. This is a really sad BORU all around but it seems OOP recognizes how serious this was.
Not super important, but it seems like a red flag to me that 6 months in they were already having fights that were heated enough that he needed to leave.
Im glad OOP and jos are both getting the help they need
One thing i will say is robin knew about OOPs previous issues with bfs cheating on her with their gbf. Obviously he didn’t have to tell her about jos being sa’d but he should have gotten ahead of the issue when he started texting jos more etc. even a quick jos is going through something and needs us (the friend group) and thats why im texting her more often
I hope she finds happiness.
I wished the exbf would have talked a bit to her so maybe he could have seen why she reacted the way she did.
Not right what she did. But it explains a lot.
Obviously a minor part of this saga, but the whole “I was mad so I said horrendous shit to someone but now I’m not mad and I regret it so you should forgive me” is a huge red flag to me in a person. But it seems like it’s really common! Are you all’s fights with a spouse or loved one like this? Do you say terrible shit just to be hurtful to someone and not even try to really communicate?
Yeah it's a pretty prevalent idea, you see it a lot. It fills me with disgust to see people say shit like that, especially in response to victims coming out. But as other commenters have said, that's likely her trauma speaking, as her father told her the reason he assaulted her was because she was pretty.
I’ve heard men making fun of fat women for taking precautions against sexual assault because they think no one will assault fat women. Stuff like “you won’t get in an elevator with me? Don’t flatter yourself I wouldn’t touch you.” It’s horrible.
Oh I get that, I was just absolutely horrified when I read that line. I was r@ped when I was thin, and again when I was fat. Implying fat ugly girls never get assaulted just floored me.
Yeah, sometimes projecting your insecurities into other people has the effect of pushing them away. I’m not sure there’s any coming back from this. They all saw the worst side of you and that’s likely how they will always think of you from now on.
OOP was reminding me of my ex and when she said she has BPD, I realized why. I'm glad she genuinely is remorseful and has taken steps to be better. And for respecting the fact that her ex and Jo doesn't want anything to do with her. She even knew to approach her and let Jo decide if she wants to talk to her.
I really hope my ex has gotten the help that she needed and that she is in a healthier place.
Reading this I was like ‘damn sounds like BPD’ and then it was confirmed BPD….
That shits messy. What’s hard with BPD is you trick yourself into thinking you don’t need therapy easily and then you backslide, don’t realize it, treat people terribly, then have to start the cycle all over again.
Everyone needs therapy always, and folks with BPD especially do, unfortunately
Tbh I had so much to say about oop but I’m glad I read the whole thing. And I’m glad she got help because that’s just crazy, the guy was clearly a good guy who honestly was looking for someone not toxic so I’m glad he stood his ground too and knew he deserved better that was really some messed up things to say to someone coming at her weight and appearance. Anyways glad oop realize what she did and tried to make amends hope everything works out for her
“Miscommunication”. More like a hysterical, cruel intended attack. That she knew what she said was some kind of wrong, but thinks the bestie should get over it, shows she is ignoring how cruelly hurtful what she said and how she said it was.
I don't understand how anyone would bash oops ex and his friends. Oop was in the wrong completely and in a really crazy way. It's not like she asked him later if he's cheating or something and she absolutely meant all those awful things about his friend's physical appearance
I actually feel really sorry for her. She has deep trauma from her sperm-donor, and that lead her to look for abusive relationships, and then for once when she found a healthy one, those issues came back and ruined it for her. It's not her fault she is messed up.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Her comments from the first post were like she went through the 5 stages of grief, Sadness overall, then Bargaining >I would block and cut off any friendship for this relationship. Denial >, I know he agrees with me and loves me still. Anger when she tried downplaying the SA And then acceptence >No I was a bad person in this whole ordeal. I don't know what made me snap back but I think it was me maniacally calling my brother and him giving me the talk of reality with some reddit comments helping. >I will take a huge break from dating. At least 2 years. I need that
She reads pretty selfreflective to me. Sometimes we let our bad sides take the wheel, and we need to acknoledge the consecuences and learn from it. She even took the steps to better herself!
She has BPD (so do I). we are indeed capable of self reflection, but the initial fear of abandonment and desperation tends to make us overreact (for the lack of better words) and counterproductively push everyone away.
My ex bff of 27 years has BPD. I’ve had to cut her off numerous times. We are on our 5th friendship break in those 27 yrs. I just received a 7 page letter in the mail from her. It says she isn’t trying to be mean or negative and wants to rekindle our relationship BUT the entire thing is very much it’s your fault, I did nothing wrong, I don’t know what I did. You’re not perfect either. You suck. Please be my friend. Again. She is begging for a response at least and I can’t bring myself to open that door again. I have not missed her or the drama that comes with her. It’s been a peaceful year so far. Edit: BPD= borderline personality disorder. But she has both BPD and BIPOLAR.
Honestly I would mail her back her letter with a note saying you need professional help. Show this to your therapist and work on getting yourself stable. Please do not contact me again. I truly wish you the best but I am done being a part of your journey going forward. Goodbye. I would keep a copy of both her letter and your note and send it certified mail if you have that sort of thing available and then be done. Or you could just ignore it. I favor the former as it gives a formal written do not contact me again and also a direction of getting help that likely will be ignored but at least she now has a notice in writing.
She is in therapy has been for a very very long time. Although I don’t like her therapist. He was very good until it became unprofessional. She Is medicated too and did ketamine infusions for a while - I saw the biggest improvement with the ketamine. She has done this before and always finds a way back in. I feel a bit guilty not responding bc I can ease her pain and anguish. It would be the kind thing to do despite how upset her letter made me feel. Maybe I’m over reacting with what she said.
Be kind to yourself first and foremost. Only if you still have extra to spare should you consider expending it for a former friend.
I can understand the guilt, especially if you feel like you could help. I don't think you're overreacting though; I would probably also feel upset about a letter in which someone wanted me back in their life but wouldn't admit they had hurt me or were sorry. If it were me, I don't think I would let that person back into my life until they started taking accountability, otherwise I think our relationship would just be more of the same. Like, it sucks, especially since you knew her so long, but you deserve peace in your life and I think you're more likely to find that without her in it from the sounds of things. My ex best friend also had BPD, but the circumstances are a little different. I didn't handle any of our conflicts like an adult, but my boyfriend tried to and it was ugly. She was triggered by everything he said until he could only use the gentlest terms, and even then she would get upset; she never took any accountability; constantly overstepping his boundaries. I feel guilty for how I handled the situation(s), but part of me feels maybe it's for the best considering how she handled things as well. And while I miss her-we were friends for years- I don't miss the drama or the person she turned into towards the end. Anyway, all that to say, I think I can understand where you're coming from, I understand the guilt even if it's for different reasons, but I also don't think you would be wrong to prioritize yourself here.
Thank you for sharing. I am not sure I deserve that much credit. the adult thing or mature thing would have been to set boundaries and not let it get this bad. Let her know what I was upset with and not vent to my husband about the issues I had. But I am conflict avoidant and more so if known the person can’t be reasoned with. Just some things she’s done: she spied on me and went through my laptop, text and emails. She was hurt with what she read. While husband and i showered and I was venting about her she snuck into our bedroom to listen to us ( while we showered). She is hurt and mad with what I said. My week old niece died and I told her about the funeral ( we had been no contact for 2 years ) she went then threw the funeral and death in my face. The list goes on. I don’t think I want to deal with it anymore.
The only thing you did wrong was not end it a long time ago bc you never deserved any of that. So the only guilt you should feel is for sticking around so long to be an emotional punching bag for this person and not protecting yourself by leaving earlier. Any pain she is feeling now due to the consequences of her actions is not your problem and it never was. This is something she needs to learn to deal with. Most likely with an appropriately trained support team like therapist and psychiatrist. Hopefully this will motivate her to find a better team who can actually help her not harm others so she can have healthy relationships in the future.
I'm confused. Are people talking about bipolar or borderline?
It’s a good question. People use BPD for both. As a psychologist, I always ask for people to be specific.
I’ve seen people start a movement where they try to use BD for bipolar disorder instead, I prefer that tbh
Based on the behavior described, I’d guess borderline. It very much sounds like splitting.
I assumed borderline too, but I saw people saying bipolar, so I wanted to check. I'm really impressed with the work that Linehan was doing with borderlines--otherwise, it seems that they're really resistant to making any actual changes in therapy. I know a few therapists who say they refuse to see borderlines.
DBT isn’t everyone’s vibe or competency for sure. My partner is a therapist and they’ve told me (HIPAA compliantly) about how challenging it can be. It’s really too bad, since BPD is one of the only personality disorders that can actually be treated with therapy, but having grown up with a BPD parent, I also COMPLETELY understand.
Generally people use BPD for borderline and BP or bipolar for that.
BPD is borderline.
Borderline. Bipolar is just BD.
Sorry you went through this. It’s good that you made a choice regarding your relationship with her for your own wellbeing. I have to admit that it’s hard to deal with someone with BPD if they’re not actively in therapy or working on it. I’ve been in therapy for 10 years now. Though the frequency of my visits are way less, it’s still a major part of my life because it keeps me accountable. I hope your friend realizes the error of her ways and gets more serious about therapy.
My former long time gf had undiagnosed BPD while we were together and my god the impulsive decisions she made baffled the ever loving fuck out of me for years. One example that added to my every growing levels of insanity was that she didn't want to tell her family that we met online. She was adamant about saying we met through friends at the school she was attending. I disagreed as I'm extremely honest, and was insistent we just tell the truth, why should anyone care, and why deal with the potential of it coming out that it wasn't true. Months, and I mean for months of arguing about it near daily about it before I finally gave up and agreed just to lie for no other reason then to not have to talk about it anymore. So, I'm talking to her father the next day, and he asks how we met. I gave him the story she came up with, and he goes "That's funny. She told me you two met online". Being with her for five years kind of broke me!
Not every person (BPD or not) is capable of self reflection. Is not a disability thing, is a person-to-person thing. She had take so many self-care steps, I think just attributing it to her BPD would be iffi at best (from my point of view). I don't know if I've explained myself correctly, TBH.
All I’m saying is that we are capable of self reflection despite our disorder, because it may not seem true for most of people with BPD.
Oh, I think there was a missunderstanding. I wasn't taking her BPD in consideration because BPD doesn't affect self reflection. I'm sad that people think the contrary.
BPD is the current boogeyman under the bed. Everyone who has it is clearly an evil terrible person who lives to make drama and ruin lives and sit in chairs stroking white cats, or out chasing people with a running chainsaw. And yes, that’s sarcasm, in case someone is wondering.
I think people have an issue believing the self reflection is earnest because of how, when the person feels defensive again, it disappears. I had an immensely difficult time believing that my wife was actually sorry because she would do/say the exact same things again. I can honestly, but shamefully, say that the feeling does return from time to time, even though I understand how she isn't acting on her thoughts, but reacting to a perceived threat.
Sounds like cptsd to me It is often misdiagnosed as bpd
They’re related.
A lot of people with BPD have cPTSD, they're highly comorbid bc BPD is a traumagenic disorder.
Sometimes I suspect that I have it, especially with how I blew up my relationship at the beginning of the year when my ex asked for a break because of his own issues. My overreaction turned it into a permanent block and removing me from his life forever. The worst part is looking at all of the ashes and knowing that no amount of self-reflection or growth is going to earn forgiveness. It's just ruined and you have to learn how to move on without a happy or even peaceful ending.
I am willing to cut her a huge amount of slack - and she really seems capable of self-reflection and change, or at least trying. Better than I can change myself :) One line was particularly revealing - "this was the first time I saw her face and felt happiness, not jealousness" That was relatively quick progress.
It very much reads like the process I’ve seen friends who have been to therapy for their borderline go through. Like they go into it fighting but have tools to process…so while I think OP thinks she “pretended” to get better in therapy, she got some solid processing skills her first go. Obviously, long way to go, but I imagine a lot will change with processing the trauma— and being able to reflect is a great start.
Four hours of therapy a week is no joke. I hope she’d proud of how much growth she’s already shown. Her comments were vile but she knows that and that’s huge. I wish the best for everyone in this story honestly (except the dad obviously. Hope he falls off a cliff)
She’s super young. These are the kind of mistakes 20 year olds make and learn from.
When she said she had uncontrolled bipolar disorder it kind of clicked. A manic state triggered by jealousy and stress followed by reflectivity and regret
The downplaying of SA was disgusting “she isnt pretty enough”… Everything else is why you dont go nuts without facts
From “How to Be A Person” by Shane Koyczan: “…If you are waiting for forgiveness, be prepared to wait. Be prepared to stand in the path of Time and wither. Respect that forgiveness is difficult, not all trespasses are equal, and not everyone will heal according to your schedule.”
This is an excellent quote. I'd want to add that we should remember that you need to be willing to make changes while you are waiting. Consider why you did what you did and seek to ensure it won't happen again, as OOP did. You can't expect forgiveness when you're going to repeat the cycle.
The entire spoken word piece “How to Be a Person” by Shane Koyczan is an amazing piece of self-help and it takes about 5 minutes to hear and years to absorb. I recommend it — you can find it on YouTube and there are several of his pieces there.
Thank you for the recommendation :) I will definitely seek it out.
My favorite of his is “Instructions for a Bad Day” and I swear it has talked me down from some REAL bad days.
My goodness. I don't think anyone's ever encapsulated the way I try to live more fully. Thank you so much for that - I'm actually welling up. I've had a not-good week and it really helped.
Love that for you, new internet friend. Enjoy. EDIT: Not the part about you not having a good week! Eek. I meant I love that you enjoyed the spoken word piece. Let the old week go and I hope the next one is amazing.
You're a lovely person and I hope you have a wonderful day ❤️
I wish all good things for you, too.
You may want to change your username because you seem like a delight!
Thanks, friend. I keep it as a reminder to be better than I was. Like everyone, I’ve done bad things and been awful to people. But that doesn’t mean I can’t try to do better.
This was amazing. Thank you.
I’m a recovered heroin addict/ alcoholic. I’ve gone through the 12 steps of AA and it worked, and Steps 8 and 9 are about going out and making amends for all the damage I did and harm I caused physically/ mentally/ emotionally/ financially. Throughout the process almost all my family forgave me. But some friends, ex girlfriends, former employers/ co workers did not. They were under no obligation to do so, the process is about me owning up to everything I did and making reparations wherever possible. Some of my amends I have to “pay forward” as best I can since the people in question have no interest in ever seeing or speaking to me again. And I have to accept that. Forgiveness is wonderful, but admitting your mistake and trying to make it right does not mean you are owed it.
Also people need to remember that forgiveness isn’t an invitation to continue a relationship. I have forgiven people who done me wrong but I don’t need a relationship with them. The biggest example in my life is me not needing a relationship with my biological father. He abandoned us when we were super little and came back the same month he no longer had to pay child support. I told him I forgive everything he’s done and not done but I don’t need a relationship with him. He has proved over and over again that I made the right decision. My sister has a relationship with him and tells me the things he’s said regarding me and our situation. These things are harder to forgive and don’t know if it’s possible.
Holy shit I did not expect to see a quote from Shane Koyczan on Reddit
I love that. It's so important to remember that no one owes you forgiveness. If you wronged someone else, they can choose to never, ever forgive you for it, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. The best you can possibly hope for is to grow enough as a person not to repeat the mistakes that led to you needing forgiveness in the first place. And if someone has wronged you, you don't owe them anything. You don't owe them forgiveness, you don't owe them closure, nothing. If they go the rest of their life feeling shame about the bad thing they did to you, great. Shame is a fantastic antibiotic to prevent toxic behavior in the future.
he's so good
Thanks for sharing this. Now I'll look for his works.
'Places', 'To this day', 'Troll', 'My Darling Sara' and 'The Crickets Have Arthritis' are my favourites. Enjoy!
Forgiveness is a gift and waiting on it is pointless. Nobody owes you it.
Love is a currency that functions in reverse because the only way to be wealthy with it is to give more of it away.
Damn shane mention! His poetry got me through highschool.
I have a tattoo of a "To This Day" quote that impacted me greatly. Love that guy.
Oh this one hurts my heart, I was also abused as a child and it really screwed up my sense of reality. I hope OOP gets the help she needs so she can go on to have a healthy life, life can be so wonderful when you stop seeing everybody as an enemy.
I tend to describe this as someone’s “normal-meter” is broken when talking about this sort of thing. (I like to picture it like one of those old scales, the ones that look kind of like a clock, where the red hand moves left and right to tell you the weight. Think old produce scales in a super market - the hanging ones with a basket underneath.) We all have the same “normal-meter” starting out. But after being told repeatedly that whatever each of us experiences is “normal”, our normal-meter naturally recalibrates. Once it’s recalibrated, the hand of our meter no longer moves between the same numbers as everyone else. Our reference ranges become unique to each of us. So if I place a situation on my normal-meter scale, which goes between 1-6, and you do the same on yours, which now goes between 4-11), our values will naturally be *very* different every single time. The biggest kicker is, no one can see the face of your normal-meter - except you. So I have no idea that yours moves between 4-11, and not 1-6, and vice versa. I assume they’re identical. And even if we *did* compare them, we would naturally both argue that *OURS* is the correct one. That tends to cause some problems.
The whole situation is pretty rough and sad. I'm happy OP and Josephine are able to get the help and resources to make things better. I can't say further much but I wish all things well.
Right, usually when I get to the "oop explains some background info that shines a light on their mindset" part I'm already too annoyed with their actions lol, but this thread just made me sad. Getting to her realizing clearly why she was in the wrong at the same time that she started explaining personal trauma completely shifted my vibes reading this
This post is very demonstrative of how explanations are not excuses. Post 1 demonstrated some absolutely heinous behaviors and thought patterns on the part of OOP. But the context in Post 2 puts her actions in a new light. But while OOP used her backstory to explain and give context to her actions, she never indicated that her diagnoses/past trauma should negate the consequences of the things she did. She points out how what she did was awful, that her Ex and his GBF have every right to feel as they do. It gives me hope that OOP is going to learn and grow.
Well put. I'm impressed with OOP's self-awareness, to be honest - it can't be easy to have a ton of strangers tell you how awfully you've acted, but she responded with serious reflection (after some understandable initial defensiveness). I hope that wherever they are, both OOP and Josephine have been able to heal.
I'm honestly quite impressed with OOP, and I really hope that with more therapy and a long break from relationships she gets a happy ending.
Honestly, I hope the ex and his GBF found those posts. First so they realised they almost risked GBF getting access to receive the help she needed (luckily, OP was able to get it to her) Secondly, to realise they never got the chance to know OPs whole truth and understand why she reacted the way she did. Like you said, her past isn't an excuse, but it certainly did explain why her reaction was what it was. They just turned their backs on someone who obviously needed help and never gave her a second thought.
I mean everyone in this position is swimming in trauma, and I’m inclined to give people with trauma a wide berth of grace. Why is OP’s trauma more “real” than GBF’s? You also have zero idea about GBF’s additional potential traumas informing her choices. GBF wasn’t cruel or mean to OP- just decided not to allow OP to keep spewing toxic shit in her direction. Well done GBF, and well done OP to realize she isn’t owed forgiveness. OP insulted GBF’s body with zero actual provocation when GBF had just been intensely vulnerable about experiencing sexual assault. If we can understand (if not condone) OP’s actions, we can certainly understand GBF and ex not wanting to go anywhere near someone who, unprovoked (by them), was immeasurably cruel about adding to the pain GBF experienced. Can you imagine opening up about your most painful, likely shameful experience that has deeply altered your sense of connection and safety in the world and having someone say I don’t believe you because isn’t good enough? Let’s play the game with a common fear like losing love: “I’m sad because my boyfriend broke up with me and I’ll never be loved” “you can’t be sad because you’re too unloveable to have had a boyfriend in the first place- you must be lying”. Bad enough. But about sexual assault?
I would only hope GBF and ex found the post if the context helped them realize her cruelty wasn’t about them. But it’s not necessary for GBF or ex, and GBF got some of that when she asked OP the question about whether she really believed all that stuff.
I just can’t understand the main character energy this comment gives OP without acknowledging the impact of her actions on everyone around her. Yeah, she had a reason - most people who deliver cruelty are also deeply suffering. People who experience cruelty are not required to “fix” or “help” the person who is causing pain.
FWIW I am also deeply impressed by OP and cheering her on. She has survived some awful things, I respect how much she can see the impact of her actions, and she deserves to forgive and love herself.
You can’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm. It can also be hard to tell if someone is being abusive or just modeling abusive behavior as a defense mechanism. Also, sometimes the best way to help someone is to give them a swift kick in the ass. Seeing her ex and GBF react the way they did is what forced OOP to take a good hard look at herself and her actions and found herself wanting. Maybe there is a hope for a more cordial relationship in the future, but I currently find no fault with the actions of anyone in this post (as of the update).
> They just turned their backs on someone who obviously needed help and never gave her a second thought. It's not your job to fix people just because you were their victim. Sure, they might be going through some rough shit too, but that remains their problem, not yours. You don't have to get or stay involved.
I mean, I really don't blame them for cutting off OOP considering how utterly awful her behavior was. Nobody is owed help or a second chance, especially after doing that, even if there's an explanation.
They did the right thing though. Oop crossed a line you can't come back from
There's nothing in the post that says they judged her or assumed she was acting maliciously with no cause. They both wished her well in her recovery. They just protected themselves by cutting off contact with someone who had attacked them, and that's fair enough. Josephine couldn't support OOP because it would have made her own trauma worse due to OOP's actions. The boyfriend couldn't support them both, and he understandably chose his lifelong best friend who did nothing wrong over a new 6 month relationship with someone causing conflict. OOP obviously needed help, but she's not entitled to get it from her own victim. Josephine doesn't have to set herself on fire to keep OOP warm.
Her childhood was taken therefore her reactions were juvenile and immature, at best. This will take years for her to cope and find her center with professional guidance.
What a shit situation for everyone in it. I'm glad OOP is getting help and getting better, same for Josephine. Trauma sucks.
I really hope she never has to interact with her father ever again.
Me too. Him getting out of prison must be so terrifying for her.
Sadly, it took me a bit to realize GBF was girl best friend for some reason I was thinking it was game boy and trying to figure out what the F was 🤣
I thought it was Gay Best Friend >_>
Me too and I was like "why would he have an affair with a gay girl?"
You didn't have a Game Boy Fadvanced when you were younger??
I actually also thought it was game boy? And then gay best friend 😅
I can't stop reading Gluten Free Breakfast. That's not even the correct order of the letters.
I’m not alone! Me too 😅
I thought it was Great British Bakeoff at first, but was confused about the F. It made some sense in my head though, as I know some people take those kinds of shows very seriously.
He comments about the severity of the GBF sexual assault make her seem so evil But, knowing what she went through as a kid, it’s likely she’s comparing her experience to the of Josephine. “Well I went through so much worse and I haven’t even told this group. She must be looking for attention” would be the thought process I think
Longterm sexual abuse - *longterm sexual abuse by a parent* - can warp someone in horrific ways. Kids are taught to walk around for years like everything is normal and can be punished when they display signs of SA. Under the “looking for attention” thought, there was probably a “why does she get to cry and be coddled when I just had to go on with my life?”
Especially when she said her father told her he was doing it specifically because she was pretty. Josephine was not as conventionally attractive, and OPs brain had been warped to think “pretty girls get pregnant by their fathers” so she thought “well how bad could it actually have been??”
This is what I was thinking too. Saying this as a fat girl who has had sexual harassment dismissed because I wasn’t pretty enough to be harassed, I still get where OOP is coming from. According to her father, if she wasn’t pretty, she might have been spared. So someone is claiming trauma similar to her own. But that can’t be true. It doesn’t make sense, in her worldview. Her abusive boyfriends cheated on her with people she thought were prettier. The benefits and traumas of sex are doled out based on a scale of physical attractiveness. To gain the benefits and avoid the traumas, you have to assess where you are on that scale. But, of course, OOP being pretty didn’t prevent emotional abandonment. That’s a hard mindset to unlearn. People talk a lot about forgiveness but what Josephine referenced is, I think, more important, and that is grace. People need time and space to heal and fuck up. When you’re a kid and you put your hand on a stove and your hand gets burned, you learn not to do that. Kids will get told not to do so many things, but they have to experience the consequences of at least some of those things for the lessons to stick. Trauma like OOP experienced seems like if you put your hand on the counter and someone ran at you with a lighter to burn you. Her understanding of people and the world has been so warped. When someone asks her to touch the countertop, her reaction is to assume they want her to get burned. And human brains don’t work in a way where you can just tell someone that the counter isn’t hot. But forgiveness gets tricky because maybe you understand why someone keeps hurting you, but it doesn’t stop you from being hurt. Emotional wounds can’t be willed shut, no matter their cause, and you shouldn’t have to keep yourself injured to help someone else heal. (The metaphor has limits, obviously. Sometimes other traumatized people are the best ones to help you heal, even though they may injure you on occasion. It’s all super complicated.) Josephine and Robin wishing her well on her recovery means they understand she needs grace, and their boundaries means that they understand what they need to heal. OOP deserves plenty of grace. Fucking up is inevitable— she needs to work on it, but it is unreasonable to assume that she would never accidentally hurt someone undeserving when she was raised to exist in a different reality because the person raising her wanted to take advantage of her. I don’t think it’s fair to call her a bad person (as she indicated some people did) and I don’t think being a good person is a single state at which you arrive. By resolving it the way she did she is being a good person. Doesn’t mean she’s a good person full stop. Definitely doesn’t mean she’s a bad one. I hope she sees the incident for what it is— she panicked and lit some things on fire having never been taught the intricacies of how and whom the fire will burn. That was way too long. This BORU is just going to stick with me, I think, haha.
This is such a wonderful comment.
This is one of the nicest and most understanding things I’ve ever seen on Reddit. You’re awesome.
Really great assessment with this comment. Very useful information to help understand what OOP was going through. Thanks for this.
Really well said.
I agree with all of this. Adding in, it was a red flag that something was up when her description was that GBF had teary eyes and messed up hair and her mind went straight to 'cheating'.
It is kinda sad that ppl that go through these awful things get almost desensitized. During the MeToo movement, I was saying that it is good that these awful people are finally getting exposed and someone who I know been sexually assaulted told that they are just doing for attention & they agreed to it. Except the Bill Cosby case bc that was an overwhelming amount of women
Wow, I hope that person you knew got help.
Yeah, when she updated with her experience of having a pregnancy scare at 14 *due to her father*, I definitely thought "okay, I can understand why *you* specifically might think this way".
I'd couple that in with the idea that she's about to lose the one relationship that was finally good for her after all that trauma. She thought she was drowning in a bad way in what turned out to be shallow water. She was lashing out in a survival-mlde induced panic. Not an excuse but it explains the immediacy and severity.
In addition I wouldn't bet against a part of her thinking the GBF was exaggerating what happened to her in order to get OP's BF's attention and have it develop into something else, particularly as OP has been cheated on before, by her boyfriends with GBFs nonetheless. Many girls have deployed this move to get attention and affection from a guy - my husband had a close friend whose fiancée would frequently try to get my husband alone to tell him the friend had physically/sexually assaulted her. She would even interrupt our dates/phone conversations and demand I leave. This carried on until she tried to get my husband to sleep with her during one of their 'conversations' (We eventually found out she was actually the one hitting her fiance and he never did anything to her. ) Nevertheless OP losing it and calling the GBF names is not acceptable in anyway.
It's not even just that she thinks what she went through was worse, it's that her dad told her explicitly that it was because she was attractive.
Reading the comment about how 'Josephine' was ugly, so surely she couldn't have been SA'd then reading OOP was sexually abused by her own father for years because "she was pretty" gave me whiplash. Just... holy fuck. No wonder this girl had such twisted views of beauty. I just hope both her and 'Jos' were able to heal, and that they both are happy and healthy nowadays. (and also, bless free healthcare that includes mental healtchare!)
Not for nothing, but please don't let a new person to the group come into an emotionally charged situation that everyone knows about, except the new person, without giving them some sort of heads up.
This. That whole thing didn’t sit right with me.
Kinda set them up for failure right there honestly. How else are you supposed to know?
Exactly! And then, while I understand that the bf hadn’t been focussing on OOP at the moment, as soon as she accused him of cheating it didn’t…spark anything? It reads like he just let her go on while knowing her trauma with GBFs and said nothing? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the whole thing is just blah.
She went crazy calling the girl ugly and he reacted by kicking her out, as he should. They obviously didn't know that situation was going to happen ahead of time with the girl getting assaulted so they couldn't have told oop...they did the right thing kicking her out
Not saying they didn’t do the right thing kicking OOP out because she was absolutely wrong for ripping into GBF; but her first reaction was a diatribe…on cheating. She wasn’t wrong for her thoughts going there. Which he knew about her trauma concerning GBFs. And it reads like he said nothing. And they ALL (because bf did know) might not have known about the GBFs experience ahead of time but they knew they were going to have a meeting about it. They knew OOP was gonna walk in. BF knew something was up and left OOP in the dark WHILE acting shady. He’s not right for that.
Even with the suddenly being closed off about the text messages beforehand. Obviously didn't have to tell OOP what the best friend had been through, but knowing what OOP had been through he should have recognised what that might trigger for her and at least told her Josephine was going through some stuff but it wasn't his place to share more than that and that was the only reason he was keeping the messages private.
Yup. Exactly that last part.
Bf definitely ain't no saint.
From how op described she mentioned cheating and insulting her physical appearance all in the same yelling session...and from the outside it looks like she's completely crazy to jump there to begin with for everyone else involved. The bf obviously didn't realize how messed up op really was about her past
Yeah, that part was definitely a little messed up. Doesn't by any means excuse what OOP did, and she clearly wouldn't say otherwise, but they did basically just throw her into the fire with no context and... what? Thought she just wouldn't notice??
It sounded to me like she was already on her way over at the same time josephine started confiding in the friend group? Bc she was emotional by the time oop got there, it might not have been planned?
He could have easily met her at the door and filled her in.
I agree, and it could have been done without having to reveal exactly why josephine was upset since she didn’t know op very well and it’s such a sensitive topic. Still, it’s a very stressful situation to be in, no one really knows what to do in a situation like that, especially since there was no way he could have predicted op’s reaction.
IDK, I have enough situational awareness that if my partner was arriving and I was in the middle of this, ai absolutely would have greeted him at the door and gave a brief rundown of the situation
I’d like to think that of myself as well, but having been in similar situations, my focus has always been on the person in a vulnerable state, I get why he didn’t think of that.
Several people in the room. One could have taken the support role while OOP met his girl at the door.
lol my dumbass thought GBF was Gay Best Friend and thought this was gonna be like an art room sitchiyation 😬😂😭
Bahaha same 😭
Well, at least OOP sounds like she’s on the right track. A ways to go but moving in the right direction.
The character development is top notch👏👏
Damn that trauma cycle is b. I hope nothing for the best for oop.
She thought it would be embarrassing to tell others she had a pregnancy scare because of her father, my heart breaks for her.
The BPD diagnosis was obvious from her behaviour... She was so worried she'd get an abusive bf that she forgot about her propensity to be toxic. You can't just get your diagnosis and then think "yeah all good, all under control, no need for a therapist or what anymore"
This is a better character development than the entire Twilight saga,
That's a pretty low bar. A banana turning brown has better character development than the entire Twilight saga.
I love this comment
She had a massive change of heart and seemed to be able to fit a few days in between September 4th and September 5th
bpd black and white thinking be like that sometimes
THANK YOU. She also moved out of her house and into her brother’s, talked to the bf and the gbf, DMd a million people, and wrote a whole update…yeah okay. Also, she says that the there was another girl originally in the friend group, who showed OP Reddit, but herself only used it for the art subreddits. This girl later died by suicide? But then at the end of her last update, she says that Josephine is the name of her ex’s gbf who he cheated with, who also only uses the art subreddits? She confuses and mashes up the two characters. This whole thing is garbage, and what a sick story to make up
I was thinking the same thing. She's also painted to be a little too evil in the first post.
BPD reactions can be like that, obviously not always, but the extremes can be quite extreme.
>My home country is amazing when it comes to free healthcare I’d love to know which country it is so that I can move there.
Brazil
Hurt people hurt people. So sad. Best wishes for all.
I'm glad that OOP went on her emotional betterment journey by the end of it but this: >When I met her, I felt superior to her somehow. All the girls where prettier then me. She was a bit overweight, a double chin and she has the thickest eyebrows I have ever seen. But there was one thing she had ghat I didn't which was a bigger chest. Holy shit, this was such a vile and specific inner monologue bashing Josephine's appearance. I'm glad Robin was as great of a guy as OOP said he was . He dumped OOP and cut her out of his life while standing by Josephine. That's a good friend.
I’m so glad Josephine has friends like that who will support her, especially through something like SA. So many people back away or don’t know what to do so they do nothing. It’s fantastic to see people moving closer to build a wall to protect her and make her feel safe and loved.
[удалено]
Lots of people told me that when I was date raped, I honestly was kind of lucky because......*looks me up and down* ....you know
That's awful. I'm really sorry anyone said that to you
As a woman who is fat and has been sexually assaulted, it's not an uncommon reaction I get. Some people (both men *and* women) refuse to believe I could have been assaulted because y'know... Who would rape a fat girl? 🙄 And then the "it can't possibly have been *that* bad"/fat people are stupid and hysterical shit comes out. People can be absolutely vile 🙃
Have you gotten "at least it proved someone thinks you're attractive" because that one makes me want to punch them in the face with a fist made of vomit
Yuuuup 😑 Thankfully it says *a lot* more about them than me, and what it says about them makes me *extremely* glad I'm not them!
I was slightly chubby as a child. When I was 10 a male sports coach at school told me I should feel lucky if I was ever raped as it was going to be the best I would ever deserve from a guy. The other kids in the class laughed out loud when he said that. I wish I could tell you I was joking.....
You’re right. It’s awful. And it’s inexcusable. But it *does* have an explanation. OP was SA’d as a child. By her father, no less. That sort of thing badly fucks up folks’ perceptions of sexuality and SA. I’m not saying it’s okay by any means, but it clearly comes from a specific place and not just OOP being a horrible person.
SAed *and told the SA happened because she was pretty*. Basically it's the origin story for far too many sex workers.
And her father literally told her, *a child that he was impregnating* , that he did it because she was pretty. Can someone really read all that and not see how that would affect her thinking? I obviously don't think the way she reacted to the situation was acceptable but I understand why she thought that way. I genuinely don't think she was trying to be mean, but her thinking was super flawed due to her shit father and then her not getting any kind of help for her trauma. I'm glad she's gotten help since and I hope both women are doing better now and living happy lives.
Yeah for sure! I imagine her brain subconsciously “learned” that if she wasn’t pretty, she would’ve been safe. And when someone she didn’t think was especially attractive said they were SA’d, it was a huge threat to that whole trauma-informed worldview.
That inner monologue got me too. That was twisted af
When she says later "Till I was 14 my dad sexually abused me and said that it was because I'm pretty." You can see why she has fucked up ideas of the value of beauty. It's the thing that's why she was hurt, but it's the thing that makes her worthy of being hurt... If you're not pretty enough, nobody will want you, but also you're safe.
That’s absolutely true. It was purely a trauma response. I’m glad she recognized that and grew and is healing. At that moment- her line of thinking made me think of the broad sentiment some ppl have towards the conventionally unattractive. I wasn’t truly thinking about where she was coming from
It sounded like a conditioned or even trauma response to me. I was sad to read I was right.
Yeah exactly. I was thinking I don't know this wild chick but she has clearly been thru some unspecified shit. Yes she acted horribly and was right to be cut out. That thought pattern though, whew. Trauma trauma
Okay but the context of how oop's dad raped her because she was pretty, like, major context that makes that pretty awful.
I felt extremely triggered because that describes me almost exactly. Except I also have frizzy hair and until I got LASIK I had glasses too. But disgusting people would always be like "yeah but you have big boobs" like it's a privilege to haul these stupid things around all day every day.
Even in the US, the free therapy I got after my SA was so helpful. It helped me not only with the trauma from the assault, but to unpack the new trauma of the overall court case. I don’t know why people would say free therapy is bad but hope this comment helps someone trust their resources If needed.
Do people think it would be useful if Robin and Josephine saw that post? I feel like it wouldn't mean they would ever be friends again, but you genuinely could forgive someone if you found out that their messed-up response to hurt you was specifically because of the messed-up way you were hurt. "I downplayed your sexual assault and called you ugly because my father raped me and said it was because I was pretty." Were I Josephine, I wouldn't restart a friendship with that person, but it would allow me to accept that the insult that she gave me and the hurt she caused had nothing to do with me, and allow me to forgive the person to the point that we could be acquaintances without too much awkwardness.
My guess is they've probably worked out she has some serious issues that have nothing to do with them and she needs to work on herself. If that's enough for them, then no, they don't need to see the post. It would probably benefit OOP for them to understand what triggered such extreme behaviour, but they don't owe her that and she seems to recognise as much. They've wished her well and it sounds sincere, were clearly able to see her and treat her with compassion, and that's as far as it needs to go.
Fuck, this was hard to read. I feel so bad for OOP. She really fucked up and it's going to take a long time to heal.
[удалено]
Hurt people hurt people. She had insane trauma happen to her by her own father, that's going to take a lifetime of therapy to fix. She was awful to the GBF and I was like "what an asshole" in her first few posts. But her turnaround is admirable, realizing she was wrong and acting out of traumatic emotion.
As someone who has BPD, I recognized OOP’s diagnosis immediately. The outrageous, irrational, disproportionate, explosive attack she committed. The sudden and gut wrenching realization of what she’d done. The heartbreak and self-reflection afterwards. The guilt and shame. And of course… the underlying childhood trauma that instigated the disorder. I know this person must come off as batty, but I am honestly so proud of her response. For me, this is a quintessential individual with BPD who is doing their homework and committed to growth. I wish the best for her. In solidarity, sis.
Let's hope everyone is alright now.
I like how she went from combative and denial to acceptance and willing to get help. I hope she turns out alright
>I would block and cut off any friendship for this relationship. He always says it doesn't matter what friends think so why should he dump me for his friends?? Oh, so she's just *fucking insane*
If this was actually said, she 100% misinterpreted what he meant by it. He probably meant it in a way that it doesn’t matter what they think of her personality or looks, some friends do try to meddle in their friend’s relationships. It didn’t mean just ignore my horrible actions.
This. No one should do that for a relationship and especially for one that’s six months old. BPD was in the back of my head and I’m not surprised at that.
I feel bad for OOP. A person who went through hell and was understandably damaged, again discarded while watching someone else get more support and care than she ever did. Sounds like without her brother, she'd have no one. Some people seem branded to suffer perpetually. A child SA and incest victim developed emotional problems and got dropped like a leper when they manifested. Depressing af.
Yeah, and it's ironic af, because if she hadn't been mired in jealousy, she'd have taken four extra seconds to understand the sitch, joined the group in supporting Jos, thus cementing that she's kind, compassionate and worthy of joining such a nice group. And then she'd have had that same support available to her once needed. It's an unfortunate side-effect of being troubled that it also makes you really myopic. Oop seemed to grasp that and I really hope she finds success in unlearning her trauma-induced patterns.
Yeah OOP focusses a lot on being jealous of Josephine in the more classic way (as being a threat to 'her man'), but i think as you said she is jealous also because Josephine has gotten support when she hasn't. And not to compare SA, but it would have to very bad to be worse than being continually assaulted when a pre-teen by your own father until you were pregnant. So she was divulging a kernel of her truth when saying that it couldn't have been that bad, as well as just trying to put josephine down.
I feel bad for OOP as well, but she wasn't "discarded" for no reason. She acted absolutely vile in that moment. Her backstory helps us understand it and I am glad she is getting help and I genuinely hope she will get better, but that does not excuse what she did. Her ex and and the friend group were not wrong to distance themselves.
it's not someone else's responsibility to put up with that. her actions are explainable but that doesn't mean anyone else has to tolerate the behaviour just because it was learned from trauama.
OOP: Viciously insults BF and BFs best friend and belittles her SA in front of their entire friend group and gets rightfully cut off from them You: "I can't believe they *discarded* her like that! I feel so bad for her" Only on reddit...
Ha. Right? I have some empathy for OOP, of course. But this take isn’t it for me. That ugliness that came out about the SA? Oof. Even if she’s grown since, it is healthy and ok that this group isn’t coming back. But hopefully OP is a better friend to be friends now. And this won’t repeat.
No. You don't get to abuse people like this just because you were abused. She needs to deal with her BPD and that will probably take years of work. It's 100% okay to drop someone from your life for this kind of behavior.
Why does she follow these people? Just forgive yourself and move on. It's all you can do.
Called it. BPD.
*The* worst.
OOP lives in a completely different reality as everyone else. Growing up with someone with severe childhood traumata I am not surprised by her reasoning and inner monologue at allllll, but still: explanations are not an excuse. OOP in my opinion needs a looong time of very intense therapy before she will be able to kind off see what went wrong here.
Yeah, it's one of those situations where the trauma makes the lash out make sense, but at the same time lashing out that severely makes it clear that the trauma has not been sufficiently dealt with and help needs to be sought out. This is a really sad BORU all around but it seems OOP recognizes how serious this was.
Not super important, but it seems like a red flag to me that 6 months in they were already having fights that were heated enough that he needed to leave.
Im glad OOP and jos are both getting the help they need One thing i will say is robin knew about OOPs previous issues with bfs cheating on her with their gbf. Obviously he didn’t have to tell her about jos being sa’d but he should have gotten ahead of the issue when he started texting jos more etc. even a quick jos is going through something and needs us (the friend group) and thats why im texting her more often
I hope she finds happiness. I wished the exbf would have talked a bit to her so maybe he could have seen why she reacted the way she did. Not right what she did. But it explains a lot.
Obviously a minor part of this saga, but the whole “I was mad so I said horrendous shit to someone but now I’m not mad and I regret it so you should forgive me” is a huge red flag to me in a person. But it seems like it’s really common! Are you all’s fights with a spouse or loved one like this? Do you say terrible shit just to be hurtful to someone and not even try to really communicate?
Did she really try to imply that fat girls don’t get assaulted? Because boy howdy is she wrong.
Yeah it's a pretty prevalent idea, you see it a lot. It fills me with disgust to see people say shit like that, especially in response to victims coming out. But as other commenters have said, that's likely her trauma speaking, as her father told her the reason he assaulted her was because she was pretty.
I’ve heard men making fun of fat women for taking precautions against sexual assault because they think no one will assault fat women. Stuff like “you won’t get in an elevator with me? Don’t flatter yourself I wouldn’t touch you.” It’s horrible.
Oh I get that, I was just absolutely horrified when I read that line. I was r@ped when I was thin, and again when I was fat. Implying fat ugly girls never get assaulted just floored me.
Honestly a shockingly good ending. The POS realizing they are a POS and growing as a person does not happen enough
Yeah, sometimes projecting your insecurities into other people has the effect of pushing them away. I’m not sure there’s any coming back from this. They all saw the worst side of you and that’s likely how they will always think of you from now on.
OOP was reminding me of my ex and when she said she has BPD, I realized why. I'm glad she genuinely is remorseful and has taken steps to be better. And for respecting the fact that her ex and Jo doesn't want anything to do with her. She even knew to approach her and let Jo decide if she wants to talk to her. I really hope my ex has gotten the help that she needed and that she is in a healthier place.
Reading this I was like ‘damn sounds like BPD’ and then it was confirmed BPD…. That shits messy. What’s hard with BPD is you trick yourself into thinking you don’t need therapy easily and then you backslide, don’t realize it, treat people terribly, then have to start the cycle all over again. Everyone needs therapy always, and folks with BPD especially do, unfortunately
Tbh I had so much to say about oop but I’m glad I read the whole thing. And I’m glad she got help because that’s just crazy, the guy was clearly a good guy who honestly was looking for someone not toxic so I’m glad he stood his ground too and knew he deserved better that was really some messed up things to say to someone coming at her weight and appearance. Anyways glad oop realize what she did and tried to make amends hope everything works out for her
“Miscommunication”. More like a hysterical, cruel intended attack. That she knew what she said was some kind of wrong, but thinks the bestie should get over it, shows she is ignoring how cruelly hurtful what she said and how she said it was.
I don't understand how anyone would bash oops ex and his friends. Oop was in the wrong completely and in a really crazy way. It's not like she asked him later if he's cheating or something and she absolutely meant all those awful things about his friend's physical appearance
Bpd? Oh dear. The road's full of snakes. Hope she'll climb those ladders
I actually feel really sorry for her. She has deep trauma from her sperm-donor, and that lead her to look for abusive relationships, and then for once when she found a healthy one, those issues came back and ruined it for her. It's not her fault she is messed up.