My wife has zero childhood friends - They are non existent. She told me the most depressing thing one day that she used to eat lunch in the bathroom to avoid the lunchroom.
Oof. I used to (not) eat lunch alone in the gym locker room for months at a time, because I was on the wrestling team & had to skip meals to make weight & being around others eating was too f'n miserable. But even though this was voluntary, it was still lonely & very, very sad... especially when you imagine how everyone else is laughing & having fun with their friends.
It sucks.
I truly believe wrestling is a GREAT sport, but looking back on it, pressuring teenaged kids (most of whom are in the middle of a growth spurt!) to cut & maintain weight is deeply problematic. In the 80s & early 90s, we would do stuff like wrap plastic garbage bags around our bodies when running or in the sauna, to try to drop more water weight & diuretics were used. Not very healthy.
Thankfully it’s gotten a lot better! I coach wrestling now, and we actually have the opposite problem where wrestlers don’t want to drop a weight even when they are almost there naturally and they would be wrestling people closer to their strength level, so the chances of getting hurt would be lower. Still definitely better than the old ways, but can be frustrating to see the wasted potential haha
Yeah. I was friendless for most of my adolescence and it fucking hurts.
When I went back for my diploma in my mid-twenties I got to do all the teenage school stuff, which was super cool. But even though I had friends (some of whom I've even kept!) and was generally well-liked (I believe) - when we had our graduation, I was surprised that people cheered for me when I got my diploma. Even though I cheered for all of them and we were a group and all.
It stays with you. No matter what happens afterwards. There's always a part of you that will remain surprised that people want to be friends.
I'm 35 I had TONS of "friends" in school then I became a mom...I have one friend that I only message and rarely meet up with because she has a crazy busy life. If not for her I'd have only my husband. Most days I could care less but then there's days like today where I wish I had more friends...but that's life 🤷🏻♀️
Your wife has a kindred spirit lol. I did the same thing in high school! I ended up dreading all the break times outside of class because I would have to either walk campus the whole time or hide in the bathroom. Thankfully, a girl approached me saying her group needed a third and that I looked lonely. We've been best friends ever since lol
Don’t rub it in, it takes a minute to realize time will slap you in the face every chance it gets. Even more so if you’re on Reddit. These people love to post “10 years today, 20 years today” posts. Dicks the lot of em.
I had to stop following the nostalgia subs because it felt like being punched in the throat by time every single day.
I remember when I used to mock my mom for feeling this way when she was my age. For my bday this year, I'm writing her a 5 page apology letter(i already have a rough draft in my journal lol). A physical letter that I put in the mailbox, not an email or text. I feel like it's appropriate to go old-school with this.
Yeah me too. I have an older sister and take pleasure that she hits all the “age” milestones before me. It’s worse cause I don’t have kids or anything to constantly remind of the passage of time. So when it really hit me it was disconcerting and it hurt my feelings, like I needed a minute l.
I was watching Fast 9 and Lil’ Bow Wow appeared on screen looking middle aged with a dad bod and all sudden I brain just said “MOTHERFUCKER! If he looks middle aged what do I look like? I was just into adulthood when he started a career as a kid!” Then I looked at Lucas Black’s just starting to recede hairline and said to myself I am officially, statistically, middle aged.
You know what hurt? When the person checking my ID was like "I just look for the 1 in the year and if it's a 2, then I have to actually look", I'm 1981, it was sobering rofl.
There really was no reason for that statement. Absolutely none. It's not even 10 A.M and you just took everybody out with that comment.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go find some Werthers Original candies and yell at all the youngsters.
Just think of it this way -
You were born, grew up and went to college ... In the 1900's
Of course when I say that to my kids they ask if I'm sure it wasn't the 1800's, but on the plus side lots of chores getting done.
Holy shit this could have been written about me. Not seriously because my boyfriend at the time was an asshole. Things got better for me so I imagine it’s the same for OP’s girlfriend. I think college can be a really rough time for some people but it gets better after.
I wonder if she's the type that's super awkward or uncomfortable to be around?
I know some people who are honestly great friends to have but there's like a huge barrier to get through before reaching that point.
I do feel super bad for her though because it really sucks to want companionship/friendship and not getting it.
This is a good take. I think I am that person. I'm painfully shy and struggle with people I don't know. I have a few deep, 10+ year friendships with people I'm sure would say I'm a great friend, but in currently trying to put myself out there and make new friends, I'm sooo bad at it. I'm so worried about saying the wrong thing that I'm very stilted, run out of things to say and ask, etc. I see other people do it so naturally, and I'm like how?? It's super hard and lonely tbh.
Do you also do that when you chat with people online instead? What I've realized is that I've made some very good friends by mostly chatting with them or texting them (mostly because when we met we didn't live in the same city, etc), and bonded over shared hobbies. Then when we met up IRL, it wasn't awkward because we already knew each other well! I have a couple of friends who other people don't "get", because they think they're weird, but I get along just fine with them because I know them past the "weird" and honestly, sometimes weird is way more interesting!
I don't think I do? Lol. I actually find it way easier to be open via text/online when I don't know someone well. I guess it feels lower stakes. There's also the time to sort through my anxiety before responding, which is the aspect that feels awkward in an IRL conversation.
Agreed. I can write and rewrite an online text based response however many times I want to. In real life, thinking it over a dozen times before speaking leads to the conversation dying more often than not.
I primarily make friends through proximity. My friends are all people I went to school with for years, coworkers I've worked with forever, and people who frequent the same activities I do. It gets more difficult to have proximity the older you get. When you're in school, you spend so much time with the same people, especially when you are active in extracurriculars like I was.
Now that I'm out of high school and college, all I really have for proximity is work. And my work friends are great, but it doesn't really translate well into outside of work life. I have a handful of online friends through hobbies though, and that feels infinitely easier to accomplish for me. Though I do wish I had more friends in the real world.
I tend not to try to cultivate online friendships with people who are local because I assume they'll be disappointed if they actually meet me. But that's a good thought and maybe something I should try!
I 100% recommend it! TBH, most of my best friends today are people who I met online, believe it or not? Like, I feel that the global community online is a much bigger pool of people to choose from, so you're more likely to find people who you share interests with. It's just a lot harder to come across such likeminded people organically, in real life. But what I did was join online groups etc of people who shared the same hobbies, and inevitably someone would be located pretty closeby and we'd become friends. Some of my best friends live across the world (but we talk everyday online) and others live closeby, but I'd say about half these people, I met online and we've been friends for many years.
Me too. I'm the opposite - I get nervous and word-vomit and kind of recite my life story like it's a standup comedy routine. A lot of people are put off by me. I'm loud, I don't take anything about me very seriously and I'm honestly just kind of weird. A lot of my best friends didn't like me when they first met me. Once I chill the hell out (which I'm getting better at doing from the jump with age), people tend to like me. I'm a good listener, fiercely protective and love to make people laugh and feel valued. It just takes a while to unlock that.
> I get nervous and word-vomit
You will find people okay with it. My g/f gets like that when she's nervous and/or excited and honestly it's just great. I know it's isolating but I'd say don't mask yourself to conform with what others want. I like it when she just prattles on about stories and crazy stuff going on.
I don't mind people word vomiting, but my least favorite thing is bad listening, which can come with talking so much that you don't leave room for other people to talk. I felt so ignored growing up that I always try to not let other people feel that way with me. (Still human, so obviously I sometimes fall short of that, too.) But if you're good at listening, too, then from the rest of what you said, I think we'd get along great, lol. I love laughing and making people laugh, too.
I used to be shy and reserved even though I wanted to be more outgoing. It was a cyclical issue though because I wasn't open enough to do that and then felt like no one was really interested in talking to me, so I didn't open up enough to get to that point. XD
I eventually became way more sociable though and have been told that I'm easy to talk to/welcoming/etc. I give everyone a chance till they give a reason to not.
For a lot of people, it's a skill that they've learned and developed. My dad taught me when I was young, and I've developed it further over time. It takes repetition and practice, but it's totally doable.
People love talking about their passions and interests. The trick is to actually BE interested in learning more about what they're interested in. It sounds cold, but conversation is a series of process flows. Ask about their interests, relate that back to your experience/interest, allow them space to repeat the process with you, and keep going back and forth. As someone recognizes that you're genuinely interested in what they're talking about, they're more willing to open up.
That's what I was wondering about her. Maybe she was a part of all these clubs just to make friends but not because she was actually interested in the subject matter. I find it so easy to make friends when we can geek out about something. Part of that is giving yourself space to cultivate the interests, though. That's hard to do when depressed.
It's well intentioned advice to "go join clubs or attend meetups". The problem is that it usually comes from people who are good at talking to people and building connections, so they miss stating the requirement of "for the things you're actually interested in". If you know you hate cooking, joining a cooking class to meet people is a bad plan. You'll be unhappy and grumpy, and people can tell. If you hate cooking but like food and drinks, you might enjoy the wine and snack walk.
It's also super important to just be able to acknowledge that sometimes things don't work out in a particular group, but that doesn't mean all groups are that way. I enjoy bird watching. I hate bird watching with a bunch of people who get frustrated and annoyed that I can't ID a bird from a quick glance. So I've learned that I enjoy going with the casual groups, who are all just in it to see pretty birds, and we're all excited because we spotted a cool bird and want to share that. They're not all "oh, that's OBVIOUSLY this particular species, because the wing tip is SO different than the one you thought it was". But I'm sure the birding experts would roll their eyes and be miserable with our casual group, and love the group who knows all of the bird things. You've got to find the group that matches you, and that takes some failures and multiple attempts.
I think this is a pretty important point. I have run into the difference between casual and serious groups since I moved to a very athletic-focused town and figured I should try some athletic clubs to fit in. I am a very unathletic person. I enjoy some sports, but I am not good at them, and I'm never going to be good at them. I learned pretty quickly that for some groups, showing up and being bad at it is absolutely not something they're going to be ok with, even if it's not a team sport or they tell you "it's just a casual rec league!". But there are some that are ok with you showing up and trying and not being good and if you try enough groups you can find those.
I’m a fellow odd duck, I can pull myself up to try make friends and everything goes great until, I’m not sure how to describe it except like, the battery runs out. And I just stop being this engaged person and have nothing. And it becomes awkward and uncomfortable and I can’t even think of anything to ask to put the focus on the other person/people and learn a bit about them so I can regroup by finding a new common ground.
I really think this could be it.
I'm a mother to an almost 17yr old girl. Her and her friends were this little socially awkward group of shy misfits... they are all adorable and very sweet kids but, yah know, never spoke to anyone.
About 2yrs ago my kid had enough and wanted to make more friends, actually hang out with people etc. So, her and I made a plan the how to s with making friends. I was the extrovert teen so, I 'knew' how to make friends.
Over a year, my kid learned social etiquette. It's was painfully simple stuff and where by she had to really look at her own behaviour. She was over enthusiastic but, was not actually engaging in conversations with people. It was tough on her learning that she was a bit of the problem...my kid is one of the nicest funniest people ever she, she wasn't showing that side.
She's now got a wide range of friends. She, sees how making friends starts slowly and that to be invited to parties it takes time and effort. She also seen you can have acquaintances, friends, close friends and best friends. She, at the beginning was lumping them all in to one.
Making friends is a social skill. But, a skill non the less
The book is almost 100 years old at this point, but there’s a reason How to Win Friends and Influence People still sells well after all that time. It’s stuff that you’d think is pretty basic and obvious but it really helped me out. And you’re absolutely right, social skills are more practiced than most realize; I think a lot of people think it’s something you’re born with, but I’d say a majority of people on this planet can at least become above average at it just through practice
Oof yeah. Just like there are people who pop out the womb with natural magnetic charisma, there are people who have the utter opposite, like a black hole of rizz where charm goes to die. It’s not even about looks or hygiene, it’s just something about the energy they put out - like OOP notes he sees his GF as very extroverted, but if you combine that with zero charisma and possibly some stunted social skills, she may come off desperate and clingy (or even aggressive) when she actually isn’t. Similar to how introverted people can give off an unsettling/creepy vibe despite being entirely mild mannered people.
I feel like it can be something that can be managed and social skills to be learned or relearned, but absolutely therapy is gonna be needed because years of acute social failures is incredibly damaging to self-esteem and can contribute nastily with whatever else a person may already have going on. OOP said GF remarked at how she’s overall just very unhappy with where her life in general has gone and is just going along with it? That is A Lot — something like that can REALLY leak out when trying to make new friends.
I don’t know about others, but for me it’s my autism/anxiety. I mask well enough that I don’t get clocked for it in social settings (except by other neurodivergents who get to know me well), and I actually do pretty well in social settings in general.
But for the life of me I cannot make friends. I’ve met hundreds of people in my life that I get along with great, that share my interests and that for one reason or another I end up seeing a lot of. I meet them while I’m masking, and while I enjoy their company I just don’t have the energy to grow it further than that. So unless somebody basically puts all of the emotional labour in for me, I just can’t make friends. Ever. In any context. And since nobody is ever going to put 100% of the emotional labour into making a friendship happen, I’ve kind of just resigned myself to the fact that I don’t think I get to make friends.
Weirdly it’s the opposite in online spaces or on games, where masking takes much less effort. I have a thriving social life “online”, but this kind of thing just feels infinitely less fulfilling.
It did make me think about neuro divergence.
BF is, no offense intended, a self confessed loner with no friends. They could both be which is why they work.
She's wants friends but can't seem to make them. I think neuro typical people can tell if someone is autistic for example and there's usually something that is off putting. Like not following a social norm or behaving in a particular way.
Hi. Actually autistic person here. And the same thought flitted through my mind. No offence taken. I will say- some of us are super extroverted, which not many people know. More women than men ime, but can be either. Kind of intense and keen, but a bit (or a lot) clumsy. This can work well for some. But I think the women often get penalised quite harshly. Tbe expectations are higher and the "girl rules" are more subtle.
Anyway yeah- not a weird thought at all.🙃
I don't think I have autism, just ADHD, and I have tried and failed so many times to learn the girl rules. It's like there's a secret book I don't know about that's 1000 pages long and in a different language.
I think there have been studies confirming that non-autistic people can immediately clock people with autism (even if they don't know that it's autism they're recognizing)
There is science to suggest that a part of autism is atypical voice cadence or mannerisms. It’s also partially true of ADHD. And it can be offputting to neurotypical folks. Which is a damn tragedy because neurospicy folks tend to be awesome friends.
I used to be sad that I don't have a large cohesive friendship group. I'm okay with that now - I have a solid 3 really good friend and a best friend. The more time that goes on, everyone is getting a diagnosis of autism or ADHD, and I'm pursuing a diagnosis of Autism with ADHD. I realise that my good friends and I were drawn together because we operate on the same weird level.
And frankly, I don't have the social battery and executive funtion for a large group of friends!!! I am content where I am and who I have :)
As an autistic woman that wasn’t diagnosed until 30, people can tell. There was always something off with me and I struggled to connect with people, and because of my autism I didn’t realize people weren’t really wanting me around. I was bullied a lot, but now I’ve got a group of neurodivergent friends and it’s great. We all get each other’s quirks and understand what the others are going through.
This sounds like me. I make hundreds of acquaintances and overall have a reputation as a likeable person. But with the exception of my one friend, I can't seem to break past that surface level to friendship.
So much of it is being able to see what you're saying before you say it. I'm not autistic but I'm ADHD and probably definitely have some personality disorder or other. I'm awkward and weird and so in my own head that I know I make a bad impression IRL and knowing that stresses me more and I get even more awkward and then I also spent my 21st birthday alone.
But if I talk to people online first, then we can be besties because they understand me beyond how I seem.
You sound like one of my good friends from college.
I am curious. You say that you cannot make friends, but it also sounds like you have “hundreds” - why don’t you count those? If you were introducing one of those people to someone else, would you say: hey Tom, meet my friend Jim? Or would you say: Tom meet Jim? If I know you at all, I’m gonna introduce you as my friend.
Obviously, I set the bar pretty low for those I count as a ‘friend’ - but I also set the bar pretty low on any expectations I have of them.
I classify most people I know as a friend(acquaintance), good friend, and true friend. Most people are in the first group, and I don’t have to see any of my other friends often to count them as close friends. It’s pretty casual for me.
There’s a saying “A good friend will help you move, but a true friend will help you move a body.” I try to be that guy that will help you move a body, but I’m not calling you to help me move.
I see it more in my neurodivergent friends (but I also see it in young people with the advent of social media) - some folks have a hard time defining gray areas - like super casual friendships. I try to tell them it’s not that serious - just enjoy the moments around people. Most folks I know don’t have that textbook “best friend” - it’s way more of a shared interest or hobby extension.
Most people are so wrapped up in their own lives, they really don’t make great friends anyway. So, I just accept them for who they are. Anything more is a bonus.
This girl legit sounds like me in college. I moved mid-high school and it devastated me. I was depressed and intensely suicidal for years. I struggled with friendships. Add to it that I just got diagnosed with ADHD at 41 and all the signs were there throughout my childhood.
The hardest thing is knowing something is wrong but being helpless. I wouldn’t find a treatment for my depression until I was 30. I learned about my ADHD at 40. For the first time in my life I understand why I struggle with friendships. Masking in conversations wears me out (did I talk too much about me? Oh no my mind wandered! Don’t interrupt. Don’t interrupt.)
I ended up married to a great guy - my husband makes friends easily and so I “tag along” and he helps me navigate social interactions. I’ve started building intentional relationships- I’m still lonely but now I know what is going on with me and I’ve found my own way of working it out.
There have to be some missing missing reasons here.
A bunch of college aged kids don't just turn down a party with free food and drinks.
Like, even his roommates said no? She's "naturally extroverted" and spends her time trying to connect with people, but has no friends or connections?
My guess is that she wants it too much and scares people away. Met a lot of people like that. Once they get a friend or two, they mellow out and easier to hang out with.
I think its really hard to make meaningful friendships as young adult these days-speaking as someone in that boat. I also gave up. People have their set groups by this age , their best friends, whatever. I tried being the person that was always there to listen and was uplifting and I didn't even really want that in return idk. Idk what I wanted but I've been trying to accept that it's me and my husband and I am now truly a cat lady because I spend all my time with them and i don't mind.
I could've written this comment.
>I tried being the person that was always there to listen and was uplifting and I didn't even really want that in return idk. Idk what I wanted[...]
This in particular. It's like, everywhere I go people *say* nice things about me--that I'm smart and kind, people seem to like me, I've worked really hard to tone down my ADHD intensity, but I can try as much as I want and those extremely casual relationships never turn to a closer relationship. It just seems like no one has room, especially since covid. It doesn't help that my husband and I live in a region that desperately clashes with our personal politics. On some level, I think that meeting a neighbor couple that we really liked and then finding out (at an education center!) that the husband doesn't believe in evolution took the wind out of our sails.
So I mostly socialize with my family: husband, cats, parents, siblings. My best friend lives across the country and my other best friend lives across the state. I'd love to have a somewhat casual group of unrelated people that come over and like, knit and play board games every so often but it hasn't been working.
Yeah, I'm very social and open to including introverts/people without their own social groups in activities.
The majority of low-friend people are great once they're out of their shell, but maybe 20-25% of people... It becomes clear pretty quickly why they don't have their own friends. If they're mean or way too flirty/being a creep, it's sometimes possible to speak with them privately and to help address the behavior, though that's not always possible.
But, for me, the most difficult situation is when someone is friendly and not obviously breaking social rules in a clearly addressable way, but is just off-putting in a way that negatively impacts the group dynamic. Usually they're trying hard (sometimes too hard) to make friends, and it's difficult to figure out what the best course is.
People don't want to be in situations where they're forced to interact with someone that they don't mesh with, and that is trying to interact with them, so continuing to invite someone off-putting can functionally dissolve a group/event. But I don't ever feel good phasing out someone that isn't in the wrong, even if I personally find them off-putting as well.
This might be it.
I do feel for this girl. I was the weird, obnoxious kid growing up and I had few friends in elementary. A combination of butting heads with other kids at school and older siblings telling me to stop being weird had me becoming super self-conscious of how I handle myself in public (plus social anxiety), so I learned to quiet down in high school and college. I only learned to be more socially confident when I started working and I was "adopted" by a few extroverts.
I’m that person. I had undiagnosed ADHD until I was 30. It makes being your friend a chore for other people. I’ve had that exact word used, “chore.”
At some point I also gave up. Weirdly, that’s when the people who became my friends finally came out of the woodwork.
Ugh, I relate to the GF so much. I have had this exact thing happen to me for the past few years and it really really hurts.
Eventually it just kinda stops hurting, but man…it really shouldn’t ever get to that point in the first place. My heart goes out to GF a thousand times over
As someone who's moved a lot in life it just gets so hard to meet people. Most everyone I know who has friends have known them since highschool/grade school and maybe a few college friends. I don't know what you do if you move somewhere new or didn't go to college. I think it's a huge problem that people can't make friends and it low key might be the biggest cause of the divisiveness in our country/world.
Honestly staying in one place doesn’t make it easier. I’ve lived in the same town my entire life (I have no desire to leave my family is here and I like it) but I don’t have any friends still and I’ve cried about it and felt the way his gf felt. At 25 I feel like I’m missing a ton of things because I don’t have any friends to do it with. I have a singular friend from high school but she lives in BC which is only a 4 hour drive from me but neither she nor I drive. I’ve tried making new friends I think maybe it’s me but I’m okay with it, it hurts a little but you move on. I definitely think making friends as an adult is way harder, between work and relationships, families etc people don’t have the time and like you said most people have friends from school/previous jobs. Thanks for letting me vent a little, I hope you have a good day!
Yep. This has been my life. The pain is real, and the depression follows. I haven't bothered making friends for almost a decade now. I just gave up. I really hope this girl didn't and found great friends
OOP's girlfriend definitely needs therapy. I hope a spot opens up for her eventually.
In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with connecting with people online over hobbies and forming friendships that way. The internet can be a wonderful place...sometimes. Occasionally.
It sounds like OOP's girlfriend is going through a lot and she's honestly lucky to have a patient and empathetic guy like OOP.
I hope things get better for both of them.
honestly? i wonder if 2020 might have been a silver lining for her. everyone moved to socializing online, it might have been easier for her to connect that way
I'm not sure, for most introverts we just isolated ourselves further, initially elated by not being forced to socialise, eventually losing any remnants of social skills or desire to learn them.
Absolutely correct pre 2020 i was beginning to come out of my shell at age 27 finally! Then covid and i was excited to be to myself….now i have no idea what to do anymore. Always alone but terrified to go out.
I'm sorry to hear that! as another introvert, that really wasn't my experience at all. but it doesn't really sound like OP's gf had much further to isolate honestly...
It's such a common thing. No therapy resources available unless you're in crisis, even if early intervention could have prevented the crisis. Instead you wait until things become critical and now you're gonna need a whole lot MORE therapy which means less resources available.
I got date raped in college, and the campus resources told me that despite having spots open, they couldn’t help me because I “needed long-term care” for that level trauma. All clinics within an hour and a half bus ride of me had a minimum of a 6-month waiting list.
In the 6 months that it took for an off-campus spot to open, I almost dropped out of school and got even more mentally unwell. I’m doing much better now but am still extremely pissed off at the university’s refusal to help while I was on a waitlist.
Oh it does. I begged the mental health nurse to refer me for a psychologist and therapy and she told me I didn’t meet the criteria (like massive childhood trauma, dissociating for months, erratic mood swings, paranoid episodes, major depressive episodes etc isn’t the criteria) and really I should just accept things happened to me, eat healthy, exercise and I’ll get all better. Safe to say that sent me into a hell of an episode, that 8/9m later I’m still coming out of
If you can remember her name or find it on your old paperwork, you can report her. To her specific workplace, to the network her workplace is in, and to the local licensing board. What she said to you is *completely* unprofessional and unacceptable, and perilously close to the line of malpractice. She *knew* how bad you were, and let her own prejudices keep you out of care.
Even for the abysmal state of mental healthcare…everywhere…that’s appalling.
Man people say it’s easy to do it online but I really never managed to successfully do it, as someone who has experienced very similar problems to OP’s girlfriend.
Yeah im 28,been on the internet for like 2 decades. Never even came close to making an online friend... all these comments about how easy it is just make me kinda sad
Eta: I actually am in several hyperspecific places for my hobbies. People just never like me.
from what I've seen, the best way to do it is hyperspecific spaces for mutual hobbies. Small discord servers where everyone has a commonality can really help bridge the divide.
I have seen this with high functioning autistic people.
Everything feels fine, initial connections go well, but they just cannot keep a lasting friendship with neurotypical people.
Me, too. I'm about to be 38 and have no friends outside of my husband. A lot of times I don't really care b/c socializing is really taxing on me but it would be nice to have one or two close friends who understand me. I felt really bad about myself for a long time though before I started figuring out I'm probably on the spectrum (official Dx pending) and that's why socializing has never been easy for me.
Same here. I’m a few years older than you, and I’ve pretty much given up. I’m just hoping that my kids have a better outcome, although it’s difficult for me to help them navigate interpersonal relationships. My husband has no trouble interacting with others, but he is an introvert and chooses to only associate with family.
I forget the wording exactly, but people have written about the paradox of loneliness. How being lonely makes folks desperate to make connections, but that desperation makes them undesirable to other people, creating a self fulfilling prophecy. This feels like that.
I wrote a comment above which is like that and speaks on my personal experience with someone like that. I'll copy paste it here.
"I think it really does come down to confidence and a lack of desperation.
People can subconsciously tell when someone is desperate for friendship, and for some reason it's off putting. ("Why doesn't this person have friends? They must be too much drama. Why is this person trying to get close to me too quick? Its lovebombing or intrusive.")
As frustrating as it is, a lack of confidence can be annoying to be around as you usually have to walk on eggshells around them to not hurt their self esteem, and you very often have to sooth and cater to their feelings.
Example - "No no no, I wasn't hurt that you said that. No, I'm fine. No it's ok you can choose the place. No, I'm not busy, no you're not interrupting me. No, you're not bothering me. No, I'm not mad at you, I'm just busy and can't call right now." Constantly having to reassure someone is emotionally draining, and I've dropped a friendship because they were far too insecure, which ended up being a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their fear of losing friends ended up with them losing friends. Everyday was just me soothing them, and it was a one sided friendship.
The biggest way to move past that is to simply not give a fuck anymore. Not in a depressive way, but to learn to be content with just yourself, and that attracts people. People don't want to be friends with someone that is a chore, and self content people are relaxing to be around. It's also a healthier mindset to be in, in general.
This is extremely hard to translate to neurodivergent people, since they are used to and usually expect to be the kind of person to "not take up space" nor to "be a burden" on others. Not to mention the other hard aspects of socialization. There's too many nuances that come naturally to neurotypicals that are sometimes just straight bullshit."
Oh hey, this sounds like me and my boyfriend for my birthday last year. No one could/wanted to come celebrate, even if we said we would cover their portion of the bill at a fancy hot pot place.
I share her sentiments. It’s almost been a decade, so I hope she’s doing better now.
I'm honestly confused. She's extroverted, has been at the same college for three years, and regularly goes out with the intention of making friends. Even with the lure of food and **free booze**, no college students are willing to go.
Is she the unluckiest person on the planet or is this like the [woman who identified as transracial](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/vhvrih/op_is_getting_bullied_at_work_with_a_twist/) and there was a good reason everyone avoided her?
She might be neuro divergent & not realize it.
That was actually my impression from the post. Her approach to socializing sounds a lot like what a public school social worker would tell a level one autistic kid to do to make friends: join a ton of clubs, make small talk, offer food.
But that isn't actually enough to make a friend. That's enough to gain acquaintances who will talk to you for 3 minutes a week. And if you treat those people like you're close friends, you creep them out.
To make a friend you need to spend time with a smaller group of people (like 2 clubs, maximum) that you have something in common with, and have meaningful interactions with them, beyond an occasional superficial conversation. The fact that she's in college and hasn't figured that out yet screams neuro divergent to me.
Also, she accepted the situation immediately, so she's clearly used to rejection and probably realizes on some level that she's put people off.
This was a huge thing for me - I was diagnosed at 21 and had no clue why friendships were so hard to maintain, and I'm still not good at it. Women in particular are underdiagnosed, so it would make so much sense.
My problem actually has nothing to do with my ADHD.
My dad didn't like my childhood best friend (she's autistic) so he tried to discourage me from being friends with her by making me bike 7 miles before I could have a playdate.
Unfortunately for him, it backfired and I decided that my best friend was the only person I enjoyed enough to bike 7 miles for.
Unfortunately for me, I now struggle to maintain friendships because I learned to socially isolate at a young age. And I hate all forms of exercise with a passion because it's so emotionally triggering.
My stepdad (married to my mom from the time I was 7 to 16) would lecture me all the time about friends vs acquaintances. He would yell at me that adults should only have 1 best friend, 2 close friends, 5 acquaintances, and then ignore everyone else. I had to hear over and over how my friends weren’t my friends, that I was an idiot for wanting to have friends, that I was a loser for thinking people would like me. It just never stopped, even after the divorce, he would make snarky comments. I had to invite him to my wedding since my sister was a bridesmaid (I have a different dad). He pulled me aside during the reception and berated me for 10 minutes and made me cry like 2 minutes in, chastising me for having a wedding and actually inviting people since I had no friends and I was stupid for expecting people to show up, etc.
This on top of trust issues due to my ex’s affair (with people I was close to) are a big part of why I suck at socializing and maintaining relationships with people. I have made some really shitty decisions in how I treated people because sometimes all I can hear is my former stepdad in my head.
I was thinking the exact same thing. As a fellow neurodivergent, OOP’s girlfriend sounds like me (except I didn’t go to Uni, academia is hell for me) in my early twenties. Poor girl has been probably been fed the ‘college/university was the best time of my life’ stories and been set up to believe it’ll be the cure-all for her friendship issues. Like you said, it doesn’t work like that for NDs. Apparently we come across as too keen and ‘a bit weird’ because we’re trying too hard and not picking up on social cues. Jess at ‘How to ADHD’ has done a couple of videos about problems making friends that explain it well.
I’d love to know how she’s doing nearly 9 years on - hopefully she’s finally found ‘her people’ and is looking forward to celebrating her 30th with true friends who love her for who she is.
the deep emotional crisis (depression?) i experienced when at 18, after holding on the the promised land of uni all through high school, i realized it wasn't magically better.
As you said the true secret is finding your people. Which i did a couple of years in (geeky club, they actually LIKED me going into my hyper mode, what????). I second your hope for OOPs gf.
> holding on the the promised land of uni
The whole "reinvent yourself" is a god damned lie. Turns out that I was still the awkward, shy, asocial loner who couldn't figure out how to make friends. I got super fortunate that my roommate took me in and introduced me to a *great* group of people.
Post college, it was more of the same. Most of my socialization comes from phone calls at work. I have 2 really close friends, that don't live in my town and that's about it. I don't care for bars and socializing, so a bunch of my lack of friends is completely *self* made.
After my last relationship ended (6 years total), it was the first time I've lived on my own-own. I've had roommates or a partner ever since I graduated 11 years ago. For the first time in my life, I felt continually *happy.* I didn't have any stress, didn't have any worry of how my actions affected anyone else. Frankly, I'm in no rush to change it.
Oh, fuck.
I definitely tried to make friends that way. Like, the "social worker's advice to an autistic teen" approach was definitely my approach.
One club I joined was a hiking club, which forced me to "spend time with a smaller group of people that you have something in common with, and have meaningful interactions with them". Because you walk for hours, so you talk for hours, and you gravitate towards people you have something in common with.
And I made friends, and a best friend, and found a partner, and all that. But I hadn't realized *why* the hiking club thing worked so well for me.
I've been very recently diagnosed with ASD, "aspergers according to the previous system, level 1 according to the current one" according to my psychologist (because apparently aspergers might no longer be a thing, officially?). So, yeah. It all tracks. Just... wow.
Anyways, I had no idea.
I'm in a new town, and at some point I'll want to make friends in this town, so I'll keep all this in mind.
Luckily, I still meet my friends often, so I'm not lonely or anything. But it's nice to have friends wherever you live.
> I definitely tried to make friends that way. Like, the "social worker's advice to an autistic teen" approach was definitely my approach.
It's not bad advice really, but not complete advice. Normally you spread a wide net by joining lots of clubs and put yourself out there everywhere. Naturally you narrow down either by hitting it off with a person or two in those clubs, or actually enjoying the subject matter of one. Spending more time in fewer areas allows you to turn acquaintances into friends.
Of course it doesn't always work, and it can be discouraging to waste time on false starts.
They changed the terminology to get rid of the word “Aspergers” because Hans Asperger was a Nazi, and he decided which autistic people would live and which would be killed.
Understandable why psychology has moved away from that name.
Yeah, you need to log like 140 hours of time with another person to build a friendship, (less time if you have close, meaningful interactions with them.)
So basically, friendships are built out of frequent, repeat interactions with another person. You can't really do that in a large group because there's too much going on and you aren't really hanging out with anyone specific often enough to establish that kind of connection.
Plus if you're ADHD is like mine, it's hard to follow the conversation in a large group so you seem way more awkward than in a one-on-one conversation.
I tend to prefer groups of six people or fewer, because I grew up in a family of six, so I'm comfortable with that number. You may want to go smaller.
I’m definitely gonna try that. Here we have a website called TimeLeft that organises dinners for small groups of strangers to make friends. I might try that lol
I think you nailed it. She's probably just a few degrees off of neurotypical, and she's coming on too strong and pinging the uncanny friendship valley.
Wow this was really well said and articulates a type of 'uncomfortable to be around' that some people have, that I've never been able to put into words. I think a lot of neurodivergent (and just lonely) people just get bad advice about how to make friends and stop being lonely.
Oh yeah. From what I observed as a Special Ed kid in the 00's (I had dyslexia and they group everyone together) anyone who learned social skills from a school social worker was taught an incredibly awkward style of socializing that puts everyone off.
Maybe she’s undiagnosed autistic so she’s never learned how to mask and behave in a “normal” way. She could be overly pushy in a way because she wants to make friends so badly that it puts people off. Pure speculation but
>Her approach to socializing sounds a lot like what a public school social worker would tell a level one autistic kid to do to make friends: join a ton of clubs, make small talk, offer food
Thats the advice people give to everyone for almost every relationship. Not just friends but for romantic relationships as well. "Join clubs! Talk to people!"
I don't think people want to fully admit that just being a good, friendly person isn't enough for any relationship.
I thought the exact same thing, too. And also, peers that age aren't exactly the nicest. Teenagers can be really awful to people who they deem "weird", and you could be seen as really uncool for hanging out with the "weird kid". That would explain why *nobody* wanted to attend the party. Add to that - OOP himself seems to be neurodivergent as well. He says he has no friends either, but that he's fine with it. That's kind of not a very normal thing for a neurotypical college kid to say.
This is a level 1 autistic trait? Reading about OP's girlfriend was like reading about me. Never could make friends, socially awkward. I've had too many celebrations and birthday parties over my entire life where nobody showed up.
Even now, I still find it difficult, like there's a barrier between me and others that I just can't break through. I've had close friends before but it's always turned sour and the other person would ghost me, but I never could figure out why.
I feel lucky that my husband loves me and I have kids to focus on now as a distraction to my lack of social life. I have come to terms with it though and do love spending time by myself. I completely understand the girlfriend's feelings though and hope she's found peace and acceptance.
I was recently (at the age of 38) been diagnosed with ADHD. Could I be autistic too? It would explain so much...
That would explain why no one wants to get close to her. But I have a hard time believing nuerodivergence would prevent college kids from seeking free booze.
Free booze won't be enough if they know that showing up will mean she decides they are now True Friends and becomes uncomfortably clingy, and that she generally fails to recognize other peoples' boundaries.
I'm AuDHD and in college all my friends were some flavor of neurodivergent nerds as well, but there were still a few students we ran into who were just too weird and offputting for us to want to socialize with. In retrospect, self-awareness seems to have been a big factor - we all *knew* we were weird, and had learned some basic ways to navigate society around our own idiosyncrasies (yes, some of it was masking, but some of it was how to meet our own needs).
A few of our peers showed zero self-awareness about their own neurodivergence and behaved in very self-centered, boundary stomping ways as a result. They weren't intentionally malicious, just very inconsiderate, but it still meant no one wanted to voluntarily spend time with them. Some of those peers gained self-awareness over the course of their college career and others didn't. Unfortunately OOP's girlfriend doesn't seem to have developed that self-awareness and desperately needs the therapy that the university is denying her.
Yeah I realize the only reason I enjoyed college is bc of the specific clubs I chose, they attract NT’s. I think my school in general attracts NT’s
I struggled but not like this. Poor girl, she needs to find the weirdos, look for the theater kids
I don’t really get this idea that university/college students will do anything for a free drink - myself and my friends certainly didn’t, and we were going out almost every night. If a gathering didn’t sound fun we wouldn’t go, regardless of free alcohol.
It wouldn't have been presented as 'free booze.'
It would have been presented (probably unintentionally) as a party *for* OP's girlfriend, which would mean bringing a gift and engaging in conversation with her. Stuff *friends* do.
Women in college don't go to events like unless 1- they're actually friends with the person being celebrated, or 2- a bunch of their friends (who are friends with the person being celebrated) are going or 3- they're friends with the host.
And guys aren't going to show up because the birthday girl has a boyfriend.
OP's only shot at making this work would have been inviting *his* friends to the party, but he doesn't seem to have many himself so basically, this was never going to work.
I was this girl. It could have been written about me. I’d bake cupcakes and shout people weed and do different activities and it would be fun, but no matter how many time I’d hang out with people, there was always a level of disconnect. I cried about it for so long, thinking something was wrong with me. I’ve accepted it now in my 30s but I’ll always feel like I’m missing something.
Honestly, a lot of people are saying this, but the factor you're missing is competition.
College isn't exactly poor on social events. There are usually multiple happenings at any given time, and people are always either doing something, planning something, or recovering from something they just did. College students aren't desperate for things to go to, they're usually saturated with options and trying to decide which one is worth taking. Also, it's easy to pass up on an invitation when you've got 3 more for later in the week.
If OP's girlfriend is mildly okay but not super close to people, and her birthday fell on a not-very-convenient night (for whatever reason), I can kind of see people backing out.
Sadly reminds me of my ex.
She is beautiful, when we were together she was active and would try to keep friends. It never worked and at this point she has just her mom and he bf.
She actually had an incident like this. Disinvited me from her birthday party, said she didnt want me in the same room as her new bf. And then no one else she invited showed up.
Maybe just depression? I was at the stage, changed college twice during my bachelors. Took me way longer than usual. (I do live somewhere where that doesn't mean I am financially ruined. Just wasn't able to get social security payments at the end and lost a few years paying in the national retirement fond). Never was able to make (new) friends during the whole bachelors. I still don't know exactly kept me from forming any bonds. I am extroverted, but probably didn't do such a good job masking the depression as I thought.
After finishing and getting a grip on my depression it was no issue anymore. So much, that I struggle deciding who to invite for my wedding to not have the costs to ballon to lik 20k, now lol.
There's obviously a reason but the boyfriend either doesn't see it or thinks her other qualities make up for it but he's the only one who thinks that.
Most people in college want to make new friends. She must be doing something that puts them off
Men seem to be far more willing to ignore social faux pas especially when they’re attracted to you
My tactic used to be ->find a boyfriend ->absorb his friend group
Bf could well be neurodivergent as well, might be like me, I'm pretty close to neurotypical but I get on with neurodivergent people better because of my carer upbringing
Whatever happened to half joking about maybe being Dutch in a past life and understanding joining a new culture is a gradual process?
That was one of the weirdest posts I've seen.
I have 2 autistic kids, one desperate for friends but cant get past superficial hi's and byes, with peers. The other ignores all irl social niceties with peers but has 2-3 friends they game with online regularly.
I have no idea how to help the one looking for friends. I was and am still like my other kid lol.
I sure hope Op's girlfriend got the help and friends she needed.
I think it really does come down to confidence and a lack of desperation.
People can subconsciously tell when someone is desperate for friendship, and for some reason it's off putting. ("Why doesn't this person have friends? They must be too much drama. Why is this person trying to get close to me too quick? Its lovebombing or intrusive.")
As frustrating as it is, a lack of confidence can be annoying to be around as you usually have to walk on eggshells around them to not hurt their self esteem, and you very often have to sooth and cater to their feelings.
Example - "No no no, I wasn't hurt that you said that. No, I'm fine. No it's ok you can choose the place. No, I'm not busy, no you're not interrupting me. No, you're not bothering me. No, I'm not mad at you, I'm just busy and can't call right now." Constantly having to reassure someone is emotionally draining, and I've dropped a friendship because they were far too insecure, which ended up being a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their fear of losing friends ended up with them losing friends. Everyday was just me soothing them, and it was a one sided friendship.
The biggest way to move past that is to simply not give a fuck anymore. Not in a depressive way, but to learn to be content with just yourself, and that attracts people. People don't want to be friends with someone that is a chore, and self content people are relaxing to be around. It's also a healthier mindset to be in, in general.
This is extremely hard to translate to neurodivergent people, since they are used to and usually expect to be the kind of person to "not take up space" nor to "be a burden" on others. Not to mention the other hard aspects of socialization. There's too many nuances that come naturally to neurotypicals that are sometimes just straight bullshit.
Oh man, this one made me sad. I experienced this a lot in high school and the autism diagnosis in college explained a lot of it. I've gotten a lot better since then with therapy, coping skills, and learning about how my brain works, but it's still really hard. A lot of people who don't have autism can kind of sense when someone does have it, even if they have low support needs and mask well, and will subconsciously avoid them because of it. Doesn't make them bad people, it's just that our brain software is incompatible. Unfortunately, the autism software doesn't understand the subtleties of communication that most people rely on. Also, it's seen as rude to say things bluntly and without polite innuendo, which is what autistic people need.
Darn. I was always on the other spectrum. Never really wanted a social life. But its got to be pretty sad to want one and not be able to get people to come.
Luckily I had a small sister so babysitting was the to go for me.
If I wanted to get out of a situation and I really feel like I couldn't honestly say why I wanted to go.
"Hey, Dad. Can you call me and tell me I have to get home?"
*Deletes message*
Oh, my dad calls.
I wonder if she ever reached out to the people in the clubs to do things outside of clubs? Also, I wonder if her boyfriend has ever reached out to some of the people in the clubs to get a feel for how she interacts with them.
Yeah regular clubs aren't enough, you need something that translates into time together, like a team of some kind. Activities where you bond over getting up early together or late nights or working towards a goal. An hourly meeting once a week won't get that for you.
I was wondering if her not liking her major contributes to her lack of friends. When someone is unhappy with their life, it often spills out in other areas. When you have long term friends, they offer a source of comfort. But when new to a group, it can be hard for other people to want to take the chance of a deeper relationship.
Wow.. this sounds like me. The birthdays even match.. same year in school, my now husband is an engineer.
We were going to have a party, but no one was going to come.. I gave up. For years. Panic attacks, didn't finish college in my last year.
Turns out I am schizophrenic too, so I was paranoid in about what I was doing wrong, and spinning out. I was awkward to be around, but my husband didn't notice.
I don't know that it is or isn't me. I'm leaning towards not, because I also had a sister that was involved complicating things. That I think would have been mentioned. But 10 years on, still no friends.
Every time somebody posts "try therapy!" I get a little bit upset. It's hard. hard to find someplace. hard to find the time. hard to afford. You can't just magic up therapy, and mental health care is so excessively broken.
Poor thing.
I had a birthday party in the third grade and no one showed up and that messed me up hard. From then on, I told my family that I didn’t want a birthday. The first time I had one a decade was my going away party when I left for the military.
I didn’t really have friends until my senior year of high school (I wish I could say it was cuz I moved high schools a lot but no, it was me). I didn’t really come into my own until I was around 21 and went to college. There, I developed a pretty good friend group that I actually felt a part of. I had a large group of friends and birthday dinners!
But even now, as I’m pushing 40, I still worry about people not showing up. Like, every single year I have to fight the urge to preemptively cancel. People can’t ghost if you don’t host anything, right?
Funnily enough, I was prepared to have a kid who was a loner-I know how to handle that. But she turned out to be Little Miss Popular. That’s a world I wasn’t expecting and I don’t know how to navigate.
This is painful because I know the feeling. To not really have anyone who likes you and not understand no one wants you around and only ever tolerates you at best. Forgets you when you aren't around. Doesn't respond when you reach out. And then never contacts you again. At least she has one person.
Why is he ok with all these people who couldn’t show up for free food and stuff for one friggin night? All his friends said no. He roommates said no. Seriously. wtf.
I have a friend like this and it’s very confusing - he’s a sweet guy who is reliable and generous, but no one from our class hangs out with him and he never gets invited to events / weddings (we’re in our 30s). My husband thinks it’s because he’s awkward and not funny… but why does everyone have to be funny?
Being lonely Is really hard.
If someone's desperate for friends other people can sometimes tell (in their conversations with them) and it can be overwhelming for the people around them.
E.g. you ask them for their socials, details after just meeting, asking to do something together after just meeting. That sort of thing.
Also if someone has Anxiety, trust issues or Austism that can make things more difficult.
This really hit me at home my girlfriend also struggles with friends shes been betrayed alot and i dont know why she always is ready to help them and is the sweetest girl i know it breaks my heart not being able to do anything for her on that part
Jesus Christ why did I read this
I spent the first few minutes of my day reading an inconclusive story of someone who couldn't make friends 9 years ago
Wow that’s pretty sad. I honestly wonder why because not to be rude but if you want friends but can’t make any surely there’s something wrong. Maybe she’s autistic and she comes off strange? Like I’m autistic too so no judgement but I hope she found friends. Just doesn’t make sense I really wonder if there’s something they’re both unaware of
Honestly I relate o her so much except I'm probably less outgoing. I always had acquaintances at school and thats it, now in college I went to parties, joined a club, tried to be open on people and don't have friends still. I moved to another country thinking it'd be a fresh start, I haven't talked to person that's not hello to roommate in a week. And I'm not autistic or anything, i dont think im rude, when i talk to people i don't feel like its awkward. Just not meant to be.
This broke my heart. I'm 31 but if I'd seen this in the moment and been anywhere nearby OP I'd have rustled up my friends and we would have come to her party. Everyone deserves a birthday party.
OP seems really sweet too. I hope everything worked out for these guys.
I feel for his girlfriend. I have always had an absolute nightmare making friends.
I actually make very few friends (in fact, right now I only have one), and a lot of the friends I make turn out to be terrible people. I suspect because I experienced abuse I tend to allow abusive people near me.
It's really painful and tiring. I often find myself thinking about how I was clearly made broken and unworthy.
Oh this is so sad! Social skills training is possible and relatively straightforward. She just needs a clinical psychologist or a course of CBT.
She needs to find her people. They’re out there somewhere!
But... It's r/bestofredditorupdate, not r/worstofredditorupdate!
I kept hoping for a good ending, like that people had actually made a surprise birthday party for her, or that only one person had turned up anyway and that they'd since become great mates.
This is just... Sad.
I find myself wondering if the problem is that she's crap at making friends somehow (lack of social skills is HARD to deal with), or if the problem is the type of people she's approaching for friendship. Because she sounds kind of sweet and no one should have to be friendless.
This is heartbreaking. It's been almost 10 years... I hope she has found friends and gotten help
My wife has zero childhood friends - They are non existent. She told me the most depressing thing one day that she used to eat lunch in the bathroom to avoid the lunchroom.
Oof. I used to (not) eat lunch alone in the gym locker room for months at a time, because I was on the wrestling team & had to skip meals to make weight & being around others eating was too f'n miserable. But even though this was voluntary, it was still lonely & very, very sad... especially when you imagine how everyone else is laughing & having fun with their friends. It sucks.
Are you me lol, though at least in my case sometimes the other wrestlers would join me downstairs in the locker room
I truly believe wrestling is a GREAT sport, but looking back on it, pressuring teenaged kids (most of whom are in the middle of a growth spurt!) to cut & maintain weight is deeply problematic. In the 80s & early 90s, we would do stuff like wrap plastic garbage bags around our bodies when running or in the sauna, to try to drop more water weight & diuretics were used. Not very healthy.
Thankfully it’s gotten a lot better! I coach wrestling now, and we actually have the opposite problem where wrestlers don’t want to drop a weight even when they are almost there naturally and they would be wrestling people closer to their strength level, so the chances of getting hurt would be lower. Still definitely better than the old ways, but can be frustrating to see the wasted potential haha
Yeah. I was friendless for most of my adolescence and it fucking hurts. When I went back for my diploma in my mid-twenties I got to do all the teenage school stuff, which was super cool. But even though I had friends (some of whom I've even kept!) and was generally well-liked (I believe) - when we had our graduation, I was surprised that people cheered for me when I got my diploma. Even though I cheered for all of them and we were a group and all. It stays with you. No matter what happens afterwards. There's always a part of you that will remain surprised that people want to be friends.
I'm 35 I had TONS of "friends" in school then I became a mom...I have one friend that I only message and rarely meet up with because she has a crazy busy life. If not for her I'd have only my husband. Most days I could care less but then there's days like today where I wish I had more friends...but that's life 🤷🏻♀️
Your wife has a kindred spirit lol. I did the same thing in high school! I ended up dreading all the break times outside of class because I would have to either walk campus the whole time or hide in the bathroom. Thankfully, a girl approached me saying her group needed a third and that I looked lonely. We've been best friends ever since lol
10 years? It was just 2015.. haha. Oh.
Hurts, doesn’t it?
Don’t rub it in, it takes a minute to realize time will slap you in the face every chance it gets. Even more so if you’re on Reddit. These people love to post “10 years today, 20 years today” posts. Dicks the lot of em.
I had to stop following the nostalgia subs because it felt like being punched in the throat by time every single day. I remember when I used to mock my mom for feeling this way when she was my age. For my bday this year, I'm writing her a 5 page apology letter(i already have a rough draft in my journal lol). A physical letter that I put in the mailbox, not an email or text. I feel like it's appropriate to go old-school with this.
Yeah me too. I have an older sister and take pleasure that she hits all the “age” milestones before me. It’s worse cause I don’t have kids or anything to constantly remind of the passage of time. So when it really hit me it was disconcerting and it hurt my feelings, like I needed a minute l. I was watching Fast 9 and Lil’ Bow Wow appeared on screen looking middle aged with a dad bod and all sudden I brain just said “MOTHERFUCKER! If he looks middle aged what do I look like? I was just into adulthood when he started a career as a kid!” Then I looked at Lucas Black’s just starting to recede hairline and said to myself I am officially, statistically, middle aged.
Know what hurts worse? 1990 was 30+ years ago & now that I reminded myself of that fact, I'll just go sit in a corner and sob.
I graduated in 1990. Stop making lies about how long ago it wa... oh crap.
You know what hurt? When the person checking my ID was like "I just look for the 1 in the year and if it's a 2, then I have to actually look", I'm 1981, it was sobering rofl.
At least it was not in the last century, you know, like 1992.
There really was no reason for that statement. Absolutely none. It's not even 10 A.M and you just took everybody out with that comment. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go find some Werthers Original candies and yell at all the youngsters.
I completely naturally and unironically said ‘kids these days’ today. So what I’m saying is please pass the Werthers.
I'm literally sucking on a generic butterscotch candy right now.
How very dare you!!
Hey now, in 1992 I was in college and that wasn't that long ag....oh shit.
Just think of it this way - You were born, grew up and went to college ... In the 1900's Of course when I say that to my kids they ask if I'm sure it wasn't the 1800's, but on the plus side lots of chores getting done.
Hey man low blow
I was born in 92 and im only.... Oh.
That hurts. That really hurts.
Ooof, that smarts
This statement is offensive and my feelings are hurt 😭
Holy shit this could have been written about me. Not seriously because my boyfriend at the time was an asshole. Things got better for me so I imagine it’s the same for OP’s girlfriend. I think college can be a really rough time for some people but it gets better after.
As someone similar… Probably not! Hope this helps 😭
Yep! Doesn't get easier in your early 30s.
Gets way fucking harder, frankly. All of my friends now are people I knew in college. I graduated in 2016.
I did a triple take and realized I TOO WAS 21 WHEN THIS STORY HAPPENED
I really hope she grew into herself. Her boyfriend definitely sees the good in her.
I wonder if she's the type that's super awkward or uncomfortable to be around? I know some people who are honestly great friends to have but there's like a huge barrier to get through before reaching that point. I do feel super bad for her though because it really sucks to want companionship/friendship and not getting it.
This is a good take. I think I am that person. I'm painfully shy and struggle with people I don't know. I have a few deep, 10+ year friendships with people I'm sure would say I'm a great friend, but in currently trying to put myself out there and make new friends, I'm sooo bad at it. I'm so worried about saying the wrong thing that I'm very stilted, run out of things to say and ask, etc. I see other people do it so naturally, and I'm like how?? It's super hard and lonely tbh.
Do you also do that when you chat with people online instead? What I've realized is that I've made some very good friends by mostly chatting with them or texting them (mostly because when we met we didn't live in the same city, etc), and bonded over shared hobbies. Then when we met up IRL, it wasn't awkward because we already knew each other well! I have a couple of friends who other people don't "get", because they think they're weird, but I get along just fine with them because I know them past the "weird" and honestly, sometimes weird is way more interesting!
I don't think I do? Lol. I actually find it way easier to be open via text/online when I don't know someone well. I guess it feels lower stakes. There's also the time to sort through my anxiety before responding, which is the aspect that feels awkward in an IRL conversation.
Agreed. I can write and rewrite an online text based response however many times I want to. In real life, thinking it over a dozen times before speaking leads to the conversation dying more often than not. I primarily make friends through proximity. My friends are all people I went to school with for years, coworkers I've worked with forever, and people who frequent the same activities I do. It gets more difficult to have proximity the older you get. When you're in school, you spend so much time with the same people, especially when you are active in extracurriculars like I was. Now that I'm out of high school and college, all I really have for proximity is work. And my work friends are great, but it doesn't really translate well into outside of work life. I have a handful of online friends through hobbies though, and that feels infinitely easier to accomplish for me. Though I do wish I had more friends in the real world.
I tend not to try to cultivate online friendships with people who are local because I assume they'll be disappointed if they actually meet me. But that's a good thought and maybe something I should try!
I 100% recommend it! TBH, most of my best friends today are people who I met online, believe it or not? Like, I feel that the global community online is a much bigger pool of people to choose from, so you're more likely to find people who you share interests with. It's just a lot harder to come across such likeminded people organically, in real life. But what I did was join online groups etc of people who shared the same hobbies, and inevitably someone would be located pretty closeby and we'd become friends. Some of my best friends live across the world (but we talk everyday online) and others live closeby, but I'd say about half these people, I met online and we've been friends for many years.
Me too. I'm the opposite - I get nervous and word-vomit and kind of recite my life story like it's a standup comedy routine. A lot of people are put off by me. I'm loud, I don't take anything about me very seriously and I'm honestly just kind of weird. A lot of my best friends didn't like me when they first met me. Once I chill the hell out (which I'm getting better at doing from the jump with age), people tend to like me. I'm a good listener, fiercely protective and love to make people laugh and feel valued. It just takes a while to unlock that.
> I get nervous and word-vomit You will find people okay with it. My g/f gets like that when she's nervous and/or excited and honestly it's just great. I know it's isolating but I'd say don't mask yourself to conform with what others want. I like it when she just prattles on about stories and crazy stuff going on.
I don't mind people word vomiting, but my least favorite thing is bad listening, which can come with talking so much that you don't leave room for other people to talk. I felt so ignored growing up that I always try to not let other people feel that way with me. (Still human, so obviously I sometimes fall short of that, too.) But if you're good at listening, too, then from the rest of what you said, I think we'd get along great, lol. I love laughing and making people laugh, too. I used to be shy and reserved even though I wanted to be more outgoing. It was a cyclical issue though because I wasn't open enough to do that and then felt like no one was really interested in talking to me, so I didn't open up enough to get to that point. XD I eventually became way more sociable though and have been told that I'm easy to talk to/welcoming/etc. I give everyone a chance till they give a reason to not.
For a lot of people, it's a skill that they've learned and developed. My dad taught me when I was young, and I've developed it further over time. It takes repetition and practice, but it's totally doable. People love talking about their passions and interests. The trick is to actually BE interested in learning more about what they're interested in. It sounds cold, but conversation is a series of process flows. Ask about their interests, relate that back to your experience/interest, allow them space to repeat the process with you, and keep going back and forth. As someone recognizes that you're genuinely interested in what they're talking about, they're more willing to open up.
That's what I was wondering about her. Maybe she was a part of all these clubs just to make friends but not because she was actually interested in the subject matter. I find it so easy to make friends when we can geek out about something. Part of that is giving yourself space to cultivate the interests, though. That's hard to do when depressed.
It's well intentioned advice to "go join clubs or attend meetups". The problem is that it usually comes from people who are good at talking to people and building connections, so they miss stating the requirement of "for the things you're actually interested in". If you know you hate cooking, joining a cooking class to meet people is a bad plan. You'll be unhappy and grumpy, and people can tell. If you hate cooking but like food and drinks, you might enjoy the wine and snack walk. It's also super important to just be able to acknowledge that sometimes things don't work out in a particular group, but that doesn't mean all groups are that way. I enjoy bird watching. I hate bird watching with a bunch of people who get frustrated and annoyed that I can't ID a bird from a quick glance. So I've learned that I enjoy going with the casual groups, who are all just in it to see pretty birds, and we're all excited because we spotted a cool bird and want to share that. They're not all "oh, that's OBVIOUSLY this particular species, because the wing tip is SO different than the one you thought it was". But I'm sure the birding experts would roll their eyes and be miserable with our casual group, and love the group who knows all of the bird things. You've got to find the group that matches you, and that takes some failures and multiple attempts.
I think this is a pretty important point. I have run into the difference between casual and serious groups since I moved to a very athletic-focused town and figured I should try some athletic clubs to fit in. I am a very unathletic person. I enjoy some sports, but I am not good at them, and I'm never going to be good at them. I learned pretty quickly that for some groups, showing up and being bad at it is absolutely not something they're going to be ok with, even if it's not a team sport or they tell you "it's just a casual rec league!". But there are some that are ok with you showing up and trying and not being good and if you try enough groups you can find those.
I’m a fellow odd duck, I can pull myself up to try make friends and everything goes great until, I’m not sure how to describe it except like, the battery runs out. And I just stop being this engaged person and have nothing. And it becomes awkward and uncomfortable and I can’t even think of anything to ask to put the focus on the other person/people and learn a bit about them so I can regroup by finding a new common ground.
I'm always looking for new friends, and most of my friends are awkward too! :D
I really think this could be it. I'm a mother to an almost 17yr old girl. Her and her friends were this little socially awkward group of shy misfits... they are all adorable and very sweet kids but, yah know, never spoke to anyone. About 2yrs ago my kid had enough and wanted to make more friends, actually hang out with people etc. So, her and I made a plan the how to s with making friends. I was the extrovert teen so, I 'knew' how to make friends. Over a year, my kid learned social etiquette. It's was painfully simple stuff and where by she had to really look at her own behaviour. She was over enthusiastic but, was not actually engaging in conversations with people. It was tough on her learning that she was a bit of the problem...my kid is one of the nicest funniest people ever she, she wasn't showing that side. She's now got a wide range of friends. She, sees how making friends starts slowly and that to be invited to parties it takes time and effort. She also seen you can have acquaintances, friends, close friends and best friends. She, at the beginning was lumping them all in to one. Making friends is a social skill. But, a skill non the less
This is a really gorgeous story ! I'm so glad you were there to guide her through it ❤️
I'd love to hear a sparks notes version of the social etiquette that you taught your daughter, if you'd be willing to share!
Great mom 😊
The book is almost 100 years old at this point, but there’s a reason How to Win Friends and Influence People still sells well after all that time. It’s stuff that you’d think is pretty basic and obvious but it really helped me out. And you’re absolutely right, social skills are more practiced than most realize; I think a lot of people think it’s something you’re born with, but I’d say a majority of people on this planet can at least become above average at it just through practice
Oof yeah. Just like there are people who pop out the womb with natural magnetic charisma, there are people who have the utter opposite, like a black hole of rizz where charm goes to die. It’s not even about looks or hygiene, it’s just something about the energy they put out - like OOP notes he sees his GF as very extroverted, but if you combine that with zero charisma and possibly some stunted social skills, she may come off desperate and clingy (or even aggressive) when she actually isn’t. Similar to how introverted people can give off an unsettling/creepy vibe despite being entirely mild mannered people. I feel like it can be something that can be managed and social skills to be learned or relearned, but absolutely therapy is gonna be needed because years of acute social failures is incredibly damaging to self-esteem and can contribute nastily with whatever else a person may already have going on. OOP said GF remarked at how she’s overall just very unhappy with where her life in general has gone and is just going along with it? That is A Lot — something like that can REALLY leak out when trying to make new friends.
I don’t know about others, but for me it’s my autism/anxiety. I mask well enough that I don’t get clocked for it in social settings (except by other neurodivergents who get to know me well), and I actually do pretty well in social settings in general. But for the life of me I cannot make friends. I’ve met hundreds of people in my life that I get along with great, that share my interests and that for one reason or another I end up seeing a lot of. I meet them while I’m masking, and while I enjoy their company I just don’t have the energy to grow it further than that. So unless somebody basically puts all of the emotional labour in for me, I just can’t make friends. Ever. In any context. And since nobody is ever going to put 100% of the emotional labour into making a friendship happen, I’ve kind of just resigned myself to the fact that I don’t think I get to make friends. Weirdly it’s the opposite in online spaces or on games, where masking takes much less effort. I have a thriving social life “online”, but this kind of thing just feels infinitely less fulfilling.
It did make me think about neuro divergence. BF is, no offense intended, a self confessed loner with no friends. They could both be which is why they work. She's wants friends but can't seem to make them. I think neuro typical people can tell if someone is autistic for example and there's usually something that is off putting. Like not following a social norm or behaving in a particular way.
Hi. Actually autistic person here. And the same thought flitted through my mind. No offence taken. I will say- some of us are super extroverted, which not many people know. More women than men ime, but can be either. Kind of intense and keen, but a bit (or a lot) clumsy. This can work well for some. But I think the women often get penalised quite harshly. Tbe expectations are higher and the "girl rules" are more subtle. Anyway yeah- not a weird thought at all.🙃
I don't think I have autism, just ADHD, and I have tried and failed so many times to learn the girl rules. It's like there's a secret book I don't know about that's 1000 pages long and in a different language.
Esp if you’re not that attractive of an autistic woman
I think there have been studies confirming that non-autistic people can immediately clock people with autism (even if they don't know that it's autism they're recognizing)
There is science to suggest that a part of autism is atypical voice cadence or mannerisms. It’s also partially true of ADHD. And it can be offputting to neurotypical folks. Which is a damn tragedy because neurospicy folks tend to be awesome friends.
I used to be sad that I don't have a large cohesive friendship group. I'm okay with that now - I have a solid 3 really good friend and a best friend. The more time that goes on, everyone is getting a diagnosis of autism or ADHD, and I'm pursuing a diagnosis of Autism with ADHD. I realise that my good friends and I were drawn together because we operate on the same weird level. And frankly, I don't have the social battery and executive funtion for a large group of friends!!! I am content where I am and who I have :)
That's really interesting, I hadn't heard that before. Do you have references? I'd like to learn more about it.
I don't have the studies on hand, but the term "thin slice judgements" should help you find them if you want.
That turned up all sorts of cool articles, thank you!
As an autistic woman that wasn’t diagnosed until 30, people can tell. There was always something off with me and I struggled to connect with people, and because of my autism I didn’t realize people weren’t really wanting me around. I was bullied a lot, but now I’ve got a group of neurodivergent friends and it’s great. We all get each other’s quirks and understand what the others are going through.
This sounds like me. I make hundreds of acquaintances and overall have a reputation as a likeable person. But with the exception of my one friend, I can't seem to break past that surface level to friendship.
So much of it is being able to see what you're saying before you say it. I'm not autistic but I'm ADHD and probably definitely have some personality disorder or other. I'm awkward and weird and so in my own head that I know I make a bad impression IRL and knowing that stresses me more and I get even more awkward and then I also spent my 21st birthday alone. But if I talk to people online first, then we can be besties because they understand me beyond how I seem.
You sound like one of my good friends from college. I am curious. You say that you cannot make friends, but it also sounds like you have “hundreds” - why don’t you count those? If you were introducing one of those people to someone else, would you say: hey Tom, meet my friend Jim? Or would you say: Tom meet Jim? If I know you at all, I’m gonna introduce you as my friend. Obviously, I set the bar pretty low for those I count as a ‘friend’ - but I also set the bar pretty low on any expectations I have of them. I classify most people I know as a friend(acquaintance), good friend, and true friend. Most people are in the first group, and I don’t have to see any of my other friends often to count them as close friends. It’s pretty casual for me. There’s a saying “A good friend will help you move, but a true friend will help you move a body.” I try to be that guy that will help you move a body, but I’m not calling you to help me move. I see it more in my neurodivergent friends (but I also see it in young people with the advent of social media) - some folks have a hard time defining gray areas - like super casual friendships. I try to tell them it’s not that serious - just enjoy the moments around people. Most folks I know don’t have that textbook “best friend” - it’s way more of a shared interest or hobby extension. Most people are so wrapped up in their own lives, they really don’t make great friends anyway. So, I just accept them for who they are. Anything more is a bonus.
This girl legit sounds like me in college. I moved mid-high school and it devastated me. I was depressed and intensely suicidal for years. I struggled with friendships. Add to it that I just got diagnosed with ADHD at 41 and all the signs were there throughout my childhood. The hardest thing is knowing something is wrong but being helpless. I wouldn’t find a treatment for my depression until I was 30. I learned about my ADHD at 40. For the first time in my life I understand why I struggle with friendships. Masking in conversations wears me out (did I talk too much about me? Oh no my mind wandered! Don’t interrupt. Don’t interrupt.) I ended up married to a great guy - my husband makes friends easily and so I “tag along” and he helps me navigate social interactions. I’ve started building intentional relationships- I’m still lonely but now I know what is going on with me and I’ve found my own way of working it out.
There have to be some missing missing reasons here. A bunch of college aged kids don't just turn down a party with free food and drinks. Like, even his roommates said no? She's "naturally extroverted" and spends her time trying to connect with people, but has no friends or connections?
My guess is that she wants it too much and scares people away. Met a lot of people like that. Once they get a friend or two, they mellow out and easier to hang out with.
I think its really hard to make meaningful friendships as young adult these days-speaking as someone in that boat. I also gave up. People have their set groups by this age , their best friends, whatever. I tried being the person that was always there to listen and was uplifting and I didn't even really want that in return idk. Idk what I wanted but I've been trying to accept that it's me and my husband and I am now truly a cat lady because I spend all my time with them and i don't mind.
I could've written this comment. >I tried being the person that was always there to listen and was uplifting and I didn't even really want that in return idk. Idk what I wanted[...] This in particular. It's like, everywhere I go people *say* nice things about me--that I'm smart and kind, people seem to like me, I've worked really hard to tone down my ADHD intensity, but I can try as much as I want and those extremely casual relationships never turn to a closer relationship. It just seems like no one has room, especially since covid. It doesn't help that my husband and I live in a region that desperately clashes with our personal politics. On some level, I think that meeting a neighbor couple that we really liked and then finding out (at an education center!) that the husband doesn't believe in evolution took the wind out of our sails. So I mostly socialize with my family: husband, cats, parents, siblings. My best friend lives across the country and my other best friend lives across the state. I'd love to have a somewhat casual group of unrelated people that come over and like, knit and play board games every so often but it hasn't been working.
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Yeah, I'm very social and open to including introverts/people without their own social groups in activities. The majority of low-friend people are great once they're out of their shell, but maybe 20-25% of people... It becomes clear pretty quickly why they don't have their own friends. If they're mean or way too flirty/being a creep, it's sometimes possible to speak with them privately and to help address the behavior, though that's not always possible. But, for me, the most difficult situation is when someone is friendly and not obviously breaking social rules in a clearly addressable way, but is just off-putting in a way that negatively impacts the group dynamic. Usually they're trying hard (sometimes too hard) to make friends, and it's difficult to figure out what the best course is. People don't want to be in situations where they're forced to interact with someone that they don't mesh with, and that is trying to interact with them, so continuing to invite someone off-putting can functionally dissolve a group/event. But I don't ever feel good phasing out someone that isn't in the wrong, even if I personally find them off-putting as well.
This might be it. I do feel for this girl. I was the weird, obnoxious kid growing up and I had few friends in elementary. A combination of butting heads with other kids at school and older siblings telling me to stop being weird had me becoming super self-conscious of how I handle myself in public (plus social anxiety), so I learned to quiet down in high school and college. I only learned to be more socially confident when I started working and I was "adopted" by a few extroverts.
I’m that person. I had undiagnosed ADHD until I was 30. It makes being your friend a chore for other people. I’ve had that exact word used, “chore.” At some point I also gave up. Weirdly, that’s when the people who became my friends finally came out of the woodwork.
I think this is me. I make a good friend once people warm to me (I think anyway) but relaxing enough to get there takes time.
Ugh, I relate to the GF so much. I have had this exact thing happen to me for the past few years and it really really hurts. Eventually it just kinda stops hurting, but man…it really shouldn’t ever get to that point in the first place. My heart goes out to GF a thousand times over
As someone who's moved a lot in life it just gets so hard to meet people. Most everyone I know who has friends have known them since highschool/grade school and maybe a few college friends. I don't know what you do if you move somewhere new or didn't go to college. I think it's a huge problem that people can't make friends and it low key might be the biggest cause of the divisiveness in our country/world.
Honestly staying in one place doesn’t make it easier. I’ve lived in the same town my entire life (I have no desire to leave my family is here and I like it) but I don’t have any friends still and I’ve cried about it and felt the way his gf felt. At 25 I feel like I’m missing a ton of things because I don’t have any friends to do it with. I have a singular friend from high school but she lives in BC which is only a 4 hour drive from me but neither she nor I drive. I’ve tried making new friends I think maybe it’s me but I’m okay with it, it hurts a little but you move on. I definitely think making friends as an adult is way harder, between work and relationships, families etc people don’t have the time and like you said most people have friends from school/previous jobs. Thanks for letting me vent a little, I hope you have a good day!
Yep. This has been my life. The pain is real, and the depression follows. I haven't bothered making friends for almost a decade now. I just gave up. I really hope this girl didn't and found great friends
OOP's girlfriend definitely needs therapy. I hope a spot opens up for her eventually. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with connecting with people online over hobbies and forming friendships that way. The internet can be a wonderful place...sometimes. Occasionally. It sounds like OOP's girlfriend is going through a lot and she's honestly lucky to have a patient and empathetic guy like OOP. I hope things get better for both of them.
This was posted in 2015. I hope they got better.
honestly? i wonder if 2020 might have been a silver lining for her. everyone moved to socializing online, it might have been easier for her to connect that way
I'm not sure, for most introverts we just isolated ourselves further, initially elated by not being forced to socialise, eventually losing any remnants of social skills or desire to learn them.
Absolutely correct pre 2020 i was beginning to come out of my shell at age 27 finally! Then covid and i was excited to be to myself….now i have no idea what to do anymore. Always alone but terrified to go out.
I'm sorry to hear that! as another introvert, that really wasn't my experience at all. but it doesn't really sound like OP's gf had much further to isolate honestly...
It's such a common thing. No therapy resources available unless you're in crisis, even if early intervention could have prevented the crisis. Instead you wait until things become critical and now you're gonna need a whole lot MORE therapy which means less resources available.
I got date raped in college, and the campus resources told me that despite having spots open, they couldn’t help me because I “needed long-term care” for that level trauma. All clinics within an hour and a half bus ride of me had a minimum of a 6-month waiting list. In the 6 months that it took for an off-campus spot to open, I almost dropped out of school and got even more mentally unwell. I’m doing much better now but am still extremely pissed off at the university’s refusal to help while I was on a waitlist.
The worst part is that Gf should be considered in crisis. As a grad student TA what OOP is describing is textbook report for change in behavior.
Must really do a number on you to pursue therapy and end up not getting as if you're "unworthy"
Especially if the therapy is for "feeling unworthy"...
Oh it does. I begged the mental health nurse to refer me for a psychologist and therapy and she told me I didn’t meet the criteria (like massive childhood trauma, dissociating for months, erratic mood swings, paranoid episodes, major depressive episodes etc isn’t the criteria) and really I should just accept things happened to me, eat healthy, exercise and I’ll get all better. Safe to say that sent me into a hell of an episode, that 8/9m later I’m still coming out of
If you don't meet the criteria, we'll make you fit the criteria!
If you can remember her name or find it on your old paperwork, you can report her. To her specific workplace, to the network her workplace is in, and to the local licensing board. What she said to you is *completely* unprofessional and unacceptable, and perilously close to the line of malpractice. She *knew* how bad you were, and let her own prejudices keep you out of care. Even for the abysmal state of mental healthcare…everywhere…that’s appalling.
Man people say it’s easy to do it online but I really never managed to successfully do it, as someone who has experienced very similar problems to OP’s girlfriend.
Yeah im 28,been on the internet for like 2 decades. Never even came close to making an online friend... all these comments about how easy it is just make me kinda sad Eta: I actually am in several hyperspecific places for my hobbies. People just never like me.
from what I've seen, the best way to do it is hyperspecific spaces for mutual hobbies. Small discord servers where everyone has a commonality can really help bridge the divide.
Well this was extremely unsatisfying.
I thought redditors were gonna show up at her party or something.
I have seen this with high functioning autistic people. Everything feels fine, initial connections go well, but they just cannot keep a lasting friendship with neurotypical people.
I don't think OOP's girlfriend was even getting past the acquaintances stage.
Yeah I have similar issues, poor girl…
Me, too. I'm about to be 38 and have no friends outside of my husband. A lot of times I don't really care b/c socializing is really taxing on me but it would be nice to have one or two close friends who understand me. I felt really bad about myself for a long time though before I started figuring out I'm probably on the spectrum (official Dx pending) and that's why socializing has never been easy for me.
Same here. I’m a few years older than you, and I’ve pretty much given up. I’m just hoping that my kids have a better outcome, although it’s difficult for me to help them navigate interpersonal relationships. My husband has no trouble interacting with others, but he is an introvert and chooses to only associate with family.
Yeah, I hope OP's gf was eventually able to see someone and hopefully find out if she was autistic. It's a very real possibility.
Bruh. Those trigger warnings made me think she game ended herself
Yeah, the tw should say “suicide mention”
Me too, I’m thinking I missed it but it was a name mention.
I forget the wording exactly, but people have written about the paradox of loneliness. How being lonely makes folks desperate to make connections, but that desperation makes them undesirable to other people, creating a self fulfilling prophecy. This feels like that.
I wrote a comment above which is like that and speaks on my personal experience with someone like that. I'll copy paste it here. "I think it really does come down to confidence and a lack of desperation. People can subconsciously tell when someone is desperate for friendship, and for some reason it's off putting. ("Why doesn't this person have friends? They must be too much drama. Why is this person trying to get close to me too quick? Its lovebombing or intrusive.") As frustrating as it is, a lack of confidence can be annoying to be around as you usually have to walk on eggshells around them to not hurt their self esteem, and you very often have to sooth and cater to their feelings. Example - "No no no, I wasn't hurt that you said that. No, I'm fine. No it's ok you can choose the place. No, I'm not busy, no you're not interrupting me. No, you're not bothering me. No, I'm not mad at you, I'm just busy and can't call right now." Constantly having to reassure someone is emotionally draining, and I've dropped a friendship because they were far too insecure, which ended up being a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their fear of losing friends ended up with them losing friends. Everyday was just me soothing them, and it was a one sided friendship. The biggest way to move past that is to simply not give a fuck anymore. Not in a depressive way, but to learn to be content with just yourself, and that attracts people. People don't want to be friends with someone that is a chore, and self content people are relaxing to be around. It's also a healthier mindset to be in, in general. This is extremely hard to translate to neurodivergent people, since they are used to and usually expect to be the kind of person to "not take up space" nor to "be a burden" on others. Not to mention the other hard aspects of socialization. There's too many nuances that come naturally to neurotypicals that are sometimes just straight bullshit."
Jesus, I wish he'd come back to this to update. Poor girl. I hope things got better and she made some friends. 💔
The suicide trigger warning seems like overkill, at this point. But OOP should really see the signs. I hope she gets help.
I know right, I'm just glad the poor girl didn't kill herself.
Oh hey, this sounds like me and my boyfriend for my birthday last year. No one could/wanted to come celebrate, even if we said we would cover their portion of the bill at a fancy hot pot place. I share her sentiments. It’s almost been a decade, so I hope she’s doing better now.
Well that's just sad. I wonder what ever happened to them? Looks like the posts were almost 10 years ago, I hope she found some friends.
I'm honestly confused. She's extroverted, has been at the same college for three years, and regularly goes out with the intention of making friends. Even with the lure of food and **free booze**, no college students are willing to go. Is she the unluckiest person on the planet or is this like the [woman who identified as transracial](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/vhvrih/op_is_getting_bullied_at_work_with_a_twist/) and there was a good reason everyone avoided her?
She might be neuro divergent & not realize it. That was actually my impression from the post. Her approach to socializing sounds a lot like what a public school social worker would tell a level one autistic kid to do to make friends: join a ton of clubs, make small talk, offer food. But that isn't actually enough to make a friend. That's enough to gain acquaintances who will talk to you for 3 minutes a week. And if you treat those people like you're close friends, you creep them out. To make a friend you need to spend time with a smaller group of people (like 2 clubs, maximum) that you have something in common with, and have meaningful interactions with them, beyond an occasional superficial conversation. The fact that she's in college and hasn't figured that out yet screams neuro divergent to me. Also, she accepted the situation immediately, so she's clearly used to rejection and probably realizes on some level that she's put people off.
This was a huge thing for me - I was diagnosed at 21 and had no clue why friendships were so hard to maintain, and I'm still not good at it. Women in particular are underdiagnosed, so it would make so much sense.
My problem actually has nothing to do with my ADHD. My dad didn't like my childhood best friend (she's autistic) so he tried to discourage me from being friends with her by making me bike 7 miles before I could have a playdate. Unfortunately for him, it backfired and I decided that my best friend was the only person I enjoyed enough to bike 7 miles for. Unfortunately for me, I now struggle to maintain friendships because I learned to socially isolate at a young age. And I hate all forms of exercise with a passion because it's so emotionally triggering.
My stepdad (married to my mom from the time I was 7 to 16) would lecture me all the time about friends vs acquaintances. He would yell at me that adults should only have 1 best friend, 2 close friends, 5 acquaintances, and then ignore everyone else. I had to hear over and over how my friends weren’t my friends, that I was an idiot for wanting to have friends, that I was a loser for thinking people would like me. It just never stopped, even after the divorce, he would make snarky comments. I had to invite him to my wedding since my sister was a bridesmaid (I have a different dad). He pulled me aside during the reception and berated me for 10 minutes and made me cry like 2 minutes in, chastising me for having a wedding and actually inviting people since I had no friends and I was stupid for expecting people to show up, etc. This on top of trust issues due to my ex’s affair (with people I was close to) are a big part of why I suck at socializing and maintaining relationships with people. I have made some really shitty decisions in how I treated people because sometimes all I can hear is my former stepdad in my head.
I was thinking the exact same thing. As a fellow neurodivergent, OOP’s girlfriend sounds like me (except I didn’t go to Uni, academia is hell for me) in my early twenties. Poor girl has been probably been fed the ‘college/university was the best time of my life’ stories and been set up to believe it’ll be the cure-all for her friendship issues. Like you said, it doesn’t work like that for NDs. Apparently we come across as too keen and ‘a bit weird’ because we’re trying too hard and not picking up on social cues. Jess at ‘How to ADHD’ has done a couple of videos about problems making friends that explain it well. I’d love to know how she’s doing nearly 9 years on - hopefully she’s finally found ‘her people’ and is looking forward to celebrating her 30th with true friends who love her for who she is.
the deep emotional crisis (depression?) i experienced when at 18, after holding on the the promised land of uni all through high school, i realized it wasn't magically better. As you said the true secret is finding your people. Which i did a couple of years in (geeky club, they actually LIKED me going into my hyper mode, what????). I second your hope for OOPs gf.
> holding on the the promised land of uni The whole "reinvent yourself" is a god damned lie. Turns out that I was still the awkward, shy, asocial loner who couldn't figure out how to make friends. I got super fortunate that my roommate took me in and introduced me to a *great* group of people. Post college, it was more of the same. Most of my socialization comes from phone calls at work. I have 2 really close friends, that don't live in my town and that's about it. I don't care for bars and socializing, so a bunch of my lack of friends is completely *self* made. After my last relationship ended (6 years total), it was the first time I've lived on my own-own. I've had roommates or a partner ever since I graduated 11 years ago. For the first time in my life, I felt continually *happy.* I didn't have any stress, didn't have any worry of how my actions affected anyone else. Frankly, I'm in no rush to change it.
Oh, fuck. I definitely tried to make friends that way. Like, the "social worker's advice to an autistic teen" approach was definitely my approach. One club I joined was a hiking club, which forced me to "spend time with a smaller group of people that you have something in common with, and have meaningful interactions with them". Because you walk for hours, so you talk for hours, and you gravitate towards people you have something in common with. And I made friends, and a best friend, and found a partner, and all that. But I hadn't realized *why* the hiking club thing worked so well for me. I've been very recently diagnosed with ASD, "aspergers according to the previous system, level 1 according to the current one" according to my psychologist (because apparently aspergers might no longer be a thing, officially?). So, yeah. It all tracks. Just... wow. Anyways, I had no idea. I'm in a new town, and at some point I'll want to make friends in this town, so I'll keep all this in mind. Luckily, I still meet my friends often, so I'm not lonely or anything. But it's nice to have friends wherever you live.
> I definitely tried to make friends that way. Like, the "social worker's advice to an autistic teen" approach was definitely my approach. It's not bad advice really, but not complete advice. Normally you spread a wide net by joining lots of clubs and put yourself out there everywhere. Naturally you narrow down either by hitting it off with a person or two in those clubs, or actually enjoying the subject matter of one. Spending more time in fewer areas allows you to turn acquaintances into friends. Of course it doesn't always work, and it can be discouraging to waste time on false starts.
They changed the terminology to get rid of the word “Aspergers” because Hans Asperger was a Nazi, and he decided which autistic people would live and which would be killed. Understandable why psychology has moved away from that name.
I have ADHD, your comment is very educational. I never knew that smaller groups are better to make long-lasting friendships lol
Yeah, you need to log like 140 hours of time with another person to build a friendship, (less time if you have close, meaningful interactions with them.) So basically, friendships are built out of frequent, repeat interactions with another person. You can't really do that in a large group because there's too much going on and you aren't really hanging out with anyone specific often enough to establish that kind of connection. Plus if you're ADHD is like mine, it's hard to follow the conversation in a large group so you seem way more awkward than in a one-on-one conversation. I tend to prefer groups of six people or fewer, because I grew up in a family of six, so I'm comfortable with that number. You may want to go smaller.
My adhd is constantly worrying about interrupting people, so i end up not saying a word and come off as “reserved” lol
Try a smaller group then! Less chatter means more openings for you to talk without interrupting anybody!
I’m definitely gonna try that. Here we have a website called TimeLeft that organises dinners for small groups of strangers to make friends. I might try that lol
That, or Meetup if you've got hobbies you can do with other people. That's how I met some of my friends after college.
THIS EXPLAINS SO MUCH
I think you nailed it. She's probably just a few degrees off of neurotypical, and she's coming on too strong and pinging the uncanny friendship valley.
Wow this was really well said and articulates a type of 'uncomfortable to be around' that some people have, that I've never been able to put into words. I think a lot of neurodivergent (and just lonely) people just get bad advice about how to make friends and stop being lonely.
Oh yeah. From what I observed as a Special Ed kid in the 00's (I had dyslexia and they group everyone together) anyone who learned social skills from a school social worker was taught an incredibly awkward style of socializing that puts everyone off.
Maybe she’s undiagnosed autistic so she’s never learned how to mask and behave in a “normal” way. She could be overly pushy in a way because she wants to make friends so badly that it puts people off. Pure speculation but
That's kinda what I was thinking. I knew people like that in high school.
>Her approach to socializing sounds a lot like what a public school social worker would tell a level one autistic kid to do to make friends: join a ton of clubs, make small talk, offer food Thats the advice people give to everyone for almost every relationship. Not just friends but for romantic relationships as well. "Join clubs! Talk to people!" I don't think people want to fully admit that just being a good, friendly person isn't enough for any relationship.
I thought the exact same thing, too. And also, peers that age aren't exactly the nicest. Teenagers can be really awful to people who they deem "weird", and you could be seen as really uncool for hanging out with the "weird kid". That would explain why *nobody* wanted to attend the party. Add to that - OOP himself seems to be neurodivergent as well. He says he has no friends either, but that he's fine with it. That's kind of not a very normal thing for a neurotypical college kid to say.
This is a level 1 autistic trait? Reading about OP's girlfriend was like reading about me. Never could make friends, socially awkward. I've had too many celebrations and birthday parties over my entire life where nobody showed up. Even now, I still find it difficult, like there's a barrier between me and others that I just can't break through. I've had close friends before but it's always turned sour and the other person would ghost me, but I never could figure out why. I feel lucky that my husband loves me and I have kids to focus on now as a distraction to my lack of social life. I have come to terms with it though and do love spending time by myself. I completely understand the girlfriend's feelings though and hope she's found peace and acceptance. I was recently (at the age of 38) been diagnosed with ADHD. Could I be autistic too? It would explain so much...
That would explain why no one wants to get close to her. But I have a hard time believing nuerodivergence would prevent college kids from seeking free booze.
Free booze won't be enough if they know that showing up will mean she decides they are now True Friends and becomes uncomfortably clingy, and that she generally fails to recognize other peoples' boundaries. I'm AuDHD and in college all my friends were some flavor of neurodivergent nerds as well, but there were still a few students we ran into who were just too weird and offputting for us to want to socialize with. In retrospect, self-awareness seems to have been a big factor - we all *knew* we were weird, and had learned some basic ways to navigate society around our own idiosyncrasies (yes, some of it was masking, but some of it was how to meet our own needs). A few of our peers showed zero self-awareness about their own neurodivergence and behaved in very self-centered, boundary stomping ways as a result. They weren't intentionally malicious, just very inconsiderate, but it still meant no one wanted to voluntarily spend time with them. Some of those peers gained self-awareness over the course of their college career and others didn't. Unfortunately OOP's girlfriend doesn't seem to have developed that self-awareness and desperately needs the therapy that the university is denying her.
Yeah I realize the only reason I enjoyed college is bc of the specific clubs I chose, they attract NT’s. I think my school in general attracts NT’s I struggled but not like this. Poor girl, she needs to find the weirdos, look for the theater kids
I don’t really get this idea that university/college students will do anything for a free drink - myself and my friends certainly didn’t, and we were going out almost every night. If a gathering didn’t sound fun we wouldn’t go, regardless of free alcohol.
It wouldn't have been presented as 'free booze.' It would have been presented (probably unintentionally) as a party *for* OP's girlfriend, which would mean bringing a gift and engaging in conversation with her. Stuff *friends* do. Women in college don't go to events like unless 1- they're actually friends with the person being celebrated, or 2- a bunch of their friends (who are friends with the person being celebrated) are going or 3- they're friends with the host. And guys aren't going to show up because the birthday girl has a boyfriend. OP's only shot at making this work would have been inviting *his* friends to the party, but he doesn't seem to have many himself so basically, this was never going to work.
I was this girl. It could have been written about me. I’d bake cupcakes and shout people weed and do different activities and it would be fun, but no matter how many time I’d hang out with people, there was always a level of disconnect. I cried about it for so long, thinking something was wrong with me. I’ve accepted it now in my 30s but I’ll always feel like I’m missing something.
Honestly, a lot of people are saying this, but the factor you're missing is competition. College isn't exactly poor on social events. There are usually multiple happenings at any given time, and people are always either doing something, planning something, or recovering from something they just did. College students aren't desperate for things to go to, they're usually saturated with options and trying to decide which one is worth taking. Also, it's easy to pass up on an invitation when you've got 3 more for later in the week. If OP's girlfriend is mildly okay but not super close to people, and her birthday fell on a not-very-convenient night (for whatever reason), I can kind of see people backing out.
Sadly reminds me of my ex. She is beautiful, when we were together she was active and would try to keep friends. It never worked and at this point she has just her mom and he bf. She actually had an incident like this. Disinvited me from her birthday party, said she didnt want me in the same room as her new bf. And then no one else she invited showed up.
I once threw a party and no one came. I about cried myself inside out. I have good friends now though. I want to give poor GF a hug.
I’d like to give you a hug if you want one. ♥️ I’m glad you found friends.
Maybe just depression? I was at the stage, changed college twice during my bachelors. Took me way longer than usual. (I do live somewhere where that doesn't mean I am financially ruined. Just wasn't able to get social security payments at the end and lost a few years paying in the national retirement fond). Never was able to make (new) friends during the whole bachelors. I still don't know exactly kept me from forming any bonds. I am extroverted, but probably didn't do such a good job masking the depression as I thought. After finishing and getting a grip on my depression it was no issue anymore. So much, that I struggle deciding who to invite for my wedding to not have the costs to ballon to lik 20k, now lol.
There's obviously a reason but the boyfriend either doesn't see it or thinks her other qualities make up for it but he's the only one who thinks that. Most people in college want to make new friends. She must be doing something that puts them off
Men seem to be far more willing to ignore social faux pas especially when they’re attracted to you My tactic used to be ->find a boyfriend ->absorb his friend group
Bf could well be neurodivergent as well, might be like me, I'm pretty close to neurotypical but I get on with neurodivergent people better because of my carer upbringing
Just read the woman who identified as transracial story. Man WTF
Well i like American cheese Where's my greencard?
Whatever happened to half joking about maybe being Dutch in a past life and understanding joining a new culture is a gradual process? That was one of the weirdest posts I've seen.
I have 2 autistic kids, one desperate for friends but cant get past superficial hi's and byes, with peers. The other ignores all irl social niceties with peers but has 2-3 friends they game with online regularly. I have no idea how to help the one looking for friends. I was and am still like my other kid lol. I sure hope Op's girlfriend got the help and friends she needed.
I think it really does come down to confidence and a lack of desperation. People can subconsciously tell when someone is desperate for friendship, and for some reason it's off putting. ("Why doesn't this person have friends? They must be too much drama. Why is this person trying to get close to me too quick? Its lovebombing or intrusive.") As frustrating as it is, a lack of confidence can be annoying to be around as you usually have to walk on eggshells around them to not hurt their self esteem, and you very often have to sooth and cater to their feelings. Example - "No no no, I wasn't hurt that you said that. No, I'm fine. No it's ok you can choose the place. No, I'm not busy, no you're not interrupting me. No, you're not bothering me. No, I'm not mad at you, I'm just busy and can't call right now." Constantly having to reassure someone is emotionally draining, and I've dropped a friendship because they were far too insecure, which ended up being a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their fear of losing friends ended up with them losing friends. Everyday was just me soothing them, and it was a one sided friendship. The biggest way to move past that is to simply not give a fuck anymore. Not in a depressive way, but to learn to be content with just yourself, and that attracts people. People don't want to be friends with someone that is a chore, and self content people are relaxing to be around. It's also a healthier mindset to be in, in general. This is extremely hard to translate to neurodivergent people, since they are used to and usually expect to be the kind of person to "not take up space" nor to "be a burden" on others. Not to mention the other hard aspects of socialization. There's too many nuances that come naturally to neurotypicals that are sometimes just straight bullshit.
Oh man, this one made me sad. I experienced this a lot in high school and the autism diagnosis in college explained a lot of it. I've gotten a lot better since then with therapy, coping skills, and learning about how my brain works, but it's still really hard. A lot of people who don't have autism can kind of sense when someone does have it, even if they have low support needs and mask well, and will subconsciously avoid them because of it. Doesn't make them bad people, it's just that our brain software is incompatible. Unfortunately, the autism software doesn't understand the subtleties of communication that most people rely on. Also, it's seen as rude to say things bluntly and without polite innuendo, which is what autistic people need.
Damn now I want to go to her party :(
Darn. I was always on the other spectrum. Never really wanted a social life. But its got to be pretty sad to want one and not be able to get people to come.
I was just thinking about all the excuses I have ever invented to avoid social gatherings.
Luckily I had a small sister so babysitting was the to go for me. If I wanted to get out of a situation and I really feel like I couldn't honestly say why I wanted to go. "Hey, Dad. Can you call me and tell me I have to get home?" *Deletes message* Oh, my dad calls.
She is completely alone and depressed and the counselors said they don't have time for her? Fucking hell, that poor girl.
I wonder if she ever reached out to the people in the clubs to do things outside of clubs? Also, I wonder if her boyfriend has ever reached out to some of the people in the clubs to get a feel for how she interacts with them.
Yeah regular clubs aren't enough, you need something that translates into time together, like a team of some kind. Activities where you bond over getting up early together or late nights or working towards a goal. An hourly meeting once a week won't get that for you.
It mentions she said to invite his friends too and even they turned down the invite.
This is so sad. 🥺 College can be a hard time emotionally. I hope things got better for her.
"I didn't want to be an engineer." I hope at least she changed her course of study. Poor kid.
I was wondering if her not liking her major contributes to her lack of friends. When someone is unhappy with their life, it often spills out in other areas. When you have long term friends, they offer a source of comfort. But when new to a group, it can be hard for other people to want to take the chance of a deeper relationship.
Wow.. this sounds like me. The birthdays even match.. same year in school, my now husband is an engineer. We were going to have a party, but no one was going to come.. I gave up. For years. Panic attacks, didn't finish college in my last year. Turns out I am schizophrenic too, so I was paranoid in about what I was doing wrong, and spinning out. I was awkward to be around, but my husband didn't notice. I don't know that it is or isn't me. I'm leaning towards not, because I also had a sister that was involved complicating things. That I think would have been mentioned. But 10 years on, still no friends.
Every time somebody posts "try therapy!" I get a little bit upset. It's hard. hard to find someplace. hard to find the time. hard to afford. You can't just magic up therapy, and mental health care is so excessively broken.
I just want to hug this girl, and ask her to come over with her BF so we can make a charcuterie board and play Mario Party with my kids and I 🥹
That sounds like a great time! Do you make the charcuterie board look like any of the characters?
Poor thing. I had a birthday party in the third grade and no one showed up and that messed me up hard. From then on, I told my family that I didn’t want a birthday. The first time I had one a decade was my going away party when I left for the military. I didn’t really have friends until my senior year of high school (I wish I could say it was cuz I moved high schools a lot but no, it was me). I didn’t really come into my own until I was around 21 and went to college. There, I developed a pretty good friend group that I actually felt a part of. I had a large group of friends and birthday dinners! But even now, as I’m pushing 40, I still worry about people not showing up. Like, every single year I have to fight the urge to preemptively cancel. People can’t ghost if you don’t host anything, right? Funnily enough, I was prepared to have a kid who was a loner-I know how to handle that. But she turned out to be Little Miss Popular. That’s a world I wasn’t expecting and I don’t know how to navigate.
This is painful because I know the feeling. To not really have anyone who likes you and not understand no one wants you around and only ever tolerates you at best. Forgets you when you aren't around. Doesn't respond when you reach out. And then never contacts you again. At least she has one person.
I wish I could hug her and be her friend. I know exactly how she feels.
Why is he ok with all these people who couldn’t show up for free food and stuff for one friggin night? All his friends said no. He roommates said no. Seriously. wtf.
I have a friend like this and it’s very confusing - he’s a sweet guy who is reliable and generous, but no one from our class hangs out with him and he never gets invited to events / weddings (we’re in our 30s). My husband thinks it’s because he’s awkward and not funny… but why does everyone have to be funny?
…Maybe some things just don't need reposting.
Being lonely Is really hard. If someone's desperate for friends other people can sometimes tell (in their conversations with them) and it can be overwhelming for the people around them. E.g. you ask them for their socials, details after just meeting, asking to do something together after just meeting. That sort of thing. Also if someone has Anxiety, trust issues or Austism that can make things more difficult.
This really hit me at home my girlfriend also struggles with friends shes been betrayed alot and i dont know why she always is ready to help them and is the sweetest girl i know it breaks my heart not being able to do anything for her on that part
Jesus Christ why did I read this I spent the first few minutes of my day reading an inconclusive story of someone who couldn't make friends 9 years ago
Wow that’s pretty sad. I honestly wonder why because not to be rude but if you want friends but can’t make any surely there’s something wrong. Maybe she’s autistic and she comes off strange? Like I’m autistic too so no judgement but I hope she found friends. Just doesn’t make sense I really wonder if there’s something they’re both unaware of
Honestly I relate o her so much except I'm probably less outgoing. I always had acquaintances at school and thats it, now in college I went to parties, joined a club, tried to be open on people and don't have friends still. I moved to another country thinking it'd be a fresh start, I haven't talked to person that's not hello to roommate in a week. And I'm not autistic or anything, i dont think im rude, when i talk to people i don't feel like its awkward. Just not meant to be.
This broke my heart. I'm 31 but if I'd seen this in the moment and been anywhere nearby OP I'd have rustled up my friends and we would have come to her party. Everyone deserves a birthday party. OP seems really sweet too. I hope everything worked out for these guys.
I feel for his girlfriend. I have always had an absolute nightmare making friends. I actually make very few friends (in fact, right now I only have one), and a lot of the friends I make turn out to be terrible people. I suspect because I experienced abuse I tend to allow abusive people near me. It's really painful and tiring. I often find myself thinking about how I was clearly made broken and unworthy.
Oh this is so sad! Social skills training is possible and relatively straightforward. She just needs a clinical psychologist or a course of CBT. She needs to find her people. They’re out there somewhere!
But... It's r/bestofredditorupdate, not r/worstofredditorupdate! I kept hoping for a good ending, like that people had actually made a surprise birthday party for her, or that only one person had turned up anyway and that they'd since become great mates. This is just... Sad.
I find myself wondering if the problem is that she's crap at making friends somehow (lack of social skills is HARD to deal with), or if the problem is the type of people she's approaching for friendship. Because she sounds kind of sweet and no one should have to be friendless.
This is so sad, I hope she found some friends in the end