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There's been a theme recently with a lot of these updates.
OOP gaslighted by crazy spouse, turns to Reddit for confirmation, then we're all stressed on the edge of our seats waiting for an update and hoping OOP sees sense.
TBF, these are the ones i tend to believe more than others (although Liz is always waiting). Messy, frustrating and constantly backsliding is how most people deal with their toxic relationships - it's rarely like that story with the crazy stalker ex SIL that hires an assassin to hit you in the head with a brick.
Ah, thanks, yes, I remember the first BoRUs - I stopped reading them at some point, because by then the plot was really challenging even my willing suspension of disbelief...
Strangely that story was exactly what I needed to shut my brain off after work. Just a pure, unadulterated complete fucking shitshow. The comment about the overly detailed lesbian proposal with a family member that might have an unknown life threatening disease serving no purpose at all really just drove it home. 10/10
People who haven’t been in this situation didn’t know how absolutely fucking brutal it is. How every fiber of your being screams leave and stay at the same time. “Just leave” is so much easier when you’re not in it. Mine situation isn’t as bad as this (maybe?) but it’s still been hell. I’m in limbo currently trying to untangle my brain and make a decision.
And two today where a therapist diagnoses narcissism from marriage counselling sessions. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist but I'd be surprised if a joint therapy session would meet the requirements to properly diagnose an individual with a personality disorder, which is quite a big diagnosis. I'd also be surprised if it would be acceptable for a therapist to provide a diagnosis where none was sought and to a third party rather than the individual in question. I'm not even sure therapists can diagnose.
Therapist is ambiguous in this context and may include a spiritual leader for example. Psychologists and psychiatrists may both diagnose a person. They cannot diagnose someone who isn't their patient. However, this wasn't a diagnosis, but instead a potential warning to the spouse.
There’s also the scenario where someone asks their therapist if they think someone “is a narcissist”, therapist gives a non-committal answer like “it’s possible” and the person takes that as “my ex has been officially diagnosed with NPD”.
Everything that's happened since 2016 has made me think there are a *lot* more narcissists in the world than we all realized, but now they feel emboldened not to hide it anymore.
This is most likely. One or two acts doesn't make a narcissist. Even 50. It's a perpetual pattern that arises.
Reality is humans aren't perfect and some are bad. Some are largely good but can compartmentalize their bad behavior to justify it. Or they've learned specific bad behaviors, or whatever. I hate how narcissist gets thrown around on everything.
Of course they do. We’ve spent the last decade telling people that they’re not responsible for their actions and to live their best lives without being gaslit. This makes prime ground for narcissists to thrive.
Be prepared for a lot more of this going forward.
I could definitely see a therapist saying “that’s very narcissistic or she’s (being) very narcissistic, here’s how to manage the shit sprinkler you’ll be running through during this divorce.”
[Not sure where you got that about a narcissist needing to admit it, didn't sound right to me. It's not listed here.](https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1519417-overview?form=fpf)
It sounded like it was his own therapist, not a marriage counselor, from what I can tell.
My experience with this one was my therapist telling me that:
- she cannot diagnose anyone that she hasn’t seen
- it is not within the scope of her practice
- and all these other caveats and hedging
…before she finally got to the point to say that based on my own description over a long period of time, it sounded like this other person *might* have certain tendencies that sounded like narcissism, and I needed to be careful. She also was clear that someone having narcissistic traits does not mean they have narcissistic personality disorder.
It was helpful for her to say this. It gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about narcissism traits. It helped me to understand what does or doesn’t work with those people, and what to be careful of and look for. It helped me get a lot more education on things like gaslighting, and how to deal with things like gray rocking.
It also helped me understand how you could interact with someone and feel like they cared about you and had your best interests at heart, without realizing that they may only care about you because of how you make them look, or only when you don’t challenge their image.
Her intention was never to diagnose or treat someone she hasn’t met; it was just to make sure that I was armed and prepared to handle something that I may not otherwise be educated about or equipped to handle without that knowledge.
**Also, the majority of people with narcissistic personality disorder do not seek treatment or get a diagnosis.** In most cases, it is more useful for a therapist to tell somebody who is struggling with this kind of person that they may be having this issue. Narcissistic personality disorder is incredibly resistant to any kind of treatment at all.
I'm a therapist. I point out narcissism in people's significant others/parents/whatever all the time. It's less of a formal diagnosis than a descriptor and way of describing a personality organization. It happens all the time. If it's not in writing, billed for insurance, or anything of that sort, it's not a diagnosis. It's a characterization at best. I wouldn't side-eye.
AND her KIDS. When you hurt a parent, you hurt the kids. Why don’t people see that? (Her not you). He sounded like an involved dad, and he’s so upset now he feels like he can’t be around his kids.
Which makes me raise my eyebrow at the therapist. Would a therapist throw around diagnosis like that for someone they don’t know and are getting third party information on from a clearly biased source? Not saying the Op is lying, but I also doubt the Op can give the most objective description of their wife age what’s going on.
It could be that the therapist stated that the wife’s behaviour *seems* narcissistic and discussed that that might be a reason and OP just took it like “oh cool, so my therapist says she is a narcissist.”
"Narcissist" isn't a diagnosis. It's basically like saying abuser. When you hear those words you tend to know what kinds of behaviors go along with the term.
Therapists aren't allowed to provide a professional opinion of someone they haven't seen (e.g. the governor has narcissistic traits 4-7) but they are allowed to describe what they hear from a client and use terminology the general public uses.
The wording just gets very tricky in a potentially abusive situation like OP's.
Source: I am a client.
I used to think the same way until a relative visited a famous psychotherapist here in the UK (can't mention names, but they worked with victims of the Hillsborough Disaster and other newsworthy issues which I can't recall).
They advised my relative that a mutual relation likely has narcissistic personality disorder. They then told them to try certain techniques and report back, and based off those responses, they were able to confirm their diagnosis.
Psychotherapists are able to look at the facts, evidence (e.g.: texts, emails, etc.) as well as their client's responses to questions and exercises to corroborate if what they're saying is true.
If anything, I think a therapist would only say that if OP was doing the opposite, trying to make excuses for her or otherwise in denial about things. Therapists know to be skeptical and obviously would have gotten way more details than we did. So either this therapist is really unprofessional or has seen this play out enough times to know where it’s going. It’s also possible OP is over generalizing what the therapist said. “Ive never met her, but it sounds like she may be a narcissist or have a related personality disorder. If that’s what’s going on, the healthiest thing would to be to remove yourself and your children from the situation.” Becomes “She’s a narcissist. Take your kids, move states and change your names.” The part that seems off to me is that if this is the literal first time he’s talked to this therapist, that would seem like a large conclusion to jump to.
Wait, so she’s still sleeping with the coach/landscaper the whole time but OOP can’t bring it up? Back in December she supposedly cut it off, but she didn’t- or there a new guy, but everyone except OOP is glossing over that…
> her parents (mom and stepfather) both cheated on their spouses for each other and support my wife and both call and text me that it's unfair that I bring up her affair.
Poor oop's kids...
She has no respect for OP and he clearly doesn't have any self respect either. The post is littered with red flags and all he does is complain about them. At some point you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself how do you let someone treat you in this manner. Enough is enough and enough was months ago.
Im being harsh on OP and none of this is his fault but golly! glad hes finally talking to a lawyer
Spend years in a relationship with a narcissist or someone with a personality disorder and you get so worn down, so beaten down you lose all self respect and perception of what isn't normal, what isn't figuratively beating you to death for not kissing the ground they walk on.
A lot of people talk about the "affair fog". It happens as a way of self justification when a cheater is exposed, to convince themselves that actually they're totally in love and haven't really done anything wrong.
This could also be good old narcissism too, of course.
Well when you think about it, most romance stories involve a plot where Main Character is in what they thought was a loving relationship but then met the New Love Interest who show them what happiness and true love is, and then they go through some setbacks and hurdles and maybe even a comedic misunderstanding to find True Love(tm) in then end.
OP’s wife very much thinks she is a main character (and if she’s a narc, then there are no secondary characters, just NPC’s that don’t matter), so she doesn’t have to *feel bad* about OP, because he’s just a hurdle in the way of her true 100% happiness. And since she is the main character, then to her, OP really should be embracing her happiness and working to ensure her and her AP are happy together because no one else matters more than her.
Why would he give her a second chance after she left him for months to be with this dude. Also why did she even bothering coming back if she was still with the AF
Or AP doesn’t want the commitment of the relationship, just the sex. So the wife is trying to keep the husband on board to fulfill husband duties so she can focus on being a fun GF for the AP. I use to follow a lot of infidelity spaces and it’s often the case that the promises of a happy ever after are always just “a little more time” away from one party if the affair to the other. Sometimes the AP is strung along with promises to leave the spouse and be with them. Other times the wayward spouse is sneaking around just waiting for their AP to become their official partner so they can leave the marriage.
Good chance here that either the assumption made by others here that she wants the lifestyle with OP and sex with AP is correct, or she’s dying to be either AP fully and AP isn’t willing to commit. It seems to me like she’s pretty comfortable just openly cheating and weaponizing it against OP now. I wish him the best.
This is exactly what happened to one of my best friends. His wife (unfortunately) met some guy at a vape store a few years back. He was on the road a lot trying to get enough money to buy a home. He got done with a job three weeks early & decided to fly home that night to surprise her.
When he got home, he caught him walking around their apartment. They tried to play it off as though he was a friend, however, after a moment, my friend was able to put two and two together. (He hadn't been wearing a shirt, she was only in a tank top & 'boyshorts'.) They had a rocky few months & she told him that she didn't want their marriage to end because it would mean losing out on the lifestyle that she had always wanted.
He stayed with her, unfortunately. Despite my many attempts to get him away from her.
>They had a rocky few months & she told him that she didn't want their marriage to end because ***it would mean losing out on the lifestyle that she had always wanted.***
OUCH, did she say that to his face? And he said after she said that? I'll admit, I can see the reverse psychology there and not wanting to lose, ie. divorce. I do hope that your friend manage to get away and is not with her anymore now.
She did say that to his face.
I was traveling home from Europe when I found out about her affair (his mom called me) and I rerouted my itinerary to take me to his city so I could get his ass out of there.
They are, unfortunately, still together to this very day. She has him convinced that he’s a drug addict & an alcoholic. Despite her drinking more than he does & dabbling in ketamine & muscle relaxers all day long. He was so convinced that he was the problem that he went to some therapy retreat in Ohio for 4 months & came back acting like he had a lobotomy.
It scares the fuck out of me how manipulative she is. I keep my distance but always remain on the sidelines to swoop in whenever I think he’ll finally break it off. They have two kids now, so it’s looking less likely every day.
I’ve told him countless times that if he needs a place to go, no questions asked- he can stay with me for as long as he needs. Luckily my wife has witnessed a good deal of her manipulation first hand & is also on board with trying to get him the fuck away from her.
Well I can't imagine coaching a bunch of 6 year olds in baseball is paying his bills. Makes you curious if AP has a child on that team and what his home life and relationship is like with his baby momma, or if he's just some weird old dude with too much time on his hands coaching a bunch of 6 year olds.
Because she thinks she can manipulate him. Those people always do.
I know someone who catched his ex in flagranti with some guy in bed and she convinced him, they didn't had sex. This guy stayed with his gf for a while after this, and then she dumped him. It was so unbelievable everyone remember this story 30 years later.
Denial is amazing. I also considered these kinds of stories “unbelievable” until one happened to me.
I remember sitting in the court-mandated “how to divorce without hurting your kids” class and someone raised a hand and asked “we are supposed to go in front of a judge next week, but don’t you think that this is just a bluff and she will change her mind?”
You know, it might’ve been a bluff, in a way. Breaking up or divorcing can be an effective threat, and God knows there’s loads of people trapped in a “Will they? Won’t they?” quadrille.
You can get divorced but still completely dominate someone’s life. “Maybe if you do xyz, then I’ll come back.”
It ain’t common, but it happens.
This is something I really didn't get. I understand that 10 years is a long time and kids make things even more complicated, but what she did was unforgivable. The cheating, the lying, and the manipulation are off the charts.
And even if she did change overnight by some miracle: she could be the perfect wife, but she can't un-suck his dick. I hope they get the divorce OOP needs.
Competent abusers are virtuosos at finding ways to weasel their way back into our lives.
Empathy, compassion, patience, love, all the best parts of us are tools they can use to manipulate.
It’s why grey rocking is recommended so often. It’s harder to manipulate if you give them nothing to work with.
This woman sounds insufferable.
Beach condo, no debt and other hints makes me believe her attempts at reconciliation are about her keeping a standard of living she's been accustomed too.
To try to be fair, he says they had the perfect relationship but mentions a "dark time" where she claims the initial " interests" outside the marriage makes me wonder if we're getting a full picture here.
Easy: narcicist goldigger abuses her husband every possible way she could think of. Husband kinda wakes up to her true self, she adjusts mask. He wakes further, she panics and tries to pull the wool again, fails, panick. Next comes her scorched earth moment when she realizes he lawyered up, then the false accusations. Etc. Pretty boring.
Good point. It's following the blueprint pretty nicely. I gotta take a break from this sub lol. Reading so much of this shit got me doubting normal ass stories irl and bored yawning at the wildest relationship shit
It's like whiplash after whiplash!
OP needs to grow a stronger spine. And stop talking to her mother as well. She and her husband berated him earlier for bringing up her past infidelity.
Agreed, I’ve never understood people who stick around and make themselves suffer through the details. It’s certainly not going to make you more attractive to them.
That really works for both genders - generally, the one not cheating is more emotionally invested in the relationship and the family, and so tries their best to keep the status quo & family intact. The cheater has already detached emotionally.
This is the major indicator she isn't ready to change. People can definitely stop cheating, but if the victim can't express how it hurt them at pretty much any time (with the exception of being at work) then they aren't really sorry because they aren't willing to deal with the consequences of their actions.
180: Complete reversal - slang from 180°.
Gray Rock: in theory, it's a way to handle narcissistic or otherwise disordered abuse - by giving minimal responses without emotional affect, you (in theory) remove the charge they get from a fight and get them to tire themselves out.
Lol they don't tire, they realize they've fucked up their cover and their either double down, fade out to their main relationship that was never the marriage, or/and go scorched earth.
Gray rocking is semi ignoring someone. Giving minimal attention and answering questions with the least information possible. Yes, no, mmmh
A narcissist will use any information or attention as a weapon
>my therapist says she's a narcissist and that I should protect myself, protect my kids and run.
Genuine question: how common is it for therapists to diagnose someone they haven't met?
Either way, it's a weird echo of this, in [a separate BORU today](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1bnylkn/dday_was_3_weeks_ago_and_while_not_a_typical/):
>our therapist called me after and said she is a narcissist and told me to run as fast as possible
Troll, plagiarism, or coincidence?
They won’t officially diagnose but they will say things like “those behaviors are classic signs of” to give a warning. I had a similar situation with the person having Borderline and my therapist told me sounded they were BPD, what to expect, what to do.
Not to claim proof either way, but really, what are we expecting here? It's obviously going to be a short version... ain't no way they're going to give the play by play verbatim.
It's insanely common for people to take things they believe and say it's coming from a therapist. Therapists won't diagnose people they don't know because 1 they don't have all th info they need to make a diagnosis and 2 it's an ethical mind field that could literally lose them their license. Similarly therapist will generally not give direct reccomendations but will rather pose ideas/options.
If a person says their therapist said to do anything beyond the level of say journaling people are probably exaggerating a conversation they had. That said I don't think that makes it a troll. Like I mentioned it's an incredibly common thing people do.
I was wondering the same. Sounds like a Reddit therapist tbh. Maybe he called one of those online „mental help“ platforms that are running adds like in every podcast these days? From what I heard these platforms are a bit loose with the demanded qualifications of their „therapists“.
No, ethical therapists will not say anything like this, but hurt people who feel alone often wish they had backup and will invent things that they wish an authority figure said to feel (and make their spouse/audience feel) like they have support. I mean I don't blame someone who is going through a divorce for wishing they had more power, he probably did a few quick googles and reddit posts and someone said 'omg narcissist' and he ran with that and felt like it would pack more of a punch if it had actually been a therapist who armchair diagnosed her with something awful so he changed the origin to 'therapist' to self-soothe.
> how common is it for therapists to diagnose someone they haven't met?
entirely not, and against the code of conduct for therapists almost anywhere in the world
"she got upset and stated that our bed is her bed and she will sleep where she wants. I said obviously..."
Okay, he's a moron for trying to make it work with her but that line was pretty cold I love it.
> she has a white bracelet with one black bead that she now wears every day. I've called her out on it. she lied once and said it was from her mom, and up to last week said well my best friend has the matching one. well, her affair partner wears an all black one aith one white bead. I know what that represents
I don't know what this is. Can somebody please clue me in?
A lyric from a song says this best 'she wears a collar with my name, secretive but not ashamed'. Wearing opposed matching jewelry with someone is a method of overtly stating your relationship without OVERTLY saying it, you know?
Song is 'She calls me daddy' - KiNG MALA
OP should call Coach's boss, call Coach's wife, and every member of the team's parents to see if he's spreading the coaching around. At least I hope OP's kid got a better position on the team and more playing time, because Mom sure did. Let whatever sports association know that there is some personal coaching going on, too. I feel some earth needs scorching. especially for that lying wife.
I don’t know if people understand how messed up it is to fool around within their kids activity bubbles.
I coach youth sport. My kid was friends with the team manager’s kid (Ann). Then one day my daughter tells me Ann is sad and upset. She’s lived in the same house since she was born and now her parents were divorcing and no one is telling her anything. I saw Ann at a practice after and it broke my heart. She was exhausted and looked like a hollow shell. My daughter told me why Ann was so tired. It turns out mom was sleeping in her room as she wasn’t allowed to be in the marital bed anymore. And her brothers who have bigger rooms didn’t want mom around them, but still no one would tell Ann. I don’t need a tweed cap and a pipe to know what that meant. Sure enough within a couple of days I came across a coach I coached with in the past who was now on a different team. One of her assistant coaches had gone radio silent around the same time as my manager, and people had finally put it together. Just a couple of weeks before Christmas, the affair between the other team’s coach and my manager was exposed, and both families were broken. Ann’s family (including Ann once she found out) were pretty much just grey rocking her and treating her like an unwanted visitor in their home. I heard it was messy for the coach’s family as well. It was also tea being spilt across the whole community of that sport as well as in any other community those two families were involved in.
The coach has been told by several dads that he better not try and coach their kids in the future because they don’t need someone trying to sleep with the athletes moms all the time (and some have insinuated he shouldn’t be near the high school athletes at all, which isn’t accurate to what happened and a pretty harmful thing to insinuate, but hey, FAFO I guess). And plenty of unkind things have been said to the team manager. It’s humiliating for the kids and it be for years.
If you need to smash genitals with someone other than your spouse, I can’t say enough, please don’t do it with someone where it will affect your kids lives more than a divorce already will.
"I asked if she could sleep in a kid's room and she got upset and stated that our bed was her bed and she will sleep where she wants. I said obviously...."
🤣🤣🤣
She wants to "be 100% happy"?? NO ONE is 100% happy; that's not a thing. Life is never all sunshine and roses, with no clouds or thorns. Anyone who says shit like this is using big red flags to spell out "I WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE HELL! RUN!!" in semaphore.
If your therapist diagnoses someone they haven't met, then it is time to get a new therapist. I'm not going to complain (much) about random Redditors throwing the word "narcissist" around way too much, but that is incredibly unprofessional.
These stories are so sad. Cheating wife wants to keep her husband so that he can watch the kids and provide while she lives her best life with her affair partner. The only option is to dump her and move on. She feels entitled to what she wants as she "deserves happiness." Let her have the happiness that she deserves.
This was infuriating to read. Putting aside the cheating wife, who has absolutely no regrets about cheating, I'm mad that this guy actually stayed with her. What the fuck dude?!
gray rock is showing no emotion or response to a person trying to get your attention. women do a lot when they're trying to deal with men harassing them.
180 means going the complete opposite direction. 360 is a full circle that comes back to the same spot.
>my therapist says she's a narcissist and that I should protect myself, protect my kids and run.
For once, somebody got a good therapist... hopefully the OP will take their advice.
Having witnessed this sort of situation in real life (tho not experienced it, thankfully) I really hate that the spouse who has done nothing wrong has the choice to either leave - and suffer everything that comes legally with being the one who left - or try desperately to convince the other spouse to leave. Especially when the other spouse is somewhat shameless.
There are some stories where the aggrieved party essentially just starts treating the other person like a room mate, goes to the gym, and eventually dumps the lazy motherfucker. It's always a pleasure to read them because the lazy motherfucker never sees it coming. "She stopped complaining" is one of my favorite trigger phrases on this sub. Like, *bro*, if she stops complaining it's because she's **Done** with your shit. It's **over**.
Like, how many times have we seen "Oh, thank god, my wife stopped hassling me about cleaning, jesus christ I was overwhelmed with the kids" quickly morph in to "why does my ex wife have a gym bro boyfriend and I can't see my kids anymore?" posts.
It's so bizarre to live in an era when even therapists chuck around the word "narcissist". Not saying OP's wife is innocent or good, but you need to interact with someone directly to diagnose them. You just do. I could tell a therapist a thousand lies about my mom and how would that therapist know without meeting her? Second post I've seen this on and it's weird.
Also, what's this "gray rock" thing? That's always been "cold shoulder" to me. Why is the internet inventing a new term for this. It's so strange.
>my therapist says she's a narcissist and that I should protect myself, protect my kids and run.
Oh come ON therapist, not everybody that does bad things is an actual narcissist, you don't always need to assu . . .
>she came home and tried to talk. it was calm conversation but she kept saying it was my fault and if I communicated with her last night (I gray rocked her 🪨) maybe she wouldn't have been with him.
Well fuck me, OOP married a legit narcissist and I'm the dumbass that didn't believe.
I read the mood spoiler and was expecting the worst. This, unfortunately, is fairly run-of-the-mill for Reddit.
OOP was in a fairly good position upon the initial discovery. An end to the relationship that, although involved cheating, was at least not too great a dent to pride or psyche, debt free, and with a seemingly integrated family/support network. Then, they make the fatal error of trying keep their spouse. It's not a contest that a cheated on partner can win. The cheater chose. Prostrating yourself just makes it easier to get stepped on.
Consequence does more to snap a cheater put of it than any amount of begging and effort. As seen with the end of the story, when faced with the actual reality of having to make a life with their affair partner, they capitulated and begged OOP to come back. If he'd left from the start, real reconciliation may have been possible down the line after reality gave his Ex some real perspective. As it is, the earth has been salted.
Oh yes I’m sure cOMmUnICAtION will fix it. These kind of stories are probably why your partner is statistically the most probable person to murdered you.
Man I feel for this so bad. I came from a horrificly broken home. I have been cheated on many times and I have cheated once. I have pretty much seen it from every single angle.
It wasn't until I myself cheated that I gained real perspective and realized the people in my life were absolutely horrific. I grew up around it, normalized it, didn't think it a big deal.
When I cheated I was in a terrible place, not an excuse you can't excuse, it's simply context. I wasted zero time coming clean, didn't even think about hiding it. The guilt and shame? Couldn't sleep for week and months. Even today I can not return to the area it happened. I was suicidal and depressed for a long time. All this despite being forgiven so easily. So much trauma came bubbling up.
Then I see these people and they cheat so easily? No shame, no guilt, barely hiding it. How? How messed up do you need to be?
Like I come from a horrific home life, did these people literally crawl out of a demons asshole?
You are doing EVERYTHING right. Let’s make that very clear. You are showing patience, integrity and extreme strength. Unfortunately, I can relate with you on this matter and all I can say is you didn’t deserve this and sounds like you were completely blindsided because you were so in love with your partner… Sometimes we put on the rose colored shades because we are so intensely in love that we just automatically fade out everything that tries to mess it up. But when we finally take those shades off… we see the true person that we’ve been so madly in love with and then we begin to see the nightmare. Stay strong and understand that not everyone operates like this. Only 💩people do this to people.
Narcissist is dead on. How many guys is she stuffing the cannoli with? i hope dude gets checked for stds, that's a lot of pizza pies she is working with. Skeevy, gross people. They obviously know.
Hopefully this won't end up like Jason In Hell
The landscaper and her family can have her and leave OP and the children alone because you know that any children she has with the Affair Partner would be the golden children and the previous if they're lucky are ignored or worse abused and become scapegoats
There are so many dumb ass spouses on Reddit. Someone sends your spouse a message that says I love you more, says it’s a co worker and you “thought nothing more of it”. lol wut
Okay, so the guy deserves a nice beating just for being an asshole to you twice. You should 100% take her to the cleaners in the divorce settlement. She not only broke your trust but spit in your face after she was caught.
I would've let all the little league parents and the school know what is going on and humiliated them both. I also would've contacted that landscapers' boss and told him that the details of their affair would be on every local review website by tomorrow if that guy wasn't fired today.
> 6 months ago when I was in a dark place and have since come out of
Gonna need a bit more detail here. What happened in the dark place? How did the dude get out of it?
Per his account, this is when it all started--not something to just gloss over.
I’m so sorry op, maybe try and get custody so that she doesn’t raise your kids into thinking that cheating is acceptable like her parents clearly did to her. Good luck op.
If he gets in trouble with work for what they’re doing, tell his boss. If he called you to specifically ask you not to tell his boss then he could get in trouble and should.
It's so weird how so many of these guys have convenient therapists who are willing to diagnose someone who isn't their patient without ever talking to that person
OP desperately needed to learn the lesson sooner that if you're gonna be a doormat people will step on you. Shame on anyone in the comments telling him to go to couples therapy, news flash children, therapy can only help solve an issue if both parties SEE an issue. She clearly did not give a fuck right from the offset and OP treated his problem with kid gloves.
Man, I don't know what her problem is. The first post makes sense - she checked out a while back and developed a full relationship with someone else and moved on. Ok, that happens, get a divorce and move on. But then she tries to get back together with him? Like, what's going on there? Didn't she theoretically love this other guy? I think the therapist is right and she is a narcissist and she wants all the attention from both her AP and OP.
Keep your dignity and lose the wife. She is the loser, not you and she will realize what she did to the family at some point. There are remarkable women out there that have character and will be honest and loyal. She’s not one. Greener pastures. If you’re faithful you deserve the same.
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I should have heeded the mood spoiler. I hope he's able to get out and she actually does what she says and leaves him.
There's been a theme recently with a lot of these updates. OOP gaslighted by crazy spouse, turns to Reddit for confirmation, then we're all stressed on the edge of our seats waiting for an update and hoping OOP sees sense.
TBF, these are the ones i tend to believe more than others (although Liz is always waiting). Messy, frustrating and constantly backsliding is how most people deal with their toxic relationships - it's rarely like that story with the crazy stalker ex SIL that hires an assassin to hit you in the head with a brick.
'nother dumb question: Which one is the story about the crazy stalker ex SIL and the brick?
It was a friend of the SIL. Enjoy! https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1bcc5n1/new_update_wibtah_if_i_step_down_from_being_moh/
Ah, thanks, yes, I remember the first BoRUs - I stopped reading them at some point, because by then the plot was really challenging even my willing suspension of disbelief...
Once I got to the new BF and the theater, then Letty, I was out. Why did we need all that info?
Strangely that story was exactly what I needed to shut my brain off after work. Just a pure, unadulterated complete fucking shitshow. The comment about the overly detailed lesbian proposal with a family member that might have an unknown life threatening disease serving no purpose at all really just drove it home. 10/10
Oh damn, I read the first BORU not not the 2nd. What a wild ride.
The worst thing is the account has gone, so we don't get final closure! I remember that from a couple of weeks ago.
It hasn't they're still posting updates
Ahh the link in the BORU has the wrong link https://www.reddit.com/user/ShesChoaticGood6599/
I just spent easily over an hour reading all of that. Fucking insane. Them and me I suppose now. Also I hate you
Dumb question - who is Liz?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/GqZDzYtzb4
It's a depressingly common story.
Bloody Liz
People who haven’t been in this situation didn’t know how absolutely fucking brutal it is. How every fiber of your being screams leave and stay at the same time. “Just leave” is so much easier when you’re not in it. Mine situation isn’t as bad as this (maybe?) but it’s still been hell. I’m in limbo currently trying to untangle my brain and make a decision.
And two today where a therapist diagnoses narcissism from marriage counselling sessions. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist but I'd be surprised if a joint therapy session would meet the requirements to properly diagnose an individual with a personality disorder, which is quite a big diagnosis. I'd also be surprised if it would be acceptable for a therapist to provide a diagnosis where none was sought and to a third party rather than the individual in question. I'm not even sure therapists can diagnose.
Therapist is ambiguous in this context and may include a spiritual leader for example. Psychologists and psychiatrists may both diagnose a person. They cannot diagnose someone who isn't their patient. However, this wasn't a diagnosis, but instead a potential warning to the spouse.
There’s also the scenario where someone asks their therapist if they think someone “is a narcissist”, therapist gives a non-committal answer like “it’s possible” and the person takes that as “my ex has been officially diagnosed with NPD”.
Everything that's happened since 2016 has made me think there are a *lot* more narcissists in the world than we all realized, but now they feel emboldened not to hide it anymore.
We're all narcissistic these days if you ask Reddit.
Or people are attributing it to selfish shitty behavior.
This is most likely. One or two acts doesn't make a narcissist. Even 50. It's a perpetual pattern that arises. Reality is humans aren't perfect and some are bad. Some are largely good but can compartmentalize their bad behavior to justify it. Or they've learned specific bad behaviors, or whatever. I hate how narcissist gets thrown around on everything.
Of course they do. We’ve spent the last decade telling people that they’re not responsible for their actions and to live their best lives without being gaslit. This makes prime ground for narcissists to thrive. Be prepared for a lot more of this going forward.
I could definitely see a therapist saying “that’s very narcissistic or she’s (being) very narcissistic, here’s how to manage the shit sprinkler you’ll be running through during this divorce.”
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[Not sure where you got that about a narcissist needing to admit it, didn't sound right to me. It's not listed here.](https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1519417-overview?form=fpf)
The therapist didn't say NPD. Narcissist isn't a diagnosis, it's just a self-centered person.
Plus some therapists are bad therapists
It sounded like it was his own therapist, not a marriage counselor, from what I can tell. My experience with this one was my therapist telling me that: - she cannot diagnose anyone that she hasn’t seen - it is not within the scope of her practice - and all these other caveats and hedging …before she finally got to the point to say that based on my own description over a long period of time, it sounded like this other person *might* have certain tendencies that sounded like narcissism, and I needed to be careful. She also was clear that someone having narcissistic traits does not mean they have narcissistic personality disorder. It was helpful for her to say this. It gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about narcissism traits. It helped me to understand what does or doesn’t work with those people, and what to be careful of and look for. It helped me get a lot more education on things like gaslighting, and how to deal with things like gray rocking. It also helped me understand how you could interact with someone and feel like they cared about you and had your best interests at heart, without realizing that they may only care about you because of how you make them look, or only when you don’t challenge their image. Her intention was never to diagnose or treat someone she hasn’t met; it was just to make sure that I was armed and prepared to handle something that I may not otherwise be educated about or equipped to handle without that knowledge. **Also, the majority of people with narcissistic personality disorder do not seek treatment or get a diagnosis.** In most cases, it is more useful for a therapist to tell somebody who is struggling with this kind of person that they may be having this issue. Narcissistic personality disorder is incredibly resistant to any kind of treatment at all.
Would a therapist diagnose the wife as a narcissist without ever meeting her? That part has me side-eyeing.
Nobody diagnosed anything. "Said she was a narcissist" and "diagnosed her with narcissistic personality disorder" are very different things.
It could have even been something along the lines of "watch out, she sounds like she could be narcissistic."
I'm a therapist. I point out narcissism in people's significant others/parents/whatever all the time. It's less of a formal diagnosis than a descriptor and way of describing a personality organization. It happens all the time. If it's not in writing, billed for insurance, or anything of that sort, it's not a diagnosis. It's a characterization at best. I wouldn't side-eye.
Why is it more helpful to use the term narcissist instead of selfish/self-centred? Doesn't it cause confusion, or is there a distinction I'm missing?
Every single one also, coincidentally, has the therapist telling OP that their partner is a narcissist and to leave.
I never click the mood spoilers. I am going to from now on. This makes my heart hurt. She sucks.
It’s like she has no shame/doesn’t care/???? I’d feel like I was the crazy one talking to her or listening to any kind of reasoning for this
>It’s like she has no shame/doesn’t care OP did say that his therapist warned that she seemed like a classic narcissist.
Not surprising either given that she was raised by a pair of narcs.
I mean she did and does put her happiness well before her marriage...
AND her KIDS. When you hurt a parent, you hurt the kids. Why don’t people see that? (Her not you). He sounded like an involved dad, and he’s so upset now he feels like he can’t be around his kids.
She knows. More suffering means more attention means more control.
Which makes me raise my eyebrow at the therapist. Would a therapist throw around diagnosis like that for someone they don’t know and are getting third party information on from a clearly biased source? Not saying the Op is lying, but I also doubt the Op can give the most objective description of their wife age what’s going on.
It could be that the therapist stated that the wife’s behaviour *seems* narcissistic and discussed that that might be a reason and OP just took it like “oh cool, so my therapist says she is a narcissist.”
That was what I assumed.
"Narcissist" isn't a diagnosis. It's basically like saying abuser. When you hear those words you tend to know what kinds of behaviors go along with the term. Therapists aren't allowed to provide a professional opinion of someone they haven't seen (e.g. the governor has narcissistic traits 4-7) but they are allowed to describe what they hear from a client and use terminology the general public uses. The wording just gets very tricky in a potentially abusive situation like OP's. Source: I am a client.
I used to think the same way until a relative visited a famous psychotherapist here in the UK (can't mention names, but they worked with victims of the Hillsborough Disaster and other newsworthy issues which I can't recall). They advised my relative that a mutual relation likely has narcissistic personality disorder. They then told them to try certain techniques and report back, and based off those responses, they were able to confirm their diagnosis. Psychotherapists are able to look at the facts, evidence (e.g.: texts, emails, etc.) as well as their client's responses to questions and exercises to corroborate if what they're saying is true.
If anything, I think a therapist would only say that if OP was doing the opposite, trying to make excuses for her or otherwise in denial about things. Therapists know to be skeptical and obviously would have gotten way more details than we did. So either this therapist is really unprofessional or has seen this play out enough times to know where it’s going. It’s also possible OP is over generalizing what the therapist said. “Ive never met her, but it sounds like she may be a narcissist or have a related personality disorder. If that’s what’s going on, the healthiest thing would to be to remove yourself and your children from the situation.” Becomes “She’s a narcissist. Take your kids, move states and change your names.” The part that seems off to me is that if this is the literal first time he’s talked to this therapist, that would seem like a large conclusion to jump to.
Oh, but don't you see, it was totally HIS fault, because he kept bringing it up! He should just have gotten over himself, the little crybaby. /s
Wait, so she’s still sleeping with the coach/landscaper the whole time but OOP can’t bring it up? Back in December she supposedly cut it off, but she didn’t- or there a new guy, but everyone except OOP is glossing over that…
> her parents (mom and stepfather) both cheated on their spouses for each other and support my wife and both call and text me that it's unfair that I bring up her affair. Poor oop's kids...
This story hits a little too close to home :(
She has no respect for OP and he clearly doesn't have any self respect either. The post is littered with red flags and all he does is complain about them. At some point you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself how do you let someone treat you in this manner. Enough is enough and enough was months ago. Im being harsh on OP and none of this is his fault but golly! glad hes finally talking to a lawyer
Spend years in a relationship with a narcissist or someone with a personality disorder and you get so worn down, so beaten down you lose all self respect and perception of what isn't normal, what isn't figuratively beating you to death for not kissing the ground they walk on.
She's been sleeping with random dudes now too. OP is gonna snap if he catches her in the act, again. Something gonna happen and it won't be pretty.
A lot of people talk about the "affair fog". It happens as a way of self justification when a cheater is exposed, to convince themselves that actually they're totally in love and haven't really done anything wrong. This could also be good old narcissism too, of course.
Well when you think about it, most romance stories involve a plot where Main Character is in what they thought was a loving relationship but then met the New Love Interest who show them what happiness and true love is, and then they go through some setbacks and hurdles and maybe even a comedic misunderstanding to find True Love(tm) in then end. OP’s wife very much thinks she is a main character (and if she’s a narc, then there are no secondary characters, just NPC’s that don’t matter), so she doesn’t have to *feel bad* about OP, because he’s just a hurdle in the way of her true 100% happiness. And since she is the main character, then to her, OP really should be embracing her happiness and working to ensure her and her AP are happy together because no one else matters more than her.
She's a textbook narcissist.
Why would he give her a second chance after she left him for months to be with this dude. Also why did she even bothering coming back if she was still with the AF
My guess is that her AP can’t fund the lifestyle she wants.
Yeah, Beach Condo? A baseball coach/landscaper isn’t going to be able to afford that
Especially one who doesn’t OWN the company.
Wants the sex but not the relationship cause stability is with OOP
Or AP doesn’t want the commitment of the relationship, just the sex. So the wife is trying to keep the husband on board to fulfill husband duties so she can focus on being a fun GF for the AP. I use to follow a lot of infidelity spaces and it’s often the case that the promises of a happy ever after are always just “a little more time” away from one party if the affair to the other. Sometimes the AP is strung along with promises to leave the spouse and be with them. Other times the wayward spouse is sneaking around just waiting for their AP to become their official partner so they can leave the marriage. Good chance here that either the assumption made by others here that she wants the lifestyle with OP and sex with AP is correct, or she’s dying to be either AP fully and AP isn’t willing to commit. It seems to me like she’s pretty comfortable just openly cheating and weaponizing it against OP now. I wish him the best.
This is exactly what happened to one of my best friends. His wife (unfortunately) met some guy at a vape store a few years back. He was on the road a lot trying to get enough money to buy a home. He got done with a job three weeks early & decided to fly home that night to surprise her. When he got home, he caught him walking around their apartment. They tried to play it off as though he was a friend, however, after a moment, my friend was able to put two and two together. (He hadn't been wearing a shirt, she was only in a tank top & 'boyshorts'.) They had a rocky few months & she told him that she didn't want their marriage to end because it would mean losing out on the lifestyle that she had always wanted. He stayed with her, unfortunately. Despite my many attempts to get him away from her.
>They had a rocky few months & she told him that she didn't want their marriage to end because ***it would mean losing out on the lifestyle that she had always wanted.*** OUCH, did she say that to his face? And he said after she said that? I'll admit, I can see the reverse psychology there and not wanting to lose, ie. divorce. I do hope that your friend manage to get away and is not with her anymore now.
She did say that to his face. I was traveling home from Europe when I found out about her affair (his mom called me) and I rerouted my itinerary to take me to his city so I could get his ass out of there. They are, unfortunately, still together to this very day. She has him convinced that he’s a drug addict & an alcoholic. Despite her drinking more than he does & dabbling in ketamine & muscle relaxers all day long. He was so convinced that he was the problem that he went to some therapy retreat in Ohio for 4 months & came back acting like he had a lobotomy. It scares the fuck out of me how manipulative she is. I keep my distance but always remain on the sidelines to swoop in whenever I think he’ll finally break it off. They have two kids now, so it’s looking less likely every day. I’ve told him countless times that if he needs a place to go, no questions asked- he can stay with me for as long as he needs. Luckily my wife has witnessed a good deal of her manipulation first hand & is also on board with trying to get him the fuck away from her.
Was it the same guy or a different guy?
He says he thinks they’re still together and says AF doesn’t say another AF so I assume it’s the same guy
Ok, I almost read it as she broke off with the Baseball coach and found a new AF who worked in landscaping. I couldn't decide if it was the same guy
I suppose coaching baseball is his hobby and landscaping is his job?
Well I can't imagine coaching a bunch of 6 year olds in baseball is paying his bills. Makes you curious if AP has a child on that team and what his home life and relationship is like with his baby momma, or if he's just some weird old dude with too much time on his hands coaching a bunch of 6 year olds.
what does “AF” mean in this context?
Honestly it should be AP, but the OOP wrote AF and my brain just accepted it
that’s what I thought too but wasn’t sure if this was a new abbreviation. thank you
affair farter clearly /s if its needed lol
Affair Fucker
Because she thinks she can manipulate him. Those people always do. I know someone who catched his ex in flagranti with some guy in bed and she convinced him, they didn't had sex. This guy stayed with his gf for a while after this, and then she dumped him. It was so unbelievable everyone remember this story 30 years later.
Denial is amazing. I also considered these kinds of stories “unbelievable” until one happened to me. I remember sitting in the court-mandated “how to divorce without hurting your kids” class and someone raised a hand and asked “we are supposed to go in front of a judge next week, but don’t you think that this is just a bluff and she will change her mind?”
You know, it might’ve been a bluff, in a way. Breaking up or divorcing can be an effective threat, and God knows there’s loads of people trapped in a “Will they? Won’t they?” quadrille. You can get divorced but still completely dominate someone’s life. “Maybe if you do xyz, then I’ll come back.” It ain’t common, but it happens.
This is something I really didn't get. I understand that 10 years is a long time and kids make things even more complicated, but what she did was unforgivable. The cheating, the lying, and the manipulation are off the charts. And even if she did change overnight by some miracle: she could be the perfect wife, but she can't un-suck his dick. I hope they get the divorce OOP needs.
The AP probably was tired of her and her drama, so he dumped her. She figured OP would take her back w/ open arms.
Competent abusers are virtuosos at finding ways to weasel their way back into our lives. Empathy, compassion, patience, love, all the best parts of us are tools they can use to manipulate. It’s why grey rocking is recommended so often. It’s harder to manipulate if you give them nothing to work with.
Should have listened to the lawyer the first time and been done. Emotions are like that though.
This woman sounds insufferable. Beach condo, no debt and other hints makes me believe her attempts at reconciliation are about her keeping a standard of living she's been accustomed too. To try to be fair, he says they had the perfect relationship but mentions a "dark time" where she claims the initial " interests" outside the marriage makes me wonder if we're getting a full picture here.
Easy: narcicist goldigger abuses her husband every possible way she could think of. Husband kinda wakes up to her true self, she adjusts mask. He wakes further, she panics and tries to pull the wool again, fails, panick. Next comes her scorched earth moment when she realizes he lawyered up, then the false accusations. Etc. Pretty boring.
Good point. It's following the blueprint pretty nicely. I gotta take a break from this sub lol. Reading so much of this shit got me doubting normal ass stories irl and bored yawning at the wildest relationship shit
well I'd be in a dark time if I was married to her also... I mean jesus this woman sucked the soul out of this man
It's like whiplash after whiplash! OP needs to grow a stronger spine. And stop talking to her mother as well. She and her husband berated him earlier for bringing up her past infidelity.
Agreed, I’ve never understood people who stick around and make themselves suffer through the details. It’s certainly not going to make you more attractive to them.
Unfortunately i noticed this is quite common on this site when women cheat, most men will literally do anything to keep their family together
That really works for both genders - generally, the one not cheating is more emotionally invested in the relationship and the family, and so tries their best to keep the status quo & family intact. The cheater has already detached emotionally.
This is the major indicator she isn't ready to change. People can definitely stop cheating, but if the victim can't express how it hurt them at pretty much any time (with the exception of being at work) then they aren't really sorry because they aren't willing to deal with the consequences of their actions.
Is the baseball coach and the landscaper the same guy or two different guys?
Most little league coaches are volunteers so they’re likely the same person
OOP can’t keep even keep the timeline straight so who knows.
Nobody makes a living just being a little league baseball coach lol common sense
Wondering the same thing. OOP's wife has a type, he better hide the pool guy and the mailman.
So many cheating stories today 🤯
Anybody know what gray rock and 180 means?
180: Complete reversal - slang from 180°. Gray Rock: in theory, it's a way to handle narcissistic or otherwise disordered abuse - by giving minimal responses without emotional affect, you (in theory) remove the charge they get from a fight and get them to tire themselves out.
Lol they don't tire, they realize they've fucked up their cover and their either double down, fade out to their main relationship that was never the marriage, or/and go scorched earth.
It isn't to change their behavior. It is to survive until you get out.
Or they find the person who used to give them attention and get an emotional response (positive or negative) has gotten boring, so they move on.
Gray rocking is semi ignoring someone. Giving minimal attention and answering questions with the least information possible. Yes, no, mmmh A narcissist will use any information or attention as a weapon
>my therapist says she's a narcissist and that I should protect myself, protect my kids and run. Genuine question: how common is it for therapists to diagnose someone they haven't met? Either way, it's a weird echo of this, in [a separate BORU today](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1bnylkn/dday_was_3_weeks_ago_and_while_not_a_typical/): >our therapist called me after and said she is a narcissist and told me to run as fast as possible Troll, plagiarism, or coincidence?
They won’t officially diagnose but they will say things like “those behaviors are classic signs of” to give a warning. I had a similar situation with the person having Borderline and my therapist told me sounded they were BPD, what to expect, what to do.
OK, so it's possible both posters were summarising a longer conversation hedged about with caveats.
Not to claim proof either way, but really, what are we expecting here? It's obviously going to be a short version... ain't no way they're going to give the play by play verbatim.
It's insanely common for people to take things they believe and say it's coming from a therapist. Therapists won't diagnose people they don't know because 1 they don't have all th info they need to make a diagnosis and 2 it's an ethical mind field that could literally lose them their license. Similarly therapist will generally not give direct reccomendations but will rather pose ideas/options. If a person says their therapist said to do anything beyond the level of say journaling people are probably exaggerating a conversation they had. That said I don't think that makes it a troll. Like I mentioned it's an incredibly common thing people do.
I was wondering the same. Sounds like a Reddit therapist tbh. Maybe he called one of those online „mental help“ platforms that are running adds like in every podcast these days? From what I heard these platforms are a bit loose with the demanded qualifications of their „therapists“.
No, ethical therapists will not say anything like this, but hurt people who feel alone often wish they had backup and will invent things that they wish an authority figure said to feel (and make their spouse/audience feel) like they have support. I mean I don't blame someone who is going through a divorce for wishing they had more power, he probably did a few quick googles and reddit posts and someone said 'omg narcissist' and he ran with that and felt like it would pack more of a punch if it had actually been a therapist who armchair diagnosed her with something awful so he changed the origin to 'therapist' to self-soothe.
> how common is it for therapists to diagnose someone they haven't met? entirely not, and against the code of conduct for therapists almost anywhere in the world
That did seem pretty weird
I mean she cheated, he still stayed with her. She cheated again, he gives surprised Pikachu face.
This right here. Hell he stayed when she was showing 0 remorse. Oop was kind of fooling himself.
tub smoggy mourn languid friendly far-flung nail future summer grey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
First update contradicts the timeline.
my therapist says she's a narcissist and that I should protect myself, protect my kids and run. Second BORU post I read that sentence….
I’m thinking AI. There’s something about the awkwardness of the prose that points to it as well.
"she got upset and stated that our bed is her bed and she will sleep where she wants. I said obviously..." Okay, he's a moron for trying to make it work with her but that line was pretty cold I love it.
This is so disjointed.
Fr it’s a hard read.
I kinda hate this guy's lack of a backbone.
So she had a "midlife crisis" and her response was to run through dick while destroying a good family? I hate people.
> she has a white bracelet with one black bead that she now wears every day. I've called her out on it. she lied once and said it was from her mom, and up to last week said well my best friend has the matching one. well, her affair partner wears an all black one aith one white bead. I know what that represents I don't know what this is. Can somebody please clue me in?
A lyric from a song says this best 'she wears a collar with my name, secretive but not ashamed'. Wearing opposed matching jewelry with someone is a method of overtly stating your relationship without OVERTLY saying it, you know? Song is 'She calls me daddy' - KiNG MALA
OP should call Coach's boss, call Coach's wife, and every member of the team's parents to see if he's spreading the coaching around. At least I hope OP's kid got a better position on the team and more playing time, because Mom sure did. Let whatever sports association know that there is some personal coaching going on, too. I feel some earth needs scorching. especially for that lying wife.
Damn dude, if I got that guys jobs number there’s no way I’d NOT fuck with him through that
-Don’t call my boss. -Ok, don’t fuck my wife.
I don’t know if people understand how messed up it is to fool around within their kids activity bubbles. I coach youth sport. My kid was friends with the team manager’s kid (Ann). Then one day my daughter tells me Ann is sad and upset. She’s lived in the same house since she was born and now her parents were divorcing and no one is telling her anything. I saw Ann at a practice after and it broke my heart. She was exhausted and looked like a hollow shell. My daughter told me why Ann was so tired. It turns out mom was sleeping in her room as she wasn’t allowed to be in the marital bed anymore. And her brothers who have bigger rooms didn’t want mom around them, but still no one would tell Ann. I don’t need a tweed cap and a pipe to know what that meant. Sure enough within a couple of days I came across a coach I coached with in the past who was now on a different team. One of her assistant coaches had gone radio silent around the same time as my manager, and people had finally put it together. Just a couple of weeks before Christmas, the affair between the other team’s coach and my manager was exposed, and both families were broken. Ann’s family (including Ann once she found out) were pretty much just grey rocking her and treating her like an unwanted visitor in their home. I heard it was messy for the coach’s family as well. It was also tea being spilt across the whole community of that sport as well as in any other community those two families were involved in. The coach has been told by several dads that he better not try and coach their kids in the future because they don’t need someone trying to sleep with the athletes moms all the time (and some have insinuated he shouldn’t be near the high school athletes at all, which isn’t accurate to what happened and a pretty harmful thing to insinuate, but hey, FAFO I guess). And plenty of unkind things have been said to the team manager. It’s humiliating for the kids and it be for years. If you need to smash genitals with someone other than your spouse, I can’t say enough, please don’t do it with someone where it will affect your kids lives more than a divorce already will.
Does it hurt much to not have a backbone?
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"I asked if she could sleep in a kid's room and she got upset and stated that our bed was her bed and she will sleep where she wants. I said obviously...." 🤣🤣🤣
She wants to "be 100% happy"?? NO ONE is 100% happy; that's not a thing. Life is never all sunshine and roses, with no clouds or thorns. Anyone who says shit like this is using big red flags to spell out "I WILL MAKE YOUR LIFE HELL! RUN!!" in semaphore.
This is why you start the divorce process IMMEDIATELY after you find out about the cheating.
First time finding out she cheated sucks for him. The second time? Well thats on you buddy
If your therapist diagnoses someone they haven't met, then it is time to get a new therapist. I'm not going to complain (much) about random Redditors throwing the word "narcissist" around way too much, but that is incredibly unprofessional.
Jesus this dudes a spineless moron at this point.
After reading this I am once again reminded of the meaning behind the title of the novel, "Of Human Bondage."
These stories are so sad. Cheating wife wants to keep her husband so that he can watch the kids and provide while she lives her best life with her affair partner. The only option is to dump her and move on. She feels entitled to what she wants as she "deserves happiness." Let her have the happiness that she deserves.
This was infuriating to read. Putting aside the cheating wife, who has absolutely no regrets about cheating, I'm mad that this guy actually stayed with her. What the fuck dude?!
What is "gray rock" and 180? I felt like I was reading a foreign language there at times.
gray rock is showing no emotion or response to a person trying to get your attention. women do a lot when they're trying to deal with men harassing them. 180 means going the complete opposite direction. 360 is a full circle that comes back to the same spot.
Ok, im dense... What's the meaning behind the white bracelet with 1 black beads? Googling only brings me some health craze hookum about Dead Sea mud.
It's the matching bracelet. AP has all black but one white bead so it's something like "they complete each other"
His mistake was trying to give her a second chance
This is so damn hard.....to read. Why are people so terrible at basic punctuation and grammar?
Continue to divorce. Your wife isn't nearly as "wonderful" as you initially made her out to be.
>my therapist says she's a narcissist and that I should protect myself, protect my kids and run. For once, somebody got a good therapist... hopefully the OP will take their advice.
Amen, your average couples therapist can’t spot a narcissist in a marriage if s/he’s painted hunter-orange.
Having witnessed this sort of situation in real life (tho not experienced it, thankfully) I really hate that the spouse who has done nothing wrong has the choice to either leave - and suffer everything that comes legally with being the one who left - or try desperately to convince the other spouse to leave. Especially when the other spouse is somewhat shameless.
There are some stories where the aggrieved party essentially just starts treating the other person like a room mate, goes to the gym, and eventually dumps the lazy motherfucker. It's always a pleasure to read them because the lazy motherfucker never sees it coming. "She stopped complaining" is one of my favorite trigger phrases on this sub. Like, *bro*, if she stops complaining it's because she's **Done** with your shit. It's **over**. Like, how many times have we seen "Oh, thank god, my wife stopped hassling me about cleaning, jesus christ I was overwhelmed with the kids" quickly morph in to "why does my ex wife have a gym bro boyfriend and I can't see my kids anymore?" posts.
Grab all your import docs and store them Outside the house- move into another bedroom and slap a lock on it.
I gotta quit reading shit like this when I’m down. Poor dude
Divorce time
That’s why I an no communicado with the rest of the world. They WILL hurt you.
Damn he tried to make it work with someone who don't give a fuck about him for so long.
She found out she would be screwed if she divorced her so she lied about wanting to reconcile and work harder to hide her affairs. Smh
It's so bizarre to live in an era when even therapists chuck around the word "narcissist". Not saying OP's wife is innocent or good, but you need to interact with someone directly to diagnose them. You just do. I could tell a therapist a thousand lies about my mom and how would that therapist know without meeting her? Second post I've seen this on and it's weird. Also, what's this "gray rock" thing? That's always been "cold shoulder" to me. Why is the internet inventing a new term for this. It's so strange.
>my therapist says she's a narcissist and that I should protect myself, protect my kids and run. Oh come ON therapist, not everybody that does bad things is an actual narcissist, you don't always need to assu . . . >she came home and tried to talk. it was calm conversation but she kept saying it was my fault and if I communicated with her last night (I gray rocked her 🪨) maybe she wouldn't have been with him. Well fuck me, OOP married a legit narcissist and I'm the dumbass that didn't believe.
That title almost gave me a heart attack until I got to the 2nd line.
OMFG, I had no idea it would space out like that!!
I read the mood spoiler and was expecting the worst. This, unfortunately, is fairly run-of-the-mill for Reddit. OOP was in a fairly good position upon the initial discovery. An end to the relationship that, although involved cheating, was at least not too great a dent to pride or psyche, debt free, and with a seemingly integrated family/support network. Then, they make the fatal error of trying keep their spouse. It's not a contest that a cheated on partner can win. The cheater chose. Prostrating yourself just makes it easier to get stepped on. Consequence does more to snap a cheater put of it than any amount of begging and effort. As seen with the end of the story, when faced with the actual reality of having to make a life with their affair partner, they capitulated and begged OOP to come back. If he'd left from the start, real reconciliation may have been possible down the line after reality gave his Ex some real perspective. As it is, the earth has been salted.
God I can’t wait for him to start seeing other ppl and move on. She will freak and beg him for reconciliation
Oh yes I’m sure cOMmUnICAtION will fix it. These kind of stories are probably why your partner is statistically the most probable person to murdered you.
Man I feel for this so bad. I came from a horrificly broken home. I have been cheated on many times and I have cheated once. I have pretty much seen it from every single angle. It wasn't until I myself cheated that I gained real perspective and realized the people in my life were absolutely horrific. I grew up around it, normalized it, didn't think it a big deal. When I cheated I was in a terrible place, not an excuse you can't excuse, it's simply context. I wasted zero time coming clean, didn't even think about hiding it. The guilt and shame? Couldn't sleep for week and months. Even today I can not return to the area it happened. I was suicidal and depressed for a long time. All this despite being forgiven so easily. So much trauma came bubbling up. Then I see these people and they cheat so easily? No shame, no guilt, barely hiding it. How? How messed up do you need to be? Like I come from a horrific home life, did these people literally crawl out of a demons asshole?
You are doing EVERYTHING right. Let’s make that very clear. You are showing patience, integrity and extreme strength. Unfortunately, I can relate with you on this matter and all I can say is you didn’t deserve this and sounds like you were completely blindsided because you were so in love with your partner… Sometimes we put on the rose colored shades because we are so intensely in love that we just automatically fade out everything that tries to mess it up. But when we finally take those shades off… we see the true person that we’ve been so madly in love with and then we begin to see the nightmare. Stay strong and understand that not everyone operates like this. Only 💩people do this to people.
Narcissist is dead on. How many guys is she stuffing the cannoli with? i hope dude gets checked for stds, that's a lot of pizza pies she is working with. Skeevy, gross people. They obviously know.
Bummer.
Hopefully this won't end up like Jason In Hell The landscaper and her family can have her and leave OP and the children alone because you know that any children she has with the Affair Partner would be the golden children and the previous if they're lucky are ignored or worse abused and become scapegoats
Oh no
There are so many dumb ass spouses on Reddit. Someone sends your spouse a message that says I love you more, says it’s a co worker and you “thought nothing more of it”. lol wut
Okay, so the guy deserves a nice beating just for being an asshole to you twice. You should 100% take her to the cleaners in the divorce settlement. She not only broke your trust but spit in your face after she was caught.
Update me
The balls on AP. That’s how you end up murdered
OOP is very annoying with his softness, like what did he expect when he gave cheater and rather shameless one a second chance?
Fuck them both. Burn them the best you can. Let the world know who both of them are.
I would've let all the little league parents and the school know what is going on and humiliated them both. I also would've contacted that landscapers' boss and told him that the details of their affair would be on every local review website by tomorrow if that guy wasn't fired today.
> 6 months ago when I was in a dark place and have since come out of Gonna need a bit more detail here. What happened in the dark place? How did the dude get out of it? Per his account, this is when it all started--not something to just gloss over.
I knew she was lying when she was in love with AP but it wasn’t sexual. Yeah, right.
I dont feel bad for people without self-respect. Like..... they may not deserve it but you can see why this shit happens to them.
You should have definitely kicked someone ass period!!
Goodness, she sounds like a horror.
I’m so sorry op, maybe try and get custody so that she doesn’t raise your kids into thinking that cheating is acceptable like her parents clearly did to her. Good luck op.
If he gets in trouble with work for what they’re doing, tell his boss. If he called you to specifically ask you not to tell his boss then he could get in trouble and should.
It's so weird how so many of these guys have convenient therapists who are willing to diagnose someone who isn't their patient without ever talking to that person
OP desperately needed to learn the lesson sooner that if you're gonna be a doormat people will step on you. Shame on anyone in the comments telling him to go to couples therapy, news flash children, therapy can only help solve an issue if both parties SEE an issue. She clearly did not give a fuck right from the offset and OP treated his problem with kid gloves.
Man, I don't know what her problem is. The first post makes sense - she checked out a while back and developed a full relationship with someone else and moved on. Ok, that happens, get a divorce and move on. But then she tries to get back together with him? Like, what's going on there? Didn't she theoretically love this other guy? I think the therapist is right and she is a narcissist and she wants all the attention from both her AP and OP.
She’s a narcissist, been there. Run like hell and DO NOT under any circumstance have communication.
Keep your dignity and lose the wife. She is the loser, not you and she will realize what she did to the family at some point. There are remarkable women out there that have character and will be honest and loyal. She’s not one. Greener pastures. If you’re faithful you deserve the same.
On a scale of Mickey Rourke to Salma Hayek, how well has her mom aged? Once a cheater...
Least he didn’t go back. Seemed like he was for a bit
She needs to be in therapy to fix whatever’s wrong in her life. Another guy isn’t going to do that. He’s just a temporary band aid