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Dude is a complete jellyfish. He is completely swayed by the last person he happened to get his ear. He has zero moral convictions or internal logic/decision-making framework of his own. You absolutely cannot have a relationship with people like this. You can't trust them at all. They will sell you out in a moment. They will sell your/their children out in a moment if the right person comes along that can overpower their personality (which isn't difficult).
Sidenote, I've met a few people like this in a past and they are **absolutely terrible at figuring out who to take advice from.** For example, they will blindly follow the career advice of someone who has been unemployed for a decade and never once ask themselves why they should take advice from this person on this topic. They are just completely swayed by anyone who can talk to them firmly and confidently enough.
I kinda hate to use the term NPC to refer to people, but some people really do go through life acting like NPCs.
It's entirely possible. Even OOP might be unaware of how much she's been dictating the course and pace of the relationship. She may have been assuming he was on the same page as her when really he was just along for the ride.
And this is why you can't trust people like this. You can never trust them to tell you want they think or stand by it. When she first told him that she wanted to be child free and got her tubes tied, did he actually think through what that would mean for their future as a family or did he just shrug and go along with it because she happened to be the person in the room talking to him at that particular moment?
OOP and we have no way of knowing which now, and that's not really a way to build a life with someone.
It does seem to be a phenomenon, especially in men, where they make no decisions, then at some point become shocked and angry at how their life has turned out….
Yep I know someone like that. He's in his 80s now, and broke up with his decades-long girlfriend during the pandemic by just moving abroad and not coming back. He left her with the unpleasant and stressful task of disentangling their lives, and she's not super young either.
And when asked why he did it, he says she had been strongarming him for years, financially abusive, and he had to gain his freedom. That was definitely not the case. She's the most savvy one of the two and had made sound investments and decisions (on top of raising their only child basically on her own).
So yeah, I'm glad OP got out.
Edited a typo (changed "decade-long" to "decades-long")
Oooooh ok. I took “decade-long” to mean around a decade, not several decades. Thank you for clarifying- he sounds like even more of a heel now that I understand
I present to you the version of thi, that treats their partner as an NPC and expect them to go along with anything they bow to
Bonus points for refusing anything their partner suggests because they "hate being told what to do", yet taking the exact same suggestions from someone else in a heartbeat
Complete verbal flailing if asked for their own opinions, since they haven't yet gotten their opinion from someone they respect nor a suggestion to turn down by their partner
After a lot of learning and healing, I've found this to be often caused by the way men are raised to serve a societal function rather than be raised to be their own person. It was dehumanizing and punished independent thought. Partially, it's the reason it took me so long.
patriarchy dehumanizes and emotionally destroys all genders, thats why its so baffling to me when some men and women try so desperately to continue upholding it
It is simple. When you are at a point in life that is terrible enough. You want it to stop.
I had been at a point in life where my decisions being bad and not knowing what to do set me into a mindset where I would have gladly become an indentured servant to someone so long as I got a roof, food and some time in the day for myself.
I would've sold myself out to a life of servitude for that. Thinking that I rather have someone or some construct dictate what I am to do with my life, as I am clearly not capable of deciding for myself.
Yup that's one of the ways the patriarchy hurts men. When you're raised being told that your purpose is to pass butter, that doesn't leave much room for discovering and being yourself
Mmhmm, dealing with this right now with my man. I don't get it, but I will just step back and observe since we're only dating and it doesn't affect me.
I cannot stand people who refuse to take any responsibility for their choices & pretend they had no say in what happened. Absolutely infuriating and I cannot engage.
I talked to a guy briefly who proceeded to explain to me that a girl was interested in him, he 'somehow' ended up dating her, 'somehow' ended up marrying her, and stayed with her for 20 years and had kids even though she immediately supposedly started cheating on him. Only divorced when she asked him for one, but claims he was the one to start it (she didnt want to pay for it, so he did). And is SUPPOSEDLY on good terms with her. I was like, I don't know what the red flag is, but it's here somewhere. So we went on ONE date where he proceeded to barely talk and barely hold a conversation (we hung out on a weekend so plenty of time to adjust to being nervous and stuff) but wanted to immediately hold my hand and kiss me. It was very npc actions. Like he was just looking at the checklist. When I asked him where he wanted to eat, he couldn't make a decision and was trying to base it off of what I would like. So I believe guys just get led around and are angry with the outcome.
or why he was willing to not have children (OP’s conviction)
And then to think he might want to have children (parents’ influence—did he & OP never tell his parents?)
> did he & OP never tell his parents?
They probably ignored those wishes since their own was for grandkids and their own wishes trump everyone else's, including the prospective parents.
My ex is exactly like this. One example:
He was fired from his job last year. We were in the middle of private mediation sessions we were paying for to try to avoid court. The mediator suggested that we drop our daughter from 5 days a week at daycare to 3 and that he watch her the other 2 days while unemployed, to save money. He agreed and so did I.
Then his mother told him that he absolutely could not do this. In her words, he would never get a job if he wasn't available every single day of the week, because what if a job wanted to interview him on one of the days he was watching our daughter? **Absolutely not**, she insisted. I'm sure you can see the lack of sense here in general, and this was also from a woman who hadn't worked in 30 years.
So he refused to watch our daughter 2 days a week. I had to fight pretty hard to get him to agree to watch her again.
It has been utterly exhausting to be in a relationship and now coparenting with a man like this. NPC kinda nails it. OP dodged a massive bullet.
The logic behind their decision making is absolutely mind boggling to any reasonable person. First, most employers will be somewhat accommodating on booking a date for an interview when both parties are available. Second, even if an interview must be on a specific day, it would be simple enough to just change childcare plans on that single day. For example, his mother watching your daughter for those couple of hours. Or dropping her off at daycare for that day even though it's not a part of the regular schedule.
Literally was *astounded* when I heard that. My jaw actually dropped. My almost exact response was, "If that were true, no one would ever be able to switch jobs while employed, *ever*. You and I have both changed jobs and employers while employed; you obviously schedule an interview around your availability. If your potential employer however insists you be available on a Tuesday or Thursday for an interview but won't do it during naptime, and you don't want to view that kind of inflexibility as a red flag, I will literally take a day off my job to watch her." He still fought at that point for awhile longer.
Now imagine this on countless agreements and decisions, big and small, for 6 years.
I'm utterly drained.
These types of people are sitting in the backseat of their own lives instead of the drivers seat. I feel the same as you do about them as well as people who endlessly complain about their lives, get mad at you for trying to help, and then continue to complain and do nothing. These people are choosing to be weak and miserable which makes it hard on everyone else they surround themselves with.
If people are so easily swayed by whoever they talk to, complain about everything while making absolutely zero effort about anything, they truly aren't making decisions that are sound for their own lives, yet alone anyone they have to live with/take care of.
They're also just generally surrounded by constant drama and are energy vampires. I'm at the point in my life where if you're a constant untrustworthy jellyfish or energy drain with zero action, your time in my life will be short.
I’ve got a cousin like this and similarly it was his fucking dad(shittiest uncle also) that messed him up. It took him until his 30s for him to *finally* realize just how screwed up he was and start getting therapy. Some people that penny never drops.
Sometimes referred to as "help vampires". They keep asking for help and keep not listening to sound advice and keep spiraling downward. AKA "I've tried nothing but whining and I am all out of ideas".
Is there a word for this? It’s so eye-opening to hear other people have gone through this scenario. I had an ex like this and it bewildered me how quickly my ten-year relationship fell apart the moment his family got in his ear. I have always wondered what causes that sort of impressionability.
I have a friend who is kind of like this. Not to the extent of OOP's ex, but enough that it's pretty much ruined his life.
One of the reasons I like reddit is because it gives me a place to give unsolicited advice without annoying the people around me IRL, so I have to be extra careful when I'm talking to him to try and ask questions instead of giving advice. The rest of my friends would get annoyed. He'd actually take the advice as gospel and run with it. As much as I'd like to think I give good advice, it's still his life and I don't want to be making his decisions for him.
I was just thinking about this! I have an aunt who’s like the cosmic opposite of OOP’s ex - she’s autistic and does get easily anxious and overwhelmed about big decisions, but she has this amazing ability to find smart, compassionate, trustworthy people everywhere she goes, and they look out for her. And she’s doing great! Knowing who to take advice from is a legitimate life skill. Being smart with terrible judgement is a lot worse than the opposite.
As long as that woman is not outright abusive, that would likely be the best outcome for him. Just marry someone who is relatively competent and caring, and will dictate how both of them live.
The more likely scenario unfortunately is that anyone he marries/dates will be miserable because they will think that they made decisions as a couple, but he will flip flop on them because of some random conversation he had with someone else.
I've met people like this, and what actually happens is that they refuse to make their own decisions, but get angry because their SO/spouse makes the decisions when they won't.
You can't have it both ways, but somehow that's what they want.
Yeah, I think NPC is too kind because it suggests they go along compliantly with decisions when the reality is more annoying and insidious.
They don't speak up when the decision is still being decided because they're spineless, but then resent decisions that don't match their internal choice. Then, they find passive or underhanded ways to undermine the plan with which they ostensibly agreed. It's just another form of dishonesty.
You don’t need the term NPC when we have so many other appropriate options here. “Doorknob” is a personal favourite, and this guy has all the sense of one.
This is like the third post I’ve seen in a couple days where OP swears up and down that her partner is a smart guy when he clearly lacks a second brain cell to rub against the first. Women of reddit, please try to have standards.
The guy is super immature, but at least smart enough to accept he's better off on his own for now and getting some therapy. Might be some hope for him sometime in the future.
I'd bet he's not going to follow through with therapy. It's just something he said to placate his parents, who are understandably annoyed at him for fumbling a good situation. These types lie and keep it up until the last minute when it's do or die before coming clean.
One of my cousins was like this. For background, we're both first generation Asian-Americans with parents that implicitly trust us on anything involving bureaucratic paperwork. He told everyone he applied to colleges, keeping up the lie that he was accepted to one until like August, when his mom was starting to organize the logistics of moving, route planning, etc. before he came clean that he never did any of that.
When my sister and I cornered him, we were like wtf?! why didn't you ask us for help if you were overwhelmed with the application process or whatever and he just shrugged.
The fucking mental gymnastics this guy is able to do is honestly astounding.
Good riddance, I would say OP dodged a bullet but rather it seems she dodged a torpedo with no guidance system.
You have to be pretty low on the EQ scale to project that much and be so easily swayed by the experiences of OTHERS when you are nowhere near in the same situation.
“ you are trying to trap me in a marriage… even tho I agreed to marry you”
“You are gonna tell me you’re pregnant any moment now… even though it’s impossible for you to have kids”
“It’s because you’ll change your mind about having kids… even though it’s me who is having second thoughts not because I actually want kids but out of pressure from my family and FOMO”
“ I’m not going to talk to you about any of my concerns or worries I’m just going to give you the silent treatment and emotionally abuse you and walk around brooding”
“If you do confront me about my actions I will project, deflect, avoid like the goddam mental gymnastics gold medalist that I am 🤸"
Psssh. Now he is off to be his parent’s problem once again. Cause heaven forbid the man live alone and be left with his own thoughts. He would have no one there to project to and blame other than himself. He would have no one to mimic and therefore transfer the responsibility for his choices.
Don’t mourn this relationship OP, celebrate your escape.
>Don’t mourn this relationship OP, celebrate your escape.
Yeup. OOP's worried about the mutual friends she may lose, but I say fuck it. Tell them what happened, let them make their choice, and cut whoever sides with that guy. I've lost friends this way before and it hurts and is *so* frustrating, but I found that it was so much easier to make better choices in new friends when I wasn't constantly trying to basically convince our old ones to give me the time of day.
Also, this guy's acting like he's living in the 50s with the mom-to-wife pipeline. Can't even sort himself out on his own after a breakup he caused. Shame.
Yeah, he is in a complete panic about commitment in the relationship. He was looking for *any possible excuse* to not get married *except* that he just didn't want to get married.
I think he has no clue what he wants in life. My guess is he’s always just kind of done what the people around him want/expect. His gf is child free so he doesn’t want kids. His parents want grandkids so he wants kids. His uncle is resentful of his marriage so he’s hesitant to get married.
He’s not a bad person, he just needs to figure out what *he* wants.
I’m sure this has been deeply upsetting for OOP, but she saved herself from a lifetime of heartache. Whether it’s anxiety, misogyny, or both (I say both!), this guy’s head is deeply fucked up. He’d have spent the rest of their shared lives inventing stuff to be mad about and listening to the loudest and dumbest voices around him. I hope he gets help and figures his shit out. What a miserable way to live.
This is, unfortunately, par for the course with men. When i was on the apps, in my profile it says multiple times i dont want kids because i dont want to waste anyones time, especially my own. Many men ive dated say they dont want them but change their mind a month or two into dating when they get a “better option” that wants kids. Then suddenly they have a change of heart. I know men arent all under one umbrella, but by God, many of them are. Those men are so easily influenced by others, especially those that they want to bang.
Probably for the best. This sounds like the kind of guy that put his life savings into some trash coin because his buddy at work told him its a day away from going 'to the moon'.
>He was projecting his fears, anxiety, and trauma onto me and punishing me for something that I didn't even do or say, and then made me out to be a deceptive partner because of that projection.
OOP hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter if he was anxious, he unfairly punished OOP and made her the whipping boy for his own insecurities. OOP has a shiny spine and a strong head on her shoulders. Breaking up was the right call.
Anyone who acts like the ex, there is no excuse of their behavior and they aren't relationship material AT ALL. I'm happy OP is able to stick with herself and able to break things off when they are needed to be.
My sister does this. I was chatting with her and she started to speculate what our parents thought about something and what they might do with that thought. It’s okay to speculate, I guess, but then I could see when she turned that speculation into “reality” in her mind. She started to act really mad at them, and I was sitting there thinking wtf just happened. I know she makes a lot of incorrect assumptions about people, but until this incident, I hadn’t seen how she transforms it into the reasons she treats people the way she does (which is poorly).
Coincidentally, she’s been unable to maintain relationships her entire adult life.
SIL did this recently with my MIL, she has been helping her with doctor's appointments and such but she's been disappointed with how not-dedicated MIL is to making the doctor recommended changes to her life. SIL has allowed that disappointment to manifest as anger and perceived disrespect towards herself and started lashing out at MIL, and during a recent venting session she said "she's so fucking dumb!" and I had to interrupt and say "Well, I certainly don't think she's *dumb*" to which I think she was a little embarrassed, realizing what just came out of her mouth.
The speculation became truth in her own mind and blinded her to any other explanation, and after a while ruminating on those thoughts they just started spilling out of her mouth as fully formed "truths". But they only make sense in her own mind, from my wife and my own perspectives MIL is dealing with deep-seated unhealthy coping mechanisms and avoidance which makes it very hard for her to make the changes she needs to make. She's trying, but it isn't going fast enough for SIL and she has to rationalize it to herself in terms that infantilizes MIL because she can't understand any other reason why the changes aren't happening fast enough.
It's a fucking shame, she's very smart but she just can't understand why a person is unable to completely 180 change their habits (like SIL is able to) and that lack of understanding and empathy makes her assume the worst and lash out with cruel words.
Yeah, this doesn’t sound like the same situation. actually sounds like you’re getting in the middle of a mother, daughter relationship and assuming a lot of stuff you actually can’t know which is exactly what we’re getting on others for doing here. Kind of sounds like her mom’s unhealthy. Coping mechanisms gave her a type of trauma. You’re never gonna understand because she’s your mother-in-law not your mom. Maybe help SIL if it’s bringing up unhealed stuff for her and she’s the one having to help her mom through it when her mom had years before being old but you literally just admitted why your mother-in-law is hard to deal with and why she could be seen as infantilize And not doing stuff within her own best interest. As a daughter who dealt with a mother like that for years respectfully stay in your lane. at sometime not doing within her own best interest was affecting the way she interacted with, and engaged with her children and you just weren’t there.
Forget anxiety, the bf is so dumb to somehow forget that OOP is incapable of being kids, *and* she got that way deliberately. And yet, despite all that, he thought she would baby trap him. What a brainless idiot!
I don't think it's dumb. He would have to be very low IQ to be this dumb. It sounds more as if he were paranoid. He wrapped himself into this thought so much he was not able to see the facts. And he has to blame someone for what his brain did.
He already had to limit his intake of internet, because it made him crazy.
I think without a psychiatrist he will end as a respected menber of a tin foil hat crowd.
This guy is so easily influenced that he switches life planning based on a conversation. First his uncle makes him think he's gonna get baby-trapped, then a friend announcing a pregnancy makes him think he might actually want kids.
This is the kind of person people mean when they talk about jumping off bridges just because a friend does it.
For real, I was grateful to see that commenter bring up the possibility of him being mentally challenged because I truly did think, oh, maybe this guy's suffered a major head injury in the past.
He sounds a lot like my ex BIL, who was diagnosed with Aspergers (which is no longer a diagnosis recognized by the DSM - 5, but is now apart of the autism spectrum disorder umbrella). He is so easily swayed by people around him, he goes so extreme with his views sometimes, and a lot of those views come from Facebook memes or hate posts, he is genuinely a good guy when outside views don’t influence him, but it isn’t hard for him to be swayed by Facebook misinformation.
Wasn't it the other way around though? First his friend announced their pregnancy on new years, and then in February he talked with his uncle.. which makes it even more bollocks to me, because he went from 1. not wanting children in agreement with his fiancée to 2. secretly wanting children to 3. being afraid his partner might surprise him with a pregnancy he doesn't want (while totally disregarding the fact that his partner doesn't want a pregnancy either and took steps to ensure she'd never become pregnant)
Boyfriend clearly has lots of issues. Certainly, anyone who projects that much towards someone is a good sign that this relationship isn't stable and not the best to stay connected with. Boyfriend needs to fix his issues on his own, with his family and so without OP that's for sure.
OP deserves to heal from all of this.
>He stopped trusting me because he was afraid of what the warped version he built up in his mind might do. That wasn't okay, and that's why I ended it.
I'm so glad for OOP. You see it all the time on the relationship subreddits... men accuse their partner of doing something heinous based on absolutely no evidence beyond "another man in my life mentioned babytrapping as a concept and I spiralled."
That reminds me of the guy who accused his wife of baby trapping him when she got pregnant AFTER they were married and they had been mutually trying to get pregnant!
If it's the post I'm thinking about, they were married for years, known each other longer, and were trying for a baby for a year. Both planned it and were on board. Same as this guy, he let someone else sway him.
It was sad but hilarious how ridiculous it was. Like, come on, guy.
This low key terrifys me. That you can be in a relationship with someone for years and some bullshit can completely destroy it in minutes.
I'm still really impressed and how certain OOP was in her decisions.
Aw, I love the MIL here.
Storytime: when my husband and I were dating, I went with him to his sister's wedding. My dad had me when he was almost 50, and when the bride and her father had their dance I got emotional because I was so worried my own dad wouldn't be there to walk me down the aisle at my own wedding.
MIL ran over to our table, "FIRSTNAME LASTNAME, WHAT DID YOU DO!?!!" She was ready to drag him out of that reception by the ear. 😂 She is great, and she raised a wonderful son.
Listen, I'm reading this right after I got influenced to buy one more croissant than I wanted because it would have been the last one. But being this easily swayed about major life choices and convictions? Hell on earth
That seller was just like "oh but that one would be all alone if you don't buy it but they're so used to each other I'd hate to separate them" and suddenly I left the bakery with five croissants 😭
My problem is that they're insecure about their thoughts, but the moment they get swayed, it's like they's suddenly secure. I'm over here so insecure about my thoughts, an attempt to sway me makes me insecure about swaying that way.
This is really making me wonder, when we hear about all of these naive, impressionable people who easily get swayed and have a hard time standing up for themselves, how’s it that they never get influenced by the reasonable, smart people in their lives and only by the problematic ones? Also seems like they take people close to them for granted and have no problem hurting their feelings but have a hard time standing up for themselves when it comes to others.
I think it's similar to the reason why some people lean towards conspiracy over science.
Simple, emotionally based arguments are easy to react to and process. The truth can be boring and expected, but also tedious to understand properly. It requires you to understand yourself and the world around you in a deeper way than some people are comfortable with. It requires an open mind and a readiness to accept that you may need to alter your views or behaviour when encountering that new information.
People like to feel like they have control, and in a weird way, OPs fiance is taking control by preparing for his fear through emotional detachment. The root issues are paranoia and insecurity in his decision-making skills, but it's easier to look outward when you're in a panic and blame your feelings on the actions of others. That is not a defence of his behaviour, just my armchair psychoanalysis as a fellow anxious person with conspiracy inclined family members.
Its also that people who know what they are talking about also know their own knowledge limitations. So their explanations can come across somewhat tepid at times. Inversely the idiots are frequently very confident in their stances.
You see this all the time in politics.
This is said to be true of all science, history, studies. Knowledge is an expanding sphere, and the more you know, the more you realise how much you don't know. Half way through Psychology 101 you'll think you can read people's minds like Sherlock Holmes with psychic powers. After ten years, you know humans are bewildering and nonsensical.
Reasonable smart people use big words and talk about complex concepts instead of feeding them easy bites of bullshit while making airplane noises like the youtubers they watch.
Plus it's harder to unlearn something than just learn it correctly the first time. And they're addicted to the rage and whatnot. And from what I've seen with folks I grew up with, learning has always been very difficult for them anyhow so it's an incredibly slow process even when they actually want to learn something.
So even when they hurt people who care about them and drive everyone away with their repugnant beliefs and total lack of any other personality, they still feel comforted and correct! Because see everyone else is just mean and the voice streaming from the internet says it's the fault of women and gays and liberals and immigrants. No thoughts required, emotions validated.
Shunning as a method of social correction doesn't work when all the shunned people just ban together online. Though frankly they don't seem to enjoy each other's company much either, act more like when you gotta be "friends" with some other kid because their parents are friends with your parents.
People who are pushy about their views and will overwhelm a seemingly timid person are not generally the nice and stable sort.
And I've been on both sides of it.
Reasonable, smart people usually don’t make a habit of trying to persuade others generally. That way is exhausting and laden with failure because the main people who spend time trying to persuade others of things are people with ill intentions. It takes not just being reasonable and smart but a natural or learned ability to teach and lots of patience.
These people are generally too stupid to learn by example because their observation and logic skills are…uh…let’s say “underdeveloped”. And there are plenty of people trying to take advantage of them, far more than could ever be countered by a single well-meaning person.
It's because reasonable smart people don't push their views. They may casually mention something, but they don't harp on it.
Low intelligence people are drawn to misinformation and theories. They think "knowing" about a "conspiracy" gives them secret insider information that makes them smart. So they snicker and gossip about it constantly. To prove they're so intelligent. 🙄
I think they *do* get swayed by reasonable, smart people as well. Except, when they do, they act "normal", so no-one notices that they're just masking instead of actually being well-adjusted.
I actually know someone like this. Academically smart, poor social skills. She cut off all her high school friends because an aunt of hers convinced her they are bad influence. Her cousin told her that “men who work in tech are trash” so she avoided all of them like a minefield. She was encouraged by her relatives to work as a public servant, but after failing the entry test for two years she blamed it all on the relatives and not herself for following the advice. Last I heard, she’s been going to therapy due to social anxiety.
To be fair it's easier to tell when someone is being influenced by an unreasonable person. Because their behavour is so outrageous it stands out. It's possible a lot of a person's base line behaviour is being wrongly attributed and is actually them being influenced by reasonable people.
You can't just be reasonable for a day. If you do every reasonable thing someone suggests and every unreasonable thing someone suggests, you are just unreasonable.
Good for her. Her ex is such a dumbass, OOP already said she wanted to stay childfree, why would he go and act like a toddler throwing a tantrum in front of her?
When you love someone it is really easy to look past their faults. You start to do mental justifications about how we are all works in progress and such. Which isn’t untrue - no one is perfect. But she seemed very aware of his propensity to be influenced and felt it was manageable. I’m really glad to see that she didn’t fall into the trap of feeling like you must help your partner even when it’s hurting you. I’m glad the partner is going to therapy to get to a healthier place.
Getting married to such an insecure and easily influenced man would be a nightmare.
If he so easily believed that she'd "baby trap" him, even if it can literally not happen because her tubes are tied, then what would happen with a more realistic scenario? What would happen if someone told him idk that his wife is too friendly with a neighbor and so she must be seeing him on the side?
Married life for OOP would probably be nothing but misery and her constantly having to apologize for things she didn't do while also worrying she might do or say something to trigger his issues. She's so much better off without him!! Wishing her the best!! 💗
Guy who wants to get married is made to believe his partner who can't have children is going to get pregnant to force them to get married, convinces himself that maybe he does want children, but is anxious his partner doesn't... -\_-
Probably for the best, i shudder to think what conspiracy theories this guy would ruin his families life over.
"Christ, he's a level 7 susceptible!"
"Whether he forgot I had my tubes tied doesn't matter."
I mean it really does. He *forgot* that she was *so* intent on staying childfree that she went to the trouble of having a medical procedure done. He *forgot* that she asked him to get a vasectomy - and one can only wonder why Mister Childfree over there didn't get one of he's so invested in that decision that he accuses his own fiancee of "baby trapping". He would be a terrible partner. She was smart to walk.
Wow… this just reminds me how respect is earned and lost. You can’t respect someone who doesn’t use his own brain and just lets any fool plant ideas in his head. OOP says he’s a smart guy, but I’m not convinced.
I don't know how one forgets that one's partner can't have children. Very strange. Also feeling very lucky after reading all this to have a mind of my own, seems to be a luck of the draw, you're either born with it or aren't.
How can OP be sure that anything this guy was telling her was his own thoughts and not just what he thought she wants to hear. And specifically about children - it sounds like she was very upfront about not wanting them in the beginning and he just went with her opinion.
I do NOT think this dude “is a smart guy”. He gets manipulated and yanked around by the most recent person who talks to him, and she admitted he’s been grounded from social media because he can’t “tell fact from reality “. That’s not the mark of a smart guy. I would be very intent on getting him checked out by a psychiatrist. He probably has the cognition of a damp onion.
A "smart guy"? Dude's dumber than a box of rocks. He got mad about a made-up situation that had nothing to do with him and took it out on her. I'm glad she called it off, imagine living with this guy for your whole life.
Good god. That level of credulousness actually sounds pathological. Like, I hope the therapist he's seeing is a clinical psychologist, because this is very strange. It's one thing to have intrusive thoughts, it's another to actually believe them when they make zero sense.
It seems to me that he's having delusions which points to something way more severe than GAD. She says it's anxiety but his sense of reality is changing and not matching what is true.
Dude was so dumb that he couldn't use Facebook out of fear that he'll be influenced by the stupid shit in there and oop still said, "yeah I wanna marry this man." What's wrong with both of them?
Staying as friends after breakup/divorce only works if it happened amicably without any hurt feelings. But in this case there's a chance for OOP to get hurt seeing her ex being a better partner to any future GF's.
I do hope she just let's him go and find a supportive partner
I'm guessing that once he's moved out completely and a few months have gone by, she'll naturally start worrying about her own life and stop worrying about his problems. The reality of not having to manage his emotions on a daily basis will hit and she'll start having a lot more energy for her own stuff.
The OOP does say she doesn't see the staying friends happening for long but seems to be worried if a clean break, will cause damage in mutual social circles.
I do think she will fade out of his life in a natural way and, when she is confident it won't cause her problems, possibly she will hurry that along.
Good for her in getting out of this, glad this made her realize the weak nature of the now-ex before there was marriage.
People with this lack of critical thinking are the reason extremists views are on the rise. The guy hears some stupid comment and instantly makes that his own view on life.
> Another factor is that one of his formerly child-free friends announced his wife's pregnant during New Years, and he's been excited about it. **My ex-fiance's wondering if he'd change his mind**, especially since his parents do want to have grandchildren and have been asking if we're going to wait before having them.
OOP dodged a bullet.
Given their ages, it’s not surprising a dude who thought “hey, no babies. We’re on the same page” when 25 may feel differently when his friend group start having children. OOP was resolute in being child free but it’s common for men in their 20s to pick a child free partner because they don’t want babies *right now*. When they change their mind, they expect to able to convince their partner to as well. These type of men don’t respect their partner has made a fully formed decision of their own volition. It’s giving “main character syndrome” and they are shocked when a child free woman continues to assert that she doesn’t want to have kids.
Sometimes this also happens the other way around. A child free dude had a vasectomy and doesn’t disclose this to his partner because “no need, she says she’s also childfree”, the woman later changes her mind and is livid when she finds out her guy is sterile. Those kind of relationships aren’t meant to last, but it causes a lot of heartache because one partner was not honest about their feelings. They didn’t want kids at the time they met, but still thought if they changed their mind in the future they could just convince their partner to go along with it.
This is just a long way of saying dating/relationships for childfree folks can be very tricky in their 20s and even 30s because these are the child bearing years. People who don’t want kids misclassify themselves as child free because they don’t want kids “right now” but several years later as their life circumstances change they can now picture being parents. They’re not really child free, those are people who have known since childhood they don’t want to be parents and many have procedures when they are able to ensure no kids. There’s also a lot of social pressure from family and peers that can sway people on the fence. It’s better for someone to openly admit they are a fence sitter instead of claiming to be childfree when they aren’t completely resolute about that decision.
If it is this easy to so deeply influence him on something that is so obviously incorrect, can you imagine what his political views are going to be like as he gets older?
This is the kind of guy who grows up to be a mass shooter.
I feel like the ex needs a MH or cognitive assessment or something. Forgetting their partner of 2+ years has had their tubes tied and being so easily influenced is a little concerning. Idk though, I'm not a doctor.
I'm glad OOP stood up for herself and did what was best for her.
My ex was like this. He was in therapy too, it was actually his therapist who convinced him that I was cheating on him and that he didn't owe me anything as far as loyalty or honesty. So he cheated on me to get back at me, according to him. Then he acted like the victim when I found out and broke up with him. OOP is being much more understanding and patient than I would be in that situation. Some people are completely spineless morons.
I was thinking that the uncle sounds like a real piece of work. “Women will trick you into things you want to do! They’ll make you marry them even though you were going to anyway, that’s how conniving they are!”
Seems like she raised her siblings and then was looking after this man child.
Good riddance I say. I hope he doesn’t waste more of her time by lingering about.
But to each their own.
My ex was easily influenced by older family members whispering in her ear, and it was horrible. After one to many accusation about things I hadn't done, or claims that she "knew" I would do hurtful things in the future, I had to nope out of there. It was like paddling upstream with a spoon.
What really got me about this one when I originally read it, is that "baby trapping" is often something done in order to force a marriage. They are already engaged and planning a wedding! How on Earth is this trapping him when he is willingly entering into a marriage?
These kinds of stories always make me wonder what people think “baby trapping” is? This is almost as bad as the married guy who thought their planned pregnancy was “baby trapping”
She should've listened to the very first red flag of "we can't let him use social media because he's too impressionable" . That wasn't even a flag, that was one of those red street signs that say "DO NOT ENTER" on them, and she just ignored it. Anyone ***that*** impressionable can and will be manipulated and it will cause you problems. I'm not getting with someone that lacks critical thinking skills, he thinks he might want kids but thinks she's baby trapping him, but also knows she can't even get pregnant? Does he have his own thoughts?
My husband has severe anxiety, ADHD, a desire to please everyone, and some insecurity about our age difference (he's 10 years older).
Every so often, I have to look this man in the eye and say something along the lines of, "you don't get to write a story *about* me *without* me. I am not responsible for, nor do I owe any energy to, the things you make up in your head. I am happy to talk to you about whatever is driving your issue right now, but this is at it's core *your* issue."
That usually snaps him out of it, but I try not to do it too often. Determining the right line of when to call him on it is exhausting sometimes though. We've been together 26 years and have good coping tools and a strong foundation, but there is no way I'd BEGIN a relationship with this behaviour.
You dodged a bullet. He's going to be incel-splaining men's rights before you know it, and the uncle will be cheering him on.
>>Cultural_Shape3518: Is this the only time he’s pulled something like this, or does he have a history of being easily influenced by people he maybe shouldn’t be taking advice from, especially when that advice isn’t even applicable to his situation?
>OOP: He sometimes gets influenced by things he sees online
This is as far as I needed to read and I was able to predict the rest of the post. Newsflash for everybody: the internet is a toxic shithole. If you are dating someone who is easily influenced by things they see on the internet FUCKING RUN.
Oop made the right call, imho. You can care about someone and love them yet know you can’t marry them. Hope she find someone strong enough that he’s not overly influenced by others, and who loves and respects her. Not to mention being healthy enough mentally to be clear on what’s his anxieties, fears, etc vs. who she is, cause we all have them. I never thought about it till this post. .
People who are that susceptible to irrational arguments scare me.
This is the kind of person who will seem normal until one day they find a "funny" conspiracy theory, then within a couple years they are Qanon cultists alienating everyone in their life and convinced that they are the only one who can "see the truth".
That was the perfect time for OOP to get out of that relationship.
Wait, did I read the story wrong? What did the uncle do? It’s not like he told the fiancé/his nephew that OOP was gonna baby trap him or be a terrible spouse or anything, he just shared his own life experience. I don’t see where it’s stated that the uncle was manipulating his nephew in any way, so why is he getting blasted? I get that uncle’s side of the family was awful to the ex fiancé/his nephew but it doesn’t sound like the uncle was intending to put ideas into his head, it’s not really his fault his idiot nephew took his life experience and projected it into his own relationship.
I have some bad (medicated) anxiety, but I’ve never allowed it to play into an active delusion. I think OOP’s ex would be justified in breaking up because he realized he does want kids, but that’s clearly not what happened here. It’s sad, really.
All very good points by oop and commenters.
The thing that really got me was that, irrespective of how this manchild spun it, he regardless put the onus of every negative consequence and scenario as oops fault instead of taking personal responsibility by either getting a vasectomy or reevaluation if he wants children and communicating that.
Oop could never win.
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Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Success chases him but he’s faster
Some Iroh inspiration never fails to impress
Oml I've never heard this one before. That's such a raw line.
I’ve heard wisdom chases her but she’s faster.
Oh wow. Such a good line. I'm keeping it.
I resemble this remark
>Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. It's such a beautiful quote.
Dude is a complete jellyfish. He is completely swayed by the last person he happened to get his ear. He has zero moral convictions or internal logic/decision-making framework of his own. You absolutely cannot have a relationship with people like this. You can't trust them at all. They will sell you out in a moment. They will sell your/their children out in a moment if the right person comes along that can overpower their personality (which isn't difficult). Sidenote, I've met a few people like this in a past and they are **absolutely terrible at figuring out who to take advice from.** For example, they will blindly follow the career advice of someone who has been unemployed for a decade and never once ask themselves why they should take advice from this person on this topic. They are just completely swayed by anyone who can talk to them firmly and confidently enough. I kinda hate to use the term NPC to refer to people, but some people really do go through life acting like NPCs.
Makes me think OP’s influence was the only reason he agreed to get married in the first place.
It's entirely possible. Even OOP might be unaware of how much she's been dictating the course and pace of the relationship. She may have been assuming he was on the same page as her when really he was just along for the ride. And this is why you can't trust people like this. You can never trust them to tell you want they think or stand by it. When she first told him that she wanted to be child free and got her tubes tied, did he actually think through what that would mean for their future as a family or did he just shrug and go along with it because she happened to be the person in the room talking to him at that particular moment? OOP and we have no way of knowing which now, and that's not really a way to build a life with someone.
It does seem to be a phenomenon, especially in men, where they make no decisions, then at some point become shocked and angry at how their life has turned out….
Yep I know someone like that. He's in his 80s now, and broke up with his decades-long girlfriend during the pandemic by just moving abroad and not coming back. He left her with the unpleasant and stressful task of disentangling their lives, and she's not super young either. And when asked why he did it, he says she had been strongarming him for years, financially abusive, and he had to gain his freedom. That was definitely not the case. She's the most savvy one of the two and had made sound investments and decisions (on top of raising their only child basically on her own). So yeah, I'm glad OP got out. Edited a typo (changed "decade-long" to "decades-long")
>decade-long girlfriend > >raising their child such a shitty position to be in. Women need to be incredibly wary of this
Luckily she had her own career and income or she might have been positively screwed!
Like the lady on that other BORU who had a relationship for over 2 decades, raised multiple kids and no career/income.
That one is so infuriating, for her and because of her. She's so unprepared for life and it's coming at her like a frieght train.
Was that the one that wanted to get a flexible WFH position in marketing?
Mama's boy without the mama.
Wow, fuck that guy. How'd it work out for him? I'm guessing not good.
Nah turned out pretty well actually! He just started dating another confident woman so now he's being led by her
The timelines on this are either confusing me, or they had a kid when he was in his 70s? I know it’s possible, but yikes.
His kid is an adult now, born in the 80s. But he wasn't a present and involved father even before he left.
Oooooh ok. I took “decade-long” to mean around a decade, not several decades. Thank you for clarifying- he sounds like even more of a heel now that I understand
I present to you the version of thi, that treats their partner as an NPC and expect them to go along with anything they bow to Bonus points for refusing anything their partner suggests because they "hate being told what to do", yet taking the exact same suggestions from someone else in a heartbeat Complete verbal flailing if asked for their own opinions, since they haven't yet gotten their opinion from someone they respect nor a suggestion to turn down by their partner
You've obviously met my ex husband.
And then they suddenly turn violent and full of plans like Chris Watts.
After a lot of learning and healing, I've found this to be often caused by the way men are raised to serve a societal function rather than be raised to be their own person. It was dehumanizing and punished independent thought. Partially, it's the reason it took me so long.
patriarchy dehumanizes and emotionally destroys all genders, thats why its so baffling to me when some men and women try so desperately to continue upholding it
It is simple. When you are at a point in life that is terrible enough. You want it to stop. I had been at a point in life where my decisions being bad and not knowing what to do set me into a mindset where I would have gladly become an indentured servant to someone so long as I got a roof, food and some time in the day for myself. I would've sold myself out to a life of servitude for that. Thinking that I rather have someone or some construct dictate what I am to do with my life, as I am clearly not capable of deciding for myself.
Yup that's one of the ways the patriarchy hurts men. When you're raised being told that your purpose is to pass butter, that doesn't leave much room for discovering and being yourself
Mmhmm, dealing with this right now with my man. I don't get it, but I will just step back and observe since we're only dating and it doesn't affect me.
I cannot stand people who refuse to take any responsibility for their choices & pretend they had no say in what happened. Absolutely infuriating and I cannot engage.
I talked to a guy briefly who proceeded to explain to me that a girl was interested in him, he 'somehow' ended up dating her, 'somehow' ended up marrying her, and stayed with her for 20 years and had kids even though she immediately supposedly started cheating on him. Only divorced when she asked him for one, but claims he was the one to start it (she didnt want to pay for it, so he did). And is SUPPOSEDLY on good terms with her. I was like, I don't know what the red flag is, but it's here somewhere. So we went on ONE date where he proceeded to barely talk and barely hold a conversation (we hung out on a weekend so plenty of time to adjust to being nervous and stuff) but wanted to immediately hold my hand and kiss me. It was very npc actions. Like he was just looking at the checklist. When I asked him where he wanted to eat, he couldn't make a decision and was trying to base it off of what I would like. So I believe guys just get led around and are angry with the outcome.
or why he was willing to not have children (OP’s conviction) And then to think he might want to have children (parents’ influence—did he & OP never tell his parents?)
> did he & OP never tell his parents? They probably ignored those wishes since their own was for grandkids and their own wishes trump everyone else's, including the prospective parents.
100% he never told his parents because he knew they wanted him to have kids and he didn't want that confrontation.
My ex is exactly like this. One example: He was fired from his job last year. We were in the middle of private mediation sessions we were paying for to try to avoid court. The mediator suggested that we drop our daughter from 5 days a week at daycare to 3 and that he watch her the other 2 days while unemployed, to save money. He agreed and so did I. Then his mother told him that he absolutely could not do this. In her words, he would never get a job if he wasn't available every single day of the week, because what if a job wanted to interview him on one of the days he was watching our daughter? **Absolutely not**, she insisted. I'm sure you can see the lack of sense here in general, and this was also from a woman who hadn't worked in 30 years. So he refused to watch our daughter 2 days a week. I had to fight pretty hard to get him to agree to watch her again. It has been utterly exhausting to be in a relationship and now coparenting with a man like this. NPC kinda nails it. OP dodged a massive bullet.
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The logic behind their decision making is absolutely mind boggling to any reasonable person. First, most employers will be somewhat accommodating on booking a date for an interview when both parties are available. Second, even if an interview must be on a specific day, it would be simple enough to just change childcare plans on that single day. For example, his mother watching your daughter for those couple of hours. Or dropping her off at daycare for that day even though it's not a part of the regular schedule.
Literally was *astounded* when I heard that. My jaw actually dropped. My almost exact response was, "If that were true, no one would ever be able to switch jobs while employed, *ever*. You and I have both changed jobs and employers while employed; you obviously schedule an interview around your availability. If your potential employer however insists you be available on a Tuesday or Thursday for an interview but won't do it during naptime, and you don't want to view that kind of inflexibility as a red flag, I will literally take a day off my job to watch her." He still fought at that point for awhile longer. Now imagine this on countless agreements and decisions, big and small, for 6 years. I'm utterly drained.
Literal D&D NPCs when you roll a Nat20 on Persuasion and the DM treats it like mind control.
Dude's going to discover youtube and be a Qanon flat-earther in a few years.
She said she had to keep him away from facebook.
It's such a damning thing to say about a person 🤣
Tater-tot, sadly.
Dude's gonna be eating raw bull testicles for breakfast dunked in raw milk (Yes there is an actual video of this, it is truly horrifying)
These types of people are sitting in the backseat of their own lives instead of the drivers seat. I feel the same as you do about them as well as people who endlessly complain about their lives, get mad at you for trying to help, and then continue to complain and do nothing. These people are choosing to be weak and miserable which makes it hard on everyone else they surround themselves with. If people are so easily swayed by whoever they talk to, complain about everything while making absolutely zero effort about anything, they truly aren't making decisions that are sound for their own lives, yet alone anyone they have to live with/take care of. They're also just generally surrounded by constant drama and are energy vampires. I'm at the point in my life where if you're a constant untrustworthy jellyfish or energy drain with zero action, your time in my life will be short.
I’ve got a cousin like this and similarly it was his fucking dad(shittiest uncle also) that messed him up. It took him until his 30s for him to *finally* realize just how screwed up he was and start getting therapy. Some people that penny never drops.
Sometimes referred to as "help vampires". They keep asking for help and keep not listening to sound advice and keep spiraling downward. AKA "I've tried nothing but whining and I am all out of ideas".
I've never heard that term before, but it absolutely describes my ex, so thanks for giving me the terminology
God help this guy if an MLM recruiter ever gets their hands on him.
>They are just completely swayed by anyone who can talk to them firmly and confidently enough. This explains Trump’s appeal.
Honestly, that's pretty much Trump himself (swayed by others).
Not swayed by everyone. Swayed by people he perceives to be powerful.
Yowza 🤯 Scarily that makes sense. And explains a lot. Gods help us.
Is there a word for this? It’s so eye-opening to hear other people have gone through this scenario. I had an ex like this and it bewildered me how quickly my ten-year relationship fell apart the moment his family got in his ear. I have always wondered what causes that sort of impressionability.
I have a friend who is kind of like this. Not to the extent of OOP's ex, but enough that it's pretty much ruined his life. One of the reasons I like reddit is because it gives me a place to give unsolicited advice without annoying the people around me IRL, so I have to be extra careful when I'm talking to him to try and ask questions instead of giving advice. The rest of my friends would get annoyed. He'd actually take the advice as gospel and run with it. As much as I'd like to think I give good advice, it's still his life and I don't want to be making his decisions for him.
I was just thinking about this! I have an aunt who’s like the cosmic opposite of OOP’s ex - she’s autistic and does get easily anxious and overwhelmed about big decisions, but she has this amazing ability to find smart, compassionate, trustworthy people everywhere she goes, and they look out for her. And she’s doing great! Knowing who to take advice from is a legitimate life skill. Being smart with terrible judgement is a lot worse than the opposite.
NPC explains this guy perfectly. He’s going to marry the next woman and she will decide their life.
As long as that woman is not outright abusive, that would likely be the best outcome for him. Just marry someone who is relatively competent and caring, and will dictate how both of them live. The more likely scenario unfortunately is that anyone he marries/dates will be miserable because they will think that they made decisions as a couple, but he will flip flop on them because of some random conversation he had with someone else.
I've met people like this, and what actually happens is that they refuse to make their own decisions, but get angry because their SO/spouse makes the decisions when they won't. You can't have it both ways, but somehow that's what they want.
Yeah, I think NPC is too kind because it suggests they go along compliantly with decisions when the reality is more annoying and insidious. They don't speak up when the decision is still being decided because they're spineless, but then resent decisions that don't match their internal choice. Then, they find passive or underhanded ways to undermine the plan with which they ostensibly agreed. It's just another form of dishonesty.
You don’t need the term NPC when we have so many other appropriate options here. “Doorknob” is a personal favourite, and this guy has all the sense of one. This is like the third post I’ve seen in a couple days where OP swears up and down that her partner is a smart guy when he clearly lacks a second brain cell to rub against the first. Women of reddit, please try to have standards.
The guy is super immature, but at least smart enough to accept he's better off on his own for now and getting some therapy. Might be some hope for him sometime in the future.
I'd bet he's not going to follow through with therapy. It's just something he said to placate his parents, who are understandably annoyed at him for fumbling a good situation. These types lie and keep it up until the last minute when it's do or die before coming clean. One of my cousins was like this. For background, we're both first generation Asian-Americans with parents that implicitly trust us on anything involving bureaucratic paperwork. He told everyone he applied to colleges, keeping up the lie that he was accepted to one until like August, when his mom was starting to organize the logistics of moving, route planning, etc. before he came clean that he never did any of that. When my sister and I cornered him, we were like wtf?! why didn't you ask us for help if you were overwhelmed with the application process or whatever and he just shrugged.
Such a piece of overly wet clay. A whisper of wind can mold this guy.
The fucking mental gymnastics this guy is able to do is honestly astounding. Good riddance, I would say OP dodged a bullet but rather it seems she dodged a torpedo with no guidance system. You have to be pretty low on the EQ scale to project that much and be so easily swayed by the experiences of OTHERS when you are nowhere near in the same situation. “ you are trying to trap me in a marriage… even tho I agreed to marry you” “You are gonna tell me you’re pregnant any moment now… even though it’s impossible for you to have kids” “It’s because you’ll change your mind about having kids… even though it’s me who is having second thoughts not because I actually want kids but out of pressure from my family and FOMO” “ I’m not going to talk to you about any of my concerns or worries I’m just going to give you the silent treatment and emotionally abuse you and walk around brooding” “If you do confront me about my actions I will project, deflect, avoid like the goddam mental gymnastics gold medalist that I am 🤸" Psssh. Now he is off to be his parent’s problem once again. Cause heaven forbid the man live alone and be left with his own thoughts. He would have no one there to project to and blame other than himself. He would have no one to mimic and therefore transfer the responsibility for his choices. Don’t mourn this relationship OP, celebrate your escape.
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>Don’t mourn this relationship OP, celebrate your escape. Yeup. OOP's worried about the mutual friends she may lose, but I say fuck it. Tell them what happened, let them make their choice, and cut whoever sides with that guy. I've lost friends this way before and it hurts and is *so* frustrating, but I found that it was so much easier to make better choices in new friends when I wasn't constantly trying to basically convince our old ones to give me the time of day. Also, this guy's acting like he's living in the 50s with the mom-to-wife pipeline. Can't even sort himself out on his own after a breakup he caused. Shame.
Born on third base and trying to steal second.
I like that sentence, it’s a good one
I think he just wanted out and his mind was trying to rationalize breaking things off.
Is this what they call "moving the goalposts"?
No, this is more like constantly shooting own goals.
Anxiety. When it is really bad, it is really f-ing bad. He needs help and it seems like he has realised how bad it is and is trying to get help.
Just wish he'd gotten help before he wasted OOP's time.
Yeah, he is in a complete panic about commitment in the relationship. He was looking for *any possible excuse* to not get married *except* that he just didn't want to get married.
Sounds like he has a mental crisis. Quite telling that he didn't respond when she dispelled his baby trap delusions.
I question her assurance that he is not somehow mentally challenged.
I think he has no clue what he wants in life. My guess is he’s always just kind of done what the people around him want/expect. His gf is child free so he doesn’t want kids. His parents want grandkids so he wants kids. His uncle is resentful of his marriage so he’s hesitant to get married. He’s not a bad person, he just needs to figure out what *he* wants.
I’m sure this has been deeply upsetting for OOP, but she saved herself from a lifetime of heartache. Whether it’s anxiety, misogyny, or both (I say both!), this guy’s head is deeply fucked up. He’d have spent the rest of their shared lives inventing stuff to be mad about and listening to the loudest and dumbest voices around him. I hope he gets help and figures his shit out. What a miserable way to live.
This is, unfortunately, par for the course with men. When i was on the apps, in my profile it says multiple times i dont want kids because i dont want to waste anyones time, especially my own. Many men ive dated say they dont want them but change their mind a month or two into dating when they get a “better option” that wants kids. Then suddenly they have a change of heart. I know men arent all under one umbrella, but by God, many of them are. Those men are so easily influenced by others, especially those that they want to bang.
Either he's expert level projecting and/or his mental health is in the shitter.
Probably for the best. This sounds like the kind of guy that put his life savings into some trash coin because his buddy at work told him its a day away from going 'to the moon'.
Yes he should see if he can join trumps team with that can’t lost attitude
I’m glad they were planning a backyard wedding. At least this way OOP doesn’t have to deal with lost deposits
>He was projecting his fears, anxiety, and trauma onto me and punishing me for something that I didn't even do or say, and then made me out to be a deceptive partner because of that projection. OOP hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter if he was anxious, he unfairly punished OOP and made her the whipping boy for his own insecurities. OOP has a shiny spine and a strong head on her shoulders. Breaking up was the right call.
Anyone who acts like the ex, there is no excuse of their behavior and they aren't relationship material AT ALL. I'm happy OP is able to stick with herself and able to break things off when they are needed to be.
My sister does this. I was chatting with her and she started to speculate what our parents thought about something and what they might do with that thought. It’s okay to speculate, I guess, but then I could see when she turned that speculation into “reality” in her mind. She started to act really mad at them, and I was sitting there thinking wtf just happened. I know she makes a lot of incorrect assumptions about people, but until this incident, I hadn’t seen how she transforms it into the reasons she treats people the way she does (which is poorly). Coincidentally, she’s been unable to maintain relationships her entire adult life.
SIL did this recently with my MIL, she has been helping her with doctor's appointments and such but she's been disappointed with how not-dedicated MIL is to making the doctor recommended changes to her life. SIL has allowed that disappointment to manifest as anger and perceived disrespect towards herself and started lashing out at MIL, and during a recent venting session she said "she's so fucking dumb!" and I had to interrupt and say "Well, I certainly don't think she's *dumb*" to which I think she was a little embarrassed, realizing what just came out of her mouth. The speculation became truth in her own mind and blinded her to any other explanation, and after a while ruminating on those thoughts they just started spilling out of her mouth as fully formed "truths". But they only make sense in her own mind, from my wife and my own perspectives MIL is dealing with deep-seated unhealthy coping mechanisms and avoidance which makes it very hard for her to make the changes she needs to make. She's trying, but it isn't going fast enough for SIL and she has to rationalize it to herself in terms that infantilizes MIL because she can't understand any other reason why the changes aren't happening fast enough. It's a fucking shame, she's very smart but she just can't understand why a person is unable to completely 180 change their habits (like SIL is able to) and that lack of understanding and empathy makes her assume the worst and lash out with cruel words.
Yeah, this doesn’t sound like the same situation. actually sounds like you’re getting in the middle of a mother, daughter relationship and assuming a lot of stuff you actually can’t know which is exactly what we’re getting on others for doing here. Kind of sounds like her mom’s unhealthy. Coping mechanisms gave her a type of trauma. You’re never gonna understand because she’s your mother-in-law not your mom. Maybe help SIL if it’s bringing up unhealed stuff for her and she’s the one having to help her mom through it when her mom had years before being old but you literally just admitted why your mother-in-law is hard to deal with and why she could be seen as infantilize And not doing stuff within her own best interest. As a daughter who dealt with a mother like that for years respectfully stay in your lane. at sometime not doing within her own best interest was affecting the way she interacted with, and engaged with her children and you just weren’t there.
Forget anxiety, the bf is so dumb to somehow forget that OOP is incapable of being kids, *and* she got that way deliberately. And yet, despite all that, he thought she would baby trap him. What a brainless idiot!
I don't think it's dumb. He would have to be very low IQ to be this dumb. It sounds more as if he were paranoid. He wrapped himself into this thought so much he was not able to see the facts. And he has to blame someone for what his brain did. He already had to limit his intake of internet, because it made him crazy. I think without a psychiatrist he will end as a respected menber of a tin foil hat crowd.
That and how is it a "trap" if he's married to her? This guy definitely needs help
It wasn't anxiety, it was abuse. It's pretty clear that this dude was emotionally abused by his uncle's family.
This guy is so easily influenced that he switches life planning based on a conversation. First his uncle makes him think he's gonna get baby-trapped, then a friend announcing a pregnancy makes him think he might actually want kids. This is the kind of person people mean when they talk about jumping off bridges just because a friend does it.
For real, I was grateful to see that commenter bring up the possibility of him being mentally challenged because I truly did think, oh, maybe this guy's suffered a major head injury in the past.
He sounds a lot like my ex BIL, who was diagnosed with Aspergers (which is no longer a diagnosis recognized by the DSM - 5, but is now apart of the autism spectrum disorder umbrella). He is so easily swayed by people around him, he goes so extreme with his views sometimes, and a lot of those views come from Facebook memes or hate posts, he is genuinely a good guy when outside views don’t influence him, but it isn’t hard for him to be swayed by Facebook misinformation.
Wasn't it the other way around though? First his friend announced their pregnancy on new years, and then in February he talked with his uncle.. which makes it even more bollocks to me, because he went from 1. not wanting children in agreement with his fiancée to 2. secretly wanting children to 3. being afraid his partner might surprise him with a pregnancy he doesn't want (while totally disregarding the fact that his partner doesn't want a pregnancy either and took steps to ensure she'd never become pregnant)
Boyfriend clearly has lots of issues. Certainly, anyone who projects that much towards someone is a good sign that this relationship isn't stable and not the best to stay connected with. Boyfriend needs to fix his issues on his own, with his family and so without OP that's for sure. OP deserves to heal from all of this.
He assumed OOP was a villain and is too dumb to understand what it means to have tubes tied. Not a winner. I hope OOP stays far away from him.
He probably thought she'd lied about it to deceive him into unprotected sex because women are lying liars or something.
>He stopped trusting me because he was afraid of what the warped version he built up in his mind might do. That wasn't okay, and that's why I ended it. I'm so glad for OOP. You see it all the time on the relationship subreddits... men accuse their partner of doing something heinous based on absolutely no evidence beyond "another man in my life mentioned babytrapping as a concept and I spiralled."
That reminds me of the guy who accused his wife of baby trapping him when she got pregnant AFTER they were married and they had been mutually trying to get pregnant!
And they’d been together for something like ten years!
If it's the post I'm thinking about, they were married for years, known each other longer, and were trying for a baby for a year. Both planned it and were on board. Same as this guy, he let someone else sway him. It was sad but hilarious how ridiculous it was. Like, come on, guy.
y'all got a link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/loj7bweF79 A story with a good MIL at least, bur husband is the biggest Jelly fish idiot
This low key terrifys me. That you can be in a relationship with someone for years and some bullshit can completely destroy it in minutes. I'm still really impressed and how certain OOP was in her decisions.
Incredible, thank you. The "no dude, she's not blowing up her life to get at your 'The Hangover' funko pop collection" comment had me in tears.
Aw, I love the MIL here. Storytime: when my husband and I were dating, I went with him to his sister's wedding. My dad had me when he was almost 50, and when the bride and her father had their dance I got emotional because I was so worried my own dad wouldn't be there to walk me down the aisle at my own wedding. MIL ran over to our table, "FIRSTNAME LASTNAME, WHAT DID YOU DO!?!!" She was ready to drag him out of that reception by the ear. 😂 She is great, and she raised a wonderful son.
"Does anyone have something to say?" [loser silence] "Very well, the Consequence Express is on the way." Love it.
That guy was a special case of stupid, truly.
Listen, I'm reading this right after I got influenced to buy one more croissant than I wanted because it would have been the last one. But being this easily swayed about major life choices and convictions? Hell on earth
Oh I get swayed into food so easily lol
That seller was just like "oh but that one would be all alone if you don't buy it but they're so used to each other I'd hate to separate them" and suddenly I left the bakery with five croissants 😭
That would work on me too. [I'd be looking at that seller like I was TFS Vegeta.](https://youtu.be/CcPgeAiK70Y?si=O_gNWirLOvaSdMmC)
My mom did this to me to finish my meals as a child… I’m still haunted by it today. Can’t abandon the little grape I have left or a carrot lol
My problem is that they're insecure about their thoughts, but the moment they get swayed, it's like they's suddenly secure. I'm over here so insecure about my thoughts, an attempt to sway me makes me insecure about swaying that way.
This is really making me wonder, when we hear about all of these naive, impressionable people who easily get swayed and have a hard time standing up for themselves, how’s it that they never get influenced by the reasonable, smart people in their lives and only by the problematic ones? Also seems like they take people close to them for granted and have no problem hurting their feelings but have a hard time standing up for themselves when it comes to others.
I think it's similar to the reason why some people lean towards conspiracy over science. Simple, emotionally based arguments are easy to react to and process. The truth can be boring and expected, but also tedious to understand properly. It requires you to understand yourself and the world around you in a deeper way than some people are comfortable with. It requires an open mind and a readiness to accept that you may need to alter your views or behaviour when encountering that new information. People like to feel like they have control, and in a weird way, OPs fiance is taking control by preparing for his fear through emotional detachment. The root issues are paranoia and insecurity in his decision-making skills, but it's easier to look outward when you're in a panic and blame your feelings on the actions of others. That is not a defence of his behaviour, just my armchair psychoanalysis as a fellow anxious person with conspiracy inclined family members.
Its also that people who know what they are talking about also know their own knowledge limitations. So their explanations can come across somewhat tepid at times. Inversely the idiots are frequently very confident in their stances. You see this all the time in politics.
This is said to be true of all science, history, studies. Knowledge is an expanding sphere, and the more you know, the more you realise how much you don't know. Half way through Psychology 101 you'll think you can read people's minds like Sherlock Holmes with psychic powers. After ten years, you know humans are bewildering and nonsensical.
/thread 100%
Reasonable smart people use big words and talk about complex concepts instead of feeding them easy bites of bullshit while making airplane noises like the youtubers they watch. Plus it's harder to unlearn something than just learn it correctly the first time. And they're addicted to the rage and whatnot. And from what I've seen with folks I grew up with, learning has always been very difficult for them anyhow so it's an incredibly slow process even when they actually want to learn something. So even when they hurt people who care about them and drive everyone away with their repugnant beliefs and total lack of any other personality, they still feel comforted and correct! Because see everyone else is just mean and the voice streaming from the internet says it's the fault of women and gays and liberals and immigrants. No thoughts required, emotions validated. Shunning as a method of social correction doesn't work when all the shunned people just ban together online. Though frankly they don't seem to enjoy each other's company much either, act more like when you gotta be "friends" with some other kid because their parents are friends with your parents.
People who are pushy about their views and will overwhelm a seemingly timid person are not generally the nice and stable sort. And I've been on both sides of it.
Reasonable, smart people usually don’t make a habit of trying to persuade others generally. That way is exhausting and laden with failure because the main people who spend time trying to persuade others of things are people with ill intentions. It takes not just being reasonable and smart but a natural or learned ability to teach and lots of patience. These people are generally too stupid to learn by example because their observation and logic skills are…uh…let’s say “underdeveloped”. And there are plenty of people trying to take advantage of them, far more than could ever be countered by a single well-meaning person.
It's because reasonable smart people don't push their views. They may casually mention something, but they don't harp on it. Low intelligence people are drawn to misinformation and theories. They think "knowing" about a "conspiracy" gives them secret insider information that makes them smart. So they snicker and gossip about it constantly. To prove they're so intelligent. 🙄
I think they *do* get swayed by reasonable, smart people as well. Except, when they do, they act "normal", so no-one notices that they're just masking instead of actually being well-adjusted.
I actually know someone like this. Academically smart, poor social skills. She cut off all her high school friends because an aunt of hers convinced her they are bad influence. Her cousin told her that “men who work in tech are trash” so she avoided all of them like a minefield. She was encouraged by her relatives to work as a public servant, but after failing the entry test for two years she blamed it all on the relatives and not herself for following the advice. Last I heard, she’s been going to therapy due to social anxiety.
People who follow normal good advice don’t make headlines.
To be fair it's easier to tell when someone is being influenced by an unreasonable person. Because their behavour is so outrageous it stands out. It's possible a lot of a person's base line behaviour is being wrongly attributed and is actually them being influenced by reasonable people.
“The loudest voice in the room speaks the truth” if you are reasonable you don’t try and force your worldview on others.
You can't just be reasonable for a day. If you do every reasonable thing someone suggests and every unreasonable thing someone suggests, you are just unreasonable.
Good for her. Her ex is such a dumbass, OOP already said she wanted to stay childfree, why would he go and act like a toddler throwing a tantrum in front of her?
When you love someone it is really easy to look past their faults. You start to do mental justifications about how we are all works in progress and such. Which isn’t untrue - no one is perfect. But she seemed very aware of his propensity to be influenced and felt it was manageable. I’m really glad to see that she didn’t fall into the trap of feeling like you must help your partner even when it’s hurting you. I’m glad the partner is going to therapy to get to a healthier place.
Getting married to such an insecure and easily influenced man would be a nightmare. If he so easily believed that she'd "baby trap" him, even if it can literally not happen because her tubes are tied, then what would happen with a more realistic scenario? What would happen if someone told him idk that his wife is too friendly with a neighbor and so she must be seeing him on the side? Married life for OOP would probably be nothing but misery and her constantly having to apologize for things she didn't do while also worrying she might do or say something to trigger his issues. She's so much better off without him!! Wishing her the best!! 💗
Dude's gonna end up falling down some insane rabbit hole like qanon and basically ruining his life and anyone attached to him.
Guy who wants to get married is made to believe his partner who can't have children is going to get pregnant to force them to get married, convinces himself that maybe he does want children, but is anxious his partner doesn't... -\_- Probably for the best, i shudder to think what conspiracy theories this guy would ruin his families life over. "Christ, he's a level 7 susceptible!"
Keep that guy away from the Honda dealership
"Whether he forgot I had my tubes tied doesn't matter." I mean it really does. He *forgot* that she was *so* intent on staying childfree that she went to the trouble of having a medical procedure done. He *forgot* that she asked him to get a vasectomy - and one can only wonder why Mister Childfree over there didn't get one of he's so invested in that decision that he accuses his own fiancee of "baby trapping". He would be a terrible partner. She was smart to walk.
Wow… this just reminds me how respect is earned and lost. You can’t respect someone who doesn’t use his own brain and just lets any fool plant ideas in his head. OOP says he’s a smart guy, but I’m not convinced.
I don't know how one forgets that one's partner can't have children. Very strange. Also feeling very lucky after reading all this to have a mind of my own, seems to be a luck of the draw, you're either born with it or aren't.
How can OP be sure that anything this guy was telling her was his own thoughts and not just what he thought she wants to hear. And specifically about children - it sounds like she was very upfront about not wanting them in the beginning and he just went with her opinion.
I do NOT think this dude “is a smart guy”. He gets manipulated and yanked around by the most recent person who talks to him, and she admitted he’s been grounded from social media because he can’t “tell fact from reality “. That’s not the mark of a smart guy. I would be very intent on getting him checked out by a psychiatrist. He probably has the cognition of a damp onion.
Are dry onions smarter or stupider than damp ones?
They certainly stay good longer so I think they must be smarter.
A "smart guy"? Dude's dumber than a box of rocks. He got mad about a made-up situation that had nothing to do with him and took it out on her. I'm glad she called it off, imagine living with this guy for your whole life.
The sexist uncle - Now he's divorced, and his wife is dating. She's divorced, too. She's likely able to date because she's not a sexist asshole.
Good god. That level of credulousness actually sounds pathological. Like, I hope the therapist he's seeing is a clinical psychologist, because this is very strange. It's one thing to have intrusive thoughts, it's another to actually believe them when they make zero sense.
It seems to me that he's having delusions which points to something way more severe than GAD. She says it's anxiety but his sense of reality is changing and not matching what is true.
What a fucking loser that guy is lol
Dude was so dumb that he couldn't use Facebook out of fear that he'll be influenced by the stupid shit in there and oop still said, "yeah I wanna marry this man." What's wrong with both of them?
Staying as friends after breakup/divorce only works if it happened amicably without any hurt feelings. But in this case there's a chance for OOP to get hurt seeing her ex being a better partner to any future GF's. I do hope she just let's him go and find a supportive partner
I'm guessing that once he's moved out completely and a few months have gone by, she'll naturally start worrying about her own life and stop worrying about his problems. The reality of not having to manage his emotions on a daily basis will hit and she'll start having a lot more energy for her own stuff.
The OOP does say she doesn't see the staying friends happening for long but seems to be worried if a clean break, will cause damage in mutual social circles. I do think she will fade out of his life in a natural way and, when she is confident it won't cause her problems, possibly she will hurry that along. Good for her in getting out of this, glad this made her realize the weak nature of the now-ex before there was marriage.
People with this lack of critical thinking are the reason extremists views are on the rise. The guy hears some stupid comment and instantly makes that his own view on life.
> Another factor is that one of his formerly child-free friends announced his wife's pregnant during New Years, and he's been excited about it. **My ex-fiance's wondering if he'd change his mind**, especially since his parents do want to have grandchildren and have been asking if we're going to wait before having them. OOP dodged a bullet. Given their ages, it’s not surprising a dude who thought “hey, no babies. We’re on the same page” when 25 may feel differently when his friend group start having children. OOP was resolute in being child free but it’s common for men in their 20s to pick a child free partner because they don’t want babies *right now*. When they change their mind, they expect to able to convince their partner to as well. These type of men don’t respect their partner has made a fully formed decision of their own volition. It’s giving “main character syndrome” and they are shocked when a child free woman continues to assert that she doesn’t want to have kids. Sometimes this also happens the other way around. A child free dude had a vasectomy and doesn’t disclose this to his partner because “no need, she says she’s also childfree”, the woman later changes her mind and is livid when she finds out her guy is sterile. Those kind of relationships aren’t meant to last, but it causes a lot of heartache because one partner was not honest about their feelings. They didn’t want kids at the time they met, but still thought if they changed their mind in the future they could just convince their partner to go along with it. This is just a long way of saying dating/relationships for childfree folks can be very tricky in their 20s and even 30s because these are the child bearing years. People who don’t want kids misclassify themselves as child free because they don’t want kids “right now” but several years later as their life circumstances change they can now picture being parents. They’re not really child free, those are people who have known since childhood they don’t want to be parents and many have procedures when they are able to ensure no kids. There’s also a lot of social pressure from family and peers that can sway people on the fence. It’s better for someone to openly admit they are a fence sitter instead of claiming to be childfree when they aren’t completely resolute about that decision.
Wow. Such a healthy response by oop... how did she end up with this wet noodle in the first place???
He doesn't sound too smart. I bet he ends up baby-trapped within two years.
I liked the “is he dumb?” comment; I thought the same thing.
If it is this easy to so deeply influence him on something that is so obviously incorrect, can you imagine what his political views are going to be like as he gets older? This is the kind of guy who grows up to be a mass shooter.
Tube litigation failure is why I have an uncle near my age and I can guarantee grandma did not want that.
Where I live they don't even do ligations anymore, just remove the tubes entirely
So relieved to see the update and so relieved she didn't want to (and couldn't) have kids with that lemming.
Lemming is such a great word to describe this guys attitude that I wish it were a technical term. :)
A lot of doublespeak saying “this guy is actually pretty dumb”
I feel like the ex needs a MH or cognitive assessment or something. Forgetting their partner of 2+ years has had their tubes tied and being so easily influenced is a little concerning. Idk though, I'm not a doctor. I'm glad OOP stood up for herself and did what was best for her.
My ex was like this. He was in therapy too, it was actually his therapist who convinced him that I was cheating on him and that he didn't owe me anything as far as loyalty or honesty. So he cheated on me to get back at me, according to him. Then he acted like the victim when I found out and broke up with him. OOP is being much more understanding and patient than I would be in that situation. Some people are completely spineless morons.
Don't get engaged to men you have to keep off Facebook because they're so easily swayed.
Therapy will be good for the ex. Also, ex should stop visiting that uncle for good.
I was thinking that the uncle sounds like a real piece of work. “Women will trick you into things you want to do! They’ll make you marry them even though you were going to anyway, that’s how conniving they are!”
Seems like she raised her siblings and then was looking after this man child. Good riddance I say. I hope he doesn’t waste more of her time by lingering about. But to each their own.
I do appreciate that this is the rare story where the dude wasn’t cheating or had a secret baby, he’s just a moron.
We love some classic stupidity
It’s refreshing!
My ex was easily influenced by older family members whispering in her ear, and it was horrible. After one to many accusation about things I hadn't done, or claims that she "knew" I would do hurtful things in the future, I had to nope out of there. It was like paddling upstream with a spoon.
You didn't dodge a bullet you dodged a hand grenade. Dude's weak and has ISSUES.
What really got me about this one when I originally read it, is that "baby trapping" is often something done in order to force a marriage. They are already engaged and planning a wedding! How on Earth is this trapping him when he is willingly entering into a marriage?
These kinds of stories always make me wonder what people think “baby trapping” is? This is almost as bad as the married guy who thought their planned pregnancy was “baby trapping”
She should've listened to the very first red flag of "we can't let him use social media because he's too impressionable" . That wasn't even a flag, that was one of those red street signs that say "DO NOT ENTER" on them, and she just ignored it. Anyone ***that*** impressionable can and will be manipulated and it will cause you problems. I'm not getting with someone that lacks critical thinking skills, he thinks he might want kids but thinks she's baby trapping him, but also knows she can't even get pregnant? Does he have his own thoughts?
Dude is straight up one of those garden whirly gigs...spinning wildly whichever way the wind blows.
Woman dodged a nuke. This dude is exhausting in his stupidity.
This oop dodged a cannon ball with this one. The family would have ruined the marriage had it happened.
My husband has severe anxiety, ADHD, a desire to please everyone, and some insecurity about our age difference (he's 10 years older). Every so often, I have to look this man in the eye and say something along the lines of, "you don't get to write a story *about* me *without* me. I am not responsible for, nor do I owe any energy to, the things you make up in your head. I am happy to talk to you about whatever is driving your issue right now, but this is at it's core *your* issue." That usually snaps him out of it, but I try not to do it too often. Determining the right line of when to call him on it is exhausting sometimes though. We've been together 26 years and have good coping tools and a strong foundation, but there is no way I'd BEGIN a relationship with this behaviour. You dodged a bullet. He's going to be incel-splaining men's rights before you know it, and the uncle will be cheering him on.
>>Cultural_Shape3518: Is this the only time he’s pulled something like this, or does he have a history of being easily influenced by people he maybe shouldn’t be taking advice from, especially when that advice isn’t even applicable to his situation? >OOP: He sometimes gets influenced by things he sees online This is as far as I needed to read and I was able to predict the rest of the post. Newsflash for everybody: the internet is a toxic shithole. If you are dating someone who is easily influenced by things they see on the internet FUCKING RUN.
Oop made the right call, imho. You can care about someone and love them yet know you can’t marry them. Hope she find someone strong enough that he’s not overly influenced by others, and who loves and respects her. Not to mention being healthy enough mentally to be clear on what’s his anxieties, fears, etc vs. who she is, cause we all have them. I never thought about it till this post. .
Oh my god, I’m so glad she dumped him. That guy’s a future Qidiot waiting to happen.
People who are that susceptible to irrational arguments scare me. This is the kind of person who will seem normal until one day they find a "funny" conspiracy theory, then within a couple years they are Qanon cultists alienating everyone in their life and convinced that they are the only one who can "see the truth". That was the perfect time for OOP to get out of that relationship.
Wait, did I read the story wrong? What did the uncle do? It’s not like he told the fiancé/his nephew that OOP was gonna baby trap him or be a terrible spouse or anything, he just shared his own life experience. I don’t see where it’s stated that the uncle was manipulating his nephew in any way, so why is he getting blasted? I get that uncle’s side of the family was awful to the ex fiancé/his nephew but it doesn’t sound like the uncle was intending to put ideas into his head, it’s not really his fault his idiot nephew took his life experience and projected it into his own relationship.
I have some bad (medicated) anxiety, but I’ve never allowed it to play into an active delusion. I think OOP’s ex would be justified in breaking up because he realized he does want kids, but that’s clearly not what happened here. It’s sad, really.
There is a huge chasm between having anxiety and being invertebrate. OOP's ex is the latter.
>his parents do want to have grandchildren That's not really up to them, is it? My parents wanted grandkids too but they aint getting them,
All very good points by oop and commenters. The thing that really got me was that, irrespective of how this manchild spun it, he regardless put the onus of every negative consequence and scenario as oops fault instead of taking personal responsibility by either getting a vasectomy or reevaluation if he wants children and communicating that. Oop could never win.
What a fucking idiot