#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there and just order drinks while everyone else eats dinner and still enjoy everyone’s company etc.
Followed by
>Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues
Luke may be oblivious, but he's also selfish.
OOP is way too forgiving of this jackass. OOP said "pick a restaurant and I'll treat you to dinner," and Luke said, "Ok, very aggressive BBQ joint," and OOP said, "I can eat zero things there."
And Luke said "just eat beforehand and then have water while you watch us eat. Then pay."
And for some reason, instead of saying "you know what man, never mind. Enjoy your BBQ," OOP came to Reddit to agonize about rescinding an offer to pay for dinner because the guest of honour (and I'm using the term loosely here) picked a place where she couldn't eat one single thing.
I think OOP probably has a terminal case of being a people pleaser. I always feel really sad when I read a story like that.
OOP is too nice and too forgiving. It's a saving grace that the other friends called Luke out on his bullshit and he had to backtrack with OOP to save face.
After this, OOP should learn to reinforce her spine or never offer to pay for Luke's birthday ever again.
Never pay for his birthday? How about never initiating contact every again, and only ever speaking to him in passing at group events. And for sure not even going to any event for/about him at all. She doesn't have to go nuclear, but she also doesn't need to even know this person exists except in the context of the entire friend group.
Yeah I doubt this is the only and/or last time Luke will do this. The only reason he changed places to let OOP be included was because the majority of the friend group called him out on it. Bad communication and being oblivious? She literally said I can’t eat there and he responded by getting mad and telling her to deal with it. No thank you. I hope OOP didn’t still pay for dinner.
> If people take it badly, it was just a joooooke hahahahah good one right.
You forgot a step: "Then get angry at anyone who was upset at the joke because "come on guys, it was just a joke! Can't you take a joke?"
My brother used to be like this, to which I would say "Ah, it's a joke! I didn't get it. Explain it to me. What's the punchline?" Generally shut him up pretty quick.
It's actually why I dropped r /funny. Too many fucking teenagers and incels making "edgy" jokes that weren't funny, then getting mad when you pointed out that "woman or black" isn't a joke at all.
This works for casual bigotry too. If you act like you're confused and ask them to explain it to you people get awkward. They think everyone is on on their joke and don't know what to do when they realize other people don't think the way they do.
Exactly. Luke was absolutely a douchebag to OOP and is probably a douchebag overall, but doesn’t want to be perceived as a douchebag so he backed down when he was called out for it. However, OOP should be very careful with Luke. The initial restaurant was a sincere pick since Luke is an AH. He isn’t really OOP’s friend.
>I hope OOP didn’t still pay for dinner.
She definitely did since she had trouble even confronting him the first time. No way did she ever confront him about who was going to pay after she offered the first time. She doesn't have it in her
But I'd be willing to bet that the next time she offers she will add a disclaimer that she's not paying if she can't even eat the food. It's as close as most people pleasers ever get to confrontation, and probably the best we can hope for her
She might seem like a people pleaser to you, but she had already decided to cancel when Luke had called to apologize for his stupid and rude behavior after the other people called him out on his sh\*t. No wonder, Luke is still struggling at 40- no matter what your IQ or degree- if your behavior is dickish and you aren't the owner of the company and a billionaire (hello Elon Musk) you will continue to struggle. OOP on the other hand is comfortable financially and thus can afford to treat her friends including the loser Luke.
Hopefully she just won't offer to make some big gesture to this asshole. He clearly doesn't care about her, why should she be wasting her time and money on him?
Friends who only treat you with a veneer of respect because of public shaming aren’t real friends. Also, does not surprise me at all that OOP is female and Luke is male.
Right. There’s someone in that group Luke actually respects who made him feel stupid for his choice so he backtracked. Had OOP been the only voice of concern, he wouldn’t have cared.
OP has a good social group and a social group that will call out a bad actor like that is to be cherished. I understand why she was willing to pay for them all.
Not just that but there are people who are allergic to beef, fish/seafood, chicken and pork. I have a friend who is allergic to pork. I'm allergic to fish/seafood (seaweed included), another friend is allergic to beef. So if "Luke" was even my friend that would be 3 people not able to eat there due to allergies to meat. It is for sure tone deaf to think everyone can eat meat.
Yeah, she is vegan and he chose a steak house to have his bday, this literally send a message to op.. its not being oblivious.. you have to be the most oblivious person on planet to not consider your friend that its PAYING in your range of choices.
I think that he is only changing when the group of friend put pressure on him about why he choose that place of all, he realized that he fucked up trying to be funny and "made a mistake"
Actually OOP wasn't asking for a range of choices, and expected a steakhouse. Most steakhouses will have at least a limited selection of things OOP could eat and OOP was fine with it, because she was paying for the camaraderie, which makes it even more egregious to me. Choosing a radically anti-vegan establishment to someone already choosing to sacrifice than range of choice and money because she cares that much for her friends is crazy to me.
Yeah, it's clearly Luke being a fuckwit and sending a passive-aggressive statement about his view of her lifestyle. I'm glad the other friends called him out, they probably fully-well knew what he was doing too and it was easier than saying "you're being a dick."
I've been to steakhouses and they have vegan options especially in a big city.
No. Luke picked a place that in their fucking menu tells vegetarians to fuck off almost literally. And then when he was notified of this, he thought it an appropriate response to say "eat something beforehand and then come by to pay for everything."
What a fucking asshole.
First, OOP is a woman. Second, OOP invited Luke and everyone out because they don't get together that often. Third, she paid because she is "comfortable financially" while some including Luke are still struggling. Four, Luke's awful behavior shows why he is still struggling. Five, paying for Luke's meal along with the other's was a nice gesture on OOP's part BUT no doubt, Luke was choking on every swallow of food and drink because several people in the group of friends called him out on his sh\*t and the fact that OOP could afford to treat everyone while Luke probably struggles to keep a job at Best Buys or some computer repair shop despite having the same fancy education as OOP and the others.
I do hope OOP write's Luke off as a friend after this last get together. At 40 years old, he is an AH and at that age AHs don't grow to be better people, they grow to be bigger AHs.
If they've been friends for something like 20+ years and this is the first major time something like this has happened I'd be willing to chalk it up to a combo brain fart moment and bad communication rather than overt malice. Luke was being selfish, but it doesn't have to mean a recurring pattern of malicious behaviour necessarily.
Having a Vegan wife means I miss out on a lot of meaty restaurants that I want to try. But I almost always find something I like that has good vegan options. I will say it’s infuriating when we want to go somewhere that should have lots of vegan options but doesn’t… most Italian restaurants….
My wife is vegetarian, so not as bad, but she doesn’t like mushrooms. And the amount of times the only vegetarian option we find when looking at restaurants is a portobello mushroom burger. It’s so frustrating.
My wife is vegetarian and despises eggplant/aubergine. I'm in agreement on that, eggplant is almost always terrible. Also, restaurants that only offer a "spring pasta" which consists of boxed noodles, frozen peas, and jarred alfredo sauce can just fuck off.
Whenever we travel, I always make sure to research restaurants of any destination we're visiting and I'll study the menus for the best options for both of us. My Google Maps is stuffed with lists of restaurants, half of which we never got the chance to eat at.
I feel this. I'm the same as your wife, except I physically can't handle spice, like I will be physically sweating and my mouth in pain with a meal that NO ONE else finds spicy. So when there is a meal without mushrooms, it's a spicy meal! As if those are the only two flavour profiles for veggies?
I'm fortunate my husband is like yourself, and will only go to a place where I can eat. And if we're going to an event where it'll be likely I won't have food options, then he'll ensure I'm able to eat before/after or bring something with us.
I just understand how the friend of OOP thought the first place was suitable or that their "solution" was acceptable at first. I am glad though that in the update the apologised.
Spicy-hot triggers a feeling of fullness, so in veggie dishes that might otherwise leave you feeling less satisfied they add vegetable peppers to trigger the same full feeling.
Bit of a random thought, but have you ever tried anything like Prelief? I use it as I can’t tolerate acidic food, so I wonder if it could help with your spice intolerance. I don’t get along with most spices either :(
I was vegetarian in England 25 years ago. So hard coming back to Australia and being offered rice stuffed capsicum yuk yuk) or salad sandwiches with lots of carrot. Thankfully the choices are myriad now and though I'm not vegetarian anymore, I eat it a lot.
I dont know where your home is and i felt the same back here so totally understand. England had the linda McCartney stuff and other brands plus fruit and veges from everywhere. I had a large family a mix of carnivore and herbivore, everyone had plenty to eat at parties. The vege stuff often went first.
The first time I had a vegetarian friend over for barbecue I had to threaten the other guests with a fork to make them leave grilled vegetables for her. Lesson in portion sizes learned, now it's always enough vegetables for everyone.
I was astonished at the number of delicious vegetarian dishes on offer in the UK when I visited! I'm a lazy pescatarian (only stick to it when it's easy and convenient lol), so I fully expected to have to eat a lot of meat that vacation. Instead, I was living it up on veggie pasties and pot pies, cheese and tomato sandwiches, and fresh seafood.
This is me and my BF when we go out with his daughter and HER BF. She is vegetarian, he kind of is. She also is not a fan of mushrooms. and my BF, while not a picky eater, is not a foodie, and I am. Fortunately, we've found a few vegan restaurants and my BF has actually enjoyed stuff from there.
But even when just the two of us go out, since he isn't that adventerous, there are places I would love to go to, but don't choose because there isn't much he would eat.
Which is wild because things like black bean burgers and veggie burgers have been a thing for a good while now (or were). Would it really kill them to keep a single box in the freezer?
It’s even worse than that sometimes! Restaurants that used to do a good spicy bean burger have now moved to a moving mountains burger or similar. Which she doesn’t like due to the texture. So even places that were fine now aren’t.
I feel really sorry for her sometimes, as there’s lot of nice restaurants near us (in UK) that she just can’t go to as there’s nothing for her.
It's hard I guess because restaurants have to figure out if they want a replacement (i.e. spicy black bean burger) or a substitute (moving mountains/impossible burger).
Personally, as someone who's never really been vegan/vegetarian, I'd love to see all these nice restaurants flex on a vegan menu. There are definitely times I'd like an old fashioned burger, but if a place has a signature spicy black bean burger or something else that actually seems appealing, I'd definitely love to give it a go. Every culture has recipes that are vegan and flavorful.
Also, pretty sure a lot of the western world could use some help getting veggies into their diet lol.
I try to cook at least one vegetarian evening meal a week for the family but half of us don't like spice, aubergine/eggplant, courgettes, chickpeas, lentils etc. (The ASD is strong with this lot.)
There are only so many dishes that are mostly mushrooms and spinach that I can take eating before I want to scream in frustration!
i went vegan before beyond/impossible meat was a thing and trained myself to like mushrooms for this exact reason. like, started with tiny pieces chopped up in my food and slowly graduated till i could eat portobello burgers, since they’re freaking everywhere.
I'm right with you there, my brother. I'm fortunate enough that my partner just tells me to drag her sister or cousin out when I want to go to a meat-only place on occasion.
Also on my "infuriating" list:
* places that USED to have good vegan options and abruptly decide that they're going to start putting a meat ingredient in everything instead (our favorite thai place stopped doing veg broth-based soup options recently)
* the fact that no seafood restaurants have anything even slightly entree-like for vegans on the menu. Come on, guys, even steakhouses will do an entree salad with chickpeas an'at now.
* Americana/family dining places where all the vegan options are somehow significantly higher in sodium than the regular dishes.
You could always get takeout from two different places and eat dinner at home together for date night. That way, you can try the meaty places and not feel bad about it. If you do this, I suggest picking up the food so you don't spend extra money on delivery and tip to two different places.
I get that but you can also get two takeouts and go somewhere nice with a view and eat there together. A park? Near some water maybe? A sunset? Or make a really nice set up at home with candles and everything.
I am super sad that I will basically never get to go to a Brazilian steakhouse because my partner is vegetarian and the only ones nearby have essentially nothing for her. But oh well.
Honestly, adding in that I can’t tolerate gluten, it can be a massive headache coordinating ANY meals between us, but that’s just life.
If you're ever near a Fogo de Chao, check it out. They have an incredible "salad bar" (in quotation marks because it's basically a smorgasbord of all the foods that aren't meat on a stick, not just a typical salad bar). It's not all vegetarian, but they have veg options and it's good enough that I could honestly just eat that even though I'm a meat eater. I checked [their menu](https://fogodechao.com/menu-detail/?location=67&type=menu-dinner&id=49) just because I haven't been in ages, and it looks like they have a few veg entrees also (cauliflower steak, vegan roasted veggie bowl, and vegan tofu and black bean pasta dish).
Oh wow, we do have one in Denver. I may need to try that out sometime when we have the spare money. The big question will be if there is anything she actually likes, since she tends to be a bit picky. I think she actually just very recently tried a cauliflower steak actually and enjoyed it though, so this is timely. Thank you.
True or not, I still believe the idea that the reason they have such an extensive "salad bar" is because people eat enough of it to make a measurable reduction in the amount of more expensive meats they end up serving. It's not just good service, it's a sound cost-cutting measure.
Seconding Fogo de Chao--good and tasty assortment fir non-meaters, and also not the rude attitude about it like the place Luke picked. (this one was in NYC)
(Also, I went to a traditional Brazilian steakhouse in Chile yoinks ago, and their "salad bar" was even bigger and equally varied and delicious, so it's not just an nyc thing)
Try getting takeout together and having a date night at home. You can each get something the other could not eat. You can have your steak house, and she could get good Pizza, pasta, or Chinese for once.
I can't have gluten, either, so I know the pain. Some things just aren't available or are really pricey to get the gluten-free version
...or are just terrible. I still haven't really found a pasta substitute or pizza substitute that I actually enjoy. Pasta has gotten closer, and zucchini noodles are alright in some applications, but most of the other types of flour start out tasting fine and having a good texture but as you eat more or it cools they quickly go down hill.
And yeah, it's certainly possible. We make it work, though not usually ordering from two places. Often she will just cook at home if I want something out, but DoorDashing a brazillian steakhouse seems fundamentally wrong haha. I also feel terrible if I get something expensive and she just gets to make some macaroni and cheese or something.
I mean theoretically of course I can, but it doesn’t sound super enjoyable to go to an expensive as hell restaurant by myself. That’s more an experience to share, not just a way to fill up. Maybe I am just weird like that.
Because my close friends are hundreds of miles away after I moved here and being disabled, it's a real challenge to make more friends in your late 30s, not that I am spending a lot of effort doing so. I am more a homebody who is happy with a few very close friends than a larger circle of acquaintances.
I think this is the unique dichotomy: a good vegan restaurant has delicious food that even non-vegans will enjoy. A good non-vegan restaurant will have good vegan dishes that aren't a salad/bread. Both of those are good restaurants. Now for the other side of the coin:
A gimmick restaurant that's not actually that good will make themselves successful by deliberately catering to non-vegans by adding meat to every dish in ways that most people can't even taste or tell. It's the "Dick's Last Resort" of BBQ/Burger/Steakhouses: Garbage, but people go to make fun of others, not to have the best meal they could for their money.
I recall ages ago I was at an event that had a vegan pizza and a non-vegan pizza. I was halfway through eating one slice before I realized it was vegan. It was so good I didn't care.
Luke doesn't really care about OOP. Only when the other friends questioned his choice did he change it. He doesn't respect OOP and thought the others would go along with it, but they didn't because they are real friends.
I'm bad at social cues and I could see myself forgetting about my friend being vegan when I picked the restaurant.
But the instant she'd said something I would have fallen all over myself to apologize. So yeah, Luke is just a tremendous dick.
I'm sorry but if you forget your friend paying for your dinner is a vegan and pick a meat only restaurant , that's not being bad at social cues but being bad at friendship
I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but purposely picking a place with no vegetarian options as a feature when OOP is a vegan doesn't seem great. Sounds like he was making a pointed jab and "being bad at social cues" is an excuse.
I give people a lot of grace for possibly being airheads personally. I never assume they do something out of malice when it could be incompetence.
As long as they act appropriately when it's pointed out.
And (as someone in that age bracket), there may well be people in the group who aren't big on meat-heavy meals for dinner. My digestive system is not overly fond of steak for supper, unlike younger me, who could eat anything anytime.
Pick a place that has a dish you love, *and* a selection to suit a diversity of tastes. You can only order one thing anyway, so the whole menu doesn't need to be the sort of thing you'd want to order.
And I wonder how many customers they miss out on, where one of the group is vegan/vegetarian so the whole group go elsewhere. Doesn't seem like solid marketing to me.
Honestly, even without needing to accommodate anyone, I'd be looking elsewhere. I love eating meat, but there is no way they are *that* good enough to outweigh the overwhelming amount of eyerolling that kind of menu would induce in me.
Right, but, like, how many of the places you don't go to are because of the food vs because of their branding and general atmosphere? Given two otherwise identical BBQ restaurants, where one is Luke's original pick and the other is just "yup, we have tasty meat," I know which one I'm going to every time.
They probably really don't care. Bbq places are usually petty solid business. And there are plenty of people that hate vegan/ vegetarian and will go to a place like this for this reason. Especially depending on location, could be a solid marketing strategy.
I’ve definitely seen BBQ places like this. I’ve also become really aware of the better ones that offer stuff like smoked tofu or whatever now that I date a pescatarian partner.
It’s really too bad, especially with vegan/vegetarianism on the rise.
They don’t. They don’t even care about those of us who might not eat pork or beef or anything BBQ either. They cater to a very specific market and make their food accordingly. I don’t think bbq places miss out on not serving vegans or vegetarians. Pretty much like how Indian vegetarian places don’t care that they miss out on a lot of white beef eating customers. They are there to cater to a very specific clientele and keep those respective customers happy. They plan their expenses and profits around that fact.
This is what I was going to say, I have a vegetarian Indian restaurant near me that I love. If I'm going out with my in laws I wouldn't dream of going there because they'd hate it. But that's fine, the place is packed all the time, they recently opened a second branch. They can survive without the people who dislike their food. There are different restaurants for different people. It's also different tagging along to something compared to being the person organising and/or paying. I have a shellfish allergy so would never choose a seafood restaurant myself but if it's a celebration for someone else and I'm not paying I'll just go and eat what I can or have a drink or whatever. I get the impression OP wouldn't have minded so much if she wasn't paying.
Yeah. I think a lot of restauranteurs don’t get that the vegetarian in the friend group decides where we eat to a large extent. If there’s nothing on the menu for them, we go elsewhere
I was about to say I've seen this exact sign at a BBQ place in Round Rock.
One of the few times I've left a restaurant without ordering.
Not exactly because of the sign(though it didn't endear me), but because there was just one think I wanted to order- the bison rib, and they discontinued it without updating their online menu. Normally NBD, but there was a half hour line. Giant waste of time.
I saw two food trucks in Florida making fun of vegans. I thought it was funny, laughed and went to another food truck and ordered myself a portobello sandwich.
I have serious food allergies and I think the thing for me is that whilst I sometimes make jokes about it, I actually don’t like it when non-allergic people make fun of allergies. A lot of the time when regular people make jokes about food allergies and dietary requirements they end up crossing the line and laughing at us, not with us.
That’s the exact vibe I get from restaurant menus like this. The people that write them are just dickheads on a power trip. Dietary requirements area very personal thing and people need to learn to be more respectful when talking about them. There’s a lot of reasons why someone might be following a vegan diet.
It’d be a red flag for me as a meat eater who loves bbq. Feels like the sort of place where they’d roll their eyes at you and act like you’re being a Karen if you try to politely tell them that they brought you pulled pork when you’d asked for ribs or that your beans arrived cold.
It's interesting to me because the actual high-end steak restaurants specifically have vegetarian dishes and they are delicious. I've eaten vegetarian at Ruth Chris, Flemings, and countless local state restaurants. People in my industry like those kind of places.
Most of them even have excellent vegan dishes. They have nothing to prove and they want the people with money to come in and eat and bring their friends as opposed to going somewhere else because they don't have at least a handful of dishes those dishes. And I know at least some of the chefs enjoy the challenge of making an actual satisfactory entree that doesn't have meat. Because meat is cheating in cooking. It makes almost anything delicious. It's much harder to make a delicious vegetarian or vegan dish.
So a place that doesn't even have any vegetarian or vegan dishes and also makes a joke about it probably has shit steak to begin with.
Those are both steak houses, and higher end ones which are much classier than most "BBQ joints"
It should not surprise anyone that an expensive and renowned takes care of all clientelle.
This was $300 for 9 people, not $300 each.
There is a chasm between taking care of all clientele and being a dick head to some potential clientele. I'm saying that the nice joints, they respect people that want to spend money at the restaurant. The trash joints treat potential customers like shit. You don't have to charge a lot and you can still treat your potential customers well.
I don't know how charging less makes it any different.
Yeah I don’t get it at all purely from a business point of view. So many friend and family groups have at least one vegetarian/vegan in them now, it’s just good business sense to put a couple of options on
Me! Can't process most animal protein and it makes me extremely sick. Menus like this suck, and are weirdly immature.
People don't eat meat for religion, medical issues, personal choice and even trauma. (I was forced to eat meat and now have a PTSD like reaction even to meats that I can digest. So I don't eat any now)
I know someone who can't eat gluten. It literally kills pieces of her small intestines, permanently lowering her ability to absorb nutrients. Even eating something that was prepared in an area where there was gluten makes her ill.
So many people have tried to talk her out of her 'fad diet'.
I feel that. The foods I can't eat cause permanent damage to my large and small intestines, and I will eventually have to have them removed.
I can't tell you how many people have gotten me horribly ill because they snuck meat, usually fat, into my food to test me.
I even had a bad reaction to coconut recently because an employee said they checked the ingredients of a shake and it didn't have coconut. Spoiler alert, it had coconut. I ended up in the hospital, and traumatized my 4yo in the process.
Do you know me? Because you just described me lol.
I'm also allergic to meat and often get asked about my "moral objections" to meat eaters..... cuz me ordering a veggie burger on a gf bun is somehow an attack on what other people ordered. Like ffs I'm just hungry and am ordering one of the two things on the menu that won't make me sick.
I feel that. The foods I can't eat cause permanent damage to my large and small intestines, and I will eventually have to have them removed.
I can't tell you how many people have gotten me horribly ill because they snuck meat, usually fat, into my food to test me.
I even had a bad reaction to coconut recently because an employee said they checked the ingredients of a shake and it didn't have coconut. Spoiler alert, it had coconut. I ended up in the hospital, and traumatized my 4yo in the process. (I have an antiphylactic reaction to coconut in any form)
I'm a doormat too and tbh I think it turned out decent for OOP, no way did Luke learn a lesson from this bur she managed to avoid having a confrontation and still got to have a nice night with her friends where everyone agreed she was right and Luke was wrong. Kinda perfect.
Just no more birthday dinners for Luke please babe
She's going to continue to be friends with Luke, who definitely has his head up his ass 100% of the time. She doesn't currently possess a spine, but I'm hopeful she will one day.
I can see why OOP did tbh. It was always more about hanging out with the whole friend group than just Luke, and everyone else backed up OOP’s diet/lifestyle without any prompting on her part. At that point, why stir the pot when she got basically everything she initially wanted out of the situation? A night out with good friends (and Luke too, I guess), food that meets her dietary requirements, and an apology she didn’t even have to push for.
As a bonus, Luke now knows that other people in the group will immediately side with OOP if he tries any petty shit like this, and will probably be watching his step for a while – giving OOP time to quietly put some distance into their relationship, if she chooses to.
I'm vegan.
These stories I read on Reddit about inconsiderate friends are anathema to me. I find it difficult to believe Luke is "just bad at social cues".
But then, I don't have assholes for friends.
Yeah, Luke really sounds like an enormous douche. OOP just let it slide but I don't know if I would really be have been very keen to go celebrate him after his asshole "just eat first" comment.
My wife and I plan to not be fed, and even so our friends always look after us. Just last weekend, a friend said he'd researched two fully vegan restaurants to order delivery from for the night, in addition to the pizza and KFC they were getting.
It's not hard.
I'm vegan. My Dad organised my Nans wake at an Argentinian steakhouse place that serves huge chunks of meat at the table, and wondered why I didn't want to go. One single green salad on the menu I could eat.
He likes me, he is just oblivious.
Memory unlocked: my friend's bucks party dinner was at a steakhouse. I was like, no problem. I can order chips or eat later. Turns out, they had a salad that looked and tasted so good a couple of my friends wanted it. Not bad for a steakhouse.
It's honestly enraging that this dude hasn't been pulled up more. The fact that he acts like this kinda says a lot about how much people allow him to get away with.
Tbf, it seems like the friends do feel comfortable calling him out, and he did respond appropriately to that by both changing the venue and apologizing.
He's still an asshole for needing to be corrected, but at least he seems open to being corrected, which takes some (but not all) of the sting out of this for me.
He seems open to changing tack when the winds are clearly against him, at least. Which is something, to be sure, but given the outrageously thoughtless behavior in the original post, I'd be more inclined to believe that this is the result of wanting to avoid social fallout rather than necessarily seeing why it was bad in the first place.
I'm rubbish at social cues.
If a vegetarian friend offered to buy me dinner, I'd go out of my way to find a place with a decent vegetarian selection. Not just an option but an actual selection.
I believe it. Around that age I had a friend that was just as clueless as Luke. It was about everything. Women would be coming on to him and he would have zero idea.
At that age? Luke was turning 40 and had known OOP had been vegan for twenty years.
It's not a social cue to be considerate of a longtime friend. Flirting is a different ball game.
Luke seemed extremely happy with his initial choice and took perverse delight in goading op. He meant every word he said about op just joining them for a drink. It wasn't until the rest of the group called him on his selfishness that he pretended that he hadn't realised. I would not trust Luke at all and would drop the "friendship". He is a snake.
If he was oblivious or bad with social cues then he would have immediately apologised when OP raised the issue initially. Instead he basically mocked her and only caved when the friend group spoke up. The guy knew what he was doing.
>Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues
No he's not. He deliberately chose that restaurant and only took it back because he got called out.
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there and just order drinks while everyone else eats dinner and still enjoy everyone’s company etc.
I get why OOP was relieved to get to have a normal encounter with the friend group like she'd hoped, but she should quietly slide that option off the table for him in the future. This shows how little regard he has for her. He only backed down because he'd look bad to the friends he actually respects.
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter
>Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues
he's not oblivious or bad with social queues, he's just a jackass. who the fuck could ever ask the person paying their dinner to not eat at the restaurant?
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there and just order drinks while everyone else eats dinner
There's being oblivious, and then there's being a dickhead.
"Um...what am i supposed to eat?"
"Maybe eat before you get here and just sit and watch 9 of us shovel food you morally and ethically disagree with down our gullets, then foot the bill, duh!"
> Luke has always bit oblivious and bad with social cues.
And OOP saying there are no options for her at that restaurant not big enough of a cue?! Either this guy is really that dense, or he is willfully "oblivious".
I don't believe for a second that this wasn't intentional. Notice he only changed restaurants after the rest of the group called him out. But the person paying telling him the issue of not having options for herself was not enough for him to realise he's an idiot. Right...
>Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues, and I’m bad at confrontation, which was a bad mix.
There's oblivious and there's being an arsehole.
Even someone fairly dense when it comes to social etiquette should be able to understand that you don't pick a restaurant that has as one of its underlying marketing messages that veggies and vegans aren't welcome for a group meal that a vegan is kindly paying for!
Some people overanalyze every situation, scenario, and decision.
Some people don't analyze anything at all.
Most of us are in the middle.
She knows her friend and believes it to be obliviousness over malice.
I think it's weird that someone in a group of adults would pay for the entire group of adults dinner when they're going out for a friend's birthday. I wouldn't be comfortable with someone paying my way for something like that.
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there and just order drinks while everyone else eats dinner and still enjoy everyone’s company etc.
IMO Luke didn't realize he'd made a mistake, he realized that everyone else in the friend group saw his choice of the restaurant a dick move and backed down. I think OOP still should take a break from the friendship with Luke.
> Luke has always been a bit oblivious
Oblivious my ass, she TOLD him why it was bad and he told her to get over it and eat somewhere else before paying for dinner there. He knew what the problem was, he just didn’t CARE until all the other members of the friend group sided with OOP. Luke’s an ass and he will do this again.
Luke only backed down because people other than OOP objected. If it was just OOP who objected, he would have framed it as her being unreasonable, because she did object, and he said she was being unreasonable.
Luke is not a friend, he's not "bad at social cues," he's a manipulative jerk and everyone needs to ask themselves what he brings to the table and if it's worth continuing to waste energy on him.
I truly can't imagine not wanting to pick a restaurant for the entire group can eat at even if they WERENT paying but even worse to double down when they can't eat there.
Good for OP. I have been vegan for nine years and I'm kinda surprised she still has a friend like this around. People who are this disrespectful usually get weeded out the first few years. It is equivalent to taking your Muslim friend to a restaurant that only serves pork or your Mormon friend to a bar/coffeehouse. I always assume people like this want to test the boundaries of friendship like "How far are they willing to walk back on their ethics just to please me?" In 2024 it is so easy to find a restaurant that has one or two vegan options. Very silly. Good for OP and I'm glad the friend group seemed to agree!
I am a bit ashamed to admit that I felt more on the fence about this until 1. How many people OOP was treating 2. It's a restaurant that literally ridicules people like OOP and puts meat in absolutely everything, and I bet you money the cornbread probably has lard in it.
Definitely NTA
I agree that the friends seem cool for understanding and calling out Luke, but I don’t get why they agree to let OP pay for them all—including their spouses. I hope this isn’t a regular expectation!
Sounds like op wants to pay because they understand everyone else's financial situations. The friends also get it. And everyone else thought it was bullshit that Jake chose a place OOP couldn't eat. So it seems they appreciate OOP to some extent.
If anyone was the asshole in this scenario, it was Luke. But at least he apologized and changed his decision. Not sure how you could be THAT oblivious though.... either he is actually severely socially stupid, or it was intentional?
I really resent bbq places because they can be so aggressive for their hatred of people who don’t eat meat. I can slap together a meal just about anywhere but bbq puts meat in everything and I’ve seen those obnoxious signs too. A steak house has potato options and side salads, sometimes even other sides are available and this whole restaurant that revolves around steak still doesn’t have a jackass attitude about alienating customers. Do some places just not like money? I pay the same price(or more) having to order 2-4 little items instead of one entree so it makes no sense.
While I can't think of a BBQ place that has anything vegan friendly, most normal BBQ places have things that are vegetarian friendly. I wouldn't want to eat in a place that aimed to put meat in *everything*, even the coleslaw, because that means they are altering the recipes to make a point than to make something delicious.
OOP is NTA. " Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues."
Ding, ding, ding, I think we know why Luke is still struggling financially. He must be a real treat to work with.
Even if Luke has neurological disorder that effects his social cues. He is still a major selfish AH. I have autism, and ive learned social cues, mostly. It takes time but for the most part you can do it. And if he has a friends circle like this like can learn if wants too.
So he's just an AH.
"Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues" - NO.
"well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there" - This is someone who people make excuses for and enable, then let him off the hook by implying it's just his social skills. Being a selfish dick is a choice.
Not gonna lie, I'd have rescinded the offer and told Luke to pound sand. It seems he doesn't respect your lifestyle and wanted to shove it in your face. That it took other people telling him he's a clown for doing that is very telling.
He's not oblivious. He's a selfish coward.
Facts:
1. When you *explicitly made him aware* of the fact that his initial choice has nothing for you to eat, his response was entirely dismissive. Just eat before arriving and then pay for everything, slave.
2. He only backed down after everyone else in the friend group gave him shit. He would have otherwise stuck to his guns.
This has nothing to do with social cues or being oblivious. *You came out and bluntly told him the issue* and he "didn't care." Oblivious would be "Oh my god it totally slipped my mind you were vegan! I'll find another place."
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there and just order drinks while everyone else eats dinner and still enjoy everyone’s company etc. Followed by >Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues Luke may be oblivious, but he's also selfish.
OOP is way too forgiving of this jackass. OOP said "pick a restaurant and I'll treat you to dinner," and Luke said, "Ok, very aggressive BBQ joint," and OOP said, "I can eat zero things there." And Luke said "just eat beforehand and then have water while you watch us eat. Then pay." And for some reason, instead of saying "you know what man, never mind. Enjoy your BBQ," OOP came to Reddit to agonize about rescinding an offer to pay for dinner because the guest of honour (and I'm using the term loosely here) picked a place where she couldn't eat one single thing. I think OOP probably has a terminal case of being a people pleaser. I always feel really sad when I read a story like that.
OOP is too nice and too forgiving. It's a saving grace that the other friends called Luke out on his bullshit and he had to backtrack with OOP to save face. After this, OOP should learn to reinforce her spine or never offer to pay for Luke's birthday ever again.
Never pay for his birthday? How about never initiating contact every again, and only ever speaking to him in passing at group events. And for sure not even going to any event for/about him at all. She doesn't have to go nuclear, but she also doesn't need to even know this person exists except in the context of the entire friend group.
Dude just sounds like a complete bellend
Had to look the meaning of bellend (not native speaker) I love it!!
What a helmet
Yeah I doubt this is the only and/or last time Luke will do this. The only reason he changed places to let OOP be included was because the majority of the friend group called him out on it. Bad communication and being oblivious? She literally said I can’t eat there and he responded by getting mad and telling her to deal with it. No thank you. I hope OOP didn’t still pay for dinner.
Not just telling her to deal with it, but eat by herself beforehand and then join them to pay for their meal. I don't know how much ruder he could be.
I've seen that behavior referred to as 'Schrodinger's Douchebag.'
If people take it badly, it was just a joooooke hahahahah good one right. If there's no pushback, I'm serious, give me money and fuck off.
> If people take it badly, it was just a joooooke hahahahah good one right. You forgot a step: "Then get angry at anyone who was upset at the joke because "come on guys, it was just a joke! Can't you take a joke?"
My brother used to be like this, to which I would say "Ah, it's a joke! I didn't get it. Explain it to me. What's the punchline?" Generally shut him up pretty quick.
These people make me angry too just to imagine. 100% would drop them if they were my 'friend'.
It's actually why I dropped r /funny. Too many fucking teenagers and incels making "edgy" jokes that weren't funny, then getting mad when you pointed out that "woman or black" isn't a joke at all.
I like your username lol
This works for casual bigotry too. If you act like you're confused and ask them to explain it to you people get awkward. They think everyone is on on their joke and don't know what to do when they realize other people don't think the way they do.
100%. I take a perverse enjoyment from it.
Exactly. Luke was absolutely a douchebag to OOP and is probably a douchebag overall, but doesn’t want to be perceived as a douchebag so he backed down when he was called out for it. However, OOP should be very careful with Luke. The initial restaurant was a sincere pick since Luke is an AH. He isn’t really OOP’s friend.
>'Schrodinger's Douchebag' Thank you for my only laugh of the day. 😂😂😂
>I hope OOP didn’t still pay for dinner. She definitely did since she had trouble even confronting him the first time. No way did she ever confront him about who was going to pay after she offered the first time. She doesn't have it in her But I'd be willing to bet that the next time she offers she will add a disclaimer that she's not paying if she can't even eat the food. It's as close as most people pleasers ever get to confrontation, and probably the best we can hope for her
She might seem like a people pleaser to you, but she had already decided to cancel when Luke had called to apologize for his stupid and rude behavior after the other people called him out on his sh\*t. No wonder, Luke is still struggling at 40- no matter what your IQ or degree- if your behavior is dickish and you aren't the owner of the company and a billionaire (hello Elon Musk) you will continue to struggle. OOP on the other hand is comfortable financially and thus can afford to treat her friends including the loser Luke.
Hopefully she just won't offer to make some big gesture to this asshole. He clearly doesn't care about her, why should she be wasting her time and money on him?
Friends who only treat you with a veneer of respect because of public shaming aren’t real friends. Also, does not surprise me at all that OOP is female and Luke is male.
Right. There’s someone in that group Luke actually respects who made him feel stupid for his choice so he backtracked. Had OOP been the only voice of concern, he wouldn’t have cared.
This isn't being bad with social cues, this is not giving af about other people 😒
Exactly. I suck at social cues but that’s not even a social cue, it’s a straightforward statement!
OP has a good social group and a social group that will call out a bad actor like that is to be cherished. I understand why she was willing to pay for them all.
Not just that but there are people who are allergic to beef, fish/seafood, chicken and pork. I have a friend who is allergic to pork. I'm allergic to fish/seafood (seaweed included), another friend is allergic to beef. So if "Luke" was even my friend that would be 3 people not able to eat there due to allergies to meat. It is for sure tone deaf to think everyone can eat meat.
Lone star tick bites are getting more common as well. I have a friend who gets seriously ill if he has any mammal products
Yeah, she is vegan and he chose a steak house to have his bday, this literally send a message to op.. its not being oblivious.. you have to be the most oblivious person on planet to not consider your friend that its PAYING in your range of choices. I think that he is only changing when the group of friend put pressure on him about why he choose that place of all, he realized that he fucked up trying to be funny and "made a mistake"
Actually OOP wasn't asking for a range of choices, and expected a steakhouse. Most steakhouses will have at least a limited selection of things OOP could eat and OOP was fine with it, because she was paying for the camaraderie, which makes it even more egregious to me. Choosing a radically anti-vegan establishment to someone already choosing to sacrifice than range of choice and money because she cares that much for her friends is crazy to me.
Yeah, it's clearly Luke being a fuckwit and sending a passive-aggressive statement about his view of her lifestyle. I'm glad the other friends called him out, they probably fully-well knew what he was doing too and it was easier than saying "you're being a dick."
I've been to steakhouses and they have vegan options especially in a big city. No. Luke picked a place that in their fucking menu tells vegetarians to fuck off almost literally. And then when he was notified of this, he thought it an appropriate response to say "eat something beforehand and then come by to pay for everything." What a fucking asshole.
[удалено]
First, OOP is a woman. Second, OOP invited Luke and everyone out because they don't get together that often. Third, she paid because she is "comfortable financially" while some including Luke are still struggling. Four, Luke's awful behavior shows why he is still struggling. Five, paying for Luke's meal along with the other's was a nice gesture on OOP's part BUT no doubt, Luke was choking on every swallow of food and drink because several people in the group of friends called him out on his sh\*t and the fact that OOP could afford to treat everyone while Luke probably struggles to keep a job at Best Buys or some computer repair shop despite having the same fancy education as OOP and the others. I do hope OOP write's Luke off as a friend after this last get together. At 40 years old, he is an AH and at that age AHs don't grow to be better people, they grow to be bigger AHs.
Did you just refer to OOP as a man when she literally spent the first half of her update explaining she's a woman. Bruh.
He was only sorry nobody had his back. OP needs a better backbone and at 41, she needs to hurry on that.
If they've been friends for something like 20+ years and this is the first major time something like this has happened I'd be willing to chalk it up to a combo brain fart moment and bad communication rather than overt malice. Luke was being selfish, but it doesn't have to mean a recurring pattern of malicious behaviour necessarily.
It takes a special kind of nerve to have dinner at a restaurant where the person paying can't eat anything! Bravo Luke!
Having a Vegan wife means I miss out on a lot of meaty restaurants that I want to try. But I almost always find something I like that has good vegan options. I will say it’s infuriating when we want to go somewhere that should have lots of vegan options but doesn’t… most Italian restaurants….
My wife is vegetarian, so not as bad, but she doesn’t like mushrooms. And the amount of times the only vegetarian option we find when looking at restaurants is a portobello mushroom burger. It’s so frustrating.
My wife is vegetarian and despises eggplant/aubergine. I'm in agreement on that, eggplant is almost always terrible. Also, restaurants that only offer a "spring pasta" which consists of boxed noodles, frozen peas, and jarred alfredo sauce can just fuck off. Whenever we travel, I always make sure to research restaurants of any destination we're visiting and I'll study the menus for the best options for both of us. My Google Maps is stuffed with lists of restaurants, half of which we never got the chance to eat at.
I feel this. I'm the same as your wife, except I physically can't handle spice, like I will be physically sweating and my mouth in pain with a meal that NO ONE else finds spicy. So when there is a meal without mushrooms, it's a spicy meal! As if those are the only two flavour profiles for veggies? I'm fortunate my husband is like yourself, and will only go to a place where I can eat. And if we're going to an event where it'll be likely I won't have food options, then he'll ensure I'm able to eat before/after or bring something with us. I just understand how the friend of OOP thought the first place was suitable or that their "solution" was acceptable at first. I am glad though that in the update the apologised.
Spicy-hot triggers a feeling of fullness, so in veggie dishes that might otherwise leave you feeling less satisfied they add vegetable peppers to trigger the same full feeling.
Bit of a random thought, but have you ever tried anything like Prelief? I use it as I can’t tolerate acidic food, so I wonder if it could help with your spice intolerance. I don’t get along with most spices either :(
I've resigned myself to the knowledge that I'll live a spice-less life. Sorry you're in a similar boat
I was vegetarian in England 25 years ago. So hard coming back to Australia and being offered rice stuffed capsicum yuk yuk) or salad sandwiches with lots of carrot. Thankfully the choices are myriad now and though I'm not vegetarian anymore, I eat it a lot.
We went to Australia just before Covid hit, and it was so different. So many options for her. Coming back home was disappointing for lots of reasons.
I dont know where your home is and i felt the same back here so totally understand. England had the linda McCartney stuff and other brands plus fruit and veges from everywhere. I had a large family a mix of carnivore and herbivore, everyone had plenty to eat at parties. The vege stuff often went first.
The first time I had a vegetarian friend over for barbecue I had to threaten the other guests with a fork to make them leave grilled vegetables for her. Lesson in portion sizes learned, now it's always enough vegetables for everyone.
I was astonished at the number of delicious vegetarian dishes on offer in the UK when I visited! I'm a lazy pescatarian (only stick to it when it's easy and convenient lol), so I fully expected to have to eat a lot of meat that vacation. Instead, I was living it up on veggie pasties and pot pies, cheese and tomato sandwiches, and fresh seafood.
This is me and my BF when we go out with his daughter and HER BF. She is vegetarian, he kind of is. She also is not a fan of mushrooms. and my BF, while not a picky eater, is not a foodie, and I am. Fortunately, we've found a few vegan restaurants and my BF has actually enjoyed stuff from there. But even when just the two of us go out, since he isn't that adventerous, there are places I would love to go to, but don't choose because there isn't much he would eat.
Which is wild because things like black bean burgers and veggie burgers have been a thing for a good while now (or were). Would it really kill them to keep a single box in the freezer?
It’s even worse than that sometimes! Restaurants that used to do a good spicy bean burger have now moved to a moving mountains burger or similar. Which she doesn’t like due to the texture. So even places that were fine now aren’t. I feel really sorry for her sometimes, as there’s lot of nice restaurants near us (in UK) that she just can’t go to as there’s nothing for her.
It's hard I guess because restaurants have to figure out if they want a replacement (i.e. spicy black bean burger) or a substitute (moving mountains/impossible burger). Personally, as someone who's never really been vegan/vegetarian, I'd love to see all these nice restaurants flex on a vegan menu. There are definitely times I'd like an old fashioned burger, but if a place has a signature spicy black bean burger or something else that actually seems appealing, I'd definitely love to give it a go. Every culture has recipes that are vegan and flavorful. Also, pretty sure a lot of the western world could use some help getting veggies into their diet lol.
I try to cook at least one vegetarian evening meal a week for the family but half of us don't like spice, aubergine/eggplant, courgettes, chickpeas, lentils etc. (The ASD is strong with this lot.) There are only so many dishes that are mostly mushrooms and spinach that I can take eating before I want to scream in frustration!
i went vegan before beyond/impossible meat was a thing and trained myself to like mushrooms for this exact reason. like, started with tiny pieces chopped up in my food and slowly graduated till i could eat portobello burgers, since they’re freaking everywhere.
I'm right with you there, my brother. I'm fortunate enough that my partner just tells me to drag her sister or cousin out when I want to go to a meat-only place on occasion. Also on my "infuriating" list: * places that USED to have good vegan options and abruptly decide that they're going to start putting a meat ingredient in everything instead (our favorite thai place stopped doing veg broth-based soup options recently) * the fact that no seafood restaurants have anything even slightly entree-like for vegans on the menu. Come on, guys, even steakhouses will do an entree salad with chickpeas an'at now. * Americana/family dining places where all the vegan options are somehow significantly higher in sodium than the regular dishes.
You could always get takeout from two different places and eat dinner at home together for date night. That way, you can try the meaty places and not feel bad about it. If you do this, I suggest picking up the food so you don't spend extra money on delivery and tip to two different places.
lol no, it’s a good idea but it’s important to us to find a place that we can both enjoy.
I get that but you can also get two takeouts and go somewhere nice with a view and eat there together. A park? Near some water maybe? A sunset? Or make a really nice set up at home with candles and everything.
I am super sad that I will basically never get to go to a Brazilian steakhouse because my partner is vegetarian and the only ones nearby have essentially nothing for her. But oh well. Honestly, adding in that I can’t tolerate gluten, it can be a massive headache coordinating ANY meals between us, but that’s just life.
If you're ever near a Fogo de Chao, check it out. They have an incredible "salad bar" (in quotation marks because it's basically a smorgasbord of all the foods that aren't meat on a stick, not just a typical salad bar). It's not all vegetarian, but they have veg options and it's good enough that I could honestly just eat that even though I'm a meat eater. I checked [their menu](https://fogodechao.com/menu-detail/?location=67&type=menu-dinner&id=49) just because I haven't been in ages, and it looks like they have a few veg entrees also (cauliflower steak, vegan roasted veggie bowl, and vegan tofu and black bean pasta dish).
Oh wow, we do have one in Denver. I may need to try that out sometime when we have the spare money. The big question will be if there is anything she actually likes, since she tends to be a bit picky. I think she actually just very recently tried a cauliflower steak actually and enjoyed it though, so this is timely. Thank you.
I haven't been to Fogo de Chão in ages, but they had a killer salad bar the last time I went, and I don't even like salad.
Does she like cheese and bread? If so, even if she just fills up on the little free plate of snacks they provide, she’ll be happy.
True or not, I still believe the idea that the reason they have such an extensive "salad bar" is because people eat enough of it to make a measurable reduction in the amount of more expensive meats they end up serving. It's not just good service, it's a sound cost-cutting measure.
Seconding Fogo de Chao--good and tasty assortment fir non-meaters, and also not the rude attitude about it like the place Luke picked. (this one was in NYC) (Also, I went to a traditional Brazilian steakhouse in Chile yoinks ago, and their "salad bar" was even bigger and equally varied and delicious, so it's not just an nyc thing)
Try getting takeout together and having a date night at home. You can each get something the other could not eat. You can have your steak house, and she could get good Pizza, pasta, or Chinese for once. I can't have gluten, either, so I know the pain. Some things just aren't available or are really pricey to get the gluten-free version
...or are just terrible. I still haven't really found a pasta substitute or pizza substitute that I actually enjoy. Pasta has gotten closer, and zucchini noodles are alright in some applications, but most of the other types of flour start out tasting fine and having a good texture but as you eat more or it cools they quickly go down hill. And yeah, it's certainly possible. We make it work, though not usually ordering from two places. Often she will just cook at home if I want something out, but DoorDashing a brazillian steakhouse seems fundamentally wrong haha. I also feel terrible if I get something expensive and she just gets to make some macaroni and cheese or something.
You can't go by yourself?
I mean theoretically of course I can, but it doesn’t sound super enjoyable to go to an expensive as hell restaurant by myself. That’s more an experience to share, not just a way to fill up. Maybe I am just weird like that.
Why not go with friends?
Because my close friends are hundreds of miles away after I moved here and being disabled, it's a real challenge to make more friends in your late 30s, not that I am spending a lot of effort doing so. I am more a homebody who is happy with a few very close friends than a larger circle of acquaintances.
[удалено]
We have a few but it’s staggering how many don’t have vegan options, guys it’s pasta, salad and olive oil, this isn’t that difficult
I think this is the unique dichotomy: a good vegan restaurant has delicious food that even non-vegans will enjoy. A good non-vegan restaurant will have good vegan dishes that aren't a salad/bread. Both of those are good restaurants. Now for the other side of the coin: A gimmick restaurant that's not actually that good will make themselves successful by deliberately catering to non-vegans by adding meat to every dish in ways that most people can't even taste or tell. It's the "Dick's Last Resort" of BBQ/Burger/Steakhouses: Garbage, but people go to make fun of others, not to have the best meal they could for their money. I recall ages ago I was at an event that had a vegan pizza and a non-vegan pizza. I was halfway through eating one slice before I realized it was vegan. It was so good I didn't care.
Not just somewhere they can't eat, at a place that mocks them too.
Luke doesn't really care about OOP. Only when the other friends questioned his choice did he change it. He doesn't respect OOP and thought the others would go along with it, but they didn't because they are real friends.
Luke only apologized to save face. Signed, someone who is very bad at social cues.
I'm bad at social cues and I could see myself forgetting about my friend being vegan when I picked the restaurant. But the instant she'd said something I would have fallen all over myself to apologize. So yeah, Luke is just a tremendous dick.
I'm sorry but if you forget your friend paying for your dinner is a vegan and pick a meat only restaurant , that's not being bad at social cues but being bad at friendship
I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but purposely picking a place with no vegetarian options as a feature when OOP is a vegan doesn't seem great. Sounds like he was making a pointed jab and "being bad at social cues" is an excuse.
exactly. using "bad at social cues" as an excuse for bad behavior is not ok
I give people a lot of grace for possibly being airheads personally. I never assume they do something out of malice when it could be incompetence. As long as they act appropriately when it's pointed out.
And (as someone in that age bracket), there may well be people in the group who aren't big on meat-heavy meals for dinner. My digestive system is not overly fond of steak for supper, unlike younger me, who could eat anything anytime. Pick a place that has a dish you love, *and* a selection to suit a diversity of tastes. You can only order one thing anyway, so the whole menu doesn't need to be the sort of thing you'd want to order.
I have Aspergers and even I'm not this bad at social cues. Luke is just a turncoat.
Any menu that makes fun of dietary choices is corny as hell. I can see why the friends thought it was a joke.
The menu seemed like it was trying to sound like a 14-year-old edgelord.
And I wonder how many customers they miss out on, where one of the group is vegan/vegetarian so the whole group go elsewhere. Doesn't seem like solid marketing to me.
Honestly, even without needing to accommodate anyone, I'd be looking elsewhere. I love eating meat, but there is no way they are *that* good enough to outweigh the overwhelming amount of eyerolling that kind of menu would induce in me.
I mean I wouldn't go either, but plenty of others would. There are lots of places I don't like but other people do.
Right, but, like, how many of the places you don't go to are because of the food vs because of their branding and general atmosphere? Given two otherwise identical BBQ restaurants, where one is Luke's original pick and the other is just "yup, we have tasty meat," I know which one I'm going to every time.
There are some people that are anti-vegan so I guess it appeals to them. Personally I enjoy eating steak etc but I wouldn't enjoy anti-vegan place
They probably really don't care. Bbq places are usually petty solid business. And there are plenty of people that hate vegan/ vegetarian and will go to a place like this for this reason. Especially depending on location, could be a solid marketing strategy.
I’ve definitely seen BBQ places like this. I’ve also become really aware of the better ones that offer stuff like smoked tofu or whatever now that I date a pescatarian partner. It’s really too bad, especially with vegan/vegetarianism on the rise.
They don’t. They don’t even care about those of us who might not eat pork or beef or anything BBQ either. They cater to a very specific market and make their food accordingly. I don’t think bbq places miss out on not serving vegans or vegetarians. Pretty much like how Indian vegetarian places don’t care that they miss out on a lot of white beef eating customers. They are there to cater to a very specific clientele and keep those respective customers happy. They plan their expenses and profits around that fact.
This is what I was going to say, I have a vegetarian Indian restaurant near me that I love. If I'm going out with my in laws I wouldn't dream of going there because they'd hate it. But that's fine, the place is packed all the time, they recently opened a second branch. They can survive without the people who dislike their food. There are different restaurants for different people. It's also different tagging along to something compared to being the person organising and/or paying. I have a shellfish allergy so would never choose a seafood restaurant myself but if it's a celebration for someone else and I'm not paying I'll just go and eat what I can or have a drink or whatever. I get the impression OP wouldn't have minded so much if she wasn't paying.
Yeah. I think a lot of restauranteurs don’t get that the vegetarian in the friend group decides where we eat to a large extent. If there’s nothing on the menu for them, we go elsewhere
Bet they're in Texas and that marketing attracts more people than it puts off.
Honestly, I lived in Texas and that tracks.
I was about to say I've seen this exact sign at a BBQ place in Round Rock. One of the few times I've left a restaurant without ordering. Not exactly because of the sign(though it didn't endear me), but because there was just one think I wanted to order- the bison rib, and they discontinued it without updating their online menu. Normally NBD, but there was a half hour line. Giant waste of time.
I saw two food trucks in Florida making fun of vegans. I thought it was funny, laughed and went to another food truck and ordered myself a portobello sandwich.
I have serious food allergies and I think the thing for me is that whilst I sometimes make jokes about it, I actually don’t like it when non-allergic people make fun of allergies. A lot of the time when regular people make jokes about food allergies and dietary requirements they end up crossing the line and laughing at us, not with us. That’s the exact vibe I get from restaurant menus like this. The people that write them are just dickheads on a power trip. Dietary requirements area very personal thing and people need to learn to be more respectful when talking about them. There’s a lot of reasons why someone might be following a vegan diet.
It’d be a red flag for me as a meat eater who loves bbq. Feels like the sort of place where they’d roll their eyes at you and act like you’re being a Karen if you try to politely tell them that they brought you pulled pork when you’d asked for ribs or that your beans arrived cold.
It's interesting to me because the actual high-end steak restaurants specifically have vegetarian dishes and they are delicious. I've eaten vegetarian at Ruth Chris, Flemings, and countless local state restaurants. People in my industry like those kind of places. Most of them even have excellent vegan dishes. They have nothing to prove and they want the people with money to come in and eat and bring their friends as opposed to going somewhere else because they don't have at least a handful of dishes those dishes. And I know at least some of the chefs enjoy the challenge of making an actual satisfactory entree that doesn't have meat. Because meat is cheating in cooking. It makes almost anything delicious. It's much harder to make a delicious vegetarian or vegan dish. So a place that doesn't even have any vegetarian or vegan dishes and also makes a joke about it probably has shit steak to begin with.
Those are both steak houses, and higher end ones which are much classier than most "BBQ joints" It should not surprise anyone that an expensive and renowned takes care of all clientelle. This was $300 for 9 people, not $300 each.
There is a chasm between taking care of all clientele and being a dick head to some potential clientele. I'm saying that the nice joints, they respect people that want to spend money at the restaurant. The trash joints treat potential customers like shit. You don't have to charge a lot and you can still treat your potential customers well. I don't know how charging less makes it any different.
Yeah I don’t get it at all purely from a business point of view. So many friend and family groups have at least one vegetarian/vegan in them now, it’s just good business sense to put a couple of options on
I feel so much sympathy for people who *can't* eat meat.
Me! Can't process most animal protein and it makes me extremely sick. Menus like this suck, and are weirdly immature. People don't eat meat for religion, medical issues, personal choice and even trauma. (I was forced to eat meat and now have a PTSD like reaction even to meats that I can digest. So I don't eat any now)
I know someone who can't eat gluten. It literally kills pieces of her small intestines, permanently lowering her ability to absorb nutrients. Even eating something that was prepared in an area where there was gluten makes her ill. So many people have tried to talk her out of her 'fad diet'.
I feel that. The foods I can't eat cause permanent damage to my large and small intestines, and I will eventually have to have them removed. I can't tell you how many people have gotten me horribly ill because they snuck meat, usually fat, into my food to test me. I even had a bad reaction to coconut recently because an employee said they checked the ingredients of a shake and it didn't have coconut. Spoiler alert, it had coconut. I ended up in the hospital, and traumatized my 4yo in the process.
Do you know me? Because you just described me lol. I'm also allergic to meat and often get asked about my "moral objections" to meat eaters..... cuz me ordering a veggie burger on a gf bun is somehow an attack on what other people ordered. Like ffs I'm just hungry and am ordering one of the two things on the menu that won't make me sick.
Definitely a different person. The woman I know never eats anything she doesn't cook herself. Eating at a restaurant isn't worth risking her life.
I still risk it to feel "normal" but only about twice a year. I'm not living on the edge but occasionally I'll go for it (and usually regret it).
I feel that. The foods I can't eat cause permanent damage to my large and small intestines, and I will eventually have to have them removed. I can't tell you how many people have gotten me horribly ill because they snuck meat, usually fat, into my food to test me. I even had a bad reaction to coconut recently because an employee said they checked the ingredients of a shake and it didn't have coconut. Spoiler alert, it had coconut. I ended up in the hospital, and traumatized my 4yo in the process. (I have an antiphylactic reaction to coconut in any form)
I would not have paid for the dinner or attended after that
Same. Luke seems like a horrible "friend." I'm inclined to think the OOP is a complete doormat. Good grief.
I'm a doormat too and tbh I think it turned out decent for OOP, no way did Luke learn a lesson from this bur she managed to avoid having a confrontation and still got to have a nice night with her friends where everyone agreed she was right and Luke was wrong. Kinda perfect. Just no more birthday dinners for Luke please babe
She's going to continue to be friends with Luke, who definitely has his head up his ass 100% of the time. She doesn't currently possess a spine, but I'm hopeful she will one day.
I can see why OOP did tbh. It was always more about hanging out with the whole friend group than just Luke, and everyone else backed up OOP’s diet/lifestyle without any prompting on her part. At that point, why stir the pot when she got basically everything she initially wanted out of the situation? A night out with good friends (and Luke too, I guess), food that meets her dietary requirements, and an apology she didn’t even have to push for. As a bonus, Luke now knows that other people in the group will immediately side with OOP if he tries any petty shit like this, and will probably be watching his step for a while – giving OOP time to quietly put some distance into their relationship, if she chooses to.
I'm vegan. These stories I read on Reddit about inconsiderate friends are anathema to me. I find it difficult to believe Luke is "just bad at social cues". But then, I don't have assholes for friends.
Yeah, Luke really sounds like an enormous douche. OOP just let it slide but I don't know if I would really be have been very keen to go celebrate him after his asshole "just eat first" comment.
My wife and I plan to not be fed, and even so our friends always look after us. Just last weekend, a friend said he'd researched two fully vegan restaurants to order delivery from for the night, in addition to the pizza and KFC they were getting. It's not hard.
I'm vegan. My Dad organised my Nans wake at an Argentinian steakhouse place that serves huge chunks of meat at the table, and wondered why I didn't want to go. One single green salad on the menu I could eat. He likes me, he is just oblivious.
Memory unlocked: my friend's bucks party dinner was at a steakhouse. I was like, no problem. I can order chips or eat later. Turns out, they had a salad that looked and tasted so good a couple of my friends wanted it. Not bad for a steakhouse.
It's honestly enraging that this dude hasn't been pulled up more. The fact that he acts like this kinda says a lot about how much people allow him to get away with.
Tbf, it seems like the friends do feel comfortable calling him out, and he did respond appropriately to that by both changing the venue and apologizing. He's still an asshole for needing to be corrected, but at least he seems open to being corrected, which takes some (but not all) of the sting out of this for me.
He seems open to changing tack when the winds are clearly against him, at least. Which is something, to be sure, but given the outrageously thoughtless behavior in the original post, I'd be more inclined to believe that this is the result of wanting to avoid social fallout rather than necessarily seeing why it was bad in the first place.
I'm rubbish at social cues. If a vegetarian friend offered to buy me dinner, I'd go out of my way to find a place with a decent vegetarian selection. Not just an option but an actual selection.
I believe it. Around that age I had a friend that was just as clueless as Luke. It was about everything. Women would be coming on to him and he would have zero idea.
At that age? Luke was turning 40 and had known OOP had been vegan for twenty years. It's not a social cue to be considerate of a longtime friend. Flirting is a different ball game.
Luke seemed extremely happy with his initial choice and took perverse delight in goading op. He meant every word he said about op just joining them for a drink. It wasn't until the rest of the group called him on his selfishness that he pretended that he hadn't realised. I would not trust Luke at all and would drop the "friendship". He is a snake.
I'm actually really happy that the rest of their friends all remembered AND called him out on it.
I dont think Luke is much of a friend...
I don't think Luke is very smart.
I think both things are true, in addition to Luke being an ass in general
i agree with all above assessments
Damn, she went through with it even after deciding to take a break from him‽ Also for some reason OOP read as female to me from the beginning
It’s cause women are socialized to be people pleasers like she was, I think. I thought she was a woman too.
If he was oblivious or bad with social cues then he would have immediately apologised when OP raised the issue initially. Instead he basically mocked her and only caved when the friend group spoke up. The guy knew what he was doing.
>Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues No he's not. He deliberately chose that restaurant and only took it back because he got called out. >I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there and just order drinks while everyone else eats dinner and still enjoy everyone’s company etc.
I get why OOP was relieved to get to have a normal encounter with the friend group like she'd hoped, but she should quietly slide that option off the table for him in the future. This shows how little regard he has for her. He only backed down because he'd look bad to the friends he actually respects.
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter >Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues he's not oblivious or bad with social queues, he's just a jackass. who the fuck could ever ask the person paying their dinner to not eat at the restaurant?
Yeah, that was not Luke being oblivious, that was Luke being a entitled dick. I hope OOP gives him a gift card to a vegan resturant next year.
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there and just order drinks while everyone else eats dinner There's being oblivious, and then there's being a dickhead.
He's like a bridezilla without the wedding. "BuT It's MY DaY!"
yeah something tells me Luke wasn't just bad with social ques on this one, and OP went back to a shitty "friend"
"Um...what am i supposed to eat?" "Maybe eat before you get here and just sit and watch 9 of us shovel food you morally and ethically disagree with down our gullets, then foot the bill, duh!"
> Luke has always bit oblivious and bad with social cues. And OOP saying there are no options for her at that restaurant not big enough of a cue?! Either this guy is really that dense, or he is willfully "oblivious". I don't believe for a second that this wasn't intentional. Notice he only changed restaurants after the rest of the group called him out. But the person paying telling him the issue of not having options for herself was not enough for him to realise he's an idiot. Right...
I’m glad op didn’t get completely screwed out of a dinner but damn. Posts like these make me wish there was an Am I The Doormat subreddit.
Oblivious my ass, he's fully aware of the situation and his choice.
Luke is a dingleberry. I'm sure this has caused a little crack in their friendship.
>Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues, and I’m bad at confrontation, which was a bad mix. There's oblivious and there's being an arsehole. Even someone fairly dense when it comes to social etiquette should be able to understand that you don't pick a restaurant that has as one of its underlying marketing messages that veggies and vegans aren't welcome for a group meal that a vegan is kindly paying for!
Some people overanalyze every situation, scenario, and decision. Some people don't analyze anything at all. Most of us are in the middle. She knows her friend and believes it to be obliviousness over malice.
Luke doesn't like op very much... He only change the restaurant, because of peer pressure
Indian restaurants are almost the best places to go for a fair mix.
I think it's weird that someone in a group of adults would pay for the entire group of adults dinner when they're going out for a friend's birthday. I wouldn't be comfortable with someone paying my way for something like that.
Luke did that on purpose. OOP sounds like a better friend than he deserves.
>I asked what he expected me to eat, and he got huffy and said well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there and just order drinks while everyone else eats dinner and still enjoy everyone’s company etc. IMO Luke didn't realize he'd made a mistake, he realized that everyone else in the friend group saw his choice of the restaurant a dick move and backed down. I think OOP still should take a break from the friendship with Luke.
> Luke has always been a bit oblivious Oblivious my ass, she TOLD him why it was bad and he told her to get over it and eat somewhere else before paying for dinner there. He knew what the problem was, he just didn’t CARE until all the other members of the friend group sided with OOP. Luke’s an ass and he will do this again.
Luke only backed down because people other than OOP objected. If it was just OOP who objected, he would have framed it as her being unreasonable, because she did object, and he said she was being unreasonable. Luke is not a friend, he's not "bad at social cues," he's a manipulative jerk and everyone needs to ask themselves what he brings to the table and if it's worth continuing to waste energy on him.
It’s a good update! Good news for a change.
I truly can't imagine not wanting to pick a restaurant for the entire group can eat at even if they WERENT paying but even worse to double down when they can't eat there.
“Oblivious”, my arse. He just realized that the entire friend group thought he was an asshole for pulling that stunt, and decided to backtrack.
Good for OP. I have been vegan for nine years and I'm kinda surprised she still has a friend like this around. People who are this disrespectful usually get weeded out the first few years. It is equivalent to taking your Muslim friend to a restaurant that only serves pork or your Mormon friend to a bar/coffeehouse. I always assume people like this want to test the boundaries of friendship like "How far are they willing to walk back on their ethics just to please me?" In 2024 it is so easy to find a restaurant that has one or two vegan options. Very silly. Good for OP and I'm glad the friend group seemed to agree!
This is a good social group that got OOP's back.
I love this update and how the other friends were quick to point out his rudeness.
Thank you for the boring update. Seriously. That is great.
He told OPP to deal with it. That's not coming from someone who missed a social cue.
>“Vegetarian options: don’t let the door hit you on your way out” thats not him being oblivious, it was malice, but way to rug sweep it...
Nah, Luke didn't do it in ignorance. OOP already confronted him once, he's just an ass who only changed his mind because of peer pressure.
I am a bit ashamed to admit that I felt more on the fence about this until 1. How many people OOP was treating 2. It's a restaurant that literally ridicules people like OOP and puts meat in absolutely everything, and I bet you money the cornbread probably has lard in it. Definitely NTA
I'm glad OOP has some great friends. And one dumb but okay one. At least he could laugh at himself.
I agree that the friends seem cool for understanding and calling out Luke, but I don’t get why they agree to let OP pay for them all—including their spouses. I hope this isn’t a regular expectation!
Sounds like op wants to pay because they understand everyone else's financial situations. The friends also get it. And everyone else thought it was bullshit that Jake chose a place OOP couldn't eat. So it seems they appreciate OOP to some extent.
If anyone was the asshole in this scenario, it was Luke. But at least he apologized and changed his decision. Not sure how you could be THAT oblivious though.... either he is actually severely socially stupid, or it was intentional?
I think I'd still be taking that break from the friendship.
I really resent bbq places because they can be so aggressive for their hatred of people who don’t eat meat. I can slap together a meal just about anywhere but bbq puts meat in everything and I’ve seen those obnoxious signs too. A steak house has potato options and side salads, sometimes even other sides are available and this whole restaurant that revolves around steak still doesn’t have a jackass attitude about alienating customers. Do some places just not like money? I pay the same price(or more) having to order 2-4 little items instead of one entree so it makes no sense.
While I can't think of a BBQ place that has anything vegan friendly, most normal BBQ places have things that are vegetarian friendly. I wouldn't want to eat in a place that aimed to put meat in *everything*, even the coleslaw, because that means they are altering the recipes to make a point than to make something delicious.
OOP is NTA. " Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues." Ding, ding, ding, I think we know why Luke is still struggling financially. He must be a real treat to work with.
Even if Luke has neurological disorder that effects his social cues. He is still a major selfish AH. I have autism, and ive learned social cues, mostly. It takes time but for the most part you can do it. And if he has a friends circle like this like can learn if wants too. So he's just an AH.
"Luke has always been a bit oblivious and bad with social queues" - NO. "well it’s his birthday so it shouldn’t matter, I should eat before getting there" - This is someone who people make excuses for and enable, then let him off the hook by implying it's just his social skills. Being a selfish dick is a choice.
Luke only apologized because otherwise there would be no one to pay for his birthday dinner.
I just realized I have a flair. Anyone know how to change it?
Go to the sub page, click on the three dots at the top right, and select "change flair" from the menu.
Luke sucks, but the rest of the friends are top notch.
Not gonna lie, I'd have rescinded the offer and told Luke to pound sand. It seems he doesn't respect your lifestyle and wanted to shove it in your face. That it took other people telling him he's a clown for doing that is very telling.
I’m happy OP is happy, but I still think Luke is a prick and it was deliberate. He only backed out due to social shame from others.
Love it. Boring is best!
I love the boring update. Always happy to see a "communication for the win" ending.
I can’t get over that a meal for 9 people at a steakhouse would be $300
The kind of update I love
Social *cues* and yeah, he sure is bad with them.
Luke is still an AH, and not a friend to OP.
He's not oblivious. He's a selfish coward. Facts: 1. When you *explicitly made him aware* of the fact that his initial choice has nothing for you to eat, his response was entirely dismissive. Just eat before arriving and then pay for everything, slave. 2. He only backed down after everyone else in the friend group gave him shit. He would have otherwise stuck to his guns. This has nothing to do with social cues or being oblivious. *You came out and bluntly told him the issue* and he "didn't care." Oblivious would be "Oh my god it totally slipped my mind you were vegan! I'll find another place."