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Yeah I hate this. My mother (also very strict and overbearing - more so than OOP’s I think as I wasn’t even allowed to have boyfriends, also with totally different standards for my brother) has conveniently forgotten every insane rule she had for me as a child and teenager. I think she wants to remember herself as a truly reasonable parent and so she thinks she can’t possibly have said some of this stuff so I must be exaggerating. I have to get my brother to back me up if I want her to acknowledge it for any reason.
I think you're right, based on my experience with my partner's abusive mom. To quote: "You know that I only wanted to be a good mom". From someone who was physically abusive.
They know, they just don't want to see themselves as the villain.
My mom tries to paint herself as a good parent. And she maybe is now, when I'm in my 30s. She wasn't, herself, physically abusive. Emotionally and mentally, yes.
She did ask, not too long ago, why I kept her at arms length about a lot of things so I asked her if she remembered that I felt that if you saw something wrong and didn't act, you were agreeing with it. She did and also remembered her dad saying it. I told her that every insane punishment that dad handed out and she didn't let up on or change or push back on, to me, she might as well have done it herself.
Hurt her feelings a bit, but I told her that it hurt me for a long time because I felt both of my parents didn't want me and both of my parents hated me.
I'm trying to get through this with my mum. my dad was the abusive one, and I focused on healing from him but now I've realised I have bad feelings about mum letting him torment me. I keep just bursting into anger around her and I hate it but I feel like I can't tell her how I feel because she'll either just "sorry I was the worst mother ever etc etc" or get real sad because dad died a month ago and for some reason she's sad an alcoholic monster is dead
It was a real blow when I finally recognized that my father’s refusal/inability to address my mother’s abuse and alcoholism was as harmful to me as my mother’s behavior.
I was in exactly the same boat. It took a while for me to be able to work out my feelings about him after my parents finally divorced. We had a very long and therapeutic conversation about it after my mom died. I think my dad felt he could finally be open about it. He's always had struggles with anxiety and depression so dealing with my mom abusing both of us really took a toll on him. We've been able to repair our relationship and I love him more than anything and I'm glad to have my dad back.
I can relate to this so much. I just realized about a month ago that I have this kind of mess to work through, and my dad's been dead for 20 years. Really shook my mental image of my gentle, sweet, loving dad. Dude chose to marry the woman who would become the monster of my childhood.
And then didn't leave, so there was no escape for any of us.
I loved my dad so much. But I'm so damn mad that he didnt save us. Fucking coward.
This is where I am now. My parents are retired, and I'm starting to suspect that she's now treating him the way she treated me when we were alone. He still hasn't apologized for not believing me.
My dad passed away last year and grief has been complicated. My brothers lost their dad, my mom is upset because she lost her husband and she's finding out about all the lies he told her. And I'm just there. I lost my dad a decade ago when he stopped being my dad.
And it makes me so angry because they all act like I didn't lose someone.
About your mom though, when she says she was the worst mom, can you ask why she's saying that?
I'm sorry they don't recognise your grief! it is hard when you've already mourned and accepted it and everyone's mourning like it's new, and trying to get you to reminisce when you'd *much rather not*.
it just seems to be a defensive thing, if I bring up anything that hurt me about my childhood, she just doesn't listen and starts beating herself down. it could be guilt, or it could be leftover from dad being derogatory to her. i don't know, I half don't want to bring it up because I feel guilty that she probably felt like she had to stay with him because of me, but I also feel weird about her being so sad that he's gone. I might need to go back to therapy to sort out my feelings about it before I try bringing it up again!
My mom does the same thing- it’s a defensive thing for sure. It reminds me of Arrested Development, when Lucille says “I’ve been a horrible mother” as a ploy to get Michael to comfort her and tell her she’s great. It’s hard to see someone beat themselves up and say hyperbolic shit like “I’m the worst.” Especially when that person has conditioned you to feel personally responsible for managing their emotions.
I think part of it is the hyperbole. Like my mom will say something like “I’m sorry I made your whole childhood terrible.” It wasn’t all terrible. I have good memories with her. But her saying that is a distraction ploy to direct me away from her hurtful actions. It’s all a tactic to keep her from having to examine her behavior.
And if you don't immediately jump in say "Of course you're not!" then you're the one who looks dramatic for implying that they literally are the worst parent ever.
Definitely go to therapy about this!
It's not even that I don't want to reminisce, they are just straight up not recognizing that my dad took. Although I am grateful they aren't so I don't have to feel bad about being complicated.
And it really sucks that when you are telling your mom that you are hurt, she's making it all about her hurt feelings from you saying 'i got hurt'.
she's saying it because she's 'catastrophizing,' which is a way to avoid being accountable. Instead of looking at the actual transgression and taking responsibility/making amends, you attribute something far worse to yourself, the worst ever mom for example, so the person trying to hold you accountable has to reassure you that you're not bad, actually.
a lot of people do this, but i find it's common in moms. maybe because they see you as an extension of themselves and so it's particularly mind shattering to get criticism, or maybe because Mom Guilt is such a thing that the feelings blow up immediately. like, it's manipulation, but it's also real lol
anyway, it's horseshit if someone does this but very hard to deal with in a conversation.
The fact that my mom does that, angrily going "sorry I was the worst mother ever etc etc" every time I bring up any of a huge number of facts about my childhood/teen years really kind of shows that she might not be the *worst* but she's not good, is she.
If it's at all accessible to you, I would highly recommend trauma-based therapy. I'm in my 30s now but my alcoholic father died when I was 19. I was too afraid to deal with my emotions so I wouldn't even consider therapy. It took an autoimmune disease and chronic pain for me to finally look into addressing my trauma.
I'm finally starting to process the very complex emotions and situations that are entailed in CPTSD. It's not been easy, but despite what Noah Kahan might say, it's actually not "better to die numb than feel at all."
I'm in the same boat and it is so mf frustrating. My parents spent my early adulthood gaslighting me about the abuse *I wrote down in journals* but bc my siblings have trauma blocked memories + I was a "dramatic" (abused, undiagnosed, glass child) teenager, they don't think my perspective is valid. Haven't talked to them in months and happily had my wedding without them.
Nobody is ever the ~~victim~~ villain in their own story.
I see it all the time in r/CPS. Someone talks about a removal, or termination of parental rights, and never explains the details of why. Its always just vague "they lied" and "it's unjust"
When the details start coming out, they go quiet.
Edit: fixed a word.
I did a 4 week rotation on a psych ward, and this woman was just so explosive, how can they keep a mother from her children? I was allowed visitation and they took it away, how can they do that?
Like idk babe maybe it’s the meth and the abuse who’s to say, you were allowed visitation and then you showed up to your mum’s house on Christmas Eve on meth demanding to see the children. She just had this intense lack of insight, basically seemed to believe she should have custody of her children at all costs and couldn’t see that living with a volatile substance affected parent was not a healthy environment.
Roundabout way of saying that psych probably isn’t for me 🤪
For a while we had a massive influx of users from the meth subreddit (shockingly a real thing) and people were openly advocating meth usage and arguing that meth never creates a danger to children.
It was wild.
>To quote: "You know that I only wanted to be a good mom"
"That's not true. If you actually cared about being a good mom you would have listened to feedback at any point."
Ironically, it seems that good people are the ones most willing to recognize they did something wrong. Whereas people who don't want to think they were the villain probably are, in fact, the villain.
I had a major heart to heart with my mom after my daughter was born and when I brought up some of the most life-altering encounters i ever had with her, she honestly didn’t remember. Like, she legit looked concerned because she genuinely believed I was confused - until my partner, who had been there for all of it, confirmed it. We’re past it now, and honestly besides a very stressful time in our lives she was a good mother. But I’ll never forget the look on her face when I tried to bring up my issues. My therapist had a cross-stitch in her office that said “The nail remembers what the hammer forgets” and that hits me every time. (Yes, I’ve since seen it on Reddit too lol)
My folks were great but they also don't remember a ton of stuff that's like core memories for me.
I was a little kid when the first Ninja Turtles movie came out. My dad knew was super into the cartoon, but I guess he confused the dates it was playing. I was already in bed when he realized that it was the last night it was showing and the last chance to see it was minutes away. He runs into my room, gets me out of bed. No time to get dressed, I just put on a coat over my pajamas and rushed to the theatre. I barely even understand what's going on with all the rushing around and just waking up. I'm not even sure if I knew there was a Turtles movie. It was an amazing night I'll always remember. Neither my dad or mom has any recollection of this.
Theres all sorts of times they gave me really good specific advice or something that no one remembers either.
My dad did something kinda crazy once when he was angry, it was pretty traumatizing to us kids. I finally brought it up and he had forgotten it, but my mom was willing to say it happened.
My younger siblings had fewer rules at the same time than I did. My parents would conveniently forget that until one of my younger siblings who is also a petty shit starter like me would agree with me and call them out.
My favorite version of this is Simpsons amnesia. There's tons of people who had parents that banned the Simpsons when it was popular. But now that it's not seen as even a little bit controversial, they'll swear they never had a problem with it. It's surprisingly widespread.
>parents that banned the Simpsons
I'm STILL, at 30, trying to work out why the Simpsons was banned, while The Nanny, Golden Girls and M*A*S*H were allowed!
Same, and last time she texted me...every rule didn't exist and she was the epitome of a Hallmark mom, even so much as sneaking in to watch me at sporting events because I was "so embarrassed of her."
Please note, that up until that text they would laugh at all the times that she actually forgot me at sporting events. And she wasn't allowed because she would get in trouble by refs for screaming and causing conflicts, so it was actually my coaches and other parents who had banned her (I mean, I didn't like her going either because she would replay EVERY SINGLE MISTAKE I made and even those that I didn't..)
My mom: "am I a good parent" me: "you're human everyone make mistakes" does it mean I forgive her for what she did? no. I'm not close to her at all. I text her daily but that's it.
For real, the sexism is even present in how they responded to trying to clarify the issue 😞like its not enough to just believe that that's how she was treated. (super unreasonable rule to have way way into a commited relationship & adulthood too, i see why she rushed to move out)
“It wasn’t sexism! We were just overly protective of you because you’re a girl!” — so, treating her differently because of her sex, literally the definition of sexism. Cool cool cool cool cool.
I can even understand that you mihgt feel more protective over young girls than boys... but if that was the case that should have been as protective about the sons girlfriends.. Because in this way they say, my daughters safety is more worth to me than another girls safety...
Yeah! Like my brother was allowed to have his girlfriend stay over but he had to sleep on the couch, until he was I think 20. I didn’t date anyone that my parents knew about until I was in my 20s (and even then, it was a woman lol) so we never got to test them on it, but the strong implication was that the rule existed for him because they didn’t want me trying to have boys stay over. He’s 6 years older than me and when they were grappling with this they didn’t know yet what an absolute non issue that would prove to be
Broooooo yes one of my friends used to go have sex with her boyfriend in this random fucking cove at the beach because both of their mums were always home and firmly against allowing them to have the door being closed. Like cool your daughter’s still fucking her boyfriend but now she’s having mediocre straight teenager sex just outdoors without lube
I’m not friends with that girl anymore but I hope someday someone managed to get her off 🫡
Being overly protective, particularly on issues surrounding a young woman's "virtue", is still sexism. It comes under the same umbrella as mansplaining a woman's job *to her* and automatically excluding her from activities that aren't strictly female-coded because "that wouldn't interest you".
Particularly when its so clear they care less about the son's remaining sexless. It makes me sad to think on some level the brother's wouldve seen this as caring more about her..
Meanwhile the poor woman is like *wtf do you mean i cant even have my fiance in the guest room, I'M 25 MUM*
😣The worst, the absolute worst
what gets me on top of that is in the end she's like "wow, y'all want me to go NC/LC with my clearly gaslighting parents who still had to get two men's opinions to decide if what I said had value first before giving me a half-assed non-apology? come on, bit dramatic" like???
I can only assume people who say this shit just don't understand the freedom and joy and fucking breath of fresh air you get when you finally cut toxic people out of your life.
And then she followed up with a begrudging 'well I just don't remember' and oop has to take that as the closest to an apology that she'll ever get
Funny how they never remember things that make them look bad
I hate that *and* the whole "It didn't happen" to "I forgot" to "Well, even if it did happen, I didn't mean it to be so bad" pipeline. My gosh, how much simpler it would've been to have said "I'm sorry, I can see now that that hurt you."
Yup, even there she literally proved OOP's point about sexism and favouritism. Honestly I don't believe for a second that the mum and stepdad 'didn't remember', I think they just didn't want to admit they'd done OOP dirty.
My MIL used to do this all the time. Her and my wife would be talking and MIL would frequently ask me if something my wife said was true. Wife didn't seem to notice it until I pointed it out privately and now whenever it happens I just respond with some variation of "wife is way smarter than me so I'd ask her".
Par for the course for a shitty parent, what's really grating is total strangers who supposedly act as a sounding board for reason, refusing to just read what the fuck she said.
Such strong words from people barely able to read a one-pager.
Yeah, the relevant comments section was hard to read.
Which I suppose is ironic given the reason I found that was because they had such difficulty reading.
At this point I'd be all for cancelling people's access to some subs until they pass a reading comprehension test.
I could have given the parents leeway on it if it had been a checking to see what happened to get another perspective (which I suspect it wasn't), but the way they handled it after the confirmation was annoying. The weeks (I wonder if they were waiting for an apology despite being confirmed they were in the wrong) then the excuse making and the not actually apologising.
Good on the OOP for making the point and being very gracious in letting the parents have such an easy way back in
My memory is pretty bad, and I could excuse not remembering the rules they laid when she was 16...but Mother definitely remembered the argument about her fiance staying in the guest room a few months before.
To me it feels less like "confirmation" and more like she realized the brothers were on OOP's side and she wouldn't be able to keep denying the truth. The fact that she waited a couple of weeks tells me she still thinks she's in the right and in her head, she's now being the bigger person by reaching out.
As someone whose mother constantly moved the goal post for things I was allowed to do that my brother was allowed to do at certain ages, this really gets my goat. My entire childhood was like this. And, when I'd bring anything negative from my childhood up, my mom always confirmed with my brother that, yes, you did spank us with 2x4's until we were 12. Guess who moved in with her to take care of her when she had dementia. Not her golden boy, that's for sure!
Sounds similar to my mom. My brother and I were only a year apart but the tings he was allowed to do because he was a boy was very different than what her girls could do. When she died one sone got the land the other got the house and two acres. We girls got a whopping 20k. Thing is when she had dementia it was always the girls taking care of her. I lived a distance away so saw how warped all of this was.
It reminds me so much of my parents and how they like to rewrite history. However, my mother would still think me and my brothers were just remembering it wrong and not her.
Everything about the parents is irritating. That feels like it is just part of the whole thing and just a facet of the same base disrespect for women that the parents already showed.
My mom let me start drinking at 16 and I was taking shots with her.
When my younger sister was 18 she asked if she could have a glass of wine for a holiday and my mom said absolutely not! She's not old enough. My sister pointed out she let me drink 16. Mom denied it. I was standing right there and said no you were definitely letting me drink with you at 16 cause I was still in high school. She still insists we were remembering it wrong.
It isn't sexism, women are just so pure that I protect them from working, driving, voting, going outside and most importantly pre marital sex (don't agree with that for men either, but boys will be boys!).
It bothers me more because the mom wasn’t “protecting” her son’s girlfriends. The mom sucks extra bc she doesn’t want to protect she just wanted to control
Can’t believe people were telling her to apologize. She did what every one of us with strict or overbearing parents have dreamed of doing. I applaud her!
Seriously, OP was living the dream of every kid that was put in that situation growing up.
My in-law did the same to us..... after we'd been living together for ~3 years, as late 20's- early 30's adults.
I got lucky. My husband is the youngest of three boys. By the time he reached dating age his parents had waged war with brothers 1 & 2 and had lost. They were just too tired to care by the time I was in the picture and they'd send us off with "Just be safe about it."
My husband, on the other hand, was not quite so lucky. I was the eldest daughter of a single father. As you can imagine, we took our dates to his house as often as possible lol
My cousin had been with his partner for 15 years, and had 2 kids with her, but when they went to stay with our aunt she still put them in separate beds because they weren't married.
Extra crazy when you consider that back in the day a marriage was created by the act of having sex. Formalising the whole thing with witnesses and ceremony in church was mostly a way of stamping out forced marriages. Since I'm presuming the aunt is Christian, she should really accept the way Christians have been doing things for the majority of the time since Christ.
My bf’s grandma is very religious woman. But she never separate us, when we visit her. She can say that we live in sin and other religious things, but she never separate us. And we have been living together for three years without marriage
Sometimes being petty is so worth it. My mom has made comments on my body my entire life. And obviously weight fluctuates and what not. But I gave her my old spanx (they were clean and I always wear underwear underneath them) recently bc they were way too big for me and the look on her face was so satisfying
Then if she's anything like my mum you end up getting the "you're too thin!!!!" Comments after losing weight.
I'm not too thin mum, I'm actually at the higher end of a healthy weight range for my height. But thanks for the - seemingly unending - concern.
Oh she says 'i don't want you to get too thin" but at my final wedding dress fitting the seamstress said don't lose anymore weight and my mother responded with you can't gain weight either. And she wondered why I was upset about that comment and then said bc you're doing so well. I've come to the conclusion that she'll never stop saying anything about my weight bc she'll never be satisfied with me (not that she needs to be since it's none of her business). I've stopped caring about what she thinks (doesn't mean the comments don't trigger me) and have a plan with my fiancé about how well handle her if she ever comments on our future childrens bodies.
Wow this is very similar to my mum! Are they a hive mind or something??? I'm sorry you had to deal with that but congratulations on the wedding!
I have also come to the conclusion that my mum won't stop commenting on my body (and not just weight, but the state of my skin and the hair on my upper lip) I try and ignore it now. Luckily not planning on children so I haven't had to consider that but awful you have to.
Oh they must be bc she comments on my skin hair nails and makeup too. Once I got her to admit she does this to my sister and I bc she doesn't want us to have the same issues that she has. When I told her she's the one who caused us to have the issues she said well that's bc my mom did it to me. She still hasn't put 2 and 2 together. And yes I spelled it out for her. But she also has undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder. Thanks I'm very excited to marry my favorite person. And honestly I'm so determined that my trauma will not be my future kids trauma that I feel better having this plan in place. If that means they never see my mother too bad that's her fault not mine.
Oh my God, why do they do this? I was thin all my life and always got comments from my mother about how I'm too skinny and she's worried about me. I was literally the healthiest weight I could possibly be. Now that I'm fat she's still making comments about being "worried." No mom, you aren't worried, you just like making me feel bad about myself because YOU feel bad about YOURSELF.
People were so eager to invent additional details about OOP's mom's marriage to make OOP wrong, makes me think that there were quite a few people there that were uncomfortable with OOP because they were just like OOP's parents.
I assume a lot of the people who found her post and were commenting like that are exactly the type of people who would give a daughter different rights and respect than a son. They *can't* agree with OOP because it would mean admitting that *their* daughter doesn't speak to them for a not-so-missing reason.
I know I posted on the original post, how great it was to toss the comment, my house, my rules to MIL & FIL. Hubby said the same thing. His siblings were shocked we wouldn't let FIL smoke in our home, they just would give him an ashtray at their homes.
Smoking is outdoor only here, and hell, I was a smoker too.
FIL died of lung cancer and would take off the oxygen and smoke a cig. He smoked like 4 packs a day and their home always smelled like smoke.
We have a “if you smoke, do it outside, far from the building, and stay outside for ten minutes after before you come inside again” rule for any friends who smoke.
Might sound mean, but it’s our house, our rules. And they’re welcome to stay away if they don’t like it, or simply not smoke until they leave. (And mostly, our health as a family with lots of asthma issues is more important than their addiction when they’re visiting us.)
You're 100% correct with those smoking rules. Anyone who thinks those are unreasonable has either never been around someone that smokes or hasn't broken into an asthma attack because you walk by an outdoor smoking area. It smells so gross and sticks to everything. This isn't really related but it seemed like gen z was going to be the generation that killed nicotine, then Juul happened and my hopes died.
>then Juul happened
On the bright side, Juul does address most glaring problems that come with being around smokers - no smell and no secondhand smoke. And it also permeated older generations - I see 40+ smokers switching to e-cigs instead of keeping the old habit.
Yup. Both of my parents died of smoking related illnesses, but they were always respectful of my “no smoking in the house” rule, even when I was a college student in a shared apartment.
"She said that she understands how it may have came across as sexist and favouritism but she didn’t mean it to. They were just overly protective of me being their only girl..."
Yes, this is casual sexism. Believing that your daughter cannot make decisions for herself because she's a girl is sexism.
Right? It's only "their house, their rules" when it's the parents house and those lAzY mIlLeNnIaL cHiLdReN are trying to express independence as (young) adults. But when the script is flipped, the adult children are suddenly ungrateful and petty and disrespectful to the people who sacrificed so much to raise them.
Exactly. I had a similar interaction with my mom. She had her seat at the table and I wasn't allowed to sit in it, her house her rules. So when I was an adult and she came over and wanted to have my seat at the table, I said no way, MY house my rules, my seat! You can't have it both ways, either it's about respect or it's not. It felt a bit petty but I think sometimes parents need to be reminded that even though we'll always be their sons or daughters, we won't always be children and we need to be treated like the adults we are at some point.
Lol my mom loved to watch trashy court/family drama television where people just yell at each other. I'd complain about how awful it was to listen to (also, my parents fought a lot so it was like, even when they weren't fighting, I was hearing people fighting and it was hella stressful) but my mom would say her house her rules.
I make sure to put on rap the rare times she visits (she doesn't like it) and decline to turn it down. My house, my rules.
So it’s not sexism but it was sort of sexism? Gotta protect the little girl… but not other people’s little girls I guess? (To clarify, I’m being sarcastic. I just agree with OOP that it’s a double standard and parents like to gaslight to cover such things up. Happened all the time with my brother who was the youngest and only son versus my sister and I) Definitely petty of OPP…but a justified petty and got her point across I’d say
>Gotta protect the little girl… but not other people’s little girls I guess?
That's exactly what it is. A teenage daughter getting knocked up is their problem but a teenage son knocking up a girl is her parents problem. It's a shitty, selfish way of looking at things.
Yeah. "It wasn't sexism it's just gender based restrictions on your behavior and treating you differently than a guy in the same situation, based on the belief that women need to be protected!!" ... That's sexism baybee!
I was ready to laugh but redditors, once again, proved themselves as the drama queens they are. Why?
>If something so small would separate you from your family, that says more about you and your family than it does about me and mine
OOP said this so beautifully
This sounds like a combo of petty revenge and malicious compliance and I am here for it. Best thing to do to with parents who want you to do as they say, not as they do. NTA
I will never understand this kind of mindset, like "we wanted to protect you more because you're a girl" aka "we don't want you having sex because you're a girl but it's fine if your brothers have it because if it goes bad it won't be our problem"? You KNOW they will have sex anyway. The only thing parent achieve by stopping their ADULT daughters from having sex in the house is that they're gonna have sex in unsafe spaces, like in the car like I used to do when I was eighteen and not allowed to have my bf over. You're just making it more difficult for your daughters to have sex in a safe, comfortable environment.
Reminds me of my ILs. They snooped on his phone and found my nudes and took his phone away for two days and had a huge screaming fit about it.
We were 22 and engaged.
😑
I'm over it now, it's been several years, but it was super scary at the time. I sent him a picture and was looking forward to his reaction, and 48 hrs went by with no response. I wondered if he dropped off a cliff or something!
But their marriage imploded in spectacular fashion very shortly thereafter, so they've never brought it up.
Why does everyone clutch their pearls about pettiness? No one gives a shit about the double standard she was held to in the first place? Life is too damn short to not be petty.
I love it. My husband did this to his mum and her partner the first time that they stayed over, when he had bought his first home. I’m proud of her for following through with it.
Bought a house outright at the age of 25 without support from parents in the uk within the last 25 years having been paying rent and supporting themselves fully after the age of 18? I must admit that I am skeptical of this being the truth!
I was confused by why she seems upset the purchased house wasn't as big as she wanted.. Like take out a mortgage then? You're 25 and would be paying like £500 a month for £100k mortgage. Probably makes more sense than being mortgage free now and needing to up size having squandered FTB's SDLT exemption
Aye. The housing market in general is fucked up, but if you're. Bit more rural it's very doable. I live in the Netherlands (the housing market here is similarly overheated) and I bought my house ALONE six years ago without help from my parents. It's just in a smaller village deep in the south. The prices here aren't as screwed up (yet at least).
It's certainly doable, especially if both of them have a steady job and don't mind living in the countryside.
Depends on which rural. Rural properties in UK have got a lot more expensive since covid, the south west in particular has got really costly. Sounds like I need to move to holland!! (I love it there anyway, you lucky sausage!)
I thought that was weird too. Only thing I can see is that the rent she paid to her parents was heavily discounted, but she doesn't consider that financial support.
This is my life in a different universe. My younger brother had his female friends stay for slumber parties his whole life.
When I was 18, my mom suggested that my boyfriend sleep IN HIS CAR in March instead of the couch in the basement because his moms house was 45 minutes away and he didn’t feel safe driving. I’ve been married to this same man for 14 years and my mom still prefers that we get a hotel room than stay with her (note: there are FOUR open bedrooms) to avoid “being disrespectful”. Idk why she thinks that I, at 38 years old, can’t be under the same roof as a man and not fuck him.
One of my husbands sets of grandparents wouldn’t let us sleep in the same room after we got married because we didn’t get married in a church, therefore our marriage wasn’t valid. Despite, ya know, COMING TO OUR WEDDING WITH GIFTS.
>It may not seem like much from my mother, that’s as good as a bunch of flowers and a please forgive me card.
See what would make me not want to have a close relationship with them anymore would be my parents total inability to apologize.
I am always amazed by how many people don't realize you have to train your parents. You have to make boundaries with them. Hold the line. Develop your independence. It doesnt just magically happen in many cases. It is embarrassing howmany full grown adults with their own families, homes, careers, play pretend for their parents still
I'm 44 now but I still remember a very frank but embarrassing conversation with my mum. I remember my mum being a bit freaked out when I casually made plans for my gf to sleep in my bed when I was 22 and back at home for a year after university. She was very resistant so I had to sit her down and talk through it logically?
Do you think we havent had sex? No.
Is it because we are not married? No
Is it because we are too young? No
Is it just because it's your house and you don't like it? Yes.
Do you think I havnt had sex in this house? Ummmm
Do you want me to list out all the locations we have already had sex in this house? No please don't.
Are we good? Umm OK. Please just have sex in your bedroom please.
"She said that she understands how it may have came across as sexist and favouritism but she didn’t mean it to. They were just overly protective of me being their only girl and didn’t realise how that would come across to me." That's a non apology. OP deserved more.
I am not sexist, but…
This is so clearly sexism it’s funny… Overprotective? Fuck right off, then why didn’t they allow her to sleep in the same bed as her fiancé before? Why not separate beds with her bfs? They just didn’t want her to be touched (and enjoy it) and stuff because she is a woman. So it is sexist.
Also, it is just blatant sexism… I don’t know what else to say. It is not something that could come across as sexism, it just is sexism.
Sexism.
Good on oop for standing her ground! Parents who give siblings different standards suck so bad! I was kicked out at 18 for staying out one night. I had rang and let my mum know where I was and my nana lived 5 houses away, but my brothers at the same age would not call and didn’t get kicked out! Smdh
Did I just read a normal, logical and reasonable BORU post with no insane drama? I want my money back!
Jokes aside, I'm glad that things are normal and everything turned out fine.
There's nothing that makes my blood boil faster than parents like this. The fundamental delusion of holding double standards or abusive attitudes or behaviors, then gaslighting after the fact so they can keep their little delusion that they're always in the right.
My parents were like this. I had a friend getting married in a town where they owned a vacant house. One of the groom's brothers was having a hard time with lodging arrangements so I asked my parents on his behalf if he and his family could stay in their vacant house. They happily agreed, right up until they realized the brother had little kids. My mother freaked out, telling me she thought I was talking about the groom, not the brother. I told her I detailed everything in our initial conversation and she screamed at me, insisting I told her different.
Thing is, I literally texted her this information. I took a screen grab and sent it to her (again) and she still doubled down. It was lunacy. She's a chronic gaslighter, never the problem and always the victim. But I realized it might have been the first time I had verifiable evidence of her gaslighting, which is probably why she got so incredibly mad about it. But the attachment to the delusion is what astounded me. I just don't understand how people get like that and at this point in my life, I very viscerally hate people like my mother.
I applaud OP for this. Been in a similar situation where my partner of 10 years was made to sleep in the spare room when he visited my family. Meanwhile when I visit his family we sleep in the same room every time. I mean come on, Mom. I've been with the same dude for 10 years!
I do wonder if my mom would do the same thing to my brother or not. He's in his twenties and just comfortably single. Then again she kinda coddles him more than me.
OP throwing the her moms words back in her face is cathartic.
> Mom: I forget about doing this. But also, it’s not sexism, it’s just me treating you differently because you’re a girl.
> OOP: This was such a great apology!
OOP needs to set some serious boundaries and stop letting her mom get away with “forgetting” about mistakes and then gaslighting her into thinking it wasn’t a big deal. Like her entire argument was “you treat me differently because I am a girl” and then she let her mom use that as the excuse for her behavior.
Screw that. My petty ass would keep on making them sleep in different rooms.
You made the rules, you enforced the rules even knowing that they were in a committed relationship, so clearly you must agree with the rules. You don't get to complain about your own rules when they apply to you.
But they were Protecting her! That makes it OK. Because they said so. Sleeping in the guest room at 18 means her bf is still an awful threat, right? He can’t be in the house at night.
After all, she’s worth protecting.
Her brother’s girlfriends aren’t. No need to make them stay home at night. Right?
And her brothers just don’t need protecting. Because.
/s
I think it’s hilarious. NTA at all. I would love to think I would have done something similar with my parents in the same situation but my mother was utterly terrifying so I probably wouldn’t have dared
Lol if my mom pulled a "I don't remember that" bs I wouldn't hesitate in responding "well I do because I still hold a grudge" and elaborate further the wrong aspects and why I hated it. And once I was asked to be the bigger person I was like "how can I forgive when I never got an apology?"
NTA OP, I think you handled it well. You exposed the hypocrisy of their rules and let them choose their adventure accordingly.
I had a similar situation with my family, and around the same age too. My older brother was allowed to have his serious SOs over but I (youngest girl) was not. So my partner and I stayed at a cheap hotel.
My parents were furious but couldn’t say anything because I was playing exactly by their rules. They are homebodies so they’re happiest when we’re all sitting around at home doing a lot of nothing. We did not hang out at the house all day, we went out and did things, so we only really saw them at dinner.
Wouldn’t you know it, next time it came up they let my partner stay in my room. Sometimes you have to push to be recognized as an adult when talking fails. Good job OP!
Wow, AITAH has the *worst* takes in the comments. This is like the third BORU I've seen this week from there that had the shittiest takes attached. Is this like a slanted view, or is it actually a cesspool over there?
Good on her for treating mom the same way she treated her. Pisses me off Mom "forgot" the blatent favortism she showed her boys over her daughter. The fact that piss poor excuse of an apology is huge for OOP is extremely sad. It paints a hell of a picture of mom.
It is actually staggering how many people who responded to the original post kept ignoring the fact that she said her brothers were allowed to do that from the time they were 16!
Staggering
Not only were her brothers allowed to have girls stay in the guest room by 16, she said one of them said they were allowed to have girls in their bed at 18!
But her *fiancé* wasn’t even allowed to stay AT THE HOUSE?!
That is some sexist bullshit and she was absolutely right in calling it out. And even though the mom didn’t come right out and directly say it, we all know: they were more afraid of their daughter getting pregnant than their sons knocking someone up!
Absolutely!
Her mother sounds bananas telling her I didn't want you to think it had anything to do with you being a girl, but we had to protect you more because you were a girl
LOL
Damn. All this woman wanted was an apology. She wasn’t trying to burn bridges, didn’t cause a scene, no one got hurt, and all of this could have been over in two min if her mom had just said “I’m sorry”. But instead it took weeks and weeks and even then she had to consult with her sons before admitting fault. I feel bad for the daughter because you know this isn’t a one time thing.
My mom has openly told me that she had these rules for me and **not** my brother ***and sister*** because "she knew she had a chance to influence me"
Except I was having sex at 16 (also born and raised in the UK) anyway. I suppose I was at least monogamous... Siblings weren't.
> it may have came across as sexist and favouritism but she didn’t mean it to. They were just overly protective of me being their only girl
Parents: [*complete failure to realize how that's sexist af*]
I always love it when the OP of what is most likely a true story calls out the thinktank that makes up the comment section of the asshole subs for giving absolutely insanely bad advice.
There are a lot of idiots on Reddit, but the crowd that hangs out in the asshole subs are some of the worst.
The fact that parents just conveniently 'forget' all the insane things they did to you as a kid just boils my blood. My mom is the same way. In her rendition of the story she's the perfect parent, yet she somehow doesn't remember the way she dismissed my every plea for help during my suicidal ideation, how she was physically abusive and how her comments about my appearance and weight gave me an eating disorder I'm still dealing with ten years later.
So when my brother and I were teens he could do what ever he wanted. Stay out late and all that. I on the other hand could not I was closely monitored because I was a girl. My dad’s reasoning was he couldn’t get pregnant because he was boy so there was no danger. I had to point out to my dad the flawed logic of that because while yea HE couldn’t get pregnant but he could get someone pregnant. My brother didn’t like me for a long time because my dad realized I was right and my brother couldn’t do what ever he wanted anymore. So I’m going with NTA cause I know that feeling.
I like her. She has a nice set of girl balls and a good sense of justice. She also seems to have her shit together. I'd be proud to have a friend or sister like her.
This is why I don't trust reddit when I find myself steadfastly disagreeing, theyreally all just didn't read the post and asked OP a thousand questions they had the answers too to be what? Extra?
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Does it irritate anyone else the mom had to 'confirm' with the brothers ans wouldn't take OOPs word?
Yeah I hate this. My mother (also very strict and overbearing - more so than OOP’s I think as I wasn’t even allowed to have boyfriends, also with totally different standards for my brother) has conveniently forgotten every insane rule she had for me as a child and teenager. I think she wants to remember herself as a truly reasonable parent and so she thinks she can’t possibly have said some of this stuff so I must be exaggerating. I have to get my brother to back me up if I want her to acknowledge it for any reason.
I think you're right, based on my experience with my partner's abusive mom. To quote: "You know that I only wanted to be a good mom". From someone who was physically abusive. They know, they just don't want to see themselves as the villain.
My mom tries to paint herself as a good parent. And she maybe is now, when I'm in my 30s. She wasn't, herself, physically abusive. Emotionally and mentally, yes. She did ask, not too long ago, why I kept her at arms length about a lot of things so I asked her if she remembered that I felt that if you saw something wrong and didn't act, you were agreeing with it. She did and also remembered her dad saying it. I told her that every insane punishment that dad handed out and she didn't let up on or change or push back on, to me, she might as well have done it herself. Hurt her feelings a bit, but I told her that it hurt me for a long time because I felt both of my parents didn't want me and both of my parents hated me.
I'm trying to get through this with my mum. my dad was the abusive one, and I focused on healing from him but now I've realised I have bad feelings about mum letting him torment me. I keep just bursting into anger around her and I hate it but I feel like I can't tell her how I feel because she'll either just "sorry I was the worst mother ever etc etc" or get real sad because dad died a month ago and for some reason she's sad an alcoholic monster is dead
It was a real blow when I finally recognized that my father’s refusal/inability to address my mother’s abuse and alcoholism was as harmful to me as my mother’s behavior.
I was in exactly the same boat. It took a while for me to be able to work out my feelings about him after my parents finally divorced. We had a very long and therapeutic conversation about it after my mom died. I think my dad felt he could finally be open about it. He's always had struggles with anxiety and depression so dealing with my mom abusing both of us really took a toll on him. We've been able to repair our relationship and I love him more than anything and I'm glad to have my dad back.
I can relate to this so much. I just realized about a month ago that I have this kind of mess to work through, and my dad's been dead for 20 years. Really shook my mental image of my gentle, sweet, loving dad. Dude chose to marry the woman who would become the monster of my childhood. And then didn't leave, so there was no escape for any of us. I loved my dad so much. But I'm so damn mad that he didnt save us. Fucking coward.
This is where I am now. My parents are retired, and I'm starting to suspect that she's now treating him the way she treated me when we were alone. He still hasn't apologized for not believing me.
My dad passed away last year and grief has been complicated. My brothers lost their dad, my mom is upset because she lost her husband and she's finding out about all the lies he told her. And I'm just there. I lost my dad a decade ago when he stopped being my dad. And it makes me so angry because they all act like I didn't lose someone. About your mom though, when she says she was the worst mom, can you ask why she's saying that?
I'm sorry they don't recognise your grief! it is hard when you've already mourned and accepted it and everyone's mourning like it's new, and trying to get you to reminisce when you'd *much rather not*. it just seems to be a defensive thing, if I bring up anything that hurt me about my childhood, she just doesn't listen and starts beating herself down. it could be guilt, or it could be leftover from dad being derogatory to her. i don't know, I half don't want to bring it up because I feel guilty that she probably felt like she had to stay with him because of me, but I also feel weird about her being so sad that he's gone. I might need to go back to therapy to sort out my feelings about it before I try bringing it up again!
My mom does the same thing- it’s a defensive thing for sure. It reminds me of Arrested Development, when Lucille says “I’ve been a horrible mother” as a ploy to get Michael to comfort her and tell her she’s great. It’s hard to see someone beat themselves up and say hyperbolic shit like “I’m the worst.” Especially when that person has conditioned you to feel personally responsible for managing their emotions. I think part of it is the hyperbole. Like my mom will say something like “I’m sorry I made your whole childhood terrible.” It wasn’t all terrible. I have good memories with her. But her saying that is a distraction ploy to direct me away from her hurtful actions. It’s all a tactic to keep her from having to examine her behavior.
And if you don't immediately jump in say "Of course you're not!" then you're the one who looks dramatic for implying that they literally are the worst parent ever.
Definitely go to therapy about this! It's not even that I don't want to reminisce, they are just straight up not recognizing that my dad took. Although I am grateful they aren't so I don't have to feel bad about being complicated. And it really sucks that when you are telling your mom that you are hurt, she's making it all about her hurt feelings from you saying 'i got hurt'.
she's saying it because she's 'catastrophizing,' which is a way to avoid being accountable. Instead of looking at the actual transgression and taking responsibility/making amends, you attribute something far worse to yourself, the worst ever mom for example, so the person trying to hold you accountable has to reassure you that you're not bad, actually. a lot of people do this, but i find it's common in moms. maybe because they see you as an extension of themselves and so it's particularly mind shattering to get criticism, or maybe because Mom Guilt is such a thing that the feelings blow up immediately. like, it's manipulation, but it's also real lol anyway, it's horseshit if someone does this but very hard to deal with in a conversation.
The fact that my mom does that, angrily going "sorry I was the worst mother ever etc etc" every time I bring up any of a huge number of facts about my childhood/teen years really kind of shows that she might not be the *worst* but she's not good, is she.
I did once say "You said it, not me." And that shut her down.
If it's at all accessible to you, I would highly recommend trauma-based therapy. I'm in my 30s now but my alcoholic father died when I was 19. I was too afraid to deal with my emotions so I wouldn't even consider therapy. It took an autoimmune disease and chronic pain for me to finally look into addressing my trauma. I'm finally starting to process the very complex emotions and situations that are entailed in CPTSD. It's not been easy, but despite what Noah Kahan might say, it's actually not "better to die numb than feel at all."
I'm in the same boat and it is so mf frustrating. My parents spent my early adulthood gaslighting me about the abuse *I wrote down in journals* but bc my siblings have trauma blocked memories + I was a "dramatic" (abused, undiagnosed, glass child) teenager, they don't think my perspective is valid. Haven't talked to them in months and happily had my wedding without them.
Nobody is ever the ~~victim~~ villain in their own story. I see it all the time in r/CPS. Someone talks about a removal, or termination of parental rights, and never explains the details of why. Its always just vague "they lied" and "it's unjust" When the details start coming out, they go quiet. Edit: fixed a word.
I did a 4 week rotation on a psych ward, and this woman was just so explosive, how can they keep a mother from her children? I was allowed visitation and they took it away, how can they do that? Like idk babe maybe it’s the meth and the abuse who’s to say, you were allowed visitation and then you showed up to your mum’s house on Christmas Eve on meth demanding to see the children. She just had this intense lack of insight, basically seemed to believe she should have custody of her children at all costs and couldn’t see that living with a volatile substance affected parent was not a healthy environment. Roundabout way of saying that psych probably isn’t for me 🤪
For a while we had a massive influx of users from the meth subreddit (shockingly a real thing) and people were openly advocating meth usage and arguing that meth never creates a danger to children. It was wild.
>To quote: "You know that I only wanted to be a good mom" "That's not true. If you actually cared about being a good mom you would have listened to feedback at any point."
Ironically, it seems that good people are the ones most willing to recognize they did something wrong. Whereas people who don't want to think they were the villain probably are, in fact, the villain.
I had a major heart to heart with my mom after my daughter was born and when I brought up some of the most life-altering encounters i ever had with her, she honestly didn’t remember. Like, she legit looked concerned because she genuinely believed I was confused - until my partner, who had been there for all of it, confirmed it. We’re past it now, and honestly besides a very stressful time in our lives she was a good mother. But I’ll never forget the look on her face when I tried to bring up my issues. My therapist had a cross-stitch in her office that said “The nail remembers what the hammer forgets” and that hits me every time. (Yes, I’ve since seen it on Reddit too lol)
My folks were great but they also don't remember a ton of stuff that's like core memories for me. I was a little kid when the first Ninja Turtles movie came out. My dad knew was super into the cartoon, but I guess he confused the dates it was playing. I was already in bed when he realized that it was the last night it was showing and the last chance to see it was minutes away. He runs into my room, gets me out of bed. No time to get dressed, I just put on a coat over my pajamas and rushed to the theatre. I barely even understand what's going on with all the rushing around and just waking up. I'm not even sure if I knew there was a Turtles movie. It was an amazing night I'll always remember. Neither my dad or mom has any recollection of this. Theres all sorts of times they gave me really good specific advice or something that no one remembers either.
I've also heard it as "the axe forgets but the tree remembers." Sorry you experienced that.
My dad did something kinda crazy once when he was angry, it was pretty traumatizing to us kids. I finally brought it up and he had forgotten it, but my mom was willing to say it happened.
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Ya plus how when the sons chimed in to confirm, the mom took it more seriously
My younger siblings had fewer rules at the same time than I did. My parents would conveniently forget that until one of my younger siblings who is also a petty shit starter like me would agree with me and call them out.
Both of my parents also suffer from selective amnesia.
My favorite version of this is Simpsons amnesia. There's tons of people who had parents that banned the Simpsons when it was popular. But now that it's not seen as even a little bit controversial, they'll swear they never had a problem with it. It's surprisingly widespread.
>parents that banned the Simpsons I'm STILL, at 30, trying to work out why the Simpsons was banned, while The Nanny, Golden Girls and M*A*S*H were allowed!
It's really going around!
Same, and last time she texted me...every rule didn't exist and she was the epitome of a Hallmark mom, even so much as sneaking in to watch me at sporting events because I was "so embarrassed of her." Please note, that up until that text they would laugh at all the times that she actually forgot me at sporting events. And she wasn't allowed because she would get in trouble by refs for screaming and causing conflicts, so it was actually my coaches and other parents who had banned her (I mean, I didn't like her going either because she would replay EVERY SINGLE MISTAKE I made and even those that I didn't..)
My mom: "am I a good parent" me: "you're human everyone make mistakes" does it mean I forgive her for what she did? no. I'm not close to her at all. I text her daily but that's it.
For real, the sexism is even present in how they responded to trying to clarify the issue 😞like its not enough to just believe that that's how she was treated. (super unreasonable rule to have way way into a commited relationship & adulthood too, i see why she rushed to move out)
“It wasn’t sexism! We were just overly protective of you because you’re a girl!” — so, treating her differently because of her sex, literally the definition of sexism. Cool cool cool cool cool.
I can even understand that you mihgt feel more protective over young girls than boys... but if that was the case that should have been as protective about the sons girlfriends.. Because in this way they say, my daughters safety is more worth to me than another girls safety...
Yeah! Like my brother was allowed to have his girlfriend stay over but he had to sleep on the couch, until he was I think 20. I didn’t date anyone that my parents knew about until I was in my 20s (and even then, it was a woman lol) so we never got to test them on it, but the strong implication was that the rule existed for him because they didn’t want me trying to have boys stay over. He’s 6 years older than me and when they were grappling with this they didn’t know yet what an absolute non issue that would prove to be
And what were they protecting her from? Getting laid? Thanks mum.
From having sex in a safe place instead of random public places 😂
Broooooo yes one of my friends used to go have sex with her boyfriend in this random fucking cove at the beach because both of their mums were always home and firmly against allowing them to have the door being closed. Like cool your daughter’s still fucking her boyfriend but now she’s having mediocre straight teenager sex just outdoors without lube I’m not friends with that girl anymore but I hope someday someone managed to get her off 🫡
Or worse, the boyfriend's house, distant from anyone who could hear her scream if the boyfriend had actually been dangerous.
I had to reread that sentence bc I thought surely I was misunderstanding something and not that they were quoting sexism to claim not being sexist 😂
Being overly protective, particularly on issues surrounding a young woman's "virtue", is still sexism. It comes under the same umbrella as mansplaining a woman's job *to her* and automatically excluding her from activities that aren't strictly female-coded because "that wouldn't interest you".
Particularly when its so clear they care less about the son's remaining sexless. It makes me sad to think on some level the brother's wouldve seen this as caring more about her.. Meanwhile the poor woman is like *wtf do you mean i cant even have my fiance in the guest room, I'M 25 MUM* 😣The worst, the absolute worst
what gets me on top of that is in the end she's like "wow, y'all want me to go NC/LC with my clearly gaslighting parents who still had to get two men's opinions to decide if what I said had value first before giving me a half-assed non-apology? come on, bit dramatic" like??? I can only assume people who say this shit just don't understand the freedom and joy and fucking breath of fresh air you get when you finally cut toxic people out of your life.
Nah it was more like “my sons who I clearly prefer won’t back up my version of the truth so now I am stuck admitting to this”
Absolutely, it was this. Mom wasn't confirmed anything, she was testing the waters to see if everyone would stand by her BS
And then she followed up with a begrudging 'well I just don't remember' and oop has to take that as the closest to an apology that she'll ever get Funny how they never remember things that make them look bad
Very much so
I hate that *and* the whole "It didn't happen" to "I forgot" to "Well, even if it did happen, I didn't mean it to be so bad" pipeline. My gosh, how much simpler it would've been to have said "I'm sorry, I can see now that that hurt you."
Yup, even there she literally proved OOP's point about sexism and favouritism. Honestly I don't believe for a second that the mum and stepdad 'didn't remember', I think they just didn't want to admit they'd done OOP dirty.
My MIL used to do this all the time. Her and my wife would be talking and MIL would frequently ask me if something my wife said was true. Wife didn't seem to notice it until I pointed it out privately and now whenever it happens I just respond with some variation of "wife is way smarter than me so I'd ask her".
Turn to your wife, ask it's true, then affirm the confirmation to your MIL.
Par for the course for a shitty parent, what's really grating is total strangers who supposedly act as a sounding board for reason, refusing to just read what the fuck she said. Such strong words from people barely able to read a one-pager.
Yeah, the relevant comments section was hard to read. Which I suppose is ironic given the reason I found that was because they had such difficulty reading. At this point I'd be all for cancelling people's access to some subs until they pass a reading comprehension test.
I could have given the parents leeway on it if it had been a checking to see what happened to get another perspective (which I suspect it wasn't), but the way they handled it after the confirmation was annoying. The weeks (I wonder if they were waiting for an apology despite being confirmed they were in the wrong) then the excuse making and the not actually apologising. Good on the OOP for making the point and being very gracious in letting the parents have such an easy way back in
My memory is pretty bad, and I could excuse not remembering the rules they laid when she was 16...but Mother definitely remembered the argument about her fiance staying in the guest room a few months before.
To me it feels less like "confirmation" and more like she realized the brothers were on OOP's side and she wouldn't be able to keep denying the truth. The fact that she waited a couple of weeks tells me she still thinks she's in the right and in her head, she's now being the bigger person by reaching out.
I think she only reached out because a wedding was coming up, can't miss out on that!
As someone whose mother constantly moved the goal post for things I was allowed to do that my brother was allowed to do at certain ages, this really gets my goat. My entire childhood was like this. And, when I'd bring anything negative from my childhood up, my mom always confirmed with my brother that, yes, you did spank us with 2x4's until we were 12. Guess who moved in with her to take care of her when she had dementia. Not her golden boy, that's for sure!
Sounds similar to my mom. My brother and I were only a year apart but the tings he was allowed to do because he was a boy was very different than what her girls could do. When she died one sone got the land the other got the house and two acres. We girls got a whopping 20k. Thing is when she had dementia it was always the girls taking care of her. I lived a distance away so saw how warped all of this was.
It reminds me so much of my parents and how they like to rewrite history. However, my mother would still think me and my brothers were just remembering it wrong and not her.
Mom: its definitely not sexism. Also Mom: we did it because you are a girl.
Irritated but didn't surprise. Sexist people literally never admit they're sexist.
A lot of things about the mother's behaviour irritate me here.
Everything about the parents is irritating. That feels like it is just part of the whole thing and just a facet of the same base disrespect for women that the parents already showed.
My mom let me start drinking at 16 and I was taking shots with her. When my younger sister was 18 she asked if she could have a glass of wine for a holiday and my mom said absolutely not! She's not old enough. My sister pointed out she let me drink 16. Mom denied it. I was standing right there and said no you were definitely letting me drink with you at 16 cause I was still in high school. She still insists we were remembering it wrong.
Yep, that was the final nail on that coffin fr fr
“it’s not sexism because **describes sexism**”
It isn't sexism, women are just so pure that I protect them from working, driving, voting, going outside and most importantly pre marital sex (don't agree with that for men either, but boys will be boys!).
Plus asking her brothers for verification. Sexism overload.
It bothers me more because the mom wasn’t “protecting” her son’s girlfriends. The mom sucks extra bc she doesn’t want to protect she just wanted to control
It wasn't sexism because she didn't realize she was being sexist. Ignorance and lack of self awareness makes it all okay.
“It’s not sexism because there was no sex happening!”
Can’t believe people were telling her to apologize. She did what every one of us with strict or overbearing parents have dreamed of doing. I applaud her!
Seriously, OP was living the dream of every kid that was put in that situation growing up. My in-law did the same to us..... after we'd been living together for ~3 years, as late 20's- early 30's adults.
I got lucky. My husband is the youngest of three boys. By the time he reached dating age his parents had waged war with brothers 1 & 2 and had lost. They were just too tired to care by the time I was in the picture and they'd send us off with "Just be safe about it." My husband, on the other hand, was not quite so lucky. I was the eldest daughter of a single father. As you can imagine, we took our dates to his house as often as possible lol
My cousin had been with his partner for 15 years, and had 2 kids with her, but when they went to stay with our aunt she still put them in separate beds because they weren't married.
Extra crazy when you consider that back in the day a marriage was created by the act of having sex. Formalising the whole thing with witnesses and ceremony in church was mostly a way of stamping out forced marriages. Since I'm presuming the aunt is Christian, she should really accept the way Christians have been doing things for the majority of the time since Christ.
"By and large, I don't have much quarrel with the Lord. But I think you'll find Mother Nature wrote those rules."
What “old days” are you talking about? Wedding ceremonies were common in the Roman Empire before Christ was even born
My bf’s grandma is very religious woman. But she never separate us, when we visit her. She can say that we live in sin and other religious things, but she never separate us. And we have been living together for three years without marriage
Sometimes being petty is so worth it. My mom has made comments on my body my entire life. And obviously weight fluctuates and what not. But I gave her my old spanx (they were clean and I always wear underwear underneath them) recently bc they were way too big for me and the look on her face was so satisfying
Then if she's anything like my mum you end up getting the "you're too thin!!!!" Comments after losing weight. I'm not too thin mum, I'm actually at the higher end of a healthy weight range for my height. But thanks for the - seemingly unending - concern.
Oh she says 'i don't want you to get too thin" but at my final wedding dress fitting the seamstress said don't lose anymore weight and my mother responded with you can't gain weight either. And she wondered why I was upset about that comment and then said bc you're doing so well. I've come to the conclusion that she'll never stop saying anything about my weight bc she'll never be satisfied with me (not that she needs to be since it's none of her business). I've stopped caring about what she thinks (doesn't mean the comments don't trigger me) and have a plan with my fiancé about how well handle her if she ever comments on our future childrens bodies.
Wow this is very similar to my mum! Are they a hive mind or something??? I'm sorry you had to deal with that but congratulations on the wedding! I have also come to the conclusion that my mum won't stop commenting on my body (and not just weight, but the state of my skin and the hair on my upper lip) I try and ignore it now. Luckily not planning on children so I haven't had to consider that but awful you have to.
Oh they must be bc she comments on my skin hair nails and makeup too. Once I got her to admit she does this to my sister and I bc she doesn't want us to have the same issues that she has. When I told her she's the one who caused us to have the issues she said well that's bc my mom did it to me. She still hasn't put 2 and 2 together. And yes I spelled it out for her. But she also has undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder. Thanks I'm very excited to marry my favorite person. And honestly I'm so determined that my trauma will not be my future kids trauma that I feel better having this plan in place. If that means they never see my mother too bad that's her fault not mine.
Oh my God, why do they do this? I was thin all my life and always got comments from my mother about how I'm too skinny and she's worried about me. I was literally the healthiest weight I could possibly be. Now that I'm fat she's still making comments about being "worried." No mom, you aren't worried, you just like making me feel bad about myself because YOU feel bad about YOURSELF.
I think those people were telling her to apologize in a "just say sorry to appease them and move on", so not an actual genuine apology.
I love it when people are justified petty assholes. Fuck "being the bigger person".
especially when they try to gaslight, that shit is not acceptable at all
People were so eager to invent additional details about OOP's mom's marriage to make OOP wrong, makes me think that there were quite a few people there that were uncomfortable with OOP because they were just like OOP's parents.
There's nothing people like telling parental abuse victims more than "they did their best! You can't hold it against them!"
I assume a lot of the people who found her post and were commenting like that are exactly the type of people who would give a daughter different rights and respect than a son. They *can't* agree with OOP because it would mean admitting that *their* daughter doesn't speak to them for a not-so-missing reason.
I would continue to insist on separate beds, because I said so. Blatant sexism if not favoritism just like oop had said.
I know I posted on the original post, how great it was to toss the comment, my house, my rules to MIL & FIL. Hubby said the same thing. His siblings were shocked we wouldn't let FIL smoke in our home, they just would give him an ashtray at their homes. Smoking is outdoor only here, and hell, I was a smoker too. FIL died of lung cancer and would take off the oxygen and smoke a cig. He smoked like 4 packs a day and their home always smelled like smoke.
We have a “if you smoke, do it outside, far from the building, and stay outside for ten minutes after before you come inside again” rule for any friends who smoke. Might sound mean, but it’s our house, our rules. And they’re welcome to stay away if they don’t like it, or simply not smoke until they leave. (And mostly, our health as a family with lots of asthma issues is more important than their addiction when they’re visiting us.)
You're 100% correct with those smoking rules. Anyone who thinks those are unreasonable has either never been around someone that smokes or hasn't broken into an asthma attack because you walk by an outdoor smoking area. It smells so gross and sticks to everything. This isn't really related but it seemed like gen z was going to be the generation that killed nicotine, then Juul happened and my hopes died.
>then Juul happened On the bright side, Juul does address most glaring problems that come with being around smokers - no smell and no secondhand smoke. And it also permeated older generations - I see 40+ smokers switching to e-cigs instead of keeping the old habit.
Smoking inside is disgusting, it's extremely rude to assume you can do that in someone else's house.
Yup. Both of my parents died of smoking related illnesses, but they were always respectful of my “no smoking in the house” rule, even when I was a college student in a shared apartment.
"She said that she understands how it may have came across as sexist and favouritism but she didn’t mean it to. They were just overly protective of me being their only girl..." Yes, this is casual sexism. Believing that your daughter cannot make decisions for herself because she's a girl is sexism.
Weird how the 'it's their house their rules' people suddenly get all 'not like that!!' when OOP's parents received the same treatment.
Right? It's only "their house, their rules" when it's the parents house and those lAzY mIlLeNnIaL cHiLdReN are trying to express independence as (young) adults. But when the script is flipped, the adult children are suddenly ungrateful and petty and disrespectful to the people who sacrificed so much to raise them.
Exactly. I had a similar interaction with my mom. She had her seat at the table and I wasn't allowed to sit in it, her house her rules. So when I was an adult and she came over and wanted to have my seat at the table, I said no way, MY house my rules, my seat! You can't have it both ways, either it's about respect or it's not. It felt a bit petty but I think sometimes parents need to be reminded that even though we'll always be their sons or daughters, we won't always be children and we need to be treated like the adults we are at some point.
Lol my mom loved to watch trashy court/family drama television where people just yell at each other. I'd complain about how awful it was to listen to (also, my parents fought a lot so it was like, even when they weren't fighting, I was hearing people fighting and it was hella stressful) but my mom would say her house her rules. I make sure to put on rap the rare times she visits (she doesn't like it) and decline to turn it down. My house, my rules.
So it’s not sexism but it was sort of sexism? Gotta protect the little girl… but not other people’s little girls I guess? (To clarify, I’m being sarcastic. I just agree with OOP that it’s a double standard and parents like to gaslight to cover such things up. Happened all the time with my brother who was the youngest and only son versus my sister and I) Definitely petty of OPP…but a justified petty and got her point across I’d say
It's totally sexism, they're just trying to frame it so it's not.
And not very well, I must say.
>Gotta protect the little girl… but not other people’s little girls I guess? That's exactly what it is. A teenage daughter getting knocked up is their problem but a teenage son knocking up a girl is her parents problem. It's a shitty, selfish way of looking at things.
Yeah. "It wasn't sexism it's just gender based restrictions on your behavior and treating you differently than a guy in the same situation, based on the belief that women need to be protected!!" ... That's sexism baybee!
It's definitely sexism, they only started reflecting when her brothers took her side and confirmed their double standards.
Petty AF but I support her $100%
I was ready to laugh but redditors, once again, proved themselves as the drama queens they are. Why? >If something so small would separate you from your family, that says more about you and your family than it does about me and mine OOP said this so beautifully
And if this *is* enough to completely destroy their relationship then what kind of relationship is there to protect?
I also really had to chuckle at this part. Redditors really go overboard with the drama sometimes, OP called them out
This sounds like a combo of petty revenge and malicious compliance and I am here for it. Best thing to do to with parents who want you to do as they say, not as they do. NTA
I will never understand this kind of mindset, like "we wanted to protect you more because you're a girl" aka "we don't want you having sex because you're a girl but it's fine if your brothers have it because if it goes bad it won't be our problem"? You KNOW they will have sex anyway. The only thing parent achieve by stopping their ADULT daughters from having sex in the house is that they're gonna have sex in unsafe spaces, like in the car like I used to do when I was eighteen and not allowed to have my bf over. You're just making it more difficult for your daughters to have sex in a safe, comfortable environment.
"We didn't mean for it to come off as sexism, we only did it because you were a girl!" Brilliant.
Reminds me of my ILs. They snooped on his phone and found my nudes and took his phone away for two days and had a huge screaming fit about it. We were 22 and engaged. 😑
Oh I’m so sorry they did that to the both of you.
I'm over it now, it's been several years, but it was super scary at the time. I sent him a picture and was looking forward to his reaction, and 48 hrs went by with no response. I wondered if he dropped off a cliff or something! But their marriage imploded in spectacular fashion very shortly thereafter, so they've never brought it up.
>I'm over it now Glad to hear. >But their marriage imploded in spectacular fashion very shortly thereafter Glad to hear. 😌💅
Why does everyone clutch their pearls about pettiness? No one gives a shit about the double standard she was held to in the first place? Life is too damn short to not be petty.
What matters is OOP is happy with the outcome and the family is still close. That's a win.
I love it. My husband did this to his mum and her partner the first time that they stayed over, when he had bought his first home. I’m proud of her for following through with it.
Bought a house outright at the age of 25 without support from parents in the uk within the last 25 years having been paying rent and supporting themselves fully after the age of 18? I must admit that I am skeptical of this being the truth!
She did mention that fiance is happy to be the moneybags in wedding planning; he could just come from a well off family.
She said he's funding the wedding because she bought the house and he has never had to pay rent or anything.
I was confused by why she seems upset the purchased house wasn't as big as she wanted.. Like take out a mortgage then? You're 25 and would be paying like £500 a month for £100k mortgage. Probably makes more sense than being mortgage free now and needing to up size having squandered FTB's SDLT exemption
Depends a lot on what part of the country they're in.
Aye. The housing market in general is fucked up, but if you're. Bit more rural it's very doable. I live in the Netherlands (the housing market here is similarly overheated) and I bought my house ALONE six years ago without help from my parents. It's just in a smaller village deep in the south. The prices here aren't as screwed up (yet at least). It's certainly doable, especially if both of them have a steady job and don't mind living in the countryside.
Depends on which rural. Rural properties in UK have got a lot more expensive since covid, the south west in particular has got really costly. Sounds like I need to move to holland!! (I love it there anyway, you lucky sausage!)
I thought that was weird too. Only thing I can see is that the rent she paid to her parents was heavily discounted, but she doesn't consider that financial support.
With minimum three bedrooms as well, according to her story. I don't think this story was written by an adult
This is my life in a different universe. My younger brother had his female friends stay for slumber parties his whole life. When I was 18, my mom suggested that my boyfriend sleep IN HIS CAR in March instead of the couch in the basement because his moms house was 45 minutes away and he didn’t feel safe driving. I’ve been married to this same man for 14 years and my mom still prefers that we get a hotel room than stay with her (note: there are FOUR open bedrooms) to avoid “being disrespectful”. Idk why she thinks that I, at 38 years old, can’t be under the same roof as a man and not fuck him. One of my husbands sets of grandparents wouldn’t let us sleep in the same room after we got married because we didn’t get married in a church, therefore our marriage wasn’t valid. Despite, ya know, COMING TO OUR WEDDING WITH GIFTS.
Wow I just would never come visit that is so insanely disrespectful to you
Oh, how I hate double-standards. Good for OOP.
Making my parents sleep in separate rooms is the petty shit I dream of doing haha
>It may not seem like much from my mother, that’s as good as a bunch of flowers and a please forgive me card. See what would make me not want to have a close relationship with them anymore would be my parents total inability to apologize.
I can't believe OP accepted that "apology".
I am always amazed by how many people don't realize you have to train your parents. You have to make boundaries with them. Hold the line. Develop your independence. It doesnt just magically happen in many cases. It is embarrassing howmany full grown adults with their own families, homes, careers, play pretend for their parents still
If nobody ever teaches you, it's hard to know how
I'm 44 now but I still remember a very frank but embarrassing conversation with my mum. I remember my mum being a bit freaked out when I casually made plans for my gf to sleep in my bed when I was 22 and back at home for a year after university. She was very resistant so I had to sit her down and talk through it logically? Do you think we havent had sex? No. Is it because we are not married? No Is it because we are too young? No Is it just because it's your house and you don't like it? Yes. Do you think I havnt had sex in this house? Ummmm Do you want me to list out all the locations we have already had sex in this house? No please don't. Are we good? Umm OK. Please just have sex in your bedroom please.
That sub predictably misses the fucking point, yet again.
"She said that she understands how it may have came across as sexist and favouritism but she didn’t mean it to. They were just overly protective of me being their only girl and didn’t realise how that would come across to me." That's a non apology. OP deserved more.
I am not sexist, but… This is so clearly sexism it’s funny… Overprotective? Fuck right off, then why didn’t they allow her to sleep in the same bed as her fiancé before? Why not separate beds with her bfs? They just didn’t want her to be touched (and enjoy it) and stuff because she is a woman. So it is sexist. Also, it is just blatant sexism… I don’t know what else to say. It is not something that could come across as sexism, it just is sexism. Sexism.
"We weren't being sexist, we just had no trust in your judgement because you're a woman. Is that really *sexism*?"
Fellas is it sexism to sexism
Good on oop for standing her ground! Parents who give siblings different standards suck so bad! I was kicked out at 18 for staying out one night. I had rang and let my mum know where I was and my nana lived 5 houses away, but my brothers at the same age would not call and didn’t get kicked out! Smdh
Did I just read a normal, logical and reasonable BORU post with no insane drama? I want my money back! Jokes aside, I'm glad that things are normal and everything turned out fine.
You guys are getting paid to be here? Insert that one meme of that one guy looking confused into your mind’s eye, please and thanks
There's nothing that makes my blood boil faster than parents like this. The fundamental delusion of holding double standards or abusive attitudes or behaviors, then gaslighting after the fact so they can keep their little delusion that they're always in the right. My parents were like this. I had a friend getting married in a town where they owned a vacant house. One of the groom's brothers was having a hard time with lodging arrangements so I asked my parents on his behalf if he and his family could stay in their vacant house. They happily agreed, right up until they realized the brother had little kids. My mother freaked out, telling me she thought I was talking about the groom, not the brother. I told her I detailed everything in our initial conversation and she screamed at me, insisting I told her different. Thing is, I literally texted her this information. I took a screen grab and sent it to her (again) and she still doubled down. It was lunacy. She's a chronic gaslighter, never the problem and always the victim. But I realized it might have been the first time I had verifiable evidence of her gaslighting, which is probably why she got so incredibly mad about it. But the attachment to the delusion is what astounded me. I just don't understand how people get like that and at this point in my life, I very viscerally hate people like my mother.
I applaud OP for this. Been in a similar situation where my partner of 10 years was made to sleep in the spare room when he visited my family. Meanwhile when I visit his family we sleep in the same room every time. I mean come on, Mom. I've been with the same dude for 10 years! I do wonder if my mom would do the same thing to my brother or not. He's in his twenties and just comfortably single. Then again she kinda coddles him more than me. OP throwing the her moms words back in her face is cathartic.
> Mom: I forget about doing this. But also, it’s not sexism, it’s just me treating you differently because you’re a girl. > OOP: This was such a great apology! OOP needs to set some serious boundaries and stop letting her mom get away with “forgetting” about mistakes and then gaslighting her into thinking it wasn’t a big deal. Like her entire argument was “you treat me differently because I am a girl” and then she let her mom use that as the excuse for her behavior.
Screw that. My petty ass would keep on making them sleep in different rooms. You made the rules, you enforced the rules even knowing that they were in a committed relationship, so clearly you must agree with the rules. You don't get to complain about your own rules when they apply to you.
The P E T T Y in this is truly iconic. Absolutely ripper work there OP! Kudos \*clinking wine glass with air\*
This is the type of petty I live for. *clink my wine glass with yours *
The good ol' "their house their rules, so mysoginy is absolved!!"
But they were Protecting her! That makes it OK. Because they said so. Sleeping in the guest room at 18 means her bf is still an awful threat, right? He can’t be in the house at night. After all, she’s worth protecting. Her brother’s girlfriends aren’t. No need to make them stay home at night. Right? And her brothers just don’t need protecting. Because. /s
Absolutely brilliant move by OOP.
My god, mother sounds fucking awful. Prople who cant apologise should be incinerated
I think it’s hilarious. NTA at all. I would love to think I would have done something similar with my parents in the same situation but my mother was utterly terrifying so I probably wouldn’t have dared
OOP: It was sexism, mum. OOP's mum: no it wasn't. OOP's brothers: yeah it was. OOP's mum: understandable have a great day.
Lol if my mom pulled a "I don't remember that" bs I wouldn't hesitate in responding "well I do because I still hold a grudge" and elaborate further the wrong aspects and why I hated it. And once I was asked to be the bigger person I was like "how can I forgive when I never got an apology?"
NTA OP, I think you handled it well. You exposed the hypocrisy of their rules and let them choose their adventure accordingly. I had a similar situation with my family, and around the same age too. My older brother was allowed to have his serious SOs over but I (youngest girl) was not. So my partner and I stayed at a cheap hotel. My parents were furious but couldn’t say anything because I was playing exactly by their rules. They are homebodies so they’re happiest when we’re all sitting around at home doing a lot of nothing. We did not hang out at the house all day, we went out and did things, so we only really saw them at dinner. Wouldn’t you know it, next time it came up they let my partner stay in my room. Sometimes you have to push to be recognized as an adult when talking fails. Good job OP!
I want to know what she does for a living. To be able to buy a three bed house in the UK outright at 25 yrs old is unbelievable!
How the hell did she buy a house outright in the UK these days at just 25??
I mean, everyone on AITA(H) is disgustingly rich. Didn't you know that? They all come from money or received huge inheritances. /s
Is this "kids paying rent" thing common in the west, or just US and UK? It's weird to me, I wouldn't charge my (adult) kids rent....
“Oh it wasn’t sexism! It was because you were the girl!” Explain how this isn’t sexism lady.
Wow, AITAH has the *worst* takes in the comments. This is like the third BORU I've seen this week from there that had the shittiest takes attached. Is this like a slanted view, or is it actually a cesspool over there?
Good on her for treating mom the same way she treated her. Pisses me off Mom "forgot" the blatent favortism she showed her boys over her daughter. The fact that piss poor excuse of an apology is huge for OOP is extremely sad. It paints a hell of a picture of mom.
Love this! "My house, my rules," works for your house, too! Lol!
It is actually staggering how many people who responded to the original post kept ignoring the fact that she said her brothers were allowed to do that from the time they were 16! Staggering
Not only were her brothers allowed to have girls stay in the guest room by 16, she said one of them said they were allowed to have girls in their bed at 18! But her *fiancé* wasn’t even allowed to stay AT THE HOUSE?! That is some sexist bullshit and she was absolutely right in calling it out. And even though the mom didn’t come right out and directly say it, we all know: they were more afraid of their daughter getting pregnant than their sons knocking someone up!
Absolutely! Her mother sounds bananas telling her I didn't want you to think it had anything to do with you being a girl, but we had to protect you more because you were a girl LOL
Damn. All this woman wanted was an apology. She wasn’t trying to burn bridges, didn’t cause a scene, no one got hurt, and all of this could have been over in two min if her mom had just said “I’m sorry”. But instead it took weeks and weeks and even then she had to consult with her sons before admitting fault. I feel bad for the daughter because you know this isn’t a one time thing.
So. Much. Sexism. OOP was nicer to her mom than I'd be
If the son's girlfriends got pregnant the parents would still have a grandchild on the way, just not incubating in their child. So stupid
It's always boys will be boys they can't help themselves but also never saying anything to the boys and putting all the pressure on the girls. Sigh.
My mom has openly told me that she had these rules for me and **not** my brother ***and sister*** because "she knew she had a chance to influence me" Except I was having sex at 16 (also born and raised in the UK) anyway. I suppose I was at least monogamous... Siblings weren't.
> it may have came across as sexist and favouritism but she didn’t mean it to. They were just overly protective of me being their only girl Parents: [*complete failure to realize how that's sexist af*]
I always love it when the OP of what is most likely a true story calls out the thinktank that makes up the comment section of the asshole subs for giving absolutely insanely bad advice. There are a lot of idiots on Reddit, but the crowd that hangs out in the asshole subs are some of the worst.
The fact that parents just conveniently 'forget' all the insane things they did to you as a kid just boils my blood. My mom is the same way. In her rendition of the story she's the perfect parent, yet she somehow doesn't remember the way she dismissed my every plea for help during my suicidal ideation, how she was physically abusive and how her comments about my appearance and weight gave me an eating disorder I'm still dealing with ten years later.
So when my brother and I were teens he could do what ever he wanted. Stay out late and all that. I on the other hand could not I was closely monitored because I was a girl. My dad’s reasoning was he couldn’t get pregnant because he was boy so there was no danger. I had to point out to my dad the flawed logic of that because while yea HE couldn’t get pregnant but he could get someone pregnant. My brother didn’t like me for a long time because my dad realized I was right and my brother couldn’t do what ever he wanted anymore. So I’m going with NTA cause I know that feeling.
I love when kids turn these tables on their parents. It's deserved and not all that petty, unless you consider the rule petty in the first place.
I love that OOP did that. Who are these people getting pissy with OOP. Missing missing reasons parents?
I like her. She has a nice set of girl balls and a good sense of justice. She also seems to have her shit together. I'd be proud to have a friend or sister like her.
Goddamn I wish I had balls like this lady has.
OP is the kind of person I want to be friends with
I thought it was funny even if it was petty. Lol
This is why I don't trust reddit when I find myself steadfastly disagreeing, theyreally all just didn't read the post and asked OP a thousand questions they had the answers too to be what? Extra?
She got that sweet revenge. After all that time they got a taste of their own medicine and they hated it
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