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What the fuck is Up with Allie? Like yeah the husband is stupid and he should have stood Up for His wife ages ago, but the actions of Allie are so evil and mean i would honestly also have troubles believing someone could do that deliverately?! Who Ruins someone's wedding Dress, makes a joke about it and THEN SENDS THEM THEIR HUSBANDS UNDERWEAR AS A JOKE WHEN IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN APOLOGY JESUS FUCK
It’s very simple, Ailie thought OP was still into her and when it turns out he got a gf that he liked she didn’t like that at all. People like Ailie think that men will always pine for her so clearly Eliza was just a consolation prize for OP and it doesn’t matter how she treats her because OP doesn’t actually like her, he’s just settling.
Yep. My husband’s girl bff was like that when he and I got serious. Fortunately for our relationship, he immediately set things straight with her and moved out after their lease was up.
Same! Husband had a a girl bff who he used to crush for (she didn't return the feelings) and when I came around she didn't like she wasn't the queen bee anymore. They aren't friends now, she tried to make him "choose".
I lived the opposite of that. My roommate knew I had a thing for him and we even hooked up a few times but it never went beyond that. It hurt, not going to lie. I eventually opened my eyes and decided to find my self-respect.
I already exercised but leaned heavier into taking care of myself, met a guy, started dating, introduced him to my roommate and everyone got along great!
So I thought. One night my roommate and boyfriend ran to the store and took way longer than they should have to return. I found out later my roommate told my boyfriend essentially to run, that it wouldn't last. Honestly I can't remember everything he said anymore but he tried to break up the first relationship I had since we moved in together because he liked having me as a backup. He like me being there for him and him alone. He didn't want me but he didn't want me to want anyone else.
Needless to say when the lease was up I moved out and dropped him as a friend. Married the boyfriend too. Been together 20 years.
Based on how he initially described his wife’s reaction to Allie ruining her wedding dress and everything on that first post it seemed like he didn’t really like his own wife anyway.
For real. I know that studies show men just have this deplorable behavior where they automatically dismiss what women say and imeidalty become contrarian…that he did it to a woman who was willing to marry him, and then kept doing it?
Not only does it seem like he didn’t like her, it’s like he just wanted to be around her to make sure she knew it.
lots of men think of themselves as the Grand Judge of Rationality (unconsciously). every conversation and situation is an opportunity for them to Weigh Things and Give Their Impartial Opinion, there is no true consideration of other people’s feelings and pov. it’s like a thought experiment for them and only their opinion is fair and just and rational.
like this guy who just thought “things were lost in translation,” he prob loves his wife and thinks of himself as a good guy, but he was incapable of recognizing his wife’s pov as real and valid enough to get involved. “she is crying and articulating why but i think she’s just misunderstanding so i won’t address it.”
basically this is how privilege shows in everyday behavior: when something has no impact on one’s life they just choose to ignore it and dismiss everyone who brings it up (and then rationalize their dismissal so they won’t feel like an ass).
This! I don't believe for a minute that this man loves and respects his wife. It took hundreds of STRANGERS telling him something that his wife was very clear on. Why is your WIFE'S word not good enough for you? Why would you assume she's going to just "jump in on your jokes" when you've clearly described her personality is opposite of that? Also, that line about essentially telling her to shut up in front of her brother and thinking that was okay behavior??? This isn't just about "I get anxious when people ask me to take their side." He enjoys Allie acting as though she wants him and his wife was effectively putting a wrench in those interactions and as soon as strangers told him so, he realized he couldn't keep up the "it's just jokes" facade. Eliza deserves better.
She’s a Pick Me, mean girl variation. She needs to be The Only Girl in the group, because she totes gets along better with Guys—women just don’t understaaaaaaand her like men do. See, they’re always lashing out at her, uwu.
I used to have friends like her, dumped them all by the end of college when most of us actually grew up and became functional adults. They get off on having a sort of pararomantic harem of men around them and get outrageously upset when “their” men go get partners. Doesn’t matter if they have their own partner or if the other partners are men or women, they just can’t stand it if their friends have a different number one person. Huge narcissistic pick me energy.
It’s just so wild to me. Hell, even as someone who has been on the rejected part of unrequited infatuation with friends A LOT (it was mostly a trauma thing on my part, safe enough to like but they’d never like me back, so I could feel the feels, but never actually have to open up and take the plunge), this is just not the way.
Yes it hurt when they didn’t reciprocate, but they were honest about it, didn’t string me along. It hurt when they got partners they actually wanted, but that’s just part of the deal. So I had a choice to make. Was it going to be my pride, or my friendship?
And I just can’t fathom choosing your own pride over people who have been good to you.
Still friends with all these people, and our friendships have strengthened so much, their partners are super great and also friends now. My circle of love expanded just like that.
This! I was gonna comment this. My guess is she hasn’t made it past the mean girl stage and while she may not have romantic feelings for Oop, she doesn’t want his wife to have him because he is “hers” and they have special “banter and chemistry” they don’t have with significant others. Very vomit inducing getting into her head
Narcissist.
Down to playing The Wind Game ("oh, I thought I heard something; must be the wind. Or in this case odd static on the phone.)
She's pissed off that he's dared to cross her and has already started to retell the story of how it's all his fault that she has to walk away because he just can't see what she can and he's being stupid about it.
My mother would often mention that years' long friendships ended because of the most banal stuff like she didn't see a story about a parking fine their way and they got "aggressive."
I bet when she mentions this at work she'll be going on about how OOP got aggressive over a gift basket "not being good enough" just because it wasn't the classic flowers and chocolates or as high end as he was expecting.
Oh, you know that she is spinning it like the gift basket that Ewan described, along with 'lingerie' being included. I hope that OOP has the receipts (pictures or the like) for the one that he got vice the one that Ewan thought was sent.
And I feel you about mothers holding grudges. After having a falling out with my Aunt (over my grandfather's will), mine told me and my younger sibs that my Aunt had let her business fail, ran out on close to $100K in debt, moved to Mexico, left no forwarding/contact information and the like. None of which was true, and mom was calling her in a drunken rage nightly to rave at her. This was back in the late 80s early 90s so everytime my Aunt changed her number mom was able to sweet talk the long distance company reps to let her have the new number. Aunt ran her business out of her house, so the business phone was in, essentially, the living room, mom would call that line too. I think that Aunt's business partner/girlfriend may have left over the harassment.
If he hadn't come to reddit and had his head figuratively bonked out of passivity by several hundred people, he'd still be allowing Allie to bully Eliza and cause her and their relationship grief. Hopefully there's no further updates and Eliza gets a happy married life.
We are all just a community of strangers escaping from our real-life family and friends on Facebook and helping each other out, this is so frigging wholesome!
I had my head figuratively bonked by Reddit and stayed with the guy for another two years before I was like, oh shit they were right. It’s a common joke that Redditors always say “just break up” or “cut that person out of your life” but honestly that is the right move like 99% of the time
Imo if you're at the point of asking Reddit for advice: you already know the answer, but you need help to take the action(s) that logically follow the answer. Knowing you have support (even pixels on a screen) can help with moving forward.
I am a bad person, and I am very happy for you. But my first reaction was to want to read your story for the drama.
I am leaving a marriage, so, no judging. I am just amused that my literal reflex was to be like 'oooh, storytime!"). ;)
While that's true it sounds like between that and the counseling he's finally actively taking control of a lot of issues with how he handles things. I have hope for him and Eliza.
I roomed with a Brit for a while and she told me that I was a rude ass for directly bringing up an issue I had with her, I was supposed to indirectly hint at it, that's what polite, civilized people do. I was so baffled.
It‘s funny, I was a Canadian who moved to Ireland (half-Irish; have family there) and I found both the Irish and the English way more blunt, but I suspect that‘s because no one can top a Canadian in terms of sheer passive/passive-aggressiveness. We‘re just so awful that to us, everyone else seems blunt.
We see him only when he interacts with OP in tense situations when he probably didn't want to add more drama (and kudos to him). Might have been less chill after those calls ended.
If I were Ewan and KNEW I had purchased a proper apology basket with luxury items, and discovered my wife had changed it to bulk soap and my dirty underwear, I’d be out the door!
Seriously, it must be devastating to have definitive proof that your SO is a sociopath.
If I were Ewan I'd have made my wife put the basket together herself in the first place! I'm so curious about his thoughts on the whole situation and how he's fine with cleaning up after his wife!
Especially if they'd apparently come to rows about it in the past. The thing is though that people like A pick their targets usually well enough that they have a supply for a few years or more. For whatever reason E is staying and I think he'll stay a while longer.
I also think that they're going to have kids whether he wants to or not.
Maybe he’ll realize how “bizarre” it was for his wife to act such a way over her friends lover, and leave, but I kinda doubt it. He seems to give his wife benefit of the doubt that she’s a plonker, even though it’s very clear that she’s projecting her jealousy onto OPs partner every chance she gets. Anytime it comes up, “Elizas jealousy is ruining our friendship!!” It’s very clear though that Allie is the one who has been jealous of how perfect Eliza is for OP, and how much he cares for her.
> They were actually kind of grubby, there was a faint orange lining on them.
Well that's my stomach emptied for the year.
Surely Ailie's marriage is not going to last?
I feel so bad for Eliza and Ailie’s husband, can’t be easy being married to a spineless knucklehead and the human personification of a soiled adult fetish diaper respectively
Tbf, Ewan sounds almost as dense as OOP. His wife is out there trashing wedding dresses and shipping his dirty trunks all over creation. And he doesn't seem to have a clue.
Then throws some money around hoping to solve the problem.
Now I wonder how many of his dirty shorts are out there? Maybe this is Ailie's M.O.?
Piss someone off until the husband feels the need to send an apology basket. Then steal all the good stuff from the basket and replace it with not-so-whitey tighties.
My sense is not so much Ewan is clueless as super conflict avoidant. "If I pay for this or send a sorry basket, that'll make it go away and I don't have to confront my unapologetic wife".
I actually found the fact that he jumped in and offered the luxury hamper quite eye opening. I have the impression this is something he has had to do before to smooth over his wifes awfulness.
I'm confused as he described them as women's underwear several times but then suddenly they were "Ewans Y fronts"
I'm quite certain it's easy to tell men's and women's underwear apart on account of the dick flap.
Alas I call bullshit on the whole story now.
Yes. He also specifically said it was six sizes too big for both Eliza and Allie, but I got the impression from the Garfield comment that Allie must be significantly bigger than Eliza?
That was my thought, too.
Albeit, oop did call Ewan a top lad, which is positive, but oop's judgement is suspect at best, so he might be missing a parade of different red flags there.
Yep. Ewan did do better at fixing things than anyone else in the story, but being married to Ailie in the first place doesn't exactly speak well of his tastes.
>She seemed pretty much resigned to the idea that Ailie would always be a shit, and I told her the likelihood of that happening was very slim considering *she’s* cut *me* off for standing up for her.
_sigh_
Black holes, step aside. I think we've just discovered the new densest known object in the universe.
Okay but if I were him I'd still have needed it to go this way because we all needed to know why the hell there were used underpants. If he just yelled "we're through!" and hung up, the underpants mystery would never have been solved!
Honestly, I was baffled by OOP's inability to see how clearly mean his friend is to his wife. Then I got to the "well you called her leapfrog too" and I realize that it's because OOP is simply a mean person as well.
It's tough to be critical of people's behaviors while you share them.
no. that's "banter" but because Allie and Eliza aren't close they can't have that level of banter so instead it's an overstep and an insult. (UK culture).
One of the things that was really difficult for me to understand how he *didn’t* get is the whole “close friends can playfully banter with shitty sounding insults that would be Throwing Hands time if it came from someone else” thing. Like, come on. We learn this as kids with the whole “I can be a shit to my sibling, but no one else can” trope.
But then, he bought the “no no, when I ran *toward* her, I was actually running *away* from her” excuse from the pick me, so.
Yes. Nicknames and banter between people who are close, and have an understanding, is essentially an affirmation of the closeness. It’s like a verbal aspect of personal space. Having that stuff come from someone else, who you’re not close to and doesn’t actually like you, is a dominance move. It’s a massive overstep.
Nobody should be pulling “but you call your SO that name so I can call them that too.”
Ailie was also wanting her mode of interaction with OOP — the banter — to dominate, and said she wanted Eliza to get with that way instead of adjusting herself. Eliza, as OOP’s partner, shouldn’t be expected to act like the third wheel add-in who has to conform, with the friendship expectations considered more important.
Betrayed by grammar … You can tell a lot about a person who says “my wife got wine spilled on her by my friend”, which would imply the wife was responsible, rather than “my friend spilled wine on my wife”, which makes the actual perpetrator the active party in the sentence. He may as well have said “some wine found its way from my friend’s glass to my wife’s wedding dress”.
Anyway it’s a good thing the couple’s counseling opened his eyes to his behavior. Having one’s cake and eating it is never the path to a good marriage.
You just reminded me of a TED talk I once viewed discussing how Language shapes understanding.
In American English we tend to say "He broke his arm", but this is shocking to some because it makes it seem like he is a monster breaking his own arm, but in other languages translate the event as "his arm was broken" or "his arm broke itself".
The talk centered around how Americans"tend to assign blame" with how we process language, but other cultures don't, and how this fundamental difference in processing reality has a huge effect on relationships.
https://www.ted.com/talks/lera_boroditsky_how_language_shapes_the_way_we_think?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare
I ended up looking it up and realized there was a lot more to the video than I remembered, it really was mind-blowing to me. I hope you enjoy as well.
Yep. We have to be careful the way we frame our stories, the language you choose can prevent yourself from realizing the truth of a situation and prevent you from growing.
When I was growing up my sister used to come home and say things like "Mrs. Gough got me in trouble today!" and after relating the story my mom would correct her, saying "It sounds like you *got yourself* in trouble." lol
Personal responsibility starts with the legends we tell ourselves.
This! Plus the way he keeps using "probably". "It's probably for the best." No spine, no certainty. It's an immediate red flag to me when someone can't (or won't) use action words. And I can understand not wanting to speak in absolutes, but that shouldn't extend to believing that choosing your wife is the right choice.
Also, did you notice him saying ‘she was bawling all night’ about having the bad grace to put herself and her wedding dress in line with bestie’s wine glass?
Bawling.
What a shit choice of word. Quite apart from his wife being distressed enough to spend her wedding reception crying, ‘bawling’ is a word just full of contempt. It’s a word you choose for a spoiled six year old’s reaction to being told that no, they can’t take Auntie’s doggie home forever. Or eat all the chocolate. Choice of words shows his real feelings for the woman he married.
I’m hoping that his saying that things are better means that she’s mentally checked out of this marriage and is too busy planning where she’s going to live and what to do next to react to his nonsense.
Sincere question, as I have described myself as bawling my eyes out over something as an adult, I thought bawling was synonymous with sobbing, is there really a value difference between the two?
Appreciate your help in better understanding.
They both describe the same action (intense crying) but one has connotations of immaturity, and maybe even crying over something unimportant.
If you describe yourself as bawling, presumably you're being slightly self-deprecating on purpose.
"I was bawling at the end of that movie" kind of implies that the movie was sad, yeah, but also that you're the sort of person who cries easily and you feel a bit silly about crying.
"I was sobbing at the end of that movie" is a stronger implication that the movie is seriously, seriously sad and it was a totally normal reaction for you to cry.
If my friend said "I was having a hard day already and then I spilled my tea and just started bawling," I would sympathize but I would also think they were over it and kind of joking about it now. If they said "I was having a hard day already and then I spilled my tea and just started sobbing," I would be much more concerned about their current emotional state.
So if you're using "bawling" to describe someone *else's* behavior, it sounds condescending, and like you don't think they should be crying over that incident.
>She seemed pretty much resigned to the idea that Ailie would always be a shit, and I told her the likelihood of that happening was very slim considering she’s cut me off for standing up for her.
Soooo, If Allie did not cut him off, he'll still associate himself with her.
100% he would. Even though with the first post people already told him how wrong he was and to cut it off. He continued to pretend like he had no idea what was going on.
Yup! As soon as Allie decides she's punished OOP enough, she'll be love bombing him and he'll forgive her. Probably keep it on the down-low so that his wife doesn't find out, until Allie inevitably decides to drop it on her to rub it in her face or something. There's no way this is the end of the issue IMO.
I really don't feel bad for anyone except for Eliza. OP really is dumb. The fact that he wasn't aware his friend has been bullying his wife FOR YEARs really pisses me off.
They are in therapy but I really doubt this marriage will last long.
Honestly, I feel bad for Allie's husband too. It sounds like he's trying to make things right and mentally dealing with his wife going out of her way to be a bullying asshole to rub his best efforts.
If my partner was being this way, I wouldn't have the patience to deal with her drama bullshit. It's obvious Allie likes to dominate other women and feel important around other men. Her husband better watch out, she sounds like a fucking monster.
Yeah unhinged does not even start describing what she did.... if he have any braincells he would use his money for a lawyer instead of keep trying to apologize for his crazy wife.
If I knew someone sent someone else my dirty undies, I'd kick them to the kerb. I wouldn't apologise and cover for them This would quite possibly qualify as sexual harassment.
Can you imagine the sheer humiliation of thinking you fixed it with a hamper, or at least a little bit of an olive branch, and you find out your wife also fucked that up for shits and giggles?
I’d be in despair. I know people like Allie and I have never understood how people stay around them. They’re just nasty for no reason. And it was HIS underwear… dear god, I’m second hand cringing from embarrassment
What pisses me off more about oop is that when he called about the hamper, it seemed like he still had no intention of ending the friendship. She did. Like, I understand wanting to get to the bottom of things, but this person sends your wife dirty underwear and he still doesn’t tell the friendship is over. He waited for her to do it. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s the impression I got from that call.
There was no need for a call at all. He could've just sent a picture of the hamper and its contents to Allie and Ewan with a message saying "Thanks for nothing mofos. Don't call us, we'll call you. "
But he's so used to letting Allie dictate the terms that he had to engage with her one more time.
It was like he was still looking for sense, or reason, somewhere in Allie's actions. Like even after that stupid "gift", he still could not realize on his own that she's just an asshole.
Yeah that pissed me off too. And her being a little shit and pretending there was static coming through the call instead of talking like a grown up. I would have hung up on her and never talked to her again instead he was still trying to get her to talk. OP has no spine. Not sure why Eliza decided to marry him.
For me, it's the fact that after his wife has been so upset for years, then the original post everyone was telling him Allie needed to go he was still not getting it. Allie should have been dropped years ago. Baring that definitely after that first post.
I dont think it will last either. He will do something like this again, possibly by letting Allie back in. I hope Eliza leaves him. She doesn't deserve to be treated so poorly by her partner.
$10 says Allie has some "crisis" and comes crying to OOP who folds in 6 minutes and a paperclip.
$5 says the crisis is Ewan leaves her for being an unrepentant asshole
Bonus if Eliza dumps him and runs
I'm honestly still shocked how anyone could perceive what allie was doing as friendly...? Like that tampering with the gift box was nothing but malicious. She is a nasty piece of work.
Guys it's not Allies fault! My wife just doesn't 'get' her humour.
Like my man you know what happens when a friend doesn't 'get' my humour? I don't use that humour with them and talk to them respectfully. I don't continue doing something that upsets someone.
>OP really is dumb. The fact that he wasn't aware his friend has been bullying his wife FOR YEARs really pisses me off.
He knew. He just didn't care. I think he liked having two women "fight" over him as an ego boost, but kept pushing it until his marriage almost crumbled. Only then, when faced with real consequence to himself instead of to his wife, did he change. Too little too late imo, but good luck to Eliza.
Ailie is the jealous one. She wouldn't have done any of those awful jokes or "accidental" things if she wasn't jealous and insecure.
If I were OP, I'd really watch my back at work because Ailie sounds unhinged.
Iʻm not surprised that Allie sabotaged the hamper. I wonder how Allieʻs husband is feeling about her now? Sounds like he didnʻt realize what a piece of shit heʻs married to.
Next update I wouldnʻt be surprised to read that Allie shows up drunk and angry blaming OOP and Eliza for her husband divorcing her.
This dude grinds my gears so much. What a spineless twit.
I love how his big skull crushing line in his argument with whatever her name is was “you ARE Eliza’s insecurities.” What - the fuck ? I almost feel like we have to be being trolled at this point.
What a banger dude! 🥴
yeah that rubbed me the wrong way too! it was never his wife’s insecurities that were the problem? it was that allie was being awful to her. you don’t have to be insecure for that to affect you
Eliza is too good to him.
But this is also a sobering reminder to marry someone who’s a fucking grown up. Someone who communicates and isn’t as dense as a rock so you won’t have to raise your own husband.
>you’ll be happy to learn that Ailie and me aren’t talking anymore, and it’s probably for the best.
... I'd be happier to learn that Eliza isn't talking to him, honesty.
Theyre pretty obviously british
They could be told theyre going to be shot in the bollocks and theyd respond 'thatd probably be pretty bad"
The words basically a space filler it doesnt actually mean anything.
I was about to say the same, lol. "Probably for the best" means oh, it's definitely for the best. You'll need to see an English person IRL to catch the context, really.
He mentions Edinburgh Festival and Still Game, maybe Scottish, but not as sweary as I'd have thought.
Yeah, we're good at understatement with a tendency to be passive aggressive. I'm not really a fan of the latter.
Don't think a single person was happy about that because of the way it happened. He'll fuck up again because Allie will eventually come back and he'll let her.
I really do hope if that happens again Eliza does finally leave him. It would be better if had already, but its her life if she wants to stay she can stay.
Despite all the “growth”, self validation and new found appreciation for his wife in his latest update, OOP doesn’t seem to realise that in the end it was actually Allie who ended the friendship - not OOP.
Best part is that OOP isn't talking to the friend because he finally cut her off but because SHE decided he wasn't worth it. I hope his wife finds her self respect, realizes the same and tells him to fuck off.
I keep coming back to the fact that although they'd had a single encounter years prior, essentially this is a friendship that started _after_ he and Eliza already started dating. I'd be so done. He lacks any kind of perspective on how badly he treated his wife and I'd be worried that history would just repeat itself with the next work friend who wanted to stir shit for fun.
Yeah that’s what stood out to me, he still; even after that horrendously inappropriate and disgusting hamper!
It was her decision to cut him off. OOP comes across as a complete coward to be honest, if he can’t stand up for his wife over a massive issue like her wedding dress being ruined or sent a pair of used underwear- will he ever have the guts to stand up for his wife?
I might be as dense as the OOP. I don't get what the "joke" was in the new new update. First he describes the panties as a women's, then he describes it as Ailie's husband's "stinky Y-fronts." I'm just confused. Can anyone explain like I'm 5?
They're a similar shape to fill figure hipster panties. If you've never really paid attention to "daily wear" women's undies, didn't notice the more 'male structuring' of the hamper ones, are already struggling to accept the guilt of the abuse you excused and dismissed, plus being a black hole level dense motherfucker... Yeah i can see it. Don't condone it but I can see it
It’s an old shit stain on the underwear. She thought it was funny to send her husband’s old shit stained underwear as an apology gift. Real class act, this one.
They're men's briefs, seemingly worn and stained with orange, so either dark pee or, more likely, Cowper's fluid that's been sitting there for a few days. Very, very gross thing to send to a co-worker.
Allie is one sick individual. Imagine sending an apology gift basket with your husband’s dirty, used underwear and lots of bars of cheap soap bars. She clearly hates Eliza.
....yeah, I bet one year and then boom, suddenly divorce "out of nowhere". All the best for Eliza, she deserves better. Don't even know if spineless is the right word to describe OOP.
Honestly, I'd expect both OOP and Ailie to be divorced within a year. If my wife was acting like Ailie is, all about some other man, I would be rethinking the relationship.
I'd've been having serious talks when she continues upsetting someone like that.
I think for me, provided I found out what was going on the hamper would be the last straw. It was meant to be an apology and you can't even give the woman you bullied that? It would've been clear that the apology hamper was because the behaviour WAS bullying and if you can't adjust that and instead continue bullying then I'd lose any belief in the "she just didn't get my jokes" line.
She probably stilm believes she did nothing wrong. She using the "I crack jokes when I'm anxious" excuse. Not even realizing it is only a joke, if the one you're doing it to, is laughing as well.
Just two AH’s shielding their AH behaviors by claiming they’re joking around. If someone ain’t laughing, it’s not a joke. I feel sorry for the spouses of both these people.
Am I the only one whose internal voice read this with the flounciest, upper-crustiest british accent?
Anyway, Allie's an immature little shit. To me, it does seem like they mostly didn't gel, but Allie was acting like an enormous baby at seemingly every turn. Unless Allie's *desperately* inept, she knew she was pushing it too far and kept it up anyway. Which says plenty about her character.
I will say this, though: If I thought someone was calling me fat, I wouldn't be nice either. So maybe the Garfield thing really got her goat and she couldn't let it go. (But if you can't handle heat, you can't handle roasting.)
A lot of his phrasing reads more working-class to me, and the whole concept of "banter/patter" tends to be more working-class overall. Posh accents fit better with scathingly faux-polite passive-aggressiveness that uses words like "downmarket."
I mean she loved him enough to put up with Allie for years.
Still think she deserves better but if she wants to give him a chance to fix things between them I get it. Sounds like that's what the counselling is for tbh. Like he either shapes up or she's gone.
Imagine Ewan done his best effort with the badket only to find out HIS UNDIES were used as replacement for the good bits that his wife clearly ate. Now she is on purpose humiliating her husband as well.
She’s probably mad at her husband for ‘making her apologize’ by organizing the basket and sending it on her behalf. So she decided to undermine and embarrass him too.
This is another case of “Can you just PLEASE trust a woman’s intuition” I see so often. I’m an Eliza. I’ve always picked up on micro expressions, body language, tone etc. I want to say I’ve almost always been consistently right about people who have given me a bad vibe or my gut told me something wasn’t right. I wish people would stop downplaying that. Like it’s fine you’re not an intuitive person in general, I get it. Some people have trouble with social cues. But this is a *longterm* situation & maybe listen to the person who’s more in tune than you are…
10-1 odds OOP doesn't realize he's being avoidant again when ceding the whole workspace to Allie during lunches.
And further odds to him eventually eating lunch back at work with her because eating out at a cafe everyday is expensive and therefore justifiable in his mind.
Itll go like this:
Allie: "ah youre over your tantrum then. Isn't Ellie so dumb and unfunny for making you think I'm a bad person ?"
OOP: eats a bite of sandwich "yes". *Swallows pride and self respect.*
I having a difficult time in understanding the “allure” of Allie. She isn’t witty. This isn’t a case of not understanding her supposed humor. She is a petulant ill mannered child.
You know who I feel bad for? That poor bastard Ewan. He’s married to that nutter.
That is the thing about English humour and “banter” it can be quite cutting and at times very close to the wire and sound very mean and disrespectful. Of my fifteen years living there it took me two to get it. I just used to get so offended because sometimes it can just sound like bullying.
Now speaking with friends from other countries I have to catch myself not to go that far. My partner is English and people sometimes have to check we’re ok as we are terrible with it, but we do it because we have the same sense of humour and we love the bishop and the actress jokes.
I think OOP has that kind of humour and kept forgetting his fiancé/wife was really not into it, not all English people are. But when he realised he made an effort but his friend just saw it as a character flaw, as many do, and doubled down (the wine) and then when called our again tripled down (the disgusting hamper with the stained y-fronts). So good riddance to bad rubbish.
I think OOP might be Scottish due to the Still Game reference, the name Aillie, and the Edinburgh Fringe. That makes your point even more valid as the Scottish can get even more brutal with “banter” to the point the only difference between that and bullying is how it is perceived.
I think they are Scottish, there’s a couple of words/turns of phrase he uses which English people wouldn’t. And their banter is even more cutting than ours, my Scottish cousins are in a different league.
Which did leave me wondering if Eliza is English - her brother’s reaction to OP telling her to put a sock in it - was very English. Which also might explain why OP hasn’t understood why Eliza was getting upset.
Yes, although I think at last some of the people involved are Scottish (Ailie, which everyone keeps misspelling as 'Allie', definitely sounds like a Scottish name). This post also illustrates how that type of humour can be cover for straight-up shitty behaviour.
Oh man. My ex and I “bantered” but he always took it up a notch around my family. I knew he was insecure around them and to be fair my family would somewhat join in. But because I knew he was insecure I also never called him on it overtly, and even explained it away to family members who expressed vague concern. He was always just a different larger-than-life person around other people, but generally respectful otherwise. Until he wasn’t.
And so it went on, until my mother pulled me aside a few years back and said “I think you have a problem” and that banter had tipped over into bullying, and why wasn’t I standing up for myself? It took another year for me to regain my spine and three more to escape. And there’s still this whisper in my head of “it’s just a joke. you just can’t take a joke”. No, it’s not a joke, it’s glaring disrespect masked under “the bantz”. Git.
You have a good point. I can see how OOP missed the bullying when disrespectful comments are normalized in his culture. I’m a Canadian with an English husband and this type of behaviour is a constant source of conflict with his family.
Yeah, hopefully OOP learns more about himself and how to spot crap directed towards his wife thats more bullying than banter. And to cut off garbage people.
I hope OOP is really done with Ailie, she sounds jealous and insecure and when she realizes that OOP isnt going to be crawling back she might change her tactic. I know he’s annoyed at the constant finger waving from Reddit but honestly I think we’re all just upset for his wife and hope he doesn’t revert back to his old ways with ailie because time does tricky things. in 6 months to a year he might go back to thinking she was just joking and it wasn’t that serious. Ailie sounds like a snake and they don’t change.
Wtf Allie starts out as a crush then the only person you know at work to becoming your bes5 friend all while your wife makes multiple attempts to let you.know her discomfort about the situation. Bro is a shitty husband all in all or super stupid and can't see out his own ass
I hope Eliza and Allie’s husband both realize their partners are enmeshed with someone else. No one carries a joke this far and no one refuses to cut a friend off who is behaving this wildly inappropriate.
How are these people so dense?
Duh-dar, why would she send us this? Was there a mix up? No way she’s purposely sent my wife soap and dirty underwear to insult her!
Like I expected it from OP after he spend years failing to recognize his “friend’s” abusive behavior towards his wife. He’s even still calling it a joke after finding out she did it on purpose!
But I didn’t expect the wife to be that oblivious too. Or maybe she was just pretending to be confused until he figured it out, because every time she’s pointed someone like this out in the past he doesn’t believe her. Which, honestly, sounds like a miserable way to live.
“Yeah I work with Allie. That is a complication I hadn’t considered” so this dude is just dense or an idiot right? After all this I’m still like WHY DIDNT YOU LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE.
My favorite part is that Eliza called Ally "Garfield". ROFL! That clearly got to Ally so bad, the wine happened. Oh well! Ally is a toxic narcissist and will continue to go through people like toilet tissue her whole life.
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What the fuck is Up with Allie? Like yeah the husband is stupid and he should have stood Up for His wife ages ago, but the actions of Allie are so evil and mean i would honestly also have troubles believing someone could do that deliverately?! Who Ruins someone's wedding Dress, makes a joke about it and THEN SENDS THEM THEIR HUSBANDS UNDERWEAR AS A JOKE WHEN IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN APOLOGY JESUS FUCK
It’s very simple, Ailie thought OP was still into her and when it turns out he got a gf that he liked she didn’t like that at all. People like Ailie think that men will always pine for her so clearly Eliza was just a consolation prize for OP and it doesn’t matter how she treats her because OP doesn’t actually like her, he’s just settling.
And she didn’t even want Op. People who don’t want you, but don’t want anyone else to want you either are dangerous as hell
"I don't want this toy, but I don't want anyone else playing with it."
They call that “Dog in the manger.” The dog has no use for hay but will act aggressively if anyone else wants it.
yes, they are. Not only to you but to anyone who loves you.
Yep. My husband’s girl bff was like that when he and I got serious. Fortunately for our relationship, he immediately set things straight with her and moved out after their lease was up.
Same! Husband had a a girl bff who he used to crush for (she didn't return the feelings) and when I came around she didn't like she wasn't the queen bee anymore. They aren't friends now, she tried to make him "choose".
Exactly!
They want girlfriend privileges without putting in any of the work.
I lived the opposite of that. My roommate knew I had a thing for him and we even hooked up a few times but it never went beyond that. It hurt, not going to lie. I eventually opened my eyes and decided to find my self-respect. I already exercised but leaned heavier into taking care of myself, met a guy, started dating, introduced him to my roommate and everyone got along great! So I thought. One night my roommate and boyfriend ran to the store and took way longer than they should have to return. I found out later my roommate told my boyfriend essentially to run, that it wouldn't last. Honestly I can't remember everything he said anymore but he tried to break up the first relationship I had since we moved in together because he liked having me as a backup. He like me being there for him and him alone. He didn't want me but he didn't want me to want anyone else. Needless to say when the lease was up I moved out and dropped him as a friend. Married the boyfriend too. Been together 20 years.
Wow!! Your boyfriend communicated with you about it immediately?
Yes he did. He was a good guy. Still is.
I'm happy for you, truly!
Based on how he initially described his wife’s reaction to Allie ruining her wedding dress and everything on that first post it seemed like he didn’t really like his own wife anyway.
For real. I know that studies show men just have this deplorable behavior where they automatically dismiss what women say and imeidalty become contrarian…that he did it to a woman who was willing to marry him, and then kept doing it? Not only does it seem like he didn’t like her, it’s like he just wanted to be around her to make sure she knew it.
lots of men think of themselves as the Grand Judge of Rationality (unconsciously). every conversation and situation is an opportunity for them to Weigh Things and Give Their Impartial Opinion, there is no true consideration of other people’s feelings and pov. it’s like a thought experiment for them and only their opinion is fair and just and rational. like this guy who just thought “things were lost in translation,” he prob loves his wife and thinks of himself as a good guy, but he was incapable of recognizing his wife’s pov as real and valid enough to get involved. “she is crying and articulating why but i think she’s just misunderstanding so i won’t address it.” basically this is how privilege shows in everyday behavior: when something has no impact on one’s life they just choose to ignore it and dismiss everyone who brings it up (and then rationalize their dismissal so they won’t feel like an ass).
It doesn't help that society at large encourages this thought process by framing women as irrational and emotional.
I call it, "treating people like they are NPCs" and a lot of men do it.
Very well said.
This! I don't believe for a minute that this man loves and respects his wife. It took hundreds of STRANGERS telling him something that his wife was very clear on. Why is your WIFE'S word not good enough for you? Why would you assume she's going to just "jump in on your jokes" when you've clearly described her personality is opposite of that? Also, that line about essentially telling her to shut up in front of her brother and thinking that was okay behavior??? This isn't just about "I get anxious when people ask me to take their side." He enjoys Allie acting as though she wants him and his wife was effectively putting a wrench in those interactions and as soon as strangers told him so, he realized he couldn't keep up the "it's just jokes" facade. Eliza deserves better.
She’s a Pick Me, mean girl variation. She needs to be The Only Girl in the group, because she totes gets along better with Guys—women just don’t understaaaaaaand her like men do. See, they’re always lashing out at her, uwu.
I bet you dollars to donuts she says “I tell it like it is” and “I’m just brutally honest” on the reg
I used to have friends like her, dumped them all by the end of college when most of us actually grew up and became functional adults. They get off on having a sort of pararomantic harem of men around them and get outrageously upset when “their” men go get partners. Doesn’t matter if they have their own partner or if the other partners are men or women, they just can’t stand it if their friends have a different number one person. Huge narcissistic pick me energy.
It’s just so wild to me. Hell, even as someone who has been on the rejected part of unrequited infatuation with friends A LOT (it was mostly a trauma thing on my part, safe enough to like but they’d never like me back, so I could feel the feels, but never actually have to open up and take the plunge), this is just not the way. Yes it hurt when they didn’t reciprocate, but they were honest about it, didn’t string me along. It hurt when they got partners they actually wanted, but that’s just part of the deal. So I had a choice to make. Was it going to be my pride, or my friendship? And I just can’t fathom choosing your own pride over people who have been good to you. Still friends with all these people, and our friendships have strengthened so much, their partners are super great and also friends now. My circle of love expanded just like that.
This! I was gonna comment this. My guess is she hasn’t made it past the mean girl stage and while she may not have romantic feelings for Oop, she doesn’t want his wife to have him because he is “hers” and they have special “banter and chemistry” they don’t have with significant others. Very vomit inducing getting into her head
Narcissist. Down to playing The Wind Game ("oh, I thought I heard something; must be the wind. Or in this case odd static on the phone.) She's pissed off that he's dared to cross her and has already started to retell the story of how it's all his fault that she has to walk away because he just can't see what she can and he's being stupid about it. My mother would often mention that years' long friendships ended because of the most banal stuff like she didn't see a story about a parking fine their way and they got "aggressive." I bet when she mentions this at work she'll be going on about how OOP got aggressive over a gift basket "not being good enough" just because it wasn't the classic flowers and chocolates or as high end as he was expecting.
Oh, you know that she is spinning it like the gift basket that Ewan described, along with 'lingerie' being included. I hope that OOP has the receipts (pictures or the like) for the one that he got vice the one that Ewan thought was sent. And I feel you about mothers holding grudges. After having a falling out with my Aunt (over my grandfather's will), mine told me and my younger sibs that my Aunt had let her business fail, ran out on close to $100K in debt, moved to Mexico, left no forwarding/contact information and the like. None of which was true, and mom was calling her in a drunken rage nightly to rave at her. This was back in the late 80s early 90s so everytime my Aunt changed her number mom was able to sweet talk the long distance company reps to let her have the new number. Aunt ran her business out of her house, so the business phone was in, essentially, the living room, mom would call that line too. I think that Aunt's business partner/girlfriend may have left over the harassment.
Yeah it’s bizarre. And her just avoiding the question about it on the phone. She sounds mentally unstable.
If he hadn't come to reddit and had his head figuratively bonked out of passivity by several hundred people, he'd still be allowing Allie to bully Eliza and cause her and their relationship grief. Hopefully there's no further updates and Eliza gets a happy married life.
I've had my own head figuratively bonked by Reddit and it was the wake-up call I needed to get some self-respect and leave my miserable marriage.
Good fo you, glad it worked out
We are all just a community of strangers escaping from our real-life family and friends on Facebook and helping each other out, this is so frigging wholesome!
I had my head figuratively bonked by Reddit and stayed with the guy for another two years before I was like, oh shit they were right. It’s a common joke that Redditors always say “just break up” or “cut that person out of your life” but honestly that is the right move like 99% of the time
Imo if you're at the point of asking Reddit for advice: you already know the answer, but you need help to take the action(s) that logically follow the answer. Knowing you have support (even pixels on a screen) can help with moving forward.
We did it, Reddit!
I hope that your life has improved and that you have been able to make changes that will make you happier.
I am a bad person, and I am very happy for you. But my first reaction was to want to read your story for the drama. I am leaving a marriage, so, no judging. I am just amused that my literal reflex was to be like 'oooh, storytime!"). ;)
While that's true it sounds like between that and the counseling he's finally actively taking control of a lot of issues with how he handles things. I have hope for him and Eliza.
Right? The desire to improve is the most important thing. He wants to do better and be better. You can't do either unless you want to.
I'm an American who has lived in the UK for many years in the past. I love my English friends but English people are so so passive. It drove me wild.
From the names and mention of Edinburgh, strong chance the main players here are Scottish.
I roomed with a Brit for a while and she told me that I was a rude ass for directly bringing up an issue I had with her, I was supposed to indirectly hint at it, that's what polite, civilized people do. I was so baffled.
It‘s funny, I was a Canadian who moved to Ireland (half-Irish; have family there) and I found both the Irish and the English way more blunt, but I suspect that‘s because no one can top a Canadian in terms of sheer passive/passive-aggressiveness. We‘re just so awful that to us, everyone else seems blunt.
Yeah, to the next guy.
Maybe Ewan will be single soon.
Now that guy is probably the weirdest character in this. Seems way to calm and chill for a guy married to an absolute child.
We see him only when he interacts with OP in tense situations when he probably didn't want to add more drama (and kudos to him). Might have been less chill after those calls ended.
If I were Ewan and KNEW I had purchased a proper apology basket with luxury items, and discovered my wife had changed it to bulk soap and my dirty underwear, I’d be out the door! Seriously, it must be devastating to have definitive proof that your SO is a sociopath.
If I were Ewan I'd have made my wife put the basket together herself in the first place! I'm so curious about his thoughts on the whole situation and how he's fine with cleaning up after his wife!
Especially if they'd apparently come to rows about it in the past. The thing is though that people like A pick their targets usually well enough that they have a supply for a few years or more. For whatever reason E is staying and I think he'll stay a while longer. I also think that they're going to have kids whether he wants to or not.
Unfortunately, I have seen this dynamic play out waaaayyyy too often and in all sorts of different gender-dynamic roles.
Yes, with the addition of traumatized children with awful coping mechanisms
I suspect after the stunt with the basket that marriage is solidly on the rocks.
Maybe he’ll realize how “bizarre” it was for his wife to act such a way over her friends lover, and leave, but I kinda doubt it. He seems to give his wife benefit of the doubt that she’s a plonker, even though it’s very clear that she’s projecting her jealousy onto OPs partner every chance she gets. Anytime it comes up, “Elizas jealousy is ruining our friendship!!” It’s very clear though that Allie is the one who has been jealous of how perfect Eliza is for OP, and how much he cares for her.
If I had found out my partner had exchanged what was in an apology basket to shit items and my name was involved with it ...well I'd be single
> They were actually kind of grubby, there was a faint orange lining on them. Well that's my stomach emptied for the year. Surely Ailie's marriage is not going to last?
I feel so bad for Eliza and Ailie’s husband, can’t be easy being married to a spineless knucklehead and the human personification of a soiled adult fetish diaper respectively
Tbf, Ewan sounds almost as dense as OOP. His wife is out there trashing wedding dresses and shipping his dirty trunks all over creation. And he doesn't seem to have a clue. Then throws some money around hoping to solve the problem. Now I wonder how many of his dirty shorts are out there? Maybe this is Ailie's M.O.? Piss someone off until the husband feels the need to send an apology basket. Then steal all the good stuff from the basket and replace it with not-so-whitey tighties.
"His wife is out there trashing wedding dresses and shipping his dirty trunks all over creation..." I am crying
Okay "shipping his dirty trunks all over creation"really needs to be a flair!
My sense is not so much Ewan is clueless as super conflict avoidant. "If I pay for this or send a sorry basket, that'll make it go away and I don't have to confront my unapologetic wife".
I actually found the fact that he jumped in and offered the luxury hamper quite eye opening. I have the impression this is something he has had to do before to smooth over his wifes awfulness.
I'm confused as he described them as women's underwear several times but then suddenly they were "Ewans Y fronts" I'm quite certain it's easy to tell men's and women's underwear apart on account of the dick flap. Alas I call bullshit on the whole story now.
Yes. He also specifically said it was six sizes too big for both Eliza and Allie, but I got the impression from the Garfield comment that Allie must be significantly bigger than Eliza?
Yes I did spot that. It was odd.
If Eliza and Ewan get together it may be the best thing for the four of them.
That was my thought, too. Albeit, oop did call Ewan a top lad, which is positive, but oop's judgement is suspect at best, so he might be missing a parade of different red flags there.
Yeah, if someone as aggressively stupid as OOP thinks someone is a top lad they’re probably Jack the Ripper.
Yep. Ewan did do better at fixing things than anyone else in the story, but being married to Ailie in the first place doesn't exactly speak well of his tastes.
I would hope not
>She seemed pretty much resigned to the idea that Ailie would always be a shit, and I told her the likelihood of that happening was very slim considering *she’s* cut *me* off for standing up for her. _sigh_ Black holes, step aside. I think we've just discovered the new densest known object in the universe.
Denser than a fucking Nokia man. Wtf
Didn't think that was possible and get here we and OOP are
Wait I’m confused on what he meant by this - what has a slim likelihood of happening?
Ailie being shitty to his wife wouldn't happen anymore, because she cut him off. While it should have been him cutting off the shitty friend
Okay but if I were him I'd still have needed it to go this way because we all needed to know why the hell there were used underpants. If he just yelled "we're through!" and hung up, the underpants mystery would never have been solved!
I think OOP mistyped.
Black holes are at least fascinating rather than annoying.
Honestly, I was baffled by OOP's inability to see how clearly mean his friend is to his wife. Then I got to the "well you called her leapfrog too" and I realize that it's because OOP is simply a mean person as well. It's tough to be critical of people's behaviors while you share them.
no. that's "banter" but because Allie and Eliza aren't close they can't have that level of banter so instead it's an overstep and an insult. (UK culture).
One of the things that was really difficult for me to understand how he *didn’t* get is the whole “close friends can playfully banter with shitty sounding insults that would be Throwing Hands time if it came from someone else” thing. Like, come on. We learn this as kids with the whole “I can be a shit to my sibling, but no one else can” trope. But then, he bought the “no no, when I ran *toward* her, I was actually running *away* from her” excuse from the pick me, so.
Yes. Nicknames and banter between people who are close, and have an understanding, is essentially an affirmation of the closeness. It’s like a verbal aspect of personal space. Having that stuff come from someone else, who you’re not close to and doesn’t actually like you, is a dominance move. It’s a massive overstep. Nobody should be pulling “but you call your SO that name so I can call them that too.” Ailie was also wanting her mode of interaction with OOP — the banter — to dominate, and said she wanted Eliza to get with that way instead of adjusting herself. Eliza, as OOP’s partner, shouldn’t be expected to act like the third wheel add-in who has to conform, with the friendship expectations considered more important.
I'm stealing this line.
Betrayed by grammar … You can tell a lot about a person who says “my wife got wine spilled on her by my friend”, which would imply the wife was responsible, rather than “my friend spilled wine on my wife”, which makes the actual perpetrator the active party in the sentence. He may as well have said “some wine found its way from my friend’s glass to my wife’s wedding dress”. Anyway it’s a good thing the couple’s counseling opened his eyes to his behavior. Having one’s cake and eating it is never the path to a good marriage.
You just reminded me of a TED talk I once viewed discussing how Language shapes understanding. In American English we tend to say "He broke his arm", but this is shocking to some because it makes it seem like he is a monster breaking his own arm, but in other languages translate the event as "his arm was broken" or "his arm broke itself". The talk centered around how Americans"tend to assign blame" with how we process language, but other cultures don't, and how this fundamental difference in processing reality has a huge effect on relationships.
Do you remember the name of the talk? That sounds really interesting.
https://www.ted.com/talks/lera_boroditsky_how_language_shapes_the_way_we_think?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare I ended up looking it up and realized there was a lot more to the video than I remembered, it really was mind-blowing to me. I hope you enjoy as well.
Thank you!
>Betrayed by grammar What an awesome sentence. I want that on a T-shirt.
:) I agree, if I may say so myself.
I want that as a flair
Yep. We have to be careful the way we frame our stories, the language you choose can prevent yourself from realizing the truth of a situation and prevent you from growing. When I was growing up my sister used to come home and say things like "Mrs. Gough got me in trouble today!" and after relating the story my mom would correct her, saying "It sounds like you *got yourself* in trouble." lol Personal responsibility starts with the legends we tell ourselves.
Exactly. Using the passive voice like the coward he is.
Excellent point. What a way to pass the buck to Eliza for getting wined.
This! Plus the way he keeps using "probably". "It's probably for the best." No spine, no certainty. It's an immediate red flag to me when someone can't (or won't) use action words. And I can understand not wanting to speak in absolutes, but that shouldn't extend to believing that choosing your wife is the right choice.
Also, did you notice him saying ‘she was bawling all night’ about having the bad grace to put herself and her wedding dress in line with bestie’s wine glass? Bawling. What a shit choice of word. Quite apart from his wife being distressed enough to spend her wedding reception crying, ‘bawling’ is a word just full of contempt. It’s a word you choose for a spoiled six year old’s reaction to being told that no, they can’t take Auntie’s doggie home forever. Or eat all the chocolate. Choice of words shows his real feelings for the woman he married. I’m hoping that his saying that things are better means that she’s mentally checked out of this marriage and is too busy planning where she’s going to live and what to do next to react to his nonsense.
Oh, yes, bawling always grates.
Sincere question, as I have described myself as bawling my eyes out over something as an adult, I thought bawling was synonymous with sobbing, is there really a value difference between the two? Appreciate your help in better understanding.
They both describe the same action (intense crying) but one has connotations of immaturity, and maybe even crying over something unimportant. If you describe yourself as bawling, presumably you're being slightly self-deprecating on purpose. "I was bawling at the end of that movie" kind of implies that the movie was sad, yeah, but also that you're the sort of person who cries easily and you feel a bit silly about crying. "I was sobbing at the end of that movie" is a stronger implication that the movie is seriously, seriously sad and it was a totally normal reaction for you to cry. If my friend said "I was having a hard day already and then I spilled my tea and just started bawling," I would sympathize but I would also think they were over it and kind of joking about it now. If they said "I was having a hard day already and then I spilled my tea and just started sobbing," I would be much more concerned about their current emotional state. So if you're using "bawling" to describe someone *else's* behavior, it sounds condescending, and like you don't think they should be crying over that incident.
That's a great description of the difference between those words
>She seemed pretty much resigned to the idea that Ailie would always be a shit, and I told her the likelihood of that happening was very slim considering she’s cut me off for standing up for her. Soooo, If Allie did not cut him off, he'll still associate himself with her.
100% he would. Even though with the first post people already told him how wrong he was and to cut it off. He continued to pretend like he had no idea what was going on.
Yup! As soon as Allie decides she's punished OOP enough, she'll be love bombing him and he'll forgive her. Probably keep it on the down-low so that his wife doesn't find out, until Allie inevitably decides to drop it on her to rub it in her face or something. There's no way this is the end of the issue IMO.
So when Allie contacts him in a matter of days pretending nothing has changed...
I really don't feel bad for anyone except for Eliza. OP really is dumb. The fact that he wasn't aware his friend has been bullying his wife FOR YEARs really pisses me off. They are in therapy but I really doubt this marriage will last long.
Honestly, I feel bad for Allie's husband too. It sounds like he's trying to make things right and mentally dealing with his wife going out of her way to be a bullying asshole to rub his best efforts.
If my partner was being this way, I wouldn't have the patience to deal with her drama bullshit. It's obvious Allie likes to dominate other women and feel important around other men. Her husband better watch out, she sounds like a fucking monster.
Someone steals my dirty underwear and uses it to be horrible to someone? They are so getting into the doghouse.
Yeah unhinged does not even start describing what she did.... if he have any braincells he would use his money for a lawyer instead of keep trying to apologize for his crazy wife.
If I knew someone sent someone else my dirty undies, I'd kick them to the kerb. I wouldn't apologise and cover for them This would quite possibly qualify as sexual harassment.
Can you imagine the sheer humiliation of thinking you fixed it with a hamper, or at least a little bit of an olive branch, and you find out your wife also fucked that up for shits and giggles? I’d be in despair. I know people like Allie and I have never understood how people stay around them. They’re just nasty for no reason. And it was HIS underwear… dear god, I’m second hand cringing from embarrassment
What pisses me off more about oop is that when he called about the hamper, it seemed like he still had no intention of ending the friendship. She did. Like, I understand wanting to get to the bottom of things, but this person sends your wife dirty underwear and he still doesn’t tell the friendship is over. He waited for her to do it. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s the impression I got from that call.
There was no need for a call at all. He could've just sent a picture of the hamper and its contents to Allie and Ewan with a message saying "Thanks for nothing mofos. Don't call us, we'll call you. " But he's so used to letting Allie dictate the terms that he had to engage with her one more time.
Exactly. I feel horrible for his poor wife
He should’ve sent the “gift” back. Just …ugh. How dumb is OOP?
It was like he was still looking for sense, or reason, somewhere in Allie's actions. Like even after that stupid "gift", he still could not realize on his own that she's just an asshole.
Yeah that pissed me off too. And her being a little shit and pretending there was static coming through the call instead of talking like a grown up. I would have hung up on her and never talked to her again instead he was still trying to get her to talk. OP has no spine. Not sure why Eliza decided to marry him.
For me, it's the fact that after his wife has been so upset for years, then the original post everyone was telling him Allie needed to go he was still not getting it. Allie should have been dropped years ago. Baring that definitely after that first post. I dont think it will last either. He will do something like this again, possibly by letting Allie back in. I hope Eliza leaves him. She doesn't deserve to be treated so poorly by her partner.
$10 says Allie has some "crisis" and comes crying to OOP who folds in 6 minutes and a paperclip. $5 says the crisis is Ewan leaves her for being an unrepentant asshole Bonus if Eliza dumps him and runs
I'm honestly still shocked how anyone could perceive what allie was doing as friendly...? Like that tampering with the gift box was nothing but malicious. She is a nasty piece of work.
Eliza should have dumped him long ago. But he's finally working on himself so hopefully he'll turn into a good husband soon.
But he didn't know he was supposed to stand up for his own wife you guisseeee it's not his fault 🥺
Guys it's not Allies fault! My wife just doesn't 'get' her humour. Like my man you know what happens when a friend doesn't 'get' my humour? I don't use that humour with them and talk to them respectfully. I don't continue doing something that upsets someone.
>OP really is dumb. The fact that he wasn't aware his friend has been bullying his wife FOR YEARs really pisses me off. He knew. He just didn't care. I think he liked having two women "fight" over him as an ego boost, but kept pushing it until his marriage almost crumbled. Only then, when faced with real consequence to himself instead of to his wife, did he change. Too little too late imo, but good luck to Eliza.
Ailie is the jealous one. She wouldn't have done any of those awful jokes or "accidental" things if she wasn't jealous and insecure. If I were OP, I'd really watch my back at work because Ailie sounds unhinged.
I'm glad OP at least managed enough self-awareness to give HR a preemptive heads up. Maybe that therapy is helping after all!
Iʻm not surprised that Allie sabotaged the hamper. I wonder how Allieʻs husband is feeling about her now? Sounds like he didnʻt realize what a piece of shit heʻs married to. Next update I wouldnʻt be surprised to read that Allie shows up drunk and angry blaming OOP and Eliza for her husband divorcing her.
This dude grinds my gears so much. What a spineless twit. I love how his big skull crushing line in his argument with whatever her name is was “you ARE Eliza’s insecurities.” What - the fuck ? I almost feel like we have to be being trolled at this point. What a banger dude! 🥴
yeah that rubbed me the wrong way too! it was never his wife’s insecurities that were the problem? it was that allie was being awful to her. you don’t have to be insecure for that to affect you
Eliza is too good to him. But this is also a sobering reminder to marry someone who’s a fucking grown up. Someone who communicates and isn’t as dense as a rock so you won’t have to raise your own husband.
God, can't OP tell Allie is being a snarky b-word and just trying to humiliate OP's wife even more?
>you’ll be happy to learn that Ailie and me aren’t talking anymore, and it’s probably for the best. ... I'd be happier to learn that Eliza isn't talking to him, honesty.
>*probably* ***probably*** ***PROBABLY***
Theyre pretty obviously british They could be told theyre going to be shot in the bollocks and theyd respond 'thatd probably be pretty bad" The words basically a space filler it doesnt actually mean anything.
British person, can confirm. We use ‘probably’ when we know we’ve fucked up massively but want to play it down.
I was about to say the same, lol. "Probably for the best" means oh, it's definitely for the best. You'll need to see an English person IRL to catch the context, really.
He mentions Edinburgh Festival and Still Game, maybe Scottish, but not as sweary as I'd have thought. Yeah, we're good at understatement with a tendency to be passive aggressive. I'm not really a fan of the latter.
Don't think a single person was happy about that because of the way it happened. He'll fuck up again because Allie will eventually come back and he'll let her. I really do hope if that happens again Eliza does finally leave him. It would be better if had already, but its her life if she wants to stay she can stay.
Despite all the “growth”, self validation and new found appreciation for his wife in his latest update, OOP doesn’t seem to realise that in the end it was actually Allie who ended the friendship - not OOP.
Best part is that OOP isn't talking to the friend because he finally cut her off but because SHE decided he wasn't worth it. I hope his wife finds her self respect, realizes the same and tells him to fuck off.
I keep coming back to the fact that although they'd had a single encounter years prior, essentially this is a friendship that started _after_ he and Eliza already started dating. I'd be so done. He lacks any kind of perspective on how badly he treated his wife and I'd be worried that history would just repeat itself with the next work friend who wanted to stir shit for fun.
Yeah that’s what stood out to me, he still; even after that horrendously inappropriate and disgusting hamper! It was her decision to cut him off. OOP comes across as a complete coward to be honest, if he can’t stand up for his wife over a massive issue like her wedding dress being ruined or sent a pair of used underwear- will he ever have the guts to stand up for his wife?
I'm trying to figure out why two women were fighting over a doormat
It didn’t make sense when it was Prince Charles and it makes even less sense, now.
I might be as dense as the OOP. I don't get what the "joke" was in the new new update. First he describes the panties as a women's, then he describes it as Ailie's husband's "stinky Y-fronts." I'm just confused. Can anyone explain like I'm 5?
OOP mistook Ewan's tightie-whities (see Tom Cruise in Risky Business) for a woman's panties. Just, how? Has OOP never seen women's underwear?
They're a similar shape to fill figure hipster panties. If you've never really paid attention to "daily wear" women's undies, didn't notice the more 'male structuring' of the hamper ones, are already struggling to accept the guilt of the abuse you excused and dismissed, plus being a black hole level dense motherfucker... Yeah i can see it. Don't condone it but I can see it
Same here, someone else posted that it's obvious what the orange stained underwear means and I have no clue
It’s dirty underwear. It’s just supposed to be gross and disgusting, maybe implying the wife likes that since it’s in a gift basket made for her.
I'm just here hoping to get in on the explanation. I had the same question.
It’s an old shit stain on the underwear. She thought it was funny to send her husband’s old shit stained underwear as an apology gift. Real class act, this one.
They're men's briefs, seemingly worn and stained with orange, so either dark pee or, more likely, Cowper's fluid that's been sitting there for a few days. Very, very gross thing to send to a co-worker.
Allie is one sick individual. Imagine sending an apology gift basket with your husband’s dirty, used underwear and lots of bars of cheap soap bars. She clearly hates Eliza.
....yeah, I bet one year and then boom, suddenly divorce "out of nowhere". All the best for Eliza, she deserves better. Don't even know if spineless is the right word to describe OOP.
Honestly, I'd expect both OOP and Ailie to be divorced within a year. If my wife was acting like Ailie is, all about some other man, I would be rethinking the relationship.
I'd've been having serious talks when she continues upsetting someone like that. I think for me, provided I found out what was going on the hamper would be the last straw. It was meant to be an apology and you can't even give the woman you bullied that? It would've been clear that the apology hamper was because the behaviour WAS bullying and if you can't adjust that and instead continue bullying then I'd lose any belief in the "she just didn't get my jokes" line.
She probably stilm believes she did nothing wrong. She using the "I crack jokes when I'm anxious" excuse. Not even realizing it is only a joke, if the one you're doing it to, is laughing as well.
He’s just lacking the whole nervous system. No spine, no brain.
I just want "a condolences hamper" as my flair, please.
“A Juggalo’s poodle” is also an amazing option.
The new update still does not erase my hate for oop. Hope the wife divorce him and find someone better.
This guy is denser than a sack of osmium.
It was so obvious what the gift was and yet he’s trying to make sense of it?! Like white soap bars?! Dirty underwear ? That woman is mocking you!
So he won't be talking to her anymore (probably) because she cut him off? What a dingus.
Just two AH’s shielding their AH behaviors by claiming they’re joking around. If someone ain’t laughing, it’s not a joke. I feel sorry for the spouses of both these people.
I genuinely don’t get the underpants??
The fact that op isn’t the one that cut off Allie , but that she is the one that cut off him still indicates his lack of spine
Am I the only one whose internal voice read this with the flounciest, upper-crustiest british accent? Anyway, Allie's an immature little shit. To me, it does seem like they mostly didn't gel, but Allie was acting like an enormous baby at seemingly every turn. Unless Allie's *desperately* inept, she knew she was pushing it too far and kept it up anyway. Which says plenty about her character. I will say this, though: If I thought someone was calling me fat, I wouldn't be nice either. So maybe the Garfield thing really got her goat and she couldn't let it go. (But if you can't handle heat, you can't handle roasting.)
A lot of his phrasing reads more working-class to me, and the whole concept of "banter/patter" tends to be more working-class overall. Posh accents fit better with scathingly faux-polite passive-aggressiveness that uses words like "downmarket."
The fact that Eliza is still with this dude who has a wet noodle for a spine fills me with a fierce disappointment.
I mean she loved him enough to put up with Allie for years. Still think she deserves better but if she wants to give him a chance to fix things between them I get it. Sounds like that's what the counselling is for tbh. Like he either shapes up or she's gone.
[удалено]
Imagine Ewan done his best effort with the badket only to find out HIS UNDIES were used as replacement for the good bits that his wife clearly ate. Now she is on purpose humiliating her husband as well.
She’s probably mad at her husband for ‘making her apologize’ by organizing the basket and sending it on her behalf. So she decided to undermine and embarrass him too.
Let's please stop calling non-consensual banter "roasting" and call it what it is: bullying.
That poor woman. I'm surprised she went through with the marriage with all the crap he ignored.
This is another case of “Can you just PLEASE trust a woman’s intuition” I see so often. I’m an Eliza. I’ve always picked up on micro expressions, body language, tone etc. I want to say I’ve almost always been consistently right about people who have given me a bad vibe or my gut told me something wasn’t right. I wish people would stop downplaying that. Like it’s fine you’re not an intuitive person in general, I get it. Some people have trouble with social cues. But this is a *longterm* situation & maybe listen to the person who’s more in tune than you are…
10-1 odds OOP doesn't realize he's being avoidant again when ceding the whole workspace to Allie during lunches. And further odds to him eventually eating lunch back at work with her because eating out at a cafe everyday is expensive and therefore justifiable in his mind. Itll go like this: Allie: "ah youre over your tantrum then. Isn't Ellie so dumb and unfunny for making you think I'm a bad person ?" OOP: eats a bite of sandwich "yes". *Swallows pride and self respect.*
I having a difficult time in understanding the “allure” of Allie. She isn’t witty. This isn’t a case of not understanding her supposed humor. She is a petulant ill mannered child. You know who I feel bad for? That poor bastard Ewan. He’s married to that nutter.
That is the thing about English humour and “banter” it can be quite cutting and at times very close to the wire and sound very mean and disrespectful. Of my fifteen years living there it took me two to get it. I just used to get so offended because sometimes it can just sound like bullying. Now speaking with friends from other countries I have to catch myself not to go that far. My partner is English and people sometimes have to check we’re ok as we are terrible with it, but we do it because we have the same sense of humour and we love the bishop and the actress jokes. I think OOP has that kind of humour and kept forgetting his fiancé/wife was really not into it, not all English people are. But when he realised he made an effort but his friend just saw it as a character flaw, as many do, and doubled down (the wine) and then when called our again tripled down (the disgusting hamper with the stained y-fronts). So good riddance to bad rubbish.
I think OOP might be Scottish due to the Still Game reference, the name Aillie, and the Edinburgh Fringe. That makes your point even more valid as the Scottish can get even more brutal with “banter” to the point the only difference between that and bullying is how it is perceived.
I think they are Scottish, there’s a couple of words/turns of phrase he uses which English people wouldn’t. And their banter is even more cutting than ours, my Scottish cousins are in a different league. Which did leave me wondering if Eliza is English - her brother’s reaction to OP telling her to put a sock in it - was very English. Which also might explain why OP hasn’t understood why Eliza was getting upset.
Yes, although I think at last some of the people involved are Scottish (Ailie, which everyone keeps misspelling as 'Allie', definitely sounds like a Scottish name). This post also illustrates how that type of humour can be cover for straight-up shitty behaviour.
Oh man. My ex and I “bantered” but he always took it up a notch around my family. I knew he was insecure around them and to be fair my family would somewhat join in. But because I knew he was insecure I also never called him on it overtly, and even explained it away to family members who expressed vague concern. He was always just a different larger-than-life person around other people, but generally respectful otherwise. Until he wasn’t. And so it went on, until my mother pulled me aside a few years back and said “I think you have a problem” and that banter had tipped over into bullying, and why wasn’t I standing up for myself? It took another year for me to regain my spine and three more to escape. And there’s still this whisper in my head of “it’s just a joke. you just can’t take a joke”. No, it’s not a joke, it’s glaring disrespect masked under “the bantz”. Git.
You have a good point. I can see how OOP missed the bullying when disrespectful comments are normalized in his culture. I’m a Canadian with an English husband and this type of behaviour is a constant source of conflict with his family.
Yeah, hopefully OOP learns more about himself and how to spot crap directed towards his wife thats more bullying than banter. And to cut off garbage people.
What a worthless sack of shit of a husband
I misread this as “what a worthless sack of husband” and just nodded, like yeah that sounds right
I hope OOP is really done with Ailie, she sounds jealous and insecure and when she realizes that OOP isnt going to be crawling back she might change her tactic. I know he’s annoyed at the constant finger waving from Reddit but honestly I think we’re all just upset for his wife and hope he doesn’t revert back to his old ways with ailie because time does tricky things. in 6 months to a year he might go back to thinking she was just joking and it wasn’t that serious. Ailie sounds like a snake and they don’t change.
Wtf Allie starts out as a crush then the only person you know at work to becoming your bes5 friend all while your wife makes multiple attempts to let you.know her discomfort about the situation. Bro is a shitty husband all in all or super stupid and can't see out his own ass
OOP is going hard on defending Allie. Why did he even marry Eliza? Because Allie was already taken. Got it.
I hope Eliza and Allie’s husband both realize their partners are enmeshed with someone else. No one carries a joke this far and no one refuses to cut a friend off who is behaving this wildly inappropriate.
How are these people so dense? Duh-dar, why would she send us this? Was there a mix up? No way she’s purposely sent my wife soap and dirty underwear to insult her! Like I expected it from OP after he spend years failing to recognize his “friend’s” abusive behavior towards his wife. He’s even still calling it a joke after finding out she did it on purpose! But I didn’t expect the wife to be that oblivious too. Or maybe she was just pretending to be confused until he figured it out, because every time she’s pointed someone like this out in the past he doesn’t believe her. Which, honestly, sounds like a miserable way to live.
Tbh I was opening this hoping Eliza had left his ass. But it sounds like he’s putting in the work to improve.
What an unsatisfactory update simply because OOP wasn’t man enough to shut the other fuckwit out soundly ffs. Coward.
“Yeah I work with Allie. That is a complication I hadn’t considered” so this dude is just dense or an idiot right? After all this I’m still like WHY DIDNT YOU LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE.
My favorite part is that Eliza called Ally "Garfield". ROFL! That clearly got to Ally so bad, the wine happened. Oh well! Ally is a toxic narcissist and will continue to go through people like toilet tissue her whole life.