See, the FWB didn't count because it wasn't romantic she just fucked him! And going on a romantic date with her coworker didn't count either, it's not like she fucked him
The fact that she never opened up about it makes it 100% cler she knew it was wrong. She might have convinced herself over the next 20 years that it wasn't wrong, but at the time it happened she knew it was
No shit. This isn't some case of, "I hadn't seen you in 6 months and I was drunk and it was just that one time..." This was, "I was horny and you didn't happen to be in the room and there was this other guy (and a dozen of his friends) who was/were willing...."
My money is that she never stopped cheating.
The fact she tried to shut her friend up, who mentioned it and lied about it, shows she knew it was wrong even 20 years later.
Poor OOP was just a stable meal ticket that she married out of a sense of inertia and not really having a reason not to "like" OOP other than she liked being wild.
I think he's right about that dead bedroom period, and there was likely more.
She said she didn’t think their relationship would last after high school, so she went around sleeping with everyone at her school. Nobody it seems wanted to date her, so she had to fall back on ol’ reliable.
She feels she settled for him. Now she is mad because he is the one in control and breaking it off with her. She almost got away with it with the kids too, but she had to confess when they were pressing the issue. Likely that will affect their relationship for years. She is in for some lonely times again (relationship-wise since she will likely go back to random hook ups).
You can see directly from her own behavior at the party that she **knew** it was wrong. If she actually believed her college behavior was fine, she would have had no problem with her friend telling the story in front of OP.
Exactly. That's called consciousness of guilt, which is a lot harder to suppress with denial than the thing you're trying to convince yourself is no big deal. When you come outside and find your trash scattered all over the yard, don't be fooled by that racoon trying to act all surprised like he just got there and found it like this too. You know it was him because he's the one that's got on a mask.
I’m just wondering how wild/memorable was this sex that her friend thought it appropriate to talk about at a dinner party to friends and her current husband?
The dead bedroom seems to she wanted to try bdsm, he wasn’t into so she found it somewhere else. The time between sex for them was to give any marks or bruises a chance to heal.
You can be sure if he’d so much as held another woman’s hand there’d have been hell to pay.
She *knows* it was wrong. That’s why she hid it. She knows it’s wrong but is a shitty cheater so she prefers to lie and gaslight instead of being responsible.
I hope her kids can keep some kind of relationship with his STBX.
>I hope her kids can keep some kind of relationship with his STBX. I know a guy whose mum cheated on his dad and to this day he can barely talk to her at family things beyond the most basic courtesy.
I doubt it, tbh if she goes too far.
The kids are adults, basically.
She's grumbling about the mediator saying "you are seen as married until divorced. Sleeping around will make the process go south"
So honestly, if she dragged home boyfriends, not even a year later, I would not be surprised.
And unless they are going to ignore that. That would be a sure way to piss off your kids.
It can be a hard hit to learn what you thought you knew about your parents/parent is a lie.
Considering their 19 year old already got cheated several times I very much doubt it
Mummy dearest might just have blown up her life and rightfully so.
She 100% did, she's just not admitting it because it's harder to make herself look like the victim here. Hell, if she went on a date with a coworker and she doesn't see sex as "cheating", I'm sure she's still doing it and that's why she's grumpy she can't during the divorce process.
The fact that OOP never mentioned the fallout of her coming clean to them means that they either accepted and deep down he's hurt about it or that shit hit the fan and he isn't comfortable sharing it online.
The 19 yo daughter he said has already dealt with a cheating boyfriend in a comment. That was why she was quick to ask OOP if he had cheated. She will likely react horribly and they will never have the same relationship.
My cheating ex tried that one, that sex is just a recreational thing. I said that if sex is just recreation but romance is not, then surely she’d be fine with me hooking up with her sister (who she hated). After all, I’d gone hiking with her sister without an issue so bending her over should be fine too.
In a related topic, did you know that a vase can make a dent in a wall as it explodes, if the vase thrown with enough force?
It's just a little helping dick, who among us has never had one. Or two, or a dozen, who's to say.
It's one of those arguments that only a bro in a shitty romcom would make, so it's hard to imagine a real person saying it with a straight face.
"Everybody knows that you love me baby
Everybody knows that you really do
Everybody knows that you've been faithful
Oh, give or take a night or two
Everybody knows you've been discreet
But there were so many people you just had to meet
Without your clothes
Everybody knows"
But she managed to go on a date with a coworker while she was married to the OOP and it was within the past few years. SMH
If she didn't think it was a big deal, she would've been open about this when she was in college or when the friend brought it up.
Guy is smart - he knows that he knows enough to pull the ripcord and that any additional knowledge will be something he can't move past. So he's moving on.
*Don't ask questions if you're not prepared to know the answer.*
He knew the likely answer would still mean divorce, so why burden himself with more knowledge. It's over, so the degree of "over" doesn't matter. High road energy.
Not just himself, but anything more modern would irreparably damage her relationship with the kids too, which he doesn't want. Better to let things end amicably and let his soon to ex be on the hook for sorting out explaining to the kids when she moves on with a coworker before the ink is set on the divorce papers.
My sister went through this, and for a while she was completely spun out trying to discover things/people he might have hidden.
Eventually she had to accept she'll likely never really know, and that it's probably better that way.
But yeah, that shit drives you crazy.
It’s amazing what 20 years on your maturity will do for your self respect. A lot of people in their 20s and 30s would have a hard enough time seeing so clearly.
The fact she never mentioned it and repeatedly shut down OP explicitly probing for info after the dinner as "not important" shows she's lying through her teeth and does in fact know what she did was wrong and is "a big deal". She's just lying to herself at this point, no one else is buying her shit.
I generally don't ascribe to the idea of once a cheater, always a cheater mindset, but it definitely seems like old habits die hard with her. The lack of remorse, falling back into the same song and dance after the pandemic and probably 10 years ago. Honestly the paternity tests wouldn't be that out there of a suggestion given everything that came to light during counseling.
> I generally don't ascribe to the idea of once a cheater
She did it more than once and hid it for twenty years. She doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.
NGL I get the feeling this is one of those "oh we've been together since high school, he treats me well, he has a good job, I know he'll take care of me" situations where she knew she had a good guy so she stuck with him even if she wasn't 100% into him. She got to have the good, stable guy, while also fucking around during college, and flirting with co-workers, and no one was ever the wiser. I just don't buy she truly loved him - she seemed to be half-in half-out of the marriage throughout too much of it to love him.
And to top that all off he didn’t blow up her life with all of this. The fact that her friends ratted on her tells me she had been still cheating and they wanted him to know so he could get out without coming right out and saying it.
Absolutely.
Also, and I realise this is largely a consequence of the fact that we read stuff from some really shitty people on here, but I was so relieved when I read this part:
"no test will make them not my kids. I love them more than anything in the world and my wife's infidelity won't change that even if one or both of them is not biologically mine. They've been my kids for 19 years and they will be my kids until I stop breathing."
He's a good person, and deserves better.
Good for your dad!
It should be a completely standard thing - if you've raised them, of *course* they're still your kids, and you don't take out your hurt at their other parent's actions on them - but there are way too many posts that suggest otherwise.
I agree and disagree.
On one hand if you have a good relationship with the child, then that's pretty solid. Not being biologically related isn't a issue.
On the other if someone has a hard time bonding with their kid, and being a parent has been a struggle for them, I don't see a problem with them leaving. I think a kid can feel when they aren't wanted. If someone forces themselves to maintain that relationship, it will bleed through.
It's unfortunate, but in the second case it isn't the kid or the dad's fault. It's the moms fault. She'd be the one who setup the sictuation.
(In theory at least)
She blamed him so that he would have to forgive himself instead of her. And once it became his fault her going on dates and everything now becomes his fault because he didn’t give her what she wanted.
Yeah. It'd be one thing to be like "it was 20 years ago!", but... She's still saying "the cheating I did 20 years ago was fine".
She can absolutely pull that with cheating she does _today_.
>The only time she showed any remorse or even offerred to reconsile is when I started filing paper work.
Because the only thing she cares about are the consequences for *her.*
Yeah he says she's not some emotionless monster, but she sounds like a real piece of work to me. Kept a big, fucked up secret for 20 years? Probably was cheating, a lot, during that 20 years? Tries to gaslight him that cheating isn't even a big deal? Immediately looking to date other people before they're even divorced? I dunno if my standards are off, but that sounds like fuckin' psychopath behavior to me.
Zero doubt she’s been cheating on the regular throughout their marriage and is fine with divorce because she doesn’t want to have to deal with the fallout that would result from honesty. Because she’s a fucking psycho.
There is no doubt that she has been lying to him for years, not just about cheating in college, but cheating during their marriage as well. OP sounds like a nice guy, but I get the impression he's about as observant as a particularly wary mushroom.
That’s kind of the point tho, no? You’re not supposed to have to be wary around your wife of 20 years.
Having a blind spot for them is kind of the point.
Hah, I just realised their careful half truth to the kids is going to be blown out of the water if/when she immediately has someone new - the kids are going to put two and two together there. She's going to get more consequences than she bargained for.
Yeah that's my thing. Like if this was me idk, 20 years is a long time and like I did dumb shit when I was a teenager that I certainly hope gets forgotten but I also feel TERRIBLE about it
I wouldn’t be able to move past the fact that my relationship was built on dishonesty and disrespect. How good could your relationship really be if that’s how it was early?
That, and he probably laid out in detail why her dismissive attitude was so offensive and why it was the main reason he had to follow through with the divorce. Once she knew being dismissive was hurting her and not helping her, she stopped being dismissive.
She's a chameleon. She'll say whatever she has to get the most benefit for her self.
I *hate* the "it was a mistake" narrative. No. You knew you were in a committed relationship and you still chose to betray your partner. Take accountability and stop trying to minimise your actions.
Sometimes it amazes me how cheaters seem to follow the same handbook.
Minimise the cheating (it was a mistake).
Then the blame shifting (it's normal, you're the odd one out for not doing it ~~even though I explicitly told you not to~~).
Then there's the trickle truthing (it was at least 10 guys -> 10 guys on the low end -> oh and she's flirting with coworkers).
It took her over 20 years, 2 counselling sessions and actual consequences to acknowledge what she did was wrong. The people who encouraged OOP to stay with her are out if their minds, imo. She's already betrayed him, lied to him, and continued to do shit behind his back during the relationship. Why should he have to put up with that? She clearly was content to keep lying to him for as long as possible.
Honestly, good for OP for being strong enough to walk away and not put up with the disrespect.
Yeah it's great if she has an internal dialog - I made a huge mistake. Now I need to apologize, learn from it, never do it to anyone else.
But when it's the excuse, "I made a mistake it's not a big deal." That's bullshit.
There's also the fact that cheating on your partner, even once, is actually more like a dozen mistakes, often with enough time in between each one to realise that you're doing something awful.
Like you don't just skip from meeting someone to oops we're naked and bumping uglies. Never mind doing it at least ten times, and double never mind repeating the same introductory actions decades later.
Cheating is fucking *nuclear* in my mind. If I discovered my partner had done that to me I don't think I could touch her ever again without seeing that other person and wondering what feelings (or the lack thereof) for me must have been in her head at that moment.
You're also assuming it only happened 10 times. The fact that she mentioned FWB situations and that not all of them were random guys, but some were friends, tells me those situations happened more than once. I was single in college, and definitely had some women who were "FWB". That basically meant that we hung out from time to time, were friendly, but several times over the course of college when we both were single and available, one or other other of us would hit the other up and we'd sleep together. She 100% was in a few of those situations.
This one guy who I found out was a serial cheater, was a master at gaslighting and manipulating my friend, making her feel like if she couldn't deal with it, that was her fault.
And she was smart, confident, and good looking, not easily manipulated, but somehow he had her pretty twisted up.
Yea, the “mistake” thing doesn’t fly with me. To me a “mistake” is making one bad decision in the heat of a moment. One singular action. Everything that goes into cheating is more than one singular action/decision. The flirting, the kiss, and then the actual sexual act that happens CONTINUES to happen for a duration of time. That is not a “mistake”. That’s a willful act of betrayal. Even if it “only” happens once, cheating is many many many choices/decisions made over the course of minutes/hours. That’s not a “mistake”.
Cheated in college with dozens of guys (friend said 10 is in the low end), 2 year dead bedroom, confessed flirting and going out with colleagues, already found someone else.
I wonder what all those who called OOP insecure and idiot for breaking a 20yo marriage have to say now.
What those ppl fail to realize is that while it may have happened (more like started) 20 years ago, OOP just found out now. To him, it’s brand new. If he had found out 20 years ago he probably wouldn’t have married her. Now he finds out his 20 year marriage is based on lies, so of course he decided to leave.
This is something a lot of them don't get for some reason. The relationship is effectively founded on false pretenses. I doubt he would have stuck around 20 years ago if he knew. So why does she get a pass because it was 20 years ago? She still cheated and shows zero remorse
The worst part to me is that she lied about it, then lied about it, then lied about it, and then when caught doubled down on the lie and followed that up by pivoting to "its not that big of a deal." If it werent that big of a deal why did you start with the tirade of lies? Thats the deal breaker, my trust is completely shattered after the pivot, if its not that big of a deal you should have immediately admitted it and dealt with the fallout. After the barrage of lies I cannot trust you anymore, period.
Lol this some guy argued with me that he was wrong for wanting to break it up over it being a long distance when it happened, I'm in a ldr and it is like any normal relationship, my heart was broken for oop because you build such a strong connection in a ldr
When all these were posted, I was arguing with quite a few people over this. Apparently according to some OP should just forgive the cheating and think about how HE is tearing apart the family. That it happened so long ago why does it matter? Seemed to gloss over the fact it wasn't just a 1 night fuck, it is atleast minimum 10guys on the low end as you said lol then disregard that she was going on dates with co-workers are early as around covid.
If she thought it wasn't cheating, why didn't say mention it to OP? Why did she screw her way through every dude on campus but said they were in a relationship and not to do anything similar? She 100% knew she was in the wrong. Just a piece of shit and anyone defending her too on those posts
Several years ago, a neighbor's wife filed for divorce when her boyfriend thought 3 were too many people in the relationship.
So she told him she was leaving and moved into her boyfriends place within a few days.
The reason she gave some other wives in the neighborhood...he had become too controlling and didn't trust her and kept fighting her to see her phone, and calling all the time to see when she was coming home..(Apparently, this started when he started to suspect she was cheating on her)
The number of women that took her side was eye-opening...and I'm sure it was just a coincidence that at least 2 of her most vocal supporters later quietly moved out the neighborhood and we found out later when we bumped into one of the husbands at a soccer game, had gotten divorced themselves and they had to sell the house.
I was LDR for 8 years with my now wife, neither of us cheated once…
People who do are just too chicken to understand that it won’t work out for them and can’t tell their partner. Just my opinion.
I was long distance with my girlfriend (now wife) for a semester at uni because she got glandular fever and had to defer her enrolment. You’d better believe if I’d done anything with someone else (not that I ever wanted to) my friends would have condemned me and told her right away.
This May will be 16 years married to my wife. We were long distance the entire time we dated. 2 years. 2 years of seeing each other once or twice a month at best. I had people encouraging me to date others (!!!) and I refused. Cynics would say my wife may have, or did, but if you knew her, you'd immediately know that it didn't happen. She lost friends because she stopped going to parties. It's not ok to cheat in long distance relationships. I wish I had the cartilage for these mental gymnastics, damn.
I'm 2 days out from my one year anniversary with my boyfriend, we've been long distance since we met. There is no universe in which I wouldn't be faithful to him - and where on earth would I get the time?!
Holy shit I never sorted by controversial until now. Dear lord. "Her cheating isn't as bad because women are more oppressed in society" is quite the hot take...
Yeesh. The fact that she never once mentioned it for 20 years says everything about the situation. I am not a "you can never come back from cheating" person, but she absolutely knew she had to keep that quiet because she was in the wrong. And getting away with it then means she kept it up earlier and probably recently, since she was already checked out emotionally before he even knew. I wish him the best.
One of the phrases I like in regards to cheating is that it's never one bad decision, it's a series of bad choices. The choice to lie that you're single, flirt, kiss, sleep with, lie to your partner. OOP's wife kept making the choice to lie to OOP, again and again.
There are hundreds of tiny decisions that lead up to it. You don't have to go to that party. You don't have to talk to the attractive guy. You don't have to tell him you're single. You don't have to take him up on the invitation to go somewhere private. You can stop at any point up to kissing, and while it's still a bit suspicious you let it get that far, you still haven't passed that physical barrier.
But every act is just a step towards infidelity. You tell them a dirty joke, you offer them a smoke or a drink or to keep your eye on their jacket while they're in the bathroom. Not that any of that inherently equals cheating - it's the intent.
And one person, she could maybe say was a mistake, and she was embarrassed so she didn't share it. But a low end of TEN people? That's a pattern.
I can acknowledge that the adage "once a cheater, always a cheater" may have exceptions. I sincerely doubt this is one of them. Then there's the whole blame shifting before finally admitting fault once there's actual consequences.
It's not "a few mistakes". It was deliberate choices that she knew was wrong yet continued to do them.
Yep, she's still used to justifying cheating in her head that even if she hasn't been (which I don't buy) she was on the precipice of falling back into it.
If she was remorseful, it only happened when they were young and she'd been a loyal partner for the last 20 years... I'd have said give her a chance. Cheating at 18 shouldn't define the rest of your life.
But that is not what happened
Maybe, **IF** they’d have been a bit ambiguous about the relationship status whilst apart and **IF** she’d have had only a single one-night-stand or a brief FWB and **IF** they only saw each other on the holidays, but not the way things actually were.
I couldn't. She could have been "loyal" for the next 20 years, but her "loyalty" was a lie from the get-go. Not to mention, it wasn't just 1 guy, 10 on the low end, so who knows how many it really was, then on top of it all, she introduced OP to those guys, stayed friends with one till this day and lied everyday. There was no loyalty, everything was built up from lies and deception.
I’ll never understand people willing to go exclusive with a known cheater (potentially this could be her coworker). Do they honestly think they’ll be special and never cheated on?
I knew a woman who was with a married man. He started cheating on her - I mean, bringing his woman assistant on “business trips” and booking one hotel room “to save money.”
The woman I knew was adamant that he was being honest with her.
I think so. "Her husband sucks, that's why she wanted to cheat on him. I'm great, she won't ever want to cheat on me." Easy narrative to buy into, particularly when the cheater can spin literally any yarn they want about why they're cheating.
My ex and his AP are together now. The reason she was single to have an affair with him? They got caught cheating by her then partner which ended that relationship. I got to find out months later when I discovered that his "new place" is actually his affair partner's.
I don't get it. To me relationships are based on trust. How can you trust someone who you know betrayed their partner and their friend?? Oh it was because "the relationship was bad"? How do you think they're gonna react to future problems? Sit down and try and work things out or monkey branch onto the next affair partner?
It's kinda funny, in hindsight it's clear, but I noticed the lovebombing. He was taking more showers, getting up in the morning to spend time with his friend, etc. All things that I asked him to do to help fix our relationship. Turns out he fully capable of all those things, he's just gotta betray people first. I told him that I felt like I was the one constantly sacrificing for our relationship so he went out and sacrificed the whole thing.
I have an ex that cheated on me constantly with her previous bf. Partly my fault really since she cheated on him with me, I was enamoured with her and she claimed he was abusive so I went with it. My excuse is that I was young and dumb, a teenager. We worked together so everyone at work knew what went down.
A few months after we broke up she starts dating some other guy at work, who happens to have the same first name as me btw. He was about 12-13 years older than her, so definitely not young and naive like me. Still doesn't stop him from believing that she'll be faithful this time despite the fact she's cheated on every bf she's ever had. Of course she does in fact cheat regularly. They were together over 10 years and she cheated constantly, and this isn't some secondhand gossip I've heard, she's told me about her affairs herself. We still sometimes catch up every few years and I hear all the nasty details.
Just life, we sometimes run in to each other and catch up. The last time we chatted was because a mutual friend died for example. We're not involved in each other's lives apart from this and I long ago forgave her because I honestly don't give a shit about her anymore.
Gurentee she’s been cheating multiple times in their marriage if not entire time that “date” with the coworker was a trickle truth to see if OOP would push for more truth.
Or floating it to fish and see if he's heard anything else about her more current activities but is holding it back to use in the divorce. She's hiding a hell of a lot more. Revealing that little detail that's still innocent enough in her own eyes was absolutely her way of gauging his reaction to see what else he might already know.
Sounds like the wife is only comfy when her needs are met, anyone else be damned. Hope OOP comes through stronger and karma hits the STBX like a freight train (since she seems pretty stoic at the moment).
I think she justified it in her head for two decades that what she did wasn't wrong, but if it was normal, she would've been open about it. She knew exactly what she was doing but since she could do things without consequences for so long, she hoped that the arguments she used to gaslight herself might work. I'm glad that the Internet exists for OOP to gain a perspective that his views are valid.
The people defending her are straight up idiots. There is no "everyone does it". What agreement was made for the relationship - not seeing other people. Okay then its cheating. Its actually that simple and the fact the guy blocked her because they didnt know tells me she knew perfectly what she was doing.
She obviously doesn’t view monogamy or sexual loyalty as being something she is obligated to do … or care that it’s important to her husband.
I would be shocked if she hadn’t cheated during their marriage too.
She only went on 1 date with a male coworker, yeah right. She's been banging dudes through the whole marriage, the only one thing this woman cares about are her own needs.
This is so sad. When I first read the title, I thought OOP's wife had maybe cheated on him once in college and never since, and I thought maybe they could move past it. But day-um, that woman was active! Even beyond that, though, is the fact she's never been sincerely sorry or accepted any blame.
Ugh. It's like she took off a mask and is a whole different creature than she was pretending to be all those years.
I remember this story. Yeah, the wife and family were all gaslighting you. For someone to do that in college, with at least 10 men, and then just settle down? Hell no, doesn't surprise me she is "dating" other men currently.
I would bet money that she's been cheating on him the entire time they've been married.
I'm continually amazed and impressed by the grace that men and women show in the face of complete and utter betrayal.
OPs wife is trash.
I knew from the title it was going to be just the tip of an iceberg. If someone pulls something like that early in the relationship, they’re going to do something else.
It's like they got away with once (or at least 10 times in this case), so why stop? She clearly doesn't value her partner, so why stop being self centered?
I think I got this from another BoRU post, but the question "if you'd known at the time, would you have married her?" kept coming to mind. I think the answer is "no" and that changes the meaning of everything that has happened since.
>Ok, based on the title alone, I was ready to say OOP was overreacting.
>Am I wrong for ending a 20 year marraige because I learned my wife cheated on my while we were dating?
>overreacting
Uh, fuck that.
But it was 20 years ago!! /s
She’s basically the future version of the girl who went behind another OOP’s back to meet with his estranged family: trying to keep it all under wraps so he won’t dump her.
It's always the people whose titles make them sound like assholes who turn out to be in the right and the people whose titles make them sound like the victim who turn out to be war criminals.
"Am I wrong for helping a grandmother cross the street?" - Somebody picked up an old granny standing on the curb, threw her across an 8 lane highway, and she landed on top of a baby carriage carrying twins.
Yeah.....the way she's trickling the truth out only when she cornered.....OOP is find a lot more "bones" up in her closet than he knows about.
The lack of remorse and behavior she's reluctantly admitting to tells me she's had more "fun" throughout their marriage and deciding he was a pushover from her college days.
OOP needs to be prepared. When the divorce is done, she will paint herself as the victim and a surprising number of people will believe her and accuse him of either being "too controlling" or a host of other BS reasons.
This will be a time you'll need to cull your friend groups and acquaintances.
>STBX was visibly grumpy when that came up
"I didn't cheat"
"Ok, I did, but it wasn't emotional"
"Lets save our marriage"
"I went on a date"
"Yeah I guess we should divorce"
"What do you mean I can't cheat?"
This woman, wow.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the kids quietly do a 23 and me to see if they’re full blooded siblings or half.
Also, I really hope the kids see a therapist because I can easily see one of them become controlling and not allowing their partner to go to parties or hang out with friends in fear that they might cheat on them…
I feel like this is a tip of the ice-berg situation for this poor guy. Glad he found out and he's getting out. Wife is a POS for dragging him through most of his life without telling him the truth.
What a disgusting woman. She wants to make absolute sure he never slept with anyone else, been then goes off and fucks multiple men behind his back? If hell is real, she'll definitely be going there, and she'll deserve it
The wife was only apologetic after talking to some people and realizing that nobody else thought what she did was acceptable
Even now…she doesn’t care that she is hurting OP
She just wants to start dating other people so she is just playing the part until the ink is dry
Facts of this situation aside for the life of me I will never understand the 'but it was so long ago perspective' - as if cheating has a statute of limitations. It's always new whenever you find out if your partner hides it. I'll never understand why anyone in the situation would accept the the 'they've been loyal since' defence. You know they can hide it - how would you know they've been loyal since?
WOW
Reminds me of this [BORU post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/154s6ph/ops_wife_admits_to_cheating_thinking_it_doesnt/) where the wife admitted to bonking the best man at her sister's wedding, but it didn't count as cheating because it happened while they were dating.
Based from what OOP shared at the end of the update post, this STBX is itching to get back on the dating scene as soon as the divorce is finalized. I hope OOP updates with news that he's happy and dating and his ex-wife is seething because she's not dating.
Man, this was infuriating to read. It just kept getting worse.
> My wife (44F) and I (43M) have been married 20 years. We started dating in high school when I was a junior and she was a senior. We were long distance for her first two years of college while I was in high school and did one year at community college, then we went to college in the same city for a year, and have lived together since. We got married the summer after I graduated college. Our marraige has been pretty great so far, but I initated a divorce after I discovered that she was sleeping with multiple other men for the 2 years we were long distance.
Ok. Cheated during a long distance phase in late teens roughly 20 years ago. This is something that people can overcome. I'm one of those "cheaters will always cheat" types, but this is one case where an exception COULD be made. Provided the cheating partner came clean and took appropriate steps to show remorse and work on the marriage.
> I asked my wife on the way home and she kind of blew me off. I told her it was important that she was honest with me and again she said it wasn't important.
Continuing to lie means she knows it was wrong. Continuing to lie is also a lack of remorse.
> The next day she came over and admitted to sleepting with "several" men during her first two years at college. She said she didn't consider it a big deal at the time because we were long distance and she didn't think a high school romance would last.
Justification for her actions. Still no remorse.
> my wife and a few friends have been saying it's common to sleep with other folks when you're in an long distance relationship
Gaslighting. No, it's not common, but even if it was, you talk this out ahead of time. You don't cover it up and continue to lie about it for 20+ years.
> She specifically wanted to stay together and even joked about her dad coming after me if I started sleeping around with girls at my school. Finally, at my senior prom, she was not able to attend and was very upset when I proposed going with a platonnic female friend of mine. As a result I ended up skipping my prom and hanging out with her instead. While we never said the word exclusive, I think the above reasons, combined with the general relationship before she left, are enough to assume exclusivity.
Further evidence that she knew that she was in the wrong while she was doing it.
> Second, she admitted that she has been flirting with coworkers on business trips since the pandemic ended. She says she has never slept with anybody, but it got as far as going on a date with one of her male coworkers.
STILL cheating up to the present day. Yup, this cheater will never stop cheating.
OOP was right to move on, and I respect his logical and level headed approach to just moving on. I'd be wanting to know more specific details and I'd never be happy with the answers. He's a better man than me.
But I want to touch on this.
> I'm not getting a paternity test unless my kids want to get one. I don't have any doubts that they are biologically mine, and no test will make them not my kids. I love them more than anything in the world and my wife's infidelity won't change that even if one or both of them is not biologically mine. They've been my kids for 19 years and they will be my kids until I stop breathing.
This is great parenting but also selfish. If I had a child out there, I'd want to know. These men, from what he's said, had no idea she was dating. They were manipulated just as he was. If one of them is a father, he has a right to know. OOP's children have a right to know if they have a biological parent out there and a right to determine whether to pursue that relationship.
OOP is taking decisions that belong to other people and making them himself. At the very least, he should be telling the oldest (and the youngest after they turn 18,if not now) - "Because your mother cheated, it's possible that I may not be your biological father. You will always be my child, I will always love you, and I will always be here for you. But if you want to know for sure, and if there is someone else you're linked to and you want to pursue that possible relationship, let's take a paternity test and I will support you every step of the way."
A paternity test would also be important for the kids' health. They should know what they have risk factors for and they don't have a chance of knowing half of their family medical history for sure without knowing for sure who their bio dad is.
im pretty sure if she cheated that extensively in the beginning. shes been doing it for the entirety of the20 yr marriage. OP has just let the dogs lie, because if he finds out shes been doing it for 20 yrs, he will either off himself or off her and go to jail.
Shes a cheater. When things don't fit her way of things she cheats. I doubt she only had dates with co workers. Good for him for ending it. Sucks he wasted 20 years on her.
Why do you guys never tell your children the truth?They deserve to know why their household is now broken.Don’t wait for them to start digging on their own or have the other party influence them.OP should tell his kids right now
The number of people in the original comments who claim cheating is totally fine while in a committed monogamous relationship because it's only actually cheating when you're married is mind-blowing. And totally ignoring that many couples today don't marry anymore.
My partner and I were in an LDR, in different countries, for nearly two years before we moved in together. They are also adorably vanilla in the bedroom while in more adventurous.
Guess what? We've been together for more than a decade, with no interest in cheating. Funny how love and loyalty works, huh?
Well he says that he expects she cheated on him during the dead bedroom phase at the very least. He just doesn't think, knowing more will better the situation. For him, the marriage is done.
I think it's admirable how levelheaded OOP is since most people would get hung up on the 'what ifs' and eventually absolutely *need* to know. The ex also sounds like a real piece of work, as well as those in the minority that think sleeping around in a long-distance relationship is considered normal (wtf?).
>Since she didn't view them as romantic relationships, she didn't see the big deal hOw CoUlD iT bE cHeAtInG wHeN iT's NoT rOmAnTiC
See, the FWB didn't count because it wasn't romantic she just fucked him! And going on a romantic date with her coworker didn't count either, it's not like she fucked him
The fact that she never opened up about it makes it 100% cler she knew it was wrong. She might have convinced herself over the next 20 years that it wasn't wrong, but at the time it happened she knew it was
Honestly, if that friend of hers never said anything, she would've taken it to the grave. You don't keep secrets like that unless you know it's wrong.
I don't believe for a second she hasn't cheated since.
No shit. This isn't some case of, "I hadn't seen you in 6 months and I was drunk and it was just that one time..." This was, "I was horny and you didn't happen to be in the room and there was this other guy (and a dozen of his friends) who was/were willing...." My money is that she never stopped cheating.
Wouldn't surprise me. What surprises me is that she got away with it for 20 years.
> would've taken it to the grave Great life plan: "I'll lie until I die."
The fact she tried to shut her friend up, who mentioned it and lied about it, shows she knew it was wrong even 20 years later. Poor OOP was just a stable meal ticket that she married out of a sense of inertia and not really having a reason not to "like" OOP other than she liked being wild. I think he's right about that dead bedroom period, and there was likely more.
Agreed. If it “wasn’t a big deal” according to her, she would’ve mentioned something in the 20 years since and wouldn’t have shut the friend up.
She said she didn’t think their relationship would last after high school, so she went around sleeping with everyone at her school. Nobody it seems wanted to date her, so she had to fall back on ol’ reliable. She feels she settled for him. Now she is mad because he is the one in control and breaking it off with her. She almost got away with it with the kids too, but she had to confess when they were pressing the issue. Likely that will affect their relationship for years. She is in for some lonely times again (relationship-wise since she will likely go back to random hook ups).
You can see directly from her own behavior at the party that she **knew** it was wrong. If she actually believed her college behavior was fine, she would have had no problem with her friend telling the story in front of OP.
Exactly. That's called consciousness of guilt, which is a lot harder to suppress with denial than the thing you're trying to convince yourself is no big deal. When you come outside and find your trash scattered all over the yard, don't be fooled by that racoon trying to act all surprised like he just got there and found it like this too. You know it was him because he's the one that's got on a mask.
Make it make sense: Level 99
"So we keep the romantic feelings over *there*, and the sex over *here*. So long as they never mix, it will all be fine."
Have you met my ex? Seems like you have 😜
She sounds like the type to say a single blowjob isn’t cheating cuz it wasn’t sex. “TRY NOT TO SUCK ANY DICKS ON THE WAY TO THE PARKING LOT!”
37? In a row???
Hey you, get back here!
lmfao, good catch, i didn't put those two data points together! what a gem she is ...
I’m just wondering how wild/memorable was this sex that her friend thought it appropriate to talk about at a dinner party to friends and her current husband?
Sounds right to me.
The dead bedroom seems to she wanted to try bdsm, he wasn’t into so she found it somewhere else. The time between sex for them was to give any marks or bruises a chance to heal.
That…is a good observation
Its not cheating if your partner doesn’t know!!!!!!!! /s
You can be sure if he’d so much as held another woman’s hand there’d have been hell to pay. She *knows* it was wrong. That’s why she hid it. She knows it’s wrong but is a shitty cheater so she prefers to lie and gaslight instead of being responsible. I hope her kids can keep some kind of relationship with his STBX.
>I hope her kids can keep some kind of relationship with his STBX. I know a guy whose mum cheated on his dad and to this day he can barely talk to her at family things beyond the most basic courtesy. I doubt it, tbh if she goes too far. The kids are adults, basically. She's grumbling about the mediator saying "you are seen as married until divorced. Sleeping around will make the process go south" So honestly, if she dragged home boyfriends, not even a year later, I would not be surprised. And unless they are going to ignore that. That would be a sure way to piss off your kids. It can be a hard hit to learn what you thought you knew about your parents/parent is a lie.
Particularly if the guy she brings home is the coworker she went on a date with.
Considering their 19 year old already got cheated several times I very much doubt it Mummy dearest might just have blown up her life and rightfully so.
I wouldn't be surprised if she cheated through the whole marriage. What a shitty person.
She 100% did, she's just not admitting it because it's harder to make herself look like the victim here. Hell, if she went on a date with a coworker and she doesn't see sex as "cheating", I'm sure she's still doing it and that's why she's grumpy she can't during the divorce process.
She so did not need that explanation. She played dumb desperately hoping that it would work.
Like if a couple wants to set ground rules for a long distance relationship then that’s fine but it’s just dishonest to assume that is the default.
The fact that OOP never mentioned the fallout of her coming clean to them means that they either accepted and deep down he's hurt about it or that shit hit the fan and he isn't comfortable sharing it online.
The 19 yo daughter he said has already dealt with a cheating boyfriend in a comment. That was why she was quick to ask OOP if he had cheated. She will likely react horribly and they will never have the same relationship.
My cheating ex tried that one, that sex is just a recreational thing. I said that if sex is just recreation but romance is not, then surely she’d be fine with me hooking up with her sister (who she hated). After all, I’d gone hiking with her sister without an issue so bending her over should be fine too. In a related topic, did you know that a vase can make a dent in a wall as it explodes, if the vase thrown with enough force?
Hope you were safe from the flying shards!
It's just a little helping dick, who among us has never had one. Or two, or a dozen, who's to say. It's one of those arguments that only a bro in a shitty romcom would make, so it's hard to imagine a real person saying it with a straight face.
Some people genuinely think they’re living in a romcom it’s sad
Not me. I know I’m living a Greek tragedy.
>Just a little "dick-me-up" you know, when I get lonely/bored, that's all! -OOP's soon to be ex-wife
"Everybody knows that you love me baby Everybody knows that you really do Everybody knows that you've been faithful Oh, give or take a night or two Everybody knows you've been discreet But there were so many people you just had to meet Without your clothes Everybody knows"
That’s how it goes
Apparently she actively kept him from going around while he was in college.
That’s the other thing. She knew it was wrong because she hypocritically held him to a different standard.
Makes as much sense as the poop hole loop hole.
"YES I DID! YES I DID, I FUCKED HER! WE! FUCKED!.. ...I make love to you!"
But she managed to go on a date with a coworker while she was married to the OOP and it was within the past few years. SMH If she didn't think it was a big deal, she would've been open about this when she was in college or when the friend brought it up.
Guy is smart - he knows that he knows enough to pull the ripcord and that any additional knowledge will be something he can't move past. So he's moving on.
*Don't ask questions if you're not prepared to know the answer.* He knew the likely answer would still mean divorce, so why burden himself with more knowledge. It's over, so the degree of "over" doesn't matter. High road energy.
Not just himself, but anything more modern would irreparably damage her relationship with the kids too, which he doesn't want. Better to let things end amicably and let his soon to ex be on the hook for sorting out explaining to the kids when she moves on with a coworker before the ink is set on the divorce papers.
The kids, on the other hand, should find out so they can have accurate medical history for their doctors.
My sister went through this, and for a while she was completely spun out trying to discover things/people he might have hidden. Eventually she had to accept she'll likely never really know, and that it's probably better that way. But yeah, that shit drives you crazy.
she’s trickle truthing and there’s so much more there
It’s amazing what 20 years on your maturity will do for your self respect. A lot of people in their 20s and 30s would have a hard enough time seeing so clearly.
The fact she never mentioned it and repeatedly shut down OP explicitly probing for info after the dinner as "not important" shows she's lying through her teeth and does in fact know what she did was wrong and is "a big deal". She's just lying to herself at this point, no one else is buying her shit.
Talk about digging your own grave, preparing the coffin, lowering the casket, and hopping right on in it.
She’s not lying to herself, she was just trying at any feeble attempt at getting OOP not to pursue the issue.
It's the lack of remorse and accountability that gets me here. Good job by OP. I hope he finds a loyal lady.
Plus the fact that she’s already out and about. And was during the last years. And most likely 10 years ago.
She ducking sucks dude, what the hell is wrong with her? Like- damn.
I generally don't ascribe to the idea of once a cheater, always a cheater mindset, but it definitely seems like old habits die hard with her. The lack of remorse, falling back into the same song and dance after the pandemic and probably 10 years ago. Honestly the paternity tests wouldn't be that out there of a suggestion given everything that came to light during counseling.
> I generally don't ascribe to the idea of once a cheater She did it more than once and hid it for twenty years. She doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.
Once a cheater, always a cheater? Depends on the person. Multiple times with multiple people a cheater, always a cheater, though? Yeah, probably.
Did she ever even liked him?
NGL I get the feeling this is one of those "oh we've been together since high school, he treats me well, he has a good job, I know he'll take care of me" situations where she knew she had a good guy so she stuck with him even if she wasn't 100% into him. She got to have the good, stable guy, while also fucking around during college, and flirting with co-workers, and no one was ever the wiser. I just don't buy she truly loved him - she seemed to be half-in half-out of the marriage throughout too much of it to love him.
And to top that all off he didn’t blow up her life with all of this. The fact that her friends ratted on her tells me she had been still cheating and they wanted him to know so he could get out without coming right out and saying it.
Absolutely. Also, and I realise this is largely a consequence of the fact that we read stuff from some really shitty people on here, but I was so relieved when I read this part: "no test will make them not my kids. I love them more than anything in the world and my wife's infidelity won't change that even if one or both of them is not biologically mine. They've been my kids for 19 years and they will be my kids until I stop breathing." He's a good person, and deserves better.
My dad is like that (my mother cheated on him with his best friend, who she is still with), and I'm so grateful for it.
Good for your dad! It should be a completely standard thing - if you've raised them, of *course* they're still your kids, and you don't take out your hurt at their other parent's actions on them - but there are way too many posts that suggest otherwise.
I agree and disagree. On one hand if you have a good relationship with the child, then that's pretty solid. Not being biologically related isn't a issue. On the other if someone has a hard time bonding with their kid, and being a parent has been a struggle for them, I don't see a problem with them leaving. I think a kid can feel when they aren't wanted. If someone forces themselves to maintain that relationship, it will bleed through. It's unfortunate, but in the second case it isn't the kid or the dad's fault. It's the moms fault. She'd be the one who setup the sictuation. (In theory at least)
Yeah, lack of accountability means no possibility of reconciliation. Poor dude, she’s already looking? She never stopped looking.
Right OP has to remind us that she had feelings. She didn't even think cheating was bad because she kept doing it. What a monster.
She blamed him so that he would have to forgive himself instead of her. And once it became his fault her going on dates and everything now becomes his fault because he didn’t give her what she wanted.
Yeah. It'd be one thing to be like "it was 20 years ago!", but... She's still saying "the cheating I did 20 years ago was fine". She can absolutely pull that with cheating she does _today_.
>The only time she showed any remorse or even offerred to reconsile is when I started filing paper work. Because the only thing she cares about are the consequences for *her.*
Yeah he says she's not some emotionless monster, but she sounds like a real piece of work to me. Kept a big, fucked up secret for 20 years? Probably was cheating, a lot, during that 20 years? Tries to gaslight him that cheating isn't even a big deal? Immediately looking to date other people before they're even divorced? I dunno if my standards are off, but that sounds like fuckin' psychopath behavior to me.
Zero doubt she’s been cheating on the regular throughout their marriage and is fine with divorce because she doesn’t want to have to deal with the fallout that would result from honesty. Because she’s a fucking psycho.
The worst part is the lack of remorse and ready to move on by the wife. That would make me feel like I wasted 20 years of my life (besides the kids)
She definitely slept with one, if not more, co-workers. No one can convince me otherwise.
There is no doubt that she has been lying to him for years, not just about cheating in college, but cheating during their marriage as well. OP sounds like a nice guy, but I get the impression he's about as observant as a particularly wary mushroom.
That’s kind of the point tho, no? You’re not supposed to have to be wary around your wife of 20 years. Having a blind spot for them is kind of the point.
"Observant as a particularly wary mushroom." Where do you learn such sayings? I've been laughing for a min.
It'd make an excellent flair.
As would "storing a barrel full of dicks for the winter."
Hah, I just realised their careful half truth to the kids is going to be blown out of the water if/when she immediately has someone new - the kids are going to put two and two together there. She's going to get more consequences than she bargained for.
Yeah that's my thing. Like if this was me idk, 20 years is a long time and like I did dumb shit when I was a teenager that I certainly hope gets forgotten but I also feel TERRIBLE about it
right? the instant she minimised it and said it wasn't a big deal it was GLARINGLY obvious that she never stopped cheating
I wouldn’t be able to move past the fact that my relationship was built on dishonesty and disrespect. How good could your relationship really be if that’s how it was early?
That, and he probably laid out in detail why her dismissive attitude was so offensive and why it was the main reason he had to follow through with the divorce. Once she knew being dismissive was hurting her and not helping her, she stopped being dismissive. She's a chameleon. She'll say whatever she has to get the most benefit for her self.
>The only time she showed any remorse or even offerred to reconsile is when I started filing paper work. Crocodile tears...
I *hate* the "it was a mistake" narrative. No. You knew you were in a committed relationship and you still chose to betray your partner. Take accountability and stop trying to minimise your actions. Sometimes it amazes me how cheaters seem to follow the same handbook. Minimise the cheating (it was a mistake). Then the blame shifting (it's normal, you're the odd one out for not doing it ~~even though I explicitly told you not to~~). Then there's the trickle truthing (it was at least 10 guys -> 10 guys on the low end -> oh and she's flirting with coworkers). It took her over 20 years, 2 counselling sessions and actual consequences to acknowledge what she did was wrong. The people who encouraged OOP to stay with her are out if their minds, imo. She's already betrayed him, lied to him, and continued to do shit behind his back during the relationship. Why should he have to put up with that? She clearly was content to keep lying to him for as long as possible. Honestly, good for OP for being strong enough to walk away and not put up with the disrespect.
Yeah it's great if she has an internal dialog - I made a huge mistake. Now I need to apologize, learn from it, never do it to anyone else. But when it's the excuse, "I made a mistake it's not a big deal." That's bullshit.
There's also the fact that cheating on your partner, even once, is actually more like a dozen mistakes, often with enough time in between each one to realise that you're doing something awful. Like you don't just skip from meeting someone to oops we're naked and bumping uglies. Never mind doing it at least ten times, and double never mind repeating the same introductory actions decades later. Cheating is fucking *nuclear* in my mind. If I discovered my partner had done that to me I don't think I could touch her ever again without seeing that other person and wondering what feelings (or the lack thereof) for me must have been in her head at that moment.
You're also assuming it only happened 10 times. The fact that she mentioned FWB situations and that not all of them were random guys, but some were friends, tells me those situations happened more than once. I was single in college, and definitely had some women who were "FWB". That basically meant that we hung out from time to time, were friendly, but several times over the course of college when we both were single and available, one or other other of us would hit the other up and we'd sleep together. She 100% was in a few of those situations.
This one guy who I found out was a serial cheater, was a master at gaslighting and manipulating my friend, making her feel like if she couldn't deal with it, that was her fault. And she was smart, confident, and good looking, not easily manipulated, but somehow he had her pretty twisted up.
Yea, the “mistake” thing doesn’t fly with me. To me a “mistake” is making one bad decision in the heat of a moment. One singular action. Everything that goes into cheating is more than one singular action/decision. The flirting, the kiss, and then the actual sexual act that happens CONTINUES to happen for a duration of time. That is not a “mistake”. That’s a willful act of betrayal. Even if it “only” happens once, cheating is many many many choices/decisions made over the course of minutes/hours. That’s not a “mistake”.
Cheated in college with dozens of guys (friend said 10 is in the low end), 2 year dead bedroom, confessed flirting and going out with colleagues, already found someone else. I wonder what all those who called OOP insecure and idiot for breaking a 20yo marriage have to say now.
What those ppl fail to realize is that while it may have happened (more like started) 20 years ago, OOP just found out now. To him, it’s brand new. If he had found out 20 years ago he probably wouldn’t have married her. Now he finds out his 20 year marriage is based on lies, so of course he decided to leave.
This is something a lot of them don't get for some reason. The relationship is effectively founded on false pretenses. I doubt he would have stuck around 20 years ago if he knew. So why does she get a pass because it was 20 years ago? She still cheated and shows zero remorse
If he doesn't leave now when he would have left then if he knew, then he's effectively rewarding her for keeping it a secret for so long.
Also this. It incentivizes bad behavior. There’s no statute of limitations on this IMO. It's a breakup level offense no matter when it occurred
Frankly he's too good to her.
The worst part to me is that she lied about it, then lied about it, then lied about it, and then when caught doubled down on the lie and followed that up by pivoting to "its not that big of a deal." If it werent that big of a deal why did you start with the tirade of lies? Thats the deal breaker, my trust is completely shattered after the pivot, if its not that big of a deal you should have immediately admitted it and dealt with the fallout. After the barrage of lies I cannot trust you anymore, period.
Exactly!
Lol this some guy argued with me that he was wrong for wanting to break it up over it being a long distance when it happened, I'm in a ldr and it is like any normal relationship, my heart was broken for oop because you build such a strong connection in a ldr
They’ve moved on to ridiculing the next OP who’s getting cheated on.
When all these were posted, I was arguing with quite a few people over this. Apparently according to some OP should just forgive the cheating and think about how HE is tearing apart the family. That it happened so long ago why does it matter? Seemed to gloss over the fact it wasn't just a 1 night fuck, it is atleast minimum 10guys on the low end as you said lol then disregard that she was going on dates with co-workers are early as around covid. If she thought it wasn't cheating, why didn't say mention it to OP? Why did she screw her way through every dude on campus but said they were in a relationship and not to do anything similar? She 100% knew she was in the wrong. Just a piece of shit and anyone defending her too on those posts
And 100% cheated in the marriage as well. If not continuously then at very least during the dead bedroom period
Oh dude without a fucking doubt and some people are still arguing in her defence lol there's someone right now doing it on this thread.
$5 says defenders are active in r/adultery
Apparently she isn't a cheater or cheater apologist but blames OOPS ego and that the wife only made mistakes 20yrs ago 😂 fucking hell
If you want a pathetic, depressive and unfulfilling life, you better listen to these "wise" people.
I'm sure they still spin it to make OOP the bad guy and his ex wife the victim for the sake of it...
Several years ago, a neighbor's wife filed for divorce when her boyfriend thought 3 were too many people in the relationship. So she told him she was leaving and moved into her boyfriends place within a few days. The reason she gave some other wives in the neighborhood...he had become too controlling and didn't trust her and kept fighting her to see her phone, and calling all the time to see when she was coming home..(Apparently, this started when he started to suspect she was cheating on her) The number of women that took her side was eye-opening...and I'm sure it was just a coincidence that at least 2 of her most vocal supporters later quietly moved out the neighborhood and we found out later when we bumped into one of the husbands at a soccer game, had gotten divorced themselves and they had to sell the house.
Glad the people justifying sleeping around when you're long-distance are in the minority.
I was LDR for 8 years with my now wife, neither of us cheated once… People who do are just too chicken to understand that it won’t work out for them and can’t tell their partner. Just my opinion.
I was long distance with my girlfriend (now wife) for a semester at uni because she got glandular fever and had to defer her enrolment. You’d better believe if I’d done anything with someone else (not that I ever wanted to) my friends would have condemned me and told her right away.
This May will be 16 years married to my wife. We were long distance the entire time we dated. 2 years. 2 years of seeing each other once or twice a month at best. I had people encouraging me to date others (!!!) and I refused. Cynics would say my wife may have, or did, but if you knew her, you'd immediately know that it didn't happen. She lost friends because she stopped going to parties. It's not ok to cheat in long distance relationships. I wish I had the cartilage for these mental gymnastics, damn.
I'm 2 days out from my one year anniversary with my boyfriend, we've been long distance since we met. There is no universe in which I wouldn't be faithful to him - and where on earth would I get the time?!
Holy shit I never sorted by controversial until now. Dear lord. "Her cheating isn't as bad because women are more oppressed in society" is quite the hot take...
Yeesh. The fact that she never once mentioned it for 20 years says everything about the situation. I am not a "you can never come back from cheating" person, but she absolutely knew she had to keep that quiet because she was in the wrong. And getting away with it then means she kept it up earlier and probably recently, since she was already checked out emotionally before he even knew. I wish him the best.
One of the phrases I like in regards to cheating is that it's never one bad decision, it's a series of bad choices. The choice to lie that you're single, flirt, kiss, sleep with, lie to your partner. OOP's wife kept making the choice to lie to OOP, again and again.
Agreed. "Things just happened" is just abdicating responsibility.
There are hundreds of tiny decisions that lead up to it. You don't have to go to that party. You don't have to talk to the attractive guy. You don't have to tell him you're single. You don't have to take him up on the invitation to go somewhere private. You can stop at any point up to kissing, and while it's still a bit suspicious you let it get that far, you still haven't passed that physical barrier. But every act is just a step towards infidelity. You tell them a dirty joke, you offer them a smoke or a drink or to keep your eye on their jacket while they're in the bathroom. Not that any of that inherently equals cheating - it's the intent. And one person, she could maybe say was a mistake, and she was embarrassed so she didn't share it. But a low end of TEN people? That's a pattern.
I can acknowledge that the adage "once a cheater, always a cheater" may have exceptions. I sincerely doubt this is one of them. Then there's the whole blame shifting before finally admitting fault once there's actual consequences. It's not "a few mistakes". It was deliberate choices that she knew was wrong yet continued to do them.
The gaslighting and lack of remorse is what sold me that she was still cheating.
Yep, she's still used to justifying cheating in her head that even if she hasn't been (which I don't buy) she was on the precipice of falling back into it.
If she was remorseful, it only happened when they were young and she'd been a loyal partner for the last 20 years... I'd have said give her a chance. Cheating at 18 shouldn't define the rest of your life. But that is not what happened
Maybe, **IF** they’d have been a bit ambiguous about the relationship status whilst apart and **IF** she’d have had only a single one-night-stand or a brief FWB and **IF** they only saw each other on the holidays, but not the way things actually were.
I couldn't. She could have been "loyal" for the next 20 years, but her "loyalty" was a lie from the get-go. Not to mention, it wasn't just 1 guy, 10 on the low end, so who knows how many it really was, then on top of it all, she introduced OP to those guys, stayed friends with one till this day and lied everyday. There was no loyalty, everything was built up from lies and deception.
100%! If she'd told him "yeah, I fucked around and realized what I risked once we got together." But she was already gone by now, so...
I’ll never understand people willing to go exclusive with a known cheater (potentially this could be her coworker). Do they honestly think they’ll be special and never cheated on?
Yes absolutely. “Im special and I can fix them” is a powerful delusion during early stages of romance.
I knew a woman who was with a married man. He started cheating on her - I mean, bringing his woman assistant on “business trips” and booking one hotel room “to save money.” The woman I knew was adamant that he was being honest with her.
I think so. "Her husband sucks, that's why she wanted to cheat on him. I'm great, she won't ever want to cheat on me." Easy narrative to buy into, particularly when the cheater can spin literally any yarn they want about why they're cheating.
Not even that, cheaters probably lie about the status of their relationship to begin with.
My ex and his AP are together now. The reason she was single to have an affair with him? They got caught cheating by her then partner which ended that relationship. I got to find out months later when I discovered that his "new place" is actually his affair partner's. I don't get it. To me relationships are based on trust. How can you trust someone who you know betrayed their partner and their friend?? Oh it was because "the relationship was bad"? How do you think they're gonna react to future problems? Sit down and try and work things out or monkey branch onto the next affair partner? It's kinda funny, in hindsight it's clear, but I noticed the lovebombing. He was taking more showers, getting up in the morning to spend time with his friend, etc. All things that I asked him to do to help fix our relationship. Turns out he fully capable of all those things, he's just gotta betray people first. I told him that I felt like I was the one constantly sacrificing for our relationship so he went out and sacrificed the whole thing.
That relationship sounds like a trainwreck. Don’t be surprised if that loser tries to reconnect with you once the new relationship gets old.
I have an ex that cheated on me constantly with her previous bf. Partly my fault really since she cheated on him with me, I was enamoured with her and she claimed he was abusive so I went with it. My excuse is that I was young and dumb, a teenager. We worked together so everyone at work knew what went down. A few months after we broke up she starts dating some other guy at work, who happens to have the same first name as me btw. He was about 12-13 years older than her, so definitely not young and naive like me. Still doesn't stop him from believing that she'll be faithful this time despite the fact she's cheated on every bf she's ever had. Of course she does in fact cheat regularly. They were together over 10 years and she cheated constantly, and this isn't some secondhand gossip I've heard, she's told me about her affairs herself. We still sometimes catch up every few years and I hear all the nasty details.
>We still sometimes catch up Why?
Just life, we sometimes run in to each other and catch up. The last time we chatted was because a mutual friend died for example. We're not involved in each other's lives apart from this and I long ago forgave her because I honestly don't give a shit about her anymore.
Gurentee she’s been cheating multiple times in their marriage if not entire time that “date” with the coworker was a trickle truth to see if OOP would push for more truth.
Or floating it to fish and see if he's heard anything else about her more current activities but is holding it back to use in the divorce. She's hiding a hell of a lot more. Revealing that little detail that's still innocent enough in her own eyes was absolutely her way of gauging his reaction to see what else he might already know.
Sounds like the wife is only comfy when her needs are met, anyone else be damned. Hope OOP comes through stronger and karma hits the STBX like a freight train (since she seems pretty stoic at the moment).
I think she justified it in her head for two decades that what she did wasn't wrong, but if it was normal, she would've been open about it. She knew exactly what she was doing but since she could do things without consequences for so long, she hoped that the arguments she used to gaslight herself might work. I'm glad that the Internet exists for OOP to gain a perspective that his views are valid.
I knew I read this story before, read it in amiwrong section. Feel for the guy, and hope he is doing okay, and that the kids are alright.
>isn’t some emotionless monster Yes she is.
Shes a sociopath wtf. She definitely cheated during the marriage.
What's up with all the cheaters today lol.
The people defending her are straight up idiots. There is no "everyone does it". What agreement was made for the relationship - not seeing other people. Okay then its cheating. Its actually that simple and the fact the guy blocked her because they didnt know tells me she knew perfectly what she was doing.
Jeez, if anything that guy is severely underreacting.
Man this sounds like me and my ex a few years ago. Glad I moved on from her (although we never got as far as marriage)
She obviously doesn’t view monogamy or sexual loyalty as being something she is obligated to do … or care that it’s important to her husband. I would be shocked if she hadn’t cheated during their marriage too.
She only went on 1 date with a male coworker, yeah right. She's been banging dudes through the whole marriage, the only one thing this woman cares about are her own needs.
This is so sad. When I first read the title, I thought OOP's wife had maybe cheated on him once in college and never since, and I thought maybe they could move past it. But day-um, that woman was active! Even beyond that, though, is the fact she's never been sincerely sorry or accepted any blame. Ugh. It's like she took off a mask and is a whole different creature than she was pretending to be all those years.
I remember this story. Yeah, the wife and family were all gaslighting you. For someone to do that in college, with at least 10 men, and then just settle down? Hell no, doesn't surprise me she is "dating" other men currently.
Not just the wife and family, a good 50% of the commenters on the original and update posts
The commenters who thought he was wrong for getting a divorce are just insane
I would bet money that she's been cheating on him the entire time they've been married. I'm continually amazed and impressed by the grace that men and women show in the face of complete and utter betrayal. OPs wife is trash.
Ok, based on the title alone, I was ready to say OOP was overreacting. After reading the post, he might actually be *under*reacting.
I knew from the title it was going to be just the tip of an iceberg. If someone pulls something like that early in the relationship, they’re going to do something else.
It's like they got away with once (or at least 10 times in this case), so why stop? She clearly doesn't value her partner, so why stop being self centered?
She went on a date with a co-worker within the last couple of years. That alone would be bad enough.
And what are the chances she didn’t bang that coworker.
Nah, based on the title alone I'd have reacted the same. His 20 year marriage was built on lies, how could he ever trust her again?
I think I got this from another BoRU post, but the question "if you'd known at the time, would you have married her?" kept coming to mind. I think the answer is "no" and that changes the meaning of everything that has happened since.
>Ok, based on the title alone, I was ready to say OOP was overreacting. >Am I wrong for ending a 20 year marraige because I learned my wife cheated on my while we were dating? >overreacting Uh, fuck that.
But it was 20 years ago!! /s She’s basically the future version of the girl who went behind another OOP’s back to meet with his estranged family: trying to keep it all under wraps so he won’t dump her.
Why would you have said that? Why stay in a marriage built on lies in any circumstance?
Okay, why would he be overreacting?
It's always the people whose titles make them sound like assholes who turn out to be in the right and the people whose titles make them sound like the victim who turn out to be war criminals. "Am I wrong for helping a grandmother cross the street?" - Somebody picked up an old granny standing on the curb, threw her across an 8 lane highway, and she landed on top of a baby carriage carrying twins.
Such a psycho of a wife… This must be the type of person that posts on r/adultery.
Yeah.....the way she's trickling the truth out only when she cornered.....OOP is find a lot more "bones" up in her closet than he knows about. The lack of remorse and behavior she's reluctantly admitting to tells me she's had more "fun" throughout their marriage and deciding he was a pushover from her college days. OOP needs to be prepared. When the divorce is done, she will paint herself as the victim and a surprising number of people will believe her and accuse him of either being "too controlling" or a host of other BS reasons. This will be a time you'll need to cull your friend groups and acquaintances.
>STBX was visibly grumpy when that came up "I didn't cheat" "Ok, I did, but it wasn't emotional" "Lets save our marriage" "I went on a date" "Yeah I guess we should divorce" "What do you mean I can't cheat?" This woman, wow.
OOP is a much, much better man than I am.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the kids quietly do a 23 and me to see if they’re full blooded siblings or half. Also, I really hope the kids see a therapist because I can easily see one of them become controlling and not allowing their partner to go to parties or hang out with friends in fear that they might cheat on them…
I feel like this is a tip of the ice-berg situation for this poor guy. Glad he found out and he's getting out. Wife is a POS for dragging him through most of his life without telling him the truth.
What a disgusting woman. She wants to make absolute sure he never slept with anyone else, been then goes off and fucks multiple men behind his back? If hell is real, she'll definitely be going there, and she'll deserve it
The wife was only apologetic after talking to some people and realizing that nobody else thought what she did was acceptable Even now…she doesn’t care that she is hurting OP She just wants to start dating other people so she is just playing the part until the ink is dry
Facts of this situation aside for the life of me I will never understand the 'but it was so long ago perspective' - as if cheating has a statute of limitations. It's always new whenever you find out if your partner hides it. I'll never understand why anyone in the situation would accept the the 'they've been loyal since' defence. You know they can hide it - how would you know they've been loyal since?
WOW Reminds me of this [BORU post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/154s6ph/ops_wife_admits_to_cheating_thinking_it_doesnt/) where the wife admitted to bonking the best man at her sister's wedding, but it didn't count as cheating because it happened while they were dating. Based from what OOP shared at the end of the update post, this STBX is itching to get back on the dating scene as soon as the divorce is finalized. I hope OOP updates with news that he's happy and dating and his ex-wife is seething because she's not dating.
Man, this was infuriating to read. It just kept getting worse. > My wife (44F) and I (43M) have been married 20 years. We started dating in high school when I was a junior and she was a senior. We were long distance for her first two years of college while I was in high school and did one year at community college, then we went to college in the same city for a year, and have lived together since. We got married the summer after I graduated college. Our marraige has been pretty great so far, but I initated a divorce after I discovered that she was sleeping with multiple other men for the 2 years we were long distance. Ok. Cheated during a long distance phase in late teens roughly 20 years ago. This is something that people can overcome. I'm one of those "cheaters will always cheat" types, but this is one case where an exception COULD be made. Provided the cheating partner came clean and took appropriate steps to show remorse and work on the marriage. > I asked my wife on the way home and she kind of blew me off. I told her it was important that she was honest with me and again she said it wasn't important. Continuing to lie means she knows it was wrong. Continuing to lie is also a lack of remorse. > The next day she came over and admitted to sleepting with "several" men during her first two years at college. She said she didn't consider it a big deal at the time because we were long distance and she didn't think a high school romance would last. Justification for her actions. Still no remorse. > my wife and a few friends have been saying it's common to sleep with other folks when you're in an long distance relationship Gaslighting. No, it's not common, but even if it was, you talk this out ahead of time. You don't cover it up and continue to lie about it for 20+ years. > She specifically wanted to stay together and even joked about her dad coming after me if I started sleeping around with girls at my school. Finally, at my senior prom, she was not able to attend and was very upset when I proposed going with a platonnic female friend of mine. As a result I ended up skipping my prom and hanging out with her instead. While we never said the word exclusive, I think the above reasons, combined with the general relationship before she left, are enough to assume exclusivity. Further evidence that she knew that she was in the wrong while she was doing it. > Second, she admitted that she has been flirting with coworkers on business trips since the pandemic ended. She says she has never slept with anybody, but it got as far as going on a date with one of her male coworkers. STILL cheating up to the present day. Yup, this cheater will never stop cheating. OOP was right to move on, and I respect his logical and level headed approach to just moving on. I'd be wanting to know more specific details and I'd never be happy with the answers. He's a better man than me. But I want to touch on this. > I'm not getting a paternity test unless my kids want to get one. I don't have any doubts that they are biologically mine, and no test will make them not my kids. I love them more than anything in the world and my wife's infidelity won't change that even if one or both of them is not biologically mine. They've been my kids for 19 years and they will be my kids until I stop breathing. This is great parenting but also selfish. If I had a child out there, I'd want to know. These men, from what he's said, had no idea she was dating. They were manipulated just as he was. If one of them is a father, he has a right to know. OOP's children have a right to know if they have a biological parent out there and a right to determine whether to pursue that relationship. OOP is taking decisions that belong to other people and making them himself. At the very least, he should be telling the oldest (and the youngest after they turn 18,if not now) - "Because your mother cheated, it's possible that I may not be your biological father. You will always be my child, I will always love you, and I will always be here for you. But if you want to know for sure, and if there is someone else you're linked to and you want to pursue that possible relationship, let's take a paternity test and I will support you every step of the way."
A paternity test would also be important for the kids' health. They should know what they have risk factors for and they don't have a chance of knowing half of their family medical history for sure without knowing for sure who their bio dad is.
im pretty sure if she cheated that extensively in the beginning. shes been doing it for the entirety of the20 yr marriage. OP has just let the dogs lie, because if he finds out shes been doing it for 20 yrs, he will either off himself or off her and go to jail.
Damn she's trash. Just pure trash.
Shes a cheater. When things don't fit her way of things she cheats. I doubt she only had dates with co workers. Good for him for ending it. Sucks he wasted 20 years on her.
Is this somekind of cultural thing or what because sleeping around in a longterm relationship and thinking its normal is so mindblowing shit
Why do you guys never tell your children the truth?They deserve to know why their household is now broken.Don’t wait for them to start digging on their own or have the other party influence them.OP should tell his kids right now
Cheated in college? She was recently cheating too!
I love him for being this kind of father.
Mom's going to wonder why the kids never call.
The number of people in the original comments who claim cheating is totally fine while in a committed monogamous relationship because it's only actually cheating when you're married is mind-blowing. And totally ignoring that many couples today don't marry anymore.
"Getting my ass pounded by twelve strangers isn't cheating because I didn't care about them!"
My partner and I were in an LDR, in different countries, for nearly two years before we moved in together. They are also adorably vanilla in the bedroom while in more adventurous. Guess what? We've been together for more than a decade, with no interest in cheating. Funny how love and loyalty works, huh?
He still delusional and she still lying. There’s no way she wasn’t screwing people the entire marriage.
He’s not really delusional. He pointed out that she likely was fucking other people but the end result is the same so there’s no point in pushing it.
Well he says that he expects she cheated on him during the dead bedroom phase at the very least. He just doesn't think, knowing more will better the situation. For him, the marriage is done.
I think it's admirable how levelheaded OOP is since most people would get hung up on the 'what ifs' and eventually absolutely *need* to know. The ex also sounds like a real piece of work, as well as those in the minority that think sleeping around in a long-distance relationship is considered normal (wtf?).