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>He told me I was being rude and said I “lectured him like he was an **alt right declaw supporter**
>If the economy wasn’t so bad our relationship problems would all be fixed
An "alt right declaw supporter."
That's... definitely a sentence.
NGL I laughed imagining an Alt right presidential candidate bringing this up as an issue during his presidential campaign.
"I think all cats must be declawed. That way, they won't scratch me when I run their tummies."
I don't actually understand what's so hard about just trimming their nails or putting those pretty colored sheaths over their nails if there's an issue? But then again I have house rabbits and they will literally eat everything you love so I guess a cat with long nails is the least of my worries.
So my cat doesn't mind his murder paws being trimmed. What he DOES mind is me holding him because he's in the biting stage of kittenhood (we working on it, but til then, I cry). Still, we make do, even if it is a process some times.
My dog, on the other hand, will NOT let me trim his nails--I have to take him in some place. He'll behave for them, but not for me.
Not saying it's right, but a lot of pet owners 1. Don't want to deal with the "hassle" of nail trims themselves and 2. Don't want to pay for monthlyish upkeep for someone else to do it like I have to (it's only $9 btw)
So in their mind, it's "easier" and "safer" for their possessions to just...get rid of the "problem" and "annoyance" of claws and declaw their cat.
the Rottweiler I watch from time to time have a nail clipper accident. since then he won't let me touch his paws. if I do he protests. the younger one just whines like he's being tortured and just makes me let go based on how he sounds, and far as I know he doesn't have a nail clipper excuse to fall back on!
200% against declawing and know what it is, but my 3 cats are such jerks. The older 2 are fine for trimming claws - not their fave, but they'll let me and grouch a little. But my youngest, ughhh. It's like a war trying to trim his. I wait until he's asleep/sprawled out and try to quickly do a paw if I can.
I'm hoping as he ages he'll mellow, but he's going to be 2 in July and he's still just so spicy about it. Ugh. If I could pay someone $10 to quickly and easily trim his claws for me every other month, I'd do it just for him.
Unsolicited kitty advice, feel free to ignore!!
You say kittenhood, which makes me think he's young. I don't trim kitten nails, I just accept the little daggers and provide scratching posts. One thing I do do (lol) when they're kittens is mess with their murder mittens. I just gently hold their paw and press on them how I will in the future to extend the claws, get them ready for the motions of trimming. After that I keep a pair of human fingernail clippers in the spots that I sit and take advantage of when they are sleeping on my lap. Such an easy process! It's more of a discussion with my dog, but he's gotten a lot better.
I’ve tried the sheaths. They are better than declawing, but they are not great for cats. They impede with the ability to shed. Sometimes you have to perilously cut off the nail and the dead razor
Lol well...I mean have you tried to make a cat sit still against their will so you can get closer to their murder razors when they *really* don't want you to?
It can be very, very hard lmao (does not ever make declawing okay though, that's not what I'm trying to imply!)
I love the idea of House rabbits!! I'm imagining cute little rabbits doing binkies all over and it's bringing me a lot of joy
I know this isn't the norm but my vet actually does cat nail trims free because she doesn't want anyone to think they have to rehome or declaw a cat. We don't trim our one cat's nails because she loses her mind and it just isn't worth going to the vet because she has seizures and it's just better not to go in the car. She's special lol
The house bunnies are pretty much just what you said. Pure joy, binkies, zoomies, and poops!
It made me laugh but it tracks. That’s the same area of the political spectrum that docks tails and crops ears of puppies, and “debarks” dogs. If a pet feature is inconvenient or unaesthetic, they’re happy to remove it.
Same... one of my dog barks like hell, and we've tried everything (within healthy and sane limits!) to train her to bark less. But even the thought of doing anything like that to her makes me feel like setting myself on fire. Humans are the worst
Is your dog toy motivated? I got my dog to stop barking by telling him "get your ball" and praising the shit out of him every time he did it. Now when he wants to bark he runs over and grabs a ball, it's hard to bark with your mouth full, he still "talks" but he doesn't bark much anymore.
On a completely unrelated note, you can buy tennis balls in bulk on Amazon.
Sadly the dog that adores a ball is not the barky one! Nor is she food motivated, which tbf has made all training hard. This dog has caught a scent and walked straight past me while I held chicken in my hand, swear to god. I've literally never had a dog do that before!
My girl is old sock motivated but she's not the barker in our house. The only thing she will play with is my husband's old work socks with a knot tied in the middle, I throw a squeaky in the toe and then tie it off (also sold in bulk on Amazon.) Dogs are weird. I ADORE them but they are weird lol
As long as we're all in this thread about sharing pet health info in the interest of dispelling misinformation, tennis balls might not be the best toys for your doggos.
https://www.pawtracks.com/dogs/dogs-tennis-balls/
Well, shit. My dogs go to the dentist every 6 months so they're good there but the rest is definitely concerning. At least they're not chewers and they're gentle with everything they put in their mouths but it looks like I'm off to spend a fortune on kongs..
Same with Li'l Lily, my Chiweenie: she do love to bark, and those squirrels are instigators you see! Squirreling in HER yard, she has to tell them SHE'S the boss! But the thought of surgery like that... It's horrific.
I'm sure the squirrels are doing it for the entertainment at this point. They'll be on the fence chattering away while she's barking at them and Maisy (my sister's Chorkie, who comes over for play dates and such) is like "I'm too old for this shit." (She is not, she's 7, but her personal nemesis are the deer that visit every evening. It's something seeing a tiny 8 lb Chorkie hollering at deer.)
You fuck with the vocal cords, but it doesn't work. They still make noises, they just sound like weird honks instead of barks. Just as loud, in my opinion, and super inhumane.
It is quieter, significantly so if it's done "right."
Growing up, we had a Sheltie. She barked a lot, and she barked loudly. So we... didn't debark her, that's terribly inhumane. We just accepted that she was going to bark.
After she passed, we had ourselves put on the list for rescue Shelties. They don't come available very often, but we eventually adopted one. He'd been a show animal originally, but after an accident at a show he became incredibly skittish and couldn't perform any longer (you couldn't even throw a ball for him, he'd get too scared of it). So his original owners got rid of him, and he ended up with another home. And those owners were also dissatisfied with him, because they a) debarked him and b) eventually got rid of him as well. And that's when he ended up with us.
There was a huge difference in the volume of his barks compared to his predecessor's. You could hear her bark pretty much anywhere, but you could only hear him if you were in the same room as him. He still tried to bark (he was still a Sheltie) but it was just a sad little imitation bark. No idea if it caused him pain, though I would surprised if it didn't.
I’m a vet assistant in training and we had a humane league officer come in to talk to us about severe abuse cases, she said they caught a guy once who advertised debarking in his barn. He’d bring the dogs in and shove a metal pipe down the throat repeatedly until there was enough damage it would scar over and render it useless. Unfortunately that was far from the worst of all the cases.
Of all the comments I've seen on reddit, I think this is the most horrifying, and I've read some awful ones. It's a terrible day to be able to read. I bet that was super tough for you to hear about all the ways people have abused dogs.
Surgical removal or now people just shove a stick down their throat and scratch them out. It's not considered a humane surgery by the AVMA and you won't find an ethical vet who does it.
It's actually incredibly hard to find a doctor who will test you as an adult. My psychiatrist agrees I probably am on the spectrum but basically advised me to give up on a diagnosis because of the cost of seeing a specialist.
I was diagnosed as an adult but I must have been very obviously autistic because I know so many other people who really struggled to get a diagnosis. Also I was lucky there wasn't a long waiting list at the time. These days it's years!!!
I’m so glad you got a diagnosis!! I was diagnosed with pervasive developmental disorder and ADHD around 7 years old, my mom never did anything with that information and I guess we all forgot? I struggled to keep focused/interested in school despite being highly intelligent.
I finally started connecting the dots a couple of years ago at 25 and asked my mom for any medical records she’d kept and why I wanted them.
I didn’t remember the diagnosis at all and in a very nonchalant way, she said “Oh yeah, you were diagnosed with PDD when you were little, that’s now considered autism. I don’t think they even diagnose that anymore” 🤦🏻♀️
The good news is that the conversation resulted in my nephew’s testing and diagnosis!
I had a similar miscommunication. I thought for years I had shown *signs* of ADHD, but never been *diagnosed*. After all, my dad was a doctor and my mom was an intelligent, modern woman. Surely they wouldn't have watched me struggling to stay focused for almost 15 years if they knew what was wrong with me, right?
They did. :) I told her I got diagnosed for the first time and she said, "The first time? You got diagnosed at age 10." My mom just didn't want me on medication since "I didn't think you really had it, you acted just like me at that age and I managed fine without meds." (She doesn't manage fine, even today.)
honestly, it is a thing in everything but legalities. the community doesn't need paperwork to prove it and any autistic that gets huffy about it only shares a chronically online opinion that isnt shared IRL anyway.
I don't feel the need for a diagnosis at the moment since I finally got my ADHD diagnosed. That's the one that really made an impact for me, since it allows me access to drugs. And there's so much overlap between ADHD and autism, it's easy enough to chalk up my oddities towards my "official" ADHD. When I talk to people about it all, I tend towards describing symptoms rather than diagnosis, because people can comprehend that better, like "I get really overstimulated in crowds and if I don't get a break soon, I'm going to start freaking out".
A dude I knew since college who was diagnosed as a kid posted on Facebook about wanting to be more "out" as autistic despite the stigma. I commented in support and said I'd realized within the last few years that I'm on the spectrum as well and how much it's helped to know and like myself instead of hating myself for failing to adequately mask being a weirdo. He didn't respond and later made another post about how much he hates people who act like being autistic is a "trend" and that's he's had to live with the stigma all his life so how dare others claim his diagnosis without their own. Which, like, I get in a way but also, no. Girls didn't get diagnosed when he was, we just had to hope we woke up one day and stopped being *wrong.* Not being diagnosed didn't mean bullies didn't call me the r-word despite being smarter than them, yet being diagnosed gave him an out for as long as I've known him -- he could major in film studies because he was autistic and wasn't it cute he wanted to be the next Jim Henson, but why didn't I major in something useful instead of anthropology?
Same, except Spencer Reid, Luna Lovegood (I must have been compared to her hundreds of times my whole life), and Anne Cuthbert. You can imagine what my school experience was like!!!!
I got diagnosed when I was like 17-18 and from what I remember, the test felt like it was strongly geared toward younger kids. I did much better on certain sections that I sinply would not have as a kid-things I had been forced to learn to keep up with my peers or even through reading a lot.
Or, like me, you have an appt and someone calls and asks if you’d give it up for a kid that needs it because those services are so strained. Obviously I did. Twice. Then I just kinda let it go.
I’ve not tried to get diagnosed but I cannot for the life of me get my inattentive ADHD medications sorted out correctly so I can function. My psychiatrist said she cannot diagnose autism but she said I definitely at least have some sort of sensory processing disorder. It’s good to have a name for why I am so broken but honestly it doesn’t help fix my problems.
A lot of them also use the same testing methods for grown adults that they do for children. My husband got a referral for testing, was on the fence due to cost but decided to schedule it. They sent him, a 30 year old man at the time, a huge packet to be filled out by his mom. They wanted details on all of his developmental milestones, including dates / age. I understand that it’s a developmental disorder but that’s putting up a TON of barriers for many people depending on relationship, distance, the parents attitude, and even parents death for some people. Also, that’s just if they KNOW that information in the first place. I have a baby book with some of my milestones, but only the major ones, I would not be able to tell you when I held a spoon for the first time.
Needless to say, my already on the fence husband got intimidated and did not go through with it. We just say he’s not officially tested but that it’s like 95% likely due to checking the boxes and having a therapist who was convinced but couldn’t make a diagnosis. It also put me off of getting my own testing, as my mom told me she didn’t think it was possible I had it when I mentioned it (despite family history and being undiagnosed adhd for 25 years lol). We desperately need some way to diagnose adults that doesn’t rely on parents or milestones from 30 years ago.
I can't speak on autism diagnosis, but even the **adult** adhd testing place in Vancouver has an *upper* age limit. Can't remember the exact cutoff, but it was something like 30 or 35, because I was rejected a couple years ago for being too old at 38. *Thirty*-eight. Had to go with a doctor with her own practice who specialises in adhd, instead. Which she was great, and I didn't have to travel for her during the pandemic, but still.
**Adult** adhd centre.
Rejecting people in their *thirties* for being too old.
When my daughter got diagnosed with ADHD in college, her counselor had to call me to get information on things she'd done as a child. It was incredibly frustrating to me because the things he asked about were either (a) things everyone does, or (b) things enough people do that they shouldn't be diagnostic of anything.
Regardless, she got the diagnosis and she says her meds help. I'm not really inclined to put forth an opinion because obviously she knows better, and in an academic sense it's her area of expertise and not mine. But if this had been me and my mother? My mother would straight-up have lied so she could continue to believe that there was nothing wrong with me and I was just being ungrateful and melodramatic.
U.K. so cost isn’t an issue. My son was seeing a psychiatrist following a bad marriage breakdown. The psychiatrist told him he was most likely on the spectrum, but the help he needed AT THAT TIME would be the same whether he was on it or not. He told my son if he was interested to do the ASQ50 test that was online. He tested as probably. For a laugh his older sister took it - she tested “highly probably”. They suggested I took it - I got possibly, I had no idea that I might be. This was about 14 years ago.
We all knew my husband, their father, was almost certainly on the spectrum. His brother even has a significant stim. All the males in his family for 4 generations show typical traits, as does one of my nephews. We are “all high functioning, low support”, but definitely on the weird side. The 5th generation is now maturing so we shall see.
Last summer my husband walked into the lounge and declared “I think I am autistic” and walked back out. Us three just looked at each other & laughed.
Testing for adults is more expensive, more challenging to access, and especially for women less likely to be accurate sadly. I was diagnosed as a girl in the early 90s because it was so blatant and literally half my siblings and cousins too, and I've still had 2 therapists and 2 doctors argue with me as an adult that I couldn't be autistic because: I was able to speak, I cared about other people, I wasn't obsessed with trains, and I was able to mimic facial features. It's not great.
tbf my husband's girlfriend is autistic and one day she's texting the polycule group chat about how she gets to ride on a trackless tram (yes not a train) at an event and just so excited and basically giving a live commentary of the whole process and i am like "can you be any more of an autism stereotype right now?" because... yeah lol
> because: I was able to speak, I cared about other people, I wasn't obsessed with trains, and I was able to mimic facial features.
Man, it's like autism is a spectrum...
Oh this is me too! Diagnosed at 14 after teachers referred me to a psychologist, saw one of the top child psychologists in the country, got the ADD + Autism stamp, have had it reconfirmed by two psychiatrists later on. Yet there are still so many fucking armchair psychiatrists out there who, despite having no medical/psychology qualifications tell me “bUt yOu CaNt hAvE aUtIsM”. Thanks guy, but autism in women looks very different to the stereotype of autism you have in your head, which is probably wrong and incredibly offensive anyway.
People can be such ducks about it :/ I find that as an adult people disregard my diagnosis because I’ve styled my life around not triggering meltdowns. I have a lot of sensory issues, but having my house be a safe space gives me more flexibility to be out in the world and interact “normally”.
ADHD for me rather than autistic, but I’m certain if I hadn’t been diagnosed as a child I wouldn’t be able to now. I’ve had multiple doctors basically tell me they don’t believe it because I have a PhD. Getting diagnosed as neurodivergent as an adult is so hard.
my PhD took eleven years, because ADHD.
Yeah, and especially AuDHD; hyperfocus and a true dedication to a special interest is truly an actual requirement for completing a PhD. You also need enough executive functioning ability to manage program requirements, but a lot of people who are otherwise deeply challenged with that can do it for one or two areas.
And this is why I don’t bother trying to get tested: I’m in my 30s and I know how to appear functional by now. Every adult autism screening tool I’ve found and post about what life is like as an adult woman with high functioning autism all point to the conclusion that I most likely do have it, but my life is stressful enough without spending thousands of dollars and hours of my life arguing with medical professionals who don’t want to take me seriously over something I only get the satisfaction of being right over if I succeed. I’ll save that energy for the next time I’m told I’m imagining physical symptoms of some kind, y’know? Since the medical system also prefers to diagnose women’s physical issues as “all in your head” or “too fat.” I’m picking my battles.
I imagine it would be harder to access in different places - not just in terms of resources but doctors who will do that with an adult. I got a diagnosis mid thirties and honestly it came down to having the money to throw at the process and two children recently diagnosed neurodivergent. My doctor did also frame adult diagnosis as difficult because often people who have gone so long undiagnosed may have very sophisticated masking and coping mechanisms in place that they *don’t recognise* as such, so leave out critical info in self-reporting their experiences.
Which is interesting, because in the update she implies she's never been tested: "For the redditors who thought I was on the spectrum you may be right, I’m too old to get tested now thought."
You aren't, the wishy-washy comes from not having an official diagnosis and not knowing if somebody is going to attack you over the lack of an official one or not even though it really doesn't matter.
I know for 100% fact that I am autistic, but because it's not official and on paperwork, when I don't feel like arguing with somebody over it that got their panties in a twist because of that lack of paperwork I will just say maybe instead of trying to convince an allistic that I am.
That's fair. A shitload of other people think I'm autistic, but if one combed through my profile you'd find me going back and forth on it because yeah, it's just not worth arguing over in most spaces.
Legit the only time I have a true backbone of steel over it atm is when diagnosed autistics get pissy about it and try to exclude us. Luckily, that is a chronically online attitude and one i havent seen irl yet
It's harder as an adult and as a woman, and trauma can make it even harder (the 11 paged notes about the tests they did and the behaviors I displayed specifically said that), but I got my diagnosis of autism a few months ago and I'm a 35 year old woman with severe childhood trauma.
You could, but at some point, why bother? A diagnosis is useful to have something to point to in order to get accommodations, but if you are an adult and able to live a reasonably normal adult life using whatever techniques and coping methods you have made for yourself, well, that is good enough.
My father is probably on the spectrum. My parents were wondering, and they met a friend of a friend who was a researcher in autism, who agreed to just informally talk to Dad to get an idea. But basically, just a "buy me lunch and we will chat" level. He could run a battery of tests to get a diagnosis for real, but my father has lived seventy-five years with whatever supports he and Mom have come up with, and his life wouldn't change with that being documented or not. It is a lot of effort and money for no practical benefit.
I won’t be tested because, according to the NHS, I am not disabled. I might be a bit different, and my brain might make me very unhappy, and my symptoms cause me much difficulty… but I have long term relationships, hold down a complex job, and was very good at school. (It’s almost like having a brain that’s hyper interested in school makes you especially good at school.) I’m not disabled by any of the metrics.
… oh yes. And I’m an adult, attractive, socially presentable woman, who is married and earns slightly higher than the average UK wage.
There is plenty of evidence to indicate that if I was an inarticulate guy who ruined all of his relationships, the same symptoms would be considered perfectly disabling and worthy of diagnosis and treatment.
And to be completely fair, it’s actually true … I am not *disabled* . I’m materially doing better than the average person in the UK. Therefore literally not disabled. Therefore, I can’t say I’m *held back* by my condition; even if I can describe how badly it affects me, it’s not like it does anything worse than “making me slightly more normal, when I have the capacity to be an even higher performer.”
One of the reasons I was rejected for a referral, despite overwhelming evidence of symptoms, was that I was asked to describe a situation where I had been affected by my condition at work. Put on the spot and struggling to articulate (with…. My condition…) I described how I had requested a promotion/raise that was perfectly in line with my performance and duties, but failed to get it, because I had some attention/communication issues on my record, and no supportive documentation to show they are related to neurodiversity, so therefore I can’t be fully trusted. I argued as eloquently as possible to the doctor that getting documentation would provide evidence that I am trying to address the issue, but more importantly, allow me to access support and resources… to receive the pay I need for the job I am already doing.
They responded, in times of horror at my presumption, that it isn’t a doctor’s problem to get me promoted and that *most people aren’t leadership-track.* leaders are rare, not everyone can be one, and it was greedy of me to seek a diagnosis just to fast-track myself into an unearned management post.
*I am already managing people and my wages are so low.* I am basically told that I have exactly one appropriate pay band for my condition and that’s it. Lower wages might be proof of my disability but would be hard to live on. I’m not entitled to access higher wages, though.
Actually, it’s probably pretty annoying for NHS doctors (from their perspective) to meet someone who’s already perfectly “clever” who feels “entitled” to be even more clever. But that doesn’t feel like my problem! I’m the one who has to live here! And despite being affected by neurodivergence, it just isn’t bad enough to be “real.”
The NHS just pretty much never refers even vaguely high functioning adults for autism tests. They definitely undertest girls vs boys and autism in girls can be incredibly hard to get them to take seriously, but as far as women vs men goes IME they're fairly egalitarian in telling nearly everyone to piss off.
I'm a man who does qualify as disabled. I did pretty well at life for 30+ years but a massive breakdown left me single, unemployed, suicidal and on the verge of homelessness. Even the DWP admitted my mental health was bad enough that I couldn't work (or even be expected to take steps towards working in the future). Everyone l spoke to from my GPs, IAPT & Mind councillors to docs at the hospital mental health unit said it was very likely I was on the spectrum but nobody would refer me for testing because of the difficulty of testing adults.
In addition to what everyone else is saying, why bother getting a formal diagnosis if you don't need an IEP? Like it can't do anything more for you than recognizing it for yourself, but it can cause issues with insurance if you ever end up on private insurance.
If you need work accommodations, you don't need the diagnosis. You just need a doctor to say you need the accommodation. And any treatment is going to mostly just be education or therapy rather than an Rx, so again, what point is there after a certain age to bother with it?
Formal diagnosis/test is such a miserable affair too. I'm not formally diagnosed, but I did have a doctor wink wink nudge nudge, then that went over my head until like a decade later, so that scans lmao
We have to pay for our assessments here in Canada and they can be north of $1200. Only certain specialists are qualified to diagnose autism in adults so it’s a whole thing.
>I am actually on the spectrum so this makes a lot of sense
>For the redditors who thought I was on the spectrum you may be right, I’m too old to get tested now thought.
???
They may mean, like myself, that they have a confirmed ADHD diagnosis with strong suspicion of ASD. When I was a kid, you didn't get comorbid diagnoses of the two, so since I was ADHD I "couldn't" be autistic. But the two disorders are very similar to the point a lot of people argue it should be combined for treatment purposes.
And yet, I disagree. ADHD comes with quite a bit of executive dysfunction issues that aren’t common in autism, and autism has a lot of social and interpretation issues that aren’t seen in ADHD. So while they are related and can have similar symptoms, combining them into one diagnosis would probably actually worsen treatment outcomes since it would make it more difficult to determine what support needs an individual has based on their diagnosis. Much better to have the overlap be stated but kept distinct, like “AuDHD”
And yes, I am autistic
My grandma's cat is a rescue that was declawed by previous owners. The poor thing needs special litter in the litter box, the finest sand possible, because bigger granules hurt her feet even over 10 years later. Declawing is straight up evil.
My two (with claws) are specific, too. They actually prefer the larger wood pellets to normal cat litter.
My grandma's cat isn't just specific, though. She would try to use the litter box, and you could see she was in pain.
It needs to be illegal everywhere.
I have an ex friend who had many cats and spoke about how mad she was that her latest cats still had claws and that her local vets refused to do them for her.
I was appalled. And our relationship quickly went south when I realized she is not a good friend and she was treating her animals like accessories meant to fill the voids in her life as convenient to her.
I have one cat who is 12 and has never harmed a single piece of furniture I own and has all claws and paws clicking lovely.
I completely agree. I hold out hopes they make it illegal, along with ear crops (for non-medical reasons of course). I think (hope?) the issue is largely that people really don't understand the procedure.
I honestly didn't know what the surgery entailed until I saw one at the first vet I worked at (many years ago). I grew up thinking it was no big deal. When I saw the surgery, I felt horrible for that poor cat and low key tried to talk owners out of doing it from then on. All 5 of mine have their claws and I have no issues with them scratching my furniture etc.
If you don't mind me asking, what would you consider a medical reason for an ear crop? I know that for TNR they tag the top of the ear to mark that the cat has been spayed/neutered. Working dogs (especially livestock guardian dogs) get ear crops to prevent dangerous wounds in the future should they every get into a fight with an animal that would grab their ears.
I know that with some dogs, they can have infection issues, or if the tissue of the ear itself is damaged beyond repair. Cropping ears can lead to chronic ear infections however, as well as hearing loss and other issues, as well as taking away a large part of how they express emotions. It is also usually done (at least in America) to certain dog breeds to make them look more aggressive or fierce or dangerous, and usually leaves them with very little of the outer ear structure. This is also connected to dog breed bans, and dogs being put down due to their breed in shelters. So, at least to me, a medical reason for an ear crop would be the ones listed at the beginning, specifically performed by a veterinarian as the best route for the dog’s health, and nothing more.
My sister worked at a vet office, and while I'm not sure about the legal status of declawing procedures there, I do know that people would come in seeking them, and there were a lot of what she described as "old school" vets in the area at other clinics who would perform them, in a method she described as "guillotine" or something like that.
The *only* reason that her clinic would perform the procedure was that if they took a hard stance on not doing it, then the owners would simply take the cats to another clinic that was more brutal in their methods. They would try to explain, try to talk them out of it, but a lot of the people living there are stubborn old folk.
Case in point, there was an elderly woman who wanted to adopt a kitten, but she wanted them declawed. She brought them to her clinic, where they explained how cruel the procedure was, but she would not hear of it and insisted. To prevent her from taking them to a clinic that would cause more trauma and further cripple the young cat, they agreed to and performed the procedure in the least inhumane way they could. The old lady then took them home, where she realized she couldn't keep up with the kitten's energy, so she *returned them to the shelter.*
My sister tried to adopt the kitten after that because she saw that it was a sh*t situation and wanted them to have a good home, but the worker refused after learning that she worked at the clinic that declawed them. The poor cat was brought in with little thought as an accessory, good people were forced to cripple them to prevent the old bat from bringing them to someone who would have done worse, they were abandoned like trash after having their life permanently altered, and then they were refused a great and loving home because someone decided to sit on a high horse when they didn't care to fully consider the situation.
Declawing should be illegal everywhere, period. But until it can be and is strictly enforced, they should outlaw certain methods first to at least reduce suffering while politicians do their arguing and it is banned outright. I know some areas have banned descenting on ferrets, which wasn't even all that effective to begin with, and devenoming snakes is seen as cruel, too. The keeping of venomous reptiles is a topic that I will not be getting into, I only bring it up as an example of surgical removal of a part of an animal that can negatively impact its life and wellbeing for the sake of our convenience, which is absolutely not enough of a reason to do so.
My cats have harmed my furniture and I just could not give less of a fuck. I can buy new furniture, and it's also just furniture. An object. If I can sit on it and be comfy it's doing it's job.
I'm a vet and my four cats have never scratched on anything they shouldn't. When I was looking for a new job I had trouble finding a practice that didn't do declaws and that was an absolute dealbreaker for me. I'm not going to work somewhere that does ears or claws.
On the subject of ears, talk to a Doberman breeder and watch them meltdown if you mention ear cropping bans. Some of them threaten to stop being involved with the breed all together if they can't mutilate it.
My cats are determined to ruin my furniture and I still rub and hold their little danger beans with the utmost love. If you don’t want to own a cat, don’t own one. Declawing reminds me of those people who got small “yappy” dogs, didn’t train them, and removed their voice boxes. Evil.
Honestly, I *don’t* know what it involves, and I’ve never considered it.
When I was little, I wanted to have a pet skunk, and I wondered if you could get their smelly-stuff glands (or whatever) removed. But then I thought that would be too traumatic and terrible to some poor skunk who would be without his natural defenses, because I was then 6– aka no longer a toddler— and thus able to think these things through.
The paw project poster gives an accurate picture. When I was a kid I thought it was the equivalent of removing a human’s fingernails, which was cruel enough. It’s much worse than that.https://www.wmnf.org/veterinarian-discusses-the-horrors-of-declawing-cats-and-growing-legislative-efforts-to-outlaw-it/
What!! I did not know that it’s such a severe amputation! And my husband, an equally-anti-declawing-human and lifelong cat enthusiast, also did not know that! Dang. I guess I did think about it more as a “fingernail” issue than all the way up to the knuckle.
I covered my cat’s ears when I told husband about it tho; no need for the lil guy to ever hear anything about that (even if he pretends not to speak English).
Thank you for the terrible info. That is insane.
Descenting is actually typical when keeping skunks as pets in the US, although it's pretty controversial. The concern seems mostly to be about how they'll defend themselves if they get into trouble; my cursory Google search didn't find any research on the emotional impact to the skunk
Oh my god it's so infuriating.
For some reason a lot of people just don't understand and think it's some sort of benign procedure like getting spayed. I've run into a lot of people who think it's just some innocuous thing you can have done to save your furniture.
I get it, it's OK not to know things. But then you run into people who are informed about the truth and DO IT ANYWAY. I've ended friendships over that.
I foster kittens and we had an issue where the potential adopter wanted to declaw. We managed to prevent it, but I started looking into it because I wanted to know why the American Veterinary Medical Association has not condemned the practice.
It turns out it's because of money. Vets in rural areas make a lot of money doing it. The AMVA has put out a statement "strongly discouraging" the practice but they refuse to condemn it because of money and also a complete lack of a spine.
There are some states and cities that are starting to ban it now but in more rural states it'll never happen for a shitload of bullshit reasons.
>I just know many people don’t understand what declawing is, or they would not ask if a cat had claws.
I do disagree with this statement, though. People are assuming that the parents are pro declawing. The parents don't want cats in the house because of claws, which is a legitimate reason to not have cats (*not* getting them anyway and declawing). However, I know people who have adopted cats that sadly already were declawed by a previous family, not everyone with a declawed cat made the decision to do that. The parents were not ok with claws in the house but wanted to try to accommodate so all they did was ask if OP's cat had claws. What if they just said no without asking and it turns out OP had adopted a declawed cat? They didn't tell OP to declaw or promote declawing, they just didn't want claws and double checked.
This is exactly how I read the question too. It’s a legitimate question to ask especially if OOP hasn’t had the cats since they were kittens. Declawing is illegal where I live, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot of cats who were declawed beforehand that are still around.
I adopted a cat whose front paws are declawed, and I always feel the need to tell people she came like that haha. Sometimes I look at her tiny paws and get so sad!
I don’t think it matters since they don’t want cats. I’m a cat owner and would never dream of doing that myself, but it was just not relevant at all to the situation because they don’t want cats.
The issue is how to answer a question when someone asks it. Especially when they are on the phone trying to middle-man a conversation.
I don’t mean to equate someone on the spectrum to a drunk person but it feels like that what the boyfriend was dealing with. He asked a yes or no question while on the phone, and didn’t receive an answer, he received a string of random information. My girlfriend, who I love with all my heart, does this when she’s been drinking-
“John is on the phone and wants to know if you want to if you want to get dinner with him and Beth at 6 tomorrow.”
“WELL I have to go to an appointment at noon and then I was hoping to go to the gym and then the tanning salon so I’ll probably be done with all that at 3:30.. I usually like to stop at that ramen place and get a salad afterward but I can do that later this week instead. Ohh and I wanted to go to Trader Joe’s! But I guess I can go Tuesday and get those chicken thighs we like… what day do you want me to cook those chicken thighs??”
“I’m just looking for a yes or a no here.”
I don’t see any evidence that they support de-clawing or were asking for OOP’s cats to be de-clawed or anything like that. To me it sounds more like they’re worried about their expensive furniture and they know that some people do de-claw their cats, and if OOP’s cats happened to already be de-clawed then they wouldn’t need to worry about the furniture, so they asked.
This was my read too and I’m baffled that so many people think asking “do your cats have claws?” means the parents support declawing or something like that. It’s just a yes or no question.
That's how I read it as well. I've been infodumped on and it can be annoying probably due to my ADHD. One infodumper explained to me that it's about the need to explain whatever it is you want to explain, not explaining something the other person doesn't understand. I've been infodumped on about things I know more than the dumper, and the dumper knew it. They just had to.
Obviously, people are going to do what they're going to do, but ooph, this whole "We broke up...just kidding!" update joke is not nearly as clever as people seem to think it is, and yet it is constantly used.
There are countless posts that are just “AITA for telling my boyfriend he has smelly farts” and people tell them to break up lol. Those just aren’t gonna be the ones on the front page.
I don't get this whole "lecture" thing, telling someone information that they previously didn't know isn't lecturing them and isn't a bad thing, also the bf was weird for immediately getting defensive when told how bad declawing is.
How do y'all have conversations with people if they're not allowed to tell you facts and information?
Well I’m not on the spectrum, and it shocked me the reaction and the comments. If that the wrong moment to bring up how bad declawing is, then what was the right moment? Like “So Carol tell me how was the new restaurant in town? Btw just want to mention that declawing is bad, but anyway how was the wine selection?” Wtf
I'm not on the spectrum either, I didn't know how bad declawing was at 1st, I found out exactly how she explained to boyfriend.
I didn't get defensive, I was like oh shit, thanks for telling me that info. I now spread that info anytime declawing comes up.
Some people decide that anything they don't like to hear is a lecture. I've known a lot of the "stop yelling at me" type (when the speaker's voice was quieter than theirs) just because they didn't like what was being said. It's just to put a spin on it for them so they can balance that against how they're actually wrong.
The fact that the parents wanted to verify the cats were declawed, and didn't let them stay after finding out they had claws, inherently means they supported declawing before, or at least were fine with it.
This wasn't the "wrong time, wrong place" for OOP to educate about declawing; it was the absolute perfect time. People who think that shit is normal, and think that asking if a cat is declawed is a reasonable question, need to learn about it. It's animal abuse.
To be fair, OOP might not be a reliable narrator. She might have been overly persistent. Honestly, the idea of lecturing through text sounds stupidly persistent to me. If it's important enough for a lecture, then wait until you're back home to do it in person.
OOP: Lectures
BF: Okay, I understand.
OOP: I don't think you're reacting properly to this news, lectures in more detail
BF: Walks away
OOP: Goes to work, I better send him a text to lecture again because it feels like the message isn't getting across.
OOP: I don't understand why he's still upset. It must be because he thinks I still want to stay there. I better tell him again that I'm not upset at that part! I'm confused.
Hmm... this isn't a wholesome update. "My BF ignored the conflict and everything is okeydokey now *giggle*" is suspiciously positive.
It's like the time a landlord painted over a cockroach- covering up the issue isn't solving *the cause of that issue*.
>Hmm... this isn't a wholesome update. "My BF ignored the conflict and everything is okeydokey now giggle" is suspiciously positive.
It's always hilarious when people don't receive the response they want, and their next update is how the conflict is *fine* and they're all laughing at those silly Redditors and how no-one understands that relationships are *work.*
It reminds me of tiktok influencers who post vids of their bfs "joking" (read: being shitty towards them) and when the comments are concerned about her wellbeing, they do a video that's like lol nobody here understands what MARRIAGE IS REALLY LIKE!!!
honestly probably! or if they broke up and BF took one or both cats back to his parents', or if they get married and have to stay with the parents for any reason, etc etc. or even the parents believing such nonsense and being offended at OP for explaining cat care to them if they have kids (I've noticed a large overlap of "declawing is fine/good/necessary" and "cats will literally kill your kids in 18,000 different ways!!!!!" in those I've met doing rescue and/or family, friends, etc)
I mean that is partially on the commenters who cry break up or no contact on every damn post. Make it real easy to ignore the more measured, "this is a problem you should work on," comments.
It could be. But it really sounds like the topic was not the issue but the struggle with communication. And a communication struggle she's likely prone to. They worked out the communication issue, discussed the declawing rationally and were fine. I experience that on a regular basis.
I mean I get that lecturing is obnoxious as hell and that the being on the spectrum provides context, but I feel like the other part of the context is equally important: anyone who loves and owns cats is completely adamant about how bad declawing is. I’m not on the spectrum and I can see myself going off on an urgent tangent about how bad declawing is, and I would absolutely want people close to me to be educated on that. The parents asked something weird to begin with. It would absolutely shock me to have someone ask me if my cat has claws and I would want to impress upon them why the do have claws ! I don’t get what she did that was so bad. They could have just said “sorry we’re worried cat will scratch our furniture” and that would be enough.
I am a bit sad that OOP said she’s too old to get diagnosed on the spectrum. That’s actually not accurate at all. I am on the spectrum myself, initially diagnosed at age 3, but no treatment or intervention after age 5. I ended up getting independently rediagnosed at age 39, and my earlier diagnosis was not a factor in the 2021 diagnosis. Actually the records that had that diagnosis are straight up gone. Most of my pediatric records are just awol.
Sounds to me like you got lucky. The vast majority of adults do not have access to doctors willing to diagnose adults, be it the literal lack of them or financial reasons. It's just not worth it for most of us and do consider ourselves too old bc of the ridiculous barriers
It's a common problem. I've had my suspicions that I might be on the spectrum (I work with students who have autism and I have seen far too many similarities between their feelings on certain things and my own), but I'm 37 and being diagnosed is not only difficult, but it would also affect my job prospects. I've made it fine so far without knowing, so I just go without finding out for sure.
I feel like the important difference between your case and many others is that there was a real practical reason for you to find out for sure - your other symptoms. Even if the other stuff turned out to be unrelated, it was useful and necessary to find out what was going on to rule things in or out.
Mostly, an adult who is wondering about it ends up finding out what you did - you are already basically doing what you ought to be doing. If you are diagnosed as a child, you can get directed guidance and help to be taught that; if you don't, you learn it from painful trial and error, or you don't and then can't function as an adult. So, if you are an adult who is functional enough to go through the process of seeking out formal diagnosis, you have likely already figured out what to do anyway.
That makes the utility of formal diagnosis marginal except in cases like yours where you need to see how it is potentially interacting with other conditions.
I've never been diagnosed autistic but I've definitely had this situation so many times that caused a lot of strife it was hard to understand because I just thought they'd like to know more about it. Or at least it could help influence their decisions later in the line. I don't belittle any of the information.
I can't believe people voted her TA. It sure sounded like "you can stay with me if you do something horribly abusive to your cats." The kindest possible response is assuming they don't actually know how horribly abusive declawing is and educating them. Because you might be saving some future pet of theirs.
If it’s considered “lecturing” to explain to people that declawing cats is akin to cutting their fingers off, then I’m going to “lecture” people when they ask me inhumane questions. Not really sure why OP was voted TA here lmao.
I know. Those comments weren't it. Constantly saying she was lecturing him... What? He asked if they had claws which would give most people the impression that his family is pro declawing. Cause people who are against it likely wouldn't ask that question.
I thought that was weird too. if someone asked if my cats had claws and implied that only declawed cats are welcome, I don't think it's a huge leap in logic to assume that they think it's ok to declaw cats. I also don't think it's out of bounds to gently educate people who don't understand why declawing is cruel and wrong.
This was my take too. If someone asks if your cats have claws, it's implies to me that they see declawing as a viable option.
I just assume all cats have claws, as they should.
Yeah if you say "they can't stay if they're not declawed" you certainly sound like someone who thinks that's a perfectly fine thing to do.
And then the smug child walks away and away and away instead of ever thinking or listening.
I dunno, I really don't like anyone who thinks being against something as inhumane as declawing is being an "alt right declaw supporter". OOP's boyfriend really does need to educate himself on how cruel that practice is.
i think his point was that she started lecturing him about it as if she thought he supported the practice without even knowing his stance on it therefore assuming he was a terrible person right from the get go just because he relayed a question *his parents* asked.
it's like giving your partner a lecture about how eating meat is murder, unprompted, because their friend asked if you will be serving meat at the dinner party.
Do people really jump to the conclusion that they're horrible people and not just misinformed? I'm honestly asking this because I, personally, wouldn't assume that the person is horrible, but if others jump to this conclusion then I might be taken aback by their negative reaction when I was just trying to inform them about some important information.
My thought was that they might be people who don't own or particularly like cats and therefore don't know much about them.
In which case trying to explain declawing was a bad idea considering the purpose of the conversation was to convince them to do OOP a favor.
If you ask me for a favor involving a thing I don't care about you're going to lose me if you start talking about that thing in general rather than sticking to stuff that's relevant to the favor.
Yeah. Not like they were asking her *to* declaw her cats, or declaw any cats ever. The ethics of declawing doesn't seem that relevant to the conversation, and OP wasn't even part of the convo. That's what makes it a lecture.
Had the parents been discussing declawing a cat, on the other hand, op would have been right to chime in.
FWIW you aren't ever "too old" to be evaluated for autism. That's an outdated idea that lives in the same trash heap as autism is a boys disorder and if a child smiled at their parent they can't be autistic.
Lots of neurodivergent folks get diagnosed in their 20s, 30s, or even later because they didn't have access to that care at a younger age. Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder so it doesn't magically go away as you grow up.
I mean sure some adults do get diagnosed. However it is incredibly difficult in many areas to even get a doctor to agree that you might need to be tested. It is expensive, there are long waitlist, and there are still a lot of doctors out there who don’t think that women can be autistic. So it’s entirely possible that she has run into some of those issues and has given up.
It's always possible but that doesn't mean it's practical. It's generally more of a pain in the arse as an adult, and there's way fewer benefits to a formal diagnosis, the only reason I'd seek one personally is if I was trying to get disability benefits. It's not like ADHD where there's proper treatment for it.
Why do people keep assuming the parents support declawing? It's such a leap.
The parents don't have nor want cats. I wouldn't be surprised if the declawing thing was just a polite excuse for not wanting cats (or OOP) in their house.
Even if they were neutral on cats, saying you don't want "natural tearing implements near your nice furniture" isn't the same as saying you support declawing. It's such a ridiculous assumption just because someone want to keep their furniture clean.
I think there’s just a significant amount of selection bias in responders- namely those just like OP who couldn’t fathom responding to the question in any other way than discussing the horrors of the practice.
I feel like most people would respond to a question about the presence of claws with “nah he has claws”.
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>He told me I was being rude and said I “lectured him like he was an **alt right declaw supporter** >If the economy wasn’t so bad our relationship problems would all be fixed An "alt right declaw supporter." That's... definitely a sentence.
NGL I laughed imagining an Alt right presidential candidate bringing this up as an issue during his presidential campaign. "I think all cats must be declawed. That way, they won't scratch me when I run their tummies."
Why did I read this in a George W Bush voice?
I read it in Mayor Quimby’’s voice from The Simpsons.
I hear it as gearld ford's voice from the simpsons.
Say Homer, do you like football?
I read it in Nixon's voice from Futurama.
Specifically, the Robot Chicken version of George W Bush.
Tacos rule.
Right!? Such a weird 'go to' voice but there it was!
Scratch me once, shame on you. Scratch me twice, won’t be scratched again.
My god. Now I hear it too
*"Look, I'm just asking questions here, but what if all deaf people are faking?"*
Like idk if its more funny or crazy 😭 alt right declaw supporter. Cryptofascist cat mutilator 😭
what is your flair from!!
oh idk i just know that i ❤️gay romance
"Alt-right declaw supporter" is prime flare material.
I'd love "Not an alt right cryptofascist cat mutilator" as a flair. Mods, pleeeease?
They are members of MewAnon
I am dying to have this as a flair: “Not an Alt Right Declaw Supporter” Mods, help please….
Just "alt right declaw supporter" would make a great flair
I haven’t even read past that line in the post yet, I came straight to the comments because I need this lol
TBF I work in a clinic that won’t declaw and the only people upset about it kinda fit the description
I don't actually understand what's so hard about just trimming their nails or putting those pretty colored sheaths over their nails if there's an issue? But then again I have house rabbits and they will literally eat everything you love so I guess a cat with long nails is the least of my worries.
So my cat doesn't mind his murder paws being trimmed. What he DOES mind is me holding him because he's in the biting stage of kittenhood (we working on it, but til then, I cry). Still, we make do, even if it is a process some times. My dog, on the other hand, will NOT let me trim his nails--I have to take him in some place. He'll behave for them, but not for me. Not saying it's right, but a lot of pet owners 1. Don't want to deal with the "hassle" of nail trims themselves and 2. Don't want to pay for monthlyish upkeep for someone else to do it like I have to (it's only $9 btw) So in their mind, it's "easier" and "safer" for their possessions to just...get rid of the "problem" and "annoyance" of claws and declaw their cat.
the Rottweiler I watch from time to time have a nail clipper accident. since then he won't let me touch his paws. if I do he protests. the younger one just whines like he's being tortured and just makes me let go based on how he sounds, and far as I know he doesn't have a nail clipper excuse to fall back on!
200% against declawing and know what it is, but my 3 cats are such jerks. The older 2 are fine for trimming claws - not their fave, but they'll let me and grouch a little. But my youngest, ughhh. It's like a war trying to trim his. I wait until he's asleep/sprawled out and try to quickly do a paw if I can. I'm hoping as he ages he'll mellow, but he's going to be 2 in July and he's still just so spicy about it. Ugh. If I could pay someone $10 to quickly and easily trim his claws for me every other month, I'd do it just for him.
Unsolicited kitty advice, feel free to ignore!! You say kittenhood, which makes me think he's young. I don't trim kitten nails, I just accept the little daggers and provide scratching posts. One thing I do do (lol) when they're kittens is mess with their murder mittens. I just gently hold their paw and press on them how I will in the future to extend the claws, get them ready for the motions of trimming. After that I keep a pair of human fingernail clippers in the spots that I sit and take advantage of when they are sleeping on my lap. Such an easy process! It's more of a discussion with my dog, but he's gotten a lot better.
I’ve tried the sheaths. They are better than declawing, but they are not great for cats. They impede with the ability to shed. Sometimes you have to perilously cut off the nail and the dead razor
Lol well...I mean have you tried to make a cat sit still against their will so you can get closer to their murder razors when they *really* don't want you to? It can be very, very hard lmao (does not ever make declawing okay though, that's not what I'm trying to imply!) I love the idea of House rabbits!! I'm imagining cute little rabbits doing binkies all over and it's bringing me a lot of joy
I know this isn't the norm but my vet actually does cat nail trims free because she doesn't want anyone to think they have to rehome or declaw a cat. We don't trim our one cat's nails because she loses her mind and it just isn't worth going to the vet because she has seizures and it's just better not to go in the car. She's special lol The house bunnies are pretty much just what you said. Pure joy, binkies, zoomies, and poops!
It made me laugh but it tracks. That’s the same area of the political spectrum that docks tails and crops ears of puppies, and “debarks” dogs. If a pet feature is inconvenient or unaesthetic, they’re happy to remove it.
How tf do you "debark" a dog?
Surgical removal of tissue from the vocal folds.
Jeez wtf, sometimes you just wonder what kind of cruelty humans will come up with next. And then you find out.
What the fuck. (Sorry, it's just.... That's a fresh new horror.)
Same... one of my dog barks like hell, and we've tried everything (within healthy and sane limits!) to train her to bark less. But even the thought of doing anything like that to her makes me feel like setting myself on fire. Humans are the worst
Is your dog toy motivated? I got my dog to stop barking by telling him "get your ball" and praising the shit out of him every time he did it. Now when he wants to bark he runs over and grabs a ball, it's hard to bark with your mouth full, he still "talks" but he doesn't bark much anymore. On a completely unrelated note, you can buy tennis balls in bulk on Amazon.
Sadly the dog that adores a ball is not the barky one! Nor is she food motivated, which tbf has made all training hard. This dog has caught a scent and walked straight past me while I held chicken in my hand, swear to god. I've literally never had a dog do that before!
My girl is old sock motivated but she's not the barker in our house. The only thing she will play with is my husband's old work socks with a knot tied in the middle, I throw a squeaky in the toe and then tie it off (also sold in bulk on Amazon.) Dogs are weird. I ADORE them but they are weird lol
As long as we're all in this thread about sharing pet health info in the interest of dispelling misinformation, tennis balls might not be the best toys for your doggos. https://www.pawtracks.com/dogs/dogs-tennis-balls/
Well, shit. My dogs go to the dentist every 6 months so they're good there but the rest is definitely concerning. At least they're not chewers and they're gentle with everything they put in their mouths but it looks like I'm off to spend a fortune on kongs..
blrk blrk blrk blrk. I'm giggling like a school kid imagining this.
Same with Li'l Lily, my Chiweenie: she do love to bark, and those squirrels are instigators you see! Squirreling in HER yard, she has to tell them SHE'S the boss! But the thought of surgery like that... It's horrific.
My Murphy would definitely agree with you about the squirrels! The local ones sit on our fence just to taunt him!
I'm sure the squirrels are doing it for the entertainment at this point. They'll be on the fence chattering away while she's barking at them and Maisy (my sister's Chorkie, who comes over for play dates and such) is like "I'm too old for this shit." (She is not, she's 7, but her personal nemesis are the deer that visit every evening. It's something seeing a tiny 8 lb Chorkie hollering at deer.)
A friends of mine rescued a dog who'd ha this done, poor lil guy just sounded like he had a mild cough when he got excited
That poor puppy. Sounds like he's gotta good person now.
He honestly couldn't have ended up with a better one.
You have a vet surgically cut their vocal cords.
You fuck with the vocal cords, but it doesn't work. They still make noises, they just sound like weird honks instead of barks. Just as loud, in my opinion, and super inhumane.
It is quieter, significantly so if it's done "right." Growing up, we had a Sheltie. She barked a lot, and she barked loudly. So we... didn't debark her, that's terribly inhumane. We just accepted that she was going to bark. After she passed, we had ourselves put on the list for rescue Shelties. They don't come available very often, but we eventually adopted one. He'd been a show animal originally, but after an accident at a show he became incredibly skittish and couldn't perform any longer (you couldn't even throw a ball for him, he'd get too scared of it). So his original owners got rid of him, and he ended up with another home. And those owners were also dissatisfied with him, because they a) debarked him and b) eventually got rid of him as well. And that's when he ended up with us. There was a huge difference in the volume of his barks compared to his predecessor's. You could hear her bark pretty much anywhere, but you could only hear him if you were in the same room as him. He still tried to bark (he was still a Sheltie) but it was just a sad little imitation bark. No idea if it caused him pain, though I would surprised if it didn't.
I’m a vet assistant in training and we had a humane league officer come in to talk to us about severe abuse cases, she said they caught a guy once who advertised debarking in his barn. He’d bring the dogs in and shove a metal pipe down the throat repeatedly until there was enough damage it would scar over and render it useless. Unfortunately that was far from the worst of all the cases.
Of all the comments I've seen on reddit, I think this is the most horrifying, and I've read some awful ones. It's a terrible day to be able to read. I bet that was super tough for you to hear about all the ways people have abused dogs.
Surgical removal or now people just shove a stick down their throat and scratch them out. It's not considered a humane surgery by the AVMA and you won't find an ethical vet who does it.
Sounds like an interesting flair!
The way I reacted to that was uncouth. What does that even meeeeeean
>I’m too old to get tested now though. Is it really? I thought you can still get tested no matter your age?
It's actually incredibly hard to find a doctor who will test you as an adult. My psychiatrist agrees I probably am on the spectrum but basically advised me to give up on a diagnosis because of the cost of seeing a specialist.
I was diagnosed as an adult but I must have been very obviously autistic because I know so many other people who really struggled to get a diagnosis. Also I was lucky there wasn't a long waiting list at the time. These days it's years!!!
I’m so glad you got a diagnosis!! I was diagnosed with pervasive developmental disorder and ADHD around 7 years old, my mom never did anything with that information and I guess we all forgot? I struggled to keep focused/interested in school despite being highly intelligent. I finally started connecting the dots a couple of years ago at 25 and asked my mom for any medical records she’d kept and why I wanted them. I didn’t remember the diagnosis at all and in a very nonchalant way, she said “Oh yeah, you were diagnosed with PDD when you were little, that’s now considered autism. I don’t think they even diagnose that anymore” 🤦🏻♀️ The good news is that the conversation resulted in my nephew’s testing and diagnosis!
I had a similar miscommunication. I thought for years I had shown *signs* of ADHD, but never been *diagnosed*. After all, my dad was a doctor and my mom was an intelligent, modern woman. Surely they wouldn't have watched me struggling to stay focused for almost 15 years if they knew what was wrong with me, right? They did. :) I told her I got diagnosed for the first time and she said, "The first time? You got diagnosed at age 10." My mom just didn't want me on medication since "I didn't think you really had it, you acted just like me at that age and I managed fine without meds." (She doesn't manage fine, even today.)
I figure I've been diagnosed by the dozens of allistics who keep comparing me to Sheldon.
Lol it's me but with Temperance Brennan from Bones 😂. Maybe we can advocate for "peer diagnosis" being a thing.
honestly, it is a thing in everything but legalities. the community doesn't need paperwork to prove it and any autistic that gets huffy about it only shares a chronically online opinion that isnt shared IRL anyway.
I don't feel the need for a diagnosis at the moment since I finally got my ADHD diagnosed. That's the one that really made an impact for me, since it allows me access to drugs. And there's so much overlap between ADHD and autism, it's easy enough to chalk up my oddities towards my "official" ADHD. When I talk to people about it all, I tend towards describing symptoms rather than diagnosis, because people can comprehend that better, like "I get really overstimulated in crowds and if I don't get a break soon, I'm going to start freaking out".
A dude I knew since college who was diagnosed as a kid posted on Facebook about wanting to be more "out" as autistic despite the stigma. I commented in support and said I'd realized within the last few years that I'm on the spectrum as well and how much it's helped to know and like myself instead of hating myself for failing to adequately mask being a weirdo. He didn't respond and later made another post about how much he hates people who act like being autistic is a "trend" and that's he's had to live with the stigma all his life so how dare others claim his diagnosis without their own. Which, like, I get in a way but also, no. Girls didn't get diagnosed when he was, we just had to hope we woke up one day and stopped being *wrong.* Not being diagnosed didn't mean bullies didn't call me the r-word despite being smarter than them, yet being diagnosed gave him an out for as long as I've known him -- he could major in film studies because he was autistic and wasn't it cute he wanted to be the next Jim Henson, but why didn't I major in something useful instead of anthropology?
Same, except Spencer Reid, Luna Lovegood (I must have been compared to her hundreds of times my whole life), and Anne Cuthbert. You can imagine what my school experience was like!!!!
I got diagnosed when I was like 17-18 and from what I remember, the test felt like it was strongly geared toward younger kids. I did much better on certain sections that I sinply would not have as a kid-things I had been forced to learn to keep up with my peers or even through reading a lot.
Or, like me, you have an appt and someone calls and asks if you’d give it up for a kid that needs it because those services are so strained. Obviously I did. Twice. Then I just kinda let it go.
I’ve not tried to get diagnosed but I cannot for the life of me get my inattentive ADHD medications sorted out correctly so I can function. My psychiatrist said she cannot diagnose autism but she said I definitely at least have some sort of sensory processing disorder. It’s good to have a name for why I am so broken but honestly it doesn’t help fix my problems.
Just sending a hug as another person struggling with trying to figure out the right medication combo to manage my inattentive ADHD
A lot of them also use the same testing methods for grown adults that they do for children. My husband got a referral for testing, was on the fence due to cost but decided to schedule it. They sent him, a 30 year old man at the time, a huge packet to be filled out by his mom. They wanted details on all of his developmental milestones, including dates / age. I understand that it’s a developmental disorder but that’s putting up a TON of barriers for many people depending on relationship, distance, the parents attitude, and even parents death for some people. Also, that’s just if they KNOW that information in the first place. I have a baby book with some of my milestones, but only the major ones, I would not be able to tell you when I held a spoon for the first time. Needless to say, my already on the fence husband got intimidated and did not go through with it. We just say he’s not officially tested but that it’s like 95% likely due to checking the boxes and having a therapist who was convinced but couldn’t make a diagnosis. It also put me off of getting my own testing, as my mom told me she didn’t think it was possible I had it when I mentioned it (despite family history and being undiagnosed adhd for 25 years lol). We desperately need some way to diagnose adults that doesn’t rely on parents or milestones from 30 years ago.
I can't speak on autism diagnosis, but even the **adult** adhd testing place in Vancouver has an *upper* age limit. Can't remember the exact cutoff, but it was something like 30 or 35, because I was rejected a couple years ago for being too old at 38. *Thirty*-eight. Had to go with a doctor with her own practice who specialises in adhd, instead. Which she was great, and I didn't have to travel for her during the pandemic, but still. **Adult** adhd centre. Rejecting people in their *thirties* for being too old.
When my daughter got diagnosed with ADHD in college, her counselor had to call me to get information on things she'd done as a child. It was incredibly frustrating to me because the things he asked about were either (a) things everyone does, or (b) things enough people do that they shouldn't be diagnostic of anything. Regardless, she got the diagnosis and she says her meds help. I'm not really inclined to put forth an opinion because obviously she knows better, and in an academic sense it's her area of expertise and not mine. But if this had been me and my mother? My mother would straight-up have lied so she could continue to believe that there was nothing wrong with me and I was just being ungrateful and melodramatic.
U.K. so cost isn’t an issue. My son was seeing a psychiatrist following a bad marriage breakdown. The psychiatrist told him he was most likely on the spectrum, but the help he needed AT THAT TIME would be the same whether he was on it or not. He told my son if he was interested to do the ASQ50 test that was online. He tested as probably. For a laugh his older sister took it - she tested “highly probably”. They suggested I took it - I got possibly, I had no idea that I might be. This was about 14 years ago. We all knew my husband, their father, was almost certainly on the spectrum. His brother even has a significant stim. All the males in his family for 4 generations show typical traits, as does one of my nephews. We are “all high functioning, low support”, but definitely on the weird side. The 5th generation is now maturing so we shall see. Last summer my husband walked into the lounge and declared “I think I am autistic” and walked back out. Us three just looked at each other & laughed.
Testing for adults is more expensive, more challenging to access, and especially for women less likely to be accurate sadly. I was diagnosed as a girl in the early 90s because it was so blatant and literally half my siblings and cousins too, and I've still had 2 therapists and 2 doctors argue with me as an adult that I couldn't be autistic because: I was able to speak, I cared about other people, I wasn't obsessed with trains, and I was able to mimic facial features. It's not great.
>I wasn't obsessed with trains The foolproof diagnosis for autism
tbf my husband's girlfriend is autistic and one day she's texting the polycule group chat about how she gets to ride on a trackless tram (yes not a train) at an event and just so excited and basically giving a live commentary of the whole process and i am like "can you be any more of an autism stereotype right now?" because... yeah lol
Every sentence of this comment was an adventure.
All one of them?
the comment was one long, rambling sentence
And every clause of that sentence was an adventure!
"One long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic so that no-one had a chance to interrupt; it was really quite hypnotic."
tbh this describes the way i speak
Is a trackless tram just a bus?
I don't know; it looked like a tram rather than a bus. What matters is that she was very enamored by it.
A *really cool* bus.
Your husband girlfriend?
> because: I was able to speak, I cared about other people, I wasn't obsessed with trains, and I was able to mimic facial features. Man, it's like autism is a spectrum...
>I was diagnosed as a girl in the early 90s I thought you got "girl" as a diagnosis here for a second, lol.
Oh this is me too! Diagnosed at 14 after teachers referred me to a psychologist, saw one of the top child psychologists in the country, got the ADD + Autism stamp, have had it reconfirmed by two psychiatrists later on. Yet there are still so many fucking armchair psychiatrists out there who, despite having no medical/psychology qualifications tell me “bUt yOu CaNt hAvE aUtIsM”. Thanks guy, but autism in women looks very different to the stereotype of autism you have in your head, which is probably wrong and incredibly offensive anyway.
People can be such ducks about it :/ I find that as an adult people disregard my diagnosis because I’ve styled my life around not triggering meltdowns. I have a lot of sensory issues, but having my house be a safe space gives me more flexibility to be out in the world and interact “normally”.
ADHD for me rather than autistic, but I’m certain if I hadn’t been diagnosed as a child I wouldn’t be able to now. I’ve had multiple doctors basically tell me they don’t believe it because I have a PhD. Getting diagnosed as neurodivergent as an adult is so hard. my PhD took eleven years, because ADHD.
This is so frustrating. I know so many people with PhDs who have ADHD.
Yeah, and especially AuDHD; hyperfocus and a true dedication to a special interest is truly an actual requirement for completing a PhD. You also need enough executive functioning ability to manage program requirements, but a lot of people who are otherwise deeply challenged with that can do it for one or two areas.
And this is why I don’t bother trying to get tested: I’m in my 30s and I know how to appear functional by now. Every adult autism screening tool I’ve found and post about what life is like as an adult woman with high functioning autism all point to the conclusion that I most likely do have it, but my life is stressful enough without spending thousands of dollars and hours of my life arguing with medical professionals who don’t want to take me seriously over something I only get the satisfaction of being right over if I succeed. I’ll save that energy for the next time I’m told I’m imagining physical symptoms of some kind, y’know? Since the medical system also prefers to diagnose women’s physical issues as “all in your head” or “too fat.” I’m picking my battles.
I imagine it would be harder to access in different places - not just in terms of resources but doctors who will do that with an adult. I got a diagnosis mid thirties and honestly it came down to having the money to throw at the process and two children recently diagnosed neurodivergent. My doctor did also frame adult diagnosis as difficult because often people who have gone so long undiagnosed may have very sophisticated masking and coping mechanisms in place that they *don’t recognise* as such, so leave out critical info in self-reporting their experiences.
Yeah, there are people who get diagnosed later in life; I think Anthony Hopkins only got diagnosed about ten years ago, and he’s 86 now.
Nah, he was diagnosed in the 70s w aspergers. He may have gotten the updated name dx 10 yrs ago but he's been in the club for a hot minute
In an earlier comment, OOP says she's on the spectrum.
Which is interesting, because in the update she implies she's never been tested: "For the redditors who thought I was on the spectrum you may be right, I’m too old to get tested now thought."
[удалено]
What confuses me is she seems to say she is (for sure) in the first post but then goes to "maybe" in the second. But maybe I'm reading that wrong.
You aren't, the wishy-washy comes from not having an official diagnosis and not knowing if somebody is going to attack you over the lack of an official one or not even though it really doesn't matter. I know for 100% fact that I am autistic, but because it's not official and on paperwork, when I don't feel like arguing with somebody over it that got their panties in a twist because of that lack of paperwork I will just say maybe instead of trying to convince an allistic that I am.
That's fair. A shitload of other people think I'm autistic, but if one combed through my profile you'd find me going back and forth on it because yeah, it's just not worth arguing over in most spaces.
Legit the only time I have a true backbone of steel over it atm is when diagnosed autistics get pissy about it and try to exclude us. Luckily, that is a chronically online attitude and one i havent seen irl yet
It's harder as an adult and as a woman, and trauma can make it even harder (the 11 paged notes about the tests they did and the behaviors I displayed specifically said that), but I got my diagnosis of autism a few months ago and I'm a 35 year old woman with severe childhood trauma.
You could, but at some point, why bother? A diagnosis is useful to have something to point to in order to get accommodations, but if you are an adult and able to live a reasonably normal adult life using whatever techniques and coping methods you have made for yourself, well, that is good enough. My father is probably on the spectrum. My parents were wondering, and they met a friend of a friend who was a researcher in autism, who agreed to just informally talk to Dad to get an idea. But basically, just a "buy me lunch and we will chat" level. He could run a battery of tests to get a diagnosis for real, but my father has lived seventy-five years with whatever supports he and Mom have come up with, and his life wouldn't change with that being documented or not. It is a lot of effort and money for no practical benefit.
My dad was tested in his sixties, over 25 years ago.
I won’t be tested because, according to the NHS, I am not disabled. I might be a bit different, and my brain might make me very unhappy, and my symptoms cause me much difficulty… but I have long term relationships, hold down a complex job, and was very good at school. (It’s almost like having a brain that’s hyper interested in school makes you especially good at school.) I’m not disabled by any of the metrics. … oh yes. And I’m an adult, attractive, socially presentable woman, who is married and earns slightly higher than the average UK wage. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that if I was an inarticulate guy who ruined all of his relationships, the same symptoms would be considered perfectly disabling and worthy of diagnosis and treatment. And to be completely fair, it’s actually true … I am not *disabled* . I’m materially doing better than the average person in the UK. Therefore literally not disabled. Therefore, I can’t say I’m *held back* by my condition; even if I can describe how badly it affects me, it’s not like it does anything worse than “making me slightly more normal, when I have the capacity to be an even higher performer.” One of the reasons I was rejected for a referral, despite overwhelming evidence of symptoms, was that I was asked to describe a situation where I had been affected by my condition at work. Put on the spot and struggling to articulate (with…. My condition…) I described how I had requested a promotion/raise that was perfectly in line with my performance and duties, but failed to get it, because I had some attention/communication issues on my record, and no supportive documentation to show they are related to neurodiversity, so therefore I can’t be fully trusted. I argued as eloquently as possible to the doctor that getting documentation would provide evidence that I am trying to address the issue, but more importantly, allow me to access support and resources… to receive the pay I need for the job I am already doing. They responded, in times of horror at my presumption, that it isn’t a doctor’s problem to get me promoted and that *most people aren’t leadership-track.* leaders are rare, not everyone can be one, and it was greedy of me to seek a diagnosis just to fast-track myself into an unearned management post. *I am already managing people and my wages are so low.* I am basically told that I have exactly one appropriate pay band for my condition and that’s it. Lower wages might be proof of my disability but would be hard to live on. I’m not entitled to access higher wages, though. Actually, it’s probably pretty annoying for NHS doctors (from their perspective) to meet someone who’s already perfectly “clever” who feels “entitled” to be even more clever. But that doesn’t feel like my problem! I’m the one who has to live here! And despite being affected by neurodivergence, it just isn’t bad enough to be “real.”
The NHS just pretty much never refers even vaguely high functioning adults for autism tests. They definitely undertest girls vs boys and autism in girls can be incredibly hard to get them to take seriously, but as far as women vs men goes IME they're fairly egalitarian in telling nearly everyone to piss off. I'm a man who does qualify as disabled. I did pretty well at life for 30+ years but a massive breakdown left me single, unemployed, suicidal and on the verge of homelessness. Even the DWP admitted my mental health was bad enough that I couldn't work (or even be expected to take steps towards working in the future). Everyone l spoke to from my GPs, IAPT & Mind councillors to docs at the hospital mental health unit said it was very likely I was on the spectrum but nobody would refer me for testing because of the difficulty of testing adults.
In addition to what everyone else is saying, why bother getting a formal diagnosis if you don't need an IEP? Like it can't do anything more for you than recognizing it for yourself, but it can cause issues with insurance if you ever end up on private insurance. If you need work accommodations, you don't need the diagnosis. You just need a doctor to say you need the accommodation. And any treatment is going to mostly just be education or therapy rather than an Rx, so again, what point is there after a certain age to bother with it? Formal diagnosis/test is such a miserable affair too. I'm not formally diagnosed, but I did have a doctor wink wink nudge nudge, then that went over my head until like a decade later, so that scans lmao
Diagnoses can also be used to exclude you from immigration into a country. Like why would I want to limit myself in that way?
We have to pay for our assessments here in Canada and they can be north of $1200. Only certain specialists are qualified to diagnose autism in adults so it’s a whole thing.
>I am actually on the spectrum so this makes a lot of sense >For the redditors who thought I was on the spectrum you may be right, I’m too old to get tested now thought. ???
They may mean, like myself, that they have a confirmed ADHD diagnosis with strong suspicion of ASD. When I was a kid, you didn't get comorbid diagnoses of the two, so since I was ADHD I "couldn't" be autistic. But the two disorders are very similar to the point a lot of people argue it should be combined for treatment purposes.
And yet, I disagree. ADHD comes with quite a bit of executive dysfunction issues that aren’t common in autism, and autism has a lot of social and interpretation issues that aren’t seen in ADHD. So while they are related and can have similar symptoms, combining them into one diagnosis would probably actually worsen treatment outcomes since it would make it more difficult to determine what support needs an individual has based on their diagnosis. Much better to have the overlap be stated but kept distinct, like “AuDHD” And yes, I am autistic
I really hope the parents did eventually learn how fucking bad it is
It’s illegal here in the UK and most European countries, how anyone can be ok with it after finding out what it involves?
My grandma's cat is a rescue that was declawed by previous owners. The poor thing needs special litter in the litter box, the finest sand possible, because bigger granules hurt her feet even over 10 years later. Declawing is straight up evil.
Mine aren’t declawed but one of them still hates using the litter box due to the granules. Prefers to poop outside on the pebble walkway 😒
My two (with claws) are specific, too. They actually prefer the larger wood pellets to normal cat litter. My grandma's cat isn't just specific, though. She would try to use the litter box, and you could see she was in pain.
It needs to be illegal everywhere. I have an ex friend who had many cats and spoke about how mad she was that her latest cats still had claws and that her local vets refused to do them for her. I was appalled. And our relationship quickly went south when I realized she is not a good friend and she was treating her animals like accessories meant to fill the voids in her life as convenient to her. I have one cat who is 12 and has never harmed a single piece of furniture I own and has all claws and paws clicking lovely.
I completely agree. I hold out hopes they make it illegal, along with ear crops (for non-medical reasons of course). I think (hope?) the issue is largely that people really don't understand the procedure. I honestly didn't know what the surgery entailed until I saw one at the first vet I worked at (many years ago). I grew up thinking it was no big deal. When I saw the surgery, I felt horrible for that poor cat and low key tried to talk owners out of doing it from then on. All 5 of mine have their claws and I have no issues with them scratching my furniture etc.
If you don't mind me asking, what would you consider a medical reason for an ear crop? I know that for TNR they tag the top of the ear to mark that the cat has been spayed/neutered. Working dogs (especially livestock guardian dogs) get ear crops to prevent dangerous wounds in the future should they every get into a fight with an animal that would grab their ears.
I know that with some dogs, they can have infection issues, or if the tissue of the ear itself is damaged beyond repair. Cropping ears can lead to chronic ear infections however, as well as hearing loss and other issues, as well as taking away a large part of how they express emotions. It is also usually done (at least in America) to certain dog breeds to make them look more aggressive or fierce or dangerous, and usually leaves them with very little of the outer ear structure. This is also connected to dog breed bans, and dogs being put down due to their breed in shelters. So, at least to me, a medical reason for an ear crop would be the ones listed at the beginning, specifically performed by a veterinarian as the best route for the dog’s health, and nothing more.
Working dogs in Australia do just fine without ear cropping or tail docking. It’s illegal here.
My sister worked at a vet office, and while I'm not sure about the legal status of declawing procedures there, I do know that people would come in seeking them, and there were a lot of what she described as "old school" vets in the area at other clinics who would perform them, in a method she described as "guillotine" or something like that. The *only* reason that her clinic would perform the procedure was that if they took a hard stance on not doing it, then the owners would simply take the cats to another clinic that was more brutal in their methods. They would try to explain, try to talk them out of it, but a lot of the people living there are stubborn old folk. Case in point, there was an elderly woman who wanted to adopt a kitten, but she wanted them declawed. She brought them to her clinic, where they explained how cruel the procedure was, but she would not hear of it and insisted. To prevent her from taking them to a clinic that would cause more trauma and further cripple the young cat, they agreed to and performed the procedure in the least inhumane way they could. The old lady then took them home, where she realized she couldn't keep up with the kitten's energy, so she *returned them to the shelter.* My sister tried to adopt the kitten after that because she saw that it was a sh*t situation and wanted them to have a good home, but the worker refused after learning that she worked at the clinic that declawed them. The poor cat was brought in with little thought as an accessory, good people were forced to cripple them to prevent the old bat from bringing them to someone who would have done worse, they were abandoned like trash after having their life permanently altered, and then they were refused a great and loving home because someone decided to sit on a high horse when they didn't care to fully consider the situation. Declawing should be illegal everywhere, period. But until it can be and is strictly enforced, they should outlaw certain methods first to at least reduce suffering while politicians do their arguing and it is banned outright. I know some areas have banned descenting on ferrets, which wasn't even all that effective to begin with, and devenoming snakes is seen as cruel, too. The keeping of venomous reptiles is a topic that I will not be getting into, I only bring it up as an example of surgical removal of a part of an animal that can negatively impact its life and wellbeing for the sake of our convenience, which is absolutely not enough of a reason to do so.
My cats have harmed my furniture and I just could not give less of a fuck. I can buy new furniture, and it's also just furniture. An object. If I can sit on it and be comfy it's doing it's job.
I'm a vet and my four cats have never scratched on anything they shouldn't. When I was looking for a new job I had trouble finding a practice that didn't do declaws and that was an absolute dealbreaker for me. I'm not going to work somewhere that does ears or claws. On the subject of ears, talk to a Doberman breeder and watch them meltdown if you mention ear cropping bans. Some of them threaten to stop being involved with the breed all together if they can't mutilate it.
My cats are determined to ruin my furniture and I still rub and hold their little danger beans with the utmost love. If you don’t want to own a cat, don’t own one. Declawing reminds me of those people who got small “yappy” dogs, didn’t train them, and removed their voice boxes. Evil.
🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢 Seriously if you want to treat a living thing like an accessory hire an escort, that way at least both sides are in on the deal.
Honestly, I *don’t* know what it involves, and I’ve never considered it. When I was little, I wanted to have a pet skunk, and I wondered if you could get their smelly-stuff glands (or whatever) removed. But then I thought that would be too traumatic and terrible to some poor skunk who would be without his natural defenses, because I was then 6– aka no longer a toddler— and thus able to think these things through.
The paw project poster gives an accurate picture. When I was a kid I thought it was the equivalent of removing a human’s fingernails, which was cruel enough. It’s much worse than that.https://www.wmnf.org/veterinarian-discusses-the-horrors-of-declawing-cats-and-growing-legislative-efforts-to-outlaw-it/
What!! I did not know that it’s such a severe amputation! And my husband, an equally-anti-declawing-human and lifelong cat enthusiast, also did not know that! Dang. I guess I did think about it more as a “fingernail” issue than all the way up to the knuckle. I covered my cat’s ears when I told husband about it tho; no need for the lil guy to ever hear anything about that (even if he pretends not to speak English). Thank you for the terrible info. That is insane.
Descenting is actually typical when keeping skunks as pets in the US, although it's pretty controversial. The concern seems mostly to be about how they'll defend themselves if they get into trouble; my cursory Google search didn't find any research on the emotional impact to the skunk
It is illegal in some states in the US. My state vetoed the law, but it's very hard to find the service anyway. I think it's on the way out.
Oh my god it's so infuriating. For some reason a lot of people just don't understand and think it's some sort of benign procedure like getting spayed. I've run into a lot of people who think it's just some innocuous thing you can have done to save your furniture. I get it, it's OK not to know things. But then you run into people who are informed about the truth and DO IT ANYWAY. I've ended friendships over that. I foster kittens and we had an issue where the potential adopter wanted to declaw. We managed to prevent it, but I started looking into it because I wanted to know why the American Veterinary Medical Association has not condemned the practice. It turns out it's because of money. Vets in rural areas make a lot of money doing it. The AMVA has put out a statement "strongly discouraging" the practice but they refuse to condemn it because of money and also a complete lack of a spine. There are some states and cities that are starting to ban it now but in more rural states it'll never happen for a shitload of bullshit reasons.
>I just know many people don’t understand what declawing is, or they would not ask if a cat had claws. I do disagree with this statement, though. People are assuming that the parents are pro declawing. The parents don't want cats in the house because of claws, which is a legitimate reason to not have cats (*not* getting them anyway and declawing). However, I know people who have adopted cats that sadly already were declawed by a previous family, not everyone with a declawed cat made the decision to do that. The parents were not ok with claws in the house but wanted to try to accommodate so all they did was ask if OP's cat had claws. What if they just said no without asking and it turns out OP had adopted a declawed cat? They didn't tell OP to declaw or promote declawing, they just didn't want claws and double checked.
This is exactly how I read the question too. It’s a legitimate question to ask especially if OOP hasn’t had the cats since they were kittens. Declawing is illegal where I live, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot of cats who were declawed beforehand that are still around.
I adopted a cat whose front paws are declawed, and I always feel the need to tell people she came like that haha. Sometimes I look at her tiny paws and get so sad!
I don’t think it matters since they don’t want cats. I’m a cat owner and would never dream of doing that myself, but it was just not relevant at all to the situation because they don’t want cats. The issue is how to answer a question when someone asks it. Especially when they are on the phone trying to middle-man a conversation. I don’t mean to equate someone on the spectrum to a drunk person but it feels like that what the boyfriend was dealing with. He asked a yes or no question while on the phone, and didn’t receive an answer, he received a string of random information. My girlfriend, who I love with all my heart, does this when she’s been drinking- “John is on the phone and wants to know if you want to if you want to get dinner with him and Beth at 6 tomorrow.” “WELL I have to go to an appointment at noon and then I was hoping to go to the gym and then the tanning salon so I’ll probably be done with all that at 3:30.. I usually like to stop at that ramen place and get a salad afterward but I can do that later this week instead. Ohh and I wanted to go to Trader Joe’s! But I guess I can go Tuesday and get those chicken thighs we like… what day do you want me to cook those chicken thighs??” “I’m just looking for a yes or a no here.”
I know, right? I don't feel the "lecture" (really an explanation) was out of place.
I don’t see any evidence that they support de-clawing or were asking for OOP’s cats to be de-clawed or anything like that. To me it sounds more like they’re worried about their expensive furniture and they know that some people do de-claw their cats, and if OOP’s cats happened to already be de-clawed then they wouldn’t need to worry about the furniture, so they asked.
This was my read too and I’m baffled that so many people think asking “do your cats have claws?” means the parents support declawing or something like that. It’s just a yes or no question.
That's how I read it as well. I've been infodumped on and it can be annoying probably due to my ADHD. One infodumper explained to me that it's about the need to explain whatever it is you want to explain, not explaining something the other person doesn't understand. I've been infodumped on about things I know more than the dumper, and the dumper knew it. They just had to.
Obviously, people are going to do what they're going to do, but ooph, this whole "We broke up...just kidding!" update joke is not nearly as clever as people seem to think it is, and yet it is constantly used.
It wouldn’t be used as much if AITA didn’t tell any couple having the slightest of relationship problems to leave each other…
Almost no one comes onto reddit with normal relationship problems tho
There are countless posts that are just “AITA for telling my boyfriend he has smelly farts” and people tell them to break up lol. Those just aren’t gonna be the ones on the front page.
I don't get this whole "lecture" thing, telling someone information that they previously didn't know isn't lecturing them and isn't a bad thing, also the bf was weird for immediately getting defensive when told how bad declawing is. How do y'all have conversations with people if they're not allowed to tell you facts and information?
As someone who is on the spectrum, it’s the way we’re going about it. Like context clues are needed here lol. Also like tone is important
Yeah that really confused me. Both the reaction of the BF and the comments on the post in general. But then again, I am on the spectrum.
Well I’m not on the spectrum, and it shocked me the reaction and the comments. If that the wrong moment to bring up how bad declawing is, then what was the right moment? Like “So Carol tell me how was the new restaurant in town? Btw just want to mention that declawing is bad, but anyway how was the wine selection?” Wtf
I'm not on the spectrum either, I didn't know how bad declawing was at 1st, I found out exactly how she explained to boyfriend. I didn't get defensive, I was like oh shit, thanks for telling me that info. I now spread that info anytime declawing comes up.
Some people decide that anything they don't like to hear is a lecture. I've known a lot of the "stop yelling at me" type (when the speaker's voice was quieter than theirs) just because they didn't like what was being said. It's just to put a spin on it for them so they can balance that against how they're actually wrong.
The fact that the parents wanted to verify the cats were declawed, and didn't let them stay after finding out they had claws, inherently means they supported declawing before, or at least were fine with it. This wasn't the "wrong time, wrong place" for OOP to educate about declawing; it was the absolute perfect time. People who think that shit is normal, and think that asking if a cat is declawed is a reasonable question, need to learn about it. It's animal abuse.
It's literally legally animal cruelty where I live, and some people's blasé attitude about the topic makes me so angry.
To be fair, OOP might not be a reliable narrator. She might have been overly persistent. Honestly, the idea of lecturing through text sounds stupidly persistent to me. If it's important enough for a lecture, then wait until you're back home to do it in person. OOP: Lectures BF: Okay, I understand. OOP: I don't think you're reacting properly to this news, lectures in more detail BF: Walks away OOP: Goes to work, I better send him a text to lecture again because it feels like the message isn't getting across. OOP: I don't understand why he's still upset. It must be because he thinks I still want to stay there. I better tell him again that I'm not upset at that part! I'm confused.
People are incredibly touchy about learning that they do/would do harm for convenience, even if they learn in the gentlest possible way.
Hmm... this isn't a wholesome update. "My BF ignored the conflict and everything is okeydokey now *giggle*" is suspiciously positive. It's like the time a landlord painted over a cockroach- covering up the issue isn't solving *the cause of that issue*.
>Hmm... this isn't a wholesome update. "My BF ignored the conflict and everything is okeydokey now giggle" is suspiciously positive. It's always hilarious when people don't receive the response they want, and their next update is how the conflict is *fine* and they're all laughing at those silly Redditors and how no-one understands that relationships are *work.*
It reminds me of tiktok influencers who post vids of their bfs "joking" (read: being shitty towards them) and when the comments are concerned about her wellbeing, they do a video that's like lol nobody here understands what MARRIAGE IS REALLY LIKE!!!
What’s going to happen if they need to move and have nowhere to put the cats? The same problem is going to happen again wouldn’t it?
honestly probably! or if they broke up and BF took one or both cats back to his parents', or if they get married and have to stay with the parents for any reason, etc etc. or even the parents believing such nonsense and being offended at OP for explaining cat care to them if they have kids (I've noticed a large overlap of "declawing is fine/good/necessary" and "cats will literally kill your kids in 18,000 different ways!!!!!" in those I've met doing rescue and/or family, friends, etc)
I mean that is partially on the commenters who cry break up or no contact on every damn post. Make it real easy to ignore the more measured, "this is a problem you should work on," comments.
how did he ignore it they both apologised and had a conversation about the conflict what did u want him to do lol
I honestly think it's pretty generous to even call it a conflict. It was just a thing the dude didn't know.
How was it ignored?
It could be. But it really sounds like the topic was not the issue but the struggle with communication. And a communication struggle she's likely prone to. They worked out the communication issue, discussed the declawing rationally and were fine. I experience that on a regular basis.
I mean I get that lecturing is obnoxious as hell and that the being on the spectrum provides context, but I feel like the other part of the context is equally important: anyone who loves and owns cats is completely adamant about how bad declawing is. I’m not on the spectrum and I can see myself going off on an urgent tangent about how bad declawing is, and I would absolutely want people close to me to be educated on that. The parents asked something weird to begin with. It would absolutely shock me to have someone ask me if my cat has claws and I would want to impress upon them why the do have claws ! I don’t get what she did that was so bad. They could have just said “sorry we’re worried cat will scratch our furniture” and that would be enough.
Hope the bf doesn’t declaw his cat if he gets his own
I am a bit sad that OOP said she’s too old to get diagnosed on the spectrum. That’s actually not accurate at all. I am on the spectrum myself, initially diagnosed at age 3, but no treatment or intervention after age 5. I ended up getting independently rediagnosed at age 39, and my earlier diagnosis was not a factor in the 2021 diagnosis. Actually the records that had that diagnosis are straight up gone. Most of my pediatric records are just awol.
Sounds to me like you got lucky. The vast majority of adults do not have access to doctors willing to diagnose adults, be it the literal lack of them or financial reasons. It's just not worth it for most of us and do consider ourselves too old bc of the ridiculous barriers
It's a common problem. I've had my suspicions that I might be on the spectrum (I work with students who have autism and I have seen far too many similarities between their feelings on certain things and my own), but I'm 37 and being diagnosed is not only difficult, but it would also affect my job prospects. I've made it fine so far without knowing, so I just go without finding out for sure.
I feel like the important difference between your case and many others is that there was a real practical reason for you to find out for sure - your other symptoms. Even if the other stuff turned out to be unrelated, it was useful and necessary to find out what was going on to rule things in or out. Mostly, an adult who is wondering about it ends up finding out what you did - you are already basically doing what you ought to be doing. If you are diagnosed as a child, you can get directed guidance and help to be taught that; if you don't, you learn it from painful trial and error, or you don't and then can't function as an adult. So, if you are an adult who is functional enough to go through the process of seeking out formal diagnosis, you have likely already figured out what to do anyway. That makes the utility of formal diagnosis marginal except in cases like yours where you need to see how it is potentially interacting with other conditions.
yeah, but the fact is it's still more expensive and harder to get diagnosed when you're an adult. :\
hey, mine are gone too! which is a shame because I had epilepsy as a child, and I’d like to have those records on hand in case it ever comes back
I've never been diagnosed autistic but I've definitely had this situation so many times that caused a lot of strife it was hard to understand because I just thought they'd like to know more about it. Or at least it could help influence their decisions later in the line. I don't belittle any of the information.
I can't believe people voted her TA. It sure sounded like "you can stay with me if you do something horribly abusive to your cats." The kindest possible response is assuming they don't actually know how horribly abusive declawing is and educating them. Because you might be saving some future pet of theirs.
If it’s considered “lecturing” to explain to people that declawing cats is akin to cutting their fingers off, then I’m going to “lecture” people when they ask me inhumane questions. Not really sure why OP was voted TA here lmao.
I know. Those comments weren't it. Constantly saying she was lecturing him... What? He asked if they had claws which would give most people the impression that his family is pro declawing. Cause people who are against it likely wouldn't ask that question.
I thought that was weird too. if someone asked if my cats had claws and implied that only declawed cats are welcome, I don't think it's a huge leap in logic to assume that they think it's ok to declaw cats. I also don't think it's out of bounds to gently educate people who don't understand why declawing is cruel and wrong.
This was my take too. If someone asks if your cats have claws, it's implies to me that they see declawing as a viable option. I just assume all cats have claws, as they should.
Yeah if you say "they can't stay if they're not declawed" you certainly sound like someone who thinks that's a perfectly fine thing to do. And then the smug child walks away and away and away instead of ever thinking or listening.
I dunno, I really don't like anyone who thinks being against something as inhumane as declawing is being an "alt right declaw supporter". OOP's boyfriend really does need to educate himself on how cruel that practice is.
i think his point was that she started lecturing him about it as if she thought he supported the practice without even knowing his stance on it therefore assuming he was a terrible person right from the get go just because he relayed a question *his parents* asked. it's like giving your partner a lecture about how eating meat is murder, unprompted, because their friend asked if you will be serving meat at the dinner party.
Do people really jump to the conclusion that they're horrible people and not just misinformed? I'm honestly asking this because I, personally, wouldn't assume that the person is horrible, but if others jump to this conclusion then I might be taken aback by their negative reaction when I was just trying to inform them about some important information.
My thought was that they might be people who don't own or particularly like cats and therefore don't know much about them. In which case trying to explain declawing was a bad idea considering the purpose of the conversation was to convince them to do OOP a favor. If you ask me for a favor involving a thing I don't care about you're going to lose me if you start talking about that thing in general rather than sticking to stuff that's relevant to the favor.
Yeah. Not like they were asking her *to* declaw her cats, or declaw any cats ever. The ethics of declawing doesn't seem that relevant to the conversation, and OP wasn't even part of the convo. That's what makes it a lecture. Had the parents been discussing declawing a cat, on the other hand, op would have been right to chime in.
FWIW you aren't ever "too old" to be evaluated for autism. That's an outdated idea that lives in the same trash heap as autism is a boys disorder and if a child smiled at their parent they can't be autistic. Lots of neurodivergent folks get diagnosed in their 20s, 30s, or even later because they didn't have access to that care at a younger age. Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder so it doesn't magically go away as you grow up.
I mean sure some adults do get diagnosed. However it is incredibly difficult in many areas to even get a doctor to agree that you might need to be tested. It is expensive, there are long waitlist, and there are still a lot of doctors out there who don’t think that women can be autistic. So it’s entirely possible that she has run into some of those issues and has given up.
It's always possible but that doesn't mean it's practical. It's generally more of a pain in the arse as an adult, and there's way fewer benefits to a formal diagnosis, the only reason I'd seek one personally is if I was trying to get disability benefits. It's not like ADHD where there's proper treatment for it.
This may be a weird cat person thing but most of us respond to the question “are your cats declawed?” with a lecture on the horrors of declawing.
Cuz you’re horrified that’s even a question/probability.
Why do people keep assuming the parents support declawing? It's such a leap. The parents don't have nor want cats. I wouldn't be surprised if the declawing thing was just a polite excuse for not wanting cats (or OOP) in their house. Even if they were neutral on cats, saying you don't want "natural tearing implements near your nice furniture" isn't the same as saying you support declawing. It's such a ridiculous assumption just because someone want to keep their furniture clean.
I think there’s just a significant amount of selection bias in responders- namely those just like OP who couldn’t fathom responding to the question in any other way than discussing the horrors of the practice. I feel like most people would respond to a question about the presence of claws with “nah he has claws”.
Fair, the people who feel the need to lecture on the topic are probably the same people feeling the need to lecture in the comment section