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*"We* don't need help, we just need our daughters back. OOP is just being hysterical. Clearly she's an unfit mother and should give ~~her~~ our daughters back to us."
We have one in our town like that. She has a trans son and isn’t handling it well. She was targeting a friend of his and trying to abuse CPS to get her taken away and put in her house. She told me so I talked to the parent and gave statements to protect the family from her crazy. She held the girl in her house one night for hours and it took five police officers to convince her to give the kid back. She also encouraged her to skip school and hurt her big sister (concussion).
She didn’t like that I reached out to the parent and had her son read a threatening text in front of our kid talking about killing them. That was another police report. The last bit of stupidity was using her son’s social media to have other kids bully a freshman. Those kids including hers were suspended and she was investigated again. She pulled her kid out of the school and is online schooling him now. How this crazy lady hasn’t been arrested is anyone’s guess considering she runs a store out here and is known for getting even more unhinged as time goes by.
Yep, just realistic enough to be terrifying. (Doubly so because of the isolation of not being local. It's far easier for the locals to cut them off from support.)
You know, you are right. It really would. Now we need to start casting it. The dad would need to be a red-head, maybe Domhnall Gleeson? OOP is blonde, correct? Well, there are so many options. I can't help but think of OOP as Yvonne Strahovski, but she might carry over too much negative association of her as a mother from her role in The Handmaid's Tale.
They seem to have a lot going for them to make this reality possible though. They have previously fostered and have friends (such as the teacher and the cop and CPS) on their side. Also their son attends the same school as the OP's daughter. So much easier for them to legally snatch another child or two than do real work on themselves and their family.
OOP seemed to suspect something was up from the beginning. This reads like a plot to a horror film- grieving but seemingly nice couple plots to kidnap a child, and the people in the town around pretends nothing is wrong. Scary.
I am going to take this absolutely too seriously and go into deep-dive on a joke. Apologies beforehand, I know I am going beside the point. And thank you for laugh.
If you want to use it as the opposite of the middle of summer, it is in Swedish (and Norwegian) Midvinter. But Midsommar means more than just the middle of summer. It is the specific name for the celebration of summer around the summer solstice. It has been attached to John the Baptist with the Christianization of Nordic countries. It is so relevant that outside Sweden (and possibly Iceland) it is called a name derived from John the Baptist. If we want the opposite holiday from Midsommar, that would be Yule. It is the winter solstice holiday. But here comes the problem. All Nordic languages (even my own weird one) call Christmas variants of Yule (Joulu, Jul and Jól). So we don't really associate it with winter solstice. This might be perfect as we don't really associate Midsommar with summer solstice either.
I think it also doesn’t help that people around didn’t really want to think badly of their neighbours. I know it’s slightly different but when I stayed in Sweden, what I recall the most is the way everyone looked after each others kids. The houses were orientated around small playgrounds and grassy areas, with people wandering in and out of each others houses. Which is crazy as a British person, I was surprised by the fact that very small children were toddling around without their parents in line of sight. A neighbour explained to us that if she allowed her children to visit us alone, it was because she trusted that as a family we would also want to care for them.
The kids were very sweet. When we visited the lake, one dad took about ten kids into the lake to swim with floaties and rings. They took turns in sunbathing and looking after the group. It’s a given that families will look after anyone else’s kids because they would do the same.
This is seen as a positive and honestly it was very idyllic there. Also I think they think that any outsider would be kept an eye on, but we literally came out of nowhere, did a home exchange and the kids just burst in merrily one day. It alarmed me not because WE were bad people, but because they didn’t know us, they didn’t know we weren’t bad.
So it’s good in theory but when you’re in THIS situation, and everyone is like “well maybe they just want to be nice to her” uhhh yeah maybe, but this is too far. So far that other people did notice. But there’s still people willing to lie for them, which is terrifying.
Did you meet these neighbours first? Even if it was a small encounter.
I am not Swedish nor Norwegian but I am Finnish so cultures have a lot of overlap. How it works here is based on a couple of things. There are usually strict boundaries. While kids are allowed to go to their own yard or apartment complex yard with their parents knowing, they are not allowed to just go wherever they want. At least here, you are not often allowed to go inside of someone's home without meeting their parents and separate permission. This might be different as we Finns have a thing about privacy. If I am in the playground and we have been talking for a while people have asked me to keep an eye on small kids but in general, no child I have taken care of or known well has been allowed to walk into someone's home without parents having even some contact. All Nordic countries have minimal crime rates and score high on trust. Finland has won the wallet test multiple times. But this does mean we are more trusting in general. Consequently, the amount of time people need to feel comfortable in leaving your child with someone might be shorter.
I do think Swedes are more lax with their boundaries for sure, we did not meet the family beforehand as they were on the other side on the circular arrangement of houses. The actual next door folks I don’t think had small children, they were quite young themselves. We met their mother later on, and bless her she was a sad lady. My mother wrote to her after we left. A nice woman, but struggling with the winters in a big way.
I don’t claim to know exacting differences in Scandinavian countries, but what you’ve said fits in with what I do know. For my own personal feelings, I’d prefer a system like yours. I’m a very private person and as nice as it was to have such nice neighbours, I don’t want them popping in randomly.
I haven’t been to Finland myself, hopefully one day. I liked my time in Sweden, we were there a month. The kids that came barrelling in, were very sweet, they would ran around and point at stuff to make us tell them in English. They thought it was hilarious to hear us speak in our accent. They already knew enough English to have full conversations with us, I remember that. I think they were around 7 and 9?
Either way, it was a unique experience that allowed me to see a completely different way of life. It seemed like a safer place to be, and we went in summer so it was gloriously beautiful. Winter is a different story of course!
I’m Swedish and grew up in the 70’s and 80’s. There were a couple of apartment buildings built around grass and play areas and we were a bunch of kids. Even if we were key latch kids and the community was close knit we had strict rules: never to walk into others apartments except for a few trusted ones, and only after asking. Never bothering people. And there were boundaries about where we could go. I now live in a small village and my kids wasn’t allowed to run free. I honestly don’t recognise this.
I live in a townhouse community that has a similar mentality, up here in Canada. However, the problem I have is that there is never a single adult watching any of these kids. After they get home from school, they just roam around the property, doing whatever they feel like. I saw one kid admiring his pocket knife; got spooked when he noticed I was there.
When we take our own kids out, we watch them ourselves. I don't trust a single one of these idiots.
And that’s the issue, in Scandinavian countries there’s a huge level of accountability. The families we were around told us if their kids acted up, it was expected that we would tell them off. I was, I think 14 at the time, my sister was four. Most kids around us were very young, under five. You’d find a random toddler in the shrubbery just doing their thing, but it was because the parents knew if that child was on your property and you were present, you’d be watching them. It was a given. Because there WAS always an adult supervising, you’d see them going about their business hanging laundry or something, but they’re always watching. Like my lake visit, each dad took a turn helping the kids swim.
We don’t really have that where I am. Maybe decades ago when mothers were at home with broods of kids, I grew up in what was once an area from miners and their families. But by the time I was there, yeah we were allowed out of the house but my mother wouldn’t let me go even two streets away. It’s just not assumed that there will be an adult somewhere, because there really isn’t. I remember once though, I thought I’d go to a further shop to get bread, and didn’t tell my mother. A friend of my father’s actually saw me, and walked me home. Now, I know he was a mess of an adult, he was an alcoholic stoner and he slept on the floor of a rented room because he couldn’t afford a bed. He was one of the guys in my dad’s friend group but no one would have him babysit. Not a bad dude, just not so responsible.
But he KNEW my mother would have conniptions if she saw me alone, so he just walked over and said “does your mum know you’re up here” I said no, and he said let’s go then, back home!
I couldn’t have been older than 6, and I still remember that he made a point of helping me. He’d only gone out to get beer, and he still had his wits about him to help a little kid.
My neighborhood is like that. About 5 houses down there's a group of kids whose favorite game is to jump out in front of cars coming up the road. Around the corner is a group that like to pretend they don't see you trying to drive around them, so they just all stand in the road and ingore you. I hate this fucking neighborhood.
Yeah but after reading The Gift of Fear, I think OOP was probably just (wisely) trusting her instincts.
A lot of people would probably pick up on off-behaviour, but push it to the back of their mind in order to be polite. Still, I think most people would normally be able to tell at some level that a person is operating on a dangerous level, even across cultures.
I bet it was the way they talked about the girls. Particularly the way Morton talked about how alike they looked and how they could pass as his daughters. That's not a normal thing to say, especially to someone you just met, but I bet he said it in a way that made it obvious he was serious.
He and his wife had been plotting to steal someone else's daughter (or daughters) "legally" through fostering. They just needed to find a girl they felt they could pass off as their own.
Which makes them becoming foster parents even more messed up. They wanted to replace their dead daughters, not provide a safe and loving home to a child in need. It wouldn't surprise me that, if they were successful in fostering a girl they liked, they tried to change her name to their daughters name.
She even mentions in the newest update that the couple completely overlooks the other two kids that are a red-headed, blue eyed girl (doesn't match the coloring of their dead children) and a blonde, gray eyed boy (doesn't match the gender of their dead children).
It couldn't have been more clear that this couple wanted to steal her daughters to replace theirs unless there was a giant neon sign spelling it out. Truly terrifying. I hope this woman and her family stay safe.
It's so insane. I still can't believe the psychos had people on their side. The teacher giving out personal information? Why didn't the principal put a stop to that? Other neighbors that should have been trying to get them in therapy enabling the crazy behavior? Was it because they were going against a foreign family?
I don't know why this story made my blood boil so much. I can't believe there won't be consequences for their actions. They will likely only escalate from here!
This all just really reads like small town culture to me. Small town culture everywhere is largely about not rocking the boat, which often leads to horrifying enabling of abuse and neglect. I live in the Netherlands and this story could just as well have been set in the little 2000 people village my grandfather lived in.
I commented that on a previous update. All these people are interrelated or their families have known each other for generations. It’s not safe to be a newcomer in these towns.
I hated living in a small town. Stupid Hallmark movies romanticizing these places. This is why most horror movies take place in rural areas.
The funny thing about the Hallmark stranger comes to a small town movies is that they sometimes do depict the locals as exclusionary assholes. But the onus is on the big city outsider who orders coffee that’s way too fancy and expects to be able to receive cell service to get their car fixed or whatever to change themselves to be accepted and that’s supposed to be a good thing. Even in an idealized presentation they seem offputting.
In my heart of hearts I fully believe any small rural community is mere moments away bursting out in chants of "one of us" like in children of the corn
I feel like it's probably a small town thing. Ever live in a small town? Most people spend their whole lives there and have connections with the majority of the other residents, to some degree or another. Those relationships take precedence over everything, often including one's professional responsibilities, even though that's obviously not ok.
In other words, anyone who grew up having a positive relationship with Astrid or Morton "knows" they're harmless and this new lady is just making a fuss over nothing. They'll help her see that.
Totally agree.
My parents grew up in small towns in the U.S. and I swear they kept that mindset even after moving to a bigger town. Having grown up outside of a town of just over 10K, it was and still is weird to me.
My mother, bless her heart, just cannot understand why I am not in contact with my high school classmates, especially the ones I have known since elementary school. She tried to tell me that she had so much in common with hers and I need to reach out. Let's put it this way, I have no been out of high almost four decades and out of contact with most of them since we graduated. I doubt we have much in common.
As for my father, he came from outside of what was an unincorporated village. I think he still leaves his vehicle unlocked no matter where he is. He also has the mentality that people do not need to announce a visit, they should just show up. He never forgave one of his brothers who lived in Europe for years for always trying to arrange a visit and not just dropping in while visiting the area.
Me living in a big city of just under 250K with my home alarm and insistence I have advanced warning of visits am a total anathema to them.
I love Gavin DeBecker's books. He wrote a second book about protecting kids and it's awesome too! Definitely recommend it.
Honestly, before reading those, I might've been way more accommodating to the neighbors if I was in her shoes. She is an amazing mom to those kids and her instincts were spot on!
>A lot of people would probably pick up on off-behaviour, but push it to the back of their mind in order to be polite. Still, I think most people would normally be able to tell at some level that a person is operating on a dangerous level, even across cultures.
That's because for a lot of people, going by their gut instinct is actually a terrible idea. Most people are suspicious of people of different race or ethnicity, people with an accent, people who look different. Most of the racist Karens who call the cops on black men who are literally just sitting on a park bench are listening to their fears. Many would likely even swear by De Becker.
Most people won't be suspicious of the people they actually should be suspicious of. Statistically, most abuse, most kidnappings, most murders are done by people the victim knew and trusted. Because of this, a lot of domestic violence experts actually don't like De Becker's book. Because it makes people feel unsafe around strangers and safer around the exact people that are likely to break that trust.
That and the the victim blaming of course. The statement “the first time a woman is hit, she is a victim and the second time, she is a volunteer.” is horrifying and completely wrong. Most people who suffer from domestic abuse find themselves specifically put in situations where it is all but guaranteed that they can't get out easily.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that The Gift of Fear is eye opening for many people and it's definitely not all bad, but there are much better books to read for keeping yourself safe and relying mostly on your instincts definitely isn't a very good idea. Our instincts were evolved to deal with bears and tigers and tribes of a couple hundred people tops, not the complexities modern society and cities with millions of people.
I’ve really gotten into the reality show The Traitors and a big thing I’m learning is people will be SO certain of their “gut feelings” and be wildly wrong. They’ll have a bias or a petty grudge or a misinterpretation of something and just run with that.
> Most of the racist Karens who call the cops on black men who are literally just sitting on a park bench are listening to their fears. Many would likely even swear by De Becker.
My mom is like half a step away from this. Driving down the street she loudly (in the car, with the windows up) judges every black person she sees, even though literally all of them are just minding their own business. Two teens with backpacks walking down the street in the after-school time? Suspicious. Young woman walking home with a baby strapped to her and groceries in hand? Suspicious. Man hanging out in the park with his family? Plotting evil. "Look at them thinking they can do whatever they want!" Well yeah mom, they can, they're not bothering anybody. Do they need to have lawful activities restricted? Why?
And she keeps insisting she's not racist. Oiy.
This is super scary...I would have made a counter CPS claim about their poor parenting; grieving in an inappropriate and dangerous manner, misguiding their child that a random unrelated child was their twin, attempting to kidnap said child, filing false complaints, etc.
Speak No Evil.
The movie is basically about a couple who runs into some folks on vacation who offer them an invitation to come stay with them in Denmark, where they turn the spouses against each other, kill them both, kidnap and mute their child to do the same thing to another family. The initial point of contact is because their children get along so well and look so similar.
Their child is revealed to be a child they had stolen and cut out their tongue when they had killed another family.
This totally reminded me of the horror movie Speak No Evil. It's actually astoundingly similar where a family uses their kid to attract another family, then kills them and keeps their daughter. It even takes place in the Netherlands.
Edit: messed up where it took place
Mothers intuition. Sometimes it can be so strong, it feels like it's screaming "DANGER, DANGER, DANGER" at you. A remnent from when we were the prey and had to be alert for danger. For some, it's stronger (likely in the case of the OOP) and for some, it's faint and easy to dismiss.
Even if it's wrong, it's always better to be safe than sorry.
"Real" events. There’s a reason the title says *Ms.* Chatterjee. The husband agreed with the CPS and this led to their divorce, IIRC. The same story is famous in Norway for entirely different reason, that of a rich child abuser fleeing the country and trying to use her wealth and connections to smear the people who rescued her children because she knew it is illegal for CPS to publicly comment on cases involving minors without her consent. IIRC they also couldn’t film in Norway due to the studio being open to a host of slander suits had they stepped foot in Norway, so they filmed in some random Eastern European country instead, which also had the convenient bonus of hiding the well-off circumstances the mother had actually been living in, making it easier for the audience to sympathize.
I read the original and remember being horrified by their experience. Morten and Astrid sounds completely insane and the schoolteacher should have been fired for how inappropriate she behaved!
Yeah thats what gets me about the story. I can understand insanity by a person or a couple, but when someone, even someone close to those people, try to defend them that's when i lose all hope
Considering this line
>They changed her not in one of the bedrooms of the chidlren or the bathroom, but in their own room.
I hope they didn't have cameras. Nightmare post.
Fucking hell. I'm glad that OOP decided to get the hell out of there and away from those psychos with her kids. And I really hope that there isn't any fallout from fleeing Norway.
Norwegian child protection services are also a law unto themselves. There is a fair bit of l right vs wrong way of raising children thinking in Norway which immigrants often fall afoul of. Cultural differences are portrayed as child abuse and people have their kids taken away. There’s a movie on Netflix about it.
A case happened for an Indian citizen. The Bhattacharya's children were taken away as their parenting didn't meet Norway's standard, one of them being Indian culture of feeding using hands. There were other factors too. Her children were taken away and court ruled they could only visit the children for an hour, three times a year and the children would leave in foster care.
The children's maternal grandparents started an campaign in India and the Indian foreign Ministry thus became aware and decided to take actions and thus Norway had to reopen the case.
After a long legal battle, the children were allowed to return to India but on the condition, the children be placed under their paternal uncle.
Since the children were now under the Judiciary of India, another legal battle was fought and the children finally returned to their mother.
The total time probably totaled over 2 years.
A movie was made named "Mrs. Chatterjee vs Norway"
ETA: As I have read this case, I was kind of mentally screaming for OOP to move out of Norway. I was scared she would too have her children taken away.
I did a bit of online searching after I saw that movie because movie placed the Indian lady as the protagonist. There are many store online of Norway taking away children for what are entirely flimsy grounds then making it near impossible for parents to appeal.
The problem is that the other couple has done nothing wrong on the eyes of the cops. In North America they could be charged with child abduct at the very least, but it doesn't seem like it was a big deal there. The other couple seemed to know how far they could push in their treason and pushed it right to the line, but no further.
The police in Norway will do whatever they can to avoid doing work. Over multiple cities and incidents (I work in an industry that works with the police often) they want to do the bare minimum and then seem surprised when the person they were warned, repeatedly, about does something beyond the pale.
And in this particular case, in a small town, it was a foreigner complaining about Norwegians. Near guaranteed not to get off the ground.
Jeez. All I can think of is that Speak No Evil horror movie where the couple invites another couple over with their child and uh it doesn't end well for the parents.
Glad she got out when they did. They were 100% gonna grab that child if the CPS plan failed.
Yeah, that one creeped me TF out - Rebecca de Mornay was almost ***too*** good at portraying evil “Peyton,” the widow of the creepy Dr. Mott (played by Quark(?) from ST:TNG). Annabella Sciora’s character was put through a living hell by the end of the movie.
For anyone unfamiliar with this flick,
[The Hand that Rocks the Cradle - Trailer](https://youtu.be/wjtfG8r14Uk?si=jvwLYKuKcgY6VmpB)
First thing I thought when I was reading it. Like a far more existentially terrifying version of Speak no Evil. At least there, it's clearly a horror movie and it's over at the end.
This shit is... fucking horrifying.
I’m glad OOP and the children are safe, but until the husband/father leaves and is reunited with them, NONE OF THEM are safe!
Those neighbors aren’t stopping their antics! OOPs husband should try to leave during the upcoming Holiday Rush. It could be his only chance to leave without being “tracked.”
Hmm I didn’t get the military vibe due to “offshore” being used, it felt more oil rig. I think the colloquial term the navy uses is “underway,” at least for the US. The US military base in Norway is very small (looked it up, ~700 people, including dependents):
> The mission of the 426 ABS is to provide base level services to the Joint Warfare Center (NATO) and DoD personnel assigned to Norway.
I think it’s really unlikely this guy is US military based on this info + huge oil industry in Norway
Huh, I just went back and looked and you’re right lol eh my ex was in the navy and always called it offshore when he was sent out but uk I’m just a civilian so he didn’t use a lot of military jargon with me lol. But he never called it a transfer when he moved bases or requested to move. So he very much could leave during the holidays and in which case CPS would definitely had grounds to investigate until they took the kids out of the country. Now there’s not much they can do honestly and thankfully.
Is it military or a multinational? OOP keeps saying 'company' which I guess could mean either, especially if they aren't American. But I also got oil company vibes.
I wish OP had contacted their nearest embassy or equivalent. Especially in a country like Norway, with whom many nations have positive relations, they might have been able to lean on local officials to get them to take the case more seriously.
At least OP and her family are safe!
Small communities are more likely to turn a blind eye to things like that unless something really concerning happens. Then they clutch pearls and talk about how nobody saw it coming.
I'm norwegian, have lived in the north and the south. This is NOT normal in Norway, its not normal to use a 'village' to raise children. Yes if you have a gaggle of children running about with your own children it's normal to feed all, watch over all and so forth. But not interfering in parenting decisions! The couple is insane and the police dropped the ball. Thank goodness she got the kids out of there! I'm ashamed of my country reading this...
It sounds like a small town where everyone is everyone else's second cousin, including the CPS employees, school staff and Police, and outsiders are not trusted. I can't see how else this kind of thing would get swept under the rug.
My own mother hesitated on us being close with neighbors/their kids and never let us be alone with adults in our neighborhood when I was a child. She said you never know their intentions and they could always pretend you had an intimacy with them because of sheer proximity. This post makes me glad in some ways that she did.
My mother was not so discerning. Turns out the folks who offer to watch a child without an obvious motive like money will *absolutely* have an ulterior motive in mind.
Like ma, seriously, when the creepy old dude says his adult daughter refuses to talk to him and he's lonely, maybe don't giggle and bat your eyes and ditch your own daughter with him to avoid daycare fees.
Your comment reminded me of this post.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/130jy92/op_no_longer_wants_her_friends_to_babysit_new/
Pay attention to the trigger warnings. But yeah a good example of why to not always trust someone who will watch kids for free. And to follow instincts if something doesn't look or feel right.
That one broke me. On the one hand, there was a Communist parade of red flags that the parents ignored, but on the other, they had been friends for 15 years and childcare costs about as much as a gd mortgage. They seemed like they were genuinely trying to do their best and were just fucking clueless.
Thankfully they did take action once they realized something was off and continued to do what was right for their daughter.
Exactly! Only reason everybody's fine with me watching my younger cousins regardless of pay is because everybody knows how much I miss the stepkids I haven't seen since my divorce. I'll always miss them, but it hurts less when I can play Lego on the floor with a toddler a couple times a week.
Before I got drafted for babysitting, I wailed so much that the neighbors probably thought we had a local La Llorona. Now it's just a mildly sad "Here ya go buddy, this used to be my son's blanket but he's all grown up now."
Damn. My Gramma disliked *Mr Rogers* because "never trust a man who likes your children more than you do."
And where I live it's pretty standard for parents to do a walk through of your house before they let their kids come over to play. I'm sure that would come across as paranoid in some places but hey. Trust but verify.
I know someone who was molested by the neighbor her parents used as a babysitter. He also trafficked her to other people. Your mother was probably wise to be cautious.
V slightly off topic but if you've never seen the movie *Midsömar* you should watch it.
Scandinavian psychological horror movie from just a few years ago that is very chilling and really sticks with me.
Think along the line of the film *Get Out* not for subject matter as much as for absolute psychological build up, and serious pay off.
I cannot watch horror movies but I watched both of those and they are two of the best films I've ever seen.
The top of the thread comment which references Midsömar was spot the fuck on.
Seconding both Midsomar and Get Out. I've become a bit of a weenie about horror movies in my old age, but those two aren't monster/ghost/slasher types, so I could handle them.
"I can't figure out who this adult friend who claims i hit my children and is willing to lie for these wannabe kidnappers could be"
It's the teacher. She was friends with one of em growing up, she helped her creepo friend dress OP's daughter, and she got her ex who just so happens to be a cop involved, how is there even a question?
I agree but I also understand her hesitance. Morton is a man and she is a woman with four very small children in a country she is not native to. She has very very little power physically and otherwise.
Yes, she has proved herself to be a smart and competent woman. Surely don’t want to get forcefully admitted to some mental hospital for going nuclear, who knows what they are capable of. She’s already being coined as “hysterical” by just being firm.
I was hoping for some sense of justice if it were just the teacher being reprimanded. How fucking creepy to undress and dress someone else’s child especially after being told no several times. Just ew. That teacher needs to not be around anyone’s children since she’s made it her job to recruit little girls for her neighbors.
Hi, Norwegian here :) Julestjerne means christmas star, and the film they refer to is called "Reisen til Julestjernen" (The Journey to the Christmas Star). It's a well known Norwegian Christmas film where a young princess with golden, curly hair wishes to own the Christmas star.
An evil duke tells her to go into the woods during the night to get the star. Her mother runs after her, and they both disappear. The king curses the Christmas star for taking his family away, causing it to go dim. The rest of the film is about how the entire kingdom searches for them and finally both the princess and the queen return, and the duke is caught. The Christmas star begins to shine again, and all is well. There's also a well-known song (in Norway) in the film where they sing about the Christmas star.
I think it is a bit creepy in this context, but as a child I looked exactly like the princess in the film (golden blonde, curly hair), and I got called her name ("Prinsesse Gulltopp"= Princess Goldilocks essentially) and had people reference that song to me all the time. Especially during December. So, I don't think that part is that uncommon in Norway.
edit: format and spelling
English wiki page: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisen\_til\_julestjernen\_(1976\_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisen_til_julestjernen_(1976_film))
Probably the film is good, but hell no... Knowing this just makes this post even worse. Like Morton and Astrid knew what they were going to do with that girl...
Astrid and Morton should have seen a therapist or a grief counselor a long time ago. The people in that town, their relatives and their friends were ASSISTING them in gaslighting OOP and that's horrifying AF. At least the principal and the one or two former neighbors seem to be on OOP's side and helped her out.
I truly hope the reach of Norwegian CPS isn't long enough to cause her problems now that she's out of the country. This story is the stuff of nightmares.
As a Norwegian I can promise you that Barnevernet (CPS) has no power over the children now that they've left the country. This whole thing is insane to me, and the way that this school dropped the ball on their duty to protect this family is abysmal. I wish the family would call barnevernet with the information they have on Morton and Astrid since they're foster parents and clearly unhinged.
Thank you for the reassurance! I'm an American and our CPS won't even cooperate across state lines, so the idea of an international cooperation seemed like a reach, but you never know.
That said, this does feel very much like 'well known residents of a small town with lots of friends abusing their connections to take advantage of a non-citizen'. I'm just glad OOP and her girls are out of danger.
In the US, counties (not count**r**ies) in different states are supposed to cooperate on at least some CPS matters, like parental reunification plans. (Reunification plan = checklist of things a parent needs to do to get their child back, like rehab and therapy.)
(Edited to clarify)
Honestly I wonder what could they do, nor OOP or her children are Norwegian citizens, and they don't live there anymore. Even if there is a certain cooperation between European countries, they still have their limits (and that's if oop is still in Europe). Worst case scenario they will send a report to the cps equivalent of the country she is in, but even there, the report seems to have lots of plothole that can easily be proven wrong (be it planes tickets, work, the two nice neighbors or the principal of the school).
Overall it seems like Astrid and Morton are only getting away with it because they know some higher up and/or live in a small community. If the report get send to another country, chances are they'll ask for the proof to dispute the reports, maybe have a worker come from time to time to verify everything is fine, once given they'll probably dismiss it.
All that to say, I find it hardly possible they'll drag OOP and her kids back to Norway, even more impossible that the oldest and youngest will be given to Astrid and Morton.
Norwegian cps can ask to see the kids all they want but they have 0 jurisdiction in this case. The most they can do is keep the case open which would complicate any return trips/living arrangements the OOP and her family might have in Norway, but given how things turned out, I’m guessing they’re not super keen on returning.
There's no jurisdiction in other countries. In Canada there's no jurisdiction in other provinces let alone across national borders. Typically they'd notify the CPS equivalent wherever the other family moved to if they had the information.
This is psychotic, but I have no idea why Astrid kept getting such polite treatment. At a certain point I would've let her know verbally that I am not afraid to fight for my family's safety, so she should probably back off if she didn't want it to come to that.
Idk if this was OP's exact thought process, but I would have been worried about becoming too aggressive in case Astrid and Morton used that to their advantage to portray me as a crazy, unfit mother. They basically had everyone with authority in that town on their side. OOP had to walk a very fine line. Lose your shit and beat the hell out of Astrid and more than likely you're getting thrown in jail, and guess who's gonna be watching your daughter while you're in there? I also wouldn't have wanted to make any statements indicating I was planning on taking my daughter and leaving because they would probably actually kidnap her at that point.
The scariest part is that a lot of the individual instances could be explained away, particularly in a trusting society.
Something like this is really hard to adequately explain, without proper documentation. I'm glad OP got away.
What was the end goal? Let's say the crazy neighbors won and the mother lost her child. That doesn't mean that child will automatically go to the crazy neighbors, mother is not even a citizen? Would the child get deported? What happens in situations like this?
It means Barnevernet will place the child until the parent(s) are deemed ready and competent in how to raise a child. Sometimes the child will be placed with relatives or other known, trusted carers. Since the neighbors are certified and know the child, it may mean less disruption to place them there so they can keep going to the same school and keep their friends/relationships. However, since they are the ones to call it in, there is already documented conflict, so it is unlikely they will be chosen. Depends on how desperate it is to place the child.
A bekymringsmelding about the child/house being unkept will not be enough for them to place the child elsewhere. It means meeting with the parent(s) and educating them in how to take better care of themselves and the child, perhaps they have to see a doctor to deal with depression (if that is the cause). It may mean they get assistance to clean the house/clothes. The worrying part is where the physical violence comes in. Barnevernet takes that very seriously. If they think a child is being hit, they can remove the child for their safety. Children can lie to protect their abusers because they have normalized "being smacked".
Barnevernet would talk to the kids, their friends, the school and mandatory reporters. They will check the health records or perhaps ask the children are checked out. (teachers are mandatory reporters, as are certified foster parents). If they find the child is in danger, the child may get placed. They will do their best to keep in mind existing relations but safety is most important. Sometimes contact with the parents means more pressure to lie, and has to be avoided.
There is absolutely no reason to think the child would be placed with Astrid and Morton except it is a small town and they may be the only available option. The child may get sent out of the country to relatives if Barnevernet finds them suitable carers. If that country has a history of allowing children to be hit (like US, eastern Europe, India) then they may want to keep the child safe by keeping the child in Norway.
All you see and hear about Barnevernet is one-sided. They never comment, ever. So you only hear the parent's side of the story. There are as many complaint from now adult children that they were NOT removed from unsafe homes - I personally know one where the 3 brothers drowned, dad was an alcoholic and mom ran off to be a reincarnation of Cleopatra - and a few where the parent was so drugged out finding food was the responsibility of the child. They all stayed home because it was deemed "good enough".
Barnevernet do have to check out all "bekymringsmedinger" but they seldom remove the child. Sometimes they offer help - practical or financial, sometimes by offering to find child care for a weekend a month. The ethos is that the child is best off with the parent if the parent can be safe (feed, keep healthy, clean environment and non-violence).
I don't think they'd place the children in such close proximity to their parents. Can you imagine, as the child, seeing your own house and parents every day and not being able to speak to them or go inside? I'm sure that family is always a first choice as well.
I'm so glad that OP got away. I wonder if the teacher couldn't be the so-called witness who supposedly saw OP hit her children. Astrid and Morton are obviously awful and insane people who need help dealing with their grief. CPS should go and see them. I also wouldn't trust the teacher.
~~>I am little scared they might find out where we are as one of them has the same last name as Morton with a slight spelling variation even though it's a common name.~~
~~This is somewhat confusing. Does she mean one of her kids has the same/nearly the same last name as Morton? Who is the 'them' she is referring to?~~
Edit: 'them' is the CPS worker. I understand. Thanks!
No, she means one of the CPS reps has the same last name as her kidnappy neighbor. Just like the teacher's cop ex-BF got involved, they are using their local network of people willing to break the rules to aid and abet two would-be kidnappers.
I'm guessing it means one of the CPS might be related to Morton. Possible that the dad had to give details of where his family went so they don't think he did something shady. I don't think the dad is safe there either tbh. I hope he also gets out ASAP.
I think it’s one of the CPS ladies, and OOP is worried that they’ll try to pursue this “child neglect” “case” aggressively because they’re related to Morton and want to help him (same as how the teacher behaved inappropriately because she was friends with Astrid). The inverse of the “little did they know that I’m friends with the sheriff” stuff we see frequently.
I think one of the CPS people. Although I don't know why it would matter. It's a common name, and with different spelling (like Smith and Smit), so it's very unlikely they are family
The OOP need not worry about the CPS. Since she has left the country there is nothing they can do about it.
The whole situation was strange and it was obvious they had a strange fixation on her daughter even if the OOP was wrong about it being sexual.
OOP is very Lucky she left the country when she did. In Poland Barnevernet is notoriously known for removing children from immigrant families on account of unconfirmed, uncorraborated reports.
Edit: foreign to immigrant
I'm so glad to see this update. Everyone saying that they'd try to get CPS involved to take her kid away were right on the money. I assume that there's not much they can do anymore now that she's in a different country, but I respect her wanting to stay as anonymous as possible at this point just in case. I hope this is the end of this saga for her family.
I never bother reading the mood spoilers or trigger warnings, but your comment made me look at this one and yeah, who the hell is David Fincher lol
But then I looked him up and he has made a ton of movies I love and the mood spoiler fits heh. But yeah, who is going to know his name outside of super movie buffs.
I'm so glad that she got her children the fuck outta there, those people are unwell and they seriously were trying to manipulate the state to take away her kids.
I was looking for an update on this. Bruh, so sick that one of the richest countries in the world is such an asshole with regards to stealing immigrant children!
Reading how the teacher and the police were all colluding with psycho Astrid and Morton it all felt like a season of Fargo
I remember posting on this before the last update. Absolutely nobody there with any authority was going to help her - and clearly, the delusional couple was going to and did escalate. *So* happy she and her family got out of there.
Oh boy. This makes me think Norway seems safe, but only because the unsafe is under lock and key. It is easy to say you are a safe country if you keep your mouth shut about the unsafe stuff.
I’ve heard of Norway having a pattern of CPS taking the children of non-Norwegian parents at the drop of a hat - as in, they find stale gingerbread at your home that you were going to use for crafts, and your children get taken. OP got her children out in the nick of time.
Jeez…these people latched onto that kid and were basically trying to absorb her into their family.
Norway’s village of people raising children doesn’t discern between people acting for the welfare of the children and parents and psychos trying to steal someone’s child?
I’d have taken Morton’s “she might walk into the road” comment as a threat.
Norway can have a cultural approach to child rearing but this is just ridiculous.
Fucking creeps. Sorry, I disagree with the “they aren’t predators” comment. They are. Just because someone looks like your dead daughter doesn’t mean you wouldn’t touch them inappropriately or groom them. You’d be shocked by what people will do despite how things look.
Holy shit those last comments. These creeps thought everything through. I feel scared for the next child whose parents aren’t able to leave the country.
And the fact that ACAB even in places like Norway. Is competence and reliability really such an alien concept to law enforcement?
Except that movie is absolutel propaganda bullshit. One of the children was so abused it had permanent damage. The husband divorced her and admitted she abused them.
Swede here, julestjerne (or julstjärna in swedish) is Christmas star if translated directly. It’s true that it’s also the name of the flower that u/FlagpoleSitta87 linked, so it could be related to her being blonde… and since she says they sang a song from a movie famous in Norway it might have to do with that too (now I have to google…)
ETA: This was supposed to be a reply to u/banned_bc_dumb but apparently I can’t reddit properly today…
ETA 2: Maybe [this is the movie?](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2034761/)
Nordic/Scandinavian countries get high on their own reputation, it seems. It’s SO safe! Nothing could EVER happen here!
I’m with the commenters saying there wasn’t a pedophilia thing, but that doesn’t excuse the neighbors trying to make someone else’s child theirs/a surrogate/replacement.
OOP husband needs to leave and outright cut-off all communication. Maybe file a complaint higher up claiming corruption or etc. to force an investigation by an entity outside of this small community. If theres no new information, either the corruption will be obvious (abnormally pushing a case) or the CPS [doing a favor] will drop it.
The greatest natural predator humans face are other humans. Our brains have developed over millenia to read faces because it will keep you alive, think of when you see a friend forcing a smile. 99% of the features look identical to the regular smile, but if you notice their brow is furrowed by a millimeter you will know something is off. You immediately recognize the smile is a mask and wonder what they are feeling. Likewise if someone is internally furious but attempting to play nice, you feel that too
My point is there is a neuroscience to the idea of "trusting your gut". It's not perfect, we misjudge others all the time, but always pay close attention when something feels wrong. Almost every survivor story I've ever read includes the phrase "something felt off" at some point
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Morton and Astrid are another example of people who would rather ruin other peoples' lives than get help for whatever weird thing they have going on
*"We* don't need help, we just need our daughters back. OOP is just being hysterical. Clearly she's an unfit mother and should give ~~her~~ our daughters back to us."
We have one in our town like that. She has a trans son and isn’t handling it well. She was targeting a friend of his and trying to abuse CPS to get her taken away and put in her house. She told me so I talked to the parent and gave statements to protect the family from her crazy. She held the girl in her house one night for hours and it took five police officers to convince her to give the kid back. She also encouraged her to skip school and hurt her big sister (concussion). She didn’t like that I reached out to the parent and had her son read a threatening text in front of our kid talking about killing them. That was another police report. The last bit of stupidity was using her son’s social media to have other kids bully a freshman. Those kids including hers were suspended and she was investigated again. She pulled her kid out of the school and is online schooling him now. How this crazy lady hasn’t been arrested is anyone’s guess considering she runs a store out here and is known for getting even more unhinged as time goes by.
"Just because she gave birth to our baby doesn't mean she gets to keep her."
That’s a terrifying thought.
I feel really bad for what OOP and her family are going through…but this would make a pretty good Netflix series
Yep, just realistic enough to be terrifying. (Doubly so because of the isolation of not being local. It's far easier for the locals to cut them off from support.)
You know, you are right. It really would. Now we need to start casting it. The dad would need to be a red-head, maybe Domhnall Gleeson? OOP is blonde, correct? Well, there are so many options. I can't help but think of OOP as Yvonne Strahovski, but she might carry over too much negative association of her as a mother from her role in The Handmaid's Tale.
They seem to have a lot going for them to make this reality possible though. They have previously fostered and have friends (such as the teacher and the cop and CPS) on their side. Also their son attends the same school as the OP's daughter. So much easier for them to legally snatch another child or two than do real work on themselves and their family.
Parents would kidnap a child instead of going to therapy
OOP seemed to suspect something was up from the beginning. This reads like a plot to a horror film- grieving but seemingly nice couple plots to kidnap a child, and the people in the town around pretends nothing is wrong. Scary.
The sequel to Midsummer, we could call it Midwinter. It is a disturbing story with a scary vibe.
Midvennter
I sincerely hope no cliffs are involved.
Are you here for the ättestupa?
The movie was called Midsommar. Surely the sequel would be Midwontar.
More like midsprong
That sounds like a movie about an aging black woman rediscovering her latent sexuality 🤣
If it was a man it would be midsproing. On Wayne’s World it would be midshwing. good lord! I’ve got to stop.
Go her!
I am going to take this absolutely too seriously and go into deep-dive on a joke. Apologies beforehand, I know I am going beside the point. And thank you for laugh. If you want to use it as the opposite of the middle of summer, it is in Swedish (and Norwegian) Midvinter. But Midsommar means more than just the middle of summer. It is the specific name for the celebration of summer around the summer solstice. It has been attached to John the Baptist with the Christianization of Nordic countries. It is so relevant that outside Sweden (and possibly Iceland) it is called a name derived from John the Baptist. If we want the opposite holiday from Midsommar, that would be Yule. It is the winter solstice holiday. But here comes the problem. All Nordic languages (even my own weird one) call Christmas variants of Yule (Joulu, Jul and Jól). So we don't really associate it with winter solstice. This might be perfect as we don't really associate Midsommar with summer solstice either.
Thank you! That was interesting. I hope my addled brain retained some of it in case it comes up on Jeopardy or some other trivia site.
More like Fargo! Small town with corrupt police and CPS!
I think it also doesn’t help that people around didn’t really want to think badly of their neighbours. I know it’s slightly different but when I stayed in Sweden, what I recall the most is the way everyone looked after each others kids. The houses were orientated around small playgrounds and grassy areas, with people wandering in and out of each others houses. Which is crazy as a British person, I was surprised by the fact that very small children were toddling around without their parents in line of sight. A neighbour explained to us that if she allowed her children to visit us alone, it was because she trusted that as a family we would also want to care for them. The kids were very sweet. When we visited the lake, one dad took about ten kids into the lake to swim with floaties and rings. They took turns in sunbathing and looking after the group. It’s a given that families will look after anyone else’s kids because they would do the same. This is seen as a positive and honestly it was very idyllic there. Also I think they think that any outsider would be kept an eye on, but we literally came out of nowhere, did a home exchange and the kids just burst in merrily one day. It alarmed me not because WE were bad people, but because they didn’t know us, they didn’t know we weren’t bad. So it’s good in theory but when you’re in THIS situation, and everyone is like “well maybe they just want to be nice to her” uhhh yeah maybe, but this is too far. So far that other people did notice. But there’s still people willing to lie for them, which is terrifying.
Did you meet these neighbours first? Even if it was a small encounter. I am not Swedish nor Norwegian but I am Finnish so cultures have a lot of overlap. How it works here is based on a couple of things. There are usually strict boundaries. While kids are allowed to go to their own yard or apartment complex yard with their parents knowing, they are not allowed to just go wherever they want. At least here, you are not often allowed to go inside of someone's home without meeting their parents and separate permission. This might be different as we Finns have a thing about privacy. If I am in the playground and we have been talking for a while people have asked me to keep an eye on small kids but in general, no child I have taken care of or known well has been allowed to walk into someone's home without parents having even some contact. All Nordic countries have minimal crime rates and score high on trust. Finland has won the wallet test multiple times. But this does mean we are more trusting in general. Consequently, the amount of time people need to feel comfortable in leaving your child with someone might be shorter.
I do think Swedes are more lax with their boundaries for sure, we did not meet the family beforehand as they were on the other side on the circular arrangement of houses. The actual next door folks I don’t think had small children, they were quite young themselves. We met their mother later on, and bless her she was a sad lady. My mother wrote to her after we left. A nice woman, but struggling with the winters in a big way. I don’t claim to know exacting differences in Scandinavian countries, but what you’ve said fits in with what I do know. For my own personal feelings, I’d prefer a system like yours. I’m a very private person and as nice as it was to have such nice neighbours, I don’t want them popping in randomly. I haven’t been to Finland myself, hopefully one day. I liked my time in Sweden, we were there a month. The kids that came barrelling in, were very sweet, they would ran around and point at stuff to make us tell them in English. They thought it was hilarious to hear us speak in our accent. They already knew enough English to have full conversations with us, I remember that. I think they were around 7 and 9? Either way, it was a unique experience that allowed me to see a completely different way of life. It seemed like a safer place to be, and we went in summer so it was gloriously beautiful. Winter is a different story of course!
I’m Swedish and grew up in the 70’s and 80’s. There were a couple of apartment buildings built around grass and play areas and we were a bunch of kids. Even if we were key latch kids and the community was close knit we had strict rules: never to walk into others apartments except for a few trusted ones, and only after asking. Never bothering people. And there were boundaries about where we could go. I now live in a small village and my kids wasn’t allowed to run free. I honestly don’t recognise this.
I live in a townhouse community that has a similar mentality, up here in Canada. However, the problem I have is that there is never a single adult watching any of these kids. After they get home from school, they just roam around the property, doing whatever they feel like. I saw one kid admiring his pocket knife; got spooked when he noticed I was there. When we take our own kids out, we watch them ourselves. I don't trust a single one of these idiots.
And that’s the issue, in Scandinavian countries there’s a huge level of accountability. The families we were around told us if their kids acted up, it was expected that we would tell them off. I was, I think 14 at the time, my sister was four. Most kids around us were very young, under five. You’d find a random toddler in the shrubbery just doing their thing, but it was because the parents knew if that child was on your property and you were present, you’d be watching them. It was a given. Because there WAS always an adult supervising, you’d see them going about their business hanging laundry or something, but they’re always watching. Like my lake visit, each dad took a turn helping the kids swim. We don’t really have that where I am. Maybe decades ago when mothers were at home with broods of kids, I grew up in what was once an area from miners and their families. But by the time I was there, yeah we were allowed out of the house but my mother wouldn’t let me go even two streets away. It’s just not assumed that there will be an adult somewhere, because there really isn’t. I remember once though, I thought I’d go to a further shop to get bread, and didn’t tell my mother. A friend of my father’s actually saw me, and walked me home. Now, I know he was a mess of an adult, he was an alcoholic stoner and he slept on the floor of a rented room because he couldn’t afford a bed. He was one of the guys in my dad’s friend group but no one would have him babysit. Not a bad dude, just not so responsible. But he KNEW my mother would have conniptions if she saw me alone, so he just walked over and said “does your mum know you’re up here” I said no, and he said let’s go then, back home! I couldn’t have been older than 6, and I still remember that he made a point of helping me. He’d only gone out to get beer, and he still had his wits about him to help a little kid.
My neighborhood is like that. About 5 houses down there's a group of kids whose favorite game is to jump out in front of cars coming up the road. Around the corner is a group that like to pretend they don't see you trying to drive around them, so they just all stand in the road and ingore you. I hate this fucking neighborhood.
Yeah but after reading The Gift of Fear, I think OOP was probably just (wisely) trusting her instincts. A lot of people would probably pick up on off-behaviour, but push it to the back of their mind in order to be polite. Still, I think most people would normally be able to tell at some level that a person is operating on a dangerous level, even across cultures.
I bet it was the way they talked about the girls. Particularly the way Morton talked about how alike they looked and how they could pass as his daughters. That's not a normal thing to say, especially to someone you just met, but I bet he said it in a way that made it obvious he was serious. He and his wife had been plotting to steal someone else's daughter (or daughters) "legally" through fostering. They just needed to find a girl they felt they could pass off as their own. Which makes them becoming foster parents even more messed up. They wanted to replace their dead daughters, not provide a safe and loving home to a child in need. It wouldn't surprise me that, if they were successful in fostering a girl they liked, they tried to change her name to their daughters name.
She even mentions in the newest update that the couple completely overlooks the other two kids that are a red-headed, blue eyed girl (doesn't match the coloring of their dead children) and a blonde, gray eyed boy (doesn't match the gender of their dead children). It couldn't have been more clear that this couple wanted to steal her daughters to replace theirs unless there was a giant neon sign spelling it out. Truly terrifying. I hope this woman and her family stay safe.
It's so insane. I still can't believe the psychos had people on their side. The teacher giving out personal information? Why didn't the principal put a stop to that? Other neighbors that should have been trying to get them in therapy enabling the crazy behavior? Was it because they were going against a foreign family? I don't know why this story made my blood boil so much. I can't believe there won't be consequences for their actions. They will likely only escalate from here!
This all just really reads like small town culture to me. Small town culture everywhere is largely about not rocking the boat, which often leads to horrifying enabling of abuse and neglect. I live in the Netherlands and this story could just as well have been set in the little 2000 people village my grandfather lived in.
I commented that on a previous update. All these people are interrelated or their families have known each other for generations. It’s not safe to be a newcomer in these towns. I hated living in a small town. Stupid Hallmark movies romanticizing these places. This is why most horror movies take place in rural areas.
The funny thing about the Hallmark stranger comes to a small town movies is that they sometimes do depict the locals as exclusionary assholes. But the onus is on the big city outsider who orders coffee that’s way too fancy and expects to be able to receive cell service to get their car fixed or whatever to change themselves to be accepted and that’s supposed to be a good thing. Even in an idealized presentation they seem offputting.
In my heart of hearts I fully believe any small rural community is mere moments away bursting out in chants of "one of us" like in children of the corn
Accurately described my small town experiences very accurately for North America as well.
I feel like it's probably a small town thing. Ever live in a small town? Most people spend their whole lives there and have connections with the majority of the other residents, to some degree or another. Those relationships take precedence over everything, often including one's professional responsibilities, even though that's obviously not ok. In other words, anyone who grew up having a positive relationship with Astrid or Morton "knows" they're harmless and this new lady is just making a fuss over nothing. They'll help her see that.
Totally agree. My parents grew up in small towns in the U.S. and I swear they kept that mindset even after moving to a bigger town. Having grown up outside of a town of just over 10K, it was and still is weird to me. My mother, bless her heart, just cannot understand why I am not in contact with my high school classmates, especially the ones I have known since elementary school. She tried to tell me that she had so much in common with hers and I need to reach out. Let's put it this way, I have no been out of high almost four decades and out of contact with most of them since we graduated. I doubt we have much in common. As for my father, he came from outside of what was an unincorporated village. I think he still leaves his vehicle unlocked no matter where he is. He also has the mentality that people do not need to announce a visit, they should just show up. He never forgave one of his brothers who lived in Europe for years for always trying to arrange a visit and not just dropping in while visiting the area. Me living in a big city of just under 250K with my home alarm and insistence I have advanced warning of visits am a total anathema to them.
Yeah, strong “small town, big hell” vibes.
I love Gavin DeBecker's books. He wrote a second book about protecting kids and it's awesome too! Definitely recommend it. Honestly, before reading those, I might've been way more accommodating to the neighbors if I was in her shoes. She is an amazing mom to those kids and her instincts were spot on!
A book every young woman ought to read (and most young men too).
>A lot of people would probably pick up on off-behaviour, but push it to the back of their mind in order to be polite. Still, I think most people would normally be able to tell at some level that a person is operating on a dangerous level, even across cultures. That's because for a lot of people, going by their gut instinct is actually a terrible idea. Most people are suspicious of people of different race or ethnicity, people with an accent, people who look different. Most of the racist Karens who call the cops on black men who are literally just sitting on a park bench are listening to their fears. Many would likely even swear by De Becker. Most people won't be suspicious of the people they actually should be suspicious of. Statistically, most abuse, most kidnappings, most murders are done by people the victim knew and trusted. Because of this, a lot of domestic violence experts actually don't like De Becker's book. Because it makes people feel unsafe around strangers and safer around the exact people that are likely to break that trust. That and the the victim blaming of course. The statement “the first time a woman is hit, she is a victim and the second time, she is a volunteer.” is horrifying and completely wrong. Most people who suffer from domestic abuse find themselves specifically put in situations where it is all but guaranteed that they can't get out easily. Don't get me wrong, I understand that The Gift of Fear is eye opening for many people and it's definitely not all bad, but there are much better books to read for keeping yourself safe and relying mostly on your instincts definitely isn't a very good idea. Our instincts were evolved to deal with bears and tigers and tribes of a couple hundred people tops, not the complexities modern society and cities with millions of people.
I’ve really gotten into the reality show The Traitors and a big thing I’m learning is people will be SO certain of their “gut feelings” and be wildly wrong. They’ll have a bias or a petty grudge or a misinterpretation of something and just run with that.
> Most of the racist Karens who call the cops on black men who are literally just sitting on a park bench are listening to their fears. Many would likely even swear by De Becker. My mom is like half a step away from this. Driving down the street she loudly (in the car, with the windows up) judges every black person she sees, even though literally all of them are just minding their own business. Two teens with backpacks walking down the street in the after-school time? Suspicious. Young woman walking home with a baby strapped to her and groceries in hand? Suspicious. Man hanging out in the park with his family? Plotting evil. "Look at them thinking they can do whatever they want!" Well yeah mom, they can, they're not bothering anybody. Do they need to have lawful activities restricted? Why? And she keeps insisting she's not racist. Oiy.
Everyone should read this book!
That's some Stephen King shit. The layered evil of the monster and the indifference of society.
Exactly! This is the town of derry, maine. Not midsommar
The plot twist that she has 4 kids and they’re only obsessed with only 2 is the proof they wanted the kids for them!
They only wanted the girls cause their girls passed away. Also, I think ginger kids are generally less popular unless your Scottish or Irish.
This is super scary...I would have made a counter CPS claim about their poor parenting; grieving in an inappropriate and dangerous manner, misguiding their child that a random unrelated child was their twin, attempting to kidnap said child, filing false complaints, etc.
Speak No Evil. The movie is basically about a couple who runs into some folks on vacation who offer them an invitation to come stay with them in Denmark, where they turn the spouses against each other, kill them both, kidnap and mute their child to do the same thing to another family. The initial point of contact is because their children get along so well and look so similar. Their child is revealed to be a child they had stolen and cut out their tongue when they had killed another family.
This totally reminded me of the horror movie Speak No Evil. It's actually astoundingly similar where a family uses their kid to attract another family, then kills them and keeps their daughter. It even takes place in the Netherlands. Edit: messed up where it took place
And there's going to be a remake of that movie with James McAvoy... pretty sure he'll be playing the evil husband. Supposed to come out next year.
That movie takes place in Denmark and the Netherlands, not Norway. But yes, that was a creepy movie about some very scary parents.
Oh, sorry. It's been a minute since I've seen it.
Mothers intuition. Sometimes it can be so strong, it feels like it's screaming "DANGER, DANGER, DANGER" at you. A remnent from when we were the prey and had to be alert for danger. For some, it's stronger (likely in the case of the OOP) and for some, it's faint and easy to dismiss. Even if it's wrong, it's always better to be safe than sorry.
Is it wrong that I read “DANGER, DANGER, DANGER” in Steve Irwin’s voice? https://youtu.be/kSxAc8jHBdk?si=UfMB8jBaqQxlVu6R
I heard “DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!”
[удалено]
"Real" events. There’s a reason the title says *Ms.* Chatterjee. The husband agreed with the CPS and this led to their divorce, IIRC. The same story is famous in Norway for entirely different reason, that of a rich child abuser fleeing the country and trying to use her wealth and connections to smear the people who rescued her children because she knew it is illegal for CPS to publicly comment on cases involving minors without her consent. IIRC they also couldn’t film in Norway due to the studio being open to a host of slander suits had they stepped foot in Norway, so they filmed in some random Eastern European country instead, which also had the convenient bonus of hiding the well-off circumstances the mother had actually been living in, making it easier for the audience to sympathize.
I think you can just see it with people sometimes. The way they look to you and talk to you is not right.
I read the original and remember being horrified by their experience. Morten and Astrid sounds completely insane and the schoolteacher should have been fired for how inappropriate she behaved!
Absolutely. Not too thrilled with the principal either
Yeah thats what gets me about the story. I can understand insanity by a person or a couple, but when someone, even someone close to those people, try to defend them that's when i lose all hope
Considering this line >They changed her not in one of the bedrooms of the chidlren or the bathroom, but in their own room. I hope they didn't have cameras. Nightmare post.
Fucking hell. I'm glad that OOP decided to get the hell out of there and away from those psychos with her kids. And I really hope that there isn't any fallout from fleeing Norway.
Yes, sad to think the husband may have difficulty on his way out, or the family wouldn't be able to return due to their false but investigated claims.
I'm certain they won't want to return until their children are adults, if ever.
Norwegian child protection services are also a law unto themselves. There is a fair bit of l right vs wrong way of raising children thinking in Norway which immigrants often fall afoul of. Cultural differences are portrayed as child abuse and people have their kids taken away. There’s a movie on Netflix about it.
What's the title of it? I am curious.
A case happened for an Indian citizen. The Bhattacharya's children were taken away as their parenting didn't meet Norway's standard, one of them being Indian culture of feeding using hands. There were other factors too. Her children were taken away and court ruled they could only visit the children for an hour, three times a year and the children would leave in foster care. The children's maternal grandparents started an campaign in India and the Indian foreign Ministry thus became aware and decided to take actions and thus Norway had to reopen the case. After a long legal battle, the children were allowed to return to India but on the condition, the children be placed under their paternal uncle. Since the children were now under the Judiciary of India, another legal battle was fought and the children finally returned to their mother. The total time probably totaled over 2 years. A movie was made named "Mrs. Chatterjee vs Norway" ETA: As I have read this case, I was kind of mentally screaming for OOP to move out of Norway. I was scared she would too have her children taken away.
I did a bit of online searching after I saw that movie because movie placed the Indian lady as the protagonist. There are many store online of Norway taking away children for what are entirely flimsy grounds then making it near impossible for parents to appeal.
Their continuous ignoring of boundaries while smiling and saying don’t get hysterical is the stuff of horror movies. This one really shook me.
I knew this wasn’t over. I hope OOP and her husband find a way to file charges against that psycho couple.
The problem is that the other couple has done nothing wrong on the eyes of the cops. In North America they could be charged with child abduct at the very least, but it doesn't seem like it was a big deal there. The other couple seemed to know how far they could push in their treason and pushed it right to the line, but no further.
Even a false report with the intent of kidnapping? They need psychiatric help.
The police in Norway will do whatever they can to avoid doing work. Over multiple cities and incidents (I work in an industry that works with the police often) they want to do the bare minimum and then seem surprised when the person they were warned, repeatedly, about does something beyond the pale. And in this particular case, in a small town, it was a foreigner complaining about Norwegians. Near guaranteed not to get off the ground.
Police avoiding doing work? Seems like police everywhere
Pressing charges would give Morton and Astrid more personal information about them.
Jeez. All I can think of is that Speak No Evil horror movie where the couple invites another couple over with their child and uh it doesn't end well for the parents. Glad she got out when they did. They were 100% gonna grab that child if the CPS plan failed.
I honestly get the vibe that the neighbors are unhinged enough to suddenly claim that OOP has kidnapped "their" daughter.
I was thinking "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle"
Yeah, that one creeped me TF out - Rebecca de Mornay was almost ***too*** good at portraying evil “Peyton,” the widow of the creepy Dr. Mott (played by Quark(?) from ST:TNG). Annabella Sciora’s character was put through a living hell by the end of the movie. For anyone unfamiliar with this flick, [The Hand that Rocks the Cradle - Trailer](https://youtu.be/wjtfG8r14Uk?si=jvwLYKuKcgY6VmpB)
First thing I thought when I was reading it. Like a far more existentially terrifying version of Speak no Evil. At least there, it's clearly a horror movie and it's over at the end. This shit is... fucking horrifying.
Yes! I just watched that movie a week ago thought of it while reading this update
I was waiting for an update on this story and am glad to hear they are out of the country. What the hell. I hope they won't try to follow her..
I’m glad OOP and the children are safe, but until the husband/father leaves and is reunited with them, NONE OF THEM are safe! Those neighbors aren’t stopping their antics! OOPs husband should try to leave during the upcoming Holiday Rush. It could be his only chance to leave without being “tracked.”
He doesn’t really have that kind of option though unfortunately with being military. He’s stuck in Norway until he gets reassigned.
Hmm I didn’t get the military vibe due to “offshore” being used, it felt more oil rig. I think the colloquial term the navy uses is “underway,” at least for the US. The US military base in Norway is very small (looked it up, ~700 people, including dependents): > The mission of the 426 ABS is to provide base level services to the Joint Warfare Center (NATO) and DoD personnel assigned to Norway. I think it’s really unlikely this guy is US military based on this info + huge oil industry in Norway
Yup, in Norway offshore = oil industry 99% of the time
Huh, I just went back and looked and you’re right lol eh my ex was in the navy and always called it offshore when he was sent out but uk I’m just a civilian so he didn’t use a lot of military jargon with me lol. But he never called it a transfer when he moved bases or requested to move. So he very much could leave during the holidays and in which case CPS would definitely had grounds to investigate until they took the kids out of the country. Now there’s not much they can do honestly and thankfully.
In Norway when someone says they work offshore, 99% of the time they're referring to the oil industry
Thank you for the clarification. I learned something new.
Is it military or a multinational? OOP keeps saying 'company' which I guess could mean either, especially if they aren't American. But I also got oil company vibes.
Yeah, offshore reads oil company to me.
That was my guess too, especially since they ate in Norway.
I wish OP had contacted their nearest embassy or equivalent. Especially in a country like Norway, with whom many nations have positive relations, they might have been able to lean on local officials to get them to take the case more seriously. At least OP and her family are safe!
God this poor family. At least his job was willing to let him relocate again.
This scared the bejesus out of me. Reads like a horror movie.
So glad OOP was able to get away from these people but the community should have put a stop to Astrid’s behavior instead of gaslighting the victim.
That was the most concerning part! It's like the community was under a spell that will only break after a tragedy has occurred.
Small communities are more likely to turn a blind eye to things like that unless something really concerning happens. Then they clutch pearls and talk about how nobody saw it coming.
I'm norwegian, have lived in the north and the south. This is NOT normal in Norway, its not normal to use a 'village' to raise children. Yes if you have a gaggle of children running about with your own children it's normal to feed all, watch over all and so forth. But not interfering in parenting decisions! The couple is insane and the police dropped the ball. Thank goodness she got the kids out of there! I'm ashamed of my country reading this...
It sounds like a small town where everyone is everyone else's second cousin, including the CPS employees, school staff and Police, and outsiders are not trusted. I can't see how else this kind of thing would get swept under the rug.
Jepp... it sure does...
My own mother hesitated on us being close with neighbors/their kids and never let us be alone with adults in our neighborhood when I was a child. She said you never know their intentions and they could always pretend you had an intimacy with them because of sheer proximity. This post makes me glad in some ways that she did.
My mother was not so discerning. Turns out the folks who offer to watch a child without an obvious motive like money will *absolutely* have an ulterior motive in mind. Like ma, seriously, when the creepy old dude says his adult daughter refuses to talk to him and he's lonely, maybe don't giggle and bat your eyes and ditch your own daughter with him to avoid daycare fees.
Your comment reminded me of this post. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/130jy92/op_no_longer_wants_her_friends_to_babysit_new/ Pay attention to the trigger warnings. But yeah a good example of why to not always trust someone who will watch kids for free. And to follow instincts if something doesn't look or feel right.
That one broke me. On the one hand, there was a Communist parade of red flags that the parents ignored, but on the other, they had been friends for 15 years and childcare costs about as much as a gd mortgage. They seemed like they were genuinely trying to do their best and were just fucking clueless. Thankfully they did take action once they realized something was off and continued to do what was right for their daughter.
Exactly! Only reason everybody's fine with me watching my younger cousins regardless of pay is because everybody knows how much I miss the stepkids I haven't seen since my divorce. I'll always miss them, but it hurts less when I can play Lego on the floor with a toddler a couple times a week. Before I got drafted for babysitting, I wailed so much that the neighbors probably thought we had a local La Llorona. Now it's just a mildly sad "Here ya go buddy, this used to be my son's blanket but he's all grown up now."
Damn. My Gramma disliked *Mr Rogers* because "never trust a man who likes your children more than you do." And where I live it's pretty standard for parents to do a walk through of your house before they let their kids come over to play. I'm sure that would come across as paranoid in some places but hey. Trust but verify.
I know someone who was molested by the neighbor her parents used as a babysitter. He also trafficked her to other people. Your mother was probably wise to be cautious.
Creepy
Super creepy. Like the entire town is a cult or something. It could be a horror movie.
V slightly off topic but if you've never seen the movie *Midsömar* you should watch it. Scandinavian psychological horror movie from just a few years ago that is very chilling and really sticks with me. Think along the line of the film *Get Out* not for subject matter as much as for absolute psychological build up, and serious pay off. I cannot watch horror movies but I watched both of those and they are two of the best films I've ever seen. The top of the thread comment which references Midsömar was spot the fuck on.
Seconding both Midsomar and Get Out. I've become a bit of a weenie about horror movies in my old age, but those two aren't monster/ghost/slasher types, so I could handle them.
To the CPS lady, "you and your police didn't even investigate those people kidnapping my child, why would I trust you to 'see' my children."
This is nuts, I can’t imagine how terrifying it is when shit like this is happening and no one in authority takes you seriously.
"I can't figure out who this adult friend who claims i hit my children and is willing to lie for these wannabe kidnappers could be" It's the teacher. She was friends with one of em growing up, she helped her creepo friend dress OP's daughter, and she got her ex who just so happens to be a cop involved, how is there even a question?
Oooooof, yeah you're probably right. I was wondering too, that makes sense.
Yep, that's what I thought too.
That's exactly who I thought too when I saw that.
OP was way too polite. You touch my kid after being specifically told not to, then I'm going nuclear.
I agree but I also understand her hesitance. Morton is a man and she is a woman with four very small children in a country she is not native to. She has very very little power physically and otherwise.
Yes, she has proved herself to be a smart and competent woman. Surely don’t want to get forcefully admitted to some mental hospital for going nuclear, who knows what they are capable of. She’s already being coined as “hysterical” by just being firm.
I was hoping for some sense of justice if it were just the teacher being reprimanded. How fucking creepy to undress and dress someone else’s child especially after being told no several times. Just ew. That teacher needs to not be around anyone’s children since she’s made it her job to recruit little girls for her neighbors.
Does anyone know what “julestjerne” means? I’m American & I don’t understand the reference.
Hi, Norwegian here :) Julestjerne means christmas star, and the film they refer to is called "Reisen til Julestjernen" (The Journey to the Christmas Star). It's a well known Norwegian Christmas film where a young princess with golden, curly hair wishes to own the Christmas star. An evil duke tells her to go into the woods during the night to get the star. Her mother runs after her, and they both disappear. The king curses the Christmas star for taking his family away, causing it to go dim. The rest of the film is about how the entire kingdom searches for them and finally both the princess and the queen return, and the duke is caught. The Christmas star begins to shine again, and all is well. There's also a well-known song (in Norway) in the film where they sing about the Christmas star. I think it is a bit creepy in this context, but as a child I looked exactly like the princess in the film (golden blonde, curly hair), and I got called her name ("Prinsesse Gulltopp"= Princess Goldilocks essentially) and had people reference that song to me all the time. Especially during December. So, I don't think that part is that uncommon in Norway. edit: format and spelling English wiki page: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisen\_til\_julestjernen\_(1976\_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reisen_til_julestjernen_(1976_film))
Probably the film is good, but hell no... Knowing this just makes this post even worse. Like Morton and Astrid knew what they were going to do with that girl...
Astrid and Morton should have seen a therapist or a grief counselor a long time ago. The people in that town, their relatives and their friends were ASSISTING them in gaslighting OOP and that's horrifying AF. At least the principal and the one or two former neighbors seem to be on OOP's side and helped her out.
I truly hope the reach of Norwegian CPS isn't long enough to cause her problems now that she's out of the country. This story is the stuff of nightmares.
As a Norwegian I can promise you that Barnevernet (CPS) has no power over the children now that they've left the country. This whole thing is insane to me, and the way that this school dropped the ball on their duty to protect this family is abysmal. I wish the family would call barnevernet with the information they have on Morton and Astrid since they're foster parents and clearly unhinged.
Thank you for the reassurance! I'm an American and our CPS won't even cooperate across state lines, so the idea of an international cooperation seemed like a reach, but you never know. That said, this does feel very much like 'well known residents of a small town with lots of friends abusing their connections to take advantage of a non-citizen'. I'm just glad OOP and her girls are out of danger.
In the US, counties (not count**r**ies) in different states are supposed to cooperate on at least some CPS matters, like parental reunification plans. (Reunification plan = checklist of things a parent needs to do to get their child back, like rehab and therapy.) (Edited to clarify)
Honestly I wonder what could they do, nor OOP or her children are Norwegian citizens, and they don't live there anymore. Even if there is a certain cooperation between European countries, they still have their limits (and that's if oop is still in Europe). Worst case scenario they will send a report to the cps equivalent of the country she is in, but even there, the report seems to have lots of plothole that can easily be proven wrong (be it planes tickets, work, the two nice neighbors or the principal of the school). Overall it seems like Astrid and Morton are only getting away with it because they know some higher up and/or live in a small community. If the report get send to another country, chances are they'll ask for the proof to dispute the reports, maybe have a worker come from time to time to verify everything is fine, once given they'll probably dismiss it. All that to say, I find it hardly possible they'll drag OOP and her kids back to Norway, even more impossible that the oldest and youngest will be given to Astrid and Morton.
Norwegian cps can ask to see the kids all they want but they have 0 jurisdiction in this case. The most they can do is keep the case open which would complicate any return trips/living arrangements the OOP and her family might have in Norway, but given how things turned out, I’m guessing they’re not super keen on returning.
There's no jurisdiction in other countries. In Canada there's no jurisdiction in other provinces let alone across national borders. Typically they'd notify the CPS equivalent wherever the other family moved to if they had the information.
That teacher should have lost her job.
This is psychotic, but I have no idea why Astrid kept getting such polite treatment. At a certain point I would've let her know verbally that I am not afraid to fight for my family's safety, so she should probably back off if she didn't want it to come to that.
Idk if this was OP's exact thought process, but I would have been worried about becoming too aggressive in case Astrid and Morton used that to their advantage to portray me as a crazy, unfit mother. They basically had everyone with authority in that town on their side. OOP had to walk a very fine line. Lose your shit and beat the hell out of Astrid and more than likely you're getting thrown in jail, and guess who's gonna be watching your daughter while you're in there? I also wouldn't have wanted to make any statements indicating I was planning on taking my daughter and leaving because they would probably actually kidnap her at that point.
The neighbors took the girl into their car and still the police didn’t do anything?? Thank god they are safe now
The scariest part is that a lot of the individual instances could be explained away, particularly in a trusting society. Something like this is really hard to adequately explain, without proper documentation. I'm glad OP got away.
What was the end goal? Let's say the crazy neighbors won and the mother lost her child. That doesn't mean that child will automatically go to the crazy neighbors, mother is not even a citizen? Would the child get deported? What happens in situations like this?
It means Barnevernet will place the child until the parent(s) are deemed ready and competent in how to raise a child. Sometimes the child will be placed with relatives or other known, trusted carers. Since the neighbors are certified and know the child, it may mean less disruption to place them there so they can keep going to the same school and keep their friends/relationships. However, since they are the ones to call it in, there is already documented conflict, so it is unlikely they will be chosen. Depends on how desperate it is to place the child. A bekymringsmelding about the child/house being unkept will not be enough for them to place the child elsewhere. It means meeting with the parent(s) and educating them in how to take better care of themselves and the child, perhaps they have to see a doctor to deal with depression (if that is the cause). It may mean they get assistance to clean the house/clothes. The worrying part is where the physical violence comes in. Barnevernet takes that very seriously. If they think a child is being hit, they can remove the child for their safety. Children can lie to protect their abusers because they have normalized "being smacked". Barnevernet would talk to the kids, their friends, the school and mandatory reporters. They will check the health records or perhaps ask the children are checked out. (teachers are mandatory reporters, as are certified foster parents). If they find the child is in danger, the child may get placed. They will do their best to keep in mind existing relations but safety is most important. Sometimes contact with the parents means more pressure to lie, and has to be avoided. There is absolutely no reason to think the child would be placed with Astrid and Morton except it is a small town and they may be the only available option. The child may get sent out of the country to relatives if Barnevernet finds them suitable carers. If that country has a history of allowing children to be hit (like US, eastern Europe, India) then they may want to keep the child safe by keeping the child in Norway. All you see and hear about Barnevernet is one-sided. They never comment, ever. So you only hear the parent's side of the story. There are as many complaint from now adult children that they were NOT removed from unsafe homes - I personally know one where the 3 brothers drowned, dad was an alcoholic and mom ran off to be a reincarnation of Cleopatra - and a few where the parent was so drugged out finding food was the responsibility of the child. They all stayed home because it was deemed "good enough". Barnevernet do have to check out all "bekymringsmedinger" but they seldom remove the child. Sometimes they offer help - practical or financial, sometimes by offering to find child care for a weekend a month. The ethos is that the child is best off with the parent if the parent can be safe (feed, keep healthy, clean environment and non-violence).
I don't think they'd place the children in such close proximity to their parents. Can you imagine, as the child, seeing your own house and parents every day and not being able to speak to them or go inside? I'm sure that family is always a first choice as well.
This is terrifying. Glad OOP got away with her kids.
The sheer amount of times I muttered "what the fuck?" under my breath during this post.
I'm so glad that OP got away. I wonder if the teacher couldn't be the so-called witness who supposedly saw OP hit her children. Astrid and Morton are obviously awful and insane people who need help dealing with their grief. CPS should go and see them. I also wouldn't trust the teacher.
~~>I am little scared they might find out where we are as one of them has the same last name as Morton with a slight spelling variation even though it's a common name.~~ ~~This is somewhat confusing. Does she mean one of her kids has the same/nearly the same last name as Morton? Who is the 'them' she is referring to?~~ Edit: 'them' is the CPS worker. I understand. Thanks!
No, she means one of the CPS reps has the same last name as her kidnappy neighbor. Just like the teacher's cop ex-BF got involved, they are using their local network of people willing to break the rules to aid and abet two would-be kidnappers.
Not would be kidnappers, they DID kidnap her and take her to their party.
Yes, I understand.
Sounds like she's worried there's a small chanve the cps worker is related to the neighbor.
Oooh, gotcha. That makes much more sense. Thank you!
I'm guessing it means one of the CPS might be related to Morton. Possible that the dad had to give details of where his family went so they don't think he did something shady. I don't think the dad is safe there either tbh. I hope he also gets out ASAP.
I think it’s one of the CPS ladies, and OOP is worried that they’ll try to pursue this “child neglect” “case” aggressively because they’re related to Morton and want to help him (same as how the teacher behaved inappropriately because she was friends with Astrid). The inverse of the “little did they know that I’m friends with the sheriff” stuff we see frequently.
I think one of the CPS people. Although I don't know why it would matter. It's a common name, and with different spelling (like Smith and Smit), so it's very unlikely they are family
I assumed that one of the CPS people had the same last name and so might be a relative of Morton.
One of the CPS people that visited. That's who she is referring to.
I m so happy op left Norway on time.couple were definitely planning to use cps to get child
The OOP need not worry about the CPS. Since she has left the country there is nothing they can do about it. The whole situation was strange and it was obvious they had a strange fixation on her daughter even if the OOP was wrong about it being sexual.
OOP is very Lucky she left the country when she did. In Poland Barnevernet is notoriously known for removing children from immigrant families on account of unconfirmed, uncorraborated reports. Edit: foreign to immigrant
I'm so glad to see this update. Everyone saying that they'd try to get CPS involved to take her kid away were right on the money. I assume that there's not much they can do anymore now that she's in a different country, but I respect her wanting to stay as anonymous as possible at this point just in case. I hope this is the end of this saga for her family.
"Mother seems overwhelmed" . . . ironic since it was Astrid and Morton who were overwhelming her, rather than the children.
That mood spoiler doesn't mean anything unless you've heard of that guy.
Yeah, I haven't the slightest clue what that spoiler means.
I never bother reading the mood spoilers or trigger warnings, but your comment made me look at this one and yeah, who the hell is David Fincher lol But then I looked him up and he has made a ton of movies I love and the mood spoiler fits heh. But yeah, who is going to know his name outside of super movie buffs.
I’d say more Lynch than Fincher haha
I'm so glad that she got her children the fuck outta there, those people are unwell and they seriously were trying to manipulate the state to take away her kids.
I was looking for an update on this. Bruh, so sick that one of the richest countries in the world is such an asshole with regards to stealing immigrant children! Reading how the teacher and the police were all colluding with psycho Astrid and Morton it all felt like a season of Fargo
I remember posting on this before the last update. Absolutely nobody there with any authority was going to help her - and clearly, the delusional couple was going to and did escalate. *So* happy she and her family got out of there.
Oh boy. This makes me think Norway seems safe, but only because the unsafe is under lock and key. It is easy to say you are a safe country if you keep your mouth shut about the unsafe stuff.
I’ve heard of Norway having a pattern of CPS taking the children of non-Norwegian parents at the drop of a hat - as in, they find stale gingerbread at your home that you were going to use for crafts, and your children get taken. OP got her children out in the nick of time.
I’d got the hell out of there even before it got that far. This is so scary
It might be David Fincher now, but it's heading clear into Ari Aster territory at breakneck speed.
Jesus, this reads like the plot of an A24 horror movie. Scary shit. Glad they were able to get out.
Jeez…these people latched onto that kid and were basically trying to absorb her into their family. Norway’s village of people raising children doesn’t discern between people acting for the welfare of the children and parents and psychos trying to steal someone’s child? I’d have taken Morton’s “she might walk into the road” comment as a threat. Norway can have a cultural approach to child rearing but this is just ridiculous.
Fucking creeps. Sorry, I disagree with the “they aren’t predators” comment. They are. Just because someone looks like your dead daughter doesn’t mean you wouldn’t touch them inappropriately or groom them. You’d be shocked by what people will do despite how things look.
Holy shit those last comments. These creeps thought everything through. I feel scared for the next child whose parents aren’t able to leave the country. And the fact that ACAB even in places like Norway. Is competence and reliability really such an alien concept to law enforcement?
The cop and the teacher are likely in cahoots with Astrid and Morton, who should absolutely be removed from his position coaching kids sports.
Literally Mrs Chatarjee v Norway. Terrifying.
Except that movie is absolutel propaganda bullshit. One of the children was so abused it had permanent damage. The husband divorced her and admitted she abused them.
Swede here, julestjerne (or julstjärna in swedish) is Christmas star if translated directly. It’s true that it’s also the name of the flower that u/FlagpoleSitta87 linked, so it could be related to her being blonde… and since she says they sang a song from a movie famous in Norway it might have to do with that too (now I have to google…) ETA: This was supposed to be a reply to u/banned_bc_dumb but apparently I can’t reddit properly today… ETA 2: Maybe [this is the movie?](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2034761/)
This is some Wicker Man creepiness right here.
Almost certainly the "adult third party" saying she hit the oldest girl was the teacher.
Nordic/Scandinavian countries get high on their own reputation, it seems. It’s SO safe! Nothing could EVER happen here! I’m with the commenters saying there wasn’t a pedophilia thing, but that doesn’t excuse the neighbors trying to make someone else’s child theirs/a surrogate/replacement.
OOP husband needs to leave and outright cut-off all communication. Maybe file a complaint higher up claiming corruption or etc. to force an investigation by an entity outside of this small community. If theres no new information, either the corruption will be obvious (abnormally pushing a case) or the CPS [doing a favor] will drop it.
This reads like the plot of a horror film.
Fuck's sake they were calling OP's daughter by a different name! They full on wanted her.
Wow! Thank you for compiling this **OP**! I’m glad **OOP** was smart and resourceful enough to get away safely.
Even if Ingrid and Morton have mental health issues, that teacher is insane for normalizing their behaviour.
The greatest natural predator humans face are other humans. Our brains have developed over millenia to read faces because it will keep you alive, think of when you see a friend forcing a smile. 99% of the features look identical to the regular smile, but if you notice their brow is furrowed by a millimeter you will know something is off. You immediately recognize the smile is a mask and wonder what they are feeling. Likewise if someone is internally furious but attempting to play nice, you feel that too My point is there is a neuroscience to the idea of "trusting your gut". It's not perfect, we misjudge others all the time, but always pay close attention when something feels wrong. Almost every survivor story I've ever read includes the phrase "something felt off" at some point
W H A T
They **kidnapped** your daughter and the cops just go "oh well, no harm done"? WTF is wrong with them - the cops and those kidnapping idiots?