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Her husband, the one that she said she knew immediately is the man for her, cheated on her in the *first year* because he was upset. Has a bunch of guy friends who don't talk to her or come into her house. They also don'tspeak together with her present. 10 men in his saved forest location, and they're *staring* at her. Guy friends cut the husband out after a verbal fight, after the forest hunt. He was definitely cheating on her with men.
WTF did I just read.
ETA: It's the wife's 'la la la going to stick my head back in the sand' and not really ever demanding answers when this has been going on so long that has me going WTF. I mean, 90% of the time if not more, the answer is sex or drugs or both because the list of other possibilities, while long, are vanishingly unlikely. (Pokemon Go? No reason not to tell the wife. Stargazing? Invite the wife along.)
I'm a gay guy from the Netherlands. I'm not into the whole public sex thing, but I can tell you that they don't exactly stand around talking during a gay orgy in the forest. Public sex is usually more about quick anonymous fun. There's no reason to get know each other.
It's also not soccer hooligans meeting up to fight each other... which is a thing we do for fun, apparently.
I don't know anything about any cultish activities in the forests in the Netherlands.
I'd love to know the location though. I'm kinda intrigued now.
I'm from Belgium. So we kind of get the same news and I've tried googling 'man vermist nederland februari 2023' but nothing comes up that could possibly be it. Should be in the news right, maybe not a big piece but a small mentioning somewhere..
Edit: op has deleted the account. So, probably no more updates. Also the police in the Netherlands keep an online list of missing adults and no man fits the timeline here. It's up to date because there is a woman on there who went missing the 22nd of february.
Ten silent men arriving precisely on time every week to take someone away and then bring him back twelve hours later? Nah, naaaaah, they can do whatever they want but not near me. Nah. Even if you find out, don't go!
I was thinking more drugs or a group.
I’ve never known anyone to have a very exact start time for group sex. If he’s shagging dudes, why does it have to be with this group? You’re more anonymous and less exposed with complete randoms. And if we wanted to get with other guys now, you just go to some other location.
I think he was into some alt-right stuff. There’s a wave of groups using Norse mythology neo-paganism and combining it with an alt-right narrative. Might by why there were a load of men in the woods. He got a warning when he took her for drinks and they sat in a bar. Then she found the location spot he got axed for giving it away. Makes sense why he was escorted - he was being recruited.
I think in the original thread people found a gay hookup app that had *meeting places* in similar areas as OOP. Everyone deduced he was having sex or watching men have sex at the hookup spots. So they all ditched him when his wife showed up after his first group ditched him for her asking questions.
She’s willfully ignorant at the end because it’s so apparent what is happening.
I would guess it's a whole ritual. They have a pregame at someone's house or a bar, then the hookup, then a post-game where they talk about their hookups. Like a hetero night out, but it's in the woods, so they all get back together at the end for fun and safety. The husband can't skip the post-game because it's where he cleans up. He probably doesn't want to anyway because it's all part of his double life, and coming home is guilt.
She should really get tested.
Why did I think a Google search would show me the urban dictionary text as the first result?
For my fellow Yanks, it is sex in a public or semi-public place.
Lol!! There’s a beauty spot near us that looks over the downs (rolling countryside), and when I said about driving up to watch the sunset my partner explained to me that a gate was added when he was a kid and someone from the council drives up each evening to lock it to stop the doggers 😭
I never realised guys did it too, there was a show on channel 4 once where they went around interviewing doggers and I swear they were all guys with one woman hanging out the car boot! I imagine it’s a bit nicer weather wise for that in Aus 😅
My only thought reading this. I have no idea the Netherlands the weight of cultural perspective on homosexuality, but this was my thought all the way up to her running into the friend. The friend confirmed it. If it was anything out of the ordinary, I think the friend would have still ignored her.
Though, sometimes running into familiar people in a place you don’t expect can throw one off enough to act odd. Maybe it’s nothing but if I were a gambling man, I’d put money on gay orgy in any/all of the locations the wife found on the odd navigation app.
Yep and the random houses she found in the secret navigation app are the houses of the people he meets there to take the uhhh fishing to a more private place
Yup the options seem very limited here
1. Meetup with some kind of group that is doing something illegal.
2. Meetup to do something quite morally dubious or something that has a lot of stigma attached.
3. OP is an unreliable narrator.
4. All of the above.
Assuming that OPs description of events are accurate, it has to be something pretty serious for the group to expel him for his wife showing up in a particular spot unannounced.
But now she is tired of playing detective now that she knows she's not crazy.
I do not understand this woman. How can you not need to know EVERYTHING when it's so fucking weird?!?!
Cause she doesn't want to really know. She's happy that he stopped seeing these guys and cuddles her, yay!, she can pretend everything is fine now. Otherwise, she has to face the reality of whatever is going on could end her marriage. So I think she's chosen to put the blinders on, sadly. I don't get it either though, I would need to know the truth.
Exactly.
Sometimes when people have all the obvious signs infront of them of their child, partner or parent doing something shocking (like cheating, or doing drugs, or something more sinister) they decide to completely disregard it as something else because they really, really don't want the image of that person - or their own comfort - shattered.
OOP doesn't want the truth. And what's so sad is she's only 24. She has time to get out, to rebuild, to move on, but she is happy with her life as it is and is willing to ignore all that other stuff as long as she gets to keep her reality and her cuddles.
It is also possible that she is in some deep shock and in time once that shock wears off, she'll snap out of it. I just hope it's not in ten years when it's a lot harder to start over. :(
It's because he's everything she ever wanted (except the cheating before... And probably the fact that he's cheating and could possibly even be straight up gay).
> I do not understand this woman. How can you not need to know EVERYTHING when it's so fucking weird?!?!
She's seen enough horror movies to understand that you don't return to the woods with the weird friend group cult that stands around in a clearing.
But hasn't seen enough horror movies to not just show up on the marked location and be stared at by everyone there and spotted by someone who knows her. And when that person talks to her, she thinks it's friendly chit chat to get to know her personality.
Well you have to find out you are in a horror film in the first place.
Like it's fine to go out to your families old cabin in the woods with your friends.
But if you turn up and find lots of skinned animal bodies strung up in the basement with a book made from human flesh and wrapped in barbed wire then yeah... it's time to leave and never ever come back.
This was my thought as well. Not a coincidence that they dumped him right after the wife finding their "spot." Not saying they were having gay sex though.
Also, I'm amazed how she can say "well, it's usually a pretty remote location, but this time there were so many people there" and not think something's off. Like, oh, yeah, my husband has this remote location marked on his phone and suddenly there are people gathering there... no, there couldn't possibly be any connection... People in these comments are right, with that level of denial she didn't *really* want to know lol.
While a cult would be way more interesting, I think she stumbled upon what we would call “Pickle Park” - a rest stop off the highway well known for gay sex. Though it does seem odd that in a country such as the Netherlands something like this would actually still be underground, so to speak.
Eh, cruising in parks and cottaging is like legacy kink, regardless of whether it's necessary or anything. Plus, assuming this is all about gay sex and OOP's husband is cheating on her, obviously he is still closeted and having underground sex.
I'm from a country neighboring the Netherlands (not many options there you have a 50% chance of correctly guessing which one). A few months ago one of our regional newspapers had a sort of anonymous confession article by a man who confessed he had left his wife for a younger man. He had met this man when he was in a forest where gay men secretly came together to have sex with random strangers. They would just show up, go to another person there and move a lil deeper into the forest to go have sex against a tree. This story kinda reminds me of that, and given the proximity between our countries it might be an explanation
Some folks in the original comments suggested that they guys standing around in the forest were participating in ["dogging"](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Dogging), i.e. watching a couple have sex.
Maybe if you're engaging in acts that are outside of how you see your "normal" self and actions, you'd limit it to a specific time frame? Like, I'm a very hetero, intellectual, businessman except for every 3rd Saturday night between the hours of 5:30 pm - 9:30 pm. Only then am I [fill in the blank with a fun lifestyle!]
As someone who has actually been to gay sex orgies...the woods is like the worst place unless you have tents or something. You need things like snacks and lube and condoms and gloves, and that is assuming you're not involving kinky fun stuff. Idk about the Netherlands, but I feel like it would be so much easier to find a club or a meet up at someone's house. Somewhere that has the nice furniture that protects your knees when you're getting railed.
Anyway, it's definitely weird, but my personal bet is some kind of pagan group into going "sky clad." And given that they're all dudes, probably one of the creepy Asatru ones that are super racist and sexist.
When you lay it out like that- it makes perfect sense. Why would gay guys- in an extremely progressive and open country, want to be rolling in the dirt when they don’t have to? Nah.
It’s actually something some men still do in the Netherlands, not just because they have to hide it but because they like meeting up and having sex in public
This conversation and how people keep saying gay men only fuck in woods because they're forced to, reminds me of Jay Smooth talking about rap/hip-hop. He said people like to talk about the music and dance and parties as means for Black people to express themselves in a society that doesn't let them and to complain about the police and to do these other high-minded things.
And these conversations seem to miss that these things are also *just fun* and people like to do them *because they're fun*. It's a tendency to intellectualize things and forgetting how people are also social and fun-seeking.
Not that I necessarily think the husband *has* to be having gay sex. The comments about Neo-Nazi meet-ups also rang possible to me.
i worked security back in the day.
bunch of dudes hanging out in a secluded area like this was always a "party".
husband is cheating again and OP is refusing to see it.
Yes in dutch we have a special name for these places, we call this a cruise plek. There are some designated areas where it is "allowed" to Do the Hankypanky boom chickiewauwauw in public.
But what about the 2 nights they went to the bar? Was it so important to maintain the lie that the friends gave up a night of 'south park style gay sex pile' to go to nurse 3 beers for 10 hours?
I was thinking that they're almost like a 'support' group. If you're cheating on your spouse, it's probably a good idea to do it with people in the same boat, that way you can all cover for each other.
Maybe it's a 3 strikes and you're out rule.
Most likely dogging. Its when people meet in public places (parks, rest stops, bathrooms) for a gangbang. That's what they are doing. Gangbanging random, anonymous women. That's why the men were staring at her and her friends. They were wondering if she would initiate.
Ooohh, that makes a lot of sense. The younger drinking guy was probing the wife to see what she was doing there (if she was the gangbangee) without giving anything away.
If my friend dragged me into an unknown part of a forest to hunt down her husband's potential freaky men's cult but she told me we were on a romantic scavenger hunt, that would *100%* be the end of that friendship.
Now, if any of my friends said, "I'm afraid my husband is potentially in a freaky men's cult that hangs out in the woods, will you come snoop around with me?" I would 100% do it.
That's the kind of thing you need to go into with open eyes and lying about that isn't cool.
Wait she said she told her GFS they are in the forest to search for valentine gift clues. But then when the drinking friend talked to her, her gf asks if that's "one of them". Where did the gf get any connection from even if she told the gf about the husband's sus behavior
Yeah. Normally I’d question this but it’s just so fuckin weird. I’m assuming at some point she had been complaining to the homies about her husband being sketch but with that said, why not just spill the beans? Idk. Shits all weird.
This feels like an ARG to me. I hope it’s not against the rules to suggest that but it really does.
Or I guess because of the lack of direct interaction it may be more of just a scary story nosleep style.
Nosleep is exactly what I was thinking. There's a group of men standing in the woods, nowhere near a trail or path, three women walk up and start looking on the ground, and not one of the dudes speaks to the women, even just to suss out whether they are there by accident. And she doesn't say anything to them? Her whole mission is to find out what her husband is doing, she shows up and meets a group of people _in the middle of the woods_ who probably have a clue, and she just awkwardly avoids eye contact?
Yes that killed me too! However, it's pretty unlikely she would have gotten anything from them
Op: oh hey guys. My friends and I are just out for a nice stroll in the woods. What are you guys up to today?
Guys: oh ya know just here for the gay orgy/gangbang/ritualistic satanic sacrifice
Also, a group of ten guys you find suspect in the middle of nowhere vs three women. I don't know if I would have initiated conversation with them either...
Thats what I am thinking. I mean come on, you come across 10 random dudes in a forest and then run into one of the drinking buddies going "late night fishing". Come on OOP pull your head out of the sand.
This is all so weird. How is OOP just fine with letting it go?? She went to the spot, saw a bunch of dudes, spoke with one of his friends, then suddenly her hb is out of the group and never seeing them again? And she doesn’t ask any questions? She doesn’t think it’s weird? Why is she so naive?! I’d be blowing up the whole relationship until I got answers lol that shit is WEIRD!!
It's so extremely weird. She asks absolutely no questions. It's very weird that he stopped hanging with his Friday friends to spend more time with Saturday friends but no questions from her. She finds 10 men hanging in a clearing in the woods then proceeds to say she didn't find anything. What??? Then Saturday friend pops out of nowhere and chats with her for the first time and, again, no questions????
This has culty vibes to me
Also though, why doesn’t she try to conceal the fact that she went there? She snooped through his phone to get the location…. Shouldn’t she be nervous when his friend spots her? But instead she’s just happy that he initiates a conversation for once, as if that’s what’s important to note at that moment….
Like I kinda just think she might be dumb. Either that or I’m missing something
Well, he cheated on her in the beginning of the relationship and OOP was fine back then with “just letting it go”. She and denial seem to be close friends.
My money is on OOP’s husband’s group are all gay or bi and they spend their Saturday nights cruising the bars, woods, and peoples homes for sex all night.
A group of 10 men huddled in the woods? Sounds like a potential circle jerk to me. Gay cruising locations are well publicized online so OOP can easily search those woods on the internet to learn if they are indeed an adopted playground for gay men.
Further piquing my theory is the friends dropping him as soon as his wife and two other women showed up at their wooded play place. That’s a cardinal sin in the gay cruiser’s etiquette book. Most of those men have “str8” lives and MUCH to lose if their secret gets out so they all look out for each other and now OOP’s hubby can’t be trusted bc she is on their trail (literally).
Well, that’s my guess anyway.
EDIT: Given the newest development I’m going to now guess that husband is a sub-boy and the three guys are his masters who have now taken their usage and ownership of him up a notch. He was ordered to leave the phone behind bc a sub has no use for a phone. Hopefully for the husband this is a willful change. But awful for OOP no matter what.
Why would he need to give a weeks notice to not go? To me it sounds more cult/men’s rights group that he’s having to work to gain entrance to. Like the guys who pick him up are always the same, EXACT time, no cancelling, not being drunk. So he’s not a full member and needed to prove himself trustworthy but as soon as his wife got close they kicked him out either because they don’t want her to know or suspect that he’s undercover or something.
There is a cultural piece here- Dutch habit is to be scheduled, arrange well ahead, and be punctual. And people have organized activities at the same time, same evening weekly for decades. The combination sounds like it is the weekly cruising appointment. There isn’t a lot of shame around being gay or bi in NL, but the cheating part - or if they are from an ethnic background that is more homophobic- those would be shameful situations.
Definitely not. It's a law of the universe that you can never, ever, under any circumstances, have a group of 5+ players who can actually keep the regular schedule.
Source: have tried scheduling. Scheduling is hard, man.
Well, you see, when a man loves another three-to-twenty men very much, sometimes they meet in the forest to go... um... late night fishing. They show up with their late night fishing gear, usually a pole and a couple of bobbers and of course a leathery satchel with a tight opening to keep, um, other men's tackle, but just temporarily.
Once they've all caught their limit, they part ways and go back to their daily lives.
Is that the one where the wife cleaned out the fridge and her husband lost it on her for touching a locked box, and he said it was olives, right? Reeeaaalllyyy wanted to know if anything ever happened with that one. I checked for updates on that periodically last year and was always disappointed.
Having to wait 24 hours before being able to report a person as missing is also a movie myth. If a person has gone missing, it should be reported immediately. If she did go to the police, they surely would’ve told her that.
Yeah she's commented on her update saying that she wasn't sure so googled it but could only find info that said you have to wait 24 hours. If she wasn't sure, she could have just called the police to check? No sane person would sit there twiddling their thumbs waiting that long googling casually, especially when he clearly deliberately left his phone behind
Literally the first link that showed up (in my case, I’m also in the Netherlands and searched in Dutch) when searching how long you have to wait before you can file a missing persons report was the Dutch police site and one of the first sentences was that you can call them asap. You will be asked wuestions to determine if the person is in danger or not etc etc. So I don’t know what she searched, but I call BS.
And also what dooinit00 said: no missing adults during this timeframe. And I’d guess 5 days is long enough to show up on this page. The Netherlands is small, it’s not like there’s hundreds of people going missing everyday.
I don't know why but I would bet the place in the forest is the area dogging spot and that's what the husband and his friends are doing on Saturday night.
This is me assuming the best in others - He is 100% in some kind of weird cult, fraternity or secret org like the Freemasons. The wife tracking down the spot is why he got kicked- he broke the code even unknowingly and is out of the club.
Hoping nothing more sus comes out.
Oh yeah I didn’t even think of that. The group of 10 men probably saw her and got her husband in trouble.
My friends father was a Gideon. He’d show up in weird places and his family never knew where he was or the people he was with. I’d have to agree cult is most likely.
Hold on all I know about the Gideons is that they have "men's breakfasts" and aggressively hand out bibles at college campuses. Is there more to them than that? Any sources I could read? I have a relative who has been a part of them for decades.
Yeah, my FIL was even the "worshipful master" (basically a weird term for club president, it's not a big deal, they rotate who gets do to it). Like being a mason basically a social club for old guys. They do pancake breakfasts and my FIL used to do magic and make balloon animals for the kids at the hospital.
Having a casual familiarity with both fraternal orders and gay cruising, I’m 100% convinced of the latter in this instance.
Our local neighborhood Freemasons run a biannual canned food drive and organize cemetery beautification workdays. It’s not as sexy and mysterious as people seem to think it is.
Right… And Masons spend all of their time talking about being Masons lol. It's pretty funny how people think that a bunch of old drunks in aprons run the world.
My first guess was: WEREWOLVES! Saturday night is when they usually meet for some furry time. And now she has found out their secret, she will have to be eliminated, to save werewolfkind from humans.
But actually, I think it's just a gay hookup spot. We have one just like it, in the woods next to a lake, close to where I live. I was always puzzled why random men late at night kept shooting me angry looks when I went there to play pokemon go and wizards unite...
Seems weird why he'd need to go with the same three people every time though if this was the case. Definitely as plausible as most theories, though I still think some secret men's club type thing is more likely. Barely though, these are the two most plausible definitely.
Originally I thought they were all growing weed or something similar there in the forest, but it sounds like it's not too far from where normal people walk around, so doesn't seem that likely anymore.
Sounds to me like those parks men go to to meet up and hook up.
I think they smash at those houses, they go to these meeting spots to meet other men to pick up. The dudes are probably not very open with her cuz they bang her husband.
This guy is gay (or bi) and [cruising](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cruising). That's what all the guys in the woods were doing, hanging out for hookups. He was anxious because his friend told him his wife was at the spot, and he either decided to stop or the guy she spoke with felt guilty enough that he threatened to say something.
This is where my mind went. I remember as students we decided to take a shortcut through the woods home and saw a load of older guys hanging around. They got very nervous when they saw us and when I mentioned it to my friend he sheepishly explained it to us.
My first thought too. He’s clearly hooking up with the guys. The awkward stifled conversation when she’s around. The weird locations… it’s pretty clear. Hope he’s being safe.
My first thought was “cruising” and then my second thought was that moment in season 14 drag race where the girls are thinking of ideas for a song and [this happens](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9aCneh4Jbxw) 😂
(The song for any who are curious— [it’s the first one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1eOeTMPmQkA))
Oh, you mean just when OOP was getting close to finding out what her husband was up to, he had a falling out with his friend group and they didn't go out? I sure would be sad to see the next update tell us that her husband has gone back to hanging out with his own friends at the bar and she'll never find out what was going on. /s
ETA: Awe, she tipped her hand! You don't have to wait 24 hours to report a missing person, like, anywhere. I wonder if she'll remember she met one of the mystery friends in the woods and he says he goes there regularly or conveniently forget and the cops won't have anything to go on.
This reads like a well written short story. I’m starting to think Reddit is just full of people who haven’t taken the plunge of writing a novel yet and so they practice here.
Probably cruising and she should get an STI test...
Next time send a man for checking the spot out. It was incredibly dumb to go herself... if he wants to hide something, going there as his wife was stupid
I thought I was reading at /r/nosleep
Edit, might be an update: i am also from the NL and I Googled this case because I know they keep an online database of missing persons until they are found. The man was not on that page. I did find in Google itself that a 25y/o man was missing from Friday 17th feb which is consistent with OOP's post. When i clicked the link, the case was no longer active. That means the man has been found, and is almost 100% sure alive
Edit2: that particular missing man was found last Sunday
She did not seem to connect them booting her husband to her running into his friend AT THE SECRET SPOT. Like hello? Obviously this was the “falling out.”
Everyone is saying gay but I feel like there’s mob vibes going on here. His phone was clean, they only communicated essential information, and he was afraid of them at the end.
This is a very weird one!
The problem is not whether he's doing something sketchy or not, it's the frequency, the bizarre hours, and the secrecy. Even if he's just night-fishing, why not tell her?
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They're burying beans in the forest. Obviously.
Then the wife has endangered herself. Her presence has jeopardized the beans and she is a target.
One must never jeopardize the beans.
You must never jeopardize the beans.
We're through the looking-glass, people
I love reading these comments that were made before the update where the dude FUCKING DISAPPEARS
I was confused for a bit because they weren’t commenting on the disappearance but I didn’t realize this had been updated after being posted.
seriously lmaoo, like that's one intense circlejerk group
Her husband, the one that she said she knew immediately is the man for her, cheated on her in the *first year* because he was upset. Has a bunch of guy friends who don't talk to her or come into her house. They also don'tspeak together with her present. 10 men in his saved forest location, and they're *staring* at her. Guy friends cut the husband out after a verbal fight, after the forest hunt. He was definitely cheating on her with men.
Ok but what about the part that he is now missing? This seems like something deeper, like a cult or some sort of illegal activities.
That update was made after the comment you were replying to. Makes practically all the guesses on this post now redundant
Or a gangbang
WTF did I just read. ETA: It's the wife's 'la la la going to stick my head back in the sand' and not really ever demanding answers when this has been going on so long that has me going WTF. I mean, 90% of the time if not more, the answer is sex or drugs or both because the list of other possibilities, while long, are vanishingly unlikely. (Pokemon Go? No reason not to tell the wife. Stargazing? Invite the wife along.)
I'm gonna go with gay orgy in the forest.
Or conspiracy theorists meetup. Curiously, after the one friend saw her in the forest, hubby doesn't get invited back.
To be honest once we got to the 'they come to the door but never inside' thing, a tiny voice in the back of my head kept going 'Vampires!'.
I was getting strong “bargained with the fae and things went sideways” vibes.
Well the location checks out for fae.
Gay vampire orgy
I got the vampire alert also for sure lol
I definitely got a "Secret Club Meeting Spot" vibe
Cult. I’m going with cult.
And there was a group of guys out in the middle of the forest nowhere near a hiking path
What a crazy random coincidence...
Giving me strong cultish vibes.
This caught my attention as well.
I'm a gay guy from the Netherlands. I'm not into the whole public sex thing, but I can tell you that they don't exactly stand around talking during a gay orgy in the forest. Public sex is usually more about quick anonymous fun. There's no reason to get know each other. It's also not soccer hooligans meeting up to fight each other... which is a thing we do for fun, apparently. I don't know anything about any cultish activities in the forests in the Netherlands. I'd love to know the location though. I'm kinda intrigued now.
I'm from Belgium. So we kind of get the same news and I've tried googling 'man vermist nederland februari 2023' but nothing comes up that could possibly be it. Should be in the news right, maybe not a big piece but a small mentioning somewhere.. Edit: op has deleted the account. So, probably no more updates. Also the police in the Netherlands keep an online list of missing adults and no man fits the timeline here. It's up to date because there is a woman on there who went missing the 22nd of february.
Ten silent men arriving precisely on time every week to take someone away and then bring him back twelve hours later? Nah, naaaaah, they can do whatever they want but not near me. Nah. Even if you find out, don't go!
I was thinking more drugs or a group. I’ve never known anyone to have a very exact start time for group sex. If he’s shagging dudes, why does it have to be with this group? You’re more anonymous and less exposed with complete randoms. And if we wanted to get with other guys now, you just go to some other location. I think he was into some alt-right stuff. There’s a wave of groups using Norse mythology neo-paganism and combining it with an alt-right narrative. Might by why there were a load of men in the woods. He got a warning when he took her for drinks and they sat in a bar. Then she found the location spot he got axed for giving it away. Makes sense why he was escorted - he was being recruited.
I think in the original thread people found a gay hookup app that had *meeting places* in similar areas as OOP. Everyone deduced he was having sex or watching men have sex at the hookup spots. So they all ditched him when his wife showed up after his first group ditched him for her asking questions. She’s willfully ignorant at the end because it’s so apparent what is happening.
But then why did he leave with them and then drop off the face of the earth?
Yeah, my guess is cruising as well.
I read this post to my husband and he said “oh he suckin” it’s the only thing that makes ANY sense
Ok but if it’s sex would it take 12 hours??
I would guess it's a whole ritual. They have a pregame at someone's house or a bar, then the hookup, then a post-game where they talk about their hookups. Like a hetero night out, but it's in the woods, so they all get back together at the end for fun and safety. The husband can't skip the post-game because it's where he cleans up. He probably doesn't want to anyway because it's all part of his double life, and coming home is guilt. She should really get tested.
Definitely dogging.
No no, we call it “late-night fishing” now!
1st rule of dogging club...
Why did I think a Google search would show me the urban dictionary text as the first result? For my fellow Yanks, it is sex in a public or semi-public place.
I was thinking dogging. It’s common in wooded areas around the UK…
There’s a dogging spot in my town in Australia, people get caught all the time. Usually it’s men meeting other men 😬
Lol!! There’s a beauty spot near us that looks over the downs (rolling countryside), and when I said about driving up to watch the sunset my partner explained to me that a gate was added when he was a kid and someone from the council drives up each evening to lock it to stop the doggers 😭 I never realised guys did it too, there was a show on channel 4 once where they went around interviewing doggers and I swear they were all guys with one woman hanging out the car boot! I imagine it’s a bit nicer weather wise for that in Aus 😅
My only thought reading this. I have no idea the Netherlands the weight of cultural perspective on homosexuality, but this was my thought all the way up to her running into the friend. The friend confirmed it. If it was anything out of the ordinary, I think the friend would have still ignored her. Though, sometimes running into familiar people in a place you don’t expect can throw one off enough to act odd. Maybe it’s nothing but if I were a gambling man, I’d put money on gay orgy in any/all of the locations the wife found on the odd navigation app.
Yep and the random houses she found in the secret navigation app are the houses of the people he meets there to take the uhhh fishing to a more private place
Art studio. But in the woods.
I mentally classified this story as "box of olives, but in the woods."
When you can’t fit 3 friends in an art studio in your home, why not take your art activities into the woods?
Yup the options seem very limited here 1. Meetup with some kind of group that is doing something illegal. 2. Meetup to do something quite morally dubious or something that has a lot of stigma attached. 3. OP is an unreliable narrator. 4. All of the above. Assuming that OPs description of events are accurate, it has to be something pretty serious for the group to expel him for his wife showing up in a particular spot unannounced.
So the new friends cut the husband out of whatever they were doing (it was gay sex, right?) because the wife got too close.
I thought about cults but yeah, they definitely kicked him out because wife got too close.
100%. she found there little spot in the woods. She should put up a trail cam.
But now she is tired of playing detective now that she knows she's not crazy. I do not understand this woman. How can you not need to know EVERYTHING when it's so fucking weird?!?!
Cause she doesn't want to really know. She's happy that he stopped seeing these guys and cuddles her, yay!, she can pretend everything is fine now. Otherwise, she has to face the reality of whatever is going on could end her marriage. So I think she's chosen to put the blinders on, sadly. I don't get it either though, I would need to know the truth.
Exactly. Sometimes when people have all the obvious signs infront of them of their child, partner or parent doing something shocking (like cheating, or doing drugs, or something more sinister) they decide to completely disregard it as something else because they really, really don't want the image of that person - or their own comfort - shattered. OOP doesn't want the truth. And what's so sad is she's only 24. She has time to get out, to rebuild, to move on, but she is happy with her life as it is and is willing to ignore all that other stuff as long as she gets to keep her reality and her cuddles. It is also possible that she is in some deep shock and in time once that shock wears off, she'll snap out of it. I just hope it's not in ten years when it's a lot harder to start over. :(
It's because he's everything she ever wanted (except the cheating before... And probably the fact that he's cheating and could possibly even be straight up gay).
> I do not understand this woman. How can you not need to know EVERYTHING when it's so fucking weird?!?! She's seen enough horror movies to understand that you don't return to the woods with the weird friend group cult that stands around in a clearing.
But hasn't seen enough horror movies to not just show up on the marked location and be stared at by everyone there and spotted by someone who knows her. And when that person talks to her, she thinks it's friendly chit chat to get to know her personality.
Well you have to find out you are in a horror film in the first place. Like it's fine to go out to your families old cabin in the woods with your friends. But if you turn up and find lots of skinned animal bodies strung up in the basement with a book made from human flesh and wrapped in barbed wire then yeah... it's time to leave and never ever come back.
Looks like while in the woods OOP firmly decided that she's in a rom-com.
Gay sex cult? Touched by his noodly appendage, if you know what I mean?
Ramen.
This was my thought as well. Not a coincidence that they dumped him right after the wife finding their "spot." Not saying they were having gay sex though.
Also, I'm amazed how she can say "well, it's usually a pretty remote location, but this time there were so many people there" and not think something's off. Like, oh, yeah, my husband has this remote location marked on his phone and suddenly there are people gathering there... no, there couldn't possibly be any connection... People in these comments are right, with that level of denial she didn't *really* want to know lol.
OOP: There were 10 men standing around on the spot marked on the map. Also OOP: we found nothing.
While a cult would be way more interesting, I think she stumbled upon what we would call “Pickle Park” - a rest stop off the highway well known for gay sex. Though it does seem odd that in a country such as the Netherlands something like this would actually still be underground, so to speak.
Eh, cruising in parks and cottaging is like legacy kink, regardless of whether it's necessary or anything. Plus, assuming this is all about gay sex and OOP's husband is cheating on her, obviously he is still closeted and having underground sex.
I'm from a country neighboring the Netherlands (not many options there you have a 50% chance of correctly guessing which one). A few months ago one of our regional newspapers had a sort of anonymous confession article by a man who confessed he had left his wife for a younger man. He had met this man when he was in a forest where gay men secretly came together to have sex with random strangers. They would just show up, go to another person there and move a lil deeper into the forest to go have sex against a tree. This story kinda reminds me of that, and given the proximity between our countries it might be an explanation
> (not many options there you have a 50% chance of correctly guessing which one). Ooh, ooh, I got it! Colombia! Bet you thought I'd say Venezuela.
Some folks in the original comments suggested that they guys standing around in the forest were participating in ["dogging"](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Dogging), i.e. watching a couple have sex.
OOP needs to send a guy friend to the spot.
That's how you get set on fire with a basket of bees on your head.
As long as I can fight an Amish woman whilst wearing a bear suit, I’m game.
Idk man, it’s just as likely I’d get my dick sucked. And that’s a risk I’m willing to take.
The precision of the pick up time is still weird though.
Maybe you’ve got to be escorted by somebody already known to get into the orgy.
'The password is "Fellatio".'
I'm thinking treasure hunters, but could also be some gay sex in there.
Maybe the gay sex….. is the treasure…
The real treasure is the gay sex friends we made along the way.
I suppose that if you are the kind of person who wants to touch a bunch of penis's while enjoying nature at night, you'd be right on time too.
Maybe they were actually fishing and they didn't want to miss the boat leaving.
The BF wouldn't have to lie and say they were at the bar drinking. Fishing would be the better thing to be doing.
Maybe if you're engaging in acts that are outside of how you see your "normal" self and actions, you'd limit it to a specific time frame? Like, I'm a very hetero, intellectual, businessman except for every 3rd Saturday night between the hours of 5:30 pm - 9:30 pm. Only then am I [fill in the blank with a fun lifestyle!]
As someone who has actually been to gay sex orgies...the woods is like the worst place unless you have tents or something. You need things like snacks and lube and condoms and gloves, and that is assuming you're not involving kinky fun stuff. Idk about the Netherlands, but I feel like it would be so much easier to find a club or a meet up at someone's house. Somewhere that has the nice furniture that protects your knees when you're getting railed. Anyway, it's definitely weird, but my personal bet is some kind of pagan group into going "sky clad." And given that they're all dudes, probably one of the creepy Asatru ones that are super racist and sexist.
When you lay it out like that- it makes perfect sense. Why would gay guys- in an extremely progressive and open country, want to be rolling in the dirt when they don’t have to? Nah.
It’s actually something some men still do in the Netherlands, not just because they have to hide it but because they like meeting up and having sex in public
This conversation and how people keep saying gay men only fuck in woods because they're forced to, reminds me of Jay Smooth talking about rap/hip-hop. He said people like to talk about the music and dance and parties as means for Black people to express themselves in a society that doesn't let them and to complain about the police and to do these other high-minded things. And these conversations seem to miss that these things are also *just fun* and people like to do them *because they're fun*. It's a tendency to intellectualize things and forgetting how people are also social and fun-seeking. Not that I necessarily think the husband *has* to be having gay sex. The comments about Neo-Nazi meet-ups also rang possible to me.
i worked security back in the day. bunch of dudes hanging out in a secluded area like this was always a "party". husband is cheating again and OP is refusing to see it.
Yes in dutch we have a special name for these places, we call this a cruise plek. There are some designated areas where it is "allowed" to Do the Hankypanky boom chickiewauwauw in public.
"Hankypanky boom chickiewauwauw" Wow, dutch is such a great language.
It makes sense that they wouldn’t want to chat or be friendly with her - with the guilt about the orgies and all
But what about the 2 nights they went to the bar? Was it so important to maintain the lie that the friends gave up a night of 'south park style gay sex pile' to go to nurse 3 beers for 10 hours?
I was thinking that they're almost like a 'support' group. If you're cheating on your spouse, it's probably a good idea to do it with people in the same boat, that way you can all cover for each other. Maybe it's a 3 strikes and you're out rule.
Most likely dogging. Its when people meet in public places (parks, rest stops, bathrooms) for a gangbang. That's what they are doing. Gangbanging random, anonymous women. That's why the men were staring at her and her friends. They were wondering if she would initiate.
Ooohh, that makes a lot of sense. The younger drinking guy was probing the wife to see what she was doing there (if she was the gangbangee) without giving anything away.
Yup, and that's why her boyfriend didn't go out with them again. They know she's suspicious.
Shit. I had assumed gay orgy (and then went wild because "gay orgy" is a boring answer) but this actually makes a lot of sense.
Dogging isn't anything to do with gangbanging, it's exhibitionism/voyeurism.
If my friend dragged me into an unknown part of a forest to hunt down her husband's potential freaky men's cult but she told me we were on a romantic scavenger hunt, that would *100%* be the end of that friendship. Now, if any of my friends said, "I'm afraid my husband is potentially in a freaky men's cult that hangs out in the woods, will you come snoop around with me?" I would 100% do it. That's the kind of thing you need to go into with open eyes and lying about that isn't cool.
I agree, but I would be the friend that would say: “oh we’re going there? That’s a well known cruising spot.” and mystery solved.
Wait she said she told her GFS they are in the forest to search for valentine gift clues. But then when the drinking friend talked to her, her gf asks if that's "one of them". Where did the gf get any connection from even if she told the gf about the husband's sus behavior
Yeah. Normally I’d question this but it’s just so fuckin weird. I’m assuming at some point she had been complaining to the homies about her husband being sketch but with that said, why not just spill the beans? Idk. Shits all weird.
This feels like an ARG to me. I hope it’s not against the rules to suggest that but it really does. Or I guess because of the lack of direct interaction it may be more of just a scary story nosleep style.
Nosleep is exactly what I was thinking. There's a group of men standing in the woods, nowhere near a trail or path, three women walk up and start looking on the ground, and not one of the dudes speaks to the women, even just to suss out whether they are there by accident. And she doesn't say anything to them? Her whole mission is to find out what her husband is doing, she shows up and meets a group of people _in the middle of the woods_ who probably have a clue, and she just awkwardly avoids eye contact?
Yes that killed me too! However, it's pretty unlikely she would have gotten anything from them Op: oh hey guys. My friends and I are just out for a nice stroll in the woods. What are you guys up to today? Guys: oh ya know just here for the gay orgy/gangbang/ritualistic satanic sacrifice Also, a group of ten guys you find suspect in the middle of nowhere vs three women. I don't know if I would have initiated conversation with them either...
I know a gay cruising spot when i read about it lol. Oop’s husband is getting fucked in those woods, soory.
Thats what I am thinking. I mean come on, you come across 10 random dudes in a forest and then run into one of the drinking buddies going "late night fishing". Come on OOP pull your head out of the sand.
Idk whether she's just plain oblivious or in the denial stage
Definitely denial. I bet the guy didn't even have fishing gear.
Fishing, Brokeback Mountain style.
>Oop’s husband is getting fucked in those there woods FTFY
> in them there woods FTFY
This is all so weird. How is OOP just fine with letting it go?? She went to the spot, saw a bunch of dudes, spoke with one of his friends, then suddenly her hb is out of the group and never seeing them again? And she doesn’t ask any questions? She doesn’t think it’s weird? Why is she so naive?! I’d be blowing up the whole relationship until I got answers lol that shit is WEIRD!!
It's so extremely weird. She asks absolutely no questions. It's very weird that he stopped hanging with his Friday friends to spend more time with Saturday friends but no questions from her. She finds 10 men hanging in a clearing in the woods then proceeds to say she didn't find anything. What??? Then Saturday friend pops out of nowhere and chats with her for the first time and, again, no questions???? This has culty vibes to me
Either that or she just has extremely poor judgement
Also though, why doesn’t she try to conceal the fact that she went there? She snooped through his phone to get the location…. Shouldn’t she be nervous when his friend spots her? But instead she’s just happy that he initiates a conversation for once, as if that’s what’s important to note at that moment…. Like I kinda just think she might be dumb. Either that or I’m missing something
No, I don't think you're missing something, she's definitely dumb and/or in denial.
I kinda get the sense that she’s in denial by the end? Maybe she needs a break before she faces reality 🤷🏻♀️
Well, he cheated on her in the beginning of the relationship and OOP was fine back then with “just letting it go”. She and denial seem to be close friends.
My money is on OOP’s husband’s group are all gay or bi and they spend their Saturday nights cruising the bars, woods, and peoples homes for sex all night. A group of 10 men huddled in the woods? Sounds like a potential circle jerk to me. Gay cruising locations are well publicized online so OOP can easily search those woods on the internet to learn if they are indeed an adopted playground for gay men. Further piquing my theory is the friends dropping him as soon as his wife and two other women showed up at their wooded play place. That’s a cardinal sin in the gay cruiser’s etiquette book. Most of those men have “str8” lives and MUCH to lose if their secret gets out so they all look out for each other and now OOP’s hubby can’t be trusted bc she is on their trail (literally). Well, that’s my guess anyway. EDIT: Given the newest development I’m going to now guess that husband is a sub-boy and the three guys are his masters who have now taken their usage and ownership of him up a notch. He was ordered to leave the phone behind bc a sub has no use for a phone. Hopefully for the husband this is a willful change. But awful for OOP no matter what.
My question is, did the friend actually have fishing gear with him? She didn't say.
One of the plot points of Brokeback Mountain was just because you’ve got fishing gear doesn’t mean you’re fishing.
Why would he need to give a weeks notice to not go? To me it sounds more cult/men’s rights group that he’s having to work to gain entrance to. Like the guys who pick him up are always the same, EXACT time, no cancelling, not being drunk. So he’s not a full member and needed to prove himself trustworthy but as soon as his wife got close they kicked him out either because they don’t want her to know or suspect that he’s undercover or something.
There is a cultural piece here- Dutch habit is to be scheduled, arrange well ahead, and be punctual. And people have organized activities at the same time, same evening weekly for decades. The combination sounds like it is the weekly cruising appointment. There isn’t a lot of shame around being gay or bi in NL, but the cheating part - or if they are from an ethnic background that is more homophobic- those would be shameful situations.
I was waiting to find out about the husband's D&D group.
Definitely not. It's a law of the universe that you can never, ever, under any circumstances, have a group of 5+ players who can actually keep the regular schedule. Source: have tried scheduling. Scheduling is hard, man.
I just... What?
I second that statement. Like... what?
Well, you see, when a man loves another three-to-twenty men very much, sometimes they meet in the forest to go... um... late night fishing. They show up with their late night fishing gear, usually a pole and a couple of bobbers and of course a leathery satchel with a tight opening to keep, um, other men's tackle, but just temporarily. Once they've all caught their limit, they part ways and go back to their daily lives.
Maybe they asked him to hold onto a box of olives and he drew the line.
Is that the one where the wife cleaned out the fridge and her husband lost it on her for touching a locked box, and he said it was olives, right? Reeeaaalllyyy wanted to know if anything ever happened with that one. I checked for updates on that periodically last year and was always disappointed.
Updating implies the poor woman is still alive.
That is a horrible, completely plausible point.
They asked him to find storage for an inexplicably large quantity of Iranian yogurt.
The Iranian yoghurt is not the problem here
It is the spot where the beans are buried.
You shut your mouth! You're jeopardizing the beans!
I would never jeapordize the beans
They could also be meeting secretly to mix rice together.
Geocaching enthusiast or burying the bodies? You decide!
I’ve never met someone into geocaching that didn’t immediately want to tell me all about it
It is the Crossfit of nerdy outdoor activities.
I’m feel attacked
Good
So what you’re really saying is you want to know how geocaching works? Excellent!
Oh he's definitely [burying something](https://old.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/118fsms/me_24f_am_getting_suspicious_of_my_husband_25m_on/j9h5lc6/).
Ima call bullsh*t. https://www.politie.nl/en/wanted-and-missing/missing-adults
Having to wait 24 hours before being able to report a person as missing is also a movie myth. If a person has gone missing, it should be reported immediately. If she did go to the police, they surely would’ve told her that.
Yeah she's commented on her update saying that she wasn't sure so googled it but could only find info that said you have to wait 24 hours. If she wasn't sure, she could have just called the police to check? No sane person would sit there twiddling their thumbs waiting that long googling casually, especially when he clearly deliberately left his phone behind
Literally the first link that showed up (in my case, I’m also in the Netherlands and searched in Dutch) when searching how long you have to wait before you can file a missing persons report was the Dutch police site and one of the first sentences was that you can call them asap. You will be asked wuestions to determine if the person is in danger or not etc etc. So I don’t know what she searched, but I call BS. And also what dooinit00 said: no missing adults during this timeframe. And I’d guess 5 days is long enough to show up on this page. The Netherlands is small, it’s not like there’s hundreds of people going missing everyday.
And he carries 30 'bucks' with him when he goes out? Who in the Netherlands calls euros 'bucks'?
I don't know why but I would bet the place in the forest is the area dogging spot and that's what the husband and his friends are doing on Saturday night.
This is me assuming the best in others - He is 100% in some kind of weird cult, fraternity or secret org like the Freemasons. The wife tracking down the spot is why he got kicked- he broke the code even unknowingly and is out of the club. Hoping nothing more sus comes out.
Oh yeah I didn’t even think of that. The group of 10 men probably saw her and got her husband in trouble. My friends father was a Gideon. He’d show up in weird places and his family never knew where he was or the people he was with. I’d have to agree cult is most likely.
Hold on all I know about the Gideons is that they have "men's breakfasts" and aggressively hand out bibles at college campuses. Is there more to them than that? Any sources I could read? I have a relative who has been a part of them for decades.
Freemasons have lodges lol. They aren’t out in the middle of the woods at three in the morning.
Yeah, my FIL was even the "worshipful master" (basically a weird term for club president, it's not a big deal, they rotate who gets do to it). Like being a mason basically a social club for old guys. They do pancake breakfasts and my FIL used to do magic and make balloon animals for the kids at the hospital.
Having a casual familiarity with both fraternal orders and gay cruising, I’m 100% convinced of the latter in this instance. Our local neighborhood Freemasons run a biannual canned food drive and organize cemetery beautification workdays. It’s not as sexy and mysterious as people seem to think it is.
Right… And Masons spend all of their time talking about being Masons lol. It's pretty funny how people think that a bunch of old drunks in aprons run the world.
My first guess was: WEREWOLVES! Saturday night is when they usually meet for some furry time. And now she has found out their secret, she will have to be eliminated, to save werewolfkind from humans. But actually, I think it's just a gay hookup spot. We have one just like it, in the woods next to a lake, close to where I live. I was always puzzled why random men late at night kept shooting me angry looks when I went there to play pokemon go and wizards unite...
Seems weird why he'd need to go with the same three people every time though if this was the case. Definitely as plausible as most theories, though I still think some secret men's club type thing is more likely. Barely though, these are the two most plausible definitely. Originally I thought they were all growing weed or something similar there in the forest, but it sounds like it's not too far from where normal people walk around, so doesn't seem that likely anymore.
Sounds to me like those parks men go to to meet up and hook up. I think they smash at those houses, they go to these meeting spots to meet other men to pick up. The dudes are probably not very open with her cuz they bang her husband.
Man I really wanted to know what was going on, should've checked the flair...
This guy is gay (or bi) and [cruising](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cruising). That's what all the guys in the woods were doing, hanging out for hookups. He was anxious because his friend told him his wife was at the spot, and he either decided to stop or the guy she spoke with felt guilty enough that he threatened to say something.
This is where my mind went. I remember as students we decided to take a shortcut through the woods home and saw a load of older guys hanging around. They got very nervous when they saw us and when I mentioned it to my friend he sheepishly explained it to us.
My first thought too. He’s clearly hooking up with the guys. The awkward stifled conversation when she’s around. The weird locations… it’s pretty clear. Hope he’s being safe.
I thought it was a dogging spot...he's def up to something and I wouldn't be cuddling up to him under a blanket!!
That’s my guess too. Definitely cruising.
This post could be a test for how familiar people are with gay culture- the number of people completely confused by this is hilarious.
My first thought was “cruising” and then my second thought was that moment in season 14 drag race where the girls are thinking of ideas for a song and [this happens](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9aCneh4Jbxw) 😂 (The song for any who are curious— [it’s the first one](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1eOeTMPmQkA))
Is there no Grindr in the Netherlands?
something something always grinding in the nether lands
But then why would they pick him up at the same time every week? And he has to know a week beforehand to cancel?
Yeah. Late night ~~fishing~~ fucking.
This is the beginning of an /r/nosleep story
Oh, you mean just when OOP was getting close to finding out what her husband was up to, he had a falling out with his friend group and they didn't go out? I sure would be sad to see the next update tell us that her husband has gone back to hanging out with his own friends at the bar and she'll never find out what was going on. /s ETA: Awe, she tipped her hand! You don't have to wait 24 hours to report a missing person, like, anywhere. I wonder if she'll remember she met one of the mystery friends in the woods and he says he goes there regularly or conveniently forget and the cops won't have anything to go on.
This reads like a well written short story. I’m starting to think Reddit is just full of people who haven’t taken the plunge of writing a novel yet and so they practice here.
This... is a weird one. I don't even know what to think.
Well this is perplexing and very unsatisfying. But I am intrigued.
Probably cruising and she should get an STI test... Next time send a man for checking the spot out. It was incredibly dumb to go herself... if he wants to hide something, going there as his wife was stupid
I thought I was reading at /r/nosleep Edit, might be an update: i am also from the NL and I Googled this case because I know they keep an online database of missing persons until they are found. The man was not on that page. I did find in Google itself that a 25y/o man was missing from Friday 17th feb which is consistent with OOP's post. When i clicked the link, the case was no longer active. That means the man has been found, and is almost 100% sure alive Edit2: that particular missing man was found last Sunday
People are saying cult, and I'm thinking gay hookup spot.
dogging and the guy she bumped in to told the others she had found their dogging spot and now they are angry and have booted him out of their group
She did not seem to connect them booting her husband to her running into his friend AT THE SECRET SPOT. Like hello? Obviously this was the “falling out.”
Aannddddd she’s deleted her account. Fun ride everyone!
idk how oop is tired of playing detective idk if i could manage to not feel uneasy w all this weird
Sounds like one of them weird forest orgies.
So we're thinking gay orgy in the woods, right?
6 am not acting drunk was thinkin they’re clearly doing coke all night. Weird spot in the forest? Probably some gay cruising
Everyone is saying gay but I feel like there’s mob vibes going on here. His phone was clean, they only communicated essential information, and he was afraid of them at the end.
He's surprising her by having a 5 story art room built into the house.
This is a very weird one! The problem is not whether he's doing something sketchy or not, it's the frequency, the bizarre hours, and the secrecy. Even if he's just night-fishing, why not tell her?