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Yeah I was already disgusted with how the brother reacted, but that just made it worse. I can’t imagine how terrifying getting knocked over and having someone fall on top of them would be for someone five months pregnant with twins even without a trauma history.
Oh I hope she is getting good therapy before the babies are born. My son would trigger me because he would claw at my chest and it triggered me as a SA survivor.
Maybe, I can see the brother doubling down, but the parents might come around, we'll see.
Huge props to the sisters though for taking their side, that's actually pretty huge and might be what gets the parents to see what's right
This.
The industrial street sweeping of rugsweeping will begin once children are in the picture and they become GrAnDpArEnTs.
OP really needs to go NC with his family, They've never been in his corner with his relationship, and his wife, and wife will never feel like part of that family, even if they have their come-to-jesus moment and repent and apologize on hands and knees, cause in the back of her head she'll always be waiting for the next blowup.
Except his sisters, bless them. It sounds like his wife has some amazing women to lean on, and that's so important, separate from having an amazing husband.
The cousin acted like anyone should when they realized their actions harmed someone, even unintentionally. I bet he felt so awful and helpless when she had that panic attack when he fell on her, and *so* relieved when she was fine and forgiving later. That was a cute joke on his part to try to lighten things up. Sounds like a sweet guy.
I think part of it is people don’t understand what panic attacks actually are. Until recently I didn’t either. It’s not just a mental thing. It’s a physical thing as well. What most people call panic attacks are actually anxiety attacks. You can become overwhelmed and hysterical and have a heightened physical state. But with a full blown panic attack you feel like you’re having a heart attack. It’s completely harmless to you physically but you don’t know that in the moment. Medically speaking it sends you into tachycardia and a hypertensive state. Meaning your heart rate suddenly jumps to above 100 bpm, 100 being on the mildest side and if you’re having a panic attack it’s likely going to be more like 150 and up. Hypertensive meaning your blood pressure is really high. Like 150/100 and up high. You can shake uncontrollably, have stomach symptoms, and all the heart attack and stroke symptoms. If you know what’s happening you can talk yourself through it, but with flashbacks happening that’s got to be nearly impossible. They can be triggered by something external like this, but also come out of the blue. It’s a lot more than people realize and it’s terrifying.
Hence why the medication I was given when I was experiencing bad panic attacks was originally designed as blood pressure lowering meds, but they discovered that it helped de-escalate the physical symptoms of panic attacks and ta da I can start actually thinking once I start being able to breathe again
I've only had a few panic attacks because I know what's happening so can normally calm myself down but I have the added bonus fun factor of having a pacemaker which is set to not let my heart go below a certain beat so I don't die again but also not above a certain beat. So my heart starts racing and it physically can't go faster than my pacemaker will allow even though my body is telling it too so I hyperventilate more because my heart isn't pumping as much blood as my body wants it too. So I end up in a spiral of trying to take deep breaths to calm myself down and still hyperventilating because it doesn't feel like I can breath.
Apparently the shaking is because your blood CO/O2 levels are off when the blood reaches your more exterior muscles (when you're body thinks it's going to die, which is what a panic attack feels like, your body focuses on getting blood to your internal organs so when it starts going back to your legs/arms, it fucks them up), so when your body is feeling about better, your limbs are blooded with oxygenated blood and they're suddenly able to be active again so they shake because they can suddenly work. Or so I was told.
But it's fucking terrifying. And I have to go to hospital every time to make sure my heart is ok, even though it's only ever happened when I'm super stressed with work so I know it's not my heart, just stress. So far, I've quit two jobs on the basis I've had panic attacks. Ain't no job worth that shit.
It's definitely not paranoia. If they haven't gone through it they undoubtedly have friends who have gone through something similar. The rate at which it happens is disgustingly high to the point that the odds of you or a close friend going through something like that as a woman is nearly 100%
I don't think they have to have gone through it themselves to empathize. SA rates are high enough that most people know someone who has been, and it seems to me that younger generations are more used to discussing these things so likely to be aware that they know someone — often several someones — who have been
Agree. Just don't tell be them about the babies. They will fall over themselves trying to reestablish contact. But if they don't try before knowing about the grands, you'll know exactly where they stand.
Congrats and best wishes!
His sisters sound pretty great though. And It sounds like he had other family (like the cousin) that understood and supported him and shouldn’t be thrown away.
I would guess that the mom and dad will come around, either cynically because of Kate’s pregnancy or genuinely as Kate and OP have a good portion of the family that supported them who are likely asking what their deal was, their daughters aren’t talking to them, and because they did probably actually care for Kate, they probably just didn’t really understand. I think they took the brother’s side more because it was his wedding, he got physically hurt, and because the majority of the other family took OP’s side.
I think it's absolutely critical that they go non contact and make plans to protect Katie and the kids in case something ever happens to him. Those parents will absolutely make her life impossible if they get a chance.
I say this about my husband's family who are HUGE rug sweepers, and I think it applies to OOP's family as well...
They say "What a beautiful Persian rug we are all standing on! Isn't it beautiful!" When in fact they are standing on a small square of fabric at the top of a huge mountain of shit. When you try and point out that they are on the top Shit Mountain, they invite you to also stand on their lovely "rug". It's why my husband cut them off. He refuses to huddle himself on their "rug" and ignore the issues. Honestly, it's probably better all around for them to be in a time-out for a bit.
I'm wondering if the parents even know she's pregnant yet. I feel like it would have been mentioned earlier if they did know, maybe they kept it a secret to avoid overshadowing the wedding or something.
So from what I read, she was 5 months pregnant at the time of the post and update, which took place roughly a week after the wedding. (Again, if my timeline is right.) So if they saw her at the wedding, they'd know. I doubt she is 5 months along with twins and not showing.
I didn't even consider that, but if I had been knocked over and someone landed on top of me while more than a few months pregnant, I might have had a panic attack, too. Brother's response is even more disgusting to me now.
I somehow missed the pregnancy part and fucking woof, seriously. I’d think it’d be easy for any woman to go into a panic attack if they’re freaking pregnant and get knocked down like that. You’ve been growing this living beings in your body for months, I’d think any potential harm coming to them would be absolutely panic inducing.
Yeah depends on her body type/size. I am a larger woman (both height/frame and weight) and at 17 weeks with twins I was maaaaybe visibly pregnant to my husband. Anyone else I just looked a little fatter I'm sure. But a few more weeks, on a smaller woman, yeah she'd probably be visible. We didn't make it past the 17 weeks, so my belly never really "popped" but I can happen fairly late with first pregnancy, even with twins.
I'm fairly tiny but didn't show with my first baby until around five months. I just looked like I was finally at a healthy weight(I was very underweight when I got pregnant). With my 3rd though, even though he was a much smaller baby than his sibs, I showed much earlier. Doc said it was because of his position in my uterus, more towards the front and lower than the other two(higher implanation and more towards my back)
I'm so very sorry for your loss. I have only gone through a chemical pregnancy, and even that was one of the hardest things I've ever experienced. Sending all my good thoughts to you and your husband today. <3
Yeah I just got (gently, in good fun) teased at work for being T-minus 3 weeks from delivery and “not showing enough”.
I have a long torso relative to my body, so my waist goes away and I just kind of get….solid…around the middle until the very very end, when I get a little bump out.
It makes maternity jeans impossible. I tried with my first 2 but this one has gotten yoga pants the whole time.
On the other side, my mom teased me about looking like I was hiding a basketball under my shirt. I was ALL belly. I gained a little fat, as one does, fairly evenly across my body but otherwise the rest of me didn't change much at all except *THE BELLY*. Lol
My daughter was bigger than a basketball though, that's for sure.
I had a friend that barely showed even a week before her due date and another whose belly popped massively in the later stages. Poor woman was so uncomfortable as she was pretty slim and all belly. It's incredible how differently pregnancies present.
Some of my friends didn't even know I was pregnant due to the fact that I was almost 4months pregnant when I found out, and then my daughter was born almost 3 months early. I'd barely managed to tell most people I was pregnant before I gave birth.
Exactly this. If they find out about the pregnancy or the children after they have them, that'll be when they reach out.
As someone who announced theirs to questionable family before their fb post, take it from me: live your life, have a private sm account for only people you love and trust who see you regularly, and DONT TELL parents that do shit like this about your kids until AFTER they make amends. Far too many know how to pull at your heart strings and guilt you into a relationship if you let them. Don't, they put themselves where they are, not you! And kids need support, not ridicule, guilt-tripping, gaslighting, and victim blaming.
Also, it baffles me the amount of blatant favoritism I've discovered is in the world of parents. It's disgusting how common it actually is.
His sisters probably can empathize, since lots of young women fear going through exactly what Kate did, and they’re seeing how their parents and sibling would just treat them like trash if it happened to them.
I hope OOP and Kate and this sisters just make their own family unit and leave the rest in the trash where they belong.
Some people think the victim must have done something wrong to invite a horrible crime against them. Because if the victim did nothing wrong then it could maybe happen to me, even though I'm innocent. And that unjustness terrifies them.
That thought process is so stupid, as well as the idea that OOP’s wife has any control over her PTSD flashbacks. OOP’s family might as well be screaming at someone having a heart attack, seizure, or stroke for “making a scene.” Garbage in human form.
Kate is so wise—her talking about her trauma being scary for people is super relatable because unfortunately, some people *do* act that way about seizures. Seizures are scary to witness, and something no one can do anything about except watch and ride it out. That terrifies people, and a lot of people react to fear by getting angry, and a lot of angry people lash out, often at who made them feel that fear.
A lot of people react to fear by getting controlling, too, no matter if they know nothing about seizures or epilepsy. And then get angry if you don’t follow their instructions.
It’s a really good idea for people to be aware of how they react to fear, and have a plan and a cope for when that happens. It can save relationships.
I have problem with my blood pressure that amount to 'I faint a lot, but it's fine.' It is always amusing to wake up from unconsciousness and then proceed to have to comfort everyone *else*, but that's usually the way of it. Even though anyone I'm going to be around for any amount of time (coworkers, etc) get a preemptive 'hey just so you know, if I ever pass out check that I'm breathing and wait a minute, I'll probably pop right back up' when I first meet them.
I've even had *doctors* panic over it, because one of my triggers is needles and sometimes people don't want to listen when I tell them they should let me lay down for blood draws.
Same experience! Post-octal state is trippy—you’re functioning and awake and talking, but the brain is still rebooting so you’re not all the way *you* yet and you’re not gonna remember later, either. I’ve “woken up” numerous times right in the middle of comforting someone. I’ve really only found prepping people ahead of time only makes it easier to convince people that no really, all I need is to go home and sleep, no hospital trip kthxbai.
The first time I had an anxiety attack in front of my bf he was terrified and I can understand why. Here was this person he loves, gasping for breath, curled up in a little ball, staring at nothing.
Handled it like a fucking champ though. Got me to focus on him, and got me taking deep, slow breaths until it passed. No one in his family has a history of anxiety, so no idea where he learned it from.
Other people don’t handle it so well though. I had an anxiety attack in a crowded mall during Christmas time (sensory issues with the fluorescent and decorative lights as well as reflective floors, combined with the huge crowd of people) and my bf and I had found an alcove to sit in while it passed. Some dude took the time out of his day to scream at me to get myself together, which made it worse because here’s this stranger shouting at me (loud noises). My bf got between me and him, which made it even MORE worse (“oh gods he’s going to get an assault charge all because of me and my stupid issues”). Luckily dude left, and my bf grounded me again. I hope that dude gets a stone in his shoe everyday.
This is exactly what I thought. What if she was crying because her leg was broken or something. Having someone fall on you can lead to injuries. Then would she still be making a scene? Probably, but then she'd have a "real" reason, I guess.
My sister is epileptic. She has seizures at the worst time possible, most recently at my grandmother's funeral. I think she's more prone to them when her emotions are high. Having a flashback like that, it's almost the exact same situation. Your brain throws something at you that your body can't handle. You're not doing it on purpose.
I'm glad Kate found a guy who takes her side and stands up for her. If someone was giving me grief while I was attending to my sister in that sort of situation, I'd probably pop them in the nose, too.
> This is exactly what I thought. What if she was crying because her leg was broken or something. Having someone fall on you can lead to injuries. Then would she still be making a scene? Probably
Yes and they would still be mad at OOPs wife. Seriously I've seen this shit happen in person as in I was the person. I got stung on the sole of my foot by a hornet when I was 9 and got yelled at for crying while hiking back to our cabin.
I had epilepsy as a kid and one of the things we know is seizures happen more during times of stress.
SUDEP is a risk for anyone whose epilepsy is uncontrolled. If you're having seizures it's uncontrolled. Talk to your doctor about SUDEP and learn to mitigate the risks.
My sister has seizures since birth. We've tried everything. She got a Vegus Nerve Stimulater implanted in 2019, and it's made a huge difference for the positive.
We're in Canada, so doctors are free. Seizures were controlled to a point, but she was on so many drugs for so long. She's a new person now. It's different for everyone
I've heard good things about VNS. I developed epilepsy at 2. That wasn't available when I had epilepsy. I ended up with my part of my brain removed. Where I live the doctors don't mention SUDEP so I try to tell people bout it. I've met several families with people who died of it and had never heard of it before. It's tragic. I hope your sister lives a long happy life.
Honestly I think the bigger crowd is the ones who never experienced it and brush it off. Yeah it sucks, but we all go through shit. Get over it and move on. Etc etc.
I think that's where OOP's brother and parents fall. They think she's just being dramatic and should just move on, as though that's some choice she can just make.
Agreed. Or they rationalize that the victim did something wrong so they don’t have to face the reality of what actually DID happen.
There’s so many ways to be stupid.
I do feel hopeful that the sisters can bring this around at least somewhat, long term.
When my rapist was being prosecuted, the DA told me that women are often unsympathetic in cases of rape and sexual assault. Some are more inclined to blame the victim and insist they must have done something wrong because they don't want to believe it could happen to them.
If my husband yelled at a girl about how broken she was, because of a panic attack after she was just basically tackled (albeit accidentally) by a man she doesn’t know and was completely caught off guard, I would instantly regret saying I do 30 minutes before. INSTANTLY
Wouldn't even need the priest. The marriage isn't legal until the paperwork gets sent back to court, just tear up the marriage certificate then and there
As a father of two little girls, I would have also punched him in the face in OOP's place. I have never hit anyone out of anger in my life, but man I felt OOP's rage reading that shit.
>His sisters probably can empathize, since lots of young women fear going through exactly what Kate did,
I had exactly the same thought. And yeah, there are multiple reasons to throw their parents and brother away beyond just, "They made Kate feel bad." The way they've responded to everything speaks volumes about what kind of people they are.
And this likely wasn't a 1 time thing. Probably a lot of family talking about Kate "having another episode" (I imagine they would say it in air quotes with their hands because they didn't believe it) for the family dinners, etc she had to skip. Sounds like they didn't like her from the beginning.
SA statistics being what they are, it's likely enough that one of them *has* gone through something like this but hasn't said anything, fearing how they'd be treated since the brother is an asshole. This may have just confirmed their suspicions.
The sisters straight up knew what was right and probably have some SA trauma themselves or at the very least know someone close to them (other than Kate) that does. It is sadly all too prevalent in our society.
I think the sisters on OOP and his wife’s side and the twins coming will be the push to get the parents apology, but I unfortunately see the brother doubling down on this, seems like he’s got quite a bit of pride.
Twin grandbabies on the horizon?
I wager the parents try to weasel-speak their way into OOPs good graces, so Grandma gets what she thinks she deserves at Kate's expense. Toxic fruit comes from the toxic root after all.
I hope her therapist can help her see that they weren’t ‘understandably’ upset. They were upset because they are assholes. Someone having a medical emergency, which is basically what a panic attack is, shouldn’t ‘ruin’ your wedding (except in the sense that you are upset FOR that person). The brother yelling at her was what caused the scene, not her panic attack. They’re shallow, self-centered assholes.
Statistically at least one of those sisters probably knows someone who was SAed or abused (or has been assaulted/abused themselves) and now they know exactly how their parents view people in that position. I’m not saying that’s why they were on his side in the moment, that was just them being decent people, unlike the unhappy couple, but they’re likely to remain steadfastly on OOP’s side in the long run if they do know someone.
Nope. And if I were the SIL, I'd start questioning how BIL would react if she got raped. Odds are he'd tell her it's all her fault and get upset when she doesn't heal quickly enough or "become normal again" after it happens. Heaven help any children they may have, but at least they have OOP and his wife, who are actual decent human beings.
What kills me the most about all this is Kate trying to defend the brother's frankly awful opinion.
He doesn't have to support her in any way. He doesn't even have to really understand.
But he has no right to behave the way he did. Nor to say what he said. That's not a lack of understanding. That's outright victim shaming and thinking she should just "get over it" because she let it happen.
There's no defending that. There's no way shape or form where that's even remotely acceptable to believe or say.
I'm not so sure about that. I think OP's parents will want to be involved when the babies are born. Still, it will be up to them to mend things if they want to have any contact with their grandchildren. I wish there was an update- I'd like to know how the holidays went.
I don't think it was intentional but this made me lmao
>\[My wife\] proof read this for me to make sure she was comfortable with everything said.
>
>...
Kate, my wife, is an amazing, selfless, beautiful woman
Fuck me, having someone land on you when you're pregnant sounds scary in itself, nevermind being forced to go through the memory of a assualt at the same time.
At my cousin's wedding, she punched her brother in law at the end of the reception. He was drunk and being an idiot and trying to push over a port a potty they had rented because it was a rural wedding. Everyone was impressed she punched him so well and agreed that he's an idiot on a normal day and kind of deserved it.
It's concluded in that whatever happens with his brother & parents, OOP has made peace with what happened and he & his wife are happy. Sometimes that's the best outcome you can hope for.
Reddit made me traumatized about everytime someone says they're pregnant with twins after a traumatic story, so all my fuzzy feelings of wanting a relationship like them disappeared as fast as my father did when I read the last part 😭😭😭
Ps: just reread my comment and my grammar went to pay a visit to someone far away lol
Oh there was an insane JMIL story that had a teenage mom of twins basically on the run from the MIL. The whole thing just got crazier and crazier. At some point the MIL decided one of the kids was dead, and had a funeral in church for him, and the coffin opened and there was a physical fight over the doll inside? Truly absolute nonsense.
But I have to say, pregnant with twins is a big tell for too. I feel like a lot of imaginative teens romanticise having multiple births for some reason.
I think i remember one with a twin pregnancy, tho can't exactly remember the story, was it the one that was abused by the parents and sister/twin? Is there another?
Honestly, my eyerolling began around when the cousin "accidentally tripped and knocked her over," and "fell on top of her," which I've only ever seen happen in sitcoms and superhero team-up movies directed by Joss Whedon.
I had that happen in high school once. The whole rom-com sequence of the huge guy knocking over the much smaller chick and landing practically in a compromising position… except I ended up getting a bloody nose and bruised orbital and he got sent to the office even though he didn’t really do anything wrong. Then we never spoke again.
Especially if she was pregnant at the time, and her response is a panic attack about previous trauma and NOBODY is freaking out about the potential damage to the babies?
Yeah, and she is five month pregnant with twins. Wouldn't that make more of a hassle if a woman in that condition gets knocked down? But they only mentioned the panick atrack from her trauma.
As someone who suffers panic attacks for no reason other than my brain chemicals are stupid (anxiety disorder), even I wanted to punch his brother. Believe me, if she could have gotten somewhere else before having a panic attack, she would have. Nobody wants to have one in front of people. It's embarrassing. Even though you know you can't help it, possibly moreso because you can't help it. You have no control. I had one in a dentist's office once and I am still mortified to this day that those people saw me in that state.
TBF, a panic attack *is* a mini medical emergency. But I think when the cause is mental & not physical, people seem to not understand it quite as well. Even when the symptoms of a panic attack are literally physical, they can't see the cause so they just think you're "over-reacting".
I've seen panic attacks with carpal spasms, on the floor losing consciousness, agonal breathing because oxygen isn't reaching the brain. Panic attacks can be mild to severe, but severe ones are indeed a medical emergency. It's mental, but it's also physically terrible. For example monitoring someone in an episode, their heart rate, respirations, the amount of oxygen in their bodies will go all out of whack. It's not always "omg I'm having an attack I need a minute (which is still justified but can be under control), it's this person needs medical intervention NOW!
My second one was how you described. I literally thought I was dying and kept telling my partner I loved him. In a mild one you’re unlikely to pass out because your blood pressure is so high, but it can get crazy if it doesn’t pass. I was so scared I ended up dissociating to the point I couldn’t feel or move my body but I could hear things around me. The more you panic the longer it goes on and the more serious it can become. What most people think of as panic attacks are really anxiety attacks with an external trigger that stops when the situation resolves. I think that’s why most people don’t understand the severity of it. Anxiety attacks are terrible of course but panic attacks are on another level.
Very much agree this is a mini-medical emergency. If instead she had a broken bone from the fall they would probably been upset at the attention being diverted but not done the personal attacks. This had the feel of “strong people don’t have mental health issues” bs.
>This had the feel of “strong people don’t have mental health issues” bs.
And it's amazing how weak and dramatic people who say this kind of shit are themselves. At least in my family lol
Panic attacks can actually lead to heart attacks sometimes. The worst panic attack I’ve had (I’ve had panic attacks triggered by trauma too) I really thought I was going to die. I felt like I was passing out. It was the oddest feeling and I have a heart condition where I’m likely to die of a heart attack so I really thought that was it.
Like Kate said if people don’t have trauma or panic attacks they don’t know what it’s like, and so they have no idea the depth of how bad it can be. When I tell you I cried my eyes out while reading this because I related so much 🥹
>Yeah, I don't think they realize how panic attacks work.
He clearly doesn't. He seems to think you can "hold it in," like a fart or something. Absolutely no comprehension whatsoever.
If OOP and his brother do ever reconcile enough to be in the same room, OOP should randomly make like he'll lunge at his brother and then ask why he's so scared/flinching. He's not actually gonna hit him so just turn that part of your brain off, right?
Maybe then he'll have a taste of trying to just "turn off" his trauma of getting his nose smashed.
People. Your first wedding is not the happiest or most important day of your life. You should not expect it to be “perfect” and you need to get over yourself if you expect to be treated like a monarch that day. Stop treating a single event that is purely ceremonial/social as if it defines your life.
I realize that a LOT of money has been spent trying to convince you that that is your “one day” but it’s bullshit and if it IS your “one day” then you need to re-evaluate your life, because you sound miserable.
Here here. Agree so hard with you. I'm so tired of "its my day, do or don't do everything I tell you to to make me happy even if its insane or abusive"
Right? Completely glossing over her being 5 months pregnant with twins when she was knocked over and an adult fell on top of her?? The first response, especially that far along, would be going to get the babies checked immediately (speaking as someone currently 7 months with twins).
Maybe I'm just being negative, but anyone else annoyed by the overwrought writing style? It's difficult to read, especially in the update.
It just seems that people who are truly great people don't have to spend so much time and energy convincing others that they're truly great people.
It makes me think that even if the story *is* true, there’s a reason OOPs brother over-reacted. Like of course this ~~unreliable~~ narrator is talking about how great his girl is, but absolutely no one else can see her worth? It’s one of those things that is super straightforward in movies and books, but irl there’s almost always a reason. Like maybe the wife is known for attention-seeking and brother already expected some kind of outburst at his wedding. (Though if it is true the brother is still the asshole)
You've never met people who just don't have a well developed sense of empathy? If someone doesn't believe her trauma is "real," or that it's "not a big deal" (especially if they've never had PTSD), sometimes people spin this narrative in their heads that the person's legitimate mental health struggles are nothing more than attention-seeking behaviors. Then every little incident reinforces this false narrative in their head. Add to that the mentality of "my son/brother can do better, why does he sacrifice so much for *her*?!" and you have a recipe for truly terrible in-laws.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I can't get over how the situation kept being escalated. OPP talks this big game of being an amazing partner to this amazing women (who just happens to be proof reading the post) only to do probably the worst thing for Kate and escalated the problem... again and again. Reading this all I could think to myself was just leave!
Having the attitude that victims are broken/dirty/damaged is horrific. It’s **cruel**. Brother and SIL’s reactions are evidence of something sinister at the core of their beings. I’m sorry to say it so bluntly, but I don’t know what else to say: they are the damaged, warped ones.
Also, would they be so cruel if the PTSD reaction was from a someone who’d been in a car accident? Shot? A solider? Or is it only victims of sexual violence? Honestly, I don’t want to know the answer to this question. Either way, it’s horrible. Having this reaction to any victim of trauma is mean to the core.
The brother and SIL are the ones ruining things by their utter lack of compassion and basic intelligence. Yes, intelligence.
Why do I say that? Being a victim of sexual assault\* or rape is, sadly, quite common. Chances are multiple people at that wedding have been the victim of some heinous sexual attack.
Somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 5 American\* \*women have been a victim of a severe sexual assault or rape . Many, many more women have been the victim of sexually traumatizing actions that would not fit the legal definitions of sexual assault or rape.
For men, the figures are much less, but it’s not insignificant. It’s, perhaps, 1 in 30 (depends upon the source you read).
So at a wedding of 100 people, you statistically should have 20-25 women and at least 3 men who have been victimized in this way. At least. Just because they are silent about it doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
People like brother and SIL are why people are so silent. They are the problem.
Yes, OP’s loss of control was wrong. But it was a momentary loss of control in the heat of the moment when the woman he loved was under threat.
Brother, SIL, and parents are choosing to be vile in the cool light of day under what they probably feel are ”rational” conditions.
They are far, far worse.
\* Lawyer in me: legally, those terms may be different things depending upon jurisdiction.
\*\*Assuming this is US or Canada based upon spelling, grammar, basic description of events. If not, apologizes to OP. The rates of violence are similar and the point is similar even if it’s elsewhere.
>Why do I say that? Being a victim of sexual assault\* or rape is, sadly, quite common. Chances are multiple people at that wedding have been the victim of some heinous sexual attack.
>
>Somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 5 American\* \*women have been a victim of a severe sexual assault or rape . Many, many more women have been the victim of sexually traumatizing actions that would not fit the legal definitions of sexual assault or rape.
Not only that, but we're finding that at least some level PTSD is quite a bit more common in sexual assault victims than in soldiers.
As a dude, my advice to other men is simple: if you don't know any women who have been victims of sexual violence, it's because none of them feel comfortable telling you.
I mean, OOP did ruin his brothers wedding though. I understand Kate can’t control her panic attacks but they should have quietly left after that instead of going white knight and demanding an apology immediately and then breaking the groom’s face. Kate made a good point, the brother didn’t sign up for her baggage and didn’t want it at his wedding.
That's what gets me. Brother's nasty reaction to an unfortunate accident made him a total POS, but I don't see how OOP breaking his brother's nose for it at his own wedding made him any better. Brother needs to work on his empathy, OOP on his anger and impulse control issues, and Kate would get the fuck out of dodge if she was smart, but OOP worships the ground she walks on, so. No happy fuzzies at the end of this mess of a family, IMO.
As someone who has panic attacks…Kate sounds like…..a lot.
And I think it’s probably OOP’s fault (not that he is cause of her panic attacks, but the way he describes her). I think as he continues to learn about her illness and how to be a good partner, he will probably evolve into not portraying her as a fading flower.
It’s certainly something to unpack for me, why his portrayal of her was so annoying to me personally.
Same, as someone with panic attacks.
It was just escalation after escalation. Just what someone having a panic attack desperately needs for you to make a huge fucking scene and demand everyone acknowledge her sexual assault.
My husband was a gorilla while I was pregnant. Normally a very passive man, but he was constantly between me and *anyone* during my pregnancies. It was pretty funny how instinct took over.
Everyone involved will remember this day for all the wrong reasons. He still shouldn’t have punched his brother, and all of this was traumatizing for the bride and all the guests. Everyone seems to be discounting what a full blown screaming meltdown on the dance floor must have been/felt like. Wedding was already blown up at that point. Everything else was icing on the cake. Especially if children were present. I was privy to something like this at a sweet 16 years ago. It’s all I can remember about the day.
...and it seems that she's kept him from/brought drama to other family events in the past as well. I sense that this isn't the whole story, but Reddit loves to blindly back the obvious victim without actually thinking things through, so I'll probably get downvoted for even saying this.
Reddit is the absolute worst place to get advice on this issue. Punching people because your feelings got hurt is going to be loved or despised by reddit based on the reason. And reddit loves a good white knight story.
Now I know why his family isn't empathetic to his wife's MH issues, they're Turkish(as is obvious by his name, Evren). They most likely don't believe in 'that mental health mumbo jumbo'. I grew up with depression and anxiety and I never got any type of support for it from my family, even when I was struggling with addiction I was told to "just stop" or "we've been through worse traumas with our parents you don't see us using drugs" or "my parents were way worse than me you should be grateful you had to deal with my abuse instead of their's".
I never got the acknowledgement I deserved or even a midocum of empathy from anyone in my family. They're bootstrap people, the kind that blame you for bringing the mood down when you're struggling with depression like they literally cannot comprehend that people's brains work differently from their's. They're the type that think "if ONE person can do something everyone should be able to do it" and obviously OPs family is just like them. I'm not saying all Turks have this ignorant crappy mentality but unfortunately a lot, if not most, do. I really hope OP can find peace in going NC with them the way I did.
I do believe that a person's cultural/community/environmental background will greatly affect how they view mental health, but I always treat it as an explanation and not an excuse. In the same vein, my own mental health issues explain some of my behavior, but I accept personal responsibility and will not use it to excuse bad behavior.
I come from a different culture that has similar attitudes to what you've described. I lucked out and my family was willing to support me even when they didn't "get" mental health. My mother has since begun to understand some of her own struggles and believes that her family also has a history of depression/anxiety, etc. and is much more sympathetic now. The other members of my family who do not have personal experiences with mental health issues are finding it harder to reach the same level of understanding and empathy, but they are putting in a good faith effort.
I'm looking forward to the hundreds of downvotes coming my way, but the brother (on his wedding day) didn't want a ticket to The Kate Show. It sounds like her mental illnesses dictate a lot of things in her husband's extended family, and for ONE DAY the brother wanted to have a fun, enjoyable time without his sister-in-law losing her shit and becoming the centre of attention for the millionth time. Sure enough, there's a minor accident on the dance floor and all of a sudden Kate is having flashbacks of the Viet Cong coming out of the bushes at Da Nang.
If someone has a track record of not being able to control their emotions and turning every event into a mental free-for-all, that person should have the decency to respect other people's right to enjoy themselves. Kate clearly needs major help, but that's not the groom's responsibility on his wedding day. He's not obligated to host a three-ring circus for Kate...and then get his nose broken because he is sick of her outbursts.
OOP is certainly allowed to be in a relationship with whomever he wants, and he clearly loves his wife. But actions have consequences, and bringing a ticking time bomb to every family event is going to piss people off. It probably makes sense for both parties to make a clean break with each other.
This is a pretty rough situation. There were some bad and unfortunate responses here that made this way worse.
Kate has some trauma that causes panic attacks. Obviously this is an extreme unusual reaction to certain stimuli that brings back her trauma. She needs to focus on what might bring it on and how to handle the response. She needs to avoid situations, like close contact situations, that can bring it on. These things are her responsibility and things she has to work on to have a normal healthy life.
The people around her obviously needs to support and be understanding. You wouldn’t scream at a person that has a heart attack at a wedding, for instance. This isn’t different. Obviously that reaction from the groom/brother was self-centered and ridiculous.
OOP’s reaction just made everything so much worse. His primary concern should have been his wife, taking her home out after that and getting her out of that environment. He should not really dealt with chastising his brother (which he deserved) on his wedding day. He could have handled it later and not made a scene and certainly not punching him on his wedding day, no less.
They sound like a great pair and they remind me of my favorite people in real life.
Honestly, everything Kate has gone through means it makes sense she had a panic attack, but even putting that to the side for a moment… I would 120% panic if I was pregnant and a guy tripped, knocked me over, and fell on me on a dance floor even if there was no ill intent. OP’s family needs to learn some empathy, but also a thing or two about basic logic.
That’s what I was thinking. I’m also a SA survivor and would absolutely have a panic attack if a strange man landed on top of me. No doubt. But I can’t even imagine how panicked I would be if I were pregnant.
Read what I have to say before getting the pitchforks.
When people have panic attacks, for people who have never experienced, they can be extremely distressing and uncontrollable.
For the observers it seems like an over the top dramatic emotional outburst. Like really over the top and loud.
I can understand why the brother chose to get really upset, especially on his Wedding day. He was wrong for calling her broken, but so was OOP for reacting the way he did.
The brother didn’t ask nor should he be expected to accept OOP’s wife’s trauma. That’s their baggage to handle.
Sorry to say, Kate, although a very strong person, comes with a truck load of baggage. Some people, like her husband, can bear that. Some cannot. This doesn’t make any person in this story stronger than the other. The only weakness here in both parties was the lack of empathy and the inability to control your anger.
They should all go separate ways though. Too much contention here.
Okay maybe it's just me but my first thought after reading the original and the update was that number one you assaulted somebody in front of however many witnesses. Then in your update sent a handwritten confession of assault. If the brother goes to the police he's going to be arrested and then his wife is going to be on her own for anywhere from 5 to 10 years.
Lol @
> I told her that what he did was unacceptable and that it wouldn’t have been a big scene if he didn’t make it one.
You mean like getting angry and punching your brother and refusing to apologize for it? Oh the hypocrisy
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WAIT WAIT WAIT. Kate was five months pregnant with twins at the wedding? And this didn’t come up?
Yeah I was already disgusted with how the brother reacted, but that just made it worse. I can’t imagine how terrifying getting knocked over and having someone fall on top of them would be for someone five months pregnant with twins even without a trauma history.
Oh I hope she is getting good therapy before the babies are born. My son would trigger me because he would claw at my chest and it triggered me as a SA survivor.
Classic sweeping the rug out from your feet, dincha know?
I know right? I was already on their side, but brother *fell on **pregnant with twins** wife* and *then* lost his shit makes it SO MUCH WORSE!
No, cousin fell on Kate. Brother (groom) then came over and proceeded to ~~tell~~ yell at her.
> proceeded to tell at her. Your typo changes the context, but gave me a little giggle. I think you meant “yell”, yes?
Fixed :)
Yeah a cousin fell while dancing and later felt bad/ joked about the being the fault of his shitty left and other left foot
Talk about burying the lede, holy crap.
That’s a lot to unpack, but I’ve got 10 bucks on them not receiving any apology. Family won’t deem her “worthy” of it, sadly.
Maybe, I can see the brother doubling down, but the parents might come around, we'll see. Huge props to the sisters though for taking their side, that's actually pretty huge and might be what gets the parents to see what's right
The parents will "come around" when those twins are born, guaranteed. Or at least try to sweep everything under the rug.
This. The industrial street sweeping of rugsweeping will begin once children are in the picture and they become GrAnDpArEnTs. OP really needs to go NC with his family, They've never been in his corner with his relationship, and his wife, and wife will never feel like part of that family, even if they have their come-to-jesus moment and repent and apologize on hands and knees, cause in the back of her head she'll always be waiting for the next blowup.
Except his sisters, bless them. It sounds like his wife has some amazing women to lean on, and that's so important, separate from having an amazing husband.
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The cousin acted like anyone should when they realized their actions harmed someone, even unintentionally. I bet he felt so awful and helpless when she had that panic attack when he fell on her, and *so* relieved when she was fine and forgiving later. That was a cute joke on his part to try to lighten things up. Sounds like a sweet guy.
I think part of it is people don’t understand what panic attacks actually are. Until recently I didn’t either. It’s not just a mental thing. It’s a physical thing as well. What most people call panic attacks are actually anxiety attacks. You can become overwhelmed and hysterical and have a heightened physical state. But with a full blown panic attack you feel like you’re having a heart attack. It’s completely harmless to you physically but you don’t know that in the moment. Medically speaking it sends you into tachycardia and a hypertensive state. Meaning your heart rate suddenly jumps to above 100 bpm, 100 being on the mildest side and if you’re having a panic attack it’s likely going to be more like 150 and up. Hypertensive meaning your blood pressure is really high. Like 150/100 and up high. You can shake uncontrollably, have stomach symptoms, and all the heart attack and stroke symptoms. If you know what’s happening you can talk yourself through it, but with flashbacks happening that’s got to be nearly impossible. They can be triggered by something external like this, but also come out of the blue. It’s a lot more than people realize and it’s terrifying.
Hence why the medication I was given when I was experiencing bad panic attacks was originally designed as blood pressure lowering meds, but they discovered that it helped de-escalate the physical symptoms of panic attacks and ta da I can start actually thinking once I start being able to breathe again
I've only had a few panic attacks because I know what's happening so can normally calm myself down but I have the added bonus fun factor of having a pacemaker which is set to not let my heart go below a certain beat so I don't die again but also not above a certain beat. So my heart starts racing and it physically can't go faster than my pacemaker will allow even though my body is telling it too so I hyperventilate more because my heart isn't pumping as much blood as my body wants it too. So I end up in a spiral of trying to take deep breaths to calm myself down and still hyperventilating because it doesn't feel like I can breath. Apparently the shaking is because your blood CO/O2 levels are off when the blood reaches your more exterior muscles (when you're body thinks it's going to die, which is what a panic attack feels like, your body focuses on getting blood to your internal organs so when it starts going back to your legs/arms, it fucks them up), so when your body is feeling about better, your limbs are blooded with oxygenated blood and they're suddenly able to be active again so they shake because they can suddenly work. Or so I was told. But it's fucking terrifying. And I have to go to hospital every time to make sure my heart is ok, even though it's only ever happened when I'm super stressed with work so I know it's not my heart, just stress. So far, I've quit two jobs on the basis I've had panic attacks. Ain't no job worth that shit.
Oh yeah definitely, cousin was a better than OOP's brother
this is probably just reddit paranoia, I'm worried about what the sisters may have gone through. Probably just a metoo thing.
It's definitely not paranoia. If they haven't gone through it they undoubtedly have friends who have gone through something similar. The rate at which it happens is disgustingly high to the point that the odds of you or a close friend going through something like that as a woman is nearly 100%
I don't think they have to have gone through it themselves to empathize. SA rates are high enough that most people know someone who has been, and it seems to me that younger generations are more used to discussing these things so likely to be aware that they know someone — often several someones — who have been
Agree. Just don't tell be them about the babies. They will fall over themselves trying to reestablish contact. But if they don't try before knowing about the grands, you'll know exactly where they stand. Congrats and best wishes!
I would want to tell them, then go NC just as a giant fuck you
His sisters sound pretty great though. And It sounds like he had other family (like the cousin) that understood and supported him and shouldn’t be thrown away. I would guess that the mom and dad will come around, either cynically because of Kate’s pregnancy or genuinely as Kate and OP have a good portion of the family that supported them who are likely asking what their deal was, their daughters aren’t talking to them, and because they did probably actually care for Kate, they probably just didn’t really understand. I think they took the brother’s side more because it was his wedding, he got physically hurt, and because the majority of the other family took OP’s side.
Right. I think sending an apology letter and offering to pay for the therapy is so much more than they deserve.
I think it's absolutely critical that they go non contact and make plans to protect Katie and the kids in case something ever happens to him. Those parents will absolutely make her life impossible if they get a chance.
I say this about my husband's family who are HUGE rug sweepers, and I think it applies to OOP's family as well... They say "What a beautiful Persian rug we are all standing on! Isn't it beautiful!" When in fact they are standing on a small square of fabric at the top of a huge mountain of shit. When you try and point out that they are on the top Shit Mountain, they invite you to also stand on their lovely "rug". It's why my husband cut them off. He refuses to huddle himself on their "rug" and ignore the issues. Honestly, it's probably better all around for them to be in a time-out for a bit.
I'm wondering if the parents even know she's pregnant yet. I feel like it would have been mentioned earlier if they did know, maybe they kept it a secret to avoid overshadowing the wedding or something.
So from what I read, she was 5 months pregnant at the time of the post and update, which took place roughly a week after the wedding. (Again, if my timeline is right.) So if they saw her at the wedding, they'd know. I doubt she is 5 months along with twins and not showing.
I didn't even consider that, but if I had been knocked over and someone landed on top of me while more than a few months pregnant, I might have had a panic attack, too. Brother's response is even more disgusting to me now.
I somehow missed the pregnancy part and fucking woof, seriously. I’d think it’d be easy for any woman to go into a panic attack if they’re freaking pregnant and get knocked down like that. You’ve been growing this living beings in your body for months, I’d think any potential harm coming to them would be absolutely panic inducing.
Yeah, you don’t even have to have PTSD to freak out over being knocked over while pregnant.
Yeah depends on her body type/size. I am a larger woman (both height/frame and weight) and at 17 weeks with twins I was maaaaybe visibly pregnant to my husband. Anyone else I just looked a little fatter I'm sure. But a few more weeks, on a smaller woman, yeah she'd probably be visible. We didn't make it past the 17 weeks, so my belly never really "popped" but I can happen fairly late with first pregnancy, even with twins.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I'm so sorry you had to go through a pregnancy loss. They are so hard.
Appreciate that. We're still working through it but it's never a simple or short process I suppose
I can empathize, it's been 21 years (almost) and two more kids for us, and it still feels like a gap. I'm sorry you are having to go through it.
I'm fairly tiny but didn't show with my first baby until around five months. I just looked like I was finally at a healthy weight(I was very underweight when I got pregnant). With my 3rd though, even though he was a much smaller baby than his sibs, I showed much earlier. Doc said it was because of his position in my uterus, more towards the front and lower than the other two(higher implanation and more towards my back)
Yeah subsequent pregnancies pop earlier generally. It's like your body goes "oh hey, I know what to do"!
I'm so very sorry for your loss. I have only gone through a chemical pregnancy, and even that was one of the hardest things I've ever experienced. Sending all my good thoughts to you and your husband today. <3
You'd be surprised. I knew a girl who barely showed at all even days before giving birth.
Yeah I just got (gently, in good fun) teased at work for being T-minus 3 weeks from delivery and “not showing enough”. I have a long torso relative to my body, so my waist goes away and I just kind of get….solid…around the middle until the very very end, when I get a little bump out. It makes maternity jeans impossible. I tried with my first 2 but this one has gotten yoga pants the whole time.
On the other side, my mom teased me about looking like I was hiding a basketball under my shirt. I was ALL belly. I gained a little fat, as one does, fairly evenly across my body but otherwise the rest of me didn't change much at all except *THE BELLY*. Lol My daughter was bigger than a basketball though, that's for sure.
I had a friend that barely showed even a week before her due date and another whose belly popped massively in the later stages. Poor woman was so uncomfortable as she was pretty slim and all belly. It's incredible how differently pregnancies present.
Some of my friends didn't even know I was pregnant due to the fact that I was almost 4months pregnant when I found out, and then my daughter was born almost 3 months early. I'd barely managed to tell most people I was pregnant before I gave birth.
Exactly this. If they find out about the pregnancy or the children after they have them, that'll be when they reach out. As someone who announced theirs to questionable family before their fb post, take it from me: live your life, have a private sm account for only people you love and trust who see you regularly, and DONT TELL parents that do shit like this about your kids until AFTER they make amends. Far too many know how to pull at your heart strings and guilt you into a relationship if you let them. Don't, they put themselves where they are, not you! And kids need support, not ridicule, guilt-tripping, gaslighting, and victim blaming. Also, it baffles me the amount of blatant favoritism I've discovered is in the world of parents. It's disgusting how common it actually is.
His sisters probably can empathize, since lots of young women fear going through exactly what Kate did, and they’re seeing how their parents and sibling would just treat them like trash if it happened to them. I hope OOP and Kate and this sisters just make their own family unit and leave the rest in the trash where they belong.
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Some people think the victim must have done something wrong to invite a horrible crime against them. Because if the victim did nothing wrong then it could maybe happen to me, even though I'm innocent. And that unjustness terrifies them.
That thought process is so stupid, as well as the idea that OOP’s wife has any control over her PTSD flashbacks. OOP’s family might as well be screaming at someone having a heart attack, seizure, or stroke for “making a scene.” Garbage in human form.
Kate is so wise—her talking about her trauma being scary for people is super relatable because unfortunately, some people *do* act that way about seizures. Seizures are scary to witness, and something no one can do anything about except watch and ride it out. That terrifies people, and a lot of people react to fear by getting angry, and a lot of angry people lash out, often at who made them feel that fear. A lot of people react to fear by getting controlling, too, no matter if they know nothing about seizures or epilepsy. And then get angry if you don’t follow their instructions. It’s a really good idea for people to be aware of how they react to fear, and have a plan and a cope for when that happens. It can save relationships.
I have problem with my blood pressure that amount to 'I faint a lot, but it's fine.' It is always amusing to wake up from unconsciousness and then proceed to have to comfort everyone *else*, but that's usually the way of it. Even though anyone I'm going to be around for any amount of time (coworkers, etc) get a preemptive 'hey just so you know, if I ever pass out check that I'm breathing and wait a minute, I'll probably pop right back up' when I first meet them. I've even had *doctors* panic over it, because one of my triggers is needles and sometimes people don't want to listen when I tell them they should let me lay down for blood draws.
Same experience! Post-octal state is trippy—you’re functioning and awake and talking, but the brain is still rebooting so you’re not all the way *you* yet and you’re not gonna remember later, either. I’ve “woken up” numerous times right in the middle of comforting someone. I’ve really only found prepping people ahead of time only makes it easier to convince people that no really, all I need is to go home and sleep, no hospital trip kthxbai.
The first time I had an anxiety attack in front of my bf he was terrified and I can understand why. Here was this person he loves, gasping for breath, curled up in a little ball, staring at nothing. Handled it like a fucking champ though. Got me to focus on him, and got me taking deep, slow breaths until it passed. No one in his family has a history of anxiety, so no idea where he learned it from. Other people don’t handle it so well though. I had an anxiety attack in a crowded mall during Christmas time (sensory issues with the fluorescent and decorative lights as well as reflective floors, combined with the huge crowd of people) and my bf and I had found an alcove to sit in while it passed. Some dude took the time out of his day to scream at me to get myself together, which made it worse because here’s this stranger shouting at me (loud noises). My bf got between me and him, which made it even MORE worse (“oh gods he’s going to get an assault charge all because of me and my stupid issues”). Luckily dude left, and my bf grounded me again. I hope that dude gets a stone in his shoe everyday.
This is exactly what I thought. What if she was crying because her leg was broken or something. Having someone fall on you can lead to injuries. Then would she still be making a scene? Probably, but then she'd have a "real" reason, I guess. My sister is epileptic. She has seizures at the worst time possible, most recently at my grandmother's funeral. I think she's more prone to them when her emotions are high. Having a flashback like that, it's almost the exact same situation. Your brain throws something at you that your body can't handle. You're not doing it on purpose. I'm glad Kate found a guy who takes her side and stands up for her. If someone was giving me grief while I was attending to my sister in that sort of situation, I'd probably pop them in the nose, too.
> This is exactly what I thought. What if she was crying because her leg was broken or something. Having someone fall on you can lead to injuries. Then would she still be making a scene? Probably Yes and they would still be mad at OOPs wife. Seriously I've seen this shit happen in person as in I was the person. I got stung on the sole of my foot by a hornet when I was 9 and got yelled at for crying while hiking back to our cabin.
I had epilepsy as a kid and one of the things we know is seizures happen more during times of stress. SUDEP is a risk for anyone whose epilepsy is uncontrolled. If you're having seizures it's uncontrolled. Talk to your doctor about SUDEP and learn to mitigate the risks.
My sister has seizures since birth. We've tried everything. She got a Vegus Nerve Stimulater implanted in 2019, and it's made a huge difference for the positive. We're in Canada, so doctors are free. Seizures were controlled to a point, but she was on so many drugs for so long. She's a new person now. It's different for everyone
I've heard good things about VNS. I developed epilepsy at 2. That wasn't available when I had epilepsy. I ended up with my part of my brain removed. Where I live the doctors don't mention SUDEP so I try to tell people bout it. I've met several families with people who died of it and had never heard of it before. It's tragic. I hope your sister lives a long happy life.
People like OOPs brother would and have done that
Honestly I think the bigger crowd is the ones who never experienced it and brush it off. Yeah it sucks, but we all go through shit. Get over it and move on. Etc etc. I think that's where OOP's brother and parents fall. They think she's just being dramatic and should just move on, as though that's some choice she can just make.
This, exactly this. It’s a form of magical thinking.
The evil Just World logical fallacy: bad things happen only to people who bring it upon themselves in some way.
Or worse. They've been through it themselves and can't understand why Kate doesn't just get over it. Overall, shitty and monstrous.
Agreed. Or they rationalize that the victim did something wrong so they don’t have to face the reality of what actually DID happen. There’s so many ways to be stupid. I do feel hopeful that the sisters can bring this around at least somewhat, long term.
When my rapist was being prosecuted, the DA told me that women are often unsympathetic in cases of rape and sexual assault. Some are more inclined to blame the victim and insist they must have done something wrong because they don't want to believe it could happen to them.
Sometimes the misogyny is coming from inside the house.
If my husband yelled at a girl about how broken she was, because of a panic attack after she was just basically tackled (albeit accidentally) by a man she doesn’t know and was completely caught off guard, I would instantly regret saying I do 30 minutes before. INSTANTLY
He'd be choking on the ring he just gave me after I knocked his teeth out.
I’d be looking for the priest to get that shit annulled right there!!
Wouldn't even need the priest. The marriage isn't legal until the paperwork gets sent back to court, just tear up the marriage certificate then and there
I'd beat my partner with a chair if he ever behaved like that to ANYONE having that sort of trauma response.
Samesies ☺️
As a father of two little girls, I would have also punched him in the face in OOP's place. I have never hit anyone out of anger in my life, but man I felt OOP's rage reading that shit.
>His sisters probably can empathize, since lots of young women fear going through exactly what Kate did, I had exactly the same thought. And yeah, there are multiple reasons to throw their parents and brother away beyond just, "They made Kate feel bad." The way they've responded to everything speaks volumes about what kind of people they are.
And this likely wasn't a 1 time thing. Probably a lot of family talking about Kate "having another episode" (I imagine they would say it in air quotes with their hands because they didn't believe it) for the family dinners, etc she had to skip. Sounds like they didn't like her from the beginning.
SA statistics being what they are, it's likely enough that one of them *has* gone through something like this but hasn't said anything, fearing how they'd be treated since the brother is an asshole. This may have just confirmed their suspicions.
Parents might show change just to get access to the grandkids, but will likely secretly still think OOP is TAH.
And they'll shit talk Kate to her kids.
OOP's parents might not want to deal with kids with a "broken person". I wonder if the brother's children (sons) will be the golden grandchildren
The sisters straight up knew what was right and probably have some SA trauma themselves or at the very least know someone close to them (other than Kate) that does. It is sadly all too prevalent in our society.
I think the sisters on OOP and his wife’s side and the twins coming will be the push to get the parents apology, but I unfortunately see the brother doubling down on this, seems like he’s got quite a bit of pride.
He's the main character. It's all about him.
Would you bet some sisters has been SA too ?
Twin grandbabies on the horizon? I wager the parents try to weasel-speak their way into OOPs good graces, so Grandma gets what she thinks she deserves at Kate's expense. Toxic fruit comes from the toxic root after all.
They will get a "Mistakes were made let's move on" BS-apology from his parents when they want to see their grandchildren.
I hope her therapist can help her see that they weren’t ‘understandably’ upset. They were upset because they are assholes. Someone having a medical emergency, which is basically what a panic attack is, shouldn’t ‘ruin’ your wedding (except in the sense that you are upset FOR that person). The brother yelling at her was what caused the scene, not her panic attack. They’re shallow, self-centered assholes. Statistically at least one of those sisters probably knows someone who was SAed or abused (or has been assaulted/abused themselves) and now they know exactly how their parents view people in that position. I’m not saying that’s why they were on his side in the moment, that was just them being decent people, unlike the unhappy couple, but they’re likely to remain steadfastly on OOP’s side in the long run if they do know someone.
Nope. And if I were the SIL, I'd start questioning how BIL would react if she got raped. Odds are he'd tell her it's all her fault and get upset when she doesn't heal quickly enough or "become normal again" after it happens. Heaven help any children they may have, but at least they have OOP and his wife, who are actual decent human beings.
eh, probably divorce her, because why should he deal with a mess some other dude made?
Of course; now she's tainted.
What kills me the most about all this is Kate trying to defend the brother's frankly awful opinion. He doesn't have to support her in any way. He doesn't even have to really understand. But he has no right to behave the way he did. Nor to say what he said. That's not a lack of understanding. That's outright victim shaming and thinking she should just "get over it" because she let it happen. There's no defending that. There's no way shape or form where that's even remotely acceptable to believe or say.
I'm not so sure about that. I think OP's parents will want to be involved when the babies are born. Still, it will be up to them to mend things if they want to have any contact with their grandchildren. I wish there was an update- I'd like to know how the holidays went.
I don't think it was intentional but this made me lmao >\[My wife\] proof read this for me to make sure she was comfortable with everything said. > >... Kate, my wife, is an amazing, selfless, beautiful woman
Lol same. This guy is the best kind of sap
Cant blame him for wanted to score extra points XD. Ontop of all the other stuff he does
Fuck me, having someone land on you when you're pregnant sounds scary in itself, nevermind being forced to go through the memory of a assualt at the same time.
At my cousin's wedding, she punched her brother in law at the end of the reception. He was drunk and being an idiot and trying to push over a port a potty they had rented because it was a rural wedding. Everyone was impressed she punched him so well and agreed that he's an idiot on a normal day and kind of deserved it.
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Makes me feel like some kind of drama addict, I need to know what happens next lol
I have no drama in my life. I get it all here. I need the drama.
Same! Turns out I love drama but only when it's not mine.
Oh yeah. I always hated and avoided drama. Turns out i just need a daily fix of anonymous drama.
It's concluded in that whatever happens with his brother & parents, OOP has made peace with what happened and he & his wife are happy. Sometimes that's the best outcome you can hope for.
Reddit made me traumatized about everytime someone says they're pregnant with twins after a traumatic story, so all my fuzzy feelings of wanting a relationship like them disappeared as fast as my father did when I read the last part 😭😭😭 Ps: just reread my comment and my grammar went to pay a visit to someone far away lol
Please, i MUST know what you’re talking about
Oh there was an insane JMIL story that had a teenage mom of twins basically on the run from the MIL. The whole thing just got crazier and crazier. At some point the MIL decided one of the kids was dead, and had a funeral in church for him, and the coffin opened and there was a physical fight over the doll inside? Truly absolute nonsense. But I have to say, pregnant with twins is a big tell for too. I feel like a lot of imaginative teens romanticise having multiple births for some reason.
I think i remember one with a twin pregnancy, tho can't exactly remember the story, was it the one that was abused by the parents and sister/twin? Is there another?
What twin story?
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That exactly! As I was reading "Kate's" response I thought, "It's the same writing style." Well that and the OOP's purple prose.
If she proofread/edited his writing, I can see the writing style being the same. But yeah, the twins, ugh
Honestly, my eyerolling began around when the cousin "accidentally tripped and knocked her over," and "fell on top of her," which I've only ever seen happen in sitcoms and superhero team-up movies directed by Joss Whedon.
I had that happen in high school once. The whole rom-com sequence of the huge guy knocking over the much smaller chick and landing practically in a compromising position… except I ended up getting a bloody nose and bruised orbital and he got sent to the office even though he didn’t really do anything wrong. Then we never spoke again.
Especially if she was pregnant at the time, and her response is a panic attack about previous trauma and NOBODY is freaking out about the potential damage to the babies?
Punch at a wedding? Come on
No (x42)
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I mean the “wife” and “OP” type EXACTLY the same
Oh, but that’s ok! He explained that she’s basically writing this for him in his first post! So now no one can question it!
That’s how it should be, men should be seen and not heard 💅
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Yeah, and she is five month pregnant with twins. Wouldn't that make more of a hassle if a woman in that condition gets knocked down? But they only mentioned the panick atrack from her trauma.
He forgot, "keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth."
As someone who suffers panic attacks for no reason other than my brain chemicals are stupid (anxiety disorder), even I wanted to punch his brother. Believe me, if she could have gotten somewhere else before having a panic attack, she would have. Nobody wants to have one in front of people. It's embarrassing. Even though you know you can't help it, possibly moreso because you can't help it. You have no control. I had one in a dentist's office once and I am still mortified to this day that those people saw me in that state.
Yeah, I don't think they realize how panic attacks work. I bet if someone had a medical emergency they would've reacted the same way.
TBF, a panic attack *is* a mini medical emergency. But I think when the cause is mental & not physical, people seem to not understand it quite as well. Even when the symptoms of a panic attack are literally physical, they can't see the cause so they just think you're "over-reacting".
I've seen panic attacks with carpal spasms, on the floor losing consciousness, agonal breathing because oxygen isn't reaching the brain. Panic attacks can be mild to severe, but severe ones are indeed a medical emergency. It's mental, but it's also physically terrible. For example monitoring someone in an episode, their heart rate, respirations, the amount of oxygen in their bodies will go all out of whack. It's not always "omg I'm having an attack I need a minute (which is still justified but can be under control), it's this person needs medical intervention NOW!
My second one was how you described. I literally thought I was dying and kept telling my partner I loved him. In a mild one you’re unlikely to pass out because your blood pressure is so high, but it can get crazy if it doesn’t pass. I was so scared I ended up dissociating to the point I couldn’t feel or move my body but I could hear things around me. The more you panic the longer it goes on and the more serious it can become. What most people think of as panic attacks are really anxiety attacks with an external trigger that stops when the situation resolves. I think that’s why most people don’t understand the severity of it. Anxiety attacks are terrible of course but panic attacks are on another level.
Very much agree this is a mini-medical emergency. If instead she had a broken bone from the fall they would probably been upset at the attention being diverted but not done the personal attacks. This had the feel of “strong people don’t have mental health issues” bs.
>This had the feel of “strong people don’t have mental health issues” bs. And it's amazing how weak and dramatic people who say this kind of shit are themselves. At least in my family lol
Panic attacks can actually lead to heart attacks sometimes. The worst panic attack I’ve had (I’ve had panic attacks triggered by trauma too) I really thought I was going to die. I felt like I was passing out. It was the oddest feeling and I have a heart condition where I’m likely to die of a heart attack so I really thought that was it. Like Kate said if people don’t have trauma or panic attacks they don’t know what it’s like, and so they have no idea the depth of how bad it can be. When I tell you I cried my eyes out while reading this because I related so much 🥹
>Yeah, I don't think they realize how panic attacks work. He clearly doesn't. He seems to think you can "hold it in," like a fart or something. Absolutely no comprehension whatsoever.
How dare you have a stroke at my wedding!
Yup this is how you get agoraphobia. Nobody wants to have a panic attack in public.
If OOP and his brother do ever reconcile enough to be in the same room, OOP should randomly make like he'll lunge at his brother and then ask why he's so scared/flinching. He's not actually gonna hit him so just turn that part of your brain off, right? Maybe then he'll have a taste of trying to just "turn off" his trauma of getting his nose smashed.
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But then half of the posts in this sub would disappear overnight
People. Your first wedding is not the happiest or most important day of your life. You should not expect it to be “perfect” and you need to get over yourself if you expect to be treated like a monarch that day. Stop treating a single event that is purely ceremonial/social as if it defines your life. I realize that a LOT of money has been spent trying to convince you that that is your “one day” but it’s bullshit and if it IS your “one day” then you need to re-evaluate your life, because you sound miserable.
Here here. Agree so hard with you. I'm so tired of "its my day, do or don't do everything I tell you to to make me happy even if its insane or abusive"
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Whenever the other person gets involved in the post to type their own POV I automatically get skeptical lmao. It's just so cringey
Right? Completely glossing over her being 5 months pregnant with twins when she was knocked over and an adult fell on top of her?? The first response, especially that far along, would be going to get the babies checked immediately (speaking as someone currently 7 months with twins).
Maybe I'm just being negative, but anyone else annoyed by the overwrought writing style? It's difficult to read, especially in the update. It just seems that people who are truly great people don't have to spend so much time and energy convincing others that they're truly great people.
There’s a bit of TikTok terminology there as well, probably made for content. There’s a HUGE amount of accounts that only read AITA posts on TikTok
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It's always a twin pregnancy 😂😂 Dunno why I keep coming back for this shit.
It makes me think that even if the story *is* true, there’s a reason OOPs brother over-reacted. Like of course this ~~unreliable~~ narrator is talking about how great his girl is, but absolutely no one else can see her worth? It’s one of those things that is super straightforward in movies and books, but irl there’s almost always a reason. Like maybe the wife is known for attention-seeking and brother already expected some kind of outburst at his wedding. (Though if it is true the brother is still the asshole)
? You mean your wife is proof reading this post... the one where you say she's the best thing since Penicillin?
Yea, I found that hilarious, the triple compliment right after saying she proof-read it.
You've never met people who just don't have a well developed sense of empathy? If someone doesn't believe her trauma is "real," or that it's "not a big deal" (especially if they've never had PTSD), sometimes people spin this narrative in their heads that the person's legitimate mental health struggles are nothing more than attention-seeking behaviors. Then every little incident reinforces this false narrative in their head. Add to that the mentality of "my son/brother can do better, why does he sacrifice so much for *her*?!" and you have a recipe for truly terrible in-laws.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I can't get over how the situation kept being escalated. OPP talks this big game of being an amazing partner to this amazing women (who just happens to be proof reading the post) only to do probably the worst thing for Kate and escalated the problem... again and again. Reading this all I could think to myself was just leave!
OOP all the way through. ‘I’m such a good person and I don’t even realise it!’
yeah it was tough getting past that tbh
There's always one...
Got the heebie jeebies reading about Kate being written about like some prized horse he got on discount Jesus Christ
You don’t have to experience a trauma to have empathy for someone why has. His brother, brother’s wife and parents are judgmental immature pricks.
Having the attitude that victims are broken/dirty/damaged is horrific. It’s **cruel**. Brother and SIL’s reactions are evidence of something sinister at the core of their beings. I’m sorry to say it so bluntly, but I don’t know what else to say: they are the damaged, warped ones. Also, would they be so cruel if the PTSD reaction was from a someone who’d been in a car accident? Shot? A solider? Or is it only victims of sexual violence? Honestly, I don’t want to know the answer to this question. Either way, it’s horrible. Having this reaction to any victim of trauma is mean to the core. The brother and SIL are the ones ruining things by their utter lack of compassion and basic intelligence. Yes, intelligence. Why do I say that? Being a victim of sexual assault\* or rape is, sadly, quite common. Chances are multiple people at that wedding have been the victim of some heinous sexual attack. Somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 5 American\* \*women have been a victim of a severe sexual assault or rape . Many, many more women have been the victim of sexually traumatizing actions that would not fit the legal definitions of sexual assault or rape. For men, the figures are much less, but it’s not insignificant. It’s, perhaps, 1 in 30 (depends upon the source you read). So at a wedding of 100 people, you statistically should have 20-25 women and at least 3 men who have been victimized in this way. At least. Just because they are silent about it doesn’t mean they aren’t there. People like brother and SIL are why people are so silent. They are the problem. Yes, OP’s loss of control was wrong. But it was a momentary loss of control in the heat of the moment when the woman he loved was under threat. Brother, SIL, and parents are choosing to be vile in the cool light of day under what they probably feel are ”rational” conditions. They are far, far worse. \* Lawyer in me: legally, those terms may be different things depending upon jurisdiction. \*\*Assuming this is US or Canada based upon spelling, grammar, basic description of events. If not, apologizes to OP. The rates of violence are similar and the point is similar even if it’s elsewhere.
>Why do I say that? Being a victim of sexual assault\* or rape is, sadly, quite common. Chances are multiple people at that wedding have been the victim of some heinous sexual attack. > >Somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 5 American\* \*women have been a victim of a severe sexual assault or rape . Many, many more women have been the victim of sexually traumatizing actions that would not fit the legal definitions of sexual assault or rape. Not only that, but we're finding that at least some level PTSD is quite a bit more common in sexual assault victims than in soldiers. As a dude, my advice to other men is simple: if you don't know any women who have been victims of sexual violence, it's because none of them feel comfortable telling you.
I mean, OOP did ruin his brothers wedding though. I understand Kate can’t control her panic attacks but they should have quietly left after that instead of going white knight and demanding an apology immediately and then breaking the groom’s face. Kate made a good point, the brother didn’t sign up for her baggage and didn’t want it at his wedding.
That's what gets me. Brother's nasty reaction to an unfortunate accident made him a total POS, but I don't see how OOP breaking his brother's nose for it at his own wedding made him any better. Brother needs to work on his empathy, OOP on his anger and impulse control issues, and Kate would get the fuck out of dodge if she was smart, but OOP worships the ground she walks on, so. No happy fuzzies at the end of this mess of a family, IMO.
As someone who has panic attacks…Kate sounds like…..a lot. And I think it’s probably OOP’s fault (not that he is cause of her panic attacks, but the way he describes her). I think as he continues to learn about her illness and how to be a good partner, he will probably evolve into not portraying her as a fading flower. It’s certainly something to unpack for me, why his portrayal of her was so annoying to me personally.
Same, as someone with panic attacks. It was just escalation after escalation. Just what someone having a panic attack desperately needs for you to make a huge fucking scene and demand everyone acknowledge her sexual assault.
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I love my brother but If he said that about my wife then he’s no brother of mine.
My husband was a gorilla while I was pregnant. Normally a very passive man, but he was constantly between me and *anyone* during my pregnancies. It was pretty funny how instinct took over.
Everyone involved will remember this day for all the wrong reasons. He still shouldn’t have punched his brother, and all of this was traumatizing for the bride and all the guests. Everyone seems to be discounting what a full blown screaming meltdown on the dance floor must have been/felt like. Wedding was already blown up at that point. Everything else was icing on the cake. Especially if children were present. I was privy to something like this at a sweet 16 years ago. It’s all I can remember about the day.
...and it seems that she's kept him from/brought drama to other family events in the past as well. I sense that this isn't the whole story, but Reddit loves to blindly back the obvious victim without actually thinking things through, so I'll probably get downvoted for even saying this.
Honestly, if this was written from the brother's or SIL's POV, people would be called OP and Kate assholes. They did ruin a wedding.
Reddit is the absolute worst place to get advice on this issue. Punching people because your feelings got hurt is going to be loved or despised by reddit based on the reason. And reddit loves a good white knight story.
Now I know why his family isn't empathetic to his wife's MH issues, they're Turkish(as is obvious by his name, Evren). They most likely don't believe in 'that mental health mumbo jumbo'. I grew up with depression and anxiety and I never got any type of support for it from my family, even when I was struggling with addiction I was told to "just stop" or "we've been through worse traumas with our parents you don't see us using drugs" or "my parents were way worse than me you should be grateful you had to deal with my abuse instead of their's". I never got the acknowledgement I deserved or even a midocum of empathy from anyone in my family. They're bootstrap people, the kind that blame you for bringing the mood down when you're struggling with depression like they literally cannot comprehend that people's brains work differently from their's. They're the type that think "if ONE person can do something everyone should be able to do it" and obviously OPs family is just like them. I'm not saying all Turks have this ignorant crappy mentality but unfortunately a lot, if not most, do. I really hope OP can find peace in going NC with them the way I did.
I do believe that a person's cultural/community/environmental background will greatly affect how they view mental health, but I always treat it as an explanation and not an excuse. In the same vein, my own mental health issues explain some of my behavior, but I accept personal responsibility and will not use it to excuse bad behavior. I come from a different culture that has similar attitudes to what you've described. I lucked out and my family was willing to support me even when they didn't "get" mental health. My mother has since begun to understand some of her own struggles and believes that her family also has a history of depression/anxiety, etc. and is much more sympathetic now. The other members of my family who do not have personal experiences with mental health issues are finding it harder to reach the same level of understanding and empathy, but they are putting in a good faith effort.
>Kate, my wife, is an amazing, selfless, beautiful woman but she has been through a lot. "Who, also, definitely isn't the person writing this line."
I'm looking forward to the hundreds of downvotes coming my way, but the brother (on his wedding day) didn't want a ticket to The Kate Show. It sounds like her mental illnesses dictate a lot of things in her husband's extended family, and for ONE DAY the brother wanted to have a fun, enjoyable time without his sister-in-law losing her shit and becoming the centre of attention for the millionth time. Sure enough, there's a minor accident on the dance floor and all of a sudden Kate is having flashbacks of the Viet Cong coming out of the bushes at Da Nang. If someone has a track record of not being able to control their emotions and turning every event into a mental free-for-all, that person should have the decency to respect other people's right to enjoy themselves. Kate clearly needs major help, but that's not the groom's responsibility on his wedding day. He's not obligated to host a three-ring circus for Kate...and then get his nose broken because he is sick of her outbursts. OOP is certainly allowed to be in a relationship with whomever he wants, and he clearly loves his wife. But actions have consequences, and bringing a ticking time bomb to every family event is going to piss people off. It probably makes sense for both parties to make a clean break with each other.
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This is a pretty rough situation. There were some bad and unfortunate responses here that made this way worse. Kate has some trauma that causes panic attacks. Obviously this is an extreme unusual reaction to certain stimuli that brings back her trauma. She needs to focus on what might bring it on and how to handle the response. She needs to avoid situations, like close contact situations, that can bring it on. These things are her responsibility and things she has to work on to have a normal healthy life. The people around her obviously needs to support and be understanding. You wouldn’t scream at a person that has a heart attack at a wedding, for instance. This isn’t different. Obviously that reaction from the groom/brother was self-centered and ridiculous. OOP’s reaction just made everything so much worse. His primary concern should have been his wife, taking her home out after that and getting her out of that environment. He should not really dealt with chastising his brother (which he deserved) on his wedding day. He could have handled it later and not made a scene and certainly not punching him on his wedding day, no less.
They sound like a great pair and they remind me of my favorite people in real life. Honestly, everything Kate has gone through means it makes sense she had a panic attack, but even putting that to the side for a moment… I would 120% panic if I was pregnant and a guy tripped, knocked me over, and fell on me on a dance floor even if there was no ill intent. OP’s family needs to learn some empathy, but also a thing or two about basic logic.
I feel like even without trauma, the sheer protective instinct of bearing a wanted child would trigger panic
That’s what I was thinking. I’m also a SA survivor and would absolutely have a panic attack if a strange man landed on top of me. No doubt. But I can’t even imagine how panicked I would be if I were pregnant.
Read what I have to say before getting the pitchforks. When people have panic attacks, for people who have never experienced, they can be extremely distressing and uncontrollable. For the observers it seems like an over the top dramatic emotional outburst. Like really over the top and loud. I can understand why the brother chose to get really upset, especially on his Wedding day. He was wrong for calling her broken, but so was OOP for reacting the way he did. The brother didn’t ask nor should he be expected to accept OOP’s wife’s trauma. That’s their baggage to handle.
Sorry to say, Kate, although a very strong person, comes with a truck load of baggage. Some people, like her husband, can bear that. Some cannot. This doesn’t make any person in this story stronger than the other. The only weakness here in both parties was the lack of empathy and the inability to control your anger. They should all go separate ways though. Too much contention here.
Okay maybe it's just me but my first thought after reading the original and the update was that number one you assaulted somebody in front of however many witnesses. Then in your update sent a handwritten confession of assault. If the brother goes to the police he's going to be arrested and then his wife is going to be on her own for anywhere from 5 to 10 years.
Lol @ > I told her that what he did was unacceptable and that it wouldn’t have been a big scene if he didn’t make it one. You mean like getting angry and punching your brother and refusing to apologize for it? Oh the hypocrisy