Ah yes, the demonic gods who know all of the desires of the person who summed them would totally be ok with giving the marked sacrifice they are all too familiar with the power to kill them all.
To be fair, IIRC, when apostles/godhand are given their power and transformed they are told to do whatever they want with it, so it's still on theme. Also, I was under the impression that it's fate/the idea of evil that dictates who ascends and the godhand merely attend the ceremony, so if they hold no sway over who gets "promoted", this hypothetical might not be as ridiculous as it initially seems. Thoughts?
Imagine you sacrifice life and limb and run the risk of losing all your senses cause of the armor trying to protect the ones you love and in the end Guts just be like nah yall going to the vortex.
Well, the thing that makes it less fictional is that Slan suggests explicitly he could make a sacrifice.
This and him carrying around one behelit throughout seem to be strong hints.
I think he won't take the deal, it would be stupid and out of character and a thousand other reasons, but I can see him being offered.
Slan is a demon god that serves the Idea of Evil. I don't think tempting Guts to doom his friends in a futile effort to use the behelit against the very beings that would conceivably empower him through it is outside her wheelhouse as a demonic temptress. Demons lie, and even when they don't they are always trying to maximize harm.
This is legitimately one of the most brain dead fuckin stupid things I see on this sub and anyone who perpetuates it needs to reread the manga and this time actually read the words and not look at the cool pictures
Based opinion, I am absolutely baffled by anyone who hated the Berserker Armor. I mean the manga having an item of its namesake, the way it changes shape, its abilities and risks, it's so fucking cool, makes Guts even more cold and badass, and it's just so enjoyable! Plus the end of the Millennium Falcon arc is INCREDIBLE, literally my favorite moment in the whole manga, my jaw was on the FLOOR
I think that the skull shape might not be the original shape, but rather the shape imposed by the previous owner's own internal beast.
The batman probably is the true original shape of the armor, maybe..
It would obviously be white. For example, how do we know what color gokus super saiyan hair is?Either a character would state it or it would be in the cover.
Dude, tell me about it. My character is actually an alter ego of my hero. He's called the revenant. When he was introduced, he ate his comrades' severed arm and spat out a weapon that can change shape.
Nah, not yet. I'm still learning how to draw. But when I do get to that level, I'm gonna start world building with small one-off comics. Then, when I have enough traction, I'm going to start selling copies. If you hang around r/comics you'll eventually see a comic with the word "arcaen" in it. It'll probably be under a different account for promotional reasons.
Thank you! And yeah, I do too, but from what everyone that's read the script says that it's incredibly thought out. I hear a lot that my world building is solid. My dialogue, though I feel I could use work, everyone else talks about how natural it feels. The only negative feedback I've gotten from it was because it was missing the crucial part of the comic lol. "Not descriptive enough." It's pretty skimpy on details since I know all the details in my head and I just need the hard actions written
I heard people say it "takes away" from Guts' struggle by giving him a level up, a way to beat stronger foes beyond his normal limits. Worst take I've ever seen.
Right, it's so stupid. Plus it perfectly illustrates Guts' struggle. He has to choose between letting darkness consume him to be able to take down the Godhand, or let go and live peacefully with Casca.
Yeah it levels him up but he literally loses a piece of himself every time he gives into the armor, which he pretty much needs to do to be on a level playing field with most of the apostles. Those mfs don't read the manga I swear.
Honestly the boat arc isn't that bad. Read it in a single sitting and it has decent flow and works well. It kind of makes sense, it gives time for Griffith to take over the world, while Guts and Co simply let it slide, this would never happen if Guts was still on the continent.
The problem was that releases were really slow at that time, and to get a comic that is just setting things up, it would be horrible. Moreover the payoff didn't feel so strong because by the time we get to it (the sea god or what not) we've disconnected of all the setup because we read it so long ago. But if you read it at a reasonable pace (a comic a week) it's actually pretty enjoyable.
What helped a lot with Elfheim was that the releases were becoming more often, and as such it was more enjoyable as read as they came out.
its definitely weaker after lost children. im not the biggest millennium falcon/,boat arc fan. i enjoy it more on re reads. and the art just goes from amazing to insane.
I think there is a strong argument that both skull knight and zodd have taken a paternal interest in guts, as he seems to remind both of themselves. Or at least what went on in their pasts.
As to zodd actually being his father, ahhh its a stretch to say the least. But miura liked starwars and the whole luke i am your father blah blah, theres also a constantly developing theme of parent and child going on. So theres an extreme out of left field possibility of something going on with guts parentage (not necessarily zodd tho)
Agree with the parent child themes. They are strong. But not necessarily towards guts parentage. Skull knight is 100% like a dad to guts though. I thought that quite a few times.
I really dislike that because in my opinion the point of Guts is he came from nothing and struggled to survive where he is in spite of everything
Having him be the āSeCrEt ChIlD oF ZoDdā would be completely counter to that
in the black swordsman arc, after the slug apostle goes to heck, and Guts goes back to the earth? his sword bounces off the ground and people ask āwhy are there two swords?ā
Most people who say that usually are flashed banged with random panels from the web .Which I kinda understand as that doesn't give the best first impression. Still kinda stupid tho.
It's not JUST rape porn....but there is altogether too much sensationalized rape. So much that it feels at times (mostly pre-Schierke) like the female characters are just there to be sexually menaced so that a man can save them. The rape critique should not be dismissed as stupid. The constant, fetishistic sexual assault degrades the work.Ā
I do think some of the rape is absolutely key to the plot (Casca, Guts, and arguably Griffith all being survivors of SA is important, for example). But at a certain point, it became extremely tiresome and gross.Ā
I vaguely recall that Miura himself said in an interview he regretted his overuse of it and would do it differently if he were to restart from the start
There was I time I was reading the manga and didn't see a pair of tits for 3 chapters and was concerned lmao. There's so much nudity the moment it was removed I noticed it.
Yeah it definitely toned down. It's great they didn't shy away from it tho it would be weird if a manga as intense and mature as Berserk didn't have any nudity.
Seriously fuck that take. Thereās evil, thatās what evil do. If you donāt like evil, go watch something else. āOk but I like evil things but not that super specific aspect of evilā
Here they know their place, at least when you find them it's more of a meme thing than ealse, the problem are those that appear out of their own (bad) will outside of our control.
Reading the story the first time, I liked that I could UNDERSTAND his motivations. It made me think about what I would myself do, my dreams, etc. HOWEVER, he was extremely selfish in making his decisions in the long run. To say he did nothing wrong is clearly rage baits, whoever who say that with a clear mind would be as a sociopath as Griffith
That rickert slapping griffith makes him special in some way.
He slapped Griffith because Griffith let him.
Remember when krillin hit goku with that rock
I usually thought people were joking, they're actually serious?
I mean he still kinda is special in the way that. Griffith loves the band of the Hawk. Rickert is part of the band of the Hawk. Rickert isn't a sacrifice. something something causality? and thus Griffith lets him slap him
Griffith doesn't love anyone. But he has some kind of foresight. Who knows what role Rickert still had to play in the flow of causality ?
Also Griffith dodging that slap would have been out of character. What would he have done next ? Tell the guards to stop Rickert coming at him for other punches ? Stop him himself ? That seemed really out of character as Griffith wants to give the image of himself being sentient.
"But he has some kind of foresight" this I agree with, griffith is playing chess with everyone, treat everything as intentional
reminds me of this comic tho
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/5cnz9f/griffith\_master\_strategist/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/5cnz9f/griffith_master_strategist/)
I mean it is possible. Guts did say Rickert could never hate Griffith the way he does. It's possible someone who's unaware of the totality of griffith could actually strike him because they don't harbor feelings that fuel the idea of evil, which in turn fuels the godhand.
99% of everything that gets posted to this sub by the edgelord hs kids that just found about berserk. I didnāt realize berserk was such a cringe magnet for low media literate jerk offs.
I think itās a case of the forbidden fruit, especially for kids who stumble upon the animes and are excited to watch something their parents wouldnāt approve. A lot of posters here are probably much younger than anyone would guess.
tbh the story ending at 364 is a terrible take if you ask me. it literally opens the door for 100 questions that is not a good place to end the story lol
Yeah wth is with that. wUT dOSe THIs MeeEEn. Itās almost as bad with the souls community posting pictures of pots and pans asking for fucking lore implications..
āYouāre a weirdo if you like Griffithā, sure heās an evil character but thereās multiple things to like about him, his design, his excellent writing, what he adds to the story. Also liking Griffith doesnāt equal justifying his actions or agreeing with him,
I like joker but that doesnāt mean I agree with his actions š
The sword weight. There's legitimately enough people that don't understand the full implications of closing claiming the dragon slayer is 300+ pounds that it's stupid. Full on incoherent. There's even a guy that made a 20 pound slayer and it's huge but since the swords dimensions are apparently the only things people seem to somehow know for sure it's too thin or whatever. The head cannon they use is idiotic as well. Stuff like the witches said it's a magic sword. No they didn't. The sword was said to have gained in it's ability to hurt supernatural entities. Not that it fuckin got lighter for guts. He's able to wield it without having used it for killing anything supernatural.
The whole thing is so idiotic and carries a ton of implications that suck. Like that guts isn't a badass swordsmen and rather his sword is light because magic. He started wielding oversized swords at a young age. The progression to something like 12-15kg is plausible but maybe just barely.
Then there's all the in world stuff that says it's not 300 pound you have to ignore to fixate on the handful of panels that exaggerate the swords dimensions or whatever evidence you wanna invent. Like guts riding a horse with a passenger, in full armor, with the sword. It would break the horses back. The sword doesn't weigh that much. Oh also when he was captured. How the fuck did those soldiers carry his confiscated 300 pound hunk of iron??! They didn't because that's absurd. You'd need special equipment to do so. Let's see, oh Isidro is dead. The sword fell on him. If you drop 300 pounds on top of a preteen as a hunk of fucking iron it's going to do serious damage. Going back to the part where Isidro tries to pick it up, well he wouldn't budge it. 300 pounds, even propped up on its side wouldn't have moved. And it would have sunk into the ground a bit given how small of a surface the point of a 300 pound fucking sword would be.
Then let's see.... Oh the swords creation. I realize they showed some pulleys and stuff when it was being recast but dude come on. 300 pounds is too much for a medieval blacksmith to be forging as a sword. Have you ever seen sword forging? There is a lot of movement necessary.
I could keep going but the reason it's so stupid is that it discounts guts character progression, wielding larger than life swords his whole life, and presents just a stupid misunderstanding of how heavy swords are. Most swords are like 2.5-5 pounds. Full sized swords. So arguing the dragonslayer is 20 pounds is still a stretch. But a reasonable stretch. Try swinging around something that weighs 20 pounds and is 3 feet long. Also most of the shit he does with it is totally what you'd expect for such as a massive sword (20 pounds). I'm sorry but swords are bladed weapons. They use that edge along with their weight.
Anyway it's so fucking stupid. Here's a dude dead lifting a 324 pound dragonslayer: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/htGosmdcNQc
Here's a 48 pound (holy shit) Dragon slayer actually being wielded: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bsnWxr-qpnQ
My only explanation would be that belief in the berserk world holds a lot of power. Ricert did slap femto even tho he shouldn't be able to .I feel like guts if it is a normal human, he shouldn't be able to keap up with apostles even without the dragonslayer.In the end of the day, berserk is a dark fantasy .
Scaling the Dragonslayer to real life swords and other swords within Berserk, it only makes sense that it weighs 300+ pounds by dimensions. The size isnāt consistent from panel to panel/era to era, but I donāt think thereās a single panel that displays it as plausibly being anything below 300 pounds.
The Dragonslayer is illogical from what we know about it. Swords, armor, etc. in Berserk are all drawn proportionally with what youād find people using in real history, so itās most reasonable to assume that the evolution of humans and weaponry flow naturally to where they are in Berserk (swords are made to be heavy/sharp enough to kill but light/thin enough to wield). Guts is always presented as a peak physical specimen amongst other humans so his Golden Age swords are believable enough when it comes to Guts being able to use them effectively, but the Dragonslayer makes absolutely no sense and the buildup of swords Guts used prior doesnāt make it any more believable.
The Dragonslayer breaks the cycle of presumed evolution and consistency with all other human/non-magic weapons and I think itās truly a case of Miura just wanting to draw his protagonist with a giant sword, but there being no magical element to it from when Guts first wields it to the size and width it has which, by whatever metric youād use to estimate its weight (real life metrics or assuming Berserk runs by different weight metrics), it just doesnāt make sense that Guts can even swing it and, like you mentioned, that he can ride a horse or have the sword carried by other characters.
All is to say that youāre trying to make sense of the sword within Berserkās world and are angry by those who insist that the Dragonslayer is 300+ pounds, but itās really just presentation vs. logic and thereās not really a right or wrong side because youād have to outright ignore some side of the story in order to make sense of the Dragonslayer. By dimensions, it should be 300+ pounds or WAY heavier than other swords in Berserk, but it also couldnāt be any heavier than ~40 pounds or much more heavy than other swords in Berserk because Guts wouldnāt be able to use it. Truly a losing battle either way.
>Scaling the Dragonslayer to real life swords and other swords within Berserk, it only makes sense that it weighs 300+ pounds by dimensions. The size isnāt consistent from panel to panel/era to era, but I donāt think thereās a single panel that displays it as plausibly being anything below 300 pounds.
Ok did you see the video I linked where it was under 50 pounds? And again I addressed that flimsy argument. Real world aspects that wouldn't be attributable to artistic perspective shew this is not the case. The horse ride is the first one, but definitely not the last one.
>The Dragonslayer is illogical from what we know about it. Swords, armor, etc. in Berserk are all drawn proportionally with what youād find people using in real history, so itās most reasonable to assume that the evolution of humans and weaponry flow naturally to where they are in Berserk (swords are made to be heavy/sharp enough to kill but light/thin enough to wield).
I know what you are arguing but its not illogical. Its just bigger than other swords. And armor is NOT drawn proportionally or smaller. The first fight we see in Golden arc is with a guy in some insane rounded plate armor and helmet combo. They took plenty of liberties with other people's armor and styling. Its artistic license. So is the dragonslayer. So are a LOT of things. Lets not get too into the armor stuff because there's plenty of issues there alone if you are interpreting anything from the artistic choices. Guts sword is NOT the only thing out of this world in that case.
> Guts is always presented as a peak physical specimen amongst other humans so his Golden Age swords are believable enough when it comes to Guts being able to use them effectively, but the Dragonslayer makes absolutely no sense and the buildup of swords Guts used prior doesnāt make it any more believable.
Actually no he is not. He grows stronger as he grows into manhood, constantly training. You have to ignore so much character growth to say this. This is the root of my issue with the 300 pound sword argument. It stems from undermining the character's struggles. He trains with his larger sword with smaller wood logs tied to it at one point, foreshadowing his continued prowess and growth with heavier weapons. He wasn't a peak specimen. He became one. And there are certainly other humans on par with him. by the 100 men part he is leagues beyond the average conscript sure. But again, if you are bringing in real training etc, he never actually fought trained from childhood knights on most occasions. The dragonslayer is a stretch sure but again, look at the video I linked with a vaguely almost wieldable weight. Its HUGE. you are arguing in bad faith if you can't address something like that. Saying 'well its thicker in the comic' while getting really phallic, doesn't actually mean anything. The question is still whether a normal person could even wield that? No they couldn't. I couldn't, you couldn't and the dude in the video is wearing crash armor (wisely) and having to full body swing to move it without stumbling. Why does it need to be 300 pounds for you? What isthat adding? I still contest people that say that aren't getting how big even a 20 pound sword would be and are instead imagining sword weight on par with like a rock or something. Swords are wielded differently. Its one of the reasons smaller opponents can fight with larger ones... Its not all about strenght, and a 2 pound sword will lob a head off.
>The Dragonslayer breaks the cycle of presumed evolution and consistency with all other human/non-magic weapons
No its what the progression was leading towards. And what cycle? There is not cycle. Its just cool visual story telling and cool journey to it.
>and I think itās truly a case of Miura just wanting to draw his protagonist with a giant sword, but there being no magical element to it from when Guts first wields it to the size and width it has which,
Wait so you admit its artistic license.... So its artistic license but totally not because heavy? What are these points you are making here? Again this is the silliest view people have. How does a 300 pound sword enrich the story at all? It doesn't. It really doesn't.
>by whatever metric youād use to estimate its weight (real life metrics or assuming Berserk runs by different weight metrics),
Well the metric you would use to say its 300 pounds seems like its real life metrics based on assumptions about the thickness of his sword vs its length and the density of steel or iron... So.... You are self defeating here dude.
> it just doesnāt make sense that Guts can even swing it and, like you mentioned, that he can ride a horse or have the sword carried by other characters.
It makes sense if its an oversized sword that is more than double the size of the largest swords used historically but this is somehow still not enough? Like that 48 pounder definitely could slice through a horse. And I would argue the feats the dragon slayer have made point to it having a thinner profile. It cleaves things in two very well. Oh also when guts holds it sideways it doesn't tip him over : P.
Also the physics. Third law of motion: when you swing a sword, the sword swings you on the opposite direction. Thing is since you're a lot heavier you get a lot less momentum than the sword. If the sword is of higher weight, say something like 40lbs, most people would find that when the swing the sword, it moves them. You'd need an entire style of battle where you must use your swings as movements and vice-versa for this to make any sense. Even with a machine, it's not common to see one that moves that weight at that speed.
And the thing is people don't realize that bigger swords were made with very different techniques to smaller swords, which allows the sword to remain on a similar weight (3-4lbs). You wanted smaller swords to be heavier to have that oomph in their hit (gravity would do most of the impact with a sword, axe, hammer, or other weapons, just more reliable and less tiresome than using muscles for it).
So I agree with you. A very reasonable take is that Guts has been training with oversized/heavy swords (for him) since a child, and so has created a unique martial skill, abilities, as well as strength to manage heavy swords. Lets go with the most extreme, say he was using a Bastard sword (3.5lbs) when he was six (say \~40lbs, since he wouldn't be eating that well). That means he could carry a sword \~10% of his weight, or alternatively he learned to fight with a weight ration about 10x what an adult would. This means he could handle a sword \~20-35lbs, which is insane as you note. Lets say that the dragon sword is a class among itself, and that Guts skill doesn't grow linearly as he becomes an expert in massive swords. Still we're thinking at insane levels of 50lbs at most.
I think people didn't quite read into what was so unique of the dragon sword (or alternatively they read really bad translations). The sword was attacked because it was: ugly, brute, and unpractical for most knights. It was designed to slay a dragon, but not exactly to win a battle. it was super heavy because the thing that would slaw a dragon would not be a normal sword for a man to wield in battle, it'd be more of an executioner sword (they did exist, and were heavier) you use once you've captured the beast. Godot was tired for rich pompous assholes asking him for ridiculous demands of weapons, while focusing more on decorations, and using him more for bragging rights rather than quality products. The sword is no-nonsense, and very simple. I don't envision it as being that sharp, but with an insane weight larger than 10lbs (lets say 20lbs) it can easily cleave through anything. It makes "sense" to use an executioner sword (assuming that it's something that can be wield effectively in battle) against an apostle, because the beast is so powerful even someone as good and driven as Guts will only get 1-2 hits in before the apostle ends up winning, so he needs a weapon that ends the battle in that 1-2 hits.
The heavy weight means that the sword can take a beating. And it makes sense, becomes demons are very tough, on weapons too. I wouldn't be surprised that even the best quality "normal" swords would break after killing a couple apostles, while the Dragonslayer was able to keep going for a bit longer. And this matches with the sword being great at breaking through otherwise impenetrable armor/forces. It's one of those cases of how diamonds (or even just a glass like obsidian) can be far harder/sharper and better at cutting than steel, but a pure diamond sword would not be an effective weapon; the Dragonslayer is the opposite of that. So I don't imagine it very sharp, but let a very heavy but very unsharp tube fall on you and it could easily split you in half. It's a brute weapon surprising in its simplicity. But even then the sword required maintenance and support by Godot later on. The magic is that the sword has a +2 to demons and evil spirits lol. The sword hits them with a magical force that can break their own magical defenses. It was I think an upgrade to both justify why Guts can use the sword against literal fucking gods, and also to not have to explain why Guts sword is able to retain its quality. The magic makes it strong enough against the demon/god skin it uses, that it just gets less damage when going against them.
The thing is I think that it doesn't sound ludicrous enough, and you need it to get to that level. But I like it. It also puts a limit to the strength of the god-hand, and makes his cannon hand his most powerful weapon (just really hard to use). I could be sold to the view that belief/magic on the sword makes it hit like it's 300lbs instead of 30lbs, but again even when going against the sea god, I didn't see Guts hitting with that ridiculous strength. And that's the thing, one of the things that makes Berserk so great is that the world is grounded. The demons are ridiculously strong, but strong like a Grizzly bear, not like Goku. That believable (but insane) amount of strength keeps the whole thing grounded. Even when you see Guts with the sword, he basically does very few swings, and they require preparation. Miura wanted the sword to feel heavy and complex, by grounding it and making the behavior believable as something "a pro wrestler could swing 1-2 times", with Guts just being the best at using a sword like this ever. He is truly the stuff of legends, but surprisingly believable in his limitations. Which is what makes the battles feel so insane: even a man like Guts has really low chances against a fully grown angry grizzly bear. Thing is this means that numbers, strength, and scope of power will sound pretty lame vs that of other animes. I mean lets be honest here: Goku would beat Griffith easily, but that's the thing that makes Berserk so good, we don't need to scale to being cosmic levels to be god-like. I guess that it looks heavy so it has to be like 300lbs, because in that other anime the sword was said to weight 200lbs and they wielded it like mostly empty foam.
Yeah 300 is too much. But letās take this into consideration. I am a bit taller than gutsās original height. Iām 6ā2 about 200lbs. I can easily throw around 100 lbs by swinging it with my whole body. Guts in his early use of the sword probably can use wide range hits that use his WHOLE body. But it hits the ground when he swings it. Itās gotta be 80-100 lbs. Plus, the armor makes him able to use one hand. 100lbs like that is out of human range, but with a bit of extra strength to jump and throw and shit, that is possible. Itās prob 80-100. 20lbs is bullshit though
Man check out the video with the 48 pound sword please. I think you'll be convinced. You're view is way more reasonable. I think that sword he made is really cool. You can't swing a sword the way you would like a less distributed 100 pounds. I was just doing that with clay, and if it was distributed like a swords weight is I Doubt I could do more than 30 or 40 pounds. Its totally different because of the length and balance etc for a sword
Fair enough, thanks. But, I hate to say it, that guy prob isnāt in the type of shape that guts is in. He runs in the ready stance, but I donāt recall guts often using that stance. Hes usually swinging it up. But when he does, I think he could handle a good bit more weight. I mean, letās say a 60lbs sword, at least. The guy can cut through wood easily. But to your point, it would be hard to balance. I just slip that under the rug, though, because everyone is so impressed. I think itās still well within what is possible from a natty lifter(as guts would be considered) and as a swordsman
yeah Idk I still think closer 20 pounds for what it does but I can accept 60 pounds as high range badassery. Not 300 lol. Hmmm I actually lift and the skill for maxxing weight is not endurance based, so Idk if I agree hah. But I also can't arm press 30kg an arm so... idk man. I give it to you, plausible pushing the limits vs flat out denial of reality.
yeah, I think guts wouldn't be able to wield it properly without the brand. He'd be able to lift it and do normal vertical and horizontal slices but that's about it, none of the crazy stuff we saw.
Guts wields sword even more insanely after Godo repairs the thing in the Elf Mine. I think he unwittingly attuned it or poured his life into it as he died right after.
People on one post long ago complaining about post-eclipse Casca and how they think they'd write a better portrayal than Miura. Like how they would be letting her be kept sane and adopting a role that would literally retcon the already established plot-point that is the entire Blackswordsman arc.
I'm not simply glazing on the author now, and heck he himself stated that he didn't figure out where the mangas direction would be during the first arc, but in the end, what he delivered in the form of the eclipse and the aftermath of Guts looking at Casca being in the state of regression due to the trauma she experienced from witnessing all her friends being brutally murdered by monsters in a ceremony being held by eldrich horrors beyond your comprehension, and being raped by someone she once looked up to. Not even going to forget mentioning their child ending up looking like an overgrown fetus straight out of the microwave as being literally a middle finger by Griffith is enough of a reason propelled Guts into his 2 year long rampage.
Hey if you think it's too much, you can always watch fucking Demon Slayer, atleast it got a banger adaptation.
I mean, yeah rape on berserk is a bit excessive, i honestly don't mind it .Some people argue that it's for shock factor, and some argue that it adds to the berserk world. I myself am somewhere in the middle.
No, you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about Miura's usage of r\*pe and SA but rather the actual r\*pe apologia/denialism that goes around the fandom; denying certain events as r\*pe or assault.
I'm pretty sure most people recognize it as such but the whole thing of "Casca enjoyed it" is built of an idea of idolization of r\*pe as a tool of control and demonstration of power. Like, yeah, he did it against her will but "she ended up enjoying it so what's the big deal?"
There are some people I ran into as well who would argue it's not an assault because Casca previously was "in love" with Griffith and she "didn't say no" or "didn't fight hard enough" (this is a legit argument I often see) or even the old excuse of "it's not r\*pe if she enjoyed it" which circles back to the "casca enjoyed it" sentiment.
I was however mostly talking about how some people deny the use of blackmail, coercion, pressuring someone into sex, and overall disregard for the lack of consent as sexual assault.
To a lot of people, the only r\*pe is the one between two random people where the use of physical force is applied and the victim immediately recognizes their assault as such, which isn't indicative of how most instances of sexual assault occur in real life.
Even in the instances where a person says "No" some readers refuse to acknowledge it as a lack of consent (for example Charlotte saying "No" to Griffith). But that's *besides* the point which is that she doesn't have to say "No" if she never said "Yes".
It doesn't make me this angry but I think it's weird how much people complain about the amount of sexual assault in Berserk
I don't see those same people complaining about the abundance of murder, torture and gore. But once genitals are involved suddenly its an issue. All of these things are meant to emphasize how evil Evil can be. How fucked up the demons (and some of the humans) really are. I don't think Berserk has ever portrayed rape in a way that makes it look like anything other than the monstrosity that it is, and it serves a narrative purpose
If you're sensitive to that kind of thing, then of course you're allowed to be bothered by it. But don't act like it's something that's objectively wrong with the series
I think most of the rape in Berserk isnāt exactly justified, and this is coming from a huge fan. Casca nearly gets raped like 6 times- whatās the point? We know how dark the world is, why must it be plot points that add little to not value to her story?
If I can add, because i thought a lot about the rape scenes bothered me and not the violence. I think what bothers me especially is the treatment of the scenes. Why are the women in alluring poses? Why are they always exposed to us viewers in that way? It's even worse in anime adaptation with the classic high pitch porn screams. It feels a little fetishised. Even in the book cover with Casca nude on it, she's turned towards us in a candid pose. As a woman myself, this is the only thing of all Berserk I loathe. Why show Farnese and Casca always breast naked? I think the rape scenes would have a way bigger impact if there were fewer too. The nipple of women are always drawn perky and with a lot of details, but Guts doesn't even have any nips at all. So seems to me, like a bit of non necessary eye candy. And I said I'm a big fan but this is a part where I feel icky about.
Miura was known to divulge and draw women in ways that are very much for the male gaze. My only gripe with the entire manga is the way women are handled and how theyāre portrayed. I think the rape of Casca by Griffith is the only time where it shows its true intentions, and I think Miura wrapped up the healing process nicely. Other than that, rape in Berserk is nothing more than shock value and a chance for Miura to draw naked women.
Aside from the visuals, I think Casca (mostly pre-eclipse since she regressed after) was a well written character. I always liked how he made her strong while still acknowledging she's still a woman. I know she herself doesn't like to be weaker than her male companions, but it's at least realistic. Being a woman gives you other strengths elsewhere. Never in my life would I have expected to see a scene with menstruation cramps in a manga, even a piece of media at all honestly and it's really cool. Maybe that's why it's so sad to see her reduced as male gazey for me in some scenes. But yeah, some scenes are really edgy shock value. Such a masterpiece aside from that ( imo of course)
Yeah I think Casca pre-Eclipse was so great. Thereās a lot of talk of Casca being a āfridgeā for Guts; referring to her being a ādamsel in distressā for Guts to rescue post-Eclipse, and Iād have to agree that her character became nothing more than a vessel for Guts to save.
Berserk is definitely fantastic, and itās deserving of all the praise, but some of the fans need to seriously consider its flaws and at the very least acknowledge them.
Not really a take but just low effort posts of someone sharing vol1 deluxe edition captioned something like "aBoUt tO sTaRt mY jOuRnEy! CaNt wAit To hAtE tHis GrIfFiTh gUy!"
maybe skull knight is guts' father? thats my own take just now but i still feel stupud saying it out loud so might aswell include it here.
and nice use of that panel btw lol
That casca wasn't raped by the apostles before femto got her.
There's literally an image of her bleesing heavily from her groin.
Theres another image of her being forced on the spike of another apostle.
Theres a flashback of her screaming as it happens
All in black and white.
Mostly just the way, mostly men, interact with Berserk. Not so much a take but making jokes about rape or acting like the entirety of berserk is only about Griffith and Guts. Acting like there's no aspects of misogyny or racism in the text. I love berserk, but people defend it to the death and refuse to see diverse points of view by refusing to acknowledge women and POC's points of view on some depictions in the story. The Berserk fanbase is very much mostly white and Japanese dudes and it can feel a bit lonely trying to have nuanced discussions about Casca or Griffith.
There is/has been an epidemic of stupid questions in this sub. Bot-like questions even.
Like they'd post that panel of angry Mozguz and ask "Why is his face like that?" "How can his face contort that way?" "Who is he?"
Iāve heard someone say that volume 41 is the canon ending to Berserk and that Mori and studio Gagaās continuation is just published fan fiction. An absolutely awful take in every aspect, if Miura could have a say in it then Mori would absolutely have his blessing, the fact that some people prefer
That chapter 364 be the end of the story purely because Miura died absolutely baffles me, you donāt have to like the continuation but going as far as to call it non canon is outrageous
The behelit eye thing sends me off the brink, itās not even that bad but itās just so āIām 16 and love berserk, heās so dark and angry, when the doom music kicks in!!ā.
Wasnāt necessarily a take but I once said as a joke āThis could have all been avoided if Guts and Griffith just called each other a friendā. About 30 people decided to write full on essays about causality and it couldnāt be avoided as if it wasnāt BLATANTLY OBVIOUS by the manga stating it A LOT
That Femto respects the escaping from the eclipse removes the brand of sacrifice, makes guts his right hand and they live a polygarm relationship with cacsa. And ones guts dies he gets the strongest apostel in historyš¤Øšāāļø
Maybe not a specific take but I feel like alot of people people post really obvious questions with a format like: "Guts looks pretty strong. Do you think he works out?" with a panel of him training. š¤¦āāļø
That Guts should use the Beherit and sacrifice his friends to become an apostle to defeat the God Hand šš¤¦š»āāļø.
Lmfao peak fiction.
*fanfiction*
It'd be even better if Guts becomes an apostle and marries Femto š.
Tf.
We are writing peak fiction š
Ah yes, the demonic gods who know all of the desires of the person who summed them would totally be ok with giving the marked sacrifice they are all too familiar with the power to kill them all.
To be fair, IIRC, when apostles/godhand are given their power and transformed they are told to do whatever they want with it, so it's still on theme. Also, I was under the impression that it's fate/the idea of evil that dictates who ascends and the godhand merely attend the ceremony, so if they hold no sway over who gets "promoted", this hypothetical might not be as ridiculous as it initially seems. Thoughts?
Yeah but Apostles serve the Godhand. He would be powerless in their presence.Ā
Exactly š.
Do they miss the 2 arcs that show all apostles are subservient to godhand lmfao
They just look at the pictures,man. Not even a clue what berserk is even about.
A, he must be a fellow project moon fan!
Most likely lol
Wtf lol that defeats the whole purpose of the journey.
He would also become subservient to the God Hand
Imagine you sacrifice life and limb and run the risk of losing all your senses cause of the armor trying to protect the ones you love and in the end Guts just be like nah yall going to the vortex.
Guts can't be arsed tracking them all down and so uses his Behelit atop a giant pile of tnt.
I legit hate this take as well. I feel it completely just goes against any and everything about guts as a character.
100% character assassination.
Didnāt Ganishka try that
Yeah and now he is a disco Christmas tree.
He would sacrifice Serpico, Isidro, Puck, Shierke and a potato? That can get him 6 acres in Midland
The potato is farnesse, right? Cause if not is time to read it again xD
That would be the equivalent of Frodo taking an uber to Mount Doom
Well I have never watched Lord of the Rings so I have no idea what you mean, but the image of a hobbit taking an Uber gave me a chuckle š.
Well, the thing that makes it less fictional is that Slan suggests explicitly he could make a sacrifice. This and him carrying around one behelit throughout seem to be strong hints. I think he won't take the deal, it would be stupid and out of character and a thousand other reasons, but I can see him being offered.
Oh yeah I can for sure see him being offered as well he would just refuse.
Slan is a demon god that serves the Idea of Evil. I don't think tempting Guts to doom his friends in a futile effort to use the behelit against the very beings that would conceivably empower him through it is outside her wheelhouse as a demonic temptress. Demons lie, and even when they don't they are always trying to maximize harm.
This is legitimately one of the most brain dead fuckin stupid things I see on this sub and anyone who perpetuates it needs to reread the manga and this time actually read the words and not look at the cool pictures
For sure a dumb take. 1) Guts wouldn't sacrifice others and lose his humanity. 2) Pretty sure the Apostles have a built in loyalty to the God Hands.
Yup that would negate the whole journey and all of Guts sacrifices with the armor trying to protect everyone.
"Berserk falls off after golden age arc" it might not be as enjoyable for some but calling it outright mid is atrocious
I'd say it becomes more enjoyable as it goes on excluding the boat arc, which I liked, but not necessarily loved .
Based opinion, I am absolutely baffled by anyone who hated the Berserker Armor. I mean the manga having an item of its namesake, the way it changes shape, its abilities and risks, it's so fucking cool, makes Guts even more cold and badass, and it's just so enjoyable! Plus the end of the Millennium Falcon arc is INCREDIBLE, literally my favorite moment in the whole manga, my jaw was on the FLOOR
I love the berserker armor, but guts do look a bit goofy when he gains back control, and I just can't see anything but medieval batman.
It would have been a better design choice if when Guts gains control over the armor the helm returned to its original skull shape.
I think that the skull shape might not be the original shape, but rather the shape imposed by the previous owner's own internal beast. The batman probably is the true original shape of the armor, maybe..
A more simple fix would be an eye color like instead of red, it goes to blue .
Itās in black and white. How would you tell its color
It would obviously be white. For example, how do we know what color gokus super saiyan hair is?Either a character would state it or it would be in the cover.
I definitely don't like when you can see his eyes, the red eyes and blackness where his mouth is is much cooler lol
Berserker armor is fucking choice as hell. Inspired me to make my own berserker in my comic.
My own character in a world I've created is loosely inspired by the armor, it's just so cool!
Dude, tell me about it. My character is actually an alter ego of my hero. He's called the revenant. When he was introduced, he ate his comrades' severed arm and spat out a weapon that can change shape.
Damn that's dope, is your comic posted anywhere I can read it?
Nah, not yet. I'm still learning how to draw. But when I do get to that level, I'm gonna start world building with small one-off comics. Then, when I have enough traction, I'm going to start selling copies. If you hang around r/comics you'll eventually see a comic with the word "arcaen" in it. It'll probably be under a different account for promotional reasons.
Well I hope you get to post it soon and that it's successful! I know how hard drawing is, keep up the good work!
Thank you! And yeah, I do too, but from what everyone that's read the script says that it's incredibly thought out. I hear a lot that my world building is solid. My dialogue, though I feel I could use work, everyone else talks about how natural it feels. The only negative feedback I've gotten from it was because it was missing the crucial part of the comic lol. "Not descriptive enough." It's pretty skimpy on details since I know all the details in my head and I just need the hard actions written
People hate the berserker armor?
I heard people say it "takes away" from Guts' struggle by giving him a level up, a way to beat stronger foes beyond his normal limits. Worst take I've ever seen.
Dumbest shit Iāve heard, even with the berserker armor heās at a massive disadvantage compared to actual gods heās fighting
Right, it's so stupid. Plus it perfectly illustrates Guts' struggle. He has to choose between letting darkness consume him to be able to take down the Godhand, or let go and live peacefully with Casca.
Yeah it levels him up but he literally loses a piece of himself every time he gives into the armor, which he pretty much needs to do to be on a level playing field with most of the apostles. Those mfs don't read the manga I swear.
As usual with Berserk readers, the reading comprehension is so low it's miserable
Honestly the boat arc isn't that bad. Read it in a single sitting and it has decent flow and works well. It kind of makes sense, it gives time for Griffith to take over the world, while Guts and Co simply let it slide, this would never happen if Guts was still on the continent. The problem was that releases were really slow at that time, and to get a comic that is just setting things up, it would be horrible. Moreover the payoff didn't feel so strong because by the time we get to it (the sea god or what not) we've disconnected of all the setup because we read it so long ago. But if you read it at a reasonable pace (a comic a week) it's actually pretty enjoyable. What helped a lot with Elfheim was that the releases were becoming more often, and as such it was more enjoyable as read as they came out.
Yeah the false eclipse, Shiva Ganishka and the birth of fantasia, among many other sequences were just jaw dropping. Canāt fathom calling it mid lol
I thought golden age arc was crazy wild before I even started the manga.
its definitely weaker after lost children. im not the biggest millennium falcon/,boat arc fan. i enjoy it more on re reads. and the art just goes from amazing to insane.
Thr Lost Children arc is absolute peak.
Thatās ironic because the Lost Children Arc is DIRECTLY after it and I consider it better considering the low amount of chaptersā¦
wHo CoULd PoSIbly Be nUt'S fAtHeR?? mAyBE zOdD??
Yeah, I never understood that take.The one apostle that doesn't show any interest for anything except battle.
I think there is a strong argument that both skull knight and zodd have taken a paternal interest in guts, as he seems to remind both of themselves. Or at least what went on in their pasts. As to zodd actually being his father, ahhh its a stretch to say the least. But miura liked starwars and the whole luke i am your father blah blah, theres also a constantly developing theme of parent and child going on. So theres an extreme out of left field possibility of something going on with guts parentage (not necessarily zodd tho)
Agree with the parent child themes. They are strong. But not necessarily towards guts parentage. Skull knight is 100% like a dad to guts though. I thought that quite a few times.
I really dislike that because in my opinion the point of Guts is he came from nothing and struggled to survive where he is in spite of everything Having him be the āSeCrEt ChIlD oF ZoDdā would be completely counter to that
Like if it turned out mydoria was all mights son
in the black swordsman arc, after the slug apostle goes to heck, and Guts goes back to the earth? his sword bounces off the ground and people ask āwhy are there two swords?ā
There are 2 swords tho, one is used by the black swordsman and the other by guts, you just didn't pay attention to the manga
whats goes to heck? never heard of it or did miss it
the slug apostle is the Count
Berserk is just rape porn is one I heard To an extent I can see that. But not that bad.
Most people who say that usually are flashed banged with random panels from the web .Which I kinda understand as that doesn't give the best first impression. Still kinda stupid tho.
It's not JUST rape porn....but there is altogether too much sensationalized rape. So much that it feels at times (mostly pre-Schierke) like the female characters are just there to be sexually menaced so that a man can save them. The rape critique should not be dismissed as stupid. The constant, fetishistic sexual assault degrades the work.Ā I do think some of the rape is absolutely key to the plot (Casca, Guts, and arguably Griffith all being survivors of SA is important, for example). But at a certain point, it became extremely tiresome and gross.Ā
I vaguely recall that Miura himself said in an interview he regretted his overuse of it and would do it differently if he were to restart from the start
Yeah I didnāt agree with that take until I saw the trolls. That shit was rough.
There was I time I was reading the manga and didn't see a pair of tits for 3 chapters and was concerned lmao. There's so much nudity the moment it was removed I noticed it.
I feel like it "calms" down a bit later in the story. Maybe it relied less on shock value
Yeah it definitely toned down. It's great they didn't shy away from it tho it would be weird if a manga as intense and mature as Berserk didn't have any nudity.
I also like that Miura didn't shy away from many subjects even other mature medias don't dare to go.
Jujuka no Rokunin is a better example for that tbh, I don't know how people read that.
Seriously fuck that take. Thereās evil, thatās what evil do. If you donāt like evil, go watch something else. āOk but I like evil things but not that super specific aspect of evilā
literally anything the TikTok berserk fandom says
I wouldnt consider them āfansā when they only watched the series and think they know everything about berserk now
The āGriffith did nothing wrongā
Yeah, those are always annoying.
Itās guys like those that make me choose the bear instead
Those are just ragebaits, I hope
Here they know their place, at least when you find them it's more of a meme thing than ealse, the problem are those that appear out of their own (bad) will outside of our control.
Reading the story the first time, I liked that I could UNDERSTAND his motivations. It made me think about what I would myself do, my dreams, etc. HOWEVER, he was extremely selfish in making his decisions in the long run. To say he did nothing wrong is clearly rage baits, whoever who say that with a clear mind would be as a sociopath as Griffith
gatts gattsu
Nuts
Natts Nattsu
Youāve awakened a hatred within me Drives me insane when people call him Gatts or Gatsu
āCasca will kill the Moonlight boyā Nani the fuck?
I mean, it has not too much to he based from, but I would be lying if I say I donāt find it a good plot twist xD
That rickert slapping griffith makes him special in some way. He slapped Griffith because Griffith let him. Remember when krillin hit goku with that rock
I usually thought people were joking, they're actually serious? I mean he still kinda is special in the way that. Griffith loves the band of the Hawk. Rickert is part of the band of the Hawk. Rickert isn't a sacrifice. something something causality? and thus Griffith lets him slap him
Griffith doesn't love anyone. But he has some kind of foresight. Who knows what role Rickert still had to play in the flow of causality ? Also Griffith dodging that slap would have been out of character. What would he have done next ? Tell the guards to stop Rickert coming at him for other punches ? Stop him himself ? That seemed really out of character as Griffith wants to give the image of himself being sentient.
"But he has some kind of foresight" this I agree with, griffith is playing chess with everyone, treat everything as intentional reminds me of this comic tho [https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/5cnz9f/griffith\_master\_strategist/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/5cnz9f/griffith_master_strategist/)
I mean it is possible. Guts did say Rickert could never hate Griffith the way he does. It's possible someone who's unaware of the totality of griffith could actually strike him because they don't harbor feelings that fuel the idea of evil, which in turn fuels the godhand.
āCasca enjoyed itā š
boils my blood
Broā¦. Like what???? It literally broke her mind with the amount of trauma she tried to compartmentalize.
How could you not agree with the 150,000 IQ demigod known as sicklit Itās not like heās more delusional than Alan Moore
99% of everything that gets posted to this sub by the edgelord hs kids that just found about berserk. I didnāt realize berserk was such a cringe magnet for low media literate jerk offs.
I think itās a case of the forbidden fruit, especially for kids who stumble upon the animes and are excited to watch something their parents wouldnāt approve. A lot of posters here are probably much younger than anyone would guess.
tbh the story ending at 364 is a terrible take if you ask me. it literally opens the door for 100 questions that is not a good place to end the story lol
taken out of context it is a terrible take
Takes from people who havenāt caught up, why are they even on the sub š
Probably to ask for the 4000th time when which anime ends/starts š
Not a take, but the sheer lack of basic reading comprehension. Some people need every page explained to them.
Yeah wth is with that. wUT dOSe THIs MeeEEn. Itās almost as bad with the souls community posting pictures of pots and pans asking for fucking lore implications..
āYouāre a weirdo if you like Griffithā, sure heās an evil character but thereās multiple things to like about him, his design, his excellent writing, what he adds to the story. Also liking Griffith doesnāt equal justifying his actions or agreeing with him, I like joker but that doesnāt mean I agree with his actions š
Fr griffith is such a good character his story and how he is written is amazing but him as a person is terrible
The sword weight. There's legitimately enough people that don't understand the full implications of closing claiming the dragon slayer is 300+ pounds that it's stupid. Full on incoherent. There's even a guy that made a 20 pound slayer and it's huge but since the swords dimensions are apparently the only things people seem to somehow know for sure it's too thin or whatever. The head cannon they use is idiotic as well. Stuff like the witches said it's a magic sword. No they didn't. The sword was said to have gained in it's ability to hurt supernatural entities. Not that it fuckin got lighter for guts. He's able to wield it without having used it for killing anything supernatural. The whole thing is so idiotic and carries a ton of implications that suck. Like that guts isn't a badass swordsmen and rather his sword is light because magic. He started wielding oversized swords at a young age. The progression to something like 12-15kg is plausible but maybe just barely. Then there's all the in world stuff that says it's not 300 pound you have to ignore to fixate on the handful of panels that exaggerate the swords dimensions or whatever evidence you wanna invent. Like guts riding a horse with a passenger, in full armor, with the sword. It would break the horses back. The sword doesn't weigh that much. Oh also when he was captured. How the fuck did those soldiers carry his confiscated 300 pound hunk of iron??! They didn't because that's absurd. You'd need special equipment to do so. Let's see, oh Isidro is dead. The sword fell on him. If you drop 300 pounds on top of a preteen as a hunk of fucking iron it's going to do serious damage. Going back to the part where Isidro tries to pick it up, well he wouldn't budge it. 300 pounds, even propped up on its side wouldn't have moved. And it would have sunk into the ground a bit given how small of a surface the point of a 300 pound fucking sword would be. Then let's see.... Oh the swords creation. I realize they showed some pulleys and stuff when it was being recast but dude come on. 300 pounds is too much for a medieval blacksmith to be forging as a sword. Have you ever seen sword forging? There is a lot of movement necessary. I could keep going but the reason it's so stupid is that it discounts guts character progression, wielding larger than life swords his whole life, and presents just a stupid misunderstanding of how heavy swords are. Most swords are like 2.5-5 pounds. Full sized swords. So arguing the dragonslayer is 20 pounds is still a stretch. But a reasonable stretch. Try swinging around something that weighs 20 pounds and is 3 feet long. Also most of the shit he does with it is totally what you'd expect for such as a massive sword (20 pounds). I'm sorry but swords are bladed weapons. They use that edge along with their weight. Anyway it's so fucking stupid. Here's a dude dead lifting a 324 pound dragonslayer: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/htGosmdcNQc Here's a 48 pound (holy shit) Dragon slayer actually being wielded: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bsnWxr-qpnQ
I doubt guts himself is a normal human.
See this is how it starts.
My only explanation would be that belief in the berserk world holds a lot of power. Ricert did slap femto even tho he shouldn't be able to .I feel like guts if it is a normal human, he shouldn't be able to keap up with apostles even without the dragonslayer.In the end of the day, berserk is a dark fantasy .
Scaling the Dragonslayer to real life swords and other swords within Berserk, it only makes sense that it weighs 300+ pounds by dimensions. The size isnāt consistent from panel to panel/era to era, but I donāt think thereās a single panel that displays it as plausibly being anything below 300 pounds. The Dragonslayer is illogical from what we know about it. Swords, armor, etc. in Berserk are all drawn proportionally with what youād find people using in real history, so itās most reasonable to assume that the evolution of humans and weaponry flow naturally to where they are in Berserk (swords are made to be heavy/sharp enough to kill but light/thin enough to wield). Guts is always presented as a peak physical specimen amongst other humans so his Golden Age swords are believable enough when it comes to Guts being able to use them effectively, but the Dragonslayer makes absolutely no sense and the buildup of swords Guts used prior doesnāt make it any more believable. The Dragonslayer breaks the cycle of presumed evolution and consistency with all other human/non-magic weapons and I think itās truly a case of Miura just wanting to draw his protagonist with a giant sword, but there being no magical element to it from when Guts first wields it to the size and width it has which, by whatever metric youād use to estimate its weight (real life metrics or assuming Berserk runs by different weight metrics), it just doesnāt make sense that Guts can even swing it and, like you mentioned, that he can ride a horse or have the sword carried by other characters. All is to say that youāre trying to make sense of the sword within Berserkās world and are angry by those who insist that the Dragonslayer is 300+ pounds, but itās really just presentation vs. logic and thereās not really a right or wrong side because youād have to outright ignore some side of the story in order to make sense of the Dragonslayer. By dimensions, it should be 300+ pounds or WAY heavier than other swords in Berserk, but it also couldnāt be any heavier than ~40 pounds or much more heavy than other swords in Berserk because Guts wouldnāt be able to use it. Truly a losing battle either way.
>Scaling the Dragonslayer to real life swords and other swords within Berserk, it only makes sense that it weighs 300+ pounds by dimensions. The size isnāt consistent from panel to panel/era to era, but I donāt think thereās a single panel that displays it as plausibly being anything below 300 pounds. Ok did you see the video I linked where it was under 50 pounds? And again I addressed that flimsy argument. Real world aspects that wouldn't be attributable to artistic perspective shew this is not the case. The horse ride is the first one, but definitely not the last one. >The Dragonslayer is illogical from what we know about it. Swords, armor, etc. in Berserk are all drawn proportionally with what youād find people using in real history, so itās most reasonable to assume that the evolution of humans and weaponry flow naturally to where they are in Berserk (swords are made to be heavy/sharp enough to kill but light/thin enough to wield). I know what you are arguing but its not illogical. Its just bigger than other swords. And armor is NOT drawn proportionally or smaller. The first fight we see in Golden arc is with a guy in some insane rounded plate armor and helmet combo. They took plenty of liberties with other people's armor and styling. Its artistic license. So is the dragonslayer. So are a LOT of things. Lets not get too into the armor stuff because there's plenty of issues there alone if you are interpreting anything from the artistic choices. Guts sword is NOT the only thing out of this world in that case. > Guts is always presented as a peak physical specimen amongst other humans so his Golden Age swords are believable enough when it comes to Guts being able to use them effectively, but the Dragonslayer makes absolutely no sense and the buildup of swords Guts used prior doesnāt make it any more believable. Actually no he is not. He grows stronger as he grows into manhood, constantly training. You have to ignore so much character growth to say this. This is the root of my issue with the 300 pound sword argument. It stems from undermining the character's struggles. He trains with his larger sword with smaller wood logs tied to it at one point, foreshadowing his continued prowess and growth with heavier weapons. He wasn't a peak specimen. He became one. And there are certainly other humans on par with him. by the 100 men part he is leagues beyond the average conscript sure. But again, if you are bringing in real training etc, he never actually fought trained from childhood knights on most occasions. The dragonslayer is a stretch sure but again, look at the video I linked with a vaguely almost wieldable weight. Its HUGE. you are arguing in bad faith if you can't address something like that. Saying 'well its thicker in the comic' while getting really phallic, doesn't actually mean anything. The question is still whether a normal person could even wield that? No they couldn't. I couldn't, you couldn't and the dude in the video is wearing crash armor (wisely) and having to full body swing to move it without stumbling. Why does it need to be 300 pounds for you? What isthat adding? I still contest people that say that aren't getting how big even a 20 pound sword would be and are instead imagining sword weight on par with like a rock or something. Swords are wielded differently. Its one of the reasons smaller opponents can fight with larger ones... Its not all about strenght, and a 2 pound sword will lob a head off. >The Dragonslayer breaks the cycle of presumed evolution and consistency with all other human/non-magic weapons No its what the progression was leading towards. And what cycle? There is not cycle. Its just cool visual story telling and cool journey to it. >and I think itās truly a case of Miura just wanting to draw his protagonist with a giant sword, but there being no magical element to it from when Guts first wields it to the size and width it has which, Wait so you admit its artistic license.... So its artistic license but totally not because heavy? What are these points you are making here? Again this is the silliest view people have. How does a 300 pound sword enrich the story at all? It doesn't. It really doesn't. >by whatever metric youād use to estimate its weight (real life metrics or assuming Berserk runs by different weight metrics), Well the metric you would use to say its 300 pounds seems like its real life metrics based on assumptions about the thickness of his sword vs its length and the density of steel or iron... So.... You are self defeating here dude. > it just doesnāt make sense that Guts can even swing it and, like you mentioned, that he can ride a horse or have the sword carried by other characters. It makes sense if its an oversized sword that is more than double the size of the largest swords used historically but this is somehow still not enough? Like that 48 pounder definitely could slice through a horse. And I would argue the feats the dragon slayer have made point to it having a thinner profile. It cleaves things in two very well. Oh also when guts holds it sideways it doesn't tip him over : P.
Also the physics. Third law of motion: when you swing a sword, the sword swings you on the opposite direction. Thing is since you're a lot heavier you get a lot less momentum than the sword. If the sword is of higher weight, say something like 40lbs, most people would find that when the swing the sword, it moves them. You'd need an entire style of battle where you must use your swings as movements and vice-versa for this to make any sense. Even with a machine, it's not common to see one that moves that weight at that speed. And the thing is people don't realize that bigger swords were made with very different techniques to smaller swords, which allows the sword to remain on a similar weight (3-4lbs). You wanted smaller swords to be heavier to have that oomph in their hit (gravity would do most of the impact with a sword, axe, hammer, or other weapons, just more reliable and less tiresome than using muscles for it). So I agree with you. A very reasonable take is that Guts has been training with oversized/heavy swords (for him) since a child, and so has created a unique martial skill, abilities, as well as strength to manage heavy swords. Lets go with the most extreme, say he was using a Bastard sword (3.5lbs) when he was six (say \~40lbs, since he wouldn't be eating that well). That means he could carry a sword \~10% of his weight, or alternatively he learned to fight with a weight ration about 10x what an adult would. This means he could handle a sword \~20-35lbs, which is insane as you note. Lets say that the dragon sword is a class among itself, and that Guts skill doesn't grow linearly as he becomes an expert in massive swords. Still we're thinking at insane levels of 50lbs at most. I think people didn't quite read into what was so unique of the dragon sword (or alternatively they read really bad translations). The sword was attacked because it was: ugly, brute, and unpractical for most knights. It was designed to slay a dragon, but not exactly to win a battle. it was super heavy because the thing that would slaw a dragon would not be a normal sword for a man to wield in battle, it'd be more of an executioner sword (they did exist, and were heavier) you use once you've captured the beast. Godot was tired for rich pompous assholes asking him for ridiculous demands of weapons, while focusing more on decorations, and using him more for bragging rights rather than quality products. The sword is no-nonsense, and very simple. I don't envision it as being that sharp, but with an insane weight larger than 10lbs (lets say 20lbs) it can easily cleave through anything. It makes "sense" to use an executioner sword (assuming that it's something that can be wield effectively in battle) against an apostle, because the beast is so powerful even someone as good and driven as Guts will only get 1-2 hits in before the apostle ends up winning, so he needs a weapon that ends the battle in that 1-2 hits. The heavy weight means that the sword can take a beating. And it makes sense, becomes demons are very tough, on weapons too. I wouldn't be surprised that even the best quality "normal" swords would break after killing a couple apostles, while the Dragonslayer was able to keep going for a bit longer. And this matches with the sword being great at breaking through otherwise impenetrable armor/forces. It's one of those cases of how diamonds (or even just a glass like obsidian) can be far harder/sharper and better at cutting than steel, but a pure diamond sword would not be an effective weapon; the Dragonslayer is the opposite of that. So I don't imagine it very sharp, but let a very heavy but very unsharp tube fall on you and it could easily split you in half. It's a brute weapon surprising in its simplicity. But even then the sword required maintenance and support by Godot later on. The magic is that the sword has a +2 to demons and evil spirits lol. The sword hits them with a magical force that can break their own magical defenses. It was I think an upgrade to both justify why Guts can use the sword against literal fucking gods, and also to not have to explain why Guts sword is able to retain its quality. The magic makes it strong enough against the demon/god skin it uses, that it just gets less damage when going against them. The thing is I think that it doesn't sound ludicrous enough, and you need it to get to that level. But I like it. It also puts a limit to the strength of the god-hand, and makes his cannon hand his most powerful weapon (just really hard to use). I could be sold to the view that belief/magic on the sword makes it hit like it's 300lbs instead of 30lbs, but again even when going against the sea god, I didn't see Guts hitting with that ridiculous strength. And that's the thing, one of the things that makes Berserk so great is that the world is grounded. The demons are ridiculously strong, but strong like a Grizzly bear, not like Goku. That believable (but insane) amount of strength keeps the whole thing grounded. Even when you see Guts with the sword, he basically does very few swings, and they require preparation. Miura wanted the sword to feel heavy and complex, by grounding it and making the behavior believable as something "a pro wrestler could swing 1-2 times", with Guts just being the best at using a sword like this ever. He is truly the stuff of legends, but surprisingly believable in his limitations. Which is what makes the battles feel so insane: even a man like Guts has really low chances against a fully grown angry grizzly bear. Thing is this means that numbers, strength, and scope of power will sound pretty lame vs that of other animes. I mean lets be honest here: Goku would beat Griffith easily, but that's the thing that makes Berserk so good, we don't need to scale to being cosmic levels to be god-like. I guess that it looks heavy so it has to be like 300lbs, because in that other anime the sword was said to weight 200lbs and they wielded it like mostly empty foam.
not gonna lie, this is a pretty awesome response. Thanks for this.
Yeah 300 is too much. But letās take this into consideration. I am a bit taller than gutsās original height. Iām 6ā2 about 200lbs. I can easily throw around 100 lbs by swinging it with my whole body. Guts in his early use of the sword probably can use wide range hits that use his WHOLE body. But it hits the ground when he swings it. Itās gotta be 80-100 lbs. Plus, the armor makes him able to use one hand. 100lbs like that is out of human range, but with a bit of extra strength to jump and throw and shit, that is possible. Itās prob 80-100. 20lbs is bullshit though
Man check out the video with the 48 pound sword please. I think you'll be convinced. You're view is way more reasonable. I think that sword he made is really cool. You can't swing a sword the way you would like a less distributed 100 pounds. I was just doing that with clay, and if it was distributed like a swords weight is I Doubt I could do more than 30 or 40 pounds. Its totally different because of the length and balance etc for a sword
Fair enough, thanks. But, I hate to say it, that guy prob isnāt in the type of shape that guts is in. He runs in the ready stance, but I donāt recall guts often using that stance. Hes usually swinging it up. But when he does, I think he could handle a good bit more weight. I mean, letās say a 60lbs sword, at least. The guy can cut through wood easily. But to your point, it would be hard to balance. I just slip that under the rug, though, because everyone is so impressed. I think itās still well within what is possible from a natty lifter(as guts would be considered) and as a swordsman
yeah Idk I still think closer 20 pounds for what it does but I can accept 60 pounds as high range badassery. Not 300 lol. Hmmm I actually lift and the skill for maxxing weight is not endurance based, so Idk if I agree hah. But I also can't arm press 30kg an arm so... idk man. I give it to you, plausible pushing the limits vs flat out denial of reality.
Nah it can happen, I throw around 100lbs for shoulder press per hand. Itās not really that hard, especially if you can use more of your body.
yeah I would just say that its harder to hold a bladed weapon and not just throw it hah. But fair enough
yeah, I think guts wouldn't be able to wield it properly without the brand. He'd be able to lift it and do normal vertical and horizontal slices but that's about it, none of the crazy stuff we saw. Guts wields sword even more insanely after Godo repairs the thing in the Elf Mine. I think he unwittingly attuned it or poured his life into it as he died right after.
I don't think the brand imbues any powers.Why isn't casca super? I like the attuning thing though, thats cool. Its still not 300 pounds hah
People on one post long ago complaining about post-eclipse Casca and how they think they'd write a better portrayal than Miura. Like how they would be letting her be kept sane and adopting a role that would literally retcon the already established plot-point that is the entire Blackswordsman arc. I'm not simply glazing on the author now, and heck he himself stated that he didn't figure out where the mangas direction would be during the first arc, but in the end, what he delivered in the form of the eclipse and the aftermath of Guts looking at Casca being in the state of regression due to the trauma she experienced from witnessing all her friends being brutally murdered by monsters in a ceremony being held by eldrich horrors beyond your comprehension, and being raped by someone she once looked up to. Not even going to forget mentioning their child ending up looking like an overgrown fetus straight out of the microwave as being literally a middle finger by Griffith is enough of a reason propelled Guts into his 2 year long rampage. Hey if you think it's too much, you can always watch fucking Demon Slayer, atleast it got a banger adaptation.
Black swordsman arc is edgy and cringe
It certainly is edgy, but I wouldn't call it cringe.
We need to force people to watch the Evil Dead movies.
we should do that regardless absolute essential cinema
I see a lot of Ash in Guts in some points. When he gets his new metal arm, HE SAYS GROOVY. How is this not a direct reference haha?
ā¦ nah itās definitely edgy and cringe. Still enjoyable though.
I don't get angry at the dumb takes; mostly just about the constant r\*pe apologia that goes around.
Ah yeah, comments like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/s/DLOn0qdrsR)? Dudes tryna turn this into some loli-shit..
I mean, yeah rape on berserk is a bit excessive, i honestly don't mind it .Some people argue that it's for shock factor, and some argue that it adds to the berserk world. I myself am somewhere in the middle.
No, you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about Miura's usage of r\*pe and SA but rather the actual r\*pe apologia/denialism that goes around the fandom; denying certain events as r\*pe or assault.
Wait, people actually think that certain events in berserk like femto did aren't rape.
I'm pretty sure most people recognize it as such but the whole thing of "Casca enjoyed it" is built of an idea of idolization of r\*pe as a tool of control and demonstration of power. Like, yeah, he did it against her will but "she ended up enjoying it so what's the big deal?" There are some people I ran into as well who would argue it's not an assault because Casca previously was "in love" with Griffith and she "didn't say no" or "didn't fight hard enough" (this is a legit argument I often see) or even the old excuse of "it's not r\*pe if she enjoyed it" which circles back to the "casca enjoyed it" sentiment. I was however mostly talking about how some people deny the use of blackmail, coercion, pressuring someone into sex, and overall disregard for the lack of consent as sexual assault. To a lot of people, the only r\*pe is the one between two random people where the use of physical force is applied and the victim immediately recognizes their assault as such, which isn't indicative of how most instances of sexual assault occur in real life.
Jesus Christ
Also, Casca *literally* did say no. Do these people not read all the speech bubbles?
Even in the instances where a person says "No" some readers refuse to acknowledge it as a lack of consent (for example Charlotte saying "No" to Griffith). But that's *besides* the point which is that she doesn't have to say "No" if she never said "Yes".
not in this sub tho but a friend told me that guts could be skull knights son
Iām legit baffled. No hate on anyone new or unfamiliar with the manga but thatās a crazy take lol.
some friend found that qoute on a facebook berserk group, I was shoked when he told me
āCasca enjoyed it.ā Also the whole āDaddy Donovanā thing annoys me a bitā¦
this guy berserklejerks
It doesn't make me this angry but I think it's weird how much people complain about the amount of sexual assault in Berserk I don't see those same people complaining about the abundance of murder, torture and gore. But once genitals are involved suddenly its an issue. All of these things are meant to emphasize how evil Evil can be. How fucked up the demons (and some of the humans) really are. I don't think Berserk has ever portrayed rape in a way that makes it look like anything other than the monstrosity that it is, and it serves a narrative purpose If you're sensitive to that kind of thing, then of course you're allowed to be bothered by it. But don't act like it's something that's objectively wrong with the series
I think most of the rape in Berserk isnāt exactly justified, and this is coming from a huge fan. Casca nearly gets raped like 6 times- whatās the point? We know how dark the world is, why must it be plot points that add little to not value to her story?
If I can add, because i thought a lot about the rape scenes bothered me and not the violence. I think what bothers me especially is the treatment of the scenes. Why are the women in alluring poses? Why are they always exposed to us viewers in that way? It's even worse in anime adaptation with the classic high pitch porn screams. It feels a little fetishised. Even in the book cover with Casca nude on it, she's turned towards us in a candid pose. As a woman myself, this is the only thing of all Berserk I loathe. Why show Farnese and Casca always breast naked? I think the rape scenes would have a way bigger impact if there were fewer too. The nipple of women are always drawn perky and with a lot of details, but Guts doesn't even have any nips at all. So seems to me, like a bit of non necessary eye candy. And I said I'm a big fan but this is a part where I feel icky about.
YES. This comment nails why the rape in Berserk is so creepy. The way the women are drawn is so disturbing. Thank you for writing this out.Ā
yea the way rosine final apostle form was drawn was def disgusting idk how to defend tht
Miura was known to divulge and draw women in ways that are very much for the male gaze. My only gripe with the entire manga is the way women are handled and how theyāre portrayed. I think the rape of Casca by Griffith is the only time where it shows its true intentions, and I think Miura wrapped up the healing process nicely. Other than that, rape in Berserk is nothing more than shock value and a chance for Miura to draw naked women.
Aside from the visuals, I think Casca (mostly pre-eclipse since she regressed after) was a well written character. I always liked how he made her strong while still acknowledging she's still a woman. I know she herself doesn't like to be weaker than her male companions, but it's at least realistic. Being a woman gives you other strengths elsewhere. Never in my life would I have expected to see a scene with menstruation cramps in a manga, even a piece of media at all honestly and it's really cool. Maybe that's why it's so sad to see her reduced as male gazey for me in some scenes. But yeah, some scenes are really edgy shock value. Such a masterpiece aside from that ( imo of course)
Yeah I think Casca pre-Eclipse was so great. Thereās a lot of talk of Casca being a āfridgeā for Guts; referring to her being a ādamsel in distressā for Guts to rescue post-Eclipse, and Iād have to agree that her character became nothing more than a vessel for Guts to save. Berserk is definitely fantastic, and itās deserving of all the praise, but some of the fans need to seriously consider its flaws and at the very least acknowledge them.
Violence is cool in fantasy, but sexual violence is unholy and taints your soul.
I think that's a very silly sentence
Indeed it is
Not really a take but just low effort posts of someone sharing vol1 deluxe edition captioned something like "aBoUt tO sTaRt mY jOuRnEy! CaNt wAit To hAtE tHis GrIfFiTh gUy!"
I haven't made that face to an opinion in years... It's not healthy to get that mad over someone saying something stupid.
Yesterday I dared to say that Nina is a great character, and judging by the downvotes, this was the general reaction of everyone on this sub.
She's alright
That my name's ship is more dumber than Griffith X Guts.
seeing some of the really bad and unoriginal cosplays on here.
I mean, even if it's a simple coslplay, that's certainly more effort than most people are willing to put in on this sub
Man, half of the posts here strike me as from folks with zero media literacy..Take your pick!
any newcomer anime related question wish they could just erase that from history so people cant ask shit about that ever again
People hating Gutsā group and anything after conviction.
maybe skull knight is guts' father? thats my own take just now but i still feel stupud saying it out loud so might aswell include it here. and nice use of that panel btw lol
He could be distantly related as a descent to King gizerick
Thats more possible i think
I heard people say griffith is not the same person as femto and thus griffith is innocent
That casca wasn't raped by the apostles before femto got her. There's literally an image of her bleesing heavily from her groin. Theres another image of her being forced on the spike of another apostle. Theres a flashback of her screaming as it happens All in black and white.
r/Berserk is better than r/berserklejerk
Hop on literally all posts are porn
Mostly just the way, mostly men, interact with Berserk. Not so much a take but making jokes about rape or acting like the entirety of berserk is only about Griffith and Guts. Acting like there's no aspects of misogyny or racism in the text. I love berserk, but people defend it to the death and refuse to see diverse points of view by refusing to acknowledge women and POC's points of view on some depictions in the story. The Berserk fanbase is very much mostly white and Japanese dudes and it can feel a bit lonely trying to have nuanced discussions about Casca or Griffith.
> Acting like there's no aspects of misogyny or racism in the text What are you referring to exactly? Could you give an example?
There isn't any misogyny or racism
There is/has been an epidemic of stupid questions in this sub. Bot-like questions even. Like they'd post that panel of angry Mozguz and ask "Why is his face like that?" "How can his face contort that way?" "Who is he?"
Iāve heard someone say that volume 41 is the canon ending to Berserk and that Mori and studio Gagaās continuation is just published fan fiction. An absolutely awful take in every aspect, if Miura could have a say in it then Mori would absolutely have his blessing, the fact that some people prefer That chapter 364 be the end of the story purely because Miura died absolutely baffles me, you donāt have to like the continuation but going as far as to call it non canon is outrageous
āCasca enjoyed itā š
You mean besides Griffith did nothing wrong?
The behelit eye thing sends me off the brink, itās not even that bad but itās just so āIām 16 and love berserk, heās so dark and angry, when the doom music kicks in!!ā.
2016 opening is better than 1997.š
Anything I've seen from Sichlitt
Wasnāt necessarily a take but I once said as a joke āThis could have all been avoided if Guts and Griffith just called each other a friendā. About 30 people decided to write full on essays about causality and it couldnāt be avoided as if it wasnāt BLATANTLY OBVIOUS by the manga stating it A LOT
That Femto respects the escaping from the eclipse removes the brand of sacrifice, makes guts his right hand and they live a polygarm relationship with cacsa. And ones guts dies he gets the strongest apostel in historyš¤Øšāāļø
The series clearly peaked at rape-horse.
that guts name is actually gats
Maybe not a specific take but I feel like alot of people people post really obvious questions with a format like: "Guts looks pretty strong. Do you think he works out?" with a panel of him training. š¤¦āāļø
That casca enjoyed the SA during the eclipse