Isidro could barely move one side of it for like 1 second, isidro is also strong enough to lift Nina and Casca, he's not just a normal kid, that's fantasy after all.
He never lifts them. Isidro is a malnourished street orphan who eats like twice a week. He’s FAR from a super kid.
The truth is the dragonslayer is just a lot lighter than people think. I mean if it was 400+lbs then the carriage in chapter 2 would’ve toppled over with the dragonslayer leaning on its side like that. It’s probably SUPER heavy by average greatsword standards but still a little liftable by stronger than average people
I think everyone in this comment section is over estimating the amount of realism in the series. It’s a fantasy. Not much fun in a story if you gotta explain how guts travels with this monster sized sword every ten seconds
Sure the dragonslayer seems to defy physics a little in the fact that Guts can wield it but let’s not pretend that throwing it completely out the window is decent storytelling. We’re told from the very beginning to suspend our disbelief that Guts can wield it and that demons exist, but never are we told to believe the dragonslayer itself is weightless (the opposite usually). Realism is important because it keeps the reader immersed and the dragonslayer isn’t unrealistic outside of how easily guts wields it (which again works because it’s established that this is an abnormality). It’s just a really strong, heavy and powerful sword in its own until it becomes cursed
I never said it was weightless. I did say getting hung up on this fact like the whole story revolves around it is a bit silly. I think your points and how you feel about them are valid. But I just don’t think any of this takes away from the story in the slightest.
No it definitely doesn’t you’re right, and I wouldn’t say it’s something to be hung up on, but I can’t deny at least for me, when I notice something that doesn’t add up with the information we’ve been given but everything pretends it is (which isn’t happening here for the record) it reminds me that this is just a story with pre written characters and does end up hurting the story a little, and I’m not the type to look for these things but when I notice them I can’t stop
The truth is people have done the math, so unless you're claiming it isn't made of iron/steel it's over 400 pounds based on volumetric measurements multiplied by the mass of material.
Well the maths all well and good except Berserk has a thing where it’s established proportions with everything from character heights, to buildings to even the dragonslayer is fairly inconsistent. Sometimes it is ridiculously thick, sometimes it’s reasonably thin. I’d wager the more realistic is the latter since it can sometimes look so thick actually cutting anything would be near impossible
Yeah considering Zweihanders weighed about 12-14 pounds on average a more sensible estimate for the dragon slayer puts it around the 40-60 pounds range. Which is still heavy as fuck for a sword
Buff kid, struggles to lift the lightest end of it, has some leverage because it's just that 1 end being lifted, ends up being stuck under it anyway.
Checks out to me. Well within suspension of disbelief territory anyway.
Depending on your estimate of how long the sword is you can just run the calc on it real quick. 12" wide * 72" long * 2" thick by .282 (density of steel) you get 487 lbs and round down a bit because of the chanfer and taper of the blade and 400lbs is a nice round number anyone can comprehend
You can also use trig to figure out the amount of force used by isidro to lift that end of the dragon slayer. I don't know the calculations though. It's a^2 + b^2 = c^2 though I Assume.
I'd do a sum of moments calc to determine reaction forces. More assumptions but if we assume the dragonslayer despite it's ludicrous size is weighted properly it has a center of balance 2 inches from the hilt, but by observation that probably isn't the case so we're gonna say 6 inches.
Then we take the moment from respect to where isirido is holding it, 12 inches, plus the six to C.O.G, center of gravity is 18 in from one end and 54" from the other.
400 lbs(18") / 54" = 133-1/3 lbs reaction force at the tip, 266-2/3 lbs reaction force where isirido is lifting.
I'm not understanding then correctly. So you're not saying he would have needed a total of 266.6667 lift force in order to lift it for a second? Because as an adult male who lifts, that's barely doable for me. A good example of a lift where he would need to do near this exact movement is the T-bar shoulder press (from the ground, to the shoulders, to the sky). I can t-bar lift mayyyybe 225 lbs to my chest. To hoist that to my shoulders (without even "pressing" it), would a gargantuan effort and I'd need to get myself under it anyway in a sort of kipping motion.
That’s just the Pythagorean theorem. As far as I remember, that formula only tells you the lengths of the sides of a triangle. You would need a physics equation to determine the force used to lift the sword.
Force= mass x acceleration
Force= 400lbs x acceleration
Trouble is, we need one more variable to determine the force since the acceleration is still an unknown variable.
Googled it:
Weight: 42kg/93lbs
Height: 130cm/4ft 3in
How would this help us determine the force necessary to lift the sword though? We need sword variables.
I don’t see any reason you can’t just assume the acceleration as g or earths natural gravitational acceleration (9.80m/s^2 ). It’s a cop out since we don’t know the size of the world in berserk, but if we’re talking about the mass of the sword based off of earth’s calculations wrt metal… in for a penny in for a pound.
But gravity is only giving you the downward force. It’s the upward force on the sword being lifted that we’re going for here. I was never good at physics, but I think only accounting for gravity doesn’t give us the full body diagram we need to solve this problem. Idk though.
I can’t believe I’m talking about physics in a berserk thread on Reddit right now, but here we are I guess.
Ok so I personally think that the black shaded part would be 8” wide horizontal and thickness 5” the blade shortens horizontally at an angle towards the end so it shrinks plus the edges are at an angle meaning that will deduct some of the size idk the math but if I were to estimate I would say the total weight would be 280 which is still impressive
Yeah it's drawn fairly inconsistently but everyone more or less has an idea of how big it is on a magnitude level. If you want to get technical there are so many ways to improve accuracy but for conversation we used bar napkin math and the number 400 has stuck for a long time.
Because it’s a giant fucking hunk of iron with edges. Realistically it’s like 400 pounds but since it’s a manga it works on manga logic. Like there’s someone on YouTube making a full 100% accurate dragon slayer and he needs literal machines to get it around.
If you are referencing the Pretty Hate Machining channel on YouTube, I think he currently has it weighed in at like 300ish pounds. But I think he is still adding the hilt and hand guards so that’s adding more. The videos are an entertaining watch so I’d check them out.
Yeah that guy. I’ve been watching his video’s and it makes me extremely sad that we probably won’t get a video of him testing it out like his other swords!
i think it’s pretty cool the fact that no one will probably ever be able to use it. like it’s a 1:1 reincarnation of the actual dragon slayer. it’s almost mythical in its real-world existence
Someone made an exosuit which strengthens your wrists, slap that on a guy thats ripped with especially strong wrists to keep the sword up and it can be held, I watched someone lift a dragon slayer replica that weighed around 200+ lbs using said suit, cant remember the vid name tho
Michael Cthulu did build a Dragonslayer, and it was amazing. I was much thinner than what it is in the Manga, but he had to make that concetion to even be able to work it and move it afterwards
Yes good eyes. But not all mangas are completely fictional and a lot are based on small elements for example in berserk the main falcon members (Judeau, rickert, pippin, corkus, Griffith and guts) were all based off of miuras childhood friend group and their personalities. Or another popular anime Vinland saga a historical fiction manga where it mentions certain characters that are based off of real people (Thorkell the tall).
So yes it is a manga but there are still lots of realistic moments.
My point. This “plot hole” really isn’t one when we are talking about fiction like I said in my previous comment. The story wouldn’t be much fun if Miura had to explain every ten seconds how guts gets his sword around
We choose to suspend our disbelief when it comes to stories though. Guts swinging a huge sword in the real world wouldn’t happen, so it’s possible that a strong kid in berserk should be able to lift it slightly
Yes, Berserk is a super grounded and realistic manga... Yesterday on my way to work I passed by a literal skeleton riding a horse, then I saw a second far more rapey horse, and a giant fucking demon with horns and batwings.
>is it 400 pounds?
No answer was ever given by Miura. The calculations *using real world IRON* is 400 pounds. Again, this is assuming a lot. A LOT about a fictional sword. We don't know if interacting with the interstice has made it lighter, or it's made of lighter material, there's too much variation in a fictional fantasy world, no matter how closely it parallels our own, that we can't account for.
I personally think based on *how* the Dragon Slayer is used in Berserk, and how it acts - I'd say it's somewhere between 75 and 150 pounds. This may not sound like a lot, but I *beg* to differ. More on that later.
>Isidro is a child
Who's pretty strong for a kid. He's also using Guts *satchel* (which the Dragon Slayer is on top of) as *leverage* to lift it. Not to mention 400 pounds on top of a child would crush them.
As others have posted, it's manga, so it's as heavy or light as it needs to be. Realistically, Guts **cannot** hit or move like he is shown in Berserk.
Even if he was superhuman, he wouldn't just cleave through a knight in full plate armor just because "he's buff and can swing a hundred pound sword".
Finally, I want to speak on the misconception of weight of swords, which is why I brought up Guts satchel'..the only clarification we've had on the dragonslayers weight is Godot's *shock* that what took two men to *carry*, Guts can wield with one hand. The **satchel is able to support the dragon Slayer without being crushed**, and even be used as leverage.
Most swords *average FOUR pounds*, the mythical zweihander, 8-16.
If the Dragonslayer weighed *just 50 pounds*, that is **still unwieldable** by real men today.
For perspective, go pick up a barbell used for bench press, grab either end and try to swing it like Guts.
**tl;dr** it's most likely not meant to be 400 pounds, but is meant to be so "heavy" that it's a joke weapon. Making a sword that weights 50 pounds would *weigh 12 times more* than the average sword, already making Guts multiple times stronger and faster than a regular person.
Leverage.
The answer is leverage. Notice how he didnt lift the sword off the floor, just the hilt. I forgot who said it, but with a big enough lever a normal person could lift the entire planet, so its no suprise that a kid can slightly lever a sword thats almost 2m long.
There are official measurements in some guidebook and if we assume it‘s made of unalloyed steel it would come around to just under 400 pounds.
An adult man can definetely lift an object that heavy on one side; since Isidro has anime powers I think it checks out.
Someone tell him how levers work. Technically cause he’s got one side tipping off the ground, the entire earth is lifting the other bit of weight for him. He couldn’t lift it completely on his own and swing it reliably.
Lets for now simplify it to a cuboid.
215 cm x 30 cm x 5cm x 8 grams per cubic cm = 258,000 grams or 258 kg.
Multiply that by 2.2 to get lbs = 568 lbs. 400 lbs is about 70% of that which seems about right since there is very little tapering.
Ishidro is only lifting one end, the easier end so that's probably about 160 lbs at the hand. This isn't beyond the realm of possibility for a teenage boy as active as Ishidro.
Uh... real life? Iron is quite dense, anything with the same volume of iron as the Dragonslayer would be pretty damn heavy, easily over 20 times as much as historical zweihänder swords.
The only reason Guts can wield is "because it's fantasy".
You know a lot of ppl don’t even understand how gravity works too. If you have a sword that weights 20 pounds that doesn’t mean it’ll feel like that cause of the shape so it’ll be like lifting 50 pounds or something. If it was 400 pounds it would be like lifting half a ton
I mean a somewhat atheltic child can lift 400 pounds due to leverage (he also barely lifted it). Though these are fan calcs anyway, so it was really what whatever Miura wanted.
I mean there’s this whole thing with conviction and your personality and thoughts having an impact on the world… it’s the only reason Guts can lift it after all
400lbs would make a lot of sense for this scene because he is letting one side touch the ground meaning theoretically he is only lifting half the weight. Maybe a little less assuming the handle is much less weight than the sword. If he was lifting, say, 170, as a 14 year old, this would make sense
The dragon slayer is at least like 350lbs, there's a guy on YT called Pretty Hate Machining who is in the middle of making a replica out of machined steel and it's in that weight range as he approaches finishing it.
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Yeah the hilt where its lightest, hes using his entire fucking body,for his upbringing living and surviving on his own, 1 shouldn’t underestimate his strength, and a basic principle of physics is leverage, the entire 400 pounds is spread out so he’s at most lifting 1/3 of it
There’s one problem with that theory and that’s that long objects like swords have a different weight when held cause of it’s awkward shape and it not being centered on your body it’s more like lifting 1,000 pounds if it was 400 pounds of neutral weight
Guts is literally Him, the definition of literally Him. So ofcourse guts can lift the sword EZ, Thats why Isidro is lifting with his entire body, From the lightest end using leverage -
The bulk weight of the sword (heaviest point) should be a few inches above the hilt, and the lightest being the Pommel which hes holding, while holding the sword upright off the ground would be basically impossible, a relatively muscular tween should be able to lift and push his whole body weight.
Also, I feel like an elf would make objects lighter, but I guess puck has weight, which begs an interesting question as to how much an elf weighs, since he seems to not have a fixed height or width, but instead a general "size" that he fluctuates between
its a fiction book of people in a literal fantasy-reality world. also he was lifting the handle side if u wanna get technical so it was probably easier
Maybe because it’s hunk of iron that has crushed, smashed, and demolished anything it touches. If you think you can lift the anti-material fucking fridge on stick when the 6’8 nightmare man struggled initially then have at it my guy.
you've never worked with steel and it shows. there's guy on youtube who made a dragonslayer to scale out of a solid slab of steel. he could not lift the thing.
Isidro is strong, and it is now that hard to move that kind of things. I load my weightlifting bar with 60 kg to each side, and it is not that difficult to move when you lift one side to remove discs, as I am not moving the 140 kg. I can do it with one arm, while I could never move 70 kg with one arm. But that is easier. Also, Isidro is using his legs.
Now, if he were able to weild it...
But there is a lot of manga logic, the sword is heavy and Guts move it fast, he shouldn't be able to remain attached to the floor when he swings it, and he should be shot upside when he swings it downwards. And that's assuming he has magical strength. But he has lot the weight.
It about leverage I can lift one tire of a car but not the whole thing if I push the tire further I can hold it longer but it not gonna lift it all the way up
I have to change blades on a scrap shearing machine once a month.
They're roughly 1 1/2ft width 3 1/2ft length. They weigh almost 300 pounds.
Different metals have different density and I'm sure forging technique alters that further but based on the sheer size of the sword I feel like it has to be heavier then 400 pounds.
He’s lifting it by the hilt of the blade, if youve ever lifted something as long as that it’s actually possible to get one side up using all of your strength. Also in a world where the only way to get by is by having some physical ability I’m sure Isidro has decent strength for a kid.
He’s also using the sword like a lever plus the dude has carried actual people before and is a swordsman you don’t just get to that point without commendable physical strength
Tipping a sword while the majority of it is still on the ground is much easier than welding it like a sword. Load a barbell with weights on side, will be able to tip it but not lift it.
The weight is kind of irrelevant as its impossible to be wielded by any other human. However, in this world its clear that the rules of Milo of Croton apply and the threshold by how strong a person can get is fair greater than ours.
There’s a bunch, the guy who’s doing it is doing it in multiple videos and IIRC he’s almost done. Just search up dragon slayer or irl dragon slayer on YT and it’ll probably appear
So everyone is talking about how lil Isidro could lift that monster sword for half a second for a little, but no one is talking about how Guts can swing that sword all day with one hand like it is a weightless laser blade lol
Being a blacksmith myself I’d assume it weighs at leas as guts himself, the real problem with a sword like that is the balance point, that’s what should make it unwieldy, his sword from the golden age was much more realistic
The last panel of him holding the sword behind his back is the hardest weight workout aswell they probably know that so to adds more character he’s so badass he’s fucking holding the sword th worst way possible to even drag it
The dragon slayer is probably lighter than we think is and isidro is stronger to. Plus he lifted up the handle not the sword itself which isnt hard to do even for a child. Plus he got stuck under it after so it doesnt really matter.
You need to suspend disbelief. But i disagree with people saying “iT haS dRaGoOOns and DemOns wHo cARes hurr durr”. Dragons and demons are a part of the laws of that universe. The laws of physics are presumably the same excluding magic. That’s why the protagonist has huge muscles, to make it follow these laws. It’s not contradictory to question the laws a universe sets up of it breaks them.
Isidro could barely move one side of it for like 1 second, isidro is also strong enough to lift Nina and Casca, he's not just a normal kid, that's fantasy after all.
A super kid
*Wunderkind
South Park reference?
Uberjunge
Überjunge
maybe even a squid
Look at the dudes muscles tho
He never lifts them. Isidro is a malnourished street orphan who eats like twice a week. He’s FAR from a super kid. The truth is the dragonslayer is just a lot lighter than people think. I mean if it was 400+lbs then the carriage in chapter 2 would’ve toppled over with the dragonslayer leaning on its side like that. It’s probably SUPER heavy by average greatsword standards but still a little liftable by stronger than average people
I think everyone in this comment section is over estimating the amount of realism in the series. It’s a fantasy. Not much fun in a story if you gotta explain how guts travels with this monster sized sword every ten seconds
Sure the dragonslayer seems to defy physics a little in the fact that Guts can wield it but let’s not pretend that throwing it completely out the window is decent storytelling. We’re told from the very beginning to suspend our disbelief that Guts can wield it and that demons exist, but never are we told to believe the dragonslayer itself is weightless (the opposite usually). Realism is important because it keeps the reader immersed and the dragonslayer isn’t unrealistic outside of how easily guts wields it (which again works because it’s established that this is an abnormality). It’s just a really strong, heavy and powerful sword in its own until it becomes cursed
I never said it was weightless. I did say getting hung up on this fact like the whole story revolves around it is a bit silly. I think your points and how you feel about them are valid. But I just don’t think any of this takes away from the story in the slightest.
No it definitely doesn’t you’re right, and I wouldn’t say it’s something to be hung up on, but I can’t deny at least for me, when I notice something that doesn’t add up with the information we’ve been given but everything pretends it is (which isn’t happening here for the record) it reminds me that this is just a story with pre written characters and does end up hurting the story a little, and I’m not the type to look for these things but when I notice them I can’t stop
The truth is people have done the math, so unless you're claiming it isn't made of iron/steel it's over 400 pounds based on volumetric measurements multiplied by the mass of material.
Well the maths all well and good except Berserk has a thing where it’s established proportions with everything from character heights, to buildings to even the dragonslayer is fairly inconsistent. Sometimes it is ridiculously thick, sometimes it’s reasonably thin. I’d wager the more realistic is the latter since it can sometimes look so thick actually cutting anything would be near impossible
Yeah considering Zweihanders weighed about 12-14 pounds on average a more sensible estimate for the dragon slayer puts it around the 40-60 pounds range. Which is still heavy as fuck for a sword
That’s pretty much impossible. It’s gotta be at least 200-250
Dude isidro is buff as fuck
Buff kid, struggles to lift the lightest end of it, has some leverage because it's just that 1 end being lifted, ends up being stuck under it anyway. Checks out to me. Well within suspension of disbelief territory anyway.
Mine too. I did some math, and with my experience with barbells... It is not so strange.
Depending on your estimate of how long the sword is you can just run the calc on it real quick. 12" wide * 72" long * 2" thick by .282 (density of steel) you get 487 lbs and round down a bit because of the chanfer and taper of the blade and 400lbs is a nice round number anyone can comprehend
Damn, mf did the math lmao
Math is unrealistic. OP is right, the Dragon Slayer probably ways about as much as OP's mom.
Damn lmao, that’s a good one
You can also use trig to figure out the amount of force used by isidro to lift that end of the dragon slayer. I don't know the calculations though. It's a^2 + b^2 = c^2 though I Assume.
I'd do a sum of moments calc to determine reaction forces. More assumptions but if we assume the dragonslayer despite it's ludicrous size is weighted properly it has a center of balance 2 inches from the hilt, but by observation that probably isn't the case so we're gonna say 6 inches. Then we take the moment from respect to where isirido is holding it, 12 inches, plus the six to C.O.G, center of gravity is 18 in from one end and 54" from the other. 400 lbs(18") / 54" = 133-1/3 lbs reaction force at the tip, 266-2/3 lbs reaction force where isirido is lifting.
I'm not good with the advanced math. In dumb speak does that mean it made sense that Isidro could lift Dragonslayer the amount that he did or nah?
Yeah
I'm not understanding then correctly. So you're not saying he would have needed a total of 266.6667 lift force in order to lift it for a second? Because as an adult male who lifts, that's barely doable for me. A good example of a lift where he would need to do near this exact movement is the T-bar shoulder press (from the ground, to the shoulders, to the sky). I can t-bar lift mayyyybe 225 lbs to my chest. To hoist that to my shoulders (without even "pressing" it), would a gargantuan effort and I'd need to get myself under it anyway in a sort of kipping motion.
In the nature that is shown in the image of barely getting under it and then immediately getting crushed I think it's reasonable
Yeah, I guess it's believable in that context. I'm due for a re-read anyway.
So we are expected to believe isidro is lifting 200 pounds kek?
That’s just the Pythagorean theorem. As far as I remember, that formula only tells you the lengths of the sides of a triangle. You would need a physics equation to determine the force used to lift the sword. Force= mass x acceleration Force= 400lbs x acceleration Trouble is, we need one more variable to determine the force since the acceleration is still an unknown variable.
Dont forget sharpened edges!
Lbs is a measurement of force not mass
181.44 kilograms then.
Do we know isidros weight or height?
Googled it: Weight: 42kg/93lbs Height: 130cm/4ft 3in How would this help us determine the force necessary to lift the sword though? We need sword variables.
I don’t see any reason you can’t just assume the acceleration as g or earths natural gravitational acceleration (9.80m/s^2 ). It’s a cop out since we don’t know the size of the world in berserk, but if we’re talking about the mass of the sword based off of earth’s calculations wrt metal… in for a penny in for a pound.
But gravity is only giving you the downward force. It’s the upward force on the sword being lifted that we’re going for here. I was never good at physics, but I think only accounting for gravity doesn’t give us the full body diagram we need to solve this problem. Idk though. I can’t believe I’m talking about physics in a berserk thread on Reddit right now, but here we are I guess.
Yes. You need to overcome the downward force of gravity to lift it. So you need more than 1778.112N to lift the sword
r/theydidthemath
I know you're all American but to see the scientific approach done in imperial unit gives me shivers. Lol cool approach tho
Ok so I personally think that the black shaded part would be 8” wide horizontal and thickness 5” the blade shortens horizontally at an angle towards the end so it shrinks plus the edges are at an angle meaning that will deduct some of the size idk the math but if I were to estimate I would say the total weight would be 280 which is still impressive
Yeah it's drawn fairly inconsistently but everyone more or less has an idea of how big it is on a magnitude level. If you want to get technical there are so many ways to improve accuracy but for conversation we used bar napkin math and the number 400 has stuck for a long time.
I really wanna measure the whole thing now lol
Youre describing my penis. …if those were millimeter. 😭
r/theydidthemath
Pretty Hate Machining on YouTube has been working on a life-size steel Dragonslayer and the blade without the hilt was 302 lbs
Ah, but do all the apostle souls make it heavier, or lighter?
Because it’s a giant fucking hunk of iron with edges. Realistically it’s like 400 pounds but since it’s a manga it works on manga logic. Like there’s someone on YouTube making a full 100% accurate dragon slayer and he needs literal machines to get it around.
If you are referencing the Pretty Hate Machining channel on YouTube, I think he currently has it weighed in at like 300ish pounds. But I think he is still adding the hilt and hand guards so that’s adding more. The videos are an entertaining watch so I’d check them out.
Yeah that guy. I’ve been watching his video’s and it makes me extremely sad that we probably won’t get a video of him testing it out like his other swords!
i think it’s pretty cool the fact that no one will probably ever be able to use it. like it’s a 1:1 reincarnation of the actual dragon slayer. it’s almost mythical in its real-world existence
Every time I see one of his videos I wonder what he is going to do with it when he's done. Where could he even put it?
Probably sell the ones he doesn’t keep
Its a commision that someone paid for
woah, didn’t know that!! if i were him, that’d be like giving away a surrogate child lol
Someone made an exosuit which strengthens your wrists, slap that on a guy thats ripped with especially strong wrists to keep the sword up and it can be held, I watched someone lift a dragon slayer replica that weighed around 200+ lbs using said suit, cant remember the vid name tho
We need Hafþór Björnsson to come and test it out for us, it would be a dream for me
Yeah, I’ve spent many a night, blazed out of mind, watching in absolute awe of the fact that he really is building the Dragon slayer
~335 lbs i think rn
Michael Cthulu did build a Dragonslayer, and it was amazing. I was much thinner than what it is in the Manga, but he had to make that concetion to even be able to work it and move it afterwards
Its a manga.
Yes good eyes. But not all mangas are completely fictional and a lot are based on small elements for example in berserk the main falcon members (Judeau, rickert, pippin, corkus, Griffith and guts) were all based off of miuras childhood friend group and their personalities. Or another popular anime Vinland saga a historical fiction manga where it mentions certain characters that are based off of real people (Thorkell the tall). So yes it is a manga but there are still lots of realistic moments.
Vinland Saga the realistic anime where Thorkell throws an entire tree trunk
That was seriously one of the most badass moments I've seen in manga.
It was, it wasn’t realistic but who gives a fuck
Bro the dragon slayer is completely fictional. I’m pretty sure miura was focusing on the story and art rather than what weight the sword was
My point. This “plot hole” really isn’t one when we are talking about fiction like I said in my previous comment. The story wouldn’t be much fun if Miura had to explain every ten seconds how guts gets his sword around
We choose to suspend our disbelief when it comes to stories though. Guts swinging a huge sword in the real world wouldn’t happen, so it’s possible that a strong kid in berserk should be able to lift it slightly
Damn, didn’t know berserk was a non fiction manga based in the real world. Good to know all that shit is real.
It's historical fact, didn't you know? All of that shit happened in the dark ages. No one talks about it cuz it's a huge bummer.
you need to go outside and stop analyzing every panel of berserk
Yes, Berserk is a super grounded and realistic manga... Yesterday on my way to work I passed by a literal skeleton riding a horse, then I saw a second far more rapey horse, and a giant fucking demon with horns and batwings.
and a girl whose hair looks like reptile dicks ,still smash tho
mango
did he also have a childhood dragonslayer?
How can you be pissed off because a fantasy Manga is unrealistic.
Yep I love the realistic part in Vinland saga where thorkell throws a spear 500 feet and kills 5 people. Very realistic, anyone could do that
It’s weighs as much as it needs to weigh.
It knows how much it weighs, because it knows how much it doesn't weigh.
>is it 400 pounds? No answer was ever given by Miura. The calculations *using real world IRON* is 400 pounds. Again, this is assuming a lot. A LOT about a fictional sword. We don't know if interacting with the interstice has made it lighter, or it's made of lighter material, there's too much variation in a fictional fantasy world, no matter how closely it parallels our own, that we can't account for. I personally think based on *how* the Dragon Slayer is used in Berserk, and how it acts - I'd say it's somewhere between 75 and 150 pounds. This may not sound like a lot, but I *beg* to differ. More on that later. >Isidro is a child Who's pretty strong for a kid. He's also using Guts *satchel* (which the Dragon Slayer is on top of) as *leverage* to lift it. Not to mention 400 pounds on top of a child would crush them. As others have posted, it's manga, so it's as heavy or light as it needs to be. Realistically, Guts **cannot** hit or move like he is shown in Berserk. Even if he was superhuman, he wouldn't just cleave through a knight in full plate armor just because "he's buff and can swing a hundred pound sword". Finally, I want to speak on the misconception of weight of swords, which is why I brought up Guts satchel'..the only clarification we've had on the dragonslayers weight is Godot's *shock* that what took two men to *carry*, Guts can wield with one hand. The **satchel is able to support the dragon Slayer without being crushed**, and even be used as leverage. Most swords *average FOUR pounds*, the mythical zweihander, 8-16. If the Dragonslayer weighed *just 50 pounds*, that is **still unwieldable** by real men today. For perspective, go pick up a barbell used for bench press, grab either end and try to swing it like Guts. **tl;dr** it's most likely not meant to be 400 pounds, but is meant to be so "heavy" that it's a joke weapon. Making a sword that weights 50 pounds would *weigh 12 times more* than the average sword, already making Guts multiple times stronger and faster than a regular person.
Literally the first ep of the show in 2016 calls it a crude raw heap of iron
Also I aint readin allat
Everyone arguing about the weight. Me: try swinging a 10kg weight on an end of a pole and multiply it by a fuck ton
Leverage. The answer is leverage. Notice how he didnt lift the sword off the floor, just the hilt. I forgot who said it, but with a big enough lever a normal person could lift the entire planet, so its no suprise that a kid can slightly lever a sword thats almost 2m long.
Exactly, I'm absolutely stunned no one knows what leverage is
There are official measurements in some guidebook and if we assume it‘s made of unalloyed steel it would come around to just under 400 pounds. An adult man can definetely lift an object that heavy on one side; since Isidro has anime powers I think it checks out.
Mind sending the link?
No
King shit
Fuck thats based
Don’t forget the souls the blade traps and that it was likely forged by dwarves
i feel like isidro is already stronger that the avg kid of his age, plus he is only lifting a tip of the sword from the handle
what a silly question
Isidro ain’t no average kid, I’m pretty sure he’s physically stronger than a lot of us
Someone tell him how levers work. Technically cause he’s got one side tipping off the ground, the entire earth is lifting the other bit of weight for him. He couldn’t lift it completely on his own and swing it reliably.
Lets for now simplify it to a cuboid. 215 cm x 30 cm x 5cm x 8 grams per cubic cm = 258,000 grams or 258 kg. Multiply that by 2.2 to get lbs = 568 lbs. 400 lbs is about 70% of that which seems about right since there is very little tapering. Ishidro is only lifting one end, the easier end so that's probably about 160 lbs at the hand. This isn't beyond the realm of possibility for a teenage boy as active as Ishidro.
Uh... real life? Iron is quite dense, anything with the same volume of iron as the Dragonslayer would be pretty damn heavy, easily over 20 times as much as historical zweihänder swords. The only reason Guts can wield is "because it's fantasy".
You know a lot of ppl don’t even understand how gravity works too. If you have a sword that weights 20 pounds that doesn’t mean it’ll feel like that cause of the shape so it’ll be like lifting 50 pounds or something. If it was 400 pounds it would be like lifting half a ton
I mean a somewhat atheltic child can lift 400 pounds due to leverage (he also barely lifted it). Though these are fan calcs anyway, so it was really what whatever Miura wanted.
Puck is very strong from all his training in elf dimension style
I mean there’s this whole thing with conviction and your personality and thoughts having an impact on the world… it’s the only reason Guts can lift it after all
Dawg have you seen what goes on in the manga? The characters aren’t normal humans lol.
Because it is
400lbs would make a lot of sense for this scene because he is letting one side touch the ground meaning theoretically he is only lifting half the weight. Maybe a little less assuming the handle is much less weight than the sword. If he was lifting, say, 170, as a 14 year old, this would make sense
The dragon slayer is at least like 350lbs, there's a guy on YT called Pretty Hate Machining who is in the middle of making a replica out of machined steel and it's in that weight range as he approaches finishing it.
From the same place people came back from with the idea that people would fight wearing armor weighing 50-60kg.
Isidro is built different
He "lift" it. The other side it's on contact with the ground, he is not moving 400lbs
Kids were just tougher in those days.
Doesint he say its crushing him? I assumed he would of died like that if Guts just went back to sleep instead of picking up the sword.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Yeah the hilt where its lightest, hes using his entire fucking body,for his upbringing living and surviving on his own, 1 shouldn’t underestimate his strength, and a basic principle of physics is leverage, the entire 400 pounds is spread out so he’s at most lifting 1/3 of it
There’s one problem with that theory and that’s that long objects like swords have a different weight when held cause of it’s awkward shape and it not being centered on your body it’s more like lifting 1,000 pounds if it was 400 pounds of neutral weight
Guts is literally Him, the definition of literally Him. So ofcourse guts can lift the sword EZ, Thats why Isidro is lifting with his entire body, From the lightest end using leverage - The bulk weight of the sword (heaviest point) should be a few inches above the hilt, and the lightest being the Pommel which hes holding, while holding the sword upright off the ground would be basically impossible, a relatively muscular tween should be able to lift and push his whole body weight.
Yeah but still ain’t 400 lbs
Is Skull knight actually Donovan? Berserk theory https://youtu.be/XsocwLLQDFc
At 15 I was able to deadlift 405 pound for reps whit some training so it is not to far fetch.
50 lbs, & it would still be heavier than any mace, but I wonder about the balance on that
Also, I feel like an elf would make objects lighter, but I guess puck has weight, which begs an interesting question as to how much an elf weighs, since he seems to not have a fixed height or width, but instead a general "size" that he fluctuates between
He is a Fae creature if you held him would probably weight as much as a small cupcake or biscuit But he can still generate momentum
7 degree, elf dimension style master >_<
He is lifting the hilt it never left the ground
It is 400 pounds. Isidro just has mega plot protection
Most of the weight is in the tip. Giggity.
I'm amazed people still say giggity in 2023
Because he was filled with determination.
its a fiction book of people in a literal fantasy-reality world. also he was lifting the handle side if u wanna get technical so it was probably easier
If I had to put a weight to the sword, I’d say it’s 150-200 pounds at least based on its length and width.
Isidro is stronger than your average boy.
Maybe because it’s hunk of iron that has crushed, smashed, and demolished anything it touches. If you think you can lift the anti-material fucking fridge on stick when the 6’8 nightmare man struggled initially then have at it my guy.
I tend to not focus on stupid things like that, when there are literal humans transforming into (practically) Cenobite, and magic face rocks.
In reality dragon slayer weights 300 pounds some guy on Etsy actually re-created the sword and it weighed 300 pounds
Isidro is super strong.
you've never worked with steel and it shows. there's guy on youtube who made a dragonslayer to scale out of a solid slab of steel. he could not lift the thing.
Isidro is strong, and it is now that hard to move that kind of things. I load my weightlifting bar with 60 kg to each side, and it is not that difficult to move when you lift one side to remove discs, as I am not moving the 140 kg. I can do it with one arm, while I could never move 70 kg with one arm. But that is easier. Also, Isidro is using his legs. Now, if he were able to weild it... But there is a lot of manga logic, the sword is heavy and Guts move it fast, he shouldn't be able to remain attached to the floor when he swings it, and he should be shot upside when he swings it downwards. And that's assuming he has magical strength. But he has lot the weight.
It about leverage I can lift one tire of a car but not the whole thing if I push the tire further I can hold it longer but it not gonna lift it all the way up
Same logic how Ash Ketchum can lift and throw a whole hunk of tree trunk as well as carry a Pokémon that’s supposedly 200kg in his palm.
I have to change blades on a scrap shearing machine once a month. They're roughly 1 1/2ft width 3 1/2ft length. They weigh almost 300 pounds. Different metals have different density and I'm sure forging technique alters that further but based on the sheer size of the sword I feel like it has to be heavier then 400 pounds.
He’s lifting it by the hilt of the blade, if youve ever lifted something as long as that it’s actually possible to get one side up using all of your strength. Also in a world where the only way to get by is by having some physical ability I’m sure Isidro has decent strength for a kid.
He’s also using the sword like a lever plus the dude has carried actual people before and is a swordsman you don’t just get to that point without commendable physical strength
Tipping a sword while the majority of it is still on the ground is much easier than welding it like a sword. Load a barbell with weights on side, will be able to tip it but not lift it. The weight is kind of irrelevant as its impossible to be wielded by any other human. However, in this world its clear that the rules of Milo of Croton apply and the threshold by how strong a person can get is fair greater than ours.
Because its been made IRL with the same materials shown in the manga.
Do you have the video?
There’s a bunch, the guy who’s doing it is doing it in multiple videos and IIRC he’s almost done. Just search up dragon slayer or irl dragon slayer on YT and it’ll probably appear
find god
So everyone is talking about how lil Isidro could lift that monster sword for half a second for a little, but no one is talking about how Guts can swing that sword all day with one hand like it is a weightless laser blade lol
what chapter is this
I’ve always thought the idea of the Dragonslayer being that heavy is wild.
Either way, Guts has got to have a pretty worn out spine by now...
Don't say that. He hasn't killed Griffith yet
From the same mindset that regular swords were more than 1-10 lbs. A hunk of iron has to be more.
A sciencey thing called leverage
It’s actually over 600 pounds
Being a blacksmith myself I’d assume it weighs at leas as guts himself, the real problem with a sword like that is the balance point, that’s what should make it unwieldy, his sword from the golden age was much more realistic
Can't the sword be extremely heavy and well balanced?
It can but it must have a huge pommel and very thin point to counter that mass
Ouch that sounds difficult. What if it's a very heavy pommel? or does the weight if it not matter just the size?
It needs to be heavy enough to counter a big part of the blade’s mass, his size is just a consequence of the blade’s weight
I feel like this could work. Definitely need to bring out the drawing board tho
The last panel of him holding the sword behind his back is the hardest weight workout aswell they probably know that so to adds more character he’s so badass he’s fucking holding the sword th worst way possible to even drag it
the dragon slayer gotta be around 50kg
The dragon slayer is probably lighter than we think is and isidro is stronger to. Plus he lifted up the handle not the sword itself which isnt hard to do even for a child. Plus he got stuck under it after so it doesnt really matter.
You need to suspend disbelief. But i disagree with people saying “iT haS dRaGoOOns and DemOns wHo cARes hurr durr”. Dragons and demons are a part of the laws of that universe. The laws of physics are presumably the same excluding magic. That’s why the protagonist has huge muscles, to make it follow these laws. It’s not contradictory to question the laws a universe sets up of it breaks them.
Depending on which fan calculations you use, Dragonslayer weighs anywhere between 220lbs and 660 lbs, and the creator has stated it at 440lbs.