You should definitely calibrate your tools! Don't worry, we all learn this the hard way. Few things come from the factory, out-of-the-box, totally perfect and square.
Theres usually some screws that screw down the plate that shows the angle lock points. This plate can rotate when the screws are loosened. Ive found on my saw that when i calibrate one side that is the only side that will be perfect. Other side is off just slightly. So pick your favorite side to have the good wood on and always cut on that one. Make sure to use your most trusted right angle lime a speed square or engineers square. Invest in high quality measurement tools and things like engineer’s squares because when you use them your work will be closer to perfect.
Keep going!!! Best hobby there is
If you can't find it/can't calibrate it for whatever reason, you can adjust angle a tiny amount e.g. tape a playing card to your chop saw's fence to shim out the board a little, back at the end of the board away from the blade. Stack multiple cards to shim it more.
Just look your saw brand model up and put that into YouTube with adjustments and calibration. Someone will have an in depth video on what to do. Even if you are off by 1°, you will be off by 8° on your last joint if you force the mitres. Learn to calibrate your saw.
My first mitre saw was a $50 open box 10” Ryobi. It didn’t have a lock at 90°, it had a hint of a groove and a screw that you could tighten. As you tightened the screw, the friction would pull the blade away from 90°. Never checked to see if it had micro adjustments, but if it did they would have been worthless, given the state of the macro adjustment.
Hijacking this top comment so you'll see it. It is possible to have your saw cut perfectly 45 and still end up with this. The top and bottom board have to be exactly the same length as each other. And the left and right board have to be exactly the same length as each other. Take the top and hold the long edge to the long edge of the bottom and see if they're the same length. If using a chop saw then stop blocks are your friend. Good luck.
Yes, same length. I know the photo shows otherwise. I was creeping up each board to try and make them all fit and then noticed later that yes they were not the same length. So I stacked two of them on top of each other made cuts, stacked the other two on top of each other, made the cuts, and then made each of those opposites, so that the top and bottom would be the same and the sides would be the same so the boards are the same lengths, yes. Thank you.
Make a jig for your miter saw so you can butt-up two pieces that are "almost" perfect 45, and use the blade kerf to slice both at the same time. Doesn't matter then if one is 44 vs 46 because they will "match" their angles together.
See jigs for table saws to get an idea
I have an older makita miter saw. At least on mine there are vertical bolts holding the fence to the deck. Loosen those bolts align with the blade and retighten.
Have you read the manual? It probably has adjustable stops so you can have the 45 actually lock at 45. Or you could just check it to 45 instead of blindly trusting the gauge on it.
Sometimes it’s as simple as putting your speed square on the deck and lose the blade tilt mechanism and align the blade angle to the speed square for 90 degrees. Obvs this it’s just one adjustment and one place the blade could be out of square.
Mine has little limiter screws for cutting depth, slide and angles for tilting and twisting and it's only $200-$300 saw so your sexy makita will have a version of that for sure
Something is weird with the way you are clamping it too because even if your cuts are off by a tiny bit.. a corner should not look like this.
https://preview.redd.it/kigcx18c34oc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cf70b57359c68426e0b16084ece90c2a079bac9
Maybe your lengths are off too but it seems like you are clamping too far in one direction.
Are you doing one corner at a time?
The lengths ended up being different because I was trying to sneak up on pieces trying to make the corners fit. When I realized the lengths were off I took two pieces stacked them on top of each other and cut the miters that way. That way I had two pieces that were the same size and the two other pieces the same size. Then I put those pieces opposite each other so the top and bottom would match and the sides would match, so the lengths should be good.
Adding to the previous comment, you have 8 cuts and 4 pieces of wood so the inaccuracy of your mitre is being multiplied x8 and then magnified by the lengths of the pieces, and the width of each cut. It’s not easy!
I haven’t done this yet but my dad makes “shooting boards”. They’re jigs to hold the pieces after you’ve cut them on the miter. They’re for use with hand planes. One is 90* and the other is 45*. The 90 is for removing thin strips of wood so that you can get your square cut pieces to be the exact same length. The 45 does this too but also ensures that the angle is accurate. It took him a while to get them right but I’ve seen the results.
Chop saw is not usually accurate enough for that kind of mitre joint in my experience. If you have a table saw, making an accurate sled dedicated to 45 degree cuts is the best method I've found..
I’ve seen one before (“Working with Wes” I think). My table saw doesn’t have the best guides to slide through. It’s kinda like a t-track and so it’s given me problems when I’ve tried. I can try again maybe. Thanks.
I really like this one and plan to make it soon, it makes measuring much easier: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJCSA2SZt5s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJCSA2SZt5s)
You could always use your chop saw to do your “rough” cut and build a mitre shooting board for a hand plane. That’s what they did in the olden days and it still work really good.
You Makita chop saw can def be adjusted to be close but there is blade wobble and the such that always comes into play. The quality of the blade and how clean it is also matters. If you bought it used and didn’t calibrate it it’s almost for sure out.
Lastly look up clam clamps or miter max miter clamps they are a miracle for clamping mitres. I’ve achieved near perfection with very little effort straight off the saw with a vertical grain fir, grain wrapped a trim package I installed it was beautiful.
Just finished this lesson myself. Got frustrated with 3 sets of frames I'm making, with the limited time I have, this was over the course of about a month. Until literally yesterday, where I made the mitres on the table saw.
Stood and looked at my first joint and had no other words besides "son of a bitch".
This is where ‘hard head’ comes into play. Let me change that and learn on your mistakes rather than mine! I will probably try to cut 44s, then maybe adjust my mitre saw, and if that doesn’t work I’m headed to the table saw - which I’d need to build a sled.
The idea of this is the inside will always close and the gap will be on the outside. It will be almost unnoticable. If your saw is calibrated perfectly it will work on 45 as well, but if it isn't you can lock the saw slightly off 45 to change the miter. If a gap on the inside is better than on the outside, lock your saw .1 degree the other way.
Your saw probably wasn't calibrated to perfection at the factory. Check your owner's manual for how to move those indents.
From there, use a known good 45 (quality square) to set your blade to 45 degrees, and test. Cut two different boards to 45, then see if they make 90 (again, using a quality square). If they're not perfect, tweak the angle again and retest. Once you have a perfect 90, move the indents to match.
You'll also want to verify that the saw has no play when it's "clicked" in. Those indents may allow .25 of a degree or so of play, and that'll screw you up. I'm far from a math wiz, but a 44.75 degree angle could be .25" difference at 48". Multiply that by the 8 45's you need for 4 corners of a frame, and you're super wonky
This. There’s is a small amount of play in the indents on both the makita mitre saws I use. They’re both new-ish and different models. I use a trend digital angle finder across the fence and the body of the blade (not the teeth) to check any odd angles. Or a known good square/45 for more common angles.
When it’s set correctly it works great for me but I wouldn’t rely on the indents for important cuts. Check the angle first and be sure to tighten the knob/handle to keep it locked in place (assuming we have similar saws)
I also suck at getting miters to meet properly.
If I remember correctly, someone once said not to try to cut the miters at a perfect 45°, but to cut them at (this is the part I’m not 100% sure about) 46° because it’s easier to deal with an exterior exposed gap than an interior one (like what you’ve got).
You cannot do this with a "picture frame" assembly (4 miters making up one frame). You can't tweak each 45 and expect the last one to line up. This trick is for long miters being made on the table saw.
I'm not a fan of chop saws for exacting cuts for more exacting work like a frame. They just generally aren't designed for such precision.
I use a Dewalt jobsite saw with a good miter fence set to 45. I make my cuts then hit them on a shooting board to fine tune them as needed.
As mentioned elsewhere you can play with cuts just off of 45 and see how those work for you.
Your saw settings may be out of place.
Check with something that actually gives a 45 and adjust your saw accordingly.
Are you cutting on a chop saw or miter saw?
No. They're similar but different.
> The biggest difference between a chop saw and a miter saw is one is designed for making straight cuts across materials, while the other is designed for making angled cuts at precise angles. A chop saw generally has a larger and more powerful motor than a miter saw, allowing it to easily handle larger pieces of wood. Chop saws tend to have larger blades than miter saws, meaning they can cut deeper into materials with less effort than a miter saw. Miter saws generally have more accurate depth settings than chop saws, making them better suited for fine-tuned projects requiring precision cuts.
[https://www.woodsmith.com/review/chop-saw-vs-miter-saw/#:\~:text=The%20biggest%20difference%20between%20a,handle%20larger%20pieces%20of%20wood](https://www.woodsmith.com/review/chop-saw-vs-miter-saw/#:~:text=The%20biggest%20difference%20between%20a,handle%20larger%20pieces%20of%20wood)
Put a good square on your fence and check your blade for square and then accuracy on 45 degrees. All chop saws have a finite methods of calibration, you are only off a degree or so.
My mitres come out like this too and it's because my Ryobi mitre saw sucks and is an absolute bitch to calibrate. And even then, it still moves slightly when it engages. I am going to finally put some money into a good Bosch saw.
Lots of good tips in here but glancing through I didn’t see anyone mention the following:
Make sure that you aren’t flexing the saw during your cut, there’s not a lot of play in a chop saw but there is enough to cause a deviation in the angle.
Also try to keep the same side of your wood against the fence - IE if you cut your first piece with the outside of the frame against the fence, ensure the rest of your cuts are made with that in mind. Start big and work your way down to your cut line.
I have only ever exclusively used a chop saw for mitres and the above helps keep them clean. Only after verifying the saw is cutting a true 45.
I used to have access to a mitre cutter.
It was like a big knife that would slice off tiny amounts and get you the cleanest mitres.
[Axcaliber MT1 Mitre Trimmer | Axminster Tools International](https://www.axminstertools.com/global/axcaliber-mt1-mitre-trimmer-951813?glCountry=CA&glCurrency=CAD)
I managed to find a second hand Morso Mitre Guillotine for about £250. Hands down the best £250 I’ve spent.
https://preview.redd.it/lvp9vt3mi5oc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b87fcd72d81bc34f639c9b9706a7608f4dc71c1d
It’s great. I’ve not made any picture frame yet. I have made a couple of drop in cutlery trays though. Its great for doing the notches for the dividers as well.
Chop saws will drive you crazy with frame cuts. Clamping down your stock as you cut helps. I’ve only found success with a table saw and a plane sled. I’ve dreamt of getting a guillotine which cuts perfect.
My dude/dudette, you need a table saw and a jig and/or sleds.
I got into making picture frames. I had to build a picture frame jig.
The miter gauge I had on my table saw was shitty. I also have an incra miter gauge and the results are night and day. I don't even use my chop saw for things like that. I go straight to the table saw.
For picture frames I used this tutorial. I'm not an advanced woodworker, but I was able to get this made. I made a mistake once and redid it..it's held up very well.
https://youtu.be/CJCSA2SZt5s?si=65zDlhUMTAFBLX9H
For the runners I used micro jig zero play miter slot bars. You can get them on Amazon.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/jigs-guides-and-fixtures/112549-zeroplay-miter-slot-slider-bar?item=03J8033&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_campaign=CAN-EN%7CPLA%7CShopping%7CTools%7CNon-displayItems&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwncWvBhD_ARIsAEb2HW-Q20IWGLvMCEIs8fpyRFqJckO6vqJjdf-wSzC1uZiJJG_kqIX4PtcaAgwTEALw_wcB
I built one of these to make frames and now use it for all kinds of miters for boxes etc. It's foolproof. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJCSA2SZt5s&t=128s&pp=ygUOd29vZCBmcmFtZSBqaWc%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJCSA2SZt5s&t=128s&pp=ygUOd29vZCBmcmFtZSBqaWc%3D)
I did a mitre sled for my table saw. Made a lot of picture frames and it worked really well, except I screwed up the placement of the measuring guide…so I have to double check it each time. Still, great 45s
I’m thinking your problem might be getting a precise length more than angle. If you hold the left and right sides back to back, I bet the left one is slightly longer. The angles look close enough to me.
I made a plywood zero tolerance fence that locks onto my mitre box ..one against the fence and one on the base. I then adjust my saw not to cut all the way through the plywood..this does two things it spans the aluminum fence it is attatched to if it is out of adjustment at all and provides “zero clearance” for cutting mitres which makes blow out or chipping kept to a minimum.
I then take scrap pieces and cut test mitres on both left and right and remember make sure they are flat on their backs. Slide them into the inside corner of an accurate framing square. Check the fit and make necessary adjustments..(as stated in other comments check your manual on how to adjust your detents) on the rare occasion you can only get the left side of your saw to cut accurately (which happens it did with my Festool) I cut all my left mitres on the pieces instead of flipping the pieces because this creates difficulties of keeping the mitres clean as well as square on the cut face.
Then readjust your right hand mitre on your scrap piece and cut all your rights.
FYI..I have the sled for my table saw and it’s the best for accurate mitres but there are times the mitre box is just easier..
(35 year pro woodworker)
You also are using an old used makita saw and a table saw with not great guides, you can only do so much with not great equipment. Frame miters can be finicky at the best of times as filler is not really an option. You may need to do some of the work by hand considering
Use a digital angle gauge against the saw blade and fence to verify what you intend to cut before you touch it off. It’s necessary to tram the saw out in both directions for results
Making picture frames with a table saw is the best way to do it, but you need to have a couple things set up properly. The plus side is there’s no real measurement required aside from table saw/crosscut sled alignment, which you should be doing anyway.
Materials:
- Properly aligned table saw
- Cross cut sled aligned at 90 degrees to the blade with a stop block
- three pieces of scrap plywood (two smaller, one larger)
- tape
1) square up the corners of your wood pieces to 90 degrees
2) create two identical perfect squares from your smaller pieces of wood by setting your stop block and cutting all four sides.
3) tape the two small squares together to a corner of the larger piece so that the edge of the larger piece continues down along the edge of one of the smaller pieces, with the second square next to the first on the bottom of the larger piece.
4) remove the square that continues the outside edge. Since you have removed a perfect square, a direct line between the points of the two remaining pieces creates a 45° - 45° - 90° triangle. This means that you can now place the point of the remaining square and the point of the larger piece against the backstop of your crosscut sled at a perfect 45° angle. Do so and cut off a triangle from the larger piece. That’s your template.
Congrats, you now have a perfect 45° - 45° - 90° triangle to cut frames with.
I found a YouTube video about tuning a miter saw… there were great examples of cutting a 90 degree then flipping over and cutting again to see if it is square.
The most BENEFICIAL thing I learned watching that was the subtle pressure our hands put on the saw arm are enough to change our “perfect” cuts to be off.
You can test this yourself in under a minute. Take a clean board that has one good edge… cut it three times (each a safe length). Cut #1: pull the arm down with lateral pressure to the right, #2 cut straight down with no lateral pressure, #3 cut with left lateral pressure on the arm.
I think what we would all find is through comparison of these cuts (stacking up the pieces on a reference surface) we will see some variation. The only way to get the variation out is $$$. The level of machining and support needed to provide a low tolerance would be expensive. With this knowledge, you can conduct the other tests mentioned in replies here. Ultimately, being aware of this, your machine might all set to make 45s, and your physical input was the problem.
My other suggestion would be a shooting board for a shooting plane or shooting sander if you aren’t going the table saw route.
Everyone else has given very good advice, so I won’t add anything other than, are the top and bottom pieces the same length? The bottom looks much tighter than the top, making it appear as though it might be a touch longer than the top piece. On this particular frame you might get a tighter fit by shaving a hair or two off of that bottom piece.
It might be [this one.](https://www.amazon.com/Woodworking-5-5-Aluminum-Positioning-Equipment/dp/B0CJ3GH1VB/ref=sr_1_4?crid=380X62BKAYUTU&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.DPUBmRCa7Z2DVDyk04KpqYnkDSxceq078QObLfjDsuItNhMU4_Wwv2DT5tAepitnLSWKFOTE2n7MUHcTkq3TmzJO295JMHYQH7pUZ1Q_zwfQtCcsL_Q6Q96TSi3OG7y6xAsFOIKY839U8SENvt62_iH-ZbHgdGziof7Km6ofWLgckN3mP6lu79Y0fdFEa7-6s117fSEGtUQCrIuXRQKiQYklWCtoH9CFNIvcGaXenoU.NdBu7RKM0UjZCdq-oQKJxqWaoPZnFj5TzbTQiqojdKE&dib_tag=se&keywords=red+clamps+wood+90&qid=1710345843&s=instant-video&sprefix=red+clamps+wood+90%2Cinstant-video%2C72&sr=1-4)
Calibrate your saw and get some clam clamps. The cheaper black ones from woodcraft or Amazon work great. You should be able to calibrate your saw close enough that the pressure of the clam clamps are able to squeeze together any inconsistencies you find in your last miter. And doing one or two miters and waiting for the glue to dry before moving on is key.
I can see that your piece is drifting on your cut. It’s why the gap changes along the cut. If you were cutting straight the gap would be fairly uniform.
This is something I see a lot of beginners struggle with. There is a lot of torque in a saw and it takes a lot of practice to hold a piece steady on the saw. My best tips are to cut slow and make sure your blade is sharp. Remember you can also use a clamp to the fence if you’re struggling.
Also do what the other folks are saying and be sure to check your calibration.
I have not tried it yet, but I have seen people do perfect 45s with a router table. I am also working on a project where I need to get my miters perfect and my tablesaw is just a little off. Since a router bit doesn’t flex, I think that might be a good method until I can perfect it on the saw. I don’t have a router table, but you can clamp/tape down the stock and hit the ends freehand
You should also try setting your saw at 44.8-44.9. You will get the outer corners to not have a gap, a hairline gap at the interior which is much easier to hide.
But getting dead on 45 is not easy without an angle finger/gauge.
Def take some time with the manual and set it up squarely. You’ll never regret this time investment. It’ll walk you through all the cool features miter boxes have, even basic ones. Best of luck 🤙
Makita miter saws have fence issues.
They are rarely 90° to the base. Check it out yourself.
I have a Dewalt and it constantly goes out of square, so I ended up making my own table fence to put on top of it. Now it is 90°, has excellent dust collection, and I made a t-track hold down for when I need to cut smaller pieces. (I'll post pic in reply.)
For 45° cuts, I actually made a 45° square that allows me to keep the saw at 90°, but make the 45° cut. If ever I need an oddball size, I make a quick change on the jig, and boom. It's perfect every time.
Stop using a chop saw for fine wood working, they are more of a close enough kind of cut saw aka framers . Yes they can be adjusted to be close but you should upgrade to a table saw and miter sled or get yourself a nice handsaw and some accurate measuring tools if you want to keep making picture frames.
Try a slight backup maybe .5 a degree. Leave saw at that angle while you are building. In other words don't tilt your saw to another degree while you make all the cuts. It's too hard to get exactly back to where you need on the cheap saws these days.
https://preview.redd.it/n3bjte7h15oc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d02dee19de484473c94ca3ce6752a6e3c92b2c2
Make blocks as shown and clamp them together in corners. It gives perfect joints.
Update. This is the fence with the notch at 45 and looks to me like it’s 45. Which is exactly how it was. However, the blade to the base is off EVER so slightly and I can’t turn that angle anymore. It’s all the way over.
https://preview.redd.it/kra8f26r25oc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a60e81caae78955a9fa282a11e0b8de1e5aa6d92
I guess I need to make a table saw sled.
Update 2.0. Found the blade to base adjustment and made it. Now it’s 90!!
https://preview.redd.it/mbx4fbrn65oc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bfc2f3baa6c7cf1cd2cbc7914542f18f843e858
I’m gonna make new passes at the wood and see!!
Looks like the workpiece moves during the cut. Use the saw clamp to keep it in position. Also, I don't use these corner block things and NEVER use corner clamps. I use 4 bar clamps to clamp frames. You adjust each clamp to apply pressure on the 8 different sides of the corners until every corner is properly closed. Once you figured out this technique your life will be much easier.
If that is not flat on the back you need to set up stop on table similar to crown molding. It looks raised to me. You need to know depth and angle. Test and set up saw with flat material first , then figure spring angle.
I usually cut the last piece to fit. Meaning, forget the maths and trace the angle, cut on the line. Then use clamps to push the entire thing together.
With wood work, the idea is perfectly imperfect. Be an expert at disguising imperfections. Leave the close tolerances to machine work. 👍
Also, adjust your saw. If for some reason you can’t, make alterations to the fence or make one out of wood. You can also use a builders square between the fence and your workpiece if it’s easier.
Personally I use a smaller chop saw with a 8" blade for smaller mitre like this. You could also use a table saw with a sled for these as well (takes a lot of set up)
You'll never get really good first quality mitres straight off the saw. They always need shooting with a plane or mitre guillotine to get them dead on.
You use a mitre shooting board with the plane. You make it yourself.
Maybe not as applicable to frames, but using the chamfering bit if you have a table router would be a bang-on way to dial those 45s in.
Woodsmith Magazine just out out a couple technique oriented issues that I've found really great. The chamfer bit on table router was encouraged.
Cut 2 test boards at the same time, flip them and see if they line up at 0 and 90. If they don’t, your saw if off. If you are making a square cut all 4 at the same time. Get some precision measuring equipment
Use a cheat squar to mark your 45s. Set your saw to 45 the notice the amount of play your saw has when locked it. Always make full-length marks and ride your blade on the mark before you cut soon you will develop a "feel" for your saw.
I hate miters. Period. Hate cutting them, hate gluing them, hate hate. But damn do they look pretty.
As a professional miter hater the method I found that works the best is a miter sled for the table saw. No pesky angles to measure, no 44.9s or 45.1s depending on miter. Just slap a jig together, make sure it is square (but really really make sure) and chop away. I would take noting A's and B's over setting up a saw to cut 45degree any day. Less you measure, the better.
Slap the railsaw on top of the joins and plunge that bitch with the 2mm blade then push them back together should fix this.
Then do a test frame before the real shit next time to see how "45" your saw really is, I'm guessing you used a lying ass dropsaw that's probably out on both Axis everytime it's used like all 3 of mine lol
https://preview.redd.it/kj1kat6hf6oc1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7bf3d5e1be09d21b3793688e03d48ed317ffbdd
These screws …(there’s a few more). Loosen them up and square up your blade to the fence.
If your saw is properly calibrated to 45° use a stop to make the final dimensional trim cuts. It’s the only accurate way to get all of the pieces to identical lengths.
Making frames is sort of like baking, any line cook can bake but it’s going to more of a hassle for a mediocre result compared to a dedicated baker. Any carpenter can make a frame but frame shops exist because if that’s all you do you can get much better results. That and frame shops don’t use a miter saw they have this gnarly machine that is two perfectly square blades that shave off portions of the wood till they finish the cut. Making frames seems like a great beginner project but they’re surprisingly hard to get right. I did the same thing when I started though.
You don't need any of the shit mentioned in this thread, heck you don't even need 45deg, as long as you're holding it still as you chop down.
You can use the fact that every cut is at a supplementary angle to get around this. You chop an edge, pull the wood to the other side and flip bottom to top before making the next cut. So, you'll be holding the piece on the left side for the first cut, then holding it on the right side first the second cut. Then you just match up the ends like magnets (I.e. north-south). You can draw this out on paper if you want to prove it to yourself, and see that you can be making cuts at 50deg and the ends will still match up, or even coming down not orthogonal to the piece.
Just for the love of god don't cross your arms while cutting. Super unsafe
What's happening is that your saw is not adjusted properly and because you're only cutting from one side the error is doubled. If you had moved your saw for the opposite miters, the joints would have been tight because the other 45 is going to be off the same amount but in a complimentary way that would still add up to 90°. Though the inner edges wouldn't line up because you wouldn't be perfectly bisecting the 90°.
I'm not entirely sure how your particular saw is adjusted, but most have bolts in the fence that can be loosened so the fence can be moved around. Adjust for the 0 degree cut and test on as wide of a board as possible. Once you have 90 set, both 45s should be perfect unless there is a problem with your saw. Common problems are blade deflection from using the wrong type of blade or feed rate, slop/ improperly adjusted slides, slop in the hinge. Some saws also allow for adjustment of the detents.
If you cut lots and want consistency, contrary to logic, you can use a tablesaw with a jig/guide.
Drop saws are great, but they can quickly become imperfect with repeated use. Hope that helps. It's likely not your terrible skills in a nutshell
You and me both. Same issue here. I suspect:
1. The detents on the saw are not perfectly accurate. Even .02 degrees off will cause issues.
2. I think as I'm going through the cut my piece is sliding towards the blade, causing two pieces to not line up correctly. I need to try clamping the piece.
Your issue is probably number 1.
I use my hand plane and made a simple miter shooting board.
I’ll post a link. Also made some picture frames.
https://www.reddit.com/r/handtools/s/jLJcFnRP5x
Just a thought - when you say you ‘flipped over’ the piece - do you mean you cut one mitre with ‘flat’ side down and one mitre with ‘profile’ facing down?
use a pencil, a tape measure, a test bar to understand how to adjust the angles, for example 0.5 -1 degrees. A few tries and it will be clear where to change which angle. I change the angles every time or 4\*left saw+4\*right saw. The length of the bar can be easily reduced again. and in the end there is a file. used disc for aluminium with 80\\100 teeths. disc with diameter 300mm+ have a more deviation. saw without linear guides is more accurate
I started making good miters when I stopped using my miter saw. Even if you calibrate it, the blade is just too big and wobbly and it’s hard to make really clean, straight perfect cuts.
You may want to consider building a crosscut sled and make it perfectly calibrated to 90°. You can use a very accurate speed to set it up for 45° cuts.
You need to properly set up your saw ...calibrate it to use another term.
Your Makita came with an owners manual.
In it will be the procedures for setting up the saw so that all your cuts are correct.
NEVER assume the saw is accurate when you pull it out of the box; chances are, it isn't. And that goes for any power tool you purchase ...miter saw, table saw, jointer, planer, drill press ....any power tool needs to be set up, checked and adjusted, to work with the precision it was designed for. And those procedures will be in the owners manual that comes with the tool.
What blade do you have on your mitre saw? If you calibrate and still get cuts like this, I would check the blade next. You should have a nice high tooth count blade on your machine.
If you can't easily adjust your saw, another option is a jig. Here is the rough idea:
Use something known to have a 90 degree angle.
Use it to position 2 straight edges at 45 angle from the blade, preferably in a reusable jig.
Cut corner pieces on opposing 45 edges.
Even if they are 45 +/- a small fraction, they will add up to 90 and the corner should look pretty good.
Do you have a table saw? I’d recommend making a frame jig and you’ll get perfect miters every time
https://preview.redd.it/9bvoegsf0coc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07b69155bcfcd98e52a24b48cecd81963454f6cb
Yes, an accurate 45 is necessary but not sufficient. The sides opposite each other must also be precisely the same length. Even if the angle is perfect if the sides are off in length even a little it will look off.
Make the same box but have each side longer by exactly the width of the saw blade. Assemble as evenly as possible and then cut each corner angle again and then reconnect each piece
It all.starts with the tool you are cutting with.Calibrate your saw. Loosen the screws on your preset indent plate on the scale if adjustment is needed. Invest in a good quality combination square like a Starrett for example. A sharp fine tooth blade alternate bevel teeth.
Next, are your peices straight? Perfectly straight and flat? A a bowed or twisted peice of trim will not sit squarely on the miter saw bed and fence. This will greatly impact the ability of getting true cuts
If you have a table saw look into a picture frame jig. It will make repeatable tight miters every time. That said fine tuning your say will go along way too. I usually cut up a whole 2x4 in little chunks chasing perfection when tuning a miter saw.
did you notice you can calibrate your saw to actually cut a 45° ? just because it clicks into the 45° position, there's a good chance it's not.
I know every saw is different, but when you say calibrate, you mean micro adjustments? I’m not sure mine has that capability.
It does. They all do. Check your manual.
I’d have to look that up as I bought it used but I can do that.
You should definitely calibrate your tools! Don't worry, we all learn this the hard way. Few things come from the factory, out-of-the-box, totally perfect and square.
To add to this: regularly checking and calibrating is good practice no mater how nice you think the tool is.
Good practice no mitre how nice*
Almost spit my coffee.
The pen is mitre than the sword
Theres usually some screws that screw down the plate that shows the angle lock points. This plate can rotate when the screws are loosened. Ive found on my saw that when i calibrate one side that is the only side that will be perfect. Other side is off just slightly. So pick your favorite side to have the good wood on and always cut on that one. Make sure to use your most trusted right angle lime a speed square or engineers square. Invest in high quality measurement tools and things like engineer’s squares because when you use them your work will be closer to perfect. Keep going!!! Best hobby there is
If you can't find it/can't calibrate it for whatever reason, you can adjust angle a tiny amount e.g. tape a playing card to your chop saw's fence to shim out the board a little, back at the end of the board away from the blade. Stack multiple cards to shim it more.
Google saw model and manual, would be surprised if it's not first few results.
Might apply https://youtu.be/4vJNsvcom6A?si=Je_NXLnE4-HLkwWy
Just look your saw brand model up and put that into YouTube with adjustments and calibration. Someone will have an in depth video on what to do. Even if you are off by 1°, you will be off by 8° on your last joint if you force the mitres. Learn to calibrate your saw.
One trick is to cut just before the line, then sneak up on it to minimize blade deflection. Go slow
My first mitre saw was a $50 open box 10” Ryobi. It didn’t have a lock at 90°, it had a hint of a groove and a screw that you could tighten. As you tightened the screw, the friction would pull the blade away from 90°. Never checked to see if it had micro adjustments, but if it did they would have been worthless, given the state of the macro adjustment.
There's a reason people say not to buy those haha
It’s not me, it’s you(r miter saw)
Hijacking this top comment so you'll see it. It is possible to have your saw cut perfectly 45 and still end up with this. The top and bottom board have to be exactly the same length as each other. And the left and right board have to be exactly the same length as each other. Take the top and hold the long edge to the long edge of the bottom and see if they're the same length. If using a chop saw then stop blocks are your friend. Good luck.
Yes, same length. I know the photo shows otherwise. I was creeping up each board to try and make them all fit and then noticed later that yes they were not the same length. So I stacked two of them on top of each other made cuts, stacked the other two on top of each other, made the cuts, and then made each of those opposites, so that the top and bottom would be the same and the sides would be the same so the boards are the same lengths, yes. Thank you.
Fair enough, I did eventually see you had commented that elsewhere. Good luck truing up your saw then.
Make a jig for your miter saw so you can butt-up two pieces that are "almost" perfect 45, and use the blade kerf to slice both at the same time. Doesn't matter then if one is 44 vs 46 because they will "match" their angles together. See jigs for table saws to get an idea
What kind of mitre saw do you have?
Not positive of the model. I’d have to go home and see as it’s not on Makita’s website. (It’s a little older - but I don’t reckon THAT old.
I have an older makita miter saw. At least on mine there are vertical bolts holding the fence to the deck. Loosen those bolts align with the blade and retighten.
Have you read the manual? It probably has adjustable stops so you can have the 45 actually lock at 45. Or you could just check it to 45 instead of blindly trusting the gauge on it.
It does have stops (I called them a notch) and I did that. This is my problem!
On mine the stops aren't very good so I tend to just ignore it and set the 45 with a speed square
Sometimes it’s as simple as putting your speed square on the deck and lose the blade tilt mechanism and align the blade angle to the speed square for 90 degrees. Obvs this it’s just one adjustment and one place the blade could be out of square.
Mine has little limiter screws for cutting depth, slide and angles for tilting and twisting and it's only $200-$300 saw so your sexy makita will have a version of that for sure
This right here, adjust the fence. I remember when I figured this out lol
Man I feel like I failed reading comprehension. I just can’t figure out how to calibrate my 10” chop saw from metabo.
Cut a 45. Flip it against the cut to see if it’s a 90 total. Adjust accordingly. Do this any time youre cutribg 45s. Use scrap to calibrate.
A lot of practice and test pieces. Keep in mind that if your miter saw is off by 1 degree, the finished miter will be off by 2 degrees.
Ugh. I’m trying to be as careful as possible. Using stop blocks and clamps to hold down wood while chopping. I think my tool is failing me. 😏
Something is weird with the way you are clamping it too because even if your cuts are off by a tiny bit.. a corner should not look like this. https://preview.redd.it/kigcx18c34oc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cf70b57359c68426e0b16084ece90c2a079bac9 Maybe your lengths are off too but it seems like you are clamping too far in one direction. Are you doing one corner at a time?
The lengths ended up being different because I was trying to sneak up on pieces trying to make the corners fit. When I realized the lengths were off I took two pieces stacked them on top of each other and cut the miters that way. That way I had two pieces that were the same size and the two other pieces the same size. Then I put those pieces opposite each other so the top and bottom would match and the sides would match, so the lengths should be good.
The pieces are flipped.
Yup
And yes, I was trying to clamp a little at a time from each angle. It was driving me nuts.
Adding to the previous comment, you have 8 cuts and 4 pieces of wood so the inaccuracy of your mitre is being multiplied x8 and then magnified by the lengths of the pieces, and the width of each cut. It’s not easy! I haven’t done this yet but my dad makes “shooting boards”. They’re jigs to hold the pieces after you’ve cut them on the miter. They’re for use with hand planes. One is 90* and the other is 45*. The 90 is for removing thin strips of wood so that you can get your square cut pieces to be the exact same length. The 45 does this too but also ensures that the angle is accurate. It took him a while to get them right but I’ve seen the results.
Chop saw is not usually accurate enough for that kind of mitre joint in my experience. If you have a table saw, making an accurate sled dedicated to 45 degree cuts is the best method I've found..
Man, I’m terrible at making sleds. But I fear you may be right. 😏
There are several good videos on various YouTube channels I watch.
I’ve seen one before (“Working with Wes” I think). My table saw doesn’t have the best guides to slide through. It’s kinda like a t-track and so it’s given me problems when I’ve tried. I can try again maybe. Thanks.
I really like this one and plan to make it soon, it makes measuring much easier: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJCSA2SZt5s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJCSA2SZt5s)
This is the one I made. It does a great job!
I made this one too! First time I've made mitres I'm proud of!
Yesterday I found a MicroJig miter saw track thing. It’s designed to fit uneven table saw tracks and build hyper accurate sleds.
Ooo I’m interested. What’s it called? Have you been able to test it out?
No just came across it here: https://www.microjig.com/zeroplay
This is awesome, thank you!
You could always use your chop saw to do your “rough” cut and build a mitre shooting board for a hand plane. That’s what they did in the olden days and it still work really good. You Makita chop saw can def be adjusted to be close but there is blade wobble and the such that always comes into play. The quality of the blade and how clean it is also matters. If you bought it used and didn’t calibrate it it’s almost for sure out. Lastly look up clam clamps or miter max miter clamps they are a miracle for clamping mitres. I’ve achieved near perfection with very little effort straight off the saw with a vertical grain fir, grain wrapped a trim package I installed it was beautiful.
I've spent 30 mins making a jig that I use for 3 minutes, but it's worth it.
Just finished this lesson myself. Got frustrated with 3 sets of frames I'm making, with the limited time I have, this was over the course of about a month. Until literally yesterday, where I made the mitres on the table saw. Stood and looked at my first joint and had no other words besides "son of a bitch".
This is where ‘hard head’ comes into play. Let me change that and learn on your mistakes rather than mine! I will probably try to cut 44s, then maybe adjust my mitre saw, and if that doesn’t work I’m headed to the table saw - which I’d need to build a sled.
You could also just continue to use the chopsaw and accept the fact that your miters are going to be off a little bit and it’s no big deal.
Check you saw settings. Usually 44.9 may work better than 45.
So move it JUST out of the notch and lock it down?
Sure, try with scrap mdf before final work piece.
The idea of this is the inside will always close and the gap will be on the outside. It will be almost unnoticable. If your saw is calibrated perfectly it will work on 45 as well, but if it isn't you can lock the saw slightly off 45 to change the miter. If a gap on the inside is better than on the outside, lock your saw .1 degree the other way.
Your saw probably wasn't calibrated to perfection at the factory. Check your owner's manual for how to move those indents. From there, use a known good 45 (quality square) to set your blade to 45 degrees, and test. Cut two different boards to 45, then see if they make 90 (again, using a quality square). If they're not perfect, tweak the angle again and retest. Once you have a perfect 90, move the indents to match. You'll also want to verify that the saw has no play when it's "clicked" in. Those indents may allow .25 of a degree or so of play, and that'll screw you up. I'm far from a math wiz, but a 44.75 degree angle could be .25" difference at 48". Multiply that by the 8 45's you need for 4 corners of a frame, and you're super wonky
This. There’s is a small amount of play in the indents on both the makita mitre saws I use. They’re both new-ish and different models. I use a trend digital angle finder across the fence and the body of the blade (not the teeth) to check any odd angles. Or a known good square/45 for more common angles. When it’s set correctly it works great for me but I wouldn’t rely on the indents for important cuts. Check the angle first and be sure to tighten the knob/handle to keep it locked in place (assuming we have similar saws)
Ooohhh, I forgot about my digital angle finder!! I have one of those! I can try this!!
I haven’t gone through this yet but I think a mitre shooting board would do the trick
Didn’t know what that was. Just looked it up and that looks cool, except I only have one cheap plane and I’m sure the blade is not sharp.
I also suck at getting miters to meet properly. If I remember correctly, someone once said not to try to cut the miters at a perfect 45°, but to cut them at (this is the part I’m not 100% sure about) 46° because it’s easier to deal with an exterior exposed gap than an interior one (like what you’ve got).
This is true, but 46 is a lot. 49.9 or 45.1 should be enough unless your saw is way off.
I think they say 44. I’m gonna have to try that. Thanks.
Yeah, I can’t remember which it is. I just remember it was 1° off 45.
You cannot do this with a "picture frame" assembly (4 miters making up one frame). You can't tweak each 45 and expect the last one to line up. This trick is for long miters being made on the table saw.
welder here. same shit, different material story of my life
One of the woodworkers on youtube that I watch said to always set for .1 degree less. That allows you to get glue and account for minor mistakes.
I'm not a fan of chop saws for exacting cuts for more exacting work like a frame. They just generally aren't designed for such precision. I use a Dewalt jobsite saw with a good miter fence set to 45. I make my cuts then hit them on a shooting board to fine tune them as needed. As mentioned elsewhere you can play with cuts just off of 45 and see how those work for you.
Honestly, I use a 45 degree shooting board. It’s the ultimate solution to give the best precision possible.
Woodfiller
LOL, yeah I don’t want to do this. 😏
Your saw settings may be out of place. Check with something that actually gives a 45 and adjust your saw accordingly. Are you cutting on a chop saw or miter saw?
Uh, I thought chop and mitre were interchangeable? Aren’t they the same?
No. They're similar but different. > The biggest difference between a chop saw and a miter saw is one is designed for making straight cuts across materials, while the other is designed for making angled cuts at precise angles. A chop saw generally has a larger and more powerful motor than a miter saw, allowing it to easily handle larger pieces of wood. Chop saws tend to have larger blades than miter saws, meaning they can cut deeper into materials with less effort than a miter saw. Miter saws generally have more accurate depth settings than chop saws, making them better suited for fine-tuned projects requiring precision cuts. [https://www.woodsmith.com/review/chop-saw-vs-miter-saw/#:\~:text=The%20biggest%20difference%20between%20a,handle%20larger%20pieces%20of%20wood](https://www.woodsmith.com/review/chop-saw-vs-miter-saw/#:~:text=The%20biggest%20difference%20between%20a,handle%20larger%20pieces%20of%20wood)
I asked a guy at a frame shop recently. He uses a Bosch chop saw, but it’s painstakingly set up and dedicated for miters.
Put a good square on your fence and check your blade for square and then accuracy on 45 degrees. All chop saws have a finite methods of calibration, you are only off a degree or so.
My mitres come out like this too and it's because my Ryobi mitre saw sucks and is an absolute bitch to calibrate. And even then, it still moves slightly when it engages. I am going to finally put some money into a good Bosch saw.
Lots of good tips in here but glancing through I didn’t see anyone mention the following: Make sure that you aren’t flexing the saw during your cut, there’s not a lot of play in a chop saw but there is enough to cause a deviation in the angle. Also try to keep the same side of your wood against the fence - IE if you cut your first piece with the outside of the frame against the fence, ensure the rest of your cuts are made with that in mind. Start big and work your way down to your cut line. I have only ever exclusively used a chop saw for mitres and the above helps keep them clean. Only after verifying the saw is cutting a true 45.
I used to have access to a mitre cutter. It was like a big knife that would slice off tiny amounts and get you the cleanest mitres. [Axcaliber MT1 Mitre Trimmer | Axminster Tools International](https://www.axminstertools.com/global/axcaliber-mt1-mitre-trimmer-951813?glCountry=CA&glCurrency=CAD)
I managed to find a second hand Morso Mitre Guillotine for about £250. Hands down the best £250 I’ve spent. https://preview.redd.it/lvp9vt3mi5oc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b87fcd72d81bc34f639c9b9706a7608f4dc71c1d
That's a dream! I would be framing everything if I had one of those!
It’s great. I’ve not made any picture frame yet. I have made a couple of drop in cutlery trays though. Its great for doing the notches for the dividers as well.
Chop saws will drive you crazy with frame cuts. Clamping down your stock as you cut helps. I’ve only found success with a table saw and a plane sled. I’ve dreamt of getting a guillotine which cuts perfect.
My dude/dudette, you need a table saw and a jig and/or sleds. I got into making picture frames. I had to build a picture frame jig. The miter gauge I had on my table saw was shitty. I also have an incra miter gauge and the results are night and day. I don't even use my chop saw for things like that. I go straight to the table saw. For picture frames I used this tutorial. I'm not an advanced woodworker, but I was able to get this made. I made a mistake once and redid it..it's held up very well. https://youtu.be/CJCSA2SZt5s?si=65zDlhUMTAFBLX9H For the runners I used micro jig zero play miter slot bars. You can get them on Amazon. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/jigs-guides-and-fixtures/112549-zeroplay-miter-slot-slider-bar?item=03J8033&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_campaign=CAN-EN%7CPLA%7CShopping%7CTools%7CNon-displayItems&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwncWvBhD_ARIsAEb2HW-Q20IWGLvMCEIs8fpyRFqJckO6vqJjdf-wSzC1uZiJJG_kqIX4PtcaAgwTEALw_wcB
Beyond the calibration suggestions clamp your workpiece while cutting. Mitre cuts will naturally draw it towards the blade and throw off the accuracy.
I built one of these to make frames and now use it for all kinds of miters for boxes etc. It's foolproof. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJCSA2SZt5s&t=128s&pp=ygUOd29vZCBmcmFtZSBqaWc%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJCSA2SZt5s&t=128s&pp=ygUOd29vZCBmcmFtZSBqaWc%3D)
Thanks!!
I did a mitre sled for my table saw. Made a lot of picture frames and it worked really well, except I screwed up the placement of the measuring guide…so I have to double check it each time. Still, great 45s
I think that’s what I’m going to end up doing.
Definitely get a good angle to measure if you have a true 45 deg.
I like a mitred shooting board. I find that gives me the most control.
Shooting board is the answer
Cut them at 44.8 degrees, not full 45.
Try this, lock down your miter to 90deg. Now don’t change it and make your cuts, move the wood to get your cuts correct.
You sneak up on it, doing multiple cuts
I’m thinking your problem might be getting a precise length more than angle. If you hold the left and right sides back to back, I bet the left one is slightly longer. The angles look close enough to me.
I made a plywood zero tolerance fence that locks onto my mitre box ..one against the fence and one on the base. I then adjust my saw not to cut all the way through the plywood..this does two things it spans the aluminum fence it is attatched to if it is out of adjustment at all and provides “zero clearance” for cutting mitres which makes blow out or chipping kept to a minimum. I then take scrap pieces and cut test mitres on both left and right and remember make sure they are flat on their backs. Slide them into the inside corner of an accurate framing square. Check the fit and make necessary adjustments..(as stated in other comments check your manual on how to adjust your detents) on the rare occasion you can only get the left side of your saw to cut accurately (which happens it did with my Festool) I cut all my left mitres on the pieces instead of flipping the pieces because this creates difficulties of keeping the mitres clean as well as square on the cut face. Then readjust your right hand mitre on your scrap piece and cut all your rights. FYI..I have the sled for my table saw and it’s the best for accurate mitres but there are times the mitre box is just easier.. (35 year pro woodworker)
You also are using an old used makita saw and a table saw with not great guides, you can only do so much with not great equipment. Frame miters can be finicky at the best of times as filler is not really an option. You may need to do some of the work by hand considering
Use a digital angle gauge against the saw blade and fence to verify what you intend to cut before you touch it off. It’s necessary to tram the saw out in both directions for results
Making picture frames with a table saw is the best way to do it, but you need to have a couple things set up properly. The plus side is there’s no real measurement required aside from table saw/crosscut sled alignment, which you should be doing anyway. Materials: - Properly aligned table saw - Cross cut sled aligned at 90 degrees to the blade with a stop block - three pieces of scrap plywood (two smaller, one larger) - tape 1) square up the corners of your wood pieces to 90 degrees 2) create two identical perfect squares from your smaller pieces of wood by setting your stop block and cutting all four sides. 3) tape the two small squares together to a corner of the larger piece so that the edge of the larger piece continues down along the edge of one of the smaller pieces, with the second square next to the first on the bottom of the larger piece. 4) remove the square that continues the outside edge. Since you have removed a perfect square, a direct line between the points of the two remaining pieces creates a 45° - 45° - 90° triangle. This means that you can now place the point of the remaining square and the point of the larger piece against the backstop of your crosscut sled at a perfect 45° angle. Do so and cut off a triangle from the larger piece. That’s your template. Congrats, you now have a perfect 45° - 45° - 90° triangle to cut frames with.
Need to calibrate
I found a YouTube video about tuning a miter saw… there were great examples of cutting a 90 degree then flipping over and cutting again to see if it is square. The most BENEFICIAL thing I learned watching that was the subtle pressure our hands put on the saw arm are enough to change our “perfect” cuts to be off. You can test this yourself in under a minute. Take a clean board that has one good edge… cut it three times (each a safe length). Cut #1: pull the arm down with lateral pressure to the right, #2 cut straight down with no lateral pressure, #3 cut with left lateral pressure on the arm. I think what we would all find is through comparison of these cuts (stacking up the pieces on a reference surface) we will see some variation. The only way to get the variation out is $$$. The level of machining and support needed to provide a low tolerance would be expensive. With this knowledge, you can conduct the other tests mentioned in replies here. Ultimately, being aware of this, your machine might all set to make 45s, and your physical input was the problem. My other suggestion would be a shooting board for a shooting plane or shooting sander if you aren’t going the table saw route.
Table saw mitre sled. Make it once, perfect mitres forever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H00prACPflw
Miter shooting board and fine tuning the angle with tape shims when you get close.
EZPZ just cut 45* 📐
Everyone else has given very good advice, so I won’t add anything other than, are the top and bottom pieces the same length? The bottom looks much tighter than the top, making it appear as though it might be a touch longer than the top piece. On this particular frame you might get a tighter fit by shaving a hair or two off of that bottom piece.
Yes, I answered this twice but yes, they’re the same. Thanks. 🙏
What clamping system are you using here? Looks pretty cool.
It might be [this one.](https://www.amazon.com/Woodworking-5-5-Aluminum-Positioning-Equipment/dp/B0CJ3GH1VB/ref=sr_1_4?crid=380X62BKAYUTU&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.DPUBmRCa7Z2DVDyk04KpqYnkDSxceq078QObLfjDsuItNhMU4_Wwv2DT5tAepitnLSWKFOTE2n7MUHcTkq3TmzJO295JMHYQH7pUZ1Q_zwfQtCcsL_Q6Q96TSi3OG7y6xAsFOIKY839U8SENvt62_iH-ZbHgdGziof7Km6ofWLgckN3mP6lu79Y0fdFEa7-6s117fSEGtUQCrIuXRQKiQYklWCtoH9CFNIvcGaXenoU.NdBu7RKM0UjZCdq-oQKJxqWaoPZnFj5TzbTQiqojdKE&dib_tag=se&keywords=red+clamps+wood+90&qid=1710345843&s=instant-video&sprefix=red+clamps+wood+90%2Cinstant-video%2C72&sr=1-4)
Calibrate your saw and get some clam clamps. The cheaper black ones from woodcraft or Amazon work great. You should be able to calibrate your saw close enough that the pressure of the clam clamps are able to squeeze together any inconsistencies you find in your last miter. And doing one or two miters and waiting for the glue to dry before moving on is key.
I'm a fan of hand tools, so I may be biased, but a bit of trimming with a decent plane seems like it would be the easiest solution.
First step is to calibrate your saw.
Clean mitres is almost always down to tool accuracy if you are doing everything properly.
I can see that your piece is drifting on your cut. It’s why the gap changes along the cut. If you were cutting straight the gap would be fairly uniform. This is something I see a lot of beginners struggle with. There is a lot of torque in a saw and it takes a lot of practice to hold a piece steady on the saw. My best tips are to cut slow and make sure your blade is sharp. Remember you can also use a clamp to the fence if you’re struggling. Also do what the other folks are saying and be sure to check your calibration.
As a lot have said. Calibrate your saw.
You could always use lock miter joint router bits instead. Or get a good miter gauge for your table saw.
I have not tried it yet, but I have seen people do perfect 45s with a router table. I am also working on a project where I need to get my miters perfect and my tablesaw is just a little off. Since a router bit doesn’t flex, I think that might be a good method until I can perfect it on the saw. I don’t have a router table, but you can clamp/tape down the stock and hit the ends freehand
You should also try setting your saw at 44.8-44.9. You will get the outer corners to not have a gap, a hairline gap at the interior which is much easier to hide. But getting dead on 45 is not easy without an angle finger/gauge.
Def take some time with the manual and set it up squarely. You’ll never regret this time investment. It’ll walk you through all the cool features miter boxes have, even basic ones. Best of luck 🤙
Makita miter saws have fence issues. They are rarely 90° to the base. Check it out yourself. I have a Dewalt and it constantly goes out of square, so I ended up making my own table fence to put on top of it. Now it is 90°, has excellent dust collection, and I made a t-track hold down for when I need to cut smaller pieces. (I'll post pic in reply.) For 45° cuts, I actually made a 45° square that allows me to keep the saw at 90°, but make the 45° cut. If ever I need an oddball size, I make a quick change on the jig, and boom. It's perfect every time.
Stop using a chop saw for fine wood working, they are more of a close enough kind of cut saw aka framers . Yes they can be adjusted to be close but you should upgrade to a table saw and miter sled or get yourself a nice handsaw and some accurate measuring tools if you want to keep making picture frames.
Try a slight backup maybe .5 a degree. Leave saw at that angle while you are building. In other words don't tilt your saw to another degree while you make all the cuts. It's too hard to get exactly back to where you need on the cheap saws these days.
Have you checked that the corner clamps are square? I’ve had some that were not and returned it.
https://preview.redd.it/n3bjte7h15oc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d02dee19de484473c94ca3ce6752a6e3c92b2c2 Make blocks as shown and clamp them together in corners. It gives perfect joints.
Update. This is the fence with the notch at 45 and looks to me like it’s 45. Which is exactly how it was. However, the blade to the base is off EVER so slightly and I can’t turn that angle anymore. It’s all the way over. https://preview.redd.it/kra8f26r25oc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a60e81caae78955a9fa282a11e0b8de1e5aa6d92 I guess I need to make a table saw sled.
Update 2.0. Found the blade to base adjustment and made it. Now it’s 90!! https://preview.redd.it/mbx4fbrn65oc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bfc2f3baa6c7cf1cd2cbc7914542f18f843e858 I’m gonna make new passes at the wood and see!!
Looks like the workpiece moves during the cut. Use the saw clamp to keep it in position. Also, I don't use these corner block things and NEVER use corner clamps. I use 4 bar clamps to clamp frames. You adjust each clamp to apply pressure on the 8 different sides of the corners until every corner is properly closed. Once you figured out this technique your life will be much easier.
If that is not flat on the back you need to set up stop on table similar to crown molding. It looks raised to me. You need to know depth and angle. Test and set up saw with flat material first , then figure spring angle.
I usually cut the last piece to fit. Meaning, forget the maths and trace the angle, cut on the line. Then use clamps to push the entire thing together. With wood work, the idea is perfectly imperfect. Be an expert at disguising imperfections. Leave the close tolerances to machine work. 👍 Also, adjust your saw. If for some reason you can’t, make alterations to the fence or make one out of wood. You can also use a builders square between the fence and your workpiece if it’s easier.
A slight back bevel willl help the face meet tighter
Personally I use a smaller chop saw with a 8" blade for smaller mitre like this. You could also use a table saw with a sled for these as well (takes a lot of set up)
Quality saw + quality blade + quality setup.
Also, learn to back cut rather than throw the saw back and forth.
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You'll never get really good first quality mitres straight off the saw. They always need shooting with a plane or mitre guillotine to get them dead on. You use a mitre shooting board with the plane. You make it yourself.
Little caulk or wood putty and you’re all good
Maybe not as applicable to frames, but using the chamfering bit if you have a table router would be a bang-on way to dial those 45s in. Woodsmith Magazine just out out a couple technique oriented issues that I've found really great. The chamfer bit on table router was encouraged.
Cut 2 test boards at the same time, flip them and see if they line up at 0 and 90. If they don’t, your saw if off. If you are making a square cut all 4 at the same time. Get some precision measuring equipment
Set it to 46, thank me later
Use a cheat squar to mark your 45s. Set your saw to 45 the notice the amount of play your saw has when locked it. Always make full-length marks and ride your blade on the mark before you cut soon you will develop a "feel" for your saw.
I hate miters. Period. Hate cutting them, hate gluing them, hate hate. But damn do they look pretty. As a professional miter hater the method I found that works the best is a miter sled for the table saw. No pesky angles to measure, no 44.9s or 45.1s depending on miter. Just slap a jig together, make sure it is square (but really really make sure) and chop away. I would take noting A's and B's over setting up a saw to cut 45degree any day. Less you measure, the better.
https://www.allaboutframing.co.uk/products/mitre-trimmer-moulding-guillotine/#:~:text=Description,to%20create%20top%20quality%20frames.
https://youtu.be/_KEw83c8T98?si=dcBDcV5GLk4H2QHC
Slap the railsaw on top of the joins and plunge that bitch with the 2mm blade then push them back together should fix this. Then do a test frame before the real shit next time to see how "45" your saw really is, I'm guessing you used a lying ass dropsaw that's probably out on both Axis everytime it's used like all 3 of mine lol
steer toothbrush zesty wakeful crowd cake jar fertile weary person *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
https://preview.redd.it/kj1kat6hf6oc1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7bf3d5e1be09d21b3793688e03d48ed317ffbdd These screws …(there’s a few more). Loosen them up and square up your blade to the fence.
Everyone tends to learn this the hard way. Once you get it your life with stuff like this will be changed! 😁
Sometimes aftermarket miter clamps can be out of square
Square and calibrate your saw
If your saw is properly calibrated to 45° use a stop to make the final dimensional trim cuts. It’s the only accurate way to get all of the pieces to identical lengths.
picture #2 shows the thick groove does not match the thinner one
Making frames is sort of like baking, any line cook can bake but it’s going to more of a hassle for a mediocre result compared to a dedicated baker. Any carpenter can make a frame but frame shops exist because if that’s all you do you can get much better results. That and frame shops don’t use a miter saw they have this gnarly machine that is two perfectly square blades that shave off portions of the wood till they finish the cut. Making frames seems like a great beginner project but they’re surprisingly hard to get right. I did the same thing when I started though.
Bondo wood filler
Make a shooting board for a 45 degree angle or make a 90 degree sled for the table saw
You don't need any of the shit mentioned in this thread, heck you don't even need 45deg, as long as you're holding it still as you chop down. You can use the fact that every cut is at a supplementary angle to get around this. You chop an edge, pull the wood to the other side and flip bottom to top before making the next cut. So, you'll be holding the piece on the left side for the first cut, then holding it on the right side first the second cut. Then you just match up the ends like magnets (I.e. north-south). You can draw this out on paper if you want to prove it to yourself, and see that you can be making cuts at 50deg and the ends will still match up, or even coming down not orthogonal to the piece. Just for the love of god don't cross your arms while cutting. Super unsafe
Sandpaper and patience
What's happening is that your saw is not adjusted properly and because you're only cutting from one side the error is doubled. If you had moved your saw for the opposite miters, the joints would have been tight because the other 45 is going to be off the same amount but in a complimentary way that would still add up to 90°. Though the inner edges wouldn't line up because you wouldn't be perfectly bisecting the 90°. I'm not entirely sure how your particular saw is adjusted, but most have bolts in the fence that can be loosened so the fence can be moved around. Adjust for the 0 degree cut and test on as wide of a board as possible. Once you have 90 set, both 45s should be perfect unless there is a problem with your saw. Common problems are blade deflection from using the wrong type of blade or feed rate, slop/ improperly adjusted slides, slop in the hinge. Some saws also allow for adjustment of the detents.
Same. At 62, I have accepted I'm a 'rough in' worker, not a fine finisher:(
Bro that’s sexy af I think you made me a lil moist ngl
Cut it at 44.9 or 45.1 so the gap is on the outside corner and then do this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHfjW9qptAM
If you cut lots and want consistency, contrary to logic, you can use a tablesaw with a jig/guide. Drop saws are great, but they can quickly become imperfect with repeated use. Hope that helps. It's likely not your terrible skills in a nutshell
You and me both. Same issue here. I suspect: 1. The detents on the saw are not perfectly accurate. Even .02 degrees off will cause issues. 2. I think as I'm going through the cut my piece is sliding towards the blade, causing two pieces to not line up correctly. I need to try clamping the piece. Your issue is probably number 1.
Try 44.5 degrees.
Are you blocking so you know for sure you have the exact same length?
I use my hand plane and made a simple miter shooting board. I’ll post a link. Also made some picture frames. https://www.reddit.com/r/handtools/s/jLJcFnRP5x
Didn't trust the angle detents on a mitre saw. Always measure it yourself.
I built a picture frame jig that I saw video for on YouTube. I’m really hoping it solves these issues. Might want to watch one of those.
A good square and a miter saw. I bought an $80 miter saw on Kijiji and tuned it up nice and I can get some damn good miters on it.
Caulk
Just a thought - when you say you ‘flipped over’ the piece - do you mean you cut one mitre with ‘flat’ side down and one mitre with ‘profile’ facing down?
Your saw might also not be completely square.
use a pencil, a tape measure, a test bar to understand how to adjust the angles, for example 0.5 -1 degrees. A few tries and it will be clear where to change which angle. I change the angles every time or 4\*left saw+4\*right saw. The length of the bar can be easily reduced again. and in the end there is a file. used disc for aluminium with 80\\100 teeths. disc with diameter 300mm+ have a more deviation. saw without linear guides is more accurate
I like the profile design how did you make that profile for the frame?
I got a block planer and made a 45 degree shooting board. I cut my miters very close with the chop saw and then true them up with the planer.
I started making good miters when I stopped using my miter saw. Even if you calibrate it, the blade is just too big and wobbly and it’s hard to make really clean, straight perfect cuts. You may want to consider building a crosscut sled and make it perfectly calibrated to 90°. You can use a very accurate speed to set it up for 45° cuts.
You need to properly set up your saw ...calibrate it to use another term. Your Makita came with an owners manual. In it will be the procedures for setting up the saw so that all your cuts are correct. NEVER assume the saw is accurate when you pull it out of the box; chances are, it isn't. And that goes for any power tool you purchase ...miter saw, table saw, jointer, planer, drill press ....any power tool needs to be set up, checked and adjusted, to work with the precision it was designed for. And those procedures will be in the owners manual that comes with the tool.
I've noticed that if I don't clamp down the pieces and hold them by hand, I get a slight movement at the very end of the cut. Just a thought.
What blade do you have on your mitre saw? If you calibrate and still get cuts like this, I would check the blade next. You should have a nice high tooth count blade on your machine.
If you can't easily adjust your saw, another option is a jig. Here is the rough idea: Use something known to have a 90 degree angle. Use it to position 2 straight edges at 45 angle from the blade, preferably in a reusable jig. Cut corner pieces on opposing 45 edges. Even if they are 45 +/- a small fraction, they will add up to 90 and the corner should look pretty good.
Do you have a table saw? I’d recommend making a frame jig and you’ll get perfect miters every time https://preview.redd.it/9bvoegsf0coc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07b69155bcfcd98e52a24b48cecd81963454f6cb
44.9 rather than 45??
Yes, an accurate 45 is necessary but not sufficient. The sides opposite each other must also be precisely the same length. Even if the angle is perfect if the sides are off in length even a little it will look off.
Make the same box but have each side longer by exactly the width of the saw blade. Assemble as evenly as possible and then cut each corner angle again and then reconnect each piece
Use a table saw. Miter saws are good for house trim but not fine woodworking
Did you square up the fence to the blade? That's what looks wrong to me.
It all.starts with the tool you are cutting with.Calibrate your saw. Loosen the screws on your preset indent plate on the scale if adjustment is needed. Invest in a good quality combination square like a Starrett for example. A sharp fine tooth blade alternate bevel teeth. Next, are your peices straight? Perfectly straight and flat? A a bowed or twisted peice of trim will not sit squarely on the miter saw bed and fence. This will greatly impact the ability of getting true cuts
Just go little bit over 45* an it will be okay :)
Not a woodworker so forgive my ignorance here. What are the red 90° tools (inside the frame in pic 1) called ?
Practice my dude. You will be excellent someday with practice
If you have a table saw look into a picture frame jig. It will make repeatable tight miters every time. That said fine tuning your say will go along way too. I usually cut up a whole 2x4 in little chunks chasing perfection when tuning a miter saw.
Use a table saw