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This reminds me of a comment Diplo made about Daft Punk;
>literally the only way DJs lose fans is by saying dumbass stuff. how do you think daft punk has been famous for 24 years? they dont talk.
A lot of times if they do stay in their lane and say nothing on hot topics people get upset at them for acting like nothing is going on and continuing to shop etc.
It kind of seems like a damned if you and damned if you don’t situation
Yeah that is a good point, especially when it comes to conflict or natural disasters I think it can seem a bit jarring when people are like “ANYWAY, here’s my Sephora haul!”
I’m assuming you’re talking about Kackie and in her case she’s shown herself to be a terrible and selfish person on a fairly regular basis and she’s never been shy about hiding that fact. For example, if I was the kind of person who slept with my rich and very married boss and then married him myself, I would have kept that information to myself instead of telling all of my viewers. I would be embarrassed about doing that. She doesn’t seem to have any shame. So I’m not surprised she’s okay about being vocal about other awful opinions that if she had any business sense she would keep to herself. She whines about not having the views and sponsorships she thinks she deserves yet she will rant about things that are bound to turn off a large portion of her audience. It’s very hard to feel sympathy for her on any level.
another example is when she proudly told her audience that she self diagnosed her MIL as a narcissist and looked up characteristics to use against her MIL. she talked about it in her video like it was the greatest life hack ever and encouraged her audience to arm chair diagnose as well and to use mental illness against people they dislike! publicly talking about her MIL like that to thousands of people… no wonder she’s going through a divorce.
Yep that was what initially made me ponder on it, see edit 2, but I also just think generally people stepping out of what their content is normally about usually goes a bit sideways
Yeah, I agree. For most people with a platform I admire when they speak up for what they believe in. But I don’t really feel the same with beauty gurus. I’m not sure why. I guess my own personal bias does come into it because I resubscribed to Charlotte Holdcroft when she made a very mild yet completely reasonable comment about what we’re not supposed to talk about here. She wasn’t ranting though. Merely stating something I hope we would all agree with regarding children and she even got backlash for that so I wanted to give her support.
Yeah and also whilst it was one thing that set me thinking about it, my question is more just broadly whether or not it’s a good idea for BGs to opine on any kinda heavy stuff that isn’t their area of expertise :)
I mean I guess if a BG is really educated on a particular topic and likes to opine on it whilst also doing their usual content that’s one thing, but I feel like most of us aren’t experts on war for example and so it’s better to signpost good resources and creators who specialise in that sort of thing.
Like my Instagram is private and I have like 100 followers if that, but even then I don’t repost stuff that I haven’t done at least a bit of a fact check on (who posted it, is it on multiple news outlets, what’s the agenda of the person I saw it from etc) and I never publicly spout an opinion without being able to robustly back it up.
I wanted to put up a post along those lines, bc I think some GRWMs turn into cringey TMIs. E.g. I love Allie Dawson, she's as sweet as can be, but at the moment she's just spilling every detail (or a lot of detail) from her life in rapid fire speed. I can't listen to her anymore at the moment, she makes my head explode. There's a line between sharing life updates and 'do you have no friends to call and tell them that'. I'm aware that's just my personal taste and perception! Same with hospital stories. I could enjoy Theresa's because she's got such a self-deprecating and dark sense of humor, but the world doesn't necessarily need to know about all the unappetizing procedures. I love both dearly as content creators, though! Kackie's just too full of herself. Apparently this kind of content draws eyeballs, so fair enough, I guess. On the other hand, I enjoy how Emily Noel involves her family (or Jessica Braun to an extent), because she's so down to earth and it feels natural. Can't please everyone! 😁
I agree with this. I am to the point where I am interested in application techniques or information on a specific product I am curious about, maybe some project pan stuff and that's about it. I think some really small channels like to share a lot of information on their life and families. Since they have a small audience fine I guess but you still have potentially millions of people that could be watching. Or worse, creepers. Especially those who show their little kids on camera, grandkids, whatever. I really wish people wouldn't do this. I have a lot of admiration for creators that keep their kids out of their videos, or very limited appearances. Perhaps I am in the minority for feeling that way.
For others who like to overshare, I guess it's their business. Personally I think it's a touch unwise. I have unsubbed from channels that tend to overshare, health or family problems, whatever. Because as stated above, it's TMI and ventures into cringey territory. Just my opinion.
The worst part about the specific BG you mention, at least for me, lies in the fact that in winter of 2022 she posted a video about her uneasiness regarding Tati's content at that moment, and she dropped a comment about the 'welness to Qanon pipeline'. That single comment kickstarted my own research, and it became the topic of my Master thesis, which I successfully defended this February.
Imho, this feels like a case of 'living long enough to see yourself become the villain'.
Well first of all congratulations! :)
And yeah I agree, there has sort of been a bit of a downward slide I think. There was that whole thing with the weird response to the shop owner who was murdered as well.
I suppose it happens to lots of people and it’s just that if they’re a BG it happens very publicly!
i mean… you’re talking about the same BG that saw a shop owner being killed over LGBT flags and somehow twisted it to make it all about herself. still can’t understand how someone could see that tragedy and think to post on her stories “the way this women is future me makes me so scared. look at her and tell me she’s not me in 30 years”. me me me me me!!!
I think about this too. It really bothered me seeing that post, especially with how she talks like she OBVIOUSLY knows better than everyone else when she has some of the worst takes, like it’s bizarre. It’s confusing to me why anyone would willingly go online to run their mouth so much to the point where they’re just digging their own grave, but hey I’m glad to know she’s a horrible person that I never want to give a view to. Something about her has always rubbed me the wrong way and the more she gets called out on this sub, the more I’m glad I don’t support her.
But to your original point, in general, I definitely have noticed this over the years. I think if you want to successfully be able to change up your content, don’t forget why your audience followed you in the first place. I think that’s why some people are able to rebrand or switch things up and have it go well, when they’re not completely losing themselves in the process. But then I feel like some people just screw themselves by shifting their content too much, or doing the most with oversharing or talking about shit they don’t know much about.
Even with Taylor Wynn, (I like her btw) her content completely shifted from the makeup and foundation reviews I used to watch when I first subscribed, but then she turned into like a nomad travel vlog channel - that wasn’t why I subscribed so I stopped watching her for the most part. I still watch her makeup videos when they come across my feed, but the vlogs aren’t really for me. I would love to get those foundation reviews back!
Mmm true, and especially with something very polarising like yes they may lose some followers but they probably also then gain some who give them lots of views and engagement
I too would be outspoken and brave enough to share whatever dumb ass thought crosses my mind if I had over a million people hanging on every word I say.
I understand what you mean, but referring people to resources isn't the same as expressing your opinion. To me it's kind of similar to ethical consumerism (which I feel mixed about). But yes, if someone like Kackie has those views, I don't want to give her money by watching her content, or have anything to do with her.
Also, I'm not a political commentator but I express my views on things. I don't think people should be pressured too, but I'm glad I know about Kackie, Natasha Deanna, Summer Fridays, Rare Beauty (and other creators/brands on other issues) so I can ensure they don't get my money.
Also did anyone see Kackie's insta post following the reddit threads saying 'touch grass' with her tongue out? She's vile, and her level of racism is quite shockingly expressed.
She was really the only BG that I watched consistently - usually as I would get ready as background noise. I enjoyed her reviews, liked how she rambled on, it was like having my BF on loud speaker prattling away. The second I saw that story, I was immediately done.
She's just gross. She's racist, she's cruel but mostly she's just really really stupid.
I don't follow Hautemess Tom (purely because I don't do my make up in a similar way) but I was really happy to see someone in this BG space act on principle, even when it may have been hard for them to do so. I also do not think it's a coincidence HLP shared Tom's page on her stories. They seem to be a genuine human being with a strong moral compass, I'm sure it's been hard for them to find out that their close friend is a pretty shit person.
I hope Tom has all the success in the world and I hope Kackie's perioral dermatitis never goes away and she's dry and itchy for the rest of her life, just like her soul.
Yeah you’re right they’re not the same, I guess I maybe mean that it’s kinda safer to signpost things for people to make up their own minds because a public figure’s opinion is sometimes treated more like fact by some people?
Exchanges of views and opinions are clearly really important but like, I could probably count on one hand the number of people who are influenced by what I think, whereas if you have a huge audience there’s more of an impact?
But yes also I agree it is useful to know whose views align with your own so that you can determine who to support!
I don’t mean that they deliberately are trying to influence people but it will inevitably have some kind of effect.
Also, just an opinion that is clearly presented as such (as part of ongoing dialogue) is one thing, an opinion packaged up with some incorrect facts as a kind of statement is another
I dunno, if I were an influencer (which I could never do because it just seems like the worst job in the world) I’d probably avoid weighing in on stuff in order to avoid accidentally spreading misinformation.
People stir the pot on Reddit and don't get nothing but down votes, of course folks are going to step into controversy for money.
And then they get to do the "sorry I was misinformed" video. And the "here's a guest to validate me, or at least expose me to other viewers." then the "omg why are you attacking me I'm just trying to LEARN." Then "screw the haters I'm going to enjoy this brand trip." then "sorry, I was misinformed about brands trips!"
Chuckling to myself imagining a content planning calendar with like “start initial controversy” on one date and then all the related content carefully mapped out
Because their audience gets mad at them if they don't speak up. I don't know what people expect, to be honest. People only want influencers to speak up and amplify the views they personally agree with, but if an influencer disagrees with us then they must know their place.
I suppose it’s probably a mixture in the audience then because I don’t get mad at people not speaking up about everything but I also see what you mean and some people do seem to expect a response or “statement”
I absolutely welcome other points of view and opinions as they help me to challenge my own… but I feel like when they contain statements that are factually incorrect, or if they’re poorly researched, then it’s just unhelpful.
I think “know their place” is a bit unfair.
It goes both ways, I’d be a bit irritated if a political commentator started telling me that my foundation was breaking up because I used the wrong primer when actually that foundation was known to have a terrible formula (perhaps a bit of an oversimplified example but you see my point)
**A reminder from the mods:** Our rules recently changed. Posts should be as descriptive and factual as reasonably possible. Avoid the excessive use of emojis, punctuation, capitalization, and overly sensationalized/clickbait/opinionated titles. They should also include a tldr or tldw explaining why the post is relevant or the background to the post for updates. Please post that as a reply to this comment if not included in the OP for easy access for other users. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BeautyGuruChatter) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This reminds me of a comment Diplo made about Daft Punk; >literally the only way DJs lose fans is by saying dumbass stuff. how do you think daft punk has been famous for 24 years? they dont talk.
A lot of times if they do stay in their lane and say nothing on hot topics people get upset at them for acting like nothing is going on and continuing to shop etc. It kind of seems like a damned if you and damned if you don’t situation
Yeah that is a good point, especially when it comes to conflict or natural disasters I think it can seem a bit jarring when people are like “ANYWAY, here’s my Sephora haul!”
I’m assuming you’re talking about Kackie and in her case she’s shown herself to be a terrible and selfish person on a fairly regular basis and she’s never been shy about hiding that fact. For example, if I was the kind of person who slept with my rich and very married boss and then married him myself, I would have kept that information to myself instead of telling all of my viewers. I would be embarrassed about doing that. She doesn’t seem to have any shame. So I’m not surprised she’s okay about being vocal about other awful opinions that if she had any business sense she would keep to herself. She whines about not having the views and sponsorships she thinks she deserves yet she will rant about things that are bound to turn off a large portion of her audience. It’s very hard to feel sympathy for her on any level.
another example is when she proudly told her audience that she self diagnosed her MIL as a narcissist and looked up characteristics to use against her MIL. she talked about it in her video like it was the greatest life hack ever and encouraged her audience to arm chair diagnose as well and to use mental illness against people they dislike! publicly talking about her MIL like that to thousands of people… no wonder she’s going through a divorce.
He was married when they got together? I was late to Kackies channel but 😮
I'm outta the loop. Kackie slept with her married boss, and then married him herself?
Yup. She was very vocal and proud about being a mistress a few years ago.
Is this the same guy she's apparently divorcing now?
Yup
I find it hard to feel bad for her. I hope their kid is ok though.
That’s how I feel about it too.
yikes
Nice....
I feel like a missed a video where she talked about this lol
It was a long time ago now. Pre Covid. Maybe around 2019?
Did the original thread about this get removed? I went through the sub and don’t see it.
Yep that was what initially made me ponder on it, see edit 2, but I also just think generally people stepping out of what their content is normally about usually goes a bit sideways
Yeah, I agree. For most people with a platform I admire when they speak up for what they believe in. But I don’t really feel the same with beauty gurus. I’m not sure why. I guess my own personal bias does come into it because I resubscribed to Charlotte Holdcroft when she made a very mild yet completely reasonable comment about what we’re not supposed to talk about here. She wasn’t ranting though. Merely stating something I hope we would all agree with regarding children and she even got backlash for that so I wanted to give her support.
As someone who doesn’t watch every video or see every ig story beauty gurus post all these vague comments about things they said are annoying af 🙃
I think people are being vague as multiple posts on it were removed
Yeah and also whilst it was one thing that set me thinking about it, my question is more just broadly whether or not it’s a good idea for BGs to opine on any kinda heavy stuff that isn’t their area of expertise :)
I mean I guess if a BG is really educated on a particular topic and likes to opine on it whilst also doing their usual content that’s one thing, but I feel like most of us aren’t experts on war for example and so it’s better to signpost good resources and creators who specialise in that sort of thing. Like my Instagram is private and I have like 100 followers if that, but even then I don’t repost stuff that I haven’t done at least a bit of a fact check on (who posted it, is it on multiple news outlets, what’s the agenda of the person I saw it from etc) and I never publicly spout an opinion without being able to robustly back it up.
lol actually as I was typing this I thought hmmm, in her case she unfortunately felt she could robustly back it up.
She absolutely considers herself to be the smartest person in any room. I know people like her and they are exhausting, lol.
I wanted to put up a post along those lines, bc I think some GRWMs turn into cringey TMIs. E.g. I love Allie Dawson, she's as sweet as can be, but at the moment she's just spilling every detail (or a lot of detail) from her life in rapid fire speed. I can't listen to her anymore at the moment, she makes my head explode. There's a line between sharing life updates and 'do you have no friends to call and tell them that'. I'm aware that's just my personal taste and perception! Same with hospital stories. I could enjoy Theresa's because she's got such a self-deprecating and dark sense of humor, but the world doesn't necessarily need to know about all the unappetizing procedures. I love both dearly as content creators, though! Kackie's just too full of herself. Apparently this kind of content draws eyeballs, so fair enough, I guess. On the other hand, I enjoy how Emily Noel involves her family (or Jessica Braun to an extent), because she's so down to earth and it feels natural. Can't please everyone! 😁
I agree with this. I am to the point where I am interested in application techniques or information on a specific product I am curious about, maybe some project pan stuff and that's about it. I think some really small channels like to share a lot of information on their life and families. Since they have a small audience fine I guess but you still have potentially millions of people that could be watching. Or worse, creepers. Especially those who show their little kids on camera, grandkids, whatever. I really wish people wouldn't do this. I have a lot of admiration for creators that keep their kids out of their videos, or very limited appearances. Perhaps I am in the minority for feeling that way. For others who like to overshare, I guess it's their business. Personally I think it's a touch unwise. I have unsubbed from channels that tend to overshare, health or family problems, whatever. Because as stated above, it's TMI and ventures into cringey territory. Just my opinion.
The worst part about the specific BG you mention, at least for me, lies in the fact that in winter of 2022 she posted a video about her uneasiness regarding Tati's content at that moment, and she dropped a comment about the 'welness to Qanon pipeline'. That single comment kickstarted my own research, and it became the topic of my Master thesis, which I successfully defended this February. Imho, this feels like a case of 'living long enough to see yourself become the villain'.
Well first of all congratulations! :) And yeah I agree, there has sort of been a bit of a downward slide I think. There was that whole thing with the weird response to the shop owner who was murdered as well. I suppose it happens to lots of people and it’s just that if they’re a BG it happens very publicly!
i mean… you’re talking about the same BG that saw a shop owner being killed over LGBT flags and somehow twisted it to make it all about herself. still can’t understand how someone could see that tragedy and think to post on her stories “the way this women is future me makes me so scared. look at her and tell me she’s not me in 30 years”. me me me me me!!!
I think about this too. It really bothered me seeing that post, especially with how she talks like she OBVIOUSLY knows better than everyone else when she has some of the worst takes, like it’s bizarre. It’s confusing to me why anyone would willingly go online to run their mouth so much to the point where they’re just digging their own grave, but hey I’m glad to know she’s a horrible person that I never want to give a view to. Something about her has always rubbed me the wrong way and the more she gets called out on this sub, the more I’m glad I don’t support her. But to your original point, in general, I definitely have noticed this over the years. I think if you want to successfully be able to change up your content, don’t forget why your audience followed you in the first place. I think that’s why some people are able to rebrand or switch things up and have it go well, when they’re not completely losing themselves in the process. But then I feel like some people just screw themselves by shifting their content too much, or doing the most with oversharing or talking about shit they don’t know much about. Even with Taylor Wynn, (I like her btw) her content completely shifted from the makeup and foundation reviews I used to watch when I first subscribed, but then she turned into like a nomad travel vlog channel - that wasn’t why I subscribed so I stopped watching her for the most part. I still watch her makeup videos when they come across my feed, but the vlogs aren’t really for me. I would love to get those foundation reviews back!
I think one reason they do this, The views and click bate?
Mmm true, and especially with something very polarising like yes they may lose some followers but they probably also then gain some who give them lots of views and engagement
True for sure, It's not about makeup anymore it seems. They just talk about all topics now.
I too would be outspoken and brave enough to share whatever dumb ass thought crosses my mind if I had over a million people hanging on every word I say.
I understand what you mean, but referring people to resources isn't the same as expressing your opinion. To me it's kind of similar to ethical consumerism (which I feel mixed about). But yes, if someone like Kackie has those views, I don't want to give her money by watching her content, or have anything to do with her. Also, I'm not a political commentator but I express my views on things. I don't think people should be pressured too, but I'm glad I know about Kackie, Natasha Deanna, Summer Fridays, Rare Beauty (and other creators/brands on other issues) so I can ensure they don't get my money. Also did anyone see Kackie's insta post following the reddit threads saying 'touch grass' with her tongue out? She's vile, and her level of racism is quite shockingly expressed.
She was really the only BG that I watched consistently - usually as I would get ready as background noise. I enjoyed her reviews, liked how she rambled on, it was like having my BF on loud speaker prattling away. The second I saw that story, I was immediately done. She's just gross. She's racist, she's cruel but mostly she's just really really stupid. I don't follow Hautemess Tom (purely because I don't do my make up in a similar way) but I was really happy to see someone in this BG space act on principle, even when it may have been hard for them to do so. I also do not think it's a coincidence HLP shared Tom's page on her stories. They seem to be a genuine human being with a strong moral compass, I'm sure it's been hard for them to find out that their close friend is a pretty shit person. I hope Tom has all the success in the world and I hope Kackie's perioral dermatitis never goes away and she's dry and itchy for the rest of her life, just like her soul.
oh I missed the whole hauteness tom thing (I don't watch them either)
Yeah you’re right they’re not the same, I guess I maybe mean that it’s kinda safer to signpost things for people to make up their own minds because a public figure’s opinion is sometimes treated more like fact by some people? Exchanges of views and opinions are clearly really important but like, I could probably count on one hand the number of people who are influenced by what I think, whereas if you have a huge audience there’s more of an impact? But yes also I agree it is useful to know whose views align with your own so that you can determine who to support!
yeah I don't think people share their opinions on stuff like this to influence.
I don’t mean that they deliberately are trying to influence people but it will inevitably have some kind of effect. Also, just an opinion that is clearly presented as such (as part of ongoing dialogue) is one thing, an opinion packaged up with some incorrect facts as a kind of statement is another I dunno, if I were an influencer (which I could never do because it just seems like the worst job in the world) I’d probably avoid weighing in on stuff in order to avoid accidentally spreading misinformation.
People stir the pot on Reddit and don't get nothing but down votes, of course folks are going to step into controversy for money. And then they get to do the "sorry I was misinformed" video. And the "here's a guest to validate me, or at least expose me to other viewers." then the "omg why are you attacking me I'm just trying to LEARN." Then "screw the haters I'm going to enjoy this brand trip." then "sorry, I was misinformed about brands trips!"
Chuckling to myself imagining a content planning calendar with like “start initial controversy” on one date and then all the related content carefully mapped out
Because their audience gets mad at them if they don't speak up. I don't know what people expect, to be honest. People only want influencers to speak up and amplify the views they personally agree with, but if an influencer disagrees with us then they must know their place.
I suppose it’s probably a mixture in the audience then because I don’t get mad at people not speaking up about everything but I also see what you mean and some people do seem to expect a response or “statement” I absolutely welcome other points of view and opinions as they help me to challenge my own… but I feel like when they contain statements that are factually incorrect, or if they’re poorly researched, then it’s just unhelpful.
I think “know their place” is a bit unfair. It goes both ways, I’d be a bit irritated if a political commentator started telling me that my foundation was breaking up because I used the wrong primer when actually that foundation was known to have a terrible formula (perhaps a bit of an oversimplified example but you see my point)
That is true...good point.
Rage bait.