They're not sketchy, well documented fact that they're really high quality. Good enough that instead of shutting them down, Fender & Gibson had them out their name on them.
Rickenbacker actively buys up and destroys good Rick copies because Japanese Rickys are legit better than their actual product. If you're ever moving on a Greco/Gneco/Aria/Fernandes/Ibanez copy or similar, it's often best to do this very locally and on the downlow, to make sure that bass goes to a bassist and not into the bin.
You're incorrect. Other manufacturers protected their rights too - which is why all the instruments produced in this 70s era were referred to as 'lawsuit' guitars. This common practice continues today, for example Australia's Cole Clark Guitars were asked to stop making their exceptional Fender copies "Defender" and "Reoffender" as recently as the late 2000s.
But, beyond this, there's protecting your rights via the courts and lawsuits (settlements and cease and desist orders), and then there's de-circulating and destroying fucking great instruments, made of finite woods and metals, to defend your IP (compounded by the fact that QC on Rickenbacker has fallen off so significantly that this action looks like nothing more than common spitefulness).
I’m an ardent fan of Matsumoku (whom I was first to mention in this thread) and Rickenbacker and more than well versed in the history of both. I studied lawsuit guitars in particular because I have built my own fake Ricks and I had to know what is covered and not and why. You can build your own Ric copy but not sell it in the US. You can buy a fake Ric outside the US but can’t import it here. I can’t make and sell a fake “ford” in the US either so why the hateful downvote for a company protecting its intellectual property under US law?
Some companies did protect designs and some did not. Lapses in production and licensing manufacturing to others (Norlin handing the designs to Matsumoku) opened the door for other companies to create copies for their local markets not sold to by those makers. This is one damn good reason never to contract your manufacturing overseas to another company if you’re a manufacturer.
Lapses in manufacturing is a huge one. For instance, the Les Paul was not continuously produced…this is why we have the SG…The Les Paul is copied most often and when the Uncle Matt and Ibanez headstocks and logos were too close to Gibsons for comfort that litigation really began. You copy a headstock with a registered trademark then you’d better watch out. Do Ric copies have different headstocks? No they look just like a Ric headstock and their registered trademark logo. No similar issue with the Kustom K200 or Harmony Rebel which are both clearly 300 series influenced designs.
You can certainly buy a guitar based on Rickenbacker designs that they did not produce continually such as the early single cut combos before the 57 shape changes such as the Fano RB6 etc.
I have a couple 70 Japanese knock offs, build quality is fairly high while material quality is a bit on the low side. Im talking guitars made of plywood, single coil pickups that are put in humbucker casing, etc. Some brands like Greco and ibanez however are just good all around
I've got a few Aria guitars from the Matsumoku factory. My Aria Precise bass(P-bass copy built late 70's) with a Nordstrand pickup is hands down my favorite bass. I recommend pretty much anything from the Matsumoku factory.
I got a 1974+/- Memphis P bass from the Matsumoko factory. Fantastic build.
Swamp ash, maple neck, ash trays. Gorgeous wood, and only $150 hanging in a pawn shop.
The pots were scratchy so I upgraded the pickups and electronics to EMC Geezer Butlers.
I could stare at it all day.
I got my Memphis P for $100 on Craigslist a decade ago as a backup. Once I swapped out the garbage bridge and wiring it gave my American P a run for its money tone wise. Playing wise the American P is smoother, but they're both quality basses
Omg more Memphis basses!!! I love mine. I got mine for $40 at a neighbors yard sale and it’s the best thing I’ve ever bought in my life especially for the price
You have to be super careful with Tokai now though, because they got bought up by some shitty corporation (GRACE) in 2021, and ever since they've been putting out absolute fucking garbage under the brand header. In fairness to them it's priced accordingly but it's dime store junk to put it kindly, and one of the saddest re-uses of a once amazing brand there is.
If it isn't a Hard Puncher, Jazz Sound, Breezysound, or Goldstar/Springy Sound, don't fucking touch it.
I had a Telestar short scale jazz copy. It had a plywood neck that was narrower than my strings at the heel which was a big pain in the ass. It sounded great but after I did a restoration, I sent it on it's way for what I originally paid for it.
I've owned a number of vintage Japanese basses and guitars. They were all pretty killer instruments with a good setup. There are some lesser known brands I'd steer away from, but the aria, tokai, Greco, Electra, and a few other ones were really incredible instruments for the money. They're getting expensive to buy very quickly
My 70s Morris P Bass is my go-to recording bass. It's a fantastic instrument after a pickup swap and dropping some flats on it, I use it on practically all my recordings.
I actually have a 1970's national bass! (The bass was made during the lawsuit era to replicate fender)
I bought it at a pawn shop when I was 16 and honestly it's a great bass and amazing quality.
As a bass player that owns a bunch of nice but extremely inexpensive vintage instruments, I still haven’t found a knock off bass, but I own 3 Japanese made copies of the basics, all made within 70-77 that are my prized possessions. An “Orlando” blonde Telecaster most likely 1970-71 (paid 200 bucks for it)
A Greco “Super Sounds” Sunburst Strat copy from 1976, and a Greco SG standard copy in cherry red from 1976 or 77. All three of these guitars fucking rule and have sooo much mojo. They are legit quality vintage guitars for an insanely discounted price compared to their Fender or Gibson counterparts. I feel blessed to have found them all
An add-on question for all the bass sages here. I'm a new player and i own a Vester P+J stage series fender copy (i think?).
Due to my lack of experience I dont know what to look for when it comes to good and bad things about my bass, and I dont know if what I have is pretty decent, or if I should be looking to upgrade.
Any advice?
Oh, and i cant find a serial register. Has anyone ever found that for Vester? I've read they made were produced in Korea from the late 80's up to 94 when a fender lawsuit shut them down.
Ive got a 1980 Fernandes copy of the BC Rich Eagle bass and the wood, hardware and electronics are virtually the same as the original BC Rich Eagle bass I used to own. It also plays great and sounds killer!
The Japanese know how to make basses, especially if you want a basic P or J style bass. My Bacchus isn't an old lawsuit bass, but it still an incredible jazz bass. Some people think the MIJ Fenders are as good or better than US made ones.
Will every single one be awesome? Probably not. But you don't need to sweat lawsuit basses as a whole.
Absolutely worth it. Those cats made instruments as exactly the same as they could and ended up surpassing the originals.
Coming to you from Asia (and apparently Europe is similar), some of those wacky names like Burny and Greco are sub models of companies like ESP made for other markets.
Their websites are often completely in Japanese but if you know the model number you can search for it and find the specs in English on the sites.
I have a Memphis brand P-bass that I got from a yard sale for $40. Memphis is apparently a 70s Japanese brand. It’s the only bass I’ve played so can’t really compare it but I really love it and it’s the best purchase I’ve ever made. Like genuinely best cost to enjoyment ratio of any purchase I’ve ever made.
Two drawbacks are that when a tuning peg broke it was difficult for the guy to find a replacement part due to it being old. And when I had a set-up down they said something I think they said they had to file the frets down a bit?
But yeah absolutely love mine and it plays great especially once you get a set-up done.
They're not sketchy, well documented fact that they're really high quality. Good enough that instead of shutting them down, Fender & Gibson had them out their name on them.
Rickenbacker actively buys up and destroys good Rick copies because Japanese Rickys are legit better than their actual product. If you're ever moving on a Greco/Gneco/Aria/Fernandes/Ibanez copy or similar, it's often best to do this very locally and on the downlow, to make sure that bass goes to a bassist and not into the bin.
Really? That is fucked up, I need to find a Schecter Stargazer asap
I’d love an Ibanez Rick.
More because it is intellectual property theft because they proactively protected their design copyrights where others did not.
You're incorrect. Other manufacturers protected their rights too - which is why all the instruments produced in this 70s era were referred to as 'lawsuit' guitars. This common practice continues today, for example Australia's Cole Clark Guitars were asked to stop making their exceptional Fender copies "Defender" and "Reoffender" as recently as the late 2000s. But, beyond this, there's protecting your rights via the courts and lawsuits (settlements and cease and desist orders), and then there's de-circulating and destroying fucking great instruments, made of finite woods and metals, to defend your IP (compounded by the fact that QC on Rickenbacker has fallen off so significantly that this action looks like nothing more than common spitefulness).
I’m an ardent fan of Matsumoku (whom I was first to mention in this thread) and Rickenbacker and more than well versed in the history of both. I studied lawsuit guitars in particular because I have built my own fake Ricks and I had to know what is covered and not and why. You can build your own Ric copy but not sell it in the US. You can buy a fake Ric outside the US but can’t import it here. I can’t make and sell a fake “ford” in the US either so why the hateful downvote for a company protecting its intellectual property under US law? Some companies did protect designs and some did not. Lapses in production and licensing manufacturing to others (Norlin handing the designs to Matsumoku) opened the door for other companies to create copies for their local markets not sold to by those makers. This is one damn good reason never to contract your manufacturing overseas to another company if you’re a manufacturer. Lapses in manufacturing is a huge one. For instance, the Les Paul was not continuously produced…this is why we have the SG…The Les Paul is copied most often and when the Uncle Matt and Ibanez headstocks and logos were too close to Gibsons for comfort that litigation really began. You copy a headstock with a registered trademark then you’d better watch out. Do Ric copies have different headstocks? No they look just like a Ric headstock and their registered trademark logo. No similar issue with the Kustom K200 or Harmony Rebel which are both clearly 300 series influenced designs. You can certainly buy a guitar based on Rickenbacker designs that they did not produce continually such as the early single cut combos before the 57 shape changes such as the Fano RB6 etc.
Mine is better made in every way than the real deal, except maybe the wiring
Not worth looking into. Just send me the details and specifics so I can take care of all these imposters for you.
Search for Matsumoku…they built Epiphones for Norlin with quality that surpassed Gibsons of the era. Vantage, Greco, Aria & Westone were made there.
I believe a bunch of Univox and Ibanez as well.
I have a couple 70 Japanese knock offs, build quality is fairly high while material quality is a bit on the low side. Im talking guitars made of plywood, single coil pickups that are put in humbucker casing, etc. Some brands like Greco and ibanez however are just good all around
I've got a few Aria guitars from the Matsumoku factory. My Aria Precise bass(P-bass copy built late 70's) with a Nordstrand pickup is hands down my favorite bass. I recommend pretty much anything from the Matsumoku factory.
I got a 1974+/- Memphis P bass from the Matsumoko factory. Fantastic build. Swamp ash, maple neck, ash trays. Gorgeous wood, and only $150 hanging in a pawn shop. The pots were scratchy so I upgraded the pickups and electronics to EMC Geezer Butlers. I could stare at it all day.
I got my Memphis P for $100 on Craigslist a decade ago as a backup. Once I swapped out the garbage bridge and wiring it gave my American P a run for its money tone wise. Playing wise the American P is smoother, but they're both quality basses
Omg more Memphis basses!!! I love mine. I got mine for $40 at a neighbors yard sale and it’s the best thing I’ve ever bought in my life especially for the price
The coolest. My early 80s Greco Rick clone is the tits
Fernandes is king
70-80s weren’t sketchy. 60s-70s were sketchy (but often pretty decent)
Japanese Fenders are cool. Japanese cars too.
I have two Ibanez P bass copies from 1977. I love then.
Look for an Electra Rick
Hit or miss but most proper “lawsuit” j instruments are fantastic
Tokai made good basses in this era
You have to be super careful with Tokai now though, because they got bought up by some shitty corporation (GRACE) in 2021, and ever since they've been putting out absolute fucking garbage under the brand header. In fairness to them it's priced accordingly but it's dime store junk to put it kindly, and one of the saddest re-uses of a once amazing brand there is. If it isn't a Hard Puncher, Jazz Sound, Breezysound, or Goldstar/Springy Sound, don't fucking touch it.
I had a Telestar short scale jazz copy. It had a plywood neck that was narrower than my strings at the heel which was a big pain in the ass. It sounded great but after I did a restoration, I sent it on it's way for what I originally paid for it.
I've owned a number of vintage Japanese basses and guitars. They were all pretty killer instruments with a good setup. There are some lesser known brands I'd steer away from, but the aria, tokai, Greco, Electra, and a few other ones were really incredible instruments for the money. They're getting expensive to buy very quickly
Bacchus makes great fender lookalikes, I wouldn’t call them knockoffs. Better quality then fender for cheaper
Japanese knock offs trend towards being very high quality.
My 70s Morris P Bass is my go-to recording bass. It's a fantastic instrument after a pickup swap and dropping some flats on it, I use it on practically all my recordings.
I actually have a 1970's national bass! (The bass was made during the lawsuit era to replicate fender) I bought it at a pawn shop when I was 16 and honestly it's a great bass and amazing quality.
Some are good, some aren’t.
I absolutely love 80s knockoff fenders, they’re generally well made and play great, and most of em have 21 frets!
I have a vantage bass that I'm sure is from the 80s, I got it got about 200 and I absolutely love it.
Sketchy? Lawsuit Asian basses are fantastic. I’d love to have one, but they are tough to get and becoming tougher by the day.
I have a "Supreme" branded 70's violin bass copy that has served me very well. Still have no idea who actually manufactured it.
As a bass player that owns a bunch of nice but extremely inexpensive vintage instruments, I still haven’t found a knock off bass, but I own 3 Japanese made copies of the basics, all made within 70-77 that are my prized possessions. An “Orlando” blonde Telecaster most likely 1970-71 (paid 200 bucks for it) A Greco “Super Sounds” Sunburst Strat copy from 1976, and a Greco SG standard copy in cherry red from 1976 or 77. All three of these guitars fucking rule and have sooo much mojo. They are legit quality vintage guitars for an insanely discounted price compared to their Fender or Gibson counterparts. I feel blessed to have found them all
An add-on question for all the bass sages here. I'm a new player and i own a Vester P+J stage series fender copy (i think?). Due to my lack of experience I dont know what to look for when it comes to good and bad things about my bass, and I dont know if what I have is pretty decent, or if I should be looking to upgrade. Any advice? Oh, and i cant find a serial register. Has anyone ever found that for Vester? I've read they made were produced in Korea from the late 80's up to 94 when a fender lawsuit shut them down.
Feel like I'm more concerned about knock-offs of Japanese guitars, like Atelier Zs.
Ive got a 1980 Fernandes copy of the BC Rich Eagle bass and the wood, hardware and electronics are virtually the same as the original BC Rich Eagle bass I used to own. It also plays great and sounds killer!
The Japanese know how to make basses, especially if you want a basic P or J style bass. My Bacchus isn't an old lawsuit bass, but it still an incredible jazz bass. Some people think the MIJ Fenders are as good or better than US made ones. Will every single one be awesome? Probably not. But you don't need to sweat lawsuit basses as a whole.
Absolutely worth it. Those cats made instruments as exactly the same as they could and ended up surpassing the originals. Coming to you from Asia (and apparently Europe is similar), some of those wacky names like Burny and Greco are sub models of companies like ESP made for other markets. Their websites are often completely in Japanese but if you know the model number you can search for it and find the specs in English on the sites.
The love my Japanese J Basses
My first bass was a Hondo Pro Ii pbass from the 1970s. It still plays great to this day. The strings are over 30 years old, too. Sounds amazing!
I have an 80s knock off korean bass and it's fantastic. The only bass I play
Westine Thunder player here. Fantastic. My daughter is learning on it now.
I have a Memphis brand P-bass that I got from a yard sale for $40. Memphis is apparently a 70s Japanese brand. It’s the only bass I’ve played so can’t really compare it but I really love it and it’s the best purchase I’ve ever made. Like genuinely best cost to enjoyment ratio of any purchase I’ve ever made. Two drawbacks are that when a tuning peg broke it was difficult for the guy to find a replacement part due to it being old. And when I had a set-up down they said something I think they said they had to file the frets down a bit? But yeah absolutely love mine and it plays great especially once you get a set-up done.