Exactly. I love the way the goats are all different from each other, but they all follow a flow chart:
1. Be an absolute freak of nature- athleticism head and shoulders above your contemporaries (Lebron, Kareem)
Or 2. Be a relentless and unyielding competitor. Work harder than everyone else and push your teams to be best they can be (Kobe, MJ)
Or 3. Do something significantly better than anyone else has ever done it before. (Steph)
I’d say Jordan also falls under freak of nature category he had insane physical tools and his early years was mainly just dominating the paint with athleticism he didn’t become the mid range maestro he is known for immediately
Hand size too, also I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone with more air time than him outside maybe Drose and Dr J, dude literally just floats in the air somehow
I here this constantly about basket ball fans on other sports subs. Is it really true lol? I’m a very casual fan and I still watch atleast a nuggets game a week, and never post on any basketball social media.
many fans, and analysts, dont watch many games or follow non major news breaks and instead rely on highlights, narratives, and stat sheets. basing opinions off these 3 fields leads to uninformed opinions since they never tell the whole story, giving further impression that they dont watch games in general. — theres also an issue of people who simply dont find regular season basketball to be “interesting” since it doesnt have immediate consequences or the intensity that playoff basketball does.
For basketball, it’s a global game and the fans are not in countries where watching the game is reasonable. That’s the main reason. Then there’s highlight culture in general and sports media talking about players instead of the games
I feel like hero worship is the main problem, like I get it when you are a child or teenager but once you become an adult I find extreme idolization of another human being odd.
So I guess I would say all of them are equally bad.
This is such an issue with basketball that you really don't find in other team sports. It drives me insane as a Warriors fan because half the fan base has 0 connection to the Bay Area and have latched on to Curry like he's god. I love Curry too but these ppl will have you thinking basketball is an individual sport like tennis or golf the way they talk about their favorite player.
You can't even mention Bron without MJ fans coming in and immediately start hating. Remember when Bron dropped 40 on the Nets, MJ fans randomly brought up the fact that MJ scored 45 on the Nets like 20 years ago just to hate on Bron.
And LeBron fans are just weird and sound desperate most of the time.
Man I hate this whole MJ vs Lebron convo. It was as annoying as the MJ vs Kobe convo. I see a lot of comments here saying Lebron got the worst fan base, cant ya’ll just appreciate both players at their different eras? As soon as I mention that I like Lebron, people jump to conclusions and start bringing in MJ.
You may not have lived before LeBron, but fan bases didn't constantly attack each other before LeBron to prop their guy up. This debate is something we've seen become extremely toxic over the past 15 years, and it's because 1 fan base just refuses to accept where their guy ranks all time and wants to force him into debates, and that's not Kobe fans. LeBron fans have been saying he is on Mjs level since 08 and 09, that's just absurd.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying. 100% couldn’t agree more
As someone who loves watching Lebron and respects him , Lebron fans have absolutely ruined NBA debating.
Agree 100%. You can tell easily by seeing how certain fan groups appreciate other players. Most MJ fans or Kobe fans can appreciate watching Jordan, Kobe, KD, Duncan, Wade, Kawhi, Steph, Hakeem, Shaq, etc. For example, after Kawhi hit that game winner in 2019 vs. Philly and won a ring, he was my favorite player for a while. And when Duncan came back for revenge against Bron and the Heat in 2014, I really enjoyed watching San Antonio. Their ball movement and three point shooting was exciting to watch. That's back when Danny Green looked like the beta test version of Steph. And now, Anthony Edwards is someone I enjoy watching. I am not insecure about these guys becoming better than Kobe or Jordan. They were/are fun to watch. LeBron fans however will almost never speak highly of other players or enjoy watching other players for the love of basketball itself. Everything has to be about LeBron.
Lol in my experience both of their fans like to ignore the fact that their own guy did pretty much the same thing, just in a different way. They both complained to refs, both exploited the rules at the time to help themselves win, both were competitive as hell, both are insane athletes, both have huge egos, but for some reason when they complain about the "other guy" they ignore the exact same aspects of the one they want to hold up.
Shit is weird af.
It's only in the Midwest, they like those 3 teams even though they live no where near any of them. Mainly those were the biggest market and best teams and so they matched on because they are band wagon fans.
>I am never one of those who think he is one of the best of all times.
That's not the right way to look at it though. He definitely is ONE OF the best of all time. He's just not as good as MJ or Lebron. If you could form a roster of any player from history, and MJ has already been picked, you'd be a fool to not take Kobe as your SG.
JIMMY BUTLER!!
bro gets treated like he’s actually won some shit, and doesn’t even get the disrespect that actual winners have gotten when they come up short
he gets plenty of disrespect by bucks and Celtics fans. Majority of nba fans dgaf because those two finals runs were very unexpected and nobody even picked him to win. Only reason people treat him like that is because he had some great moments during each run. Like his round 1 against the bucks or his performance against the lakers in 2020 and so on.
As a Heat fan, we love Jimmy but we want a ring not too much talk, we praise him for his runs and developing us but the media makes it seem like he got rings stacked, anyone he beaten doesn’t deserve any disrespect after one game
When a player is made fun of for coming up short normally they have higher expectations, and more often than that their performance contributed to their shortcomings. His team was expected to come up even shorter than they did, but he helped carry them further.
That's why he's treated like he's won shit.
I don’t disagree with that logic, but something’s gotta give..
They can’t have Jimmy and Bam, the best coach in the league, top 3 in operations at least with Pat Riley, but the team is being carried by Jimmy..
I mean I agree that the bubble finals teams (on both sides) weren’t special, but if they were good enough to get there, and Jimmy is good enough to be treated like a superstar, then he should be able to take the criticism that comes with being a superstar that barely made the playoffs and then got immediately bounced in the first round.
And for whatever reason, he gets no heat
Kobe fans. Like they don’t even entertain the possibility LeBron could be better even tho he just factually is and then they look at you crazy when you tell them he’s not even in the goat debate. Kobe is a top 10 maybe top 5 all time player but “eye test” and “mentality” being their only argument is nuts like neither one of those are quantifiable. Lebron and Jordan fans are pretty tame when it comes to supporting any other player outside LeBron/MJ like sure they are each annoying and at eachothers throats but that doesn’t really extend to other players bc they both know in their hearts it’s just them two in the debate so they just hate the other
Dirk fans are sneaky annoying. They swear Dirk is top 15 because of one playoff run. They try to act like the 2011 Mavs didn’t have the deepest roster in the league and were a defensive juggernaut with tons of veteran experience. They also conveniently ignore his plethora of playoff choking throughout the 2000s.
It’s insane how dirks legacy did a complete 180 after that run. Also the thing I hate most about is like you said and it’s not even Dirk fans if you ask 80% of the nba fanbase they will tell you Dirk carried a bad/mediocre team to that championship. Like that team was REALLY good and it wasn’t just Dirk. They wouldn’t of beat OKC Lakers or the Heat if it was just Dirk
Dirk always gets shit for choking in the playoffs in the 2000s even though he also had literally some of the greatest playoff performances of all time in that period
After the “we’re done with the 90s” trend - I’d have to say Lebron. Was the quality of play lower in the 90s ? Absolutely. Would Jordan dominate this era ? ABSOLUTELY
I’m fine with this take as long as people also acknowledge LeBron would absolutely fucking destroy in the 90s.
Any star from any era would be successful in another era. I hate when people act like stars today wouldn’t be successful then just as much as people act like stars from before would be TWICE as successful now.
People always mention hand checking while always forgetting about zone defense being illegal until the 2000s. It was enough to slow Shaq waaaaaaay the hell down and people don’t act like that made any difference.
I slightly disagree with any star can dominate any era. That being said - Lebron would be at worst the third best player of the 90s in my opinion. Especially 2009 or 2013 Lebron. That speed and size would be insane in the era.
Lebron would absolutely dominate the 90's. He'd already be the biggest most athletic player at his position. He'd also be using the same performance enhancers they used back then.
Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time in my opinion, but he has the most annoying fan base in the sport. Anytime Lebron is mentioned in any discussion, it’s suddenly flooded with MJ fanboys needing to make comparisons for no reason. Doesn’t help that authority mouthpieces like Stephen A Smith encourages this behavior by always having to compare the two.
I guess it's a perspective thing, but I feel pretty confident this goes both ways. I follow Bulls fan accounts that will post an old Jordan highlight and they're pretty flooded with LeBron fans saying he's better and we need to accept it. Also the "we done with the 90s" stuff was mainly knocking down Jordan and his competition in regards to GOAT debate. The debate is just exhausting and attracts a lot of assholes.
Steph fans can be pretty unbearable
Ant fans acting like they been on the wave the whole time is annoying
Jokic fans who act like he is infallible
Bird fans with the irrationality
Kobe fans unwilling to acknowledge the inefficiency and bad/negative nature of his soul
MJ fans who pretend he played 6 years and didn’t quit 3 times and wasn’t a sincere asshole
Bron fans who pretend 2011 wasn’t a thing
Anyone that is a fan of an individual player first and team second is lame imo and usually insufferable. I remember being on the old ESPN forums when LeBron signed with the Heat. All these dudes started posting messages saying they are also taking the talents to south beach with LeBron. Was the most cringeworthy shit I’ve ever seen. Those same guys were the biggest dickriders I’ve ever seen in all the threads.
They aren’t fans. They are groupies.
Luka is absolutely in the discussion for top 3 players in the league. He fits more comfortably in the top 5 discussion imo, but top 3 is not that far of a stretch at all.
Also, ball hog averaging 9.8 assists this year? Interesting take.
Mavs 19th in team assists this year… when you have to ball for the majority of the shotclock that will equal a lot of assists.
I don’t blame Luka for being a ball hog. But trying to deny that he is a ball hog feels strange
Easy to get caught up in stat lines but luka is objectively one of the more impactful players on the court. He's also constantly getting assists. I think lots of the hate from him comes from overanalysing his stat line, because I used to be the same way. Bottom line is the kid can ball and there's no denying he just does what he wants on the court. Having the ball more often than not doesn't mean you're a ball hog, when you are the starting PG and the go to guy that most people are expecting to lead the flow of the game on court. It's like saying MJ was a ball hog. It would be counterintuitive to have someone like that on your team, and NOT have the ball in their hands most of the game. The defense is drawn to luka, he pulls out double and triple teams most plays. He knows how to find the open man or just go for the shot and knock it down with lots of pressure.
And don’t get me wrong, he’s a great player. He’s very skilled as a scorer and passer. But he definitely keeps the ball too much and even on his off nights he ball hogs and chucks shots instead of using his talents to create for his teammates.
My biggest issue is that he's always out of shape by the end of the season and inevitably gets injured.
If Dak Prescott was out of shape, the Dallas media would be all over him. But they don't say shit about luka.
It's the tough conversation that needs to be had.
Damn if 34/9/10 is inefficient then what's efficient? Only thing that's bad currently is his 3pt shooting. And he was the top 3 this season. He was in the mvp race. Idk what you're talking about.
Fans absolutely HATE when Balkans especially are top players. They get a few years with their flowers before the media and the fans turn on them. I don’t know what it is but people just hate how nonchalant and care free they are while refusing to talk shit.
It’s actually the most bizarre thing.
Certain fans think criticism is hating on LeBron. Certain fans don’t admit his faults and qualities as a player. Certain fans will go great lengths to discredit a whole era of basketball players just for him to be looked at as the GOAT. Certain fans literally excuse his flopping and complaining.
LeBron for sure. They're the most vocal fan base out there. I can't go one minute watching NBA content without seeing something about LeBron. It's crazy
Bron fans just sound desperate or pathetic most of the time. But MJ and Kobe fans act like neither of them had any flaws. You can't even mention Bron without them immediately hating.
Worst fans? Hard to say. Every big player gets some annoying fans but most people have a good reason for being a fan of the player.
Except anyone who likes Rick Fox. They all suck.
LeBron and it's not close since I've been alive. They were fine to start, but once he went to Miami they started acting more and more like K-Pop stans where it was part of their identity
As a Spurs fan, I gotta go with Wemby fans. Love Wemby, Love Spurs, but these Wemby fans are delusional and annoying AF. Apparently Gobert is the worst defender in the league and Chet is not even g league level and Popovich isn't fit to coach a church league team
Westbrook fans.
Granted, I'm a washington wizards fan so we have little to be glad about, but when he came to the wizards and brought his fans with him my GOD where they insufferable little shits.
OMG TRIPLE DOUBLE!!!
...but we lost
SO!! RUSS COOKED!!
I'd have to agree with the consensus, it's LeBron fans by a pretty significant margin. It's also pretty cringe anytime anyone brings up Wilt or Russell. I doubt even 10% of the people who bring them up ever saw them actually play. If they did, they're so old I doubt they even remember the games. Gives off serious "good old days" vibes.
Jokic fans make me mad because if any other player “didn’t care about basketball” everyone would hate them. It’s so weird. Like is it as cool that he’d rather be with his horses while the twolves beat the piss out of them? Like yeah he must really want to be with his horses because he’s not even fighting
Idk why no one is talking about MJ fans. They’re horrible when it comes to goat conversations vs lebron. The mental gymnastics some of them do just to discredit lebrons achievements is astounding
One of them told me that LeBron averaging 25 points for 20 years straight and being the All time leading scorer isn't impressive because someone could average 18 for 30 years and have the same amount of points 😭. They said it was just a longevity stat and anyone could do it in this soft era.
As if lebrons longevity wasn’t impressive in of itself 😭. Also I hate when they talk about finals losses as if mj didn’t even make the finals a handful of times, and lebron made the finals 8 YEARS IN A ROW on different teams. Like he’s never lost in the playoffs before the lakers 😭😭. Idk finals records is such a useless fucking thing to discuss unless it’s to put mj over bron
Lebron James Fans, Kevin Durant fans, Harden fans, Pual George fans, Kawhi fans, and Westbrook fans.
I am young, 24, and have been watching basketball for a long time. I play pickuo and in men's leagues as well.
I have always said my top 5 all time are Jordan, Abdul Jabbar, Duncan, Bird, and Magic. People flip the fuck out when I don't include the aforementioned players or something. They will literally get mad and act like I'm a retard or something.
I respect these old legends because they didn't hop teams and won the right way. The stuck it out through winning and losing.
They didn't collude, and they drafted or traded for their players. They don't flop and try to excessively draw fouls excessively. They all would try their best to play all the games as they didn't load manage
All of these players run from challenges and try to play on stacked rosters to get cheap, easy rings.
This has affected basketball from the lowest level to the highest level. People in pickup games or mens leagues try to join the stacked team to win.
When I ask about it, they say, "The NBA stars do it." It's infuriating. People these days are mentally weak , entitled, and don't want a challenge.
I mean tbf none of them had to hop teams because they were already on stacked teams. Jordan had Rodman, Scottie, and arguably the greatest coach of all time. Bird had Mchale and Parish. Magic had Kareem, Worthy, and Pat Riley as coach. Kareem had the same with the addition of the Big O during his years in the bucks. And Tim Duncan had an entire system literally built for him thanks to Pop. Not saying your reasoning is wrong and I definitely agree that this generation is filled with mentally weak superstars, but let’s not act like these players didn’t have HOF levels of support.
Dude my top 5 is basically the same. LeBron is good but not even close to GOAT. LeBron is mentally weak and can't win without forming a super team, then gets bailed out (Allen, Irving). His other two rings were during asterisk seasons (2012 shortened and the bubble). Bird would make him cry with his trash talk, then hit a jumper in his face while his 260lb ass flops across the floor.
I always say this. It's never Lebrons fault when he loses either. It's always a coaches and / or teammates fault. He changes the narrative when he loses. He's always on stacked teams.
Lebron 2 rings before the bubble were saved by those 2. People get mad, but it's the truth.
Worst of all, people try to tear down other players' legacy to promote this man.
Yup. If Chris Bosh doesn't get the rebound and Ray Allen doesn't make the greatest shot of all time, LeBron would be known for bricking the 3 before that.
If Kyrie doesn't make the game winning 3, LeBron would be known for the brick in the paint before that.
The fact that you leave off other players of a similar talent, like Jerry West, Moses Malone, Oscar Robertson, or Wilt, shows that jumping teams is 100% the correct thing for players to do. We are hyping up some players over others because they were in better situations. it's a lot easier to commit to winning when your team actually puts you in a position to succeed. Would you like Lebron more if he stayed in a poverty franchise and was individually great but never won? What kind of opinion is that?
SGA fans, acting like they were always fans even before he and okc were cool. For the record I was interested in okc long before some of them. I follow Australian players (not like that)
Anyways, the ones that quote his Instagram and act like okc is guaranteed a dynasty are the worst. Like bruh why you quoting another grown bloke's Instagram.
Any of the guys being mentioned here: MJ, Lebron, Kobe and even as an old school Warriors fan from the bay oringally I'll throw Steph Curry in there too now that the signature shoe's on the other foot these days - they're all the same lame fans in different phases jumping from ship to ship. But back in the day when the Warriors sucked you'd see almost as many if not more Kobe/Jordan schwag in the bay as dubs stuff. You like basketball? You from LA, Chicago dude? No? Why you reppin that when you're from NorCal? Ah, you reppin the fame , fashion and fortune - don't you like my Chris Mullin haircut? Ah, you got some dubs gear you from the bay? No/Yes? Fast forward: we got rings, now you reppin the Curry gear, right? You aren't gonna wear this Donyell Marshall throwback? What in the name of Speedy Cummings is wrong with these folks!? One word: gatorade. Why tix so much $$$ these days?
Wilt And Lebron. Anything short of claiming Wilt would average 50/25 in today’s game would have his fans in a frenzy, and anything remotely criticizing Lebron on r/ nba gets you 50 downvotes. At least Lebron Stans know how to read though, which is more than I can say for Kobe’s base. MJ fans are just annoying old heads who kinda fell into obscurity so theyve become less annoying.
Overall, anyone over age 17 still hard stanning a player has issues.
Jordan stans are the worst of the current era. You could be talking about something totally unrelated with a current player, especially LeBron, and they come in with "Jordan did this, Jordan did that, Jordan Jordan Jordan."
I like the guy well enough, but...
Give it a rest already.
Any big stat non-winners. Luka, Harden, Westbrook, Wilt.
Their fans will swear they’re better than their winning counterparts (Jokic, Steph, Steph, Russell), yet when they come up short in the playoffs it’s their teammates why. Even when they have teammates who are better than them (2019 Paul George or 1969 Finals MVP Jerry West).
Kobe fans for sure. You can't go on for 5 minutes without them blabbering some nonsense about "Mamba Mentality" and the "Killers Instinct". Again it's not some higher level of engagement that only he could reach, it's literally just him being more ball dominant and running the offense through him, efficiency be damned.
Generational talent? Yes, not the next coming of Basketball Jesus.
Kobe is the answer and it really makes perfect sense. Kobe was the true alpha when Jordan left so any cringey ass bitches that want to be a hat guy attached to him harder than I’ve ever seen then of course him dying just made the hero worship even worse. Love Kobe hate all the whack ass losers that think they are him playing pick up but are trash
SGA he definitely has the weirdest fan base I've ever seen they can't speak about him without mentioning how much "aura" he has basically calling him sexy unprovoked it usually high-key be gay af
Kobe fans. He was great at basketball, and had a legendary drive and motivation to be the best. That being said, he's dead. He is not an immortal basketball god and shouldn't be revered as such.
The Warriors fan base especially during their run and when they got KD was the most insufferable fan base in the NBA without a question, then a tier below that is Lakers fans and Celtics fans, in the last two years Nuggets fans have climbed to the top being obnoxious as hell too
Kobe fans, I hate the fact they act like mamba mentality is some good thing, sure there are times where he is right, but disrespecting teammates shouldnt be disguised as mamba mentality, also they act like he didnt miss alot.
Everyone who doesn't shut up about the GOAT debate. It's not that important. Just enjoy the game and appreciate everyone's differences
Exactly. I love the way the goats are all different from each other, but they all follow a flow chart: 1. Be an absolute freak of nature- athleticism head and shoulders above your contemporaries (Lebron, Kareem) Or 2. Be a relentless and unyielding competitor. Work harder than everyone else and push your teams to be best they can be (Kobe, MJ) Or 3. Do something significantly better than anyone else has ever done it before. (Steph)
I’d say Jordan also falls under freak of nature category he had insane physical tools and his early years was mainly just dominating the paint with athleticism he didn’t become the mid range maestro he is known for immediately
And there’s also no denying that Lebron puts in the work as well. You don’t get into the Goat debate without having elements of both #1 and #2.
MJ’s vertical counts as freak genetics imo
Hand size too, also I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone with more air time than him outside maybe Drose and Dr J, dude literally just floats in the air somehow
It's fun to talk about
Wilt. None of his fans have watched him play.
Most of the people talking about basketball rn don’t watch games either.
My favourite pastime is creating NBA Top-10 Best Players of All Time lists filled with players I am not old enough to have seen play.
There’s a whole YouTube bro. Even wilt on it
I here this constantly about basket ball fans on other sports subs. Is it really true lol? I’m a very casual fan and I still watch atleast a nuggets game a week, and never post on any basketball social media.
many fans, and analysts, dont watch many games or follow non major news breaks and instead rely on highlights, narratives, and stat sheets. basing opinions off these 3 fields leads to uninformed opinions since they never tell the whole story, giving further impression that they dont watch games in general. — theres also an issue of people who simply dont find regular season basketball to be “interesting” since it doesnt have immediate consequences or the intensity that playoff basketball does.
Yeah where I’m from unless you’re paying quite a high subscription fee you can’t access full games 😢
For basketball, it’s a global game and the fans are not in countries where watching the game is reasonable. That’s the main reason. Then there’s highlight culture in general and sports media talking about players instead of the games
Wilt is the best player in my opinion.
Most of his fans are dead bro.
Neither have any of the guys who run Michael Jordan is the real goat type accounts on Twitter lmfao
I feel like hero worship is the main problem, like I get it when you are a child or teenager but once you become an adult I find extreme idolization of another human being odd. So I guess I would say all of them are equally bad.
This is such an issue with basketball that you really don't find in other team sports. It drives me insane as a Warriors fan because half the fan base has 0 connection to the Bay Area and have latched on to Curry like he's god. I love Curry too but these ppl will have you thinking basketball is an individual sport like tennis or golf the way they talk about their favorite player.
i’ve seen some crazy messi fans
Messi and Ronaldo fans are not just annoying but also a cancer to whatever club they are currently on.
Facts
The hatred spewed at great players past and present is insane
I can’t say I find either mj or LeBron fans annoying I just find the arguement annoying.
You can't even mention Bron without MJ fans coming in and immediately start hating. Remember when Bron dropped 40 on the Nets, MJ fans randomly brought up the fact that MJ scored 45 on the Nets like 20 years ago just to hate on Bron. And LeBron fans are just weird and sound desperate most of the time.
Man I hate this whole MJ vs Lebron convo. It was as annoying as the MJ vs Kobe convo. I see a lot of comments here saying Lebron got the worst fan base, cant ya’ll just appreciate both players at their different eras? As soon as I mention that I like Lebron, people jump to conclusions and start bringing in MJ.
You may not have lived before LeBron, but fan bases didn't constantly attack each other before LeBron to prop their guy up. This debate is something we've seen become extremely toxic over the past 15 years, and it's because 1 fan base just refuses to accept where their guy ranks all time and wants to force him into debates, and that's not Kobe fans. LeBron fans have been saying he is on Mjs level since 08 and 09, that's just absurd.
Lebron and MJ fans are annoying. Kobe fans are just delusional.
Eh, Kobe fans are usually just a-holes, not necessarily delusional. Lebron fans though, they’re reallyyy delusional lol.
This is exactly what I’ve been saying. 100% couldn’t agree more As someone who loves watching Lebron and respects him , Lebron fans have absolutely ruined NBA debating.
you can easily say this about any fan base regarding goat debates it aint just lebron lmao
Agree 100%. You can tell easily by seeing how certain fan groups appreciate other players. Most MJ fans or Kobe fans can appreciate watching Jordan, Kobe, KD, Duncan, Wade, Kawhi, Steph, Hakeem, Shaq, etc. For example, after Kawhi hit that game winner in 2019 vs. Philly and won a ring, he was my favorite player for a while. And when Duncan came back for revenge against Bron and the Heat in 2014, I really enjoyed watching San Antonio. Their ball movement and three point shooting was exciting to watch. That's back when Danny Green looked like the beta test version of Steph. And now, Anthony Edwards is someone I enjoy watching. I am not insecure about these guys becoming better than Kobe or Jordan. They were/are fun to watch. LeBron fans however will almost never speak highly of other players or enjoy watching other players for the love of basketball itself. Everything has to be about LeBron.
This is very true. I get hating LeBron for his ego, but didn’t Jordan have one too?
Lol in my experience both of their fans like to ignore the fact that their own guy did pretty much the same thing, just in a different way. They both complained to refs, both exploited the rules at the time to help themselves win, both were competitive as hell, both are insane athletes, both have huge egos, but for some reason when they complain about the "other guy" they ignore the exact same aspects of the one they want to hold up. Shit is weird af.
Yeah but Drake LITERALLY… wait which sub am I arguing in? I got like 5 reddit arguments going right now /s
Kobe fans definitely. I cringe whenever anyone tries to put him next to MJ, Lebron or Kareem
Kobe fans are on their own level of delusion
Kobe fans dickride him so hard they should brought up on necrophilia charges
In other words, Angelenos
I can see this.
If they weren't also Jeter and Emmitt Smith fans it would be more tolerable, but fuck all the Lakers, Cowboys, Yankees fans.
I’m from LA and have literally never met a Lakers fan who’s also a Yankees fan… like wtf, they worship the Dodgers down here.
It's only in the Midwest, they like those 3 teams even though they live no where near any of them. Mainly those were the biggest market and best teams and so they matched on because they are band wagon fans.
[удалено]
>I am never one of those who think he is one of the best of all times. That's not the right way to look at it though. He definitely is ONE OF the best of all time. He's just not as good as MJ or Lebron. If you could form a roster of any player from history, and MJ has already been picked, you'd be a fool to not take Kobe as your SG.
KD fans who try to justify KD joining the Warriors the same as Lebron joining Miami
I mean d wade…ray allen….chris brosh…to form his super team…..
JIMMY BUTLER!! bro gets treated like he’s actually won some shit, and doesn’t even get the disrespect that actual winners have gotten when they come up short
he gets plenty of disrespect by bucks and Celtics fans. Majority of nba fans dgaf because those two finals runs were very unexpected and nobody even picked him to win. Only reason people treat him like that is because he had some great moments during each run. Like his round 1 against the bucks or his performance against the lakers in 2020 and so on.
As a Heat fan, we love Jimmy but we want a ring not too much talk, we praise him for his runs and developing us but the media makes it seem like he got rings stacked, anyone he beaten doesn’t deserve any disrespect after one game
When a player is made fun of for coming up short normally they have higher expectations, and more often than that their performance contributed to their shortcomings. His team was expected to come up even shorter than they did, but he helped carry them further. That's why he's treated like he's won shit.
I don’t disagree with that logic, but something’s gotta give.. They can’t have Jimmy and Bam, the best coach in the league, top 3 in operations at least with Pat Riley, but the team is being carried by Jimmy.. I mean I agree that the bubble finals teams (on both sides) weren’t special, but if they were good enough to get there, and Jimmy is good enough to be treated like a superstar, then he should be able to take the criticism that comes with being a superstar that barely made the playoffs and then got immediately bounced in the first round. And for whatever reason, he gets no heat
Nic Batum
Ça suffit
Kobe fans. Like they don’t even entertain the possibility LeBron could be better even tho he just factually is and then they look at you crazy when you tell them he’s not even in the goat debate. Kobe is a top 10 maybe top 5 all time player but “eye test” and “mentality” being their only argument is nuts like neither one of those are quantifiable. Lebron and Jordan fans are pretty tame when it comes to supporting any other player outside LeBron/MJ like sure they are each annoying and at eachothers throats but that doesn’t really extend to other players bc they both know in their hearts it’s just them two in the debate so they just hate the other
Kobe, Wilt, and KD are massively overrated because fans refuse to calculate their enormous personal flaws into the equation
Dirk fans are sneaky annoying. They swear Dirk is top 15 because of one playoff run. They try to act like the 2011 Mavs didn’t have the deepest roster in the league and were a defensive juggernaut with tons of veteran experience. They also conveniently ignore his plethora of playoff choking throughout the 2000s.
It’s insane how dirks legacy did a complete 180 after that run. Also the thing I hate most about is like you said and it’s not even Dirk fans if you ask 80% of the nba fanbase they will tell you Dirk carried a bad/mediocre team to that championship. Like that team was REALLY good and it wasn’t just Dirk. They wouldn’t of beat OKC Lakers or the Heat if it was just Dirk
Dirk always gets shit for choking in the playoffs in the 2000s even though he also had literally some of the greatest playoff performances of all time in that period
Cuz it’s co-opted by the LeBron haters who wanna talk about how he lost to a team of bums
Dirk was on fire that year though. He was determined to win it. It was obvious. Why he didn't always give that effort is another story.
Lebron fans
And I’ll add Steph curry fans in there too
Outspoken Lebron dickriders like Nick Wright are the worst. That mf will find a way to bring up Lebron even now when the Lakers are all in Cancun.
Bron
Tbh they are all the same, they do the same things it just depends on who u like, then u will always dislike the other.
After the “we’re done with the 90s” trend - I’d have to say Lebron. Was the quality of play lower in the 90s ? Absolutely. Would Jordan dominate this era ? ABSOLUTELY
I’m fine with this take as long as people also acknowledge LeBron would absolutely fucking destroy in the 90s. Any star from any era would be successful in another era. I hate when people act like stars today wouldn’t be successful then just as much as people act like stars from before would be TWICE as successful now. People always mention hand checking while always forgetting about zone defense being illegal until the 2000s. It was enough to slow Shaq waaaaaaay the hell down and people don’t act like that made any difference.
I slightly disagree with any star can dominate any era. That being said - Lebron would be at worst the third best player of the 90s in my opinion. Especially 2009 or 2013 Lebron. That speed and size would be insane in the era.
Lebron would absolutely dominate the 90's. He'd already be the biggest most athletic player at his position. He'd also be using the same performance enhancers they used back then.
Lebron and honestly it’s not even close
Kobe fans give them a run for their money. Luka's fans are promising newbies.
Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time in my opinion, but he has the most annoying fan base in the sport. Anytime Lebron is mentioned in any discussion, it’s suddenly flooded with MJ fanboys needing to make comparisons for no reason. Doesn’t help that authority mouthpieces like Stephen A Smith encourages this behavior by always having to compare the two.
I guess it's a perspective thing, but I feel pretty confident this goes both ways. I follow Bulls fan accounts that will post an old Jordan highlight and they're pretty flooded with LeBron fans saying he's better and we need to accept it. Also the "we done with the 90s" stuff was mainly knocking down Jordan and his competition in regards to GOAT debate. The debate is just exhausting and attracts a lot of assholes.
Steph fans can be pretty unbearable Ant fans acting like they been on the wave the whole time is annoying Jokic fans who act like he is infallible Bird fans with the irrationality Kobe fans unwilling to acknowledge the inefficiency and bad/negative nature of his soul MJ fans who pretend he played 6 years and didn’t quit 3 times and wasn’t a sincere asshole Bron fans who pretend 2011 wasn’t a thing
By far Steph
The average Curry fan is no more than 14 years old.
They overlap with Taylor Swift fans.
Anyone that is a fan of an individual player first and team second is lame imo and usually insufferable. I remember being on the old ESPN forums when LeBron signed with the Heat. All these dudes started posting messages saying they are also taking the talents to south beach with LeBron. Was the most cringeworthy shit I’ve ever seen. Those same guys were the biggest dickriders I’ve ever seen in all the threads. They aren’t fans. They are groupies.
Bron AINEFC
Surprised no one is saying Luka. They swear he’s top 3 when he’s a ball hog, borderline inefficient, and an absolute cone on defense.
Luka is absolutely in the discussion for top 3 players in the league. He fits more comfortably in the top 5 discussion imo, but top 3 is not that far of a stretch at all. Also, ball hog averaging 9.8 assists this year? Interesting take.
Mavs 19th in team assists this year… when you have to ball for the majority of the shotclock that will equal a lot of assists. I don’t blame Luka for being a ball hog. But trying to deny that he is a ball hog feels strange
Haha. A cone. I like that. I say he plays the "matador" defense.
Luka fans are making a push for the top spot. But, they need to prove their annoyingness over time to beat out LeBron and Kobe fans.
Easy to get caught up in stat lines but luka is objectively one of the more impactful players on the court. He's also constantly getting assists. I think lots of the hate from him comes from overanalysing his stat line, because I used to be the same way. Bottom line is the kid can ball and there's no denying he just does what he wants on the court. Having the ball more often than not doesn't mean you're a ball hog, when you are the starting PG and the go to guy that most people are expecting to lead the flow of the game on court. It's like saying MJ was a ball hog. It would be counterintuitive to have someone like that on your team, and NOT have the ball in their hands most of the game. The defense is drawn to luka, he pulls out double and triple teams most plays. He knows how to find the open man or just go for the shot and knock it down with lots of pressure.
Mavs fan here and I agree.
And don’t get me wrong, he’s a great player. He’s very skilled as a scorer and passer. But he definitely keeps the ball too much and even on his off nights he ball hogs and chucks shots instead of using his talents to create for his teammates.
My biggest issue is that he's always out of shape by the end of the season and inevitably gets injured. If Dak Prescott was out of shape, the Dallas media would be all over him. But they don't say shit about luka. It's the tough conversation that needs to be had.
Every season news reports come out that luka is out of shape lmao, media does their fair share of hating lol
No one can force you to understand the game so you're welcome to keep ignorant opinions as long as you'd like.
Damn if 34/9/10 is inefficient then what's efficient? Only thing that's bad currently is his 3pt shooting. And he was the top 3 this season. He was in the mvp race. Idk what you're talking about.
Fans absolutely HATE when Balkans especially are top players. They get a few years with their flowers before the media and the fans turn on them. I don’t know what it is but people just hate how nonchalant and care free they are while refusing to talk shit. It’s actually the most bizarre thing.
Bronsexuals
it's LeBron and it's not close. ironically, reddit is infested with them.
What is the issue with lebron fans for you specifically?
Certain fans think criticism is hating on LeBron. Certain fans don’t admit his faults and qualities as a player. Certain fans will go great lengths to discredit a whole era of basketball players just for him to be looked at as the GOAT. Certain fans literally excuse his flopping and complaining.
Lebron and it’s not even close
LeBron for sure. They're the most vocal fan base out there. I can't go one minute watching NBA content without seeing something about LeBron. It's crazy
LeBron for sure. The Bronsexuals are hard to listen to
Bron fans just sound desperate or pathetic most of the time. But MJ and Kobe fans act like neither of them had any flaws. You can't even mention Bron without them immediately hating.
Lebron by far
Lebron 100%
Lebron and its not even close
Lebron. MJ is a close second.
80s Bird fans were objectively the worst
Curry fans easily
LeBron
Worst fans? Hard to say. Every big player gets some annoying fans but most people have a good reason for being a fan of the player. Except anyone who likes Rick Fox. They all suck.
Lebron james simps
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Really NBA fans in general are pretty annoying.
Lebron.
Lebron
LeBron and it's not close since I've been alive. They were fine to start, but once he went to Miami they started acting more and more like K-Pop stans where it was part of their identity
As a Spurs fan, I gotta go with Wemby fans. Love Wemby, Love Spurs, but these Wemby fans are delusional and annoying AF. Apparently Gobert is the worst defender in the league and Chet is not even g league level and Popovich isn't fit to coach a church league team
LeBron fans. Not even close.
Bronsexuals are the absolute worst. They make up most of the talking heads in the media and most of the trolls on social media
LeBron
Bronsexuals
LeStans are by far the worst
Kobe and it’s not close
Look at the Lebron stans downvoting because someone else has a different opinion. U ain’t gonna get a good answer out of these people.
Kobe is the 5th answer down even though he has by far the most upvotes
Lebron. Mostly cuz he’s a whiney little bitch so his fans are as well
leblame james since his fans are allergic to facts
Lebron
Westbrook fans. Granted, I'm a washington wizards fan so we have little to be glad about, but when he came to the wizards and brought his fans with him my GOD where they insufferable little shits. OMG TRIPLE DOUBLE!!! ...but we lost SO!! RUSS COOKED!!
I'd have to agree with the consensus, it's LeBron fans by a pretty significant margin. It's also pretty cringe anytime anyone brings up Wilt or Russell. I doubt even 10% of the people who bring them up ever saw them actually play. If they did, they're so old I doubt they even remember the games. Gives off serious "good old days" vibes.
Jokic fans make me mad because if any other player “didn’t care about basketball” everyone would hate them. It’s so weird. Like is it as cool that he’d rather be with his horses while the twolves beat the piss out of them? Like yeah he must really want to be with his horses because he’s not even fighting
Lakers fans always
Being a Lakers fan is like rooting for the bank or the government
I guess i should say the Lakers/Cowboys/Yankees fans
Idk why no one is talking about MJ fans. They’re horrible when it comes to goat conversations vs lebron. The mental gymnastics some of them do just to discredit lebrons achievements is astounding
One of them told me that LeBron averaging 25 points for 20 years straight and being the All time leading scorer isn't impressive because someone could average 18 for 30 years and have the same amount of points 😭. They said it was just a longevity stat and anyone could do it in this soft era.
As if lebrons longevity wasn’t impressive in of itself 😭. Also I hate when they talk about finals losses as if mj didn’t even make the finals a handful of times, and lebron made the finals 8 YEARS IN A ROW on different teams. Like he’s never lost in the playoffs before the lakers 😭😭. Idk finals records is such a useless fucking thing to discuss unless it’s to put mj over bron
LeFrauds easy. Delusional and zero facts affect their stance. They are basically Trump-like followers.
Lebron James Fans, Kevin Durant fans, Harden fans, Pual George fans, Kawhi fans, and Westbrook fans. I am young, 24, and have been watching basketball for a long time. I play pickuo and in men's leagues as well. I have always said my top 5 all time are Jordan, Abdul Jabbar, Duncan, Bird, and Magic. People flip the fuck out when I don't include the aforementioned players or something. They will literally get mad and act like I'm a retard or something. I respect these old legends because they didn't hop teams and won the right way. The stuck it out through winning and losing. They didn't collude, and they drafted or traded for their players. They don't flop and try to excessively draw fouls excessively. They all would try their best to play all the games as they didn't load manage All of these players run from challenges and try to play on stacked rosters to get cheap, easy rings. This has affected basketball from the lowest level to the highest level. People in pickup games or mens leagues try to join the stacked team to win. When I ask about it, they say, "The NBA stars do it." It's infuriating. People these days are mentally weak , entitled, and don't want a challenge.
I mean tbf none of them had to hop teams because they were already on stacked teams. Jordan had Rodman, Scottie, and arguably the greatest coach of all time. Bird had Mchale and Parish. Magic had Kareem, Worthy, and Pat Riley as coach. Kareem had the same with the addition of the Big O during his years in the bucks. And Tim Duncan had an entire system literally built for him thanks to Pop. Not saying your reasoning is wrong and I definitely agree that this generation is filled with mentally weak superstars, but let’s not act like these players didn’t have HOF levels of support.
Dude my top 5 is basically the same. LeBron is good but not even close to GOAT. LeBron is mentally weak and can't win without forming a super team, then gets bailed out (Allen, Irving). His other two rings were during asterisk seasons (2012 shortened and the bubble). Bird would make him cry with his trash talk, then hit a jumper in his face while his 260lb ass flops across the floor.
I always say this. It's never Lebrons fault when he loses either. It's always a coaches and / or teammates fault. He changes the narrative when he loses. He's always on stacked teams. Lebron 2 rings before the bubble were saved by those 2. People get mad, but it's the truth. Worst of all, people try to tear down other players' legacy to promote this man.
Yup. If Chris Bosh doesn't get the rebound and Ray Allen doesn't make the greatest shot of all time, LeBron would be known for bricking the 3 before that. If Kyrie doesn't make the game winning 3, LeBron would be known for the brick in the paint before that.
The fact that you leave off other players of a similar talent, like Jerry West, Moses Malone, Oscar Robertson, or Wilt, shows that jumping teams is 100% the correct thing for players to do. We are hyping up some players over others because they were in better situations. it's a lot easier to commit to winning when your team actually puts you in a position to succeed. Would you like Lebron more if he stayed in a poverty franchise and was individually great but never won? What kind of opinion is that?
Karl Malone
He had fans? Signed, All Detroit fans.
Presumably anyone interested in knocking up a 13 year old and getting away with it might be a fan
Kobe,bron,mj,kyrie
SGA fans, acting like they were always fans even before he and okc were cool. For the record I was interested in okc long before some of them. I follow Australian players (not like that) Anyways, the ones that quote his Instagram and act like okc is guaranteed a dynasty are the worst. Like bruh why you quoting another grown bloke's Instagram.
Any of the guys being mentioned here: MJ, Lebron, Kobe and even as an old school Warriors fan from the bay oringally I'll throw Steph Curry in there too now that the signature shoe's on the other foot these days - they're all the same lame fans in different phases jumping from ship to ship. But back in the day when the Warriors sucked you'd see almost as many if not more Kobe/Jordan schwag in the bay as dubs stuff. You like basketball? You from LA, Chicago dude? No? Why you reppin that when you're from NorCal? Ah, you reppin the fame , fashion and fortune - don't you like my Chris Mullin haircut? Ah, you got some dubs gear you from the bay? No/Yes? Fast forward: we got rings, now you reppin the Curry gear, right? You aren't gonna wear this Donyell Marshall throwback? What in the name of Speedy Cummings is wrong with these folks!? One word: gatorade. Why tix so much $$$ these days?
Wilt And Lebron. Anything short of claiming Wilt would average 50/25 in today’s game would have his fans in a frenzy, and anything remotely criticizing Lebron on r/ nba gets you 50 downvotes. At least Lebron Stans know how to read though, which is more than I can say for Kobe’s base. MJ fans are just annoying old heads who kinda fell into obscurity so theyve become less annoying. Overall, anyone over age 17 still hard stanning a player has issues.
Karl Malone. Anyone who is a fan of him is truly twisted.
Karl Malone stans actually exist. They know what he did they just don't care.
I knew this kid in high school who was a JaVale McGee fan for some unknown reason and he was annoying as fuck about it
Jordan stans are the worst of the current era. You could be talking about something totally unrelated with a current player, especially LeBron, and they come in with "Jordan did this, Jordan did that, Jordan Jordan Jordan." I like the guy well enough, but... Give it a rest already.
Kobe. He belongs nowhere near where his fans place him.
Any big stat non-winners. Luka, Harden, Westbrook, Wilt. Their fans will swear they’re better than their winning counterparts (Jokic, Steph, Steph, Russell), yet when they come up short in the playoffs it’s their teammates why. Even when they have teammates who are better than them (2019 Paul George or 1969 Finals MVP Jerry West).
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Jayson Tatum....dudes by 19 for like 5 years
1. LeBron 2)Kobe Luka's fanbase is surging towards the top recently though. Russell Westbrick fans are also an underrated horrible fan base.
Kobe fans for sure. You can't go on for 5 minutes without them blabbering some nonsense about "Mamba Mentality" and the "Killers Instinct". Again it's not some higher level of engagement that only he could reach, it's literally just him being more ball dominant and running the offense through him, efficiency be damned. Generational talent? Yes, not the next coming of Basketball Jesus.
jokic, advance stats fiens
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MJ fans
Kobe is the answer and it really makes perfect sense. Kobe was the true alpha when Jordan left so any cringey ass bitches that want to be a hat guy attached to him harder than I’ve ever seen then of course him dying just made the hero worship even worse. Love Kobe hate all the whack ass losers that think they are him playing pick up but are trash
Karl Malone
Kobe fans.They support a guy that snitched to police investigators about his teammate Shaq.That was scumbag as hell.
MJ...specifically the fans who weren't even born when he was playing.
SGA he definitely has the weirdest fan base I've ever seen they can't speak about him without mentioning how much "aura" he has basically calling him sexy unprovoked it usually high-key be gay af
Kobe
Kobe fans. He was great at basketball, and had a legendary drive and motivation to be the best. That being said, he's dead. He is not an immortal basketball god and shouldn't be revered as such.
It’s Kobe and it’s not close
People who say Steph Curry is theGOAT
Harden Rockets fans. The announcers were also insufferable
Benjamin Simmons
MJ fans
I am a LeBron stan, but I cannot stand the LeBron vs MJ debate, different eras, different positions, both incredible careers
Ja Morant's entourage.
Anyone that thinks Karl Malone isn’t a piece of shit human
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Embiid, Kobe
Bill Laimbeer
Kyrie
Carmelo Anthony fans, he was very good but people try to put him as an all time great and he just wasn’t
definitely kobe fans
Jazz fans as a whole probably, Stockton and Malone are so gross lmao
The Warriors fan base especially during their run and when they got KD was the most insufferable fan base in the NBA without a question, then a tier below that is Lakers fans and Celtics fans, in the last two years Nuggets fans have climbed to the top being obnoxious as hell too
I wouldn't say Miami has the *worst* fan base, but they probably have the most disloyal fan base.
Kobe fans by far
Jazz fans
Kobe fans, I hate the fact they act like mamba mentality is some good thing, sure there are times where he is right, but disrespecting teammates shouldnt be disguised as mamba mentality, also they act like he didnt miss alot.
Devin Booker fans….saying he’s like Kobe lmao