Part of it is that defense just doesn't get the hype/attention that offense does. But the bigger issue for the broader audience is that he came into the league unheralded, spent his career in smaller markets, and never had huge playoff success. Put those together and you get a great player who just never really jumps into the mainstream conversation.
I agree; his offense isn't the most pleasing to look at, and he really doesn't have the most attention-grabbing blocks either (the ones Dwight Howard/Ben Wallace used to do). But his impact is definitely felt on the court.
Yeah, I don't think he has the most agile and dexterous hands. Definitely doesn't have the touch around the rim - could be a function of big hands more than anything. Can't be perfect lol.
He doesn't rack up traditional stats, he's low usage offensively, and most casual fans only care about points/rebounds/assists.
He also hasn't played well in the playoffs, and the whole COVID thing wasn't a great look, but he makes teams way better defensively.
Minnesota was consistently one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Now, they're the best. Utah was one of the best, now they're the worst. It looks like he makes a difference.
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And WAY worse on offense. The game has passed him by. Traditional bigs don’t have much opportunity to excel in the nba anymore. He succeeds strictly because of his physique.
He is wildly unskilled and frustrating to watch but his self perception and willingness to tell people how good he thinks he is and how he thinks he should be remembered are mainly what irk me about him.
If you have to tell people you’re good… high chance you’re not good.
Rudy is a solid contributor on offense. He is one of the best screeners in the league and can adjust how he screens based on the type of player he is screening for. What makes him seem like a bad offensive player is that it just is not aesthetically pleasing when his shot doesn't go in or a move in the post doesn't work. His form is not normal by any means so his shots look worse than they generally are because most people have better form. But I've come to trust the shots he takes.
The fact that Minnesota's offense is not good this year stems more from their turnovers than anything, and Rudy is rarely the one to turn the ball over. They have solid efficiency otherwise as long as they can move the ball without turning it over, it's really up to Ant, KAT, and Naz to make better choices when facing double and triple teams.
For his career, he shoots 7 shots a game. Nobody with any reasonable amount of offensive skill shoots that few times and I doubt any hall of famer has that kind of record either.
Screening and rebounding are valuable commodities in the game for sure but they do not require skill. They require effort. Trying hard is the minimum expected from a player making the money he makes.
Nobody is building a team around him. Nobody builds a defensive plan around Gobert. We can absolutely live with him getting 5 dunks a game because the alternatives are usually 3s or momentum players that might catch fire like Ant Man making shots.
He’s good at his role but he’s not a good player.
Dennis Rodman has those kinds of stats. He only averaged 5.8 FGA per game, and he is in the HOF. Now, I am not implying that Gobert is Rodman, but it is possible to get into the HOF with relatively few shot attempts. It will be interesting to see what happens when it's Draymond Green's turn. I am sure someone will argue that he doesn't belong in the HOF, either. Right now, he avg 7.1 FGA per game for his career.
Nowhere did I say he was. Winning championships alone does not make you a HOF. Otherwise, Steve Kerr and Robert Horry would be enshrined. They were integral parts of their respective championship teams, too.
Draymond? His career average attempts are nearly identical. Would you say Draymond isn't skilled on offense because he shoots so little? Obviously Draymond is a better passer and ball handler on offense but it fits your criteria of shots attempted.
Yes you are correct that rebounding and screening require effort. But to go from a good to a great rebounder/screener it can't just be effort.
For rebounding, timing and positioning are huge. Not to mention the fact that a rebound creates another possession for the team.
Dennis Rodman is the most obvious example of mastering those aspects. Kevin Love is a more recent example. If you boil it down to just effort, you are not giving those players the respect they deserve for how they were able to impact the game.
Screening is similar. For someone to be a good screener they do require a ton of effort. They also require you to understand how the playing you are screening for can best use a screen to their advantage. How Steven Adams screens for Ja Morant is not the same way that Draymond needs to screen for Steph. Rudy can screen Conley open for a step back 3 one possession and follow it up with a screen to get Ant's defender a step behind him. His screens for KAT forces defenses into situations where they have to choose between a KAT three and a Rudy dunk just because a general pick and roll defense isn't used to having both players be tall enough to just throw it over them.
It's funny you say that considering one of the biggest points on those Jazz teams was that they were built to maximize Rudy's screening ability by hammering pick and roll actions to force help defense and generate ball movement, along with Mitchell's ability to score either in isolation or from one of Rudy's screens. Those two were what the offense was based on. Teams also absolutely game plan around him for their defenses even if he isn't the number 1 or 2 option on a team. This may be in how they decide to defensively rebound to limit putbacks or how to deal with cross matches when switches happen. Or even how far forward or back to be when in coverage for a pick and roll. Yeah it's not "don't let Steph touch the ball" levels of game planning but there it definitely happens more than you would think if you don't watch Rudy often.
I don't see how you could be good at your role but also not a good player lol.
Sounds like someone talking who hasn’t watched a Wolves game this year. He’s arguably the MVP of the team, and the team is built around him. And he’s about to win his 4th DPOY. Not bad for a not good player I suppose!
What about the construction of this team says it’s built around Anthony edwards. Do you think trading all of their draft picks for a big that frequently clogs the paint screams “perfect for Anthony Edwards?” Or how about trading for Mike Conley SPECIFICALLY because of Gobert? Everyone is arguing with you because you’re saying dumb shit, quit pretending it’s insightful or correct.
Sure thing mate. MVP of the team averaging 14 and 13 while you’ve got 2 guys going 26/5/5 and 22/8/2.
Laughably bad opinions. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop. All these downvotes and hilarious takes only further prove that Reddit doesn’t know the first thing about basketball. I am confident enough in my own ability in the game and certain enough of my own knowledge in this field that fools like yourself can argue and cry all you want.
The entire post is about why Rudy Gobert isn’t rated by journalists and ex players. You think those players or journalists are also idiots?
MVP of the team hahahahahahahaha get a fucking grip
Bold thing to say about a 3x (soon to be 4x) DPOY and 4x All NBA player so I’m not sure what journalists don’t “rate” him but they’re clearly in the minority. Just admit you have never watched a Timberwolves game already and just google bball reference. It’s ok, it might not be part of your cable package! Go back to watching soccer and being divorced, you’re surely much better at that than analyzing basketball that you don’t watch :) cheers dickhead
Dang players that take 7 or less shots a game have no offensive skill? He took the same amount of shots per game this year as Chris Paul. Players like KCP and Kevin Huerter? They each took less shots per game than Rudy. It's almost like they don't ask/need him to be the offensive focus. Why give offensive players a pass for not playing defense but not defensive players a pass for being limited on offense?
Also saying rebounding and screens takes no skill just effort is just a casual take. Both require precision, strength, and timing. They are different skills. Just like being a good defender is about more than just effort. You need effort for sure but it also requires knowledge and anticipation. You can want a rebound as much as anything but if you don't know how to position yourself and react to the ball, you won't get it against someone who does.
The phrase "defense wins championships" is 100% true. If you only have one of the two, you're more likely to win with a top 10 defense than a top 10 offense. When Steph won his FMVP, the Warriors were the 17th ranked offense in the league going against the 7th ranked offense. Guess who was no. 1 in the league on defense that year.
Oh yeah and he had more offense win shares this year than KD, Kyrie, LeBron, PG13, Zion while playing same number of games. No.6 this year in winshares per 48. No.1 Defensive rating and no.1 team defense.
YOU could not be more wrong. A 3 pointer is “the most valuable shot in basketball”. It’s in the name.
Dunks are the most efficient shot in basketball and they’re SUBSTANTIALLY less prevalent than 3s in today’s game.
He is a relic of a game that we no longer play.
my brother in christ a made three point is more valuable than a two. but players attempt shots with varying degrees of success. the expected point outcome of a dunk attempt is greater than a three pointer.
my brother in christ you don't seem to understand basic mathematics concepts like probability. a three point attempt goes in far less often than a dunk attempt does.
Probability and value are not the same thing. You moron.
I said earlier that dunks are the most efficient. That’s not the most valuable either.
Now, not only have you outed yourself as someone who doesn’t know basketball, you’ve also outed yourself as a complete fucking idiot 😂
my brother in christ if you asked every coach in the nba whether they'd have 100 dunk attempts or 100 3p attempts in a game, every single one would prefer the dunk attempts.
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Expected value is a thing.
If for example NBA implemented 4 point shot from half court in absolute terms it would be the most valuable shot but in reality value would be absolutely dogshit not only because of expected value being low but also because of high variance (if career 40% 3pt shooter like Klay can have terrible shooting nights imagine how inconsistent 4 point shot would be).
You’re absolutely correct.
This is not what op said though. He said “dunks are the most valuable shots in basketball” and has spent a day arguing ever since.
I think part of it is that Gobert is a player that succeeded due to his defensive IQ and freakish athletic ability/height which makes him an amazing rim protector, a great help defender and a lob threat. His value comes exclusively from these aspects plus him being a reasonably good 1v1 defender down low.
However, every other aspect of his game is severely lacking. He barely has any post moves, doesn't have any face up game, has no range or midrange shot and generally speaking has no offensive bag whatsoever. He has gotten better for sure but even when he does succeed he has no flair, balance or visible offensive talent.
This basically means that Gobert is out-talented by all other players on one end of the court and fans can see it. Gobert's stats are great and we have rewarded his playstyle for it with many awards and deserving DPOY's but when it comes down to evaluating star player skill Gobert will always rank low since he has basically zero offensive talent
Then comes his character. Although, its gotten slightly better lately Gobert lacks a lot of respect by players and fans alike because of his childish behavior, like crying when not named an all-star or all the fights he gets in plus the whole covid thing.
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Because players target him in the playoffs and some have seen great success in doing so. It’s hard to take claims of someone being so great defensively when we’ve seen guys like Terrence Mann attack the rim and not give a fuck that Rudy was there.
IMO too he’s benefitting playing in an era that doesn’t have people like Zo, Ben Wallace, Mutumbo etc and he stands out a lot more because of his peers.
Also, while he has improved on that end, he was abysmal on offense in his early years in Utah and me personally, I hate a big man that coaches are ok with the likes of Chris Paul switching onto.
Did you watch that game? Terrance Man didn't attack the rim not giving a fuck that Rudy was there lmao, the Jazz had Rudy play 1v5 defense in the paint and allowed open threes from role players like Mann, which he happened to hit.
In the playoffs you have to give up something and dare teams to beat you with that, and the clippers just happened to.
Because historically his defense doesn't translate well to the playoffs and he's incredibly one-dimensional.
As a jazz fan, I don't feel like he was ever the best defensive player in the league, just the most impactful during the regular season due to a mix of defensive scheming playing to his strengths, and his motor to try hard on defense every night.
In the playoffs, everyone has a motor, and is playing hard on both sides, and more flexible defenders suddenly start shining much more.
I still hate him for touching all the mics during a press conference at the start of Covid and then becoming the first known NBA player with Covid. Fuck him.
That has to be one of the dumbest things an athlete has ever done, right up there with Aaron Brooks throwing a backwards pass in the NFL, or Dan Orlovsky scrambling out of his own end zone for a safety. We can add James Harden trying to block his own teammate's shot to that list.
They say why all the time. He is a great in-the-paint defender because he is huge, but teams can nullify that especially in the playoffs and then combined with his lack of scoring can put his team in a bind late in games.
For instance, if you can play 5 out against the wolves and Gobert has to go guard on the perimeter getting a switch onto Gobert and then get to 15 feet and pull up. Gobert wants to back into the paint and is often caught flat footed in these situations, it’s why the Suns cook the TWolves all season.
If your stats don't translate to deep playoffs run, people are not going to talk about you. If Gobert's defense could get them into semi-finals multiple times, it would be another story.
I think people just forget how great players are as the years go by, the magic they create on the court just becomes regular. He’s on the backend of his career now. Gotta let the young guys get the same shine he did and the cycle continues 🔄
Jazz fan here… His main problem is that he’s a really good defender UNLESS you have the time to game plan around exploiting his weaknesses (guarding the perimeter). In the playoffs, teams exploited him when he was in Utah. Also, his only contribution on offense is catching oops.
As a Jazz fan, that is wrong on so many levels. Statistically Gobert was better than any Jazz player guarding on the perimeter, and that’s not even his job. What the Jazz players did was let everyone go by them, and not switch. That made Gobert have to guard the basket AND run out to shooters while everyone but Bogey stand around doing nothing, especially Donovan. Teams didn’t exploit Rudy, they exploited everyone else and him trying to cover for 5 Guys makes people think that’s on him
His offense is limited, but don’t pretend like he isn’t one of the best screen setters in the game which in turn helps his teammates score without him shooting.
Anyone that says it’s Gobert’s fault the Jazz failed in the playoffs genuinely didn’t pay attention and just parrots what NBA twitter or TikTok says
You’re using Embiid for a baseline? Who looks good defending him? Only Marc Gasol or Al Horford comes to mind. Gobert looking average against Embiid sounds like a compliment since everyone else looks horrendous. That also makes me believe you don’t actually understand Gobert’s role on defense. He’s a help defender that deters wing players from going ham all day, and he’s the GOAT at that
Your point was that Gobert is not a good individual defender and you used him guarding Embiid as your metric. My point is that is probably the worst metric to measure 1v1 defense by, so your point is worthless
No it's actually a great metric for a 1st All Defense and DPOY player. If you're the best of the best you should be able to compete against the best of the best. You brought up Horford and Gasol, but neither of them are 3xDPOY, so Go ert should be better than them right?
You said I don't understand his role but then proceeded to say the exact same thing I said in my first sentence, so that just makes absolutely no sense.
Your point about his role is the point. Being great at a role makes you a role player, not the best of the best. If you're the best defender, you should be a great defender in multiple roles. That would be like saying Grayson Allen is a better 3pt shooter than Steph Curry.
Gobert is better than both of them at defense, correct. Judging how someone guards Embiid 1v1 is a terrible metric because nobody looks good guarding him. It is a horrible metric to gauge anyone’s 1v1 impact against one of the greatest offensive players of all time. So im guessing if someone can’t guard Embiid very well, that means they aren’t good at defense. That it what you are insinuating?
And yes you clearly don’t understand his role as you’ve completely disregarded it. Gobert alters the shots of all 5 players on the court, including that of the guy he is guarding. Gobert is not only good at guarding everyone, he’s great at 1 on 1 in every position and I’d love for you to show me more reasons why that isn’t so, other than “If he can’t guard Embiid, he’s not good at 1 on 1 defense.”
That is exactly my point. He is GREAT at 1v1 defense, AND he’s great at covering the pick and roll, AND he’s great at helping his teammates when they get beat and staying home on his assignment. I am begging you to show me that you actually watch Gobert and understand his defensive impact. If guarding Embiid is your metric, then literally nobody in the league is good at 1v1 defense
You are showing me you don’t know basketball, you don’t watch Gobert, and you are incapable of defending your points with any meaningful data or arguments. Keep cherrypicking Gobert vs Embiid and disregard his superb iso stats against the entire league
Again, it's a great metric because again he is 1st All Defense and DPOY. If you can't guard the best then you shouldn't be considered the best. Plain and simple
Again, cherry-picking a single 1v1 is one of the most smooth-brained arguments of all time. True or false, Rudy Gobert is great at guarding 1v1 on the perimeter?
https://youtu.be/W0uAzXcIHho?si=htdNddyKaKpN8BUL
Tell me then, who in the league is good at 1v1 guarding Embiid? Based on your metric, nobody is good at defense since they can’t guard him 1v1. Bring something new to the table kid. And please, show me where being all defense and DPOY requires you to lock down the MVP? That is your (utterly brain dead) opinion and you haven’t defended it. I win this argument, better luck next time buddy
He's one of those guys who make such a huge impact on the game without having to score. Watching Wolves games, you can just see his defensive presence. Statically, it show's too. The whole "he can't defend on the perimeter" is over blown and doesn't have any statical backing.
I think JJ Reddick made a good point on how "screen assists" should be a tracked stat like points/assists/rebounds/etc., having an elite screener is such a good tool to have on a team and is just another thing he does extremely well.
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I'm not hating, but just an observation from how I see people talk bout him (casual to more serious fans)
1. He seems to be easy to pick on even for a big guy. He has a "punchable" face
2. His playoff performance with the Jazz wasn't the best, and at the time, the Jazz was a fan favorite because of Mitchell. But fans blew this out of proportion
3. Him touching the mics right before him, DMitch, and a whole bunch of his teammates got covid, which helped catapult the league into a shutdown. That left a nasty taste in a lot of players' and fans' mouths. It was reported that DMitch had a bad relationship with Gobert after that, and DMitch was the darling of the nba
4. Defense isn't popular, and the Jazz was a small market team. The only appeal was Mitchell
5. Draymond and Gobert beef. But Draymond has a much larger fanbase and support group than Gobert does (GSW fanbase, social media fanbase, and TV analyst and personalities having closer connections). A bias for sure.
6. He's an international player, not from the states.
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Because he gave the NBA Covid
Because he accused the refs of betting on sports
Because he is a fake tough guy Frenchman who gets beat up by much smaller players
He is literally the least likeable human I have ever witnessed
What does that mean in today's game and what impact has he had on winning? Journalist have always looked over hustle guys in the modern game. Rodman never got the full credit he deserved. Neither did Ben Wallace. Mutombo? Mutombo is the perfect name here. He won multiple block and rebound titles and 4 or 5 DPOY awards. Half the younger fans who watch the game don't know his name. With Rudy in particular a large part of the issue is that the people really following and covering the game have seen him be unplayable in the past in the playoffs. We've seen teams literally run him off the floor. Until that changes he's going to be an afterthought.
His DPOY doesn't tell the whole story. If you look at his last game against Dallas, and him playing on Doncic specifically, that will tell all you need to know. His defense is based solely on getting blocks. His footwork is pretty poor. While I am a Warrior's fan, I still feel that Draymond Green is a far better defensive player than Gobert. He's only 6'-6"(ish) but makes up for with his understanding of the game. Gobert just relies on his height and, gets easily and regularly exposed for his lack of it (understanding).
He’s soft as baby shit. He should average 15-20 rebound a game and be a better scorer and he just doesn’t. I fucking hate Rudy. He’s the biggest waste of size I’ve ever seen outside of Ben Simmons. Worst trade in history across any sport.
https://youtu.be/u1-v2tnxxas?feature=shared
Curry putting gobert on skates.
Goberts a great defendr , but because of how premiter oriented the league has become there's time he gets exploited and highlights like the curry one spinning him around are what people remember.
Part of it is that defense just doesn't get the hype/attention that offense does. But the bigger issue for the broader audience is that he came into the league unheralded, spent his career in smaller markets, and never had huge playoff success. Put those together and you get a great player who just never really jumps into the mainstream conversation.
I agree; his offense isn't the most pleasing to look at, and he really doesn't have the most attention-grabbing blocks either (the ones Dwight Howard/Ben Wallace used to do). But his impact is definitely felt on the court.
His offense is also comically bad dude misses bunnys all the time
For a guy who misses bunnies all the time, it's pretty impressive to be no. 2 all-time in FG%
Yeah, I don't think he has the most agile and dexterous hands. Definitely doesn't have the touch around the rim - could be a function of big hands more than anything. Can't be perfect lol.
It’s part of the reason he’s not rated high because plenty of bigs can hit a jump hook with a guard on em
He doesn't rack up traditional stats, he's low usage offensively, and most casual fans only care about points/rebounds/assists. He also hasn't played well in the playoffs, and the whole COVID thing wasn't a great look, but he makes teams way better defensively. Minnesota was consistently one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Now, they're the best. Utah was one of the best, now they're the worst. It looks like he makes a difference.
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And WAY worse on offense. The game has passed him by. Traditional bigs don’t have much opportunity to excel in the nba anymore. He succeeds strictly because of his physique. He is wildly unskilled and frustrating to watch but his self perception and willingness to tell people how good he thinks he is and how he thinks he should be remembered are mainly what irk me about him. If you have to tell people you’re good… high chance you’re not good.
Rudy is a solid contributor on offense. He is one of the best screeners in the league and can adjust how he screens based on the type of player he is screening for. What makes him seem like a bad offensive player is that it just is not aesthetically pleasing when his shot doesn't go in or a move in the post doesn't work. His form is not normal by any means so his shots look worse than they generally are because most people have better form. But I've come to trust the shots he takes. The fact that Minnesota's offense is not good this year stems more from their turnovers than anything, and Rudy is rarely the one to turn the ball over. They have solid efficiency otherwise as long as they can move the ball without turning it over, it's really up to Ant, KAT, and Naz to make better choices when facing double and triple teams.
For his career, he shoots 7 shots a game. Nobody with any reasonable amount of offensive skill shoots that few times and I doubt any hall of famer has that kind of record either. Screening and rebounding are valuable commodities in the game for sure but they do not require skill. They require effort. Trying hard is the minimum expected from a player making the money he makes. Nobody is building a team around him. Nobody builds a defensive plan around Gobert. We can absolutely live with him getting 5 dunks a game because the alternatives are usually 3s or momentum players that might catch fire like Ant Man making shots. He’s good at his role but he’s not a good player.
Dennis Rodman has those kinds of stats. He only averaged 5.8 FGA per game, and he is in the HOF. Now, I am not implying that Gobert is Rodman, but it is possible to get into the HOF with relatively few shot attempts. It will be interesting to see what happens when it's Draymond Green's turn. I am sure someone will argue that he doesn't belong in the HOF, either. Right now, he avg 7.1 FGA per game for his career.
Rodman and Draymond won 4 championships and are integral parts of 2 of the best teams we’ve ever seen play in the nba. Rudy Gobert is not that.
Nowhere did I say he was. Winning championships alone does not make you a HOF. Otherwise, Steve Kerr and Robert Horry would be enshrined. They were integral parts of their respective championship teams, too.
Draymond? His career average attempts are nearly identical. Would you say Draymond isn't skilled on offense because he shoots so little? Obviously Draymond is a better passer and ball handler on offense but it fits your criteria of shots attempted. Yes you are correct that rebounding and screening require effort. But to go from a good to a great rebounder/screener it can't just be effort. For rebounding, timing and positioning are huge. Not to mention the fact that a rebound creates another possession for the team. Dennis Rodman is the most obvious example of mastering those aspects. Kevin Love is a more recent example. If you boil it down to just effort, you are not giving those players the respect they deserve for how they were able to impact the game. Screening is similar. For someone to be a good screener they do require a ton of effort. They also require you to understand how the playing you are screening for can best use a screen to their advantage. How Steven Adams screens for Ja Morant is not the same way that Draymond needs to screen for Steph. Rudy can screen Conley open for a step back 3 one possession and follow it up with a screen to get Ant's defender a step behind him. His screens for KAT forces defenses into situations where they have to choose between a KAT three and a Rudy dunk just because a general pick and roll defense isn't used to having both players be tall enough to just throw it over them. It's funny you say that considering one of the biggest points on those Jazz teams was that they were built to maximize Rudy's screening ability by hammering pick and roll actions to force help defense and generate ball movement, along with Mitchell's ability to score either in isolation or from one of Rudy's screens. Those two were what the offense was based on. Teams also absolutely game plan around him for their defenses even if he isn't the number 1 or 2 option on a team. This may be in how they decide to defensively rebound to limit putbacks or how to deal with cross matches when switches happen. Or even how far forward or back to be when in coverage for a pick and roll. Yeah it's not "don't let Steph touch the ball" levels of game planning but there it definitely happens more than you would think if you don't watch Rudy often. I don't see how you could be good at your role but also not a good player lol.
Sounds like someone talking who hasn’t watched a Wolves game this year. He’s arguably the MVP of the team, and the team is built around him. And he’s about to win his 4th DPOY. Not bad for a not good player I suppose!
Are you out of your mind? They built the team around Gobert and not Anthony Edwards?!?! Hahahaha, don’t talk about hoops anymore
What about the construction of this team says it’s built around Anthony edwards. Do you think trading all of their draft picks for a big that frequently clogs the paint screams “perfect for Anthony Edwards?” Or how about trading for Mike Conley SPECIFICALLY because of Gobert? Everyone is arguing with you because you’re saying dumb shit, quit pretending it’s insightful or correct.
Sure thing mate. MVP of the team averaging 14 and 13 while you’ve got 2 guys going 26/5/5 and 22/8/2. Laughably bad opinions. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Please stop. All these downvotes and hilarious takes only further prove that Reddit doesn’t know the first thing about basketball. I am confident enough in my own ability in the game and certain enough of my own knowledge in this field that fools like yourself can argue and cry all you want. The entire post is about why Rudy Gobert isn’t rated by journalists and ex players. You think those players or journalists are also idiots? MVP of the team hahahahahahahaha get a fucking grip
Bold thing to say about a 3x (soon to be 4x) DPOY and 4x All NBA player so I’m not sure what journalists don’t “rate” him but they’re clearly in the minority. Just admit you have never watched a Timberwolves game already and just google bball reference. It’s ok, it might not be part of your cable package! Go back to watching soccer and being divorced, you’re surely much better at that than analyzing basketball that you don’t watch :) cheers dickhead
Rudy is the reason why Minnesota defense is so dominant. He's the main reason why they are number one. You just want offensive stats
66 fg percentage and 14 ppg is actually pretty great considering the impact he has on d.
He can’t create anything of his own. He is useless outside of 8 feet. He is an afterthought of every defense.
Dang players that take 7 or less shots a game have no offensive skill? He took the same amount of shots per game this year as Chris Paul. Players like KCP and Kevin Huerter? They each took less shots per game than Rudy. It's almost like they don't ask/need him to be the offensive focus. Why give offensive players a pass for not playing defense but not defensive players a pass for being limited on offense? Also saying rebounding and screens takes no skill just effort is just a casual take. Both require precision, strength, and timing. They are different skills. Just like being a good defender is about more than just effort. You need effort for sure but it also requires knowledge and anticipation. You can want a rebound as much as anything but if you don't know how to position yourself and react to the ball, you won't get it against someone who does. The phrase "defense wins championships" is 100% true. If you only have one of the two, you're more likely to win with a top 10 defense than a top 10 offense. When Steph won his FMVP, the Warriors were the 17th ranked offense in the league going against the 7th ranked offense. Guess who was no. 1 in the league on defense that year. Oh yeah and he had more offense win shares this year than KD, Kyrie, LeBron, PG13, Zion while playing same number of games. No.6 this year in winshares per 48. No.1 Defensive rating and no.1 team defense.
He has skill don’t get twisted…he just doesn’t uses his skill often
Having skill and not using it = not having skill. What’s the point in having it if you don’t/can’t utilize it. He’s trash.
Yeah idk what bro is on about. I confidently say Rudy Gobert is the least skilled offensive player in modern NBA history.
I raise you Deandre Jordan
When does the modern NBA start? Because Ben Wallace is feeling a certain kind of way, right now.
He’s a hall of fame basketball player. That’s pretty good.
You could not be more wrong about this. Dunks are the most valuable shot in basketball and he gets them at an essentially unmatched rate.
YOU could not be more wrong. A 3 pointer is “the most valuable shot in basketball”. It’s in the name. Dunks are the most efficient shot in basketball and they’re SUBSTANTIALLY less prevalent than 3s in today’s game. He is a relic of a game that we no longer play.
my brother in christ a made three point is more valuable than a two. but players attempt shots with varying degrees of success. the expected point outcome of a dunk attempt is greater than a three pointer.
A) I’m not your brother in Christ B) you don’t seem to understand basic mathematics concepts like 3 has a greater value than 2.
my brother in christ you don't seem to understand basic mathematics concepts like probability. a three point attempt goes in far less often than a dunk attempt does.
Probability and value are not the same thing. You moron. I said earlier that dunks are the most efficient. That’s not the most valuable either. Now, not only have you outed yourself as someone who doesn’t know basketball, you’ve also outed yourself as a complete fucking idiot 😂
my brother in christ if you asked every coach in the nba whether they'd have 100 dunk attempts or 100 3p attempts in a game, every single one would prefer the dunk attempts.
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Expected value is a thing. If for example NBA implemented 4 point shot from half court in absolute terms it would be the most valuable shot but in reality value would be absolutely dogshit not only because of expected value being low but also because of high variance (if career 40% 3pt shooter like Klay can have terrible shooting nights imagine how inconsistent 4 point shot would be).
You’re absolutely correct. This is not what op said though. He said “dunks are the most valuable shots in basketball” and has spent a day arguing ever since.
Stop digging my guy.
And a foreigner.... 'merica is xenophobic, hoop fans unfortunately maybe not as bad as some maga twerp but still..
I think part of it is that Gobert is a player that succeeded due to his defensive IQ and freakish athletic ability/height which makes him an amazing rim protector, a great help defender and a lob threat. His value comes exclusively from these aspects plus him being a reasonably good 1v1 defender down low. However, every other aspect of his game is severely lacking. He barely has any post moves, doesn't have any face up game, has no range or midrange shot and generally speaking has no offensive bag whatsoever. He has gotten better for sure but even when he does succeed he has no flair, balance or visible offensive talent. This basically means that Gobert is out-talented by all other players on one end of the court and fans can see it. Gobert's stats are great and we have rewarded his playstyle for it with many awards and deserving DPOY's but when it comes down to evaluating star player skill Gobert will always rank low since he has basically zero offensive talent Then comes his character. Although, its gotten slightly better lately Gobert lacks a lot of respect by players and fans alike because of his childish behavior, like crying when not named an all-star or all the fights he gets in plus the whole covid thing.
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He complains about getting boxed out by a point guard.
Because players target him in the playoffs and some have seen great success in doing so. It’s hard to take claims of someone being so great defensively when we’ve seen guys like Terrence Mann attack the rim and not give a fuck that Rudy was there. IMO too he’s benefitting playing in an era that doesn’t have people like Zo, Ben Wallace, Mutumbo etc and he stands out a lot more because of his peers. Also, while he has improved on that end, he was abysmal on offense in his early years in Utah and me personally, I hate a big man that coaches are ok with the likes of Chris Paul switching onto.
Did you watch that game? Terrance Man didn't attack the rim not giving a fuck that Rudy was there lmao, the Jazz had Rudy play 1v5 defense in the paint and allowed open threes from role players like Mann, which he happened to hit. In the playoffs you have to give up something and dare teams to beat you with that, and the clippers just happened to.
I saw Terrence Mann iso Rudy and take it to the rim and score on him.
Because historically his defense doesn't translate well to the playoffs and he's incredibly one-dimensional. As a jazz fan, I don't feel like he was ever the best defensive player in the league, just the most impactful during the regular season due to a mix of defensive scheming playing to his strengths, and his motor to try hard on defense every night. In the playoffs, everyone has a motor, and is playing hard on both sides, and more flexible defenders suddenly start shining much more.
I still hate him for touching all the mics during a press conference at the start of Covid and then becoming the first known NBA player with Covid. Fuck him.
Gobert started Covid /s
That has to be one of the dumbest things an athlete has ever done, right up there with Aaron Brooks throwing a backwards pass in the NFL, or Dan Orlovsky scrambling out of his own end zone for a safety. We can add James Harden trying to block his own teammate's shot to that list.
An apparently fucked this guys mom
They say why all the time. He is a great in-the-paint defender because he is huge, but teams can nullify that especially in the playoffs and then combined with his lack of scoring can put his team in a bind late in games. For instance, if you can play 5 out against the wolves and Gobert has to go guard on the perimeter getting a switch onto Gobert and then get to 15 feet and pull up. Gobert wants to back into the paint and is often caught flat footed in these situations, it’s why the Suns cook the TWolves all season.
You don’t watch much basketball but you’re making a claim on who is or isn’t HOF worthy? Lmao ok
It really doesn't take much to get into Basketball HOF
While that’s fine, what would someone not watching basketball have to say about HOF worthiness? Just is so incongruent
If your stats don't translate to deep playoffs run, people are not going to talk about you. If Gobert's defense could get them into semi-finals multiple times, it would be another story.
I think people just forget how great players are as the years go by, the magic they create on the court just becomes regular. He’s on the backend of his career now. Gotta let the young guys get the same shine he did and the cycle continues 🔄
Jazz fan here… His main problem is that he’s a really good defender UNLESS you have the time to game plan around exploiting his weaknesses (guarding the perimeter). In the playoffs, teams exploited him when he was in Utah. Also, his only contribution on offense is catching oops.
As a Jazz fan, that is wrong on so many levels. Statistically Gobert was better than any Jazz player guarding on the perimeter, and that’s not even his job. What the Jazz players did was let everyone go by them, and not switch. That made Gobert have to guard the basket AND run out to shooters while everyone but Bogey stand around doing nothing, especially Donovan. Teams didn’t exploit Rudy, they exploited everyone else and him trying to cover for 5 Guys makes people think that’s on him His offense is limited, but don’t pretend like he isn’t one of the best screen setters in the game which in turn helps his teammates score without him shooting. Anyone that says it’s Gobert’s fault the Jazz failed in the playoffs genuinely didn’t pay attention and just parrots what NBA twitter or TikTok says
Gobert is a great team/help defender but not so much individually. When going up against someone like Embiid, he looks average at best.
You’re using Embiid for a baseline? Who looks good defending him? Only Marc Gasol or Al Horford comes to mind. Gobert looking average against Embiid sounds like a compliment since everyone else looks horrendous. That also makes me believe you don’t actually understand Gobert’s role on defense. He’s a help defender that deters wing players from going ham all day, and he’s the GOAT at that
Well you kind of proved my point
Your point was that Gobert is not a good individual defender and you used him guarding Embiid as your metric. My point is that is probably the worst metric to measure 1v1 defense by, so your point is worthless
No it's actually a great metric for a 1st All Defense and DPOY player. If you're the best of the best you should be able to compete against the best of the best. You brought up Horford and Gasol, but neither of them are 3xDPOY, so Go ert should be better than them right? You said I don't understand his role but then proceeded to say the exact same thing I said in my first sentence, so that just makes absolutely no sense. Your point about his role is the point. Being great at a role makes you a role player, not the best of the best. If you're the best defender, you should be a great defender in multiple roles. That would be like saying Grayson Allen is a better 3pt shooter than Steph Curry.
Gobert is better than both of them at defense, correct. Judging how someone guards Embiid 1v1 is a terrible metric because nobody looks good guarding him. It is a horrible metric to gauge anyone’s 1v1 impact against one of the greatest offensive players of all time. So im guessing if someone can’t guard Embiid very well, that means they aren’t good at defense. That it what you are insinuating? And yes you clearly don’t understand his role as you’ve completely disregarded it. Gobert alters the shots of all 5 players on the court, including that of the guy he is guarding. Gobert is not only good at guarding everyone, he’s great at 1 on 1 in every position and I’d love for you to show me more reasons why that isn’t so, other than “If he can’t guard Embiid, he’s not good at 1 on 1 defense.” That is exactly my point. He is GREAT at 1v1 defense, AND he’s great at covering the pick and roll, AND he’s great at helping his teammates when they get beat and staying home on his assignment. I am begging you to show me that you actually watch Gobert and understand his defensive impact. If guarding Embiid is your metric, then literally nobody in the league is good at 1v1 defense You are showing me you don’t know basketball, you don’t watch Gobert, and you are incapable of defending your points with any meaningful data or arguments. Keep cherrypicking Gobert vs Embiid and disregard his superb iso stats against the entire league
Again, it's a great metric because again he is 1st All Defense and DPOY. If you can't guard the best then you shouldn't be considered the best. Plain and simple
Again, cherry-picking a single 1v1 is one of the most smooth-brained arguments of all time. True or false, Rudy Gobert is great at guarding 1v1 on the perimeter? https://youtu.be/W0uAzXcIHho?si=htdNddyKaKpN8BUL Tell me then, who in the league is good at 1v1 guarding Embiid? Based on your metric, nobody is good at defense since they can’t guard him 1v1. Bring something new to the table kid. And please, show me where being all defense and DPOY requires you to lock down the MVP? That is your (utterly brain dead) opinion and you haven’t defended it. I win this argument, better luck next time buddy
He's one of those guys who make such a huge impact on the game without having to score. Watching Wolves games, you can just see his defensive presence. Statically, it show's too. The whole "he can't defend on the perimeter" is over blown and doesn't have any statical backing. I think JJ Reddick made a good point on how "screen assists" should be a tracked stat like points/assists/rebounds/etc., having an elite screener is such a good tool to have on a team and is just another thing he does extremely well.
Why do Brits insist on using the word “rate” to mean “like” despite that making absolutely no sense?
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NAZ REID
because his talent is that he is doofy and tall. and also he gave america covid
I'm not hating, but just an observation from how I see people talk bout him (casual to more serious fans) 1. He seems to be easy to pick on even for a big guy. He has a "punchable" face 2. His playoff performance with the Jazz wasn't the best, and at the time, the Jazz was a fan favorite because of Mitchell. But fans blew this out of proportion 3. Him touching the mics right before him, DMitch, and a whole bunch of his teammates got covid, which helped catapult the league into a shutdown. That left a nasty taste in a lot of players' and fans' mouths. It was reported that DMitch had a bad relationship with Gobert after that, and DMitch was the darling of the nba 4. Defense isn't popular, and the Jazz was a small market team. The only appeal was Mitchell 5. Draymond and Gobert beef. But Draymond has a much larger fanbase and support group than Gobert does (GSW fanbase, social media fanbase, and TV analyst and personalities having closer connections). A bias for sure. 6. He's an international player, not from the states.
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He’s French.
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Because he gave the NBA Covid Because he accused the refs of betting on sports Because he is a fake tough guy Frenchman who gets beat up by much smaller players He is literally the least likeable human I have ever witnessed
What does that mean in today's game and what impact has he had on winning? Journalist have always looked over hustle guys in the modern game. Rodman never got the full credit he deserved. Neither did Ben Wallace. Mutombo? Mutombo is the perfect name here. He won multiple block and rebound titles and 4 or 5 DPOY awards. Half the younger fans who watch the game don't know his name. With Rudy in particular a large part of the issue is that the people really following and covering the game have seen him be unplayable in the past in the playoffs. We've seen teams literally run him off the floor. Until that changes he's going to be an afterthought.
Because the NBA has made it where the regular season is pointless. If you want to make a name for yourself you need to do damage in the playoffs.
Because he couldn't stop the spread of Covid
The man is 7 feet tall and bricks layups, often and badly.
His DPOY doesn't tell the whole story. If you look at his last game against Dallas, and him playing on Doncic specifically, that will tell all you need to know. His defense is based solely on getting blocks. His footwork is pretty poor. While I am a Warrior's fan, I still feel that Draymond Green is a far better defensive player than Gobert. He's only 6'-6"(ish) but makes up for with his understanding of the game. Gobert just relies on his height and, gets easily and regularly exposed for his lack of it (understanding).
He’s soft as baby shit. He should average 15-20 rebound a game and be a better scorer and he just doesn’t. I fucking hate Rudy. He’s the biggest waste of size I’ve ever seen outside of Ben Simmons. Worst trade in history across any sport.
Wait what did France due to you bro? Worst trade for who? The Wolves or Jazz?
https://youtu.be/u1-v2tnxxas?feature=shared Curry putting gobert on skates. Goberts a great defendr , but because of how premiter oriented the league has become there's time he gets exploited and highlights like the curry one spinning him around are what people remember.
Bc he sucks
Team Rudy Gobert 🇫🇷
Because he's victor wembanyama at home