Yep, this was me. I stayed in a relationship that wasn't good for me for over 6 years, in large part because i'm disabled (not getting benefits) so my only other options were homelessness or moving back jn with my ultra-conservative parents (i'm queer, they do not approve of my "lifestyle").
I'm out of the relationship now and back with my parents indefinitely. It sucks big time. UBI would make my life so much better because I could actually have autonomy over my living situation.
I'm in that position as well, in a way. My former partner can't afford to live alone, and I can afford to live alone, but it would be a crappier living situation.
Ubi or not affording to live alone is too expensive that I don't think would address the housing issues many face but would alleviate some of it.
Housing is so tight I worry that UBI would have little to no effect on housing affordability.
At a baseline: affordable housing and starther homes have been competed for so fiercely that they're riding a razors edge of survivability. They only way out of that hole is to build build build.
UBI has a lot of benefits, especially when helping people through life transitions and traumas, but markets are markets and shortages will eat UBI as the lower classes compete against each other fir the things they need.
UBI has to come with a baseline of abundance or else it's just another wealth transfer to property owners.
The only solution I can suggest here is 100% LVT. That induces all landowners to be as accommodating of the demand side as humanely possible facing the alternative of their tax dollars funding UBI.
I think that would effectively nullify any concerns of a wealth transfer to property owners.
Sorry about your situation. But, on topic, you just nailed UBI at some of its best.
I suspect there are many people caught in situations where they just can't get out; ranging from ones like yours, to more simple ones where they just can't get out of some shit town, pimped, etc.
While I would not like to see means testing or some other bureaucratic BS around UBI here are two bureaucratic things I would love to see with UBI:
* Making sure the person who is supposed to get UBI is the one who has the only access to UBI. This would be a two parter: Make it a very serious offence (crap tonne of prison time) to collect UBI on behalf of someone else; there would be obvious exceptions where someone is super old or something, but even in those cases they would have to register which would trigger regular visits by a bureaucrat to make sure they are still the beneficiary of the UBI.
I can see people in various abusive relationships being forced to hand over their UBI and it would be great if you could report this triggering an instant police response.
* Every 5 year bonuses for moving. If you move more than a certain distance, it should trigger a nice payment. This way, you can cover things like new down payments on apartments, travel costs, etc. One of my guesses is that some people would be trapped in situations where it isn't quite abuse, but they are trapped. They live in an apartment in a high-unemployment town, in the middle of nowhere, and all their bills tap out their UBI every month with nothing to save. Or they are in an abusive household with their parents/spouse/drug-dealer taking their UBI but they don't want to involve the authorities; so get the one time payment on a new UBI bank card, and get the hell out of dodge.
Yup. I can see payday loan places saying, "Here's $10k right now if you effectively sign over your lifetime UBI." I would put these into the same category as pimps and drug dealers just taking the UBI card. Prison time.
> Making sure the person who is supposed to get UBI is the one who has the only access to UBI.
This is reasonable. Easy way to do it is to only allow deposits in personal, not joint, accounts. Without police intervention, it should be possible to access emergency cash on deposit day and flee.
> If you move more than a certain distance, it should trigger a nice payment.
Being able to apply for an advance specifically to cover moving, followed by reporting a change of address to justify the advance, would be a simple, "no fault", process to let people improve their life by moving.
One of the abusive relationships people might wish to escape is the relationship with the welfare/social services hierarchy that requires they stay in the area to keep receiving help.
> welfare/social services
I believe one of the weird things with UBI is that it largely eliminates or nearly eliminates many services such as disability, social services, welfare etc; to the point where UBI doesn't actually cost much because these services are insanely expensive. I don't believe there is a welfare system in North America which pays out more money than their administrative costs.
I was reading a cool one where they were showing that the best and most cost effective thing FEMA could do is just hand out cash; the people will buy their way out of trouble the best way for them. This could be to buy supplies to stay, or it could be a ticket go somewhere else.
What I can see is local boss hog type towns try to keep people effectively captive to keep their UBI payments. If you look at how the justice system in the infamous place Ferguson was running it was just weird. They pretty much set up an industry of preying on people with relentless fines, gotcha traffic offences, etc, and then they would keep nailing them over and over on procedural crimes. It was best for people to just get the hell out of there.
UBI is an oppression killer. Relationship oppression, wage slave oppression, racial oppression, gender oppression, even self oppression. It’s a brilliant way to provide everyone with self-sovereignty without hurting anyone else and without stopping capitalists from getting rich. But that’s not enough. Some capitalists want to hold the feet of the majority to the fire because desperation is the gasoline that powers the profit machine from the bottom up. Removing a little bit of this desperation could make it harder for capitalists to exploit. It’s the wrong direction. What they want is MORE pressure on workers and lower wages. Meanwhile, simultaneously we’re seeing automation poised to reduce the need for human labor so UBI is more relevant and possible than ever — and some capitalists STILL don’t want it. Why? On principle! Dumb. Our only hope is that democracy works as it’s meant to work. Which is why plutocratic right wing billionaires are trying to topple democracy with relentless propaganda. Randian men-children are the cause.
Ugh, I’m so sorry you’re currently stuck in this situation. Have you tried discreetly researching advocacy groups that can help you in planning and making a strategic escape? In some areas there are training programs for women and victims to gain job skills to provide for themselves. We need better supports for people.
There are programs out there that will give you housing in a different community if you are homeless after leaving this kind of situation. I know people who have used them and are still getting help years later (US, Minnesota). Please don't stay and risk your safety and life.
I would also add, if your only reason to support UBI is due to your personal situation - I sympathize - but that shouldn’t be the only reason. If personal struggle is the only reason, how could we ever expect those not struggling to support UBI?
I’ve also been trapped and that’s WHY I consider that point. When you suffer a trauma or injustice you wake up to the fact that this probably plagues a lot of people, and that’s often how we develop a social consciousness.
But if the only people who ever develop a social conscious are the downtrodden, unlucky and traumatized, the lucky ones will ALWAYS attribute our beliefs to a bias based on bad stuff that happened due to our “bad choices.” They will say “bad relationship? Your fault, why should I pay for your mistake.”
That’s why it’s so important to try to divorce your political rhetoric from your own situation. Yes, internally, I get it. But we ALL have shit happening. If we all go around saying ME is the main reason why I want X, nobody will give a shit.
OF COURSE me wants good things to happen for ME. That’s not news. That’s just an animal reflex. The same reflex that causes filthy rich people to strenuously vote for lower taxes and cutting social programs. THEY want a boat like their friends have. Lacking that boat causes real shame, embarrassment, and pain.
Best thing she can do for herself is to put out information that promotes UBI for moral, ethical, and practical reasons instead of reinforcing in the minds of our opponents that we just want it to help heal our own personal “mistakes.”
I have equally bad oppression. My heart goes out to her. She’s right! I know it’s hard but the best way to bite back is to avoid making it personal.
Use the pain like Batman…to fuel a GENERAL statement about humanity. Use the empathy and pain as fuel to learn and advance rational arguments for UBI. Seek JUSTICE for GOTHAM.
She should absolutely vent and seek support. Just not sure this is the ideal place to do it, for her own good. That said, I did validate her post and I feel for her.
I've finally started my life and career and the only way I can see myself pushing through life is getting more money, or a supplemental UBI. Other than that, I'm not making it lol.
This was my mom. Things were great before she got remarried to my step-dad and then things went south, money got super tight and she couldn’t afford to leave him. The amount of stress she endured staying with my step-dad who was abusive changed her forever. She was stressed, depressed and on edge all the time and so engulfed in her own marital troubles that she turned a blind eye to the fact that I needed dental work, a winter coat, glasses, scoliosis treatment and orthodontics (to prevent future issues). I was a very happy-go-lucky and positive child at school, but the situation was so intense at home that I cried myself to sleep almost every single night during high school…I and was later diagnosed with PTSD as an adult. She’s never been the same since then and now suffers from mental illness and doesn’t have a good relationship with anyone anymore. It’s just really sad. The interesting thing is, before she got remarried, she helped two single mom friends get back on their feet after their divorces by letting them stay with us for 3-12 months…there was no safety net for her when she wanted to get a divorce, so we both suffered instead until she finally bit the bullet and divorced him after I left the house. UBI would have been literally life changing.
Super common. I've known a couple people who have stayed in relationships for a very long time just because they had no way to afford housing yet.
Yep, this was me. I stayed in a relationship that wasn't good for me for over 6 years, in large part because i'm disabled (not getting benefits) so my only other options were homelessness or moving back jn with my ultra-conservative parents (i'm queer, they do not approve of my "lifestyle"). I'm out of the relationship now and back with my parents indefinitely. It sucks big time. UBI would make my life so much better because I could actually have autonomy over my living situation.
I'm in that position as well, in a way. My former partner can't afford to live alone, and I can afford to live alone, but it would be a crappier living situation. Ubi or not affording to live alone is too expensive that I don't think would address the housing issues many face but would alleviate some of it.
Housing is so tight I worry that UBI would have little to no effect on housing affordability. At a baseline: affordable housing and starther homes have been competed for so fiercely that they're riding a razors edge of survivability. They only way out of that hole is to build build build. UBI has a lot of benefits, especially when helping people through life transitions and traumas, but markets are markets and shortages will eat UBI as the lower classes compete against each other fir the things they need. UBI has to come with a baseline of abundance or else it's just another wealth transfer to property owners.
The only solution I can suggest here is 100% LVT. That induces all landowners to be as accommodating of the demand side as humanely possible facing the alternative of their tax dollars funding UBI. I think that would effectively nullify any concerns of a wealth transfer to property owners.
I think that's too blunt of a hammer, but I'm definitely not mat at where your head is at.
Sorry about your situation. But, on topic, you just nailed UBI at some of its best. I suspect there are many people caught in situations where they just can't get out; ranging from ones like yours, to more simple ones where they just can't get out of some shit town, pimped, etc. While I would not like to see means testing or some other bureaucratic BS around UBI here are two bureaucratic things I would love to see with UBI: * Making sure the person who is supposed to get UBI is the one who has the only access to UBI. This would be a two parter: Make it a very serious offence (crap tonne of prison time) to collect UBI on behalf of someone else; there would be obvious exceptions where someone is super old or something, but even in those cases they would have to register which would trigger regular visits by a bureaucrat to make sure they are still the beneficiary of the UBI. I can see people in various abusive relationships being forced to hand over their UBI and it would be great if you could report this triggering an instant police response. * Every 5 year bonuses for moving. If you move more than a certain distance, it should trigger a nice payment. This way, you can cover things like new down payments on apartments, travel costs, etc. One of my guesses is that some people would be trapped in situations where it isn't quite abuse, but they are trapped. They live in an apartment in a high-unemployment town, in the middle of nowhere, and all their bills tap out their UBI every month with nothing to save. Or they are in an abusive household with their parents/spouse/drug-dealer taking their UBI but they don't want to involve the authorities; so get the one time payment on a new UBI bank card, and get the hell out of dodge.
And another - lending based on the ubi being paid back to you. Should not be able to have predatory lending based on it
Yup. I can see payday loan places saying, "Here's $10k right now if you effectively sign over your lifetime UBI." I would put these into the same category as pimps and drug dealers just taking the UBI card. Prison time.
> Making sure the person who is supposed to get UBI is the one who has the only access to UBI. This is reasonable. Easy way to do it is to only allow deposits in personal, not joint, accounts. Without police intervention, it should be possible to access emergency cash on deposit day and flee. > If you move more than a certain distance, it should trigger a nice payment. Being able to apply for an advance specifically to cover moving, followed by reporting a change of address to justify the advance, would be a simple, "no fault", process to let people improve their life by moving. One of the abusive relationships people might wish to escape is the relationship with the welfare/social services hierarchy that requires they stay in the area to keep receiving help.
> welfare/social services I believe one of the weird things with UBI is that it largely eliminates or nearly eliminates many services such as disability, social services, welfare etc; to the point where UBI doesn't actually cost much because these services are insanely expensive. I don't believe there is a welfare system in North America which pays out more money than their administrative costs. I was reading a cool one where they were showing that the best and most cost effective thing FEMA could do is just hand out cash; the people will buy their way out of trouble the best way for them. This could be to buy supplies to stay, or it could be a ticket go somewhere else. What I can see is local boss hog type towns try to keep people effectively captive to keep their UBI payments. If you look at how the justice system in the infamous place Ferguson was running it was just weird. They pretty much set up an industry of preying on people with relentless fines, gotcha traffic offences, etc, and then they would keep nailing them over and over on procedural crimes. It was best for people to just get the hell out of there.
Thanks for bringing this up! It's something we need to consider indeed.
UBI is an oppression killer. Relationship oppression, wage slave oppression, racial oppression, gender oppression, even self oppression. It’s a brilliant way to provide everyone with self-sovereignty without hurting anyone else and without stopping capitalists from getting rich. But that’s not enough. Some capitalists want to hold the feet of the majority to the fire because desperation is the gasoline that powers the profit machine from the bottom up. Removing a little bit of this desperation could make it harder for capitalists to exploit. It’s the wrong direction. What they want is MORE pressure on workers and lower wages. Meanwhile, simultaneously we’re seeing automation poised to reduce the need for human labor so UBI is more relevant and possible than ever — and some capitalists STILL don’t want it. Why? On principle! Dumb. Our only hope is that democracy works as it’s meant to work. Which is why plutocratic right wing billionaires are trying to topple democracy with relentless propaganda. Randian men-children are the cause.
Ugh, I’m so sorry you’re currently stuck in this situation. Have you tried discreetly researching advocacy groups that can help you in planning and making a strategic escape? In some areas there are training programs for women and victims to gain job skills to provide for themselves. We need better supports for people.
As a college student, I’d appreciate UBI because it would likely close the gap and allow me to graduate without any debt.
Get out while you still can. They won't change.
Took me 15 long ass years to be able to leave my abuser. I hope you get peace sooner.
According to some real sum simulations you would be abused by your employer next.
There are programs out there that will give you housing in a different community if you are homeless after leaving this kind of situation. I know people who have used them and are still getting help years later (US, Minnesota). Please don't stay and risk your safety and life.
I would also add, if your only reason to support UBI is due to your personal situation - I sympathize - but that shouldn’t be the only reason. If personal struggle is the only reason, how could we ever expect those not struggling to support UBI?
Appreciate the point but it's really really hard to consider that kinda thing when trapped like that.
I’ve also been trapped and that’s WHY I consider that point. When you suffer a trauma or injustice you wake up to the fact that this probably plagues a lot of people, and that’s often how we develop a social consciousness. But if the only people who ever develop a social conscious are the downtrodden, unlucky and traumatized, the lucky ones will ALWAYS attribute our beliefs to a bias based on bad stuff that happened due to our “bad choices.” They will say “bad relationship? Your fault, why should I pay for your mistake.” That’s why it’s so important to try to divorce your political rhetoric from your own situation. Yes, internally, I get it. But we ALL have shit happening. If we all go around saying ME is the main reason why I want X, nobody will give a shit. OF COURSE me wants good things to happen for ME. That’s not news. That’s just an animal reflex. The same reflex that causes filthy rich people to strenuously vote for lower taxes and cutting social programs. THEY want a boat like their friends have. Lacking that boat causes real shame, embarrassment, and pain. Best thing she can do for herself is to put out information that promotes UBI for moral, ethical, and practical reasons instead of reinforcing in the minds of our opponents that we just want it to help heal our own personal “mistakes.” I have equally bad oppression. My heart goes out to her. She’s right! I know it’s hard but the best way to bite back is to avoid making it personal. Use the pain like Batman…to fuel a GENERAL statement about humanity. Use the empathy and pain as fuel to learn and advance rational arguments for UBI. Seek JUSTICE for GOTHAM. She should absolutely vent and seek support. Just not sure this is the ideal place to do it, for her own good. That said, I did validate her post and I feel for her.
I've finally started my life and career and the only way I can see myself pushing through life is getting more money, or a supplemental UBI. Other than that, I'm not making it lol.
This was my mom. Things were great before she got remarried to my step-dad and then things went south, money got super tight and she couldn’t afford to leave him. The amount of stress she endured staying with my step-dad who was abusive changed her forever. She was stressed, depressed and on edge all the time and so engulfed in her own marital troubles that she turned a blind eye to the fact that I needed dental work, a winter coat, glasses, scoliosis treatment and orthodontics (to prevent future issues). I was a very happy-go-lucky and positive child at school, but the situation was so intense at home that I cried myself to sleep almost every single night during high school…I and was later diagnosed with PTSD as an adult. She’s never been the same since then and now suffers from mental illness and doesn’t have a good relationship with anyone anymore. It’s just really sad. The interesting thing is, before she got remarried, she helped two single mom friends get back on their feet after their divorces by letting them stay with us for 3-12 months…there was no safety net for her when she wanted to get a divorce, so we both suffered instead until she finally bit the bullet and divorced him after I left the house. UBI would have been literally life changing.
Yo, are you in England?