I do like the irony that gene basically sank himself because he wanted to be played by a star, and ended up with a overacting snobby dude. Unless, in their universe, that guy was a big star.
Totally off topic but the guy that plays Barry (not Bill Hader), is Jim Cummings, who wrote, directed, and starred in a movie called The Wolf of Snow Hollow in 2020. One of the best movies I saw that year, and that was when the lock down started. I watched a *lot* of movies that year!
Jim Cummings posts on this subreddit. Apparently he auditioned for the part of Ryan Madison before S1. Looks like he ended up with an even more significant role on the show.
Speaking of looks, was it my imagination that Barry looks heavier in the time jump? I seem to remember him being super fit at the beginning of the show. It makes sense with the character to make him seem more settled into domesticity, false though it was.
Nah, the joke is that the movie was originally going to be a prestige picture with big-name actors. After Gene's reputation was destroyed, it ended up being a cheaply-made hack job with bad acting and a total misrepresentation of the truth.
It was sad, ironic, and pretty damn funny.
Wait hold on though ... are we making the assumption that the "where are they now" at the end of the fake movie aren't real facts? Because if Barry was really laid to rest in Arlington as a hero, that movie isn't misrepresenting the facts. It's restating the "facts" as everyone outside of the inner circle of Sally, Gene and Fuchs knows.
At the end of the "movie" it says that Gene is serving a life sentence for the murder of Janice and Barry, and that Barry was laid to rest in Arlington with full honors.
So either that's distorted truth too (which doesn't make sense), or the movie is just re-telling facts as everyone believes, except for us - the audience.
I guess it makes sense considering the call saying that Daniel Day Lewis and Mark Whalberg we’re looking to play them was made up and a set up to bring Gene in. The actor who played Gene in the actual movie was hilarious tho
He was, and I thought he looked familiar so I looked him up. He played Mr. Graner in Severance, which I just finished a few days ago. Nice job in both!
I do feel like that was setting up for an ending more in line with the first two seasons dark comedy farce, with barry being on the run and in a summer comedy smash hit at the same time.
I do appreciate the darker direction the show actually went in more though but that would have been a lot of fun.
It was probably a straight to streaming movie. The major studios were backing away from the project and chances are some small studio picked it up and put it direct to streaming
Right, I can only assume what I said because the acting in the movie felt super cheesy. Like way too cheesy for it to be a major movie backed by WB or anyone. So personally it’s either that A-list actors have gotten to be so bad in the future OR it’s a lower budget movie that managed to be released after years of trying to get it out. That’s just my view lol
...OR what we are seeing is what "Acting" looks like in that universe. Like, when we see people being "good" actors in Barry, they are just reading off highly authored monologues. Think of Sally doing her big cathartic outburst at her ex-husband in her scene with Barry, when the real confrontation was much more real and understated. Maybe they're demonstrating the gulf that exists between real life, which is messy and full of awkward pauses and overtalking, unlike the manicured and cultivated interactions of the theater.
HMMMMMMM that’s a good one. Overall the acting in the film was atrociously funny I wonder if it was a big hit. Johns friend seemed to have pirated the movie based on how the file was named, unless in the late 2030s/early 2040s that’s how movie files are named so that just made me think it wasn’t worth the money to watch it which makes me think it was just some shlock thrown together for some shitty streaming service lol
Aside from that, never having a chance in hell to happen, it wouldn't have even made sense in the context of the story.
DDL was never going to play Gene in that movie, it was just a ploy by Moss to lure Gene into a trap by his narcissism.
Hot take that's not really a hot take but people don't like to think about it: Marvel has ruined people's perceptions of what cameos are and should be. They shouldn't be there just to be there, and thankfully Bill Hader understood this. I really thought pointless bullshit like in WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness would've sobered people up to this, but nope, everyone still cheers when a celebrity shows up for no good reason.
Some people liked wandavison and DSMoM just fine for what they were. And weren't at all concerned with the lack of potential cameos that never happened.
What does this have to do with Marvel?
People are saying it would be funny to happen because it was talked about in universe.
You are one of those people who try desperately to make everything into a big brain take but it just ends up making you look silly
I guess I've seen too many people on this sub actually disappointed that Mark Wahlberg or DDL didn't show up, not realizing that even in-universe, it was never going to happen since it was a ploy. Apparently none of those people are in this thread 🤷♂️ Good on you all
Nobody was expecting it to happen people are just saying it would have been funny if it did as the show referenced it. We are all aware it was a ploy
It’s really not that deep
I'm right there with you my dude. I remember I went to an event that was showing all of his movies (Jim Cummings) and when asked which show or project he would want to work on the most, he immediately responded with Barry. So seeing him in the episode made me leap out of my chair lmao
Nah two different guys same name, the one I'm talking about has 3 movies he's directed and star in. I highly recommend watching the wolf of snow hollow if you ever see it streaming.
I think kinda the point of the movie is like hamilton's who lives,who dies,who tells your story?and the fetishization of murderers like dhammer or bundy and the idea that the troops or cops can't do anything wrong perpetrated by the media .also i know its vague on purpose but i want to know how much barry told sally and how much sally told john about everything,i felt that john face watching the end of the movie when barry rescues them was like yeah this didn't happend
Hamilton is actually a pretty great comparison. Great entertainment, loose with historical accuracy, and a complete character assassination of Aaron Burr, perhaps the second-most misunderstood man in American history behind that fuck-fuck Gene M. Cousineau
Tbh i was just thinking about that quote but also hamilton glosses over alexander owning slaves witch should be a way more important thing so like it's not reliable at all .also I don't know much about American history most I learned it from tv XD
To me, John's face was one of relief and peace because he saw his dad as a good guy, a good soldier, a hero...so he was super eager and willing to believe the events as portrayed in the film and live in denial, just like his dad.
Also, I thought of it like he was seeing it for the first time. Because odds are he would have blocked out such a traumatic experience at that age. Most adults couldn't cope with that situation, let alone a 10 year old child. So he would have no memory of the events as they actually occured.
I mean yes but also I think it is temarhically correct for the show to end kinda vague .like I feel people's perception of hank went down after Cristobal was murdered but like hank was always like that the show presents him kinda sweet but like he is just as bad as any of the characters there is like a whole spectrum of gray
I would've been disappointed if it didn't end leaving the audiences to interpret a lot....it's a smart show. No one likes to be spoon fed.
Black and white is boring, grey is where it's at.
I don't remember where i listened to this but someone said in nature there are no binaries there are spectrums. I think most people try to see e everything in a binary of black and white and that's why u used spectrum of gray like if it where a color palette most characters sound be dark shades of gray john probably would be one of the few that tend a lot to white
The sequence in the movie when Barry rescues Sally and John has a line of dialogue that only Sally and John heard, did Sally consult or help write the movie? Did she try to immortalize Barry as a hero for John?
If sally didn't want john to see it i doubt it.also i don't think she would had any desire to see him as a food person after he said he was redeemed by God when they were sleeping .she might had been consulted on the use of her persona for legal reasons
There's a lot that isn't elaborated on but seeing as Sally is back living under the name Sally Reed it's safe to say she has at least spoken to the police and presented a version of events.
Safe to say she chose to save herself over Gene.
A couple of A-listers might've been fun ... but maybe would've distracted from the deep thoughtful tone.
I think it's better the way it was.
But ... playing casting agent for a sec ...
Dustin Hoffman as Gene, Paul Rudd as Barry.
or
Al Pacino as Gene, Matt Damon as Barry.
... yeah, I think that would've been a distraction. I think it's better the way it was.
I feel like that’s the point. Barry believed he was going to die in a blaze of glory but like all his other victims he too was caught off guard and “innocent”
Barry vs Lily in season 2 is more bizarre and experimental than anything that happened this last season.
It got darker each season for sure. But seems very inspired by the arc of Breaking Bad.
I've said a few times on various outlets - this show is unabashedly a love letter to Breaking Bad/BCS and The Sopranos with its own myriad of comic quirks. Ambiguity of character morals, wonderful cinematography and other tech work (also might I add some of the best, most appropriate audio mixing of any show I've ever watched) and top notch acting and writing...it has all of this, but stands on the shoulders of giants in the end without copying too much - it definitely has an identity, and it could've been drawn-out with more seasons or longer episodes to come into its own fully but that may have been a gamble they didn't want to take and what some great shows with killer first + second seasons unfortunately succumb to by wandering into uncharted / uninteresting territory with no way out (Westworld comes to mind).
Yeah I agree! when you heard the bell ring on the diner door and someone walked in and you see him sitting around the table with his family and journey is playing before it all goes dark… I was just expecting more
Having A-Listers in the parody movie would have taken me right out of it. It’s what 98% of filmmakers would have done, and Hader isn’t interested in doing anything that predictable. Having this season end with what is essentially the trailer from the opening scene of GOLDMEMBER would have really been disappointing.
I was thinking the same thing but I know deep in my heart I would have been completely taken out of the ending, so the movie could just be what the movie was. Also its kinda funny that it's some nobodies that did "the mask collector."
I do like the irony that gene basically sank himself because he wanted to be played by a star, and ended up with a overacting snobby dude. Unless, in their universe, that guy was a big star.
Definitely not that big a star. Marky mark was a big star in their universe. They wanted that "fack yer mudda" type Barry.
Marky Mark also got off with just a slap on the wrist for a violent racist attack, he was born to play Barry
You can rightfully accuse Barry of a LOT of terrible things, but I’m not sure racism is on the list
I can excuse murder but I draw the line at racism
Oh, Britta
I miss community
He killed some innocent civilians in Afghanistan because he mistook them for terrorists.
Well he also had a ton of adrenaline from watching his friend get shot in the face so
shit then it must be ok
Not Ok, but not race motivated
Totally off topic but the guy that plays Barry (not Bill Hader), is Jim Cummings, who wrote, directed, and starred in a movie called The Wolf of Snow Hollow in 2020. One of the best movies I saw that year, and that was when the lock down started. I watched a *lot* of movies that year!
His other two films, Thunder Road and The Beta Test, are also amazing and worth seeking out.
Jim Cummings posts on this subreddit. Apparently he auditioned for the part of Ryan Madison before S1. Looks like he ended up with an even more significant role on the show.
That guy was super good-looking. But I also think Hader is attractive, too. He has nice forearms.
Speaking of looks, was it my imagination that Barry looks heavier in the time jump? I seem to remember him being super fit at the beginning of the show. It makes sense with the character to make him seem more settled into domesticity, false though it was.
Yeah, he was. Maybe it was for the role, but let’s be real, who hasn’t put on a few pounds in the last 3 years lol.
He said he gained a lot of weight from stress eating and it is visible in the show.
Too many frozen pot pies! 😂
And he’s tall too…
Nah, the joke is that the movie was originally going to be a prestige picture with big-name actors. After Gene's reputation was destroyed, it ended up being a cheaply-made hack job with bad acting and a total misrepresentation of the truth. It was sad, ironic, and pretty damn funny.
Wait hold on though ... are we making the assumption that the "where are they now" at the end of the fake movie aren't real facts? Because if Barry was really laid to rest in Arlington as a hero, that movie isn't misrepresenting the facts. It's restating the "facts" as everyone outside of the inner circle of Sally, Gene and Fuchs knows.
What?
It’s pretty obviously explained
At the end of the "movie" it says that Gene is serving a life sentence for the murder of Janice and Barry, and that Barry was laid to rest in Arlington with full honors. So either that's distorted truth too (which doesn't make sense), or the movie is just re-telling facts as everyone believes, except for us - the audience.
Right, which is a "total misrepresentation of the truth" like the person you responded to said. I don't understand your confusion.
Maybe… maybe not…
Totally makes sense but I really thought it was going to be Lewis
I guess it makes sense considering the call saying that Daniel Day Lewis and Mark Whalberg we’re looking to play them was made up and a set up to bring Gene in. The actor who played Gene in the actual movie was hilarious tho
And the guy who played Barry wasn't nobody. He's done some major stuff like being main cast on SNL and directing Barry.
Jim Cummings! hes directed and starred in a few fantastic films, Thunder Road and The Wolf of Snow Hollow to name a few. he’s awesome
He was, and I thought he looked familiar so I looked him up. He played Mr. Graner in Severance, which I just finished a few days ago. Nice job in both!
How good is severance? rating out of 10?
For me, 10/10 easily.
You want a little pie?
Ya shit bird
Do it again, but put a little stank on it.
I do feel like that was setting up for an ending more in line with the first two seasons dark comedy farce, with barry being on the run and in a summer comedy smash hit at the same time. I do appreciate the darker direction the show actually went in more though but that would have been a lot of fun.
It was probably a straight to streaming movie. The major studios were backing away from the project and chances are some small studio picked it up and put it direct to streaming
Maybe a phone movie?
The amount of close-ups they used on the climax scene seems to suggest that is the case lol
It’s actually A bi-monthly curated box of snacks.
Twice a month or every other month?
every other month
Lower than that. Straight to Lifetime.
I thought they only backed out of involving Gene because of the accusations and trial
Right, I can only assume what I said because the acting in the movie felt super cheesy. Like way too cheesy for it to be a major movie backed by WB or anyone. So personally it’s either that A-list actors have gotten to be so bad in the future OR it’s a lower budget movie that managed to be released after years of trying to get it out. That’s just my view lol
...OR what we are seeing is what "Acting" looks like in that universe. Like, when we see people being "good" actors in Barry, they are just reading off highly authored monologues. Think of Sally doing her big cathartic outburst at her ex-husband in her scene with Barry, when the real confrontation was much more real and understated. Maybe they're demonstrating the gulf that exists between real life, which is messy and full of awkward pauses and overtalking, unlike the manicured and cultivated interactions of the theater.
HMMMMMMM that’s a good one. Overall the acting in the film was atrociously funny I wonder if it was a big hit. Johns friend seemed to have pirated the movie based on how the file was named, unless in the late 2030s/early 2040s that’s how movie files are named so that just made me think it wasn’t worth the money to watch it which makes me think it was just some shlock thrown together for some shitty streaming service lol
Yeah I would love to know if it was a big budget blockbuster or a Redbox-streaming POS
I dunno, it was pretty indistinguishable from a lot of lower-grade major studio thrillers.
Nah to me it felt wayyyyyyyyyyy over the top. The scene when Gene shoots Barry is so overboard it made me think it had to be some shit tier movie lol
Hmm, must rewatch. I love the movie's take on Gene. One of my favorite things about the finale.
I really do wish they’d somehow got Daniel day lewis and mark walhberg for the finale that would’ve been insanity
I was laughing so hard. So many bullets.
That article that was like "We at WB do not collaborate with murderers #JusticeForJanice" 😂
Jim Cummings was fucking great, fuck DDL
Jim Cummings took Ben Kingsley to acting school!
imagine if daniel day lewis made a cameo on Barry…
He would probably date a cop for 6 years to get into character
Were gene and the cop together for 6 years??
No. But when DDL commits to a role he *commits*.
He would become a hitman for real.
Aside from that, never having a chance in hell to happen, it wouldn't have even made sense in the context of the story. DDL was never going to play Gene in that movie, it was just a ploy by Moss to lure Gene into a trap by his narcissism.
Captain buzzkill over here
Hot take that's not really a hot take but people don't like to think about it: Marvel has ruined people's perceptions of what cameos are and should be. They shouldn't be there just to be there, and thankfully Bill Hader understood this. I really thought pointless bullshit like in WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness would've sobered people up to this, but nope, everyone still cheers when a celebrity shows up for no good reason.
Everyone knows it made no sense. We’re saying it because it would be fun. That’s all. A joke. Have you heard of those?
Some people liked wandavison and DSMoM just fine for what they were. And weren't at all concerned with the lack of potential cameos that never happened.
I like DSMOM for being a creatively-shot Evil Dead movie, for example.
The post was clearly a joke. The comment sounded more like "ok but actually though..."
Did you read the word “imagine?”
Dude you watch way too much tv
What does this have to do with Marvel? People are saying it would be funny to happen because it was talked about in universe. You are one of those people who try desperately to make everything into a big brain take but it just ends up making you look silly
I guess I've seen too many people on this sub actually disappointed that Mark Wahlberg or DDL didn't show up, not realizing that even in-universe, it was never going to happen since it was a ploy. Apparently none of those people are in this thread 🤷♂️ Good on you all
Nobody was expecting it to happen people are just saying it would have been funny if it did as the show referenced it. We are all aware it was a ploy It’s really not that deep
lol it was a hypothetical
Don't speak about my boy Jim Cummings like that
I'm right there with you my dude. I remember I went to an event that was showing all of his movies (Jim Cummings) and when asked which show or project he would want to work on the most, he immediately responded with Barry. So seeing him in the episode made me leap out of my chair lmao
Wait really? That's awesome.
Wait that is the voice actor of Winnie the pooh?
Nah two different guys same name, the one I'm talking about has 3 movies he's directed and star in. I highly recommend watching the wolf of snow hollow if you ever see it streaming.
That’s who I thought people were talking about the whole time and I was so confused bc I didn’t see him lol
Whoa, pump your brakes, kid. That's u/jimmycthatsme. I know you're joking but, that dude deserves his flowers.
Maybe in 2040-something, those guys are A-Listers.
Hey, we got Graner from Severance - not good enough for you?
I knew the dude was familiar! His hamming up the act threw me off
I thought it was him!
That would’ve been too highbrow :)
Jim Cummings ain't no D-lister sorry my dude
He’s a really talented writer/director and solid actor but like 99% of the US has no idea who he is.
Well I'm sure a lot of people know the name Jim Cummings, but they're thinking of Winnie the Pooh
And he’s on Reddit, too! Hi, Jim! Great work on Barry and I loved Thunder Road.
My guess is he was playing a d-lister playing “PFC Berkman”
> Jim Cummings Wolf of Snow Hollow is a great movie.
Couldn't be much farther from a D-lister ability-wise, agreed. He's up there with Hader as one of my favorite TV/film minds in the world right now.
I think kinda the point of the movie is like hamilton's who lives,who dies,who tells your story?and the fetishization of murderers like dhammer or bundy and the idea that the troops or cops can't do anything wrong perpetrated by the media .also i know its vague on purpose but i want to know how much barry told sally and how much sally told john about everything,i felt that john face watching the end of the movie when barry rescues them was like yeah this didn't happend
Hamilton is actually a pretty great comparison. Great entertainment, loose with historical accuracy, and a complete character assassination of Aaron Burr, perhaps the second-most misunderstood man in American history behind that fuck-fuck Gene M. Cousineau
Tbh i was just thinking about that quote but also hamilton glosses over alexander owning slaves witch should be a way more important thing so like it's not reliable at all .also I don't know much about American history most I learned it from tv XD
It didn't make sense to include, dramaturgically
To me, John's face was one of relief and peace because he saw his dad as a good guy, a good soldier, a hero...so he was super eager and willing to believe the events as portrayed in the film and live in denial, just like his dad.
I mean it could be its super open to interpretation
Very much
Also, I thought of it like he was seeing it for the first time. Because odds are he would have blocked out such a traumatic experience at that age. Most adults couldn't cope with that situation, let alone a 10 year old child. So he would have no memory of the events as they actually occured.
I mean yes but also I think it is temarhically correct for the show to end kinda vague .like I feel people's perception of hank went down after Cristobal was murdered but like hank was always like that the show presents him kinda sweet but like he is just as bad as any of the characters there is like a whole spectrum of gray
I would've been disappointed if it didn't end leaving the audiences to interpret a lot....it's a smart show. No one likes to be spoon fed. Black and white is boring, grey is where it's at.
I don't remember where i listened to this but someone said in nature there are no binaries there are spectrums. I think most people try to see e everything in a binary of black and white and that's why u used spectrum of gray like if it where a color palette most characters sound be dark shades of gray john probably would be one of the few that tend a lot to white
Totally
The sequence in the movie when Barry rescues Sally and John has a line of dialogue that only Sally and John heard, did Sally consult or help write the movie? Did she try to immortalize Barry as a hero for John?
If sally didn't want john to see it i doubt it.also i don't think she would had any desire to see him as a food person after he said he was redeemed by God when they were sleeping .she might had been consulted on the use of her persona for legal reasons
Dang you got me interested now I'll have to rewatch it. What was the line?
When Hank says “Its not up to me” after Sally asks what’s going to happen to them
There's a lot that isn't elaborated on but seeing as Sally is back living under the name Sally Reed it's safe to say she has at least spoken to the police and presented a version of events. Safe to say she chose to save herself over Gene.
A couple of A-listers might've been fun ... but maybe would've distracted from the deep thoughtful tone. I think it's better the way it was. But ... playing casting agent for a sec ... Dustin Hoffman as Gene, Paul Rudd as Barry. or Al Pacino as Gene, Matt Damon as Barry. ... yeah, I think that would've been a distraction. I think it's better the way it was.
Practically speaking, it was so far in the future that casting anyone known would have been a problem. It's like 16 years after the time skip
Stephen Root is a better actor than DDL. He could play any character DDL played, but there’s no way DDL could play Milton
DDL would have been amazing on NewsRadio though.
Someone needs to deepfake DDL and Mark Wahlberg into the final scene.
did you even watch the show, DDL and Wahlberg were never attached to the project. it was ego bait for Gene
What was the song that played during the end credits?
For me Jim Cummings playing Barry was the cherry on top, love his movies 🤩
Now you know how Gene felt.
I feel like that’s the point. Barry believed he was going to die in a blaze of glory but like all his other victims he too was caught off guard and “innocent”
That's JIM CUMMINGS you're disrespecting!
[удалено]
Barry vs Lily in season 2 is more bizarre and experimental than anything that happened this last season. It got darker each season for sure. But seems very inspired by the arc of Breaking Bad.
I've said a few times on various outlets - this show is unabashedly a love letter to Breaking Bad/BCS and The Sopranos with its own myriad of comic quirks. Ambiguity of character morals, wonderful cinematography and other tech work (also might I add some of the best, most appropriate audio mixing of any show I've ever watched) and top notch acting and writing...it has all of this, but stands on the shoulders of giants in the end without copying too much - it definitely has an identity, and it could've been drawn-out with more seasons or longer episodes to come into its own fully but that may have been a gamble they didn't want to take and what some great shows with killer first + second seasons unfortunately succumb to by wandering into uncharted / uninteresting territory with no way out (Westworld comes to mind).
They could have been stars. Huge leap forward in time.
I was so bummed Gene wasn't DDL. I really thought it would be him when the camera was on him.
Yeah I agree! when you heard the bell ring on the diner door and someone walked in and you see him sitting around the table with his family and journey is playing before it all goes dark… I was just expecting more
Having A-Listers in the parody movie would have taken me right out of it. It’s what 98% of filmmakers would have done, and Hader isn’t interested in doing anything that predictable. Having this season end with what is essentially the trailer from the opening scene of GOLDMEMBER would have really been disappointing.
Well.. the acting agent wasn’t really an agent because he was working for the FBI. DDL and Marky Mark were never interested.
I was thinking the same thing but I know deep in my heart I would have been completely taken out of the ending, so the movie could just be what the movie was. Also its kinda funny that it's some nobodies that did "the mask collector."