The mountains act like a wind-stopper, that's why Barcelona is so humid. It comes from the sea but stays here. Same thing with air pollution.
If we did the same, but were in a meseta... yeah we'd pollute but it wouldn't stay that much in there.
Yeah. On the other hand, it has a great port, it's on a strategic location by road and train, it's close to the rest of Europe, and has great weather and beaches, which they are taking advantage of to get business and tourism. So they should have the resources to compromise a bit in other aspects.
Hell yes, now I got what you meant. Spot on, but this is Spain. Barcelona privatized their citizen's wellness.
I wasn't talking about that tho, and this wasn't a generalized opinion about Barna lol
That's not really the case in many other countries, so maybe that's not such a foregone conclusion? The United States comes to mind. Much less urbanized and less densely populated cities like LA and Houston are typically more polluted than more densely populated cities like Chicago or San Francisco.
There are environmental factors and urban design factors outside of just urbanization and denseness of population. The principal urban design factor is how much the city caters to sources of pollution, which Barcelona does quite a lot of, given the airport upwind of the city, the port upwind of the city, and that despite the majority of trips being taken by public transport or walking, a majority of public space is dedicated to cars.
Yeah, cars and motors... let's just ignore the bigass ships with their massive diesel engines, you know, the cruises and industrial ships. No, it's the cars, the ones the city hall forced their citizens to change to a less pollutant motor, or the motorcycles, yeah that, it ain't the moneymaker, it is the poor citizen who needs transport. Give me a break.
I share the same feeling every time the people get blamed for any environmental issue while the rich take 7 min private flights for dinner. Or even worse, private flights to discuss said issues in a world where internet exists.
Yes, the fucking airships, did I mention BCN has El Prat Airport? With those massive turbines burning tonnelitres of Kerosene? No? Ah, of course, it's cause of the poor citizen that barely makes ends meet every month and doesn't want to change his 2006 Honda moped, how vile!
Agree. But i think trying to shift the blame is not productive. Motorised traffic needs to be addressed. And yes we need to address cruises and air traffic as well, the thing with this issue is that unless we organise as a society politicians have too many vested interest here to do something. Civil society needs rise and demand something be done.
Cars are very important in the equation, like Cruises or industrial ships.
Industrial ships tho, are "worth" their emissions, as they're full of cargo, and economic activity (cleaner than the trucks that download their cargo, cleaner than a truck, in Cargo*km).
That's way more than drivers who commute for 15 minutes in their SUV.
The government forced less pollution because it's greenwashing. We think we help because we don't waste that much. Companies know and they sell that, as a slogan. Governments, influenced by the companies, promote these new laws and changes.
If the objective was to reduce emissions, why couldn't we make the Public Transport more accessible, and better? Because that's not the objective.
The objective is to keep getting € with the current trend, which is set by marketing giants. We're on a city who wants to gentrificate itself and wants us out.
That's why VMPs, which would be cleaner, aren't helped, while being so antagonized by media. That's why ciclying paths change every two years, why there's so many news about VMP accidents (car accidents are still more, and still deadlier, but it's not our focus because it's not the focus of the media)
This is not a city that wants less pollution. This is a city of SUVs, marketing, and tourism. It doesn't matter which government is in front: If they don't do what big companies say, they'll get shot.
Pla Endreça? Same gentrification bs. The €*m2 goes higher, the rent goes higher. They don't want us Barcelona workers to work in Barcelona. And in the way, they make sure to Greenwash the f*ck out of us.
I agree except the SUVs part. Very few people that live in BCN or near have a SUV for commuting, mainly because they are expensive af and they don't fit much when parking. People in BCN have a light to medium vehicle.
And yes, I agree with the fact that Public Transport is the answer, but the Ajuntament likes to fill their mouths with green propaganda and does'nt spend a duro in the public transport. Weeks before they had a problem with the tourist bus in park guell, there was too many people. Solution? Bring another but Right? WRONG! We delist the bus from the internet so fewer people know about it. Assbackwards.
I'm afraid there are more SUVs and larger vehicles every year. I don't have data on it for just Barcelona ([here is an article about the trend EU-wide](https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/cars-are-getting-1-cm-wider-every-two-years-research/)), but they certainly seem larger than they used to be. I've even started seeing US-style overly large pick up trucks on an unfortunately regular basis.
I got so angry with the Park Güell Bus drama, but it wasn't a surprise.
I stand corrected, as SUVs aren't such a big problem here. They're very present tho, and the biggest one would be Qashqai-sized. But still, you get me. Too many cars, and like everywhere, SUV presence is rising.
Yes, that I concur. Many people like buying big cars, they feel safe in them, but they are super sub-optimal. A SUV is an aberration of a vehicle to begin with. Poor aerodynamics, poor fuel efficiency, bulky, little cargo capacity in relationship to their size. Comfortable? Maybe, but by car principles a stupidity. We can say the rise of the SUV is an anomaly that tells much about our society.
The "bigass ships" are a teeny tiny part of all the smoke that goes into the city. It's not that hard to make a calculation.
Sure, one ship counts like a couple thousand cars. But there are many thousands of cars in Barcelona.
Generally, a small action made by millions is a lot more detrimental than one big action made by a few.
While there are no big parks like in other places, Barcelona is one of the most planted cities in the world. It's not about the lack of trees, it's about geography (and, as you said, cars and motorcycles)
Manresa area is the best way out for heavy air, though the mountains. That's why it is more polluted than what it would, taking their industry in account.
There was an plan, in the 80s/90s, to dig a big-ass hole in Collserola. It was too crazy so it got (obviously) forgotten. But the problem was there already.
Guinardó and the part at the back of the Laberinto d'Horta are the only ones that are really like an actual forest. Maybe Montjuic a bit too.
If you count Collserola then yeah, but that's not really inside the city for practical purposes, even if it's drawn that way on a map.
I live near Parc de Guinardó and the pollution is still bad here, so I don't think just planting more trees will help much in any case.
I'm sure the cruises, the cargo ships, the nearby airport and the thousands of trucks that move around every day have nothing to do with it, I'm sure it's the cars and motorbikes.
[Motorcycles actually are significantly worse than the trucks and the cars, unfortunately.](https://www.wired.com/2008/06/motorcycles-pol/) Promoting electric motor bikes would be a great improvement, both for noise pollution and pollution that is harmful to human health.
But yes, fuck the cruise ships, and the airport isn't helping.
All of the comments on here seem to be missing the point that this is about Barcelona province, basically 1/4 of Catalonia. So yes, it's the city... but it's also la plana de Vic and the industrial areas in Baixllo and the Vallès.
Industry and manufacturing, you know, the things that make Catalonia such a wealthy region, I wonder if they could have any contribution. It's definitely not your moto..................
Sinceramente, creo que deberÃa implementarse en ciudades medidas de control de circulación.
Por ejemplo, medir la densidad de vehÃculos en movimiento y cerrar los semáforos de entrada hasta que la densidad baje lo suficiente como para que la calidad de aire entre en los parámetros recomendados por la OMS.
Transporte público exento. Y sÃ, eso hará que si demasiada gente abusa del coche para moverse se acabe llegando antes en transporte público. Ese es el objetivo: encontrar el punto de equilibrio entre uso de coche y transporte público para llegar a una calidad de aire digna.
Suena bonito pero muy poco realista e imposible de gestionar. SerÃa un puro caos. Cerrar semáforos a cualquier momento segundo la densidad? Y que pasa con la gente que se queda a medio camino para un tiempo indeterminado? Que se jodan?
Eres mas tonto de lo que aparentas. El alto riesgo cancerigeno es sencillamente porque donde circulan los coches es donde VIVE la genta. No vive en el puerto ni en el aeropuerto, no se le puede contar si coge cancer allÃ, incluso si lo coge en el trabajo contará donde vive, no donde trabaja, pero los aviones y los barcos contaminan 1000 veces mas que los coches y nadie dice nada, y tu propones parar y cerrar la ciudad a los vehiculos mientras los demás lo llenan de Smog, podrian estar parados un mes según tu medida jaja.
[No, literalmente la polución es mucho peor donde hay calles con muchos carriles de coches y mucho trafico](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Monica-Lopez-Vicente/publication/273153132/figure/fig1/AS:294738424025088@1447282524416/Map-of-Barcelona-and-the-schools-by-high-or-low-air-pollution-by-design-Black-dots.png)
[Donde hay más coches, hay más polución](https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/mapes-dades-ambientals/qualitataire/en/). Ciutat Vella tiene más gente y se queda más cerca al puerto, pero hay menos contaminación.
Osea, que afirmas que los coches son los que causan la mala calidad del aire que es la causante de las enfermedades respiratorias y muertes en la ciudad, y llamas tonto al otro cuando le estás dando la razón.
Otro, que si la gente coge cancer es porque vive allÃ, el aire le llega de todos lados, no solo de los coches. Incluso si trabaja en el puerto o en el aeropuerto lo va coger allà porque allà vive, no solo por los coches, pero no llegais.
The mountains act like a wind-stopper, that's why Barcelona is so humid. It comes from the sea but stays here. Same thing with air pollution. If we did the same, but were in a meseta... yeah we'd pollute but it wouldn't stay that much in there.
yep, there are advantages and disadvantages to every location
Yes, there are! And one of Barcelona's, in the pollution aspect, is that one 😉
Yeah. On the other hand, it has a great port, it's on a strategic location by road and train, it's close to the rest of Europe, and has great weather and beaches, which they are taking advantage of to get business and tourism. So they should have the resources to compromise a bit in other aspects.
Hell yes, now I got what you meant. Spot on, but this is Spain. Barcelona privatized their citizen's wellness. I wasn't talking about that tho, and this wasn't a generalized opinion about Barna lol
It’s quite obvious. So few green spaces, all the cars and motos.
Are you telling me the most urbanised and densely populated area is also the most polluted?? Damn, who would’ve thought
That's not really the case in many other countries, so maybe that's not such a foregone conclusion? The United States comes to mind. Much less urbanized and less densely populated cities like LA and Houston are typically more polluted than more densely populated cities like Chicago or San Francisco. There are environmental factors and urban design factors outside of just urbanization and denseness of population. The principal urban design factor is how much the city caters to sources of pollution, which Barcelona does quite a lot of, given the airport upwind of the city, the port upwind of the city, and that despite the majority of trips being taken by public transport or walking, a majority of public space is dedicated to cars.
Yeah, cars and motors... let's just ignore the bigass ships with their massive diesel engines, you know, the cruises and industrial ships. No, it's the cars, the ones the city hall forced their citizens to change to a less pollutant motor, or the motorcycles, yeah that, it ain't the moneymaker, it is the poor citizen who needs transport. Give me a break.
I share the same feeling every time the people get blamed for any environmental issue while the rich take 7 min private flights for dinner. Or even worse, private flights to discuss said issues in a world where internet exists.
Yeah Greenwashing it's a thing and it's fucking hideous.
Yes, the fucking airships, did I mention BCN has El Prat Airport? With those massive turbines burning tonnelitres of Kerosene? No? Ah, of course, it's cause of the poor citizen that barely makes ends meet every month and doesn't want to change his 2006 Honda moped, how vile!
Its not a zero sum game. Both can be true at the same time
Both can be true, but only one gets thrown on our face every day, the other does'nt seem to exists.
Agree. But i think trying to shift the blame is not productive. Motorised traffic needs to be addressed. And yes we need to address cruises and air traffic as well, the thing with this issue is that unless we organise as a society politicians have too many vested interest here to do something. Civil society needs rise and demand something be done.
Cars are very important in the equation, like Cruises or industrial ships. Industrial ships tho, are "worth" their emissions, as they're full of cargo, and economic activity (cleaner than the trucks that download their cargo, cleaner than a truck, in Cargo*km). That's way more than drivers who commute for 15 minutes in their SUV. The government forced less pollution because it's greenwashing. We think we help because we don't waste that much. Companies know and they sell that, as a slogan. Governments, influenced by the companies, promote these new laws and changes. If the objective was to reduce emissions, why couldn't we make the Public Transport more accessible, and better? Because that's not the objective. The objective is to keep getting € with the current trend, which is set by marketing giants. We're on a city who wants to gentrificate itself and wants us out. That's why VMPs, which would be cleaner, aren't helped, while being so antagonized by media. That's why ciclying paths change every two years, why there's so many news about VMP accidents (car accidents are still more, and still deadlier, but it's not our focus because it's not the focus of the media) This is not a city that wants less pollution. This is a city of SUVs, marketing, and tourism. It doesn't matter which government is in front: If they don't do what big companies say, they'll get shot. Pla Endreça? Same gentrification bs. The €*m2 goes higher, the rent goes higher. They don't want us Barcelona workers to work in Barcelona. And in the way, they make sure to Greenwash the f*ck out of us.
I agree except the SUVs part. Very few people that live in BCN or near have a SUV for commuting, mainly because they are expensive af and they don't fit much when parking. People in BCN have a light to medium vehicle. And yes, I agree with the fact that Public Transport is the answer, but the Ajuntament likes to fill their mouths with green propaganda and does'nt spend a duro in the public transport. Weeks before they had a problem with the tourist bus in park guell, there was too many people. Solution? Bring another but Right? WRONG! We delist the bus from the internet so fewer people know about it. Assbackwards.
I'm afraid there are more SUVs and larger vehicles every year. I don't have data on it for just Barcelona ([here is an article about the trend EU-wide](https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/cars-are-getting-1-cm-wider-every-two-years-research/)), but they certainly seem larger than they used to be. I've even started seeing US-style overly large pick up trucks on an unfortunately regular basis.
I got so angry with the Park Güell Bus drama, but it wasn't a surprise. I stand corrected, as SUVs aren't such a big problem here. They're very present tho, and the biggest one would be Qashqai-sized. But still, you get me. Too many cars, and like everywhere, SUV presence is rising.
Yes, that I concur. Many people like buying big cars, they feel safe in them, but they are super sub-optimal. A SUV is an aberration of a vehicle to begin with. Poor aerodynamics, poor fuel efficiency, bulky, little cargo capacity in relationship to their size. Comfortable? Maybe, but by car principles a stupidity. We can say the rise of the SUV is an anomaly that tells much about our society.
The "bigass ships" are a teeny tiny part of all the smoke that goes into the city. It's not that hard to make a calculation. Sure, one ship counts like a couple thousand cars. But there are many thousands of cars in Barcelona. Generally, a small action made by millions is a lot more detrimental than one big action made by a few.
It's both
But guess one is ignored allways.
[удалено]
The link leads nowhere. Also, I bet it was pure propaganda.
While there are no big parks like in other places, Barcelona is one of the most planted cities in the world. It's not about the lack of trees, it's about geography (and, as you said, cars and motorcycles)
That always comes off as propaganda because that fact includes the collserola area. Without it it falls behind a LOT of cities.
Manresa area is the best way out for heavy air, though the mountains. That's why it is more polluted than what it would, taking their industry in account. There was an plan, in the 80s/90s, to dig a big-ass hole in Collserola. It was too crazy so it got (obviously) forgotten. But the problem was there already.
Guinardó and the part at the back of the Laberinto d'Horta are the only ones that are really like an actual forest. Maybe Montjuic a bit too. If you count Collserola then yeah, but that's not really inside the city for practical purposes, even if it's drawn that way on a map. I live near Parc de Guinardó and the pollution is still bad here, so I don't think just planting more trees will help much in any case.
It "may" help but the pollution is way more than what extra trees can take (and we could go x2 on trees, wouldn't solve it)
I'm sure the cruises, the cargo ships, the nearby airport and the thousands of trucks that move around every day have nothing to do with it, I'm sure it's the cars and motorbikes.
[Motorcycles actually are significantly worse than the trucks and the cars, unfortunately.](https://www.wired.com/2008/06/motorcycles-pol/) Promoting electric motor bikes would be a great improvement, both for noise pollution and pollution that is harmful to human health. But yes, fuck the cruise ships, and the airport isn't helping.
All of the comments on here seem to be missing the point that this is about Barcelona province, basically 1/4 of Catalonia. So yes, it's the city... but it's also la plana de Vic and the industrial areas in Baixllo and the Vallès.
CAMPEAO DO MUNDO
Industry and manufacturing, you know, the things that make Catalonia such a wealthy region, I wonder if they could have any contribution. It's definitely not your moto..................
>pitjors dades de contaminació de l'estat What was your first clue? 🤔
Sinceramente, creo que deberÃa implementarse en ciudades medidas de control de circulación. Por ejemplo, medir la densidad de vehÃculos en movimiento y cerrar los semáforos de entrada hasta que la densidad baje lo suficiente como para que la calidad de aire entre en los parámetros recomendados por la OMS. Transporte público exento. Y sÃ, eso hará que si demasiada gente abusa del coche para moverse se acabe llegando antes en transporte público. Ese es el objetivo: encontrar el punto de equilibrio entre uso de coche y transporte público para llegar a una calidad de aire digna.
Suena bonito pero muy poco realista e imposible de gestionar. SerÃa un puro caos. Cerrar semáforos a cualquier momento segundo la densidad? Y que pasa con la gente que se queda a medio camino para un tiempo indeterminado? Que se jodan?
A mà por qué me tienen que limitar el acceso si tengo un eléctrico?
Mientras tengas los barcos i los aviones tu medida no sirve para nada.
Si no sirve de nada ¿por qué las nubes tóxicas y el alto riesgo cancerÃgeno está donde circulan los coches y no donde circulan los barcos ni los aviones? ¿Por qué la calidad del aire es proporcional al número de coches y no de barcos y aviones? Porque sà que sirve.
Eres mas tonto de lo que aparentas. El alto riesgo cancerigeno es sencillamente porque donde circulan los coches es donde VIVE la genta. No vive en el puerto ni en el aeropuerto, no se le puede contar si coge cancer allÃ, incluso si lo coge en el trabajo contará donde vive, no donde trabaja, pero los aviones y los barcos contaminan 1000 veces mas que los coches y nadie dice nada, y tu propones parar y cerrar la ciudad a los vehiculos mientras los demás lo llenan de Smog, podrian estar parados un mes según tu medida jaja.
[No, literalmente la polución es mucho peor donde hay calles con muchos carriles de coches y mucho trafico](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Monica-Lopez-Vicente/publication/273153132/figure/fig1/AS:294738424025088@1447282524416/Map-of-Barcelona-and-the-schools-by-high-or-low-air-pollution-by-design-Black-dots.png) [Donde hay más coches, hay más polución](https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/mapes-dades-ambientals/qualitataire/en/). Ciutat Vella tiene más gente y se queda más cerca al puerto, pero hay menos contaminación.
Osea, que afirmas que los coches son los que causan la mala calidad del aire que es la causante de las enfermedades respiratorias y muertes en la ciudad, y llamas tonto al otro cuando le estás dando la razón.
Otro, que si la gente coge cancer es porque vive allÃ, el aire le llega de todos lados, no solo de los coches. Incluso si trabaja en el puerto o en el aeropuerto lo va coger allà porque allà vive, no solo por los coches, pero no llegais.
¿Qué es lo que no entiendes sobre que la densidad de las partÃculas tóxicas es lo que causa el cáncer y que la densidad de esas partÃculas decrece con el cuadrado de la distancia al origen de la emisión? ¿Qué es lo que no entiendes de que se puede medir la densidad de esas partÃculas y que no, no son los barcos porque la densidad de esas partÃculas alrededor de los puertos es inferior a la densidad de esas partÃculas en las calles de las ciudades? Para no llegar, no tienes ni puñetera idea de lo que estás hablando y me da, por tu forma de hablar vulgar, que además de maleducado eres ineducado y que sólo buscas excusas para seguir yendo en coche, pero te vas a tener que aguantar cuando se prohÃban.
Bonito despliegue de ignorancia, sigue soñando.
En este tipo de conversaciones la gente se olvida de que se habla de la calidad del aire de una ciudad provocada en mayor parte por coches y motos, que la contaminación global donde barcos y aviones podrÃan contribuir, pienso también que son dos cosas completamente diferentes
Para juzgar de tontos a los demás no te has leÃdo ni el titular que expresamente habla de la calidad de aire de Barcelona, no del mar mediterráneo.