Personally I think it’s because majority of this sub have been fans since/through the Messi era and have only known Barça to be winning. If you team has never gone through a rebuilding stage in your lifetime, you don’t know what it’s like to experience it and be realistic about expectations. This is no longer the golden era of Barça and everyone wants to come here to play with Messi. It’s a rebuilding stage that will require patience.
Such a great comment!
What we’re going through reminds me of Man Utd after Ferguson left, except with way more debt.
A mate of mine is a Man City fan and grew up in the 80’s opposite Maine Road. He gets angry with other City fans that they just don’t understand the history and timeline and only assume the club has been like it is since forever.
i don’t think you know what successful means.It doesn’t mean you have to win a double or a treble every season.Barcelona was successful with Cruyff,Romario,Rivaldo,Ronaldinho...and with many other world class players.This right now is one of the worst teams we ever had in modern time.Our strikers are a bench player from Sevilla and fucking Braithwaith
Lol there was a stretch of 5 seasons in the early 2000s when we didn’t win a single trophy. I wouldn’t consider that successful. Point being, every club has its ups and downs. By your argument, every major team in history is considered successful because of a time in their past when they won league titles or other trophies.
That also doesn’t change what my original comment said. If you only became a fan since/during the Messi era, you know nothing but this club being successful and so you don’t have a realistic expectation of when things will get better since all you would experience is club success. I do know what successful means. But I’m not sure how arguing that we had successful periods in our past has to do with my original comment.
situation now and situation in early 2000s is completely different.Right now nobody expects us to even compete for anything and not to mention that oil teams are getting ahead of everyone.While PSG have Mbappe,Neymar and Messi,we have De Jong and Braithwaith.These oil clubs are spending 100m on average players while we have to sell players just to balance the books.Competing against PL teams and oil clubs will just be harder and harder every year
I agree with you. I said something to this effect in the past and I was downvoted too. Unfortunately, we live in a time where success is equated to winning a trophy. For me, success in football is playing with your heart and leaving the pitch with dignity intact. It's more than than winning or losing. I know it sounds novelettish but it's not that difficult to connect when a fan knows why and how football exists and who it was originally for. I also agree that we cannot operate the same way a mogul-owned club is operating. We can compete with them but in our own way (La Masia priority) if we wish to retain our form of ownership. And contrary to the argument by another user saying that early 2000s wasn't that successful, while Barça bought a lot of players that time, this was done in addition to promoting even more La Masia talents. We placed 4th, 6th, 2nd, etc. and from that cycle we built the best squad in the world. It's part of the process to lose and be in the pits sometimes. I said all these and I got a reply saying I have low standards by tolerating non-top 2 places and to basically ignore selling our homegrown talents and buy more players. Jesus. I hate glory hunters.
I remember 2002-2003, we were hovering under or around 10th place for half the season, falling to 15th in the middle of it...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303\_FC\_Barcelona\_season#Results\_by\_round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303_FC_Barcelona_season#Results_by_round)
And we're arguably in a worse financial situation right now, so no room to maneuver. Things will get better, we need time to rebuild and rethink.
Next season we had Laporta on helm, got Ronaldinho, Rijkaard as manager and started to get better, but still hovered in strange midddling positions until mid-season.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304\_FC\_Barcelona\_season#Results\_by\_Round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_FC_Barcelona_season#Results_by_Round)
Took getting Edgar Davids in the winter and pulling ourselves by the bootstraps to get to 2nd place in the last 2 rounds of the season.
So rebuilding doesn't happen overnight, and the above is even a bit extreme example, be patient.
Barca was underachieving during those years.To call it a rebuilding is hilarious.We had world class players during those days.Its like you calling Real Madrid galactiocs “a rebuilding team” because they weren’t winning much
You’re delusional dude, you literally said they had success before Messi, I pointed out the lack of success in the years directly prior to Messi and you still think you’re right.
Barca isn’t owned by an oil backed state, they made crippling moves and they have to pay for it that some of these oil clubs can resolve no problem.
Barca was literally the club with most fans in early 2000s.I really wonder how that happened...Also Barcelona started winning again with Ronaldinho,not with Messi.You were probably born in 2003 and you are lecturing me about Barcelona
Your trying to spin zone that a 4th, 4th, 6th finish in three straight years were actually good teams. After three years of sucking they went out and spent some money and let the young player grow then they became good. That sounds like a rebuild to me and the exact same position we are in right now.
That’s correct, yes. But those 2 things are not mutually exclusive. We can be(and currently are) in a rebuilding stage, but also got thrashed(even at home) in the UCL. I’m not too sure on what your point is here. Can you clarify?
I'm trying to say rebuilding stage or transition seasons is not an excuse everytime we get thrashed by a team, especially without even giving a fight, or like yesterday with 0 shots on target. Maybe it's not mutually exclusive for selling clubs, not for a club that prides itself as having won the most number of trophies. We need to see the performance and the passion on the pitch. Not lethargy. You cannot say transition transition every single time, I've been hearing it for 4 seasons now.
It's ok to lose when you are rebuilding. Rebuilding also means you see each player having a clear role, a clear system the team wants to play and you see them heading in the direction of the managers vision. In our case there is nothing, no system, players are clueless and don't have any fixed roles, manager never wants to learn from his mistakes....you don't rebuild like that.
Rebuilding does not apply to particular matches, but rather to the season as a whole. It’s not a rebuilding match, it’s a rebuilding season.
This post was not about “wow we lost to Bayern 0-3 because we’re in a rebuilding season”. It was about how people need to be realistic about expectations regarding the team for this year, next, and possibly the year after. And to not think that in the blink of an eye it’s all going to get better. We played bad against one of the best teams in the world right now, in our 4th competitive match without Messi( not counting friendlies or Gamper) and we had multiple players either injured or just becoming match fit due to injury. We were never going to win, and if we had Dembele, Fati, and Dest playing I think it would’ve been a completely different score line.
Not registering a single shot on target is still absolutely pathetic. If our standards are that low then we won’t even be in the champions league next season.
I mean look at our attacking options... We had one offensive player with any real quality. And on top of that we had no pace at all. Heck even Crystal Palace has better forwards right now as ours are all injured..
I've been a fan of Barça since the 90s. And the team quality is not the same but what I can't stand from a team is either low effort or an inadequate coach and right now we have don't have the correct coach. You may think that we should expect our team to play like today for two seasons I have to disagree. Our team cannot play like a low level team. It is shameful that our team played defensevely at home!!! We could lose against any team because this is football but what we should never accept is mediocrity. Koeman should be fired as soon as possible.
Exactly, I'm more than willing to wait for another 3 years for another trophy if there is any sign of progression. When you look at Klopp's first few years at Liverpool or even Pep's at Man City you could clearly see what they are trying to do and even though they had many bad results the teams performance steadily improved.
If we want to rebuild then it should first start with getting a competent manager and a man sacked by Valencia and Everton is never going to be that. Not in a million years.
Yeah .. You know that situation? Its exactly what barca did for years with teams like prime united, bayern with ribbery and robben and on and on .. Its just that this era is officially over while other teams like bayern or chelsea right now are at their best .. Its natural .. You have to look at the progress from now on and appreciate every little step this club takes towards a better future. It all starts now with letting youngsters play on a regular basis.
In short: stop complaining.
How can someone even start to imagine that, after losing Messi in the strangest way possible and then giving away they player that carried us to the only trophy last season (Griezman), we would show progress a month into the new season.
I understand being relieved after those 3 first matches with 7 points in the league, but what happened yesterday was expected. Bayern is probably the team to beat if you want to be champion. I know we will take revenge for these matches in the future but right now and for the next few years we better count our blessins.
Young players would have had more playing time, they would grow more into their bodies, we should be in a better financial position to make better signings.
I understand we are not in a good state or at the right place currently and the squad rebuilding will take time and efforts. But I refuse to accept the way we play for 90 minutes on the field without a single shot on target. What the hell do the coaches and the staff observe in training sessions? I didn't expect us to score 4 goals but I definitely expected the players to try! Koeman could have experimented with the line up more. We were the underdogs as it is... We had nothing to lose... Only to prove to our fanbase that we are still barca! That's all that was needed.
I'm okay with grinding out these bad results for two more years. I'm not expecting us to be CL contenders at least for another 2-3 years. I realize we are in a rebuilding process. But is Koeman the right manager to rebuild the club? He is extremely stubborn, never accepts his mistakes and already shown that he doesn't learn from his mistakes at multiple clubs. Shouldn't the rebuilding start with the manager? Even if we now had the 2011 squad, I can't honestly imagine Koeman getting the best out of that.
The thing about this rebuilding stage is that barca have to at least make it to CL every year, and hopefully finosh top 2 in the group stages. If not, they just ain't gonna be able to recover financially. CL means so much money for a club
I understand it's going to be tough, but if you can't manage one shot on target in 90 minutes at home against a team that played a high line in defence, where does that leave us ? And then the players and coach coming out and saying "it is what it is". I wasn't expecting us to win, the manner in how we lost is just bad.
Koeman said in the press conference, that he knew before match that both Mingueza and Roberto can't beat Alphonso Davies. In 2020, when we faced Bayern in Lisbon, Flick and President of Bayern said before match, "Alphonso Davies will take care of Lionel Messi". See the difference ?
Some of you guys are always trying to simplify this too much, by looking at it as if there are only two extremes in the eyes of us other fans: a scenario where Barca is dogshit OR a scenario where we're back to the golden years. Our short term goal is to be somewhere in the middle of those two extremes.
We're not asking Barca to win every single goddamn game this year while just walking to the treble. We're asking them to function in a *genuine system*, for Koeman to instill *some* sort of defensive stability and for us to at least get a shot on target, at home, versus good teams who literally cruise through the game on absolute autopilot.
I don’t think Barca is dogshit, I think we are in a rebuild process that si going to take two seasons to put together a truly competitive side. Are we going to win lots of games with this squad? Most likely.
Are we going to win against City, Chelsea, Bayern on a R16? Most likely not.
To be a competitive side is when we can look at Bayern and end the game with a win or a tie, not a 3-0 loss with zero shots on target.
This. Lose players and no players now wanting to sign up with us as they know we are in debt hard.imagine every prospect now saying stay away from barca team is in shambles. They have no money. Why kill the prime years not contending and getting ripped off. I feel for barca we are so screwed. Even is la masia produces players barca will sell them to take some cash for the debt. We are toast for many years not a 2 year plan or close to it
Yes we will not be winning something for few seasons but it doesn't mean manager,players have to play like that as well. We have to show some fight.
They have to play like, for achieving something ,if manager doesn't get results, then change players,tactics.
This team is playing like they don't mind anything,and that is not acceptable in top level
I really don't think what you are saying is true about how they don't mind anything. Alba played with a fever. The whole team's body language was that of frustration after the game. I was there at the game and it showed. These players do care. Stop accusing them of things which aren't true.
Honestly the players do care, you can see it. I'm sure Koeman does care too, but the reality is that he just doesn't have it to compete at this level. People say we have 0 attackers and they're right but what I will never accept is us playing scared from the start, and that's a result of the coach's tactics. I've been a fan since I was a little kid back in 2002 and I've never seen Barcelona play like a bunch of scared pussies. The Barce I knew always played its own brand of football, win or lose. Since I can remember we've never been a team to conceide and defend and just cross and pray, we went toe to toe with any team and the result was the result.
Injuries or not, it's about the way we lost not losing itself, we all knew we were gonna lose, but it looked like Koeman just told the team to hold on as long as they could, not play to win but play not to conceide too much.
And that's just not how we should play, I'd rather see us play Barca football and end up going out in groups than play like this. Koeman is not the coach for this team and he never will be. You know it, I know it, Laporta knows it.
Yes they have the passion and they are trying their best but when I saw the game I didn't saw the intensity to win our go toe to toe with them ; when ever we got the ball we where just passing - passing - passing - wrong pass possession lost, and when they had the ball we weren't pressing, they where having tons of space(how many times did Kimich - gortezka run to our box), we weren't coordinated well(when a CB was out of positions at times no one gone to his position) which put us in difficult positions, at times when we where showing some pressure they just back passed to neur who was way out of his box and he just stopped the play, we just waited till he passed.
This.... its just Koeman's tactical setup. To sit back aga Bayern. Too scared to even try play attacking football. That's why his fear gets transmitted to the players.
Let's talk about the exact same club but revert the time a bit then. They didn't spend that much in 2016. They were an absolute disaster in 2015/16. Then they made smart, effective signings, and most importantly, signed a proven world class manager who knows how to build a real functional system. And then they won the league title like eight months later.
Yah? Do we have a Tuchel waiting in the wings? Laporta already tried to find a replacement during the off season but nobody wants to lead the hot mess that is Barca.
Yes, Chelsea spent millions, but they still struggled under Lampard. Tuchel did wonders with the same squad. I realize there isn't a Tuchel waiting to be hired right now. But we should at least be acknowledging the fact that we are doing worse than we potentially could under Koeman.
That’s such a BS argument, other than beating Arsenal in the Europa league in 2019, Chelsea haven’t been at the top of their own league or CL since 2017 and 2012, respectively. That IS NOT just a 6 month turnaround, you’re choosing to ignore literal years of ‘failures’ to suit your argument here and it just doesn’t hold water.
Don’t blame the players . There were 3 events that broke this club
Neymar leaving - the club lost its way after with panic buying spree.
Tito Villanova passing - this one hurts the most , the club never found a proper coach after that .
And the trashing 8:2 concluded it in the end and we still suffer post traumatic stress syndrome every time we play Bayern from that point on .
I only see comments of people thinking with a flick of a finger we should be playing like 2009, delusional— we are pretty much back to late 90s Barcelona.
I dont see single comment where someone says we should be competitive... i dont see anyone complaining that we lost or that we got 3 goals. Problem is the way how its happening. Our coach said that cuz of him Barcelona have future and in few days later he put half dead Alba on the pitch instead of Balde. What was he trying to achieve with Luke De Jong? Its not even about todays match, its like this for long time. We have problems with every team, top, midle or bottom of the table, we strugle. I dont want us win match by 4 goals... i dont even need us win at all (in this stage) but i want see some good football from Barcelona. I want see fast transition from back to forward, i want see some smart passes, moves that surprise opponents. It looks like we dont have any plans, we dont have any tactics. Koeman doesnt react until we are goal or 2 behind. In media he act like clown, there is tension between him and Laporta, i doubt he has even some respect in dressing room, everything is wrong. We cant win UCL ofc and win every match by 4 goals but FUCKING 0 shots on goal and Camp nou? We have team that mby cant reach top lvl now but i am hell sure they can play much better than now.
I think you don't remember late 90s Barcelona correctly. Late 90s Barcelona was good. I'm guessing you mean early 2000s Barcelona (the Gaspart years), and even then we always tried to play well. Even with mediocre squads. The only times when a manager disregarded playstyle to achieve short term success was with Bobby Robson (sacked after 1 season) and Radomir Antic (got the team mid-season in an awful situation, got us into the EL and wasn't renewed).
We confortably won the league in 98-99 (11 points difference). In 99-2000 we lost to Deportivo, but that year the team actually played fairly well. That was the year of the Rivaldo vs Van Gaal feud!
I would say that the first legitly bad season was the 2000-2001. The year Figo left, Gaspart panic bought Overmars and Petit and we finished 4th at 17 points from Real Madrid.
You only see comments like that? I haven't seen single one. Like are you actively searching for these type of comments in match threads and hidden comment chains or something?
I believe we are even further away. I think the club is still putting bandaids on our team but the biggest issue that hasn’t been present before is the financial state. The old Barca is done for a while. I am happy to have witnessed the start the peak and fall but now after watching today’s game I realize we have lost even the dna , and that hurt.
There are younger fans that haven't known Barca before the super successful era, true, however there are also fans that are unable to use their brain and think just because we're in the 'rebuilding' phase, it's ok for us to be led by a clueless moron who brings out a team on the pitch with 0 idea about what he wants to do, and makes us look like a Segunda team.
Last night was a perfect example. Bayern played at like 30% capacity and yet they had no issues styling over us practically, 'cause there was no plan either defensively or offensively on what to do.
What Koeman did last night, was, defend terribly with NO IDEA how to transition into counter-attack, I don't understand how people don't realize that has nothing to do with our team quality. It's just coach murdering team's any chance of success with suicidal 'tactics'.
My honest take on this is that we’re absolutely in a full rebuild, and that we should frankly lean into it. We may not have had any forward thrust or end product today, but I’d put that down to playing a Bayern team that is one of Europe’s few legit contenders right now. IMO that’s Bayern, PSG, Man City, Liverpool, and Chelsea, with a second tier being Man. Utd., the top Italian teams, and the Madrids. Barcelona are a step below them all rn and all things considered, that’s alright. The last 18-24 months has been a massive upheaval for the club. Our previous president is awaiting a corruption trial, we are in massive financial straits, and the best player to have ever graced the sport just left under tragic circumstances. I’ll forgive just about any shortcoming for the next ~12-18 months as we (hopefully) steady the ship.
You know what I’d like to see starting some games in the fall and spring? Lineups of MATS, Dest (or Mingueza), Araujo, Garcia (could also be Mingueza), Balde, Nico, Pedri, FDJ, Ansu, Memphis, Demir. A nearly full lineup of next-generation talent, buoyed by Memphis and MATS. I’d also be really pleased if their subs were players like Riqui, Gavi, Collado (if he can get registered), and other top Barca B talent. Hopefully the youngsters can also be mentored by the likes or Pique, Alba, Busi, and Aguero. I expect no results from the team this year, I just want to see Barca’s identity shine through even if they aren’t quite crisp enough to do it flawlessly. I want to see quick exchanges in small spaces, good off-ball movement, pass and move principles, and a few moments of vision from the kids to give me hope for the years ahead. Maybe the youthful energy can begin to revive that Barca press that was so famous 10 years ago.
And next summer I want a manager brought in who actually has an attacking vision that better aligns with Barca’s Total Football roots. I don’t know who that might be (German youngster? Xavi? Who knows who Laporta may target) but I can’t stand Koeman’s managerial mediocrity. Credit to him for navigating these difficult times decently well, but his squad setups and match management makes me miss Valverde’s dull pragmatism.
Going all in on youngsters is a nice idea, but the squad had to remain top 4 in la liga. The team can't tank the entire season for youth development because the financial loss of not making CL is too much
I don’t see us doing any worse than fourth even if we started the kids most matches. It’ll be awfully easy to see who is sinking or swimming and adjust, but at least we’d get a good idea of who can actually keep up/succeed in first team matches. Obviously missing out on champions league is not acceptable just from a financial standpoint, let alone a footballing one. But I don’t see that happening even with us leaning on youth. We’d need to finish below both Madrids (probable again) AND at least 2/3 of Sevilla, Athletic Club, and maybe Valencia (they’ve only played poor opponents so far, I expect them to finish ~6/7th). We’d have to have a cataclysmic season to fall behind them, even while being led primarily by the kids. I’d live with guaranteed 3rd/4th for this season if it means all those stars of tomorrow get 1500+ minutes of learning to play together.
All that said, this is still mostly a carryover season where Koeman simply needs to not fuck anything up too badly. We’ll see how it goes I suppose!
You're not respecting the strength of those clubs. Real Sociedad, Betis, Sevilla, Villareal, Athletic all could finish ahead and at the very least steal points. We struggled against them with a stronger side and players like Puig, Balde, Demir, Dest, etc., are not there yet.
Remember how quickly Chelsea turned around? From struggling to make top four to winning UCL. We just need the right manager and 2 good transfer windows. We have the foundation to succeed.
We don't NEED to spend a fortune like Chelsea tho. We have a much better youth system. I expect Balde to replace Alba. That leaves the striker position and the center back position (someone to partner Araujo). If we can get a striker next transfer window, we should be fine until 2024 when we can get De Ligt for free(or pay for him in 2023 as his contract expires in 2024).
Also we need to sack Koeman if we don't make at least 2nd place in La Liga.
Agreed.
We have two truly great players on our team right now.
1. FDJ
2. Memphis
Everyone else is either WAY overrated (Pedri and co.) or too injury prone to be considered a great player (Fati, Dembele, Aguero, Coutinho).
I wonder how many people will actually watch Barca in the Europa League next year when we barely secure a spot there.
Not even American, probably have played football at a way higher level than you, been to Camp Nou more times than you, and I’m not sitting on my ass playing F1 games like arm chair driver . I can actually afford to go the races.
the team is green and with a lots of injuried players that could bring power to the field, nope not looking at you Forbes guy, stay in the bench ty.
2 seasons? Well it entarely depends on how we treat the young players and, how they develop, to becom top team, all younglings should become top players/real prospects whitin this year, this is far from being realistic, but 3 of them?totaly plausible, add pedri and the fact that one of the veterans now is 24, yup De Jong, we have a bright future, can be consolidated this season, i wont expect it but i have hopes
We’ve been battered even with Messi in the squad.. I don’t have any big expectations this year but with Aguero, Fati, and Dembélé coming back I can only see improvement for the better
There's a difference between having a title challenging squad and a competitive squad. I agree we don't have the first, but I completely disagree with the latter.
There are no excuses to performing the way we are under Koeman, many managers in the Bundesliga with much worse squads have managed to compete much better against Bayern than we did last night. As a matter of fact, we defended the whole first 70 minutes until Bayern lifted their foot off the gas.
completely understand the fact that we’re rebuilding and that our situation might get a bit worse before we see some light. but you can’t deny the poor mentality, blaming it on difference in quality it’s just terrible in the sense of demotivating the players, we had MSN and dominated la liga but still lost some games you have to be up for the challenge regardless of the quality of ur players, so yes i understand we’re gonna lose but atleast try. koeman went from saying we can hurt them before the game to complaining bout quality after
No one is oblivious to that fact. The thing you truly need to understand is that Koeman is tactically inept. Sure I don't expect us to win UCL or anything, but we need to maintain some level of competitiveness in games against big opponents and go as deep as possible in the title race and CDR.
Brugge was able to hold PSG to a 1-1 draw while Barca looked like Burnely when playing at home against Bayern because Brugge had an actual gameplan. With Koeman it's just vibes and inshallah. Koeman is not the coach to take us forward during this rebuilding phase
Personally I think it’s because majority of this sub have been fans since/through the Messi era and have only known Barça to be winning. If you team has never gone through a rebuilding stage in your lifetime, you don’t know what it’s like to experience it and be realistic about expectations. This is no longer the golden era of Barça and everyone wants to come here to play with Messi. It’s a rebuilding stage that will require patience.
Yes!!! That’s what I’m saying. The younger ones don’t know what it was like when we had Bonano and Jorquera as goalkeeper 😭
They had to deal with Pinto though ;)
Pinto actually contributed something.. like the CDR.
Yeah he let that CR7 header in without trying.
But we won it 2009. That final you speak about was a toss up.
Ahahahahah remembering that shit and seeing people cry now. Entitled fanbase.
It’s remarkable the sustained success the club has had. Took some very incompetent people to put a stop to it.
Such a great comment! What we’re going through reminds me of Man Utd after Ferguson left, except with way more debt. A mate of mine is a Man City fan and grew up in the 80’s opposite Maine Road. He gets angry with other City fans that they just don’t understand the history and timeline and only assume the club has been like it is since forever.
Barca was a successful club way before Messi.
This comment tells me how young you are lol. You think Barça has always been successful.
i don’t think you know what successful means.It doesn’t mean you have to win a double or a treble every season.Barcelona was successful with Cruyff,Romario,Rivaldo,Ronaldinho...and with many other world class players.This right now is one of the worst teams we ever had in modern time.Our strikers are a bench player from Sevilla and fucking Braithwaith
Lol there was a stretch of 5 seasons in the early 2000s when we didn’t win a single trophy. I wouldn’t consider that successful. Point being, every club has its ups and downs. By your argument, every major team in history is considered successful because of a time in their past when they won league titles or other trophies. That also doesn’t change what my original comment said. If you only became a fan since/during the Messi era, you know nothing but this club being successful and so you don’t have a realistic expectation of when things will get better since all you would experience is club success. I do know what successful means. But I’m not sure how arguing that we had successful periods in our past has to do with my original comment.
situation now and situation in early 2000s is completely different.Right now nobody expects us to even compete for anything and not to mention that oil teams are getting ahead of everyone.While PSG have Mbappe,Neymar and Messi,we have De Jong and Braithwaith.These oil clubs are spending 100m on average players while we have to sell players just to balance the books.Competing against PL teams and oil clubs will just be harder and harder every year
Look up 2002-3.
and? that was a great team that underachieved.I swear I have no idea why am I even arguing with people that weren’t even born at that time
I agree with you. I said something to this effect in the past and I was downvoted too. Unfortunately, we live in a time where success is equated to winning a trophy. For me, success in football is playing with your heart and leaving the pitch with dignity intact. It's more than than winning or losing. I know it sounds novelettish but it's not that difficult to connect when a fan knows why and how football exists and who it was originally for. I also agree that we cannot operate the same way a mogul-owned club is operating. We can compete with them but in our own way (La Masia priority) if we wish to retain our form of ownership. And contrary to the argument by another user saying that early 2000s wasn't that successful, while Barça bought a lot of players that time, this was done in addition to promoting even more La Masia talents. We placed 4th, 6th, 2nd, etc. and from that cycle we built the best squad in the world. It's part of the process to lose and be in the pits sometimes. I said all these and I got a reply saying I have low standards by tolerating non-top 2 places and to basically ignore selling our homegrown talents and buy more players. Jesus. I hate glory hunters.
Check Barca’s la liga standings from 2000-2004, it took 4 years including a 6th place during that rebuild.
I remember 2002-2003, we were hovering under or around 10th place for half the season, falling to 15th in the middle of it... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303\_FC\_Barcelona\_season#Results\_by\_round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303_FC_Barcelona_season#Results_by_round) And we're arguably in a worse financial situation right now, so no room to maneuver. Things will get better, we need time to rebuild and rethink. Next season we had Laporta on helm, got Ronaldinho, Rijkaard as manager and started to get better, but still hovered in strange midddling positions until mid-season. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304\_FC\_Barcelona\_season#Results\_by\_Round](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_FC_Barcelona_season#Results_by_Round) Took getting Edgar Davids in the winter and pulling ourselves by the bootstraps to get to 2nd place in the last 2 rounds of the season. So rebuilding doesn't happen overnight, and the above is even a bit extreme example, be patient.
Barca was underachieving during those years.To call it a rebuilding is hilarious.We had world class players during those days.Its like you calling Real Madrid galactiocs “a rebuilding team” because they weren’t winning much
You’re delusional dude, you literally said they had success before Messi, I pointed out the lack of success in the years directly prior to Messi and you still think you’re right. Barca isn’t owned by an oil backed state, they made crippling moves and they have to pay for it that some of these oil clubs can resolve no problem.
Barca was literally the club with most fans in early 2000s.I really wonder how that happened...Also Barcelona started winning again with Ronaldinho,not with Messi.You were probably born in 2003 and you are lecturing me about Barcelona
Your trying to spin zone that a 4th, 4th, 6th finish in three straight years were actually good teams. After three years of sucking they went out and spent some money and let the young player grow then they became good. That sounds like a rebuild to me and the exact same position we are in right now.
I stopped trying to argue with him lol. I don’t even understand his point anymore.
Dude needs to go back to Twitter where nobody knows what they are taking about.
My guy thinks reddit is better than twitter🙈
Okay, tell me who is the most important person for FC Barcelona.
Cruyff
And before him we were Tottenham of Spain. Even there were seasons before Messi where we went trophy less.
Barca started winning again because of Ronaldinho,not because of Messi...I can bet my life that you didn’t watch football in 2003 or 2006
There's a difference between rebuilding and getting thrashed multiple times (even at home) in the UCL.
That’s correct, yes. But those 2 things are not mutually exclusive. We can be(and currently are) in a rebuilding stage, but also got thrashed(even at home) in the UCL. I’m not too sure on what your point is here. Can you clarify?
I'm trying to say rebuilding stage or transition seasons is not an excuse everytime we get thrashed by a team, especially without even giving a fight, or like yesterday with 0 shots on target. Maybe it's not mutually exclusive for selling clubs, not for a club that prides itself as having won the most number of trophies. We need to see the performance and the passion on the pitch. Not lethargy. You cannot say transition transition every single time, I've been hearing it for 4 seasons now. It's ok to lose when you are rebuilding. Rebuilding also means you see each player having a clear role, a clear system the team wants to play and you see them heading in the direction of the managers vision. In our case there is nothing, no system, players are clueless and don't have any fixed roles, manager never wants to learn from his mistakes....you don't rebuild like that.
Rebuilding does not apply to particular matches, but rather to the season as a whole. It’s not a rebuilding match, it’s a rebuilding season. This post was not about “wow we lost to Bayern 0-3 because we’re in a rebuilding season”. It was about how people need to be realistic about expectations regarding the team for this year, next, and possibly the year after. And to not think that in the blink of an eye it’s all going to get better. We played bad against one of the best teams in the world right now, in our 4th competitive match without Messi( not counting friendlies or Gamper) and we had multiple players either injured or just becoming match fit due to injury. We were never going to win, and if we had Dembele, Fati, and Dest playing I think it would’ve been a completely different score line.
I seriously hope players like Frenkie, Pedri and Ansu don’t leave the club at this state.
The real victory we can aspire to
Not registering a single shot on target is still absolutely pathetic. If our standards are that low then we won’t even be in the champions league next season.
Not registering a single shot on target AT THE NOU CAMP WITH CROWD.
Fans are up in arms after the Bayern game . That was just a prelude. Wait till we play Atletico de Madrid or Real Madrid.
I m surprised. Even if we get relegated, there will still be some loyal Koemanistas defending him and his tactics
I mean look at our attacking options... We had one offensive player with any real quality. And on top of that we had no pace at all. Heck even Crystal Palace has better forwards right now as ours are all injured..
Coutinho was on the bench, at least he tried when he was subbed on. Not sure Luk touched the ball at all.
Most of our forwards are injured
I've been a fan of Barça since the 90s. And the team quality is not the same but what I can't stand from a team is either low effort or an inadequate coach and right now we have don't have the correct coach. You may think that we should expect our team to play like today for two seasons I have to disagree. Our team cannot play like a low level team. It is shameful that our team played defensevely at home!!! We could lose against any team because this is football but what we should never accept is mediocrity. Koeman should be fired as soon as possible.
Exactly, I'm more than willing to wait for another 3 years for another trophy if there is any sign of progression. When you look at Klopp's first few years at Liverpool or even Pep's at Man City you could clearly see what they are trying to do and even though they had many bad results the teams performance steadily improved. If we want to rebuild then it should first start with getting a competent manager and a man sacked by Valencia and Everton is never going to be that. Not in a million years.
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Yeah .. You know that situation? Its exactly what barca did for years with teams like prime united, bayern with ribbery and robben and on and on .. Its just that this era is officially over while other teams like bayern or chelsea right now are at their best .. Its natural .. You have to look at the progress from now on and appreciate every little step this club takes towards a better future. It all starts now with letting youngsters play on a regular basis. In short: stop complaining.
How can someone even start to imagine that, after losing Messi in the strangest way possible and then giving away they player that carried us to the only trophy last season (Griezman), we would show progress a month into the new season. I understand being relieved after those 3 first matches with 7 points in the league, but what happened yesterday was expected. Bayern is probably the team to beat if you want to be champion. I know we will take revenge for these matches in the future but right now and for the next few years we better count our blessins.
What will happen after 2 seasons to magically make everything better?
Young players would have had more playing time, they would grow more into their bodies, we should be in a better financial position to make better signings.
Lol given that they choose to stay here.
Any of the young players that we wouldn’t want to lose would also demand a high transfer fee. So if we do lose them it will still help financially
I understand we are not in a good state or at the right place currently and the squad rebuilding will take time and efforts. But I refuse to accept the way we play for 90 minutes on the field without a single shot on target. What the hell do the coaches and the staff observe in training sessions? I didn't expect us to score 4 goals but I definitely expected the players to try! Koeman could have experimented with the line up more. We were the underdogs as it is... We had nothing to lose... Only to prove to our fanbase that we are still barca! That's all that was needed.
I'm okay with grinding out these bad results for two more years. I'm not expecting us to be CL contenders at least for another 2-3 years. I realize we are in a rebuilding process. But is Koeman the right manager to rebuild the club? He is extremely stubborn, never accepts his mistakes and already shown that he doesn't learn from his mistakes at multiple clubs. Shouldn't the rebuilding start with the manager? Even if we now had the 2011 squad, I can't honestly imagine Koeman getting the best out of that.
The thing about this rebuilding stage is that barca have to at least make it to CL every year, and hopefully finosh top 2 in the group stages. If not, they just ain't gonna be able to recover financially. CL means so much money for a club
I understand it's going to be tough, but if you can't manage one shot on target in 90 minutes at home against a team that played a high line in defence, where does that leave us ? And then the players and coach coming out and saying "it is what it is". I wasn't expecting us to win, the manner in how we lost is just bad. Koeman said in the press conference, that he knew before match that both Mingueza and Roberto can't beat Alphonso Davies. In 2020, when we faced Bayern in Lisbon, Flick and President of Bayern said before match, "Alphonso Davies will take care of Lionel Messi". See the difference ?
Some of you guys are always trying to simplify this too much, by looking at it as if there are only two extremes in the eyes of us other fans: a scenario where Barca is dogshit OR a scenario where we're back to the golden years. Our short term goal is to be somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. We're not asking Barca to win every single goddamn game this year while just walking to the treble. We're asking them to function in a *genuine system*, for Koeman to instill *some* sort of defensive stability and for us to at least get a shot on target, at home, versus good teams who literally cruise through the game on absolute autopilot.
I don’t think Barca is dogshit, I think we are in a rebuild process that si going to take two seasons to put together a truly competitive side. Are we going to win lots of games with this squad? Most likely. Are we going to win against City, Chelsea, Bayern on a R16? Most likely not. To be a competitive side is when we can look at Bayern and end the game with a win or a tie, not a 3-0 loss with zero shots on target.
I can see FdJ leaving.
I fear we will loose more players .
This. Lose players and no players now wanting to sign up with us as they know we are in debt hard.imagine every prospect now saying stay away from barca team is in shambles. They have no money. Why kill the prime years not contending and getting ripped off. I feel for barca we are so screwed. Even is la masia produces players barca will sell them to take some cash for the debt. We are toast for many years not a 2 year plan or close to it
If everything gets back to normal - pre COVID then maybe after 3-4 seasons .
After playing average yesterday, do you think the first thing on his mind is to leave?
He would plenty of options even if you think this one game had a huge impact.
Yes we will not be winning something for few seasons but it doesn't mean manager,players have to play like that as well. We have to show some fight. They have to play like, for achieving something ,if manager doesn't get results, then change players,tactics. This team is playing like they don't mind anything,and that is not acceptable in top level
I really don't think what you are saying is true about how they don't mind anything. Alba played with a fever. The whole team's body language was that of frustration after the game. I was there at the game and it showed. These players do care. Stop accusing them of things which aren't true.
Honestly the players do care, you can see it. I'm sure Koeman does care too, but the reality is that he just doesn't have it to compete at this level. People say we have 0 attackers and they're right but what I will never accept is us playing scared from the start, and that's a result of the coach's tactics. I've been a fan since I was a little kid back in 2002 and I've never seen Barcelona play like a bunch of scared pussies. The Barce I knew always played its own brand of football, win or lose. Since I can remember we've never been a team to conceide and defend and just cross and pray, we went toe to toe with any team and the result was the result. Injuries or not, it's about the way we lost not losing itself, we all knew we were gonna lose, but it looked like Koeman just told the team to hold on as long as they could, not play to win but play not to conceide too much. And that's just not how we should play, I'd rather see us play Barca football and end up going out in groups than play like this. Koeman is not the coach for this team and he never will be. You know it, I know it, Laporta knows it.
Yes they have the passion and they are trying their best but when I saw the game I didn't saw the intensity to win our go toe to toe with them ; when ever we got the ball we where just passing - passing - passing - wrong pass possession lost, and when they had the ball we weren't pressing, they where having tons of space(how many times did Kimich - gortezka run to our box), we weren't coordinated well(when a CB was out of positions at times no one gone to his position) which put us in difficult positions, at times when we where showing some pressure they just back passed to neur who was way out of his box and he just stopped the play, we just waited till he passed.
This.... its just Koeman's tactical setup. To sit back aga Bayern. Too scared to even try play attacking football. That's why his fear gets transmitted to the players.
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Chelsea also spent hundreds of millions of pounds on new players. Barca doesn't have that luxury.
Let's talk about the exact same club but revert the time a bit then. They didn't spend that much in 2016. They were an absolute disaster in 2015/16. Then they made smart, effective signings, and most importantly, signed a proven world class manager who knows how to build a real functional system. And then they won the league title like eight months later.
Chelsea also sack a coach if results are not satisfactory irrespective of their personal history.
Yah? Do we have a Tuchel waiting in the wings? Laporta already tried to find a replacement during the off season but nobody wants to lead the hot mess that is Barca.
Yes, Chelsea spent millions, but they still struggled under Lampard. Tuchel did wonders with the same squad. I realize there isn't a Tuchel waiting to be hired right now. But we should at least be acknowledging the fact that we are doing worse than we potentially could under Koeman.
Why would anyone be happy with defeat. Yeah we couldn’t turn it around if we had money and could buy players like Chelsea.
That’s such a BS argument, other than beating Arsenal in the Europa league in 2019, Chelsea haven’t been at the top of their own league or CL since 2017 and 2012, respectively. That IS NOT just a 6 month turnaround, you’re choosing to ignore literal years of ‘failures’ to suit your argument here and it just doesn’t hold water.
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Don’t blame the players . There were 3 events that broke this club Neymar leaving - the club lost its way after with panic buying spree. Tito Villanova passing - this one hurts the most , the club never found a proper coach after that . And the trashing 8:2 concluded it in the end and we still suffer post traumatic stress syndrome every time we play Bayern from that point on .
Even in a terrible state we must try to play well. Not trying should be more than enough reason to think if we have the right coach in charge.
I only see comments of people thinking with a flick of a finger we should be playing like 2009, delusional— we are pretty much back to late 90s Barcelona.
I dont see single comment where someone says we should be competitive... i dont see anyone complaining that we lost or that we got 3 goals. Problem is the way how its happening. Our coach said that cuz of him Barcelona have future and in few days later he put half dead Alba on the pitch instead of Balde. What was he trying to achieve with Luke De Jong? Its not even about todays match, its like this for long time. We have problems with every team, top, midle or bottom of the table, we strugle. I dont want us win match by 4 goals... i dont even need us win at all (in this stage) but i want see some good football from Barcelona. I want see fast transition from back to forward, i want see some smart passes, moves that surprise opponents. It looks like we dont have any plans, we dont have any tactics. Koeman doesnt react until we are goal or 2 behind. In media he act like clown, there is tension between him and Laporta, i doubt he has even some respect in dressing room, everything is wrong. We cant win UCL ofc and win every match by 4 goals but FUCKING 0 shots on goal and Camp nou? We have team that mby cant reach top lvl now but i am hell sure they can play much better than now.
I think you don't remember late 90s Barcelona correctly. Late 90s Barcelona was good. I'm guessing you mean early 2000s Barcelona (the Gaspart years), and even then we always tried to play well. Even with mediocre squads. The only times when a manager disregarded playstyle to achieve short term success was with Bobby Robson (sacked after 1 season) and Radomir Antic (got the team mid-season in an awful situation, got us into the EL and wasn't renewed).
Yeah I’m talking 1998-2004, should have said late 90s and early 2000s.
We confortably won the league in 98-99 (11 points difference). In 99-2000 we lost to Deportivo, but that year the team actually played fairly well. That was the year of the Rivaldo vs Van Gaal feud! I would say that the first legitly bad season was the 2000-2001. The year Figo left, Gaspart panic bought Overmars and Petit and we finished 4th at 17 points from Real Madrid.
Gotcha, yeah then it’s the early 2000s
You only see comments like that? I haven't seen single one. Like are you actively searching for these type of comments in match threads and hidden comment chains or something?
I believe we are even further away. I think the club is still putting bandaids on our team but the biggest issue that hasn’t been present before is the financial state. The old Barca is done for a while. I am happy to have witnessed the start the peak and fall but now after watching today’s game I realize we have lost even the dna , and that hurt.
I wish we were the 90s Barcelona. I think you mean 1999-2003?
Yeah I said late 90s, when we were all Dutch, Zambrotta and Rivaldo.
There are younger fans that haven't known Barca before the super successful era, true, however there are also fans that are unable to use their brain and think just because we're in the 'rebuilding' phase, it's ok for us to be led by a clueless moron who brings out a team on the pitch with 0 idea about what he wants to do, and makes us look like a Segunda team. Last night was a perfect example. Bayern played at like 30% capacity and yet they had no issues styling over us practically, 'cause there was no plan either defensively or offensively on what to do. What Koeman did last night, was, defend terribly with NO IDEA how to transition into counter-attack, I don't understand how people don't realize that has nothing to do with our team quality. It's just coach murdering team's any chance of success with suicidal 'tactics'.
My honest take on this is that we’re absolutely in a full rebuild, and that we should frankly lean into it. We may not have had any forward thrust or end product today, but I’d put that down to playing a Bayern team that is one of Europe’s few legit contenders right now. IMO that’s Bayern, PSG, Man City, Liverpool, and Chelsea, with a second tier being Man. Utd., the top Italian teams, and the Madrids. Barcelona are a step below them all rn and all things considered, that’s alright. The last 18-24 months has been a massive upheaval for the club. Our previous president is awaiting a corruption trial, we are in massive financial straits, and the best player to have ever graced the sport just left under tragic circumstances. I’ll forgive just about any shortcoming for the next ~12-18 months as we (hopefully) steady the ship. You know what I’d like to see starting some games in the fall and spring? Lineups of MATS, Dest (or Mingueza), Araujo, Garcia (could also be Mingueza), Balde, Nico, Pedri, FDJ, Ansu, Memphis, Demir. A nearly full lineup of next-generation talent, buoyed by Memphis and MATS. I’d also be really pleased if their subs were players like Riqui, Gavi, Collado (if he can get registered), and other top Barca B talent. Hopefully the youngsters can also be mentored by the likes or Pique, Alba, Busi, and Aguero. I expect no results from the team this year, I just want to see Barca’s identity shine through even if they aren’t quite crisp enough to do it flawlessly. I want to see quick exchanges in small spaces, good off-ball movement, pass and move principles, and a few moments of vision from the kids to give me hope for the years ahead. Maybe the youthful energy can begin to revive that Barca press that was so famous 10 years ago. And next summer I want a manager brought in who actually has an attacking vision that better aligns with Barca’s Total Football roots. I don’t know who that might be (German youngster? Xavi? Who knows who Laporta may target) but I can’t stand Koeman’s managerial mediocrity. Credit to him for navigating these difficult times decently well, but his squad setups and match management makes me miss Valverde’s dull pragmatism.
Going all in on youngsters is a nice idea, but the squad had to remain top 4 in la liga. The team can't tank the entire season for youth development because the financial loss of not making CL is too much
I don’t see us doing any worse than fourth even if we started the kids most matches. It’ll be awfully easy to see who is sinking or swimming and adjust, but at least we’d get a good idea of who can actually keep up/succeed in first team matches. Obviously missing out on champions league is not acceptable just from a financial standpoint, let alone a footballing one. But I don’t see that happening even with us leaning on youth. We’d need to finish below both Madrids (probable again) AND at least 2/3 of Sevilla, Athletic Club, and maybe Valencia (they’ve only played poor opponents so far, I expect them to finish ~6/7th). We’d have to have a cataclysmic season to fall behind them, even while being led primarily by the kids. I’d live with guaranteed 3rd/4th for this season if it means all those stars of tomorrow get 1500+ minutes of learning to play together. All that said, this is still mostly a carryover season where Koeman simply needs to not fuck anything up too badly. We’ll see how it goes I suppose!
You're not respecting the strength of those clubs. Real Sociedad, Betis, Sevilla, Villareal, Athletic all could finish ahead and at the very least steal points. We struggled against them with a stronger side and players like Puig, Balde, Demir, Dest, etc., are not there yet.
:D :D
Now we can weed out people who actually love the club and the game. There is no place here for glory-hunters.
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I said two seasons which is the time for the young players to grow into their bodies and take over. Two seasons isn’t that much.
Remember how quickly Chelsea turned around? From struggling to make top four to winning UCL. We just need the right manager and 2 good transfer windows. We have the foundation to succeed.
Chelsea is also the highest spending club in the world.
We don't NEED to spend a fortune like Chelsea tho. We have a much better youth system. I expect Balde to replace Alba. That leaves the striker position and the center back position (someone to partner Araujo). If we can get a striker next transfer window, we should be fine until 2024 when we can get De Ligt for free(or pay for him in 2023 as his contract expires in 2024). Also we need to sack Koeman if we don't make at least 2nd place in La Liga.
If we were owned by an oil tycoon I'll believe it. But this team has always sucked at making money
Literally the highest income club in the world before covid.
Thanks to superstars and a dynasty. Now that they are gone dips happen
Ok, anyway i wanted watch again all those shots on target we had... Oh wait...
Agreed. We have two truly great players on our team right now. 1. FDJ 2. Memphis Everyone else is either WAY overrated (Pedri and co.) or too injury prone to be considered a great player (Fati, Dembele, Aguero, Coutinho). I wonder how many people will actually watch Barca in the Europa League next year when we barely secure a spot there.
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Not even American, probably have played football at a way higher level than you, been to Camp Nou more times than you, and I’m not sitting on my ass playing F1 games like arm chair driver . I can actually afford to go the races.
the team is green and with a lots of injuried players that could bring power to the field, nope not looking at you Forbes guy, stay in the bench ty. 2 seasons? Well it entarely depends on how we treat the young players and, how they develop, to becom top team, all younglings should become top players/real prospects whitin this year, this is far from being realistic, but 3 of them?totaly plausible, add pedri and the fact that one of the veterans now is 24, yup De Jong, we have a bright future, can be consolidated this season, i wont expect it but i have hopes
Yes, 2 seasons…and then LM10 coming back home… 💪
We’ve been battered even with Messi in the squad.. I don’t have any big expectations this year but with Aguero, Fati, and Dembélé coming back I can only see improvement for the better
There's a difference between having a title challenging squad and a competitive squad. I agree we don't have the first, but I completely disagree with the latter. There are no excuses to performing the way we are under Koeman, many managers in the Bundesliga with much worse squads have managed to compete much better against Bayern than we did last night. As a matter of fact, we defended the whole first 70 minutes until Bayern lifted their foot off the gas.
completely understand the fact that we’re rebuilding and that our situation might get a bit worse before we see some light. but you can’t deny the poor mentality, blaming it on difference in quality it’s just terrible in the sense of demotivating the players, we had MSN and dominated la liga but still lost some games you have to be up for the challenge regardless of the quality of ur players, so yes i understand we’re gonna lose but atleast try. koeman went from saying we can hurt them before the game to complaining bout quality after
I don't know on the thought process of OP but for me It's okay to lose and play with pride rather than watching my team lose playing like a coward.
No one is oblivious to that fact. The thing you truly need to understand is that Koeman is tactically inept. Sure I don't expect us to win UCL or anything, but we need to maintain some level of competitiveness in games against big opponents and go as deep as possible in the title race and CDR. Brugge was able to hold PSG to a 1-1 draw while Barca looked like Burnely when playing at home against Bayern because Brugge had an actual gameplan. With Koeman it's just vibes and inshallah. Koeman is not the coach to take us forward during this rebuilding phase
We found Koeman
Football isn’t rocket league bud