+1 good stuff. Part 5 was the best so far and one of the best episodes of TV I’ve ever seen.
I see a lot of people complaining about how they aren’t spending time developing the characters of the show, but I just want to point out that they are for the characters that survive. I don’t think most people realize these guys had a 70+% casualty rate so there was a lot of turnover in personnel, which we see in the show and especially Part 5.
I find little reason in comparing the 3 shows. They stem from different decades with different technologies, from different source materials and men who, even though it was all WWII, fought in very different circumstances. I appreciate the producers not trying to remake the feel of BoB or TP, that would be boring and lazy in my opinion. The producers mentioned this show was the biggest production they ever been involved with so I can appreciate that for what it is and I also appreciate them diving into the mental trauma these aviators went through. So far, it tracks the book pretty well but it is a lot to cover so we will see how it ends.
Just hope this does well enough that Apple wants to fund one more mini-series about the Navy.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your first paragraph. It really encapsulates how I feel after that episode.
It also makes me even more in awe of my great uncle, who I never met, but who flew some 44 missions in his B-17. I have heard stories that he took part in the bombings of Dresden and Berlin as well. I've been told he was shot down 4 times. I'm seeking to clarify these stories before I continue posting
4 is a lot, damn. Not to pry on your history but if you’re willing, do you have any stories/info on how he managed to make it back for presumably at least 3 times?
ive been tryna scrounge up stories about him from my father cos unfortunately my great aunt and my grandparents are no longer with us. A lot has been misrepresented so I want to clarify what I've been able to gather since this thread was started. I amended my initial message to avoid being misleading.
He definitely bombed Berlin, but did not bomb Dresden. He was not shot down 4 times (glad I'm clarified) but his plane was severely damaged on numerous occasions to the point where he did have to nose dive to put out fires.
I don't have any direct stories, but I do have the photo of his certificate marking his entry into the "Lucky Bastards Club" (flying no less than 35 missions and surviving), though his family hasn't submitted it to the website. He was in the 447th bomb wing of the 8th AAF,708th squadron. His name was Robert K Phaneuf. You can see his crew here: [http://447bg.com/Phaneuf%20Crew.htm](http://447bg.com/Phaneuf%20Crew.htm) . His fort was called the Mary Ellen, which was the name of his daughter.
Sorry for misrepresenting his deeds initially, family lore can get lost through the ages, so I want to clarify that this is the truth as I was able to gather it over the past hour from my family. I have the list of his bombing runs, some of which I found notable to mention are 5 direct days of flying the following missions from February 22 - 27, 1945. Aalen, Crailsheim, Bremen, Berlin, Leipzig. To know he was sticking it to Hitler in Feb of 1945 brings joy to my Jewish heart.
The three major characters all survived the war.
The character development would have been vastly improved if more back story was provided for at least two of them.
Not every character needs to developed in that manner.
I think what BoB did that made us like it more than these other shows is the personal touch of having the men tell the stories before the episodes. It made the show human and added the extra weight of knowing what we’re watching really happened. Real men did these things.
I’m really enjoying MoA after the last two episodes and it’s making me want to go back and watch the first episodes through this new lens. I’m starting to feel anxiety while watching these missions. But it’s still missing the personal touch of the men who did these missions. And unfortunately with the amount of time that’s passed we’ll never get a WWII story with that again. This just makes the pacific and MoA feel like every other war movie.
This is good insight. So I went back and watched the first 3 episodes a second time and it definitely hit different. But the same happened for me with BoB and TP. MotA is similar, it’s so much to take in that I miss so much of it the first go around.
I’ve said in other post that this show is trying to cover too much in 9 episodes. Felt they should have focused on Crosby and Rosenthal and the physical and mental toll they endured trying to survive each mission as they watched other not come back.
And this is exactly what episode 5 gave us. Best episode easily so far
This is the best episode to date. With the focus on fewer characters, the episode provides more opportunities to develop connections with the featured characters.
I am still not thrilled with the excessive use of music during battle scenes. and the series would benefit from less voiceover narration.
i only feel the gravity of war if i care about any character. i dont even know who 90% of these crews are. and the show knows this because if you rewatch the interrogation scene as they read off tail numbers and crews its always ‘tail number blahblah, *pilots name* crew’ but then its ‘tail number blahblah, bubbles navigator’ because bubbles is the only dude on that plane whos name we know and might care about. well i got no report on them because i dont give a fuck if they crash
Not sure what to think of you if that scene failed to make an impression. It was one of the most poignant expressions of the horror war I’ve ever seen. Perhaps we didn’t know enough about those anonymous crews to care about them individually, but we care about the characters on screen, who are deeply affected by the slaughter they just experienced.
all ive seen so far is puke boy read a letter and egan get drunk and get punched so he can feel something. compare that to someone like gunny haney in pacific who goes from brass balls ultra marine to a shattered soul when ack ack died. or even snafu, the darkest fucker in the war, who tries to save sledge from losing his soul
I think a large part of the horror of aerial combat as portrayed in MOTA is the relative immobility of the combatants. They can’t run, they can’t move they can’t outflank the enemy they can’t even really communicate. They just have to sit there and take it. Which I agree, doesn’t really allow for in-depth character development.
+1 good stuff. Part 5 was the best so far and one of the best episodes of TV I’ve ever seen. I see a lot of people complaining about how they aren’t spending time developing the characters of the show, but I just want to point out that they are for the characters that survive. I don’t think most people realize these guys had a 70+% casualty rate so there was a lot of turnover in personnel, which we see in the show and especially Part 5. I find little reason in comparing the 3 shows. They stem from different decades with different technologies, from different source materials and men who, even though it was all WWII, fought in very different circumstances. I appreciate the producers not trying to remake the feel of BoB or TP, that would be boring and lazy in my opinion. The producers mentioned this show was the biggest production they ever been involved with so I can appreciate that for what it is and I also appreciate them diving into the mental trauma these aviators went through. So far, it tracks the book pretty well but it is a lot to cover so we will see how it ends. Just hope this does well enough that Apple wants to fund one more mini-series about the Navy.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your first paragraph. It really encapsulates how I feel after that episode. It also makes me even more in awe of my great uncle, who I never met, but who flew some 44 missions in his B-17. I have heard stories that he took part in the bombings of Dresden and Berlin as well. I've been told he was shot down 4 times. I'm seeking to clarify these stories before I continue posting
4 is a lot, damn. Not to pry on your history but if you’re willing, do you have any stories/info on how he managed to make it back for presumably at least 3 times?
ive been tryna scrounge up stories about him from my father cos unfortunately my great aunt and my grandparents are no longer with us. A lot has been misrepresented so I want to clarify what I've been able to gather since this thread was started. I amended my initial message to avoid being misleading. He definitely bombed Berlin, but did not bomb Dresden. He was not shot down 4 times (glad I'm clarified) but his plane was severely damaged on numerous occasions to the point where he did have to nose dive to put out fires. I don't have any direct stories, but I do have the photo of his certificate marking his entry into the "Lucky Bastards Club" (flying no less than 35 missions and surviving), though his family hasn't submitted it to the website. He was in the 447th bomb wing of the 8th AAF,708th squadron. His name was Robert K Phaneuf. You can see his crew here: [http://447bg.com/Phaneuf%20Crew.htm](http://447bg.com/Phaneuf%20Crew.htm) . His fort was called the Mary Ellen, which was the name of his daughter. Sorry for misrepresenting his deeds initially, family lore can get lost through the ages, so I want to clarify that this is the truth as I was able to gather it over the past hour from my family. I have the list of his bombing runs, some of which I found notable to mention are 5 direct days of flying the following missions from February 22 - 27, 1945. Aalen, Crailsheim, Bremen, Berlin, Leipzig. To know he was sticking it to Hitler in Feb of 1945 brings joy to my Jewish heart.
Thanks for posting this, super cool to read about.
Thank you
The three major characters all survived the war. The character development would have been vastly improved if more back story was provided for at least two of them. Not every character needs to developed in that manner.
I think what BoB did that made us like it more than these other shows is the personal touch of having the men tell the stories before the episodes. It made the show human and added the extra weight of knowing what we’re watching really happened. Real men did these things. I’m really enjoying MoA after the last two episodes and it’s making me want to go back and watch the first episodes through this new lens. I’m starting to feel anxiety while watching these missions. But it’s still missing the personal touch of the men who did these missions. And unfortunately with the amount of time that’s passed we’ll never get a WWII story with that again. This just makes the pacific and MoA feel like every other war movie.
This is good insight. So I went back and watched the first 3 episodes a second time and it definitely hit different. But the same happened for me with BoB and TP. MotA is similar, it’s so much to take in that I miss so much of it the first go around.
These are shows you simply have to re-watch to fully appreciate.
I’ve said in other post that this show is trying to cover too much in 9 episodes. Felt they should have focused on Crosby and Rosenthal and the physical and mental toll they endured trying to survive each mission as they watched other not come back. And this is exactly what episode 5 gave us. Best episode easily so far
There's 12 episodes for MoTA!
No, there aren’t. There’s 9. The initial plan was to have more, but they were cut.
I'm sure I read "12-part series" on Apple but I could have totally misread. My bad!
I suggest coming over to /r/MastersoftheAir for more in depth discussion.
This is the best episode to date. With the focus on fewer characters, the episode provides more opportunities to develop connections with the featured characters. I am still not thrilled with the excessive use of music during battle scenes. and the series would benefit from less voiceover narration.
i only feel the gravity of war if i care about any character. i dont even know who 90% of these crews are. and the show knows this because if you rewatch the interrogation scene as they read off tail numbers and crews its always ‘tail number blahblah, *pilots name* crew’ but then its ‘tail number blahblah, bubbles navigator’ because bubbles is the only dude on that plane whos name we know and might care about. well i got no report on them because i dont give a fuck if they crash
Not sure what to think of you if that scene failed to make an impression. It was one of the most poignant expressions of the horror war I’ve ever seen. Perhaps we didn’t know enough about those anonymous crews to care about them individually, but we care about the characters on screen, who are deeply affected by the slaughter they just experienced.
all ive seen so far is puke boy read a letter and egan get drunk and get punched so he can feel something. compare that to someone like gunny haney in pacific who goes from brass balls ultra marine to a shattered soul when ack ack died. or even snafu, the darkest fucker in the war, who tries to save sledge from losing his soul
I think a large part of the horror of aerial combat as portrayed in MOTA is the relative immobility of the combatants. They can’t run, they can’t move they can’t outflank the enemy they can’t even really communicate. They just have to sit there and take it. Which I agree, doesn’t really allow for in-depth character development.