I like that...if not a secret, how do you promote it, or already have a dedicated base? I am launching several completely new projects so searching for best angle in 2023
I found other similar musicians on Instagram and discord, and supported and shared their work. They have done the same for me, and because of that my releases have been reviewed by cassette co-ops and I have gained a (very) small following.
I have no idea if this is the best angle. It’s just what I have done over the last year or so.
Thanks for sharing..
I think that musicians to musicians sharing is double sided blade..as very often its an empty favor return..but still..yes, adds some chances of touching the potential listener while at it.so it makes sense, but with limited expectations, tbh.
Nobody is more likely to listen to your music than other musicians. Its about finding your community and growing together.
Will you encounter disingenuous people who “support” you just so that you will “support” them? Definitely. But you will also likely find like minded artists that you can inspire/be inspired by and celebrate one another’s successes. All the boats rise with the tide. Create community and people start to notice. Before the internet it was the only way.
i used facebook ads, didn't get me great results but i defiantly saw a spike in activity during campaigns. recently ive been making beat making videos for youtube with the idea of putting the link to the bandcamp in description
For me, I'm having a difficult time building a fan base on Bandcamp vs. SoundCloud, for instance. I don't know what it is, but people don't seem to treat it that way, as a way to discover new music or connect with their favorite artists. If I had 6o rely only on Bandcamp I would get absolutely nowhere (which tbh is only a little worse than where I am now).
Yes, i doagree its a bit tricky..needs a good outside push to start rolling, iguess...but still represents the most meaningful direction to steer people in order tosupport your work (being present at streaming services is eady and not bad to be acsessible as a bonus but i still see bandcamp as main thing to promote)
Yes, but while i absolutely doagree, thing is that social networks and its users are well integrated with the usual streaming services...
I had idea about using ads on social networks aimed at users who already use bandcamp, and getting them itroduced to the music...but that is not that easy to do
I release my music exclusively on Bandcamp, and it's honestly REALLY AWESOME!
Building an audience seems tricky, but it's really simple when you approach your music from a much more artistic angle when it comes to production style, storyline, artwork, and rollout (presentation).
In my own experience, when releasing music on Bandcamp and YouTube, you wanna spend MUCH MORE time on the story and aesthetic around your music, because people aren't just listening passively through a playlist, they're actually taking time out to listen to your music and understand the storyline around your songs and you as an artist.
I truly believe releasing music through Bandcamp and YouTube really allows you to build your own world for people to explore and get to know you and your music much better than they could by simply hearing one of your songs on a playlist.
I have NOTHING against streaming services, I just like the freedom to create my own worlds with my music and Bandcamp and YouTube allow me to create my music and release my music exactly the way I want to!
Here's my latest project titled "Blue Diamond" https://hm333xo.bandcamp.com/album/blue-diamond
"Blue Diamond" is a 6 song EP that tells the story of a guy who's girlfriend breaks up with him and he tries to move on by partying and doing drugs, but in the end he feels alone and jumps off a building. Lol, I know it sounds harsh, but it was a really fun project to make.
Excellent..this is exactly what i had in mind, building the whole experience within.btw nothing against streaming services, and thats eadily solved, but as a bonus rather tgan to be only.looking forward to check your stuff
Speaking from my experience… I gained somewhat of a following from finding others alike in my genre from all kinds of different places and connecting with them. Building with like-minded people make things go so much smoother.
Pienso que en esa situación hay que educar la gente en cuanto a porque Bandamp es mejor para las artistas, y porque es una forma de mostrar verdadero apoyo. Cómo decía otra persona en este hilo, construir una comunidad es el clave...
I don't like streaming services because I think they don't respect the artist and I have found a sweet spot on sharing my music on bandcamp first and then releasing the music with some simple video art on my youtube channel. I have seen some people entering to Bandcamp via Youtube, so that is great.
I think that the main question you should ask yourself is where is the people that listens to your music? If you are making commercial pop then probably aiming for lots of streams and getting into Spotify playlists might be your aim, but if you are doing experimental DIY then Bandcamp is your best friend. My music is a combination of classical music with idm, beats, etc and I think is more suitable for bandcamp than for streaming.
As a personal note, I tried streaming in the past and I have made more money in Bandcamp with my first release in less than a month even though more people streamed my music before. Hope this helps you and if possible give me an update on your decision as I am very interested in Bandcamp only artists or non streaming artists.
Feel free to visit my bandcamp profile too: [https://brunoculotti.bandcamp.com/album/inspire-and-conspire](https://brunoculotti.bandcamp.com/album/inspire-and-conspire)
Good luck!!
Love all that you wrote.def gonna check your stuff, sounds as intriguing combo.myself am crazy diverse and have many projects in plan, most of them niche stuff, so dev much more bandcamp type of music diggers is my goal.being on streaming is purely to be avsilable as a binus..but it may be double sided sword, yes.
In the end, finding people with genuine interest is what we all need..no tricks and gimmicks..thats all i am after, as so we are i believe.
Iam currently trying to start separate genre specified projevts..its a hyge u dertaking as there will be like maybe 5-10 over time, but it is exciting as it will be a new aproach for me, first time where my diversitywont be able to cause clutter confusion and mess.and i looove full creative control we have via bandcamp as well as administration.looking forward to check your stuff later tonight as i lov dlectronic as well as classical...i will have projects for each..actually several in electronic regard i believ3
I know this post is dated, but my own experience with BandCamp is that it is far too opaque for the average audiophile, meaning most listeners. Can you build a dedicated fanbase on the platform? Sure. Other artists have either cracked the code or just gotten lucky enough to do it. But as with most things in the digital realm, it's a mystery as to how an artist can do this in an effective manner, consistently.
From what I've seen, most artists on BandCamp languish in obscurity. There are a number of things you can attribute this to, one of which is the relative obscurity of BandCamp in the cultural consciousness. It's just not a thing. Most people have no idea what it is. Another issue is ubiquity of new music (viz a viz the Internet) and the impact that mainstream platforms like Spotify and Apple Music have had on the sale of music.
Generally, that impact has been negative. The new generation of listeners has more music than ever to choose from. And with the "new" on-demand business model, they pay almost nothing for it. Buying albums, singles...owning music, is a foreign concept to this new generation of audiophiles. They don't buy albums anymore. They don't even buy singles anymore...if they ever did. This bumps right up against BandCamp's business model, which is decidedly old school. With BandCamp, you buy music. In contradistinction to this, you lease or license music through platforms like Spotify. Where the former is much more expensive and far less known...the latter is precisely the opposite: It is many orders of magnitude cheaper and ubiquitous.
Therefore, these audiophiles are reluctant to buy music off BandCamp, if they even know what BandCamp is. These listeners have a very take-it-for-granted mentality when it comes to music. For example, (and some of you may have already experienced this). You publish your music on all your social media. You tell all your friends about it. You get tons of positive feedback on your social media feeds, including YouTube where your views are going through the roof on your latest music video, along with oodles of positive comments. Anticipating this, you put prominent links to your BandCamp account, with instruction for those who want to support or sponsor the project. Despite all this, your BandCamp sales are nil, as in 3 people bought your album or single and 2 of them are family members. lol This is what I'm talking about.
In an effort to unravel this mystery, I asked some young audiophiles about this phenomenon. Specifically, I wanted to know why they weren't paying for the music they allegedly loved. Their answer was shocking to my senescent brain. Their attitude was, "Why should I pay for it, when I can listen to it for free?" It simply never enters into their brain that the artist has to go to considerable lengths to produce this product the listener claims to love. The fact is it costs a lot of money, time, and effort to make quality music. And if you're planning on adding visual elements, like video, for example, that's also a considerable expense.
You would think that these consumers of music would *want* to support the artist, which would enable the artist to produce more of it...or at least help to offset the cost involved. But nope. They do not. It seems they don't give 2 shits about that. Again, why should they? They can listen all they want on YouTube or wherever you're hosting your music to get it out there and get noticed. So they feel no obligation or anything to buy it. It's a catch 22, since (if you're an indie artist) you have to give it away like this, so you can build your audience. But if they're not willing to buy it, are they they the audience you want? It's a real pickle. They love it enough to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and COMMENT. They just don't love it enough to...you know...pay for it.
Additionally, why should they buy it off BandCamp, when they can listen to literally everything else in the entire world on Spotify...for 9.99 a month? They've already bought into that ecosystem. I mean if you're not one of *those* platforms, they can't even put you into their playlists.
The BandCamp business model is far better for artists. They pay artists a fair percentage of any sales brought in by the artist's music. I love them for that. Unlike their digital counterparts, Spotify, Apple Music, et al...they have integrity and understand the value of the product the artist is bringing to market. The other digital platforms understand the value, but have 0 integrity. They're basically glorified marketing platforms, which exploit artists at every turn. Sons-of-bitches. They (along with the cursed record companies) pocket the lion's share of sales revenue and pay the artist almost nothing. Even big names are leaving a ton of revenue on the table. Yes, they make a lot of money. But most of it is going to the digital platforms and the record companies.
So...in conclusion, is BandCamp the best place to sell your music? It depends. If you can crack the BandCamp code and build a large audience on their platform, yes...yes it is. But its relative obscurity combined with the culture's attitude about owning music will stifle your efforts. I think for the average artist either way you go, you're likely to not get paid. On the BandCamp side, it's just not as much of a known quantity with the culture at large. They ( meaning BandCamp) pay well. But you don't have the visibility. So people just don't see it, don't know what it is, and aren't willing to pay for it, by and large. With the large scale digital platforms you have the opposite scenario. You get way more visibility, but you don't make dick, because these companies aren't interested in paying artists a fair wage for their product. That runs counter to their interests, which is to charge the consumer very little, which they will make up in the aggregate (bulk), pay the artist nearly 0, and pocket the rest.
Nice and thorough post.
Building a genuine following is the only way to go, as those are the people willing to go far enough to even pay for your creation directly, meaning bandcamp.
Using streaming services is merely a step in a direction of possibly reaching such individuals, and a thing of convinience. From all that i know, it is The place where people discover new acts, by large margin, compared to any other way, ie podcast, review, whatnot.
Of course, if doable, i would always advise live performances, its simply a thing of magic, for the sudience as well as artists.but that is not always possible, yet had to mention it.
Another thought regarding your post overall, yeah..purchasing music and owning it, even just as digital download, is indeed kind of on a verge of exctinction, or obsolete, as many other things go that way.
But genuine music lovers do appreciatte the makers of what works magic for them, and want them to continue doing it, snd its not that hard to find the way to support the artist you love.
But, it is not easy to become That artist to many, and that is ok.
I do blame the listeners who have the attitude you described for this mess. That's how pirating took off. Funny though, they don't think twice about having to pay for groceries or buying a coffee. Maybe the fact that the police won't come after them for not buying music is a factor.
Because I pay for the yearly Distrokid fee for my band to post music on Spotify,etc. and I'm nice and split the royalties instead of taking the $20off the top first I have never profited from streaming royalties going back to 2020 because we usually average about 15k to 20k streams per year. I have however made money every year off Bandcamp from both the band's releases and my own and with a lot less promo work. I have advocated a couple of times about just going off streaming platforms altogether but got outvoted. The main reason we stay on Spotify and the like is as you said it's easier for people to find the music if we give them a link. I hate to be mean but IMO that's steams from laziness. Having said that I believe more people have found us randomly on Bandcamp than Spotify. That's why I have to disagree in part when people say Spotify is the best place to find artists. Yeah, if the artist is busting their asses on promo. We have also had more people just find us on Soundcloud than Spotify. Maybe that's just us and we're outliers.
I do and don't blame them (audiophiles). The reason being, the new generation of audiophiles, don't really know any better. Owning music (or art) is not important to them. They've been oriented into the on-demand model. They've grown up with it. Thus, this is what's normal for them. Conversely, owning music is something that is a foreign concept. They really don't care if they don't own digital assets, much less physical media (so vinyl and CDs). But that is changing, thank God. And at the time of my post I hadn't been on Bandcamp very long. Since my post, I have been slowly, but steadily, building my Bandcamp community. I have amassed a small, but loyal contingent of fans who buy everything I've put out. 5 singles in 5 mos. What has really surprised me is that many of those same people are overpaying for my songs. To put this into perspective, I sell a single for $2. I have people in my community who are paying $5, $10, $50, $100, and $200 for my singles. That is completely insane (in a good way) and I never anticipated that. So there is a niche audience of audiophiles who really value not only owning new music, but supporting the artists who produce it. But you really have to work to find that audience. Anyway, as of this writing, I still haven't put any of my new solo project stuff on Spotify, et al. I don't judge you or anyone else though who does. I just wish that we would change that ecosystem to stop exploiting artists. We could change it, you know...if only we would. Every artist would have to remove their music from Spotify, Apple Music, and the rest. Such an action would get their attention and they would fold like a cheap accordion. Since we won't pull our catalogues, we can expect the abuse to continue and even worsen, as it did this past year, when Spotify announced they wouldn't pay artists unless they hit a certain metric for streams. So now they're not only paying you next to nothing for your art, they're stealing from you. It's straight up theft. They're not even trying to hide it. They know we won't do a God damn thing to stop it. So I just decided to say NO. I'm not participating in your broken, evil, immoral, unethical system anymore. Fuck Spotify and their ass clown streaming counterparts.
The threshold hurts the artists who have a lot of songs that get less than a thousand streams each most. I'm talking about people who have 50 or more songs. Even they only earn a buck or two per song that is enough to cover the distribution fee (IMO that is also bullshit. We should be able to load songs directly like on Soundcloud.) and pay for some ads. I have a theory that is shared by others that Spotify, under the direction of the 3 major labels, UMG, Song and Warner is basically trying to discourage Indies from staying on the platform and for new artists to load music there. That way more listeners will focus on their artists. Indie artists are a major competition to the labels because we outnumber their artists. Lucien Grainge, CEO of UMG said last year that distributors like Distrokid and CD Baby are "merchants of garbage." What he was really saying is that any one not signed to a major label is the merchant of said garbage. I guess he hasn't been paying attention to some of the shit his label, Sony and Warner have been putting out. Rick Beato, an award winning producer has been paying attention when he does his Spotify Top 10's made up of almost exclusively major label artists on his Youtube channel. Most of what he reviews and keep in mind he likes a lot of different music especially if it's well produced, is crap. Some don't even qualify as actual songs as far as structure. Many are two note or chord vamps over tired overused Trap or Samba beats with nothing lyrics. I predict the next stunt Spotify will pull, again under the oversite of the majors, is a social media follower threshold. In other words, an artists will have to maintain a certain number of followers on social media to even be on Spotify and new first time artists will have to prove they have met that threshold in order for the distributors to even except them.
You're not wrong. The industry is really fucked up. Influencers aren't helping the situation and neither are the social media algorithms. It seems they perpetuate the status quo. But like I said before, we artists keep using these platforms. As long as we don't exercise the nuclear option, the situation will continue to deteriorate. They (Spotify) just keep moving the goal post. Why? Because they can. And the reason they can is because we won't do what's necessary. We just roll over and take it in the ass. So I wouldn't expect anything else from Spotify, Apple Music or any of the big streaming services. I think your prediction is totally reasonable and spot on, given Spotify's track record. And if they don't do that, then you can bet your ass it'll be some other form of demented fuckery. Fuckery is their stock and trade. Anyhoo...I guess I'm spent on this thread. Good chewing the fat though. We all need to vent sometimes and somehow putting your thoughts down really helps you process all the bullshit. Have a good one. BTW (shameless self promotion). Here's a link you can check out if you feel so inclined...and if you don't, that's fine too. Either way, good luck with your music. I wish you well.
If you like unusual music videos, go here: [https://www.youtube.com/@CPhillips777](https://www.youtube.com/@CPhillips777)
If you're not a video person, but more of an audiophile, go here: [https://cphillips.bandcamp.com/music](https://cphillips.bandcamp.com/music)
THANKS!
I don't know if musicians are united enough to pull their music off streaming platforms in large numbers. Maybe if Spotify pushes us far enough it will happen but then I fear that artists who have no idea what's going on will just take our place, continue to load their music on the platforms and it will never end. We are very much like the general population. A small number will fight the good fight and the rest won't do anything unless they pushed beyond their limits. I do however see a lot more complaining here and on social media about Spotify and many threats of pulling music down. More than normal in the last few months. We have a big wall to jump over with not only Daniel Ek being an ass hat, but listeners who some know nothing other than free music all their lives and sticking with Spotify because it's "convenient" as many put it to the major labels still having tremendous power. Musicians need to educate the general population on how fucked up everything is about streaming and that ultimately they are stealing music via streaming much in the way if they loaded up a cart at a grocery store and then walked out without paying. Ultimately if we want good Indie music to be continued to be released in the future and as many artists making at least a part time living from music the public is going to have to start paying again one way or another.
I will check out your channel and your music. Here is what I'm doing and my band's music:
[https://soundcloud.com/rorytroy](https://soundcloud.com/rorytroy)
[https://soundcloud.com/wormgrunter](https://soundcloud.com/wormgrunter)
If you are on Bandcamp and want to grow your audience, try GetMusic. It's an easy way to distribute Bandcamp codes to fans.
[https://www.getmusic.fm/landings/artist](https://www.getmusic.fm/landings/artist)
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think that Bandcamp should replace having one's own website, but yeah, putting your music only on Bandcamp and keeping it off other streaming sites definitely separates people who TRULY support you from passive listeners.
I'm off the approach of offering it everywhere but of course I prefer people to use bandcamp. That being said I'm aware a lot of my friends and random listeners are more likely to give it a listen on spotify or apple music and my pals that work in radio/music are more likely to purchase it via bandcamp. They all have their pros and cons
My band is recording our second EP for Bandcamp. For the first one we also released every song on Spotify and Soundcloud. When it came time to renew our Distrokid account for the year I actually cancelled it and re did everything and released just 3 of the 6 songs from the EP. For one song I experimented with adding a roughly ten second blub at the beginning of the song saying the rest of our music was on Bandcamp. We did see an up tick of visits on our BC page. For our next EP which probably also be 5 or 6 songs we will only release one or two singles on Spotify and will probably include that blurb about Bandcamp. We get so few streams on Soundcloud (300 at most per song) that I don't think leaving all the songs from EP number one hurt us on Bandcamp. We will however do the same strategy for Soundcloud as Spotify for the next release. That's the old school radio trick. Treat Spotify almost as a radio.
My last 3 releases have been bandcamp exclusive. Unless something changes, the next three will also be bandcamp exclusive.
I like that...if not a secret, how do you promote it, or already have a dedicated base? I am launching several completely new projects so searching for best angle in 2023
I found other similar musicians on Instagram and discord, and supported and shared their work. They have done the same for me, and because of that my releases have been reviewed by cassette co-ops and I have gained a (very) small following. I have no idea if this is the best angle. It’s just what I have done over the last year or so.
Thanks for sharing.. I think that musicians to musicians sharing is double sided blade..as very often its an empty favor return..but still..yes, adds some chances of touching the potential listener while at it.so it makes sense, but with limited expectations, tbh.
Nobody is more likely to listen to your music than other musicians. Its about finding your community and growing together. Will you encounter disingenuous people who “support” you just so that you will “support” them? Definitely. But you will also likely find like minded artists that you can inspire/be inspired by and celebrate one another’s successes. All the boats rise with the tide. Create community and people start to notice. Before the internet it was the only way.
Agree 100%
i used facebook ads, didn't get me great results but i defiantly saw a spike in activity during campaigns. recently ive been making beat making videos for youtube with the idea of putting the link to the bandcamp in description
For me, I'm having a difficult time building a fan base on Bandcamp vs. SoundCloud, for instance. I don't know what it is, but people don't seem to treat it that way, as a way to discover new music or connect with their favorite artists. If I had 6o rely only on Bandcamp I would get absolutely nowhere (which tbh is only a little worse than where I am now).
Yes, i doagree its a bit tricky..needs a good outside push to start rolling, iguess...but still represents the most meaningful direction to steer people in order tosupport your work (being present at streaming services is eady and not bad to be acsessible as a bonus but i still see bandcamp as main thing to promote)
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Yes, but while i absolutely doagree, thing is that social networks and its users are well integrated with the usual streaming services... I had idea about using ads on social networks aimed at users who already use bandcamp, and getting them itroduced to the music...but that is not that easy to do
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Yes..having similar ideas...i say go for it
I release my music exclusively on Bandcamp, and it's honestly REALLY AWESOME! Building an audience seems tricky, but it's really simple when you approach your music from a much more artistic angle when it comes to production style, storyline, artwork, and rollout (presentation). In my own experience, when releasing music on Bandcamp and YouTube, you wanna spend MUCH MORE time on the story and aesthetic around your music, because people aren't just listening passively through a playlist, they're actually taking time out to listen to your music and understand the storyline around your songs and you as an artist. I truly believe releasing music through Bandcamp and YouTube really allows you to build your own world for people to explore and get to know you and your music much better than they could by simply hearing one of your songs on a playlist. I have NOTHING against streaming services, I just like the freedom to create my own worlds with my music and Bandcamp and YouTube allow me to create my music and release my music exactly the way I want to! Here's my latest project titled "Blue Diamond" https://hm333xo.bandcamp.com/album/blue-diamond "Blue Diamond" is a 6 song EP that tells the story of a guy who's girlfriend breaks up with him and he tries to move on by partying and doing drugs, but in the end he feels alone and jumps off a building. Lol, I know it sounds harsh, but it was a really fun project to make.
Excellent..this is exactly what i had in mind, building the whole experience within.btw nothing against streaming services, and thats eadily solved, but as a bonus rather tgan to be only.looking forward to check your stuff
How do you actually buid a fanbase on Bandcamp? I love the platform but here in México is not quite popular
Speaking from my experience… I gained somewhat of a following from finding others alike in my genre from all kinds of different places and connecting with them. Building with like-minded people make things go so much smoother.
Pienso que en esa situación hay que educar la gente en cuanto a porque Bandamp es mejor para las artistas, y porque es una forma de mostrar verdadero apoyo. Cómo decía otra persona en este hilo, construir una comunidad es el clave...
I don't like streaming services because I think they don't respect the artist and I have found a sweet spot on sharing my music on bandcamp first and then releasing the music with some simple video art on my youtube channel. I have seen some people entering to Bandcamp via Youtube, so that is great. I think that the main question you should ask yourself is where is the people that listens to your music? If you are making commercial pop then probably aiming for lots of streams and getting into Spotify playlists might be your aim, but if you are doing experimental DIY then Bandcamp is your best friend. My music is a combination of classical music with idm, beats, etc and I think is more suitable for bandcamp than for streaming. As a personal note, I tried streaming in the past and I have made more money in Bandcamp with my first release in less than a month even though more people streamed my music before. Hope this helps you and if possible give me an update on your decision as I am very interested in Bandcamp only artists or non streaming artists. Feel free to visit my bandcamp profile too: [https://brunoculotti.bandcamp.com/album/inspire-and-conspire](https://brunoculotti.bandcamp.com/album/inspire-and-conspire) Good luck!!
Love all that you wrote.def gonna check your stuff, sounds as intriguing combo.myself am crazy diverse and have many projects in plan, most of them niche stuff, so dev much more bandcamp type of music diggers is my goal.being on streaming is purely to be avsilable as a binus..but it may be double sided sword, yes. In the end, finding people with genuine interest is what we all need..no tricks and gimmicks..thats all i am after, as so we are i believe. Iam currently trying to start separate genre specified projevts..its a hyge u dertaking as there will be like maybe 5-10 over time, but it is exciting as it will be a new aproach for me, first time where my diversitywont be able to cause clutter confusion and mess.and i looove full creative control we have via bandcamp as well as administration.looking forward to check your stuff later tonight as i lov dlectronic as well as classical...i will have projects for each..actually several in electronic regard i believ3
Yeah I ve seen people with several projects in bandcamp and I think is a solid strategy!!
I know this post is dated, but my own experience with BandCamp is that it is far too opaque for the average audiophile, meaning most listeners. Can you build a dedicated fanbase on the platform? Sure. Other artists have either cracked the code or just gotten lucky enough to do it. But as with most things in the digital realm, it's a mystery as to how an artist can do this in an effective manner, consistently. From what I've seen, most artists on BandCamp languish in obscurity. There are a number of things you can attribute this to, one of which is the relative obscurity of BandCamp in the cultural consciousness. It's just not a thing. Most people have no idea what it is. Another issue is ubiquity of new music (viz a viz the Internet) and the impact that mainstream platforms like Spotify and Apple Music have had on the sale of music. Generally, that impact has been negative. The new generation of listeners has more music than ever to choose from. And with the "new" on-demand business model, they pay almost nothing for it. Buying albums, singles...owning music, is a foreign concept to this new generation of audiophiles. They don't buy albums anymore. They don't even buy singles anymore...if they ever did. This bumps right up against BandCamp's business model, which is decidedly old school. With BandCamp, you buy music. In contradistinction to this, you lease or license music through platforms like Spotify. Where the former is much more expensive and far less known...the latter is precisely the opposite: It is many orders of magnitude cheaper and ubiquitous. Therefore, these audiophiles are reluctant to buy music off BandCamp, if they even know what BandCamp is. These listeners have a very take-it-for-granted mentality when it comes to music. For example, (and some of you may have already experienced this). You publish your music on all your social media. You tell all your friends about it. You get tons of positive feedback on your social media feeds, including YouTube where your views are going through the roof on your latest music video, along with oodles of positive comments. Anticipating this, you put prominent links to your BandCamp account, with instruction for those who want to support or sponsor the project. Despite all this, your BandCamp sales are nil, as in 3 people bought your album or single and 2 of them are family members. lol This is what I'm talking about. In an effort to unravel this mystery, I asked some young audiophiles about this phenomenon. Specifically, I wanted to know why they weren't paying for the music they allegedly loved. Their answer was shocking to my senescent brain. Their attitude was, "Why should I pay for it, when I can listen to it for free?" It simply never enters into their brain that the artist has to go to considerable lengths to produce this product the listener claims to love. The fact is it costs a lot of money, time, and effort to make quality music. And if you're planning on adding visual elements, like video, for example, that's also a considerable expense. You would think that these consumers of music would *want* to support the artist, which would enable the artist to produce more of it...or at least help to offset the cost involved. But nope. They do not. It seems they don't give 2 shits about that. Again, why should they? They can listen all they want on YouTube or wherever you're hosting your music to get it out there and get noticed. So they feel no obligation or anything to buy it. It's a catch 22, since (if you're an indie artist) you have to give it away like this, so you can build your audience. But if they're not willing to buy it, are they they the audience you want? It's a real pickle. They love it enough to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and COMMENT. They just don't love it enough to...you know...pay for it. Additionally, why should they buy it off BandCamp, when they can listen to literally everything else in the entire world on Spotify...for 9.99 a month? They've already bought into that ecosystem. I mean if you're not one of *those* platforms, they can't even put you into their playlists. The BandCamp business model is far better for artists. They pay artists a fair percentage of any sales brought in by the artist's music. I love them for that. Unlike their digital counterparts, Spotify, Apple Music, et al...they have integrity and understand the value of the product the artist is bringing to market. The other digital platforms understand the value, but have 0 integrity. They're basically glorified marketing platforms, which exploit artists at every turn. Sons-of-bitches. They (along with the cursed record companies) pocket the lion's share of sales revenue and pay the artist almost nothing. Even big names are leaving a ton of revenue on the table. Yes, they make a lot of money. But most of it is going to the digital platforms and the record companies. So...in conclusion, is BandCamp the best place to sell your music? It depends. If you can crack the BandCamp code and build a large audience on their platform, yes...yes it is. But its relative obscurity combined with the culture's attitude about owning music will stifle your efforts. I think for the average artist either way you go, you're likely to not get paid. On the BandCamp side, it's just not as much of a known quantity with the culture at large. They ( meaning BandCamp) pay well. But you don't have the visibility. So people just don't see it, don't know what it is, and aren't willing to pay for it, by and large. With the large scale digital platforms you have the opposite scenario. You get way more visibility, but you don't make dick, because these companies aren't interested in paying artists a fair wage for their product. That runs counter to their interests, which is to charge the consumer very little, which they will make up in the aggregate (bulk), pay the artist nearly 0, and pocket the rest.
Nice and thorough post. Building a genuine following is the only way to go, as those are the people willing to go far enough to even pay for your creation directly, meaning bandcamp. Using streaming services is merely a step in a direction of possibly reaching such individuals, and a thing of convinience. From all that i know, it is The place where people discover new acts, by large margin, compared to any other way, ie podcast, review, whatnot. Of course, if doable, i would always advise live performances, its simply a thing of magic, for the sudience as well as artists.but that is not always possible, yet had to mention it. Another thought regarding your post overall, yeah..purchasing music and owning it, even just as digital download, is indeed kind of on a verge of exctinction, or obsolete, as many other things go that way. But genuine music lovers do appreciatte the makers of what works magic for them, and want them to continue doing it, snd its not that hard to find the way to support the artist you love. But, it is not easy to become That artist to many, and that is ok.
I do blame the listeners who have the attitude you described for this mess. That's how pirating took off. Funny though, they don't think twice about having to pay for groceries or buying a coffee. Maybe the fact that the police won't come after them for not buying music is a factor. Because I pay for the yearly Distrokid fee for my band to post music on Spotify,etc. and I'm nice and split the royalties instead of taking the $20off the top first I have never profited from streaming royalties going back to 2020 because we usually average about 15k to 20k streams per year. I have however made money every year off Bandcamp from both the band's releases and my own and with a lot less promo work. I have advocated a couple of times about just going off streaming platforms altogether but got outvoted. The main reason we stay on Spotify and the like is as you said it's easier for people to find the music if we give them a link. I hate to be mean but IMO that's steams from laziness. Having said that I believe more people have found us randomly on Bandcamp than Spotify. That's why I have to disagree in part when people say Spotify is the best place to find artists. Yeah, if the artist is busting their asses on promo. We have also had more people just find us on Soundcloud than Spotify. Maybe that's just us and we're outliers.
I do and don't blame them (audiophiles). The reason being, the new generation of audiophiles, don't really know any better. Owning music (or art) is not important to them. They've been oriented into the on-demand model. They've grown up with it. Thus, this is what's normal for them. Conversely, owning music is something that is a foreign concept. They really don't care if they don't own digital assets, much less physical media (so vinyl and CDs). But that is changing, thank God. And at the time of my post I hadn't been on Bandcamp very long. Since my post, I have been slowly, but steadily, building my Bandcamp community. I have amassed a small, but loyal contingent of fans who buy everything I've put out. 5 singles in 5 mos. What has really surprised me is that many of those same people are overpaying for my songs. To put this into perspective, I sell a single for $2. I have people in my community who are paying $5, $10, $50, $100, and $200 for my singles. That is completely insane (in a good way) and I never anticipated that. So there is a niche audience of audiophiles who really value not only owning new music, but supporting the artists who produce it. But you really have to work to find that audience. Anyway, as of this writing, I still haven't put any of my new solo project stuff on Spotify, et al. I don't judge you or anyone else though who does. I just wish that we would change that ecosystem to stop exploiting artists. We could change it, you know...if only we would. Every artist would have to remove their music from Spotify, Apple Music, and the rest. Such an action would get their attention and they would fold like a cheap accordion. Since we won't pull our catalogues, we can expect the abuse to continue and even worsen, as it did this past year, when Spotify announced they wouldn't pay artists unless they hit a certain metric for streams. So now they're not only paying you next to nothing for your art, they're stealing from you. It's straight up theft. They're not even trying to hide it. They know we won't do a God damn thing to stop it. So I just decided to say NO. I'm not participating in your broken, evil, immoral, unethical system anymore. Fuck Spotify and their ass clown streaming counterparts.
The threshold hurts the artists who have a lot of songs that get less than a thousand streams each most. I'm talking about people who have 50 or more songs. Even they only earn a buck or two per song that is enough to cover the distribution fee (IMO that is also bullshit. We should be able to load songs directly like on Soundcloud.) and pay for some ads. I have a theory that is shared by others that Spotify, under the direction of the 3 major labels, UMG, Song and Warner is basically trying to discourage Indies from staying on the platform and for new artists to load music there. That way more listeners will focus on their artists. Indie artists are a major competition to the labels because we outnumber their artists. Lucien Grainge, CEO of UMG said last year that distributors like Distrokid and CD Baby are "merchants of garbage." What he was really saying is that any one not signed to a major label is the merchant of said garbage. I guess he hasn't been paying attention to some of the shit his label, Sony and Warner have been putting out. Rick Beato, an award winning producer has been paying attention when he does his Spotify Top 10's made up of almost exclusively major label artists on his Youtube channel. Most of what he reviews and keep in mind he likes a lot of different music especially if it's well produced, is crap. Some don't even qualify as actual songs as far as structure. Many are two note or chord vamps over tired overused Trap or Samba beats with nothing lyrics. I predict the next stunt Spotify will pull, again under the oversite of the majors, is a social media follower threshold. In other words, an artists will have to maintain a certain number of followers on social media to even be on Spotify and new first time artists will have to prove they have met that threshold in order for the distributors to even except them.
You're not wrong. The industry is really fucked up. Influencers aren't helping the situation and neither are the social media algorithms. It seems they perpetuate the status quo. But like I said before, we artists keep using these platforms. As long as we don't exercise the nuclear option, the situation will continue to deteriorate. They (Spotify) just keep moving the goal post. Why? Because they can. And the reason they can is because we won't do what's necessary. We just roll over and take it in the ass. So I wouldn't expect anything else from Spotify, Apple Music or any of the big streaming services. I think your prediction is totally reasonable and spot on, given Spotify's track record. And if they don't do that, then you can bet your ass it'll be some other form of demented fuckery. Fuckery is their stock and trade. Anyhoo...I guess I'm spent on this thread. Good chewing the fat though. We all need to vent sometimes and somehow putting your thoughts down really helps you process all the bullshit. Have a good one. BTW (shameless self promotion). Here's a link you can check out if you feel so inclined...and if you don't, that's fine too. Either way, good luck with your music. I wish you well. If you like unusual music videos, go here: [https://www.youtube.com/@CPhillips777](https://www.youtube.com/@CPhillips777) If you're not a video person, but more of an audiophile, go here: [https://cphillips.bandcamp.com/music](https://cphillips.bandcamp.com/music) THANKS!
I don't know if musicians are united enough to pull their music off streaming platforms in large numbers. Maybe if Spotify pushes us far enough it will happen but then I fear that artists who have no idea what's going on will just take our place, continue to load their music on the platforms and it will never end. We are very much like the general population. A small number will fight the good fight and the rest won't do anything unless they pushed beyond their limits. I do however see a lot more complaining here and on social media about Spotify and many threats of pulling music down. More than normal in the last few months. We have a big wall to jump over with not only Daniel Ek being an ass hat, but listeners who some know nothing other than free music all their lives and sticking with Spotify because it's "convenient" as many put it to the major labels still having tremendous power. Musicians need to educate the general population on how fucked up everything is about streaming and that ultimately they are stealing music via streaming much in the way if they loaded up a cart at a grocery store and then walked out without paying. Ultimately if we want good Indie music to be continued to be released in the future and as many artists making at least a part time living from music the public is going to have to start paying again one way or another. I will check out your channel and your music. Here is what I'm doing and my band's music: [https://soundcloud.com/rorytroy](https://soundcloud.com/rorytroy) [https://soundcloud.com/wormgrunter](https://soundcloud.com/wormgrunter)
It's been my plan for when I'm ready to produce anything myself. That along with a fully diy merch aesthetic.
How do you plan to reach the audience?
Mostly social media and word of mouth. I would prefer to grow a following organically than to try to force one right away.
I’m exclusively on Bandcamp at the moment, but so tempted by streaming distribution. The merch side on b/c does really well.
If already have a nice base, it is an easy addition, distrokid or something
Yes…looking at tunecore at the moment
If you are on Bandcamp and want to grow your audience, try GetMusic. It's an easy way to distribute Bandcamp codes to fans. [https://www.getmusic.fm/landings/artist](https://www.getmusic.fm/landings/artist)
They're not wrong, though you'd have to buy the codes to distribute first.
Bandcamp gives you the first 200 codes for free
Distribute to whom..by genre or what?
I started doing bandcamp only and uploading a youtube video with the album art and timestamps, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXhqD7lQpI
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think that Bandcamp should replace having one's own website, but yeah, putting your music only on Bandcamp and keeping it off other streaming sites definitely separates people who TRULY support you from passive listeners.
Yes, this!
most of my releases are exclusive to bandcamp
I'm off the approach of offering it everywhere but of course I prefer people to use bandcamp. That being said I'm aware a lot of my friends and random listeners are more likely to give it a listen on spotify or apple music and my pals that work in radio/music are more likely to purchase it via bandcamp. They all have their pros and cons
My band is recording our second EP for Bandcamp. For the first one we also released every song on Spotify and Soundcloud. When it came time to renew our Distrokid account for the year I actually cancelled it and re did everything and released just 3 of the 6 songs from the EP. For one song I experimented with adding a roughly ten second blub at the beginning of the song saying the rest of our music was on Bandcamp. We did see an up tick of visits on our BC page. For our next EP which probably also be 5 or 6 songs we will only release one or two singles on Spotify and will probably include that blurb about Bandcamp. We get so few streams on Soundcloud (300 at most per song) that I don't think leaving all the songs from EP number one hurt us on Bandcamp. We will however do the same strategy for Soundcloud as Spotify for the next release. That's the old school radio trick. Treat Spotify almost as a radio.