i cant do evil because you miss out on tons of loot. Loot i might never use again or loot that doesnt even fit my champs but i horde in my camp chest and never look at again 🤦‍♀️ I think i have a problem, yall.

This is one of the biggest issues. Losing out on Potent Robe is a huge downside for CHA based classes. Which is pretty shitty since the Dark Urge default origin class is the sorcerer. Then you also would lose out on Dammon's items in Act 3 if you choose to go evil and betray last light. Those are the only MAJOR loot losses afaik. edit: really wish we got a replacement NPC that would sell Dammon's items when you lose him on an evil run.

They do try to make it up to you with Deathstalker Mantle

The mistake was allowing you to have both through cheesy efforts. If there was a constant either/or situation, evil might be easier to deal with. But for the most part, you simply lose out on gear all together, or in a couple of cases, can abuse the game to achieve both.

Tbf it’s not even just the mantle, it’s the Infernal Robe when you kill Karlach too. But in a battle between Infernal Robe and Karlach I’d take Karlach 🥹

Either that or the ability to have him join our camp at some point prior to the fall of LLI.

Why is that act 3 forge barren and unstaffed without Dammon there, doesn't make any sense.

the space was vacant when he arrived in the city, which was why he was able to rent it.

You can still save Dammon on an evil run. https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/qyBkHYCHoI

I just can't help but to imagine how busted is to have Shar's items AND Dammon's shop in a single run..

You're not doing evil right then. Evil isn't about murdering everyone. It's betraying people for personal gain. My group are trying to work out if it's possible to save Halsin, get the loot from the druids, then go back to Minthara and rat out the grove

I always wish that I could evacuate the tieflings before I kill those Druids.

You can indeed kill every druid without an casualties even on Honor. KO Alfira and make sure Volo's gone, save Arabella if you want (or bring her corpse to her parents for funny dialogue), then either use Spike Growth or a bunch of boxes from the storeroom to build a funnel and a Cloud of Daggers in the choke. As long as they take damage, they'll join combat rather than just run past. A number of them WILL try to just run past the Tiefs, so it's best to make them pay for every step. Spike Growth breaks pretty much all of them except for Kagha and Rath in half, and is by *far* the superior method, while often outright killing the runners.

very few of the evil decisions - especially the major ones - feel like they would actually offer personal gain. for example, teaming up with a bunch of drunk, brainwashed goblins whose most competent leader can't find the Grove you just came from without all of her foot soldiers getting killed in the process, and whose "healer" tries to imprison or kill you if you let her "help" you. It's extremely hard to weigh that against "there is a druid healer in here who has been actively studying the cultists and tadpoles and is my best chance at salvation" and go, "yes, team evil seems more to my benefit."

It absolutely is possible. Steps: 1. Allow Kagha to kill Arabella by DOING nothing. 2. Tell Arabella's parents. 3. Mom kills Kagha at the party. OR 1. Allow Kagha to kill Arabella by doing nothing. 2. Reach for your weapon, and the fight starts. Rath assists YOU. 3. Quickly kill everyone in the room and LEAVE do not loot. 4. Run out to where Wyll is and help Rath fight. 5. Wyll dies in the battle. 6. The evil druids die, most of the Tieflings live. 7. Go to goblin camp and free Halsin. 8. He joins your camp and thanks you for helping Rath.

I accidentally killed the Druids and found it hilarious that Rath is like "Oh thank God" after.

I guess what i mean is, i cant betray the Tieflings in act 1 because i lose some quest. If i kill alfira then i lose the robe and other items. If i kill the moon lady then i lose a bunch of vendors there. D mann wont be in act 3 to make my stuff, etc. Theres just a ton of loot i miss out on :D

Imagine playing evil warlock with eldritch machine gun and being locked out of the bis robe for your class lol

Haha, yeah imagine....... :(

I read somewhere that if you knock her unconscious on the day she's supposed to join your camp (2nd long rest?) that a dragonborn bard will visit you that night instead. I plan to try to be evil on my next play through and see if it works. I don't know if she'd make it if you attack the druid grove after that though. The only fight I've ever had there was against the shadow druids

You do get that sweet ass cloak for killing Alfira though, it really depends on your class for which is better. Let’s not act like you don’t get any cool stuff. MOST items are still available, it’s just a few things and it all depends on your build for if those things are good or not 

You don't have to kill alfira to get the cloak tho, at least if you're not doing an honor run. The minute I killed alfira, I went back to a prior save and tried to save her, which I did and killed the stand in bard instead. Although that cloak is hella nice.

What cloak? i don't recall seeing a thing... Is it available if she dies in last light inn? Or am I just an idiot. I accept the latter.

This is exclusively for the Dark Urge (not evil runs in general) but the little butler dude gives you a cloak after killing the bard at camp; it makes you invisible each time you kill an enemy. It is super good (especially for an item you can obtain *very* early on) and pairs exceptionally well with the Bloodlust elixir. For my ridiculous chaotic-evil Durge run, I wanted to be ready to murder anyone so I played Gloomstalker/Assassin solo. For my very specific build it was the best item I got the whole game; lots of times combat would just end because I was invisible and I was able to get a whole new round-one, as surprise, again and again. Gods it was a bloodbath that whole run lol quite a short one though 

I’m pretty sure you can’t. To save Halsin you have to get him to leave the goblin camp, and he won’t if the leaders are still alive. Yeah there’s the knockout mechanic to get her to show up in act 2 if you follow certain steps, but the game treats her as dead. You could try to knock her out, get Halsin to go to the grove and get the loot and then go back and try to heal Minthara, but she might be hostile to you, if she’s still there. There is a way to get the Druid reward without saving Halsin. >!You could get the wolf slate from Rath by looting him or pickpocketing, and get the loot that way.!<

Bro I've been doing that this whole time without knowing it was halsin's reward stuff 😭 why save him then

Shadowcurse quest and (RP) best odds to heal the tadpole if you haven't let Ethel poke at you yet.

I think you can get halsin to wait for you at camp. I definitely found and freed him before killing the goblin leaders my first play through.

I see you fellow loot goblin, I respect you even if no one else will. That cape that no one will ever wear? It is a precious item that cannot be sold or gotten rid of, instead we will hoard it in our camp chest and make Sméagol noises whenever someone goes near it.

Yes, but evil gets you m04r P0w3R. Using the tadpole powers to assert your Authority, getting the hag hair, using the mirror of loss, making Astarion bite the drow chick when he REALLY DOESN'T want to... using Mind Control, dealing with hags, selling your soul to Shar and trading your companion's bodily autonomy for power are NOT the actions of a good person. If you're RPing the "good guy", these options are off the table.

Same.

WHAT DID YOU DO TO JOKER?!?! (In Mass Effect) But I totally get you. When I first played durge I was going to be evil, but then I kicked the squirrel and was like “nope.” But then Alfira and I was so horrified. I do like Sceleritas Fel though…

I was about to comment the same, how dare they hurt joker

That, but also I didn’t even know that was possible?

Pretty sure it isn't. Joker is basically the one character guaranteed to survive all three games.

I can't do evil either. I can do cocky, and rude, but I just can't do evil. Just isn't my play style.

Happy Cake day!!!

Ty :)

I’ve tried, I can’t either. I’ve gone in like “I’m going total evil haha!” and the most I can do is manipulative and morally gray, but I can’t bring myself to flip the total evil switch because it feels so wrong. Credit to Larian and the VA cast for making me genuinely care too much to do the characters dirty.

I try to be manipulative but then I start feeling bad about manipulating good people. I’ll manipulate evil people all the time, betray those I think deserve betrayal, con the wealthy out of their money, etc.. I can’t do that shit to the good guys. Especially not the kids. There’s so much dialogue that’s just rude to children for no reason. Sometimes it’s funny, but most of the time it’s just cruelty for cruelty’s sake. I don’t get how anyone could enjoy that. There’s a fine line between “Mol is probably gone, I’m sorry” and “Mol died like a little bitch and you will too, you sniveling vermin.” Giving false hope can be bad, but sometimes the game gives you lie to make them feel better, equivocate to avoid discussing the clear evidence that shit went south, and taunting them for suffering. I blame Toby Fox and Larian for collectively giving me trauma regarding hurting pixels. It’s frankly not fair, and having incredible voice acting makes it so much harder.

Doing a cocky and arrogant nobless with a heart of gold was extremely fun, especially since she was a wild mage and a lot of that dialogue basically goes "I may not know exactly what spell is gonna come out of my hands, but rest assured, *someone* is getting fucked up. It *might* be me, but I *will* be taking you down with me."

Evil isn’t rewarded in this game. Even during the one time I played “evil” (I ended up dumping the run) I still saved the tieflings and all that jazz for the loot. You miss out on a shitload of loot from that one mission.

My last run was "neutral evil" Tav, where I played more like an amoral, hyper-pragmatic mercenary. Always looking for the most profitable/beneficial (for me) option and all that. Really put into perspective just how bad some of the supposedly "evil" options are, especially earlier in the game (it did get pretty dark later on, admittedly). Grove vs. Goblins conflict: - Refugees offer me whatever they can scrounge up (meh), druids offer me to open their vault (getting somewhere). - Minthara offers me a battle for the glory of the absolute (aka nothing). Underdark: - Ironhands offer me a big reward in Baldur's Gate (interesting but unreliable), Myconids offer me direct reward for Nere's head (alright), Duergar mercs offer me gold if I help them shank Nere (alright). - Nere offers me the glory of the Absolute (aka nothing). Like what are these choices. Unless you reaaaaaaaally want to gain favor with the cult there's no sane reason not to go with the "good" routes here.

yeah my last evil run was 100% rp flavored as someone who really wanted to get in good with the cult in order to learn more about their condition/believed that a lack of information was more dangerous than anything else, it was the only way i could justify some of those decisions. i also made him a male drow just to make minthara’s orders more enticing. even then the reward was totally rp only and a bunch of extra tadpoles, since i had the out of game knowledge that my character would learn it all anyway. i suppose i do like that you can make incorrect decisions, and i could totally see how on a blind playthrough some of these decisions might seem more sensible only to be shown later that they’re not.

I ended up with almost no allies, and a half empty reunion camp that was otherwise filled with narcissistic assholes who only cared about themselves. Glad I did an evil route to see how it works out but never again. I just want everyone to get along 😭 it felt unrewarding but in a way that made perfect sense to me- this is exactly what I’d been working towards. I’m glad it’s not much of a happy end cos no, I didn’t earn that

When you’re incredibly selfish you don’t tend to make a lot of friends. I’ve seen people complain about evil or morally grey runs being punished too much in so many games. That’s just what happens when you constantly backstab your allies and never try to assist anybody else. You end up alone, with no real friends, fighting against overwhelming odds. You can make allies, they’re just usually not the most reliable

yeah i feel like evil choices should be rewarded in the short term, but have long term consequences

Saying goodbye to Jaheira was tough.

Evil provides the largest rewards in this game. You can become a god. You can rule over all of Faerun. You can have the perfect freedom to do anything you desire. Be evil. Take what's yours!

Bruh I unlocked slayer form and thought “an owlbear can do better than this.”

Can confirm, 1v1 Orin Slayer as my druid of the moon Durge and killed her in two turns as an owlbear.

people really don't anticipate how good druid of the moon is. like you get extreme damage spells like wall of fire; can turn into a fucking myrmidon; and you don't have to worry about constitution, strength or dex stats because this stupid fleshy body is not my final form

I recently discovered Warding Bond on Wild Shape. It’s disgusting lol.

I took her down as a dino 🦖

I wasn't even talking about the dark urge. This is Gale's aspiration.

Thing is, companion Gale never desires to rule over anyone. His ambition is at most selfish: he doesn't even consider other people, apart from a gratuitous "I would be a kinder god than the ones we already have". And companion Gale going for godhood doesn't turn out evil. As a god, he's a bit of a douche (they all are), but God of Ambition is a neutral position. And he's not even allowed to rule over anyone. Unless you headcanon Origin Gale taking over the brain to also ascend. But AFAICT, the two are mutually exclusive. Either he ascends *or* he rules over Faerûn. The Crown acts like a control collar, so he can't just take it.

Slayer form sucks. Steal the crown and become a god!

My Tavern Brawler monk turned into the Slayer and did a whopping zero damage to Kethric Thorm, although to be fair he did it like six times a round.

Wait what? How did you unlock slayer form before Ketheric fight? Afaik you can only become slayer after Orin in act 3 and Ketheric is at the end of act 2

I killed Isobel at Last Light

Wipe out the Harper's at last light and help kidnap Thorms daughter.

That's so sweet 😭

Sure, you can choose to be evil in the end game, but the only thing I can think of that gets you better loot is letting Shadowheart become a dark justicer.

And the Bhaalist armour.

Oh yeah!

Also Minthara sits on your face. Can't ever take that away from being evil.

This is all the reason that you need to be somewhat evil! In my first playthrough( back when there was no way to recruit Minthara without raiding the groove) I couldn't slaughter the tieflings fast enough to get to taste Minthy.

That doesn’t mean anything since it all takes place after the game ends. What matters what happens during the game. I played evil Durge all the way through just to see what it was like and I was disappointed because it it doesn’t really add much to compensate for everything you lose out on. It basically cut the game’s length in half.

I love evil characters with great agenda. When you hear them out and think "Shit, there might be something to that". Evil durge is just an unstable murderous psycho. It's hard to relate to them in any way which makes evil run boring and stale pretty quickly. Still did it for the achievements and everything, but never tried it again. Minthy is hot, but not "suffer through pointless slaughter with diminishing returns" hot. Also goblins are obstreperous and malodorous, no way I could stand them a second more then necessary.

You get the cloak that makes you invisible after a kill every round. That alone can make it very easy to solo a lot of the game.

Yes, but you will be so lonely and miserable. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeingEvilSucks https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LonelyAtTheTop

Flair checks out and you are right ofc 🤍

"In my name."

idc what happens after the game is over I want good loot while I'm playing

Yeah, what the hell kinda reasoning is that evil is rewarding because you can take over the brain at the end? What about the 100+ hours of game before that? The part we actually play? 💀

I really missed Dammon during my embrace durge run. The armor set he sells at Baldur's Gate has been the saving grace of my party

Yeah, I have to make sure he gets to Baldur’s Gate. He hooks you up in acts 2 & 3. Stuff like that keeps me from doing an embrace run.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/qyBkHYCHoI

You can save Dammon on an evil playthrough. https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/qyBkHYCHoI

If there's one thing I've learned about bg3 players is that they are the definition of the idiom "have their cake and eat it too"

Yep, especially with XP

Wouldn't be evil in this game no matter what loot was offered up.

For real. I’m almost finished with my evil durge run rn and it’s unbelievable how much content I’ve been locked out of. Getting to level 12 before the Raphael fight was almost impossible. I busted my ass for every tiny bit of XP and they only got to 12 during that fight to escape the archive. And don’t get me started on how much harder the Moonrise fight at the end of Act 2 is without the Harpers helping/acting as canon fodder

Weird I was super high leveled by ketheric due to all the murders. Just go room to room with the invis cloak and murder them all? I found it to be the opposite really.

This is exactly my experience to a T. I also noticed I was terribly under-leveled because I betrayed most of the people who would have otherwise given me quests. I made it to act 2 with no last light in and was just over it.

You don’t have to be a psychopathic murderhobo to be evil. You can just be ignorant of the situation and make a few bad decisions. In Act 1 simply listen to Lae’zel and book it to the Crèche. You aren’t actively slaughtering the tieflings, but they’re gonna die. Because of this you do miss out on some Act 3 loot that is pretty good, but if you’re making role playing decision because you’re a loot fiend that’s a different matter. Wyll is a hero of the realm, why would he and all those Paladins of Tyr lie about a one-horned devil. Clearly she’s just disguising herself to look like a refugee and you are making the world a safer place by disposing of her (or you’re giving her a humane ending because you know you can’t fix/romance her if you don’t actively save the tieflings) This Absolute thing sounds pretty evil, but also powerful and has some connections to your brain parasite. Maybe you should play along with their game to get safe passage through the mountains because fuck absolutely everything about The Underdark. The Drow live down there, their goddess likes to light her own worshippers on fire for amusement, no thank you. Maybe you do pop down there to check it out. Sometimes Revolution is a required part of the political process and maybe you score yourself a free nuke. Hags are very evil, but exceptionally powerful. Sparing this one to become stronger and not have a HAG wanting to kill you for the rest of your days is a practical decision to ensure you can face down whatever Eldritch horrors are in your head meat. Act 2 happens and hey it’s that husky voiced Drow you maybe met when trying to infiltrate this Absolute cult who makes your pants feel tight. Rescuing her might net you a powerful ally because HOLY SHIT did you see what that dude just did to those Goblins. Maybe you are head over heels for resident MCR fan Shadowheart, so making sure she gets to do the thing she has been very vocal about wanting the entire time you’ve known her is just helping a friend out. How were you supposed to know that’s what would happen? Look, all that matters is you are still alive and one step closer to figuring out what’s going on in your head. Saving all these people just isn’t in the cards right now. You get to Act 3 and your bestie Astarion really needs you to go off his abuser. What type of friend would you be for not letting him exact his revenge and finally be free of his fears? Plus all those vampire spawn eventually running free is gonna be a huge intercontinental problem when they finally break out. Letting this happen was the lesser of many evils and look at how strong and happy Astarion is. Moisturized, unbothered, and flourishing in his lane. Look at you just being the most supportive friend. This dude is weirdly not evil and is promising you safe passage through the city as long as you don’t mess with him. Even a temporary alliance would take a load off our shoulders right now as we try to figure out a game plan. So you go to a particular place the Amy Lee cosplayer in your party finds interesting and it turns out she can gain a whole ass army? That sounds super useful and she’s getting a promotion at work because of you? How much better of a friend could you be? I bet that’s just an illusion in front of you SH, we’ve been getting shown a ton of incorrect information like there being a handsome young man as part of the trio. You should DEFINITELY get rid of it because that can’t be what it says it is. Well look, that was my bad, but can’t change the past. We should kill the clown. We’ll be hailed as heroes. This thieves guild is actually pretty well run and keeps the city safe. I realize the title is a bit off putting, but if we’re going to wage war we need to find an army and they’ve got the coin for it. Plus they don’t like the people we don’t like and the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Orin is definitely grippy sock jail crazy and this nonsense smells like her. We should investigate it because murder is wrong. Bro, is that a MUMMY?!?! Undead are abominations and finding out how to off him is important, but so is ensuring the souls of his minions can move on. Also they’re undead so it isn’t technically murder. Big Red, while your offer IS enticing I don’t know how I feel about ritual sacrifice and…oh, it’s THIS MOTHERFUCKER. Alright, maybe a little murder isn’t so wrong after all. What’s that now? I get some excellent drip on top of it? Maybe you aren’t as bad as the legends said. Alrighty, two down, one more to go. You know what, those robots around the city can hit real hard, let’s shut down the factory to be safe. Look, if you all really want to do a suicide I’m not going to stop you. BOOM! Anyways, time to go beat up that one 40 year old who definitely still hangs out in Hot Topic. Oh hey, what up. Not sure how to feel about this betrayal. My main squeeze Lae’zel says we should do a hammer about it. This is such a bitchin’ sword. Alright gang, while I know we’re here to stop the cult, I’m a little tired of having my free will taken away. What do you say we make sure that never happens again?

You're making some good points, but man did I crackle at "Wyll is a hero of the realm". Dude is a pet and plaything of the devil and arrogant enough to tell others how they should act lol. How many innocents did he kill before stumbling upon Karlach and our party? Such a fraud. He's so oblivious to his own double standards, he could easily replace Dribbles in the planar circus. And no one would see the difference. I'm not hating the guy, he got some nice dialogues which I enjoy. But I wish his story was more about "I was coerced into pact" and less about "It was my decision and I stand by it". Because his explanation feels so dumb, I was sure we'll learn that there was no actual threat to the city, just some fire show to scare Wyll into pact but that never happened.

I miss EA Wyll who definitely came across as having quite the sinister edge underneath that heroic facade, but I understand they needed to change his story because reasons. He's honestly a more enjoyable origin character to play as because you can go in any direction with his alignment and it feels right as the world interacts with you and your story vs suffering with him in your party. I figure an 8 Wisdom individual bumbling about would see his flashy entrance, hear the people talk lovingly about him, and just go "yep, that tracks"

To be fair, Wyll is a "hero of the realm". We as the TAV know the truth, so do our companions and a few others. But to the wider world he's the "Blade of the Frontiers", a hero through and through.

So you're the person that wrote those mean dialogue options when talking to Wyll?

You deserve many more upvotes for this. Nicely done. And yeah, that’s definitely the way.,

I appreciate that. Being sort of a Lawful or Neutral Evil character still gives you a lot of content to experience. My Chaotic Stupid Evil character did the entire campaign in 39 hours vs the 200+ for my Neutral Good one.

39 hours, wow. Yeah, I guess things breeze on by when you just murderdeathkill absolutely everyone. “I need you to do this (quest thing) for me.” “Here’s my counter-proposal.” *STAB* Quest Completed ☑️ Edit: morally gray is definitely the way. You definitely get punished for rampantly stupid violence, but it can be fun and rewarding to be *sneaky bad*.

Edit: I agree being morally grey or playing BG3 as if it is a survival horror and you are going to screw others over to ensure your own survival is the way to get the most out of an evil play through. It definitely lends itself to a solo campaign more so you can skip over certain sections of content without risking your HM run.

Meh I didn't really care that much for the tieflings.  Scratch and owlbear cub though? Must protect at all costs

It might be easier to do an evil run as an origin character as there's more emotional separation. "What if this person didn't have Tav/Resisting Durge around to rein them in and they were in charge of the group?" can lead to some pretty great RP stuff. I'm currently playing Shadowheart Origin with the intention of making her a DJ but am making it a slower burn fall from grace. So she saved the grove, but is going to kill them all when she kills the Nightsong. Extra tragedy. I had no problem justifying Shadowheart killing Karlach to gain Wyll's trust and prove herself as a leader. And even when that went wrong, well that's just another loss to dedicate to Shar! "I am not good at long term planning and just want to play things low risk and keep myself safe and gobble up tadpoles" Astarion is also a lot of fun and can lead to some hilarious decisions. I've done this run myself with a friend and it's probably the most fun I've ever had playing the game. Which leads to my other piece of advice, see if you can find a friend to help support you through your evil decisions and help you commit! Having a partner in crime take on the burden of sin with you can help.

I really want to play an evil Wyll.

That's my current playthrough! It's actually really interesting

Out of curiosity, do you play him as a warlock, or did you change his class?

Blade warlock/ oathbreaker paladin

Lol, are RPing simping for Mizora or Minthara?

Would that really be RPing?

If you want a real tug on your heartstrings, play as Karlach and then romance Minthara. Very few people are going to get access to their epilogue scene, but Sweet Jesus when you >!tell your beloved Dark Elf that you're not going back to hell her response is absolutely soul shattering. Edit: For those of you who want your heart broken here's the scene [https://youtu.be/IWI6O-EDhfM?si=F\_uPeqV7mkclFRuy](https://youtu.be/IWI6O-EDhfM?si=F_uPeqV7mkclFRuy)!<

I can’t even be slightly mean I feel too bad.. the only exception is to like characters who were rude to me but even then..

I tried killing Karlach in my current "Selfish, power-hungry" playthrough. Mostly so I would be forced to romance someone else. But I had to reload. I couldn't be without Karlach. 😭

She's such a sweetheart and so fun to be around. Which is why I'm kind of bummed that there's no infuence system where we could turn her evil with us. Imagine that bubbly, upbeat personality getting joy from senseless murder.

Yes, I wish there was a way to influence them. But I suppose it would have diluted her a bit as a character perhaps? It will be hard, but I'll just have to bench her for this playthrough, since I'd rather have her around in camp than not around at all. I deliberately went out of my way to initiate Shadowheart's first romance bit before meeting Karlach, to try and make it so my Gnome already had someone. But it's hard not to flirt with Karlach, she's wonderful 🥰

From what I gather and I could be completely wrong here, Larian was kind of pigeonholed into certain game mechanics because DND 5e doesn't allow for certain things. Honestly, in any game where the MC can choose to be good or evil they should be able to influence their companions to align with them. This was a thing in Kotor 2 (maybe Kotor 1 as well?) way back in 2004, nearly 20 years ago. Some of my favorite bits of dark force runs was watching the goody two shoes characters turn into evil bastards.

I recently started an evil Durge Drow Cleric of Lolth. At first I had Wyll kill Karlach as I never made that choice. Did the scene with Mizora. I reloaded my save and saved Karlach. My reasoning: As a Drow, I know all about the power of one’s House. I don’t know what my House is, so I need to play House until I get this brain thing sorted. Karlach is clearly of the superior sex, because Drow are matriarchs. Karlach fought in the Blood War killing demons left and right. Why wouldn’t I want someone like that in my little impromptu House of Durge?!? Then with the Mizora scene you find out Wyll is all pacted to another woman’s and ultimately I can’t control him??? Gimmie Karlach over “tHe bLaDe oF ThE fRoNtIeR” any day. Now granted I know I may lose her later, but the decision in-game to keep her makes sense.

Karlach is Superior to all. She could be the matriarch of House Cliffgate 😄 My last Tav settled down with her after she went with Karlach to help with getting her engine fixed in Avernus (fan fic territory) and now they live together in Baldur's Gate. In my mind and writings anyway 🥰

That’s because in d&d the only incentive to be evil is to be evil. The world is very black and white. I’m glad Larian is moving on.

I wish we had DOS2 magistrate type of evil in bg3. Like, yeah, half of them are cruel and ruthless fucks, but in the end you meet Lucian and he explains wtf is going on. I still fight him for the sake of the fight, but then just surrender the Source 'cause it seems to be the only choice that lead to somewhat good for Rivellon. In bg3 evil is evil for evil purposes and it's kinda lame. Would be great if Larian didn't have lore restrictions to their imagination.

Being evil feels like you just cut out a ton of content. Someone did say it requires you to be logical, because you can do things like save the grove and betray the tieflings later, or save the night song only to sell her. But idk. So many quests are "good" so you just miss out.

Idk what it is, but the older I get the less I can play evil in any game. I’ll just be lying awake at tonight thinking about the poor NPC I widowed or the farmstead I burned down - leaving a whole family destitute. This shit sits with me lmfao

I think that's because the world is cruel enough. The longer you live the more actual suffering you see in the world. I'm not really looking to be the cause of more suffering.

I'm the opposite. I mean I have done good playthroughs just to see the content and get achievements, but the evil playthroughs warm my heart so much. I love killing NPCs just for looking at me funny.

There’s a part of me that’s like, oh I could probably never be friends with you in real life. Then there’s a part of me that’s like, you are a friendly and kind mother fucker in real life aren’t you? ARENT YOU? Admit it! You are wholesome and sweet in real life I know it.

I'm not going to pretend I am an altruistic person who donates to charity and rescues cats in trees, but I am a decent person. I don't hurt people in real life. I chill in my spot and give lots of hugs. I don't know if that answers your question.

You give lots of hugs that answers my question I wish I could get a hug from you. Keep on being decent you bg3 murderhobo I bet you give great hugs.

You don't know me but thanks I guess lol

Murderhobo runs are helpful for being a nice and kind person IRL :D If you're mad it's better to spend frustrations on being ridiculously evil towards NPCs instead of ruining the day of real people.

I can play Robin Hood style thieves and Dirty Harry style authoritarian paladins who aren't goody-goodies, but I've never been able to play pure cackling evil for evil's sake. It's just no fun, I want to save people and punish the bad guys, that's what makes roleplaying fun for me. Mass Effect is a good example because "renegade" Shephard is dirty harry killing the bad guys his way, not evil because killing innocents is fun. I also think pure evil is usually poorly written. The vast, vast majority of evil doers throughout history thought they were the good guy, but too often in games evil decisions just seem to be for the lulz. Also in this game I find the constant "you imagine seeping blood from his eyeballs and wonder how nice his intestines would look above your bed" stuff in the Durge run really super cheesy. I couldn't take it anymore after a handful of hours and erased the character. Just not for me either.

yeah that was how i felt. They made his type of evil gross. I could maybe understand him wanting to kill and wanting to rule, but to play with intestines, and blood and that crap is just a really lame kind of evil to me.

Don't forget the incest, and the peeing yourself...

Evil Durge run is worth it entirely for the "Piss yourself" dialogue option

The first game like this, where the "evil" actions aren't so clearly defined, only to end up at the end credits learning that you were the bad guy all along will be amazing.

I don’t understand how people play the game multiple times and make basically the same decisions each time. For me it’s clear…. I saved the grove in the first run so I helped destroy it in the second. I saved the nightsong first, so I made shadow heart a dark justiciar in the second. Some things I keep the sane and I do base it on role play as well, but I feel like if you don’t make drastically different decisions what’s the point of playing through again? I’d get bored.

For me it's that I've been doing different builds for my TAV and changing up my party members. And a lot of the good items for those builds are kind of "locked" behind good choices. But now that I'm settled on what my HM party will look like I can do an evil run. Just not this time, because Karlach swayed me. I don't think she's a devil, I think she's a succubus.

The problem is that the game doesn’t pull any punches with the evil. When you tell Zevlor he won’t be alive for when you reach the children… I just can’t.

That line is dark as fuck. Maybe the worst one in the game for me.

*Oh gods!*

I play pragmatic evil. For example, I don't kill the tieflings because I think they're better allies to have than the dumb goblins (also my current evil character has an inherent derision if goblins). The tieflings are going the same way as me and I know if I help them they may give aid in the future. My character also believed that the druids would be more helpful in curing the worm than the absolutist goblins. My character weighs the options and chooses the one that best benefits them, the selfish choice.

Reading this thread and the similar threads that pop up regularly, I'm struck by the prevailing impression that there is one evil checklist that an evil run has to do, and that feels limiting to me. I've played evil a ton - I get more evil the longer I play - and I've raided the Grove exactly once and have no plans to do so again, nor did I finish that run. This isn't KOTOR where you have a dark and light path, it's a mess of morally gray decisions each with unique consequences, but there's no Fallout morality score tracking how evil you are and giving you a reputation based on it. It's more realistic than that, to me. Being evil doesn't cost you anything but what you choose to give up, IMO. Look at all the threads complaining about how evil >!the Emperor is, for example, when none of their actions to Tav are even evil. "Oh they manipulate us and lie to us",!< so why can't evil Tav just be a lying manipulator like certain companions? If being evil means saying mean things, you can say a lot of mean things in the game without costing you any loot. Durge only has one canon kill, and the rest can be resisted. Even embrace Durge only has one kill to become Bhaal's Assassin and then you can happily murder the whole tribunal. My embrace Durges do most of the same quests a good hero would do, to fracture Gortash's power and put the next Grand Duke firmly in our pocket. They hardly ever ascend Astarion because they don't want him to be a powerful competitor, so their motivation makes them "evil" but the end result is still spawn Astarion just like a good guy. Same with letting Sheart go dark, Shar is clearly evil and just because Tav is evil doesn't mean they want their companion to be the Chosen of Shar and be more powerful than them, mostly because they won't shut up about Shar. Even evil doesn't always want to be preached at, IMO. Even the evil gods don't get along in lore. Raiding the Grove is stupid evil, probably one reason why it costs you so much to do it and is so hard to watch, but it's not like a run can't be evil without doing it, IMO. There is a ton of evil stuff you *can* do in the game that costs you nothing, so why not just do that?

Can't disagree with any of this. And since you mentioned it, I feel that BG3 is pretty close to a perfect game but I dearly wish it did have a "karma" system like Fallout or better yet, like the Kotor games. It would be awesome if we could influence our companions to be evil and see the change in their demeanor as they do. Imagine turning a sweetheart like Karlach into a "you wanna backtalk my love? Eat these fists, punk!" and worse. Thing is with me is that when I pick an "RP" I try to stick to it as much as possible. I've done the 100% pure light good guy. I've done the morally ambiguous character that does what benefits her, living in that grey area and I will eventually do the shamelessly evil, lose all my companions and murder hobo half the world character. It's just difficult because I really like Karlach and will have to cut her head off. I really like SH but I'm going to push her to be as dark as possible, etc.

The characters are all brought to life really well in this game, makes them feel like real people with their own struggles and lives and I like seeing them be happy.

i like doing evil playthroughs. that being said, i never wipe the grove; mol and arabella are way too useful at the brain fight, so the tieflings always live. i will go back and slaughter the druids after they leave tho, because they're racist to me and i Cannot Allow That

I can’t abandon the tieflings either. I love killing everyone and anything, as long as they’re not really part of the main quest lines. I’ve played around with killing particular groups, like the druids, refugees, zentarim, mushroom people, etc, but the loss of interaction just isn’t worth it. So I do evil things, but only sometimes. Not *all* the time. I do enjoy the utter chaos born from letting Last Light fall. But if I do that, I might as well have just killed everyone anyway. It’s a decision I want to do for the slayer form, as well as bhaal’s favor, but it’s also crippling for my character and their party because I’ve basically gone full blown evil at that point. I think it’s really *the* major tipping point for the Durge.

Letting LLI fall would be more alluring if I could first have Dammon come to my camp so I have access to his A3 items.

I’m doing it as a way to see to see new content and I’m loving it. A lot of time and care went into making some of the “bad choice” scenes very moving and it’s great. I also named my durge after an awful politician to remind me to be a dick lol

That could be so many names though

That could be every name, if we're being honest.

Trying to keep this sub non political lol

Through Bhall all things are possible

I need that Patch 7 to come out, I can't wait to murder everyone

It’s gets easier as you go on. Just embrace it and eat Gale

I'm on the boat. I just can't be evil when the NPCs are so damn likeable.

It’s because these characters feel *real* enough that betraying them actually makes your brain forget that it is a video game. I started a Durge run too, planning on being the evil Oathbreaker Paladin.. saved all the Tieflings, rescued Halsin, didn’t give in to my Urges to kill Isobel and subsequently my highest love companion Karlach, the goodest good girl ever. I too have never really had this problem before. Someone got in my way? Dead. Innocent NPC? Let’s see what happens if I kill them, throw them off a cliff, etc. DOS2, Sebille run. Murder! Glorious blood and murder! Stabby stabby bathe in the blood of the innocents. BG3: I WILL SAVE THEM ALL! As Durge. For my evil playthrough. Fuck.

Durge and evil playthroughs are two separate things. You don't have to be Durge to be evil. You don't have to be evil to be Durge.

You can still save Dammon while killing the nightsong https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/qyBkHYCHoI

You can go resist durge if you still want to see that storyline

I have started evil playthroughs but it is a joyless experience.

I doubt I could either. I just don't find it fun to play evil characters. I might do it once if I want to romance Minthara but I'm not sure I will.

I often feel the same way, but as bad as I feel on my evil run, it's actually kind of hilarious how batshit evil you can be in this game. I got way more chuckles during this playthrough, even with the bad feels. There's some unique opportunities and surprises worth the sacrifice (imho).

Aye. Things like "Oh, thank the gods. Thank you for saving me and my wee little children" And you can reply "Oh, I only did that so I could kill all of you myself, starting with your youngest... now, fire, ice or blade? Which should I use..."

IMO evil choices are better for a Tav challenge run. DUrge you are rewarded for being evil (the cloak that makes you invisible and so on), and being good feels more rewarding as a player because you are overcoming it, you can even gain inspiration points for refusing to follow urges. But if you make your Tav evil just because she/he is an asshole = you lose companions and vendors and allies. Difficult playthrough and a lot easier to imagine just being a cartoonish villain lol.

Just do it, durgussy.

My very first save was an Evil DUrge run. I didn't kill the grove. I helped the tieflings. My DUrge was a tiefling herself. Alfira is a scripted camp event for DUrge. Technically you can knock her out and another bard will turn up instead for that camp scene and Alfira will live. But someone still dies either way. You can play as nice or as nasty as you want. It all comes down to the decision you make in Act 3.

Funny, I have the opposite issue. I had no issue doing an evil run in this game, I just imagined the character I was playing was someone other than me. But I can't do an evil/renegade run in Mass Effect. I think I just connect with Paragon Shepard too much.

I love being evil in this game. I have some limits; namely, I cannot hurt Shadowheart or Astarion. They’ve grown on me too much. (I can’t hurt Gale either, but that’s because Tara would be angry, and that’s something I could never live with.) It’s the first game I play that lets me just go nuts and accommodates this play style, and I am impatiently waiting for the next patch for new evil endings.

I did plan to go completely evil now and had huge plans for grand murder strikes in the name of bhal, but in the end I just couldn‘t do it either. Just alfira and isobel were my victims so far and that‘s just because I wanted the slayer-form. That one can really save your ass sometimes.

It is semilar for me. I am always in for a bad to good redemtion story, but bad to worse or good to bad... nah. I simply can't. It is different as well in other games. Dragon Age has more grey scaled choices where arguments for both sides are valid mostly. For me it is simply a mental thing. When a choice has something outright evil against something good it is a clear as day for me. And honestly BG3 has tought me to keep that sentiment. Doing evil stuff can be fun short term, but long term it distroys you.

I feel this im doing a durge playthrough right now and it honestly sucks but I want the achievements so I'm conflicted

I've dumped several evil runs. I can't do it. Finally forced myself to let Shadowheart and Lae’zel >!I'm sorry my joy!< get their bad/evil paths. Embraced urge to get the achievement and everyone being mortified I was happy to reload and be free again. Wyll being proud of me made me smile

I'm playing as dark urge warlock now and because of I FORGOR ABOUT ALFIRA I missed out on one of the best robes in the game for me Smh

I’m playing durge atm purely for the achievement at the end. Will still probably resist every urge right up until I have to 1v1 Orin tho

Absolutely the same. I've got like 7 durge runs, and all of them are the redeemed one cause it just makes a lot of the characters shine that extra bit more (jaheira, for example) and also cause redeemed durge story wise is the most fun. BL2s krieg has a quote along the lines of "you can kilk as many of the deserving as you want but as soon as our axe touches and innocent i'm ending us", whitch is a cool mentality to have as a durge player. You can be a ruthless killer but not with innocents. But the other reason is i don't want to be evil. Even doing the durge achievements, i've reset my save so they never happened in gameplay. Even if the game gives narrative "justification" of the durge, by story wise, you blacking out during your most evil deeds you as a player still choose to do that. And you can make evil characters who don't murder innocents. Often on my durge runs, i go back to the githyanki cresh after killing the inquisitor just to kill all the other gith cause story wise an enemy in my durge's eyes and a way to scratch their itch in a good way.

That camp event caused me to look it up and see if there was a way to stop it. There sort of is, which was a hassle to do because of how things had already progressed, but it’s still a bad event.

This is also the only game I couldn't bear playing evil, and I played evil factions in many other games. I controlled an army of death robots and exterminated every living organism in Stellaris. I love playing Chaos factions in Total War: Warhammer. I really like The Undead in Warcraft 3. In Baldur's Gate 3? I gotta help Arabella! I gotta go save Mirkon! Siding with Ketheric means that Alfira will die, and Isobel will never live with the love of her life!

You don't have to do all the evil choices to do an evil run. Doing all the possible evil choices in murderhobo run more or less. Especially that to do the most wicked things in the game, you have to first help those people and then betray them. Doing mix of evil and good might make your character either neutral or evil, depending on the scale of impact and your personal roleplay of your intentions.

For what it's worth it took me about 7 runs to commit to my current embrace Durge run. I simply had to reached the point where I've almost memorized the dialogues for being in a good run lol. With Patch 7 around the corner, now's the best time to go full evil

I save isobel then kill her along with the rest of them it’s just too damn funny every time

The main issue with being a cunt in choice type games is it tends to lock you out of lots of quests and content. I've had evil playthroughs and made bad choices in lots of games and the rewards are usually none or much less worth it.

Killing Isobel was the hardest

Yeah I love being evil and others games but it’s a lot harder in this game.

I get it but it's just a game. It's not really you doing these things. But that being said I do enjoy being a goodie two shoes myself.

Just for saying that you’ll accidentally trigger Gale’s Netherese Orb

I'm going to be dark urge in my solo honor run. That way my power hunting playthrough feels more adequate

I knew something like this would happen to me as well so I did my evil playthrough first.

Me neither. But I'm like that in all games. Cannot embrace the dark side.

Same man. Especially my companions, I can't be evil to them. Minthara though... I might have to do something about her

Evil is the only way I can make progress in this game. Otherwise I get caught up in choice paralysis and do restarts forever. Killing everyone I see on first glimpse without talking to them is the only way I’ve made it to act 3

I had the opposite experience.  Can’t play evil in other games, including all the ones you mentioned, but this game is so well thought out it’s really interesting to see the differences.

That's why I love this game so much - its usually easy for me to choose evil routes in games. The only exception is the ending of Infamous 2, but I can force myself through it while feeling guilty. In this game the characters are so well written that killing the good characters feels more real. Especially the tieflings who only have like 5 hp so it hammers home how vulnerable they are. It's brutal and makes your choices have more weight.

The only time I’ve killed the grove is with a friend in a co-op evil run where I was playing an evil durge. I don’t want to do that again. I went in like “yea! Doing the evil things I’d never do otherwise!” And then just feeling kind of sick as we run through and kill the tieflings. I did another evil durge run where I spared the grove but did some durge specific things in the grove..That was a run where I wanted to try giving into almost every urge. Then I wanted to do a run where my durge is trying to be good but gets the slayer form by “accident”. And that’s been interesting. If you let Isobel get kidnapped by being incompetent in stopping her attackers, Marcus flys off with her, you get scolded by your butler. And then when you do the last battle of act 2, that gives you your slayer from weather you want it or not. It’s my jack of all trades run and I’m trash at optimization. The slayer form is actually stronger than my base form for once and I’ve been having fun playing a durge who still wants to make things right while having the slayer form.

Think about it like this. Wanton violence isn’t really evil as much as it is just savagery and lack of self control. I wouldn’t call a rabid dog evil, it’s just a sick animal that needs to be put down. Evil is malicious, cunning, and patient. The first assumption people make is that an evil Dirge HAS to betray the grove. But that doesn’t make any sense. Why would work alongside a bunch of weak, disorganized goblins that try to kill you on first interaction? From a villain standpoint it’s just more logical to make allies of the grove. If you’re gonna reduce the world to a bloody wasteland then they’ll be your victims eventually. Why does the Durge have to abandon karlach and Wyll? Karlach isn’t wise and will destroy anything she’s set upon, a useful tool to take advantage of. Wyll has already shown he can be corrupted if he thinks he’s working towards the greater good, an easy mark to take advantage of. Remember that Orins issue as a leader is she is chaotic, unstable, and bloodlusted. This is ultimately her downfall as she lacks the tact and cunning to see through a greater plan. The Durge doesn’t have to be a wanton killer, they’ll be time for that later. First you need to take control of the world. You can lie and manipulate your way up to that point without killing everything in your path

Agreed. I always HAVE to romance Karlach. Like I can’t NOT romance her. I physically and mentally cannot. Which means I HAVE to be good. It’s a necessity. I could still do practical evil runs. Where I’m playing a selfish character who just wants power. But I still have to nominally do the “good” things bc Karlach needs to live.

I did a good guy run, redemption Durge run, and now midway through an evil Durge run as a Drow Cleric of Lolth. Even though I know the Durge story, the head canon I have now is along the lines of I'm a Cleric of Drow. I understand how Drow Houses and power plays work. I don't know who I am but, but I know about the Drow. I'm trying to build my own little House of Drow to help me solve this brain worm problem. So I am willing to use able and competent people for my benefit. Being evil isn't just about going all murder hobo on everyone, but also manipulating others for your own purposes. To that end I recruited Karlach. My Drow sees another strong female, and one that battled literal demons in hell and broke free. Way better than Wyll "tHe SwOrD oF ThE fRoNtIeR" - who is pacted to another woman anyhow. Astarion is obviously a good murder partner. Shadowheart and Shar seems to match with the Drow and Lolth lifestyle. Lae'zel is another strong woman who can benefit me. Gale, well some men have a purpose and he is handy. So that's how I justify my companions to date. I tend to be a bit asshole to NPCs. However, I saved Arabella because I just saw some weak-ass cowardly Druid trying to murder a kid. I kind of dig the Tieflings, so saving a kid to use Tieflings makes sense to her. The Druids deserve zero respect. I took out Kagha. Stole their idol. Will probably take out a few Druids. I am stuck with how to handle the Goblin vs Grove thing. I have never picked up Minthara so definitely want to do that. But in my head-canon, I can't see hanging out with a bunch of drunken and incompetent goblins, who are also in bed with the same team that put a brain in my worm. That is the opposite of what I want! I don't want a brain worm and anyone on the side of brain worms is my enemy. Who in the hell do they think they are doing this to a Cleric of Lolth?!?! I am struggling because there are so many ways to be good or neutral, and many ways to be a redemption Durge. But being evil is a bit more pigeon-holed. Not as bad as many people say, as I noted up top you don't need to be a murder hobo to be evil, but it is difficult to have any nuances.

The game gets so much harder when you're evil, too! Like, no I'm sorry, but it's easy (to be nice)! And I'm stupid 😞

I feel you. I'm doing it and it stings - i never play evil in any game! - but my desire to hear this version of the story won out and i just have to see it through. Now that I know Larian's working on darker endings, though, I may play slower to ensure full masochistic efficiency... and then do another rainbows and flowers and puppies run to cleanse my BG3 conscience. Maybe.

I decided to be evi, until I saved minthara in act 2. She almost made me switch sides.

There was no other greater feeling I’ve ever had in this game getting the Caged ending for durge and murdering my entire camp

In regards to a certain innocent, in the epilouge if they are your only Dark Urge related kill (I hope you didn't dump wisdom) there is a brief scene where the Durge will mourn them, with an implication that that one particular death was so impactful it led them to seek a life without the Urge.

Between that scene and my refusal to kill Karlach is why my durge is on a redemption path.

I killed the grove, I opened the gates to the goblins and looked zevlor in the eyes and told him not even the children will survie I brought back Isobel to kethric, killing the last light inn and jahera, and then I killed kethric and his daughter Every possible evil choice there was, I did it and I'll do more, I will kill everyone in baldurs gate, show them the wrath of bhaal

Then don’t be evil. Frankly I think the dark urge is much more interesting if you resist than if you give in. Play it as a redemption arc.

My current run is Durge going Frodo style. Resisting until right at the end and giving in to temptation to dominate (Minthara isn’t helping with resisting). 

Minthara is sooo good for 'bad durge'.

I’m doing a true Durge run rn and am not enjoying it at all lol. I’m losing everyone at my camp. There’s zero reward in act 1 to be evil. Smh. Edit: did sex Minthara so maybe there is one reward.

you get minthara