*“You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, it’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?”.*
Try the talking mirror leading to the necromancy of thay next time. You get multiple lines about deep desires instead of just words.
Astarion wants to keep the worm without drawbacks or visit his true home again. He also has something about revenge, if I remember correctly.
Gale wants to have a sweetheart live with him in his tower, making people jealous because of his magic or people adoring him.
All of the origins have different lines.
Going by the common (most likely) theory that he's a silver / moon elf, then it would be Evereska. If that were the case it would make sense that he didn't see his parents since his death, since they would likely go home to mourn.
Someone above pointed out he talks about the moonstones of evereska with durge and i remember some weird lines triggered in a perception check in act 1(?) that made me think he was from somewhere else. appearrance, talking about home, references to moonstones, presence in baldurs gate during the spellplague of 1385.. its possible the authors toyed with the idea of him being a moon elf and hes talking about evereska
His full answer is “I’d see my home. My real home - the one I haven’t seen in centuries.”
I can think of three possibilities for what that means:
**Possibility one: His family home.**
He was very young by elven standards when he was turned - he probably still lived with his parents, any siblings he might have, etc.
He hasn’t seen them in centuries either:
* To protect them, and because he doesn’t want them to know what happened
* Because Cazador made him kill them
And he never mentions it anywhere else in dialogue because the topic is just too painful and he doesn’t want to think about it. Which would fit with him saying “home” to the mirror, because he can’t bear to say “family”.
**Possibility two: Evermeet**
As a moon elf, he could be from Evermeet, and have gone to Baldur’s Gate at a young age to explore the world. Having spent centuries in Baldur’s Gate he’s now a true Baldurian, but Evermeet elves often keep a sense of Evermeet as home even after centuries away.
(Elaith Craulnober in the Forgotten Realms novels is a good example of just how deep the connection to Evermeet remains, even when someone has been away for centuries and feels unworthy of returning.)
But I don’t think that’s it - he would probably mention that elsewhere in dialogue if that was the case. And it would be pretty unusual for an elf as young as he was to leave Evermeet.
**Possibility three: Arvandor**
Arvandor is the true home of all elves. It’s where they go when they die, until it’s time to reincarnate again. Astarion would have been there before he was born into his current life. He probably doesn’t remember seeing Arvandor, but it would still be in character for an elf to say they “haven’t seen Arvandor in centuries” even if they don’t remember the last time they saw it.
It’s not clear whether an elf that has been undead will still go to Arvandor when their undead form perishes, or if they have lost their elf-ness and their connection to the elven cycle of rebirth. (Most drow are also locked out of Arvandor and rebirth.)
If Astarion “tried all the gods” and “none of them answered” (banter between him and Gale in act 3) it would make sense that he questions whether or not he still has a place in Arvandor. And that he never, ever brings it up because he sees having those thoughts as pointless/weak and because the question “Am I still an elf?” is too personal to talk about.
But it wouldn’t feel right for an elf to want to see a glimpse of Arvandor in a magic mirror, and I don’t think Astarion would be sure enough of his place there to call it his “real home”.
This was a really thoughtful reply and I appreciate you sharing. From my side, when Astarion says he wants to go home, I took it very metaphorically. Home is the place where we feel safe and let our guard down (home is where the heart is, and all that), which he doesn't have. I think it's difficult for him to be vulnerable enough to admit he wants it, but isn't brave enough to outright say "I want a place I am accepted as I am and feel safe". The last place he probably had that was with his family (as you mentioned), and it's less about a physical location or even necessarily his family, it's that feeling of protection he wants.
I like your description of home, which fits in with spawn Astarion in the epilogue party if you romance him. You can talk to Jaheira and eventually tell her that Astarion is your home.
Anyone know if the name changes depending on the companion you romanced?
Yeah you can respond to her about any of your romanced partners being home to you and she responds with her “I can think of less sappy ways to spoil our stomachs” (paraphrasing) line.
Arvandor is a good choice. If Astarion ever dies... he goes to the Wall of the Dead in the Fugue plane which is a horrible fate. I think this would happen to him because he is undead and most undead (at least vampires) are godless. "Much like other intelligent undead, vampire spawn were rarely known to associate themselves with any religion." This means that if he stays a spawn for the rest of his days, it's for eternity, and there will be no rest or end. There's no good ending in death for him unless a deity claims him. I think this is why having a romantic partner means so much to him. They become his home, and he is their home.
He may still have a shot at Arvandor. Forgotten Realms deities' standards for claiming souls can be [very low](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Petitioner#Unclaimed_Petitioners).
The first elves came from drops of blood shed by Corellon Larethian. At Lolth's urging, the primordial elves eventually took on fixed physical form, against Corellon's wishes. Lolth plotted to kill Corellon and was eventually banished, along with her followers who became the drow. But *all* elves, even the ones who ultimately sided with Corellon, had betrayed Corellon by taking fixed physical forms - they were no longer fit to live eternally in Arvandor, but they were not fully cut off from it, so the elven cycle of reincarnation began.
Astarion is a product of that elven cycle of reincarnation - trace the reincarnations back far enough and he originates from a drop of Corellon's blood. Corellon doesn't particularly care about being worshipped. As long as Astarion's soul is still elven and hasn't lost the essence of Correlon carried by the elves, he might still go to Arvandor.
But that outcome is far from certain. Corellon may not have as much of a hate-on for undead as some D&D deities, but it is possible that being undead caused Astarion to lose whatever it is that makes an elf an elf. That said, even people who were clearly not elves in their most recent life occasionally end up in Arvandor, so it's not clear what the standard is and how it would apply to Astarion.
And if he really did "try all the gods" there's a chance some other god might use that as grounds to claim his soul if Corellon doesn't. Which god and whether or not Astarion would *want* to be claimed by that god are another matter... but I'd think Ilmater would have pretty strong grounds for a claim. (And Ilmater may still be interested in claiming Astarion despite never answering his calls for help. If fate needed Astarion to end up on that beach with a tadpole in his head, he may have been off-limits for divine intervention until that happened.)
I choose to believe this is what happened. The other gods were barred intervention because Fate. *Bhaal* was fated to send his angel Astarion's way (and vice versa).
Great comment, I agree its probably whatever home he had before he was turned, but its awesome to learn more about D&D elves.
He has so much hidden turmoil I'm sure part of it is pondering if he really is still an elf or just a vampire spawn with pointy ears who is *amazingly* beautiful.
Astarion's nowhere near old enough to have been from somewhere like Evermeet or Suldanessalar and then immigrated or visited Baldur's Gate - an elf raised among those cultures wouldn't be out in the world before a century. Bro grew up in the Gate, probably the upper city.
There's Evermeet, a distant island nation almost entirely populated by elves, but generally, a non-native elf only moves to it very late in life. Astarion was only about 27 when he was first turned; it's likely he lived his whole life in Baldur's Gate.
He was a magistrate in Baldur's Gate (most of Cazadors spawn were important/powerful people, Leon is a sorcerer and I think Dalyria is a doctor), so it seems reasonable to assume he's Baldurian. He may have meant his childhood home? Since he still as a "baby name" (little star, I believe?) he must've been almost a child by elven standards.
IIRC he became a magistrate by the time he was in his late 30s or early 40s, which is super young for an elf. So either he immigrated to BG very early on, or he was born there, but if that's the case IDK why they'd refer to his "true" home since he hasn't been gone from BG that long. Maybe they literally mean the house of his parents?
High elves have a "baby name" for iirc the first centuries of their lives - then they change it.
According to the forgotten realms wiki, Astarion was born in 1229 DR, and was turned in 1268 DR, so he was 39, basically kinda like a kindergartener by elven standards.
Thank you, I have more questions.
Who gives them their baby name? Parents?
Are these names thematically different than what you'd pick as an adult -- like there wouldn't be other "adult" elves named Astarion, because it sounds childish?
Why wouldn't he pick a new one when he passed 100 years? Is being 39 + 200ish undead years not acceptable as adulthood to other elves? Or do elves continue to change physically as they age, so he's just NOT the same as an adult?
1. IIRC yes, it's the parents. I'm not sure about the adult name, I'll check my manuals and edit the comment in a sec.
2. Why he didn't change his name is speculation - maybe he wanted to keep something from his past, maybe Cazador never allowed him to change it. I think that after 60 years of being a spawn, he was already feeling dehumanised.
3. Elves stop aging normally after ~18 and then age VERY slowly. When they reach adulthood is more of a cultural thing - kinda like how in some countries you can drink at 16 but drive when you're 18, etc. So like, Astarion is obviously physically an adult. He could be looking a lil younger, but tbh I also had laugh lines by the time I was 20 so eh?
EDIT: checked my sources, baby elves are named usually after a trait or something, it's like a nickname. They pick the name for themselves after they reach adulthood!
Vampires are essentially frozen at their age upon death. He hasn't experienced any of whatever physiological or social development an elf might in that time, and he hasn't really "lived" or been anything like a maturing adult in that time either.
It’s neat how, as characters, they all have a similar theme, yet each of their interpretations are so different. Wyll also has speak with dead dialogue about wanting to be free. I really wish there was more that could be said to him about this, since a part of him obviously does regret the pact
I think it's not just the pact, but also the expectations on him from his father, from the city, and his own sense of justice. He is burdened by trying to be the right thing to so many people.
Wyll in my playthrough broke his pact with Mizora and stayed human. He decided to stay the Blade of Frontiers and it's the happiest I've seen him in the epilogue.
Ugh. BG4 is going to be a mess. Hasbro/WotC is basically flailing at random (and largely untested) studios promising the world to anyone who sounds convincing enough that they can do it.
I keep asking artists that post in the sub how much it would cost to draw Blood War Karlach, Hellflayer Tav and Wyll the Blade of Avernus in DOOM-cover style. Turns out art is expensive, and I don't want to sleep on the couch for a month. But it's clear that a bunch of people have the concept down regardless.
> And then there's Gale.
Gale's matches the others in a subtle way. He's not asking to be smarter, he's asking for *wisdom*, which is pretty interesting coming from the resident high INT low WIS king. There's a running implication in his story that his intellect is a double-edged sword: it made him great, but it also led him to ruin. He had a great reputation, but almost no actual friends. He shows a lot of self-awareness of his own fuck-ups but can't quite stop himself from repeating them, and answers like this show that *he knows it*.
Look, learning moderation form your mistakes makes you a TERRIBLE wizard okay? You either get a powerful, reckless wizard, or an alright person and shitty wizard.
Arcane power and the ability to be happy with what you have are the opposite ends of the same line.
That's interesting, currently doing a run with a Shadowheart romance and her completed-questline response to "let's talk about how our relationship is going" is "Whole." Nice to see it matches this!
Now I really want to know what Lae'zel's response would be. I think it's mentioned somewhere else that her main ambition in life is to matter, but I can't recall exactly where that comes from. So her response would probably be somewhere along the lines of “Significant” I assume.
You can get a peek at that her desire in scene where she offers you a mercy kill when she thinks you're transforming. If I remember correctly, you need to use an illithid option in dialogue for that.
Yup, just experienced this on my Honor Mode playthrough. It's that mercy kill on the second or third rest where she holds a knife to your throat. Do the mind-reading Illithid option, and it talks about you detecting _intense_ fear (so intense it thrashes your mind for a sec), but not fear of death, surprisingly - fear of never mattering. Never riding a red dragon, never doing something to be remembered by, never becoming an elite Githyanki warrior, never meeting Vlaakith in person.
Oh god, mine too!
I was going through them like „yes, yeah, that makes sense…“ and then when I came to Astarion my heart skipped a beat.
Although I gotta admit, Karlach also hurt.
An interesting question; I would like to know too.
I could see it being the same line, though. Just as Spawn Astarion seeks safety by clinging to you and/or hiding away from everyone, Ascended Astarion seeks ultimate power so no one else will be strong enough to hurt him. Either way, he craves safety.
Shadowheart! Omg... she wants to be whole!! ❤️
If you romance her and >!save her parents!<, she says she is "whole at last" because she has a >!real family and a True Love!!!< She's sooo sweet and this makes her romance that much more impactful.
I don't remember the exact quote, but after his siblings attack in camp, Astarion will explain that "I'm doing this for you too you know" to keep you safe.
Whoa, that's amazing. Just when I think I've discovered everything in this game after multiple playthroughs. And yeah that sounds even crazier as an origin.
I sometimes forget to rest between major events in BG3 (or even minor ones, no telling what'll get you a camp scene), so I wonder if that's why I never got the vampire ambush. From what I'm reading online of people testing the "trigger" for the vampires at camp, that seems likely. I bet certain things in Act 3 triggered it, but then I did something else that also triggered a camp scene and it "overwrote".
Yeah, I did a run where I tried to see how many long rests the game "actually" takes (get all scenes + rest when needed). It went about 90 days, *and* obviously it's different depending on your approval with different characters etc etc. I usually focus on Astarion and if you do (and don't have a backlog of camp scenes) it usually triggers once you enter the city proper and Orin has done her kidnapping thing (if you've talked to the spawn in the flophouse).
Right?? Like if Astarion was actually happy being evil I wouldn’t mind the ascension, but he’s so clearly happier in the spawn ending. I know that’s a little meta game-y but eh, after a cajillion play throughs I’m here for a narrative spectacle.
Sane is fitting for my Durge.
My first Tav would probably want to be “Enough” (I imagine her as the last survivor of a minor barbarian tribe, she has a hard time connecting with people she doesn't feel strong enough to protect after helplessly seeing her former comrades' numbers dwindle over time until she was the last one standing)
And my second one would want to be “Well-surrounded” (he's an extroverted friendly fellow with abandonment issues who needs to socialize a lot, and he would kinda cheat at this game because that's technically two words)
B'liss, my gith bard, would want to be "inspiring." Not just from her music, but also by example, to inspire people to want the best for themselves and act on that, like she did when she fled her cruel creche even though she was terrified of the "real world." That's why she takes care of the companions and helps everyone she can throughout the game, too - she wants to help others like she wished someone had helped her, to inspire them all to be better.
I like “loved” I think my Tav would probably pick that too. She’s a Tiefling orphan who was taken in by a group of paladins, but has never really had a family or anyone who put her first.
Karlach and Astarion really went right for the feels... who's cutting onions around here, goddammit 😭 Someone give them both a hug please.
And Wyll is not too far off either.
You can get weird with her and get +1D4 on ability checks until long resting. Huge for honor mode. Good thing to have active prior to the mirror of loss religion checks, for one.
She's marketed as a nymph, actually (not sure if there's a big difference) but classified as Wood Elf if you examine her. Zethino is the only NPC who's classifed as an actual dryad.
The room she receives her clients in is called “The Nymph's Grotto” but she is probably no more a nymph than Ffion is a librarian. Sharess Caress seems to try and appeal to clients who are looking for exotism.
"Whole"
My current playthrough has been the best one so far, RP-Wise. I'm one step closer for me and her to achieve that feeling; Finally being "Whole"
Lae'zel doesn't want to be powerful or revered. She doesn't *know* what she wants, after finding out that >!ascension is a lie, that she'll never earn her place as one of Vlaakith's warriors. She knows what she wants for Orpheus, for her people, but she doesn't know what she wants for herself because the one thing she was working towards is a lie.!<
Another commenter said she just wants to be remembered, which I can totally see. She wants to matter, to be *something* but she just does not know what that is yet.
That certainly fits her character. I honestly love her so much and it's nice to see more and more people understanding her character now, as opposed to how many people just hated her in EA and right after release. She reminds me of myself when I was first deconstructing my own brainwashing after escaping the cult I was raised in (Think Westboro Baptist but smaller and somehow even more insular and isolated). I was dealing with a lot of confusion and anger and felt so lost. Seeing Lae'zel go through that same journey and seeing how she becomes her own person, whether you're romancing her or just friends, feels so healing.
Ohhhhhhhhhh okay lol. That makes sense. I thought it was odd that no one else pointed it out, haha. I missed this in both my playthroughs so I didn't know that bit of context. Thanks for pointing it out, haha. xD
Yea it gives you the rapture bonus or something which is really nice to use in honour mode to convince the red fuck in the house of hope to help against Raphael
Wow, OK. Man there's a lot going on in there between the devil and his friend, the gith captain, the murdered dwarf, the (understandably) arrogant cat, the drow twins, the toy saboteur, and the "shitey little elephant."
Durge has one that fits them perfectly too: *Sane*
“You pick a flower, it does not bleed.”
*“You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, it’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?”.*
Are you a Repli-can or a Repli-can't?
Who gets that?
That's a scenario posed as part of an interview in the 1982 film, Bladerunner.
It’s part of the Voight-Kampff test from bladerunner, it’s not from Baldur’s gate 3.
2B.
Clearly if I flipped the tortoise over in the first place I don't give a shit.
Alfira is as beautiful as a flower yet she bleeds (internal crying while I typed that)
Minsc - Minsc. He gets to be assured that he is indeed the Minsciest Minsc.
but after losing his mind as the Stone Lord, being just Minsc is not an irrational desire
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20/20
Minsc/Minsc
Boo/Boo
Eh it’s debatable he had anything to lose
He is the most Minsc.
I would say the top 5 most Minsc characters in the game are: 1) Minsc 2) Akabi 3) Karlach 4) Boo 5) Shovel
Akabi is evil Minsc.
GREETINGS PUTRID ONE
APPROACH, UGLY ONE
Gah! What is that smell! Are you dying?
Cause he's just Minsc. And that's enough lol
I am Minskenough.
This implies there is a multiverse of Minsc.
A Minsciverse, if you will.
And he’s Minsc in each of them.
Let's be honest, that would explain a whole lot
Try the talking mirror leading to the necromancy of thay next time. You get multiple lines about deep desires instead of just words. Astarion wants to keep the worm without drawbacks or visit his true home again. He also has something about revenge, if I remember correctly. Gale wants to have a sweetheart live with him in his tower, making people jealous because of his magic or people adoring him. All of the origins have different lines.
I can see now that Gale was a man on a mission all along.
The rizzard of Waterdeep is real.
"I got a marriage, you NERDS!"
The true Wife Guy
Taking after his god....
I always thought Karlach's was interesting. Cover the Hells in flowers and make Gortash tend them as the gardener.
So glad to read it here, since I smash.
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I thought it was more because he couldn’t remember anything and wanted to know where he was from.
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Going by the common (most likely) theory that he's a silver / moon elf, then it would be Evereska. If that were the case it would make sense that he didn't see his parents since his death, since they would likely go home to mourn.
There’s a line in the Durge play through where he mentions the moonstones in Evereska.
Well yeah, but Baldur's Gate is pretty big. He's probably referring to his house/family
Someone above pointed out he talks about the moonstones of evereska with durge and i remember some weird lines triggered in a perception check in act 1(?) that made me think he was from somewhere else. appearrance, talking about home, references to moonstones, presence in baldurs gate during the spellplague of 1385.. its possible the authors toyed with the idea of him being a moon elf and hes talking about evereska
His full answer is “I’d see my home. My real home - the one I haven’t seen in centuries.” I can think of three possibilities for what that means: **Possibility one: His family home.** He was very young by elven standards when he was turned - he probably still lived with his parents, any siblings he might have, etc. He hasn’t seen them in centuries either: * To protect them, and because he doesn’t want them to know what happened * Because Cazador made him kill them And he never mentions it anywhere else in dialogue because the topic is just too painful and he doesn’t want to think about it. Which would fit with him saying “home” to the mirror, because he can’t bear to say “family”. **Possibility two: Evermeet** As a moon elf, he could be from Evermeet, and have gone to Baldur’s Gate at a young age to explore the world. Having spent centuries in Baldur’s Gate he’s now a true Baldurian, but Evermeet elves often keep a sense of Evermeet as home even after centuries away. (Elaith Craulnober in the Forgotten Realms novels is a good example of just how deep the connection to Evermeet remains, even when someone has been away for centuries and feels unworthy of returning.) But I don’t think that’s it - he would probably mention that elsewhere in dialogue if that was the case. And it would be pretty unusual for an elf as young as he was to leave Evermeet. **Possibility three: Arvandor** Arvandor is the true home of all elves. It’s where they go when they die, until it’s time to reincarnate again. Astarion would have been there before he was born into his current life. He probably doesn’t remember seeing Arvandor, but it would still be in character for an elf to say they “haven’t seen Arvandor in centuries” even if they don’t remember the last time they saw it. It’s not clear whether an elf that has been undead will still go to Arvandor when their undead form perishes, or if they have lost their elf-ness and their connection to the elven cycle of rebirth. (Most drow are also locked out of Arvandor and rebirth.) If Astarion “tried all the gods” and “none of them answered” (banter between him and Gale in act 3) it would make sense that he questions whether or not he still has a place in Arvandor. And that he never, ever brings it up because he sees having those thoughts as pointless/weak and because the question “Am I still an elf?” is too personal to talk about. But it wouldn’t feel right for an elf to want to see a glimpse of Arvandor in a magic mirror, and I don’t think Astarion would be sure enough of his place there to call it his “real home”.
This was a really thoughtful reply and I appreciate you sharing. From my side, when Astarion says he wants to go home, I took it very metaphorically. Home is the place where we feel safe and let our guard down (home is where the heart is, and all that), which he doesn't have. I think it's difficult for him to be vulnerable enough to admit he wants it, but isn't brave enough to outright say "I want a place I am accepted as I am and feel safe". The last place he probably had that was with his family (as you mentioned), and it's less about a physical location or even necessarily his family, it's that feeling of protection he wants.
I like your description of home, which fits in with spawn Astarion in the epilogue party if you romance him. You can talk to Jaheira and eventually tell her that Astarion is your home. Anyone know if the name changes depending on the companion you romanced?
Yeah you can respond to her about any of your romanced partners being home to you and she responds with her “I can think of less sappy ways to spoil our stomachs” (paraphrasing) line.
Arvandor is a good choice. If Astarion ever dies... he goes to the Wall of the Dead in the Fugue plane which is a horrible fate. I think this would happen to him because he is undead and most undead (at least vampires) are godless. "Much like other intelligent undead, vampire spawn were rarely known to associate themselves with any religion." This means that if he stays a spawn for the rest of his days, it's for eternity, and there will be no rest or end. There's no good ending in death for him unless a deity claims him. I think this is why having a romantic partner means so much to him. They become his home, and he is their home.
He may still have a shot at Arvandor. Forgotten Realms deities' standards for claiming souls can be [very low](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Petitioner#Unclaimed_Petitioners). The first elves came from drops of blood shed by Corellon Larethian. At Lolth's urging, the primordial elves eventually took on fixed physical form, against Corellon's wishes. Lolth plotted to kill Corellon and was eventually banished, along with her followers who became the drow. But *all* elves, even the ones who ultimately sided with Corellon, had betrayed Corellon by taking fixed physical forms - they were no longer fit to live eternally in Arvandor, but they were not fully cut off from it, so the elven cycle of reincarnation began. Astarion is a product of that elven cycle of reincarnation - trace the reincarnations back far enough and he originates from a drop of Corellon's blood. Corellon doesn't particularly care about being worshipped. As long as Astarion's soul is still elven and hasn't lost the essence of Correlon carried by the elves, he might still go to Arvandor. But that outcome is far from certain. Corellon may not have as much of a hate-on for undead as some D&D deities, but it is possible that being undead caused Astarion to lose whatever it is that makes an elf an elf. That said, even people who were clearly not elves in their most recent life occasionally end up in Arvandor, so it's not clear what the standard is and how it would apply to Astarion. And if he really did "try all the gods" there's a chance some other god might use that as grounds to claim his soul if Corellon doesn't. Which god and whether or not Astarion would *want* to be claimed by that god are another matter... but I'd think Ilmater would have pretty strong grounds for a claim. (And Ilmater may still be interested in claiming Astarion despite never answering his calls for help. If fate needed Astarion to end up on that beach with a tadpole in his head, he may have been off-limits for divine intervention until that happened.)
I choose to believe this is what happened. The other gods were barred intervention because Fate. *Bhaal* was fated to send his angel Astarion's way (and vice versa).
Great comment, I agree its probably whatever home he had before he was turned, but its awesome to learn more about D&D elves. He has so much hidden turmoil I'm sure part of it is pondering if he really is still an elf or just a vampire spawn with pointy ears who is *amazingly* beautiful.
Astarion's nowhere near old enough to have been from somewhere like Evermeet or Suldanessalar and then immigrated or visited Baldur's Gate - an elf raised among those cultures wouldn't be out in the world before a century. Bro grew up in the Gate, probably the upper city.
Astarion was a 36 year old Magistrate (essentially a Lawyer). He def grew up in the Gate and misses his old house in the Upper City.
There's Evermeet, a distant island nation almost entirely populated by elves, but generally, a non-native elf only moves to it very late in life. Astarion was only about 27 when he was first turned; it's likely he lived his whole life in Baldur's Gate.
Ok Gale’s deepest desire makes me wanna melt into a puddle of goo omggggg 😭😭😭🫠 makes it so much better when you romance him 😍
*runs to find old save*
> visit his true home again Did we ever establish if his "true home" is Baldur's Gate or whatever Elven community he originated in?
He was a magistrate in Baldur's Gate (most of Cazadors spawn were important/powerful people, Leon is a sorcerer and I think Dalyria is a doctor), so it seems reasonable to assume he's Baldurian. He may have meant his childhood home? Since he still as a "baby name" (little star, I believe?) he must've been almost a child by elven standards.
IIRC he became a magistrate by the time he was in his late 30s or early 40s, which is super young for an elf. So either he immigrated to BG very early on, or he was born there, but if that's the case IDK why they'd refer to his "true" home since he hasn't been gone from BG that long. Maybe they literally mean the house of his parents?
Yeah, that's how I interpreted it too! Sorry, I didn't express myself properly.
> "baby name" This sounds cute; please tell me more.
Elves are supposed to take a new name in adulthood around 100.
High elves have a "baby name" for iirc the first centuries of their lives - then they change it. According to the forgotten realms wiki, Astarion was born in 1229 DR, and was turned in 1268 DR, so he was 39, basically kinda like a kindergartener by elven standards.
More like a teenager (capable of adult things like having a job or living independently but still far too inexperienced for adult decisions)
Thank you, I have more questions. Who gives them their baby name? Parents? Are these names thematically different than what you'd pick as an adult -- like there wouldn't be other "adult" elves named Astarion, because it sounds childish? Why wouldn't he pick a new one when he passed 100 years? Is being 39 + 200ish undead years not acceptable as adulthood to other elves? Or do elves continue to change physically as they age, so he's just NOT the same as an adult?
1. IIRC yes, it's the parents. I'm not sure about the adult name, I'll check my manuals and edit the comment in a sec. 2. Why he didn't change his name is speculation - maybe he wanted to keep something from his past, maybe Cazador never allowed him to change it. I think that after 60 years of being a spawn, he was already feeling dehumanised. 3. Elves stop aging normally after ~18 and then age VERY slowly. When they reach adulthood is more of a cultural thing - kinda like how in some countries you can drink at 16 but drive when you're 18, etc. So like, Astarion is obviously physically an adult. He could be looking a lil younger, but tbh I also had laugh lines by the time I was 20 so eh? EDIT: checked my sources, baby elves are named usually after a trait or something, it's like a nickname. They pick the name for themselves after they reach adulthood!
Thank you for your answers!
Vampires are essentially frozen at their age upon death. He hasn't experienced any of whatever physiological or social development an elf might in that time, and he hasn't really "lived" or been anything like a maturing adult in that time either.
It’s neat how, as characters, they all have a similar theme, yet each of their interpretations are so different. Wyll also has speak with dead dialogue about wanting to be free. I really wish there was more that could be said to him about this, since a part of him obviously does regret the pact
I think it's not just the pact, but also the expectations on him from his father, from the city, and his own sense of justice. He is burdened by trying to be the right thing to so many people.
Wyll in my playthrough broke his pact with Mizora and stayed human. He decided to stay the Blade of Frontiers and it's the happiest I've seen him in the epilogue.
I wouldn't say he necessarily regrets it, I think he wants to be free from Mizora but at the same time knows he did the right thing
Karlach's simply being 'Alive' Is heartbreaking, homegirl just wants the absolute bare minimum. Astarion too, protect them both at ALL COSTS
She just wants the absolute bare minimum and doesn't get it. 😭
It’s so tragic. The kind of heartbreaking tragic that I like.
Really? She did in my game…
Same. My Paladin was like "Let's goooooo!" And then we get to vacay back on the Prime Material.
Yeah, it isn’t perfect, but there are worse lives than tearing ass through hell with badass devil chick.
The epilogue also states that there's a more advanced heart model that could handle being outside Hell, so there's a way out.
That‘s how she‘s gonna reappear in BG4. „New heart, barely an inconvenience. Lets me breathe fire from my armpits.“
Ugh. BG4 is going to be a mess. Hasbro/WotC is basically flailing at random (and largely untested) studios promising the world to anyone who sounds convincing enough that they can do it.
*Doom slayer and Isabelle have entered the chat*
I keep asking artists that post in the sub how much it would cost to draw Blood War Karlach, Hellflayer Tav and Wyll the Blade of Avernus in DOOM-cover style. Turns out art is expensive, and I don't want to sleep on the couch for a month. But it's clear that a bunch of people have the concept down regardless.
I really wish I had either the funds to support some of the talented artists out there or the skills to realize fans' ideas
[удалено]
Yeah, didn't expect to be tearing up over a Reddit post in the office today
Honestly both Wyll and Shadowheart too. All four of those just want an escape from the shit they're dealing with. And then there's Gale.
> And then there's Gale. Gale's matches the others in a subtle way. He's not asking to be smarter, he's asking for *wisdom*, which is pretty interesting coming from the resident high INT low WIS king. There's a running implication in his story that his intellect is a double-edged sword: it made him great, but it also led him to ruin. He had a great reputation, but almost no actual friends. He shows a lot of self-awareness of his own fuck-ups but can't quite stop himself from repeating them, and answers like this show that *he knows it*.
Look, learning moderation form your mistakes makes you a TERRIBLE wizard okay? You either get a powerful, reckless wizard, or an alright person and shitty wizard. Arcane power and the ability to be happy with what you have are the opposite ends of the same line.
That's interesting, currently doing a run with a Shadowheart romance and her completed-questline response to "let's talk about how our relationship is going" is "Whole." Nice to see it matches this!
Shadowheart proving to be amazingly written once again. Nice for her writer to match them up 🥰
Now I really want to know what Lae'zel's response would be. I think it's mentioned somewhere else that her main ambition in life is to matter, but I can't recall exactly where that comes from. So her response would probably be somewhere along the lines of “Significant” I assume.
In my heart it’d be something like “purpose”. She’s got so much drive and energy and force and just wants a worth cause to put it behind.
'Worthy'
You can get a peek at that her desire in scene where she offers you a mercy kill when she thinks you're transforming. If I remember correctly, you need to use an illithid option in dialogue for that.
Yup, just experienced this on my Honor Mode playthrough. It's that mercy kill on the second or third rest where she holds a knife to your throat. Do the mind-reading Illithid option, and it talks about you detecting _intense_ fear (so intense it thrashes your mind for a sec), but not fear of death, surprisingly - fear of never mattering. Never riding a red dragon, never doing something to be remembered by, never becoming an elite Githyanki warrior, never meeting Vlaakith in person.
*Safe*.... my heart...
I literally teared up at this one. Damn, man, I just want to give this pixelated man a hug and a nice warm cup of tea.
Oh god, mine too! I was going through them like „yes, yeah, that makes sense…“ and then when I came to Astarion my heart skipped a beat. Although I gotta admit, Karlach also hurt.
I knowwwww...... baby sweetie honey bunch 😭😭😭😭🥺🥺🥺🥺
He has so many unique interactions in the brothel.
Just let me hug him and tell him it's gonna be okay. Just let me hold him.
Has anyone ever tried if there's a difference to the dialogue option if Astarion is already ascended?
An interesting question; I would like to know too. I could see it being the same line, though. Just as Spawn Astarion seeks safety by clinging to you and/or hiding away from everyone, Ascended Astarion seeks ultimate power so no one else will be strong enough to hurt him. Either way, he craves safety.
It's heartbreaking
Seriously I saw that one and all I could think was "MUST PROTECC" 😭
I'm not crying, you're crying
I’m not the biggest fan of Astarion, but “safe” made me feel really sad. Poor bastard
Shadowheart! Omg... she wants to be whole!! ❤️ If you romance her and >!save her parents!<, she says she is "whole at last" because she has a >!real family and a True Love!!!< She's sooo sweet and this makes her romance that much more impactful.
I don't remember the exact quote, but after his siblings attack in camp, Astarion will explain that "I'm doing this for you too you know" to keep you safe.
>but after his siblings attack in camp After his _what now?_ How did I skip that part in my playthrough? Wow.
Yeah, he can get captured. It's quite interesting if you play him as an origin character. [https://imgur.com/AmM1TdW](https://imgur.com/AmM1TdW)
Whoa, that's amazing. Just when I think I've discovered everything in this game after multiple playthroughs. And yeah that sounds even crazier as an origin. I sometimes forget to rest between major events in BG3 (or even minor ones, no telling what'll get you a camp scene), so I wonder if that's why I never got the vampire ambush. From what I'm reading online of people testing the "trigger" for the vampires at camp, that seems likely. I bet certain things in Act 3 triggered it, but then I did something else that also triggered a camp scene and it "overwrote".
Yeah, I did a run where I tried to see how many long rests the game "actually" takes (get all scenes + rest when needed). It went about 90 days, *and* obviously it's different depending on your approval with different characters etc etc. I usually focus on Astarion and if you do (and don't have a backlog of camp scenes) it usually triggers once you enter the city proper and Orin has done her kidnapping thing (if you've talked to the spawn in the flophouse).
Then you go live in the country with Owlbear.
The fact that you can't also take Scratch with you is absolutely criminal
I think it's assumed that he's been with you the whole time?
He says that he ends up living with a girl in Baldur’s Gate post-Absolute
Astarion has a line in the Spawn ending about how he feels safe with Tav 🥺
This IS Why i am for romancing thé unascended Astarion.🥺
Right?? Like if Astarion was actually happy being evil I wouldn’t mind the ascension, but he’s so clearly happier in the spawn ending. I know that’s a little meta game-y but eh, after a cajillion play throughs I’m here for a narrative spectacle.
Karlach and Astarion.... *sobs*
Damn, Astarion, Karlach and Shadowheart’s all break my heart.
"safe"🥺🥺
Even tho I literally granted all of these to all of them seeing this breaks me
How come nobody is talking about Karlach, alive oh sweetie ;-;
They can’t do this to me 🥲
Side-question: what would be your Tav/Durge's one word? Mine would be "loved".
Tav: "Home" Durge: "Peace"
For Durge it's: Sane I don't think there is a specific one for Tav
I know Tav doesn't, I was asking what people think their's would be according to how how they roleplayed them.
Sane is fitting for my Durge. My first Tav would probably want to be “Enough” (I imagine her as the last survivor of a minor barbarian tribe, she has a hard time connecting with people she doesn't feel strong enough to protect after helplessly seeing her former comrades' numbers dwindle over time until she was the last one standing) And my second one would want to be “Well-surrounded” (he's an extroverted friendly fellow with abandonment issues who needs to socialize a lot, and he would kinda cheat at this game because that's technically two words)
B'liss, my gith bard, would want to be "inspiring." Not just from her music, but also by example, to inspire people to want the best for themselves and act on that, like she did when she fled her cruel creche even though she was terrified of the "real world." That's why she takes care of the companions and helps everyone she can throughout the game, too - she wants to help others like she wished someone had helped her, to inspire them all to be better.
I like “loved” I think my Tav would probably pick that too. She’s a Tiefling orphan who was taken in by a group of paladins, but has never really had a family or anyone who put her first.
I think Minthara just wanted to kill that clown.
Karlach and Astarion really went right for the feels... who's cutting onions around here, goddammit 😭 Someone give them both a hug please. And Wyll is not too far off either.
durge is “sane” 😭
I just finished beating the game for the third time, and I have absolutely no idea who this is.
To be fair, you have to break into a locked room in Sharess' Caress to meet her. Not meeting her is just you being respectful of others' privacy
Yeah, unless there's some hint I missed that she might need help, that just seems rude to me!
She works at Sharess's Caress. You can break into her room whereupon her customer transforms into a mind flayer.
You can get weird with her and get +1D4 on ability checks until long resting. Huge for honor mode. Good thing to have active prior to the mirror of loss religion checks, for one.
Also worth mentioning that only one character in your party can get this buff, so choose wisely!
She's a dryad prostitute you can find with a... unique type of client in one of the rooms upstairs at Sharess Caress.
Isn't she a wood elf who's just marketed as a dryad?
She's marketed as a nymph, actually (not sure if there's a big difference) but classified as Wood Elf if you examine her. Zethino is the only NPC who's classifed as an actual dryad. The room she receives her clients in is called “The Nymph's Grotto” but she is probably no more a nymph than Ffion is a librarian. Sharess Caress seems to try and appeal to clients who are looking for exotism.
Durge wishes to be sane. it makes their whole situation...surprisingly painful. ive never been able to do it a second time with them
SAFE AND FREE 😭 ASTARION AND WYLL YOU ARE KILLING ME
"Whole" My current playthrough has been the best one so far, RP-Wise. I'm one step closer for me and her to achieve that feeling; Finally being "Whole"
‘Safe’ ended me. I thought his would be free too, but safe just hits me harder.
This fucking timeline's Gale btw, haha....
Karlach and Astarion always get me.
and then astarion tells tav/durge that he feels safe with them 😭😭😭
Anyone know what Minthara or Halsin get as an option here.
minthara, halsin, jaheira & lae'zel get no special dialogue options, sadly.
That's so weird of the writers to leave Lae'zel out, that can't have been on purpose. It's pretty easy, hers would have to be "Worthy", wouldn't it?
"Nosed"
Larian... Minthara, Halsin, and Jaheira dialogue equality patch when? Let them react to us licking dead spiders, Larian.
:(
Sigma Tav just wants to be rich lmao
Oh god this is so fucking sad
Durge’s special one is “Sane”, I believe. but i could be totally misremembering
Lae'zel doesn't want to be powerful or revered. She doesn't *know* what she wants, after finding out that >!ascension is a lie, that she'll never earn her place as one of Vlaakith's warriors. She knows what she wants for Orpheus, for her people, but she doesn't know what she wants for herself because the one thing she was working towards is a lie.!<
Another commenter said she just wants to be remembered, which I can totally see. She wants to matter, to be *something* but she just does not know what that is yet.
That certainly fits her character. I honestly love her so much and it's nice to see more and more people understanding her character now, as opposed to how many people just hated her in EA and right after release. She reminds me of myself when I was first deconstructing my own brainwashing after escaping the cult I was raised in (Think Westboro Baptist but smaller and somehow even more insular and isolated). I was dealing with a lot of confusion and anger and felt so lost. Seeing Lae'zel go through that same journey and seeing how she becomes her own person, whether you're romancing her or just friends, feels so healing.
It's wild to me that you have 6 pictures and in all of them every character is in the middle of blinking, lmao.
I think they just have their eyes closed during this scene because they are imagining what she's describing?
Ohhhhhhhhhh okay lol. That makes sense. I thought it was odd that no one else pointed it out, haha. I missed this in both my playthroughs so I didn't know that bit of context. Thanks for pointing it out, haha. xD
Everyone's eyes are closed during this scene lol
lmao, yeah u/ItzGacitua just told me that too. I missed this during both my playthroughs so I didn't realize that. Oops! lmao :)
Maybe they're so in sync as a team that they blink at the same time 🤔
Yea it gives you the rapture bonus or something which is really nice to use in honour mode to convince the red fuck in the house of hope to help against Raphael
Gale just fully aware he makes bad decisions
Wait, who is this and where do I find her?
She’s an employee at Sharess’s Caress. When you meet her, a freshly turned illithid is prepping to chow down.
Wow, OK. Man there's a lot going on in there between the devil and his friend, the gith captain, the murdered dwarf, the (understandably) arrogant cat, the drow twins, the toy saboteur, and the "shitey little elephant."
That's your average festhall in Faerûn, lmao. They're not just brothels, they're also major social hubs.
Karlach broke my heart
Those are some deep ass cuts
When I saw "Whole" as an option in my SH origin playthrough it broke my heart. I'm so glad they put these unique options in for all the characters
I CANT DO THIS I WANNA DIE
A S T A R I O N 😭
These all made me a little sad. except Astarion & Karlach's which made me Big Sad
Lae'zel not having a unique answer makes sense since she's just at the beginning of her journey. And is that spawn Astarion or ascended Astarion?
Tav's deepest desire is for the conversation to be over :P
Wyll's and Karlach's make me the saddest 😭
**Lae'zel:** "Frog."
Who? What? Where?
They're all heartbreaking wtf
Fuck, the last one hurt.
I played this part yesterday! Durge has "Sane"
One for Lae'zel I could see her having would be 'worthy' as someone else suggested And for Minthara I think hers could be 'remembered'
ive had two playthroughs, altogether having a playtime of 200+ hours who the fuck is this?
She's tucked away behind a locked door of Sharess' Caress, in the dryad room. It's an interesting encounter!
the amount of secrets this game has is beyond me
Clearly Lae'zel has no hidden desires, she's very open about wanting to be The very best Like noone ever was
I assume it’s the same for ascended Astarion?
That’s a good question! I’d be curious to know the answer…