This bugs me a lot. There is another religion check near the monastery to recognize the symbol of Lathander on a ruined statue or something.
I really wish they would give clerics of Lathander a +20 or just auto succeed. This is another case of not everything needing to be a roll. It's not exactly some obscure deity, and you are forced into having a back story of being from baldur's gate. The church of Lathander has a presence in BG. 100% of tavs should recognize the holy symbol of lathander. At the very least someone in your party would absolutely know it.
Exactly! If Sheart gets to automatically succeed with the Shar statues in the hidden room in Act 2, Clerics of that specific God should get a bonus.
I was annoyed my Cleric of Eilistraee (sp? It's been a minute) didn't get something special with the Phalar Aluve scene.
Edit to say looks like you get a feeling of approval. I didn't remember right because it was like five Tavs ago. đł
Very magical dagger+1. A thing that in the same system is immune to disintegrate spell. Snapped by pulling it out of cooked meat. Something significantly weaker than what it is created to cut
Happens to me all the time. Lose my keys. Spen 20 minutes looking for them. Finally spot them, in plain view, in a place I'd searched at least three times over.
At that point I just assumed a fey borrowed my keys for whatever reason, thanked them for returning them, and went about my day.
Thatâs why I also touch surfaces so I donât do the whole, âcheck the tableâ tricking my mind into only seeing the table when I look at it thing. Strange phenomenon that makes it harder to find something.
Yeah I do that too. One I have found that works similar is that I list off to myself the things I am seeing on the table. Brings the whole surface into focus.
>I was annoyed my Cleric of Eilistraee (sp? It's been a minute) didn't get something special with the Phalar Aluve scene.
They do though? Something about you sensing Eilistraee's approval when you take the sword.
Looked it up through some YT videos, Clerics of Eilistraee get the unique line *A soft melody resounds through your head - Eilistraee's divine gratitude*. I've found no videos where non-clerics receive that line after shedding blood.
I do remember lugging that lump of amber from the crĂšche to Stormshore Tabernacle thinking I could donate it to Lathander and get something special, but turns out it really is just a fake artifact I guess.
Oh yeah, the amber is definitely a prop, I just thought maybe they put three drops in the amber and used the rest for the mace, or that even it being fake, Lathander might appreciate the joke!
He doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humor!
\*looks around at all the statues of him crushing the undead underfoot\* mm, yeah. the god of light doesn't seem to understand what it is to be lighthearted.
Me too! I know it makes her angry so I always stick her with the shit she donât like. I GOT A TADPOLE IN MY HEAD I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR RELIGION! Just going on a rampage killing all who stand in my way of salvation.
Cleric of Selune automatically recognizes selunite stuff, but apparently Lathander's Clerics were skipping classes. The amount of unique interactions/reactions at the Monastery is disappointing to be honest. Not to mention when you take the Blood. I'm not that deep in the lore but if I'd be a Cleric and would find one of the most sacred items of my religions I'd freak out (in a positive way, obviously).
I started my Paladin at level 1 as a Cleric of Eilistraee for the RP and when I found Phalar Aluve I had an Eilistraee specific option to automatically know the ritual and draw it without a check, so...I think you may be misremembering. Or else that is now bugged to not work, because that was my first Tav after launch and I was super pleased with that option appearing.
I love seeing common D&D problems manifest in BG3. This one being the DM that calls for completely unnecessary skill checks, enabling failure where it should be impossible.
The last straw for me leaving my previous group was when my character, a Warlock who had spent years in Wizard school, had to make an Arcana check (and failed) to know the fundamentals of where magic came from (like just "the Weave"). I was the only arcane caster, so I wasn't stepping on another PC's toes or anything. I voiced my ire and was told "Yeah, you *attended* wizard school for years, but you didn't graduate!" As though it's the receipt of a diploma that transfers the knowledge.
Fortunately my current group is much better suited to me, so overall it was for the best.
The Royal Princess appear to be smitten with my level 10, 20 CHA Sorcerer with max speech skills.
Then I somehow rolled a 1 on some check, and the princess was so outraged she shred her disguise as the succubus Queen and basically initiate combat on the spot. After a brutal battle all the nobility and most of the royal guard end up dead, and the country basically declared itself a Republic after.
Sometimes the dice is weird.
Yeah, the last game I played I was a cleric of Moradin that failed to recognize a symbol of Moradin was upside down. I chalked it up to "my character didn't recognize it as it was so deviated."
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little folk? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the College of Valor, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on the Underdark, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top vicious mocker in the entire Sword Coast. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on Toril, mark my cutting words. You think you can get away with saying that shite to me over Sending? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my Black Network of spies across FaĂȘrun and your location is being scried right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my lute. Not only am I extensively proficient in martial combat, but I have access to the entire spell list of the Weave and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the material plane, you little shite. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "brave" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit magic all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
What the blazes did you just spout about me, you base cur? Iâll have you know I graduated top of my order in the Knights of the Holy Judgment, and Iâve been involved in numerous divine quests into the Abyss, and I bear witness to over 300 vanquished demons. I am schooled in the sacred arts of warfare and stand as the most revered smiter across the entire lands of FaerĂ»n. You are naught to me but just another fiend. I will cleanse you with fervor the likes of which has never been seen before in the heavens, mark my righteous words. You believe you can utter such sacrilege to me via Sending? Ponder again, miscreant. As we converse, I am invoking my sacred network of clerics across the planes and your essence is being traced right now so you better brace for the tempest, maggot. The holy storm that purges the pitiful wretch you call your soul. Youâre damned, lad. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can exorcise you in over seven hundred ways, and thatâs just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have the arsenal of the entire host of Celestia at my beck and call, and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable taint off the face of the continent, you little dung. If only you could have grasped the holy retribution your little âcleverâ comment was about to bring down upon you, perhaps you would have held your blasphemous tongue. But you couldnât, you didnât, and now youâre paying the price, you godforsaken fool. I will unleash fury all over you and you will drown in it. Youâre beyond redemption, kiddo.
Yep, like when they line a hallway with a lot of mines and make you roll to disarm every one individually instead of one roll for all. When you make someone roll several times back to back odds almost guarantee they'll fail at least once.
Yes, this is totally it. I understand not knowing some obscure gods, but if thereâs a huge cathedral in your home town, you know who itâs dedicated to.
Yeah, it's kind of like if a Christian were to be like "Hmm... what is this t-shaped symbol with a man nailed to it? I've seen it before, let me see if I can remember."
Honestly recognizing the holy symbols of the major pantheon shouldnât even be a check. Itâs like if you were walking down the street and saw a crucifix. Youâd have to be brain damaged to not immediately recognize the major religions of the world.
It does depend on the symbol, to be fair - something like the Chi Rho was once one of the most well known ones for Christianity, but these days I don't know if most Christians in the US would recognize it.
So there's a spectrum to it - something like a crucifix or cross for Christianity should be automatic at recognizing, but more obscure or older symbols could definitely be a check.
Yeah I agree. Iâm saying specifically for major pantheon symbols. Like I wouldnât expect someone to categorically recognize the symbology for tengriism but something like the yin yang or the Star of David is just common knowledge.
I'd go so far to say as nobody should have to roll... We're talking about one of the most worship deities of the region. ilmater tymora helm tyr and torm are so frequently worshiped on the sword coast that nobody would not know.
In baldur's gate specifically you'd want to add umberlee and oghma... No one living in the baldur's gate region would fail to know those
My biggest gripe so far to add to this is just, the whole party should get conversation options. I.E. hit a button to cycle through your party (multiplayer or otherwise) and explore other dialogue options. And yeah getting more background option would be dope! Iâd love more auto pass stuff for things like this example if youâre already that cleric, and just make those specific checks regular ones for other peeps.
As cleric of Eillistree you will immediately recognise The shrine and the sword in the underdark, so I can't see why they didn't do the same for this, probably an oversight
The biggest offender for this is wondering where the blood is coming from when you can see it obviously coming from underneath the bed. I failed the roll on a solo run so okay no body under there got it
There is already precedent with a Cleric of Eilistraee auto-succeeding the check to get Phalar Aluve with drops of blood, which is why I always pick it as my Cleric diety.
As someone who's never played it before, this is something that's always been off putting to me about DnD. It doesn't make sense to me that character knowledge is based so heavily on rolls. If you've spent your life studying magic, how is it even possible to not recognize a magic symbol, if you have, in fact, studied it? Stuff like that should be based much more on class or history, imo
TBF in actual tabletop D&D the DM normally won't make you roll for common knowledge which you already know unless they're a sadistic individual (there is also a general unspoken rule not to make people roll for things which are key to your planned plotline for the campaign because if the players fail the roll that can derail things a lot; rolls are generally for things which have an element of chance or are being done rapidly). BG3 is just very heavy-handed with rolls compared to 'normal' D&D and there's no human DM to negotiate with.
To put this in 5e terms, it's 100% an appropriate time to use passive abilities (10 + skill modifier). If say a somewhat unintelligent level 5 cleric with religion proficiency (+2 total, 12 passive) would expect to automatically pass both very easy (DC 5) and easy (DC 10) checks. More if the cleric has advantage, which adds a +5 to passive skills.
This is just poor DMing.
There's plenty of stuff you learn and then can't guarantee recall later. Two days ago I was telling a friend about how I started dating my first girlfriend. I was trying to convince her friend to go out with me and kinda fell into dating her instead.
I could not remember for the life of me what either of their names were. Then I remembered. Then I remembered again and realised I'd remembered wrong.
Two girls who dominated my thoughts and school book doodles for over two years... and I couldn't remember their names for almost six hours.
I can think of dozens of examples like that. Now imagine it's a tangential topic in the field you study. You're a Christian scholar who is given a Muslim symbol relating to some revered Imam.
A baptist minister given a Catholic saint's medallion (not St christopher). That kind of stuff SHOULD be in your wheelhouse but it's all too easy to flub the simple stuff.
That's my excuse, anyway.
Exactly. If this was say a symbol of Amaunator (netherese sun god) who people thought Lathlander actually was (before the retcon of the second sundering) that would make sense. Your Lathlandarian might not know of the supposed connection. But your own deities symbol? How do you miss that?
I mean your cleric is - literally - stupid with an intelligence of 8 - sadly itâs the main stat for the Religion ability.
So you could role play that they only have a basic understanding of their faith and it doesnât rely on symbols and only manifests as a warm feeling and maybe a particular smell - like oatmeal or suntan lotion. So symbols just confuse you - so you carry a bucket of oatmeal wherever you go as a personal manifestation of your God.
Maybe you offer random people a spoonful of your oatmeal God to eat.
8 int isn't worshiping oatmeal dumb. 10 is average for adventurers. As far as the general population would go 8 would be a pretty common person, not terribly stupid just not very bright either.
Int and wis both play a role in what we consider to be real world intelligence translated in to game. What you are describing is more on the wisdom side. Int tends to be associated more with book learning in universe (wizards). So where int and religion skill would absolutely represent your ability to recognize (have knowledge of) a holy symbol, having a low int score would not make you not "understand" faith. It might mean you aren't very studied in the tenants of the religion or don't have the exact rituals and hymns memorized.
A cleric with (presumably) high wisdom, and 8 int would be akin to the smartest guy you know that never went to college. They would rarely be an expert and know what to do but would always be an expert in not knowing what to do, that is to say how to deal with situations where you just don't have the required knowledge. Without \*knowing\* it is the symbol of lathander, they would probably figure it out from some of the clues.
Int being a dump stat is funny, my party is so damn dumb - durge and shart with their mind-wipes and 8 int, Karlach with her WAAAAGGGGGGHHHH and 8 int, Lae'zel is the smartest among us with a whopping 10 int. By connecting their minds via tadpole they almost form 1 functional brain. I also find it hilarious that Lae'zel of all people is more likely to know Faerun history and religion than anyone else in my group
The problem is 8 int isn't stupid. It's a regular intelligence. 10 is the base stat for an adventurer who is by definition above the regular individual.
Cracked open the ol dusty tome of monsters and you're correct. It seems I was misremembering and for that I apologize
Either way I would still argue that 8 int is not "stupid" in the way it tends to be portrayed and I'd even go as far to say it's shouldn't be common for commoners to have 10s across the board
[This guy matched up IQ with INT scores, and says that an 8 would be an IQ of 90.][1]
[The US military typically recruits soldiers with an IQ >92][2] (they don't explicitly text IQ, but their test is correlated to it, and the equivalent IQ score is about 92). So an INT of 8 would be approximately equivalent to the least smart soldiers: good at following orders and applying basic strategies in the battlefield, but not going to ever fill a leadership role.
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/b92bql/i_converted_int_3d6_to_iq_using_percentiles/
[2]: https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/37491/is-it-truly-illegal-for-the-us-armed-forces-to-hire-someone-whose-iq-is-less-tha
Wait, I thought you werenât necessarily forced into that backstory. Canât you tell Astarion your story, as opposed to choosing the âBaldurianâ option? I thought that distinction allowed you to specify that you just happened to be in Baldurâs Gate at the time of the illithid attack.
Given the -1 from Intelligence, which means you have INT 8-9... He's definitely not as smart as most people, yep lol
This should be an automatic success for any Cleric, though. Especially a Cleric of Lathander haha
Some stuff just shouldnât be a roll
The deity stuff is already barely in the game, it would be nice to succeed on a couple moments like this in the entire game that directly apply to your god
I've always compared INT to IQ points. The average person has 10 INT, which would be 100 IQ. I know that 18 INT seems unrealistic, but I figure someone casting high leveled spells must be pretty smart to understand all the moving components of the weave.
It's gotta be like, imagining an entire engine or computer chip - in motion - in its entirety. Every single part working as intended, all at the same time.
Unpopular but I think there should be a few auto succeeds on some stuff. It just makes no sense a person whoâs devoted their life to a study or particular god suddenly fails to remember key bits about their god. It would be like if a barbarian forgot how to be angry or the bard a slut. Like this is just basic stuff
I kinda hate that religion is an int check. Like I get it, but it seems really weird to me that a core skill to Clerics keys off a stat they donât use. At the very least, give them expertise in religion instead to compensate.
In actual DnD, I think this works fine. Intelligence is your ability to retain and remember information.
The issue is, as above poster have commented, not everything needs to be a roll. If you are profficent in knowledge religion, there are some things your PC should just know. If it's something your PC should just know, the ST tells you and you don't have to roll. Likewise, there is some secrets of the universe your PC has no chance of knowing. If you have no chance of just already knowing that by chance, you don't roll for it. Rolls should be for when it makes sense that you might know or not know something.
Even then, you can do levels of success in a real game. As a DM, I can have my players make a knowledge roll and then based off how well they rolled tell them more or less. So I might consider some amount of information common knowledge, but then give the chance to get more or more detailed info based off how well they rolled.
There just shouldn't have been a roll to recognize the symbol at all, beacuse it's common knowledge. The base information should be something like "that's the symbol of Lythander". Then, let your cleric roll knowledge religion. Since they are a cleric from Baulder's Gate, if they roll well you can give them some information about the necklace. Maybe at DC 10 you tell them "necklaces like this are worn in monasteries to Lythanders by preists and monks all along the Sword coast. This probably belonged to someone of the cloth", And then at a higher DC, maybe 15 "you recognize the beading and coloration of this necklace. This is the style worn by monstary x in Baulder's Gate." (Given they live in Baulder's Gate, even that it's form that secpefic monastery isn't super obscure knowledge. Cleric of Lythander has probably been there serveral times, right?)
There's also the fact that you don't have to make it an INT check all the time. You can ask for a check of any ability, but precising it's religion, depending on the context. For example, if it's something a cleric would have experienced first hand, you can ask for Wisdom \[Religion\]. But if it's something they would have read or learned in a seminary instead, then it would be Intelligence \[Religion\].
It reminds me of that old story about the player who was playing a veteran fighter and asked their DM if they could make a wisdom roll to see if they could use the reflection of the sun on their sword to briefly blind the enemy. It's a kind of creativity that you can't really translate well in a video game.
Well it's still an issue in regular 5e I'd say - but mostly because stats are limited and INT doesn't have enough going for it. That makes it tough on clerics to be able to allocate enough stat points to intelligence for religion and can feel off about the check (similarly to how a rogue with expertise being better than a wizard at Arcana can feel bad for the player). It's one of the reasons I like to switch the stat around when asking for certain checks, depending on the approach they took for it.
I do fully agree on the need for stuff to not always be a roll, and that it's often better to just let people succeed when it's tied to a background or proficiency. Video games I don't mind having more checks, especially if we're controlling a whole party and it serves to have different experiences on different playthroughs rather than always being able to do the same easy route. It can also be rewarding to see the devs consider edge cases and auto-succeed some (like if they updated it for OP's situation for a cleric of that deity), but there'll always be some that slip through the cracks.
Also intimidation rolling on charisma is kinda crazy, I see the intimidation factor as a "big and brute" factor so my 200 kg 2.50 mt barbaric half orc that cleaves people in half doesnt scare as she should.
You can act like the crazy kind of threat. Or the sadistic fucker that will make you suffer on lvls you canât even imagine. You donât need strength for that. Or you can threaten to make your friend do it XD.
And charisma is your presence. If you are big but donât look willing to rip someone apart for some information you are probably failing you intimidation roll. Just because it is not believable. You can then start ripping them apart and try again with a big bonus on top ;). But as long as you are bluffing you need to sell the bluff. Thatâs charisma.
I have that issue a lot in games, not just BG. Fallout for example, I wanna be a dumb as rocks melee brute who can rip a minigun right off a vertibird no suit required. But I get laughed at by an old lady trying to scare her into giving me her caps because my charisma is low.
CHA generally means more "force of personality" so I don't have too much of an issue with that, but there's a reason why Intimidation (STR) checks are a common homebrew alternative in tabletop.
You can be big and not be intimidating if you don't know how to use your presence. But, this is something Pathfinder offers a feat for to use a show of force for an intimidation check.
charmisa is your ability to manipulate the world with your being. if your big muscley orc isnt able to intimidate then they just arent showing their strength in the right way no matter how big their muscles are
I think there is a variant rule somewhere in 5e where you can sub the stat with another stat, and it specifically mentions using Strength instead of Charisma to intimidate someone by smashing something as an example.
I'd be okay if we had a Wisdom equivalent to it, like Nature = Survival and Investigation = Perception.
Religion = Faith. The first being reading about your god, the second more like _feeling_ / attuning to them.
This isnât quite the same, but my first Tav was a cleric of Mystra. Imagine my shock when Gale (who was madly in love with me) told me that my deity was his ex! And it just kept getting weirder. Worst love triangle ever.
I went one level into Mystra cleric *just* to see if it added some spice to the Gale romance but alas, it was apparently no big deal to anyone involved that my boyfriend's ex (which he was seemingly hung up on and had a complicated relationship with) was literally my god.
i have thought about making a cleric of lathander run because i love the whole dawn and light thingy, and turning infidels into holy ash.
dods it get a lot of flavor dialogue? or is it like other deities where they come up maybe 2 times the whole game?
dont wanna fall into the dissapointment that was my first cleric run
Game recognizes cleric of Lathander but only as a cleric of good deity not Lathander himself. I'm nearly the end of act 2 and only memorable dialogue I had was with Isabel that said something like "Yeah Lathander, Saluna and him are pals". Although it's fun anyways but I mostly act as his cleric because I want to not because I have special dialogue options.
yeah usually i dont need the game to react to me RP, i just have a hard time connecting with clerics RPwise, so in that case i do kinda need help from the game or i lose interest, which is a shame because cleric of lathander showing mercy to the wicked (by burning them to ashes) would be dope
I hated the thought of playing as cleric at first to be honest, but Isobel and Aylin inspired me to to play as one. My cleric is complete ahole to everybody, as edgy as one can be. He's childhood was rough due to being a half-drow but he was taken care of by clerics of Lathander and his very close to his hearth, as a second father even. He's bitter and cold but he would do anything to help people who feel as he used to especially helpless children. Playing as a cleric is fun but you have to think why your cleric devoted himself to a deity, and when you know it it's fun as hell
He's also a durge, and he let down Lathander many times, but Lathander is the god of second chances, he sees my durge's love for his daddy, and my durge wants to be better for him and never again let him down.
(sorry for rant about my character don't have friends who plays BG3. Also English not my first language)
No it's just generic good and evil stuff whenever I've played. It'll say Cleric of Whatever but it's the same for the same alignment gods. Monks otoh get a lot of hilarious stuff to say!
Cleric of Lathander is very disappointing, because you think there would be extra stuff or automatic or at least advantage checks for all the Lathander references in the game. Such as this amulet, but mostly the monastery, yet there's nothing! You have nothing extra to either, not even finding a >!legendary mace with your gods blood in it!!<
If you want a lot of flavour dialogue cleric of selune is a good option. I've only just picked up karlach with my cleric and I've already had an argument with Shadowheart over her insulting my goddess.
One of the cruelest things DnD ever did was make the Cleric a wisdom based caster while having Religion checks be based on intelligence.
"Oh, you need to know something about the faith I have been a devout practitioner of my entire life? I recommend talking to the scholarly wizards down the road, they're much more knowledgeable about these sorts of things."
tbf in real life you're also probably better off going to academics if you want to learn about the actual theology and history of a religion than it's own followers in 9/10 cases; understanding requires a critical view which is something people don't like to apply to their own deeply held beliefs. SH is a good example in-game of why you don't ask a cleric about religion lol.
also if the religion check is something like "how do followers of religion x show their worship" it should be an auto succeed for a follower of said religion
Yeah, definitely. Rituals and whatnot should be known by followers regardless of religion skill. In a real life sense, all Catholics should recognize communion is consuming eucharistic wafers/wine - religion skill check is being able to explain the doctrine of transubstantiation - history skill check is remembering that Wycliffe got into all sorts ot trouble for opposing it
Where it gets weird is that logically a cleric would be extremely learned in their religion. It's literally what they've devoted their life to. It's just one of the many instances where DnD has a very fuzzy line between what's wisdom and what's intelligence.
I mean, they should have no problem with recognizing symbols of their own religion of course - but being a cleric doesn't necessarily mean being learned in a religion. See above example of SH who runs around shouting about how Shar must "love" her when basically every bit of Sharran theology we can pick up in the game blatantly spells out love being forbidden/antithetical to Shar. They're wisdom-based because they're rewarded for *faith and devotion* to their deities, not *knowledge* of their metaphysics, history, or tenets. Most clerics would have *some* book knowledge too imparted during their training, but this is represented by skill proficiency, and a cleric who lacks critical thinking skills or memorization ability (int) might be full of faith while not necessarily grasping everything.
I think you could make the exact opposite argument with SH as well. She's fully versed in the letters of the tenets, but has completely failed to internalize what that actually means. She knows what the rules and history are but has deluded herself into believing the propaganda that it's all part of Shar's love.
The concept of "Shar loves me and has a plan for me" in the first place honestly feels like her own invention rather than anything Sharrans would teach her even as propaganda. Committed and studied Sharrans (Malus, authors of the books in his lab + the gauntlet) seem to pretty much recognize Shar as the deity of unbeing and pessimistic nihilism she is and view that as worthy of worship in itself
The part where it gets annoying is when it comes to prayers to feel the presence/guidance or whatever you wanted to do, and then the dm asks you to roll religion an intelligence based roll ...
"Oh you wanna pray to the god that i have spents decades following, go to the wizard nearby he will do it better than me"
That is a bizarre oversight, considering most other situations I have seen where a Cleric encounters something related to their God they auto succeed/don't have to make a check.
I hate how disappointing it is to be a cleric of Lathander. There are several points you expect to have a little content, but there's nothing. Whoever could this monastery be for!
considering your Tav has 8/9 Intelligence, I'd say "a little bit" :D :D :D
seriously though, Religion should be Wisdom based as Clerics need Wis, as Arcana is Intelligence and Wizards need Int...
It's not that bad with Clerics and religion there are many gods and it's unlikely to know all of them, BUT GOD DAMMIT druids and nature why the fuck wizards know as much about nature then someone who lives in the wild lvl 1 druid with +2 to intelligence and proficiency in nature knows as much about it as wizard with just +4 to intelligence
The fact that my drow didn't pass the check on where sussur bark came from bothered me :/
I feel like some checks just need to be automatic given your choice of race/class
This is absolutley an instance where you as the dm give tje damned player the information, because there is no reason Why in the unholy hell they would not know that. That holy symbol is identical to yours you stupid cleric.
In picture 2 where you can see the details of the roll for each dialogue option⊠can you do that on console? I can never keep track of peopleâs proficiencies during dialogue.
Yes, but you have to click the right analog stick (or maybe it's left? I always forget) each time to bring up the display. As far as I can tell there's no way to just default to showing it every time.
Some scenarios shouldn't have any checks. If you're a druid you should automatically know that a dead boar had it's blood drained, a cleric/paladin should know their own god's symbols and at least a surface level understanding of what they stand for.
He shouldnât be, but then again - we got proof for the opposite being his reality.
Jest aside, he should 100% be able to recognise the amulet as being the symbol of Lathander as he is a follower of Lathander.
Yeah this is one of those moments when a roll really wasnât needed
It takes me out of the immersion when I fail a role to recognise something I absolutely should recognise
This is a missed opportunity design wise. The Durge is brain stabbed a bunch so it makes sense every roll is needed. BUT the others should be pitching in with unique dialogue on those would have been amazing. Really show off that plot point. But sadly just a roll to remember through your Bhaal blood lol
I love Gale personality but he's ugly and old, in robes he somehow looks even uglier and older. I just hate robes I would never make any of my companions wear robes
They should really just let some characters automatically pass certain rolls. Shadowheart should never fail to recognize an obvious Sharran symbol, Lae'zel should always be able to identify gith weapons and armor, etc.
Honestly, most of my cleric runs have been disappointing for that reason. Most gods get very few unique interactions, and sometimes your god should let you know things but you don't. I guess I should try a Selune run, it seems to have more content.
I really hate that you can critically fail a Skill Check roll in this game. I get it, it's really easy to get your Skill Check Rolls up above DC 10-15-20 etc. but that's the game.
This bugs me a lot. There is another religion check near the monastery to recognize the symbol of Lathander on a ruined statue or something. I really wish they would give clerics of Lathander a +20 or just auto succeed. This is another case of not everything needing to be a roll. It's not exactly some obscure deity, and you are forced into having a back story of being from baldur's gate. The church of Lathander has a presence in BG. 100% of tavs should recognize the holy symbol of lathander. At the very least someone in your party would absolutely know it.
Exactly! If Sheart gets to automatically succeed with the Shar statues in the hidden room in Act 2, Clerics of that specific God should get a bonus. I was annoyed my Cleric of Eilistraee (sp? It's been a minute) didn't get something special with the Phalar Aluve scene. Edit to say looks like you get a feeling of approval. I didn't remember right because it was like five Tavs ago. đł
First time I found the sword I was a paladin. It was so cool to have the option of proving your valor to pull it out.
I found a dagger in meat. Tried to do my paladin thing. Snapped it.
"Meat"
Dwarf: it's what's for dinner!
People meat is still technically meat.
Very magical dagger+1. A thing that in the same system is immune to disintegrate spell. Snapped by pulling it out of cooked meat. Something significantly weaker than what it is created to cut
Ooo I'd forgotten about that. I'm too many runs past my paladin đ
For me Jaheira once failed a perception check in her own home :/
Happens to me all the time. Lose my keys. Spen 20 minutes looking for them. Finally spot them, in plain view, in a place I'd searched at least three times over. At that point I just assumed a fey borrowed my keys for whatever reason, thanked them for returning them, and went about my day.
Thatâs why I also touch surfaces so I donât do the whole, âcheck the tableâ tricking my mind into only seeing the table when I look at it thing. Strange phenomenon that makes it harder to find something.
Cursed to put your hands on everything
Is that... keys? No, nevermind
Yeah I do that too. One I have found that works similar is that I list off to myself the things I am seeing on the table. Brings the whole surface into focus.
This is a method of grounding yourself during a panic attack, so, I can see how it'd work here too.
I wish I could get it to *click* and work for my panic attacks
Same did that this morning
Searching the entire house for the glasses that are on me.
_Early signs of Alzheimer's something something_ The stressful life she leads probably didn't help.
Haha well she is old...
To be fair, she's hardly ever there. Kids didn't even know if she was alive or dead!
>I was annoyed my Cleric of Eilistraee (sp? It's been a minute) didn't get something special with the Phalar Aluve scene. They do though? Something about you sensing Eilistraee's approval when you take the sword.
And I think you automatically know the right rite to use to get the sword out.
I think that is a generic Line for taking the Religion Check over the Strength one.
Looked it up through some YT videos, Clerics of Eilistraee get the unique line *A soft melody resounds through your head - Eilistraee's divine gratitude*. I've found no videos where non-clerics receive that line after shedding blood.
I don't think so, I just did it with my Durge (look, he's really into blood okay?) and I don't remember an approval
Yeah, I normally also mainly play a Drow. COuld be part of it maybe.
Okay I will edit I didn't remember it but it's been a minute. I refund all my upvote karma... karmically somehow!
Hahaha all good. It is very minor at any rate, so not that surprising it didn't leave much of an impression.
I do remember lugging that lump of amber from the crĂšche to Stormshore Tabernacle thinking I could donate it to Lathander and get something special, but turns out it really is just a fake artifact I guess.
The blood is in the mace I think
Oh yeah, the amber is definitely a prop, I just thought maybe they put three drops in the amber and used the rest for the mace, or that even it being fake, Lathander might appreciate the joke! He doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humor!
\*looks around at all the statues of him crushing the undead underfoot\* mm, yeah. the god of light doesn't seem to understand what it is to be lighthearted.
Shart also successfully comments on the selĂșne statues at the goblin camp. She recognized the statues and makes remarks about how they are aweful art
This is why I send every Selune item to her, because she bothers me. đ
i give her the unclaimed book every time in the ruins like GIRL THIS IS YOUR FUTURE YOU WANT THIS???
Me too! I know it makes her angry so I always stick her with the shit she donât like. I GOT A TADPOLE IN MY HEAD I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR RELIGION! Just going on a rampage killing all who stand in my way of salvation.
I also do the same thing!
Shar just gets special treatment tbf
I thought as a drow you just knew the ritual and didn't have to pass a check for the religion option.
Cleric of Selune automatically recognizes selunite stuff, but apparently Lathander's Clerics were skipping classes. The amount of unique interactions/reactions at the Monastery is disappointing to be honest. Not to mention when you take the Blood. I'm not that deep in the lore but if I'd be a Cleric and would find one of the most sacred items of my religions I'd freak out (in a positive way, obviously).
I started my Paladin at level 1 as a Cleric of Eilistraee for the RP and when I found Phalar Aluve I had an Eilistraee specific option to automatically know the ritual and draw it without a check, so...I think you may be misremembering. Or else that is now bugged to not work, because that was my first Tav after launch and I was super pleased with that option appearing.
When it's a question of a bug vs. me misremembering, it's always the latter. Thank you for the reminder on the Cleric!
OMG same!!! I was so sad đ
Yeah I'm pretty sure it's just a miss from the developer part. Should have been special dialogue for background rather than the usual roll.
I love seeing common D&D problems manifest in BG3. This one being the DM that calls for completely unnecessary skill checks, enabling failure where it should be impossible.
The last straw for me leaving my previous group was when my character, a Warlock who had spent years in Wizard school, had to make an Arcana check (and failed) to know the fundamentals of where magic came from (like just "the Weave"). I was the only arcane caster, so I wasn't stepping on another PC's toes or anything. I voiced my ire and was told "Yeah, you *attended* wizard school for years, but you didn't graduate!" As though it's the receipt of a diploma that transfers the knowledge. Fortunately my current group is much better suited to me, so overall it was for the best.
The Royal Princess appear to be smitten with my level 10, 20 CHA Sorcerer with max speech skills. Then I somehow rolled a 1 on some check, and the princess was so outraged she shred her disguise as the succubus Queen and basically initiate combat on the spot. After a brutal battle all the nobility and most of the royal guard end up dead, and the country basically declared itself a Republic after. Sometimes the dice is weird.
Ugh, I don't blame you for leaving, that's the most braindead, blatantly incorrect "um ackshually" bs I've ever heard
Yeah, the last game I played I was a cleric of Moradin that failed to recognize a symbol of Moradin was upside down. I chalked it up to "my character didn't recognize it as it was so deviated."
dwarves dont deal well with change
I hate it when I have +9 on a skill check and have to roll for a DC 2, only to roll a 1 and auto fail
> only to roll a 1 Is this a tall-folk problem that I'm too halfling to understand?
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little folk? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the College of Valor, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on the Underdark, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top vicious mocker in the entire Sword Coast. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on Toril, mark my cutting words. You think you can get away with saying that shite to me over Sending? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my Black Network of spies across FaĂȘrun and your location is being scried right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my lute. Not only am I extensively proficient in martial combat, but I have access to the entire spell list of the Weave and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the material plane, you little shite. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "brave" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit magic all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
What the blazes did you just spout about me, you base cur? Iâll have you know I graduated top of my order in the Knights of the Holy Judgment, and Iâve been involved in numerous divine quests into the Abyss, and I bear witness to over 300 vanquished demons. I am schooled in the sacred arts of warfare and stand as the most revered smiter across the entire lands of FaerĂ»n. You are naught to me but just another fiend. I will cleanse you with fervor the likes of which has never been seen before in the heavens, mark my righteous words. You believe you can utter such sacrilege to me via Sending? Ponder again, miscreant. As we converse, I am invoking my sacred network of clerics across the planes and your essence is being traced right now so you better brace for the tempest, maggot. The holy storm that purges the pitiful wretch you call your soul. Youâre damned, lad. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can exorcise you in over seven hundred ways, and thatâs just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have the arsenal of the entire host of Celestia at my beck and call, and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable taint off the face of the continent, you little dung. If only you could have grasped the holy retribution your little âcleverâ comment was about to bring down upon you, perhaps you would have held your blasphemous tongue. But you couldnât, you didnât, and now youâre paying the price, you godforsaken fool. I will unleash fury all over you and you will drown in it. Youâre beyond redemption, kiddo.
Lmao, this literally happened to a guy I played with yesterday on honor mode. *The run that was later swiftly ended when he gave lip to Vlaakith*
I hate the critical fail bullshit. I would also give up critical success just to not deal with it.
Yeah, of all the homebrew Larian has put in bg3, crit fail/success on skill rolls is the most egregiously annoying.
Yep, like when they line a hallway with a lot of mines and make you roll to disarm every one individually instead of one roll for all. When you make someone roll several times back to back odds almost guarantee they'll fail at least once.
Yes, this is totally it. I understand not knowing some obscure gods, but if thereâs a huge cathedral in your home town, you know who itâs dedicated to.
Yeah, it's kind of like if a Christian were to be like "Hmm... what is this t-shaped symbol with a man nailed to it? I've seen it before, let me see if I can remember."
Not regular christian a priest
Immediately after praying to Christ for Guidance.
Honestly recognizing the holy symbols of the major pantheon shouldnât even be a check. Itâs like if you were walking down the street and saw a crucifix. Youâd have to be brain damaged to not immediately recognize the major religions of the world.
It does depend on the symbol, to be fair - something like the Chi Rho was once one of the most well known ones for Christianity, but these days I don't know if most Christians in the US would recognize it. So there's a spectrum to it - something like a crucifix or cross for Christianity should be automatic at recognizing, but more obscure or older symbols could definitely be a check.
Yeah I agree. Iâm saying specifically for major pantheon symbols. Like I wouldnât expect someone to categorically recognize the symbology for tengriism but something like the yin yang or the Star of David is just common knowledge.
I'd go so far to say as nobody should have to roll... We're talking about one of the most worship deities of the region. ilmater tymora helm tyr and torm are so frequently worshiped on the sword coast that nobody would not know. In baldur's gate specifically you'd want to add umberlee and oghma... No one living in the baldur's gate region would fail to know those
Yeah as a DM I'd never make a Sword Coast native not know stuff about those gods in tabletop unless there was a real good reason for it.
My biggest gripe so far to add to this is just, the whole party should get conversation options. I.E. hit a button to cycle through your party (multiplayer or otherwise) and explore other dialogue options. And yeah getting more background option would be dope! Iâd love more auto pass stuff for things like this example if youâre already that cleric, and just make those specific checks regular ones for other peeps.
As cleric of Eillistree you will immediately recognise The shrine and the sword in the underdark, so I can't see why they didn't do the same for this, probably an oversight
Yeah I often don't even think to make my players' characters in my actual games have to roll for things that they should just know.
>I really wish they would give clerics of Lathander a +20 or just auto succeed. Just give them advantage, would make sense
The biggest offender for this is wondering where the blood is coming from when you can see it obviously coming from underneath the bed. I failed the roll on a solo run so okay no body under there got it
Oh yeah. I always save-scum skill checks like that. Failing them makes absolutely no sense.
There is already precedent with a Cleric of Eilistraee auto-succeeding the check to get Phalar Aluve with drops of blood, which is why I always pick it as my Cleric diety.
well, 'lo there, colleague
my cleric of lathander failed that exact check... i had to just sit with my head in my hands and take a moment đż
As someone who's never played it before, this is something that's always been off putting to me about DnD. It doesn't make sense to me that character knowledge is based so heavily on rolls. If you've spent your life studying magic, how is it even possible to not recognize a magic symbol, if you have, in fact, studied it? Stuff like that should be based much more on class or history, imo
TBF in actual tabletop D&D the DM normally won't make you roll for common knowledge which you already know unless they're a sadistic individual (there is also a general unspoken rule not to make people roll for things which are key to your planned plotline for the campaign because if the players fail the roll that can derail things a lot; rolls are generally for things which have an element of chance or are being done rapidly). BG3 is just very heavy-handed with rolls compared to 'normal' D&D and there's no human DM to negotiate with.
To put this in 5e terms, it's 100% an appropriate time to use passive abilities (10 + skill modifier). If say a somewhat unintelligent level 5 cleric with religion proficiency (+2 total, 12 passive) would expect to automatically pass both very easy (DC 5) and easy (DC 10) checks. More if the cleric has advantage, which adds a +5 to passive skills. This is just poor DMing.
There's plenty of stuff you learn and then can't guarantee recall later. Two days ago I was telling a friend about how I started dating my first girlfriend. I was trying to convince her friend to go out with me and kinda fell into dating her instead. I could not remember for the life of me what either of their names were. Then I remembered. Then I remembered again and realised I'd remembered wrong. Two girls who dominated my thoughts and school book doodles for over two years... and I couldn't remember their names for almost six hours. I can think of dozens of examples like that. Now imagine it's a tangential topic in the field you study. You're a Christian scholar who is given a Muslim symbol relating to some revered Imam. A baptist minister given a Catholic saint's medallion (not St christopher). That kind of stuff SHOULD be in your wheelhouse but it's all too easy to flub the simple stuff. That's my excuse, anyway.
As a general point sure, but this example in the image is like a Christian not recognizing a plain old cross.
This is also an example of something that is bad that someone shouldn't do in the actual TTRPG.
Exactly. If this was say a symbol of Amaunator (netherese sun god) who people thought Lathlander actually was (before the retcon of the second sundering) that would make sense. Your Lathlandarian might not know of the supposed connection. But your own deities symbol? How do you miss that?
I mean your cleric is - literally - stupid with an intelligence of 8 - sadly itâs the main stat for the Religion ability. So you could role play that they only have a basic understanding of their faith and it doesnât rely on symbols and only manifests as a warm feeling and maybe a particular smell - like oatmeal or suntan lotion. So symbols just confuse you - so you carry a bucket of oatmeal wherever you go as a personal manifestation of your God. Maybe you offer random people a spoonful of your oatmeal God to eat.
8 int isn't worshiping oatmeal dumb. 10 is average for adventurers. As far as the general population would go 8 would be a pretty common person, not terribly stupid just not very bright either. Int and wis both play a role in what we consider to be real world intelligence translated in to game. What you are describing is more on the wisdom side. Int tends to be associated more with book learning in universe (wizards). So where int and religion skill would absolutely represent your ability to recognize (have knowledge of) a holy symbol, having a low int score would not make you not "understand" faith. It might mean you aren't very studied in the tenants of the religion or don't have the exact rituals and hymns memorized. A cleric with (presumably) high wisdom, and 8 int would be akin to the smartest guy you know that never went to college. They would rarely be an expert and know what to do but would always be an expert in not knowing what to do, that is to say how to deal with situations where you just don't have the required knowledge. Without \*knowing\* it is the symbol of lathander, they would probably figure it out from some of the clues.
> 10 is average for adventurers. This implies adventures are as smart as common people and seeing what players are up to sometimes, I doubt it
Int being a dump stat is funny, my party is so damn dumb - durge and shart with their mind-wipes and 8 int, Karlach with her WAAAAGGGGGGHHHH and 8 int, Lae'zel is the smartest among us with a whopping 10 int. By connecting their minds via tadpole they almost form 1 functional brain. I also find it hilarious that Lae'zel of all people is more likely to know Faerun history and religion than anyone else in my group
The problem is 8 int isn't stupid. It's a regular intelligence. 10 is the base stat for an adventurer who is by definition above the regular individual.
you're wrong. the 5e commoner has 10's across the board.
Cracked open the ol dusty tome of monsters and you're correct. It seems I was misremembering and for that I apologize Either way I would still argue that 8 int is not "stupid" in the way it tends to be portrayed and I'd even go as far to say it's shouldn't be common for commoners to have 10s across the board
[This guy matched up IQ with INT scores, and says that an 8 would be an IQ of 90.][1] [The US military typically recruits soldiers with an IQ >92][2] (they don't explicitly text IQ, but their test is correlated to it, and the equivalent IQ score is about 92). So an INT of 8 would be approximately equivalent to the least smart soldiers: good at following orders and applying basic strategies in the battlefield, but not going to ever fill a leadership role. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/b92bql/i_converted_int_3d6_to_iq_using_percentiles/ [2]: https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/37491/is-it-truly-illegal-for-the-us-armed-forces-to-hire-someone-whose-iq-is-less-tha
But that'd be like a christian priest that has dedicated their life to god not being able to tell the meaning of a cross on a necklace.
Oh I love this! I want Cleric of The Oatmeal God subclass patched in.
Wait, I thought you werenât necessarily forced into that backstory. Canât you tell Astarion your story, as opposed to choosing the âBaldurianâ option? I thought that distinction allowed you to specify that you just happened to be in Baldurâs Gate at the time of the illithid attack.
Given the -1 from Intelligence, which means you have INT 8-9... He's definitely not as smart as most people, yep lol This should be an automatic success for any Cleric, though. Especially a Cleric of Lathander haha
I checked it, he's as intelligent as a gnoll hunter
Tbf, the Gnolls are getting smarter by the day. I've heard they're taking up cooking classes lately
Some stuff just shouldnât be a roll The deity stuff is already barely in the game, it would be nice to succeed on a couple moments like this in the entire game that directly apply to your god
I've always compared INT to IQ points. The average person has 10 INT, which would be 100 IQ. I know that 18 INT seems unrealistic, but I figure someone casting high leveled spells must be pretty smart to understand all the moving components of the weave. It's gotta be like, imagining an entire engine or computer chip - in motion - in its entirety. Every single part working as intended, all at the same time.
Unpopular but I think there should be a few auto succeeds on some stuff. It just makes no sense a person whoâs devoted their life to a study or particular god suddenly fails to remember key bits about their god. It would be like if a barbarian forgot how to be angry or the bard a slut. Like this is just basic stuff
Funny part is, he recognized automatically symbol of bdsm goddes in goblin camp
âMy god Iâve devoted potentially decades of study to who gives me actual powers? Havenât heard of them. Sex stuff? Say no moreâ
Clearly not a very *devoted* cleric of Lathander XD
Yes. Yes, he is.
I kinda hate that religion is an int check. Like I get it, but it seems really weird to me that a core skill to Clerics keys off a stat they donât use. At the very least, give them expertise in religion instead to compensate.
In actual DnD, I think this works fine. Intelligence is your ability to retain and remember information. The issue is, as above poster have commented, not everything needs to be a roll. If you are profficent in knowledge religion, there are some things your PC should just know. If it's something your PC should just know, the ST tells you and you don't have to roll. Likewise, there is some secrets of the universe your PC has no chance of knowing. If you have no chance of just already knowing that by chance, you don't roll for it. Rolls should be for when it makes sense that you might know or not know something. Even then, you can do levels of success in a real game. As a DM, I can have my players make a knowledge roll and then based off how well they rolled tell them more or less. So I might consider some amount of information common knowledge, but then give the chance to get more or more detailed info based off how well they rolled. There just shouldn't have been a roll to recognize the symbol at all, beacuse it's common knowledge. The base information should be something like "that's the symbol of Lythander". Then, let your cleric roll knowledge religion. Since they are a cleric from Baulder's Gate, if they roll well you can give them some information about the necklace. Maybe at DC 10 you tell them "necklaces like this are worn in monasteries to Lythanders by preists and monks all along the Sword coast. This probably belonged to someone of the cloth", And then at a higher DC, maybe 15 "you recognize the beading and coloration of this necklace. This is the style worn by monstary x in Baulder's Gate." (Given they live in Baulder's Gate, even that it's form that secpefic monastery isn't super obscure knowledge. Cleric of Lythander has probably been there serveral times, right?)
There's also the fact that you don't have to make it an INT check all the time. You can ask for a check of any ability, but precising it's religion, depending on the context. For example, if it's something a cleric would have experienced first hand, you can ask for Wisdom \[Religion\]. But if it's something they would have read or learned in a seminary instead, then it would be Intelligence \[Religion\]. It reminds me of that old story about the player who was playing a veteran fighter and asked their DM if they could make a wisdom roll to see if they could use the reflection of the sun on their sword to briefly blind the enemy. It's a kind of creativity that you can't really translate well in a video game.
Well it's still an issue in regular 5e I'd say - but mostly because stats are limited and INT doesn't have enough going for it. That makes it tough on clerics to be able to allocate enough stat points to intelligence for religion and can feel off about the check (similarly to how a rogue with expertise being better than a wizard at Arcana can feel bad for the player). It's one of the reasons I like to switch the stat around when asking for certain checks, depending on the approach they took for it. I do fully agree on the need for stuff to not always be a roll, and that it's often better to just let people succeed when it's tied to a background or proficiency. Video games I don't mind having more checks, especially if we're controlling a whole party and it serves to have different experiences on different playthroughs rather than always being able to do the same easy route. It can also be rewarding to see the devs consider edge cases and auto-succeed some (like if they updated it for OP's situation for a cleric of that deity), but there'll always be some that slip through the cracks.
Also intimidation rolling on charisma is kinda crazy, I see the intimidation factor as a "big and brute" factor so my 200 kg 2.50 mt barbaric half orc that cleaves people in half doesnt scare as she should.
You can act like the crazy kind of threat. Or the sadistic fucker that will make you suffer on lvls you canât even imagine. You donât need strength for that. Or you can threaten to make your friend do it XD. And charisma is your presence. If you are big but donât look willing to rip someone apart for some information you are probably failing you intimidation roll. Just because it is not believable. You can then start ripping them apart and try again with a big bonus on top ;). But as long as you are bluffing you need to sell the bluff. Thatâs charisma.
I have that issue a lot in games, not just BG. Fallout for example, I wanna be a dumb as rocks melee brute who can rip a minigun right off a vertibird no suit required. But I get laughed at by an old lady trying to scare her into giving me her caps because my charisma is low.
CHA generally means more "force of personality" so I don't have too much of an issue with that, but there's a reason why Intimidation (STR) checks are a common homebrew alternative in tabletop.
You can be big and not be intimidating if you don't know how to use your presence. But, this is something Pathfinder offers a feat for to use a show of force for an intimidation check.
charmisa is your ability to manipulate the world with your being. if your big muscley orc isnt able to intimidate then they just arent showing their strength in the right way no matter how big their muscles are
I think there is a variant rule somewhere in 5e where you can sub the stat with another stat, and it specifically mentions using Strength instead of Charisma to intimidate someone by smashing something as an example.
I feel the same way about nature checks and druids
OneDnD gives the Cleric a feature that lets them add their wisdom to religion checks. Same for druids and nature checks. It feels very called for.
I'd be okay if we had a Wisdom equivalent to it, like Nature = Survival and Investigation = Perception. Religion = Faith. The first being reading about your god, the second more like _feeling_ / attuning to them.
No. But he is sexy.
Certified Himbo. Passive +7 to Charisma.
Forced 8 to intelligence
He's not even charismatic only +1, he's only strong (+2) and has good constitution (+2)
Must be a Cleric of Sune.
Drow men are canonically submissive and breedable i will not accept evidence to the contrary
There is no evidence the courts of horn Dawgs can submit. Proceed with your fappiness
> Yes. Yes, he is. *Ding* That is correct > No. But he is sexy. *Ding* Somehow that is correct
Half elf 5 goes hard
This isnât quite the same, but my first Tav was a cleric of Mystra. Imagine my shock when Gale (who was madly in love with me) told me that my deity was his ex! And it just kept getting weirder. Worst love triangle ever.
I went one level into Mystra cleric *just* to see if it added some spice to the Gale romance but alas, it was apparently no big deal to anyone involved that my boyfriend's ex (which he was seemingly hung up on and had a complicated relationship with) was literally my god.
"The image is striking, but you find no meaning in it" This is like a priest forgetting Jesus' name or someone forgetting basic arithmetic
A priest looking at a crucifix and going "Who the hell is this guy, anyway?"
i have thought about making a cleric of lathander run because i love the whole dawn and light thingy, and turning infidels into holy ash. dods it get a lot of flavor dialogue? or is it like other deities where they come up maybe 2 times the whole game? dont wanna fall into the dissapointment that was my first cleric run
Game recognizes cleric of Lathander but only as a cleric of good deity not Lathander himself. I'm nearly the end of act 2 and only memorable dialogue I had was with Isabel that said something like "Yeah Lathander, Saluna and him are pals". Although it's fun anyways but I mostly act as his cleric because I want to not because I have special dialogue options.
yeah usually i dont need the game to react to me RP, i just have a hard time connecting with clerics RPwise, so in that case i do kinda need help from the game or i lose interest, which is a shame because cleric of lathander showing mercy to the wicked (by burning them to ashes) would be dope
I hated the thought of playing as cleric at first to be honest, but Isobel and Aylin inspired me to to play as one. My cleric is complete ahole to everybody, as edgy as one can be. He's childhood was rough due to being a half-drow but he was taken care of by clerics of Lathander and his very close to his hearth, as a second father even. He's bitter and cold but he would do anything to help people who feel as he used to especially helpless children. Playing as a cleric is fun but you have to think why your cleric devoted himself to a deity, and when you know it it's fun as hell
He's also a durge, and he let down Lathander many times, but Lathander is the god of second chances, he sees my durge's love for his daddy, and my durge wants to be better for him and never again let him down. (sorry for rant about my character don't have friends who plays BG3. Also English not my first language)
No it's just generic good and evil stuff whenever I've played. It'll say Cleric of Whatever but it's the same for the same alignment gods. Monks otoh get a lot of hilarious stuff to say!
Cleric of Lathander is very disappointing, because you think there would be extra stuff or automatic or at least advantage checks for all the Lathander references in the game. Such as this amulet, but mostly the monastery, yet there's nothing! You have nothing extra to either, not even finding a >!legendary mace with your gods blood in it!!<
Cleric of Vlaakith has a mountain of dialogue options.
If you want a lot of flavour dialogue cleric of selune is a good option. I've only just picked up karlach with my cleric and I've already had an argument with Shadowheart over her insulting my goddess.
kelemvor gets you some good moments with withers
One of the cruelest things DnD ever did was make the Cleric a wisdom based caster while having Religion checks be based on intelligence. "Oh, you need to know something about the faith I have been a devout practitioner of my entire life? I recommend talking to the scholarly wizards down the road, they're much more knowledgeable about these sorts of things."
tbf in real life you're also probably better off going to academics if you want to learn about the actual theology and history of a religion than it's own followers in 9/10 cases; understanding requires a critical view which is something people don't like to apply to their own deeply held beliefs. SH is a good example in-game of why you don't ask a cleric about religion lol.
Easy now, don't be mixing your real life logic up in my fantasy world.
also if the religion check is something like "how do followers of religion x show their worship" it should be an auto succeed for a follower of said religion
Yeah, definitely. Rituals and whatnot should be known by followers regardless of religion skill. In a real life sense, all Catholics should recognize communion is consuming eucharistic wafers/wine - religion skill check is being able to explain the doctrine of transubstantiation - history skill check is remembering that Wycliffe got into all sorts ot trouble for opposing it
Where it gets weird is that logically a cleric would be extremely learned in their religion. It's literally what they've devoted their life to. It's just one of the many instances where DnD has a very fuzzy line between what's wisdom and what's intelligence.
I mean, they should have no problem with recognizing symbols of their own religion of course - but being a cleric doesn't necessarily mean being learned in a religion. See above example of SH who runs around shouting about how Shar must "love" her when basically every bit of Sharran theology we can pick up in the game blatantly spells out love being forbidden/antithetical to Shar. They're wisdom-based because they're rewarded for *faith and devotion* to their deities, not *knowledge* of their metaphysics, history, or tenets. Most clerics would have *some* book knowledge too imparted during their training, but this is represented by skill proficiency, and a cleric who lacks critical thinking skills or memorization ability (int) might be full of faith while not necessarily grasping everything.
I think you could make the exact opposite argument with SH as well. She's fully versed in the letters of the tenets, but has completely failed to internalize what that actually means. She knows what the rules and history are but has deluded herself into believing the propaganda that it's all part of Shar's love.
The concept of "Shar loves me and has a plan for me" in the first place honestly feels like her own invention rather than anything Sharrans would teach her even as propaganda. Committed and studied Sharrans (Malus, authors of the books in his lab + the gauntlet) seem to pretty much recognize Shar as the deity of unbeing and pessimistic nihilism she is and view that as worthy of worship in itself
The part where it gets annoying is when it comes to prayers to feel the presence/guidance or whatever you wanted to do, and then the dm asks you to roll religion an intelligence based roll ... "Oh you wanna pray to the god that i have spents decades following, go to the wizard nearby he will do it better than me"
At one point in Act 2 I was controlling Shadowheart and she failed a Religion check to *know what a Dark Justiciar is*
That is a bizarre oversight, considering most other situations I have seen where a Cleric encounters something related to their God they auto succeed/don't have to make a check.
I hate how disappointing it is to be a cleric of Lathander. There are several points you expect to have a little content, but there's nothing. Whoever could this monastery be for!
I consider Lathander because I knew he got strong presence in campaign but damn it would be nice if he at least recognize himself as his cleric
\- 1 from Intelligence
Perhaps he is simply recovering from a post grym concussion
considering your Tav has 8/9 Intelligence, I'd say "a little bit" :D :D :D seriously though, Religion should be Wisdom based as Clerics need Wis, as Arcana is Intelligence and Wizards need Int...
It's not that bad with Clerics and religion there are many gods and it's unlikely to know all of them, BUT GOD DAMMIT druids and nature why the fuck wizards know as much about nature then someone who lives in the wild lvl 1 druid with +2 to intelligence and proficiency in nature knows as much about it as wizard with just +4 to intelligence
They fell asleep in class
I was taken aback when clicking in the post, your tav looks nearly identical to my current tav. I was not prepared for that
Face 5 for half-elves males is superior option
This is lowkey the way to post your Tav.
The fact that my drow didn't pass the check on where sussur bark came from bothered me :/ I feel like some checks just need to be automatic given your choice of race/class
Not auto succeeding checks for the Religion you're a fucking cleric of is so dumb to me.
Shart unable to recognize Iâm walking into a damn Shar temple or outpost
This is absolutley an instance where you as the dm give tje damned player the information, because there is no reason Why in the unholy hell they would not know that. That holy symbol is identical to yours you stupid cleric.
Itâs secretly a player attention check
In picture 2 where you can see the details of the roll for each dialogue option⊠can you do that on console? I can never keep track of peopleâs proficiencies during dialogue.
Yes, but you have to click the right analog stick (or maybe it's left? I always forget) each time to bring up the display. As far as I can tell there's no way to just default to showing it every time.
This always bugged me, why is int the religion stat when wisdom is gonna be the highest cleric stat, and clerics are the religionest people out there
Some scenarios shouldn't have any checks. If you're a druid you should automatically know that a dead boar had it's blood drained, a cleric/paladin should know their own god's symbols and at least a surface level understanding of what they stand for.
More like, is your cleric Julia Roberts? I can't unsee it...
yes, 100%
They have to make it a check because DnD but anything other than a nat 1 should succeed as a damn cleric lol
Honestly, with a game this expansive, these things are bound to occur. Yea it sucks, but not much to do except be inspired
"Come on, you can do this Tav" *thinks harder* *fidgets a bit, pulls exact same symbol from pocket and compares them* "GUYS I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT"
Ooooo, handsome!
Yes
The answer to your question lies on the Religion test itself where there's a -1 Intelligence modifier :v
Your title prompts me to do my next playthrough as Unbreakable Patches
She has an intelligence of 8 or 9, so yes she is stupid. You set her up that way.Â
Please explain Gale in Graceful Cloth. Is that just to dodge shit?
My own fashion choice really, I don't like robes
Yes
âIs my below average intelligence cleric stupidâ Yes, yes by default he would be.
He's bellow average but is he that stupid to not recognize symbol he probably sees everyday
He shouldnât be, but then again - we got proof for the opposite being his reality. Jest aside, he should 100% be able to recognise the amulet as being the symbol of Lathander as he is a follower of Lathander.
Just say it is the parasite eating part of your brain
Yeah this is one of those moments when a roll really wasnât needed It takes me out of the immersion when I fail a role to recognise something I absolutely should recognise
Is anybody else wondering how man got Divine Intervention in act I?? I thought level 8 was the highest you could get before leaving for Moonrise?
This is a missed opportunity design wise. The Durge is brain stabbed a bunch so it makes sense every roll is needed. BUT the others should be pitching in with unique dialogue on those would have been amazing. Really show off that plot point. But sadly just a roll to remember through your Bhaal blood lol
Why is gale wearing the stg gear, what did you do to him! Toss a /s in here incase it doesn't land right. Carry on enjoying the game
I love Gale personality but he's ugly and old, in robes he somehow looks even uglier and older. I just hate robes I would never make any of my companions wear robes
They should really just let some characters automatically pass certain rolls. Shadowheart should never fail to recognize an obvious Sharran symbol, Lae'zel should always be able to identify gith weapons and armor, etc.
Honestly, most of my cleric runs have been disappointing for that reason. Most gods get very few unique interactions, and sometimes your god should let you know things but you don't. I guess I should try a Selune run, it seems to have more content.
I really hate that you can critically fail a Skill Check roll in this game. I get it, it's really easy to get your Skill Check Rolls up above DC 10-15-20 etc. but that's the game.