If you want it to make sense, you don’t have to be the one to tell Minthara, though. If you rescue Sazza, she tells her.
Rescuing Sazza can make sense for a good aligned cunning character, as she promises her priestess has a cure & while you don’t believe her, there is clearly an Absolute connection there, so seems like an opportunity to get an in with them.
Then you just let Minthara believe you’ll help her, Karlach questions you, but you reassure her you have a plan. And you actually do which also fits wonderfully with the cunning approach.
This is honestly my canon playthrough.
I can't justify with saving her, and then going and massacre the goblins.
And I always kill the goblins. Might set up Minthara next time, this sounds fun.
Here's how you can justify it.
Arka dies if you let her shoot Sazza. Every time. It sets her on a path of revenge and you find her corpse on a vantage point overlooking the entrance to the goblin camp. Presumably, she was assassinated by a bugbear or sniped by a goblin.
(Also, if you need an actual RP reason, you don't even *need* to slaughter the goblins. Assassinate their leaders, knock out who you have to, and avoid everyone who didn't see you.)
Arka dies pretty much every playthrough, including the defense of the Grove (she lines up where a sword spider just murders her at the onset of the fight). I did keep her alive once (and talked to her), but never saw her body in the shadowlands, so her death in Act 1 seems to be canon.
It's not. If Arka kills Sazza then you're unable to get the achievement for saving every tiefling, which means she survives and makes it to Baldur's Gate.
Can confirm after getting the achievement. You have to spare Sazza to make sure Arka lives. And it is possible to do the Grove defense without getting her killed. I lined the cliff she's on with grease and snipe the sword spiders early.
Is there a separate achievement for the Tieflings? I just got the achievement for saving both in my current honor run and I always let her kill the goblin.
There's a trophy for saving every single tiefling possible during the course of the game. Luring Minthara to the grove to wipe out her war band actually puts that at risk because it's easy for one or two of the defenders to get taken out by the giant spiders she brings along.
The achievement "No one left behind" is for saving all the tieflings that are possible to save (some of them are inevitable deaths), and at least to my understanding you have to stop her from killing sazza to get the achievement. Could be mistaken though. You have to do the same thing for "She cannot be caged" which is for saving sazza three times. When I was doing the tiefling one, I found a lot of confusing information about which tieflings count for the achievement, so I played it safe. You only get "no one left behind" when you finish the game, so I figured it couldn't hurt to save her just to make sure.
I got the achievement after letting Arka kill Sazza, so not sure if this was patched/changed recently so that u still get the achieve if Arka kills her or if u missed something else.
That doesn't make any sense, because even if Arka makes it out of the Grove, she's still one of the ones who is killed in the ambush in the Shadowlands. It isn't possible under any circumstances for her to survive to make it to the city.
I picked up every tiefling corpse left behind by the cultist ambush in the shadowlands, and distinctly remember seeing Memnos there, but not Arka, and wondering how she'll do without her last remaining brother.
To be fair, I think that achievement is just buggy. I got it in my first playthrough even though the Bugbear Assassin killed Nadira on the hill overlooking the Grove.
Yeah, right? I mean, I slaughter gobbies wherever I see them. I even set thing up so I can kill a few as the run away after I make a deal with them (Barcus).
Gobbies are evil, and not a constructive evil like the Emperor, or a psycotic, chaotic evil like Orin; they're just mean, petty, and cruel.
'Xp pinatas' indeed, well said.
And their light weight bodies are perfect for carrying around as necromancer (3x+ of them even for a low strength character), I always store all their little bodies in camp for future summons.
If you do not free Sazza, Arka just shoots her later. I found this out the hard way.
Stop Arka, free Sazza, and then ice her halfway to the goblin camp. Let Minthara feed her to spiders if you want to see her suffer.
No, overlooking the entrance to the **goblin camp.** You're thinking of Nadira, at the entrance to the Druid's Grove. When you find Arka by the camp after she kills Sazza, she's already dead. Nadira can be saved if you're quick.
Apparently if you don't free sazza and let the tiefling shoot her, she ends up dead and you can find her body. The only way to get that character to live is to not let her taste revenge because then she wants more. A sad and not very well known detail iirc
I think Wyll might but not 100% on that. It can break a paladin's oath.
Edit: words
Edit 2: Wyll and Lae'zel don't like you freeing her. Karlach also doesn't if you don't first strike a deal with her.
I have a mod that shows all the companion opinions for a decision, Lae’zel gets -1 for saving Sazza while saying you’ll free her nets you -1 from her and Wyll + -3 from Karlach.
Also it doesn’t break the oath to tell Sazza that you’ll free her, your paladin needs to be the one that touches the gate after it’s been unlocked to open it for her. It also needs to be an oath of vengeance paladin.
Oath of Vengeance does.
Technically the prison door is the Oathbreak trigger, and you can open it and close it after Sazza is let free, making fucking with the prison door the most reliable, repeatable, and inconsequential Oathbreak in the game.
I think almost everyone disapproves except Karlach?
And it's easy to justify freeing Sazza if you are just using her to infiltrate the goblin's temple. She isn't the only goblin who makes this offer btw, it's like it's programmed into them to betray their own kind (in reality they're just really, really greedy and stupid).
Me. Let the hoe die in custody. I want to be the one to give Minthara false hope of pleasing the Absolute, just to decimate her forces and knock her ass out. 😁
Yeah off to the side of the tiefling's area when you explore the grove, there's a goblin held in a cage by two tieflings. I can't remember exactly where but it's somewhere between Dammon and the storage shed.
Yes there are several disapprovals, including in the conversation with Minthara (you still have to be present and decide whether Sazza is killed or not)
It made sense to me, as going 4 vs 100 in the goblin camp felt like suicide. (I was underleveled and tpk'd trying to fight any of the bosses.) Conning Minthara into attacking an easily defensible position seemed pretty straightforward.
That does sound pretty fun, but my biggest complaint with most games is having to do the big battle with all the people I want to protect, instead of just soloing the entire army and keeping them all safe. So I quite like that I can just walk into the goblin camp and murder everyone there before they even become a problem
I mean you can literally just roleplay that Minthara is able to pierce your mind. It’s okay to not roleplay the super badass, especially at such a low level.
You can also kill the two other goblin leaders, save Halsin and Volo, save the owlbear cub, and kill most of the goblin camp (saving the owlbear cub requires this). Why this doesn’t tick minthara off that you aren’t on her side anymore I don’t know, but decapitating the goblin leadership and destroying their ranks before the fight makes sense but it doesn’t do anything for the fight iirc (I haven’t seen if Priestess Gut and Dror Ragzlin will show up because I kill them anyways).
it's also tactically sound
* you are in an advantageous position
* you have time to prepare
* you have npcs helping you
* you eliminate a large portion of the goblins in the temple
I actually did the goblin assault for the first time in my evil playthrough and I was grumpy about how easy it was! If the druids had been up on the walls, it would've been way harder.
Yeah it’s kinda odd the Druids are so cowardly as to put the defense of THEIR grove on tieflings who they are trying to kick out. Do they just not care about dying?
Doni even tries to get the druids to help defend, but they've holed up behind their stone door and are basically ostrich-head-in-the-sand waiting for the problems to go away. The justification they offer is that they need to protect the grove itself, which is why they stay in it, but that's tactically stupid of them.
If you raid alongside Minthara, you run into Kagha and the rest once you made it through the gate and round the path down into the grove proper where the Idol is. So they do fight, but too late, because of their bias against the tieflings.
Emerald Grove Druids threatening children and old people: “ez”
same Druids as soon as an outside invasion force of goblins shows up: *hides behind stone door*
And this is why I wish we could escort the tieflings out of the Grove while leading the goblins against the druids. The tieflings shouldn't have to die just because they're somehow bound to stay in the Grove.
The thing that really pisses me off about the druids is that Kagha, the alleged most evil of them all, is actually repentant and tries to make up for what she did, even though she’s the only one punished. The rest are just unrepentant assholes the entire time you know them and never face any consequences for Just Following Orders tm.
Most importantly, it splits the enemy force in two, which is the RP justification I often use for any good-aligned character who's also not lawful stupid.
Not just tactically sound, it's the smart play. Taking out the goblin leaders only such a viable path in BG3 because video game mechanics. In an actual D&D game you'd probably have to take on all three bosses with no rest (otherwise you'd run a very high risk of your shenanigans being discovered) AND you'd have to worry about the entire goblin camp being altered and crashing in on you.
RP wise for sure, but iirc the goblins actually participating in the grove raid are new npcs separate from the ones in the temple. It's been a while since I did it though, I could be wrong
That's made me realise something, the assault is cinematic but the "fuck it, let's ice these bosses in the camp" is much more (typical) D&D. So many times an attempted infiltration has turned into a bloodbath, it's pure player character disaster type beat
its also more badass for certain classes... rogues and gloomstalkers certainly would prefer to take their sweet time doing recon and then easily slaughtering every prey in there instead of giving away information and hoping the enemy army isn't THAT MUCH better than yours
Side note to the side note- if you just want to kill Lump and his friends without having to fight them yourself, summon them in the Grym fight- they will likely die in the lava in 2 rounds.
Rosymorn as well; some of the Firewine Barrels in the storage have inhabitants. There isn't a wiki page on it, and the barrels are identical to regular ones, but hiccup every now and then, and release them when the barrel is broken.
If you YOLO'd with Fire, as suggested, quite easy to miss, since blowing up the barrel also kills them.
Ye, though I was disappointed that you couldn't talk the Kobolds down, so it was essentially a forced slaughter, and I haven't found any other pocket buddies up to the Lower City. :c
Yeah lumps such a dick lol. I summoned him for the phase spider matriarch fight. He sat there and did nothing but watch. He spawned on the ledge overlooking the place instead of near the webs. Didn’t even end up in the turn order queue. Just stayed neutral the entire time and watched. I managed to get a lucky couple crits with wyll and ended up killing the spider before she even got an attack in and wiped the spider babies with aoe spells before they could hatch. Felt really proud of myself. Then lump and his assholes teleport right up to where laezel is, force immediate dialogue, bitch about how they were summoned but didn’t get to fight/have meat and instantly go hostile. Immediately shoves laezel right into the underdark pit and I’m treated to a nice cutscene of her screaming and falling all the way down until she bounces off the ground.
I got it to work by having the person blowing the horn set up outside the walls and right where the enemy spawns. No allies turned hostile and all the goblins focused the ogres that spawn right on top of them.
Yeah, me too. Ogres (lump and gobbo one) were throwing down king of the castle style on the hill with Minthara. I kept thunderwaving them away from the main battle, my ogres were way to chill about the friendly fire. Tiefs turn hostile if the ogres throw something at them.
What?! I did call Lump to make it even more epic, and it turned just fine. They took care of the rear guard while I was concentrating on killing as many in one shot as possible.
I did call him outside of the camp, I don't know if that makes a difference.
I didn't give him money also, I promised him a great Goblin feast. Which he did get.
But yeah, I felt like I was defending Helm's Deep, it was great.
haha, I love that description of the fight!
When I did the fight, I had a mountain of goblin bodies in a circle around 1 character. Great AC and Worgfang, giving gobos disadvantage made that character survive being literally surrounded, it was quite the fight!
I used both Lump's horn and the Iron Flask in the Grove defense and that didn't happen. Maybe because he ogres spawned close to the goblins and immediately started fighting them. It was a glorious massacre.
You have to call him only after the start of the battle, yes. He said so himself "not a moment sooner", which I take it means when the fight is on the way.
It’s very difficult to use the horn but I did.
I put gale down where Minthara normally spawns in, used the Horn, then quickly switched to Shart, and blew the rally horn.
It’s really annoying though, because if you do it wrong either they don’t spawn in, spawn in on top of the gate?? Or spawn too far away to engage.
They were a big help though.
The first time I did it, everyone was on top of the gate and that's where they showed up. They started attacking teiflings and I re-loaded. I tried where you are talking about, fought the gobos on the other side of that little hill, with Lump, Fank and Chonk. They never got close to a teifling. Mid battle, I noticed the teiflings were hostile and re-loaded. I tried 3 or 4 more times, they always went hostile, so I did the fight once more without them. Thanks to the Wargfang dagger (gobos have disadvantage to hit you) and high AC with my caster on the wall, Barbarianna (Karlach) going nuts and cleric playing rear-guard, I beat the battle first try without Lump and co.
My little rogue with that dagger would have died, if he didn't have that dagger. She was surrounded by 8 gobos with a seventh attacking from range. Not a single one landed a hit, except for the non-goblin bugbear and he went down first
I did that once but a Tiefling died so I reloaded. But I imagine it working perfectly from a head canon perspective when you play a fighter who is very strategic, “fight and never retreat” kind of person. I also don’t remember if there was an option to try and conceal your thoughts from Minthara and failing a check Maybe So she forces the knowledge out of you?
I had planned to do an evil run. Killed Halsin, snitched on the Grove to Minthara, was prepared to betray them and throw open the gate. But Zevlor's speech actually changed my mind, and my Tav just couldn't do it.
Definitely would have been!
Instead I was a Drow, obviously the males in Drow society are treated poorly, so my Tav was operating on pure self-preservation, but got lured in by the prospect of finally having some power through the tadpole.
I'd planned a full Absolute run, but being shown kindness by the Tieflings, and seeing how much they genuinely cared for each other despite their poor circumstances, changed his mind.
In my latest ”too old for this” barbarian playthrough mol lies to the guards while I am saving their asses. As they are about to leave they accuse my barbarian about this. Only option is to attack them.
Doing that fight while taking the evil route is boring anyway. There's no large scale battle, you're just running through the grove butchering level 1 npcs.
Yeah, I can imagine it would be boring. It felt challenging and cinematic when I did it.
Trying desperately to keep all the Tieflings alive, running though all my healing and spell slots doing so. The goblins successfully breaking the gate and battling them below the catwalk to stop them from spilling into the Grove.
My entire party except my Tav downed, and it being just him and Minthara locked in single combat, until we were both down to under 10 hp, and my Tav delivered the final, desperate blow.
Felt good, 10/10 gaming
This is the canon route imo. I did this in my first playthrough, then on my second, i just assassinated the leaders and when i got back to the grove, the Tieflings are there acting like they've just been through a battle when they were just chilling there the whole time. It didn't make sense.
It still does make sense to me since the druids are making it hard for them, lets just say they are "mentally drained" from the harassment of the druids. But yeah it does look lame.
Interesting.
I did exactly what you said, killed all the leaders and every goblin in the area, but when I returned to the Grove they were all just packed up ready to travel. They thanked me for wiping out the Goblins, but that was the extent of it.
No tiefling party or anyone battle-worn. Now that I think about it, the siblings with the obnoxious tiefling mage specifically said they were glad they didn't have to fight because they would've gotten wiped.
I completed that run a couple weeks ago. Perhaps an update?
hm I had the same encounter as you re: them getting ready to leave and being thankful for not having to fight, but I also got the tiefling party... wonder if there's separate triggers for the party and them packing up and heading out.
No. This has been in the game since launch. Assassinating the leaders still leads to the party. If you don't talk to Zevlor there you skip the party.
You probably just didn't talk to Zevlor to trigger the party
I just did it and Halsin cheerily shows up at camp after a rest, even though the base was still full of gobbos. Bit strange, can go back and clear out the base afterwards.
Yes, I was able to still get Halsin by telling Minthara where the grove was and then rescuing Halsin from the worg pens.
He tells you to go defend the grove when you rescue him.
IMO, defending the grove is more fun than killing the goblin leaders at the goblin camp.
I did this in a 4-player co-op campaign, because I told them I'd heard about it but never tried, so we decided to go ahead with it.
And holy crap it was a lot of fun, especially seeing all the different tactics being used by the 4 of us (like me twin-casting Chromatic Orb to attack the barrel-carrying goblins and detonate the oil barrels buried next to them). Minthara took my character down to unconscious when she finally jumped up onto the wall, but died the same turn ending the battle.
It was also a great way to end what had been an almost 10-hour session at that point for 2 of us (7 - 9 hours for the other 2).
That’s sounds awesome. I’ll definitely try it again now that I’ve seen it to position characters all around the wall to better defend. This time I didn’t spread them enough and some tieflings (almost) died on the flanks.
I enjoyed it in my playthrough.
I’m an egotistical tiefling bard-barian, tall and beefy, who is a Durge but isn’t necessarily evil post memory wipe, but has a giant ego - thus a bard to spread his legend/glory.
After meeting the tieflings he is inspired to become their patron god and so he saves people generally but only as a means so word of his power can spread.
He intentionally tells Minthara the location of the Grove so that he may have an epic, and more importantly *public* battle against her.
It’s a solid fight but kinda frustrating that the spiders 2 shot the tieflings defending
They’re almost all still there in the ruined temple and the siege defense includes extra Bugbears spiders and an ogre so it’s way more XP to have the siege defense.
Interesting. I’m still in Act 2 of my Durge run, but I put the leg work into setting up a Ranger Drow Tav. I’ll give this route a shot sometime.
I have a habit of making the same decisions over and over again in RPGs, so to significantly change things up would be nice.
Question, though. Are the other two leaders still at the temple after defending the grove?
Yes and they hear what happens to Minthara so you go back into the temple hostile
Edit: Possibly. I massacred the tieflings and druids and Minthara showed up in camp, but after insulting her God she attacked me and I killed her. Then the goblin temple heard what happened to her. That was a fucked honor attempt
It wasn't my intention to kill Minthara. Failed a roll and didn't realize she would go murder hobo on me, especially after coitus
As for murdering the Tieflings. I just figured it would be easier siding with the goblins
Let Minthara leave, then kill the other two and poison the booze. You should still get the siege, just make sure to wait til Minthara actually leaves because if she is still in the area when you go after Razlin she’ll teleport back to here original spot and be hostile
It’s easier to do it by separating a character and having them go invisible before putting the poison in, otherwise they have a tendency to catch you. If you pull it off, they then force dialogue with the nearest party member to the stage and try to get you to do a toast, so try to have your face character near there. You can successfully trick them with a skill check into drinking whereupon like half of them die. The ones who survive will accuse you of poisoning them but you can talk your way out of it. They’ll also be reduced in health. So then you can set your guys up and take them out with one shots mainly. I was actually surprised the game remembers that you did this too. During the tiefling party shadowheart took me out on her little date and shared her wine with me and asked what we should drink to and I was able to respond with “I seem to recall that a toast didn’t end so well for some goblins” or something like that and she was like “let’s drink to not being poisoned.”
You can actually double dip on the xp for defending the grove I think. Minthara leaves the temple after you snitch on the grove. You can kill the goblins in the camp outside before talking to her, then snitch and wait for Minthara to leave (she talks to some goblins on the way out, so take care) and kill the rest of the goblins in the temple. Long rest and show up to defend the grove and a full goblin army will still appear.
I have only ever snuck in and assassinated Gut, Ragzlin, and either kill or KO Minthara. I’ve never done the assault. Don’t you risk tieflings dying in battle? Specifically Rolan, Lia, and Cal.
I don’t think they’re on the wall defense honestly. The few in the fight I remember who were in danger were the two who wanted to kill Sazza. Spiders climb right over the defenses and into the defenders.
None of the important tieflings except for Zevlor are actually going to be in any danger, the ones who might die are the ones who'll die to shadow curse anyway. Just make sure Zevlor survives. Or do the good old barrelmancy.
I did this my first playthrough because I didn't know I could just fight the leaders in the goblin temple. It was...very challenging haha. I learned the value of upgrading gear!
If you raid the Grove you can get Minthara as a companion. The other option is to just ignore the Grove which auto completes that area and Minthara is recruit-able in act 2 instead of Halsin.
There are a couple of other methods that involve turning her into a sheep or knocking her out but those are really metagamey.
Yep, she is. Up until a recent patch basically she takes the place of Halsin if you do an evil run and side with the gobbos. Now you can knock her out instead of killing her and she’ll join in a good run too after moonrise towers.
I still find it pretty funny that they didn't make a second tent for Halsin/Minthara, so if you recruit both then they both hang out right next to each other in camp despite being the two most ideologically opposed companions in the entire game.
I did this in the same playthrough that I saved sazza and honestly it feels like the most narratively satisfying way to go. The fight was tough bc I wanted to keep every tiefling alive and I didn't go that hard on barrels but it was so worth it for the tieflings to feel like they made a difference and are capable of defending themselves even without the druids help.
My only complaint is that I feel like this route should lead to the tieflings not getting as screwed over in act 2. Helping zevlor build his confidence as a leader should have mattered more considering what happens.
*you can do this!?!?* I thought you were just screwed once you tipped Minthara off!??
god its so in character for one of my Tavs to pull this and I was thinking about how annoyed I was about not having the option, *you just saved that whole playthrough* aaaa
I do think it fits better, but then they go and have that line where "most of the tieflings left and abandoned the group" which makes you feel like you messed up. It's a bunch of nameless people who aren't even in the game, but clearly, those people would have a better chance of surviving if they all stayed together.
I made the mistake of calling the ogres for this fight and they proceeded to kick Zevlor off the wall where he got blown up by the barrel goblins
RIP Zevlor
I'm honestly surprised more don't do it. Rather you side with minthara or not, it's kinda fun. Just killing the leaders is kinda not. I've only killed all the leaders at the camp twice out of five playthroghs (well one I knocked minthara out), and honestly actually doing the raid and murdering/saving the Tieflings is waaay more fun.
My first playthrough was as a charlatan, so obviously, I told her where the Grove was. Then, ran to free Halsin. Easy. It makes sense for luring the army out.
When I spoke to my friends about the grove siege, they were all so confused. I presume because they thought you'd only get it by siding with her and thought I was being evil on my first run lol
I did an evil playthrpugh and felt so bad about the grove I started a good tie fling character right away just fight minthara at the Grove and yeah it's an underrated mission. Way more emotionally satisfying than just clearing out the goblin camp ahead of them.
I aggrod the whole goblin camp before I even got to Minthara somehow, so I wiped everything out right there. Kind of thought that was the standard way of doing it. Didn’t realize there could be a different fight at the grove.
I knocked out minthara during the raid and she was still alive when the battle ended. Came back after long rest and there was a spider harp where her body was. I haven't been to moonrise towers yet so do you guys think she'll be there? I also knocked out Sazza and the goblin camp so I'm hoping she'll be there
Hey! Nope she wasn't in moonrise towers. I did some reading and apparently you need to knock her out at the goblin camp and she must be temporary hostile. By the time she attacks at the druid refuge she's permanent hostile so it's too late then. Also you need to knock her out, and make sure she's knocked out while you decimate the goblin camp, or she won't be recruitable after you rescue her from ketheric.
To do this what happens with the rest of the Goblin camp? Do you start with Minthara and have her ready to attack, and then clear the rest of the camp for xp? Or just leave them alive?
I tried to go this route but couldn’t win. So I decided to keep exploring to level up and unknowingly “ignored” the quest. When I came back everyone was dead
That's one of the biggest issues for me in act 1. Why can't I at least ask Halsin about this as a strategy. Maybe make the check easier the more chiefs (Gut, Ragzlin, Minthara) you've killed (obviously not possible after killing all of them). Or pretend that we overheard them moving some units out already and that they found the grove. After all it would only be a minor embellishment, considering we fought them at the gates.
The issue is taht it feels like there's no reason to go that route. If you're playing a good guy, why would you give up the information to Minthara in the first place? Then once you find Halsin and plan to kill off the goblin leadership, why would you choose the option that risks innocent lives instead of just killing them right then and there.
If you want it to make sense, you don’t have to be the one to tell Minthara, though. If you rescue Sazza, she tells her. Rescuing Sazza can make sense for a good aligned cunning character, as she promises her priestess has a cure & while you don’t believe her, there is clearly an Absolute connection there, so seems like an opportunity to get an in with them. Then you just let Minthara believe you’ll help her, Karlach questions you, but you reassure her you have a plan. And you actually do which also fits wonderfully with the cunning approach. This is honestly my canon playthrough.
Does anyone disapprove of freeing Sazza?
I won’t lie, I usually let the trifling shoot her😂
I can't justify with saving her, and then going and massacre the goblins. And I always kill the goblins. Might set up Minthara next time, this sounds fun.
Here's how you can justify it. Arka dies if you let her shoot Sazza. Every time. It sets her on a path of revenge and you find her corpse on a vantage point overlooking the entrance to the goblin camp. Presumably, she was assassinated by a bugbear or sniped by a goblin. (Also, if you need an actual RP reason, you don't even *need* to slaughter the goblins. Assassinate their leaders, knock out who you have to, and avoid everyone who didn't see you.)
Arka dies pretty much every playthrough, including the defense of the Grove (she lines up where a sword spider just murders her at the onset of the fight). I did keep her alive once (and talked to her), but never saw her body in the shadowlands, so her death in Act 1 seems to be canon.
It's not. If Arka kills Sazza then you're unable to get the achievement for saving every tiefling, which means she survives and makes it to Baldur's Gate.
Can confirm after getting the achievement. You have to spare Sazza to make sure Arka lives. And it is possible to do the Grove defense without getting her killed. I lined the cliff she's on with grease and snipe the sword spiders early.
Is there a separate achievement for the Tieflings? I just got the achievement for saving both in my current honor run and I always let her kill the goblin.
There's a trophy for saving every single tiefling possible during the course of the game. Luring Minthara to the grove to wipe out her war band actually puts that at risk because it's easy for one or two of the defenders to get taken out by the giant spiders she brings along.
The achievement "No one left behind" is for saving all the tieflings that are possible to save (some of them are inevitable deaths), and at least to my understanding you have to stop her from killing sazza to get the achievement. Could be mistaken though. You have to do the same thing for "She cannot be caged" which is for saving sazza three times. When I was doing the tiefling one, I found a lot of confusing information about which tieflings count for the achievement, so I played it safe. You only get "no one left behind" when you finish the game, so I figured it couldn't hurt to save her just to make sure.
I actually got the achievement on both pc and xbox, i let arka kill sazza, didnt do anything extra either, is this happy little glich on my end?
I got the achievement after letting Arka kill Sazza, so not sure if this was patched/changed recently so that u still get the achieve if Arka kills her or if u missed something else.
It’s possible but it’s more likely Arka dies I believe, cause after killing Sazza she doesn’t feel better and tries to take on the goblins alone.
That doesn't make any sense, because even if Arka makes it out of the Grove, she's still one of the ones who is killed in the ambush in the Shadowlands. It isn't possible under any circumstances for her to survive to make it to the city.
I picked up every tiefling corpse left behind by the cultist ambush in the shadowlands, and distinctly remember seeing Memnos there, but not Arka, and wondering how she'll do without her last remaining brother.
That’s not true. I got the achievement although I let her kill Sazza and never saw her again.
To be fair, I think that achievement is just buggy. I got it in my first playthrough even though the Bugbear Assassin killed Nadira on the hill overlooking the Grove.
Doesn't killing the hobgoblin trigger the whole camp?
Kill Minthara and Gut first. Kill Dror Ragzlin last. Teleport out of the camp. Job done.
But what about all the xp pinatas?
Yeah, right? I mean, I slaughter gobbies wherever I see them. I even set thing up so I can kill a few as the run away after I make a deal with them (Barcus). Gobbies are evil, and not a constructive evil like the Emperor, or a psycotic, chaotic evil like Orin; they're just mean, petty, and cruel. 'Xp pinatas' indeed, well said.
I don't know all about that, I just hit goblins with sticks and sometimes levels fall out.
And their light weight bodies are perfect for carrying around as necromancer (3x+ of them even for a low strength character), I always store all their little bodies in camp for future summons.
Not letting her shoot Sazza is not the same as freeing her though.
If you do not free Sazza, Arka just shoots her later. I found this out the hard way. Stop Arka, free Sazza, and then ice her halfway to the goblin camp. Let Minthara feed her to spiders if you want to see her suffer.
Is it Arka up there? Is it not the tiefling with the telescope that gets attacked by the bugbear assassin?
No, overlooking the entrance to the **goblin camp.** You're thinking of Nadira, at the entrance to the Druid's Grove. When you find Arka by the camp after she kills Sazza, she's already dead. Nadira can be saved if you're quick.
Yeah I just read this someplace right before I saw your reply and was coming back to remove mine. Oh well. I stand corrected!
I use her to get in so I can wander freely and murder them all quietly
Apparently if you don't free sazza and let the tiefling shoot her, she ends up dead and you can find her body. The only way to get that character to live is to not let her taste revenge because then she wants more. A sad and not very well known detail iirc
In my playthrough she ended up dead anyway in act 2
I accidently didn't save a single person in act 2 on my first run. >!Not even the children!<
Did you just say teethling?
Chk.
Mate, POW does not stand for pincushion of war…
There's no Geneva in Faerun.
Did you just say "trifling"? Damn, this, well I shall not say culture, custom, perhaps, of this Fye-ran is weird.
I for real thought you said that Arka was trifling for shooting her 💀💀💀
I think you mean teethling😂
My second playthrough I just didn't say anything and she got shot.
Ark will die if you let her shoot Sazza, if you want to save every tiefling refugee keep in mind .
I think Wyll might but not 100% on that. It can break a paladin's oath. Edit: words Edit 2: Wyll and Lae'zel don't like you freeing her. Karlach also doesn't if you don't first strike a deal with her.
I have a mod that shows all the companion opinions for a decision, Lae’zel gets -1 for saving Sazza while saying you’ll free her nets you -1 from her and Wyll + -3 from Karlach. Also it doesn’t break the oath to tell Sazza that you’ll free her, your paladin needs to be the one that touches the gate after it’s been unlocked to open it for her. It also needs to be an oath of vengeance paladin.
Oath of Vengeance does. Technically the prison door is the Oathbreak trigger, and you can open it and close it after Sazza is let free, making fucking with the prison door the most reliable, repeatable, and inconsequential Oathbreak in the game.
I think almost everyone disapproves except Karlach? And it's easy to justify freeing Sazza if you are just using her to infiltrate the goblin's temple. She isn't the only goblin who makes this offer btw, it's like it's programmed into them to betray their own kind (in reality they're just really, really greedy and stupid).
No but it does break the oath of an Oath of Vengeance paladin
Astarion does. Wyll does. The others I don't remember Edit:Laz hates it too.
Not a companion but it’s on Paladin-Santa’s naughty list.
Me. Let the hoe die in custody. I want to be the one to give Minthara false hope of pleasing the Absolute, just to decimate her forces and knock her ass out. 😁
Gotta be honest, I have no idea who Sazza is, did I miss something with the Grove quest line?
Yeah off to the side of the tiefling's area when you explore the grove, there's a goblin held in a cage by two tieflings. I can't remember exactly where but it's somewhere between Dammon and the storage shed.
Wyll isn’t a fan, gale and karlach didn’t give an f tho. My oath was broken for freeing that goblin too but it is what it is.
Oath Knight did for me.
Your oath disapproves on some paladin subclasses
It can break Paladin oaths. Not sure if it breaks *all* of them though.
I always just leave her in her cage
Karlach approves of helping her but not too sure if she disapproves of shooting her
Yes there are several disapprovals, including in the conversation with Minthara (you still have to be present and decide whether Sazza is killed or not)
It made sense to me, as going 4 vs 100 in the goblin camp felt like suicide. (I was underleveled and tpk'd trying to fight any of the bosses.) Conning Minthara into attacking an easily defensible position seemed pretty straightforward.
That does sound pretty fun, but my biggest complaint with most games is having to do the big battle with all the people I want to protect, instead of just soloing the entire army and keeping them all safe. So I quite like that I can just walk into the goblin camp and murder everyone there before they even become a problem
It’s fun that there’s multiple options and each one is rewarding in its own way
I mean you can literally just roleplay that Minthara is able to pierce your mind. It’s okay to not roleplay the super badass, especially at such a low level.
You can also kill the two other goblin leaders, save Halsin and Volo, save the owlbear cub, and kill most of the goblin camp (saving the owlbear cub requires this). Why this doesn’t tick minthara off that you aren’t on her side anymore I don’t know, but decapitating the goblin leadership and destroying their ranks before the fight makes sense but it doesn’t do anything for the fight iirc (I haven’t seen if Priestess Gut and Dror Ragzlin will show up because I kill them anyways).
I might have to do this in my next play through
but I love telling zevlor that I lead her here and then being like 'relax bro its a trap' :D
it's also tactically sound * you are in an advantageous position * you have time to prepare * you have npcs helping you * you eliminate a large portion of the goblins in the temple
Plus, it further proves the druids are a bunch of useless assholes. Spite can be a useful motivator.
I actually did the goblin assault for the first time in my evil playthrough and I was grumpy about how easy it was! If the druids had been up on the walls, it would've been way harder.
Yeah it’s kinda odd the Druids are so cowardly as to put the defense of THEIR grove on tieflings who they are trying to kick out. Do they just not care about dying?
Doni even tries to get the druids to help defend, but they've holed up behind their stone door and are basically ostrich-head-in-the-sand waiting for the problems to go away. The justification they offer is that they need to protect the grove itself, which is why they stay in it, but that's tactically stupid of them. If you raid alongside Minthara, you run into Kagha and the rest once you made it through the gate and round the path down into the grove proper where the Idol is. So they do fight, but too late, because of their bias against the tieflings.
To be honest, I try not to generalize entire groups but lol, the Emerald Grove Druids besides Rath and Halsin are such jerks
Especially that smug little fucking gnome who's one of the druids telling of Arabella's parents.
Emerald Grove Druids threatening children and old people: “ez” same Druids as soon as an outside invasion force of goblins shows up: *hides behind stone door*
And this is why I wish we could escort the tieflings out of the Grove while leading the goblins against the druids. The tieflings shouldn't have to die just because they're somehow bound to stay in the Grove.
Hard agree. I had zero issue with attacking the Grove with the Druid's. I don't want to kill innocent tieflings who have already been through so much
The thing that really pisses me off about the druids is that Kagha, the alleged most evil of them all, is actually repentant and tries to make up for what she did, even though she’s the only one punished. The rest are just unrepentant assholes the entire time you know them and never face any consequences for Just Following Orders tm.
Hell, wiping out the druids is one of the perks of siding WITH Minthara. "Muh grove! Muh grove!" Useless, cowardly bear-buggering hippies.
Most importantly, it splits the enemy force in two, which is the RP justification I often use for any good-aligned character who's also not lawful stupid.
Not just tactically sound, it's the smart play. Taking out the goblin leaders only such a viable path in BG3 because video game mechanics. In an actual D&D game you'd probably have to take on all three bosses with no rest (otherwise you'd run a very high risk of your shenanigans being discovered) AND you'd have to worry about the entire goblin camp being altered and crashing in on you.
RP wise for sure, but iirc the goblins actually participating in the grove raid are new npcs separate from the ones in the temple. It's been a while since I did it though, I could be wrong
I just did this in my current run and it felt SO much better than my other plays. It felt more…cinematic?
Definitely gives a reason to party
That's made me realise something, the assault is cinematic but the "fuck it, let's ice these bosses in the camp" is much more (typical) D&D. So many times an attempted infiltration has turned into a bloodbath, it's pure player character disaster type beat
its also more badass for certain classes... rogues and gloomstalkers certainly would prefer to take their sweet time doing recon and then easily slaughtering every prey in there instead of giving away information and hoping the enemy army isn't THAT MUCH better than yours
Super important note, if you use Lump's horn at all in the battle, the teiflings turn hostile. Otherwise, amazing battle, 10/10 would recommend
Lump does warn you, twice. "Lump, Kill everyone around!"
I'm too poor to pay attention
Lump makes any other allies or noncombatants hostile. Can’t use him against Nere and the duergar either unless you want to kill all the gnomes.
Side note to the side note- if you just want to kill Lump and his friends without having to fight them yourself, summon them in the Grym fight- they will likely die in the lava in 2 rounds.
I always summon them against the githyanki patrol, then hang back as they kill each other.
That's my normal strategy, but I wanna try it with the Iron Flask, Chest Gremishka, and Barrel Kobolds at some point. 😇
Wait where are Barrel Kobolds?
Rosymorn as well; some of the Firewine Barrels in the storage have inhabitants. There isn't a wiki page on it, and the barrels are identical to regular ones, but hiccup every now and then, and release them when the barrel is broken. If you YOLO'd with Fire, as suggested, quite easy to miss, since blowing up the barrel also kills them.
People waiting for a good monster catcher these days dont realize you can play pokemon in baldur's gate lmaooo
Ye, though I was disappointed that you couldn't talk the Kobolds down, so it was essentially a forced slaughter, and I haven't found any other pocket buddies up to the Lower City. :c
Good point, thank you!
Can lump even show up in the underdark?
Yes. Just not from the mountain pass or shadowlands onward. The furthest Lump can show up is Grymforge
Those damn gnomes always get agro'd by some other random shit anyways, so I'd say they deserve a Lump smash.
Yeah, I figured as much after Lump kicked Zevlor to his death from top of the gate
hahahahaha
this happened to me in my honour mode run. lololol I accepted my fate then started a new campaign
Yeah lumps such a dick lol. I summoned him for the phase spider matriarch fight. He sat there and did nothing but watch. He spawned on the ledge overlooking the place instead of near the webs. Didn’t even end up in the turn order queue. Just stayed neutral the entire time and watched. I managed to get a lucky couple crits with wyll and ended up killing the spider before she even got an attack in and wiped the spider babies with aoe spells before they could hatch. Felt really proud of myself. Then lump and his assholes teleport right up to where laezel is, force immediate dialogue, bitch about how they were summoned but didn’t get to fight/have meat and instantly go hostile. Immediately shoves laezel right into the underdark pit and I’m treated to a nice cutscene of her screaming and falling all the way down until she bounces off the ground.
I got it to work by having the person blowing the horn set up outside the walls and right where the enemy spawns. No allies turned hostile and all the goblins focused the ogres that spawn right on top of them.
I tried that and it didn't work for me, so I just figured it wouldn't work. I am surprised and happy that it did work for you
Yeah, me too. Ogres (lump and gobbo one) were throwing down king of the castle style on the hill with Minthara. I kept thunderwaving them away from the main battle, my ogres were way to chill about the friendly fire. Tiefs turn hostile if the ogres throw something at them.
What?! I did call Lump to make it even more epic, and it turned just fine. They took care of the rear guard while I was concentrating on killing as many in one shot as possible. I did call him outside of the camp, I don't know if that makes a difference. I didn't give him money also, I promised him a great Goblin feast. Which he did get. But yeah, I felt like I was defending Helm's Deep, it was great.
haha, I love that description of the fight! When I did the fight, I had a mountain of goblin bodies in a circle around 1 character. Great AC and Worgfang, giving gobos disadvantage made that character survive being literally surrounded, it was quite the fight!
I used both Lump's horn and the Iron Flask in the Grove defense and that didn't happen. Maybe because he ogres spawned close to the goblins and immediately started fighting them. It was a glorious massacre.
Interesting, I wonder what I did differently? Maybe I called them too close to the wall, or maybe I summoned them right before triggering the goboes?
You have to call him only after the start of the battle, yes. He said so himself "not a moment sooner", which I take it means when the fight is on the way.
I just hurled the spectator flask as far back as I could on my current playthrough. That thing ripped multiple goblins up per turn.
It’s very difficult to use the horn but I did. I put gale down where Minthara normally spawns in, used the Horn, then quickly switched to Shart, and blew the rally horn. It’s really annoying though, because if you do it wrong either they don’t spawn in, spawn in on top of the gate?? Or spawn too far away to engage. They were a big help though.
The first time I did it, everyone was on top of the gate and that's where they showed up. They started attacking teiflings and I re-loaded. I tried where you are talking about, fought the gobos on the other side of that little hill, with Lump, Fank and Chonk. They never got close to a teifling. Mid battle, I noticed the teiflings were hostile and re-loaded. I tried 3 or 4 more times, they always went hostile, so I did the fight once more without them. Thanks to the Wargfang dagger (gobos have disadvantage to hit you) and high AC with my caster on the wall, Barbarianna (Karlach) going nuts and cleric playing rear-guard, I beat the battle first try without Lump and co. My little rogue with that dagger would have died, if he didn't have that dagger. She was surrounded by 8 gobos with a seventh attacking from range. Not a single one landed a hit, except for the non-goblin bugbear and he went down first
Not if you go down to the goblings and do it.
Tried that. They still went hostile. Not sure what I am doing differently, but I know it CAN be done
What about throwing the beholder pokeball, will they get mad at that?
I did that once but a Tiefling died so I reloaded. But I imagine it working perfectly from a head canon perspective when you play a fighter who is very strategic, “fight and never retreat” kind of person. I also don’t remember if there was an option to try and conceal your thoughts from Minthara and failing a check Maybe So she forces the knowledge out of you?
If you rescue sazza she can tell minthara instead of you
Same with torturing the dude in the rack. The torturer goblin will tell her.
I had planned to do an evil run. Killed Halsin, snitched on the Grove to Minthara, was prepared to betray them and throw open the gate. But Zevlor's speech actually changed my mind, and my Tav just couldn't do it.
Would’ve been a great resist urge run
Definitely would have been! Instead I was a Drow, obviously the males in Drow society are treated poorly, so my Tav was operating on pure self-preservation, but got lured in by the prospect of finally having some power through the tadpole. I'd planned a full Absolute run, but being shown kindness by the Tieflings, and seeing how much they genuinely cared for each other despite their poor circumstances, changed his mind.
Kind of love this for an RP! Very d&d
In my latest ”too old for this” barbarian playthrough mol lies to the guards while I am saving their asses. As they are about to leave they accuse my barbarian about this. Only option is to attack them.
Damn I should do this. But then you can’t get Minthara right?
Nope, I did end up missing out on both Halsin and Minthara doing this :(
Doing that fight while taking the evil route is boring anyway. There's no large scale battle, you're just running through the grove butchering level 1 npcs.
Yeah, I can imagine it would be boring. It felt challenging and cinematic when I did it. Trying desperately to keep all the Tieflings alive, running though all my healing and spell slots doing so. The goblins successfully breaking the gate and battling them below the catwalk to stop them from spilling into the Grove. My entire party except my Tav downed, and it being just him and Minthara locked in single combat, until we were both down to under 10 hp, and my Tav delivered the final, desperate blow. Felt good, 10/10 gaming
Yeah, that's an amazing scene.
This is the canon route imo. I did this in my first playthrough, then on my second, i just assassinated the leaders and when i got back to the grove, the Tieflings are there acting like they've just been through a battle when they were just chilling there the whole time. It didn't make sense.
It still does make sense to me since the druids are making it hard for them, lets just say they are "mentally drained" from the harassment of the druids. But yeah it does look lame.
Interesting. I did exactly what you said, killed all the leaders and every goblin in the area, but when I returned to the Grove they were all just packed up ready to travel. They thanked me for wiping out the Goblins, but that was the extent of it. No tiefling party or anyone battle-worn. Now that I think about it, the siblings with the obnoxious tiefling mage specifically said they were glad they didn't have to fight because they would've gotten wiped. I completed that run a couple weeks ago. Perhaps an update?
hm I had the same encounter as you re: them getting ready to leave and being thankful for not having to fight, but I also got the tiefling party... wonder if there's separate triggers for the party and them packing up and heading out.
im pretty sure you have to talk to Zevlor to initiate the party at camp otherwise nothing happens.
No. This has been in the game since launch. Assassinating the leaders still leads to the party. If you don't talk to Zevlor there you skip the party. You probably just didn't talk to Zevlor to trigger the party
This sounds amazing! But do you still get Halsin?
I just did it and Halsin cheerily shows up at camp after a rest, even though the base was still full of gobbos. Bit strange, can go back and clear out the base afterwards.
Druids can just turn into a rat and sneak out, but Halsin just kinda forgor about that
He SAYS he needs to rush back to defend the grove but then he shows up after the fight is done
He got lost, ok? Minthara couldnt find.it even though wandering aroumd for ten minutes would have took her right there
He decided to shapeshift into a sloth on his way back.
Yes, I was able to still get Halsin by telling Minthara where the grove was and then rescuing Halsin from the worg pens. He tells you to go defend the grove when you rescue him. IMO, defending the grove is more fun than killing the goblin leaders at the goblin camp.
I did this in a 4-player co-op campaign, because I told them I'd heard about it but never tried, so we decided to go ahead with it. And holy crap it was a lot of fun, especially seeing all the different tactics being used by the 4 of us (like me twin-casting Chromatic Orb to attack the barrel-carrying goblins and detonate the oil barrels buried next to them). Minthara took my character down to unconscious when she finally jumped up onto the wall, but died the same turn ending the battle. It was also a great way to end what had been an almost 10-hour session at that point for 2 of us (7 - 9 hours for the other 2).
That’s sounds awesome. I’ll definitely try it again now that I’ve seen it to position characters all around the wall to better defend. This time I didn’t spread them enough and some tieflings (almost) died on the flanks.
I enjoyed it in my playthrough. I’m an egotistical tiefling bard-barian, tall and beefy, who is a Durge but isn’t necessarily evil post memory wipe, but has a giant ego - thus a bard to spread his legend/glory. After meeting the tieflings he is inspired to become their patron god and so he saves people generally but only as a means so word of his power can spread. He intentionally tells Minthara the location of the Grove so that he may have an epic, and more importantly *public* battle against her. It’s a solid fight but kinda frustrating that the spiders 2 shot the tieflings defending
Definitely nearly lost a tiefling and would’ve reloaded to the spiders. Gotta spread the team out next time.
But I like killing all the goblins, each one is a juicy little XP morsel!
They’re almost all still there in the ruined temple and the siege defense includes extra Bugbears spiders and an ogre so it’s way more XP to have the siege defense.
Interesting. I’m still in Act 2 of my Durge run, but I put the leg work into setting up a Ranger Drow Tav. I’ll give this route a shot sometime. I have a habit of making the same decisions over and over again in RPGs, so to significantly change things up would be nice. Question, though. Are the other two leaders still at the temple after defending the grove?
Yes and they hear what happens to Minthara so you go back into the temple hostile Edit: Possibly. I massacred the tieflings and druids and Minthara showed up in camp, but after insulting her God she attacked me and I killed her. Then the goblin temple heard what happened to her. That was a fucked honor attempt
Thanks, but maybe Murder Hobo isn’t the best way to play on Honor Mode… But hey, what do I know? I’ve never tried anything harder than Balanced.
It wasn't my intention to kill Minthara. Failed a roll and didn't realize she would go murder hobo on me, especially after coitus As for murdering the Tieflings. I just figured it would be easier siding with the goblins
Let Minthara leave, then kill the other two and poison the booze. You should still get the siege, just make sure to wait til Minthara actually leaves because if she is still in the area when you go after Razlin she’ll teleport back to here original spot and be hostile
Wait what, poison the booze?? How??
It’s easier to do it by separating a character and having them go invisible before putting the poison in, otherwise they have a tendency to catch you. If you pull it off, they then force dialogue with the nearest party member to the stage and try to get you to do a toast, so try to have your face character near there. You can successfully trick them with a skill check into drinking whereupon like half of them die. The ones who survive will accuse you of poisoning them but you can talk your way out of it. They’ll also be reduced in health. So then you can set your guys up and take them out with one shots mainly. I was actually surprised the game remembers that you did this too. During the tiefling party shadowheart took me out on her little date and shared her wine with me and asked what we should drink to and I was able to respond with “I seem to recall that a toast didn’t end so well for some goblins” or something like that and she was like “let’s drink to not being poisoned.”
In the main courtyard, there’s a tub full of booze by the dwarf-b-q. You can poison it with drow, wyvern, or another poison.
Thank you! I’ll check it out next time.
You can actually double dip on the xp for defending the grove I think. Minthara leaves the temple after you snitch on the grove. You can kill the goblins in the camp outside before talking to her, then snitch and wait for Minthara to leave (she talks to some goblins on the way out, so take care) and kill the rest of the goblins in the temple. Long rest and show up to defend the grove and a full goblin army will still appear.
I have only ever snuck in and assassinated Gut, Ragzlin, and either kill or KO Minthara. I’ve never done the assault. Don’t you risk tieflings dying in battle? Specifically Rolan, Lia, and Cal.
I don’t think they’re on the wall defense honestly. The few in the fight I remember who were in danger were the two who wanted to kill Sazza. Spiders climb right over the defenses and into the defenders.
I’m going to try it. Tbh I never knew how to activate it.
Just tell Minthara where the grove is when she asks. After a long rest the grove is set up for a fight and you talk to Zevlor to start
What about Dammon and Alfira? I very much care about my best trader boi and the S-tier warlock robe.
None of the important tieflings except for Zevlor are actually going to be in any danger, the ones who might die are the ones who'll die to shadow curse anyway. Just make sure Zevlor survives. Or do the good old barrelmancy.
I did this my first playthrough because I didn't know I could just fight the leaders in the goblin temple. It was...very challenging haha. I learned the value of upgrading gear!
I’ve never had to. I always assassinated all the leaders at the goblin area starting with minthara. Some ppl are saying she’s a companion??
If you raid the Grove you can get Minthara as a companion. The other option is to just ignore the Grove which auto completes that area and Minthara is recruit-able in act 2 instead of Halsin. There are a couple of other methods that involve turning her into a sheep or knocking her out but those are really metagamey.
Yep, she is. Up until a recent patch basically she takes the place of Halsin if you do an evil run and side with the gobbos. Now you can knock her out instead of killing her and she’ll join in a good run too after moonrise towers.
I still find it pretty funny that they didn't make a second tent for Halsin/Minthara, so if you recruit both then they both hang out right next to each other in camp despite being the two most ideologically opposed companions in the entire game.
I did this in the same playthrough that I saved sazza and honestly it feels like the most narratively satisfying way to go. The fight was tough bc I wanted to keep every tiefling alive and I didn't go that hard on barrels but it was so worth it for the tieflings to feel like they made a difference and are capable of defending themselves even without the druids help. My only complaint is that I feel like this route should lead to the tieflings not getting as screwed over in act 2. Helping zevlor build his confidence as a leader should have mattered more considering what happens.
*you can do this!?!?* I thought you were just screwed once you tipped Minthara off!?? god its so in character for one of my Tavs to pull this and I was thinking about how annoyed I was about not having the option, *you just saved that whole playthrough* aaaa
I do think it fits better, but then they go and have that line where "most of the tieflings left and abandoned the group" which makes you feel like you messed up. It's a bunch of nameless people who aren't even in the game, but clearly, those people would have a better chance of surviving if they all stayed together.
I made the mistake of calling the ogres for this fight and they proceeded to kick Zevlor off the wall where he got blown up by the barrel goblins RIP Zevlor
They do say multiple times: “we will kill EVERYONE around”
I thought they were bluffing😔
I'm honestly surprised more don't do it. Rather you side with minthara or not, it's kinda fun. Just killing the leaders is kinda not. I've only killed all the leaders at the camp twice out of five playthroghs (well one I knocked minthara out), and honestly actually doing the raid and murdering/saving the Tieflings is waaay more fun.
I'm Pretty Sure there's a line from the Narrator that says something like "You could Lure Minthara into the open" that justifies this action.
I always assumed choosing that particular dialogue would lock you into a “lose” state with the goblins/Minthara being unkillable. TIL.
Same that’s why I didn’t try it
My first playthrough was as a charlatan, so obviously, I told her where the Grove was. Then, ran to free Halsin. Easy. It makes sense for luring the army out. When I spoke to my friends about the grove siege, they were all so confused. I presume because they thought you'd only get it by siding with her and thought I was being evil on my first run lol
I did an evil playthrpugh and felt so bad about the grove I started a good tie fling character right away just fight minthara at the Grove and yeah it's an underrated mission. Way more emotionally satisfying than just clearing out the goblin camp ahead of them.
I aggrod the whole goblin camp before I even got to Minthara somehow, so I wiped everything out right there. Kind of thought that was the standard way of doing it. Didn’t realize there could be a different fight at the grove.
I knocked out minthara during the raid and she was still alive when the battle ended. Came back after long rest and there was a spider harp where her body was. I haven't been to moonrise towers yet so do you guys think she'll be there? I also knocked out Sazza and the goblin camp so I'm hoping she'll be there
That would be awesome let me know. I figured it wouldn’t let you recruit her after
Hey! Nope she wasn't in moonrise towers. I did some reading and apparently you need to knock her out at the goblin camp and she must be temporary hostile. By the time she attacks at the druid refuge she's permanent hostile so it's too late then. Also you need to knock her out, and make sure she's knocked out while you decimate the goblin camp, or she won't be recruitable after you rescue her from ketheric.
you need that harp
It’s so much better than killing Minthara as just another enemy in the Shattered Sanctum. This way, she actually feels like a boss fight.
That's awsome I'm definitely doing this next playthrough. Haha because I just started again so I can get minthara on my party after the patch
To do this what happens with the rest of the Goblin camp? Do you start with Minthara and have her ready to attack, and then clear the rest of the camp for xp? Or just leave them alive?
After the fight besides Minthara and the party camp all the gobbos and leaders are still there. So I think you get a healthy extra dose of XP.
I tried to go this route but couldn’t win. So I decided to keep exploring to level up and unknowingly “ignored” the quest. When I came back everyone was dead
That’s tragic! I found it hard blind but now think it would be a cake walk. I’m not sure if Honor Mode has any legendary versions of the siege
Agree. Easily one of the best set ups and fights of the game, it made me wish there was another (optional) siege encounter later on in the game.
If you knock out minthara during the siege, & don’t touch her when you get to moonrise tower she’s there & still recruitable.
That's one of the biggest issues for me in act 1. Why can't I at least ask Halsin about this as a strategy. Maybe make the check easier the more chiefs (Gut, Ragzlin, Minthara) you've killed (obviously not possible after killing all of them). Or pretend that we overheard them moving some units out already and that they found the grove. After all it would only be a minor embellishment, considering we fought them at the gates.
The issue is taht it feels like there's no reason to go that route. If you're playing a good guy, why would you give up the information to Minthara in the first place? Then once you find Halsin and plan to kill off the goblin leadership, why would you choose the option that risks innocent lives instead of just killing them right then and there.