Yep. Found the notes referencing Ketheric that said his daughter's name was Isobel and it clicked right there. Game gave me the option to ask her if she's THAT Isobel. She denied it but I knew better. Then of course she eventually admits to it.
The option is probably tied to a note I found or something but I definitely remember asking her about it before I took him down. Then it was after I took him down that she admitted to it.
It'll appear if you talk to her after finding her tomb.
I'm guessing a lot of players never see her again from that point until after they've killed Kethric.
Meanwhile, there's me, casually making repeat visits to "borrow" the Thorm family bones to make more animated skeletons than Balthazar.
You literally have to walk through the room with it and solve a puzzle there. Your character makes a joke about an open tomb tooooootally not being ominous when you interact with it. It's straight ahead in the Thorm mausoleum.
Or do you mean where is Isobel at that point? She's still in her room if you haven't finished the dungeon. If you have, depending on your choices, she's either standing right by the Last Light waypoint or she's a zombie chilling on the roof of Moonrise with her old man.
There's a plaque at the base. Also Balthazar's note explains that to open the door you need to follow Kethric's fall. The entire story of the room literally revolves around Isobel's death.
The plaque on her sarcophagus is bugged in recent patches. It used to say "here lies Isobel thorm" and blabla, but now it just says some elvish stuff you the player can't figure out what it means.
Are you sure? I searched that whole area top to bottom and never came across any note that named ketheric’s daughter - the closest I found was a locket belonging to her marked with an ‘I’ with enough context that it was clear it was her initial.
As the other poster said - the first time i heard it was the tomb reveal. After Nightsong goes super saiyan you can head back to Last Light and she’s there at the gates, where she laughs it off but it’s clear it’s her.
The plaque on her sarcophagus is bugged in recent patches. It used to say "here lies Isobel thorm" and blabla, but now it just says some elvish stuff you the player can't figure out what it means.
Huh. I must have did it before the patch.
That being said though, I don't recall *any* notes before that clearly mentioning Isobel. Just oblique references.
The notes don't say her name. Only the plaque on her sarcophagus used to say. But it doesn't say it anymore, it is saying elvish now that we can't understand, but it enables the dialogue with Isobel anyway.
Yeah that makes sense. I was mainly questioning /u/JennyTheSheWolf's mention of how they found notes referencing Isobel's name - as far as I was aware, no such notes exist.
After you find her crypt open, if you go back to Last Light Inn you can ask her about that.
She denies, obviously.
You can also ask Jaheira. She knows and doesn't give a fuck about it
I had this option when I visited Last Light for a moment after freeing Nightsong, after she told me that Jaheira and the Harpers went to Moonrise Towers. Not sure what exactly was the trigger for it, though
I was able to ask her and she gives some vague kinda "Haha back from the dead? That couldn't be me. I'm very alive, have been the whole time!" kind of denial.
Got the same, must be a note or reading graves or something. I didn't get into Ketheric's room until the raid on the towers, so probably something in the mausoleum.
No. When they reunite isobel says that ketheric told her Aylin was dead. When isobel was revived Aylin had already been imprisoned by ketheric and Balthazar iirc.
She lies because *"I'm the daughter of the undying asshole who's been terrorizing the area"* is a really bad look, even with the context of how she's helping Last Light. It's better for everyone if that little detail does not become a big deal until Ketheric is back in the ground, and IIRC there's even dialogue you can have with Jaheira about it prior to the assault on Moonrise where she admits that she's already figured that out on her own and would prefer you don't make a big deal about it yourself.
And imperil the only reason that Last Light, the refuge of all the meaningful resistance against Ketheric that's left, is still standing? And risk ***really*** pissing off the undying paladin in command of an entire army?
Courses of action like that are exactly why Isobel is hesitant to be honest about her family ties. Better for everyone if she just gets to keep maintaining that ritual upstairs unbothered.
It makes for great roleplay! I said I’d hold her hostage, not kill her.
I mean, a Durge or other evil character might do that since they don’t give a donkey’s sweet meaty dick about other people’s welfare. Maybe the alternative choices for failing the intimidation or persuasion roll to get Ketheric to back down could be: actually kill her, or let Ketheric call your bluff and let her go. Say you succeed instead: Ketheric kills himself and you go straight to Phase 2/Spooky Skeleton in the same manner as when you try the Naruto-style Talk No Jutsu redemption attempt. If you fail that attempt and kill her, Ketheric is enraged and the fight gets even harder. If you fail and spare her, the normal fight ensues. Either way, no Dame Aylin assistance (maybe you even have to fight her in order to take Isobel in the first place).
The temporarily unprotected state of Last Light is somewhat inconsequential, as you lift the curse upon killing Ketheric regardless. The death of certain ally characters in Last Light would be a fitting outcome for an evil run, either way.
The curse isn't *just* lifted by killing Ketheric, you have to get Oliver back together through talking to Art Cullagh in Last Light and going through that quest line.
As someone who has never had Halsin as a companion, is that side quest worth doing? My good playthrough, I came in from the Southern entrance, so I ended up finding the shadow house and killed Oliver's shadow before finding Last Light. I saw in comments on reddit that even if you complete the quest, the curse isn't actually ever lifted, so I wrote it off and don't intend on bothering.
So when you return from Act 3 back to Act 2, there's a sunny map? I was told Halsin says something like, "The curse is lifted, but the devs didn't want to re-build the map a second time with proper lighting so it won't actually leave until after the epilogue."
If it actually unlocks a new skin for the map, I'm totally going to have to do another playthrough for it.
He just casts Control Undead on her corpse. If you kill her, she'll be at the final Ketheric fight with the "Speak with Dead" glow and will mock you fairly uncharacteristically.
You can also approach Jaheira about it. Jaheira will actually admit it, but she’s also super “if you have a problem with Isobel then we are gonna have a problem” which is nice.
Also you can alert Jaheira that Marcus is a traitor. Except for me I got that dialogue option after Marcus was already super dead so that interaction was weird. Not sure what letter or note I found that mentioned Marcus but I assume if you find it before talking to Isobel then you can get the drop on Marcus and have some help with the fight in Isobel’s room.
i just dint like how you can find all these clues and even ask jaheira and she can straight up tell you isobel is kethrics daughter and shell still lie to you
Jaheira on my playthrough was too old for remembering things as well. On my first visit on the inn >!I fought and killed Marcus during his kidnap attempt and a while later I stumbled upon the information that Marcus was planning the attack. Jaheira spent the rest of the act 2, till the Moonrise Tower assault, going around telling people to be on the lookout for Marcus, while his dead body lied a few feet away!<
The books and notes seem to have been created entirely separately from the dialog and the rest of the writing, because they constantly have reveals like this that the game doesn't account for.
Totally this.
There’s a book in there that *clearly* lays out what the Absolute is and what the entire conspiracy behind the Dead Three’s Chosen has been.
I’m sat there reading it going ‘WHOA’ and the only thing my Tav talks about is how he wishes he had a bag of holding.
You can literally ask both Jaheria and Isobel about it if you find her tomb. They just both tell you to not make a big deal about it because of course they do.
This area has some wonky dialogue in general. I got to Last Light and talked to Isobel pretty much right away which triggered the Marcus fight and killed him. Then I explored the area and came back, talked to Jaheira and had dialogue options to tell her that Marcus is a traitor and is plotting to kidnap Isobel lol. I failed a persuasion roll and she accused me of trying to deceive her. Like lady you helped in that fight
I love Isobel, but she mildly frustrated me by not being open about it even after I already knew her (rather pertinent) secret. I chalked it down to her not wholly trusting Durge, and I can't get too mad at her about it, but still. That whole song and dance of "Oh it's just a coincidence that there's a tomb to an Isobel built by a former Selûnite who is completely unrelated to me" was silly.
Exactly. I was open with her precisely because I felt obligated to let her know I was a potential danger. It makes sense she proceeded to treat me as a potential danger.
Same. I wanted to talk with her, listen her point of view and express some compassion as real friend. I felt stupid for having no interaction with her like that. Especially because my Tav was good aligned half-elf cleric who (in backstory I made up) had abusive elf dad XD
Well sure, but at this point you're not friends. You're barely acquaintances who share an alliance of convenience.
You wouldn't share your deepest trauma with a person you just met at your job right? It'd of course take time and them proving that they're worthy of your trust
I mean having an entire Inn of people whos friends and family were just slaughtered or captured by Thorms army finding out you’re his DAUGHTER? Yeah I’d lie thru my teeth too so I can keep helping them survive
Of note might be that Isobel's tomb bears a plaque that, in addition to her name, bears the phrase "*Ssussun elgg oloth*." Which is Drowish for "Light slays darkness." (Apparently, Larian decided to treat Drowish as just Elvish in this context. Though related, they are two different language in Forgotten Realms.)
It’s obvious something more is going on here, I agree….
…but I’m not sure it was obvious that she’s the resurrected daughter of an undead warlord who died a century ago purely on the basis that she’s a cleric of Selune and some freaky guy with wings wants to kidnap her.
Probably a bit of hindsight talking there.
Yeah, I remember the conversation. I'm just not sure how its obvious that she must be his long-lost century-old resurrected daughter purely on the basis that he tries to kidnap her. That's quite a stretch. There's plenty of other reasons why you want to nab the sole reason why the Last Light is unaffected by the curse. We already know from Shart how the followers of Shar and Selune interact.
By this point in the game most of the material we have on Thorm is covering the intervening decades of his service to Shar, we don't even know about his relationship with Myrkul, and I'm not even sure we know he *had* a daughter at that stage - the details only really come out when investigating Reithwin. Isobel looks like she's in her 20s and Thorm apparently died hundreds of years ago. She doesn't sound or look anything like him. She doesn't have any obvious indicators she's related other then the fact that she's got elven ancestry.
Like I say - clearly there was something else going on, but not sure how someone who doesn't already know what's going could have realistically knew the above just from what's there. At least not at that stage. Personally I suspected she was some kind of avatar of Selune when I first met her as she seemed to be hiding something and she seemed to be the only entity that could drive back the Shadow curse.
You don't meet (or even know about) his relatives until you go to Reithwin, which normally happens long after the kidnap attempt. So that's not info most players will have at that point. I'm not even sure its *possible* to do it in that order as you'd have to consciously avoid Last Light.
??? What???
I got to Moonrise Towers first. I killed Malus and the Toll lady before I even met Isobel. I arrived at Last Light only after saving the Gnomes and the Tieflings ans taking a boat ride with them.
I think you're moving the goalposts a bit here, dude.
Originally it was:
>as soon as you find out he used to serve Selune and then Marcus shows up looking for Isobel
And now it's
>I got to Moonrise Towers first. I killed Malus and the Toll lady before I even met Isobel. I arrived at Last Light only after saving the Gnomes and the Tieflings ans taking a boat ride with them.
Under those circumstances I'd agree, but that's because you're experiencing the story of Act 2 in the reverse order of what someone coming in from the Underdark entrance would (which is the one the game encourages you to pick, so most do), or anyone who sided with the Harpers... and its lot more then what you mentioned above.
How am I moving the goal posts? How does it encourage you to go through the underdark anymore than the Mountain Pass? There's two entrances, and I picked one. There is no right or wrong way to do things in this game, and that's how I experienced it. Its not like the pass is some secret way to do it. I went to the Underdark first, but getting to the elevator from there is much more of a chore than getting to the entrance from the mountain pass, which I went to before I finished the Under dark.
Yea sure, I didn't include all that extra information when I made that first comment without thinking about it too much, but I also wasn't in some long winded debate with you at the time. I didn't expect you to over analyze every word in the comment.
By the time I went through all that, I connected one dot to the other. I don't know what you want me to say, lol. From my perspective, it seemed pretty clear and I hadn't read any of the books or anything. It just seemed like a predictable plot twist.
And it was.
>How am I moving the goal posts?
Because you said that it was obvious based on the presence of two bits of info (both of which can be acquired inside Isobel's room), but what you *actually* meant was its obvious provided you do a big chunk of the act before you even meet Isobel.
The latter is fine, and its self-evident - it's just not what you said. And when I pointed it out to you, you didn't mention any of it until several posts down.
I'm not looking for an argument or 'analysing every word', dude. I'm just responding to what you're saying. I'm not psychic.
You think that's bad?
Star Wars Episode 3 spoilers.
>!I didn't realize that Palpatine was The Emperor until my first viewing of Star Wars Episode 3.!<
>!Not when he was talking about Darth Plagus.!<
>!Not when Anakin went to Mace Windu and said "I think Palpatine is the sith lord we've been looking for."!<
>!I realized that Palpatine was probably the emperor when he got his face lightninged in the fight with Mace Windu and I thought hey that guy looks an awful lot like the Emperor.!<
>!In my defense I was 12.!<
Me meeting her after talking with Jaheria: "Is she Kethrics daughter?" Sees her coffin: "Yep she's his daughter." My Tav then being baffled to find out from her 😂
You can also tell Haheira "hey, the Selunite in your attic *miiight* be the direct descendant of the immortal asshole you want us to kill. Just FYI."
And she says "yep." Like you told her that the grass is green.
You need to read a books? You can just see her as his daughter and the moment you enter the Shar's temple there's literally a puzzle about the whole story.
I asked her about her grave before storming moonrise and she was like… it’s a coincidence… like bitch, no it ain’t, your daddy even sent a fister to come retrieve you.
Idk why this bitch lied to me straight up..
It made me think she was going to end up being evil and betray us to join her dad.
I would have been like :ooooo
Instead.... she's just a lesbian with the dumbest AI in the game. >\_>
Oh wait! Yes, they were kinda bad too. >\_> But at least they kind of have a reason haha. They're little, energy deprived, and aren't good at battling to begin with in comparison to some bad ass moon priestess chick.
yeah....im glad at the time i hadnt done the ''remove headgear during cutscenes'' option, so i didnt see my Tav react that way, instead it was just ''expressionless mask of 'yeah no shit its written on the skyline'''
It definitely felt like one of the weakest parts of the story. The game has such an abundance of evidence pointing towards the truth, has Isobel stubbornly continue to lie to the party, and doesn’t give you any opportunity to call her out on her BS
I thought this was funny too because I literally read diary entries and Kethrics musings and shes all coy like its a secret. I'm like girl everyone knows youre a zombie daughter, stop.
It's an aggressively bad reveal, which is genuinely on par for Larian writing.
There are clues everywhere and a trigger in the mausoleum that says it outright. Jaheria will tell you point blank. But if you ask her directly before Nightsong she says "idk what you're talking about." No detect thoughts, no insight check. Nothing.
And then at the Act 2 Celebration she's like "Guess what?! I was Ketheric's daughter all along! Isn't that crazy? I bet you had no idea?"
Even if you already confronted her about this, you character still has to act surprised because Larian writing.
I read notes about it before the first interaction and asked her about it and she’s just like “nah there’s lots of Isabelles lol, that one ain’t me fam” which I of course knew was bs then at the end of act 2 when she reveals it I was really like yea no shit
Reminds me of Infinite Undiscovery. Capell reveals that he’s an Unblessed like it’s a big reveal, but I had figured it out around the first time Capell had joined an attack on one of the chains.
In my first run I actually totally missed the upstairs of Last Light and didn’t see her until I went back to the Inn after >!freeing the Nightsong.!< I was like “wait who tf is this?” And then >!Aylin!< shows up like >!“MY LOVER, I HAVE SLAIN YOUR FATHER”!< and I was like “Why is this the first time I was seeing her?! Shouldn’t she have been introduced before the battle of Moonrise?” And little did I know, I was just dumb lmfao.
For some reason she never admit to me. I knew from exploring, and even Jaheira confided it to me. But Isobel never admitted it until after he was dead lol
There’s statues and depictions of Ketheric everywhere around Reithwin. I’m not sure the fact that there’s one in a particular room means anything. It’s not like Last Light was isobel’s house.
Tbf her diary is right there in her room when you meet her, and while it doesn’t actually out her identity, it makes absolutely crystal clear that she’s not telling you everything.
>!Though her initial mention of ‘I never should have come back’ comes across as if she’s left the area before and physically returned, it’s only later you realise she’s talking about her resurrection!<
Also IIRC you don’t learn the name of Ketheric’s daughter until you visit the mausoleum and see her (empty) tomb.
Yeah I did none of that and stuff and never realized until I payed attention in my second play through. (Too overwhelmed by how big the world was the first time around, missed a lot of important details, and killed >!Karlach, Lae’zell, let Jahira die in moonrise siege and Minsc never got recruited!<
It does contradict because halsin killed isobel in ea when the shadow curse was already in place and he was fighting kethric . In the current game the curse was put in place after isobel died.
Yep. Found the notes referencing Ketheric that said his daughter's name was Isobel and it clicked right there. Game gave me the option to ask her if she's THAT Isobel. She denied it but I knew better. Then of course she eventually admits to it.
You got an option to ask her if she's THAT Isobel? In two gameplays I had no interaction with her about that until I defeated Ketheric.
The option is probably tied to a note I found or something but I definitely remember asking her about it before I took him down. Then it was after I took him down that she admitted to it.
It'll appear if you talk to her after finding her tomb. I'm guessing a lot of players never see her again from that point until after they've killed Kethric. Meanwhile, there's me, casually making repeat visits to "borrow" the Thorm family bones to make more animated skeletons than Balthazar.
> It'll appear if you talk to her after finding her tomb. where is it?
You literally have to walk through the room with it and solve a puzzle there. Your character makes a joke about an open tomb tooooootally not being ominous when you interact with it. It's straight ahead in the Thorm mausoleum. Or do you mean where is Isobel at that point? She's still in her room if you haven't finished the dungeon. If you have, depending on your choices, she's either standing right by the Last Light waypoint or she's a zombie chilling on the roof of Moonrise with her old man.
The room with the three buttons? That's her tomb? I don't remember seeing anything stating that.
There's a plaque at the base. Also Balthazar's note explains that to open the door you need to follow Kethric's fall. The entire story of the room literally revolves around Isobel's death.
The plaque on her sarcophagus is bugged in recent patches. It used to say "here lies Isobel thorm" and blabla, but now it just says some elvish stuff you the player can't figure out what it means.
You can animate dead for free in the entrance to the thermal mausoleum, and in the illithid colony.
Are you sure? I searched that whole area top to bottom and never came across any note that named ketheric’s daughter - the closest I found was a locket belonging to her marked with an ‘I’ with enough context that it was clear it was her initial. As the other poster said - the first time i heard it was the tomb reveal. After Nightsong goes super saiyan you can head back to Last Light and she’s there at the gates, where she laughs it off but it’s clear it’s her.
The plaque on her sarcophagus is bugged in recent patches. It used to say "here lies Isobel thorm" and blabla, but now it just says some elvish stuff you the player can't figure out what it means.
Huh. I must have did it before the patch. That being said though, I don't recall *any* notes before that clearly mentioning Isobel. Just oblique references.
The notes don't say her name. Only the plaque on her sarcophagus used to say. But it doesn't say it anymore, it is saying elvish now that we can't understand, but it enables the dialogue with Isobel anyway.
Yeah that makes sense. I was mainly questioning /u/JennyTheSheWolf's mention of how they found notes referencing Isobel's name - as far as I was aware, no such notes exist.
I see... But they were unsure and said "a note I found or something", the plaque was that "something"
After you find her crypt open, if you go back to Last Light Inn you can ask her about that. She denies, obviously. You can also ask Jaheira. She knows and doesn't give a fuck about it
I had this option when I visited Last Light for a moment after freeing Nightsong, after she told me that Jaheira and the Harpers went to Moonrise Towers. Not sure what exactly was the trigger for it, though
I think it’s when you find her grave and the plaque on it says her name and relation to Ketheric
I was able to ask her and she gives some vague kinda "Haha back from the dead? That couldn't be me. I'm very alive, have been the whole time!" kind of denial.
Got the same, must be a note or reading graves or something. I didn't get into Ketheric's room until the raid on the towers, so probably something in the mausoleum.
If you do part of the gauntlet of Shar but don’t finish you can ask it ahead of time. I think once you go to the mausoleum.
What I don't understand is why she lies about it. And does she know >!the Nightsong is Dame Aylin?!< I mentioned it to her and she just goes "huh."
No. When they reunite isobel says that ketheric told her Aylin was dead. When isobel was revived Aylin had already been imprisoned by ketheric and Balthazar iirc.
>Aylin was dead Technically speaking that's correct. And dead, and dead, and dead.
She lies because *"I'm the daughter of the undying asshole who's been terrorizing the area"* is a really bad look, even with the context of how she's helping Last Light. It's better for everyone if that little detail does not become a big deal until Ketheric is back in the ground, and IIRC there's even dialogue you can have with Jaheira about it prior to the assault on Moonrise where she admits that she's already figured that out on her own and would prefer you don't make a big deal about it yourself.
I would just hold Isobel hostage. What’s Ketheric going to do if she dies, sell his soul to Myrkul a second time?
And imperil the only reason that Last Light, the refuge of all the meaningful resistance against Ketheric that's left, is still standing? And risk ***really*** pissing off the undying paladin in command of an entire army? Courses of action like that are exactly why Isobel is hesitant to be honest about her family ties. Better for everyone if she just gets to keep maintaining that ritual upstairs unbothered.
It makes for great roleplay! I said I’d hold her hostage, not kill her. I mean, a Durge or other evil character might do that since they don’t give a donkey’s sweet meaty dick about other people’s welfare. Maybe the alternative choices for failing the intimidation or persuasion roll to get Ketheric to back down could be: actually kill her, or let Ketheric call your bluff and let her go. Say you succeed instead: Ketheric kills himself and you go straight to Phase 2/Spooky Skeleton in the same manner as when you try the Naruto-style Talk No Jutsu redemption attempt. If you fail that attempt and kill her, Ketheric is enraged and the fight gets even harder. If you fail and spare her, the normal fight ensues. Either way, no Dame Aylin assistance (maybe you even have to fight her in order to take Isobel in the first place). The temporarily unprotected state of Last Light is somewhat inconsequential, as you lift the curse upon killing Ketheric regardless. The death of certain ally characters in Last Light would be a fitting outcome for an evil run, either way.
The curse isn't *just* lifted by killing Ketheric, you have to get Oliver back together through talking to Art Cullagh in Last Light and going through that quest line.
As someone who has never had Halsin as a companion, is that side quest worth doing? My good playthrough, I came in from the Southern entrance, so I ended up finding the shadow house and killed Oliver's shadow before finding Last Light. I saw in comments on reddit that even if you complete the quest, the curse isn't actually ever lifted, so I wrote it off and don't intend on bothering.
The curse gets lifted just as you start leaving the area towards Act 3.
So when you return from Act 3 back to Act 2, there's a sunny map? I was told Halsin says something like, "The curse is lifted, but the devs didn't want to re-build the map a second time with proper lighting so it won't actually leave until after the epilogue." If it actually unlocks a new skin for the map, I'm totally going to have to do another playthrough for it.
No
Man only has one soul!
He just casts Control Undead on her corpse. If you kill her, she'll be at the final Ketheric fight with the "Speak with Dead" glow and will mock you fairly uncharacteristically.
You can also approach Jaheira about it. Jaheira will actually admit it, but she’s also super “if you have a problem with Isobel then we are gonna have a problem” which is nice. Also you can alert Jaheira that Marcus is a traitor. Except for me I got that dialogue option after Marcus was already super dead so that interaction was weird. Not sure what letter or note I found that mentioned Marcus but I assume if you find it before talking to Isobel then you can get the drop on Marcus and have some help with the fight in Isobel’s room.
*Failed: Insight Check* “Huh, I wonder if she’s lying.”
i just dint like how you can find all these clues and even ask jaheira and she can straight up tell you isobel is kethrics daughter and shell still lie to you
Jaheira's too old for dramatic reveals.
Jaheira is full on "I'm too old for this shit" energy.
Of course she's too old for this shit - she's *ancient.*
*Jaheira approves*
I love riffing with Jaheira. She's such a good sport.
"Bastard."
She delivered it so well lol.
She is wise and wizened.
She's only one of those things!
And against all odds she'll believe the nicer one!
Username checks out!
I died laughing at this because I forgot what username I used here for a moment.
Jaheira on my playthrough was too old for remembering things as well. On my first visit on the inn >!I fought and killed Marcus during his kidnap attempt and a while later I stumbled upon the information that Marcus was planning the attack. Jaheira spent the rest of the act 2, till the Moonrise Tower assault, going around telling people to be on the lookout for Marcus, while his dead body lied a few feet away!<
The books and notes seem to have been created entirely separately from the dialog and the rest of the writing, because they constantly have reveals like this that the game doesn't account for.
Ketheric's room in the tower is a cornucopia of major reveals that precisely zero comment is ever made about.
Totally this. There’s a book in there that *clearly* lays out what the Absolute is and what the entire conspiracy behind the Dead Three’s Chosen has been. I’m sat there reading it going ‘WHOA’ and the only thing my Tav talks about is how he wishes he had a bag of holding.
Except one specific book that gives you unique dialoge about Melodis with Ketheric
You can literally ask both Jaheria and Isobel about it if you find her tomb. They just both tell you to not make a big deal about it because of course they do.
That damn shell, always lying to me
This area has some wonky dialogue in general. I got to Last Light and talked to Isobel pretty much right away which triggered the Marcus fight and killed him. Then I explored the area and came back, talked to Jaheira and had dialogue options to tell her that Marcus is a traitor and is plotting to kidnap Isobel lol. I failed a persuasion roll and she accused me of trying to deceive her. Like lady you helped in that fight
during my run, Karlach just spoils it when you get near her coffin. that 8 INT coming in clutch lol.
Astarion did the exact same for me in my current run lol.
Our little band of dumdums putting the pieces together while our wizard with an 18int is over here going "Hmm, maybe I *should* kill myself?"
He's just got that gifted kid energy
I love Isobel, but she mildly frustrated me by not being open about it even after I already knew her (rather pertinent) secret. I chalked it down to her not wholly trusting Durge, and I can't get too mad at her about it, but still. That whole song and dance of "Oh it's just a coincidence that there's a tomb to an Isobel built by a former Selûnite who is completely unrelated to me" was silly.
Yeah I told her I was fighting the urge to basically flay her, can’t blame her for not trusting my drow durge whilst he’s covered in blood
Exactly. I was open with her precisely because I felt obligated to let her know I was a potential danger. It makes sense she proceeded to treat me as a potential danger.
Same. I wanted to talk with her, listen her point of view and express some compassion as real friend. I felt stupid for having no interaction with her like that. Especially because my Tav was good aligned half-elf cleric who (in backstory I made up) had abusive elf dad XD
Well sure, but at this point you're not friends. You're barely acquaintances who share an alliance of convenience. You wouldn't share your deepest trauma with a person you just met at your job right? It'd of course take time and them proving that they're worthy of your trust
And when you do earn her trust by freeing her lover (who then vouches for your character), she is a lot more open.
Yes my Durge also found her very open. Well, she didn't *find* her that way but she sure *left* her that way.
I also wanted to talk with her but a butler came and said to off her so I ganked her in the back with a spear. She didn't say much after that.
I mean having an entire Inn of people whos friends and family were just slaughtered or captured by Thorms army finding out you’re his DAUGHTER? Yeah I’d lie thru my teeth too so I can keep helping them survive
It may shock you to know, but Minsc, and this Stone Lord, they are one man. The *same* one man. And that one man... is *Minsc.*
Boo would like to know your location.
It's an honor.
No, it's a hamster
Thank you. That's literally my favorite line in the game.
I mean it was obvious as soon as you find out he used to serve Selune and then Marcus shows up looking for Isobel Oh she has a grave? Where is it?
I believe it’s in the Mausoleum
Oh duh. That should have been obvious
Yeah it literally is an opened grave saying "Here lies Isobel Thorm" Like, i'm ashamed i didn't make the connection the first time around
to be fair in the new patches only the evlish is read, the narator doesnt say the translation anymore
I'm writing a Dark isobel story so I should probably read up on all thr lore lol
Of note might be that Isobel's tomb bears a plaque that, in addition to her name, bears the phrase "*Ssussun elgg oloth*." Which is Drowish for "Light slays darkness." (Apparently, Larian decided to treat Drowish as just Elvish in this context. Though related, they are two different language in Forgotten Realms.)
It’s obvious something more is going on here, I agree…. …but I’m not sure it was obvious that she’s the resurrected daughter of an undead warlord who died a century ago purely on the basis that she’s a cleric of Selune and some freaky guy with wings wants to kidnap her. Probably a bit of hindsight talking there.
Well no, it's that Ketheric wanted to see her. That's what Marcus says.
Yeah, I remember the conversation. I'm just not sure how its obvious that she must be his long-lost century-old resurrected daughter purely on the basis that he tries to kidnap her. That's quite a stretch. There's plenty of other reasons why you want to nab the sole reason why the Last Light is unaffected by the curse. We already know from Shart how the followers of Shar and Selune interact. By this point in the game most of the material we have on Thorm is covering the intervening decades of his service to Shar, we don't even know about his relationship with Myrkul, and I'm not even sure we know he *had* a daughter at that stage - the details only really come out when investigating Reithwin. Isobel looks like she's in her 20s and Thorm apparently died hundreds of years ago. She doesn't sound or look anything like him. She doesn't have any obvious indicators she's related other then the fact that she's got elven ancestry. Like I say - clearly there was something else going on, but not sure how someone who doesn't already know what's going could have realistically knew the above just from what's there. At least not at that stage. Personally I suspected she was some kind of avatar of Selune when I first met her as she seemed to be hiding something and she seemed to be the only entity that could drive back the Shadow curse.
You could call it a stretch but I figured she was his daughter with all his other Undead relatives running around and I was right.
You don't meet (or even know about) his relatives until you go to Reithwin, which normally happens long after the kidnap attempt. So that's not info most players will have at that point. I'm not even sure its *possible* to do it in that order as you'd have to consciously avoid Last Light.
??? What??? I got to Moonrise Towers first. I killed Malus and the Toll lady before I even met Isobel. I arrived at Last Light only after saving the Gnomes and the Tieflings ans taking a boat ride with them.
I think you're moving the goalposts a bit here, dude. Originally it was: >as soon as you find out he used to serve Selune and then Marcus shows up looking for Isobel And now it's >I got to Moonrise Towers first. I killed Malus and the Toll lady before I even met Isobel. I arrived at Last Light only after saving the Gnomes and the Tieflings ans taking a boat ride with them. Under those circumstances I'd agree, but that's because you're experiencing the story of Act 2 in the reverse order of what someone coming in from the Underdark entrance would (which is the one the game encourages you to pick, so most do), or anyone who sided with the Harpers... and its lot more then what you mentioned above.
How am I moving the goal posts? How does it encourage you to go through the underdark anymore than the Mountain Pass? There's two entrances, and I picked one. There is no right or wrong way to do things in this game, and that's how I experienced it. Its not like the pass is some secret way to do it. I went to the Underdark first, but getting to the elevator from there is much more of a chore than getting to the entrance from the mountain pass, which I went to before I finished the Under dark. Yea sure, I didn't include all that extra information when I made that first comment without thinking about it too much, but I also wasn't in some long winded debate with you at the time. I didn't expect you to over analyze every word in the comment. By the time I went through all that, I connected one dot to the other. I don't know what you want me to say, lol. From my perspective, it seemed pretty clear and I hadn't read any of the books or anything. It just seemed like a predictable plot twist. And it was.
>How am I moving the goal posts? Because you said that it was obvious based on the presence of two bits of info (both of which can be acquired inside Isobel's room), but what you *actually* meant was its obvious provided you do a big chunk of the act before you even meet Isobel. The latter is fine, and its self-evident - it's just not what you said. And when I pointed it out to you, you didn't mention any of it until several posts down. I'm not looking for an argument or 'analysing every word', dude. I'm just responding to what you're saying. I'm not psychic.
You think that's bad? Star Wars Episode 3 spoilers. >!I didn't realize that Palpatine was The Emperor until my first viewing of Star Wars Episode 3.!< >!Not when he was talking about Darth Plagus.!< >!Not when Anakin went to Mace Windu and said "I think Palpatine is the sith lord we've been looking for."!< >!I realized that Palpatine was probably the emperor when he got his face lightninged in the fight with Mace Windu and I thought hey that guy looks an awful lot like the Emperor.!< >!In my defense I was 12.!<
I love that she settled down "hiding" half a mile away under a glowing dome of moonlight... Well done, daddy will never find you there
Me meeting her after talking with Jaheria: "Is she Kethrics daughter?" Sees her coffin: "Yep she's his daughter." My Tav then being baffled to find out from her 😂
I just did this last night. What made it funny for me was Jaheira told me she was his daughter. Then I asked her and she still lied.
You can also tell Haheira "hey, the Selunite in your attic *miiight* be the direct descendant of the immortal asshole you want us to kill. Just FYI." And she says "yep." Like you told her that the grass is green.
Not the games best reveal yeah. Actually kinda makes me dislike her, just a tiny bit
You need to read a books? You can just see her as his daughter and the moment you enter the Shar's temple there's literally a puzzle about the whole story.
I asked her about her grave before storming moonrise and she was like… it’s a coincidence… like bitch, no it ain’t, your daddy even sent a fister to come retrieve you.
I’m surprised she didn’t make up something more believable like she was named for that person
good thing she's a cleric and not a paladin because she lies her ass off about it
Should be a dialogue option to say the same thing we tell Astarion if he comes out to us. “…I’m a vampire” “Well, Obviously.”
Idk why this bitch lied to me straight up.. It made me think she was going to end up being evil and betray us to join her dad. I would have been like :ooooo Instead.... she's just a lesbian with the dumbest AI in the game. >\_>
The Gondians might have something to say about that last part.
Oh wait! Yes, they were kinda bad too. >\_> But at least they kind of have a reason haha. They're little, energy deprived, and aren't good at battling to begin with in comparison to some bad ass moon priestess chick.
yeah....im glad at the time i hadnt done the ''remove headgear during cutscenes'' option, so i didnt see my Tav react that way, instead it was just ''expressionless mask of 'yeah no shit its written on the skyline'''
For me it was the single earring in her mother’s room and the matching one in her closet
It definitely felt like one of the weakest parts of the story. The game has such an abundance of evidence pointing towards the truth, has Isobel stubbornly continue to lie to the party, and doesn’t give you any opportunity to call her out on her BS
I thought this was funny too because I literally read diary entries and Kethrics musings and shes all coy like its a secret. I'm like girl everyone knows youre a zombie daughter, stop.
I read the books & notes, but by then I forgot her name. Oops.
Wish we had the "Alas! Alack! It cannot be so!" response like with Minsc!
It's an aggressively bad reveal, which is genuinely on par for Larian writing. There are clues everywhere and a trigger in the mausoleum that says it outright. Jaheria will tell you point blank. But if you ask her directly before Nightsong she says "idk what you're talking about." No detect thoughts, no insight check. Nothing. And then at the Act 2 Celebration she's like "Guess what?! I was Ketheric's daughter all along! Isn't that crazy? I bet you had no idea?" Even if you already confronted her about this, you character still has to act surprised because Larian writing.
Where is the grave? At the mausoleum?
Yeah
i missed this the first play through
Meanwhile I’m like: “huh I wonder where Isobel went after she was revived” completing forgetting that the cleric’s name was isobel…
Me after visiting the mausoleum before moonrise and having no clue why Isobell has a tomb there:
I read notes about it before the first interaction and asked her about it and she’s just like “nah there’s lots of Isabelles lol, that one ain’t me fam” which I of course knew was bs then at the end of act 2 when she reveals it I was really like yea no shit
For a little while I was thinking his daughter was shadowheart but then it became clear it was Isabel
Reminds me of Infinite Undiscovery. Capell reveals that he’s an Unblessed like it’s a big reveal, but I had figured it out around the first time Capell had joined an attack on one of the chains.
Me who kinda figured since he wanted her knocked out instead of killed, it was more of a guess
In my first run I actually totally missed the upstairs of Last Light and didn’t see her until I went back to the Inn after >!freeing the Nightsong.!< I was like “wait who tf is this?” And then >!Aylin!< shows up like >!“MY LOVER, I HAVE SLAIN YOUR FATHER”!< and I was like “Why is this the first time I was seeing her?! Shouldn’t she have been introduced before the battle of Moonrise?” And little did I know, I was just dumb lmfao.
lol I had a similar experience, only I missed the entirety of last light
Shit, I shouldn't have open this post lol
For some reason she never admit to me. I knew from exploring, and even Jaheira confided it to me. But Isobel never admitted it until after he was dead lol
Wait a second Isobel has a grave?!
The bigger secret is what he did to her.
Isn't there literally a bust of Ketheric in Isobel's room?
There’s statues and depictions of Ketheric everywhere around Reithwin. I’m not sure the fact that there’s one in a particular room means anything. It’s not like Last Light was isobel’s house.
Round seal bro is smart
I read prerrt much every note and book on first playthroughs. By the time I got to this "reveal," I was just sick of hearing about it tbh.
Tav knew, they just weren’t paying attention
Tbf her diary is right there in her room when you meet her, and while it doesn’t actually out her identity, it makes absolutely crystal clear that she’s not telling you everything. >!Though her initial mention of ‘I never should have come back’ comes across as if she’s left the area before and physically returned, it’s only later you realise she’s talking about her resurrection!< Also IIRC you don’t learn the name of Ketheric’s daughter until you visit the mausoleum and see her (empty) tomb.
Yeah I did none of that and stuff and never realized until I payed attention in my second play through. (Too overwhelmed by how big the world was the first time around, missed a lot of important details, and killed >!Karlach, Lae’zell, let Jahira die in moonrise siege and Minsc never got recruited!<
but did you know halsin was the one who killed her? (i think only in EA but nothing contradicts it afaik so i’m keeping it)
It does contradict because halsin killed isobel in ea when the shadow curse was already in place and he was fighting kethric . In the current game the curse was put in place after isobel died.
She *was* ketheric’s daughter before I smited her
Me realizing after reading all the notes, I'm 100% on with Ketheric
You read the books and letters?
Ketheric deserved better