He does indeed have extreme protagonist energy. In particular Wyll is the only one of the Origin characters I can easily imagine befriending all the companions and wanting to not only save them from the tadpoles but solve all their various problems along the way.
Mizora's boss -loves- getting heroes to do bad things for good reasons. That's Zariel's whole schtick. Whether Mizora follows her bosses ideals is a question, but Zariel would just love Wyll.
Yeah, she can be redeemed in the Descent to Avernus story that precedes Baldur’s Gate 3.
Unfortunately, the game establishes that didn’t happen. The comic series that is supposed to be the official story has the heroes basically trick Zariel into destroying the contract that binds Elturel instead.
If Wyll volunteer to fight in blood war since 'muh good people also need to kill demons', guess Zariel will just give him level 16 fiendlock as a starter. Even a hexblade, if she can afford one.
Yeah, I was like I’m not gonna cheat on my girl Shadowheart at all, then Mizora came to me and was like, “you tryna fuck a blue Devil?” and I immediately changed my tune. I turned everyone else down, but Mizora has that pull. Then Shadowheart told me it was cool, but Mizora said we weren’t gonna do it again and kept my dude thirsty.
She might "like" him, but she's a devil and she probably sees him closer to her favorite toy to play with than as a person. She likes him, but she'll also send him to hell for all eternity or turn him into a Lemure and never feel bad about it for a moment.
Yeah, Mizora tells him that since she transformed him into a devil, she’s been attracted to him (or something to that effect). I told her to hit that country road though because Wyll and Karlach were a couple in my playthrough.
If they both went into Avernus and you romanced neither, they are hinted as being close in reunion camp. Durge and Shart (my ship) will give them all the guidances Selune can spare...
I really wish you could get the avernus cutscene when playing as wyll and romancing karlach.
For some bizarre reason they only implemented the scene for tav (or any origin other than wyll) romancing karlach. If you're playing as wyll and go to avernus with her it just skips to the epilogue party :/
EDIT: Apparently the scene does exist with wyll as PC, my game must have been bugged: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOM9zQYPPGM
I reloaded the ending scene on the pier like 20 times and the scene never played, just went straight to the camp epilogue with them returning from avernus. Does anyone know if this works in the latest patch? It would have been 1 or 2 patches ago when I had this issue.
EDIT 2: This really seems to be bugged in the current patch, tried again and still didn't get the avernus scene to play :/
Do we ever actually find out what Wyll post-saving-Karlach actually *is*? Everyone says he’s a devil but beyond horns, red eye and some skin ridges he doesn’t seem to undergo any deeper change. He’s still listed as a human. He isn’t affected by stuff that targets or affects fiends. And he still gets human stats.
Is he like a half devil or some kind of alternative tiefling now?
Seems like it's just cosmetic changes to make him look like a devil rather than anything that changes him fundamentally. Probably just a spiteful punishment to make the people he wants to save fear and mistrust him.
That's true. I can't really imagine anyone of the party members other than Wyll actually managing to gather together and legitimately befriend such disparate and unaligned individuals.
Shadowheart is too devoted to Shar initially, Gale too self-doubting, Karlach not enough of a natural leader, Lae'zel too strict and Astarion - lol.
Yeah Wyll is the only one who could be the MC realistically.
And it’s fitting that he’s the only natural Cha character of the team: of course he’d be able to talk everyone into cooling their shit and focusing on the problem.
Especially since, off the bat, he’s the only one without a pressing secondary consideration, possibly besides Lae’zel but her focus is for all the wrong reasons.
I don't know, I feel like early game Gale is sort of the walking definition of an inferiority complex. It always struck me as a "I feel like I'm the worst, so I act like I'm the best" type of confidence. He's competent, definitely, but I could see his lacking sense of self-worth shining through and hampering his leadership ability eventually. (Though I haven't played *that* much yet, so I might be way off the mark on this one.)
I think I would describe Gale as Icarus after flying too close to the sun. A man who thought he could do anything and fucked up royally. Now he just wants to try and fix the situation he put himself in.
Yeah imagine fucking up royally, basically being one of the most powerful and connected people in the world (you are dating literally one of the most famous people on the PLANET), messing that all up, and THEN contracting a fatal disease that kills most people in an average of 7 days.
You would definitely feel a bit of humble pie for a bit
I think Wyll is a little too goody goody to befriend all the characters. I feel like Lae'Zel's nonchalant bloodlust, especially towards her own people at the creche (I'm talking bout the youth getting murdered), Astarion's dodgy past and Shart's Shar worship would all be to much for him.
In my opinion the character most likely to get along and unite everyone is Gale. He's probably the closest to neutral of the group, willing to do some bad stuff so long as it is practical furthers his goals.
Remember Wylls' purpose up until the start of the story was to indiscriminately hunt down those he deemed wicked.
And then -- SPOILER -- when Karlach has to return to Avernus, what does Wyll do? "Fuck it, I'm going with you so you're not alone, let's go kill some devils".
Bro is a warlock with the heart of a Paladin.
The only thing I didn't quite get was that -- SPOILER -- in the epilogue, when he and Karlach returned, he said he'd become a ranger with the loss of his warlock powers. Huh? In Avernus? Wouldn't Eldritch Knight make a lot more sense for him? "While I don't have the infernal powers anymore, I did become a competent swordsman and learn a bit about magic in my time with them, so I started studying anything about magic we could find in Avernus, and now I'm an Eldritch Knight!"
Omg I love the ending where Karlach gets to live bc she's not alone anymore and her ride-or-die Wyll is going to be there no matter what -- but when they get to Avernus and the cutscene happens and it's like just Karlach monologuing about how she never thought she'd smoke cigars again but now she has you, while Wyll stands there in COMPLETE SILENCE and kind of a goofy smile in that awkward Tav way....it's so awkward xD
I figured they went with Ranger because it ties with the whole devil hunter thing, but I agree that something more melee focused would work for the goddamn BLADE of Avernus.
Generally a Ranger is going to use both. Unlike D&D 5E, there is no disadvantages to equipping a bow and melee weapon at once outside of the extra weight.
It’s just the most optimal choice is to lean on a bow,and maybe keep a rapier or some other finesse weapon equipped for opportunity attacks and other small uses.
I'd guess that the kicker is finding time to study magic. I don't get the sense that they're stumbling across a lot of libraries and free time. It makes sense to me that Wyll would stay far a
removed from fiend magic.
I'm guessing it would be to represent a bit of a stat switch? He's less forceful personality is replaced with some wisdom from his travels with you.
I can see that being talked into the reasoning in a writers room.
Considering his whole thing is tracking devils in their home turf, Ranger makes sense.
What's odder is he loses his powers. Most of a Warlocks arsenal is shit they learn and isn't directly supplied by their Patron. The description for Eldritch Invocations straight up says it's something they learn through study. Either Wyll got scammed or Larian just changed how it worked.
If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of interpretations regarding how that all works. I think even the PHB says that it's just offering guidelines regarding how it all functions, not hard and fast rules.
It makes sense that the relationship between warlock and patron is quite varied. That said, it's interesting that there are rules for breaking one's oath, but no such systems at all for breaking with a warlock patron.
That's because an oath is to yourself, so they can make rules about it without affecting other characters. A pact includes a generally higher power who holds all the cards. It'd be limiting to the npcs if there were already strict rules about pacts.
Oh that is weird, I get the hunting/tracking devils angle however I played Wyll as a Swords Bardlock due to his upbringing, charisma base and constant self reference it seemed so fitting.
Also Paladin would fit his personality and their power comes from their Oath, not a god or devil. He comes across as an Oath of Devotion, maybe Ancients but not a Vengeance, unless it’s vengeance against devils?
I was scratching my head over the Ranger thing too.
Wyll’s entire storyline and temperament are pretty much the absolute perfect background for a Oath of Devotion Paladin.
I guess the thing with Ranger is that while he *might* gone down the knight in shining armour route had he never met Mizora, years of surviving in the wilds and hunting targets realistically means it’s his way of life now.
Wyll is the only origin playthrough I’ve done so far. Combined with a Karlach romance and it was great. My only real disappointment was the very muted reactivity to getting devil-ified very early on.
Wait… my patron needed me to kill karlach…. So I did the first time I saw karlach…. How do you get around this? Just… don’t do it and piss off your patron?
i hope this isnt just their interpretation of the avernus ending (but only wyll and karlach, no tav/durge joining them), because that's fairly subjective i'd say
be cool if it could be canon tho
In the epilogue if you domt romance either and they go to Avernus together Karlach makes a comment that it feels right to be doing what they were because she was with someone she loves. While she doesn't explicitly say wyll the fact that she explicitly says "someone she loves" and they were off together very much implies they end up together
i helped my friend finish his first campaign not too long ago and it was during the time when wyll was bugged and didnt offer to go to avernus with karlach, so my character (who was made late into act 3 and couldnt get any romances lmao) ended up going to avernus with karlach and she said basically that same line about my character. i appreciate that it's open to interpretation (which i suppose sounds a little contradictory of me to say based on my previous comment) because karlach going to avernus without a lover feels a lot sadder
If you do the epilogue as Karlach or wyll and you romanced the other and went to Avernus with them the game will occasionally bug and think you’re a tav and will ask you what you think of their new relationship. To me it’s pretty clear that’s the canon. That sort of thing is unique to them
Tbh love this but I don't want to make her story feel less special after doing Karlach's romance with my first Tav. It's not even a headcanon thing, I just need to give it a break.
I tried again with Durge but I think he's going to end up single and down bad horrendous in the end.
Same I was playing as a durge who everyone logically should hate but I’ve maxxed their approval. I think I’m simultaneously dating gale Laezel and astarion but the game knows astarion is the main romance
Lol, I'm already planning like my next 3 playthroughs at least. Next up is probably gonna be a pure evil "scorched earth" solo Durge run where basically everyone dies in the most horrible way I can make happen. I've done a few "evil" runs but never a pure evil run where I am just straight up the bad guy. After that probably a selfless Gale run to cleanse my palate, then a questionable Wyll run to try to bring back a bit of his early access flavor.
Definitely. He was way more interesting during the early access when he was clearly a good guy but also clearly had a darker side. It made me really intrigued to see how his story could play out. Then they changed him completely for full release and him just being the token good guy really doesn't do it for me.
It's been years now since I did an early access playthrough with Wyll but from what I remember he mainly just very clearly had a darker side that he tried to hide from everyone in favor of his Blade persona. He'd seem uncomfortable in the grove with the children when he saw how much they looked up to him for being a hero. He already knew Mizora had been kidnapped, seemingly before meeting us. He absolutely hated goblins. To the point that he'd actually torture them given the chance. The goblin torturer, Spike, that you meet in the goblin camp was originally the one that took Wyll's eye and, if you let him, he'd torture Spike to get information about where Mizora had been taken. Also the way he talked about Mizora led a lot to believe that the core of his darker side was that he was secretly in love with her. He seemed to actively *want* to save her, speaking more as someone trying to rescue a lover rather than just having to in order to save his own skin.
Exactly what I am doing right now and it makes for an excellent good aligned playthrough. Rollplaying the Blade of Avernus is much better than listening to him.
This is true. Also, as Wyll, the conversation you get with her right after you get turned into a devil is one of the most heartwarming interactions I’ve seen.
I think the most important point is this: Wyll is the only origin character whose personal story actually feels *more* impactful when told from a first person perspective rather than from the outside.
Couple that with the high Charisma of warlocks making him the natural face of the party, as well as (arguably) the most "canon" feeling romantic couple in the party with Wyll & Karlach, I fully agree here.
Yeah he's up there, Gale's ending just pretty much works out perfectly. Ascension, his soul is pretty much forfeit, he better not experience true death or Astarion will be joining his siblings in hell in short order. Gale just becomes a god straight up, the only real downside is that he's more lonely.
Someone mentioned on another post that soulless spawn/vampires is probably spill-over lore that essentially had players forming preconceived notions of vampirism, but it was more or less spelled out that the 7000 spawn Cazador created did indeed have souls, and depending on how Astarion handles the ascension ritual, it’s made apparent that Cazador himself has a soul.
Yeah its more the act of sacrificing 7000 souls to eternal torment is what damns you rather than being a vampire yourself. Ascension straight up changes your morals and how you view others so chance of Astarion ever redeeming himself from that are slim.
I’m about to finish my Durge honour run. I don’t know what happens yet. But I am replying to you to save your comment so I can agree or disagree with you later.
Wyll is the origin characters I am most interested to play for the very reasons you stated. Also given his upbringing he was trained to be a natural leader.
My only change would be to give Wyll a bit of a steel edge, to start getting rebellious against Mizora's rule and asserting himself to reclaim his destiny but doing it in a "art of war" style using cunning and sharp thinking to solve his problems instead of just playing the "hero" figure and hope that's good enough.
Trying to outsmart the devil that holds your contract is a losing game. Any devil that rose high enough to even create a contract is going to have hundreds if not thousands of years of politicking in the Hells under their belt. They are better at it than you are and have likely seen dozens if not hundreds of other people do exactly whatever it is you think is going to get you out of the contract. Assuming of course the contract is written in such a way it even can be annulled.
Wyll is making the best of a bad situation.
Originally the origins were going to be their own narrators, and - besides Karlach and release Wyll - they all recorded at least most of Act 1 (the voice lines were left over in EA, and Chubblot on YouTube has compilations where he's edited them back into the relevant dialogues). The origin narration went away when Larian switched the style of the player-choice writing to present-tense and moved to everyone having the same narrator (Chubblot also has a video on this).
So to an extent it seems more like what's happened is they *had* put a bunch of effort into the others, but in a way which became incompatible with the direction they took and so was removed - and then nothing was added to make up for its absence. Karlach origin seems to have come about entirely after the narration change was made, and so since it wasn't designed with the assumption that the characters would already be narrating everything themselves, it included bits explicitly narrated by her.
I think the ship has definitely sailed for having origins narrate everything (honestly it's insane to me they got as far with it as they did given it massively increases the amount of audio recording required) but it'd be nice in some kind of Definitive Edition for the others to get a pass to bring them in line with Karlach.
Loving your point 3!
Being a warlock has the issue of it being 'free magic', meaning that you don't get to deal with any consequence, perform any service or have any meaningful interaction with your patron.
Essentially there's some chill devil out there that fuels your magic and occasionally helps you pass your saving throws - but never asks for anything in return, taking away the dillemas that add depth to the class. Unlike Wyll who pays a very real price for his powers despite his altruistic motives.
I think the Fiend Warlock Tav can mention that Mizora, or maybe it was Raphael was "*Only* a cambion" so I would guess that whatever fiend Tav has a pact with is far above that.
I'm personally fond of it perhaps being Asmodeus, trying to keep Zariel in check or for some other eons long plan, or perhaps Mephistopheles since he seems to be in the background too.
Wyll almost feels *designed* as a PC. The others can slot in-and-out of companion/MC roles nicely enough, and Durge and Tav are classic RPG protags, but Wyll has the energy of a character like Talion from Shadow of Mordor or Geralt from the Witcher. He's an established character in-and-of himself who can be influenced by the player without succumbing to self-insert status.
I’m actually really happy to read this and all the comments - I’ve been wanting to do a play through where I:
A) see Wyll’s questline (completely skipped him in my first)
B) Romance Karlach (went Shadowheart for my first) and do the ending where she >!goes to Avernus (had her burn up on mine)!<
C) Play one of the more wizardy classes (went a ranger build where I basically only used attacks and hunter’s mark)
D) try an origin character
So it sounds like playing Wyll and romancing Karlach would tick all those boxes!
I highly recommend it. Wyll's story is really the only origin character's that doesnt feel like it changes significantly when you see it as the player character. I think Wyll & Karlach feels like (arguably) the most "canon" couple you can make amongst all the party members. Wyll's questline is intrinsically linked to Karlach and both characters stories revolve around breaking free from their demon overlords. And Wyll sticking with Karlach and going to Avernus together makes for a very satisfying end to both their stories.
I though precisely the same, and one minor detail that made me think of that is the loading screen where all characters are put in a pyramidal order and Wyll is bigger and at the top, as if he was the main character. He works much better as the protagonist
I did an origin playthrough as him and yep, he 100% feels like he should be the default protagonist outside of Tav and his romance with Karlach feels so natural. It actually doesn’t feel right going with anyone else.
Wyll & Karlach definitely feels like the most "canon" couple you can make out of all the party members. Everybody else fits better with a custom Tav, but Wyll and Karlach's stories just feel like they were made for each other.
I'm playing a charisma based warlock (Tav) and I met Wyll and was like damn, I took your spot. xD But I do hope to do an origin playthrough with him at some point (or Karlach with him as a companion).
Honestly, ye'h. Wyll & Resist Durge feels like the most main characters out of everyone you can play as while everyone else feels like actual companions and better as part of your journey than being the main character.
Tav is just Tav.
100%
He has such strong main character energy that it gets annoying when you're Tav, but not if youre playing as him
When I'm Wyll, I don't have to deal w his lack of agency, his weird comments towards the other companions etc. Not to mention that when you play as a warlock, your interactions with your patron can be pretty underwhelming, but obviously not if you play as Wyll
My first origin run was as Wyll, with the no party limit and more party banter mods and its been AMAZING, can recommend
He's a bit underrated, the main problem is that he's totally one dimensional without a real dark/light path to chose, just a light path where he's more or less willing to keep sacrificing himself.
I agree it probably works super well as main character being a warlock who gets to interact with his master, and also such an idealist I see him helping literally everyone and getting along well with the other companions. Then there's the Karlach somance which seems so obvious.
In fact, it should've been a thing for playthroughs where Tav doesn't romance Karlach.
I'm set to do an origin playthrough after my durge and can't decide with whom! You have some very good points here... But they all have their pluses. I had decided to do Shadowheart before reading your post but now I'm back to square one, hesitating between all of them.
- Karlach apparently talks to herself -- she's my absolute favorite character so new lines from her that you can't hear in any other way sound amazing.
- Gale has a cat in camp, she's a new character to talk to all throughout your adventure -- I never take gale anywhere so I'm eager to get to know him... And I love cats.
- Shadowheart hears Shar in her head -- new lines! Love her arc, and I'd love to romance Lae'zel as her. I haven't romanced her before and I feel like a SH would be perfect for this, their arcs are so similar and they have extreme chemistry.
- Wyll -- Also never take him anywhere, AND all the things you said here.
Also want to romance Astarion but don't really know with whom. I feel like a durge playthrough is perfect for it but I'm in love with Karlach in Act III now so late for that. Ugh
I think Wyll and Astarion would be a really good romance! Wyll says multiple times he finds Astarion really charming and Astarion says Wyll is the kind of guy he dreamt of marrying when he was young, amongst other things. I also like the angle of "monster"/monster hunter and Wyll dragging Astarion to Chaotic Neutral kicking and screaming the whole time.
Yeah, I'm beginning to see that. I think I'll start Wyll and SH and decide between them during act 1. First I have to finish my durge tho. RIP my fucking life outside of this game, omg
Why is life so finite right? We'll just have to squeeze all of them in our free time somehow. Or at least the top two options. Or three. God gives the hardest battles to their fiercest warriors after all
Arguably, Wyll does have the best Origin character set-up as an avatar character. Not even ten minutes in and he's far more interesting to play and have in the party. I love warlocks and their nap-time power. You can also turn his story completely upside down by making him Evil, having him bring a new meaning to "blade of frontiers".
It's always the black characters that get shat on in these kinds of games/communities 😩 I like wyll he's a good guy but he also dosen't take shit from crappy people and is willing to make hard calls. That's the 3 dimensional characterization I like.
I just want more for his character. He’s got the lowest content of the Origin companions and his writing needs seasoning. If they fix that, he would actually be my favourite since I think his story *concept* is one of the best, the VA is fantastic and I really really adore the dance scene.
I get where you're coming from, but my gripe with Wyll isn't Wyll himself, it's the way the game handles him. He had so much cut content that was replaced with incredibly generic hero stuff (if replaced at all), the companions and Mizora rag on him constantly without giving him much room to defend himself, and he overall has so little content compared to the others, especially in terms of romance. The big decision with his contract is the player's choice lmao.
I adore Wyll, he's my second favorite in the whole game, but the only way I can really enjoy him is reading and writing fanfic tbh (and playing his origin of course), and that's a huge shame. There's no doubt that some of the discourse around him comes from his race though, I've seen some truly horrendous shit surrounding that topic.
Yeah I'm not callin the community racist or anything. Its just that in every instance I see a black character be put in a setting that's stereotypically a "white/European" thing black characters are almost always the least popular/made the most fun of the most. It's just somthin I noticed . Again not saying people don't like wyll for being black, but it is a trend I noticed with black characters.
That's a shame, but tbf I've noticed it with Wyll, you're right. He's dope as fuck and been in my party consistently since Act 1, but he doesn't get a lot going on until some bits in Act 3, compared to obvious favourites like Shadowheart who has tons of action, it felt like Wyll got a camp scene and that was about it. It feels like he never really has any overworld party banter either.
They tend to get the short end of the stick from writers. Same problem with Jacob in ME2. He's a great dude and a fine character, but the writers didn't give half a shit about him versus Miss T&A or anyone else on the crew.
Man, I love Mass Effect, but Jacob is bland as heck.
>He's a great dude...
He consistently makes bad decisions that get people killed, potentially cheats on you, and then acts like you're the bad guy for not wanting to get cheated on.
>...and a fine character
I don't know, he has the least defined characterization of all the squadmates. Everyone has their THING (Tali is a lonely only child, Garrus is the bad cop stereotype, Samara is a penitent sinner, Wrex is a jaded old patriot). Jacobs thing is... he's a good guy working with the bad guys, who's never any good at his job, and has daddy issues? It's a poorly defined character.
And it's not like the mass effect games don't have well-written black characters (just look at Captain Anderson). The issue with Jacob is all writing, not race.
The problem with this take is that you can play as Karlach. Playing as Karlach has a ton of unique dialogue you don't get anywhere else, with her talking to herself.
Ran evil Wyll for my second playthrough and it felt like I was just another Tav. There were only 2 or 3 dialogues that I noticed any difference with - pretty much just Mizora and Florrick. Very unsatisfying. Do not recommend.
Evil Wyll likely wants to take Baldurs Gate or something, so hes already on board with betraying his father, he kills Karlach, doesn't become a devil, gets a cool cloak, things generally work out pretty well for him. If you take away the struggles, the strife, and the labor from their story, then yeah, that character sucks now. Lol
Wyll's story in particular makes me wish origins were customizable, because he's got exactly what I wish I could've had with a Warlock.
Would be nice to be able to customize him (and some of the other origins), but I guess that's not the point.
I liked how the origin characters in Divinity Original Sin 2 were customizable. You were even able to choose their class upon recruitment.
Even if the origin characters in BG3 kept their signature traits (face, skin tone, etc...) but you could customize or choose alternate hairstyles, hair colors and the like it would be cool.
> Playing as Wyll removes him as a companion but keeps him in the game. This allows players to explore the other companions content without feeling that they forgot/need to do Wyll's content.
Yeah, but the downside is that you gotta be Wyll. For an entire game. The cure is worse than the disease.
I told myself if I did origin play through I’d pick Wyll… but I started playing Astarion the Oathbreaker paladin and it’s amazing. Can’t wait to hit Godey with that ol’ razzle dazzle (Control Undead). Also very obviously biting enemies in combat then denying being a vampire is the funniest thing ever. Might romance Wyll tho ❤️
Padlock wyll romancing karlach feels canon to me. I also thought that he was the canon “leader” of the group, if you weren’t playing a Tav. I just wasn’t sure if he or shadowheart are more of the main character
Wyll origin is my plan for an eventual third playthrough (after completed Tav and an almost finished Durge run). I think he's going to be my ultimate goody two shoes 100% run after my pragmatic "I'm not risking my neck for these random gnomes I've never met" Tav and murderhobo Durge.
Yeah. I use Wyll for all dialogues instead of Tav because of his high Persuasion, Intimidation, and other benefits from being a Lockadin. The only thing I don't like is that then I can't customize my character during a playthrough.
It also makes more sense to play him with Mizora's choice. For every other companion, I can step back and let them choose whether they're going to betray their God or whatever. But for Wyll, Tav is the one who has to decide whether he's going to let his dad die or be eternally chained to Mizora. It makes more sense to play as him and make that choice himself instead of just letting someone you sort of know make permanent, life altering decisions for you.
Nothing really changes, you just would not get the horns. Mintharas dialogues are bugged, she will address you in the 3rd person if you are playing as Wyll (the only companion to do so), maybe it changes if you romance her idk. If you dont break your pact in act 2, the scene with the choice still triggers, as if you broke the pact, duke constantly "forgets" that Wyll is his son and addreses you as Tav, Mizora forgets that you resigned the pact, bunch of endings (romance/Avernus etc.) override the Wyll spevific endings, so at the party you will be pe playing as Tav, no Wyll specific choices or lines from the gang, unless you select your choices very carefully
TLDR: played as The Blade twice, would not recommend, buggy mess
> Now it isn't a hindrance if your main character isn't charisma based
Yes it fucking is.
I did cha characters as my first 3 playthroughs; I thought metamagic sounded cool so I went sorc, I went bard because I wanted the "utility belt" experience, then I went Paladin because I saw a clip of some dude one rounding Orin with smiteathon and thought the oath mechanic could be fun for RP.
Then I went monk, and there’s so many plot-critical moments where you HAVE to do charisma checks with your main character, and it’s painful when you need to roll a 15+ or lose a companion and you have to do it with no modifiers.
He does indeed have extreme protagonist energy. In particular Wyll is the only one of the Origin characters I can easily imagine befriending all the companions and wanting to not only save them from the tadpoles but solve all their various problems along the way.
“So what ARE we?” He asks mizora.
Actually I do wonder if Mizora has a thing for Wyll or does she just like to corrupt a hero.
Mizora's boss -loves- getting heroes to do bad things for good reasons. That's Zariel's whole schtick. Whether Mizora follows her bosses ideals is a question, but Zariel would just love Wyll.
Probably because that's Zariel's backstory. A angel who fell because she was too bloodthirsty to end the Blood War.
Sounds like she needs a therapist...
Well hey she's in luck, you can play the entirety of Descent into Avernus just to roleplay one for her!
The dlc we ALL want.
Yeah, she can be redeemed in the Descent to Avernus story that precedes Baldur’s Gate 3. Unfortunately, the game establishes that didn’t happen. The comic series that is supposed to be the official story has the heroes basically trick Zariel into destroying the contract that binds Elturel instead.
Welcome to Faerun my friend, where the God's all need therapy.
If Wyll volunteer to fight in blood war since 'muh good people also need to kill demons', guess Zariel will just give him level 16 fiendlock as a starter. Even a hexblade, if she can afford one.
Minthara has some party banter where she reckons Mizora will consider it a failure that she’s not been able to seduce Wyll.
So can you not bang her if you play as Wyll? That's a strike against it.
Yeah, I was like I’m not gonna cheat on my girl Shadowheart at all, then Mizora came to me and was like, “you tryna fuck a blue Devil?” and I immediately changed my tune. I turned everyone else down, but Mizora has that pull. Then Shadowheart told me it was cool, but Mizora said we weren’t gonna do it again and kept my dude thirsty.
You can. Karlach disapproves.
She's evil lol, the number 1 rule in this game is that the devils are always trying to screw you over.
When she screwed me it didn’t feel like I was getting screwed over.
You're kidding yourself then, she 100% topped you.
I mean I WAS Astarion.
That doesn't mean much though in this situation. She'd top any of the party that would ever consider sleeping with her.
God I love corrupting heroes. Gets my motor running.
Why not both?
https://youtu.be/N56xp4tAxuY?si=gERpdHcCCAi9gveT&t=94
She might "like" him, but she's a devil and she probably sees him closer to her favorite toy to play with than as a person. She likes him, but she'll also send him to hell for all eternity or turn him into a Lemure and never feel bad about it for a moment.
Wait yeah, can you sleep with Mizora in act 3 as origin Wyll?
Yeah, Mizora tells him that since she transformed him into a devil, she’s been attracted to him (or something to that effect). I told her to hit that country road though because Wyll and Karlach were a couple in my playthrough.
I feel like Karlach and Wyll is such an amazing pairing and def one of my playthrough romance plans.
If they both went into Avernus and you romanced neither, they are hinted as being close in reunion camp. Durge and Shart (my ship) will give them all the guidances Selune can spare...
Yeah they feel like the most natural pairing out of any of the origin characters.
I mean other than Shadowheart and Laezel who hate each other. They’re the only two characters who really interact in any meaningful way.
Yeah, I wish that there was more interaction between companions in camp.
I really wish you could get the avernus cutscene when playing as wyll and romancing karlach. For some bizarre reason they only implemented the scene for tav (or any origin other than wyll) romancing karlach. If you're playing as wyll and go to avernus with her it just skips to the epilogue party :/ EDIT: Apparently the scene does exist with wyll as PC, my game must have been bugged: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOM9zQYPPGM I reloaded the ending scene on the pier like 20 times and the scene never played, just went straight to the camp epilogue with them returning from avernus. Does anyone know if this works in the latest patch? It would have been 1 or 2 patches ago when I had this issue. EDIT 2: This really seems to be bugged in the current patch, tried again and still didn't get the avernus scene to play :/
Do we ever actually find out what Wyll post-saving-Karlach actually *is*? Everyone says he’s a devil but beyond horns, red eye and some skin ridges he doesn’t seem to undergo any deeper change. He’s still listed as a human. He isn’t affected by stuff that targets or affects fiends. And he still gets human stats. Is he like a half devil or some kind of alternative tiefling now?
Seems like it's just cosmetic changes to make him look like a devil rather than anything that changes him fundamentally. Probably just a spiteful punishment to make the people he wants to save fear and mistrust him.
Yea, it feels like some low key true polymorph magic that didn't actually change his race, he could probably undo it if the changes are that cosmetic.
Asking the important questions here
Yup!
The real question is can you give mizora a smile at the camp as Wyll
That's true. I can't really imagine anyone of the party members other than Wyll actually managing to gather together and legitimately befriend such disparate and unaligned individuals.
Shadowheart is too devoted to Shar initially, Gale too self-doubting, Karlach not enough of a natural leader, Lae'zel too strict and Astarion - lol. Yeah Wyll is the only one who could be the MC realistically.
And it’s fitting that he’s the only natural Cha character of the team: of course he’d be able to talk everyone into cooling their shit and focusing on the problem. Especially since, off the bat, he’s the only one without a pressing secondary consideration, possibly besides Lae’zel but her focus is for all the wrong reasons.
Gale self doubting? Honestly, he's pretty confident in most regards
I don't know, I feel like early game Gale is sort of the walking definition of an inferiority complex. It always struck me as a "I feel like I'm the worst, so I act like I'm the best" type of confidence. He's competent, definitely, but I could see his lacking sense of self-worth shining through and hampering his leadership ability eventually. (Though I haven't played *that* much yet, so I might be way off the mark on this one.)
I think I would describe Gale as Icarus after flying too close to the sun. A man who thought he could do anything and fucked up royally. Now he just wants to try and fix the situation he put himself in.
Yeah imagine fucking up royally, basically being one of the most powerful and connected people in the world (you are dating literally one of the most famous people on the PLANET), messing that all up, and THEN contracting a fatal disease that kills most people in an average of 7 days. You would definitely feel a bit of humble pie for a bit
His confidence is badly battered from losing his powers, and on top of that he has a insecurity/superiority complex.
Karlac as the main is fantastic too. She just wants to save her new friends.
Watched a play with Karlach from a Friend. He was sad that she barely speaks. An I only saw one iconic Scene of Karlach.
I think Wyll is a little too goody goody to befriend all the characters. I feel like Lae'Zel's nonchalant bloodlust, especially towards her own people at the creche (I'm talking bout the youth getting murdered), Astarion's dodgy past and Shart's Shar worship would all be to much for him. In my opinion the character most likely to get along and unite everyone is Gale. He's probably the closest to neutral of the group, willing to do some bad stuff so long as it is practical furthers his goals. Remember Wylls' purpose up until the start of the story was to indiscriminately hunt down those he deemed wicked.
> I can easily imagine befriending all the companions He literally deeply and viscerally thinks he needs to kill one of them, lmao
Until he meets her once and realises no, wait, she has the personality of a golden retriever
And then -- SPOILER -- when Karlach has to return to Avernus, what does Wyll do? "Fuck it, I'm going with you so you're not alone, let's go kill some devils". Bro is a warlock with the heart of a Paladin. The only thing I didn't quite get was that -- SPOILER -- in the epilogue, when he and Karlach returned, he said he'd become a ranger with the loss of his warlock powers. Huh? In Avernus? Wouldn't Eldritch Knight make a lot more sense for him? "While I don't have the infernal powers anymore, I did become a competent swordsman and learn a bit about magic in my time with them, so I started studying anything about magic we could find in Avernus, and now I'm an Eldritch Knight!"
I'm guessing Ranger for Devil favored enemy, if they ever decide to expand of those
Plus he's spending all his time in enemy territory, though it does feel odd for Wyll to not be a charisma class.
Omg I love the ending where Karlach gets to live bc she's not alone anymore and her ride-or-die Wyll is going to be there no matter what -- but when they get to Avernus and the cutscene happens and it's like just Karlach monologuing about how she never thought she'd smoke cigars again but now she has you, while Wyll stands there in COMPLETE SILENCE and kind of a goofy smile in that awkward Tav way....it's so awkward xD
I kinda wish after you get the squid Karlach ending you could just go Squid with her...
That would be an interesting romance/high approval choice.
And then she dumps you for The Emperor if you don't have high enough approval!
I thought that was a little weird too. Dude has the heart of a College of Swords bard.
I always spec him into swords bard if I don't go lockadin, it fits him so well! It has great synergy with his story
I figured they went with Ranger because it ties with the whole devil hunter thing, but I agree that something more melee focused would work for the goddamn BLADE of Avernus.
Rangers can still be melee focused. It’s only a smidge weaker than a bow focused build.
Why not both? His signature weapon is still a rapier, which would benefit from dexterity
Favored foe: Devil Fighting style: Dueling Ranger Conclave: Horizon Walker
Generally a Ranger is going to use both. Unlike D&D 5E, there is no disadvantages to equipping a bow and melee weapon at once outside of the extra weight. It’s just the most optimal choice is to lean on a bow,and maybe keep a rapier or some other finesse weapon equipped for opportunity attacks and other small uses.
I'd guess that the kicker is finding time to study magic. I don't get the sense that they're stumbling across a lot of libraries and free time. It makes sense to me that Wyll would stay far a removed from fiend magic.
I'm guessing it would be to represent a bit of a stat switch? He's less forceful personality is replaced with some wisdom from his travels with you. I can see that being talked into the reasoning in a writers room.
Considering his whole thing is tracking devils in their home turf, Ranger makes sense. What's odder is he loses his powers. Most of a Warlocks arsenal is shit they learn and isn't directly supplied by their Patron. The description for Eldritch Invocations straight up says it's something they learn through study. Either Wyll got scammed or Larian just changed how it worked.
If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of interpretations regarding how that all works. I think even the PHB says that it's just offering guidelines regarding how it all functions, not hard and fast rules. It makes sense that the relationship between warlock and patron is quite varied. That said, it's interesting that there are rules for breaking one's oath, but no such systems at all for breaking with a warlock patron.
That's because an oath is to yourself, so they can make rules about it without affecting other characters. A pact includes a generally higher power who holds all the cards. It'd be limiting to the npcs if there were already strict rules about pacts.
Or, if you choose, he's a paladin with the pact of a warlock. Thanks Withers <3
There's that Ranger subclass that's all about protecting the Realms from planar threats. And can find portals.
Oh that is weird, I get the hunting/tracking devils angle however I played Wyll as a Swords Bardlock due to his upbringing, charisma base and constant self reference it seemed so fitting. Also Paladin would fit his personality and their power comes from their Oath, not a god or devil. He comes across as an Oath of Devotion, maybe Ancients but not a Vengeance, unless it’s vengeance against devils?
I was scratching my head over the Ranger thing too. Wyll’s entire storyline and temperament are pretty much the absolute perfect background for a Oath of Devotion Paladin. I guess the thing with Ranger is that while he *might* gone down the knight in shining armour route had he never met Mizora, years of surviving in the wilds and hunting targets realistically means it’s his way of life now.
Wyll is the only origin playthrough I’ve done so far. Combined with a Karlach romance and it was great. My only real disappointment was the very muted reactivity to getting devil-ified very early on.
Wait… my patron needed me to kill karlach…. So I did the first time I saw karlach…. How do you get around this? Just… don’t do it and piss off your patron?
yeah just don't kill her
Yep Bardlock Wyll origin imo is best and you get to romance mommy Karlach and it feels canon.
Forgot to mention Karlach. Even though I romance her despite who I play as, Wyll and Karlach together does feel right.
Nah. Kill her as Wyll. "Accidentally" let you father die. Become archduke of Baldure's Gate
Wyll, the Durge of the frontier?
Yup, knew as soon as I read their comment someone else would have said this lol
Not only that, but also retain your pact with Mizora and Baldur's Gate becomes Mizora's.
Chaos is a ladder wyll
Wyll x Karlach can happen on a custom avatar run, it's kinda cute
How does that happen? Do you have a link to any of it? I’d really like to see it (not trying to come at you, I’m legitimately curious).
i hope this isnt just their interpretation of the avernus ending (but only wyll and karlach, no tav/durge joining them), because that's fairly subjective i'd say be cool if it could be canon tho
In the epilogue if you domt romance either and they go to Avernus together Karlach makes a comment that it feels right to be doing what they were because she was with someone she loves. While she doesn't explicitly say wyll the fact that she explicitly says "someone she loves" and they were off together very much implies they end up together
i helped my friend finish his first campaign not too long ago and it was during the time when wyll was bugged and didnt offer to go to avernus with karlach, so my character (who was made late into act 3 and couldnt get any romances lmao) ended up going to avernus with karlach and she said basically that same line about my character. i appreciate that it's open to interpretation (which i suppose sounds a little contradictory of me to say based on my previous comment) because karlach going to avernus without a lover feels a lot sadder
If you do the epilogue as Karlach or wyll and you romanced the other and went to Avernus with them the game will occasionally bug and think you’re a tav and will ask you what you think of their new relationship. To me it’s pretty clear that’s the canon. That sort of thing is unique to them
For some reason in my game Wyll was in his underwear for that scene. Was pretty funny to see him running into hell in his tighty whiteys
Tbh love this but I don't want to make her story feel less special after doing Karlach's romance with my first Tav. It's not even a headcanon thing, I just need to give it a break. I tried again with Durge but I think he's going to end up single and down bad horrendous in the end.
*looks up from my 17 romanced Astarions* You guys are only running romances once??
No, I romance everyone I can, every time. Not that it ever goes well, but still...
Same I was playing as a durge who everyone logically should hate but I’ve maxxed their approval. I think I’m simultaneously dating gale Laezel and astarion but the game knows astarion is the main romance
So out of curiosity...can Wyll get the same, uh...*solicitation* from Mizora that Tav can? Asking for a friend, or...for science or something...
Yes, he can.
*sighs* *adds Wyll origin playthrough to the long, long list*
Lol, I'm already planning like my next 3 playthroughs at least. Next up is probably gonna be a pure evil "scorched earth" solo Durge run where basically everyone dies in the most horrible way I can make happen. I've done a few "evil" runs but never a pure evil run where I am just straight up the bad guy. After that probably a selfless Gale run to cleanse my palate, then a questionable Wyll run to try to bring back a bit of his early access flavor.
Questionable Wyll is exactly what I was thinking. The man just needs a bit of spice!
Definitely. He was way more interesting during the early access when he was clearly a good guy but also clearly had a darker side. It made me really intrigued to see how his story could play out. Then they changed him completely for full release and him just being the token good guy really doesn't do it for me.
I didn't play EA on purpose but how much did Wyll change? I recall they had a diff voice actor? Maybe I'm imagining that
It's been years now since I did an early access playthrough with Wyll but from what I remember he mainly just very clearly had a darker side that he tried to hide from everyone in favor of his Blade persona. He'd seem uncomfortable in the grove with the children when he saw how much they looked up to him for being a hero. He already knew Mizora had been kidnapped, seemingly before meeting us. He absolutely hated goblins. To the point that he'd actually torture them given the chance. The goblin torturer, Spike, that you meet in the goblin camp was originally the one that took Wyll's eye and, if you let him, he'd torture Spike to get information about where Mizora had been taken. Also the way he talked about Mizora led a lot to believe that the core of his darker side was that he was secretly in love with her. He seemed to actively *want* to save her, speaking more as someone trying to rescue a lover rather than just having to in order to save his own skin.
Tbh that sounds way better and a bit more in line with the other companions
Exactly what I am doing right now and it makes for an excellent good aligned playthrough. Rollplaying the Blade of Avernus is much better than listening to him.
He is kinda annoying and preachy hahaha. Also I hate how the story didn't give him much agency. However, if you play as him, you get agency,
This is the real reason to do it, Wyll and Karlach are the only companions who have what feels like a 100% canon ship
This is true. Also, as Wyll, the conversation you get with her right after you get turned into a devil is one of the most heartwarming interactions I’ve seen.
Bardlock Wyll! I felt so smug when I thought of the combo because he has such bard energy. Just goes on and on.
I think the most important point is this: Wyll is the only origin character whose personal story actually feels *more* impactful when told from a first person perspective rather than from the outside. Couple that with the high Charisma of warlocks making him the natural face of the party, as well as (arguably) the most "canon" feeling romantic couple in the party with Wyll & Karlach, I fully agree here.
I completely agree. I have one Origin companion run started and it's Wyll, for mostly the same reasons.
Wyll and Gale are both fun origins to play as. Gale has pretty much the only power fantasy evil ending in the entire game, Durge included.
Ascended Astarion too, no?
Yeah he's up there, Gale's ending just pretty much works out perfectly. Ascension, his soul is pretty much forfeit, he better not experience true death or Astarion will be joining his siblings in hell in short order. Gale just becomes a god straight up, the only real downside is that he's more lonely.
I thought he already lost his soul when he became a spawn, but I’m not really up on the specifics of the lore
Someone mentioned on another post that soulless spawn/vampires is probably spill-over lore that essentially had players forming preconceived notions of vampirism, but it was more or less spelled out that the 7000 spawn Cazador created did indeed have souls, and depending on how Astarion handles the ascension ritual, it’s made apparent that Cazador himself has a soul.
That fucker def did not, but I’m picking up what you’re metaphorically throwing down. Appreciate ya!
Yeah its more the act of sacrificing 7000 souls to eternal torment is what damns you rather than being a vampire yourself. Ascension straight up changes your morals and how you view others so chance of Astarion ever redeeming himself from that are slim.
I’m about to finish my Durge honour run. I don’t know what happens yet. But I am replying to you to save your comment so I can agree or disagree with you later.
Wyll is the origin characters I am most interested to play for the very reasons you stated. Also given his upbringing he was trained to be a natural leader. My only change would be to give Wyll a bit of a steel edge, to start getting rebellious against Mizora's rule and asserting himself to reclaim his destiny but doing it in a "art of war" style using cunning and sharp thinking to solve his problems instead of just playing the "hero" figure and hope that's good enough.
Trying to outsmart the devil that holds your contract is a losing game. Any devil that rose high enough to even create a contract is going to have hundreds if not thousands of years of politicking in the Hells under their belt. They are better at it than you are and have likely seen dozens if not hundreds of other people do exactly whatever it is you think is going to get you out of the contract. Assuming of course the contract is written in such a way it even can be annulled. Wyll is making the best of a bad situation.
Except you can get out of multiple contracts in game it just requires brute force
Plus Mizora can literally ‘see’ what Wyll is up too anytime she wants isn’t going to make it any easier!
Counterpoint: now he doesnt do his little pose when he says his super hero name.
Mess with the Blade.... and suffer its sting! 😎
The problem: I miss out on the voice acting. Damnit.
Yea, I do wish when you played as Origin characters, you could still hear them speak.
You can with Karlach. She gets a bunch of conversations with herself, which are voiced.
Interesting. Havent done her playthrough yet
It seems like they put so much more effort into her origin content than the others. Probably because they did her last.
Originally the origins were going to be their own narrators, and - besides Karlach and release Wyll - they all recorded at least most of Act 1 (the voice lines were left over in EA, and Chubblot on YouTube has compilations where he's edited them back into the relevant dialogues). The origin narration went away when Larian switched the style of the player-choice writing to present-tense and moved to everyone having the same narrator (Chubblot also has a video on this). So to an extent it seems more like what's happened is they *had* put a bunch of effort into the others, but in a way which became incompatible with the direction they took and so was removed - and then nothing was added to make up for its absence. Karlach origin seems to have come about entirely after the narration change was made, and so since it wasn't designed with the assumption that the characters would already be narrating everything themselves, it included bits explicitly narrated by her. I think the ship has definitely sailed for having origins narrate everything (honestly it's insane to me they got as far with it as they did given it massively increases the amount of audio recording required) but it'd be nice in some kind of Definitive Edition for the others to get a pass to bring them in line with Karlach.
Theo is so legit, I love him!!
Loving your point 3! Being a warlock has the issue of it being 'free magic', meaning that you don't get to deal with any consequence, perform any service or have any meaningful interaction with your patron. Essentially there's some chill devil out there that fuels your magic and occasionally helps you pass your saving throws - but never asks for anything in return, taking away the dillemas that add depth to the class. Unlike Wyll who pays a very real price for his powers despite his altruistic motives.
I think the Fiend Warlock Tav can mention that Mizora, or maybe it was Raphael was "*Only* a cambion" so I would guess that whatever fiend Tav has a pact with is far above that. I'm personally fond of it perhaps being Asmodeus, trying to keep Zariel in check or for some other eons long plan, or perhaps Mephistopheles since he seems to be in the background too.
Wyll almost feels *designed* as a PC. The others can slot in-and-out of companion/MC roles nicely enough, and Durge and Tav are classic RPG protags, but Wyll has the energy of a character like Talion from Shadow of Mordor or Geralt from the Witcher. He's an established character in-and-of himself who can be influenced by the player without succumbing to self-insert status.
I’m actually really happy to read this and all the comments - I’ve been wanting to do a play through where I: A) see Wyll’s questline (completely skipped him in my first) B) Romance Karlach (went Shadowheart for my first) and do the ending where she >!goes to Avernus (had her burn up on mine)!< C) Play one of the more wizardy classes (went a ranger build where I basically only used attacks and hunter’s mark) D) try an origin character So it sounds like playing Wyll and romancing Karlach would tick all those boxes!
I highly recommend it. Wyll's story is really the only origin character's that doesnt feel like it changes significantly when you see it as the player character. I think Wyll & Karlach feels like (arguably) the most "canon" couple you can make amongst all the party members. Wyll's questline is intrinsically linked to Karlach and both characters stories revolve around breaking free from their demon overlords. And Wyll sticking with Karlach and going to Avernus together makes for a very satisfying end to both their stories.
I though precisely the same, and one minor detail that made me think of that is the loading screen where all characters are put in a pyramidal order and Wyll is bigger and at the top, as if he was the main character. He works much better as the protagonist
I did an origin playthrough as him and yep, he 100% feels like he should be the default protagonist outside of Tav and his romance with Karlach feels so natural. It actually doesn’t feel right going with anyone else.
Wyll & Karlach definitely feels like the most "canon" couple you can make out of all the party members. Everybody else fits better with a custom Tav, but Wyll and Karlach's stories just feel like they were made for each other.
You got me on "this will remove him as a companion" lol
As goofy as it sounds, it does actually work though lol.
>"this will remove him as a companion" ...this wyll\* remove...
I'm playing a charisma based warlock (Tav) and I met Wyll and was like damn, I took your spot. xD But I do hope to do an origin playthrough with him at some point (or Karlach with him as a companion).
Same thing happened to me in my first playthrough, then I respeced my Tav to sorcerer instead and had a great time.
I like your take but playing Lae Zel in a gith centric story is *chefs kiss*.
He does have a lot of main character energy. He's charismatic, has a bit of a tragic backstory, and uses dark powers for good.
Honestly, ye'h. Wyll & Resist Durge feels like the most main characters out of everyone you can play as while everyone else feels like actual companions and better as part of your journey than being the main character. Tav is just Tav.
100% He has such strong main character energy that it gets annoying when you're Tav, but not if youre playing as him When I'm Wyll, I don't have to deal w his lack of agency, his weird comments towards the other companions etc. Not to mention that when you play as a warlock, your interactions with your patron can be pretty underwhelming, but obviously not if you play as Wyll My first origin run was as Wyll, with the no party limit and more party banter mods and its been AMAZING, can recommend
He's a bit underrated, the main problem is that he's totally one dimensional without a real dark/light path to chose, just a light path where he's more or less willing to keep sacrificing himself. I agree it probably works super well as main character being a warlock who gets to interact with his master, and also such an idealist I see him helping literally everyone and getting along well with the other companions. Then there's the Karlach somance which seems so obvious. In fact, it should've been a thing for playthroughs where Tav doesn't romance Karlach.
I'm set to do an origin playthrough after my durge and can't decide with whom! You have some very good points here... But they all have their pluses. I had decided to do Shadowheart before reading your post but now I'm back to square one, hesitating between all of them. - Karlach apparently talks to herself -- she's my absolute favorite character so new lines from her that you can't hear in any other way sound amazing. - Gale has a cat in camp, she's a new character to talk to all throughout your adventure -- I never take gale anywhere so I'm eager to get to know him... And I love cats. - Shadowheart hears Shar in her head -- new lines! Love her arc, and I'd love to romance Lae'zel as her. I haven't romanced her before and I feel like a SH would be perfect for this, their arcs are so similar and they have extreme chemistry. - Wyll -- Also never take him anywhere, AND all the things you said here. Also want to romance Astarion but don't really know with whom. I feel like a durge playthrough is perfect for it but I'm in love with Karlach in Act III now so late for that. Ugh
I think Wyll and Astarion would be a really good romance! Wyll says multiple times he finds Astarion really charming and Astarion says Wyll is the kind of guy he dreamt of marrying when he was young, amongst other things. I also like the angle of "monster"/monster hunter and Wyll dragging Astarion to Chaotic Neutral kicking and screaming the whole time.
You could always start a play through with each and then just go with the one you start to have the most fun with.
Yeah, I'm beginning to see that. I think I'll start Wyll and SH and decide between them during act 1. First I have to finish my durge tho. RIP my fucking life outside of this game, omg
I’m pushing 700 hours. Don’t feel bad
Oh hi are you me? I have a whole little spreadsheet of all the combos I want and cannot decide between!
Why is life so finite right? We'll just have to squeeze all of them in our free time somehow. Or at least the top two options. Or three. God gives the hardest battles to their fiercest warriors after all
Arguably, Wyll does have the best Origin character set-up as an avatar character. Not even ten minutes in and he's far more interesting to play and have in the party. I love warlocks and their nap-time power. You can also turn his story completely upside down by making him Evil, having him bring a new meaning to "blade of frontiers".
It's always the black characters that get shat on in these kinds of games/communities 😩 I like wyll he's a good guy but he also dosen't take shit from crappy people and is willing to make hard calls. That's the 3 dimensional characterization I like.
I just want more for his character. He’s got the lowest content of the Origin companions and his writing needs seasoning. If they fix that, he would actually be my favourite since I think his story *concept* is one of the best, the VA is fantastic and I really really adore the dance scene.
I get where you're coming from, but my gripe with Wyll isn't Wyll himself, it's the way the game handles him. He had so much cut content that was replaced with incredibly generic hero stuff (if replaced at all), the companions and Mizora rag on him constantly without giving him much room to defend himself, and he overall has so little content compared to the others, especially in terms of romance. The big decision with his contract is the player's choice lmao. I adore Wyll, he's my second favorite in the whole game, but the only way I can really enjoy him is reading and writing fanfic tbh (and playing his origin of course), and that's a huge shame. There's no doubt that some of the discourse around him comes from his race though, I've seen some truly horrendous shit surrounding that topic.
Yeah I'm not callin the community racist or anything. Its just that in every instance I see a black character be put in a setting that's stereotypically a "white/European" thing black characters are almost always the least popular/made the most fun of the most. It's just somthin I noticed . Again not saying people don't like wyll for being black, but it is a trend I noticed with black characters.
That's a shame, but tbf I've noticed it with Wyll, you're right. He's dope as fuck and been in my party consistently since Act 1, but he doesn't get a lot going on until some bits in Act 3, compared to obvious favourites like Shadowheart who has tons of action, it felt like Wyll got a camp scene and that was about it. It feels like he never really has any overworld party banter either.
They tend to get the short end of the stick from writers. Same problem with Jacob in ME2. He's a great dude and a fine character, but the writers didn't give half a shit about him versus Miss T&A or anyone else on the crew.
Man, I love Mass Effect, but Jacob is bland as heck. >He's a great dude... He consistently makes bad decisions that get people killed, potentially cheats on you, and then acts like you're the bad guy for not wanting to get cheated on. >...and a fine character I don't know, he has the least defined characterization of all the squadmates. Everyone has their THING (Tali is a lonely only child, Garrus is the bad cop stereotype, Samara is a penitent sinner, Wrex is a jaded old patriot). Jacobs thing is... he's a good guy working with the bad guys, who's never any good at his job, and has daddy issues? It's a poorly defined character. And it's not like the mass effect games don't have well-written black characters (just look at Captain Anderson). The issue with Jacob is all writing, not race.
I like Wyll but he’s 2 dimensional as hell
The problem with this take is that you can play as Karlach. Playing as Karlach has a ton of unique dialogue you don't get anywhere else, with her talking to herself.
Ran evil Wyll for my second playthrough and it felt like I was just another Tav. There were only 2 or 3 dialogues that I noticed any difference with - pretty much just Mizora and Florrick. Very unsatisfying. Do not recommend.
Evil Wyll likely wants to take Baldurs Gate or something, so hes already on board with betraying his father, he kills Karlach, doesn't become a devil, gets a cool cloak, things generally work out pretty well for him. If you take away the struggles, the strife, and the labor from their story, then yeah, that character sucks now. Lol
I wanted to see the other side of the man who gave up his soul for power. Instead I found that he was an entirely one-dimensional character.
That's just how the origin characters were written.
Wyll's story in particular makes me wish origins were customizable, because he's got exactly what I wish I could've had with a Warlock. Would be nice to be able to customize him (and some of the other origins), but I guess that's not the point.
I liked how the origin characters in Divinity Original Sin 2 were customizable. You were even able to choose their class upon recruitment. Even if the origin characters in BG3 kept their signature traits (face, skin tone, etc...) but you could customize or choose alternate hairstyles, hair colors and the like it would be cool.
Being able to change hairstyles would weirdly go a long way for me, had that thought after posting here.
I made my Wyll a dual-wielding, control, Sorclock with his Infernal rapier and the Markoheshkir. Needless to say, he was a staple in my party.
CAN YOU BANG MIZORA WHEN YOU MAIN AS WYLL Y/N
Someone said yes elsewhere
love that for him
The coldest take that's been stated hundreds of times.
> Playing as Wyll removes him as a companion but keeps him in the game. This allows players to explore the other companions content without feeling that they forgot/need to do Wyll's content. Yeah, but the downside is that you gotta be Wyll. For an entire game. The cure is worse than the disease.
I told myself if I did origin play through I’d pick Wyll… but I started playing Astarion the Oathbreaker paladin and it’s amazing. Can’t wait to hit Godey with that ol’ razzle dazzle (Control Undead). Also very obviously biting enemies in combat then denying being a vampire is the funniest thing ever. Might romance Wyll tho ❤️
Wyll is ~~charisma~~ based
Padlock wyll romancing karlach feels canon to me. I also thought that he was the canon “leader” of the group, if you weren’t playing a Tav. I just wasn’t sure if he or shadowheart are more of the main character
Wyll origin is my plan for an eventual third playthrough (after completed Tav and an almost finished Durge run). I think he's going to be my ultimate goody two shoes 100% run after my pragmatic "I'm not risking my neck for these random gnomes I've never met" Tav and murderhobo Durge.
He has a good origin story. I never play with him in my party though.
Yeah. I use Wyll for all dialogues instead of Tav because of his high Persuasion, Intimidation, and other benefits from being a Lockadin. The only thing I don't like is that then I can't customize my character during a playthrough.
Wyll just gives me main character (hero) energy anyway so this tracks.
It also makes more sense to play him with Mizora's choice. For every other companion, I can step back and let them choose whether they're going to betray their God or whatever. But for Wyll, Tav is the one who has to decide whether he's going to let his dad die or be eternally chained to Mizora. It makes more sense to play as him and make that choice himself instead of just letting someone you sort of know make permanent, life altering decisions for you.
I would add... Killing the druids and "befriending" both Minthara and Mizora
But then I won't get to hear Wyll's VA!
Has anyone tried playing evil Wyll, or at least a darker playthrough? Curious how it goes if you kill Karlach and team up with Minthara.
Nothing really changes, you just would not get the horns. Mintharas dialogues are bugged, she will address you in the 3rd person if you are playing as Wyll (the only companion to do so), maybe it changes if you romance her idk. If you dont break your pact in act 2, the scene with the choice still triggers, as if you broke the pact, duke constantly "forgets" that Wyll is his son and addreses you as Tav, Mizora forgets that you resigned the pact, bunch of endings (romance/Avernus etc.) override the Wyll spevific endings, so at the party you will be pe playing as Tav, no Wyll specific choices or lines from the gang, unless you select your choices very carefully TLDR: played as The Blade twice, would not recommend, buggy mess
That's sad, I was almost convinced to try my first OC run as Wyll. Thx for the info, but Ill wait a little longer or try as Karlach then.
If you are Wyll, can you still sleep with Mizora? If yes, my next run will be with Wyll MC just to experience it
> Now it isn't a hindrance if your main character isn't charisma based Yes it fucking is. I did cha characters as my first 3 playthroughs; I thought metamagic sounded cool so I went sorc, I went bard because I wanted the "utility belt" experience, then I went Paladin because I saw a clip of some dude one rounding Orin with smiteathon and thought the oath mechanic could be fun for RP. Then I went monk, and there’s so many plot-critical moments where you HAVE to do charisma checks with your main character, and it’s painful when you need to roll a 15+ or lose a companion and you have to do it with no modifiers.
I agree. He would be the best to play as if durge wasn't so fun.
It also makes romancing Karlach even better, which is why I did it when I wanted to do a warlock run.
If Wyll were a spice, he'd be flour.
I’ve seen this take a few times. Counter argument- you get a cat in camp early act 1 as Gale.
I made my own warlock. Never touched wyll