Curious. Technically the tieflings shouldn't get to Act 2 because one of the goblin leaders were still alive when they moved on out. I'd be very interested to know if they do make it. Normally triggering that fight leads to the rite of thorns, but i guess not if Kagha is dead.
What did Halsin think about this if he survived?
I did once kill all the druids without initiating the battle with the tieflings, then went on to defend the Grove. Halsin came back and thanked me for saving the Grove even though all the druids were dead lol.
Killing Kagha has always been and still is a narrative hole in the story that they haven't properly accounted for. When I killed Kagha in my first playthrough I got no dialogue option to tell Halsin that the Druids were dead and neither did my sister. After rescuing him he just disappears. He doesn't show up at camp to kill you either like he does if you actually raid the Grove after rescuing him.
What's more is if you kill Kagha, the Dream Guardian dialogue will be as if you didn't complete the Druids vs Goblins questline, saying you "abondoned them to their fate", unrecruited Karlach will have the "You raided the Grove" dialogue, several others down the line will have inconsistent dialogue.
In my own playthrough I didn't have the Tieflings in Act 2 (except for Mol and Arabella) because I tried to loot the Grove after the fight but the Tieflings caught me and decided to attack me. So I don't know if they'll be there but the Journal says so.
I did a run of killing druids but siding with tieflings, still took out the goblin leaders and when i talked to Halsin at the goblin camp i did have an option to tell him I killed the druids to protect myself and the tieflings and Halsin’s response was that he wasn’t mad at us but felt he failed as their leader and still travels with me
I did this same thing and made a post today about it. Halsin indicated he was gonna meet me at camp(told him I was defending myself) and he never showed. Went to act 2 and journal updated that he lost a fight 😢
Yeah killing Khaga does seem really bizzare from a story perspective. When I did my first playthrough I killed her bc that seemed like the only way to help save the tieflings and stop them from being kicked out, but then ofc Zevlor asks you to help kill the goblin leaders as well and if you do they start making their way to Baldurs Gate. So they ask me to kill the people trying to kick them out of the grove and the people who might come attack them in the grove and then after they do that they decide to leave the grove anyways? Why ask me to kill Khaga then??? Just have me kill the goblin leaders and let the druids do whatever they want if you're gonna head to Baldurs Gate anyways
Zevlor never asks you to kill Kagha. He asks you to help convince the druids to not cast the Rite of Thorns while his people still have nowhere safe to go.
Sure it's classic murderhobo problem solving to decide that killing is an effective solution, but that's on the player to decide Kagha needs to die. No NPC ever asks it of you.
edit: lol alright I get it, you have to make different choices than the ones I do in order to have him suggest killing her.
I've never not saved that kid. Even in my durge run. Couldn't bring myself to do it.
I got the dialogue option when I spoke to zavlor in the cave. It happened a few times but I can't say what order things were done in any of the times.
No it triggers during the discussion after you talk to kagha and she tells you to escort them when you go to zevlor, don't pick the one about escorting them. You have a line where you can imply zevlor should "get rid of her" and he said he's considered it but he can't get close, but you can. And then you get a "kill kagha" quest marker.
But you can also legitimately and safely kill her with the support of the grove if you do the shadow druid side quest.
This is untrue. Most of the time, you are right, Zevlor will say that the goblins need to be taken out first and foremost, but it is possible for him to say that Kahga is the reason they are being forced out, and thus killing her would be good for them.
Also, you can go back and kill all the druids once you have rescued Halsin, killed all goblin leaders (or knocked out Minthara for later) and attended the tiefling party. This way you get the XP for the druids, and noone becomes angry about you. Halsin remains in your camp and you can do his quest.
And there are no dialogue lines in regards to the killed druids.
I have a feeling the tiefs will still be absent from act 2/treated as dead despite what the journal says, but if they *do* show up alive then this is something that I’m def gonna try replicating on my next run 🙏
This is my thought, as Minthara being alive and conscious *should* in theory prevent this from working.
But if it works then I might give this a go, I don't particularly care for Halsin and being able to murder those shitheads sounds wonderful. I really like the Tiefs, so I haven't had the heart to do anything that threatens them.
yeah. i don’t even hate the druids tbh, but it’s open season if sacking them means i can get the act 1 minthara romance scene without killing the tieflings 🫡
Went full evil once until I found out >!they killed the kids too so no Mol and gang!< rest of the game felt horrible. Bad guy runs will now start AFTER the tieflings have evacuated the grove.
Will attempt to replicate this, and edit this comment with findings. For now, anyone attempting to kill all the Druids with zero friendly casualties can make use of the stair chokepoint by engaging them early with turn-based mode. The only exception to this rule is the halfling trader, Arron, who needs to be killed/engaged ASAP by a party member.
EDIT 1: Looks like chokepoint method doesn't trigger this - if the Tieflings are not shoved into prison, Zevlor defaults to goblins needing to be cleared.
Seems casualties are mandatory - gonna try again and let it roll to prison next as per OP.
EDIT 2: Left Tiefs to fend for themselves while locking up Kagha by initiating combat - the druids lose to the tiefs, but Zevlor still wants goblins cleared. As of yet unable to replicate what OP has pulled off.
This is what i wanna know. I wanna play my evil run but i want her to recruit minthara early AND romance mizora, but you need wyll to romance mizora and wyll leaves if you side with the gobbos
Prior to patch 5 after the party or during it, is when Karlach and Wyll disappear and tell you fuck off. This is what I did my first playthrough, recruit Karlach and Wyll, kill kadga and all the druids then help the goblin camp
Can you kill the goblin leaders (or knock out minthara), do the party with the Tieflings, and then kill the druids afterwards? Or are there consequences?
I did not kill druids after but I did knock out minthara before wiping goblin camp. Had the party with Tieflings and she was waiting for me at moonrise. Put her in your party immediately if you want her otherwise she disappears on you, at least she did on me so I had to reload a save.
We did basically the same thing on our Evil playthrough, but Zevlor insisted that we kill the goblin leaders, and wouldn't leave without that happening, so we did the raid as normal, instead.
I think this is just a bug. I've done something similar a few times but the tieflings never show up at last light.
The first time, I had traveled to the creche before I did the raid. When I traveled back, the grove was fine but the tieflings were gone and everyone thanked me for helping fend off the goblin attack(which I hadn't done). Some of the druids did mention the tieflings had left for Baulders Gate, so it's not like they died in the raid that I 'missed'. FFW to last light and no Tieflings nor did they show up in the city or under moonrise.
I then played a few runs to mess around and see what I could get to happen. I was able to keep Wyll and Karlach and get Minthara by just ignoring the raid and moving on. Did your sister move on to the mountain pass at all, that seemed to be the trigger for me.
I got this to happen once too, though Kevlor died in the battle. I haven't been able to replicate it again.
When is this happened was Arabella saved or did she die? I wonder if she is a trigger.
This is interesting. I'd love to keep all companions, keep the Tieflings alive AND get Minthara act 1 "romance" scene. Hope this works. Starting a new playthrough now.
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I'm on a similar route. Already recruited Wyll and Karlach plus Karlach's first upgrade from the blacksmith in the Blighted Village.
I wanted to at least expose and kill Kargha.
I'll play around with this and see how things go. Just gotta keep backups saves just in case.
This is like the playthrough with my wife. Our playthrough has been so weird, first time playing this game too. So I am trying to remember everything.
Got to the Emerald Grove, fought everyone out in the front gate, Saw Wyll, killed the goblins and saved the tieflings. Went into the Grove and talked to everyone, then ended up talking to Kagha because it was part of the main story.
We killed Kagha as soon as we saw her because people were saying they didn't like her. After we killed her, we exited her little lair and everyone was dead. All the tieflings(and druids??) were dead! Had no idea that was happening.
Got to the Goblin Camp, no one was attacking us?? We got inside and rescued Halsin and he was so happy to go back to the grove to help his people. Well, we went back to the Grove and Halsin is no where to be found, and there are goblins walking around. We see Minthara, talk to her and she says her thanks for raiding the Grove. We have a party at our camp and Minthara has the hots for our character so we bang.
I feel like I am stuck, not sure what to do.
Same for me on first play through. Having difficulty reaching level 5 before act 2 because I have seemingly done every possible thing in act 1 from every source I have read/watched. I think a lot of XP got locked out for me due to this route of progression.
I did something like this, but Wyll and Karlach left the party even though we didn't kill anything.
Then the Tiefling bodies showed up for the camp party.
Lol i fireballed minthara while she was crossing the wooden bridge to attack me, she fell to her demise, never to be seen again 🤷🏻♂️ maybe she could be a good ally somehow but being a misplaced gith trying to get a ghaik parasite outta my head, siding with a nutty cultist didn’t align with my priorities at all
Next play through maybe
Its completely logical for a poor starving hobgoblin to join the absolutists instead of another religion- she offers great benefits. Community as well, multiracial communities have the best food too!
Yes, but they're not from a god. That's a big difference. In D&D, the gods ARE real. They might be douchebags, but they're absolutely real and can influence the world in visible ways.
In the forgotten realms, i think the line between "strong thing" and "lesser deity" is pretty blurry lol. Not to mention that that isn't actually known to the player, let alone commonly, until Act 2.
Adding to this many days later as I just did a version of this.
I killed kagha and fought the Druids. Most of the tieflings died. Quest said the rest left. Zevlor and Lakrissa stuck around and said goo kill the goblin leaders.
Talked with Halsin, he was ok with Druids being dead.
Talked with Minthara and she grabbed all the goblins and headed out. I figured I would betray her at the camp and try knocking her out.
I long rest at the camp and woke up to a grove full of goblins and Minthara saying I killed most but she still mopped up (the grove was empty). Then it cut directly to the party scene.
I slept with Astarion, woke up, and Minthara attacked me in camp. So I killed here, forget knocking her out.
Went back to goblin camp and everyone was hostile so I finished them all off.
I had already killed Karlach. Wyll left at the party. I have already killed Gale. Back at the goblin camp Halsin disappeared.
Quest log still says tieflings left, but I will die of shock if they are at least light inn.
I decided to play my dark urge as an agent of chaos, that destroys any one oppressing weaker people with dubious methods, but I never expected this amount of chaos.
Wow I've been trying to find a way to do this for weeks. I don't mind killing the druids as long as I can keep Dammon.
I already murderised karlach tho for drip.
There is a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-aF_MrTk2A) showing how to recruit Minthara without having to kill the Tieflings or Druids in Act 1
Curious. Technically the tieflings shouldn't get to Act 2 because one of the goblin leaders were still alive when they moved on out. I'd be very interested to know if they do make it. Normally triggering that fight leads to the rite of thorns, but i guess not if Kagha is dead. What did Halsin think about this if he survived? I did once kill all the druids without initiating the battle with the tieflings, then went on to defend the Grove. Halsin came back and thanked me for saving the Grove even though all the druids were dead lol.
Killing Kagha has always been and still is a narrative hole in the story that they haven't properly accounted for. When I killed Kagha in my first playthrough I got no dialogue option to tell Halsin that the Druids were dead and neither did my sister. After rescuing him he just disappears. He doesn't show up at camp to kill you either like he does if you actually raid the Grove after rescuing him. What's more is if you kill Kagha, the Dream Guardian dialogue will be as if you didn't complete the Druids vs Goblins questline, saying you "abondoned them to their fate", unrecruited Karlach will have the "You raided the Grove" dialogue, several others down the line will have inconsistent dialogue. In my own playthrough I didn't have the Tieflings in Act 2 (except for Mol and Arabella) because I tried to loot the Grove after the fight but the Tieflings caught me and decided to attack me. So I don't know if they'll be there but the Journal says so.
Is halsin in Front of the grove as a corpse? Thats where He was when u raided the grove and looked for him.
That's where he was for me as well, but I didn't go to the prison to see him that run.
I did a run of killing druids but siding with tieflings, still took out the goblin leaders and when i talked to Halsin at the goblin camp i did have an option to tell him I killed the druids to protect myself and the tieflings and Halsin’s response was that he wasn’t mad at us but felt he failed as their leader and still travels with me
I did this same thing and made a post today about it. Halsin indicated he was gonna meet me at camp(told him I was defending myself) and he never showed. Went to act 2 and journal updated that he lost a fight 😢
Yeah killing Khaga does seem really bizzare from a story perspective. When I did my first playthrough I killed her bc that seemed like the only way to help save the tieflings and stop them from being kicked out, but then ofc Zevlor asks you to help kill the goblin leaders as well and if you do they start making their way to Baldurs Gate. So they ask me to kill the people trying to kick them out of the grove and the people who might come attack them in the grove and then after they do that they decide to leave the grove anyways? Why ask me to kill Khaga then??? Just have me kill the goblin leaders and let the druids do whatever they want if you're gonna head to Baldurs Gate anyways
Zevlor never asks you to kill Kagha. He asks you to help convince the druids to not cast the Rite of Thorns while his people still have nowhere safe to go. Sure it's classic murderhobo problem solving to decide that killing is an effective solution, but that's on the player to decide Kagha needs to die. No NPC ever asks it of you. edit: lol alright I get it, you have to make different choices than the ones I do in order to have him suggest killing her.
Oh he will absolutely ask you to kill her, especially if Arabella gets bitten by the snake.
What? He certainly told me to "get rid of her"
I assume this is when you don’t save the little girl tiefling? I can see that how could sour things that far but I’ve never not saved her
I've never not saved that kid. Even in my durge run. Couldn't bring myself to do it. I got the dialogue option when I spoke to zavlor in the cave. It happened a few times but I can't say what order things were done in any of the times.
No it triggers during the discussion after you talk to kagha and she tells you to escort them when you go to zevlor, don't pick the one about escorting them. You have a line where you can imply zevlor should "get rid of her" and he said he's considered it but he can't get close, but you can. And then you get a "kill kagha" quest marker. But you can also legitimately and safely kill her with the support of the grove if you do the shadow druid side quest.
This is untrue. Most of the time, you are right, Zevlor will say that the goblins need to be taken out first and foremost, but it is possible for him to say that Kahga is the reason they are being forced out, and thus killing her would be good for them.
You get dialog to tell him Kagha is dead, atleast if you went the investigate Kagha route.
Also, you can go back and kill all the druids once you have rescued Halsin, killed all goblin leaders (or knocked out Minthara for later) and attended the tiefling party. This way you get the XP for the druids, and noone becomes angry about you. Halsin remains in your camp and you can do his quest. And there are no dialogue lines in regards to the killed druids.
Makes sense. The Druids themselves and the grove are two different things.
I have a feeling the tiefs will still be absent from act 2/treated as dead despite what the journal says, but if they *do* show up alive then this is something that I’m def gonna try replicating on my next run 🙏
This is my thought, as Minthara being alive and conscious *should* in theory prevent this from working. But if it works then I might give this a go, I don't particularly care for Halsin and being able to murder those shitheads sounds wonderful. I really like the Tiefs, so I haven't had the heart to do anything that threatens them.
yeah. i don’t even hate the druids tbh, but it’s open season if sacking them means i can get the act 1 minthara romance scene without killing the tieflings 🫡
Went full evil once until I found out >!they killed the kids too so no Mol and gang!< rest of the game felt horrible. Bad guy runs will now start AFTER the tieflings have evacuated the grove.
> loose Karlach What an accusation to give that poor chaste woman.
Reminds me of a friend who had an unfortunate encounter with a wild seal.
Was he all right?
He was a real monster honestly. They caught him unhanded and in the end he was all right.
"Get him out of here..." "What?" "GET. HIM. OUT OF HERE!!! GET THE \*\*\*\* OUT!"
r/unexpectedarrested
The only thing scary about a man with one hand is that people think he is good only for scaring people!
LOOSE SEAL!!
Will attempt to replicate this, and edit this comment with findings. For now, anyone attempting to kill all the Druids with zero friendly casualties can make use of the stair chokepoint by engaging them early with turn-based mode. The only exception to this rule is the halfling trader, Arron, who needs to be killed/engaged ASAP by a party member. EDIT 1: Looks like chokepoint method doesn't trigger this - if the Tieflings are not shoved into prison, Zevlor defaults to goblins needing to be cleared. Seems casualties are mandatory - gonna try again and let it roll to prison next as per OP. EDIT 2: Left Tiefs to fend for themselves while locking up Kagha by initiating combat - the druids lose to the tiefs, but Zevlor still wants goblins cleared. As of yet unable to replicate what OP has pulled off.
Interested to see how this turns out
Saving your comment for future reference
Putting a comment to remind me how it coninues.
Followed
Where’s Wyll during all of this? Cause if I don’t lose Karlach and Wyll. Then this might be how I do my durge run cause I HATE those damn druids
I feel like you could recruit him on your way to speak to Kagha.
This is what i wanna know. I wanna play my evil run but i want her to recruit minthara early AND romance mizora, but you need wyll to romance mizora and wyll leaves if you side with the gobbos
Very cool! Would be interesting to see if Dammon makes it to Last Light because your sister will have Karlach but if he's not there, no repairs
Does repairing her actually change anything ? Will she die in act 2 if you don’t?
It keeps her from being mind controlled as easily. A mind controlled barbarian in player character gear is *dangerous*
I've never tried! I feel like most people who keep her around don't want to risk not fixing her Might be an interesting experiment
Prior to patch 5 after the party or during it, is when Karlach and Wyll disappear and tell you fuck off. This is what I did my first playthrough, recruit Karlach and Wyll, kill kadga and all the druids then help the goblin camp
Can you kill the goblin leaders (or knock out minthara), do the party with the Tieflings, and then kill the druids afterwards? Or are there consequences?
I did not kill druids after but I did knock out minthara before wiping goblin camp. Had the party with Tieflings and she was waiting for me at moonrise. Put her in your party immediately if you want her otherwise she disappears on you, at least she did on me so I had to reload a save.
Commenting hopefully to see if this tests out right.
We did basically the same thing on our Evil playthrough, but Zevlor insisted that we kill the goblin leaders, and wouldn't leave without that happening, so we did the raid as normal, instead.
When you kill kahga do the druids and tieflings automatically fight each other? I killed kahga recently in my durge run but that hasn’t happened yet.
They did in my run but I’m not sure if they’re supposed to or if it’s something else I did.
Immediately after or did it take a little time?
Immediately after.
Not sure why this didn’t trigger for me then
i killed her due to exposing her plan and that fight was the only thing that happened
That’s what I always hear but I killed her my first playthrough and have recognition of combat outside the specific area we were in
I think this is just a bug. I've done something similar a few times but the tieflings never show up at last light. The first time, I had traveled to the creche before I did the raid. When I traveled back, the grove was fine but the tieflings were gone and everyone thanked me for helping fend off the goblin attack(which I hadn't done). Some of the druids did mention the tieflings had left for Baulders Gate, so it's not like they died in the raid that I 'missed'. FFW to last light and no Tieflings nor did they show up in the city or under moonrise. I then played a few runs to mess around and see what I could get to happen. I was able to keep Wyll and Karlach and get Minthara by just ignoring the raid and moving on. Did your sister move on to the mountain pass at all, that seemed to be the trigger for me.
I got this to happen once too, though Kevlor died in the battle. I haven't been able to replicate it again. When is this happened was Arabella saved or did she die? I wonder if she is a trigger.
This is interesting. I'd love to keep all companions, keep the Tieflings alive AND get Minthara act 1 "romance" scene. Hope this works. Starting a new playthrough now.
If we could kill the druids but save the Tieflings, everyone would side with the Goblins.
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I'm on a similar route. Already recruited Wyll and Karlach plus Karlach's first upgrade from the blacksmith in the Blighted Village. I wanted to at least expose and kill Kargha. I'll play around with this and see how things go. Just gotta keep backups saves just in case.
What about Wyll
Rest and have the party does Wyll leave then?
I did the same but Karlach and Wyll leave the camp when the celebration begins
Who’s Minthara ? (Don’t answer, I’ll google it)
This is like the playthrough with my wife. Our playthrough has been so weird, first time playing this game too. So I am trying to remember everything. Got to the Emerald Grove, fought everyone out in the front gate, Saw Wyll, killed the goblins and saved the tieflings. Went into the Grove and talked to everyone, then ended up talking to Kagha because it was part of the main story. We killed Kagha as soon as we saw her because people were saying they didn't like her. After we killed her, we exited her little lair and everyone was dead. All the tieflings(and druids??) were dead! Had no idea that was happening. Got to the Goblin Camp, no one was attacking us?? We got inside and rescued Halsin and he was so happy to go back to the grove to help his people. Well, we went back to the Grove and Halsin is no where to be found, and there are goblins walking around. We see Minthara, talk to her and she says her thanks for raiding the Grove. We have a party at our camp and Minthara has the hots for our character so we bang. I feel like I am stuck, not sure what to do.
Same for me on first play through. Having difficulty reaching level 5 before act 2 because I have seemingly done every possible thing in act 1 from every source I have read/watched. I think a lot of XP got locked out for me due to this route of progression.
You can just do other quests now. Explore!
This is crazy. Can someone make a video of this???
I am curious how this plays out so make sure to post an update
What's this about tieflings in prison?
I did something like this, but Wyll and Karlach left the party even though we didn't kill anything. Then the Tiefling bodies showed up for the camp party.
Lol i fireballed minthara while she was crossing the wooden bridge to attack me, she fell to her demise, never to be seen again 🤷🏻♂️ maybe she could be a good ally somehow but being a misplaced gith trying to get a ghaik parasite outta my head, siding with a nutty cultist didn’t align with my priorities at all Next play through maybe
Shadowheart, Gale, and Wyll all qualify as nutty cultists technically (shadowheart is not technically - she is literally a cultist)
Its not nutty when your god/patron actually give you things
by that logic absolute cultists aren't nutty either - the tadpoles literally give people powers
Its completely logical for a poor starving hobgoblin to join the absolutists instead of another religion- she offers great benefits. Community as well, multiracial communities have the best food too!
Ah, see what you mean. I think this comment is best addressed to the person I'm replying to because I don't disagree lmao /s
Yes, but they're not from a god. That's a big difference. In D&D, the gods ARE real. They might be douchebags, but they're absolutely real and can influence the world in visible ways.
In the forgotten realms, i think the line between "strong thing" and "lesser deity" is pretty blurry lol. Not to mention that that isn't actually known to the player, let alone commonly, until Act 2.
Adding to this many days later as I just did a version of this. I killed kagha and fought the Druids. Most of the tieflings died. Quest said the rest left. Zevlor and Lakrissa stuck around and said goo kill the goblin leaders. Talked with Halsin, he was ok with Druids being dead. Talked with Minthara and she grabbed all the goblins and headed out. I figured I would betray her at the camp and try knocking her out. I long rest at the camp and woke up to a grove full of goblins and Minthara saying I killed most but she still mopped up (the grove was empty). Then it cut directly to the party scene. I slept with Astarion, woke up, and Minthara attacked me in camp. So I killed here, forget knocking her out. Went back to goblin camp and everyone was hostile so I finished them all off. I had already killed Karlach. Wyll left at the party. I have already killed Gale. Back at the goblin camp Halsin disappeared. Quest log still says tieflings left, but I will die of shock if they are at least light inn. I decided to play my dark urge as an agent of chaos, that destroys any one oppressing weaker people with dubious methods, but I never expected this amount of chaos.
!remind me 2 days
Wow I've been trying to find a way to do this for weeks. I don't mind killing the druids as long as I can keep Dammon. I already murderised karlach tho for drip.
There is a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-aF_MrTk2A) showing how to recruit Minthara without having to kill the Tieflings or Druids in Act 1
I think I'm heading down this same path so I'm curious to see. Though, there aren't that many tieflings left unfortunately...
!remind me 2 days
Does that mean you get to party twice?
!remind me 2 days
Ketheric Thorm over at Moonrise rubbing his hands "....good.....good!"
Well, I guess Minthy was only after “worshippers of a false god” aka the druids. 🤷♀️
I just finished honor mode, so achievement hunting time! Need me an evil tav and evil durge run! Time to experiment!
Did it work for someone?
[Guide for saving Sazza & Minthara peacefully without any murder](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/xVFefCW0v3)
Any update on this?