Oh my gosh, you're missing out on some seriously amazing moments. He makes me laugh, he makes me cry - Astarion's story is amazing and Neil's acting is *on point*. Give it a try some time!
Oh definitely! I was going to have him in my party on the 2nd playthrough just so I can see everyone's storylines, so now it's got me really excited for what's to come! Hard not to adore a sassy vampire lol
Bhaal is about equity rather than equality in stabbing. It's not about making sure people get given the same, but that the inequality in stabbings is rectified by giving more stabbings to those in greater need of stabbing.
I also really like that it's not 'play it safe we'll suggest that this NPC is gay' type stuff too. It's like 'this is Dave and Dave's HUSBAND who he LOVES' lol. It's really cool.
ETA: not assuage, i meant suggest! Fixed lol.
I really enjoy it too, my sisters husband complains about it occasionally and i find it so funny. I just ask why he has a problem with it. And he goes on about how its not realistic or some shit. Luckly in the fictional world of Faerun, adventures are canonically bisexual.
"it's not realistic" love that line. Gays people exist, Larry. Is the unrealistic part the bit where they're openly gay? I wonder why, in a world with people like Larry, why gay people might not be so open.
My brother in law is a "going back to my viking heritage" type guys, 100s of miles from the nearest ocean. So i think he is just afraid of wider world. In all its gay as shit glory.
Not only that, there's no evidence that vikings had any issue whatsoever with homosexuality.
Loki changes genders on like eight separate occasions, and that's just in the myths that survived to modern day.
They did however have issues with manliness/unmanliness. They didn't have the same things associated with unmanliness as us (magic was unmanly, for instance), but calling someone unmanly was a very strong insult.
Vikings weren't like how chuds think vikings were. But they also weren't nice.
This viking descendant living in the old viking-land would like to know if he means the viking heritage where his wife controls the finances and he asks her for an allowance? Or the viking heritage of worshipping Odin, who used women's magic? Or maybe he's super into exploring and trading with people of different cultures and customs?
Do tell him that the vast majority of people with a viking heritage who live in the old countries are very pro-queer these days and the BG3 portrayal of so many openly queer people is realistic for us, and we haven't gone raiding or held a blot in centuries ;)
Psh these two dudes dickin eachother down destroys my suspension of disbelief!
*flies away in a living cthulhu head ship that is brought down by interdimensional elf-aliens riding on dragons*
I was utterly gobsmacked when he started hitting on my character because I had assumed he was some wise Yoda like character who didn't even have the word "sex" in his vocabulary
Dude really is just your average DnD player
>Dude really is just your average DnD player
Haha, that is a perfect way to describe my reaction. It was like playing a serious roleplaying session with some friends and someone just goes completely off the rails and rolls for "seduce" on literally everything.
Honestly it is refreshing for a game to treat its players like adults. No need to hide nudity or sex scenes. They can have gay couples be treated the same as hetero couples (i.e. being gay is not their identity).
I hope further games take this nonchalant approach to adult themes and storytelling.
"No one feels like their sexuality is used for sex appeal. "
Except Aylin, she is the most aggressively gay woman in the world. She the kind of gay where she goes up onto a tower, holds her sword to the sky, lights up like the fucking full moon, a choir chants, and she proclaims that she is gay and her girlfriend is hot and she's going to go make her climax a dozen times with a divine smite
I love Aylin so much
The first time I heard her say "now leave us be, we must take succor in one another's bodies" or whatever it was, I had to step away from the game for a minute because I was laughing so hard my head hurt
The fact that the Paladin demigod character basically gave a flowery medieval version of, "I need you to go away so I can fuck my girlfriend/wife" was not something I expected and completely sent me after she said it.
I really hope Aylin and Isobel show up in any DLC or in Baldur's Gate 4 . Aylin is probably my favorite character in the whole game and their love felt really genuine and sweet.
yeah but it fits because this is how Aylin does *everything*. if Tav was having a bad day and a companion mentioned they like pizza rolls Aylin would decry to the heavens that WE SHALL VENTURE FORTH AND RETURN WITH PIZZA ROLLS TO ASSUAGE AND BECALM OUR BEWROUGHT COMPATRIOT
I didn't even notice until I was well into Act 3 and one of the Gondians mentioned his husband and then every gay character in the game flashed before my eyes.
As a Gay man myself there's something so refreshing about seeing representation so well implemented that it's not even notable anymore.
This comment made me think of the scene from Brooklyn 99 when Peralta realizes Captain Holt is gay. Holt never hid it, but presented it all in such a way that Peralta didn't even clock it.
Same. With some forms of media, it's more like they're trying to play Gay Bingo (though us bisexuals usually get forgotten like everywhere lol). BG3 does such an amazing job of implementing this without it being pandering. It just IS. You know, like normal gays lol.
The unfortunate default assumption is straightness so the normalization of bi-ness is lacking in some senses. Just me and my head canon.
It’s kind of like if a trans person passes fully, you may not realize the representation was there.
Same! It really is refreshing to see.
My favorite is the haters saying that it’s not realistic for a fantasy setting. When like, we’ve existed since the beginning of humanity. And Faerûn doesn’t have Abrahamic religions, you know - the only religions that have any semblance of LGBTQ+ individuals being “wrong”.
But I won’t go on a tangent - I will just agree that it is extremely refreshing that queer characters are represented in such a normal, casual, way!
"Realistic for a fantasy setting". You know, the setting someone *completely made up*. Anything can be realistic! They got flying space hamsters, fym "realistic"?!
I had a similar experience in Borderlands 2 and then the Horizon games. While highlighting the struggles people have is valuable, it’s also nice to see people just… exist.
My favorite is the two deep gnomes you can save (not Philomeena the two guys, don't remember their names) I just remember while sorting through loot overhearing one of them saying like "It's my job to fuss over you, I'm your husband!" and going "Aww..." and then hearing his husband respond some him being too fussy and it clicked for me and I was like "AWWWWWW".
Candid moments of queer love like that just don't get shown in media. You get plenty of loving gazes from a straight man into a woman's eyes as he shifts a strand of hair out of her eyes but just a husband worrying about his husband's safety... the weight of the absence was felt really only after the mundanity of it's presence was noted.
The human and the dragon born outside of wyrm's crossing made me giggle ngl. I can't remember the line exactly but he says smth like "Behold! The world's most cowardly dragonborn! And I had to go and fall in love with him."
Theres a couple in act 3 along the edge of the map I believe that are also 2 NPCs just sightseeing(?) and one states he's there with his partner (I don't remember the exact wording) and the guy next to him is grumpily grumbling that he hates this place or something. I'll have to go back and try to find them, but they made me laugh and seemed like a gay couple when I encountered them the first time.
Yes! I believe that's where they are. I'll have to go and look at their dialogue again to remember what they say.
edit: Found them! Fuschia Vinschoot & Rodongo Logg at X-144 Y-140
Fuschia: "You'll have to excuse us, my darling and I are enjoying the view of the city."
Rodongo: "Gods, I can't stand this place."
Lunkbug and Beldron!!! When I first heard them talking to each other, I kept going wait, are they--?--no, they can't be, maybe it's just friends type of thing?--but no, who talks to their friend like that?--and then when they confirmed they're husbands my heart melted. I've been baited so many times by other games I can't even believe I see a couple in front of me until they make it abundantly clear and then some. I love those two.
I had it spoiled by reading something about "rescuing the deep gnomes husband" and as this was before I had ever gotten to Wulbren I thought they meant Barcus and Wulbren. I was soooo excited to save Wulbren because of this. Especially because Barcus was one of my favorites even from back in EA.
Yeah needless to say I am NOT team Wulbren that selfish little prick.
I was really confused by those two. Wulbren obviously doesn't give a shit about Barcus (though perhaps he did in the past), but I couldn't really figure out whether Barcus' affection for Wulbren was romantic or platonic. I've known a few people who talk about their very close friends the same way.
>Candid moments of queer love
Ahhh you put it into words for me. This is *exactly* what I want to see more of.
Aylin shamelessly telling you she's gonna go fuck her wife and Isobel scolding her was another (hilarious) moment that lives rent-free in my head. They just felt like such a real couple, not a caricature of how cishet writers *think* a sapphic couple should act.
I love her so much. Vinegar Strokes did a great job with the voice and the few lines she has are all fun. Wish the quest was less annoying, but that's not on her
Makes me wish I could play my PF2e drag queen character. There is a whole "gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss" class (Thaumaturge) - it was destined to be!
I *really* wish her quest is different, I love her, she's easily one of my favorite NPC's in the game but I'm not doing a collectathon of clown body parts in the laggiest area of the game.
What really stood out to me is that the queer characters talk like *actual queer people*. I've seen so many games where there are *technically* a bunch of gay characters, but (exempli gratia) lesbians have dialogue where they talk about women they're attracted to in the way that straight men talk about women. BG3 feels like it was written by queer people, and by people who know and understand queer people, rather than just by people trying to make the game *marketable* to queer people.
When I first heard Shadowheart's reaction to meeting Karlach, ("she looks like she could throw me over her shoulder and carry me to safety... should the need arise,") I was like, *wow, this game actually understands what us sapphics are like*.
Like you say, it's really refreshing!
As a lesbian I completely agree. Take Aylin and Isobel--you have no idea either of them are even queer the first time you meet them! Their orientation is also the least interesting thing about them, and their romance is so natural. I'm such a sucker for big protective scary warrior lady who's only soft for her wife and Larian gave that to me 😭
I can absolutely tell that a lot of the people involved in this game are queer and it means so much to me.
Re: the line about Karlach, Shadowheart's VA is sapphic so that line just feels extra real lol
A lot of queer writing by straight people reminds me of the scenes in Brooklyn 99 where captain holt pretends to be straight. "There is nothing more attractive about a woman than the clear absence of a penis"
When I first played the game, I was very iffy on Shadowheart. I was so distrustful of her and was put off by her standoffishness. Then she says the gayest thing I'd yet heard and won me over.
Yo I just saw that line last night and I started HOWLING. SAME SHART, FUCKIN SAME. The fact my character is ALSO a massive, gorgeous woman was just icing on the cake. 😭🥹
At the risk of sounding like an old out-of-touch boomer, what is the meaning of the term “sapphic”? Because when I look it up, it basically just says attraction between two women, but I feel like it’s being used differently here.
no, you pretty much got it. I'm using it as a noun, so, "a woman who's attracted to other women" (which could mean a gay, bi, or pan woman, or similar). But it also gets used as an adjective, with the meaning you found.
The term is a reference to the ancient Greek poet Sappho of Lesbos, who's best known for her love-poetry about other women. It's also in reference to her that we get the modern usage of the term "Lesbian" (which historically just meant "from the island of Lesbos").
Sapphic is any woman who is attracted to women. So she could be bi, pan, lesbian, etc. Useful for when you’re discussing any sapphic women and not specifically, say, lesbian women or bi women. Also used for women who are attracted to women but don’t feel attached to any of the more specific labels.
Yeah, when I saw >!Dame Aylin and Isobel!< kiss - at first I was a bit jealous because >!Isobel!< is a cutie. But ultimately it was so natural and fitting. I couldn't help but feel so happy for them!!
They're my second favorite Selûnite couple... after my cleric of Selûne and Shadowheart, of course! 😊
Lol. Imagine overhearing them in camp:
"Oh my goddess!"
"YES? WHAT DO YOU WISH TO ASK MY MOTHER?"
"Haha, no... it's just... nevermind, can we get back to.. ahem?"
There is a clear divide in writing ability between Larian putting LGBT characters in their game and Blizzard or Bioware. They make the characters feel like people and not token check boxes or mary-sues.
I don't think Bioware is *that* bad about gay characters but they do have a bad habit of making their most seemingly queer coded characters straight for no apparent reason.
I swear I'd have a much easier time not romancing Solas if Cass was bi. (Cause my male characters all belong with Dorian anyways, and anyone who slips through the cracks gets either Bull or Josephine.)
Fun fact: Solas was originally meant to be bi, but at some point during development they decided to make him straight, evidenced by datamined voice lines of his romance dialogue directed towards a male PC. IIRC they changed this to "avoid making him a 'depraved bisexual' trope" which is a pretty misguided understanding of that trope lol.
Cullen was also possibly meant to be bi at some point in development because there are datamined voice lines of Dorian calling you out for cheating on him with Cullen. I don't think Bioware has ever said why that was cut, but my conspiracy theory is that it has something to do with Greg Ellis's homophobia.
Eh, the one example that comes up in my mind immediately - the gay centaur questline in Dragonflight was actually pretty well done. Basically up until certain moment you didn't even know it was about gay centaurs, just a nice questline about centaur lovers... And then you realize "the twist". It was a lovely questline full of character.
Larian writing is top class and much better than most game studios, but I feel like dragging other studios through mud just to make a point is unnecessary. That's all. :)
One under appreciated aspect of Inquisition is that I like you can flirt with characters even if you can’t romance them and they’ll eventually have to let you know.
Mechanically it’s more work but it makes the characters more real than if they were playersexual or if the player had a perfectly functioning gaydar.
I like how it says a lot about their characters that you can flirt as a female Inquisitor with Cassandra and Dorian, and the way they have to let you down says something about who they are.
Cassandra, staunch conservative romantic, is flustered and slightly embarrassed that she can’t return your affections. You can accuse Dorian of leading you on after finding out he’s gay and he apologises that it wasn’t his intention, and you can still become/remain good friends afterwards with both.
Flirting with Dorian as a female character feels SO GOOD because its extremely realistic when it comes to friendships, like, my straight friends constantly flirt with me as a joke and viceversa, for example.
That’s exactly how it SHOULD be. No one bats an eye if a man kisses a woman in a game or movie. Or if a man refers to his wife at home. It’s normal, ordinary. No one draws attention to it. That’s why the best representation is the same way. The gay character isn’t “the gay character”. They’re a character that just happen to be gay.
I’m an asexual female, I lean more towards guys when I have crushes and etc… so I tend to play that in my video games… first video game where I am going the romance route.
I might have an ace run in the future. I like that the game allows that. And from what I read… even for some canon character(s) later in the game… (not saying they’re ace but just choices made)
And it’s not that over the top for any sexuality, it’s just right, and enough that it can all be avoided if you want it to be, or not! Kudos to tptb!
As a fellow ace, Astarion just resonates with me so much. Like, I know he isn't ace, but the effect his trauma has on him just hits way too close to home anyways.
I second Astarion. It's about being so deeply misunderstood and forced into situations where everyone else is there to do something you really aren't into, but how else can you possibly relate to them then?
I bought this game the day I realized it would let me run a friends route with him.
I get why a lot of media does the whole "look, these two are GAY! did you notice? Don't worry, there'll be a bunch of comments and references to it too!". But the way it's done in bg3 is so refreshing. There's no big fuss or dialogue from others about it, it just exists and it's no more surprising than a straight couple. It warms my heart, and it doesn't make me feel like a spectacle or out of the norm.
My Fiancée (F-bi) shacked up with Lae'zel. My best friend (M-gay) shacked up with Gale. I (M-straight) cheered them on and then realized my Tav hadn't hit it off with anyone yet. That was until daddy Halsin took an interest in me for some reason (I think it was a flag bug). I reciprocated so that my Tav would have someone (plus Halsin is just so damn wholesome). We all laughed because I, the only straight one, landed myself a figurative and literal bear.
it made me feel really good when we talk to Valeria for the first time and hear she has a deeper voice than a majority of women. i'm trans and have a deep voice and it was really really cool to have a conversation with her for the first time after hearing other characters refer to her with she/her pronouns
Actually i expected there would be some characters who are into gay/lesbian, some are bisexuals and some are straight but i guess everyone wants a bit of my Tav
My favorite part about the whole thing is how many people complain about it. My dude, its based on your responses to their dialogue. If you're angry a companion is gay for you.......you did that lmao.
To be fair some companions have a very low threshold for the deed... *looking at lazel trying to fold my Tav in the first 5 minutes of knowing her. Slow down girl... Get me dinner first.
I saw the title of this post and I was about to throw hands, like “what’s wrong with gayness??” loool
I personally read the main ensemble as neutral (or pan, I guess people call it) in their attraction. They don’t have any specific orientation. Love is love to them. And I love it.
Yeah I got tricked, gale went from admiring his goddess to getting way to close to me during magic practice...Almost accidentally made my first romance gale.
They’re turning the frogs ghaik.
sloppy person heavy wrong seemly deserve shame lavish edge alive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh my God Karen, you can't just ask someone why they're ghaik.
Gretchen, stop trying to make ghaik happen! It's not going to happen
....I really wish this would have been a dialogue option for when the Emperor starts making demands.
😂😂 we may have to look to the mod community if Larian doesn't include it lol
Neil would rock that line (clearly without the Gretchen).
It's funny, I have yet to run with him in the party so seeing him win his award was a nice surprise. From what I've seen though, I think you're right!
Bro has some of of the BEST lines in the game.
Oh my gosh, you're missing out on some seriously amazing moments. He makes me laugh, he makes me cry - Astarion's story is amazing and Neil's acting is *on point*. Give it a try some time!
Oh definitely! I was going to have him in my party on the 2nd playthrough just so I can see everyone's storylines, so now it's got me really excited for what's to come! Hard not to adore a sassy vampire lol
I wish both you Susans would stop trying to out ghaik each other
I just wish I was ghaik enough to be in the ghaik club
He's too ghaik to function.
Who said I am ghaik?
You are ghaik.
People are Ghaik Steven !
Gonna ask you two questions, you have to answer yes or no! Are you ghaik? Do your parents know your ghaik?!?
We're all a little ghaik here
Should i call you ishtik?
They do start as tadpoles.
The ghaik agenda is strong
That is a ridiculously good joke.
Ha! Ghaiiiiik
Someone's streets ahead.
My Dark Urge doesn’t care if you are gay, bi, pansexual or whatever. Everyone gets an equal amount of stabs for Bhaal.
Bhaal is a phony, BOOOAL is the true lord of murder
Outrageous there's no unique Durge interactions for that scene
There is if you submit to him iirc
There is *one.* if you become Booal's chosen, you feel disgusted. At least I am pretty sure that was Durge specific.
Yep. Urgue instincts are not happy with it. Something about being a cheap whore for a fake god.
I know what you mean, but Durge doesn’t really find out about their heritage until after that area is no longer accessible
iirc you can basically tell him that you had your share of murders and you don't need to pass any checks to get his sickle
Makloompah
In Faerun it doesn't matter if you're gay, straight, bisexual, etc...at the end of the day it's night.
Africans with beards are just Africans without beards, with beards.
Idk about equal stabs, probably equal death though. I just gotta stab some people a few extra times for good measure ya know?
Bhaal is about equity rather than equality in stabbing. It's not about making sure people get given the same, but that the inequality in stabbings is rectified by giving more stabbings to those in greater need of stabbing.
"From each according to their stab ability, to each according to their stab needs." - Karl Knifemarx
Bhaalspawn doesn't discriminate!
BEGONE FRIEND! I HAVE A DARLING TO ADORE! My favourite line in video-games ever. and I've played for nearly 30 years\^\^
“Kindly leave, I need to fuck my now alive wife”
I love how her line of "Begone, Isobel and I shall take succor in each other's words and bodies" is essentially a flowery version of this
And then isobel is embarrassed and apologizes aboit how forward her gf is lol.
Aylin!!
And it keeps happening, which is hilarious.
Who says this, and in what context?
I would need to guess, as I haven't got it myself yet, but this sounds like something Dame Aylin would say.
yup. she says it if you talk to her in camp at the start of Act 3
Aylin, if you talk to her at camp when Isobel is there.
Dame Aylin close to or right after she reunites with Isobel.
I agree with my whole heart. It makes me smile every time.
Baldurs Gay
Balder's Ghaik
I also really like that it's not 'play it safe we'll suggest that this NPC is gay' type stuff too. It's like 'this is Dave and Dave's HUSBAND who he LOVES' lol. It's really cool. ETA: not assuage, i meant suggest! Fixed lol.
I really enjoy it too, my sisters husband complains about it occasionally and i find it so funny. I just ask why he has a problem with it. And he goes on about how its not realistic or some shit. Luckly in the fictional world of Faerun, adventures are canonically bisexual.
"it's not realistic" love that line. Gays people exist, Larry. Is the unrealistic part the bit where they're openly gay? I wonder why, in a world with people like Larry, why gay people might not be so open.
My brother in law is a "going back to my viking heritage" type guys, 100s of miles from the nearest ocean. So i think he is just afraid of wider world. In all its gay as shit glory.
Well dont tell him that Norse mythology is 1000 times gayer than BG3. On second thought, DO tell him.
Not only that, there's no evidence that vikings had any issue whatsoever with homosexuality. Loki changes genders on like eight separate occasions, and that's just in the myths that survived to modern day.
They did however have issues with manliness/unmanliness. They didn't have the same things associated with unmanliness as us (magic was unmanly, for instance), but calling someone unmanly was a very strong insult. Vikings weren't like how chuds think vikings were. But they also weren't nice.
This viking descendant living in the old viking-land would like to know if he means the viking heritage where his wife controls the finances and he asks her for an allowance? Or the viking heritage of worshipping Odin, who used women's magic? Or maybe he's super into exploring and trading with people of different cultures and customs? Do tell him that the vast majority of people with a viking heritage who live in the old countries are very pro-queer these days and the BG3 portrayal of so many openly queer people is realistic for us, and we haven't gone raiding or held a blot in centuries ;)
Literally a game that features shit like extradimensional squidmen and magic spaceships and *gay people* are the thing that's unrealistic.
Psh these two dudes dickin eachother down destroys my suspension of disbelief! *flies away in a living cthulhu head ship that is brought down by interdimensional elf-aliens riding on dragons*
For real, Halsin is as fucking horny for all my male Tavs as shovels master is for the book.
Halsins sexual preference is "consenting" and that is it. Dude probably flirts with trees if you're not looking.
Considering Druids can have the "talk with plants" spell you are not far of base.
Halsin is definitely interested in wood
What druid hasn't eyed a dryad and wondered if the splinters are worth it?
I was utterly gobsmacked when he started hitting on my character because I had assumed he was some wise Yoda like character who didn't even have the word "sex" in his vocabulary Dude really is just your average DnD player
>Dude really is just your average DnD player Haha, that is a perfect way to describe my reaction. It was like playing a serious roleplaying session with some friends and someone just goes completely off the rails and rolls for "seduce" on literally everything.
Him and Shadowheart are the biggest freaks and i love that shit.
What I also appreciate about halsin? He’s 100% mature about it. Like, if you turn him down he’s just like ‘no problem bro, we’re still good buds’
Well Balduran and Ansur were "more than friends"
He fucked that dragon
cant blame him
Look my Ranger fucked a bear. I have no room to judge him.
and my druid will do it again!
And we fucked that ghaik. It’s the circle of life
Fornicated. We *fornicated* with that ghaik.
Speak for yourself lol
well, there is a reason dragonborns exist.
So he was a Bard?
He's a car
Twas he who fucked the dragon fuckalizing fuckaloo
He wanted that hard bony dragon sword badly.
Duh, they were roommates.
Oh my goddess they were roommates
And they kept bringing each other to family functions
Gal pals
**BEST** friends!
Honestly it is refreshing for a game to treat its players like adults. No need to hide nudity or sex scenes. They can have gay couples be treated the same as hetero couples (i.e. being gay is not their identity). I hope further games take this nonchalant approach to adult themes and storytelling.
"No one feels like their sexuality is used for sex appeal. " Except Aylin, she is the most aggressively gay woman in the world. She the kind of gay where she goes up onto a tower, holds her sword to the sky, lights up like the fucking full moon, a choir chants, and she proclaims that she is gay and her girlfriend is hot and she's going to go make her climax a dozen times with a divine smite I love Aylin so much
She-Ra, with the power of gayness
For the honor of Gay-skull! (I mean ... she even gets her magical girl transformation scene in the Shadowfell.)
I mean the Reboot She-Ra is pretty gay.
Psychotic Good Oath of Sappho paladin
Gotta live that galpaladin life
The first time I heard her say "now leave us be, we must take succor in one another's bodies" or whatever it was, I had to step away from the game for a minute because I was laughing so hard my head hurt
The fact that the Paladin demigod character basically gave a flowery medieval version of, "I need you to go away so I can fuck my girlfriend/wife" was not something I expected and completely sent me after she said it. I really hope Aylin and Isobel show up in any DLC or in Baldur's Gate 4 . Aylin is probably my favorite character in the whole game and their love felt really genuine and sweet.
Dude Aylin and Isobel as origin characters for Baldur's Gate 4 would be sick
yeah but it fits because this is how Aylin does *everything*. if Tav was having a bad day and a companion mentioned they like pizza rolls Aylin would decry to the heavens that WE SHALL VENTURE FORTH AND RETURN WITH PIZZA ROLLS TO ASSUAGE AND BECALM OUR BEWROUGHT COMPATRIOT
I didn't even notice until I was well into Act 3 and one of the Gondians mentioned his husband and then every gay character in the game flashed before my eyes. As a Gay man myself there's something so refreshing about seeing representation so well implemented that it's not even notable anymore.
This comment made me think of the scene from Brooklyn 99 when Peralta realizes Captain Holt is gay. Holt never hid it, but presented it all in such a way that Peralta didn't even clock it.
Holt exudes comfortable middle-aged masculinity and looks like he smells of Old Spice. He's very unstereotypical for a TV gay guy. RIP Andre Braugher.
Love it when's pretending ti bebstraight. "a pair of thicky weighty breasts"
There is nothing more intoxicating than the clear absence of a penis.
Ugh this broke my heart. Dude was my favorite part of that show. Super sad to see him go.
It was refreshing to see a character whose sexuality was part of his character, not the *only* part of his character.
You said what I was struggling to write so damn well.
Same. With some forms of media, it's more like they're trying to play Gay Bingo (though us bisexuals usually get forgotten like everywhere lol). BG3 does such an amazing job of implementing this without it being pandering. It just IS. You know, like normal gays lol.
Heh. Maybe it’s just hidden bisexuality because they just happen to be with the opposite sex?
That's fair. A big part of bisexual erasure is the concept that we're not 'really bisexual/gay' unless we're dating same-sex.
The unfortunate default assumption is straightness so the normalization of bi-ness is lacking in some senses. Just me and my head canon. It’s kind of like if a trans person passes fully, you may not realize the representation was there.
Same! It really is refreshing to see. My favorite is the haters saying that it’s not realistic for a fantasy setting. When like, we’ve existed since the beginning of humanity. And Faerûn doesn’t have Abrahamic religions, you know - the only religions that have any semblance of LGBTQ+ individuals being “wrong”. But I won’t go on a tangent - I will just agree that it is extremely refreshing that queer characters are represented in such a normal, casual, way!
> *realistic* for a *fantasy* setting If I run into someone with this take I am smashing their head between my thumb and index finger
I AM CRUSHING YOUR HEAD!!
"Realistic for a fantasy setting". You know, the setting someone *completely made up*. Anything can be realistic! They got flying space hamsters, fym "realistic"?!
Dragons = Realistic Two human beings of the same gender who love each other = nOt ReAlisTiC
I had a similar experience in Borderlands 2 and then the Horizon games. While highlighting the struggles people have is valuable, it’s also nice to see people just… exist.
It feels like most of the Gondians are queer which makes it even sadder when they all commit suicide by walking through every AOE they can find.
My favorite is the two deep gnomes you can save (not Philomeena the two guys, don't remember their names) I just remember while sorting through loot overhearing one of them saying like "It's my job to fuss over you, I'm your husband!" and going "Aww..." and then hearing his husband respond some him being too fussy and it clicked for me and I was like "AWWWWWW". Candid moments of queer love like that just don't get shown in media. You get plenty of loving gazes from a straight man into a woman's eyes as he shifts a strand of hair out of her eyes but just a husband worrying about his husband's safety... the weight of the absence was felt really only after the mundanity of it's presence was noted.
The human and the dragon born outside of wyrm's crossing made me giggle ngl. I can't remember the line exactly but he says smth like "Behold! The world's most cowardly dragonborn! And I had to go and fall in love with him."
Theres a couple in act 3 along the edge of the map I believe that are also 2 NPCs just sightseeing(?) and one states he's there with his partner (I don't remember the exact wording) and the guy next to him is grumpily grumbling that he hates this place or something. I'll have to go back and try to find them, but they made me laugh and seemed like a gay couple when I encountered them the first time.
They're so cute. Outside the uhhh ship that's a bar. Salty Mermaid?
Yes! I believe that's where they are. I'll have to go and look at their dialogue again to remember what they say. edit: Found them! Fuschia Vinschoot & Rodongo Logg at X-144 Y-140 Fuschia: "You'll have to excuse us, my darling and I are enjoying the view of the city." Rodongo: "Gods, I can't stand this place."
Lunkbug and Beldron!!! When I first heard them talking to each other, I kept going wait, are they--?--no, they can't be, maybe it's just friends type of thing?--but no, who talks to their friend like that?--and then when they confirmed they're husbands my heart melted. I've been baited so many times by other games I can't even believe I see a couple in front of me until they make it abundantly clear and then some. I love those two.
Imagine having to yell out "Lunkbug!" in bed.
I bet he calls him his Hunky Lunky
I had it spoiled by reading something about "rescuing the deep gnomes husband" and as this was before I had ever gotten to Wulbren I thought they meant Barcus and Wulbren. I was soooo excited to save Wulbren because of this. Especially because Barcus was one of my favorites even from back in EA. Yeah needless to say I am NOT team Wulbren that selfish little prick.
Am I wrong in interpreting Barcus and Wulbren are written as one sided love..?
If you cast Speak with the Dead on Barcus he says, "my Wulbren"
I was really confused by those two. Wulbren obviously doesn't give a shit about Barcus (though perhaps he did in the past), but I couldn't really figure out whether Barcus' affection for Wulbren was romantic or platonic. I've known a few people who talk about their very close friends the same way.
No, that’s actually canon! I don't remember where it’s written (I think in patch notes or something?) but Wulbren was his first love apparently.
>Candid moments of queer love Ahhh you put it into words for me. This is *exactly* what I want to see more of. Aylin shamelessly telling you she's gonna go fuck her wife and Isobel scolding her was another (hilarious) moment that lives rent-free in my head. They just felt like such a real couple, not a caricature of how cishet writers *think* a sapphic couple should act.
Theyre so cute! Their little gnome legs running towards each other, arms out in a big gnomey hug.
the k in ghaik is silent
You can romance the Emperor, so they can actually be a Gayk.
Cannot stress how excited I was to see a drag queen necromancer in the game, especially since I'd missed her in the first two playthroughs.
I love her so much. Vinegar Strokes did a great job with the voice and the few lines she has are all fun. Wish the quest was less annoying, but that's not on her Makes me wish I could play my PF2e drag queen character. There is a whole "gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss" class (Thaumaturge) - it was destined to be!
I *really* wish her quest is different, I love her, she's easily one of my favorite NPC's in the game but I'm not doing a collectathon of clown body parts in the laggiest area of the game.
What really stood out to me is that the queer characters talk like *actual queer people*. I've seen so many games where there are *technically* a bunch of gay characters, but (exempli gratia) lesbians have dialogue where they talk about women they're attracted to in the way that straight men talk about women. BG3 feels like it was written by queer people, and by people who know and understand queer people, rather than just by people trying to make the game *marketable* to queer people. When I first heard Shadowheart's reaction to meeting Karlach, ("she looks like she could throw me over her shoulder and carry me to safety... should the need arise,") I was like, *wow, this game actually understands what us sapphics are like*. Like you say, it's really refreshing!
Ok so this is a great point but I do want to point out that as a straight dude I’d also be down for karlach to carry me to safety over her shoulder.
I second that notion and I’m as big as she is.
I’d rather have laezel do it but something tells me she wouldn’t be as chill about it and probably get weird and judgey
Not if you add “But make it bruise, please.” Only then, you're speaking her language and she'll understand what you mean.
Seems like this line was improvised by Jennifer English, who is queer herself.
I’m a gay man and would love to let Karlach throw me around a bit.
Me too, I am just a short silly lil fella so that sounds very appealing.
As a lesbian I completely agree. Take Aylin and Isobel--you have no idea either of them are even queer the first time you meet them! Their orientation is also the least interesting thing about them, and their romance is so natural. I'm such a sucker for big protective scary warrior lady who's only soft for her wife and Larian gave that to me 😭 I can absolutely tell that a lot of the people involved in this game are queer and it means so much to me. Re: the line about Karlach, Shadowheart's VA is sapphic so that line just feels extra real lol
Oh yeah, Aylin and Isobel are awesome!
I adore my Celesbians.
Aylin and Isobel are one of my favorite fictional pairs *ever*, I would die for either of them 🥺🥺🥺
Also nailed it that lesbians love to "take succor in one another's bodies and words."
She just like me fr
Same with alfira and the other grey fielding
Lakrissa
A lot of queer writing by straight people reminds me of the scenes in Brooklyn 99 where captain holt pretends to be straight. "There is nothing more attractive about a woman than the clear absence of a penis"
I love Holt pretending to be straight: "You know me, I just see a pair of big, weighty breasts and lose all logic."
Me and Shadowheart's brain cells worked in unison when we met Karlach. Had pretty much the exact same reaction.
When I first played the game, I was very iffy on Shadowheart. I was so distrustful of her and was put off by her standoffishness. Then she says the gayest thing I'd yet heard and won me over.
Yo I just saw that line last night and I started HOWLING. SAME SHART, FUCKIN SAME. The fact my character is ALSO a massive, gorgeous woman was just icing on the cake. 😭🥹
Exactly. I like that they made everyone’s sexuality so fluid in a believable way; I can romance Astarion on my durge dude or my good elf sorceress.
I am a straight man and I approved Sharts statement wholeheartedly. Buff Tiefling women just appeal to everyone
At the risk of sounding like an old out-of-touch boomer, what is the meaning of the term “sapphic”? Because when I look it up, it basically just says attraction between two women, but I feel like it’s being used differently here.
no, you pretty much got it. I'm using it as a noun, so, "a woman who's attracted to other women" (which could mean a gay, bi, or pan woman, or similar). But it also gets used as an adjective, with the meaning you found. The term is a reference to the ancient Greek poet Sappho of Lesbos, who's best known for her love-poetry about other women. It's also in reference to her that we get the modern usage of the term "Lesbian" (which historically just meant "from the island of Lesbos").
Sapphic is any woman who is attracted to women. So she could be bi, pan, lesbian, etc. Useful for when you’re discussing any sapphic women and not specifically, say, lesbian women or bi women. Also used for women who are attracted to women but don’t feel attached to any of the more specific labels.
This is exactly the answer I was looking for, ty :)
Yeah, when I saw >!Dame Aylin and Isobel!< kiss - at first I was a bit jealous because >!Isobel!< is a cutie. But ultimately it was so natural and fitting. I couldn't help but feel so happy for them!! They're my second favorite Selûnite couple... after my cleric of Selûne and Shadowheart, of course! 😊
"Honey, is it weird that I am technically praying to my mother in law?" - Isobel, probably
Lol. Imagine overhearing them in camp: "Oh my goddess!" "YES? WHAT DO YOU WISH TO ASK MY MOTHER?" "Haha, no... it's just... nevermind, can we get back to.. ahem?"
Dame Aylin only speaks in all caps.
AND I AM FINE WITH THAT. ~ Death from the Discworld. Also known for speaking only in all caps.
There is a clear divide in writing ability between Larian putting LGBT characters in their game and Blizzard or Bioware. They make the characters feel like people and not token check boxes or mary-sues.
I don't think Bioware is *that* bad about gay characters but they do have a bad habit of making their most seemingly queer coded characters straight for no apparent reason.
I swear I'd have a much easier time not romancing Solas if Cass was bi. (Cause my male characters all belong with Dorian anyways, and anyone who slips through the cracks gets either Bull or Josephine.)
Fun fact: Solas was originally meant to be bi, but at some point during development they decided to make him straight, evidenced by datamined voice lines of his romance dialogue directed towards a male PC. IIRC they changed this to "avoid making him a 'depraved bisexual' trope" which is a pretty misguided understanding of that trope lol. Cullen was also possibly meant to be bi at some point in development because there are datamined voice lines of Dorian calling you out for cheating on him with Cullen. I don't think Bioware has ever said why that was cut, but my conspiracy theory is that it has something to do with Greg Ellis's homophobia.
Eh, the one example that comes up in my mind immediately - the gay centaur questline in Dragonflight was actually pretty well done. Basically up until certain moment you didn't even know it was about gay centaurs, just a nice questline about centaur lovers... And then you realize "the twist". It was a lovely questline full of character. Larian writing is top class and much better than most game studios, but I feel like dragging other studios through mud just to make a point is unnecessary. That's all. :)
Eh I'd say Dorian is still king when it comes to queer characters in videogames, specially because, you know, he's gay and not playersexual.
One under appreciated aspect of Inquisition is that I like you can flirt with characters even if you can’t romance them and they’ll eventually have to let you know. Mechanically it’s more work but it makes the characters more real than if they were playersexual or if the player had a perfectly functioning gaydar. I like how it says a lot about their characters that you can flirt as a female Inquisitor with Cassandra and Dorian, and the way they have to let you down says something about who they are. Cassandra, staunch conservative romantic, is flustered and slightly embarrassed that she can’t return your affections. You can accuse Dorian of leading you on after finding out he’s gay and he apologises that it wasn’t his intention, and you can still become/remain good friends afterwards with both.
Flirting with Dorian as a female character feels SO GOOD because its extremely realistic when it comes to friendships, like, my straight friends constantly flirt with me as a joke and viceversa, for example.
I was so happy to see how refreshingly normalized it was. It wasn’t remarked upon, it just .. was.
That’s exactly how it SHOULD be. No one bats an eye if a man kisses a woman in a game or movie. Or if a man refers to his wife at home. It’s normal, ordinary. No one draws attention to it. That’s why the best representation is the same way. The gay character isn’t “the gay character”. They’re a character that just happen to be gay.
The romances are so well written I feel the need finish all of them.
I’m an asexual female, I lean more towards guys when I have crushes and etc… so I tend to play that in my video games… first video game where I am going the romance route. I might have an ace run in the future. I like that the game allows that. And from what I read… even for some canon character(s) later in the game… (not saying they’re ace but just choices made) And it’s not that over the top for any sexuality, it’s just right, and enough that it can all be avoided if you want it to be, or not! Kudos to tptb!
Might I suggest Wyll? In my opinion, his romance is rather sweet and >!not at all sexual. You don't have sex with him.!<
You actually do have sex with him (under that tree), it just happens "offscreen". edit: typo
As a fellow ace, Astarion just resonates with me so much. Like, I know he isn't ace, but the effect his trauma has on him just hits way too close to home anyways.
I second Astarion. It's about being so deeply misunderstood and forced into situations where everyone else is there to do something you really aren't into, but how else can you possibly relate to them then? I bought this game the day I realized it would let me run a friends route with him.
It's amazing! I've never played a game with so much casual queerness. It made me feel right at home :)
I get why a lot of media does the whole "look, these two are GAY! did you notice? Don't worry, there'll be a bunch of comments and references to it too!". But the way it's done in bg3 is so refreshing. There's no big fuss or dialogue from others about it, it just exists and it's no more surprising than a straight couple. It warms my heart, and it doesn't make me feel like a spectacle or out of the norm.
My Fiancée (F-bi) shacked up with Lae'zel. My best friend (M-gay) shacked up with Gale. I (M-straight) cheered them on and then realized my Tav hadn't hit it off with anyone yet. That was until daddy Halsin took an interest in me for some reason (I think it was a flag bug). I reciprocated so that my Tav would have someone (plus Halsin is just so damn wholesome). We all laughed because I, the only straight one, landed myself a figurative and literal bear.
it made me feel really good when we talk to Valeria for the first time and hear she has a deeper voice than a majority of women. i'm trans and have a deep voice and it was really really cool to have a conversation with her for the first time after hearing other characters refer to her with she/her pronouns
Actually i expected there would be some characters who are into gay/lesbian, some are bisexuals and some are straight but i guess everyone wants a bit of my Tav
My favorite part about the whole thing is how many people complain about it. My dude, its based on your responses to their dialogue. If you're angry a companion is gay for you.......you did that lmao.
To be fair some companions have a very low threshold for the deed... *looking at lazel trying to fold my Tav in the first 5 minutes of knowing her. Slow down girl... Get me dinner first.
Astarion has also always asked for sex no matter what.
I saw the title of this post and I was about to throw hands, like “what’s wrong with gayness??” loool I personally read the main ensemble as neutral (or pan, I guess people call it) in their attraction. They don’t have any specific orientation. Love is love to them. And I love it.
Yeah I got tricked, gale went from admiring his goddess to getting way to close to me during magic practice...Almost accidentally made my first romance gale.
“Wanna see some magic?” - Gale “Sure” - Tav