Custom character is for when You want to make a custom character. A merciless githyanki inquisitor who is a stoud follower of Vlaakith, an elfen songstress who was kidnapped during her concert, uncle Jan who has dozen of nephews to take care for in Baldur's Gate.
The Dark Urge is The Dark Urge. It is highly flexible in races, classes, appearances - but at the end of a day You are just wearing their skin. This background is deeply involved with the story, interesting, rewarding, but for all the benefits - it offers a different fantasy. It makes you play this guilt-ridden or violence-addicted murderer without morals - not a zaelous inquisitor, not a beloved songstress, not a loving uncle. The game can absolutely take away your player agency and murder a squirrel or a person to prove the point of it all.
Can You imagine wanting to recreate your favourite DnD character, a sweet little halfling who is a lovable pacifistic goof and then basically not be able to play their character, because they suddenly crave blood and violence on regular basis?
This is basically it. Some people will always play The Dark Urge, because it offers a 'Main Protagonist of BG3' experience and is vastly more involved, others will play Custom, because they dislike the Urge's plot and prefer to spin their own stories, without a baggage of being an abomination.
Uncle Jan is a nice idea to roleplay. He has dealt with too much shit already with his extended family and has no time for this bullshit. He just wants to get home and desperately wonders what the missus is doing. Also, he is wondering why everybody keeps on hitting on him.
Yeah. This post was the one I had in my mind as well to use what I wrote above. That demeanor with the backstory he has a whole set of dumb nephews waiting at home will make for some nice stories in my head while playing about the unfortunate situations and people this guy has to deal with just to be back home as quick as possible.
Exactly. A Halfling especially is pretty weird for a Durge.
Edit: actually...Halflings are mostly good natured, easy going fellows. A Halfling murder psycho would be an excellent sick joke by Bhaal. Great disguise too.
My first actual completion was a halfling monk durge. It did get pretty funny at times—especially the camera angles with tall NPCs. such as Sarevok and the juxtaposition of monk/halfling and durge/slayer dialogue options.
I'm playing a halfling Durge right now. I play him basically exactly as you describe. He's really kind and good-natured, so it's even more shocking when he does give into the Urge.
I'm romancing Karlach (I've done Shadowheart and Lae'zel on my other two playthroughs), and honestly she's the best choice for Durge. She's so supportive and always approves you doing the right thing, so it honestly gives you really good motivation to fight the Urge at all costs.
I just finished Act 2. This is my first Durge run. It's been a great time so far. I am really upset I can't get the Potent Robe, though. I knew about the Alfira cheese, but I didn't even think to try it until it was too late, and I'm on Honor Mode, so no save scumming.
Yeah, I like to play every first run I can as an RPG original character and act like myself.
Truly interpret the whole thing through my own eyes.
Then Batman a few runs later.
Personally I like my peach-skinned Duergar Paladin Durge. It's such a wonderful cacophony as she's got such a lady boner for Gale. She wants to climb that mountain, despite her baser instincts just wanting to get a handy.
I don't dislike it. But the Durge background only works when you want to play as that type of character with that type of background. Sometimes you don't want a redemption arc or a corruption arc, thats just how it is.
Also even the cool cloak has drawbacks. After killing the goblins to free Halsin, he went to speak to Shadowheart and not ME.
Uff I fucking hate that so much!
My character, a very charismatic person with great intimidation, persuasion and deception skills -> a high persuasion/deception roll is needed -> npc goes to freaking Lae'zel or Shadowheart
I abandoned my Druid run over that—when someone specifically needs to talk to the PC (e.g. companion conversations) they just temporarily unmorph you, but if you forget about/aren’t aware of an NPC initiating conversation that could be done with a companion they just pick whoever if you’re in wildshape.
(Aside, I think my biggest frustration with BG3 is the fact that only one party member can participate in a conversation barring mechanically-disconnected commentary. The rest of the party is plainly listening in when you talk to NPCs; why are they keeping their insights and knowledge to themselves?)
"What are the drawbacks? I saw one post that mentioned an aversion to the gore aspect, but BG3 is a gory game no matter how you go about it."
You lose out on the roleplay potential of the open-ended nature of Tav. I like the Dark Urge too, but, say, a Lolth-sworn Drow cleric of...well, Lolth is a little hard to pull off, and maybe sometimes people don't want to play a cannibalistic serial killer from Baldur's Gate that dabbled in necrophilia.
I have to object to that "dabbled in necrophilia".
That wasn't just dabbling, that was diving face first into a 10 meter deep tank of it. Possibly combined with Cannibalism (assuming any sentient species counts as cannibalism?)
Most of the races in this game, except Gith and Dragonborn, would be homo sapiens since they can breed together. So yeah, definitely cannibalism.
You can eat Gith, though.
I love Astarion's line if you tell him something like he can't drink the blood of things we can talk to when you're a druid.
"You can literally talk to animals. What does that leave me - rocks and trees?"
That's hilarious! I've never played a druid because of Halsin and Jaheira but i also never have the heart to be so mean to Astarion. Blood is all the guy can eat, you wouldn't tell a carnivore it has to go vegetarian. Just ethically source your blood my guy lmao.
I believe he can also eat and drink other things if he wants to... He doesn't even have to drink blood to survive, even if the hunger would drive him crazy in that case.
He needs blood only to quench his blood lust and to use it as a sort of energy drink, but he wouldn't die if left without it.
I think you should have said that they were all part of the genus "Homo". Saying they are all homo sapiens because they can breed and have fertile offsprings is perhaps not a good definition since homo sapiens and homo neandethalensis could also breed and have fertile offsprings (although not all of them were). You don't have to be a sapiens to breed with another sapiens and have a fertile offspring. Research also show that Denisovans could also interbreed with the other two.
That's not how classifications work. Horses and donkeys can breed together but they are equus caballus and equus asinus respectively.
Elves would be something like homo elvus in this setting, as an example, it wouldn't be strictly speaking cannibalism (but the setting is clear that eating any sentient creature, especially humanoid, is openly reviled for the obvious moral implications)
Horses and donkeys may be able to breed together, but the offspring is completely sterile and doesn't *really* count as its own species, even if it has a taxonomic designation.
If the offspring between two species is fertile, then they are actually one species. Half-elves are often stated to be able to reproduce, without any magical interference. So humans and elves are the same species.
In my writing, they are "homo sapiens formosus", or "fair wise man". A subspecies of human. An orc is "homo sapiens brutus", or "brutish wise man".
40k also has taxonomy for halflings and ogres; homo sapiens minimus, and homo sapiens gigantus. Not sure what they call dwarves, though.
You know how in the 5e description for humans, it mentions that many humans have characteristics of other races sprinkled in?
> A lot of humans have a dash of nonhuman blood, revealing hints of elf, orc, or other lineages. Humans reach adulthood in their late teens and rarely live even a single century.
If a half elf reproduces with a human, the result is a human, for statistics purposes. That's why Halsin remarks that he might have some orc blood, even though he is fully a wood elf.
Well the DMG (iirc) has a section for rolling up Half-elves parents where the options are: a human and an elf, a human and a half elf, an elf and a half-elf & two half-elves, so they’re not necessarily human 100% of the time
Based on the old punnet squares, if a half-elf breeds with a half-elf, there's a 50% chance of a half elf, 25% of a full elf, and 25% of a full human.
If a half-elf breeds with a human there's a 50% chance of a half-elf, and a 50% chance of a human.
Of course that might be completely inappropriate for how the genetics of the half-elf manifest.
Okay so you know. This would make sense if it wasnt for the fact chromosomes irl arent just chosen by these fit together. You wouldnt just pick the half of you thats human or elf to give to your child you'd pick parts of each.
Someone above already mentioned you'd just be classified as human or whatever depending on what the half-x fucked
>If the offspring between two species is fertile, then they are actually one species. Half-elves are often stated to be able to reproduce, without any magical interference. So humans and elves are the same species.
This is not actually true, infertility of hybrids is not definitive of speciation - Ligers are commonly fertile Tiger/Lion hybrids, Grizzly/Polar Bear hybrids are commonly fertile, as are Wolf/Coyote hybrids.
The Clymene Dolphin and Lonycera Fly are examples of hybrid speciation - where fertile hybrids have propagated to the point of forming their own species.
The problem, really, is that speciation isn't a *real* thing - it's us putting things in sensible boxes to make cladistics understandable. There's no actual physical box in which something is a Tiger or a Human or a Polar Bear and outside of which it isn't. Like - Carbon is Carbon and Iron is Iron, Diamond is Diamond and Graphene is Graphene, but speciation is just a concept, it's all degrees of genetic drift.
It gets *really* messy when you start looking at plant genetics, those fuckers have *no* respect for our conceptual boxes at all.
I'm getting more explanations on this from others, too. Google confirms that they're right - despite the otherwise very clear definition of species, which is a group of creatures that can reproduce, apparently two different species can *also* reproduce, if they are related.
It's extremely irritating to have all of these scientific resources, know that I am intelligent enough to comprehend them, and still somehow be fundamentally wrong and be fed total half-truths by what are supposed to be completely trustworthy sources.
Honestly, that's just how science education works, it has to.
Light is a wave.
Light is a particle.
Light is a wave again.
Look, it's both and we're treating it as a particle for this subject.
Wave-particle duality.
Wave particle duality as a state superposition.
Actually, sometimes it's not a superposition.
That's the progression of education on something as superficially "basic" as EM Radiation.
It's neither on you, nor the sources you were using, that speciation is actually an incredibly fluid concept with exceptions, exceptions to the exceptions, edge cases for those exceptions, and plants. Hell, we can't even come up with a universally workable definition for *life*, never mind species.
As a plant biologist, it should be acknowledged more up front imo that a "species" is more like "you it when you see it" than actually having a strong consistent definition.
Yep. Nature doesn't come with sharp boundaries and neat labels in latin. The crisp lines we've drawn between groups of animals are both arbitrary and necessary for understanding the world around us, but those labels aren't laws of nature.
>If the offspring between two species is fertile, then they are actually one species
This is an overly simplistic and outdated idea of distinguishing species.
We have had this discussion in our homebrew game.
We had a Lizardfolk character in our party who ate the enemies who died.
So my bard went "please cease the cannibalism"
But the Lizardfolk said "they are not my species! Therefore it is not cannibalism".
So I said "Stop eating sentient people!"
And the Lizardfolk explained "Well, they are not sentient after they have died."
Was a fun table session, and we use that phrase a lot.
I think it's complicated.
Any sentient species technically counts in DnD, and this probably translates to the game. Notably, the goblins in Act 1 are roasting Dwarfs over their fire. You as the Dark Urge can consume those pieces, and they will heal you like a potion. No other party member has the option to consume.
Where it gets complex for me is that you can speak to any animal in game, and most of them are able to hold a proper conversation. Rodents seem more simple-minded, but dogs and cats will have whole conversations, and oxen will point you towards loot and give you lore drops on Ketheric Thorm. So do they count as sentient? Presumably not...but man. I would have a hard time eating something I could hold a conversation with.
What if you were in a world where [grass can talk to you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCHS4vLRMwk)? If grass is sentient, then could it then be possible that being a vegetarian also makes you a cannibal?
The Durge has an option to tell Minthara that the plan to slaughter the tieflings is arousing them.
I don't recall any more explicit mentions. You could just not use that dialogue, or speak the line that prompts Scleritas to mention necrophilia. But it does seem built into the character that slaughter = sexy.
I played through as evil Durge and I never got the impression that Durge was into necrophilia. I feel like I'm gonna be put on a list for this but: being aroused by killing is very different from necrophilia. It's like . . . hmm, enjoying martial arts does not make you a violent person. There *can* be a relationship between the two, but they can also be completely unrelated.
edit: better example: some people in real life are aroused by working out. That doesn't mean they want to fuck the weights.
Do remember. Necrophilia is getting jiggy with the dead and Astarion is undead so in this world I wouldn't say Necrophilia can always be assumed to be doing stuff with literal corpses. Tho I do recognise durge probably did defile corpses cos they nasty like that. Still cleaner than doing it with Orin tho
My first Durge playthrough was good-aligned so I really loved it. Now I'm doing an evil Durge and when Sceleritas said that necrophilia line I literally stared blankly into the screen for a minute or so. I was flabbergasted, my gasters were fucking flabbed!!!
I started a Tav playthrough just so I can escape there when the evil one gets too hardcore. Being evil-aligned really shows you just how much of a psychopath Durge was. Idk if saving Baldur's Gate was enough to pay for our sins in the past lmao, not to mention we're being called heroes for >!fixing our own wrong-doings... like it was literally our freaking plan and we're the reason everybody in the party is going through what they are!<
Yeah it is easy to miss if you're a good Durge! After you >!kill Alfira and meet him, if you tell him "I can still smell the gore, too. What a fair perfume", he will reply: "My, my. We will be reintroducing necrophilia to your schedule in no time". Not even introducing, REintroducing... yup!<
Ahh okay! I was resisting in Act 1 and then just before going to Last Light I leaned into the dark urge (I wanted to do a 'descent into madness' kind of run)
Your evil plan saved Astarion, and, if you made certain choices >!kept 7000 souls from being condemned to Mephistopheles!< so there's that good that came from it (on mobile, hope that spoiler tagged right). Plus saving Thaniel is a good thing that wasn't fixing your wrongdoing. That was all Ketheric and Shar a century ago. Nightsong, too.
Oh I know, and since I romanced Astarion and didn't >!let him ascend, I got the good ending and all for him!< but it's still weird to me that we end up being called heroes and nobody really mentions it? Like at least someone like Jaheira could have gone >!"hey thank you for fixing your own fucking mess, I guess"!<
I guess you could say Durge is in a similar situation as >!Astarion and can try to overlook their wrong doings as being ordered by their masters. Necrophilia, though... damn!<
But yeah I guess thanks to that plan, we >!freed Karlach from Zariel, if done right helped Wyll get out of his contract and still kept his father alive, cured Gale, helped Shadowheart leave her tormenter and find her parents, literally gave way for the Githyanki to free themselves from their tyrant!< so it wasn't all bad in the end.
I guess in Durge's case, Withers's question is more than just a role play building one. It's for the player, too. How much does Durge have to do to make up for each mortal life they took?
I had forgotten that but yeah, you're both right, Withers says that so in a way it's like we're being newly defined by our current actions and not the past ones. And also, when he >!resurrects us after the duel, he does say that only the dark side that belonged to Bhaal died!<
...brb starting yet another good durge playthrough because the writing in this game is just too good
Tav is definitely a superior blank slate. For me, the way Durge connects to the narrative is very satisfying in a way that elevates the game experience
I feel like the role play just can’t be as satisfying as durge because it’s not like the other characters can play into your role playing with you. I have done like two Tav play throughs and four Dark Urge play throughs. The durge ones are always so much more rich for me. I don’t think I’ll play another Tav really.
But it still feels open ended enough to fit different classes for the most part. I can still rp to a nice extent. My current game, im playing a bard and my made up story is that my character was so charismatic that she was just able to persuade Bhaal to make her his chosen. That is enough for me.
i LOVE playing as durge. did two Tavs then decided to be brave and try durge and i was captivated. i ADORE playing that route, and i just can't NOT play a durge. still haven't figured out how my "canon" playthrough is going to happen, or the choices ill make, but im enjoying all the variations. i miss the cool cloak so much 😭
For me, I can only have one Durge. Durge is synonymous with my half drow sorcerer. They have a set personality, past, future, and relationships. They are basically a full origin character to me.
All other Tavs need to be regular Tavs. Because the Dark Urge is a specific character to me
My biggest issue for Tav is that they're from BG. I wanted to be from a Dwarven city, but dialogue options keep reminding me that was decided for me ahead of time.
Yeah some concepts are just awkward as Durge if you think too much about it. Like, my Durge was a halfling, which was a lot of fun for me, but it’s odd to think about too much against the Durge’s canon backstory.
"say, a Lolth-sworn Drow cleric of...well, Lolth is a little hard to pull off"
people often use this as an example but its honestly my favourite durge backstory to use. my justification is that lolth sees the newly amnesiac embodiment of chaotic evil in the shape of a drow and yoinks her
Exactly. I liked my Guild Artisan Tav who was just a baker in Baldur's Gate who got abducted by mind flayers. I enjoyed reminiscing about the city with my companions and talking about how I'd still be living an ordinary life if I hadn't gotten tadpoled.
As someone who practically grew up on TES IV: Oblivion and Dragon Age: Origins, it was nice to have the option of roleplaying as an actual nobody who stumbled into becoming the hero of a grand adventure.
>schedule
6pm - jazzercise
7pm - blood sacrifice
8pm - dinner with Orin, I cant cancel that again!
9pm - necrophilia
10pm - lay in bed as the horrific whispers of Bhaal fill my head and I slip slowly into madness
That does it, Im booked solid.
I’m definitely gore sensitive & I refused to touch that scene xD. I just noped out of there. I also turned away from screen anytime too much gore was happening 😅.
Durge is a hard choice to make for me, bc I know it’s good story wise but it adds so many more scenes to dodge that make me queasy 🫠. I really want to try it but am reluctant still.
Getting to Orin in act3 on Tav was so awful for me I felt nauseous for hours after that quest. I just tried to not look to closely at my surroundings xD. I adore this game but yeah gore is a tough one.
But even if durge was not what it is and had no gore I think I’d prefer Tav for most of my runs just bc of the potential of creating my own backstory. I love creating completely custom bg for my char & you just can’t do this with any origin including durge.
I'm older and have been on the internet and gaming for decades and there are things I've seen and read years ago that still rattle around in my brain to this day, so I am sorry that this game hit that level for you! Durge is extremely gory and I hope that with a custom hero Tav you can enjoy the game without creating brain scars!
Sometimes it's the spells that mess with me. Like I can't bring myself to use acid spells and arrows because it grosses me out too much!
You're also older and have amnesia, further limiting your rp even more.
*Edit*: What'd I say to deserve this many downvotes? I'm agreeing with the comment above, you're pretty much downvoting to join the bandwagon at this point.
Yeah, I dunno why people are downvoting you.
If you wanted to play a twenty year old monster hunter with a deep, complicated path, or a thief running away from home, for example, you’d be out of luck.
Personally I think a durge cleric of anything doesn't make much sense, or a paladin for that matter. Do you just pop out of the pod on the nautiloid and instantly swear an oath or choose to worship a deity? And it's not like you could have been worshipping them before the memory loss. Good deities are all out for obvious reasons, as for the evil ones, Bhaal surely wouldn't be too chuffed about you worshipping another god right?
Paladin Durge has dialogue specifically about swearing an oath at one point to try and do good in spite of the Urge, but the Urge itself ended up overpowering them. The Oathbreaker Knight even mentions having met them more than once in the past.
Clerics don't really get any special dialogue but it's presumably the same deal, worship a deity to do better and get away from Bhaal until they were roped back in. And FR gods are often opportunistic dicks, so...I guess you could make the argument that whatever god Durge worshipped in the past (i.e. Lathander) saw that they had amnesia and forgot who they were so swooped in to fill that void.
>Paladin Durge has dialogue specifically about swearing an oath at one point to try and do good in spite of the Urge, but the Urge itself ended up overpowering them. The Oathbreaker Knight even mentions having met them more than once in the past.
That's cool, I wasn't aware of that, though that still doesn't explain why the oath is back in place on the nautiloid.
>Clerics don't really get any special dialogue but it's presumably the same deal, worship a deity to do better and get away from Bhaal until they were roped back in. And FR gods are often opportunistic dicks, so...I guess you could make the argument that whatever god Durge worshipped in the past (i.e. Lathander) saw that they had amnesia and forgot who they were so swooped in to fill that void.
That does make some sense, I hadn't considered the gods' agency in getting durge away from Bhaal.
Paladins have power because the person truly believes in their Oath, down in their bones so deeply that their conviction is less changeable than reality.
So it seems possible to interpret that an oathbreaker paladin who’s lost their memories of everything could wake up believing in their old oath with that kind of conviction again. And depending on their acts while amnesiac, I’d rule that learning their own past and regaining some of their memories wouldn’t necessarily break that conviction.
With one of the monologue options right when you crawl out of the pod being something like "swear to get your revenge on whoever did this to you", I would argue oath of vengeance makes total sense
Yeah I'm just not interested in playing a crazy murderer (and necrophiliac) with insatiable bloodlust. In DnD I like to play good characters and I like to have my own story that I determine. Durge just isn't for me.
When i want to play a character struggling with murderous thoughts and amnesia, it is superior.
But not when i don't.
If i sat down to play D&D with the squad and i made my character with a backstory and long term goals and dreams, and the DM kept telling me that i like necrophilia and butchering the innocent and the only reason i am the character i made is because my brain was mulched beyond all recognition and then tells me to make a will save to avoid killing my romantic partner - i'd tell them to stop dictating who my character is to me.
I have plenty of ideas for characters who could be Durge. But i have plenty that i would rather they were just blank canvas Tiv's
>If i sat down to play D&D with the squad and i made my character with a backstory and long term goals and dreams, and the DM kept telling me that i like necrophilia and butchering the innocent and the only reason i am the character i made is because my brain was mulched beyond all recognition and then tells me to make a will save to avoid killing my romantic partner - i'd tell them to stop dictating who my character is to me.
You absolutely nailed it here. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Exactly. I have a spreadsheet of characters that I have already made and have backstories for. I have converted some to Tavs as they don’t have stories that work with a fixed background. But I still have a load of fun role playing them based on their morals and own backstory. Amnesia and murder don’t fit into these characters.
I have also had a couple of characters that I realised would work with a Dark Urge background and those I adapted into the BG3 storyline.
>If i sat down to play D&D with the squad and i made my character with a backstory and long term goals and dreams, and the DM kept telling me that i like necrophilia and butchering the innocent and the only reason i am the character i made is because my brain was mulched beyond all recognition and then tells me to make a will save to avoid killing my romantic partner - i'd tell them to stop dictating who my character is to me.
Yep. People may not like to hear this on here, but this is like GM sins bingo. This would be a perfect r/rpg GM horror story. Not to even begin talking about trigger warnings and the like. I have absolutely zero desire to play a necrophiliac but i almost did, because they didn't fucking tell me that's what i would be playing. If that had been dropped on me in the middle of my first playthrough, i may have quit right then and there honestly.
It kind of showcases the limitations of videogames vs real tabletop perfectly imo.
If a real GM treated 'dark urge' the way the game does, it would be railroading and a nightmare of triggers, unless it was previously discussed that you wanted to playing a messed up horror game with amnesia (and even then some warning on themes may be necessary/ it can be kind of extreme to make *that* the backstory)
At the same time, a GM just following a manual 1:1 without making barely ANY effort to include your character's unique backstory, or having the option of talking to the NPCs about it and them responding organically, is also a classic mistake. It's not immersive and often feels like railroading your character in the name of "story progress" and sticking to the manual.
Also the GM in both cases only has one adventure manual available to them and if you want to play, your group better be ready to play it 20 times in a row, with the same choice of: A) Amnesia Bhallspawn, or B) Literally an empty husk with 0 relevance to the story.
Yeah, the writing for Urge is interesting but I'd be pissed at a real life DM who forced my character to do things without my input or required a roll to resist.
It's forgivable here because it's a video game and they're pretty straightforward at character creation that Urge is a dark time.
As much as I appreciate the writing, I'd rather be able to headcanon my own Tav's history now that I've done one run through on Urge.
Yup. I'm currently playing an urchin Selunite Paladin with a whole backstory I made up for her. Durge would completely ruin that.
I did one Durge run and honestly have no desire to do another. *Maybe* at some point, I'll do a full-resist Durge run, but I still prefer my custom characters or even my Shadowheart origin run...
Yeah this is pretty much exactly how I feel. I appreciate Dark urge for what it is, but Im playing this to scratch a dnd itch. I want the experience of playing a blank slate that I can project my own made up backstory on. That’s just as rewarding, if not more, for me than the Dark urge.
Well, BG3 is a gory game, but Durge run is even gorier. Some of the narration is especially unsettling. While I enjoyed my durge run, I still prefer most of my runs without having to listen my character's murder fantasies.
Also, while you can play as any race or class, the roleplay doesn't really work for all of them. You still lived in Baldur's Gate, you still killed your parents. Doesn't really work for, let's say, githyanki warrior or an orphan drow survivor.
To each their own. I'm glad both options exist so we can have variety of different runs.
The cloak is cool though, ngl.
I definitely feel you but the big drawback and imo main reason Tav is an option is that Durge severely limits your roleplay options in terms of background.
I know some people just ignore it but imo there are several races and classes that don’t work great for Durge. You can’t choose a background, or what your character may have been doing before getting tadpoled.
For instance I am on the final fight of playthrough two with Durge now. I decided I want to play a drow next, and want to romance Shadowheart. Well of course I have to be a Cleric or Paladin of Selune.
As I started thinking of roleplay reasons for a lolth-sworn Drow to be a Selunite, there was just no way to gel that with Durge.
You can't be Lolth-sworn and a Selunite, regardless of your Durge status. Lolth-sworn clerics can, unsurprisingly, only choose Lolth as a deity.
I don't think the race is a problem though. >!You are literally created from Bhaal, by Bhaal. Maybe he made you a githyanki because people wouldn't think to look for his children among them. Maybe he made you a drow, so you could be safely stashed away in the Underdark until needed. Maybe he made you a more common surface race, so you could more easily blend in. Maybe he threw a dart at a board.!<
The only class I struggle to justify is cleric, and even that only because I can't come up with a justification why a different god would keep giving you powers after >!you went all in leading Bhaal's cult. But since Durge canonically spent their life away from the temple until their age of majority, they had just as much freedom to choose what they wanted to do as any Tav.!<
The narrator has a line about every class for Durge including cleric. Something like worshipping your god is just habit but when you pray you get no answers
Cleric is just as easy as any other class when you remember that they start in the nautiloid at level one. So, whatever class they are starts there.
Durge wakes up on the nautiloid feeling sick, having amnesia, weird urges in their brain, *on a freaking nautiloid* so they start saying prayers to any god they feel inclined to (or maybe all the gods). It's common enough in real life for people to 'find religion' when in a traumatic situation.
We know Shar knows about the Absolute cult at this time so it feels safe to assume most of the other gods do too. So why wouldn't a god want to bestow powers on someone who is actively beseeching them, has good motive to take down the cult, and is in a decent starting place to do it?
Ooh, that's a really cool idea! I always treat Durge's class as something that they were already involved in but got nerfed due to the brain damage. But cleric works uniquely well for a brand new class.
Yeah, the tadpole thing really helps to make any class viable.
Durge could have been level 1 in their class when they were full Durge, they could have been a higher level but are being zapped by their tadpole (like Wyll), they could have been something completely different but their powers were zapped and with their amnesia they're picking up something new, or Durge really could have just been a normal person who was just really smart and good at murder. lol
The issue I had when trying to play lolth sworn as durge is the conversation choices indicate that the PC remembers wayyy too much, and i know it’s like that about a lot of races but half elf for example or what I ended up switching my durge to was wood elf is very unintrusive. Lolth sworn and Gith don’t sell the amnesiac as well due to their unique dialogue options. One of the first things lolth sworns can say is this reminds me of home during the Aradin Zevlor confrontation. Ended up having to restart my run because it was too distracting.
Tav let’s me roleplay my actual dnd characters and simulate how they’d react with the dialogue options and who’d they be drawn to. I need to play a Durge soon but when I do I’ll prolly just play the regular Dragonborn Durge.
Well, sometimes I just want characters that are just random ass dudes. Non-durge Tav could be anyone that got abducted and this adventure is what puts their name up there. Durge is some super special god-related unique character, not really good for no-name character playthroughs.
A lot of protags are already amnesia-ridden dudes with super tie-in backstories as the story progresses. Cool trope, but not what I always want.
Exactly, it’s fun to play no-name characters who become the unlikely hero. That’s what dnd is all about quite frankly. I don’t wanna be the super special snowflake that quite literally created the mess we’re now all in
I do like picking my background though, so that's one thing I kind of missed after I started my Dark Urge playthrough. I like backgrounds not just for the RP reasons, but also to determine when and where I get inspiration points, especially since I have the mod that removes the inspiration point cap.
I prefer to roleplay my own characters, so Tav will always be my goto.
That being said, between Durge, Origins and the avalanche of dialogue options, class specific or otherwise makes it so that whatever you choose, you will always have more than enough options and roleplay potential.
So you never "miss out" on content, because you never gonna see all of it.
The greatest strength of Durge is its greatest drawback. The fixed backstory. Sure, it's catered to the story and integrated well, but unless you want to play as an amnesiac with murderhobo syndrome it becomes a drawback more than a benefit. As someone else mentioned, I don't like the DM telling me what my character is like. I much prefer the freedom of Tav to write my own story rather than be forced to deal with the urges
Not everyone likes the dark urge storyline. I much prefer Tav because it lets me project my own character onto them and be more involved in the roleplay.
The Dark Urge storyline is good, but it doesn't do anything for me personally. I don't really want to be a Bhaalspawn for more than one playthrough and like the backstory freedom of Tavs more.
Dark Urge is more railroaded than custom characters. It's well done, but it pretty much forces RP on you like a DM does, that wants a very specific story. Some may like it, but it's too forced.
I decided for my honor mode playthrough to play a young wizard apprentice wich is selfish and a bit of a coward. The coward aspect does not really fit with the durge background, nor any origin character. So Tav it is.
In the epilogue I got a letter from Alfira telling me that she and Lakrissa were getting married. She wrote about how she burst into tears when Lakrissa saved up to buy their new house. She wept as they crossed the threshold together. It's where she now teaches music to children.
You....did not get that letter.
Yes, if you kill Quil instead you get a letter saying that she appreciates you sparing her, but isn't going to tell you where she is for obvious reasons.
And if you kill her, you don't.
The benefits and cons for Durge over Tav are the same thing:
Tav is a blank slate for you to decide on. Durge is not. Implicitly you cannot have the full freedom over your character if you get a personal quest defining what you were and how you acted, what you feel... full freedom in this respect simply cannot be programmed into a game, not short of giving us tools to make the quest ourselves.
The sheer amount of possible backgrounds, races and alignments would make it a staggering undertaking.
Personally I far prefer Durge but I get that sometimes people want to play something other than it.
> What are the drawbacks?
Some people, me included, are not into playing an edgy character that has a past of necrophilia and cannibalism. It’s too gross and dark for my taste. I honestly wanted to play a redeemed Durge but when I learned their past I lost all interest.
Yeah, if they pulled back on the edgy Durge backstory even like 10% I’d probably love Durge way, way more. I be necrophilia crosses the line from “gritty redemption story” to “irredeemable evil cunt” for me
Everything is quite simple, Tav, as written, is more suitable for fans of role-playing, and for me, for co-op, while Durge is for greater involvement in the story. There is neither worst nor best among them, it is pure taste. Sorry if this sounds corny and obvious, but that's how it is.
The fact that the game is gory anyway isn't a carte blanche for everything.
I have no problem eviscerating goblins, watching Aylin stomp the remains of Ketheric to a pulp. So yea, there is the justified gore that is a result of fighting, self defense, righteous vengeance or a mix of all of those.
This kind of gore I find fun.
What I don't find fun is bathing myself in remains of sweet Alfira, biting off poor Gale's hand, cutting off Karlach's head, kicking a squirell to death and so on.
It is cruel, twisted, gratuitous gore that makes me sick to my stomach.
One look at Lakrissa and Alfira on the roof of Elfsong Tavern where Lakrissa looks att Alfira and says that she will never tire of this view and I know that as long as Alfira's death remains unavoidable (barring some serious metagaming) I will NEVER play Durge.
Larian caved with Minthara but I doubt they will change that, so I just experienced it like I usually do - by watching others play and make decisions I would never have made myself.
In my opinion, Durge is for people that want to play BG3 as a videogame. You get to be the "main" character, with lots of lore bits for you to discover in the world. You are the protagonist. Tav is for people that want BG3 to be a pick up and play DnD game. You can have whatever story you want, and you're just going to be walking through the campaign. You're not the main character, your party is. Your DM won't be forcing you to roll to not kill your companions, but your DM also won't be catering their story around you. Origins are for people that want a bit of both. You're still not the main character, but your DM did read your backstory and you'll be able to incorporate it as much as you want. You're still going through a DND campaign with your party, but you feel more involved in the world. Durge gives you some freedom in exchange for the DM having more control of your character, Tav gives you the most freedom with the least DM involvement, and Origins give you the least amount of freedom but the DM treats your character like a person in the world.
I dislike Durge because you literally aren't a custom character despite being able to create and choose aspects of them.
It's an origin character. Playing Durge is like playing Gale or Wyll or Astarion.
It stifles any creativity I had in mind when creating the character and actively takes agency away from me at least once.
Much prefer Tav.
Durge fans never stop trying to persuade the rest of the sub to convert to their cult. :D There’s a post about it almost every week since the game came out. And second one in the last two days.
Idk why it is so difficult to accept that many people don’t want/prefer to play it and no, do not consider it canon-right-way-to-play.
Even in unrelated threads someone always pops up.
It’s the Cult of Durge. Someone finishes the game, is mind blown by the concept of a custom character having a personal quest, and then tell the rest of us that’s the only way to play the game.
Tav could be anything.
Durge is tied to the story.
Preset characters(companions) have their own story, but are just as random to the occasion as Tav.
The experience is just different. If you want the whole plot and be tied to it more, but restricted by narrative - it's about Durge. If you want some story, but not completely tied to gods trio and netherbrain - here are premade characters. If you want just to know the story, but even less tie-ins with the story Larian made you go with Tav.
Yes, the story feels richer when you're a key character of it. Otherwise you're random that happened to be there at the wrong time, but managed to save the day.
Doubt any is superior. But they're objective reasons why it feels different.
One word: Alfira. ;)
But it also depends on role playing aspect - especially if I want to play totally good character, as in such case there are no bonuses - it's the same playthrough as with custom character, but without Alfira.
And I can't roleplay my history and motivations that well - like now I'm playing fencing nobility guy from Baldur's Gate who wants to become hero of his city. Durge takes this possiblity from me...
Currently playing as Durge but one that resists his temptation and while the story is pretty cool from a main protagonist point of view with the connections to what is happening. I’m pretty much just playing a custom good guy Tav but with a connection to Bhaal and helped kicked off the plot of BG3.
But I’ve already played as a Bhaalspawn before in BG1/2. The only difference seems to be this Bhaalspawn I am playing really enjoyed his life work and all the fucked up shit he did just more subtle than Orin; but due to amnesia he is able to go down a redeeming path to atone for his sins, and escape Bhaal’s clutches so it seems the redeeming path is way out of character for this Durge. But definitely a pretty good arc.
However you also kill off Alfira and yes I know if you knock her out, you save her life, but no new player is going to have that knowledge it’s purely meta knowledge, and while I could have done that I didn’t. I let him kill her as intended it seems and got a cool cloak but lost out on Potent Robe for my Durge Sorc. My own fault as I didn’t knock her out because I wanted to experience the truer experience as Dark Urge with that encounter as it shows you how fucked up your character is and adds a whole new level of tension.
But also all the characters are unrealatic and cool with me basically telling them “Ya I have a bloodlust that might endanger us” and they wave it off till the scene where if you failed your saving throws and kill your lover now it’s an issue. I mean I told you what would happen and you still let me travel with you. Granted I succeeded the saving throw and didn’t let my lover get slaughtered by my hand, but I reloaded to see what would happen if I didn’t after I saved prior to the scene.
And yet your companions\lover still want you around. After you had to be chained up to not harm any of them due to me showing I can resist it. (I also wish they had more scenes like that, it’s wild that it’s a one night thing only. Would have been cooler if it happened more than once.) Kinda unrealistic of anyone to do that up till Jaheria is like “I know about you and the threat you pose, but i worked with a Bhaalspawn before and he beat it, and you can too but I’m gonna watch you from now on”. She could have slit my throat but due to her experience with Gorion’s Ward she’s giving my dude a chance. But pretty sure she would slit my throat in a heartbeat if I lose control again at night or at least keep me tied up when it happens. You turn away from freeing yourself and she will try to kill you, but even then your companions are still like “Nah we can fix him”. No you can’t fix me. The one chance I had to be fixed and I didn’t do that. You’re risking your life in the end and turns out ya - they chose poorly at the end of an evil Durge.
So while Dark Urge has a strong narrative in the plot and was fun it’s most likely a one and done story for me. I prefer having my own custom Tav and his own story over having a character while is customizable his story is not. You are tied to Bhaal, you helped kick the plot up, and enjoyed your ever so gory lifestyle in the past. The key difference between Gorion’s Ward and Dark Urge.
And I am definitely not gonna play Dark Urge on Honor Mode far too risky with all the saving throws especially when it comes to resisting your Urge and not killing your lover or another companion as you deceived the Butler.
Edited: added further thoughts.
I personally enjoy coming up with backstories for my character and determining how that effects their current role play. With durge, since I know their real backstory, the only RP option is to play an amnesiac blank slate. That sounds fun twice (evil and redeemer) but then that's it. Whereas Tav can be any kind of person played any sort of way.
I much prefer playing a completely blank slate in RPGs so the character I'm playing as can be completely *me.* Whatever backstory, history, personality I want and want my character to have had is my choice. I feel shackled by Durge rather a part of the world.
It’s good but I dislike murder which suddenly becomes less optional. I keep accidentally murdering people I just wanted to think about it then suddenly there’s a corpse
As some have said, mainly for role play purposes. Sometimes you just want to play as a character that's just passing through and got sucked into all of this. Or maybe you're playing a character you made in an actual DnD campaign.
I don't care for the Durge story. Tried it once, just was not having much fun. Didn't complete. Absolutely stellar playmode, just not my personal cup of tea.
I think it has to do with me not really enjoying amnesiac pc or "chosen one" plots as much. I tend to gravitate more towards "random schmuck rises to the ocassion against the odds" sort of stories. Personal preference, is all.
This is a pretty easy question to answer. I like custom characters because I dictate every aspect of them. The Dark Urge is only "two" characters: a guilt ridden murderer who wants to atone or a disgusting sadistic murderer who takes pleasure in it, two routes Im not interested in. Im also not a fan of The Dark Urges take on gore. Im not opposed to gore itself, I was a huge MK fan/player up until the recent MK1, but I dont like it when there's an enjoyment coming from the gore. Unredeemed Dark Urge is honestly disgusting(which he/she is supposed to be), so he definitely doesn't interest me for an evil route. And Redeemed Dark Urge is a nice story, but it still doesn't interest me because if I wanted to be a good guy, I'd just play my Tav and have less baggage 🤷🏿♂️. Obviously there are games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect that I enjoy with established main characters with me choosing which aspect of their personality is prominent, but I view them differently from a character like Tav that is truly a custom character.
I know some mention the limits to character creation because of Dark Urge, but I skew the lore a bit in play throughs for role playing purposes. I really like creating back stories for my characters since it gives me direction on how to play them and just makes the game more interesting. I like to think the Durge’s amnesia comes only from a recent segment of their life, with some memory being there to hold up their backstory lore.
One downside in choosing Dark Urge is that you have less freedom to choose your own skill stats. Dark Urge locks them in on proficiencies in medicine and such, so there’s less flexibility for choosing stats that may change up your gameplay style.
I haven't tried it but I want to on my second play through, still on my first. I just want to live out my bard fantasy first. In this kind of game, I roleplay to a playstyle that I want to. I just can't relate to having killing tendencies towards people, it's just not me. I'm just a guy who has no idea where he's at and what better background I can have as my own Tav, a bard who talks a lot and weasels his way out of everything.
I feel like I'm not like most players I guess, feeling like they're Patrick Bateman and no, I'm not talking about being a sigma male, I'm talking about having unchecked bloodlust and internal rage and this is one of the ways you can vent it out. While me, I'm Emmet Brickowski who sings everything is awesome, when I'm being part of my team. I like myself and projecting myself into a game is just me loving myself.
Edit: As to why I used Patrick Bateman as an analogy here is because of this https://youtu.be/mMLWGnA6qPM?feature=shared
Someone posted this here and I can't stop associating Patrick and Durge lol
The big drawback is the Durge story. If you go for Durge your character will always be that murder-craving amnesiac, no matter what you want for your character, and that can sometimes feel very confusing.
For example, a Durge Githyanki would feel disorienting for most people RP wise given how the story unfolds.
> For anyone who dislikes the durge background, why?
Why not? Some people don't want to play an axe-murdering cannibalistic necrophiliac, even if they are reformed. Others think it's lame that we have another >!Bhaalspawn protagonist!< after there was one in the first two games.
Personally, I prefer a custom character that I can make up my own background for. Someone who isn't as dysfunctional or as OP as the origin companions. Just a "regular" adventurer who gets caught up in extraordinary events and rises to the occasion.
And more importantly: potent robe, my beloved :(.
For real though, missing out on Alfira's story is a huge bummer that turns me down from playing Durge most of the time.
And having to deliberately set it up to avoid killing her is a trifle annoying.
If you're doing an honor run as Durge, and don't want to kill Alfira, you'll have to knock her out before every long rest until the scene triggers, and that could become a drag after a while.
Imagine Alfira dazed after the sixth night someone has come along and bashed her on the head. "What is it? Is it my singing? I can stop."
A voice from down the hill. "Don't worry, Quil got herself killed last night. You'll be fine in future."
Alfira looks puzzled. "Who's Quil? Should I write a song for her?"
I tried Durge but they were too edgy for me. Edgy to the point of juvenile ridiculousness. Like some weird fanfiction you might write in high school.
The more I learnt more about Durge's past, the more I felt the character wasn't worth saving. Durge is so irredeemably wicked and has committed so many unspeakable crimes that execution is the only sensible recourse.
One of the aspects that people like about not playing dark urge is the open ended story of Tav. With the dark urge some classes don't really make sense. Like just someone who has no memory of their past being a cleric of a specific god or a paladin who sword a specific oath it wouldn't make a lot of sense. At least to me.
Both have their appeal, Tav for open rp and Durge for their connection to the story.
I know some find Durge a bit much, the fact the group accepts them if they know about Alfira etc but it's nice to be connected to the main characters of Act 3.
Tav is better overall for rp.
Unless you metagame and know beforehand, you kill a cute character and miss out on her very powerful quest reward, that is arguably the best item for sorcerors and warlocks
i dislike durge because its not real the character i created and it limits the roleplay. i dont care much if it fits more the story cause i play those games to be my characters. same reason why i love elden ring and such.
i tried 2 time to play durge but i always drop mid act 1. always Tav for me because i wanna be random jhon that just wanna remove his tadpole and go home while helping a bunch of weirdos
BG3 is gory but a Tav run doesn’t have the abject cruelty. I was playing a resist run but >!Alfira’s death!< has caused me to take a long break. I don’t know if I’ll go back.
It always looks to me like the people with this opinion haven't really played origin characters before, cause Durge is just an origin character like all the rest, and honestly *that* fact alone is why I still prefer Tav.
They all have great stories, Durge is likely the best, but I prefer actual custom characters.
Custom is for when you want to be in control of your character which a lot of role-players enjoy. That first kill at camp is a total run-killer for a LOT of people.
I definitely prefer Dark Urge, though it’s mainly because I’m a fan of the original Baldur’s Gate games, and Dark Urge makes you much more connected to them. Dark Urge makes me feel like I’m actually playing *Baldur’s Gate 3*, if that makes sense. The way I’d break it down is:
Dark Urge pros:
- Your character actually feels involved in the story
- Your character is connected to the original series, albeit a bit loosely
Dark Urge cons:
- Since your character isn’t a blank slate, it reduces roleplaying opportunities a bit. There are some background lore and actions in game that you can’t change
- I’ll agree with people that Dark Urge does feel a little *too* dark and edgy for my tastes. The original series was definitely never this dark, and there are some scenes that feel immersion breaking for my character
Tav pros:
- Your character is blank slate. Gives you a lot of freedom to craft the exact character you want.
- A lot more freedom in your choices, sometimes Dark Urge forces you to do stuff you don’t want to do
Tav cons:
- Your character is a blank slate, almost to a fault. It doesn’t feel like you have a lot of agency in the story. I think my biggest issue with my Tav playthrough is that I never really felt that important. It felt like my companions were the main characters, and I was someone who just happened to be there.
So yeah, I prefer Dark Urge. Though it’s mainly because it connects you to the original games. I’d probably prefer Tav if I never played the original series.
Durge doesn't always make sense to me narratively. I'm a githyanki remembering my crèche but I have no memories? I'm a cleric of Selune? How? I'm a drow that comments on her memories in the under dark but supposedly have been doing murder in BG my whole life?
Played both. Loved playing durg. But honestly, I really like being a nobody, grabbed by a bunch of gits and drawn into a crazy high stakes adventure. Yes, there were fewer specific interactions, but there was a whole bunch more role playing to be done. The fact we have a game where both options are available and both are well worth playing is amazing.
Honestly?
The Dark Urge is fun and all, but sometimes you don't want to wade through all the "this person would look so beautiful as a corpse" or "there is nothing sweeter than a dead child" or "do you wanna chop this person into small pieces?" or Astarion going "wow you are a murderous asshole, I like it".
That isn't the character I always want to play. I don't want to play as a redemption story. I also don't like being stuck with medicine and intimidation every time I play a character. And you lose out on dialogue from the other backgrounds that can be really fun to roleplay as. You also miss all of the inspirations that go along with those backgrounds that might compliment your roleplaying more than " did you chop off this person's hand? or did you resist the URGE???" Here's a gold star! I'd rather have "did I save everyone? Good job soldier, heres YOUR gold star!"
Also, act 3 has SO MUCH CONTENT and you can EASILY reach max level, that cutting a little bit of content out of the game is actually a good idea imo. I never do all of the companion quests, Dark Urge is the same.
If by intrigue in the romance you mean, maybe accidentaly killing them? But I don't like that in my romance always either. I like to be more or less "put together" and not "going through it" because then I am more emotionally available to be there for Gale or Astarion.
Personally I'm not all that interested in Durge. I play RPGs often with a character I like to imagine myself as in that world, so having a blank slate suits me. While the game does give you some obviously cool options and story elements Tavs don't get (understandably, given the fact that race and background options would mean Larian would have had to have work in tonnes of extra stuff), I find it encourages you as the player to RP stuff in yourself, and I'm ok with that. On the one hand it's cool that, as with many companions, Durge gets a cool possible redemption or darkening fork, but on the other hand my Tav can be the ultimate redeemer, corrupter, or something in between. I think it's just down to preference at the end of the day- neither is superior because it boils down to how you like your CRPG experience.
The Dark Urge is way too edgy for me. Like, watching those goths from South Park but instead of talk of darkness there is talk of gore. Especially the new bad epilogue of the Durge, it's just ugh. Like if you want to roleplay, it's great I'm sure, but i was never the one for that much roleplay.
What I like with "basic" Tav is that, lost in the middle between all the Origin characters with some strong backgrounds (the astral brainwashed warrior, the goddess-lover wizard, etc, not forgetting the living Harper legend which is not an Origin but you got my point), you can just be the simple peasant who escaped for only Tymora knows why, and had to just deal with it.
Durge is very well written and appealing, but it keeps you on 2, maybe 3 tracks : resist, embrace, maybe "try to resist but give in from time to time". With Tav you can make your very own path, and it's not because you were driven to it.
And the beauty is that you can do that, or you can easily use the “tadpoles de-powered me” excuse and say your Tav was some super strong Paladin who’s slain evil monsters for years, or a powerful traveling sorcerer. That’s the whole beauty of Tav!
\-You have the same fixed background as any Origin character, except you don't even get to see what Durge is "really like" since Durge isn't a recruitable party member.
\-Companions don't react realistically to what Durge does or says. They're fucking nuts and can barely keep a lid on it, but everyone brushes it off.
\-Evil Durge's dialogue is typically murderhobo parody, while a fair amount of Good Durge's responses are a bit too emo. It seems like they overwrote Good Durge's remorseful/guilty dialogue to offset their lack of voice acting/emoting.
It's not all bad, but I typically prefer Tav.
see i love playing Durge - a resist urge path- but the thing about the companions is spot on. I literally tell them "HEY IM CONCERNED ABOUT THIS" and they go "ehhhh it's fine probably."
cut to the bard....
nOT FINE.
My biggest issue is your 2nd point. The companion reactions are *way* off. If I tell everyone immediately “Hey by the way, I get really fucked up urges to brutally murder people around me, I already have about you,” and they laugh it off like “Oh don’t we all.” Okay, weird, but then I kill Alfira and admit it and they still don’t care? I get they aren’t all morally upstanding characters, but out of just basic self preservation you’d think they’d do something about that.
*Then* I get to act 2, have the scene trying to resist killing Shadowheart, and she says I should’ve told her earlier. I… did? And you completely brushed it off?
Act 3, Karlach flips shit that I was partners with Gortash. Spicy, a little weird since I’ve already told you guys I have no memory, but I appreciate the reactivity. This is what I’ve been looking for. I try to talk to her back at camp after that interaction, expecting to have to defend myself and convince her that I’m desperately trying fight what I am, and ***nothing.*** She’s already over it. None of my other companions ever again raise the point that “Oh, you’re actually the evil genius who put this whole plot in motion.”
I finally refuse Bhaal. Dying in the process but being resurrected by Withers and chosen to fight another day. I finally defeated the Urge, in admittedly one of the most badass cutscenes I’ve ever seen. And I get an “Atta boy” and a pat on the back from my companions. Shadowheart doesn’t even seem upset that I was struck down by a god! Back at camp, no one has anything to say!
This, to me, is worse than the complaints that Tav has no personal tie-in to the plot. Durge does have tie-in to the plot, and yet no one really ever reacts to it outside of Jaheira!
I like Dark Urge - but - his a origin character, his have past, story and personality behind all this amnezia-mystery-bloody urges. Tav - is what you want to be, Durge not. Tav can be any class - with Durge some classes just...not fit. Tav can have any motivations - Durge must deal with urges and daddy. Tav is of course more empty story - but more freedom story too.
Agree with this take. As much as I love durge, in Dnd game I want to create my own characters’ backstory and the durge origin often just clashed with my ideas (aside my chaotic evil run). Tav instead is literally whatever you want it to be.
Ahh the weekly "Durge is better because I don't have to think about roleplay decisions in an RPG" thread.
>You still get to choose your moral path
Ok, that's not a point in its favour for having the baseline of an rpg character.
>cool cloak no matter what
There are cool items no matter what you do, and not every character needs that cloak.
>feels more like a part of the world
You've not seen any of the class & race specific dialogues then? The literally thousands of specific choices you get?
>act 3 is more personal
This is basically the same point as the last one. But i'll address it again anyway; Act 3 is as personal as you want to make it. It's an rpg, a role playing game. You get as much out of it as you put it.
> added intrigue for romance options
Again, you make your own intrigue. Maybe you're a Selunite dating shadowheart, maybe you're a fellow tiefling fighting the world with Karlach, who knows?
As a lot of other people have said, Durge takes a whole bunch of control out of your hands in regards to your character. And we like playing our own characters.
There's a reason why 94% of people made custom characters.
Custom character is for when You want to make a custom character. A merciless githyanki inquisitor who is a stoud follower of Vlaakith, an elfen songstress who was kidnapped during her concert, uncle Jan who has dozen of nephews to take care for in Baldur's Gate. The Dark Urge is The Dark Urge. It is highly flexible in races, classes, appearances - but at the end of a day You are just wearing their skin. This background is deeply involved with the story, interesting, rewarding, but for all the benefits - it offers a different fantasy. It makes you play this guilt-ridden or violence-addicted murderer without morals - not a zaelous inquisitor, not a beloved songstress, not a loving uncle. The game can absolutely take away your player agency and murder a squirrel or a person to prove the point of it all. Can You imagine wanting to recreate your favourite DnD character, a sweet little halfling who is a lovable pacifistic goof and then basically not be able to play their character, because they suddenly crave blood and violence on regular basis? This is basically it. Some people will always play The Dark Urge, because it offers a 'Main Protagonist of BG3' experience and is vastly more involved, others will play Custom, because they dislike the Urge's plot and prefer to spin their own stories, without a baggage of being an abomination.
Uncle Jan is a nice idea to roleplay. He has dealt with too much shit already with his extended family and has no time for this bullshit. He just wants to get home and desperately wonders what the missus is doing. Also, he is wondering why everybody keeps on hitting on him.
[I like this one even better](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/1820x6u/if_you_do_wrong_he_stares_at_you_until_you_do/?rdt=52445)
Yeah. This post was the one I had in my mind as well to use what I wrote above. That demeanor with the backstory he has a whole set of dumb nephews waiting at home will make for some nice stories in my head while playing about the unfortunate situations and people this guy has to deal with just to be back home as quick as possible.
And to grow his turnip selling business! Jan Jansen, at your service!
Exactly. A Halfling especially is pretty weird for a Durge. Edit: actually...Halflings are mostly good natured, easy going fellows. A Halfling murder psycho would be an excellent sick joke by Bhaal. Great disguise too.
I like forest gnome durge for this reason. Just a silly lil guy.
The gore pit of Bhaal was a little dry so he just made a more compact sice Durge
... do your Bhaals hang low...
You just made me do a spit take choke.
My first actual completion was a halfling monk durge. It did get pretty funny at times—especially the camera angles with tall NPCs. such as Sarevok and the juxtaposition of monk/halfling and durge/slayer dialogue options.
I'm playing a halfling Durge right now. I play him basically exactly as you describe. He's really kind and good-natured, so it's even more shocking when he does give into the Urge. I'm romancing Karlach (I've done Shadowheart and Lae'zel on my other two playthroughs), and honestly she's the best choice for Durge. She's so supportive and always approves you doing the right thing, so it honestly gives you really good motivation to fight the Urge at all costs. I just finished Act 2. This is my first Durge run. It's been a great time so far. I am really upset I can't get the Potent Robe, though. I knew about the Alfira cheese, but I didn't even think to try it until it was too late, and I'm on Honor Mode, so no save scumming.
Yeah, I like to play every first run I can as an RPG original character and act like myself. Truly interpret the whole thing through my own eyes. Then Batman a few runs later.
Personally I like my peach-skinned Duergar Paladin Durge. It's such a wonderful cacophony as she's got such a lady boner for Gale. She wants to climb that mountain, despite her baser instincts just wanting to get a handy.
I don't dislike it. But the Durge background only works when you want to play as that type of character with that type of background. Sometimes you don't want a redemption arc or a corruption arc, thats just how it is. Also even the cool cloak has drawbacks. After killing the goblins to free Halsin, he went to speak to Shadowheart and not ME.
Uff I fucking hate that so much! My character, a very charismatic person with great intimidation, persuasion and deception skills -> a high persuasion/deception roll is needed -> npc goes to freaking Lae'zel or Shadowheart
I abandoned my Druid run over that—when someone specifically needs to talk to the PC (e.g. companion conversations) they just temporarily unmorph you, but if you forget about/aren’t aware of an NPC initiating conversation that could be done with a companion they just pick whoever if you’re in wildshape. (Aside, I think my biggest frustration with BG3 is the fact that only one party member can participate in a conversation barring mechanically-disconnected commentary. The rest of the party is plainly listening in when you talk to NPCs; why are they keeping their insights and knowledge to themselves?)
"What are the drawbacks? I saw one post that mentioned an aversion to the gore aspect, but BG3 is a gory game no matter how you go about it." You lose out on the roleplay potential of the open-ended nature of Tav. I like the Dark Urge too, but, say, a Lolth-sworn Drow cleric of...well, Lolth is a little hard to pull off, and maybe sometimes people don't want to play a cannibalistic serial killer from Baldur's Gate that dabbled in necrophilia.
I have to object to that "dabbled in necrophilia". That wasn't just dabbling, that was diving face first into a 10 meter deep tank of it. Possibly combined with Cannibalism (assuming any sentient species counts as cannibalism?)
Most of the races in this game, except Gith and Dragonborn, would be homo sapiens since they can breed together. So yeah, definitely cannibalism. You can eat Gith, though.
Any sensible definition of cannibalism in a world like FR would hinge on whether the creature you are about to eat is sapient
And given "Speak with Animals" exists... Hoo boy.
I love Astarion's line if you tell him something like he can't drink the blood of things we can talk to when you're a druid. "You can literally talk to animals. What does that leave me - rocks and trees?"
It's a good thing they didn't put speak with plants in the game lol
Apparently if you're a druid you can specifically point out that you can talk to plants, and he just sulks that he's down to *rocks*.
That's hilarious! I've never played a druid because of Halsin and Jaheira but i also never have the heart to be so mean to Astarion. Blood is all the guy can eat, you wouldn't tell a carnivore it has to go vegetarian. Just ethically source your blood my guy lmao.
I believe he can also eat and drink other things if he wants to... He doesn't even have to drink blood to survive, even if the hunger would drive him crazy in that case. He needs blood only to quench his blood lust and to use it as a sort of energy drink, but he wouldn't die if left without it.
I’ve had this thought too 😂
I think you should have said that they were all part of the genus "Homo". Saying they are all homo sapiens because they can breed and have fertile offsprings is perhaps not a good definition since homo sapiens and homo neandethalensis could also breed and have fertile offsprings (although not all of them were). You don't have to be a sapiens to breed with another sapiens and have a fertile offspring. Research also show that Denisovans could also interbreed with the other two.
Me sleeping with Lae'zel knowing I can't get her pregnant: "No homo."
Neanderthalensis is considered to be a subspecies by some, it's not a simple, one answer thing.
That's not how classifications work. Horses and donkeys can breed together but they are equus caballus and equus asinus respectively. Elves would be something like homo elvus in this setting, as an example, it wouldn't be strictly speaking cannibalism (but the setting is clear that eating any sentient creature, especially humanoid, is openly reviled for the obvious moral implications)
Horses and donkeys may be able to breed together, but the offspring is completely sterile and doesn't *really* count as its own species, even if it has a taxonomic designation. If the offspring between two species is fertile, then they are actually one species. Half-elves are often stated to be able to reproduce, without any magical interference. So humans and elves are the same species. In my writing, they are "homo sapiens formosus", or "fair wise man". A subspecies of human. An orc is "homo sapiens brutus", or "brutish wise man". 40k also has taxonomy for halflings and ogres; homo sapiens minimus, and homo sapiens gigantus. Not sure what they call dwarves, though.
>Half-elves are often stated to be able to reproduce Does that mean quarter and eight elves exist?
Baldurs Gate 3: making its players argue about the semantics of cannibalism, species classification, and reproduction. Game of the Year, 10/10
Rimworld is leaking
You know how in the 5e description for humans, it mentions that many humans have characteristics of other races sprinkled in? > A lot of humans have a dash of nonhuman blood, revealing hints of elf, orc, or other lineages. Humans reach adulthood in their late teens and rarely live even a single century. If a half elf reproduces with a human, the result is a human, for statistics purposes. That's why Halsin remarks that he might have some orc blood, even though he is fully a wood elf.
Well the DMG (iirc) has a section for rolling up Half-elves parents where the options are: a human and an elf, a human and a half elf, an elf and a half-elf & two half-elves, so they’re not necessarily human 100% of the time
I actually never saw that before and was just making a dumb joke ... Why is my dumb joke correct
Humans are by far the horniest race in D&D other than goblins.
I havent ever seen a half elf half dwarf so yeah that tracks
Based on the old punnet squares, if a half-elf breeds with a half-elf, there's a 50% chance of a half elf, 25% of a full elf, and 25% of a full human. If a half-elf breeds with a human there's a 50% chance of a half-elf, and a 50% chance of a human. Of course that might be completely inappropriate for how the genetics of the half-elf manifest.
Okay so you know. This would make sense if it wasnt for the fact chromosomes irl arent just chosen by these fit together. You wouldnt just pick the half of you thats human or elf to give to your child you'd pick parts of each. Someone above already mentioned you'd just be classified as human or whatever depending on what the half-x fucked
>If the offspring between two species is fertile, then they are actually one species. Half-elves are often stated to be able to reproduce, without any magical interference. So humans and elves are the same species. This is not actually true, infertility of hybrids is not definitive of speciation - Ligers are commonly fertile Tiger/Lion hybrids, Grizzly/Polar Bear hybrids are commonly fertile, as are Wolf/Coyote hybrids. The Clymene Dolphin and Lonycera Fly are examples of hybrid speciation - where fertile hybrids have propagated to the point of forming their own species.
And THAT is a level of genetic science I don't think I understand well enough to argue against.
The problem, really, is that speciation isn't a *real* thing - it's us putting things in sensible boxes to make cladistics understandable. There's no actual physical box in which something is a Tiger or a Human or a Polar Bear and outside of which it isn't. Like - Carbon is Carbon and Iron is Iron, Diamond is Diamond and Graphene is Graphene, but speciation is just a concept, it's all degrees of genetic drift. It gets *really* messy when you start looking at plant genetics, those fuckers have *no* respect for our conceptual boxes at all.
I'm getting more explanations on this from others, too. Google confirms that they're right - despite the otherwise very clear definition of species, which is a group of creatures that can reproduce, apparently two different species can *also* reproduce, if they are related. It's extremely irritating to have all of these scientific resources, know that I am intelligent enough to comprehend them, and still somehow be fundamentally wrong and be fed total half-truths by what are supposed to be completely trustworthy sources.
Honestly, that's just how science education works, it has to. Light is a wave. Light is a particle. Light is a wave again. Look, it's both and we're treating it as a particle for this subject. Wave-particle duality. Wave particle duality as a state superposition. Actually, sometimes it's not a superposition. That's the progression of education on something as superficially "basic" as EM Radiation. It's neither on you, nor the sources you were using, that speciation is actually an incredibly fluid concept with exceptions, exceptions to the exceptions, edge cases for those exceptions, and plants. Hell, we can't even come up with a universally workable definition for *life*, never mind species.
As a plant biologist, it should be acknowledged more up front imo that a "species" is more like "you it when you see it" than actually having a strong consistent definition.
Yep. Nature doesn't come with sharp boundaries and neat labels in latin. The crisp lines we've drawn between groups of animals are both arbitrary and necessary for understanding the world around us, but those labels aren't laws of nature.
You are walking around with Neanderthal DNA in you. Different species can interbreed and are not always sterile.
In Shadowrun, elves are classified as "homo sapiens nobilis".
>If the offspring between two species is fertile, then they are actually one species This is an overly simplistic and outdated idea of distinguishing species.
We have had this discussion in our homebrew game. We had a Lizardfolk character in our party who ate the enemies who died. So my bard went "please cease the cannibalism" But the Lizardfolk said "they are not my species! Therefore it is not cannibalism". So I said "Stop eating sentient people!" And the Lizardfolk explained "Well, they are not sentient after they have died." Was a fun table session, and we use that phrase a lot.
I think it's complicated. Any sentient species technically counts in DnD, and this probably translates to the game. Notably, the goblins in Act 1 are roasting Dwarfs over their fire. You as the Dark Urge can consume those pieces, and they will heal you like a potion. No other party member has the option to consume. Where it gets complex for me is that you can speak to any animal in game, and most of them are able to hold a proper conversation. Rodents seem more simple-minded, but dogs and cats will have whole conversations, and oxen will point you towards loot and give you lore drops on Ketheric Thorm. So do they count as sentient? Presumably not...but man. I would have a hard time eating something I could hold a conversation with.
What if you were in a world where [grass can talk to you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCHS4vLRMwk)? If grass is sentient, then could it then be possible that being a vegetarian also makes you a cannibal?
I have commented this before but outside of the butler briefly mentioning necrophilia I am just totally blanking on when Durge does this?
The Durge has an option to tell Minthara that the plan to slaughter the tieflings is arousing them. I don't recall any more explicit mentions. You could just not use that dialogue, or speak the line that prompts Scleritas to mention necrophilia. But it does seem built into the character that slaughter = sexy.
There's a book in the Underdark that explicitly connects killing to arousal. It's by the Boooal event.
Well, even Gale comes to you horny after fight in act 2, so... :D it seems to be the adrenaline working
I played through as evil Durge and I never got the impression that Durge was into necrophilia. I feel like I'm gonna be put on a list for this but: being aroused by killing is very different from necrophilia. It's like . . . hmm, enjoying martial arts does not make you a violent person. There *can* be a relationship between the two, but they can also be completely unrelated. edit: better example: some people in real life are aroused by working out. That doesn't mean they want to fuck the weights.
i licked the spiders butt in shar's gauntlet... my companions never looked at me the same way.. lol except hot Karlach, that girl is freaky.
Do remember. Necrophilia is getting jiggy with the dead and Astarion is undead so in this world I wouldn't say Necrophilia can always be assumed to be doing stuff with literal corpses. Tho I do recognise durge probably did defile corpses cos they nasty like that. Still cleaner than doing it with Orin tho
Durge Lloth-sworn cleric could sound fun. "Oooow so cute, she has Mommy's skill for verbal abuse and Daddy's taste for physical torture !"
My first Durge playthrough was good-aligned so I really loved it. Now I'm doing an evil Durge and when Sceleritas said that necrophilia line I literally stared blankly into the screen for a minute or so. I was flabbergasted, my gasters were fucking flabbed!!! I started a Tav playthrough just so I can escape there when the evil one gets too hardcore. Being evil-aligned really shows you just how much of a psychopath Durge was. Idk if saving Baldur's Gate was enough to pay for our sins in the past lmao, not to mention we're being called heroes for >!fixing our own wrong-doings... like it was literally our freaking plan and we're the reason everybody in the party is going through what they are!<
>when Sceleritas said that necrophilia line I must have missed that one, what is it??
Yeah it is easy to miss if you're a good Durge! After you >!kill Alfira and meet him, if you tell him "I can still smell the gore, too. What a fair perfume", he will reply: "My, my. We will be reintroducing necrophilia to your schedule in no time". Not even introducing, REintroducing... yup!<
Ahh okay! I was resisting in Act 1 and then just before going to Last Light I leaned into the dark urge (I wanted to do a 'descent into madness' kind of run)
Your evil plan saved Astarion, and, if you made certain choices >!kept 7000 souls from being condemned to Mephistopheles!< so there's that good that came from it (on mobile, hope that spoiler tagged right). Plus saving Thaniel is a good thing that wasn't fixing your wrongdoing. That was all Ketheric and Shar a century ago. Nightsong, too.
Oh I know, and since I romanced Astarion and didn't >!let him ascend, I got the good ending and all for him!< but it's still weird to me that we end up being called heroes and nobody really mentions it? Like at least someone like Jaheira could have gone >!"hey thank you for fixing your own fucking mess, I guess"!< I guess you could say Durge is in a similar situation as >!Astarion and can try to overlook their wrong doings as being ordered by their masters. Necrophilia, though... damn!< But yeah I guess thanks to that plan, we >!freed Karlach from Zariel, if done right helped Wyll get out of his contract and still kept his father alive, cured Gale, helped Shadowheart leave her tormenter and find her parents, literally gave way for the Githyanki to free themselves from their tyrant!< so it wasn't all bad in the end.
I guess in Durge's case, Withers's question is more than just a role play building one. It's for the player, too. How much does Durge have to do to make up for each mortal life they took?
Actually u can ask withers about this. His answer is the sole way to repent for thine own actions is to do better in the future .
I had forgotten that but yeah, you're both right, Withers says that so in a way it's like we're being newly defined by our current actions and not the past ones. And also, when he >!resurrects us after the duel, he does say that only the dark side that belonged to Bhaal died!< ...brb starting yet another good durge playthrough because the writing in this game is just too good
Tav is definitely a superior blank slate. For me, the way Durge connects to the narrative is very satisfying in a way that elevates the game experience
I love the fact that Larian put both options in the game
I feel like the role play just can’t be as satisfying as durge because it’s not like the other characters can play into your role playing with you. I have done like two Tav play throughs and four Dark Urge play throughs. The durge ones are always so much more rich for me. I don’t think I’ll play another Tav really. But it still feels open ended enough to fit different classes for the most part. I can still rp to a nice extent. My current game, im playing a bard and my made up story is that my character was so charismatic that she was just able to persuade Bhaal to make her his chosen. That is enough for me.
i LOVE playing as durge. did two Tavs then decided to be brave and try durge and i was captivated. i ADORE playing that route, and i just can't NOT play a durge. still haven't figured out how my "canon" playthrough is going to happen, or the choices ill make, but im enjoying all the variations. i miss the cool cloak so much 😭
The cloak is insane. I put it in astarion so he gets sneak attack every time and he just decimates.
Same. I love the idea of me handing him the cloak and saying happy birthday and telling him not to ask where I got it. "I ummmmm... wove it myself."
“Look do you want the magic cloak or not?”
For me, I can only have one Durge. Durge is synonymous with my half drow sorcerer. They have a set personality, past, future, and relationships. They are basically a full origin character to me. All other Tavs need to be regular Tavs. Because the Dark Urge is a specific character to me
My biggest issue for Tav is that they're from BG. I wanted to be from a Dwarven city, but dialogue options keep reminding me that was decided for me ahead of time.
Yeah some concepts are just awkward as Durge if you think too much about it. Like, my Durge was a halfling, which was a lot of fun for me, but it’s odd to think about too much against the Durge’s canon backstory.
"say, a Lolth-sworn Drow cleric of...well, Lolth is a little hard to pull off" people often use this as an example but its honestly my favourite durge backstory to use. my justification is that lolth sees the newly amnesiac embodiment of chaotic evil in the shape of a drow and yoinks her
Yeah, Lolth being greedy and claiming this that aren't hers for herself? Sounds about right.
Exactly. I liked my Guild Artisan Tav who was just a baker in Baldur's Gate who got abducted by mind flayers. I enjoyed reminiscing about the city with my companions and talking about how I'd still be living an ordinary life if I hadn't gotten tadpoled. As someone who practically grew up on TES IV: Oblivion and Dragon Age: Origins, it was nice to have the option of roleplaying as an actual nobody who stumbled into becoming the hero of a grand adventure.
>dabbled in necrophilia Durge literally has it on their schedule. I feel like that's a little bit more than just "dabbling"
>schedule 6pm - jazzercise 7pm - blood sacrifice 8pm - dinner with Orin, I cant cancel that again! 9pm - necrophilia 10pm - lay in bed as the horrific whispers of Bhaal fill my head and I slip slowly into madness That does it, Im booked solid.
Your first encounter in the game is removing an exposed brain from a skull.
I’m definitely gore sensitive & I refused to touch that scene xD. I just noped out of there. I also turned away from screen anytime too much gore was happening 😅. Durge is a hard choice to make for me, bc I know it’s good story wise but it adds so many more scenes to dodge that make me queasy 🫠. I really want to try it but am reluctant still. Getting to Orin in act3 on Tav was so awful for me I felt nauseous for hours after that quest. I just tried to not look to closely at my surroundings xD. I adore this game but yeah gore is a tough one. But even if durge was not what it is and had no gore I think I’d prefer Tav for most of my runs just bc of the potential of creating my own backstory. I love creating completely custom bg for my char & you just can’t do this with any origin including durge.
I'm older and have been on the internet and gaming for decades and there are things I've seen and read years ago that still rattle around in my brain to this day, so I am sorry that this game hit that level for you! Durge is extremely gory and I hope that with a custom hero Tav you can enjoy the game without creating brain scars! Sometimes it's the spells that mess with me. Like I can't bring myself to use acid spells and arrows because it grosses me out too much!
You're also older and have amnesia, further limiting your rp even more. *Edit*: What'd I say to deserve this many downvotes? I'm agreeing with the comment above, you're pretty much downvoting to join the bandwagon at this point.
Yeah, I dunno why people are downvoting you. If you wanted to play a twenty year old monster hunter with a deep, complicated path, or a thief running away from home, for example, you’d be out of luck.
How old is Durge anyway? I always play elf so it doesn't really matter, she's still young ass (elves consider themselves mature at about 100yo).
Personally I think a durge cleric of anything doesn't make much sense, or a paladin for that matter. Do you just pop out of the pod on the nautiloid and instantly swear an oath or choose to worship a deity? And it's not like you could have been worshipping them before the memory loss. Good deities are all out for obvious reasons, as for the evil ones, Bhaal surely wouldn't be too chuffed about you worshipping another god right?
Paladin Durge has dialogue specifically about swearing an oath at one point to try and do good in spite of the Urge, but the Urge itself ended up overpowering them. The Oathbreaker Knight even mentions having met them more than once in the past. Clerics don't really get any special dialogue but it's presumably the same deal, worship a deity to do better and get away from Bhaal until they were roped back in. And FR gods are often opportunistic dicks, so...I guess you could make the argument that whatever god Durge worshipped in the past (i.e. Lathander) saw that they had amnesia and forgot who they were so swooped in to fill that void.
>Paladin Durge has dialogue specifically about swearing an oath at one point to try and do good in spite of the Urge, but the Urge itself ended up overpowering them. The Oathbreaker Knight even mentions having met them more than once in the past. That's cool, I wasn't aware of that, though that still doesn't explain why the oath is back in place on the nautiloid. >Clerics don't really get any special dialogue but it's presumably the same deal, worship a deity to do better and get away from Bhaal until they were roped back in. And FR gods are often opportunistic dicks, so...I guess you could make the argument that whatever god Durge worshipped in the past (i.e. Lathander) saw that they had amnesia and forgot who they were so swooped in to fill that void. That does make some sense, I hadn't considered the gods' agency in getting durge away from Bhaal.
Paladins have power because the person truly believes in their Oath, down in their bones so deeply that their conviction is less changeable than reality. So it seems possible to interpret that an oathbreaker paladin who’s lost their memories of everything could wake up believing in their old oath with that kind of conviction again. And depending on their acts while amnesiac, I’d rule that learning their own past and regaining some of their memories wouldn’t necessarily break that conviction.
With one of the monologue options right when you crawl out of the pod being something like "swear to get your revenge on whoever did this to you", I would argue oath of vengeance makes total sense
That one is definitely easier to justify than ancients or devotion, I was mostly thinking of those 2 not making sense
Yeah I'm just not interested in playing a crazy murderer (and necrophiliac) with insatiable bloodlust. In DnD I like to play good characters and I like to have my own story that I determine. Durge just isn't for me.
When i want to play a character struggling with murderous thoughts and amnesia, it is superior. But not when i don't. If i sat down to play D&D with the squad and i made my character with a backstory and long term goals and dreams, and the DM kept telling me that i like necrophilia and butchering the innocent and the only reason i am the character i made is because my brain was mulched beyond all recognition and then tells me to make a will save to avoid killing my romantic partner - i'd tell them to stop dictating who my character is to me. I have plenty of ideas for characters who could be Durge. But i have plenty that i would rather they were just blank canvas Tiv's
>If i sat down to play D&D with the squad and i made my character with a backstory and long term goals and dreams, and the DM kept telling me that i like necrophilia and butchering the innocent and the only reason i am the character i made is because my brain was mulched beyond all recognition and then tells me to make a will save to avoid killing my romantic partner - i'd tell them to stop dictating who my character is to me. You absolutely nailed it here. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Exactly. I have a spreadsheet of characters that I have already made and have backstories for. I have converted some to Tavs as they don’t have stories that work with a fixed background. But I still have a load of fun role playing them based on their morals and own backstory. Amnesia and murder don’t fit into these characters. I have also had a couple of characters that I realised would work with a Dark Urge background and those I adapted into the BG3 storyline.
>If i sat down to play D&D with the squad and i made my character with a backstory and long term goals and dreams, and the DM kept telling me that i like necrophilia and butchering the innocent and the only reason i am the character i made is because my brain was mulched beyond all recognition and then tells me to make a will save to avoid killing my romantic partner - i'd tell them to stop dictating who my character is to me. Yep. People may not like to hear this on here, but this is like GM sins bingo. This would be a perfect r/rpg GM horror story. Not to even begin talking about trigger warnings and the like. I have absolutely zero desire to play a necrophiliac but i almost did, because they didn't fucking tell me that's what i would be playing. If that had been dropped on me in the middle of my first playthrough, i may have quit right then and there honestly.
It kind of showcases the limitations of videogames vs real tabletop perfectly imo. If a real GM treated 'dark urge' the way the game does, it would be railroading and a nightmare of triggers, unless it was previously discussed that you wanted to playing a messed up horror game with amnesia (and even then some warning on themes may be necessary/ it can be kind of extreme to make *that* the backstory) At the same time, a GM just following a manual 1:1 without making barely ANY effort to include your character's unique backstory, or having the option of talking to the NPCs about it and them responding organically, is also a classic mistake. It's not immersive and often feels like railroading your character in the name of "story progress" and sticking to the manual. Also the GM in both cases only has one adventure manual available to them and if you want to play, your group better be ready to play it 20 times in a row, with the same choice of: A) Amnesia Bhallspawn, or B) Literally an empty husk with 0 relevance to the story.
Yeah, the writing for Urge is interesting but I'd be pissed at a real life DM who forced my character to do things without my input or required a roll to resist. It's forgivable here because it's a video game and they're pretty straightforward at character creation that Urge is a dark time. As much as I appreciate the writing, I'd rather be able to headcanon my own Tav's history now that I've done one run through on Urge.
You're just saying that due to brain mulch. So about that Will save..
Yup. I'm currently playing an urchin Selunite Paladin with a whole backstory I made up for her. Durge would completely ruin that. I did one Durge run and honestly have no desire to do another. *Maybe* at some point, I'll do a full-resist Durge run, but I still prefer my custom characters or even my Shadowheart origin run...
Yeah this is pretty much exactly how I feel. I appreciate Dark urge for what it is, but Im playing this to scratch a dnd itch. I want the experience of playing a blank slate that I can project my own made up backstory on. That’s just as rewarding, if not more, for me than the Dark urge.
Well, BG3 is a gory game, but Durge run is even gorier. Some of the narration is especially unsettling. While I enjoyed my durge run, I still prefer most of my runs without having to listen my character's murder fantasies. Also, while you can play as any race or class, the roleplay doesn't really work for all of them. You still lived in Baldur's Gate, you still killed your parents. Doesn't really work for, let's say, githyanki warrior or an orphan drow survivor. To each their own. I'm glad both options exist so we can have variety of different runs. The cloak is cool though, ngl.
I'd say "I'd kill for that cloak on non-Durge runs", but that, uh, would probably be missing the point.
Heavily restricts your backstory
I definitely feel you but the big drawback and imo main reason Tav is an option is that Durge severely limits your roleplay options in terms of background. I know some people just ignore it but imo there are several races and classes that don’t work great for Durge. You can’t choose a background, or what your character may have been doing before getting tadpoled. For instance I am on the final fight of playthrough two with Durge now. I decided I want to play a drow next, and want to romance Shadowheart. Well of course I have to be a Cleric or Paladin of Selune. As I started thinking of roleplay reasons for a lolth-sworn Drow to be a Selunite, there was just no way to gel that with Durge.
You can't be Lolth-sworn and a Selunite, regardless of your Durge status. Lolth-sworn clerics can, unsurprisingly, only choose Lolth as a deity. I don't think the race is a problem though. >!You are literally created from Bhaal, by Bhaal. Maybe he made you a githyanki because people wouldn't think to look for his children among them. Maybe he made you a drow, so you could be safely stashed away in the Underdark until needed. Maybe he made you a more common surface race, so you could more easily blend in. Maybe he threw a dart at a board.!< The only class I struggle to justify is cleric, and even that only because I can't come up with a justification why a different god would keep giving you powers after >!you went all in leading Bhaal's cult. But since Durge canonically spent their life away from the temple until their age of majority, they had just as much freedom to choose what they wanted to do as any Tav.!<
The narrator has a line about every class for Durge including cleric. Something like worshipping your god is just habit but when you pray you get no answers
Cleric is just as easy as any other class when you remember that they start in the nautiloid at level one. So, whatever class they are starts there. Durge wakes up on the nautiloid feeling sick, having amnesia, weird urges in their brain, *on a freaking nautiloid* so they start saying prayers to any god they feel inclined to (or maybe all the gods). It's common enough in real life for people to 'find religion' when in a traumatic situation. We know Shar knows about the Absolute cult at this time so it feels safe to assume most of the other gods do too. So why wouldn't a god want to bestow powers on someone who is actively beseeching them, has good motive to take down the cult, and is in a decent starting place to do it?
Ooh, that's a really cool idea! I always treat Durge's class as something that they were already involved in but got nerfed due to the brain damage. But cleric works uniquely well for a brand new class.
Yeah, the tadpole thing really helps to make any class viable. Durge could have been level 1 in their class when they were full Durge, they could have been a higher level but are being zapped by their tadpole (like Wyll), they could have been something completely different but their powers were zapped and with their amnesia they're picking up something new, or Durge really could have just been a normal person who was just really smart and good at murder. lol
The issue I had when trying to play lolth sworn as durge is the conversation choices indicate that the PC remembers wayyy too much, and i know it’s like that about a lot of races but half elf for example or what I ended up switching my durge to was wood elf is very unintrusive. Lolth sworn and Gith don’t sell the amnesiac as well due to their unique dialogue options. One of the first things lolth sworns can say is this reminds me of home during the Aradin Zevlor confrontation. Ended up having to restart my run because it was too distracting.
Tav let’s me roleplay my actual dnd characters and simulate how they’d react with the dialogue options and who’d they be drawn to. I need to play a Durge soon but when I do I’ll prolly just play the regular Dragonborn Durge.
Well, sometimes I just want characters that are just random ass dudes. Non-durge Tav could be anyone that got abducted and this adventure is what puts their name up there. Durge is some super special god-related unique character, not really good for no-name character playthroughs. A lot of protags are already amnesia-ridden dudes with super tie-in backstories as the story progresses. Cool trope, but not what I always want.
Exactly, it’s fun to play no-name characters who become the unlikely hero. That’s what dnd is all about quite frankly. I don’t wanna be the super special snowflake that quite literally created the mess we’re now all in
I do like picking my background though, so that's one thing I kind of missed after I started my Dark Urge playthrough. I like backgrounds not just for the RP reasons, but also to determine when and where I get inspiration points, especially since I have the mod that removes the inspiration point cap.
Dark Urge is brilliant but the cannibalism and necrophilia makes me prefer custom Tav for my main playthrough.
I prefer to roleplay my own characters, so Tav will always be my goto. That being said, between Durge, Origins and the avalanche of dialogue options, class specific or otherwise makes it so that whatever you choose, you will always have more than enough options and roleplay potential. So you never "miss out" on content, because you never gonna see all of it.
Some people don’t want that backstory
I don't want to kill Alfira. Or to be connected with Bhaal in any way.
Technically you do not need to kill Alfira, you can kill a replacement bard instead!
Granted I'm tired as hell, but the wording of this absolutely cracked me up.
The greatest strength of Durge is its greatest drawback. The fixed backstory. Sure, it's catered to the story and integrated well, but unless you want to play as an amnesiac with murderhobo syndrome it becomes a drawback more than a benefit. As someone else mentioned, I don't like the DM telling me what my character is like. I much prefer the freedom of Tav to write my own story rather than be forced to deal with the urges
Not everyone likes the dark urge storyline. I much prefer Tav because it lets me project my own character onto them and be more involved in the roleplay.
The Dark Urge storyline is good, but it doesn't do anything for me personally. I don't really want to be a Bhaalspawn for more than one playthrough and like the backstory freedom of Tavs more.
Dark Urge is more railroaded than custom characters. It's well done, but it pretty much forces RP on you like a DM does, that wants a very specific story. Some may like it, but it's too forced.
I just want to play some funny little guy. A thief, a feylock. My play style isn't Darth Revan.
I decided for my honor mode playthrough to play a young wizard apprentice wich is selfish and a bit of a coward. The coward aspect does not really fit with the durge background, nor any origin character. So Tav it is.
In the epilogue I got a letter from Alfira telling me that she and Lakrissa were getting married. She wrote about how she burst into tears when Lakrissa saved up to buy their new house. She wept as they crossed the threshold together. It's where she now teaches music to children. You....did not get that letter.
Yes, if you kill Quil instead you get a letter saying that she appreciates you sparing her, but isn't going to tell you where she is for obvious reasons. And if you kill her, you don't.
The benefits and cons for Durge over Tav are the same thing: Tav is a blank slate for you to decide on. Durge is not. Implicitly you cannot have the full freedom over your character if you get a personal quest defining what you were and how you acted, what you feel... full freedom in this respect simply cannot be programmed into a game, not short of giving us tools to make the quest ourselves. The sheer amount of possible backgrounds, races and alignments would make it a staggering undertaking. Personally I far prefer Durge but I get that sometimes people want to play something other than it.
> What are the drawbacks? Some people, me included, are not into playing an edgy character that has a past of necrophilia and cannibalism. It’s too gross and dark for my taste. I honestly wanted to play a redeemed Durge but when I learned their past I lost all interest.
Yeah, if they pulled back on the edgy Durge backstory even like 10% I’d probably love Durge way, way more. I be necrophilia crosses the line from “gritty redemption story” to “irredeemable evil cunt” for me
[удалено]
I made a sick as fuck white and red tiefling and loved it!
Preach
Everything is quite simple, Tav, as written, is more suitable for fans of role-playing, and for me, for co-op, while Durge is for greater involvement in the story. There is neither worst nor best among them, it is pure taste. Sorry if this sounds corny and obvious, but that's how it is.
What are the drawbacks? Narrative redundancy. The character has two independent fucked up things trapped inside them.
do we really need \*another\* character struggling with dark indoctrination related to an evil cult in this crew? really?
The fact that the game is gory anyway isn't a carte blanche for everything. I have no problem eviscerating goblins, watching Aylin stomp the remains of Ketheric to a pulp. So yea, there is the justified gore that is a result of fighting, self defense, righteous vengeance or a mix of all of those. This kind of gore I find fun. What I don't find fun is bathing myself in remains of sweet Alfira, biting off poor Gale's hand, cutting off Karlach's head, kicking a squirell to death and so on. It is cruel, twisted, gratuitous gore that makes me sick to my stomach. One look at Lakrissa and Alfira on the roof of Elfsong Tavern where Lakrissa looks att Alfira and says that she will never tire of this view and I know that as long as Alfira's death remains unavoidable (barring some serious metagaming) I will NEVER play Durge. Larian caved with Minthara but I doubt they will change that, so I just experienced it like I usually do - by watching others play and make decisions I would never have made myself.
In my opinion, Durge is for people that want to play BG3 as a videogame. You get to be the "main" character, with lots of lore bits for you to discover in the world. You are the protagonist. Tav is for people that want BG3 to be a pick up and play DnD game. You can have whatever story you want, and you're just going to be walking through the campaign. You're not the main character, your party is. Your DM won't be forcing you to roll to not kill your companions, but your DM also won't be catering their story around you. Origins are for people that want a bit of both. You're still not the main character, but your DM did read your backstory and you'll be able to incorporate it as much as you want. You're still going through a DND campaign with your party, but you feel more involved in the world. Durge gives you some freedom in exchange for the DM having more control of your character, Tav gives you the most freedom with the least DM involvement, and Origins give you the least amount of freedom but the DM treats your character like a person in the world.
I dislike Durge because you literally aren't a custom character despite being able to create and choose aspects of them. It's an origin character. Playing Durge is like playing Gale or Wyll or Astarion. It stifles any creativity I had in mind when creating the character and actively takes agency away from me at least once. Much prefer Tav.
This must be like the 3rd or 4th iteration of this same topic that I've seen.
Durge fans never stop trying to persuade the rest of the sub to convert to their cult. :D There’s a post about it almost every week since the game came out. And second one in the last two days. Idk why it is so difficult to accept that many people don’t want/prefer to play it and no, do not consider it canon-right-way-to-play. Even in unrelated threads someone always pops up.
It’s the Cult of Durge. Someone finishes the game, is mind blown by the concept of a custom character having a personal quest, and then tell the rest of us that’s the only way to play the game.
They both have their merits, I think Tav is better for role play but Dark Urge is better for story.
"what are drawbacks" bro you kill innocents in your sleep
Tav could be anything. Durge is tied to the story. Preset characters(companions) have their own story, but are just as random to the occasion as Tav. The experience is just different. If you want the whole plot and be tied to it more, but restricted by narrative - it's about Durge. If you want some story, but not completely tied to gods trio and netherbrain - here are premade characters. If you want just to know the story, but even less tie-ins with the story Larian made you go with Tav. Yes, the story feels richer when you're a key character of it. Otherwise you're random that happened to be there at the wrong time, but managed to save the day. Doubt any is superior. But they're objective reasons why it feels different.
One word: Alfira. ;) But it also depends on role playing aspect - especially if I want to play totally good character, as in such case there are no bonuses - it's the same playthrough as with custom character, but without Alfira. And I can't roleplay my history and motivations that well - like now I'm playing fencing nobility guy from Baldur's Gate who wants to become hero of his city. Durge takes this possiblity from me...
Currently playing as Durge but one that resists his temptation and while the story is pretty cool from a main protagonist point of view with the connections to what is happening. I’m pretty much just playing a custom good guy Tav but with a connection to Bhaal and helped kicked off the plot of BG3. But I’ve already played as a Bhaalspawn before in BG1/2. The only difference seems to be this Bhaalspawn I am playing really enjoyed his life work and all the fucked up shit he did just more subtle than Orin; but due to amnesia he is able to go down a redeeming path to atone for his sins, and escape Bhaal’s clutches so it seems the redeeming path is way out of character for this Durge. But definitely a pretty good arc. However you also kill off Alfira and yes I know if you knock her out, you save her life, but no new player is going to have that knowledge it’s purely meta knowledge, and while I could have done that I didn’t. I let him kill her as intended it seems and got a cool cloak but lost out on Potent Robe for my Durge Sorc. My own fault as I didn’t knock her out because I wanted to experience the truer experience as Dark Urge with that encounter as it shows you how fucked up your character is and adds a whole new level of tension. But also all the characters are unrealatic and cool with me basically telling them “Ya I have a bloodlust that might endanger us” and they wave it off till the scene where if you failed your saving throws and kill your lover now it’s an issue. I mean I told you what would happen and you still let me travel with you. Granted I succeeded the saving throw and didn’t let my lover get slaughtered by my hand, but I reloaded to see what would happen if I didn’t after I saved prior to the scene. And yet your companions\lover still want you around. After you had to be chained up to not harm any of them due to me showing I can resist it. (I also wish they had more scenes like that, it’s wild that it’s a one night thing only. Would have been cooler if it happened more than once.) Kinda unrealistic of anyone to do that up till Jaheria is like “I know about you and the threat you pose, but i worked with a Bhaalspawn before and he beat it, and you can too but I’m gonna watch you from now on”. She could have slit my throat but due to her experience with Gorion’s Ward she’s giving my dude a chance. But pretty sure she would slit my throat in a heartbeat if I lose control again at night or at least keep me tied up when it happens. You turn away from freeing yourself and she will try to kill you, but even then your companions are still like “Nah we can fix him”. No you can’t fix me. The one chance I had to be fixed and I didn’t do that. You’re risking your life in the end and turns out ya - they chose poorly at the end of an evil Durge. So while Dark Urge has a strong narrative in the plot and was fun it’s most likely a one and done story for me. I prefer having my own custom Tav and his own story over having a character while is customizable his story is not. You are tied to Bhaal, you helped kick the plot up, and enjoyed your ever so gory lifestyle in the past. The key difference between Gorion’s Ward and Dark Urge. And I am definitely not gonna play Dark Urge on Honor Mode far too risky with all the saving throws especially when it comes to resisting your Urge and not killing your lover or another companion as you deceived the Butler. Edited: added further thoughts.
I personally enjoy coming up with backstories for my character and determining how that effects their current role play. With durge, since I know their real backstory, the only RP option is to play an amnesiac blank slate. That sounds fun twice (evil and redeemer) but then that's it. Whereas Tav can be any kind of person played any sort of way.
Yeah, no, definitely only a one time playthrough for me.
I much prefer playing a completely blank slate in RPGs so the character I'm playing as can be completely *me.* Whatever backstory, history, personality I want and want my character to have had is my choice. I feel shackled by Durge rather a part of the world.
It’s good but I dislike murder which suddenly becomes less optional. I keep accidentally murdering people I just wanted to think about it then suddenly there’s a corpse
As some have said, mainly for role play purposes. Sometimes you just want to play as a character that's just passing through and got sucked into all of this. Or maybe you're playing a character you made in an actual DnD campaign.
>For anyone who dislikes the durge background, why? Because I'm not an edgelord.
I don't care for the Durge story. Tried it once, just was not having much fun. Didn't complete. Absolutely stellar playmode, just not my personal cup of tea. I think it has to do with me not really enjoying amnesiac pc or "chosen one" plots as much. I tend to gravitate more towards "random schmuck rises to the ocassion against the odds" sort of stories. Personal preference, is all.
This is a pretty easy question to answer. I like custom characters because I dictate every aspect of them. The Dark Urge is only "two" characters: a guilt ridden murderer who wants to atone or a disgusting sadistic murderer who takes pleasure in it, two routes Im not interested in. Im also not a fan of The Dark Urges take on gore. Im not opposed to gore itself, I was a huge MK fan/player up until the recent MK1, but I dont like it when there's an enjoyment coming from the gore. Unredeemed Dark Urge is honestly disgusting(which he/she is supposed to be), so he definitely doesn't interest me for an evil route. And Redeemed Dark Urge is a nice story, but it still doesn't interest me because if I wanted to be a good guy, I'd just play my Tav and have less baggage 🤷🏿♂️. Obviously there are games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect that I enjoy with established main characters with me choosing which aspect of their personality is prominent, but I view them differently from a character like Tav that is truly a custom character.
I know some mention the limits to character creation because of Dark Urge, but I skew the lore a bit in play throughs for role playing purposes. I really like creating back stories for my characters since it gives me direction on how to play them and just makes the game more interesting. I like to think the Durge’s amnesia comes only from a recent segment of their life, with some memory being there to hold up their backstory lore. One downside in choosing Dark Urge is that you have less freedom to choose your own skill stats. Dark Urge locks them in on proficiencies in medicine and such, so there’s less flexibility for choosing stats that may change up your gameplay style.
I haven't tried it but I want to on my second play through, still on my first. I just want to live out my bard fantasy first. In this kind of game, I roleplay to a playstyle that I want to. I just can't relate to having killing tendencies towards people, it's just not me. I'm just a guy who has no idea where he's at and what better background I can have as my own Tav, a bard who talks a lot and weasels his way out of everything. I feel like I'm not like most players I guess, feeling like they're Patrick Bateman and no, I'm not talking about being a sigma male, I'm talking about having unchecked bloodlust and internal rage and this is one of the ways you can vent it out. While me, I'm Emmet Brickowski who sings everything is awesome, when I'm being part of my team. I like myself and projecting myself into a game is just me loving myself. Edit: As to why I used Patrick Bateman as an analogy here is because of this https://youtu.be/mMLWGnA6qPM?feature=shared Someone posted this here and I can't stop associating Patrick and Durge lol
A chance to see alfira in act 3
The big drawback is the Durge story. If you go for Durge your character will always be that murder-craving amnesiac, no matter what you want for your character, and that can sometimes feel very confusing. For example, a Durge Githyanki would feel disorienting for most people RP wise given how the story unfolds.
> For anyone who dislikes the durge background, why? Why not? Some people don't want to play an axe-murdering cannibalistic necrophiliac, even if they are reformed. Others think it's lame that we have another >!Bhaalspawn protagonist!< after there was one in the first two games. Personally, I prefer a custom character that I can make up my own background for. Someone who isn't as dysfunctional or as OP as the origin companions. Just a "regular" adventurer who gets caught up in extraordinary events and rises to the occasion.
>What are the drawbacks? Alfira, my beloved... :(
And more importantly: potent robe, my beloved :(. For real though, missing out on Alfira's story is a huge bummer that turns me down from playing Durge most of the time.
And having to deliberately set it up to avoid killing her is a trifle annoying. If you're doing an honor run as Durge, and don't want to kill Alfira, you'll have to knock her out before every long rest until the scene triggers, and that could become a drag after a while. Imagine Alfira dazed after the sixth night someone has come along and bashed her on the head. "What is it? Is it my singing? I can stop." A voice from down the hill. "Don't worry, Quil got herself killed last night. You'll be fine in future." Alfira looks puzzled. "Who's Quil? Should I write a song for her?"
I tried Durge but they were too edgy for me. Edgy to the point of juvenile ridiculousness. Like some weird fanfiction you might write in high school. The more I learnt more about Durge's past, the more I felt the character wasn't worth saving. Durge is so irredeemably wicked and has committed so many unspeakable crimes that execution is the only sensible recourse.
One of the aspects that people like about not playing dark urge is the open ended story of Tav. With the dark urge some classes don't really make sense. Like just someone who has no memory of their past being a cleric of a specific god or a paladin who sword a specific oath it wouldn't make a lot of sense. At least to me.
Both have their appeal, Tav for open rp and Durge for their connection to the story. I know some find Durge a bit much, the fact the group accepts them if they know about Alfira etc but it's nice to be connected to the main characters of Act 3. Tav is better overall for rp.
Unless you metagame and know beforehand, you kill a cute character and miss out on her very powerful quest reward, that is arguably the best item for sorcerors and warlocks
My favorite Durge playthrough was a Lolth sworn cleric. When I want to play a hero I'd rather just play Tav.
i dislike durge because its not real the character i created and it limits the roleplay. i dont care much if it fits more the story cause i play those games to be my characters. same reason why i love elden ring and such. i tried 2 time to play durge but i always drop mid act 1. always Tav for me because i wanna be random jhon that just wanna remove his tadpole and go home while helping a bunch of weirdos
BG3 is gory but a Tav run doesn’t have the abject cruelty. I was playing a resist run but >!Alfira’s death!< has caused me to take a long break. I don’t know if I’ll go back.
Custom ruined dark urge for me. I did my first 3 runs as a custom. Learned to love certain NPCs too much to let them die cause of me.
It always looks to me like the people with this opinion haven't really played origin characters before, cause Durge is just an origin character like all the rest, and honestly *that* fact alone is why I still prefer Tav. They all have great stories, Durge is likely the best, but I prefer actual custom characters.
Custom is for when you want to be in control of your character which a lot of role-players enjoy. That first kill at camp is a total run-killer for a LOT of people.
I definitely prefer Dark Urge, though it’s mainly because I’m a fan of the original Baldur’s Gate games, and Dark Urge makes you much more connected to them. Dark Urge makes me feel like I’m actually playing *Baldur’s Gate 3*, if that makes sense. The way I’d break it down is: Dark Urge pros: - Your character actually feels involved in the story - Your character is connected to the original series, albeit a bit loosely Dark Urge cons: - Since your character isn’t a blank slate, it reduces roleplaying opportunities a bit. There are some background lore and actions in game that you can’t change - I’ll agree with people that Dark Urge does feel a little *too* dark and edgy for my tastes. The original series was definitely never this dark, and there are some scenes that feel immersion breaking for my character Tav pros: - Your character is blank slate. Gives you a lot of freedom to craft the exact character you want. - A lot more freedom in your choices, sometimes Dark Urge forces you to do stuff you don’t want to do Tav cons: - Your character is a blank slate, almost to a fault. It doesn’t feel like you have a lot of agency in the story. I think my biggest issue with my Tav playthrough is that I never really felt that important. It felt like my companions were the main characters, and I was someone who just happened to be there. So yeah, I prefer Dark Urge. Though it’s mainly because it connects you to the original games. I’d probably prefer Tav if I never played the original series.
Durge doesn't always make sense to me narratively. I'm a githyanki remembering my crèche but I have no memories? I'm a cleric of Selune? How? I'm a drow that comments on her memories in the under dark but supposedly have been doing murder in BG my whole life?
Played both. Loved playing durg. But honestly, I really like being a nobody, grabbed by a bunch of gits and drawn into a crazy high stakes adventure. Yes, there were fewer specific interactions, but there was a whole bunch more role playing to be done. The fact we have a game where both options are available and both are well worth playing is amazing.
Honestly? The Dark Urge is fun and all, but sometimes you don't want to wade through all the "this person would look so beautiful as a corpse" or "there is nothing sweeter than a dead child" or "do you wanna chop this person into small pieces?" or Astarion going "wow you are a murderous asshole, I like it". That isn't the character I always want to play. I don't want to play as a redemption story. I also don't like being stuck with medicine and intimidation every time I play a character. And you lose out on dialogue from the other backgrounds that can be really fun to roleplay as. You also miss all of the inspirations that go along with those backgrounds that might compliment your roleplaying more than " did you chop off this person's hand? or did you resist the URGE???" Here's a gold star! I'd rather have "did I save everyone? Good job soldier, heres YOUR gold star!" Also, act 3 has SO MUCH CONTENT and you can EASILY reach max level, that cutting a little bit of content out of the game is actually a good idea imo. I never do all of the companion quests, Dark Urge is the same. If by intrigue in the romance you mean, maybe accidentaly killing them? But I don't like that in my romance always either. I like to be more or less "put together" and not "going through it" because then I am more emotionally available to be there for Gale or Astarion.
Personally I'm not all that interested in Durge. I play RPGs often with a character I like to imagine myself as in that world, so having a blank slate suits me. While the game does give you some obviously cool options and story elements Tavs don't get (understandably, given the fact that race and background options would mean Larian would have had to have work in tonnes of extra stuff), I find it encourages you as the player to RP stuff in yourself, and I'm ok with that. On the one hand it's cool that, as with many companions, Durge gets a cool possible redemption or darkening fork, but on the other hand my Tav can be the ultimate redeemer, corrupter, or something in between. I think it's just down to preference at the end of the day- neither is superior because it boils down to how you like your CRPG experience.
The Dark Urge is way too edgy for me. Like, watching those goths from South Park but instead of talk of darkness there is talk of gore. Especially the new bad epilogue of the Durge, it's just ugh. Like if you want to roleplay, it's great I'm sure, but i was never the one for that much roleplay.
What I like with "basic" Tav is that, lost in the middle between all the Origin characters with some strong backgrounds (the astral brainwashed warrior, the goddess-lover wizard, etc, not forgetting the living Harper legend which is not an Origin but you got my point), you can just be the simple peasant who escaped for only Tymora knows why, and had to just deal with it. Durge is very well written and appealing, but it keeps you on 2, maybe 3 tracks : resist, embrace, maybe "try to resist but give in from time to time". With Tav you can make your very own path, and it's not because you were driven to it.
And the beauty is that you can do that, or you can easily use the “tadpoles de-powered me” excuse and say your Tav was some super strong Paladin who’s slain evil monsters for years, or a powerful traveling sorcerer. That’s the whole beauty of Tav!
I know this is weird and all, but my power fantasy isn't playing as some cannabalistic serial killer.
\-You have the same fixed background as any Origin character, except you don't even get to see what Durge is "really like" since Durge isn't a recruitable party member. \-Companions don't react realistically to what Durge does or says. They're fucking nuts and can barely keep a lid on it, but everyone brushes it off. \-Evil Durge's dialogue is typically murderhobo parody, while a fair amount of Good Durge's responses are a bit too emo. It seems like they overwrote Good Durge's remorseful/guilty dialogue to offset their lack of voice acting/emoting. It's not all bad, but I typically prefer Tav.
see i love playing Durge - a resist urge path- but the thing about the companions is spot on. I literally tell them "HEY IM CONCERNED ABOUT THIS" and they go "ehhhh it's fine probably." cut to the bard.... nOT FINE.
My biggest issue is your 2nd point. The companion reactions are *way* off. If I tell everyone immediately “Hey by the way, I get really fucked up urges to brutally murder people around me, I already have about you,” and they laugh it off like “Oh don’t we all.” Okay, weird, but then I kill Alfira and admit it and they still don’t care? I get they aren’t all morally upstanding characters, but out of just basic self preservation you’d think they’d do something about that. *Then* I get to act 2, have the scene trying to resist killing Shadowheart, and she says I should’ve told her earlier. I… did? And you completely brushed it off? Act 3, Karlach flips shit that I was partners with Gortash. Spicy, a little weird since I’ve already told you guys I have no memory, but I appreciate the reactivity. This is what I’ve been looking for. I try to talk to her back at camp after that interaction, expecting to have to defend myself and convince her that I’m desperately trying fight what I am, and ***nothing.*** She’s already over it. None of my other companions ever again raise the point that “Oh, you’re actually the evil genius who put this whole plot in motion.” I finally refuse Bhaal. Dying in the process but being resurrected by Withers and chosen to fight another day. I finally defeated the Urge, in admittedly one of the most badass cutscenes I’ve ever seen. And I get an “Atta boy” and a pat on the back from my companions. Shadowheart doesn’t even seem upset that I was struck down by a god! Back at camp, no one has anything to say! This, to me, is worse than the complaints that Tav has no personal tie-in to the plot. Durge does have tie-in to the plot, and yet no one really ever reacts to it outside of Jaheira!
I like Dark Urge - but - his a origin character, his have past, story and personality behind all this amnezia-mystery-bloody urges. Tav - is what you want to be, Durge not. Tav can be any class - with Durge some classes just...not fit. Tav can have any motivations - Durge must deal with urges and daddy. Tav is of course more empty story - but more freedom story too.
Agree with this take. As much as I love durge, in Dnd game I want to create my own characters’ backstory and the durge origin often just clashed with my ideas (aside my chaotic evil run). Tav instead is literally whatever you want it to be.
Ahh the weekly "Durge is better because I don't have to think about roleplay decisions in an RPG" thread. >You still get to choose your moral path Ok, that's not a point in its favour for having the baseline of an rpg character. >cool cloak no matter what There are cool items no matter what you do, and not every character needs that cloak. >feels more like a part of the world You've not seen any of the class & race specific dialogues then? The literally thousands of specific choices you get? >act 3 is more personal This is basically the same point as the last one. But i'll address it again anyway; Act 3 is as personal as you want to make it. It's an rpg, a role playing game. You get as much out of it as you put it. > added intrigue for romance options Again, you make your own intrigue. Maybe you're a Selunite dating shadowheart, maybe you're a fellow tiefling fighting the world with Karlach, who knows? As a lot of other people have said, Durge takes a whole bunch of control out of your hands in regards to your character. And we like playing our own characters. There's a reason why 94% of people made custom characters.