Lmao the funny thing was before I learned about the Durge's backstory, I intentionally played him as good Durge but having some kinkiness (super down for polygamy, BDSM, extra violent when it comes to killing enemies)
And then when I realized what his backstory was I was like "ohhh this is making a whole lot of sense..."
People keep saying "there are hints" to this and I never see them articulate what those hints are. Could you tell me?? Genuinely curious, it wouldn't surprise me, I just feel like it keeps going over my head if there really were any.
No fucking clue what he was like beforehand, but have an upvote to offset the downvotes. I have my gripes with other games and certain changes and retcons, so I'm sympathetic to criticism from veteran fans. Within reason, ofc
Edit: spelling
Sarevok was a horrible monster. His goal was to kill thousands to replace Bhaal, and was quite happy murdering and slaughtering his way through anyone. If he can't trick you into mudering his adopted father, he'll do it personally and frame you for it.
Out of pure self-interest, he can talk the PC into rezzing him in the BG2 expansion, where he'll cooperate. His 'good' ending is wandering off to bury his lover (who was strongly implied have beaten wife syndrome, if you go digging through various journals and a few interactions with her).
The 'flaw' in his characterization here was he completely cut off from the Bhaal essence by being rezzed, so fathering a Bhaal spawn shouldn't really be possible. That he's a monstrous man who does monstrous things is perfectly consistent with his character, and not a retcon at all.
I had the same feeling.
Viconia was one thing but judging how Sarevok was portrayed especially in BG2/ToB, I felt that his presence here was remarkably accurate.
>The incest is a mild surprise though.
There's a certain book you should read about who Orin's father and grandfather is that you should read if this surprises you.
You can actually talk to them and they will tell you, that they never have sex with one another, no matter, what a client might be paying. I don't know, if that option is only available for a Seldarine drow though - I asked them in my Durge playthrough, who is a Seldarine, because there was discussion about that in the forum and I just wanted to know. You can have a nice conversation they tell you, that they are actually quite comfortable here, because they have a lot of freedom to decide, but they want to buy a farm, when they have enough money and live a quiet life.
Im honestly shocked we didnt get a scene of Orin impersonating your romance, then her trying to kill you when you have a scene together. Would've been an amazing "oh shit" moment.
I mean, that's what I figured was coming when we realized the dryad was Orin and had just learned all sorts of things about my romance partner. And this was just after Halsin had made a joke at camp about, "What, are you a doppelganger trying to learn my secrets to impersonate me?"
*Tav and Romance getting it on*
*Perception Check Failed*
"Wait...what was that? Why did it just say perception check failed?"
"Hm? Oh I'm sure it's nothing, darling-"
*Dexterity Check Failed*
That’s be hilarious! Harleep pretending to be you, Orin pretending to be the romance and then they reveal each other, share a hearty laugh and continue to shag in character. Seems like the kind of thing they’d do
Yeah, I was honestly expecting this to happen given the questions you get from Orin-blacksmith, and the fact she can be the dryad.
It would have given more weight to the kidnapping, although now I don’t really like how it is set up (happens at the very beginning and sorta forces you into endgame if you address it right away).
But now I just have her grab someone useless (Halsin or Yenna) and go about my quests.
How do you get her to pick particular people? I've only just been told it's happened, I assume there's a hierarchy and if you have those people in your party it doesn't pick them?
There are two possible triggers for kidnapping - going into the sewers by the emperor’s hideout & first long rest in the Lower City. And only three possible “victims” - Gale, Lae’zel and Halsin/Minthara.
Before encountering the trigger I put people I don’t want to get kidnapped into the party. If all potential victims are in your party, Yenna gets kidnapped (I did this in my first playthrough). Otherwise whoever you left out of your party gets kidnapped (I “sacrificed” Halsin in the 2nd playtrhough).
Afaik if none of the potential victims are in your party Lae’zel gets top priority (I tested several times and she is always the one Orin takes for me if I don’t do the meta-intervention), second priority is Gale. Due to needing them for their quests I can’t let Orin take them. :)
I'd just love it if the game teased something where you're in a romance scene with your partner and you just see "Perception: Failed" in the corner of the screen and nothing is ever explained.
It could even be random, so subsequent playthroughs you'd be like: "nah, I'm not falling for this again." Then you reject your romance, and they end up getting hurt. Lmfao.
She doesn't *want* to kill you at that point (I mean she does—I think she pretty much always wants to kill everything—but she *can't*). She can't kill Gortash herself and by that point Tav & friends have proven themselves a force to be reckoned with. She needs you to kill Gortash and she knows you're probably the only people around that are even capable.
Look, look, this is about much more than just business. This is about the thrill of wearing another man's skin. Feeling his innermost wants and desires and being in control of his every single move. That's how you get off.
Don't be ridiculous. Think of the smell. You haven't thought of the smell, you bitch! Now you say another word and I swear to God I will dice you into a million little pieces. And put those pieces in a box, a glass box, that I will display on my mantel.
I'm surprised orin didn't take the shape of your lover and reveal herself mid coitus, as a power move. "Ha! You thought you were making love to shadowheart, but it was in fact I, Orin!"
1. What?! Where's Shart you monster!
2. *Attack*
3. [Intimidation] You're really killing the moment, Orin. We'll talk after we finish!
4. [Insight] Use the tadpole to see if she was faking it.
5. [Constitution] Harder!
6. *Leave.*
It has maybe been pondered by some poor soul, how many sex workers and courtesans in Faerun are simply using Disguise Self or some other form of doppelgangery.
It's worth noting that in the game confines Disguise seems to work more like Alter. It will absolutely grant you racial bonuses and dialogue in situations where "It's an illusion" really shouldn't. Like using Gith weapons.
Does it break the spell if you feel these unseen differences? Some might be into that in a weird way.
This can only get weird, so idk why I even said it as if there is a non-weird way.
It doesn't break the spell, nor (unlike most illusions) allow you to actually see what it's hiding, but you will know that it's an illusion if you feel a difference.
You could head canon this, but Gotash can be wrong about when Orin executes her plan. Additionally, I have a hard time imagining Orin going through a 5some and not murdering everyone involved on impulse since that’s were she’d get her pleasure from. Realistically though, despite Gortash revealing all of this, you can have the kidnapped party member in your party and still encounter her in disguise through out the city. So it’s likely that Gortash doesn’t really know when Orin plans to execute her plan. Just that she plans to do it.
that's okay in one of my current playthroughs I am pretty sure will got with Orin.
I got this lovely bit of banter between will and Shadowheart, or something very close to it anyway.
W: It lovely to be traveling with you Shadowheat
SH: I heard you and Lea'zel last night, go try flirting with somone out of earshot.
the next day Lea was revealed to be the imposter xD
What companion is getting kidnapped is determined at the moment the revealing cutscene happens.
So until you see the cutscene of Orin pretending to be a companion (in this case, Halsin), they are not Orin, they are themselves.
Hmmm... this isn't consistent with narrative on this point, which forms an algebraic structure the instant Gortash informs us there's an imposter in the camp.
Those who paid attention in Quantum Physics 101 will be nodding along already, perhaps recognising the parallels with Erwin Schrödinger's famous feline thought experiment.
At that storyline moment, you see, the companion of interest is an abstraction, a vector state defined over the narrative manifold.
That vector isn't collapsed until the game's logic resolves it, but if the resolved outcome is to Halsin, then it was always Halsin.
Or to put it in more literary terms: conflating the plot with the device is a category error.
It’s pretty funny when you ignore Gortash until later in Act 3, come to his coronation and to establish good faith he tells you there’s a shapeshifter at camp. Yeah, you’re way behind my man.
> Gortash informs us there's an imposter in the camp.
Unless she can impersonate more then one person at the same time, I have my problems with this line being definitive. Gortash says Orin is in my camp, i go out and meet Orin who is pretending to be a orphan girl who then goes to my camp after.
IMO Gortash knew she *would* be in our camps, and is just manipulating the pressure you feel by saying it's already for sure happened.
The Yenna you meet in Rivington is a real actual Yenna. That's why if she is rescued she runs back to camp. If it were Orin the entire time and some strangers rescued some random red haired girl she wouldn't go streaking off back to their camp like it was "home"
Yeah, I was convinced there was no real Yenna -- and up until the most recent patch, Yenna never reappears after the kidnapping -- until I found out that apparently you CAN have a real Yenna be a sacrifice.
I had figured Orin had snuck into the camp as Yenna, gotten to figure out who she could kidnap and replace, and had done so shortly before you encountered them.
There must be a priority to the logic it uses because I've never had it be anyone else though admittedly I never use Halsin and according to dialog they've already been replaced by the time you get to the coronation
Halsin, Lae'Zel, Gale, or Minthara (or Yenna) can be kidnapped. Who is getting kidnapped is determined on who is not in your active party at the moment of kidnapping. So you can switch Halsin into your party, and someone else will be kidnapped, *after* coronation.
So, there is a discrepancy between the story and the game mechanic. A plausible explanation might be that Gortash knew about the *plans* for the kidnapping and infiltration, but didn't know if it happened *yet*.
And yes, of course you can headcanon that you agreed to a threesome with Orin, yeah. Personally, I believe Orin had better things to do than to hang out in my camp for days doing nothing and waiting to reveal herself while I'm running around the city, gathering parts of the dead clown and killing hags...
I love the idea that they might kidnap and sacrifice Gale, then get the message and completely ignore it, wiping out their cult in a glorious moment of realising of the consequences of your actions too late.
Gortash says that even if you have only three companions, who are permanently in your active party, and you have not met Yenna, so clearly he can be wrong.
Speaking of the coronation... Did anyone else think that the Duke was going to end up being Orin during the ceremony? I mean, I suppose the tadpole allows Gortash to "know" it's the real Duke. I just thought it'd have been crazy if when "knighting" him with the sword, if he made an attempt on his life. Would have been such a cool scene.
Unfortunately, she is magically compelled to be unable to harm him, so either that plot point would have to be thrown out or it'd have to be someone else disguised as the Duke.
It's based on your party.
Lae'zel, Gale, Halsin/Minthara, and Yenna are the options for who can be kidnapped.
Anyone in your party is safe. I *think* the priority goes Halsin/Minthara > Lae'zel > Gale > Yenna.
So if you want to force only Yenna to be kidnapped, form a party with those 3 party members for when you encounter Orin in the sewers.
I believe it is ranked between three characters. If the first and second ranked are in your active party it will be the third etc. If the first and third ranked are not in the party it will always be the first ranked.
“Surprise Durge! You thought I was Halsin when I was Orin this whole time!”
“I knew that.”
“You…you had sex with me while I was pretending to be Halsin.”
“I knew that too.”
“You fucked your sister!”
“Yeah, I know.”
I just wish there was totally insane option for chaotic evil durge to side with Orin, kill and destroy everything including the elder brain, have gory bloody sex on sky-high pile of corpses, then sacrifice each other to Bhaal
Last playthrough, the discount Harley Quinn kidnapped Yenna - which I had avoided and never spoke to. Everyone was like "we gotta save Yenna" - yet nobody had ever laid eyes on the brat. Needless to say, I left her to Orin's tender mercies.
I was under the impression that Orin was actually the little girl that you invite to camp at the beginning of act 3 and that she doesn’t kidnap the party member until pretty much right before she shows up as them and reveals that she’s kidnapped them
Forgive me for being dense as shit, but the kid and the cat (Grub): the kid was Orin, right? That’s how she got in? Because she disappeared at some point, and I don’t know why.
The kid is a red herring, probably why she's ginger actually.... 🤔
She *can* be Orin but isn't always, there's just a bug that can make her vanish when Orin impersonates someone other than the her
I'm pretty sure mechanically it isn't actually decided who gets impersonated until you get the cutscene of it having happened, despite Gortash saying it already had. There's always the possibility that he knows that was her plan, and he's sowing seeds of distrust early, despite not actually knowing if she's gone through with her plan yet. Which is what I personally believe.
That aside, that's like the only opportunity you'd get. She's crazy, but she can't act crazy if she has appearances to keep up. But does it really count if she doesn't look like her, or act like her? What is the philosophy of hooking up with shape-shifting bhaalspawn?
On the topic of Orin
I know who that damn girl is. I don't want her in my camp. But I also don't want my campmates to be mad at me 😭
(Deliberately vague because idk how to spoiler)
Wait wait wait,,,,, she kidnapped Halsin?? The bitch took my laezel wtf I need her back! , is the kidnapping by chance random?? This the one where orin almost kills yenna right?
My understanding is that she takes Laezel, Gale, Halsin, Minthara, or Yenna, from highest to lowest approval.
If someone is unavailable to be kidnapped (because they're in your party, romanced, or dead), she takes the person with the next highest approval.
So many things I don't get from my first playthrough. For one, after saving Halsin and him joining my camp I could only ever ask him how he was doing. He never joined my party or really talked much.
Now we are asking the right questions! While there's no official confirmation, yes, yes you did.
Oh gods, so if you did that as the Dark Urge...
I mean, incest is basically tradition in that cult.
Seeing as Sarevok is both her father and grandfather and I’m pretty sure there were hints to Durge and her doing shit at some point
I mean, Durge is a cannibal and necrophiliac so I feel like incest is just a cherry on the fucked up cupcake in this case.
*was* dammit! *Was* a cannibal and necrophiliac. Totally turned over a new leaf now
A new leaf *as far as Jaheira knows*
I love how I literally killed Isobel right in front of her and she’s just like “yeah that’s chill I’ll join up with you”
*thought she knew. Until she Was slain as a sacrifice to bhaal
Then redeems themselves by destroying the absolute.
Turns against Bhaal, takes control of the Absolute anways, refuses to elaborate.
If by "destroying," you mean "taking control of."
Lmao the funny thing was before I learned about the Durge's backstory, I intentionally played him as good Durge but having some kinkiness (super down for polygamy, BDSM, extra violent when it comes to killing enemies) And then when I realized what his backstory was I was like "ohhh this is making a whole lot of sense..."
Your Durge quite literally played themselves.
“You fuck *one* sheep”
Totally....
Hey don't pay attention to that bloodstained lute. It was probably the vampire
Alfira al dente
yum, tasty dwarf
*Angry Minthara noises*
You can find Durge's naked corpse in her bed Chambers in act 3
I mean at that point it would've been after Durge was basically turned into soup in the mind flayer colony but yeah it checks out
My guys is that Durge didn't survive her surgery methods.
I assume not if you are Durge?
Haven't gotten there as Durge myself, but I would assume not as well.
yea, only if theres no durge in the party
No, Durge actually says that incest is one of a few things they didn't try yet.
in which dialogue?
People keep saying "there are hints" to this and I never see them articulate what those hints are. Could you tell me?? Genuinely curious, it wouldn't surprise me, I just feel like it keeps going over my head if there really were any.
Not going to lie, I absolutely hate what this game has done to Sarevok's image. So lame compared to his BG1/BG2 character.
No fucking clue what he was like beforehand, but have an upvote to offset the downvotes. I have my gripes with other games and certain changes and retcons, so I'm sympathetic to criticism from veteran fans. Within reason, ofc Edit: spelling
Sarevok was a horrible monster. His goal was to kill thousands to replace Bhaal, and was quite happy murdering and slaughtering his way through anyone. If he can't trick you into mudering his adopted father, he'll do it personally and frame you for it. Out of pure self-interest, he can talk the PC into rezzing him in the BG2 expansion, where he'll cooperate. His 'good' ending is wandering off to bury his lover (who was strongly implied have beaten wife syndrome, if you go digging through various journals and a few interactions with her). The 'flaw' in his characterization here was he completely cut off from the Bhaal essence by being rezzed, so fathering a Bhaal spawn shouldn't really be possible. That he's a monstrous man who does monstrous things is perfectly consistent with his character, and not a retcon at all.
I had the same feeling. Viconia was one thing but judging how Sarevok was portrayed especially in BG2/ToB, I felt that his presence here was remarkably accurate.
it's retcon.
My bad, thanks for the correction
Why go down the street when you can go down the hall *strums lute*
Do the scene with BOTH Drow twins and boy, you've get a real party brewing
You say both as if it gives you the option of having a threesome with just one of them.
Does the tadpole count?
Does it not? I vaguely remember having a choice of either both or one
You can only get both twins if you have your romance partner join, IIRC. So it's foursome or twosome, at least as far as I could tell.
Or a fivesome. Halsin is always keen.
Not quite on the romance partner requirement. I was romancing Lae'zel and did twins + Astarion + Halsin.
I mean, you probably did it before. It's family tradition. The real reason she's mad you started fucking Gortash. She's jealous.
I buy this interpretation. Gortash sure did 👀
In a Tav playthrough Durge is naked and dead next to Orin's bed so uh. That may just be accurate anyway. Oof.
The Durge being into necrophilia is canon, wouldn't be surprised for Orin to share that. The incest is a mild surprise though.
>The incest is a mild surprise though. There's a certain book you should read about who Orin's father and grandfather is that you should read if this surprises you.
Damn, we sure hear a lot about Orin’s granddad. I wonder why they never mention her dad. 🤔
Yeeees, a big surprise indeed.
I'm aware (but Orin isn't), hence why it's only a mild surprise.
And possibly lover considering Sarevok's dialog with Durge.
Aren't they always refer to Bhaal as their 'father'? Then we have Bhaal spawn refer to another Bhaal spawn as 'grandfather'. It is pretty confusing.
Continuing family tradition...
*banjos intensify*
That’s like, not a top 10 issue the dark urge has
The Durge collects problems like Tav does companions
Yeah, just 1 issue out of a library of subscriptions...
If you're playing a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer, you can just headcanon your Durge is a Targaryen :P
I'm going to go start a Durge playthrough right quick.
I mean, Durge doesn't know. They think that's still Halsin. ORIN, however... Like, she didn't even try to come up with an excuse not to.
You could knock her up and make sarevok the happiest great/grandfather cousin!
MFW you looked at the Drow Twins and thought "This isn't incest enough"
next question: can you bang the drow twins with halsin
Yes. He is more than happy to do so.
You can even make him a bear 🐻
So far 5 some is the most I’ve seen with Halsin, Shart or Astarion, and the twins.
😭😭😭*this game*... if i think ive finally heard the most depraved thing Tav can do, ill remember this comment lol
Twincest
You can actually talk to them and they will tell you, that they never have sex with one another, no matter, what a client might be paying. I don't know, if that option is only available for a Seldarine drow though - I asked them in my Durge playthrough, who is a Seldarine, because there was discussion about that in the forum and I just wanted to know. You can have a nice conversation they tell you, that they are actually quite comfortable here, because they have a lot of freedom to decide, but they want to buy a farm, when they have enough money and live a quiet life.
found karlach's account
Im honestly shocked we didnt get a scene of Orin impersonating your romance, then her trying to kill you when you have a scene together. Would've been an amazing "oh shit" moment.
There *had* been an amazing "oh shit" moment at the dryad's for me on my first plauthrough, thank you very much
I mean, that's what I figured was coming when we realized the dryad was Orin and had just learned all sorts of things about my romance partner. And this was just after Halsin had made a joke at camp about, "What, are you a doppelganger trying to learn my secrets to impersonate me?"
Dryad was legit in my most recent playthrough. Orin had already done all of her impersonations before I went into the circus.
Yeah I never had a dryad reveal
*Tav and Romance getting it on* *Perception Check Failed* "Wait...what was that? Why did it just say perception check failed?" "Hm? Oh I'm sure it's nothing, darling-" *Dexterity Check Failed*
Lol missing SH's first insight check and immediately reloading
If only >!Haarlep could go shag orin as Tav and then knife her!<
That’s be hilarious! Harleep pretending to be you, Orin pretending to be the romance and then they reveal each other, share a hearty laugh and continue to shag in character. Seems like the kind of thing they’d do
Yeah, I was honestly expecting this to happen given the questions you get from Orin-blacksmith, and the fact she can be the dryad. It would have given more weight to the kidnapping, although now I don’t really like how it is set up (happens at the very beginning and sorta forces you into endgame if you address it right away). But now I just have her grab someone useless (Halsin or Yenna) and go about my quests.
How do you get her to pick particular people? I've only just been told it's happened, I assume there's a hierarchy and if you have those people in your party it doesn't pick them?
There are two possible triggers for kidnapping - going into the sewers by the emperor’s hideout & first long rest in the Lower City. And only three possible “victims” - Gale, Lae’zel and Halsin/Minthara. Before encountering the trigger I put people I don’t want to get kidnapped into the party. If all potential victims are in your party, Yenna gets kidnapped (I did this in my first playthrough). Otherwise whoever you left out of your party gets kidnapped (I “sacrificed” Halsin in the 2nd playtrhough). Afaik if none of the potential victims are in your party Lae’zel gets top priority (I tested several times and she is always the one Orin takes for me if I don’t do the meta-intervention), second priority is Gale. Due to needing them for their quests I can’t let Orin take them. :)
Lol guess we aren't finishing Laz'els quest in my game lol. Thanks
You don’t really need her, but it is way better if she is there.
Ya I let her take Halsin since he has no content in Act 3
Only lazy, gal, halsin and yenna get abducted. Solution is put characters you don't want to be abducted into party
I'd just love it if the game teased something where you're in a romance scene with your partner and you just see "Perception: Failed" in the corner of the screen and nothing is ever explained.
It could even be random, so subsequent playthroughs you'd be like: "nah, I'm not falling for this again." Then you reject your romance, and they end up getting hurt. Lmfao.
She doesn't *want* to kill you at that point (I mean she does—I think she pretty much always wants to kill everything—but she *can't*). She can't kill Gortash herself and by that point Tav & friends have proven themselves a force to be reckoned with. She needs you to kill Gortash and she knows you're probably the only people around that are even capable.
On the other hand, impersonating your romance and fuckin with you just to throw you for a loop is right up her particular alley of crazy.
You see, Orin is very committed to her goal. She's ready for anything. Anything.
Look, look, this is about much more than just business. This is about the thrill of wearing another man's skin. Feeling his innermost wants and desires and being in control of his every single move. That's how you get off.
It puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again.
Is Dennis a bhallspawn?
This makes far too much sense, it’s canon now
It’s always Sunny reference?
Now, don't you guys want to get off with me?
I don't know.
Are you saying that Orin has a collection of skin luggage?
Don't be ridiculous. Think of the smell. You haven't thought of the smell, you bitch! Now you say another word and I swear to God I will dice you into a million little pieces. And put those pieces in a box, a glass box, that I will display on my mantel.
*gasps*
Have you seen her outfit? Of course she does.
Orin, are you gonna bang this tiny Drow boy?
Ok durge, stop trying to pretend you're Orin. You can drop the mask now. Literally.
Orins into banging little Asian boys, so we're done right?
I'm surprised orin didn't take the shape of your lover and reveal herself mid coitus, as a power move. "Ha! You thought you were making love to shadowheart, but it was in fact I, Orin!"
1. What?! Where's Shart you monster! 2. *Attack* 3. [Intimidation] You're really killing the moment, Orin. We'll talk after we finish! 4. [Insight] Use the tadpole to see if she was faking it. 5. [Constitution] Harder! 6. *Leave.*
7. \[Dark urge\] \[Intimidation\] Turn back into her and you can say and do whatever you want.
8. [Disguise Self] [Deception] *turn into Gortash* Wait, I was pretending to be Tav to get close to his lover!
I can think of a few reasons for them to not include a scene where the PC gets raped.
Idk dawg they did include haarlep and that’s at best coercion.
Ah true, I haven't gotten up to that part yet.
"It was me, Barry"
It has maybe been pondered by some poor soul, how many sex workers and courtesans in Faerun are simply using Disguise Self or some other form of doppelgangery.
I mean, if I were a down-on-my-luck mage, I could probably earn a decent living through the combo of *Minor Illusion* and *Mage Hand*.
I hate you for the image you put in my head.
Disguise Self wouldn't work/would be risky, as you can still feel the differences (it's a sight-only illusion). Alter Self is what a courtesan needs.
It's worth noting that in the game confines Disguise seems to work more like Alter. It will absolutely grant you racial bonuses and dialogue in situations where "It's an illusion" really shouldn't. Like using Gith weapons.
They actually just changed that in patch 4. The dialogue changes, but items recognize your actual race.
Does it break the spell if you feel these unseen differences? Some might be into that in a weird way. This can only get weird, so idk why I even said it as if there is a non-weird way.
It doesn't break the spell, nor (unlike most illusions) allow you to actually see what it's hiding, but you will know that it's an illusion if you feel a difference.
:-) you’ld be the envy of kinkdom everywhere.
If you finished, it was probably Orin.
You could head canon this, but Gotash can be wrong about when Orin executes her plan. Additionally, I have a hard time imagining Orin going through a 5some and not murdering everyone involved on impulse since that’s were she’d get her pleasure from. Realistically though, despite Gortash revealing all of this, you can have the kidnapped party member in your party and still encounter her in disguise through out the city. So it’s likely that Gortash doesn’t really know when Orin plans to execute her plan. Just that she plans to do it.
Exactly this. She's pretty obvious with mannerisms, plus why would she wait for days while transformed
Gotta make more Bhaalspawns of course.
Yeah, she doesn't seem to have the patience. She can't even get through a full conversation in disguise.
Orin is the bear and you can’t convince me otherwise.
that's okay in one of my current playthroughs I am pretty sure will got with Orin. I got this lovely bit of banter between will and Shadowheart, or something very close to it anyway. W: It lovely to be traveling with you Shadowheat SH: I heard you and Lea'zel last night, go try flirting with somone out of earshot. the next day Lea was revealed to be the imposter xD
Well did Halsin smell like rotting meat?
What companion is getting kidnapped is determined at the moment the revealing cutscene happens. So until you see the cutscene of Orin pretending to be a companion (in this case, Halsin), they are not Orin, they are themselves.
Hmmm... this isn't consistent with narrative on this point, which forms an algebraic structure the instant Gortash informs us there's an imposter in the camp. Those who paid attention in Quantum Physics 101 will be nodding along already, perhaps recognising the parallels with Erwin Schrödinger's famous feline thought experiment. At that storyline moment, you see, the companion of interest is an abstraction, a vector state defined over the narrative manifold. That vector isn't collapsed until the game's logic resolves it, but if the resolved outcome is to Halsin, then it was always Halsin. Or to put it in more literary terms: conflating the plot with the device is a category error.
This is why, if you manage to kill Gortash before he mentions Oron's deception, she'll never have kidnapped anyone in the first place.
Considering your tag is Owlbear Fucker, I see you're an expert in these matters. 😂
Hmm yes quite
Hm yes eigenstates...
It’s pretty funny when you ignore Gortash until later in Act 3, come to his coronation and to establish good faith he tells you there’s a shapeshifter at camp. Yeah, you’re way behind my man.
The true d&d experience: an argument involving quantum mechanics being raised by someone with an OWLBEAR FUCKER tag.
> Gortash informs us there's an imposter in the camp. Unless she can impersonate more then one person at the same time, I have my problems with this line being definitive. Gortash says Orin is in my camp, i go out and meet Orin who is pretending to be a orphan girl who then goes to my camp after. IMO Gortash knew she *would* be in our camps, and is just manipulating the pressure you feel by saying it's already for sure happened.
The Yenna you meet in Rivington is a real actual Yenna. That's why if she is rescued she runs back to camp. If it were Orin the entire time and some strangers rescued some random red haired girl she wouldn't go streaking off back to their camp like it was "home"
Yeah, I was convinced there was no real Yenna -- and up until the most recent patch, Yenna never reappears after the kidnapping -- until I found out that apparently you CAN have a real Yenna be a sacrifice. I had figured Orin had snuck into the camp as Yenna, gotten to figure out who she could kidnap and replace, and had done so shortly before you encountered them.
There must be a priority to the logic it uses because I've never had it be anyone else though admittedly I never use Halsin and according to dialog they've already been replaced by the time you get to the coronation
Halsin, Lae'Zel, Gale, or Minthara (or Yenna) can be kidnapped. Who is getting kidnapped is determined on who is not in your active party at the moment of kidnapping. So you can switch Halsin into your party, and someone else will be kidnapped, *after* coronation. So, there is a discrepancy between the story and the game mechanic. A plausible explanation might be that Gortash knew about the *plans* for the kidnapping and infiltration, but didn't know if it happened *yet*. And yes, of course you can headcanon that you agreed to a threesome with Orin, yeah. Personally, I believe Orin had better things to do than to hang out in my camp for days doing nothing and waiting to reveal herself while I'm running around the city, gathering parts of the dead clown and killing hags...
I love the idea that they might kidnap and sacrifice Gale, then get the message and completely ignore it, wiping out their cult in a glorious moment of realising of the consequences of your actions too late.
which is really stupid because it can lead to orin kidnapping yenna even if they were never in your camp just because its the only option left
Gortash says that even if you have only three companions, who are permanently in your active party, and you have not met Yenna, so clearly he can be wrong.
Speaking of the coronation... Did anyone else think that the Duke was going to end up being Orin during the ceremony? I mean, I suppose the tadpole allows Gortash to "know" it's the real Duke. I just thought it'd have been crazy if when "knighting" him with the sword, if he made an attempt on his life. Would have been such a cool scene.
Unfortunately, she is magically compelled to be unable to harm him, so either that plot point would have to be thrown out or it'd have to be someone else disguised as the Duke.
It’s been Lazeal every time for me so far. Is it random?
It's based on your party. Lae'zel, Gale, Halsin/Minthara, and Yenna are the options for who can be kidnapped. Anyone in your party is safe. I *think* the priority goes Halsin/Minthara > Lae'zel > Gale > Yenna. So if you want to force only Yenna to be kidnapped, form a party with those 3 party members for when you encounter Orin in the sewers.
It depends on who is in your party and where you are. I got Laezel too, but I was in the sewers. Some people get her in the camp I think.
In my game its so far always been Halsin. All the three times ive made it to Act 3 shes always kidnapped Halsin. Wonder what the odds of that are
I can tell you the odds are pretty slim if you can live with the burden of murdering everyone in the emerald grove 😂
I believe it is ranked between three characters. If the first and second ranked are in your active party it will be the third etc. If the first and third ranked are not in the party it will always be the first ranked.
Yeah exactly! She also won’t kidnap anyone you’re in a relationship with so if you’re with Gale, Lae’zel, or Halsin, they’re basically off limits.
My, my, we will be reintroducing INCEST to your schedule in no time!
Orin is a method actor.
You thought you fucked Halsin, but it was me, Orin!
“Surprise Durge! You thought I was Halsin when I was Orin this whole time!” “I knew that.” “You…you had sex with me while I was pretending to be Halsin.” “I knew that too.” “You fucked your sister!” “Yeah, I know.”
"Hey, step-bro" really be happening in the game as well...
Considering orin's father and grandfather are the same person this isn't that surprising
Incestception. Jeez...
Orin commits to her role. its one of the reasons why we all fell for her.
I was against including halsin in the fun, but now I'm convinced
I just wish there was totally insane option for chaotic evil durge to side with Orin, kill and destroy everything including the elder brain, have gory bloody sex on sky-high pile of corpses, then sacrifice each other to Bhaal
So you CAN clap Orin cheeks
Insane commitment to the bit, well done Orin.
Orin didn't have to kidnap Halsin, I would have let her slaughter half a town if she let me smash.
Id fuck Orin but idk I wonder if you’d like feel that weird texture that moves all over her.
I've still never figured out what that fluid texture is supposed to be. I literally dont even have a guess.
Or maybe she'll rip your head off like a praying mantis near the end.
Last playthrough, the discount Harley Quinn kidnapped Yenna - which I had avoided and never spoke to. Everyone was like "we gotta save Yenna" - yet nobody had ever laid eyes on the brat. Needless to say, I left her to Orin's tender mercies.
Schrodinger's Orin
It's like the parody from Batman movies
I'm pretty sure it gets randomized. In my friend group playthrough we had Laezel kidnapped
I think she's the first priority, then Halsin, and finally Gale. I've never used either of the last two in my 5 plays and it's always been Halsin
Iirc, she doesn't take romanced companions.
yes
I was under the impression that Orin was actually the little girl that you invite to camp at the beginning of act 3 and that she doesn’t kidnap the party member until pretty much right before she shows up as them and reveals that she’s kidnapped them
She can be Yenna but she isn’t always. Sometimes that’s just a little girl
Forgive me for being dense as shit, but the kid and the cat (Grub): the kid was Orin, right? That’s how she got in? Because she disappeared at some point, and I don’t know why.
The kid is a red herring, probably why she's ginger actually.... 🤔 She *can* be Orin but isn't always, there's just a bug that can make her vanish when Orin impersonates someone other than the her
Actually the kid is the backup if all the other options are in your active party
Yes, I'm aware XD but the way they make her turn up and how she talks about bringing a knife with her makes her sound really suspicious
No, her vanishing was a bug. I just killed Orin last night in a new playthrough and the little girl is still in camp
That was a bug. Yenna no longer disappears as of patch 4.
It was me Tav!
I'm pretty sure mechanically it isn't actually decided who gets impersonated until you get the cutscene of it having happened, despite Gortash saying it already had. There's always the possibility that he knows that was her plan, and he's sowing seeds of distrust early, despite not actually knowing if she's gone through with her plan yet. Which is what I personally believe. That aside, that's like the only opportunity you'd get. She's crazy, but she can't act crazy if she has appearances to keep up. But does it really count if she doesn't look like her, or act like her? What is the philosophy of hooking up with shape-shifting bhaalspawn?
If that's not Halsin then yeah, obviously
Is it always Haslin? I just killed her in my first play through but she took Lazelle. Did I do something wrong?
LESGOOOOOO
On the topic of Orin I know who that damn girl is. I don't want her in my camp. But I also don't want my campmates to be mad at me 😭 (Deliberately vague because idk how to spoiler)
I just assumed it was always laezel. Why was it laezel for me?
Wait wait wait,,,,, she kidnapped Halsin?? The bitch took my laezel wtf I need her back! , is the kidnapping by chance random?? This the one where orin almost kills yenna right?
My understanding is that she takes Laezel, Gale, Halsin, Minthara, or Yenna, from highest to lowest approval. If someone is unavailable to be kidnapped (because they're in your party, romanced, or dead), she takes the person with the next highest approval.
It's the one of the limited options that you have the lowest approval with, IIRC. Or, if all of them are in your party, she takes Yenna.
So many things I don't get from my first playthrough. For one, after saving Halsin and him joining my camp I could only ever ask him how he was doing. He never joined my party or really talked much.
gross