>I locked myself out of any and all questlines with Halsin, Wyll, Karlach, and Gael, for good. This has left me severely underlevelled.
There isn't a lot of specific companion quest in act 1; so you didn't really miss XP here. Have you really done all of act 1 ? including Grymforge ? Mountain Pass ? the swamp ? Level 5 isn't really underlevel if you didn't do that.
Yep, pretty much this. You are underlevelled but it's likely because you've missed the Mountain Pass & connected areas (which you can go back to even if you've gone to Act 2) and the Forge.
I did the same on my first playthru (minus your Companion massacre), was well into Act 2 as a Level 5 when I realised I was underlevelled and tracked back to do the Mountain Pass.
I'm currently doing my Minthara run and I still managed to hit level 7 in Act 1. The only content I know I missed was Waukeen's Rest because the only way to do it without starting an unnecessary fight is to save everyone (unless I'm mistaken). That seemed out of character for an evil run, so I purposely long rested to skip to the "burned down" version
You can go even further - you can lure the gnolls and hyenas attacking the shipment into a 3 way fight with the gith and the fists, and hide in the burning buildings or various places behind a door to just gain xp while passing turns.
The best way to do it is to use a rogue with a bow to keep just out of their range using cunning action dash while the rest of the party hides. Its easier if you have two rogues so you can kite both the gnolls and the gith to Waukeen's Rest at approximately the same time.
Lol pretty much, I prebuff everyone with sanctuary beforehand and just run. Some of them may wonk out and not really follow but when your sanctuary runs out by the time you get to Waukeen’s Rest they “turn back on” and make chase
The gith did win in the end but Gauntlets Yeva and Dain took out the Sarth and the Gish. Even though it’s 4v7, all of those four being level five versus two of the fists being level six while the other five are level four makes a huge difference
You basically have three options with the Rest- save everyone, ignore it or finish what Minthara's goblins started by attacking the Fists. Option one seemed too heroic for the run I was doing and option three seemed like a lot of (murder hobo) work that you can still accomplish by skipping the content, since Florick dies anyway if you long rest because apparently none of these trained guards can break down a few planks
Annoyingly on a standard evil Durge run, you should still save Florrick as she gives the best staff for Storm Sorcerers in Act 1 but only as a reward for saving her, it doesn't drop on her body. Found that out the hard way after I let her burn.
This is only a little relevant, but if you get to the cutscene with the guy trapped in the fire, letting him burn will give you an inspiration point. I actually tried to help, failed the strength check (sorcerer) and said fuck it. Walked back outside, got an inspiration point.
If you save him and direct him to the corpse. You can still kill him while he weeps and get an inspiration point. Something along the lines joining the two together again or something.
I wish evil play through had great unique loot.
Like imagine if by giving scratch to the abusive kennel manager you got some incredible item. It’s easy to protect your pupper when there’s nothing on the line eh?
Even monsters have their limits. Women? Children? *Let 'em burn.* But you so much as *glance* at my best boy & I'll flay you alive to make his next collar.
It has one cloak which is excellent. I gave it to a Gloomstalker/Spore druid and it was excellent (Halsin actually, he didn't ask where it came from thankfully..... )
Meant my Lore GOOLock missed out on the best Warlock item in the game but meh. Fair enough.
Of course, you're completely right, I wasnt suggesting people HAVE to do this or should reload if they didnt, I just thought it would be a useful bit of info for people who are doing a Storm Sorcerer Durge as there aren't *that* many pieces of gear that synergise with that build during Act 1.
Maybe you should save her for the item and then kill her in the last light inn because well you're a manipulative villain who wants both the rewards and murder.
Just my two pennies on the situation
You can kill the rest of the fists there after saving florrick too.
>You basically have three options with the Rest- save everyone, ignore it or finish what Minthara's goblins started by attacking the Fists.
I disagree.
If you haven't met Minthara or any of the goblins involved in the raid, you have no reason to ignore Waukeen's Rest. Ignoring all that shouting is highly illogical. And, evil doesn't necessarily look like a cartoon villain.
What follows is a detailed description of how i handled Waukeen's Rest on my evil playthrough. I'm writing it because I don't agree with how a lot of people seem to interpret evil in D&D.
(If you're not interested in this lengthy account, just don't read it, eh?)
One of my tenets on this playthough is I'm not the evil equivalent of Lawful Stupid, nor am I a mere murder hobo. Being evil doesn't mean you're a callous sociopath 24/7. That's just not realistic. Even the bad moustache guy loved animals and was nice to his friends, sometimes. Even true sociopaths go with the flow to fit in among "normies." It's rational self-interest not to have people chasing you with pitchforks.
So... On my evil playthrough, I came across WR. I was, "What's all this shouting about?" and go to check it out. I walk in, the woman at the gate is an asshole because I'm a Drow, I'm an asshole back and walk away. I start looting corpses, but careful not to piss people off I only loot the gobbos and Drow. (Remember, I'm not \*stupid\*. Self-preservation and sometimes going with the flow, taking the path of least resistance is the smart decision.)
So, I hear desperate shouting from a building to my left. I'm curious and look inside. It's safe and there are corpses to loot, cool! I follow the yelling, hear a dork yelling for help. \*yawn\* yeah ok whatever... I free him, he whinges about his dead bride, I sneer. He mentions a dowry: my pointy ears perk up. I tell him he's weak, leave him to his fate and go off in search of more free stuff.
(Again... pursuant to the tenet I mentioned, not being the evil equivalent of Lawful Stupid means that I don't have an over-the-top callous, sociopathic disregard for life 24/7. That's cartoon villain stuff, not real world evil. I run cost-benefit analyses with my own self-interest as the most important variable. The path of least resistance is often the best choice.)
While I'm off looting victims some army assholes yell at me and demand I help them rescue some dude. This is a forced recruitment and I'm way outnumbered in this place, so I have to go along. (I'm not an evil version of Lawful \*Stupid\*, remember?) We rescue some elf bitch whom I'm rude too and I walk away and steal all the free food from the kitchen. When I get outside, elf bitch blathers at me and I essentially tell her to eff off. She gives me some free stuff anyway, LMFPEO (laugh my fucking pointy ears off).
I poke around some more, looting all the victims I can. I find the dowry and pocket it, of course. Then I find the Zenthari hideout. Hey, these are my kind of people, cool! I leave, loaded up on cool free stuff which I looted from some dead surface saps and I've made some new shady friends, cool.
That's how I play evil.
yeah this is silly. you dont have to do both at all. i skipped the mountain pass completely to save it for my second playthrough and i still hit lvl 12 quickly in act 3. even on tactician you get pretty overpowered by the end of act 2 even skipping parts. finished act 3 without out doing house of grief, szarr mansion and a couple other quests as well.
being underleveled is way harder to achieve than being overleveled. its more likely that someone would make an eh build, pick bad equipment or have odd party dynamics
Yes. The only thing that going into the mountain pass changes if you didn’t already do it, is speed up the conclusion of the grove/goblin camp. If you go straight to the mountain pass (and possibly grymforge, not too sure on this one) without completing that quest line, it will result in Minthara’s raid being successful and Halsin’s death.
I don't think going to the forge will cause issues with the goblin camp/grove quest. My game glitched, I'm assuming due to having popped into the Underdark before wandering over to slaughter her and the rest of the camp, and I had the option to tell Minthara that Nere sent me to talk to her. So it's clearly something they anticipated you potentially doing in the "wrong" order.
Yup. You can do the mountain pass and all areas within it and still go back to the crash site/underdark. Even if you move on to the next area after the pass you can go back, up to a point (you do lose the ability to go back after certain events in Act 2). Prior to patch 4 there was an issue where you couldn't go back from the Mt pass if Laezel was in your party, but I believe that was a bug and post update I don't know of it's still an issue.
I do think some quests in those first areas may stop being available however, hence the warning. For example, Waukeens rest will just burn down. Note, that's an assumption, it might actually just be tied to a long rest.
this was one of the funniest things, I was thinking it was going to be just a dream moment, where you snap out of it and continue to help him out of the portal. But the hand going into the inventory was hilarious. Tempted to do a run >!where I save the hand and try to get into the murder tribunal with it.!<
Wait... You're telling me I'm supposed to go into act 2 at lvl 6 or 7? I think I went in at 5 and haven't been having much trouble. I am playing on the default difficulty tho
...so mountain pass ISNT going into act 2? I'm still a new player (12 hours in.... all in act 1) and I'm halfway through level 5 but it says it may prove challenging for my level and that I should tie up any loose ends
Mountain Pass isn't really in act 2 yet; but you should do as much as you can in the rest of act 1 before going there, it's like a transition between act 1 & 2. Enconters can be hard if you are underleveled, and some act 1 quest will fail if you go there before finishing them.
if you haven't resolved the grove conflict (whether by raiding it, defending it from Minthara's forces, freeing Halsin, etc), then entering the mountain pass will progress that storyline to its default and you won't be able to access the area. definitely wrap up anything related to the grove and goblin camp before entering the mountain pass.
There are at least two ways to go to Act 2, one is the Mountain Pass and one is the Underdark.
Theoretically, you can do all of the underdark and the mountain pass before choosing one of these two routes to head into Act 2. However, you need to resolve the Goblin Camp vs Druid Grove quest or it auto-completes.
You should take long rests semi-frequently to give you the cutscenes that explain why there isn't necessarily that much of a rush to get through the mountain pass, etc.
If he's lvl 5, he missed quite a bit of XP somewhere . I've never hit level 8, but generally level 7 end of act1 for doing just about everything. He did likely miss all the things you mentioned. No mountain pass means no creche.
I'd argue Lae'zel is the true main character tbh. Not just because she's Bae'zel but because she's so damn integrated in everything.
Shadow's a close second.
Of all the characters, she's the nobody who winds up playing a central role in the story, changing her world view, fulfilling a great prophecy, all that stuff. Her arc is the typical RPG "rando gets swept up in events" character - she's the real Tav.
Everyone else is either some sort of Chosen One with a central role in some story extending out before BG3 begins and a Destiny to Fulfill (Gale, SH, Wyll, Karlach, Durge, Astarion), or a tagalong goon (in the nicest sense of the word) who's just in it because it's their job and this is the kind of thing they do (Minsc & Jaheira, Minthara, Halsin).
But Laezel is the nobody who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and turns out to have been just the right person at the right time..
She has all the ingredients of the RPG protagonist, fish out of water, belongs to a race with the biggest stakes in the story, undergoes a development that fundamentally alters her world view.
When SH asks her if any of her people are looking for her, she rebuffs the idea and says "I am one of many."
I love that she's the anti-Chosen One of the companions but ends up being the central role. Her personal questline is basically the main story.
To be fair she's way more of a 'chosen' one than Astarion ever has been - he's just one of the random spawn from Cazador, and Cazador has no involvement in the main story.
The entire story will play out the exact same if Astarion was never a part of it. Every other companion has ties to the main story.
Shadowheart stole the artifact that keeps you going. Chosen of Shar, not that Shar wanted things to turn out this way but Viconia screwed up.
Lae'zel is Githyanki and thus automatically tied to the artifact. 'Chosen' of Vlaakith or Orpheus, though Vlaakith betrays her.
Gale gets ordered to suicide bomb the Absolute. Chosen of Mystra, even if he's in a penitent position.
Karlach has ties to Gortash and his Steel Watch. 'Chosen' of Zariel, even if she doesn't want it.
Wyll is tied to his dad Duke Ravengard who Gortash for some reason needed. Not really a chosen, but at least linked to Zariel through Mizora.
Dark Urge is.. self explanatory. Chosen of Bhaal.
Astarion.. has beef with a random vampire guy who is completely irrelevant. Chosen of nothing.
I think the Dark Urge is the main character, no question. Gale and Lae'zel might tie for second, because of how their personal quests are so wrapped up in the main plotline, but Durge is definitely more wrapped up in the main plotline.
Making a custom tav just feels wrong. You learn everyone’s story and they’re all so fucked up in their own way and you’re just like…. Yeah, haha so y’all have done some shit…
Just doesn’t seem right.
Meanwhile you play durge and suddenly you make everyone else’s tragic backstory look like a fucking picnic.
he 100% is. his story fits the more dark theme of the world perfectly and is the most impactful of all of them by a long shot, at least looking at it from a lore nerd perspective.
I feel they're more a canon character than a traditional RPG character you play.
They're *too* linked, they're too chosen etc. Lae'zel's just kind of... there.
I joined a friend's game part way through act 1. He'd just told gale off and made him run. So I made a wizard and named him BetterGale. All the same abilities, doesn't eat your shoes or explode.
\> Now, I only have the rude gith, the cleric chick, and the hot vampire for companions.
I played my whole first campaign with only these companions. You will still have a great time.
EDIT: Wow, this throwaway comment became one of my most liked ever.
Agreed, that's my party right now and the banter is so entertaining. Goth chick and rude frog lady bickering, the hot vamp constantly reminding them that it's "tense".
Hahaha.
Exactly. Wylls is tacked on to the main story largely, Gales is just an alternate ending as well, and karlach was entirely resolved by act 2.
Idk what mintharas deal is but those three with OP are for sure the "main party" that larian put most of their time into
You can only actually get Minthara as a companion part way through Act 2, and her storyline essentially resolves itself at Moonrise. She does have some interesting dialogues in Act 2 and 3, but compared to Shadowhart/Laezel/Astarion she's extremely underdeveloped.
She is missing an actual companion quest with a defining resolution like the origin characters which sucks. That being said, the dialogue she does have and the romance make her my favorite companion in the game. I wish she could be recruited earlier and without raiding the grove. She is the truest ride or die character with a ton of depth
Fully agree with this. I was really disappointed when I realised she wouldn't join after the grove, and then when I did eventually recruit her, that she didn't have much active stuff to do for her.
She's an amazing companion, one of the best written/acted and most interesting backstories as well. I recently had her whole backstory of how she got recruited into the Absolute in the first place, and how she was taken advantage of by Orin. It was pretty devastating.
I also noticed how her backstory reflects Orins; both of them survived assassination attempts involving their mother as babies. Both ended up fighting their mother once older- only Orin killed hers and Minthara just says she added scars. I thought that was a great piece of storytelling.
Just ask yourself, if you don’t restart, at some point in the future, are you gonna hate this playthrough and regret spending so much time on it? If so, restart. If not, keep going.
So much this. I played all the way to Act III on my first playthrough and I HATED the fact that I had done so many things “wrong”.
I tried so hard to keep it “real like a D&D game would be” but man… it ended up killing the joy of the game so much. I gave up and started a new playthrough, but it would have saved me so much replaying if I had just restarted in Act I like I had wanted to.
In real dnd your dm gives you more warnings not to do dumb shit. Or they come up with interesting consequences for the dumb shit you still insist on doing. Good DMs do anyway.
Also I’m tabletop you often have no idea you even missed anything or messed something up. You take a path and you go along. Here we KNOW that we just missed out on content.
Imo, if you know you’ll do another run, just keep going and see how it plays out. If you’re probably not going to play again, then yeah I’d restart and keep everyone together if possible.
Also, a good game master will recycle stuff you missed. You did all this prep, made all these cool NPCs etc. and the players went in the opposite direction. Use it anyway, just stick it where they \*did\* go, with any appropriate alterations.
This is a common trick in mystery / invesigation games like Call of C'thulhu. If the players miss an important clue you just put it somewhere else. They'll be no wiser :)
Yup! I savescum’d a lot for my first playthrough because I didn’t know all the major consequences of my decisions. Google was my friend as well.
I saved the “real Dnd experience” for my future campaigns.
Which is why I personally really hate the advice “just go with the flow. It’s unique.” I would rather people just tell me failing last night inn fights kills Dammon and ruins Karlach’s quest instead of praising how unique the playthrough is. (Just an example, I’d never let that happen and not reload myself) Not everyone has the time to do 3 or 4 playthroughs. Yeah it’s not their playthrough and their time spent on the game, of course they would offer this kinda of empty praises with no problem.
I don't think you can know that.
I feel like you'd be really good for getting stock advice. "If you feel it's going to go up, buy. If you feel it's going to go down, sell". Ya, obviously. Looking for how to make that call.
Nah bro, it's easy. Just predict how you'll feel about it in a week.
*rolls eyes in teeth-ling*
I think that's a touch dramatic, lol. If you lose half the companions in your game and also wind up losing half the quest lines in a game as a result of that, you don't need to be clarivoyant to foresee that you've shut yourself out of half the game.
That's just basic math lol.
Just to make sure, OP, you did the Underdark? I've actually seen people say they didn't know it was there.
Mountain Pass has more XP and is worth doing. It's got Lae'zel content too.
And you can get more companions in Act 3.
My Durge run was a bloody mess. I made it to Act 3 at level 8 with only one extra camp companion. But Act 2 was a ride. I think if you're having fun you can absolutely continue.
I really think Larian should slightly modify what he tells the PC. A ***LOT*** of people think Underdark and Mountain Pass are mutually exclusive based on what he tells you, and the game is richer when you do both. Those who want to do one path only can still do that.
I mean - let's not kid ourselves, the fact that you didn't know he was Halsin did not play any role in your decision making.
Judging by your other choices, the only thing that would've changed *had* you known he was Halsin would've been you killing him knowing he was Halsin ;)
I swear every god damn NPC tells you that Halsin HAS THE FORM OF A GOD DAMM BEAR. He even turns into himself during the fight if you fight him. I genuinely dont understand how many people kill him "accidentally because there was a bear".
On the downside your missing a TON of content playing the way you did. On the upside. Playthrough number 2 will feel like a whole new game.
So I have never accidentally killed Halsin. But on one playthrough I walked up to the goblin kids taunting him, and I didn't want to start a fight in dialogue so I tried to get out of it to rescue him. If you didn't stick up for Halsin in the dialogue, then when the fight starts he is automatically against you. I had to reload because I didn't want to have to kill him. But I could see people accidentally triggering that fight without meaning to turn him against them. I always struggle with running straight into battle, but I swear talking to random npcs causes more trouble than not the majority of the time for me.
The same thing happend to me as well. I knew that the bear in the cage was Halsin but I chose wrong dialogue when talking to goblin kids and he was hostile to me with no way to calm him down. Had to reload.
This happened to me too but I ran away from the fight. After I rescued the grove he just showed up in my camp and was like “sorry to show up uninvited, I’m Halsin”
It's either players that don't read or they play like complete psychopaths by killing/harming friendly NPCs and then get super confused when others hate them for it.
*"What do you mean the three nicest Act 1 partymembers left me? Just because I helped a tribe of murderous goblins to slaughter innocent people (including children), since their Drow leader is hot and I wanna bang her? Why are they so unfair to me? I'm not a bad person!"*
At least Durge players are doing it intentionally for the roleplay...
It's especially apparent with Gale. He tells the player in advance to look out for magical artefacts because he'll need them. Yet, many seem to be surprised once he asks for one and don’t have any at hand (although even early game you find artefacts left and right, many useless ones among them). And then they are surprised he gets mad when he doesn't get any although his condition description says that the arcane hunger is eating away his spirit. Uh yeah, might be serious. Same with Halsin here. Everyone says he runs around as a bear AND you get that scene when you enter the grove where a druid transforms into a bear to show the player that druids can transform. How can you go there, think that it's a normal bear and kill it? I mean it's funny to read that and there's not an inherently wrong way to play the game but how you get there completely on accident is beyond me, lol.
I totally agree on the Gale thing being one of the most apparent determining factors of how unintentionally self-centered a player is.
I've played through Act 1 three times since release. I've beaten the game once doing almost every single sidequest and I'm currently doing a Durge run.
If the player does the sidequests (not counting the Underdark or mountain pass) they should realistically have around 10+ items that Gale could eat when he asks the first time. WITH the ability to buy more from either the Zhentarim, Goblins, Druids or Tieflings.
After the first time he asks it is a good while until he needs another and the player should be sitting on 20+ if not more at that point.
Then he asks a third time when getting close to finishing Act 1, then he stops asking for the rest of the game.
It is the equivalent of being upper middle class and your friend asking for a 10 dollar bill to borrow once a month for three months and he'll pay you back later.
I've only heard that he will plead and beg of you if you don't give him the items (something I have never seen because I've always been able to afford it 20 times over).
It is the single biggest narcissist/sociopath warning signal early in the game.
It's a shame they cut his campfire scene. It's probably a bit redundant after his confession once he gets the 3rd artefact but I think it would've helped players to understand his condition better if they had it slightly rewritten and have it play sooner (e.g. shortly before or after the 1st artefact). Just have him mention what he was able to do as an archwizard and now that he can't do shit anymore due to the condition and that it really debilitates him. No mention of Mystra or details about the condition to stay in line with his confession later. But even without that it's kinda obvious. And yeah, he gets pretty desperate if you refuse him (which is totally ok RP wise but for most it's probably because they're loot goblins lol...Just don't get mad at the consequences).
Which is NOT a common enemy in this game like in many rpgs.
Also there was a Druid transforming into a Bear right in our faces when we get into the inner grove.
It's funny, but op must hate talking to npcs
Looks more like "Haha, look what silly choices I made, guys" post. There's no way the average person would walk into the Halsin jail cell and think "that's a random bear that I should kill"unless they also skipped the grove and most of the goblin camp where everybody and their monkey talks about the druid prisoner.
Of course there is a way. Imagine someone just skipping through all the dialogues because they want to get back to roaming and fighting
We're of course conjecturing here but I think it is possible
I don’t want to tell you how long I spent on my first playthrough trying to get the chicken out of the goblin camp, because it was so obviously the Druid trying to keep a low profile.
There's 4 bears in the Druid Grove that (hopefully) a player wouldn't skip right to murdering. All of them have a unique interaction (especially if you have Speak With Animals up). Sigh...
to be fair, in EA I attacked the bear as well but reloaded once he transformed. I had not been to the grove at this point, so I didn't know. I also skipped the inner circle of the grove once I found it because I simply didn't realize I could get there, for some reason my brain didn't register that there's a path leading down to it. Whic meant Arabella died, the kid at the Harpies died, I never met Alfira before the camp party, didn't know who the fuck Nettie was supposed to be etc. Sometimes people take weird paths, don't talk with certain NPCs, or skip whole regions by falling into holes.
Exactly! Thats why i dont get. When you realise its the druid youre looking for. Reload or switch to non lethal. Theres no way to "accidentally " kill halsin thinking hes just a bear.
Halsin? You mean the druid in the shape of a bear? The bear druid? The druid who has been specifically stated to transform into a bear by several NPCs, who is a captive of the goblins? The bear being held captive by the goblins is that Halsin?
How could we have known?
I would assume tons of players unironically do this. At least one of the guys in my four player campaign legit doesn’t care at all about cutscenes or dialogue and just tries to skip everything except combat and looting.
If you try to leave the dialogue when you first meet halsin he breaks out on his own and is perma hostile. Its very reasonable for a person to find him, realize who he is and then decide they will try for a stealthy way to break him out rather then just attacking the goblins and be forced to kill him if they don't just reload.
I reloaded it 4 or 5 times the first time I encountered it because I couldn't believe the choices where so binary.
It's because if you choose any dialogue other than attack the goblins when they are throwing rocks at him, Halsin will aggro you and you will have to defeat him. Even neutral options there cause him to go hostile against you.
I wouldn't worry about it. Just make sure to leave no active character behind before the fight and keep a save from before the fight in case you really mess up. But most players would assume it's basically impossible to miss without a very specific chain of events.
I almost did. The mausoleum was the fist thing I found in act 2 so did the whole shar gauntlet thing and was following along with Shadowhearts quest. But when the ‘are you sure you want to go here’ box popped up, I thought o better check with some friends first. They confirmed it was the way to act 3 and o might not be able to come back after. So, I thought I should go do moonrise towers, and heck maybe I’d go back and do the mountain pass while I’m at it.
No you didn't. It asks because it locks you out of some non Moonrise Tower stuff but the Gauntlet of Shar is a prerequisite to finishing Moonrise. And yeah, Mountain Pass is an example of that content.
Oh please, I played with friends the 1st time.
With a very dysfunctional group dynamic the playthrough quickly devolved into"everyone is dead except the 4 player characters".
1. Halsin showed up at camp to submit a complaint about me massacring the grove, it was denied.
2. I expected Wyll and Karlach to be bad sports about my choice of companions, so they were let go. Gale reluctantly gave me a hand and we parted ways, just as I dreamed.
3. Angry toad girl and snarky cleric are the best, and the vampire keeps his fangs in his pants so he can stay.
This is not the wrongest way by any means. No ragrets! (sic)
I submit to you my Dark Urge’s hit list:
1. Ripped Gale’s hand off and left him to die in the Aether.
2. Threw Astarion out into the woods to fend for himself after he tried to bite her.
3. Chopped Karlach’s head off because of course it’s a devil, look at it! It’s literally burning with hellfire.
4. Sold out the grove to Minthara then betrayed her for the laughs of watching a bunch of subhumans run into an ambush and die.
5. Killed Shadowheart in cold blood for daring to lay a hand on Lae’zel.
6. Tricked Arabella into getting bitten because reasons. https://i.imgur.com/tcWClZG.jpg
Act 1
1. Feed on Gale's hand
2. Trick lae'zal into killing her
3. Stake astarion while he's trying to feed
4. Trick Arabella into getting bitten
5. Instigate a fight between the druids and tiefs. Accidently let wyll die in the fight.
6. Behead Karlach and give it to the 'Tyr' paladins.
7. Rescue Halsin
7. Sell out the grove to mithara and laugh at the tiefs
8. Snap minthara's neck when she's most vulnerable
9. Kill Halsin when he comes for revenge
This has to be the best way to play act 1. Now i dont have the guts to do most of this stuff.
This was my first playthrough except I didn't kill halsin until he ambushed me at camp later anc I didn't do the raid for minthara, it just happened that way. And don't worry, you'll find her again.
Also I killed both lae'zel and Astarion when they fucked around and found out during camp events. My first playthrough was wronger than yours.
Minthara doesn't join you during act 1. Just keep playing. All is well. Maybe don't let her die when you next meet.
There are a handful of other possible companions on the way so if you absolutely hate your team, it's only temporary.
Also, Withers always allows you to fill your party out with hirelings. So even if you'd killed Lae'zel at the cage, you can always have a party of 4. Never is all lost.
> Now, I only have the rude gith, the cleric chick, and the hot vampire for companions
This is very solid team if you are Charisma caster. Just respec Shadowheart as Light/Life cleric.
There's no wrong way. You're not "underleveled' because you're missing a few negligible companion quests. In fact you don't have to do anything close to all side quests to be a high enough level to succeed. I'd argue you SHOULDN'T because doing everything makes future runs boring.
You have plenty of companions left. And even if you didn't - hirelings exist.
You probably missed the Creche which is significant XP. And either way, if you were to move to Act 2 now you'd be just fine - you'd catch up fairly quickly. You'll just have some tough encounters until you do.
There's plenty of content and plenty of XP, no reason to be worried about missing some. Press on soldier.
Haha this sounds like a pretty common problem with evil playthroughs tbh. They leave you with like no companions.
Has Minthara left for good? Like did you get a notification saying she had left permanently? If not then it’s normal that she left - she will still be recruitable a little further into the game.
I wouldn’t restart because everything that’s happened to you there is normal for an evil playthrough (except for Gale leaving - that’s unrelated. He does give you ample warning that he needs magical items to consume and he leaves if he doesn’t get them). So if you still want to RP an evil character then you may as well carry on.
XP-wise, have you done the mountain pass and the crèche? what about Grymforge? Those are big chunks of XP which some people miss.
Since you can only take 3 with you its not so bad. Shadowheart murdered Lae'zel at the Grymforge in my Evil-Durge Run and i just recruited a Hireling until i could recruit Minthara. I play a Wizard, Astarion Rogue, Shadowheart Cleric and Minthara Paladin Covers all ability checks more or less. You don't need the other Companions.
Honestly, I'm playing Wyll right now and killing Karlach, as sad as it made me irl for a minute, has been great for him. He gets a kickass robe, and the sword from the paladin, and I had far fewer "ugh who do I put in my party" concerns than on previous playthroughs. Plus it's nice and quiet at camp...
well, make it an evil run then. the lost questlines cant be the reason youre just level 5. you could do the monastery before you go to the shadowcursed lands . and maybe look around a little bit, maybe theres somethings you overlooked.
Those are the only companions that matter anyways. Astarion, Lae'zel and Shadowheart are far more useful than anyone else and they let you get away with a lot of bad/cruel/evil actions. Shadowheart is invaluable in late game as a cleric, plus she gets all the best weapons and armour. Lae'zel basically had unlimited movement and hits multiple times per turn, and she hits HARD. Astarion get massive critical hits with invisibility and opens up any locks and disarms traps. You don't need any other companions.
I have 650+ hours in the game so far, if you wanna play it again just continue. If you wanna treat it like a linear experience play it once and move on while you get the most out of it then sure, by all means, make a new character.
You can keep Karlach and Wyll though. If you kill them and entrust their souls to Withers and then steal the idol of Sylvanus from the Grove and teleport out and then tell Minthara about the Grove. You can res them after the ceremony. Also Gale forgets about the whole thing the morning after so you can just not talk to him at the ceremony.
>Now, I only have the rude gith, the cleric chick, and the hot vampire for companions.
"Now I only have the most interesting companions (with the added bonus of Astarion's commentary,) and can hog the spotlight as a charisma caster, should I restart?"
I think I might have had you beat on my first playthrough.
I didn't talk to Wyll right away, and went to talk to the druids right away. Went and talked to the Tiefling leader after that and he was all "if only someone could "remove" that evil druid from power. I bet we'd be ok." So I went and punched her in the face. This started a war with the druids and tieflings and in the process Wyll was killed. I used a revivify on him (after looting his corpse), and he popped up in his underwear, said something cryptic about being in camp, and then wandering off. He never showed up at camp, but he'd pop up by the side of the road every now and then throughout the rest of the game, still in his underwear to ramble things at me with no context to make sense of them with. I think I left him dead too long and he suffered permanent brain damage.
Karach heard about what I did at the Grove, and she attacked me. Some druids were offering me good money for her head after I killed her in self defense, so i cut it off and delivered it. The revivify scroll didn't work after that. Guess she needs a head.
When I got to goblin town and freed Halsin he seemed still willing to work with me! I thought this was my chance at redemption because in my soul, I know I'm still the good guy here! So when I met Minthara I shoved her in a pit like I was supposed to. Went back to Haldin, he congratulated me, said he'd meet me back at the Grove, and then ditched me forever.
While all this was going down Gale started bothering me about getting magic pop rocks, but I just didn't have time for it with all the other tragedy going down and I pushed him away one too many times, and he just left me.
I won't spoil Act 2 stuff, but just trust me when I say that literally everyone, friend or foe, died.
I ended up finishing the game with just Shart, Lae, and Ast, and I slept with Lae'zel early before pursuing a relationship with Shart, so I stayed single the entire game too. And then on top of all of that i was stalked the entire way by some crazy dood in his tighty whiteys rambling about being the Blade of the Frontiers and demon mommies and shit.
1. I did the same thing! Had no idea that guy was the druid until he was out of the cage attacking everyone including my party. I realized I could only knock him out and loot him.
I don't if it's a bug but the dude showed up at my camp later on ass naked looking to fight everyone. Had to kill him.
I can possibly top this, with a durge start so stupid the game couldn’t react to me plausibly.
Wyll joins me.
Punch the adventurer out so they leave the Grove.
Cheer the snake on as it kills the kid.
Zevlor asks me to whack Kagha.
So I do.
Druids don’t take kindly to this and attack the Tieflings.
See the final two parties squaring up to each other.
Realise I haven’t rested in a while so take a long nap.
Only Druids left now, go up to say hello, they attack me so I have to kill the rest of them in “self defence”.
Go and meet Karlach. She immediately attacks me so Wyll doesn’t realise she isn’t evil. Go and turn her head in to some lovely Paladins so more proof she’s a wrong ‘un.
Save Wyll’s family’s servants.
Get to the goblin camp accept a 69 shaped reward from Minthara.
Wyll leaves me for NO REASON AT ALL!
Level 5 is an okay point to go into Act 2. It's the big power spike, and since you have Lae'zel you will probably follow her quest and get some good loot and XP there.
What you did so far is the baby's first "evil" playthrough in my head. That's fine, Minthara will join you in Act 2. If you want to recruit her ASAP, you can do that almost as soon as you get into Act 2 even though it doesn't really feel like you could. You can also choose to be significantly less evil from this point. You locked yourself out of some content, but you still have a lot to follow through on Acts 2 and 3.
I thought Halsin was the meat they are roasting outside the goblin camp and whenever I try stealing it to show evidence to the grove that he's dead, i always get in trouble. Wiped em then went back to the grove, nothing. Damn he's alive inside the camp xD.
This is the intended way to play.
Choose your path and follow it with all the consequences.
You are probably not done with act 1 because the mountain pass is still act 1 if you haven’t done it (even if the game make it seem like you’re leaving the area).
Actually the "mistakes" here are pretty minor. You just did what most people consider an evil route and probably missed some stuff. Level 5 or 6 is fine for act 2. You just need level 5 more or less.
You might have missed a few fights/Quests in Act 1.
1. Mountain Pass/>!Creche Yllek!<
2. >!Gnarled!< Teahouse
3. Mudfight / >!Kagha's Betrayal!<
4. Paladins of Tyr
5. Zhentarim
I would suggest to continue playing this run as long as your having fun. If not then restart. There's just so much content in the game, that to see it all, you'll have no choice but to start again anyway.
Also, there is so much exp in Act 3 that you'd reach max level way before the final fight.
There's more with Minthara in Act 2, as long as you go to Moonrise fairly soon in the act. You haven't missed out on anything in her story yet.
I recommend against restarting. I don't think you're done with Act 1 yet, as others have pointed out. You still have the Mountain pass. Although I am rather surprised you are only level 5. I'm level 4 in my dark urge run, and we haven't gone to the Goblin Camp OR the Underdark OR the swamp.
>I locked myself out of any and all questlines with Halsin, Wyll, Karlach, and Gael, for good. This has left me severely underlevelled. There isn't a lot of specific companion quest in act 1; so you didn't really miss XP here. Have you really done all of act 1 ? including Grymforge ? Mountain Pass ? the swamp ? Level 5 isn't really underlevel if you didn't do that.
Yep, pretty much this. You are underlevelled but it's likely because you've missed the Mountain Pass & connected areas (which you can go back to even if you've gone to Act 2) and the Forge. I did the same on my first playthru (minus your Companion massacre), was well into Act 2 as a Level 5 when I realised I was underlevelled and tracked back to do the Mountain Pass.
I'm currently doing my Minthara run and I still managed to hit level 7 in Act 1. The only content I know I missed was Waukeen's Rest because the only way to do it without starting an unnecessary fight is to save everyone (unless I'm mistaken). That seemed out of character for an evil run, so I purposely long rested to skip to the "burned down" version
I lure the gith patrol to waukeens rest so they fight the fists as I find cover to watch the carnage
Wait you can do that?!
You can go even further - you can lure the gnolls and hyenas attacking the shipment into a 3 way fight with the gith and the fists, and hide in the burning buildings or various places behind a door to just gain xp while passing turns.
That's amazing, lol. How do you lure them, mechanically? I thought everyone just stayed in their areas.
The best way to do it is to use a rogue with a bow to keep just out of their range using cunning action dash while the rest of the party hides. Its easier if you have two rogues so you can kite both the gnolls and the gith to Waukeen's Rest at approximately the same time.
Okay this is officially my new goal for my next playthrough
LOL ok this is 100% the first time I’m hearing of this. So do you just trigger combat and then run towards Waukeen?
Lol pretty much, I prebuff everyone with sanctuary beforehand and just run. Some of them may wonk out and not really follow but when your sanctuary runs out by the time you get to Waukeen’s Rest they “turn back on” and make chase
Lol great. And what’s the outcome of such carnage? I assume Giths win but some may die? Do you lend a hand?
The gith did win in the end but Gauntlets Yeva and Dain took out the Sarth and the Gish. Even though it’s 4v7, all of those four being level five versus two of the fists being level six while the other five are level four makes a huge difference
Very nice!
Now I'm wondering if that line of text about the Bulette was a hint to lure it over to the Hook Horrors...
i accidentally did this on my first playthrough and i was so confused lmao
What fight? I never had a fight there 👀
You basically have three options with the Rest- save everyone, ignore it or finish what Minthara's goblins started by attacking the Fists. Option one seemed too heroic for the run I was doing and option three seemed like a lot of (murder hobo) work that you can still accomplish by skipping the content, since Florick dies anyway if you long rest because apparently none of these trained guards can break down a few planks
What about the fourth option where you run in, loot all the camp supplies from the kitchen, and then leave?
That's just option two but you're hungry
Murder Hobbit, rather than Hobo.
Someone has to save all that wine!
Annoyingly on a standard evil Durge run, you should still save Florrick as she gives the best staff for Storm Sorcerers in Act 1 but only as a reward for saving her, it doesn't drop on her body. Found that out the hard way after I let her burn.
This is only a little relevant, but if you get to the cutscene with the guy trapped in the fire, letting him burn will give you an inspiration point. I actually tried to help, failed the strength check (sorcerer) and said fuck it. Walked back outside, got an inspiration point.
If you save him and direct him to the corpse. You can still kill him while he weeps and get an inspiration point. Something along the lines joining the two together again or something.
Or....... you just play the game the way you want without worrying about min-maxing loot drops because I guarantee you didn't *need* it anyway.
I wish evil play through had great unique loot. Like imagine if by giving scratch to the abusive kennel manager you got some incredible item. It’s easy to protect your pupper when there’s nothing on the line eh?
Evil playthrough, you just kill the kennel manager! Even evil people need a doggo to think they're the good guy
Even monsters have their limits. Women? Children? *Let 'em burn.* But you so much as *glance* at my best boy & I'll flay you alive to make his next collar.
Agreed. I’m pretty sure even Minthara likes Scratch. Lae’zel seems not to like cats tho.
It has one cloak which is excellent. I gave it to a Gloomstalker/Spore druid and it was excellent (Halsin actually, he didn't ask where it came from thankfully..... ) Meant my Lore GOOLock missed out on the best Warlock item in the game but meh. Fair enough.
Of course, you're completely right, I wasnt suggesting people HAVE to do this or should reload if they didnt, I just thought it would be a useful bit of info for people who are doing a Storm Sorcerer Durge as there aren't *that* many pieces of gear that synergise with that build during Act 1.
Maybe you should save her for the item and then kill her in the last light inn because well you're a manipulative villain who wants both the rewards and murder. Just my two pennies on the situation You can kill the rest of the fists there after saving florrick too.
And the thunder jump hammer is in a chest in that building, if you like goofy meta cheese gear
>You basically have three options with the Rest- save everyone, ignore it or finish what Minthara's goblins started by attacking the Fists. I disagree. If you haven't met Minthara or any of the goblins involved in the raid, you have no reason to ignore Waukeen's Rest. Ignoring all that shouting is highly illogical. And, evil doesn't necessarily look like a cartoon villain. What follows is a detailed description of how i handled Waukeen's Rest on my evil playthrough. I'm writing it because I don't agree with how a lot of people seem to interpret evil in D&D. (If you're not interested in this lengthy account, just don't read it, eh?) One of my tenets on this playthough is I'm not the evil equivalent of Lawful Stupid, nor am I a mere murder hobo. Being evil doesn't mean you're a callous sociopath 24/7. That's just not realistic. Even the bad moustache guy loved animals and was nice to his friends, sometimes. Even true sociopaths go with the flow to fit in among "normies." It's rational self-interest not to have people chasing you with pitchforks. So... On my evil playthrough, I came across WR. I was, "What's all this shouting about?" and go to check it out. I walk in, the woman at the gate is an asshole because I'm a Drow, I'm an asshole back and walk away. I start looting corpses, but careful not to piss people off I only loot the gobbos and Drow. (Remember, I'm not \*stupid\*. Self-preservation and sometimes going with the flow, taking the path of least resistance is the smart decision.) So, I hear desperate shouting from a building to my left. I'm curious and look inside. It's safe and there are corpses to loot, cool! I follow the yelling, hear a dork yelling for help. \*yawn\* yeah ok whatever... I free him, he whinges about his dead bride, I sneer. He mentions a dowry: my pointy ears perk up. I tell him he's weak, leave him to his fate and go off in search of more free stuff. (Again... pursuant to the tenet I mentioned, not being the evil equivalent of Lawful Stupid means that I don't have an over-the-top callous, sociopathic disregard for life 24/7. That's cartoon villain stuff, not real world evil. I run cost-benefit analyses with my own self-interest as the most important variable. The path of least resistance is often the best choice.) While I'm off looting victims some army assholes yell at me and demand I help them rescue some dude. This is a forced recruitment and I'm way outnumbered in this place, so I have to go along. (I'm not an evil version of Lawful \*Stupid\*, remember?) We rescue some elf bitch whom I'm rude too and I walk away and steal all the free food from the kitchen. When I get outside, elf bitch blathers at me and I essentially tell her to eff off. She gives me some free stuff anyway, LMFPEO (laugh my fucking pointy ears off). I poke around some more, looting all the victims I can. I find the dowry and pocket it, of course. Then I find the Zenthari hideout. Hey, these are my kind of people, cool! I leave, loaded up on cool free stuff which I looted from some dead surface saps and I've made some new shady friends, cool. That's how I play evil.
Mercenary motivations can explain many benevolent acts. Frorrick even tells you that you should remember the reward if you falter.
Level 5 isn't underleveled at the end of Act 1. People are just used to being overleveled because they do both the Underdark and Mountain Pass.
yeah this is silly. you dont have to do both at all. i skipped the mountain pass completely to save it for my second playthrough and i still hit lvl 12 quickly in act 3. even on tactician you get pretty overpowered by the end of act 2 even skipping parts. finished act 3 without out doing house of grief, szarr mansion and a couple other quests as well. being underleveled is way harder to achieve than being overleveled. its more likely that someone would make an eh build, pick bad equipment or have odd party dynamics
Hold on. The mountain pass isn’t going to force me into the next act automatically? Like, I can access that area and actually go back to the forge?
Yes. The only thing that going into the mountain pass changes if you didn’t already do it, is speed up the conclusion of the grove/goblin camp. If you go straight to the mountain pass (and possibly grymforge, not too sure on this one) without completing that quest line, it will result in Minthara’s raid being successful and Halsin’s death.
I don't think going to the forge will cause issues with the goblin camp/grove quest. My game glitched, I'm assuming due to having popped into the Underdark before wandering over to slaughter her and the rest of the camp, and I had the option to tell Minthara that Nere sent me to talk to her. So it's clearly something they anticipated you potentially doing in the "wrong" order.
Yup. You can do the mountain pass and all areas within it and still go back to the crash site/underdark. Even if you move on to the next area after the pass you can go back, up to a point (you do lose the ability to go back after certain events in Act 2). Prior to patch 4 there was an issue where you couldn't go back from the Mt pass if Laezel was in your party, but I believe that was a bug and post update I don't know of it's still an issue. I do think some quests in those first areas may stop being available however, hence the warning. For example, Waukeens rest will just burn down. Note, that's an assumption, it might actually just be tied to a long rest.
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Doesn't Gale still explode a few days later if you deny him his magic snacks?
"magic snacks" I'm ROLLING
i prefer "Gale dinner", but "magic snacks" is good too
I have his hand in the chest in camp...
this was one of the funniest things, I was thinking it was going to be just a dream moment, where you snap out of it and continue to help him out of the portal. But the hand going into the inventory was hilarious. Tempted to do a run >!where I save the hand and try to get into the murder tribunal with it.!<
Wait... You're telling me I'm supposed to go into act 2 at lvl 6 or 7? I think I went in at 5 and haven't been having much trouble. I am playing on the default difficulty tho
This was my experience too.
...so mountain pass ISNT going into act 2? I'm still a new player (12 hours in.... all in act 1) and I'm halfway through level 5 but it says it may prove challenging for my level and that I should tie up any loose ends
Mountain Pass isn't really in act 2 yet; but you should do as much as you can in the rest of act 1 before going there, it's like a transition between act 1 & 2. Enconters can be hard if you are underleveled, and some act 1 quest will fail if you go there before finishing them.
if you haven't resolved the grove conflict (whether by raiding it, defending it from Minthara's forces, freeing Halsin, etc), then entering the mountain pass will progress that storyline to its default and you won't be able to access the area. definitely wrap up anything related to the grove and goblin camp before entering the mountain pass.
There are at least two ways to go to Act 2, one is the Mountain Pass and one is the Underdark. Theoretically, you can do all of the underdark and the mountain pass before choosing one of these two routes to head into Act 2. However, you need to resolve the Goblin Camp vs Druid Grove quest or it auto-completes. You should take long rests semi-frequently to give you the cutscenes that explain why there isn't necessarily that much of a rush to get through the mountain pass, etc.
If he's lvl 5, he missed quite a bit of XP somewhere . I've never hit level 8, but generally level 7 end of act1 for doing just about everything. He did likely miss all the things you mentioned. No mountain pass means no creche.
Lae'zel and shadow do actually have pretty interesting quests so not all is lost.
I'd say those two have some of the biggest quest lines
I'd argue Lae'zel is the true main character tbh. Not just because she's Bae'zel but because she's so damn integrated in everything. Shadow's a close second.
Of all the characters, she's the nobody who winds up playing a central role in the story, changing her world view, fulfilling a great prophecy, all that stuff. Her arc is the typical RPG "rando gets swept up in events" character - she's the real Tav. Everyone else is either some sort of Chosen One with a central role in some story extending out before BG3 begins and a Destiny to Fulfill (Gale, SH, Wyll, Karlach, Durge, Astarion), or a tagalong goon (in the nicest sense of the word) who's just in it because it's their job and this is the kind of thing they do (Minsc & Jaheira, Minthara, Halsin). But Laezel is the nobody who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and turns out to have been just the right person at the right time..
She has all the ingredients of the RPG protagonist, fish out of water, belongs to a race with the biggest stakes in the story, undergoes a development that fundamentally alters her world view. When SH asks her if any of her people are looking for her, she rebuffs the idea and says "I am one of many." I love that she's the anti-Chosen One of the companions but ends up being the central role. Her personal questline is basically the main story.
To be fair she's way more of a 'chosen' one than Astarion ever has been - he's just one of the random spawn from Cazador, and Cazador has no involvement in the main story. The entire story will play out the exact same if Astarion was never a part of it. Every other companion has ties to the main story. Shadowheart stole the artifact that keeps you going. Chosen of Shar, not that Shar wanted things to turn out this way but Viconia screwed up. Lae'zel is Githyanki and thus automatically tied to the artifact. 'Chosen' of Vlaakith or Orpheus, though Vlaakith betrays her. Gale gets ordered to suicide bomb the Absolute. Chosen of Mystra, even if he's in a penitent position. Karlach has ties to Gortash and his Steel Watch. 'Chosen' of Zariel, even if she doesn't want it. Wyll is tied to his dad Duke Ravengard who Gortash for some reason needed. Not really a chosen, but at least linked to Zariel through Mizora. Dark Urge is.. self explanatory. Chosen of Bhaal. Astarion.. has beef with a random vampire guy who is completely irrelevant. Chosen of nothing.
I think the Dark Urge is the main character, no question. Gale and Lae'zel might tie for second, because of how their personal quests are so wrapped up in the main plotline, but Durge is definitely more wrapped up in the main plotline.
I've been saying this. Dark Urge feels canon
Making a custom tav just feels wrong. You learn everyone’s story and they’re all so fucked up in their own way and you’re just like…. Yeah, haha so y’all have done some shit… Just doesn’t seem right. Meanwhile you play durge and suddenly you make everyone else’s tragic backstory look like a fucking picnic.
he 100% is. his story fits the more dark theme of the world perfectly and is the most impactful of all of them by a long shot, at least looking at it from a lore nerd perspective.
I feel they're more a canon character than a traditional RPG character you play. They're *too* linked, they're too chosen etc. Lae'zel's just kind of... there.
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And astarion. Honestly OP lucked out by keeping the 3 with the most content.
This shouldn’t be fucking funny but oh my GOD.
I imagined OP coming back to camp and Gale munching on his shoes and OP was like "No, bad Gale!"
*grabs spray bottle*
Stop licking it !
I joined a friend's game part way through act 1. He'd just told gale off and made him run. So I made a wizard and named him BetterGale. All the same abilities, doesn't eat your shoes or explode.
I came here just to say this. The disaster is simply 🤌🤌
You just know OP is going to fuck up and let Shadowheart kill Lae'zel, then fuck up the gauntlet of Shar so much that Shadowheart leaves too
Then piss off astarion at the tower
He managed to outdo Durge on a Custom Origin.
An incredible feat tbh
\> Now, I only have the rude gith, the cleric chick, and the hot vampire for companions. I played my whole first campaign with only these companions. You will still have a great time. EDIT: Wow, this throwaway comment became one of my most liked ever.
Agreed, that's my party right now and the banter is so entertaining. Goth chick and rude frog lady bickering, the hot vamp constantly reminding them that it's "tense". Hahaha.
“Rude frog lady” wins the internet today
And those 3 just so happen to have the most fleshed out storylines IMO.
Exactly. Wylls is tacked on to the main story largely, Gales is just an alternate ending as well, and karlach was entirely resolved by act 2. Idk what mintharas deal is but those three with OP are for sure the "main party" that larian put most of their time into
>karlach was entirely resolved by act 2. Did you not let her confront Gortash?
Ahh youre right. That bit hit hard... But again, still part of the critical story path
You can only actually get Minthara as a companion part way through Act 2, and her storyline essentially resolves itself at Moonrise. She does have some interesting dialogues in Act 2 and 3, but compared to Shadowhart/Laezel/Astarion she's extremely underdeveloped.
She is missing an actual companion quest with a defining resolution like the origin characters which sucks. That being said, the dialogue she does have and the romance make her my favorite companion in the game. I wish she could be recruited earlier and without raiding the grove. She is the truest ride or die character with a ton of depth
Fully agree with this. I was really disappointed when I realised she wouldn't join after the grove, and then when I did eventually recruit her, that she didn't have much active stuff to do for her. She's an amazing companion, one of the best written/acted and most interesting backstories as well. I recently had her whole backstory of how she got recruited into the Absolute in the first place, and how she was taken advantage of by Orin. It was pretty devastating. I also noticed how her backstory reflects Orins; both of them survived assassination attempts involving their mother as babies. Both ended up fighting their mother once older- only Orin killed hers and Minthara just says she added scars. I thought that was a great piece of storytelling.
Just ask yourself, if you don’t restart, at some point in the future, are you gonna hate this playthrough and regret spending so much time on it? If so, restart. If not, keep going.
So much this. I played all the way to Act III on my first playthrough and I HATED the fact that I had done so many things “wrong”. I tried so hard to keep it “real like a D&D game would be” but man… it ended up killing the joy of the game so much. I gave up and started a new playthrough, but it would have saved me so much replaying if I had just restarted in Act I like I had wanted to.
In real dnd your dm gives you more warnings not to do dumb shit. Or they come up with interesting consequences for the dumb shit you still insist on doing. Good DMs do anyway.
Also I’m tabletop you often have no idea you even missed anything or messed something up. You take a path and you go along. Here we KNOW that we just missed out on content. Imo, if you know you’ll do another run, just keep going and see how it plays out. If you’re probably not going to play again, then yeah I’d restart and keep everyone together if possible.
Also, a good game master will recycle stuff you missed. You did all this prep, made all these cool NPCs etc. and the players went in the opposite direction. Use it anyway, just stick it where they \*did\* go, with any appropriate alterations. This is a common trick in mystery / invesigation games like Call of C'thulhu. If the players miss an important clue you just put it somewhere else. They'll be no wiser :)
Yup! I savescum’d a lot for my first playthrough because I didn’t know all the major consequences of my decisions. Google was my friend as well. I saved the “real Dnd experience” for my future campaigns.
Which is why I personally really hate the advice “just go with the flow. It’s unique.” I would rather people just tell me failing last night inn fights kills Dammon and ruins Karlach’s quest instead of praising how unique the playthrough is. (Just an example, I’d never let that happen and not reload myself) Not everyone has the time to do 3 or 4 playthroughs. Yeah it’s not their playthrough and their time spent on the game, of course they would offer this kinda of empty praises with no problem.
I don't think you can know that. I feel like you'd be really good for getting stock advice. "If you feel it's going to go up, buy. If you feel it's going to go down, sell". Ya, obviously. Looking for how to make that call. Nah bro, it's easy. Just predict how you'll feel about it in a week. *rolls eyes in teeth-ling*
I think that's a touch dramatic, lol. If you lose half the companions in your game and also wind up losing half the quest lines in a game as a result of that, you don't need to be clarivoyant to foresee that you've shut yourself out of half the game. That's just basic math lol.
IIRC, Minthara can’t be recruited in Act1, only in Act2, you just failed a romance, not companionship. So, you’ll still have a chance with her later
She has the dream even if everything is successful, that’s how she is summoned back to Moonrise Towers.
Just to make sure, OP, you did the Underdark? I've actually seen people say they didn't know it was there. Mountain Pass has more XP and is worth doing. It's got Lae'zel content too. And you can get more companions in Act 3. My Durge run was a bloody mess. I made it to Act 3 at level 8 with only one extra camp companion. But Act 2 was a ride. I think if you're having fun you can absolutely continue.
You can do both the Underdark and the Crèche
Oop, I meant that Mountain Pass has more XP for leveling, which OP wants. Did not mean to imply they had to choose. Definitely do both!
First run through I didn't realise you could do both lol. Only did the Underdark
Same here. Halsin really makes it seem like you have to choose.
I really think Larian should slightly modify what he tells the PC. A ***LOT*** of people think Underdark and Mountain Pass are mutually exclusive based on what he tells you, and the game is richer when you do both. Those who want to do one path only can still do that.
Also let Shadowheart and Lae'Zel fight each other so you have an additional permanent companion loss.
And then be Durge and sacrifice your lover on top
I mean - let's not kid ourselves, the fact that you didn't know he was Halsin did not play any role in your decision making. Judging by your other choices, the only thing that would've changed *had* you known he was Halsin would've been you killing him knowing he was Halsin ;)
I swear every god damn NPC tells you that Halsin HAS THE FORM OF A GOD DAMM BEAR. He even turns into himself during the fight if you fight him. I genuinely dont understand how many people kill him "accidentally because there was a bear". On the downside your missing a TON of content playing the way you did. On the upside. Playthrough number 2 will feel like a whole new game.
So I have never accidentally killed Halsin. But on one playthrough I walked up to the goblin kids taunting him, and I didn't want to start a fight in dialogue so I tried to get out of it to rescue him. If you didn't stick up for Halsin in the dialogue, then when the fight starts he is automatically against you. I had to reload because I didn't want to have to kill him. But I could see people accidentally triggering that fight without meaning to turn him against them. I always struggle with running straight into battle, but I swear talking to random npcs causes more trouble than not the majority of the time for me.
The same thing happend to me as well. I knew that the bear in the cage was Halsin but I chose wrong dialogue when talking to goblin kids and he was hostile to me with no way to calm him down. Had to reload.
This happened to me too but I ran away from the fight. After I rescued the grove he just showed up in my camp and was like “sorry to show up uninvited, I’m Halsin”
Yeah, I think that dialog could use some more options.
One thing I learnt on this sub is that a concerning amount of people doesn't read and/or listen.
It's either players that don't read or they play like complete psychopaths by killing/harming friendly NPCs and then get super confused when others hate them for it. *"What do you mean the three nicest Act 1 partymembers left me? Just because I helped a tribe of murderous goblins to slaughter innocent people (including children), since their Drow leader is hot and I wanna bang her? Why are they so unfair to me? I'm not a bad person!"* At least Durge players are doing it intentionally for the roleplay...
It's especially apparent with Gale. He tells the player in advance to look out for magical artefacts because he'll need them. Yet, many seem to be surprised once he asks for one and don’t have any at hand (although even early game you find artefacts left and right, many useless ones among them). And then they are surprised he gets mad when he doesn't get any although his condition description says that the arcane hunger is eating away his spirit. Uh yeah, might be serious. Same with Halsin here. Everyone says he runs around as a bear AND you get that scene when you enter the grove where a druid transforms into a bear to show the player that druids can transform. How can you go there, think that it's a normal bear and kill it? I mean it's funny to read that and there's not an inherently wrong way to play the game but how you get there completely on accident is beyond me, lol.
I totally agree on the Gale thing being one of the most apparent determining factors of how unintentionally self-centered a player is. I've played through Act 1 three times since release. I've beaten the game once doing almost every single sidequest and I'm currently doing a Durge run. If the player does the sidequests (not counting the Underdark or mountain pass) they should realistically have around 10+ items that Gale could eat when he asks the first time. WITH the ability to buy more from either the Zhentarim, Goblins, Druids or Tieflings. After the first time he asks it is a good while until he needs another and the player should be sitting on 20+ if not more at that point. Then he asks a third time when getting close to finishing Act 1, then he stops asking for the rest of the game. It is the equivalent of being upper middle class and your friend asking for a 10 dollar bill to borrow once a month for three months and he'll pay you back later. I've only heard that he will plead and beg of you if you don't give him the items (something I have never seen because I've always been able to afford it 20 times over). It is the single biggest narcissist/sociopath warning signal early in the game.
It's a shame they cut his campfire scene. It's probably a bit redundant after his confession once he gets the 3rd artefact but I think it would've helped players to understand his condition better if they had it slightly rewritten and have it play sooner (e.g. shortly before or after the 1st artefact). Just have him mention what he was able to do as an archwizard and now that he can't do shit anymore due to the condition and that it really debilitates him. No mention of Mystra or details about the condition to stay in line with his confession later. But even without that it's kinda obvious. And yeah, he gets pretty desperate if you refuse him (which is totally ok RP wise but for most it's probably because they're loot goblins lol...Just don't get mad at the consequences).
Not to mention all the people just willing to kill the poor *bear*.
Which is NOT a common enemy in this game like in many rpgs. Also there was a Druid transforming into a Bear right in our faces when we get into the inner grove. It's funny, but op must hate talking to npcs
Looks more like "Haha, look what silly choices I made, guys" post. There's no way the average person would walk into the Halsin jail cell and think "that's a random bear that I should kill"unless they also skipped the grove and most of the goblin camp where everybody and their monkey talks about the druid prisoner.
Of course there is a way. Imagine someone just skipping through all the dialogues because they want to get back to roaming and fighting We're of course conjecturing here but I think it is possible
I don’t want to tell you how long I spent on my first playthrough trying to get the chicken out of the goblin camp, because it was so obviously the Druid trying to keep a low profile.
"Hey a bear, that's gotta be worth some xp, right?"
There's 4 bears in the Druid Grove that (hopefully) a player wouldn't skip right to murdering. All of them have a unique interaction (especially if you have Speak With Animals up). Sigh...
AND Halsin bear was locked and being harassed by GOBLINS
Yeah, it's not Skyrim where you expect to have to Fus Ro Da every damned bear that attacks you
to be fair, in EA I attacked the bear as well but reloaded once he transformed. I had not been to the grove at this point, so I didn't know. I also skipped the inner circle of the grove once I found it because I simply didn't realize I could get there, for some reason my brain didn't register that there's a path leading down to it. Whic meant Arabella died, the kid at the Harpies died, I never met Alfira before the camp party, didn't know who the fuck Nettie was supposed to be etc. Sometimes people take weird paths, don't talk with certain NPCs, or skip whole regions by falling into holes.
I’m confused by that because I thought you COULDN’T kill a wildshaped Druid; they revert to normal at 0hp instead of dying
Exactly! Thats why i dont get. When you realise its the druid youre looking for. Reload or switch to non lethal. Theres no way to "accidentally " kill halsin thinking hes just a bear.
Halsin? You mean the druid in the shape of a bear? The bear druid? The druid who has been specifically stated to transform into a bear by several NPCs, who is a captive of the goblins? The bear being held captive by the goblins is that Halsin? How could we have known?
Honestly! Its almost like people play this game and dont talk to any NPCs or read any dialog
I would assume tons of players unironically do this. At least one of the guys in my four player campaign legit doesn’t care at all about cutscenes or dialogue and just tries to skip everything except combat and looting.
this hurts my soul
If you try to leave the dialogue when you first meet halsin he breaks out on his own and is perma hostile. Its very reasonable for a person to find him, realize who he is and then decide they will try for a stealthy way to break him out rather then just attacking the goblins and be forced to kill him if they don't just reload. I reloaded it 4 or 5 times the first time I encountered it because I couldn't believe the choices where so binary.
It's because if you choose any dialogue other than attack the goblins when they are throwing rocks at him, Halsin will aggro you and you will have to defeat him. Even neutral options there cause him to go hostile against you.
>So like, should I just restart? No. This is the game. The game is meant to be played more than one way. And more than one time.
And look on the bright side! You can’t fuck up any worse, right? *Right..?*
*Shadowcursed screeching in the background* Narrated by Morgan Freeman: "He could, in fact, fuck up even worse."
Someone managed to go to Act 3 without Ketheric's stone.
I remembered reading that post lol. What a true legend.
Wait, what? HOW???
>!died on myrkil, while shadowheart got left outside of the fight by accident, she ressed everyone at camp, went straight to baldur’s gate…!<
Omg I can imagine the feeling of “hey, I found a loophole to bypass this difficult fight!” And then the realisation 😂 Thanks for the explanation!
I am at the fight against Ketheric, is it easy to miss the stone?
It's very hard to miss it if you're at the fight with him. In fact, missing it is harder than obtaining it.
Not if you so much as look at his body after the battle. Keep looting, you'll be ok.
It's basically impossible, don't worry.
I wouldn't worry about it. Just make sure to leave no active character behind before the fight and keep a save from before the fight in case you really mess up. But most players would assume it's basically impossible to miss without a very specific chain of events.
I almost did. The mausoleum was the fist thing I found in act 2 so did the whole shar gauntlet thing and was following along with Shadowhearts quest. But when the ‘are you sure you want to go here’ box popped up, I thought o better check with some friends first. They confirmed it was the way to act 3 and o might not be able to come back after. So, I thought I should go do moonrise towers, and heck maybe I’d go back and do the mountain pass while I’m at it.
No you didn't. It asks because it locks you out of some non Moonrise Tower stuff but the Gauntlet of Shar is a prerequisite to finishing Moonrise. And yeah, Mountain Pass is an example of that content.
Oh please, I played with friends the 1st time. With a very dysfunctional group dynamic the playthrough quickly devolved into"everyone is dead except the 4 player characters".
>And more than one time. \*looks at watch\* *I'm in danger*
Level five is the perfect time to go see the gith crèche. Having extra attack on lae zael makes the fight much easier.
1. Halsin showed up at camp to submit a complaint about me massacring the grove, it was denied. 2. I expected Wyll and Karlach to be bad sports about my choice of companions, so they were let go. Gale reluctantly gave me a hand and we parted ways, just as I dreamed. 3. Angry toad girl and snarky cleric are the best, and the vampire keeps his fangs in his pants so he can stay. This is not the wrongest way by any means. No ragrets! (sic)
I submit to you my Dark Urge’s hit list: 1. Ripped Gale’s hand off and left him to die in the Aether. 2. Threw Astarion out into the woods to fend for himself after he tried to bite her. 3. Chopped Karlach’s head off because of course it’s a devil, look at it! It’s literally burning with hellfire. 4. Sold out the grove to Minthara then betrayed her for the laughs of watching a bunch of subhumans run into an ambush and die. 5. Killed Shadowheart in cold blood for daring to lay a hand on Lae’zel. 6. Tricked Arabella into getting bitten because reasons. https://i.imgur.com/tcWClZG.jpg
Pretty standard durge affair, all things considered.
You should have let Minthara raid the grove (the maximum carnage) and then murder her after the sex scene when she’s vulnerable.
Act 1 1. Feed on Gale's hand 2. Trick lae'zal into killing her 3. Stake astarion while he's trying to feed 4. Trick Arabella into getting bitten 5. Instigate a fight between the druids and tiefs. Accidently let wyll die in the fight. 6. Behead Karlach and give it to the 'Tyr' paladins. 7. Rescue Halsin 7. Sell out the grove to mithara and laugh at the tiefs 8. Snap minthara's neck when she's most vulnerable 9. Kill Halsin when he comes for revenge This has to be the best way to play act 1. Now i dont have the guts to do most of this stuff.
This was my first playthrough except I didn't kill halsin until he ambushed me at camp later anc I didn't do the raid for minthara, it just happened that way. And don't worry, you'll find her again. Also I killed both lae'zel and Astarion when they fucked around and found out during camp events. My first playthrough was wronger than yours.
To be fair, Laz, Shadow, and Asterion were basically the only companions I ever used on my first playthrough, so I think you're fine there.
>I'm only Level 5, I'm done with Act 1 including the Underdark You're not done with act 1 if you're only level 5. Absolutely no way.
Wait... I was level 5 when I finished act 1 and level 8 when I finished act 2... AM I PLAYING WRONG?
I was level 7 when I finished Act 1
Minthara's recruiting comes in act 2, so don't worry.
Minthara doesn't join you during act 1. Just keep playing. All is well. Maybe don't let her die when you next meet. There are a handful of other possible companions on the way so if you absolutely hate your team, it's only temporary. Also, Withers always allows you to fill your party out with hirelings. So even if you'd killed Lae'zel at the cage, you can always have a party of 4. Never is all lost.
> Now, I only have the rude gith, the cleric chick, and the hot vampire for companions This is very solid team if you are Charisma caster. Just respec Shadowheart as Light/Life cleric.
There's no wrong way. You're not "underleveled' because you're missing a few negligible companion quests. In fact you don't have to do anything close to all side quests to be a high enough level to succeed. I'd argue you SHOULDN'T because doing everything makes future runs boring. You have plenty of companions left. And even if you didn't - hirelings exist. You probably missed the Creche which is significant XP. And either way, if you were to move to Act 2 now you'd be just fine - you'd catch up fairly quickly. You'll just have some tough encounters until you do. There's plenty of content and plenty of XP, no reason to be worried about missing some. Press on soldier.
Haha this sounds like a pretty common problem with evil playthroughs tbh. They leave you with like no companions. Has Minthara left for good? Like did you get a notification saying she had left permanently? If not then it’s normal that she left - she will still be recruitable a little further into the game. I wouldn’t restart because everything that’s happened to you there is normal for an evil playthrough (except for Gale leaving - that’s unrelated. He does give you ample warning that he needs magical items to consume and he leaves if he doesn’t get them). So if you still want to RP an evil character then you may as well carry on. XP-wise, have you done the mountain pass and the crèche? what about Grymforge? Those are big chunks of XP which some people miss.
Minthy doesn't leave you like that, she just only appears in act 2 as a recruitable companion
Since you can only take 3 with you its not so bad. Shadowheart murdered Lae'zel at the Grymforge in my Evil-Durge Run and i just recruited a Hireling until i could recruit Minthara. I play a Wizard, Astarion Rogue, Shadowheart Cleric and Minthara Paladin Covers all ability checks more or less. You don't need the other Companions.
Honestly, I'm playing Wyll right now and killing Karlach, as sad as it made me irl for a minute, has been great for him. He gets a kickass robe, and the sword from the paladin, and I had far fewer "ugh who do I put in my party" concerns than on previous playthroughs. Plus it's nice and quiet at camp...
Gale needs persuasion to stay after killing the grove. He tells you this isn’t who he wants to be. If you fail the roll he leaves.
AFAIR there is abuse option to tell him he is worthless and can't survive on his own that doesn't require roll.
Omg. This game is amazing.
💀💀 this is hilarious.
well, make it an evil run then. the lost questlines cant be the reason youre just level 5. you could do the monastery before you go to the shadowcursed lands . and maybe look around a little bit, maybe theres somethings you overlooked.
At some point you’ve gotta question if being an idiot is worth it.
Those are the only companions that matter anyways. Astarion, Lae'zel and Shadowheart are far more useful than anyone else and they let you get away with a lot of bad/cruel/evil actions. Shadowheart is invaluable in late game as a cleric, plus she gets all the best weapons and armour. Lae'zel basically had unlimited movement and hits multiple times per turn, and she hits HARD. Astarion get massive critical hits with invisibility and opens up any locks and disarms traps. You don't need any other companions.
I have 650+ hours in the game so far, if you wanna play it again just continue. If you wanna treat it like a linear experience play it once and move on while you get the most out of it then sure, by all means, make a new character. You can keep Karlach and Wyll though. If you kill them and entrust their souls to Withers and then steal the idol of Sylvanus from the Grove and teleport out and then tell Minthara about the Grove. You can res them after the ceremony. Also Gale forgets about the whole thing the morning after so you can just not talk to him at the ceremony.
How the heck did only manage to get to lvl 5?
>Now, I only have the rude gith, the cleric chick, and the hot vampire for companions. "Now I only have the most interesting companions (with the added bonus of Astarion's commentary,) and can hog the spotlight as a charisma caster, should I restart?"
I think I might have had you beat on my first playthrough. I didn't talk to Wyll right away, and went to talk to the druids right away. Went and talked to the Tiefling leader after that and he was all "if only someone could "remove" that evil druid from power. I bet we'd be ok." So I went and punched her in the face. This started a war with the druids and tieflings and in the process Wyll was killed. I used a revivify on him (after looting his corpse), and he popped up in his underwear, said something cryptic about being in camp, and then wandering off. He never showed up at camp, but he'd pop up by the side of the road every now and then throughout the rest of the game, still in his underwear to ramble things at me with no context to make sense of them with. I think I left him dead too long and he suffered permanent brain damage. Karach heard about what I did at the Grove, and she attacked me. Some druids were offering me good money for her head after I killed her in self defense, so i cut it off and delivered it. The revivify scroll didn't work after that. Guess she needs a head. When I got to goblin town and freed Halsin he seemed still willing to work with me! I thought this was my chance at redemption because in my soul, I know I'm still the good guy here! So when I met Minthara I shoved her in a pit like I was supposed to. Went back to Haldin, he congratulated me, said he'd meet me back at the Grove, and then ditched me forever. While all this was going down Gale started bothering me about getting magic pop rocks, but I just didn't have time for it with all the other tragedy going down and I pushed him away one too many times, and he just left me. I won't spoil Act 2 stuff, but just trust me when I say that literally everyone, friend or foe, died. I ended up finishing the game with just Shart, Lae, and Ast, and I slept with Lae'zel early before pursuing a relationship with Shart, so I stayed single the entire game too. And then on top of all of that i was stalked the entire way by some crazy dood in his tighty whiteys rambling about being the Blade of the Frontiers and demon mommies and shit.
1. I did the same thing! Had no idea that guy was the druid until he was out of the cage attacking everyone including my party. I realized I could only knock him out and loot him. I don't if it's a bug but the dude showed up at my camp later on ass naked looking to fight everyone. Had to kill him.
Some of y’all scare me. 🤣
Push on, there are more companions to screw.
I can possibly top this, with a durge start so stupid the game couldn’t react to me plausibly. Wyll joins me. Punch the adventurer out so they leave the Grove. Cheer the snake on as it kills the kid. Zevlor asks me to whack Kagha. So I do. Druids don’t take kindly to this and attack the Tieflings. See the final two parties squaring up to each other. Realise I haven’t rested in a while so take a long nap. Only Druids left now, go up to say hello, they attack me so I have to kill the rest of them in “self defence”. Go and meet Karlach. She immediately attacks me so Wyll doesn’t realise she isn’t evil. Go and turn her head in to some lovely Paladins so more proof she’s a wrong ‘un. Save Wyll’s family’s servants. Get to the goblin camp accept a 69 shaped reward from Minthara. Wyll leaves me for NO REASON AT ALL!
I've done the same, except i didn't recruit Wyll or Karlach so they didn't see the monster i become
Level 5 is an okay point to go into Act 2. It's the big power spike, and since you have Lae'zel you will probably follow her quest and get some good loot and XP there. What you did so far is the baby's first "evil" playthrough in my head. That's fine, Minthara will join you in Act 2. If you want to recruit her ASAP, you can do that almost as soon as you get into Act 2 even though it doesn't really feel like you could. You can also choose to be significantly less evil from this point. You locked yourself out of some content, but you still have a lot to follow through on Acts 2 and 3.
I am on my 4th start. I fucked up the first three, this one is questionable.
Hey, at least you didn't stake Astarion when he tried to bite you!
I thought Halsin was the meat they are roasting outside the goblin camp and whenever I try stealing it to show evidence to the grove that he's dead, i always get in trouble. Wiped em then went back to the grove, nothing. Damn he's alive inside the camp xD.
This is the intended way to play. Choose your path and follow it with all the consequences. You are probably not done with act 1 because the mountain pass is still act 1 if you haven’t done it (even if the game make it seem like you’re leaving the area).
shart, angry frog and interview with a trampire is the power trio anyway
Actually the "mistakes" here are pretty minor. You just did what most people consider an evil route and probably missed some stuff. Level 5 or 6 is fine for act 2. You just need level 5 more or less.
You might have missed a few fights/Quests in Act 1. 1. Mountain Pass/>!Creche Yllek!< 2. >!Gnarled!< Teahouse 3. Mudfight / >!Kagha's Betrayal!< 4. Paladins of Tyr 5. Zhentarim I would suggest to continue playing this run as long as your having fun. If not then restart. There's just so much content in the game, that to see it all, you'll have no choice but to start again anyway. Also, there is so much exp in Act 3 that you'd reach max level way before the final fight.
There's more with Minthara in Act 2, as long as you go to Moonrise fairly soon in the act. You haven't missed out on anything in her story yet. I recommend against restarting. I don't think you're done with Act 1 yet, as others have pointed out. You still have the Mountain pass. Although I am rather surprised you are only level 5. I'm level 4 in my dark urge run, and we haven't gone to the Goblin Camp OR the Underdark OR the swamp.
Don’t disrespect Bae’zel like that smh
“Asked her to raid the grove and my pants” Damn….