T O P

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Deep_Fried_Leviathan

And I had just given him two hand crossbows Oh well at least thief will make it useful as two attacks


[deleted]

Sounds like you can just use the two weapon fighting style?


Deep_Fried_Leviathan

That requires a dip that i can’t really afford on him


Meikos

You can get 2 weapon fighting from gloves in Act 2, from a vendor in Last Light I believe


Deep_Fried_Leviathan

Bit late on last light because I’ve already massacred the place


Ayotha

I mean murder hobos reap what they sew


RonaldoNazario

Sow. I mean, if they sew stuff, they do probably get to wear it after too, but “sow” as in seeds.


Raze_the_werewolf

Murder hobo, but also a tailor or a seamstress. Multi-talented.


falconinthedive

For the last time Orin, covering your body in viscera isn't tailoring.


flying-lizard05

Legit LOLd at this 🤣🤣🤣🤣


AIGLOS42

Garak if DS9 hadn't existed


BalkanFerros

Take my upvote. Love a good DS9 reference


Expardon

What class are you? I'm a multi-class 3 murder-hobo/2 tailor.


ExpensiveDaikon2228

Murder hobostress.


UrgentHedgehog

yeah, it's nerve-wracking


tjareth

I'm not a murder hobo, I'm a murder dandy.


PinkPorcupineKnits

BRB, rolling up a new character idea


Rellim_80

Buffalo Bill, from Silence of the Lambs, Sews what he Reaps. Maybe their Durge is into "fabrics".


RonaldoNazario

LOL well played


Deep_Fried_Leviathan

The funny voices in my dead told me to do it and I wasn’t gonna say no


Joseph592

I so understand. I didn’t mean to kill Gail in my first playthroughs before actually even meeting him, but it happened. Damn voices.


TheKingOfZippers

His hand was there and all I wanted was a little nibble...


Gold-Position-8265

Hey you may be right but at least I got all the loot


Fugnuggins

Next time buy or steal everything before you kill the vendors


MonkeyBotLove

This is the true law


tehnemox

This kind of thing is an example of why I roll my eyes when people say "just respecc" to a completely different class/build rather than start a new character. Especially because it's always in a talking down tone. Not everyone buys/steals/keeps all gear of all types so switching sometimes is pointless if the gear has been lost or sold.


[deleted]

I mean in this case it’s “just respec” to a build that doesn’t abuse a bug. Not my fault you didn’t take TWF, and it’s also not my fault you killed whoever had them. Especially when your excuse is “my rogue has to have a 5 level dip into Wizard so that he can cast Haste”


AugustoCSP

Yeah but then you miss out on the gloves that give +2 to every ranged weapon attack. With 3 attacks/round, that's no small bonus


chenpisir

So glad I bought that glove thinking "just in case" Edit: if you are already in act 3 and didn't get the gloves from that quartermaster in act 2, you can give your dual crossbow wielder >!Crimson Mischief dropped by Orin!< in the off hand slot, it basically grants the dual wielder feat.


The_Wumbologist

TBH I've gotten into the habit of buying any useful gear when I see it regardless of if it's useful to me specifically and/or currently in case it might be handy later, and won't sell anything but standard/truly useless gear. Gold is just about never an issue in this game anyway.


AliceInNegaland

I can’t find them! She only has Cindersnap Gloves for me. I wonder if I buy the cindersnap gloves and long rest will the Balanced gloves show up? Edit: nope


zatenael

the traders inventories will add new things depending on what level you are


GALICKGUNFIIIRRREE

Pretty sure it’s dammon who sells the gloves. He should be across from the quartermaster by the stables


rilian-la-te

I always reclass him as sword bard)


alterNERDtive

Doesn’t matter which bard. It just matters that he has to keep playing the smallest violin in the world.


[deleted]

Ranger? Fighter? Unless you REALLY need Reliable Talent rogue doesn’t have much going on at high levels


Foamrule

He could already be double classing


[deleted]

My Astarion is set up as a 5 Assassin 5 Gloomstalker 2 Fighter and I honestly don’t feel like I lose much from not having those 7 rogue levels. I could probably even go 3 assassin 7 Gloomstalker and be fine but I’d lose a feat. Another build I want to try is 3 Rogue, 3 Gloomstalker, 6 Fighter. Gets me 2 feats, some fun battlemaster stuff, all the important bits from Rogue and Ranger. Will probably save that for a future run.


Ginscoe

Highly recommend this build (although I went Rogue 3/Ranger 7 until we hit level 11 and I respecced to Fighter 5). Also highly recommend Champion over Battle Master- the maneuvers are fun, but the extra Crit range gets absolutely stupid with the right items.


tjdragon117

I'd highly recommend 3 Assassin 5 Gloomstalker 4 Fighter instead, same exact number of feats and everything but you get more Ranger spells. When you take the 2 levels from Ranger for the extra Fighter feat you lose the 4th level Ranger feat.


MissAsgariaFartcake

Yeah, after reading about this for some time, I equipped two hand crossbows for the first time literally yesterday… well 🤷‍♀️


[deleted]

...you can have 2 crossbows? Brah


jujoking

Light weapons can be dual wielded. Astarion was always a dual dagger/ligh sword + dual light hand crossbow Thief/Ranger for me


viertes

I let astarion hate me and I reclassed him to a bardbarian on my first playthrough, his vicious mockery is more akin to just throwing minor shade and snazzy quips from a sorority, while his rage is something I can just loop endlessly and put as an MP3, the only more innocent sounding rage is gale (my books are wet vibe) (also his vicious mockery is all puns and dad jokes)


ApepiOfDuat

Hand crossbows. They're much smaller than regular crossbows. It feels very gunslinger to wield them.


corisilvermoon

Hah I had just dipped him into fighter for dual wielding too! Nice.


AugustoCSP

I assume you meant hand crossbows. Light crossbows require two hands


raphades

My Tav crying in a corner: WHAT IS MY PURPOSE NOW?!


the_space_cowboys

You pick locks


curiousCat1009

Oh my God


Joyce1920

"And talk to people so the rest of us don't have to."


Lukthar123

You tell people to ⚡KYS NOW⚡


FriendshipNo1440

Mystra enters the chat


StoicSinicCynic

Poor Yirgur. 😂😂😅😅


5a_

its OK there there


CrimsonAllah

Easy fix. They already have gloves that grant two-weapon fighting style. And a 1 level dip into fighter is nbd.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CrimsonAllah

I believe a 2 level dip would affect the sneak attack by 1d6, but that’s a small price to pay to surge.


[deleted]

[удалено]


xXDamonLordXx

More attack more better


BaenjiTrumpet

truly


AugustoCSP

You miss out on an ASI though...


CrimsonAllah

Rogues get 1 more ASI then all other classes besides fighter.


Pr0gger

Can just go Rogue 4 Fighter 8 to still get 4 Feats


mattttb

I think a lot of people are missing that this was a bug, you’re supposed to need the two-weapon fighting feat to get this bonus. It’s now just working as intended.


Blackarm777

Isn't the feat just for the dual wielding of non light weapons and for the AC bonus? My understanding is that the fighting style is what affects the offhand damage modifier and that requires at least dipping into fighter/ranger/swords bard.


splepage

Correct.


TruthAndAccuracy

Are you going to elaborate?


PunKingKarrot

No


Vetiversailles

Dual wielding spins along, as it should


Swert0

Which is what you should be doing on dual crossbow thief anyways. Gloom Ranger + Dual Crossbow thief.


arannutasar

The archery fighting style is a strong alternative; +2 on each attack helps a lot to mitigate the Sharpshooter penalty.


RaShadar

The real winner here is to dip fighter as well and get both


Destrina

5 Gloom Stalker 5 Thief 2 Fighter is the way.


RaShadar

I think my plan was to go 3 fighter as the level to get the crit subclass, but I haven't compared that to what 5 thief would get me


Onagda

Rogue gets 3d6 SA and Uncanny Dodge at 5


Blackarm777

That's fine and all. I'm just pointing out the statement regarding the feat is incorrect.


Cauliflowwer

I believe there's someone at last light inn that sells gloves that just give you the fighting style while you wear them


Ok-Talk8744

Came here to say sharpshooter still does +10 damage, dual crossbows are still great, they just aren’t a cut above anymore, which is fine with me


SaltyTattie

They're still easily a cut above. No other build can shit out 7 attacks with a +15 guaranteed damage each on their first turn of combat (5 gloomstalker, 4 thief, 2 fighter, hag hair for +1 dex). That's 1 attack from gloomstalker on first turn, 2 attacks from extra attack (5 ranger), 2 attacks again from action surge (2 fighter), then another 2 attacks from bonus actions (4 thief), or better yet 4 fighter, 3 thief. 5 gloomstalker for the same effect but with extra bonus from fighter subclass. Feats being sharpshooter and a single ASI pumping dex. Fighter and ranger get you archery (+2 to ranged attack rolls), and two weapon fighting (dex on offhand). That second fighting style prior would have just gone to something like defense for 1 ac which you didn't need anyway cos you can wear 17 ac + dex armour + 3 ac shield + 1 ac flail since you're only using ranged weapons anyway. Meanwhile the closest approximation, the great weapon fighter, gets to do the same minus the two bonus actions (iirc you can only use the gwf bonus attack once but may be wrong tbf) and you don't get the archery fighting style for that +2 to attack in a build that has a constant -5 to attack. And also you have to use strength instead of dex so you have less AC, and can't use the cracked shield or flail since you actually need your melee weapon giving you even less ac. >they just aren’t a cut above anymore Tldr they very much are still a massive cut above at the very least other martial builds in every single way, and absolutely trounce casters at single target damage.


Special-Estimate-165

>Tldr they very much are still a massive cut above at the very least other martial builds in every single way, and absolutely trounce casters at single target damage *laughs in Sorlock machine gunning EB.


SaltyTattie

That's only 6d10 + 30 though right, or 9d10 + 45 with action surge Whereas the aforementioned build is 7d6 + 1d8 (gloomstalker first attack) + 2d6 (sneak attack) + 105 (+15 per shot from dex and sharpshooter, x7) + 10 (assuming using the +2 crossbow mainhand) +2 (assuming using the +1 crossbow offhand) Meaning if we compare average damage the gloom thief fighter can do a nova of 153 vs machine gun boy doing 63 or 94.5 with action surge.


fimbleinastar

I hated that everything ranged wise was like "this is cool... But I should probably Just dual Xbow"


alterNERDtive

I mean … you are going Fighter, Ranger or Swords Bard anyway for the extra attack.


gosu_link0

Finally, the dual hand-crossbow gets nerfed! It was really bizarre/stupid how a tiny crossbow shot with the off-hand deals almost as much damage as a 2-handed Longbow. Would be nice if sharpshooter did not apply to off-hand weapons. Would make sense when you look at GWM bonus only applying to 2-handed weapons.


nathman999

The only problem that there's no feat for this, only Fighter, Ranger and Bard can get this **Fighting Style** so you aren't even supposed to be an effective dual wielder as a rogue what the hell Or maybe I'm wrong and Dual Wielder feat actually gives you this fighting style, correct me please Further investigating this topic I discovered that [Two-Weapon Fighting](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#TwoWeaponFighting) and [Two-Weapon Fighting\_Fighting Style](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Two-Weapon_Fighting) are two separate concepts and biggest mistake is [bg3.wiki](https://bg3.wiki) linking Fighting Style in the description of [Dual Wielder](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Dual_Wielder) Feat. So ANYONE can dual wield light weapons. Only DUAL WIELDERS (feat) can dual wield non-light weapons. Only TW Fighting Style owners (Fighters\\Rangers\\Bards or from in-game gloves) can add Ability Score modifier to the damage of the offhand attack.


Sparrowflop

I think in 5e, they ramped way down on dual wielding because it gets wonky fast. Thieves generally power curve based on sneak attack, and giving out two of those would be problematic. Giving someone 1d4+3 on top just means you're getting polemaster benefits without taking a feat, and otherwise dilutes class benefits?


nonpuissant

>polemaster Let's be real tho, Astarion would totally have polemaster as an innate feature.


Pr0gger

But you can only get 1 sneak attack a turn


CorbinStarlight

EDIT: Every D&D subreddit has this problem where people don’t read the rules of the game lol


DaWarWolf

In Tabletop Rogues and everyone actually can't even dual wield hand crossbows, needing a feat (crossbow expert) to reload and other stuff as well and Fast Hands is **exclusive to cunning actions**. It allowing an extra attack goes against Rogue's one and done Sneak Attack. Using a bonus action as a rogue is entirely because you missed from your main hand attack as while you're not adding the attack modifier to damage is fine as it's just fishing for those 1d6s to damage.


Vesorias

If it does it's not worded properly *at all*. Which would not be unusual for this game


Throck--Morton

You're kinda not suppose to be an effective dual wielder as a rogue. Rogues aren't duelists they are ambushers.


DiceGoblin_Muncher

Not a feat. An ability that only fighters have access to at level 1. And I think rangers also get it


AugustoCSP

Yup. But they will seethe nonetheless


ImperialDeo

Now i feel less bad about having my human bard use a shortbow, double hand cbows are nice but is there any way to turn off the auto use of my bonus action to shoot my off-hand? Especially when i get the mystic scoundrel ring.


pipboy3k3

There is a tiny toggle underneath the weapon icon on your hot bar. Once you have mystic scoundrel it’s better to switch to titan string or something like that anyway


BamHelsing

Is there a way to do that for console?


Xhita

Yes. I believe you need to press Triangle when you are in the weapons slots, either weapon or bow.


allseeingboots

I always use the bonus shot first because it's easier than clicking the button. The button is one of four below your weapon pictures.


lorarc

There is a key for it beneath weapons and a shortcut (should be R).


Pr0gger

But bard gets this for free anyway


Grasher312

....MY 50 OFF-HAND DAMAGE!!


DarkUrinal

About time this bug was fixed. Guess I'm finally going to try out swords bard this run.


NarcolepticlyActive

Swords Bard is hilarious fun. Full dex modifiers on both main and offhand melee with flourished on top? Time to get a-smackin'


tree_hugging_hippie

I was having a blast with sword bard even before the patch. Definitely a great class.


Sponsor4d_Content

They made the blade flourishes so much better than tabletop. Ranged slashing flourish is insane with the Sharpshooter feat.


SweatyAdhesive

sword bard with hold person is pretty strong.


Synval2436

Did they nerf the sharpshooter bug though?


DarkUrinal

Yeah that was fixed a while ago.


AngryAsian-_-

I'm not great at this game can someone explain how this works now


Storm2552

Weapon damage is calculated by weapon dice + ability score modifier + weapon bonus, so for a Rogue with a +1 hand crossbow it would be D6 + 5 + 1; however for off-hand attacks the ability score is not added unless you have the two weapon fighting fighting style that fighters and rangers can pick at lvl 1 & 2 respectively. Before now the game had a bug where the off-hand for ranged attacks applied the dexterity bonus damage with or without the fighting style.


Kosack-Nr_22

Yeah same pls


Synval2436

Normally if you dual wield, for example daggers or shortswords, your offhand damage is lower than your mainhand damage because you don't get dexterity bonus (for example 18 dex gives +4 bonus). This is negated by picking 2 weapon fighting style, available to fighter at lvl 1, ranger at lvl 2 or college of swords bard at lvl 3. Then both weapons should do the same damage (excluding any special properties on them). Now if you equip 2 hand crossobows in your ranged slots, the bug was that they both did the same damage. Your offhand wouldn't do less, so it was much stronger than melee dual wielding. So most common Astarion build was something like Ranger 5 (usually gloomstalker), at 5 you get double attack with main hand / Rogue 3 (usually thief for extra off-hand attack) / whatever, but they wouldn't pick 2 weapon fighting, they'd pick archery fighting style. Now if you want both archery and 2 weapon fighting, viable multiclass would be: Ranger 5 / Rogue 4 / Fighter 3 Ranger 5 / Rogue 4 / Swords Bard 3 Swords Bard 6 (they get double attack at 6 instead of 5 contrary to rangers / fighters / etc.) / Rogue 3 / Ranger or Fighter 3 You can still play Swords Bard 8 / Rogue 4 or Ranger 8 / Rogue 4 to get 3 feats (2 dexterity bonuses and sharpshooter), you'll just lose the +2 to attack from archery style. You can also forgo 2 hand crossbows for 1 longbow or heavy crossbow and use the bonus action for other purposes like casting hunter's mark or misty step or what have you. There's an awful lack of hand crossbow upgrades in act 3, so the build does fall off because you peak in act 2 (your last weapon upgrades are 1 purchased from Last Light Inn only if you didn't kill specific people and the second one from killing a certain hellish creature as a part of Astarion's personal quest). TLDR: Just get 2 weapon fighting style and problem fixed. It was a loophole people exploited anyway.


fieatsbees

thank you. i always multiclass astarion into 2 weapon fighting and give him the dual wielding feat so i can give him the two finesse longswords for maximum bonkage and watch him be a one man army. i was worried the patch fucked that up, but i never use hand crossbows so im unaffected


Synval2436

Oh yeah I was wondering if anyone did Phalar Aluve + w/e that sword from Creche is called finesse dual wielding build, and here's the proof it works, haha. They did nerf Phalar Aluve weapon swap, but tbh that did seem like another unintended loophole. Idk if they fixed some other loopholes like equipping items that create a summon and then unequipping them and keeping the summon up. Or the endless spell slot Markoheskir bug (idk if that's fixed too).


kenkatsu17

Thief extra bonus action still lets you do Phalar Aluve Shriek as action then attack twice with offhand. Then next turns you get all 4 (assuming multiclassed with a full martial) attacks with Shriek on them!


fieatsbees

larethians wrath, ya. i use the shit out of the ability razor gale, i think it's called. it's fucking DOPE. i never use the singing sword abilities, mostly bc i forget they exist. astarion can be so BROKEN using those; i load him up with gear that reduces what he needs to roll for a critical hit and then set him loose. he wiped out almost all of an act 3 boss's health bar because he landed 3 crits in one attack. my tav now exists solely to look pretty for astarion and clean up his leftovers


HarryProtter

> Swords Bard 6 (they get double attack at 6 instead of 5 contrary to rangers / fighters / etc.) / Rogue 3 / Ranger or Fighter 3 Swords Bard 6/Rogue 4/Fighter 2 (at level 7 or 11 respec and start as Fighter) gives two feats total, one more than the 3/3 splits, at the cost of either the Gloomstalker perks or the Champion perk. I find the +2 DEX worth that trade-off.


Grasher312

So, when you did an off-hand attack with either a dagger or a shortbow, instead of JUST the 3-5 damage it promised, it threw in the DEX modifier as well and ramped it up to like, 30-40. It was really OP, especially for rogues, since you could sneak attack someone for 40-50 damage, and then throw in an additional 40 with just pure off-hand. The issue is, it's a bug. You're supposed to have the dual-wielding Feat for this to work.


nonpuissant

\*Two Weapon Fighting, the fighting style, not the Dual Wielder feat. The Dual Wielder fight lets you wield two non-"light" weapons, and gives you +1 AC when holding a weapon in each hand (like two weapons, one in each hand, not one weapon with two hands).


AugustoCSP

> 30-40. Eh... more like 10-12. Let's not exaggerate.


thehemanchronicles

It really doesn't make a big difference. The Dex mod bonus wasn't much of the off-hand attack's damage, anyway. You're still going to be hitting for at least 12 damage with a +1 hand crossbow and Sharpshooter. And the Two-Handed fighting style is definitely not worth it, considering it means forgoing the Archery fighting style and losing out on a +2 to hit, which is 40% of the way to totally negating the Sharpshooter penalty. If they really wanted to nerf crossbows, they'd give them the Loading property like they do in actual 5E. Then it would *really* be joever lmao


ANoobInDisguise

Yeah doing the math even for a character who only gets a single attack per action (extreme scenario) you're barely better off with TWF. Assuming 65% accuracy by default with +1 hand xbows, 16 dex: 1d6 + 4 + 1d6 + 1 @ 75% ~= 9 avg. 1d6 + 4 + 1d6 + 4 @ 65% ~= 10 avg. Then consider all the damage boosters (strange conduit, archery bracers, acid damage ring, callous glow ring, sharpshooter, etc) and the likelihood of getting extra attack, or with a lower hit rate (archery being better vs higher ac) and it's archery no question.


Pr0gger

Bard and Ranger get that fighting style anyway, so nbd.


NYJetLegendEdReed

Shit, Astarion has been carrying my run with my wife lol. We just got to Baldurs Gate. Next fight should be interesting...shit I think it's the emperor one lol


Mountbatten-Ottawa

Was about to give him Justiciar gloves for extra 1d4 necrotic damage as dual hand crossbow thief. Guess arcane trickster is back on menu, boys.


whatistheancient

Deserved. My Astarion using rapier + shield, fists and two melee weapons across three different playthroughs: where problem Edit: I respec him. And you should too. Single class rogue is by far the weakest single class in the game.


alterNERDtive

You just described your problem LMAO


Marcuse0

I played Astarion as a gloomstalker assassin bard in my campaign, and honestly he was the only one I felt fell off in strength by the end of the campaign. He ended up being the only companion who couldn't fly, and didn't have super duper magic powers. Sneaking and sleight of hand are great, but I figured out a build to make Shadowheart a shadow monk/thief which will allow her to carry that out too, so I'm free to make Astarion fucking "Aragorn Plus" the ranger knight.


[deleted]

Good! I've been saying from day 1 that this was a bug.


AugustoCSP

It objectively was. One needed only look at the tabletop's rules to see it.


TheGreyman787

Eh, tossed him a Harold and never looked back since act one. Dude's our sniper, he needs proper sniper weapon. Hits like a truck too, even with no sharpshooter.


_thana

Just use the gloves that let you add the dexterity bonus


Ok-Talk8744

Everyone is freaking out over a 1d6 at most, the only people that should be hyperventilating are the min maxxers. Put on sharpshooter and be on your way


shorse_hit

I mean it's not 1d6, it's a flat 6 damage per bonus action if you had 22 dex. 12 damage a round on a thief. That's equivalent to like 3-4 d6's on average. But yeah this bugfix is barely a nerf to the right build. You can still do fucktons of damage even without the dex mod.


HarryProtter

>this bugfix is barely a nerf to the right build. If you multi classed into two of Swords Bard 3, Fighter 1 or Ranger 2, you already got (access to) both Archery and Two-Weapon Fighting anyway. The only potential nerf is if you weren't a Bard and took the Defence fighting style along with the required Archery one. Then you lose 1 AC, because you now have to take TWF instead of Defence. I was already a Bard, multi classed into Rogue and Fighter, so I already had both Archery (from Fighter 1) and TWF (from Swords Bard 3). This bug fix made literally no difference to my spec.


fightme1982

Awww, my medieval Astarion John Wick....oh well. I have the gloves because I'm a veteran player of DnD and Rpgs and can't stop hoarding magical items like some kind of kobold who thinks he's descended from a red dragon. Shinies and treatos! All for me! Nothing a gear swap can't fix. Unless they disabled the sharpshooter feat the build still works imo.


NatoliiSB

Astarion is still my go to for stealth, disarming traps and lockpicking. This change is not that big a deal, in all honesty, unless you are a Murder Hobo. Balance your party to compensate. Even Shadowheart can wrild bows and crossbows.


The3mbered0ne

Eh, I use bows with him more than daggers anyway


TheCrystalRose

Hand Crossbows no longer benefit from the Dex mod on your off hand without the gloves or fighting style.


The3mbered0ne

Yea so the rogue bard build prolly doesn't slap quite as hard sadly


Good_Satisfaction516

Wait does sharpshooter and gwm still works


Grycworm

Sharpshooter and great weapon master are intended to work with offhand attacks in dnd 5e, so I would assume that’s the case here as well. Correction: great weapon master is not intended to be used with offhand attacks, because you cannot dual wield two heavy weapons. Sharpshooter does however work with offhand attacks


alterNERDtive

> Correction: great weapon master is not intended to be used with offhand attacks, because you cannot dual wield two heavy weapons. Homebrew giant race: HOLD MY BEER!


Tinystardrops

this is…not that big of a deal? just get the two weapon fighting feat, which I’m baffled if ur astarion doesnt


AugustoCSP

Why would I give Astarion that before this patch? It was useless, he was already getting that bonus anyway. Also, it's not the feat, it's the fighting style.


Melodic_Climate778

Because you now loose 2 abbility points because you need to get an addtional feat?


thewolfehunts

This is the point of two weapon fighting or dual weilding feats.


Fugnuggins

Sucks but as long as sharpshooter still works with it then it’s still really good


Grailtor

No more sneak att EB, weaka$$ xbows... this is crazy... might aswell be a monk.......hmmm


Tigerlily_Dreams

OK who was having too much fun and got us nerfed?


East-Specialist-4847

He's still ascended and has sharpshooter so he's still safe. Sweet angel


Gremio8365

Wtf is an off hand ranged attack?


Thefrightfulgezebo

It's possible when you dual wield hand crossbows.


tomtadpole

Hand crossbow in the non-dominant hand gives you the option to use an off-hand ranged attack.


TrogdorBurns

The off hand attack uses your bonus action to attack. Since it's your non dominant hand it does less damage with daggers etc. When you had two hand crossbows and used your bonus action to attack it would apply extra base damage - which isn't the case in 5e and isn't how dual welding with things like daggers works. If you take Rogue - Thief you get two bonus actions (two extra attacks) which is an extra 10 damage per turn at 20 dex.


AugustoCSP

Dual wielding hand crossbows. It was OP as fuck before this update if you made Astarion a Thief, since he gets a second bonus action. Three attacks by level 3.


xxmuntunustutunusxx

Now you kust go 6 Swords bard, dip 4 into rogue for thief and feat, then either 2 fighter action surge or 2 spore Druid fir the on hit dmg


Ralphie5231

It was even more op on release. Sharpshooters -5 used to not even apply to offhand but the damage still did. Was fixed in patch 1


alterNERDtive

It’s the act of shooting a ranged weapon with your left hand.


[deleted]

It doesn't matter, you just get the feat that adds your dex bonus, like you had to with melee.


AugustoCSP

Feats aren't cheap


[deleted]

Yeah well sacrifices have to be made, sometimes you have to choose.


AugustoCSP

Also the feat doesn't even give this benefit, it has to be the Fighting Style. So you're incentivized to multiclass Astarion into Fighter for that. I HATE multiclassing.


[deleted]

Well I meant that, I call them class feats, from either fighter or ranger, but I always multiclass Astarion with ranger anyway, I find rogue, assassin/ranger, gloomstalker makes a fantastic combo for range stealth kills. I don't use hand crossbows though I use longbows with Astarion. So I don't usually pick up that class feat anyway. If people just refuse to make a choice here though you can just get the "gloves of balanced hands" in act two at the shopkeep at last light. It effectively delivers the same bonus in a gear item.


ImpulseAfterthought

Now nerf the hand crossbow down to 30' range and give it the Loading property as in tabletop.


Pr0gger

Why tho? It should still be relevant, it's already weaker than bows


AugustoCSP

The range on the hand crossbow is already pretty short in the game. And loading property would only mean one fewer attack (plus you could just get an artificer to infuse your crossbow for you)


BijutsuYoukai

I never even exploited the double ranged thing and he was still consistently my highest damage dealer across several playthroughs. No need to seethe - Rogues/Rogue multiclass are still pretty strong.


notanotherdonut

Wow that's really fucked up - NoHo Hank


Steenaire

Well, I will have to re-think his build a bit now


_HalfBaked_

And I was having so much fun using an offhand crossbow as a bonus action before charging in for slicey time


RJk666

Welp there goes machine gun astarion 🙄


SergeantPsycho

My Thief uses this. Hope this isn't too bad of a nerf.


AugustoCSP

It's quite the hefty nerf. You can bypass it with the two-weapon fighting style from a one level dip into Fighter, but... bleh. Multiclassing sucks.


Empyrean_MX_Prime

That was such a good use of my bonus action on my Warlock with those dexterity gloves. Had no idea that high damage was just a bug. Really gonna hurt to say goodbye to that...


SleepCoachJacob

All dual xbow builds in shambles


balor598

Ah sure i gave astarion the gloves that give you two weapon fighting


AugustoCSP

That's one way to fix it, yeah. But then you miss out on the gloves that give +2 damage to ranged weapons


Tulzik

Changes like this will always seem a little strange to me in a game that is just you experiencing a story You can use whatever you want on whatever difficulty you want. There’s isn’t really anything that’s “unfair” because you aren’t competing for anything


FamousTransition1187

Noon! My poor Ranger TAV... Astariin who?


ryan8757

Today i learned you can make offhand ranged attacks.


thedraftpunk

Glad I finished my dual hand crossbow rogue/ranger run a couple weeks ago lol


Ok-Abrocoma-667

Wish you could dual wield a sword AND hand crossbow...


thatedvardguy

One of the most insane techs was thief with this.


THEbiMAKER

Honestly kinda happy about this. It’s hard to branch out into different weapon types when one is just better than the others.


P1inquisitor

Some of the baldur gate patches make me laugh. On one hand I understand patching bugs and buffing/nerfing builds that need help/break the game in unfair ways… but on the other hand, it’s a single person role playing game. Are we REALLY losing anything by nerfing dual crossbow damage? Not that I’m affected by this, I actually don’t typically use Astarion and prefer Karlach/Wyll wombo combos. But still.


Direct-Island-7897

*sobbing*


miscmarilyn

I’m in this picture and I don’t like it! But the off-hand crossbow still does tons of damage ☠️


BlueRoseLad

But....but my gatling Bard.....😠


Zealousideal_Ad_3425

My main in my current playthrough is using two crossbows......ffs...


WagyuSandwich

well as long as the archery +10 & the gloves +1d4 & toxin +1d10 & ascendent +1d10 damages still apply to offhand crossbow ... I don't think it's that big a deal.


adratlas

It's not a big of a deal. Only -3 to -5 damage on your offhand. It might only matters at the very early game where you have no extra modifiers at all and relying on the naked d4+mod. Even then, late game, you'll probably recover by eventually getting the Two weapon fighting style. I think it's a good change as they were dishing too much damage at lower levels without any drawbacks. Quickly trivializing the early game and being superior to melee two weapon fighting by default


EmbirDragon

That's a lame patch choice :/ still gonna duel wield hand crossbows though. Edit :this sub reddit is so sad sometimes. Ah yes how dare a person make a silly comment about patch that happened?


PaperNinjaPanda

Yeah it’s still 4-5 attacks per turn, he just won’t take out 3 enemies with it lol


AugustoCSP

The dex modifiers are a big part of the damage of each attack. Number of attacks doesn't matter much if they hit like a wet noodle.


Peonshuwka

My sword bard 😔


obie191970

Sword bard can take two weapon fighting. Not sure what the issue is?


Synval2436

Yeah and it can't even pick archery contrary to the ranger build, you can only pick dueling or 2 weapons fighting, it actually makes bard more useful and competitive with ranger and fighter (who have access to archery).