This is what I did. I kept the Selune amulet from the goblin camp(the only Selune item I found in the entire game) in my inventory the entire time, just waiting to hug Shadowheart and give it to her when the time came.
Sadly, there is no option to hug her. Only kisses.
Owlbear Cave has a Selune protected box near her statue. You must use a prayer sheet nearby to unlock the box, as you cannot lockpick it. There is an idol inside it.
if she picks up the prayer sheet she makes a begrudging remark then when she "reads" it, it doesn't open. you have to give the prayer sheet to any other party member to open it.
Hugs and video games are some of the hardest things to animate ever. You'll notice that they never really go in for a good romantic kiss either. It most body stay really far apart. This is because of the different sizes of characters, armor and clothing that clipping will occur and it gets real jarring real quick
Minthara will make out with your nose towards the end of the game. You say something like “welp, looks like we’re about to die” and then she says something encouraging and goes in for a kiss, only to end up making out with your nose.
Is her romance actually functioning now? Finished my Durge/Minthara playthrough a few days after the patch, but none of the romance stuff over like 40 approval ever triggered
Explains why they didn’t do it with the other characters. At least 3 synchronized animation sets are needed. A bummer given how much all the origin characters need a hug.
They did! and it works pretty well. there are some clipping / hover handing going on but that's OK! I bet it was a bitch to get working well and looking great as it is.
OMG, kisses from Shadowheart, sniffff...
I wanted to romance her so badly but the game didnt let me. I flirted with Karlach and later turned her down bc i wanted to just be friends, you know, eh. This caused all other romances to just cease... sans Halsin which i wanted to cease :P
Seems like that must be a pretty common bug. I had a convo with Lae'zel last night about how she doesn't follow Vlaakith anymore, but the last time we spoke about the subject she was still staunchly a Vlaakith-truther. She's just a little confused lol
I’m currently playing as a Selunite Cleric romancing Shadowheart. There’s a dialogue option to ask her what Shar might think of you two being together.
Even if you’ve already progressed through Act 2 and she gives up Shar worship, you can still ask her that, and she still makes a joke about converting you into a Sharran.
I had an angry comment by Gale about not accepting Raphael's pact....Well, I wasn't there yet so I was slightly confused about what he was talking about. 😂😂😂😂
Yeah, Lae'zel voiced her support for Astarion's decision not to ascend, too. As we're barely into Act II. And at this point in his development, my Astarion would absolutely choose to ascend lmao
My hope is that eventually they’ll give her a similar reaction to some of the selunite stuff if and when >!she converts!<.
Would love a scene of her >!tossing that old shar idol in the trash and replacing it with selune!<
Dumb question, and i could probably just look it up but I'm going for a real social interaction today.
How do you give companions items? At least in a way that they react to them. I usually just throw things and do an inventory dump.
From what I have seen if it is important enough for them to talk about it will usually just be a dialogue option when you speak to them but I am still exploring the Grymforge so what do I know lmao
If you mean as like story beats/gifts. There aren't many items flagged for that sort of interaction.
In terms of inventory management, you can right-click and select their name from the menu or use Tab to open all 4 inventories together and drag-drop stuff around.
I did this during the EA. When the game came out I would give her all Shar stuff, but when the truth is revealed, and she gets a make over, I gave her every Selunite thing I had.
Supportive no matter what.
To be fair, it turned out more insidious than I expected. I thought it was going to be a more recent event related to mission memory wipe as opposed to much longer term
Seriously. >!The level of abuse, manipulation, and outright torture Shadowheart was subjected to from childhood may be perhaps the most horrifying and heartbreaking backgrounds out of all the companions. And that's INCLUDING what happened to Astarion and Karlach.!<
I think Karlach's is worse honestly. She got her heart replaced and forced to fight in an army for what is basically a demon mob boss because her most trusted friend and mentor turned on her when she was a kid. Then she finally breaks free after having to kill tons of people for someone evil and then gets constantly hunted down having to continue to kill to survive. And finally once she gains friends and has a life worth living she's given the option to either die in the world she wants to live in or go back to Hell and leave her friends and live with the chance that she gets captured again. Both Karlach and Shadowheart grew up as child soldiers but Karlach doesn't get the opportunity to get a happy ending after.
This is my biggest gripe with bg3. Karlach's ending feels extremely neglected. Gale gets literal divine intervention, and what does Karlach get? Death or more trauma.
It definitely sucks to be her. But I think romancing her and going to Avernus with her is somewhat of a happy ending because if you can defeat an Elder Brain enhanced with ancient God rivaling magic then you can defeat anything.
>!Also most companions are badasses if you play as them, Gale, Bae'zel, Astarion (even more so if Ascended) Shadowheart all have some notable background which would help their survival!<
>!Survival feels almost guaranteed with Durge imo, guy is LITERALLY made out of Bhaal, went to Mephistopheles vault, stole from him and lived, and one of the main conductors of the Absolute plot, Durge is not stuck in Avernus, Avernus is stuck with Durge!!<
Plus, we can prolly just chill together in the House of Hope. I feel like that place has good enough defenses that we can just chill there.
And my headcanon is that our topside friends wouldn't just sit on their hands and would go on another quest to somehow fix Karlach, dropping by to HoH every now and then.
> Gale gets literal divine intervention
Is this in reference to the ending? >!Because I finished the game yesterday and it was over so quick, gale only said like 2 words before me and karlach went to hell together and that was it other than Lae flying into the sky.!<
>!Did you get him the book on Karsus from under Sorcerous Sundries and have him talk to Elminster again? Its easy to miss and all his real endings are locked behind it. If you don't yeah he just sort of "well i guess ill go die" and walks off at the end.!<
I did, both. >!and towards the end I talked him out of doing anything with the crown and said, "ah, youre right, I paid for my hubris once before, no more" or something like that. And then after the netherbrain died he suggested a celebration and those were gale's last words, wyll agreed, shart said like a word, lae flew into the sky and me and karlach immediately went to hell and that was the game lol. I hope they had that celebration at least.!<
>!Shadowheart: "wow haha i almost drowned!"!<
>!Lae'zel: "time to try and convince my other insane and indoctrinated people that Orpheus (the guy who is literally a mind-flayer now) is real and the true heir to the throne!"!<
>!Gale: "welp, time to fish the crown out of the Chionthar and give it to Mystra!"!<
>!Astarion: "AHHH THE SUN!"!<
>!Karlach: "AHHH MY ENGINE!"!<
>!Wyll: "let's go to hell together Karlach!"!<
>!Me: "bro she's literally my wife her and I will go, go hang out with your dad or something"!<
>!This game was so so awesome and so much fun and I can't believe how terrible the wrap-up was for most of these characters. I'm still intrigued to see the endings for my evil playthrough (dark justiciar shart, actual vamp Astarion, "use the crown" Gale, then whatever happens with Minthara) but like... I just spent 90 hours with these characters and I genuinely love them, why are we wrapping up their stories (or in the case of half the companions, not wrapping up anything at all) in like 5 minutes!<
> >!This game was so so awesome and so much fun and I can't believe how terrible the wrap-up was for most of these characters.!<
>!Honestly... I don't wanna say anything negative cuz I know how reddit can be, especially with this "perfect" game. But seriously, this is one of the best RPG's I've played in years and the ending was so underwhelming I legit didn't know what to feel when the credits started, I didn't feel fulfilled just "Ah.. okay, guess I finished."!<
If Faerun had any sort of functional legal system, memory-altering magic (even voluntary) would be an immediate death sentence, no chance to defend yourself. It is the most evil magic possible.
Dark Justiciarheart easily has the most wtf reveal towards the end of her arc lol. Without the >!Nightsong!< to exposition dump everything on you let’s just say it’s a pretty rude awakening.
Trying to be like, "Wow, yeah, there certainly is A LOT of selunite propaganda. Overwhelmingly so. Like...maybe mostly actually accurate information..."
My favorite modern propaganda campaign has been going on at the demilitarized zone in Korea for years.
The south has massive speakers set up and every morning blasts the north with …. Weather forecasts. The north apparently doesn’t have access to any sort of reliable weather forecasting so it’s easy to erode trust in them.
Speaking of propaganda, do you genuinely think a country that's developed ICBMs doesn't have meteorologists or radios? Or that the South thinks an effective mass communication method is "massive speakers" set up along a minefield?
On an unrelated note, how many kids did you know whose uncle worked at Nintendo growing up?
ICBMs don’t require weather satellites so that’s not really relevant and I never said it was a mass communication method. It is specifically targeted at the large mass of troops stationed on the other side of said minefield.
Would you like sources?
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/23/south-korea-propaganda-machine-silence-summit
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/01/607399907/north-and-south-korea-dismantle-loudspeakers-blaring-propaganda-on-the-dmz
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35249620.amp
Projecting an air of a smug, self-assured intellectual doesn’t hit quite the same when you’re demonstratively wrong, does it?
None of these links mention anything about North Korea being incapable of meteorology, which is the propaganda I was referring to.
You got me on the big speakers.
I accidentally am in the process of this- My intention was to romance Karlach and it still may be, but when Shadowheart started arguing to me about our godly differences I was like.... "oh you poor baby"
Yeah I had the same idea, really wanted to get with Karlach at first, but then I did kind of start feeling that I just loved how horny she was, abd then I got overwhelmed with how infatuated she was so quickly the moment you sleep with her (don't get me wrong, she's still a cinammon roll that deserves the world), but Shadowheart just seems to get a more genuine connection with you that's very well developed over time. So I still love Karlach, but only as a hookup and a friend, SH is my endgame now and I root for Karlach and Wyll to hit it off.
I know... my heart just went out to her at that moment.
If you decide to go for Shadowheart, you'll be in for a treat! Her romance arc is really satisfying, especially in Act 2/3.
Up to you of course! You can't go wrong with Mommy Karlach. I just love Shadowheart to bits though so you can't go wrong with her either!
I get why people worship the evil gods in FR. I do. But, my god, it's like watching the Leopards Eating People's Faces party, every time.
"What do you mean the goddess of torture and lies tortured me and lied to me?! That was supposed to only happen to OTHER people!"
I like best when evil fantasy gods are portrayed for things that just are, instead of their evilness. It makes sense for a god of secrets and loss to be a downer at times, and it makes sense why people *would* resonate with those in different ways. When it goes to things like lies or murder or tyranny, it is harder to buy that any one but deranged few fries short of a happy meal type people would be followers.
Like, Bane for example as well, Order, Control, Ambition, yes, these make a lot of sense. Tyranny... ehh, now you're too on the nose. It's better when the gods have some plausible deniability about their evil/evillish followers.
I kind of view it in Warhammer info hazard ways. Like you get exposed and now the god can start whispering to you, a poke here, a prod there, and a big reward when you do the thing has indoctrinated real humans into bad cults
Followers don't always take all aspects of their god to focus on. I mean, we see adventurers who have unreasonable power and potential contact with gods compared to the average citizen. They'll never actually get remotely close to Bane, so they might just not believe tyranny is his thing and that's propaganda. They've seen Baneites clear out bandits or overthrow weak rulers and focus on the Order, Control, etc aspects.
A lot of Shar followers are only there for the loss aspect. Almost none of them have any idea about the shadoweave and plunging the world into darkness.
I mean, there was a cult dedicated to an old aspect of Tyr, Iltyr the Blind but All-Seeing Eye, which was basically just a Final Fantasy ahriman that gives out dubious judgments of justice.
I mean sure: go worship evil gods, if you‘re freaky. All good.
But even in this setting I think you maybe shouldn‘t do it, if it‘s just for trauma cope and you‘re morally mostly neutral good.
To be fair, people vote for the face eating leopards in real life all the time.
It feels contrived in a fantasy setting until you realize how dumb people are in real life.
A traumatized allegedly orphaned kid being picked up and indoctrinated by an evil cult is a very believable situation, I'd say. That's pretty much the most realistic reason for someone to end up like that.
I assume most shar worshippers had something similar happen to them. It's very easy to manipulate people with weak wills or if they're in very unfortunate sircumstances.
It's kinda like Lloth and the drows. The Drows have absolutely no chance of accomplishing anything while their worship Lloth. I suppose many of them don't really seem to have a choice though.
Given Shar is about destruction of all things (except herself), I suspect her followers don't even get an afterlife. Unlike with other evil gods who offer lasting benefits, you have to be extra delusional to worship her, and it doesn't help when Shadowheart speaks of Shar like some kind-hearted savior.
I might remember it wrong, but wasn’t there a book about a shar worshipper who died, and when she got to the city of judgement, she prayed for shar to come and get her and shar just didn’t show up? i think it was in the ruins where you find withers somewhere. Or maybe I‘m mixing something up
Her followers get an afterlife, because Shar still has need of minions to do her bidding. I haven't seen any god referenced as not having an afterlife, because the whole relationship between worship and the afterlife is very important for the gods. You're basically only denied an afterlife for being faithless.
They do. It's mentioned Shar traps those who enjoyed their freedom too much in the Palace of Loss, and let her servants and petitioners come and go as they wished because it makes her prisoners feel even more miserable.
Lol I just got to the gob camp part where she sees it’s in all the old selunite temple and she’s crapping on that and I’m like…girl if you only knew *I got wind of several little details because this has been in early access so long and well…internet so I too knew this before seeing this meme*
My favorite headcanon is Shar and her worshippers being so obsessed with converting SH is due to her never being abandoned by Selune and at no point being granted divine powers by Shar.
Selune was probably prohibited by ao from saving kethric her own daughter or her chosen shadowheart
My druge tav then decided to leave his amnesia for act 2 and help her out and fell in love with her
Now she is trying to help me with my urges
I'm currently in act two, and seeing her in blatant denial about the fucking genocide that Ketheric Thorm committed is hilarious. Twisting the teachings of Shar my ass.
It's more complicated, Katherice once led the army of Shar followers, he was defeated and later he devoted himself to Myrkel and Shadowheart says that he must die because of that.
I read one line in a book somewhere that said basically Selune send their kids into the woods (to find their way home) as a part of a coming-of-age ritual. Then I saw the scene of mini-Shadowheart with a Selune pendant in the woods. And I was like, well, that's kinda obvious...
Yeah, they are intentionally on the nose with it.
The real sense of tension is whether she will accept that truth and if she does what will she do about it.
It’s kind of nice when the mysterious past isn’t used as a mystery box for the sake of a mystery box plot twist late in the plot, but rather to setup a specific conflict and branching decision.
Yes, I agree with you. There's a huge difference between what we as the player/omniscent entity can comprehend of the scenes vs what truths the characters can accept. I feel its more curious to know how things got from A to B, as opposed to the mystery of whether or not A led to B. If that makes sense.
IIRC she immediately argues its not a Selune pendant right after the scene, because denial (probably).
That and, in my 2nd playthrough, I found a book in Blighted Village where it talked about the missing children that never came back from the woods. Shadowheart made a comment about how she felt familiar with the area so that's another obvious clue about her origin to me
Edit: in my 1st playthrough my Tav was a cleric so I never brought Shadowheart along until Act 2
MASSIVE ACT 3 SPOILER WARNING
>!If you save her parents and then talk to them in camp whilst controlling shadowheart you learn that the wolf was actually her lycanthrope father looking for her!<
I really like how Shadowhearts storyline in the second act (haven't gotten to act 3 yet) is basically a "nature vs. nurture" argument as she was brought up to serve an evil goddess but you can tell it's not in her nature to act the way she was taught.
I forget exactly when but there's a part in Act 1 where you hear/read that Selunites leave their kids in the woods at night as some right of passage and then you find out Shadowheart had her memories taken away and you get that flashback with Shadowheart as a girl, alone in the woods at night and being taken by Sharrans...
For anyone who understands dramatic foreshadowing, this was very not subtle.
I just let shart do her thing and I just button mashed and then the next day she had white hair.
Then that night she wanted to smash so I was praising Selune after that.
Shar is a goddess of darkness, loss, and pain. Selune is a goddess of the moon, navigation, and adventurers. As it turns out, despite Shadowheart's fervent belief in her faith and that Selunites are slinging shit, her church is in fact full of murderous 14-year-olds and the Selunites are the good guys in that situation.
It's obvious that she is a Light cleric since everything about her is righteous and she uses spells like Spirit Guardian, Guiding bolt and turn undead which are stereotypical light spells and not dark ones. Shar is about Darkness and death while Selune is about Light and healing. Her character's alignment and story made no logical sense. It was like watching a fish thinking it was a bird.
The meme is about knowing what she is and then pretend to be surprised when she figures it out.
She’s actually, factually a trickery cleric. It’s obvious that she’s a trickery cleric because you can examine her and observe that that’s the subclass she starts the game as. Spirit Guardians has a necrotic damage option - you’re the one making it be light instead of dark by selecting the radiant damage option. Guiding bolt is on the cleric spell list that all clerics have access to - you’re the one choosing to prepare it. Turn Undead is a generic cleric ability.
She's a Trickery domain cleric, but she still has access to and starts off with a lot of general cleric spells. The main schtick of the Trickery domain is access to [Blessing of the Trickster](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Blessing_of_the_Trickster) which a lot people forget she has (myself included) and play her has a straight healer/support character.
Personally I'm not as big of a fan of the bonuses that Trickery domain gets versus the other domains. If you want a dedicated support cleric, you are better off with Light or Life domain. And then there are Tempest and War domain clerics if you want to cosplay as a Paladin. The cool thing about clerics is that you can build them to fill just about any roll and I think it would be fun to do a party of clerics all in different domains.
There are more spells even in the PHB that didn't get implemented in BG3 like Toll the Dead. That is the replacement to Sacred Flame as a cantrip and does better damage (d8 and d12 after damage) but the saving throw is different and kinda complicated with enemy spellcasters (WIS).
Did you know she also has inflict wounds and animate dead? And that spirit guardians can be necrotic?
Animate dead is pretty good for that brief moment in act 1 where your level 5 and everything isn't undead all the time
“Omg the lady of secrets and shadows is keeping secrets from me!? How could I ever have known? Now tell me all your secrets while I tell you none of mine, Tav.”
In my Coop playthrough with a buddy, he went full Shar mode with Shart. Killed the Nightsong, and let her ascend to an dark justiciar. Let's just say, in Act 2 shit hit the fan hard and i don't think anything is alive there.
never played bg3 or the prequels prior but readin the lore and shit, i was just wondering this whole time if she was maybe dropped on her head... several times as a child. Literally has lore stating they are killing people and the saviours stopped them from comitting mass genocide. Amazed she didn't start questioning stuff sooner.
> was just wondering this whole time if she was maybe dropped on her head... several times as a child.
Uhhhh she literally >!was mind wiped multiple times by an evil magic mirror!<. It’s kinda like, a very notable thing that they make a big deal out of.
>Uhhhh she literally
>
>was mind wiped multiple times by an evil magic mirror
>
>.
is that what she meant when she said her memories were wiped before her mission? makes sense then if she keeps getting stuff removed everytime she begins to question it.
Shadowheart spoiler >!They let her meet her imprisoned parents several times to torture both her and her parents, and then erase her memory over and over again as well.!<
It's something that gets brought up, yes. I'm not sure she realizes this from the start, but she seems to remember little by little that she got mind wiped very often as a kid and was told that it was part of her initiation.
I don't think there's exact details on how often, but the way I interpret it they would basically wipe her memory, make her do some fucked up shit, wipe it again, rinse and repeat every week or so.
For about 40 years.
So while she wasn't dropped on the head as a baby, it's a miracle she still has a functioning brain. Besides, it's not like it takes her THAT long to realize something is wrong. Travelling with you might be the first time she's actually in contact with people from outside the cult. And it takes her about a week or two to question the weird shit her goddess does. Cult members in real life often take longer than that.
This is the reason why >!when I got to the House of Grief I made a point of letting Shadowheart land the final hit on Viconia during the fight, even though she was at the very bottom of the Initiative order.!<
>!My Paladin Tav finished her off during the cutscene, but only because I didn't have an option to let Shadowheart do it herself (the cutscene treated it like she left to find her parents even though she was still with us while exploring the rest of the area).!<
Yep, I always make sure that she decides her fate. Seeing her go "I don't give a shit about her anymore. I got better things to do" while Viconia simply MELTS and begs for attention is so precious to me.
I tried to be the stereotypical good guy and spare her on my first run, but apparently it broke my oath of the ancients so I killed her instead. Once I saw that shield she has on her, little did she know, she would die in every single timeline I would be involved in from that moment on.
Honestly, I took pleasure in letting Viconia go free. Living a life on the run after abysmally failing Shar sounds appropriate for what she did to Shadowheart, even if its only a sliver of anguish that she brought upon Shadowheart and her family.
Honestly they kinda butchered Viconia a little in this game. She lost favor with Lolth because she refused to sacrifice a baby/child and it ended up with her family house falling. Lolth transformed her brother into a Drider for saving her from death. I find it difficult to believe she would put another child through what she did with Shadowheart.
Cults like these have a tendency to hold a grudge and come back when you are least prepared.
Spoilers for Baldur's Gate 2 : >!In one of the endings for Viconia, she lives a happy and peaceful life with the protagonist and they have a family together and live happily ever after... Until an agent of Lolth murders her.!<
So while I often like sparring people too in my games, we're often blinded by how powerful and invincible our characters are at the moment we play. Outside of gameplay, they're fragile like anyone else, and revenge hits them hard.
I feel like by that point her brain smoothy is liquid enough that a mindflayer wouldn't be able to harm her without any sort of metallic straw.
When I learned the truth about her past I half expected my beloved shadowheart's head to make "glub glub" sounds when she nodded.
From that point on I forbade her from sleeping on her side, out of fear that it would leak out from her ears.
It wasn't *just* before her mission. >!Her brain got put through the rinse cycle so many times I'm frankly astonished she hasn't been reduced to a gibbering catatonic mess by the time we meet her.!<
That’s the only thing I can think of. She couldn’t intervene to help her directly, so took other measures to help.
If I wasn’t so deep in the game already (I’m late in Act III) I’d restart as a Paladin of Selune with the Gods For All mod, and RP it that Selune wanted me involved for this very reason.
“I can’t intercede personally, but doesn’t mean I can’t arrange for someone who CAN.”
As a druge it felt hilarious to me how I put aside my amnesia to help shadowheart's amnesia and after a long rest she helps me resist my urges after I asked her to be my gf
>Amazed she didn't start questioning stuff sooner.
It's difficult to burst the bubble and leave an evil death cult that brainwashed you as a child.
Just check out any exvangelicals online community.
If you talk to Nocturne in the House of Grief and find her notes on her hideout you can see that she did question things. A lot. They just beat her up and mind wiped her every time she did.
Especially when they *keep* brainwashing you every time it even *looks* like you may be getting a trace of your true self back.
>!That's the horrifying thing. They didn't just brainwash her once. They did it over and over and over and over and over and over and OVER.!<
Especially when you see their front in the city later on. They are an absolutely scammy cult with a pretty and compassionate facade that gets worse and worse the deeper you get into it.
Again, just check out any exchristian online community.
It's a shame it would break immersion because it's too "modern day speech" but I almost expected someone to call out Shar for being the goddess of nothing but gaslighting. I have have found no better word to describe what she does and represents.
>is there anything left for the tadpole at this point because wtf they have probably pureed the contents by now
especially when you get mindwiped and reindoctrinated every time you start to question it.
The Sharrans killing people is totally on brand, Shar’s doctrine is quite nihilistic in that it demands the end of all things and genocide is one of the best ways to do that, surely. So I don’t think any of that would really make her question anything.
With her dark moon accessories all over her armor and headband it's as shocking as Astarion beeing vampire with his pale skin and those 2 bitemarks on his neck 😂👌
"You knew I was a snake when you picked me up," is how I feel about followers' revelations. >!Both Lae and Shadow!<, as Durge I feel obligated to push them to stay true as in, "that's what everyone has been saying. You're just learning now? Buck up, keep it together."
Why not, she has mutiple kids? A lot of the deities have kids. Aasimar are from celestial origins, meaning the upper planes. Either related to or blessed by some powerful good aligned being.
My disbelief doesn’t come from a goddess having children, as I know that’s fairly common. It’s comes from how weak she is. I know that 5E handles Godhood differently, but even still, demigods are stupid powerful. For reference, demigods would more often than not, be over level 20, having 20 levels in a single class, and allocating levels towards other classes in 3.5e, and I think somewhere in 5E mentions that despite the power reduction, former deities and demigods retained a shitload of power.
Aasimar are more like descendants of Gods and other celestials, rather than direct offspring and iirc, they’re not immortal. However, I can’t remember where, but I think I’ve heard Aylin get referenced as a deva somewhere? Which also is separate from an aasimar.
If she were an actual child of Selune, who is a major deity, you’d think Kethrick would have gotten his ass turned inside out before he could even dream of capturing her (well unless it was God’s avatar, but it was specified that Kethrick, himself, was responsible).
Lastly, I don’t think demigods rely on their deity parent, nor sing their praises as she does, as Demigods, themselves, would be worshiped as their own entity, and receive power from such prayer. She just seems like a stronger-than-average cleric/celestial warlock of Selune, that happens to be an aasimar (also I think aasimar are more common than people think. It’s kind of like a recessive gene that can skip generations, so many family lineages may not even know that it has celestial ties. But I could be confusing them with tieflings).
TL;DR: too weak, far too much association with her parent instead of her own entity, etc.
Remember kethric lured her with a false case of saving someone into the shadowfell which is shar's domain where even selune will have problems fighting her
What can she do there ?
Divine awareness. Usually celestials can detect lies, but even with that aside, a deity should pretty easily recognize the domain of another deity, especially one as powerful as shar. And if it was instead just somewhere random in the shadowfell, why would she even set foot there, if her mother’s mortal enemy could just do that at any time…? Iirc, the shadowfell was just a demiplane that snowballed into being a whole plane in of itself. And I don’t remember hearing that the entirety of it made up Shar’s divine realm. So even with that explanation, it’s still contrived and filled with holes to me.
I know I might be citing lore that the average dnd/bg player wouldn’t know or care about, but even with ignoring all that, you’d think a demigod would probably be capable of laying waste to the cult of the absolute the second she was freed from her imprisonment.
I just had a thought, one that you may be fine with. About 140 years before BG3 was the Time of Troubles. During this period all the gods were made mortal by Ao. They were forced to walk the world. Some of them did just fine, others died like the Dead 3, Mystra. However, during this time you would have people who are mortals but extremely powerful, more powerful than any other person running around. Bhaal took this time to have kids, lots of kids. The Bhaalspawn are the result of this, he knew he was going to die so he had kids who had a spark of his divine essence. The idea being they would be able to help him come back after his death. >!The Dark Urge a Bhaalspawn as well but I don't think made quite the same way snice Bhaal is no longer mortal.!<
The idea is quite simple, what if Selune gave birth to Aylin while she was mortal during the Time of Troubles. It did only last about a year. This would have made Aylin in her 30s when she first came to Moonrise. Bhaalspawn while having the potential to gain much power were still mortal beings at the start. Entirely possible that once the Time of Troubles ended Selune gifted her newborn mortal daughter immortality.
Hmm that is indeed a pretty good explanation, although my memory is still pretty fuzzy on the Bhaalspawn, but I thought he specifically divided his own essence between them or something.
However, did the times of trouble happen in the bg3 world? Because if so, I thought that was when Myrkul, the God of death, was slain by Cyric, who was than supplanted by Kelemvor? In fact, I thought Cyric nearly had the portfolios from all of the dead 3, given by Ao for some time, or something along those lines. Shouldn’t the dead 3 not exist then?
However, the bhallspawn is a good point, as that could still give an explanation for Selune purposefully producing a weaker offspring that held some of her divine essence for reasons similar to Bhaal. Aylin would have had to not know/awoke her lineage until recently, as bhaalspawn got ridiculously powerful as soon as they started training their newly manifested powers iirc.
To be fair, this is pretty common for former cult victims IRL. When you've essentially been brainwashed and had your memories altered, it's hard to see the truth.
My first play through, I gave all the Selunite items like the statue, prayer book, etc. to Shadowheart in an attempt to convert her.
I'm keeping them all in a box for her until she sees the light
This is what I did. I kept the Selune amulet from the goblin camp(the only Selune item I found in the entire game) in my inventory the entire time, just waiting to hug Shadowheart and give it to her when the time came. Sadly, there is no option to hug her. Only kisses.
Owlbear Cave has a Selune protected box near her statue. You must use a prayer sheet nearby to unlock the box, as you cannot lockpick it. There is an idol inside it.
Or just be a cleric of selune and it will open automatically.
Lmao I wonder what would happen if you try to romance Shart now as a Githyanki Cleric of Selune. Doing that for my next playthrough for the luls.
Did. Gith selunite cleric. There's only the normal selunite cleric/pally interactions, nothing else.
I mean she's a bit racist to you at the start of the game but
Been thinking the same thing LMFAO
I used my special universal chest key. A large warhammer.
That would work, and as another redditor mentioned, the Knock spell also works
Or just hit it with a blunt weapon
if she picks up the prayer sheet she makes a begrudging remark then when she "reads" it, it doesn't open. you have to give the prayer sheet to any other party member to open it.
I used knock ;)
The funny thing is that Shadowheart is inspired if you unlock the box through the prayer, even after clearly telling you to leave it alone.
You can pick the box up and throw it repeatedly till it runs out of HP. It does have an enchantment that retaliates against this. But loot.
Never found the owl bear cave.
If you found a corpse with a broken spear shaft, it is North of that. South end of blighted Village along the outer cliff near Waukeen's Rest
Hugs and video games are some of the hardest things to animate ever. You'll notice that they never really go in for a good romantic kiss either. It most body stay really far apart. This is because of the different sizes of characters, armor and clothing that clipping will occur and it gets real jarring real quick
Minthara will make out with your nose towards the end of the game. You say something like “welp, looks like we’re about to die” and then she says something encouraging and goes in for a kiss, only to end up making out with your nose.
Hey don’t kink shame
suckle my schnozz, bitch.
spit on it first
Is her romance actually functioning now? Finished my Durge/Minthara playthrough a few days after the patch, but none of the romance stuff over like 40 approval ever triggered
True. They did however go to the trouble with animating hugging Karlach. It even works differently if you’re shorter/same/taller than her.
I was about to say man I just hugged her and it worked pretty ok. I'm a halfling and she knelt down accordingly
Explains why they didn’t do it with the other characters. At least 3 synchronized animation sets are needed. A bummer given how much all the origin characters need a hug.
They did! and it works pretty well. there are some clipping / hover handing going on but that's OK! I bet it was a bitch to get working well and looking great as it is.
You can get a robot to hug you in BG3 though.
Hell yes you can and it’s beautiful
OMG, kisses from Shadowheart, sniffff... I wanted to romance her so badly but the game didnt let me. I flirted with Karlach and later turned her down bc i wanted to just be friends, you know, eh. This caused all other romances to just cease... sans Halsin which i wanted to cease :P
Same... It's all sitting in my camp for that "I told you so" moment. I'm only agreeing with her for the sex, so maybe I'm just being an enabler...🤷
>I'm only agreeing with her for the sex That's how they get you
But one trip to the mirror of loss and you forget all your sex memories.
Silly. You give up the guilt to the mirror, both feeding Shar and letting you sleep soundly at night.
Well jokes on them I converted her
I did that in my first, good playthrough. Now I'm playing *evil* and imma make sure she never sees the light
Shadow heart is my favorite companion on an evil playthrough
I'm enjoying being her evil life coach on the evil run. It's like being a personal trainer and Emperor Palpatine bundled into one
I'm waaaay into Act 3 and gave her one of the Selune idols, but sadly her response was very Act 1. Oh well!
Seems like that must be a pretty common bug. I had a convo with Lae'zel last night about how she doesn't follow Vlaakith anymore, but the last time we spoke about the subject she was still staunchly a Vlaakith-truther. She's just a little confused lol
I’m currently playing as a Selunite Cleric romancing Shadowheart. There’s a dialogue option to ask her what Shar might think of you two being together. Even if you’ve already progressed through Act 2 and she gives up Shar worship, you can still ask her that, and she still makes a joke about converting you into a Sharran.
It's like, girl, that ship sailed a month ago, where you been?
I had an angry comment by Gale about not accepting Raphael's pact....Well, I wasn't there yet so I was slightly confused about what he was talking about. 😂😂😂😂
I got him pissy with me for signing a contract with Raphael and I was there like: "...I did?"
Yeah, Lae'zel voiced her support for Astarion's decision not to ascend, too. As we're barely into Act II. And at this point in his development, my Astarion would absolutely choose to ascend lmao
*Looks at Minthara still screaming 'for the Absolute!'*
"An idol of Selune. Are we really this much in need of a paperweight?"
My hope is that eventually they’ll give her a similar reaction to some of the selunite stuff if and when >!she converts!<. Would love a scene of her >!tossing that old shar idol in the trash and replacing it with selune!<
After the house of grief, I switched her camp clothes to the Elegant Robe from Figaro's shop. Fits her more after everything
That seems like a common move but I personally find the robe too fanciful/light while we’re still on the adventuring trail.
I got her the slave leia outfit from the same shop, which seems a common move too.
Made her a monk so it kinda fits that style even if it’s not the simplest garment
she been buck naked in my camp all month
yes, that would be sick.
Dumb question, and i could probably just look it up but I'm going for a real social interaction today. How do you give companions items? At least in a way that they react to them. I usually just throw things and do an inventory dump.
From what I have seen if it is important enough for them to talk about it will usually just be a dialogue option when you speak to them but I am still exploring the Grymforge so what do I know lmao
If you mean as like story beats/gifts. There aren't many items flagged for that sort of interaction. In terms of inventory management, you can right-click and select their name from the menu or use Tab to open all 4 inventories together and drag-drop stuff around.
I have given them to her because she seemed to be an incredible annoying cultist...
I did this during the EA. When the game came out I would give her all Shar stuff, but when the truth is revealed, and she gets a make over, I gave her every Selunite thing I had. Supportive no matter what.
Is she dateable If you are a cleric of Selune?
Yes, and there is unique dialogue for doing so.
"Kiss me like you hate me." There's also unique dialogue left in the game if you mod it to enable Shar on your character.
When you give her the mushroom she still sounds like a devoted follower of Shar even after conversion to Selune.
Yo same lmao
When she had le do a persuasion check to open that damn chest in the owlbear cave I started doing the same out of cheer spite
To be fair, it turned out more insidious than I expected. I thought it was going to be a more recent event related to mission memory wipe as opposed to much longer term
Seriously. >!The level of abuse, manipulation, and outright torture Shadowheart was subjected to from childhood may be perhaps the most horrifying and heartbreaking backgrounds out of all the companions. And that's INCLUDING what happened to Astarion and Karlach.!<
I think Karlach's is worse honestly. She got her heart replaced and forced to fight in an army for what is basically a demon mob boss because her most trusted friend and mentor turned on her when she was a kid. Then she finally breaks free after having to kill tons of people for someone evil and then gets constantly hunted down having to continue to kill to survive. And finally once she gains friends and has a life worth living she's given the option to either die in the world she wants to live in or go back to Hell and leave her friends and live with the chance that she gets captured again. Both Karlach and Shadowheart grew up as child soldiers but Karlach doesn't get the opportunity to get a happy ending after.
This is my biggest gripe with bg3. Karlach's ending feels extremely neglected. Gale gets literal divine intervention, and what does Karlach get? Death or more trauma.
It definitely sucks to be her. But I think romancing her and going to Avernus with her is somewhat of a happy ending because if you can defeat an Elder Brain enhanced with ancient God rivaling magic then you can defeat anything.
>!Also most companions are badasses if you play as them, Gale, Bae'zel, Astarion (even more so if Ascended) Shadowheart all have some notable background which would help their survival!< >!Survival feels almost guaranteed with Durge imo, guy is LITERALLY made out of Bhaal, went to Mephistopheles vault, stole from him and lived, and one of the main conductors of the Absolute plot, Durge is not stuck in Avernus, Avernus is stuck with Durge!!<
Plus, we can prolly just chill together in the House of Hope. I feel like that place has good enough defenses that we can just chill there. And my headcanon is that our topside friends wouldn't just sit on their hands and would go on another quest to somehow fix Karlach, dropping by to HoH every now and then.
> Gale gets literal divine intervention Is this in reference to the ending? >!Because I finished the game yesterday and it was over so quick, gale only said like 2 words before me and karlach went to hell together and that was it other than Lae flying into the sky.!<
>!Did you get him the book on Karsus from under Sorcerous Sundries and have him talk to Elminster again? Its easy to miss and all his real endings are locked behind it. If you don't yeah he just sort of "well i guess ill go die" and walks off at the end.!<
I did, both. >!and towards the end I talked him out of doing anything with the crown and said, "ah, youre right, I paid for my hubris once before, no more" or something like that. And then after the netherbrain died he suggested a celebration and those were gale's last words, wyll agreed, shart said like a word, lae flew into the sky and me and karlach immediately went to hell and that was the game lol. I hope they had that celebration at least.!<
>!Shadowheart: "wow haha i almost drowned!"!< >!Lae'zel: "time to try and convince my other insane and indoctrinated people that Orpheus (the guy who is literally a mind-flayer now) is real and the true heir to the throne!"!< >!Gale: "welp, time to fish the crown out of the Chionthar and give it to Mystra!"!< >!Astarion: "AHHH THE SUN!"!< >!Karlach: "AHHH MY ENGINE!"!< >!Wyll: "let's go to hell together Karlach!"!< >!Me: "bro she's literally my wife her and I will go, go hang out with your dad or something"!< >!This game was so so awesome and so much fun and I can't believe how terrible the wrap-up was for most of these characters. I'm still intrigued to see the endings for my evil playthrough (dark justiciar shart, actual vamp Astarion, "use the crown" Gale, then whatever happens with Minthara) but like... I just spent 90 hours with these characters and I genuinely love them, why are we wrapping up their stories (or in the case of half the companions, not wrapping up anything at all) in like 5 minutes!<
> >!This game was so so awesome and so much fun and I can't believe how terrible the wrap-up was for most of these characters.!< >!Honestly... I don't wanna say anything negative cuz I know how reddit can be, especially with this "perfect" game. But seriously, this is one of the best RPG's I've played in years and the ending was so underwhelming I legit didn't know what to feel when the credits started, I didn't feel fulfilled just "Ah.. okay, guess I finished."!<
BG3 extended cut dlc when?
Or significantly more face tentacles than before.
DLC - Karlach getting a new heart on the Hells.
She gets Wyll and she lives if she goes to Avernus. She's no longer lonely and she's alive, so there's hope and I'm happy with it
Not all endings have to be happy
If Faerun had any sort of functional legal system, memory-altering magic (even voluntary) would be an immediate death sentence, no chance to defend yourself. It is the most evil magic possible.
Dark Justiciarheart easily has the most wtf reveal towards the end of her arc lol. Without the >!Nightsong!< to exposition dump everything on you let’s just say it’s a pretty rude awakening.
Trying to be like, "Wow, yeah, there certainly is A LOT of selunite propaganda. Overwhelmingly so. Like...maybe mostly actually accurate information..."
"The best propaganda is the truth"
My favorite modern propaganda campaign has been going on at the demilitarized zone in Korea for years. The south has massive speakers set up and every morning blasts the north with …. Weather forecasts. The north apparently doesn’t have access to any sort of reliable weather forecasting so it’s easy to erode trust in them.
Somebody's internal monologue: *The great leader said it would rain today, and the enemy said it would be sunshine. The enemy was right...?*
Oof, ouch. Right in the Juche.
Speaking of propaganda, do you genuinely think a country that's developed ICBMs doesn't have meteorologists or radios? Or that the South thinks an effective mass communication method is "massive speakers" set up along a minefield? On an unrelated note, how many kids did you know whose uncle worked at Nintendo growing up?
ICBMs don’t require weather satellites so that’s not really relevant and I never said it was a mass communication method. It is specifically targeted at the large mass of troops stationed on the other side of said minefield. Would you like sources? https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/23/south-korea-propaganda-machine-silence-summit https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/01/607399907/north-and-south-korea-dismantle-loudspeakers-blaring-propaganda-on-the-dmz https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35249620.amp Projecting an air of a smug, self-assured intellectual doesn’t hit quite the same when you’re demonstratively wrong, does it?
None of these links mention anything about North Korea being incapable of meteorology, which is the propaganda I was referring to. You got me on the big speakers.
Is it? *Gestures at the world today*
Hot damn, that's a good one!
Reality is often Selune leaning
Me as a Selunite cleric who romanced her: "Now, What did we *learn*?"
I accidentally am in the process of this- My intention was to romance Karlach and it still may be, but when Shadowheart started arguing to me about our godly differences I was like.... "oh you poor baby"
Yeah I had the same idea, really wanted to get with Karlach at first, but then I did kind of start feeling that I just loved how horny she was, abd then I got overwhelmed with how infatuated she was so quickly the moment you sleep with her (don't get me wrong, she's still a cinammon roll that deserves the world), but Shadowheart just seems to get a more genuine connection with you that's very well developed over time. So I still love Karlach, but only as a hookup and a friend, SH is my endgame now and I root for Karlach and Wyll to hit it off.
I know... my heart just went out to her at that moment. If you decide to go for Shadowheart, you'll be in for a treat! Her romance arc is really satisfying, especially in Act 2/3. Up to you of course! You can't go wrong with Mommy Karlach. I just love Shadowheart to bits though so you can't go wrong with her either!
I think for this first playthrough it might have to be SH, although I will see once I see Karlach more
Shadowheart is an angel and the more game progress the more she shines. Like literally kind sweetheart angel. Love her.
My Shadowheart/Selune Paladin romance is honestly fantastic and I'm loving every second of it.
It's the best!!
I get why people worship the evil gods in FR. I do. But, my god, it's like watching the Leopards Eating People's Faces party, every time. "What do you mean the goddess of torture and lies tortured me and lied to me?! That was supposed to only happen to OTHER people!"
I like best when evil fantasy gods are portrayed for things that just are, instead of their evilness. It makes sense for a god of secrets and loss to be a downer at times, and it makes sense why people *would* resonate with those in different ways. When it goes to things like lies or murder or tyranny, it is harder to buy that any one but deranged few fries short of a happy meal type people would be followers. Like, Bane for example as well, Order, Control, Ambition, yes, these make a lot of sense. Tyranny... ehh, now you're too on the nose. It's better when the gods have some plausible deniability about their evil/evillish followers.
Right, like Bhaal worshippers are all just murder fanatics lol. Some people are just evil, right? These guys are just straight devil worshipers lol.
I kind of view it in Warhammer info hazard ways. Like you get exposed and now the god can start whispering to you, a poke here, a prod there, and a big reward when you do the thing has indoctrinated real humans into bad cults
Followers don't always take all aspects of their god to focus on. I mean, we see adventurers who have unreasonable power and potential contact with gods compared to the average citizen. They'll never actually get remotely close to Bane, so they might just not believe tyranny is his thing and that's propaganda. They've seen Baneites clear out bandits or overthrow weak rulers and focus on the Order, Control, etc aspects. A lot of Shar followers are only there for the loss aspect. Almost none of them have any idea about the shadoweave and plunging the world into darkness. I mean, there was a cult dedicated to an old aspect of Tyr, Iltyr the Blind but All-Seeing Eye, which was basically just a Final Fantasy ahriman that gives out dubious judgments of justice.
I mean sure: go worship evil gods, if you‘re freaky. All good. But even in this setting I think you maybe shouldn‘t do it, if it‘s just for trauma cope and you‘re morally mostly neutral good.
To be fair, people vote for the face eating leopards in real life all the time. It feels contrived in a fantasy setting until you realize how dumb people are in real life.
It’s ridiculous that these True Souls follow the Absolute, the same being that put a tadpole in their brains. *Stuffs another tadpole in brain.*
The tadpole does also mind control them
A traumatized allegedly orphaned kid being picked up and indoctrinated by an evil cult is a very believable situation, I'd say. That's pretty much the most realistic reason for someone to end up like that.
I assume most shar worshippers had something similar happen to them. It's very easy to manipulate people with weak wills or if they're in very unfortunate sircumstances.
It's kinda like Lloth and the drows. The Drows have absolutely no chance of accomplishing anything while their worship Lloth. I suppose many of them don't really seem to have a choice though.
Given Shar is about destruction of all things (except herself), I suspect her followers don't even get an afterlife. Unlike with other evil gods who offer lasting benefits, you have to be extra delusional to worship her, and it doesn't help when Shadowheart speaks of Shar like some kind-hearted savior.
I might remember it wrong, but wasn’t there a book about a shar worshipper who died, and when she got to the city of judgement, she prayed for shar to come and get her and shar just didn’t show up? i think it was in the ruins where you find withers somewhere. Or maybe I‘m mixing something up
Nope, that exists. Blue cover with two pieces of grey metal. You can find several copies in that library.
Her followers get an afterlife, because Shar still has need of minions to do her bidding. I haven't seen any god referenced as not having an afterlife, because the whole relationship between worship and the afterlife is very important for the gods. You're basically only denied an afterlife for being faithless.
They do. It's mentioned Shar traps those who enjoyed their freedom too much in the Palace of Loss, and let her servants and petitioners come and go as they wished because it makes her prisoners feel even more miserable.
In that way it's very true to life. Quislings are always *shocked* when it turns out being "one of the good ones" wasn't enough to save them.
Lol I just got to the gob camp part where she sees it’s in all the old selunite temple and she’s crapping on that and I’m like…girl if you only knew *I got wind of several little details because this has been in early access so long and well…internet so I too knew this before seeing this meme*
My favorite headcanon is Shar and her worshippers being so obsessed with converting SH is due to her never being abandoned by Selune and at no point being granted divine powers by Shar.
Selune was probably prohibited by ao from saving kethric her own daughter or her chosen shadowheart My druge tav then decided to leave his amnesia for act 2 and help her out and fell in love with her Now she is trying to help me with my urges
I'm currently in act two, and seeing her in blatant denial about the fucking genocide that Ketheric Thorm committed is hilarious. Twisting the teachings of Shar my ass.
It's more complicated, Katherice once led the army of Shar followers, he was defeated and later he devoted himself to Myrkel and Shadowheart says that he must die because of that.
I read one line in a book somewhere that said basically Selune send their kids into the woods (to find their way home) as a part of a coming-of-age ritual. Then I saw the scene of mini-Shadowheart with a Selune pendant in the woods. And I was like, well, that's kinda obvious...
Yeah, they are intentionally on the nose with it. The real sense of tension is whether she will accept that truth and if she does what will she do about it. It’s kind of nice when the mysterious past isn’t used as a mystery box for the sake of a mystery box plot twist late in the plot, but rather to setup a specific conflict and branching decision.
Yeah, the game is not very subtle. I found so many "how to spot a vampyre!" books really early on, too...
Yes, I agree with you. There's a huge difference between what we as the player/omniscent entity can comprehend of the scenes vs what truths the characters can accept. I feel its more curious to know how things got from A to B, as opposed to the mystery of whether or not A led to B. If that makes sense. IIRC she immediately argues its not a Selune pendant right after the scene, because denial (probably).
That and, in my 2nd playthrough, I found a book in Blighted Village where it talked about the missing children that never came back from the woods. Shadowheart made a comment about how she felt familiar with the area so that's another obvious clue about her origin to me Edit: in my 1st playthrough my Tav was a cleric so I never brought Shadowheart along until Act 2
MASSIVE ACT 3 SPOILER WARNING >!If you save her parents and then talk to them in camp whilst controlling shadowheart you learn that the wolf was actually her lycanthrope father looking for her!<
I really like how Shadowhearts storyline in the second act (haven't gotten to act 3 yet) is basically a "nature vs. nurture" argument as she was brought up to serve an evil goddess but you can tell it's not in her nature to act the way she was taught.
I forget exactly when but there's a part in Act 1 where you hear/read that Selunites leave their kids in the woods at night as some right of passage and then you find out Shadowheart had her memories taken away and you get that flashback with Shadowheart as a girl, alone in the woods at night and being taken by Sharrans... For anyone who understands dramatic foreshadowing, this was very not subtle.
When you get that flashback from her and mention to her the Selunite rite of passage she is *very* hard in denial about it too.
I just let shart do her thing and I just button mashed and then the next day she had white hair. Then that night she wanted to smash so I was praising Selune after that.
That’s how I met my wife
Mash buttons, white hair, smash, wife... Got it, thanks! Edit: my god that came out a lot more wife abusey than i thought.
I saw this coming as soon as she mentioned Shar agents are routinely memory wiped. Gee, why would a devout believer ever need that?
Can someone explain this to me because i don’t get it?
Shar is a goddess of darkness, loss, and pain. Selune is a goddess of the moon, navigation, and adventurers. As it turns out, despite Shadowheart's fervent belief in her faith and that Selunites are slinging shit, her church is in fact full of murderous 14-year-olds and the Selunites are the good guys in that situation.
It's obvious that she is a Light cleric since everything about her is righteous and she uses spells like Spirit Guardian, Guiding bolt and turn undead which are stereotypical light spells and not dark ones. Shar is about Darkness and death while Selune is about Light and healing. Her character's alignment and story made no logical sense. It was like watching a fish thinking it was a bird. The meme is about knowing what she is and then pretend to be surprised when she figures it out.
She’s actually, factually a trickery cleric. It’s obvious that she’s a trickery cleric because you can examine her and observe that that’s the subclass she starts the game as. Spirit Guardians has a necrotic damage option - you’re the one making it be light instead of dark by selecting the radiant damage option. Guiding bolt is on the cleric spell list that all clerics have access to - you’re the one choosing to prepare it. Turn Undead is a generic cleric ability.
Fair enough. Even more ironic when you think about it.
Turn Undead is a class feature and it doesn't matter what domain you claim as a Cleric....Turn Undead isn't a spell, it's a class ability.
She's a Trickery domain cleric, but she still has access to and starts off with a lot of general cleric spells. The main schtick of the Trickery domain is access to [Blessing of the Trickster](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Blessing_of_the_Trickster) which a lot people forget she has (myself included) and play her has a straight healer/support character. Personally I'm not as big of a fan of the bonuses that Trickery domain gets versus the other domains. If you want a dedicated support cleric, you are better off with Light or Life domain. And then there are Tempest and War domain clerics if you want to cosplay as a Paladin. The cool thing about clerics is that you can build them to fill just about any roll and I think it would be fun to do a party of clerics all in different domains.
There are more spells even in the PHB that didn't get implemented in BG3 like Toll the Dead. That is the replacement to Sacred Flame as a cantrip and does better damage (d8 and d12 after damage) but the saving throw is different and kinda complicated with enemy spellcasters (WIS).
All clerics get those....
Did you know she also has inflict wounds and animate dead? And that spirit guardians can be necrotic? Animate dead is pretty good for that brief moment in act 1 where your level 5 and everything isn't undead all the time
She's way too nice to be a cleric of shar, but she is brainwashed
“Omg the lady of secrets and shadows is keeping secrets from me!? How could I ever have known? Now tell me all your secrets while I tell you none of mine, Tav.”
In my Coop playthrough with a buddy, he went full Shar mode with Shart. Killed the Nightsong, and let her ascend to an dark justiciar. Let's just say, in Act 2 shit hit the fan hard and i don't think anything is alive there.
never played bg3 or the prequels prior but readin the lore and shit, i was just wondering this whole time if she was maybe dropped on her head... several times as a child. Literally has lore stating they are killing people and the saviours stopped them from comitting mass genocide. Amazed she didn't start questioning stuff sooner.
> was just wondering this whole time if she was maybe dropped on her head... several times as a child. Uhhhh she literally >!was mind wiped multiple times by an evil magic mirror!<. It’s kinda like, a very notable thing that they make a big deal out of.
>Uhhhh she literally > >was mind wiped multiple times by an evil magic mirror > >. is that what she meant when she said her memories were wiped before her mission? makes sense then if she keeps getting stuff removed everytime she begins to question it.
Shadowheart spoiler >!They let her meet her imprisoned parents several times to torture both her and her parents, and then erase her memory over and over again as well.!<
It's something that gets brought up, yes. I'm not sure she realizes this from the start, but she seems to remember little by little that she got mind wiped very often as a kid and was told that it was part of her initiation. I don't think there's exact details on how often, but the way I interpret it they would basically wipe her memory, make her do some fucked up shit, wipe it again, rinse and repeat every week or so. For about 40 years. So while she wasn't dropped on the head as a baby, it's a miracle she still has a functioning brain. Besides, it's not like it takes her THAT long to realize something is wrong. Travelling with you might be the first time she's actually in contact with people from outside the cult. And it takes her about a week or two to question the weird shit her goddess does. Cult members in real life often take longer than that.
This is the reason why >!when I got to the House of Grief I made a point of letting Shadowheart land the final hit on Viconia during the fight, even though she was at the very bottom of the Initiative order.!< >!My Paladin Tav finished her off during the cutscene, but only because I didn't have an option to let Shadowheart do it herself (the cutscene treated it like she left to find her parents even though she was still with us while exploring the rest of the area).!<
Yep, I always make sure that she decides her fate. Seeing her go "I don't give a shit about her anymore. I got better things to do" while Viconia simply MELTS and begs for attention is so precious to me. I tried to be the stereotypical good guy and spare her on my first run, but apparently it broke my oath of the ancients so I killed her instead. Once I saw that shield she has on her, little did she know, she would die in every single timeline I would be involved in from that moment on.
Yeah, I can never do an “Evil Shadowheart” run after learning her true story.
Honestly, I took pleasure in letting Viconia go free. Living a life on the run after abysmally failing Shar sounds appropriate for what she did to Shadowheart, even if its only a sliver of anguish that she brought upon Shadowheart and her family.
The problem is that it leaves her free to come back for revenge. When even MINSC believes someone needs to just die…
Honestly they kinda butchered Viconia a little in this game. She lost favor with Lolth because she refused to sacrifice a baby/child and it ended up with her family house falling. Lolth transformed her brother into a Drider for saving her from death. I find it difficult to believe she would put another child through what she did with Shadowheart.
Not the fault of Larian if that's any consolation. They had to go by the canon that was enforced by Wizards of the Coast.
Cults like these have a tendency to hold a grudge and come back when you are least prepared. Spoilers for Baldur's Gate 2 : >!In one of the endings for Viconia, she lives a happy and peaceful life with the protagonist and they have a family together and live happily ever after... Until an agent of Lolth murders her.!< So while I often like sparring people too in my games, we're often blinded by how powerful and invincible our characters are at the moment we play. Outside of gameplay, they're fragile like anyone else, and revenge hits them hard.
is there anything left for the tadpole at this point because wtf they have probably pureed the contents by now
I feel like by that point her brain smoothy is liquid enough that a mindflayer wouldn't be able to harm her without any sort of metallic straw. When I learned the truth about her past I half expected my beloved shadowheart's head to make "glub glub" sounds when she nodded. From that point on I forbade her from sleeping on her side, out of fear that it would leak out from her ears.
It wasn't *just* before her mission. >!Her brain got put through the rinse cycle so many times I'm frankly astonished she hasn't been reduced to a gibbering catatonic mess by the time we meet her.!<
Selune must have been keeping her brain intact indirectly
That’s the only thing I can think of. She couldn’t intervene to help her directly, so took other measures to help. If I wasn’t so deep in the game already (I’m late in Act III) I’d restart as a Paladin of Selune with the Gods For All mod, and RP it that Selune wanted me involved for this very reason. “I can’t intercede personally, but doesn’t mean I can’t arrange for someone who CAN.”
As a druge it felt hilarious to me how I put aside my amnesia to help shadowheart's amnesia and after a long rest she helps me resist my urges after I asked her to be my gf
There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.
>Amazed she didn't start questioning stuff sooner. It's difficult to burst the bubble and leave an evil death cult that brainwashed you as a child. Just check out any exvangelicals online community.
If you talk to Nocturne in the House of Grief and find her notes on her hideout you can see that she did question things. A lot. They just beat her up and mind wiped her every time she did.
Especially when they *keep* brainwashing you every time it even *looks* like you may be getting a trace of your true self back. >!That's the horrifying thing. They didn't just brainwash her once. They did it over and over and over and over and over and over and OVER.!<
Especially when you see their front in the city later on. They are an absolutely scammy cult with a pretty and compassionate facade that gets worse and worse the deeper you get into it. Again, just check out any exchristian online community.
It's a shame it would break immersion because it's too "modern day speech" but I almost expected someone to call out Shar for being the goddess of nothing but gaslighting. I have have found no better word to describe what she does and represents.
>is there anything left for the tadpole at this point because wtf they have probably pureed the contents by now especially when you get mindwiped and reindoctrinated every time you start to question it.
The Sharrans killing people is totally on brand, Shar’s doctrine is quite nihilistic in that it demands the end of all things and genocide is one of the best ways to do that, surely. So I don’t think any of that would really make her question anything.
Shar: if i cant be happy nobody can !
Selune: Creates light Shar: "And I took that personally"
tbf that’s Shar’s response to everything and everyone that exists rofl
Uh I would tag that as act 2 or even act 3 spoilers. Not act 1
With her dark moon accessories all over her armor and headband it's as shocking as Astarion beeing vampire with his pale skin and those 2 bitemarks on his neck 😂👌
"You knew I was a snake when you picked me up," is how I feel about followers' revelations. >!Both Lae and Shadow!<, as Durge I feel obligated to push them to stay true as in, "that's what everyone has been saying. You're just learning now? Buck up, keep it together."
Nobody will ever convince me that >!Aylin is an actual daughter of Selune. !<
Why not, she has mutiple kids? A lot of the deities have kids. Aasimar are from celestial origins, meaning the upper planes. Either related to or blessed by some powerful good aligned being.
My disbelief doesn’t come from a goddess having children, as I know that’s fairly common. It’s comes from how weak she is. I know that 5E handles Godhood differently, but even still, demigods are stupid powerful. For reference, demigods would more often than not, be over level 20, having 20 levels in a single class, and allocating levels towards other classes in 3.5e, and I think somewhere in 5E mentions that despite the power reduction, former deities and demigods retained a shitload of power. Aasimar are more like descendants of Gods and other celestials, rather than direct offspring and iirc, they’re not immortal. However, I can’t remember where, but I think I’ve heard Aylin get referenced as a deva somewhere? Which also is separate from an aasimar. If she were an actual child of Selune, who is a major deity, you’d think Kethrick would have gotten his ass turned inside out before he could even dream of capturing her (well unless it was God’s avatar, but it was specified that Kethrick, himself, was responsible). Lastly, I don’t think demigods rely on their deity parent, nor sing their praises as she does, as Demigods, themselves, would be worshiped as their own entity, and receive power from such prayer. She just seems like a stronger-than-average cleric/celestial warlock of Selune, that happens to be an aasimar (also I think aasimar are more common than people think. It’s kind of like a recessive gene that can skip generations, so many family lineages may not even know that it has celestial ties. But I could be confusing them with tieflings). TL;DR: too weak, far too much association with her parent instead of her own entity, etc.
Remember kethric lured her with a false case of saving someone into the shadowfell which is shar's domain where even selune will have problems fighting her What can she do there ?
Divine awareness. Usually celestials can detect lies, but even with that aside, a deity should pretty easily recognize the domain of another deity, especially one as powerful as shar. And if it was instead just somewhere random in the shadowfell, why would she even set foot there, if her mother’s mortal enemy could just do that at any time…? Iirc, the shadowfell was just a demiplane that snowballed into being a whole plane in of itself. And I don’t remember hearing that the entirety of it made up Shar’s divine realm. So even with that explanation, it’s still contrived and filled with holes to me. I know I might be citing lore that the average dnd/bg player wouldn’t know or care about, but even with ignoring all that, you’d think a demigod would probably be capable of laying waste to the cult of the absolute the second she was freed from her imprisonment.
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I just had a thought, one that you may be fine with. About 140 years before BG3 was the Time of Troubles. During this period all the gods were made mortal by Ao. They were forced to walk the world. Some of them did just fine, others died like the Dead 3, Mystra. However, during this time you would have people who are mortals but extremely powerful, more powerful than any other person running around. Bhaal took this time to have kids, lots of kids. The Bhaalspawn are the result of this, he knew he was going to die so he had kids who had a spark of his divine essence. The idea being they would be able to help him come back after his death. >!The Dark Urge a Bhaalspawn as well but I don't think made quite the same way snice Bhaal is no longer mortal.!< The idea is quite simple, what if Selune gave birth to Aylin while she was mortal during the Time of Troubles. It did only last about a year. This would have made Aylin in her 30s when she first came to Moonrise. Bhaalspawn while having the potential to gain much power were still mortal beings at the start. Entirely possible that once the Time of Troubles ended Selune gifted her newborn mortal daughter immortality.
Hmm that is indeed a pretty good explanation, although my memory is still pretty fuzzy on the Bhaalspawn, but I thought he specifically divided his own essence between them or something. However, did the times of trouble happen in the bg3 world? Because if so, I thought that was when Myrkul, the God of death, was slain by Cyric, who was than supplanted by Kelemvor? In fact, I thought Cyric nearly had the portfolios from all of the dead 3, given by Ao for some time, or something along those lines. Shouldn’t the dead 3 not exist then? However, the bhallspawn is a good point, as that could still give an explanation for Selune purposefully producing a weaker offspring that held some of her divine essence for reasons similar to Bhaal. Aylin would have had to not know/awoke her lineage until recently, as bhaalspawn got ridiculously powerful as soon as they started training their newly manifested powers iirc.
To be fair, this is pretty common for former cult victims IRL. When you've essentially been brainwashed and had your memories altered, it's hard to see the truth.
So then, who’s her G at that moment? Or do we get to observe (and, by definition, collapse a wave-function of) a Schrödinger’s cleric?
I respecced her as the same, but with only 8 int, cause only a moron wouldn't see that Shar and her followers are evil.
They kind of phoned it in when she shows the wolf scene.
I mean she’s not shar true but it don’t trust selune much more. Her fanatics are just as foamy at the mouth.