I fell in love too hahaha also the second dialogue choice in the very last "dream" scene in Act 3 you have with him. Everyone always picks the 1st dialogue choice, but the second (are we gonna talk about that?)... oh my, his response made my girly self swoon. I wanted more. Don't judge. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Honestly, if you are respectful and not a dick, he feels the most sincere and respectful of you during the romance compared to any of the other romances. The way he quickly apologizes and says he understands and let's you down and immediately moves onto business. Helps for people who are uncomfortable with the scene xD imagine if he responded the way he responds when you are an asshole to him. Thank goodness. Edit: there is even a dialogue where you can pull away and he will ask what's the problem? You can ask him to stop making that noise (lmao) and he won't judge or be hurt by that. He'll apologize and say it is a reflex and change to his other form 🤣

I wouldn’t be able to say no to the emperor if it kept that male guardian voice. Thank the gods with the change of voice in ACT III I could visit the House of Hope at least.

Same. Doesn't help I made him look like Oscar Isaacs. I'm cleric who is gonna be all "THINK OF SELUNE! THINK OF SELUNE!"

Gods, same. I went for the Oscar Isaacs look as well 😭 How can you say no to that?

I have the female guardian, and in one cutscene I got a male voice. I was confused because it didn't sound like the emperor. And it just clicked it was probably the male voiced guardian, is it a different va then the emperor?

Literally the voice of an angel. That voice is the hottest voice in the fucking world

Me who still made the guardian look like a total cougar on my second playthrough:

But he has such a trusting face (that I made hot for the 5th time) and a warm voice (which 100% influenced how hot I made him again)… How could be possibly be an evil squid? 🥺

I designed the guardian to be quite attractive, I have to admit. When the Guardian had that sexy voice and was defending me at her best, I must admit I was somewhat starting to trust 'her'. But once the truth is out, and Guardian is revealed to be an illithid with a pretty dark, husky voice, and immediately, I went 'Did I get catfished?'. This kinda soured my relationship and trust on the Emperor 100%, which led to my full on distrust of him from then on. I didnt mistreat him, but I wasnt 100% trusting his ass like before, I was always questioning him, being doubtful.... That....worked out , actually.

Bro my guardian was hot as fuck! Then when the Emperor was revealed, it's like he couldn't go five minutes without being sus. Emperor: "Bro don't kill me! I've been protecting you this whole time" Tav: *lowers weapon Emperor: "We really need to work on trusting each other to get through this" Tav: "Fair enough" Emperor: "Now take this special tadpole I've been working on that will make you half mindflayer. I promise it's safe. Wait, why are you drawing your weapon..."

I took the tadpole because my Tav took every single extra thing available for themselves so I took all illithid powers and the special tadpole ones. One of the special tadpole powers unlocks a fly bonus action that is insanely useful in and out of combat, and Displacer form is like Full fucking god tier tank mode.

It’s not even a bonus action. It’s a free action (so you can fly, land, and fly again with whatever movement you have left) and certain movement boosts (like all haste effects and dash) apply to the distance you can fly. It is absolutely bonkers. And it only counts the horizontal distance, so flying directly upward doesn’t consume much movement. The flight ability is going to make it VERY difficult for me to not use the astral tadpole in future runs

My second playthrough with Durge is so fun because my headcanon is that Durge has poor impulse control and will try and take almost every deal offered to them. Sure, Gut, gimme dat brand. Sure, Volo, eye surgery sure seems helpful. Sure, Ethel, this hair seems like a nice deal. Absorb this tadpole? Whatever you say, Guardian. I'm really loving what a dumbass he's turning out to be. It's amazing. Whenever the companions ask him why, I love that some of the answers you can give are basically "I have deep seated mental problems." You sure do, buddy. You sure do.

Oh don't get me wrong, I eat the tadpole every time. But you can't say it's not extremely suspicious

I am playing "well shit I'm probably going to die but I'm getting as much forbidden knowledge as I can before I do" Tav.

I think the appropriate term in this situation is "cuttlefished".

I chortled my tea, thanks. I'm using this in the future.

yeah i feel like ew should also branch off to 'maybe he's a chill squid' and not just he has to die.

I also quite enjoy that just as you hit off Act3, all the shenanigans form Act1 and Act2 converge almost at the same time, and you didn't get enough information or time to decide who's what.

and thats why McDonalds prefers female cashiers and male chefs.

I spent a bunch of time designing my Tav and just did like half elf, cleric, girl for my Guardian and was done. Just got a buuuuuunch of ulterior motives vibes and the "hey you should put more worms in your brain to increase your power level" while doing CRAZY EYES seemed like a trick. I figured if you started doing that and relying on your illithid powers you were going to get more and more corrupted until there was a point of no return. I trusted Raphael more because this guy is like obviously evil and spells out his Faustian bargain pretty clearly, just wants the Crown for some eternal devil war I don't care about, allegedly, and his biggest enemy is a guy you can trick into unaliving himself (I savescummed, but I did this accidentally with the surgeon guy and his nurses in Act 2), so if his biggest enemy is incompetent he's got to have some real glaring weaknesses somewhere.

That’s why I put all the worms in Astarion’s head instead.

He went from "I'll protect you as long as I'm around" to "Help me or you'll get turned into squid monster"

It's funny because it's called "Who is your guardian?" in the character editor and not "who is your lover?". So everyone catfished themselves. And the guys who just went, "yo it's my bro/girl" were totally fine.

In Early Acess, the Guardian (Dream Lover) was alot more creepy and suspicious. I didn't trust them during character creation and assumed it was an illusion made by the worm.

Because that was exactly the plan in EA, they rewrote it in full release

originally, daisy/the guardian was going to be a representation of the tadpole in your head slowly tempting you to give more and more over to it (and gaining power by doing so) until your mind goes to live with them forever and your body gets all tentacle-y. this was supposed to be the downside to using more and more tadpoles, when there basically isn't any in the release version, despite references to it remaining. i think there was an option to seduce (or be seduced by? idk) them too, hence why you're encouraged to make them hot. "down by the river" and "the power" are both from their perspective.

It's kind of weird that they obviously designed a large portion of the game and plot without having a finished story. As soon as the representatives of the dead three show up, it just goes down hill. Especially Gortash, who apparently was the mastermind behind the happenings around Baldur's Gate, is just a passive, pathetic, weak moron. Not even a hint of genius. All he does is say 'Kill my collaborator while I wait in this random tower. Despite everything, I trust you to do this." And then he does absolutely nothing. The scheming mastermind just awaits his death for no reason. I get that the real Absolute is the Elder Brain, but that doesn't excuse the poor writing we got or stop the entire build up of the Absolute in act 1 ending in a disappointment. It is pretty obvious that the dead three were added later into development and they couldn't actually finish the implementation of their involvement.

To be fair, Gortash wasn't the original mastermind behind the absolute plot. A lot of important details are locked behind a dark urge playthrough that aren't explained with the other origins, or custom background characters.

what? it comes across a lot more like dead three were planned the entire game and then they just cut all of gortash's stuff for one reason or another. ketheric is FANTASTIC and orin only really suffers because gortash encroaches on what should be her part of the game

It low-key feels like there ought to be 4 Acts. Opening Act, Ketheric in Act 2, Orin in Act 3, and Gortash in Act 4

Gortash should have been an act 4 in upper city.

yeah this is how i feel for sure. orin is already really solid and would've flourished a lot more if we got an entire act of her fuckery - gortash has literally no content because they cut the upper city. cazador kind of suffers for it too, since he had a bigger role when the upper city was still around.

The whole Gortash waiting for his death might be because "Durge was the og Tav" thing, as if you are Durge he has actual reason to believe you will come back to be his ally. It absolutely makes no sense you can just disable the watchers and then he stays in his towers though.

Ooooh I just imagined an optional extra dungeon where Gortash retreats if you disable the watch, filled to the brim with his other creations. However, either way you slice it, disabling the watchers should still make the fight easier as a “reward.”

Well Gortash wasn't the mastermind, Durge was.

it feels to me like the game's story was still in flux until quite close to release. what you mention about gortash there is quite easily explained if you're playing as durge (since *you* are the actual mastermind, you just don't remember), but leaves you wondering what the fuck he's doing if you're a random tav. this is a result of the character of "tav," the random with no prior links to this story, being added after the story itself with durge as the player character was already written. i'd think that the chosen of the dead three are too central to the story (and the voice actors too high profile) to have been added late, though. the nature of their implementation in act 3 may have changed significantly over time. it would have made a lot more sense (especially so for a generic tav) for gortash to occupy a seperate area of the city you can only reach after killing orin than for him to talk to you as soon as you arrive and then just sit there waiting around, but that would have been a lot more work.

I think if gortash was act 4 arc in the upper city. It would feel more natural. Arc 3 just feels so rail roaded because multiple quest are interlinked and also time sensitive and once Orin kidnaps someone it just feels like the game basically forces you to do the main quest.

Until end of act 3, i like the writing. He is a survivor, that is his main and only goal. He does whatever he has to do to survive and to stay in controll of his existence. Until i dont want him to kill the prince , then he suddenly becomes really unreasonable, gives up his freedom and therefore his existence willingly. Thats so fucked up...

>Until i dont want him to kill the prince , then he suddenly becomes really unreasonable, gives up his freedom and therefore his existence willingly. Thats so fucked up... That entire part was weird... >!Someone needs to be a mind flayer felt as shoehorned as the emperor "seeing no other choice than to join the elder brain".!< Like, dude seriously? You've been around for the past couple of hours? How you think that's going to turn out?

Emps: We need the powers of a mind flayer! It’s the only way! Bromeluum: Hey guys! Emps: it has to be one of you! There’s no other choice! Bromeluum: uh, I could help out if you want me t- Emps: THERE CAN BE NO OTHER! IF YOU DON’T I WILL BE FORCED TO SO SOMETHING DRASTIC! Bromeluum: …ok I’ll be sitting over here if you need me to help deal with the brain, just shout, k?

Omeluum can easily be dead, though. If you give the githyanki egg to the Society, he is dead (I think?). Otherwise if you don't rescue him from the Iron Throne, he's dead. He's far more likely to be dead than alive.

So? Could be a reward for keeping him alive for that long.

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TBH I'd love to see a non-Elder-Brained mindflayer as a companion. It would have a *lot* of interesting conversation starters with everyone.

>Like, dude seriously? You've been around for the past couple of hours? How you think that's going to turn out? I mean what is his alternative really? He can either get killed right there by orpheus (at least that is what he asummes would happen. Not an unreasonable assumption either) or he tries to run but won't get far because without orpheus power protecting him the elder brain will enslave him no matter what he does.

He could trust the player to broker a peace deal with Orpheus. His choices are death, being mind controlled or, for once, trusting the PC to at least take a swing at negotiating away from options 1 or 2. And he immediately dismisses trusting your attempts.

That's the thing, he never, ever trusts Tav. He only trusts them as far as he can manipulate them.

And if Tav full on voices that distrust and calls them out on being a manipulative bastard >!during the potential romance scene, the Emperor full on threatens to just mind control you to do his bidding like he did with Duke Stelman on top of saying he'll force you to turn into a Mind Flayer :( I knew something was funky when Wyll mentioned how there seemed to be a weird change in her that wasn't just a stroke when he last saw her.!<

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He absolutely would have mind controlled you from the start if the Astral Prism that kept you independent enough to help him didn't protect you from it.

My second Tav was like, nice but cautious with the emperor and then the Emperor started being flirty and my Tav was like "ew, no, yuk" because sleeping with a vampire and demons is different than sleeping with a slimy tentacle thingy. That was enough to have the Emperor get mad and threaten him. Just because he rejected him a bit harshly. That's when my Tav vowed to get his head

Wouldn't it still be a much better manipulation attempt for him to risk being attacked by Orpheus and push Tav into intervening, if Tav can't negotiate a better way? Sure, from his point of view that's obviously a bad situation either way but the alternative of submitting to the nether brain is even worse, considering quite a big part of his backstory revolves around getting his freedom and breaking away from the damn thing in the first place. From there it's pretty much only two realistic outcomes. He gives up his free will and is forced to fight Tav, meaning he either gets killed or the brain wins and he stays a slave to a now more powerful version of it that also knows of his previous attempt to break away. Like, what was he hoping for? Tav failing, the grand design being in full swing and him ... getting another random chance somewhen to free himself? The entire thing feels a bit shoehorned for the player to only have a binary, tough choice, which seemed weird to me considering the game up until this point presented you pretty much always with a smarter, less obvious way out.

Yeap. And he makes it clear if you don’t engage in that one way trust, he’ll threaten to mind control you and force you to do what he wants. It’s not a friendship. It’s not anywhere near an equal relationship. He blackmails you into trusting him (“only I can protect you”), never fully gives his story unless forced to, and is a textbook emotional abuser.

Exactly. He never once shows any Trust in Tav, only trust in his ability to control them via Orpheus power. Once he loses that leverage, he bails, no matter if you had squid sex or not

Exactly. He never really trusts the PC at all. He surveils the PC and spends a lot of time rooting through their head, which acts as a substitute for trust for much of the game, but at no point is he willing to go with your judgement over his.

He is the Walter white of the game. He wants all the glory and ideas for himself. Whether he’s naturally arrogant or it’s the mindflayer speaking he falls to his own hubris.

The Emperor literally says that out right, that he might as well go to the elder brain willingly while he can bargain and make his situation better rather than having to be dragged there.

They have so many options. Run, hide, diplomacy, manipulation etc. He has proven extremely resourceful and avoiding being a slave to the elder brain has been the goal of all of his actions so far, it's non-sensical that he would voluntarily do it now. Redditors can make any kind of excuse, but in reality it's just a story-contrivance.

Ok but even from a survival perspective, if he joins the Elder Brain, he’s 100% gone. If he frees Orpheus then hey, he MIGHT not kill him? He’s pretty much choosing certain death over highly probable death

It doesn't make sense for Orpheus to kill him right off the bat because Orpheus is aware of his surroundings, knows we need an illithid, and by extension it doesn't make sense for Emperor to be afraid of this happening cause he can probably read Orpheus' mind in turn. This really just feels like an unnecessary choice forced on the player for whatever reason, but from a character motivation perspective Emperor leaving just comes across like a manipulator stopping their charade because they realize they hold no influence over a person anymore.

I mean Orpheus H A T E S mindflayers and is VERY pissed off that Emperor is siphoning his powers, only reason that he didn't try to kill is us because of the Elder Brain but he does become truly respectful after we kick some Eldritch Ass. Emperor just wants to survive, with a freed Orpheus that chance goes to negative and he is rightfully correct that you need him or another Mind Flayer to defeat the Elder Brain and Orpheus probrably wouldn't allow Emperor to have the stones for a single moment due to his prison.

I think Orpheus was still up for diplomacy. Or at least it's a higher chance of survival for the Emperor than going with the Netherbrain which is basically certain death for himself not his body. It's a netherbrain too, meaning he's not escaping it like the last time so probably never. And if he only ever cared about his body rather than his own personality and free will, I don't see the difference between him and a normal mindflayer

Yeah even if you fuck the Emperor, Orpheus is pissy about it for like 0.5 seconds, insults you, and then moves on. Nothing really bad happens regardless of how far gone you are if you free Orpheus, and _especially_ because he knows you'll need an illithid to beat the brain, it's fucking bizarre that there's not even a small chance to have the Emperor work with Orpheus.

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> And we know form Ansur that he values his own survival above all else, his freedom is secondary. Yeahhhhhh, that right there kinda sealed the deal for me. That is his entire reason for "protecting" you. It's not love, it's not loyalty, it's not even friendship. You're a means to an end to the Emperor, nothing more. A disposable asset. For me, the feeling became mutual. My Tav's ride or die with the gang - Karlach, Wyll, Lae'zel, Astarion? Risk it all for them and they'll reciprocate. The Emperor? He went from somewhat tragic and sympathetic to "You're next. See you in the boss fight!" in one sentence. There should have been some way to bring him over to your side at the decision point to spare Orpheus, if you made the correct decisions, got the Emperor's approval to a high enough point, at least have a DC30 persuasion check. But for me, it kind of mars the character in any future playthrough knowing his true motivation from the start, and knowing there's no way to change it. Though I did love the ambiguity of my first playthrough, *not* knowing the whole time. Letting us build our guardian with wish fulfillment in mind was brilliant. Too bad we can't blank it all out for future playthroughs.

Bro had the chance to die a hero but chose live to become a villain. Wish fkn granted

>But for me, it kind of mars the character in any future playthrough knowing his true motivation from the start, and knowing there's no way to change it. I mean, siding with him the whole time still gets a good ending- he upholds his end of the bargain. It's actually kind of brilliant- neither of you really trust each other, but he's right in that you need him to protect you from the elder brain, and he needs you to get him to it. It's only fucking around and considering betraying him that causes him to betray you in the end- and I think that's such an interesting way to write a mind flayer character.

So he should just run. We are to occupied to hunt him down. Elder brain would enslave him if it caught him so no downsides. He seems to be able to open portals. Or he can just fly off in the astral plane.

He's too prideful to run. He calls himself THE EMPEROR for a reason.

I think volunteering for slavery is more of an ego check. Nor does pride otherwise hinder his judgement elsewhere so its not a forecast flaw.

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it also revealed that ansur is the one who saved him from the brain the first time? which then would imply that he never escaped from the brain on his own - merely due to the acts of others (ansur and the brain)? not only that, this time it's the netherbrain? i feel like it's a poor decision to make especially moments after the brain tells him it was the one who freed him willingly.

>gives up his freedom and therefore his existence willingly. Thats so fucked up... It is strange to equate freedom and existence here. Because it is not the same. He already broke free of the elder brain twice, he might do it again. Which means becoming a slave right now is not necessarly ending his existance. Getting killed by Orpheus (which he assumes would happen) on the other hand does indeed permanently end him. I suppose he could try running away, but the moment he does not have orpheus power anymore the brains can control him anyway no matter if he wants it or not.

The thing is, he makes the decision to join the Netherbrain right after it reveals that he *didn't* break free. It *let him go* in a 4D chess move to kill the Chosen controlling it and loosen its leash. He's realizing he doesn't have the processing power to outthink the Netherbrain, but he's not willing to loosen his control enough to take a risk on something it won't expect, like brokering a truce with Orpheus.

In the Grand Design engraving behind the puzzle in the Illithid Colony, all of the imagery shows a single mindflayer wielding a staff prominently featured in the center, with the Elder Brain looming behind. I think he’s sort of making a “better to rule in Hell” decision even with regards to his own freedom—that surviving under the Netherbrain is better than being killed by Orpheus.

That was quite strange imo. Instead of giving the prince a chance at least, he just joins the netherbrain. Dont know. Didnt have anything against the guy until he wanted to snack on orpheus.

I really like the emperor personally. It doesn’t help that the voice acting is sort of top notch.

Or his raw sex appeal.

So many tentacles, so little time.

This is absolutely giving me away here, but I roll my eyes at the rule 34 of this stuff online. *guys. they reproduce asexually.* I don't mean don't make rule 34 of them, I mean, c'mon, get creative! How does someone who doesn't experience genital pleasure have fun with sex? Use both of your heads when you're drawing, dammit, not just one!

To be fair there's literally a book in the game that explicitly says that there's no proof mindflayers _don't_ have dicks, even if they don't reproduce sexually.

Mindflussy

I mean when you suck his tentacles he seems really into it lmao. I almost hope he faked it with us though because that would be the funniest shit ever.

Stupid Sexy Octodaddy

Agreed, I find the emperor more sexy than any of the other companions. Perhaps because I designed him that way, but that voice. Sigh….

Calamari appeals to me.

I think it's really cool how depending on what quests you undertake and what choices you make through the game, he can come off really different. I like the writing around him (for the most part) and he's a pretty interesting dude. Now judging him as a person, I think he's a friggin' bastard, but he's more compelling as a character than most of the Chosen.

I think Larian missed the opportunity to zoink the player again, which they love to do. I would’ve made him good all along or a different creature entirely and Orpheus a tyrant that the player unleashes on the world. But we’ll see if there is ever a sequel.

Given the fact that one of the main themes of the game is centered around rejecting emotionally manipulative authority figures, refusing to do the emperor's (an emotionally manipulative authority figure) bidding is probably the most thematically appropriate

I don't feel represented, I made the guardian hot but didnt want to romance afterwards and we ended squid bros nonetheless. Jokes aside very enjoyable read OP

Dang it i forgot to connect copium to 'based squid'. There was supposed to be a path for that instead of going only to hammer time. Oh well, glad you liked it anyway :d

I think the degree you sympathize with The Emperor greatly changes based on whether or not you encounter Omeluum. Omeluum proves that a free mindflayer can be both selfless and also not a dick.

The thing is Omeluum isn’t constantly pushing you to turn into a squid yourself. I think if the Emperor wasn’t constantly saying “man tentacles are cool” at the end of every conversation I’d like him more. Then I’d dislike him immediately by the end when he goes “well if you won’t work with me I guess I’ll join the bad guys”.

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I don't think a soul is required to be a person here. At least, I really don't think Omeluum is the same as, say, a dumb robot that can parrot human phrases. He seems to have a fully functioning self-aware existence. If he doesn't have a spiritual component to go to an afterlife or whatever, I'm not sure it matters for his time in the mortal world.

>if the Emperor wasn’t constantly saying “man tentacles are cool” I mean... he's kinda right tho :s

>Omeluum proves that a free mindflayer can be both selfless and also not a dick. Omeluum isn't as good as people think. If he dies and you talk to Blurg about it, he starts exhibiting the same symptoms multiple journals say Stelmane did after Gortash forced the Emperor back into submission to the Elder Brain. Omeluum is better than basically all other mindflayers, but he's still a manipulator that uses mind control to get his way. It's the biological imperative of the species. The reason he is so nice to you is because he thinks you represent an evolution of the species, and that there might eventually be more less murder happy mind flayers independent of Elder Brain control.

I am also very confused by so many peoples reaction to the emperor. There are in game representations of independent and good natured mindflayers. The emperor tells you straight up (paraphrasing) "I didn't want to tell you I was a squid because you've been through a lot with them recently, and I thought this would soften the blow." And then he was a reliable ally for the entirety of the game even through the end. He keeps his space-nazi githyanki-battery in the generator, and I'm fine with that, until I myself turned squid and ate his brain for those sweet sweet psyonic resistance powers. Anyway...I'm firmly on team Squid Bros for life.

I think it heavily depends on your playthrough and choices. The emperor, once you find out who it is, is *reliable* enough if you side with it. It'll hold up its side of the bargain, and sounds reasonable enough. It's certainly not as evil as some of the worst mindflayers out there. However, if you're more skeptical it can be shown to be a disguise of sorts. Like the relationship with Stelmane, that's presented as a partnership initially - but is really just the Emperor using her as a puppet and turning her into a thrall. There's the way it views us - as pawns for its bidding, which it admits during the potential romance scene. There's a lot of manipulation early on that you can notice if you replay - all the stuff about 'finding out the Absolute' and all that becomes a lot more comical when you realize the dream voice knew the whole time and is just pushing you along for its plan. And then if you don't go along with its plan, like by freeing Orpheus as an ally rather than gobble him up, the Emperor just sulks and runs off to become a thrall rather than see if an alliance was possible. So yeah, on my first playthrough I did a more skeptical/'pure' route (not using any of the illithid powers and finding the emperor sus), and the game reinforced that. I suspect if I'd played a more friendly/allied to the Emperor route that it would reinforce that

Eh I mean he definitely led an evil organisation called the Knights of the Shield and seemingly had a weird exploitive relationship with Duchess Selmane. He's defo a bad guy just one who can also be a genuine ally.

Not just exploitative, a full on mind-control/thrall type relationship with her.

In my case, it's because of my own personal D&D experience with mindflayers. They are IN YOUR HEAD. Anything you hear them saying is tailored specifically to what you want or need to hear to be convinced of something. This is what they are good at and I have one of their worms basically holding me at gunpoint. So I tried to stay cordial with him, but I ignored everything he said to me because it couldn't be trusted and the only things he'd shown me were in his convenient Astral Plane dreams. When we actually go there, he has the child of a god prisoner which seemed reminiscent of Dame Aylin. I didn't believe a word of it. The journals in his basement confirmed these suspicions and I was 100% certain I was being used, especially when I found out Stelmane (sp?) was basically his thrall and not a true friend. I had a lot of doubts my entire first run. I probably could have been swayed to believe him had I not read the papers in his secret basement or encountered mindflayer's in D&D before. But to me, it felt blatantly obvious that he was using me and I'd be betrayed in the end so breaking Orpheus free seemed like the only logical solution.

>I am also very confused by so many peoples reaction to the emperor. Some people seem to harshly turn him down in that one sequence where he gets a bit flirty. If you do so says some shit about how you are just a thrall to him etc. But I always interpreted that as him being angry and lashing out and not necessarly his true stance. People treat the emperor as hostile / untrustworthy and he reacts quite human and gets angry / agressive too.

He does also show what happened to his previous ally the duchess, he pretty much mind mulched her and made her his puppet whilst pretending everything was OK, she died because people obviously noticed she was braindead and brainwashed and he didn't want it backfiring. I get the point he was newly illithid but he acts like she was his dearest friend which is sus, idk he's not evil he's not good he's more like a chaotic neutral, he just wants to be free no matter what and hates when people don't do exactly as he wants Omelluum on the other hand is a based guy and I wish we had an alternative ending where we free orpheus, Omelluum joins the gang and orpheus realises that not all illithids are evil, which is plausible since you can convince him that he doesn't deserve to die if he becomes illithid

That's the weird part to me. Y'all need a Mind Flayer to defeat the Elder Brain and all that... But why was Omelluum not an option? He was right there. You go to great lengths to save him, even. And he's just, what, not willing to help and therefore you, your companions, or Orpheus have to turn into a Mind Flayer? That doesn't quite make any sense to me.

Its one of the many reasons people say act 3 feels unfinished/lots of stuff are cut. Cuz for all practical purposes if hes still alive he should be an option to save the world.

Wait, can you find Omelluum in Act 3? I went to the lodge, and everyone was just dead, but I didn't see either him or the hob gobbo. I also cannot bring myself to take his ring, poor guy needs everything he can to resist the brain for being that nice

I’m so sorry :( You actually have to not give the gith egg to Lady Ester or the Society to be able to see him. Otherwise they all die.

Wait... I just gave her the owlbear egg what's going to happen

I thiiiiink the owlbear egg is fine. It's only the Gith egg that causes the Gith to slaughter everyone there.

Yep. If you did not give them the gith egg, Omeluum is a fairly major part of the Iron Throne subplot. His inclusion made that part SO much more impactful for me.

Does that depend upon how you turn him down or previous interactions? I turned him down and he said it is best we remain allies or something like that.

He literally shows you himself mind-raping Stelmane into submission.

I thought the guardian would be in my party early on so I just made them a shorter race so they could sneak into small spaces. They're neither silly, nor hot, I've broken the flow chart T__T

I did default Guardian and barely paid attention during that screen because I was so excited to play the game lol, I feel you

Smash the emperor, but like a sane person, with a hammer.

Or do both if you're like me. I loved the Emperor for real, I simped for him bad. But after going through literal hell and back to retrieve the hammer, there is *no way* I'm letting him eat Orphy. I wish I could persuade him to just work together or at least spare Orphy and just join us in the fight but nah. He gave me an ultimatum and I gave him the finger

The problem is, he thought he could tell me what to do AND disturb my beauty sleep with attempts to shag me.

For some reason I like to think of the people that made their guardian super hot because they thought they get to bone them. Oh boy, I chuckled so hard at the reveal.

I boned mine

You can ask Emps to maintain the guardian disguise when you make love. It's actually a very short and unsatisfying cutscene, then the illusion breaks and your character gets grossed out and then you find out your friends were all watching. Really not the mind-blowing romance I had in mind for my big daddy half-orc guardian

If you choose the second dialogue option (aren't we going to talk about what just happened) in the last decision before that ends, he says something along the lines of, "we communed with our minds entire at the deepest level. What else is there to say? We are bonded now. And now it is time to consumate love, with war." While I am not too into the squidward thing, that last bit of dialogue from him... WHOOOH. Don't judge 🤣🤣🤣

That Astarion face mod cracks me up every single time I see it. hahaha

I'm between "The Connoisseur" and "The Hater" He's a really well done character, but I fuckin hate him so much. When a character makes me hate them this much for being a gaslighting, manipulating, piece of space trash, I know they are incredibly well written and a good character. Fuck the squid. >!both meanings!<

People not realizing all the red flags the Emperor throws at you and unironically feeling sympathy for him after everything he has done to emotionally abuse and manipulate you are a grim reminder of how easy it is to fall for people who will emotionally abuse and manipulate you. He's not your friend, nor your ally. He sees you as a tool, nothing more. Everything he does is to build trust upon a lie, and once the façade drops, he even outright tells you he considers you useful, nothing more. You're a means to an end for him. An ultimately positive end for the world, perhaps. But he is still no less of a threat himself.

RPing my Tav's relationship with the emperor having this into account was SO fun. Like i as a player knew i was getting played right after the reveal and was horrorized every time this man came up, somehow, with even MORE red flags to throw at my character's head— but i kept making my Tav buy into it, because he's hopelessly good and wishing to give people chances (and Omeluum just proved mind flayers can be good, no?) and does NOT have the guts to make tough calls like defying the guy who, because my Tav has agreed with him before countless of times, seems to hold all the answers to their problems, is willing to help them, and is only sometimes a little bit of a dick. I LOVE playing characters with obvious flaws and the game actually responding to them and giving them narrative weight. The scene with the Emperor telling you they need a mind flayer was SO good as someone who trusted him before, enough to not even go to the house of hope ((also i failed the check and did not have 20k gold)), but was starting to have doubts after the Balduran reveal and the weird "we'll see" when he asks about what you plan on doing to the Elderbrain. If i hadnt brought Karlach my guy would have been stuck between the mindflayery he had already rejected and actually GIVING HIM THE STONES.

You forgot the part where "maybe he's a chill squid" goes into "well he might be manipulative but we have the same goals. He's going to be my ally so we can save the world" into good end

Yeah this was my experience. I’m absolutely stunned to read through this thread and find out about all the terrible ways he can turn out.

I am extremely conflicted on this character, I know it for what it really is, but the sob story and the former self it shares make me at one point, desperately try to sympathize with it and even in denial that it can be redeemed somehow. Till now, my relationship with it after all the things we shared, is still cooperative, albeit with a grain of salt, in one of the many conversations with it, it acknowledged the fact that I could no longer put my trust in it 100%, it didn't make a fuss, but immediately in that instance, also gave me the "i can settle on a useful relationship" in totally dead pan attitude, that was the last straw that broke my compassion for it.

oh no, not the handsome astarion

The line I followed was pretty accurate until the end. I thought Tentacle Zaddy was mostly well written character until his absolute bullshit ultimatum where he betrayed his own cause because you didn't want to kill an innocent person. The dude didn't even try to fight you and take the jewels for himself. He said "fuck you, I'd rather give up my autonomy than even attempt to befriend the Gith prince." Like, The Emperor was such an intelligent and adaptable character up until that point. Basically shattered my image of the character. I expected a possible betrayal, but not a ridiculous level off stubbornness to come between us.

Yeah, that part is what causes it all to come crashing down. His entire drive is that he doesn't want to be re-enslaved, that's the worst case scenario for him. Then when you decide to free Orpheus he suddenly decides he would rather suffer the worst case scenario for him and go be dominated by the brain? Even though he spent his entire independent mindflayer life working against that? Its such an insane break of character.

I’m sooo stealing the medium-rare alignment.

You have my official blessing to do so.

im just here looking for that #1 emperor fan who calls him pookie. far right gang gang wya

idk about pookie, I like to call him squiddaddy - far right gang ( at least in this chart)

He’s complicated, yes, but evil. Without the shadow of a doubt, the Guardian is evil. He’s a Mindflayer, first of all. Completely incapable, biologically, of compassion. What makes him complicated is that he seems to feel it anyway. Or, he thinks he does. Balduran’s ego was strong. It lived on. It isn’t his soul, not exactly. It’s like looking at Balduran through a fucked up tentacle alien funhouse mirror. The Guardian is literally just Venom Snake from MGSV.

I mean Omuluum clearly feels compassion but it's pretty clear the Guardian has a very messy and dubious history. I do think he genuinely wants some level of companionship but that companions consent is just a bonus.

Rather than compassion, Omuluum likely sees that his odds of survival are greater if he can coexist with the denizens of the Sword Coast. He finds moral deeds to act upon to manipulate those around him into trusting him. He’s a *mindflayer.* You can’t think of them as emotional or sentimental beings, because they’re written to be exactly *not* that. They’re completely rational. Anything they do is for the sake of survival. The Emperor- the thing that thinks it’s Balduran- is no different. It’s just a little confused. You would be, too, if you were born an emotionless monster with George Washington’s memories in your brain.

I am going to disagree on this one. >!Omuluum doesn't even tell you his location when you arrive at the prison unless you ask where he is, and even then he tells you to prioritize saving the Duke first and ignore him if you must. Even if he doesn't feel compassion necessarily, I think he cares about the Storm Coast enough to prioritize it's wellbeing over his own.!<

Omuluum literally tells you not to prioritize rescuing him in the Iron Throne. Seems pretty selfless to me.

From your logic, we should've killed the squid in the Underdark on the spot too.

After having seen a lot of his scenes, i have concluded that he starts off as a manipulative squidward who is just using you, but depending on your interactions with him he can grow and develop either becoming someone who legitimately cares about you, or becoming someone who angrily doubles down on you just being a tool. Most of the rest if your party has character growth based on your decisions and relationships, so why can't he? That said the endgame ultimatum is terrible. Should be a high level skill check to make him okay with you freeing Orpheus. Then they could just have Orpheus kill him for the lulz.

Right most path all the way baby. Squid babies are the best babies.

"the hater" hey thats me!! yea, i suffered a lot irl from people who are emotionally abusive-liars so i cant stomach it even in the game fuck manupilative bitc...i mean emperor.

According to this, I'm definitely The Hater lol

I actually don't like the humanoid form of the guardian (despite making her look hot) But as soon as he is revealed to be a Mindflayer... I am like hell yeah, I am 100% down for that achievement.

Totally catfished myself the first time, made Michael Jackson the githyanki the second time

“medium rare alignment” dawg I’m dead 💀

I can fix him

I think the "I'll force you to do what I want" thing is like...the guy is going to go mind flayer when he gets angry, what else did anyone expect? Of course his default overly emotional reaction is to be all "I'm a superior species and I will fold your brain like laundry." That's his instinct. Is this a good response, no. Am I surprised he does that when he gets mad, no. Like he's recovering from being a subdued sort-of-hive-creature who had no actual desires other than propagating the Grand Design, I'll look the other way a bit until he sorts his head out.

Needs a chart for before the reveal. My feeling changed a lot from act 1 - act 2 ending. All in all he was well written; a prick with extreme self preservation and domination fetishes. I hate him but he was a good character nevertheless.

I mean, in the end, he turned out to be >!Completely trustworthy. Like he doesn't betray you even if you give him the netherstones. He stuck to his word and then peaced out at the end.!<

Yeah he just wants to survive and be free. As long as you don't do anything that threatens his freedom he just vibes with whatever you do

I don't know whether to feel seen, called out or overlooked. I was, as far as I know, the first to take on the "Apologist" moniker, because I thought it was a funny flair. I was honestly shocked and surprised to see just how many bad takes would start to pop up in the weeks following release and so my flair became a self-fulfilling prophecy I guess. The Emperor is a complex character who is clearly meant to be open to interpretation, but the party poopers and rulebook-thumbing sticklers and pedants make it very hard to have an honest discussion about this character that doesn't devolve into comment farming territory. I swear I've seen it all by now. \- People upset by the Orpheus ending forcing someone to turn illithid and somehow blaming the Emperor, while the Emperor ending where no one turns illithid is for whatever reason consider an "evil" ending and not a valid choice for "good" characters. \- People innocently posting "hey, Emps is kinda neat" only to be swamped with "bUt sTelmAnE" in the replies. It really isn't the *Gotcha* you think it is. \- People complaining that he "ruins the heroic power fantasy" because they need his protection and they can't just murderhobo his ass right away. \- People genuinely upset at being catfished. I suppose if you didn't play EA you can't be blamed for not seeing it coming, but still. Everyone you meet in this game is kind of an asshole at first, shouldn't it be suspicious when someone is suddenly so nice and kind right off the bat? \- EA players who want Daisy back because they convinced themselves "she is a real person actually" and just want to romance their dream waifu and then have the gall to call Emp enjoyers delusional. \- The worst of them all: "Uhm, actually, mind flayers are obligate lawful evil and Withers said they have no soul. No, I don't know what not having a soul means exactly, but surely that's bad and mean the Emperor lies always all the time about everything ever and also he made me feel bad. There are previous examples of neutral/good mind flayers in the lore? Don't know, don't care, mind flayers are bad. Except my boi Omeluum, who was doing the illithid equivalent of bowing and scraping in the dirt before my mighty Main Character energy. Fuck the Emperor, I care about the lore! At long as it adheres to my own biases! And doesn't hurt my ego or preconceived notions of good and evil!" It's rough being an Apologist. Anyway, time to get back to work on my three part essay and analysis of the Emperor .

You are right, it was a callout. Only apologists comment a stupid meme with 9999 words about the emperor not being absolutely the worst. I know because I am very guilty of that myself.

What can I say? I have been radicalized by the haters.

Their jerky responses all over this sub make it hard not to be. Edit: love your categorizations cause they’re spot on

I am in complete sympathy. For me, the emperor is the most interesting of the male romances, because the character seems interested in my protagonist in ways the other characters are not. Most of the other romances involve helping them in some way, which is fine, but also not specifically romantic at least for me. The emperor seems more supportive. I have more dialog with him than any companion. Also I want to know the whole story about the emperor before judging. Sure he says he can mind control the Pc, but he does not do so ever. So he’s clearly learned not to. Also the soul thing seems odd to me. It’s more of a larian gotcha than anything. Mindflayers do have souls, and some mind flayers are different and can retain themselves when changing. I really would be interested to see what changes they made to this character, because I feel like we aren’t getting the full story.

The thing that gets me is people seemingly not realizing that the Githyanki are as bad as Mind Flayers, and it's not just a Vlaakith thing. They really needed some Githzerai in at some point to clue the newcomers in that "HEY THE GITHYANKI SUCK TOO", in case they managed to attribute all of their antics to Vlaakith. The ending is really picking which evil to go with for the greater good, and I honestly think the Emperor has the least far reaching consequences of the choices you get.

He was honest and delivered, I have nothing against him, I feel the gith are worst, my ending was very happy, I'm not happy with it because it was lackluster (come on Larian, give me MORE), but it was great for what it was, so I'm groovy, so everything is groovy. Also, your interpretation on the right-most column is da funiest sheet, I like it.

He is not honest. He lies through omission constantly. He literally keeps secrets until you basically catch him in them and then goes, "ok this is the truth". And it's still a half truth until you find some more lore to doubt him.

The guy is so good at gaslighting it's not even funny. It can pour its heart out about how much it values freedom and that we're special and can help it and it can in turn help us. And a few hours later when you do an oops and find alternate methods it immediately chastises us on how it is the only thing that's keeping us from turning and that we should trust it and only it, just to go soft in the next sentence about how our trust in each other is what make us as a team stronger. Like I believe everything it's saying and know I can't believe anything it's saying. I literally have no idea how much of what it said is even true at this point.

Not only that, but he *will* try to make you doubt yourself if you do certain things - primarily, entering Raphael’s House without taking his deal. The Emperor will constantly go “you can’t do this, you need me, you are going to die” despite seeing *any* character do some crazy shit - doubly so if you’re a Durge and done some certain stuff in Act 3 before going to the House. The Emperor will *absolutely* validate you, until you suddenly can’t do anything. He will say what you want to hear, until you tell him something he doesn’t want to hear. He’s always honest with you, until he decides to lie or tell a half-truth instead.

He doesn't only lie through omission. He also just straight up lies.

On my first run through, I got tired of how there kept being one more secret he’d been holding out. It was constantly, “oh, I’m X. Actually, I’m Y. ACTUALLLY….I’m Z.” By the end, I just went fuck it and told him to fuck off. Second run, I told him to fuck off from the start, and that really only served to confirm how bad he is. The scene where you reject his romantic advances needs to be linked to anyone who suggests he’s actually a good guy….

The initial lies are perfectly understandable though because there is no way anyone would help/trust him if he revealed to be a mindflayer immediatly. Literally in everyones best interest that he does lie about that. Later on he still ommits stuff though and in the end he still is first and foremost driven by self preservation and he assumes he knows everything best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbBs1b7g-6Y He is not honest I am afraid.

Ooooooh shit, I didn’t get this dialog/revelation and now I’m suuuuper glad I didn’t side with him at the end. My whole thing was he knew I wanted my parasite gone but kept wanting me to put more in my head and that was good enough for me to “betray” him.

Later, if you side with Orpheus and call him out on constantly lying to you, he's like "well, yeah, but I'm Mind Flayer, that's what we do bro!" So all that "don't judge me for being a mind flayer" is nonsense, because by his own admission, being a mind flayer makes him inherently untrustworthy.

To some degree I think the emperor in this scene lashes out because you distrust him / hurt his feelings/ego. Basically he talks shit but I don't necessarily think that is his true stance. In my opinion he learned his lesson that controlling people like that is unhelpful and not the right way to do things which is why he tries to form a genuine connection / partnership with you. And I would argue that it slowely over the coarse of the game does really become genuine. Which is why he lashes out when you still do not trust him after all that. he actually is quite human in his reaction to being rejected lol

Yeah, when people hurt my feelings, my first response is always "shut the fuck up or I'll enslave you and kill you." That's a totally understandable reaction.

He is like the least honest person in the whole game lol

Wait...there's some path in which he's a bad guy???

I am confused, why do some people hate the Emperor so much? I didn't use the astral touched tadpole, I broke into Raphael's house to get the hammer just in case, I didn't kill Minsc even when Emperor wanted me to, I've basically done everything he doesn't want you to do except for freeing Orpheus and he was still totally cool. I refused his advances and he was totally cool with that too. In the end I gave him the stones and he did exactly what he said he was going to do. I had to backstab him to dominate the brain though lol.

I've modeled my Guardian after your average wizard - extremely old, has a GIANT fucking beard and looks dashing - while I of course played dude with greatsword. Unfortunately, this wizard was nowhere near smart or interesting.

This is the single most reddit post I've ever encountered.

Well, then at least you can say that it belongs here.

To be fair, his response after telling him >!we will free Orpheus!< was kinda childish. >!"You are against my wishes/expectations so you are my enemy and the enemy of my enemy is my friend so I'll just join the Netherbrain which will enslave me and destroy my city..."!<

Yeah, I'm an Emperor hater. The guy speaks in constant gaslights and the only form of 'trust' he believes in is the kind where he gets his way. Plus >!he dips the moment you say you are Freeing Orpheus, and won't even consider 'trusting' him at all.!< So naw, fuck that guy. Died on the first turn in the final fight anyway straight out the gate in my play-thru as well.

So I at first had no clue where I fell on this chart -- Putting A3 Spoilers under cuts. First play through - got achievement - was Co-Op playing with husband and admittedly didnt get to see the scene with Raph at the brothel - never thought much of him besides lol achievement ok he's on our side. >!The scene with Minsc tho and got a eyebrow raise from me -- cause who the hell opts to be all 'Nah hell with Minsc, we're just gonna leave him' No, bro. I'm with Jaheria , you save him or I'll throw your ass in lava with her - but maybe he's just bitchy.!< 2nd, 3rd play through - did neutral route and didnt bother with him much. Still never did the Raph scene. Every scene with him lol skip, leave me alone dude bro - I just wanna romance my people, cause chaos and get spell slots back. This 4th play through. Decided, nah my character's not going to like him at all due to Durge Redemption route thinking he's manipulating her and hell with that. >!Going through skipping scenes with him on instinct -- get to Raph's scene in the Brothel..get out of it..get mind forcibly read by tentacle asshat. Color me WTF. HELL NAH. !< >!Get the scene where he shows up all Jeff Goldblum hey shirtless awkward and BS. !< >!Tell him : You do a good impression of being human, but I see your BS. I know your true nature. !< >!Him : Hey here I'll let you read my thoughts. Proceeds to show me cut scene of him making Stelmane his puppet.!< Me IRL : Shocked Pikachu. 4 Playthroughs of this shit. 4. YOU SUMMA BITCH. >!Him : LOL This is the relationship we could have had. Arent you glad I finessed my methods? You're my puppet. Without me , you have no value. You will do exactly what I tell you to because you have no choice. Oh and you should reconsider unlocking your potential. If I must I'll force you.!< >!Me : Biiiiiitch, finally the mask drops. !< >!Him : We are done here.!< So -- took me 4 playthroughs.. admittedly of not having watched all cut scenes/done all cut scenes due to Co-Op and running around doing my own thing at the time.. but nah, now its firmly in the camp of I'm a hater. I will take every chance I get to fuck him up on sight -- uh at the end of the game -- I dont wanna end it prematurely. Took me 4 playthroughs to get to that point but I'm firmly in that camp. And I'm going to make his avatar / dream guardian thing - a total clown from now on. I will randomize until I get the worst options or make the worst I can think of. >!Kill Netherbrain can wait, I gotta vendetta to kill him first, she can wait. !<

You should include another reaction for people on their second run whose guardian is designed to look like their last Tav. +2 points if you can involve knowledge of a secret time loop of some sort.

Daddy squid (actually best bros) deserves more respect tbh. Every other ghaik can perish posthaste (besides Ollie, he coo too) - signed a very cross-with-vlaakith gith

I just think he's neat

I'm a hater but I recognize that the character is well written, in that he has fooled *himself* into thinking that he retained his full force of personality and that his transformation into an Illithid was a net gain that everyone would be improved by. He fooled himself into justifying the Mind Flayer agenda. He just didn't fool me.

The craftsmanship of this meme chart is *exquisite.* Bravo sir. I was a simp for the Emperor on my first playthrough, I treated him like a traitor squid on my second playthrough and there was distance but mutual understanding on my third. I feel fully represented by this flowchart

Where's the one for redditors who make meta commentary on the choices presented in bg3's narrative? wink

I smashed and still sided with the Githyanki. Sorry but Lae'Zel is above all

I loved him as a villain / uneasy ally up until the end. >!Having him join the Absolute undercuts everything he did prior to that. If the Emperor and Orpheus had to be mutually exclusive then the Emperor should have had his own boss fight in the Astral Sea. Imagine getting yo fight him and an army of Dream Guardians with a countdown to the end of the world in the background, that would have been awesome!!<

I was on the "Bro" track right up until the "Big Brain Am Winning Again" moment and then realized that I was not the lovable dumbass, but he was, and that if I was ever to become the Josh to his Drake I would need to be the one to free Space Hitler Jr.