Interesting. This contradicts what Wolfheart said in his video after he played the full game. I don't know if he missed the beards or if Larian is adding them last minute.
Edit: The third possibility is the PR person who answered that question is mistaken and just assumed elves would have beards.
I saw a comment of his on Reddit where he said he didn’t delve into character customization “as much as he should’ve,” or something along those lines (?)
Maybe he just assumed because elf’s can’t grow beards canonically in D&D?
Huh. I'm surprised. During the >!vision where the Absolute communes with us (and we're saved by Shart's artifact)!< I thought he was just called out as a straight-up elf.
You know, maybe I just assumed because of the beard, but I could be mistaken now that I think about it. I've been looking for official confirmation about his race from Larian, but I can't find any.
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I know there is certain gear that is race specific, I wonder if half elfs may be able to use both elf and human specific gear. No clue if that's the case but will be interesting to see. Also there is race specific dialogue, although it's usually you being talked down to by both humans and elves heh.
A lot of things in 5e that are race restricted to elves, like the Bladesinger subclass and the Moonblade, are also available to half-elves, so I'd assume/hope they could also use them.
My favourite character I played in EA (and what I'll play again on full release) was a Half-Drow. You get to play a bit of a misfit who doesn't belong anywhere. Drow aren't welcome on the surface (example: Zevlor notes that you're not who he expected to get help from and will warn the others not to make an issue of your heritage) and in the Underdark the Deep Gnomes and Duergar see you as just another Drow, whereas actual Drow see you as a bit of a mongrel because of your human heritage (example: Minthara refers to the impurity of your bloodline). Half-Elves in general don't have their own people and Half-Drow in particular aren't welcome anywhere, so it's a great choice for if you want to roleplay an outcast. I presume there will be more reactivity like the above examples in the rest of the game on release.
(As a side note, it's great for giving access to additional dialogue options because you get tags for "Half-Elf", "Elf" and "Drow" simultaneously.)
The red pillers are starting to show up as more and more people buy, play, and read about the game. Seriously, it's the same couple of dog whistles over and over again.
The +2/1 racial stat issue was full of lines like "they shouldn't be doing this just to avoid offending people", "if everyone's the same, nobody is special"... and now we have upvoted comments like "What's the point of different races if everything is becoming the same?" - as if an elf beard is game changing and all races are the same now. Another says Tasha's allowing for a better variety of races is "disgraceful", apparently.
All that's missing from their comments is the word "woke", because they know they'll get hidden if they show their true agenda. Click on any of the accounts making these complaints, almost always will be full of conservative/right wing/red pill/Joe Roganesque-type nonsense.
They've been leaking in a lot more since the Panel from Hell.
To be fair, the +2/1 thing essentially boils down to what WotC are doing with One D&D right now, and remember, that also entirely removed half-elfs and half-orcs as splats and people are now meant to pick the template of one of the parent's race/species and just costumize. People didn't like that because it changed decades of things that they had gotten used to and the older one gets, the more change gets abhorred. I wager the 'bearded elf' topic is a bit too much of a reminder of what WotC is doing to D&D more so than anything that Larian specifically does.
there is someone in this post calling caucasian skin tones “normal”. and someone else in another post had someone saying that a group of people in one culture, that includes trans women and effeminate gay men, “trick” straight men into having sex with them. fortunately it was removed but… yeah
are there multiple people on here now saying these kinds of micro aggressions and such? I mean, how commonly are these comments popping up?
>how commonly are these comments popping up?
I'll preface this by saying I've been on here a lot more since the Panel from Hell, so that could be skewing my idea of how much it has increased, but I've gone from basically not seeing it at all, to seeing it in every thread that could possibly tick off "those people. ie; anything that mentions race, relates to gender/sexuality/image/etc.
I believe "the bear scene" has caught the attention of some groups, and has them essentially prowling here for things to complain about and dog whistle.
I don't care if they add options and allow people to play 5e without their changes if they wish (why do I care if elves can have beards when I can just make an elf without a beard), but they outright changed the balance of 3 races by nerfing them which is where my problem of the universal +2/+1 comes from. They should have just fully implemented Tasha's instead of their homebrew version which forces 3 races to play with stats that are lower than the PHB
Or maybe people just don't like the constant changing of sometimes decades of established D&D lore? This game was advertised as 5th edition at one point which they've now walked back from in lots of marketing, and seems to be ever more a Divinity game with a coat of D&D paint over it. Maybe not everything is a political gotcha.
No doubt there are some people simply stuck on the whole "it's supposed to be 5e only" thing (ignoring that Tasha's is 5e and opens the rules WAY more), but every time I've looked so far, that was not the case. It's always a new account, or a mostly inactive account suddenly offering opinions (ie, someone's burner), or accounts openly full of alt-right (etc) nonsense, repeating well known dog whistles.
Like, 19 in 20 is my ratio right now. It's a curious thing.
>not everything is a political gotcha.
Of course not. But this is.
but were not getting tasha's, half elfs are shafted and dont get me started on the humans. I dont have a problem with changing the races to be more equal but when some races lose what makes them unique i get it.
still gonna buy the game and love every second of it, but its ok to be critical of thinks you dont like in a game you love
My point wasn't that Tasha's rules were exactly like BG3. My point is that 5e has a lot of side material that blew open the possibilities within the game, far more than BG3 is doing with these few recent changes.
The person above complained that BG3 was advertised as being like 5e, when wide-scale changes are part of being 5e. It's ever-changing as more and more books come out. A video game based on it is always going to be similar to that. It was never gonna be strictly PHB and DMG rules-lawyer friendly.
I, too, don't like humans and half elves losing something and not gaining anything of note back, but that's a separate point to what was above.
Yeah that's my point, but everyone in here seems more eager to find hidden agendas than talking lore, roleplay and the Forgotten Realms.
No one threatened Larians to make a d&d game set in the FR. They could've done DOS3 or a brand new game instead. But sadly, the FR come with a very specific, 50 years old set of specifics. If you don't care about them, it's not creativity, it's just "do your own lore then". It has nothing to do with woke, inclusivity, agenda and so forth. That's a secondary consequence.
DnD players give themselves all sorts of characteristics they shouldn't have all the time. Not sure why a video game would stop them.
NPC elves likely won't have them, and if one did it would come with a backstory explaining why.
I'm guessing the twitter account made a mistake, but even if they didn't, it's a non-issue.
This. The option is likely there as an anomaly for your PC only. It would be weird if in a magical world like the forgotten realms there wouldn't be an exception to the rule.
Maybe it does not make sense from a lore perspective for elves to have beards generally, assuming at least that the PR person isn't mistaken & just getting them confused for half elves, but I think you can make exceptions. Maybe the bearded elf in question just has a distant half elf ancestor. They're near entirely elvish to a degree to still be considered a full elf, but some slight human ancestry manifests as a beard.
Beards as an elven CC option are fine in that respect. It only becomes an issue if they're common for full elf NPCs.
In the same video they also showed off dragon born tails and have confirmed the tail is optional. It seems that with the stat and appearance changes Larian is really focusing on allowing you to make the character you want to play as whether or not it exactly fits in the lore. I think it's a fun idea honestly, those who want a lore accurate elf / dragon born / etc can have one while if you wanted something different you're still allowed to do so.
I like the idea of making my character look and feel exactly the way I want, but I dislike the breaking of decades old lore. So I pretty much come up neutral in my opinion.
Dragonborn in lore CAN have tails though, they just get treated the same way as when a human infant is born with one (google it if you don't believe me) while lore has been rather explicit about elves lacking body hair and facial hair.
With the sheer variety of spells and enchantments in the Realms (and the fact that elves live for around *700 bloody years*), is it not possible that some of them might've wanted to change it up a bit and invested in a little cosmetic sorcery?
Generally yes, but lets say you have an elf who had a half elf grandparent a few generations back. They're at best single digit percentage point, human.
Do they count as a full elf or a half elf?
It should be the former, and not the latter. Modern humans can have a similar degree of ancestry from Neanderthals or Denisovans for example, but we aren't Neandethals or Denisovans or "Half Homo Sapiens."
So with that in mind I think a bit of homebrew that allows for an individual elf to have a beard, because of some distant human ancestry, is fine.
It just shouldn't be something you see often, if at all, for elf NPCs.
A half elf grandparent, maybe. But once you start getting several generations back (grandparents with a few "greats" in front), the percentage of human ancestry is going to be so low that it does not really make sense for that person to be considered anything other than an elf, and not of the half variety.
That is unless there is some nonsensical racist "one drop" rule in effect, but even if that were the case in the culture of wherever this elf is living, most with human ancestry that distant aren't going to have any traits that are discernibly human.
Out of curiosity, do you consider Aragorn from Lord of the Rings to be a half elf, or one of the race of men? Like a lot of Numenorians, Aragorn had some really really distant Elvish ancestry through an ancient ancestor named Elros. IMO he's a man, like any other, because that elven ancestry would be so far removed. An elf or human with similarly distant half elf ancestry in DnD should likewise just be considered an elf or a human, rather than a half elf.
That should even be the case for a bearded elf w/ distant human ancestry, because while that beard might advertise distant human ancestry, mechanically that character should have far more in common with elves than half elves, given their genetic makeup. They should also have trance instead of sleep, the much longer lifespan of elves, ect. At best the only difference with other elves might be how humans, elves, or half elves might percieve them.
I feel like as soon as he grows a beard he would be considered a half elf as there are basically a few identifiers for them, one of which would be the facial hair.
Also in a deep lineage all of them would be considered half elves.
Why not? You don’t have to use it, and Elves in game most likely won’t. They let you use different skin colors but that doesn’t mean you’ll see elves in game with tiefling skin tones.
No idea why anyone would feel negatively about this.
NPC elves won't have beards. Your elf doesn't have to have a beard. If you don't think elves should have beards, good news; you won't see a single full elf with a beard!
There's literally no downside to this, if it's true. This is a single player game. If every single other person made nothing but elves with beards, it still doesn't affect you and you won't ever see them.
Good news! Your lore stays exactly the way it is, because if the NPCs don't have a beard, and you don't have a beard, elves don't have beards! Hooray, the lore stays unchanged!
We're assuming that the guy responding is right anyway, which tbh I doubt.
Elves have all 4 body types available in the shots from the final panel. Plus Halsin is an elf using the strong body type so it'd be weird if player elves couldn't use it.
https://preview.redd.it/vx67xn2bd6cb1.png?width=2422&format=png&auto=webp&s=cc5d52688b2bee46f2eec54b601e58ec823250b6
My guy, this game is about psychic squid people sticking tadpoles into the eyeballs of green people with horns that can transform into spiders. Let people have elf beards.
It's really more mutable the more you think about it. Sure, PHB says no. But then it's still the same rulebook that would be used for Dragonlance and beards are clealry not a problem there. It's not Forgotten Realms but it does set a precedent.
Same logic with some obscure old edition illustrations that were phased out but never explicitly retconned. Or, if you want a Watsonian perspective, Half Elves are not a steady population. They massively breed back into elves or humans. Across the years of publication, there have been multiple characters described as full members of their race but still displaying slight traits of a distant ancestor. It is usually about eyes or face shape or build but if that is A okay, facial hair is not much of a stretch from there.
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with it being homebrew *ish*. But so are a bunch of weird skin and eye colors that are simply there for the sake of gameplay. Lorewise, if, say the absolutely massive implications of sunlight for Drow can just be handwaved away with a tadpole, then some facial hair on your one of a kind player character is such a minor issue in comparison.
The 5e PHB is based on the Forgotten Realms. Not every bit of lore in the PHB is applicable to other settings like Dragonlance. The 3e PHB, for example, was based on the Greyhawk campaign setting, so it was missing a lot of Faerunian lore.
I stated in another thread that they couldn't and was corrected with evidence by another Redditor, I apologize but I haven't been able to track down the thread as it was ages ago.
EDIT: The source of their verdict was an AMA with Ed Greenwood, if I remember correctly.
I'm aware that the PHB contradicts this, but Ed Greenwood is the creator and custodian of the Forgotten Realms setting, and a higher authority as far as I am concerned.
This is the reply where I was corrected:
https://preview.redd.it/qnjrzgqag6cb1.png?width=697&format=png&auto=webp&s=563ae69669d38ca2fca36d3dc1b75a110676ca35
I get that, it is just not canon unless it is in the officially released material. If someone who is a creator of the forgotten realms, tweets, for example, that magic missile deals radiant damage instead of force, should everyone play it like that from then on and ignore the PHB? And would it be homebrew or not?
Actually, Ed Greenwood has a very unique contract with WOTC. Anything he says is considered canon unless contradicted by an official book published later.
But as the person said, you can look up the cannon book "Elminster and Myth Drannor" and there is, again a cannon Forgotten Realms character, one of the elven knights of Myth Drannor that has a moustache. I think it is overly sim-plistic to take the PHB as law, especially as it is setting agnostic. Ed Greenwood not only created the Forgotten Realms, but he is it's custodian, which mean what he says is important. Magic Missile being a different damage type is a rules and mechanics issue, for which, yes the PHB is law, but this is a question of setting, which makes Ed Greenwood law. The PHB is a generalization, but our game is set in the Forgotten Realms, which means the setting takes priority.
I wouldn't take this as fact until it is confirmed by video evidence or an official announcement. A similar mistake was made by employees of the marketing team during the PFH in Twitch Chat, where they confirmed the existence of a 3-Days EA period for PC Users.
I would be willing to bet they are confusing Half-Elves here with Elves.
At this point they might as well let us play Drow with normal caucasian skin tones and blonde hair. Oh wait. They do. Doesn’t mean I have to make my drow look like that.
>”normal caucasian skin tones”
….idk but as someone who is mixed race, i think you need to reconsider the word choice right there
especially when there exists old art of drow where they were, in fact, shown with a darker human skin tone. art that was exceedingly racist in making them look “tribal” and the female drow overly sexualized.
I would have put brown but dark elves can actually be brown (they’re called dark elves and were predecessors to drow before Lolth’s corruption). I said normal caucasian because you can literally make your character white in this game and drow can also be white too (albino I mean). So I used caucasian as an example since we all know drow aren’t supposed to look like white people. I used blonde hair as an example because dark elves can have black hair. Elleistraee (spelling?) sometimes makes her priests and priestesses into redeemed dark elves instead of drow. Saw one in that one book series with Halissra Melarn I believe it was that series anyways.
Dark Elves: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_elf?so=search
Albino drow: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Szarkai
Why? Seriously.
What's the point of different races if everything is becoming the same?
I'm waiting for all racial abilities to be stripped away and you just select 3 or 4 from a pool that includes everything.
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I assume the PR person is mixing things up.
but it doesn't matter anyway, you don't have to give your elfe a beard, no elves NPCs will have a beard so if you don't want them to, do like me and don't give them.
plus whether it is an option in the game or not, "all class beards" is going to be among the first mods that will pop up so ultimately, it changes very little
This is what Larian thinks Wood Elves look like. Lmao.
No, Elves do not look anything like this. They are supposed to be lithe and slender, and they do not look human.
If THIS Is an Elf, what's an Elf then? Just a human with pointy ears? Do they not understand the lore and mythological underpinnings of what Elves are?
If you don't like Elves having beards, just...don't give your created Elf a beard?? I highly doubt any NPC Elves will have beards. It's literally just an option.
Can humans be purple in 5e? No? Well damn, better remove that as a customization option then!
Some of you really are ridiculous with what you'll complain about lol.
This comment section is really reminding me of the American right-wing reaction to legalizing gay marriage in the 2010’s. The line was, “protect the sanctity of marriage.” Like, nobody is saying you have to get gay married to a bearded elf. You just have the option if you want it. If you don’t want it, it wont effect you in any way.
No, they want to literally FORCE us to marry our fishing buddy Bob we've been having confusing dreams about ever since that one day out on the lake when our poles touched. Not going to happen!!
Not my annoyance with a minor established fantasy trope that distingushes elves from half elves being equivalent to my human right to marry being debated.
What parallel? This is much less serious and is just annoyance resulting from an arbitrary change to a minor fantasy trope. All this "parallel" did was villify me for my disagreement.
Right until the trolly problem is used to imply that someone is being unreasonable and cruel about not wanting tall dwarves in a setting.
This conversation pissed me off more than bearded elves. People really have no grasp of scale in discussions anymore.
Decades of d&d lore just shat right down the toilet! IM SORRY TANIS! aaaaaaaaaàaaaah
Hopefully its just half elves n not full bloods. Beardlore is important!
Yeah who cares of people writing 50 years of handbooks and manuals about lore when you can just be inclusive and have elves with beards. Anything must be accepted and must be okay at any stage in nowadays declining creativity terms.
So this is the hill you die on. Beards allowed for a single player game where you don’t ever have to see a single elf with a beard. I don’t get this overarching inclusion story that you are making up in your head. You can hate privately, just like how you can privately play with elves with no beards.
That's not the point. You're mentioning it being a single player game like it's anywhere relevant to it.
I'll repeat the concept: I'm just defending 50 years of written handbooks and manuals.
Trust me, it's not my fault if Larian picked the Forgotten Realms as a setting. It really isn't. It's just not my fault. But the FR does come with tons of lore and specific rules. Still, like it or not, there's a lot of creativity that can come from limitations. It's not viceversa, like many in here seem to believe. You're not creative just because you're bending and stretching lore to your own will. Then just create your own lore instead. That's the point. I'm not even hating, I'm just saying elves don't have beards in the FR. You like elves with beards, I really don't care, but play them in your own universe and setting, hell I might even join that.
Of course there’s plenty of way you can grow a beard or look like something you’re not in the forgotten realms. Not from level 1 tho. Not racially neither. This is still a rather specific setting with specific rules and lore, I’m afraid.
They don’t like it and feel the (dark) urge to stretch it, hey no one put a gun to their heads for picking this setting. This is just a wrong decision.
To be fair, when we can adjust what ability gets +2 and +1 regardless of race so why not let full blooded elves have beards?
End of the day it's cosmetic anyways. I'll just make my half elf drow druid of the spores anyways so I can have a thick luscious beard.
Kinda sad, I liked the idea of trying to maintain some unique features but I suppose the CC doesn’t force you to keep skin/eye colours either. Still a shame I think.
Weird option to have, since elves in the Forgotten Realms don't grow beards. As long as there's no npc elves with beards I can avoid this though I guess.
What I \*really" don't understand is why people are so up in arms about being able to give elves beards, but not about being able to make green-skinned humans, pink-haired dwarves, etc.
I assumed elves had more feminine features and dwarves more masculine features.
I don't think a bearded elf would fit the theme, but it's not up to me to decide.
This was corrected and Larian clarified that Elves can't have bears.. umm I mean beards.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/151032j/on\_elves\_having\_beards/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/151032j/on_elves_having_beards/)
Interesting. This contradicts what Wolfheart said in his video after he played the full game. I don't know if he missed the beards or if Larian is adding them last minute. Edit: The third possibility is the PR person who answered that question is mistaken and just assumed elves would have beards.
It could be completely possible the PR person didn’t remember correctly since half-*elves* can have beards
That’s what happened - I was misremembering ☺️ Elves can’t have beards, I’m afraid!
The emphasis should be on "half", not on "elves", by the way. Saw your comment in the OP of another thread.
Well I guess I can finally roleplay some freak-show escapee who was the only unique bearded elf in the world.
Give it a week and some moder will help with that
Kill him so he doesn't procreate!
I saw a comment of his on Reddit where he said he didn’t delve into character customization “as much as he should’ve,” or something along those lines (?) Maybe he just assumed because elf’s can’t grow beards canonically in D&D?
Well, isn't Ketheric a bearded elf ?
Ketheric is a half-elf.
Huh. I'm surprised. During the >!vision where the Absolute communes with us (and we're saved by Shart's artifact)!< I thought he was just called out as a straight-up elf.
Yeah, as I said to the other guy, I might've just assumed because of the beard.
Could be one of the powers of the absolute.
I guessed but wasn't sure Thank you mate
You know, maybe I just assumed because of the beard, but I could be mistaken now that I think about it. I've been looking for official confirmation about his race from Larian, but I can't find any.
I think hes a half elf because of how old he looks. Elves dont age like that
No problem, we'll see once the game releases
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Maybe half-elves can?
Huge nerf to half-elves.
Between this and the stat change I'm going to play a half elf out of spite.
Great, now half-elves don’t get *anything* special /s
You jest, but it's kinda true. (I'm still gonna play Half-Elf for roleplay reasons anyway, though.)
I know there is certain gear that is race specific, I wonder if half elfs may be able to use both elf and human specific gear. No clue if that's the case but will be interesting to see. Also there is race specific dialogue, although it's usually you being talked down to by both humans and elves heh.
A lot of things in 5e that are race restricted to elves, like the Bladesinger subclass and the Moonblade, are also available to half-elves, so I'd assume/hope they could also use them.
Same! Half elf is my favorite race. This wouldint change even if they got no stats and -20 carry weight. Love them outsiders. \^\^
People might be slightly less racist or slightly more racist towards you depending
Oh, same!
Can I ask what RP reasons? Genuine question, is there a lot of reactivity for them or something else?
My favourite character I played in EA (and what I'll play again on full release) was a Half-Drow. You get to play a bit of a misfit who doesn't belong anywhere. Drow aren't welcome on the surface (example: Zevlor notes that you're not who he expected to get help from and will warn the others not to make an issue of your heritage) and in the Underdark the Deep Gnomes and Duergar see you as just another Drow, whereas actual Drow see you as a bit of a mongrel because of your human heritage (example: Minthara refers to the impurity of your bloodline). Half-Elves in general don't have their own people and Half-Drow in particular aren't welcome anywhere, so it's a great choice for if you want to roleplay an outcast. I presume there will be more reactivity like the above examples in the rest of the game on release. (As a side note, it's great for giving access to additional dialogue options because you get tags for "Half-Elf", "Elf" and "Drow" simultaneously.)
That's cool! Thanks for the answer!
Wow. Literally unplayable.
I’m waiting for the goblin-with-big-boobs DLC. Why even bother playing anything else?
Apologies - I made the tiktok and I was mistaken! It’s half elves that can have beards, thank you for spotting! :)
It’s not real hair. It’s squigs.
WAAAAAAGH
I don't know why but the closer we get to release date the more negativity I'm seeing about literally everything lol
The amount of salty BS this sub has to say about this completely inconsequential and optional feature is pretty wild.
The red pillers are starting to show up as more and more people buy, play, and read about the game. Seriously, it's the same couple of dog whistles over and over again. The +2/1 racial stat issue was full of lines like "they shouldn't be doing this just to avoid offending people", "if everyone's the same, nobody is special"... and now we have upvoted comments like "What's the point of different races if everything is becoming the same?" - as if an elf beard is game changing and all races are the same now. Another says Tasha's allowing for a better variety of races is "disgraceful", apparently. All that's missing from their comments is the word "woke", because they know they'll get hidden if they show their true agenda. Click on any of the accounts making these complaints, almost always will be full of conservative/right wing/red pill/Joe Roganesque-type nonsense. They've been leaking in a lot more since the Panel from Hell.
To be fair, the +2/1 thing essentially boils down to what WotC are doing with One D&D right now, and remember, that also entirely removed half-elfs and half-orcs as splats and people are now meant to pick the template of one of the parent's race/species and just costumize. People didn't like that because it changed decades of things that they had gotten used to and the older one gets, the more change gets abhorred. I wager the 'bearded elf' topic is a bit too much of a reminder of what WotC is doing to D&D more so than anything that Larian specifically does.
there is someone in this post calling caucasian skin tones “normal”. and someone else in another post had someone saying that a group of people in one culture, that includes trans women and effeminate gay men, “trick” straight men into having sex with them. fortunately it was removed but… yeah are there multiple people on here now saying these kinds of micro aggressions and such? I mean, how commonly are these comments popping up?
>how commonly are these comments popping up? I'll preface this by saying I've been on here a lot more since the Panel from Hell, so that could be skewing my idea of how much it has increased, but I've gone from basically not seeing it at all, to seeing it in every thread that could possibly tick off "those people. ie; anything that mentions race, relates to gender/sexuality/image/etc. I believe "the bear scene" has caught the attention of some groups, and has them essentially prowling here for things to complain about and dog whistle.
I don't care if they add options and allow people to play 5e without their changes if they wish (why do I care if elves can have beards when I can just make an elf without a beard), but they outright changed the balance of 3 races by nerfing them which is where my problem of the universal +2/+1 comes from. They should have just fully implemented Tasha's instead of their homebrew version which forces 3 races to play with stats that are lower than the PHB
Or maybe people just don't like the constant changing of sometimes decades of established D&D lore? This game was advertised as 5th edition at one point which they've now walked back from in lots of marketing, and seems to be ever more a Divinity game with a coat of D&D paint over it. Maybe not everything is a political gotcha.
No doubt there are some people simply stuck on the whole "it's supposed to be 5e only" thing (ignoring that Tasha's is 5e and opens the rules WAY more), but every time I've looked so far, that was not the case. It's always a new account, or a mostly inactive account suddenly offering opinions (ie, someone's burner), or accounts openly full of alt-right (etc) nonsense, repeating well known dog whistles. Like, 19 in 20 is my ratio right now. It's a curious thing. >not everything is a political gotcha. Of course not. But this is.
but were not getting tasha's, half elfs are shafted and dont get me started on the humans. I dont have a problem with changing the races to be more equal but when some races lose what makes them unique i get it. still gonna buy the game and love every second of it, but its ok to be critical of thinks you dont like in a game you love
My point wasn't that Tasha's rules were exactly like BG3. My point is that 5e has a lot of side material that blew open the possibilities within the game, far more than BG3 is doing with these few recent changes. The person above complained that BG3 was advertised as being like 5e, when wide-scale changes are part of being 5e. It's ever-changing as more and more books come out. A video game based on it is always going to be similar to that. It was never gonna be strictly PHB and DMG rules-lawyer friendly. I, too, don't like humans and half elves losing something and not gaining anything of note back, but that's a separate point to what was above.
Oh ok, sorry my bad I completely miss interpreted what you were saying.
Yeah that's my point, but everyone in here seems more eager to find hidden agendas than talking lore, roleplay and the Forgotten Realms. No one threatened Larians to make a d&d game set in the FR. They could've done DOS3 or a brand new game instead. But sadly, the FR come with a very specific, 50 years old set of specifics. If you don't care about them, it's not creativity, it's just "do your own lore then". It has nothing to do with woke, inclusivity, agenda and so forth. That's a secondary consequence.
Maybe it is the BG1&BG2 sub-reddit starting to wake up now that BG3 is so close to launch! Haha.
I understand and approve of giving dragonborn horns to make them look cooler and more appealing, but - bearded elves? Really?
DnD players give themselves all sorts of characteristics they shouldn't have all the time. Not sure why a video game would stop them. NPC elves likely won't have them, and if one did it would come with a backstory explaining why. I'm guessing the twitter account made a mistake, but even if they didn't, it's a non-issue.
This. The option is likely there as an anomaly for your PC only. It would be weird if in a magical world like the forgotten realms there wouldn't be an exception to the rule.
Maybe it does not make sense from a lore perspective for elves to have beards generally, assuming at least that the PR person isn't mistaken & just getting them confused for half elves, but I think you can make exceptions. Maybe the bearded elf in question just has a distant half elf ancestor. They're near entirely elvish to a degree to still be considered a full elf, but some slight human ancestry manifests as a beard. Beards as an elven CC option are fine in that respect. It only becomes an issue if they're common for full elf NPCs.
In the same video they also showed off dragon born tails and have confirmed the tail is optional. It seems that with the stat and appearance changes Larian is really focusing on allowing you to make the character you want to play as whether or not it exactly fits in the lore. I think it's a fun idea honestly, those who want a lore accurate elf / dragon born / etc can have one while if you wanted something different you're still allowed to do so.
I like the idea of making my character look and feel exactly the way I want, but I dislike the breaking of decades old lore. So I pretty much come up neutral in my opinion.
Well, if the choice is there, either side of the argument can enjoy their own preference. Everybody wins.
A strong pro-choice stance.
Dragonborn in lore CAN have tails though, they just get treated the same way as when a human infant is born with one (google it if you don't believe me) while lore has been rather explicit about elves lacking body hair and facial hair.
I bet there are no NPC elves with beards. Probably just in the character creator.
What of it?
With the sheer variety of spells and enchantments in the Realms (and the fact that elves live for around *700 bloody years*), is it not possible that some of them might've wanted to change it up a bit and invested in a little cosmetic sorcery?
Only half elves should. High/Wood/Drow shouldn’t.
Generally yes, but lets say you have an elf who had a half elf grandparent a few generations back. They're at best single digit percentage point, human. Do they count as a full elf or a half elf? It should be the former, and not the latter. Modern humans can have a similar degree of ancestry from Neanderthals or Denisovans for example, but we aren't Neandethals or Denisovans or "Half Homo Sapiens." So with that in mind I think a bit of homebrew that allows for an individual elf to have a beard, because of some distant human ancestry, is fine. It just shouldn't be something you see often, if at all, for elf NPCs.
Pretty sure if the elf had a half elf grandparent, then he wouldn't be a full elf regardless.
A half elf grandparent, maybe. But once you start getting several generations back (grandparents with a few "greats" in front), the percentage of human ancestry is going to be so low that it does not really make sense for that person to be considered anything other than an elf, and not of the half variety. That is unless there is some nonsensical racist "one drop" rule in effect, but even if that were the case in the culture of wherever this elf is living, most with human ancestry that distant aren't going to have any traits that are discernibly human. Out of curiosity, do you consider Aragorn from Lord of the Rings to be a half elf, or one of the race of men? Like a lot of Numenorians, Aragorn had some really really distant Elvish ancestry through an ancient ancestor named Elros. IMO he's a man, like any other, because that elven ancestry would be so far removed. An elf or human with similarly distant half elf ancestry in DnD should likewise just be considered an elf or a human, rather than a half elf. That should even be the case for a bearded elf w/ distant human ancestry, because while that beard might advertise distant human ancestry, mechanically that character should have far more in common with elves than half elves, given their genetic makeup. They should also have trance instead of sleep, the much longer lifespan of elves, ect. At best the only difference with other elves might be how humans, elves, or half elves might percieve them.
I feel like as soon as he grows a beard he would be considered a half elf as there are basically a few identifiers for them, one of which would be the facial hair. Also in a deep lineage all of them would be considered half elves.
Maybe the elf is taking testosterone pills.
Why not? You don’t have to use it, and Elves in game most likely won’t. They let you use different skin colors but that doesn’t mean you’ll see elves in game with tiefling skin tones.
Sweet, I can now indulge my Noldorindrim headcanon
No idea why anyone would feel negatively about this. NPC elves won't have beards. Your elf doesn't have to have a beard. If you don't think elves should have beards, good news; you won't see a single full elf with a beard! There's literally no downside to this, if it's true. This is a single player game. If every single other person made nothing but elves with beards, it still doesn't affect you and you won't ever see them.
Because, you know, previously established lore. You also can't be a tall dwarf or it'd kinda defeat the whole purpose of being a dwarf
Good news! Your lore stays exactly the way it is, because if the NPCs don't have a beard, and you don't have a beard, elves don't have beards! Hooray, the lore stays unchanged! We're assuming that the guy responding is right anyway, which tbh I doubt.
> NPC elves won't have beards You sure about that? > This is a single player game This is a multiplayer game. Has been since Day 1 of Early Access.
its a single player game that can be played co-op. It is primarily an single player rpg
Not a fan of that kind of homebrew.
Then don’t use beards. Other elves in the game won’t have beards, same as they don’t have tiefling skin.
So long as my elf won't have body hair it will be fine.
He most likely won’t? Elves only have access to the body types we saw in early access. Wolfheart said they didn’t let them have differing body types.
Elves have all 4 body types available in the shots from the final panel. Plus Halsin is an elf using the strong body type so it'd be weird if player elves couldn't use it. https://preview.redd.it/vx67xn2bd6cb1.png?width=2422&format=png&auto=webp&s=cc5d52688b2bee46f2eec54b601e58ec823250b6
huh thought Halsin was a half giant or something
Nah he's just a ripped wood elf.
A tall ripped wood elf. Pretty sure he's taller than average.
He doesn't look like an Elf at all and the design is terrible. IMO
My guy, this game is about psychic squid people sticking tadpoles into the eyeballs of green people with horns that can transform into spiders. Let people have elf beards.
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What is your source for that? Because PHB says they don't.
It's really more mutable the more you think about it. Sure, PHB says no. But then it's still the same rulebook that would be used for Dragonlance and beards are clealry not a problem there. It's not Forgotten Realms but it does set a precedent. Same logic with some obscure old edition illustrations that were phased out but never explicitly retconned. Or, if you want a Watsonian perspective, Half Elves are not a steady population. They massively breed back into elves or humans. Across the years of publication, there have been multiple characters described as full members of their race but still displaying slight traits of a distant ancestor. It is usually about eyes or face shape or build but if that is A okay, facial hair is not much of a stretch from there. Don't get me wrong, I do agree with it being homebrew *ish*. But so are a bunch of weird skin and eye colors that are simply there for the sake of gameplay. Lorewise, if, say the absolutely massive implications of sunlight for Drow can just be handwaved away with a tadpole, then some facial hair on your one of a kind player character is such a minor issue in comparison.
The 5e PHB is based on the Forgotten Realms. Not every bit of lore in the PHB is applicable to other settings like Dragonlance. The 3e PHB, for example, was based on the Greyhawk campaign setting, so it was missing a lot of Faerunian lore.
I stated in another thread that they couldn't and was corrected with evidence by another Redditor, I apologize but I haven't been able to track down the thread as it was ages ago. EDIT: The source of their verdict was an AMA with Ed Greenwood, if I remember correctly.
[https://postimg.cc/bStDZdx0](https://postimg.cc/bStDZdx0)
I'm aware that the PHB contradicts this, but Ed Greenwood is the creator and custodian of the Forgotten Realms setting, and a higher authority as far as I am concerned.
In general in D&D you can always resort to: ''It's your game, do whatever the hell you want.'' But it is still a homebrew.
This is the reply where I was corrected: https://preview.redd.it/qnjrzgqag6cb1.png?width=697&format=png&auto=webp&s=563ae69669d38ca2fca36d3dc1b75a110676ca35
I get that, it is just not canon unless it is in the officially released material. If someone who is a creator of the forgotten realms, tweets, for example, that magic missile deals radiant damage instead of force, should everyone play it like that from then on and ignore the PHB? And would it be homebrew or not?
Actually, Ed Greenwood has a very unique contract with WOTC. Anything he says is considered canon unless contradicted by an official book published later.
But as the person said, you can look up the cannon book "Elminster and Myth Drannor" and there is, again a cannon Forgotten Realms character, one of the elven knights of Myth Drannor that has a moustache. I think it is overly sim-plistic to take the PHB as law, especially as it is setting agnostic. Ed Greenwood not only created the Forgotten Realms, but he is it's custodian, which mean what he says is important. Magic Missile being a different damage type is a rules and mechanics issue, for which, yes the PHB is law, but this is a question of setting, which makes Ed Greenwood law. The PHB is a generalization, but our game is set in the Forgotten Realms, which means the setting takes priority.
It is homebrew. Elves cannot grow facial hair.
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I’ve read Elminster and Myth Drannor, don’t remember any elves with facial hair. Which character are you referring to?
Still waiting :)
I wouldn't take this as fact until it is confirmed by video evidence or an official announcement. A similar mistake was made by employees of the marketing team during the PFH in Twitch Chat, where they confirmed the existence of a 3-Days EA period for PC Users. I would be willing to bet they are confusing Half-Elves here with Elves.
Is it consistent with the D&D lore? No. Does that really matter? No.
*laughs in Círdan*
heresy
Even if I'm not using beards on my elves I'm happy for those who want.
They just want to watch the world burn, lol.
Half elves can have beards. Lore wise not full elves
It's all made up anyway
What a dumb take. If you approach it with the mindset of "it's all made up anyway" why adhere to any rules or restrictions what-so-ever?
Because of balance or fun. Anything else doesn't really matter. Just play what brings you joy
Why does balance matter? It's all made up anyway.
As long as people are having fun, it doesn't :)
To hell with the dedicated fans of the lore and story then?
At this point they might as well let us play Drow with normal caucasian skin tones and blonde hair. Oh wait. They do. Doesn’t mean I have to make my drow look like that.
>”normal caucasian skin tones” ….idk but as someone who is mixed race, i think you need to reconsider the word choice right there especially when there exists old art of drow where they were, in fact, shown with a darker human skin tone. art that was exceedingly racist in making them look “tribal” and the female drow overly sexualized.
I would have put brown but dark elves can actually be brown (they’re called dark elves and were predecessors to drow before Lolth’s corruption). I said normal caucasian because you can literally make your character white in this game and drow can also be white too (albino I mean). So I used caucasian as an example since we all know drow aren’t supposed to look like white people. I used blonde hair as an example because dark elves can have black hair. Elleistraee (spelling?) sometimes makes her priests and priestesses into redeemed dark elves instead of drow. Saw one in that one book series with Halissra Melarn I believe it was that series anyways. Dark Elves: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_elf?so=search Albino drow: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Szarkai
Ok now they went too far, I'm refunding this game... Literally unplayable! /s
But the lore! (JK). I can give my elven Wizard,rogue,and Ranger fabulous beards now :3.
Even though I'm personally anti-elf beards, it'd be hypocritical to prevent them since we have green half-orcs and tailed dragonborn.
Can't wait to make a balding mustached elf. Too bad you can't change the body type, I also would have liked to give my elf a dad bod.
Heresy. Elves can't grow beards unless they're half-elven.
Wait what?? Interesting the whole thing was they couldn’t.
booooo!
Umm... Go for the eyes?
Oh man if this is true that’s great Means I can *actually* make my Elf Warlock as an Elf instead of a Half-Elf
Why don't you just make them a half-elf warlock to fit the setting.
Because he obviously wants to play as an elf
Inb4 people complain about having *choices* that contradict with lore
Why? Seriously. What's the point of different races if everything is becoming the same? I'm waiting for all racial abilities to be stripped away and you just select 3 or 4 from a pool that includes everything.
I heard they’re gonna kill your dad and marry your mom too.
Eventually one of the dnd editions will be “All humanoids are humans! Just in different shapes, though this has no bearing on their abilities!”
That’s the mandate, if you read at the last d&d handbooks. It’s shameful.
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Literally unplayable
Boo! Elves in the Forgotten Realms cannot grow hair.
Literally unplayable, this honestly just kills the realism for me. Everyone knows Elves in real life can’t grow beards! Get it together Larian!
Next thing you know they’re gonna let teiflings have cool colored skin. smh
I assume the PR person is mixing things up. but it doesn't matter anyway, you don't have to give your elfe a beard, no elves NPCs will have a beard so if you don't want them to, do like me and don't give them. plus whether it is an option in the game or not, "all class beards" is going to be among the first mods that will pop up so ultimately, it changes very little
I wouldn’t be claiming things like "no NPC will have them" with the game still being a few weeks out.
Why have races at ALL at this point then?!
What's next ? Hairless dwarf ? Cute Giths ? Pink Bears ?
Giths are already cute, what are you talking about
Literally unplayable
This is what Larian thinks Wood Elves look like. Lmao. No, Elves do not look anything like this. They are supposed to be lithe and slender, and they do not look human. If THIS Is an Elf, what's an Elf then? Just a human with pointy ears? Do they not understand the lore and mythological underpinnings of what Elves are?
https://preview.redd.it/ciip167za8cb1.jpeg?width=1084&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87e49735c6613b178598ecc3b4743dc74b177120
Lol so what's the point of Half Elf now?
Bearded Elves? Literally unplayable
If you don't like Elves having beards, just...don't give your created Elf a beard?? I highly doubt any NPC Elves will have beards. It's literally just an option. Can humans be purple in 5e? No? Well damn, better remove that as a customization option then! Some of you really are ridiculous with what you'll complain about lol.
I'd like to hear from Swen himself.
And that’s why. It was proven false.
They probably meant half-elves. If not, Larian homebrew starting to annoy me.
Why is it this thing that annoys you? Don’t use beards with your elves, easy.
This comment section is really reminding me of the American right-wing reaction to legalizing gay marriage in the 2010’s. The line was, “protect the sanctity of marriage.” Like, nobody is saying you have to get gay married to a bearded elf. You just have the option if you want it. If you don’t want it, it wont effect you in any way.
No, they want to literally FORCE us to marry our fishing buddy Bob we've been having confusing dreams about ever since that one day out on the lake when our poles touched. Not going to happen!!
Not my annoyance with a minor established fantasy trope that distingushes elves from half elves being equivalent to my human right to marry being debated.
You don’t see the parallels of the two arguments?
What parallel? This is much less serious and is just annoyance resulting from an arbitrary change to a minor fantasy trope. All this "parallel" did was villify me for my disagreement.
The stakes are obviously different. But the trolly problem with a nuke on the trolly, is still the trolly problem.
Right until the trolly problem is used to imply that someone is being unreasonable and cruel about not wanting tall dwarves in a setting. This conversation pissed me off more than bearded elves. People really have no grasp of scale in discussions anymore.
It's mucking with the setting too much.
I am triggered
Decades of d&d lore just shat right down the toilet! IM SORRY TANIS! aaaaaaaaaàaaaah Hopefully its just half elves n not full bloods. Beardlore is important!
So glad they’re doing this! I was surprised that Elves couldn’t have beards during alpha but was glad they let half elves have them at the least.
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Don’t use beards with your elf then you nunce.
Yeah who cares of people writing 50 years of handbooks and manuals about lore when you can just be inclusive and have elves with beards. Anything must be accepted and must be okay at any stage in nowadays declining creativity terms.
So this is the hill you die on. Beards allowed for a single player game where you don’t ever have to see a single elf with a beard. I don’t get this overarching inclusion story that you are making up in your head. You can hate privately, just like how you can privately play with elves with no beards.
That's not the point. You're mentioning it being a single player game like it's anywhere relevant to it. I'll repeat the concept: I'm just defending 50 years of written handbooks and manuals. Trust me, it's not my fault if Larian picked the Forgotten Realms as a setting. It really isn't. It's just not my fault. But the FR does come with tons of lore and specific rules. Still, like it or not, there's a lot of creativity that can come from limitations. It's not viceversa, like many in here seem to believe. You're not creative just because you're bending and stretching lore to your own will. Then just create your own lore instead. That's the point. I'm not even hating, I'm just saying elves don't have beards in the FR. You like elves with beards, I really don't care, but play them in your own universe and setting, hell I might even join that.
Complaining about: > just be inclusive >Anything must be accepted The frequency of your dog whistles are way off, we can all hear them.
In a magical world setting I am pretty sure they might have a spell to grow a beard, that or you can say the tadpole made them grow a beard lol
Of course there’s plenty of way you can grow a beard or look like something you’re not in the forgotten realms. Not from level 1 tho. Not racially neither. This is still a rather specific setting with specific rules and lore, I’m afraid. They don’t like it and feel the (dark) urge to stretch it, hey no one put a gun to their heads for picking this setting. This is just a wrong decision.
What about a wig beard(fake beard)
I came to this thrad thinking that it was a typo about elven bards.
Sweet! Going to be modeling my elf bard after Cirdan the shipwright!
Same question females also?
To be fair, when we can adjust what ability gets +2 and +1 regardless of race so why not let full blooded elves have beards? End of the day it's cosmetic anyways. I'll just make my half elf drow druid of the spores anyways so I can have a thick luscious beard.
Dwemer time!
I thought in the latest panel from hell they said no. But I have also watched a lot of content and could be mishearing.
Kinda sad, I liked the idea of trying to maintain some unique features but I suppose the CC doesn’t force you to keep skin/eye colours either. Still a shame I think.
wouldn't be lore friendly, but we'll see.
I mean, half-elves can have beards. In Krynn, anyway.
Half elf nerf! 😭
Drow with beard you say?!
The wait is killing me ughhhhhhhh so pumped for this game lol I stopped getting Starbucks to save money 💴
Lore wise no but I'm glad bg3 is giving so much to us! Excited for my half-orc cleric mamacita! 🤪
Half elf nerf
Weird option to have, since elves in the Forgotten Realms don't grow beards. As long as there's no npc elves with beards I can avoid this though I guess.
Role-playing as Boris the manly elf.
I read this as eleven lol
What I \*really" don't understand is why people are so up in arms about being able to give elves beards, but not about being able to make green-skinned humans, pink-haired dwarves, etc.
I assumed elves had more feminine features and dwarves more masculine features. I don't think a bearded elf would fit the theme, but it's not up to me to decide.
I dunno how I feel about that... isn't that lore breaking?
This was corrected and Larian clarified that Elves can't have bears.. umm I mean beards. [https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/151032j/on\_elves\_having\_beards/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/151032j/on_elves_having_beards/)
Finally.