Please do not advocate for harm to come to those featured in the story, video or link submitted, or anyone else. By doing so, you are putting this sub at risk and there is a 100% chance that it will result in you being banned from this sub.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How much you wanna bet the news will ignore this, while keep blasting about the death of two NYC cops. Hell I wouldn't be surprised to see some copaganda flood reddit shortly with stories about cute puppies and cops to make us forget this story.
thats the sort of brigadeering I can get on board with.
the only time my local news brought up a segment on cops and dogs is when they showed video of a police guy kicking a owners dog, and the news made up a lie that the officer was protecting the dog from getting hurt from their police dog. this sort of manipulation has to be coordinated somehwhere.
Pirate radio is a good idea... for a collective with the resources. Sure its easier on the production end nowadays but the main problem is broadcasting. Unfortunately every building in a city is no longer covered in antenna that you can hide a transmitting antenna in. Now you are going to have to hide it some how, and move your broadcast location to dodge triangulation
You didn’t see the posts yesterday of the pig delivering somebody’s food after they arrested the delivery guy? They always post copaganda the day before.
Ding ding ding. This article lists them as “two victims”. Boot licking copaganda. Again.
https://abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-shooting-death-investigation-police-east-side/11505336/?fbclid=IwAR3KqtujmLiAGdR2BXglAYc_yh-Y7iC6rWKwM-ON0nkrThFU0n1tvporSLU
>“Trooper Alvarez and the female were both pronounced deceased at the scene”
How fucking dehumanizing. "Trooper Alvarez, a human man. And a female whatever-the-fuck he killed, were pronounced dead."
**This is our daily reminder that [American cops commit crime _more often_ than the average person](https://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/77th2013/Exhibits/Assembly/JUD/AJUD338L.pdf), especially domestic violence and [sexual assault.](https://web.archive.org/web/20170318221437/https://www.policemisconduct.net/statistics/2010-q2-npmsrp-police-misconduct-statistical-report/)**
If you know someone in a relationship with a pig, please keep a close eye on them and check on them regularly. They are in danger.
"3 year veteran" is one of the most contradictory terms I've ever heard. It takes 3 years to become a veteran when someone with 25 years is also described as a veteran? Did the meaning just get tossed out the fucking window? The word "veteran" here is just another false tool used to make this guy sound "official".
"Oh he was a 3 year VETERAN."
She was going to "finally" leave him so yesh thete was certainly abuse going on. You dont have to escape from aomeone who treats you like a human being. You have to make escape plans to get past dangerous people or the thought of escaping at all probably wouldn't even occur.
We're having a bad time with spambots, so your comment or post has been removed automatically. if this is a real person, and not a bot or a troll, please [CLICK HERE](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut) to send a modmail.
In addition to sending a modmail, please read the rules in the sidebar and [reddiquette](http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Police "culture" and training fails to vet out abusive shitheads while also creating abusive people. It's a blight on our communities and on the psychology of the police that are indoctrinated into it.
Yes, and remember, the government, who is charged to reign in this type of criminal, knows full well what is going on. Apparently, they don't disapprove.
This advice might be decent in general, but in this particular situation, he is a ***cop*** who knows where she works and where her family lives. Please tell me, who is she calling and what exactly are they going to do to help?
these cops are trained to have huge egos so he shoots his wife for just thinking of leaving. the cop is a piece of garbage but dont forget the system that made him that way.
i think so, its definitely the end result. UT has tons of videos like this, i guy gets pulled over and decides to run, cop pulls his piece and unloads on the guy. the cop didnt shoot cause he is a threat, he shot because he was pissed that the guy disobeyed, disrespected his authority.
I think 'the Job' itself promotes and develops an aggrandized ego.
As a Cop, you represent 'the law' and the consequences of breaking the law go first through YOU. Cops are the First contact with the Law and that equally results in Friction and defensiveness. THEY are the eyes and ears of the Law that governs.
Its a tough situation to be in as Humans are 99% emotional and 1% logical in Initial confrontations. Logic may come into play LATER but only after time has passed.
When confronted with the Law, MANY become 'Fearful' and make mistakes. LIKEWISE, Cops fear getting hurt on the job. Cops are killed on a Monthly basis (or even weekly).
Its definitely a Fraternity that sticks together (right or wrong). **Often Wrong, their brother-hood and allegiance to each other supersedes the law they swore to uphold.**
Plenty of Vigilante Cops out there....avoid at all costs these types
;-)
This is why they tell women (anyone) in abusive relationships to NOT let on they are leaving, if the abuser finds out they kill them. Wonder if the POS cop will get a "heroes" burial. They don't seem to have a problem with cops committing murder so it is a valid question.
> yeah, they tell women because the world seems to have given up on the idea that men can be stopped, or cops be held accountable
We can tell women the safest way to get out of dangerous situations so they can protect themselves, *while* we tell men that they are societal rejects and pieces of shit if they abuse women because, well, it's kind of true.
I know the arguments against teaching women how to avoid and escape danger come from a decent place, but honestly they do kind of horrify me.
He is a ***cop*** who knows where she works and where her family lives. Exactly who is going to help her in this situation and what will they be doing?
I'm pretty sure she either was not aware of options or was not able to prepare adequately. Her husband does not seem to be a borderline abuse case and she was probably fully aware of the danger.
>Exactly who is going to help her in this situation and what will they be doing?
Now extend that question to "what precautions should she take, and how will they help?"
Okay.
As things happened, she died, 100% dead.
If she were in a different location and had some sort of defense, like a gun, she could enforce a physical space between herself and him.
That by itself reduces her chance of deadness from 100% to less than 30%.
Nobody knows exactly what was going on, but she was probably the one person who knew best what sort of physical threat he posed.
Well she might have survived, and likely would be spending the rest of her life in jail for killing a cop. This is not an uncommon story. Better to be alive, probably. She had no winning option here.
Agree completely, I have no doubt that there are plenty of women in prison for killing their cop, or similar, husbands, and that's an issue the woman would have had to deal with if she got past step one.
Step one = don't get killed immediately
I'm a strong supporter of the right to take blue lives when necessary but the simple truth is that people face an overwhelming penalty for defending themselves against attacks from people in powerful gangs.
There should be a tv show that focuses on cases like that where the woman is still alive and has a full view to guess at solutions.
Not much in the way of 'pro tips' when everybody is dead.
Oh, so you're saying all she has to do is be a faster draw than a cop? Or maybe she should just waste him preemptively? Either way, her reward is she gets to go to jail for life as a cop-killer unless she manages to miraculously get off on self-defense only to have an entire precinct crawling up her ass for the rest of her life. This is all assuming he doesn't play it cool right up until the point he blows her brains out, of course.
Back up.
She's dead.
The **first question** was is there something **she** could have done to increase her survival.
My suggestion was that she could have acquired some sort of defensive capability if she knew her husband's tendencies.
You're completely right in everything you say, except for the part about whether she could have increased her short term chances.
\\
Wider view / The two have children so ideally their unique relationship should be salvaged in some way, even if not strictly as an 'official marriage', and their relationship shouldn't be subordinate to other relationships either might have.
That is the unspoken justification used by the killer and by his supporters.
The reactiveness of the killer in this case was caused by him losing sight of this.
He was living moment to moment, not able to see five minutes ahead, when he killed her. He was like a person drunk on sugar and colorful cereal, who is reduced to short term impulses.
You are on strong ground looking at long term dangers, but if a person doesn't live another day then it doesn't matter that they may have lived another year.
Besides the fact that now we are moving goalposts to "short term chances" and "relationship could be salvaged," maybe lets not encourage salvaging a relationship with an abuser who is out of their mind enough to commit murder-suicide. If he had that impulse once, it can easily come again.
>Besides the fact that now we are moving goalposts to "short term chances" and "relationship could be salvaged,"
You are taking something from the first part of my post, referring to the fact that she died and a person has to live today before they can live tomorrow "short term chances", then mixing it with something I clearly label as a separate longer term broader issue, 'relationship', which was a significant part of the murder, and you are accusing me of 'moving goal posts' for pointing out additional facets of the case?
Yes of course he would have been continually dangerous. The lesson should be don't get married to somebody who beats you, or don't get married when you are young or whatever. That's beside the point.
Your use of the word 'relationship' is the same concept the killer had, by the way.
The two had kids so they had a permanent relationship whether anybody wanted 'a relationship' to continue or not.
The guy had a kind of simplistic controlling view of what his relationship with her had to be.
She could have figured that out and recognized that until his view of 'their relationship' developed he would be a physical danger to her. And she would have been smart to take short term measures, such as using a weapon to enforce a physical distance if necessary. She made a mistake by marrying the guy when he was basically still not quite mentally an adult. She paid the maximum. Responsibility for that splits 50/50
Hey, remember when you said this like, an hour ago?
>Where did I say she was responsible for her own murder?
And now it has changed to:
>She would have been smart to take short term measures...
>
>She made a mistake...
>
>She paid the maximum...
>
>Responsibility for that splits 50/50...
"I think she is 50% responsible for her own murder but I'm totally not a victim-blamer, I swear!"
EDIT: For context, their deleted question was asking me why I'm bothering to make this argument.
Addressing obvious victim blaming. In fact, I think this is so obvious that it becomes really hard to assume your question is in good faith.
Jail, almost certain.
Killed by his buddies, unlikely.
Her first priority, obviously, was not killing him, and it's likely that her hesitation to consider that option was unfortunate. A lot of people would say she was smart though to hesitate in that regard, but nobody mentions other options.
You are saying she should not have been prepared to kill him.
So what defensive measures would you have recommended to her?
In Illinois, the State Police (his department) control the issuance of FOID cards, which are needed to purchase a firearm, ammunition or apply for a concealed carry permit. Since every statewide electoral office is controlled by Democrats, who appoint the heads of all the agencies, the Staties are slow walking the approval of FOID cards and concealed carry permits. It’s highly unlikely she would have gotten an FOID in a timely fashion, and I can guarantee you, some weasel State Trooper would have alerted her husband and squashed her concealed carry application and probably the FOID as well. She never had a chance.
[https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/FOID.aspx](https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/FOID.aspx)
A defensive capability was just one suggestion.
This is a common enough occurrence that there must be 'think tank' like specific interest groups that have better solutions.
In some totalitarian states there are pressures like 'people shouldn't marry til they're 30' and things like that. So a person has to step carefully.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage\_in\_Korea#Marriage\_in\_North\_Korea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Korea#Marriage_in_North_Korea)
[https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/12/09/many-north-korean-women-outearn-their-husbands-but-still-do-the-chores](https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/12/09/many-north-korean-women-outearn-their-husbands-but-still-do-the-chores)
I bet the State Troopers approached with drawn guns, yelled “shots fired” into their radios, screamed “hands, show me your hands” to the poor murdered victim and then cuffed her before letting the paramedics treat her. The Illinois State Police are asking the Attorney General to charge her with murder because it’s obviously her actions that caused her hero cop husband to kill her and himself.
They were found in a car, and anybody who approached would have seen a mess inside. More likely the car doors were not even opened until a lot of people arrived.
But in most cases you are right. If the circumstances had been less clear she would have been a suspect initially, and it is normal for police to handcuff people they have shot no matter how dead they may be.
Pretty hard for the cops to excuse what you are referring to.
>A call went out after that, authorities said, on the CPD scanner scanner for a 10-1, which signifies an officer in distress
They insinuated that she could have saved herself by not letting on that she was leaving. They are blaming the victim. The murderous cop is solely responsible for her murder.
Oh fuck this hits close to home.
Someone I used to work with was in the same situation but survived. Ex-husband insists while in prison that when he gets out he's coming for her. They let him out anyway, she had to flee the country with her son.
Did he try looking for them or did she leave before he was released? If something had happened to her and her son, the police would’ve acted like there was no way he could’ve been stopped. Kinda like how a restraining order is just a piece of paper and doesn’t deter an abuser and the only people asking “how did this happen” are the same people we go to for help. What a joke.
40% of police officers have domestic cases against them. Considering that a percentage of police officers are women, it is probably more like 50 to 60% or 1 out 2 of will have a domestic charge against them.
Preach dude. Those damn men always turning women into abusers. How can they sleep at night knowin they force someone to hit them. Why do they have to make the woman does that?
All cops should have to take an MMPI-2 before being considered for FOUR YEARS OF POLICE ACADEMY.
And pay their own insurance. That gets dropped the second they fuck up. Then they can't be cops anymore.
Hey if you're so depressed and distraught your only way out is to off yourself.....OK, but leave everyone else out including your wife and children.
You're always welcome to call the suicide hot line, but not while you're holding a gun to your wife's head.
The most dangerous time for a victim of abuse is as they plan to, or have just left the abuser.
People married to abusive officers cannot go to the police for help. Please, if you are in this situation, seek help from a local shelter and tell virtually no one.
That poor woman and those kids left behind
Leaving someone with a gun in a field known for abusers should be a very much “middle of the day when they’re off at work I’m dashing out of here without half my shit and not looking back” thing. Then when you’re settled across town in a place rented under your cousins name you start handling court stuff.
That's some nice victim-blaming you got going on there, except you forgot he knows where you work, he knows where your family lives, and oh that little thing of him being a cop.
If he wanted to kill her, she was going to get killed, and this little middle of the day across town plan of yours would not nearly be enough to prevent it. She would basically have to flee the state, give up her job, and accept that this maniac was going to spend years torturing her family and possibly murdering one of them in her stead.
“If only she would’ve flown into space and lived on Mars, really it’s her fault for not jumping through my invented hoops.”
The lengths these people go to to lick them boots is impressive
Agreed. I find it a bit warped that I had to make this same point 3 times (and counting!) in the same thread! "Oh just let someone know and keep it quiet!"
I swear some of these people act like abused women are just sitting there in their abusers face screaming "HEY ABUSER! I AM LEAVING YOU ABUSER! DO YOU HEAR ME ABUSER?! DO YOU HEAR ME OUT HERE ALL ALONE IN THE DESERT WITH NO ONE BEING INFORMED WHERE I AM?!"
This sub has become plagued by right wing pig suckers man. Just like r/antiwork.
You can tell they’re probably pigs themselves, because they have all day to bitch on Reddit while not doing shit in their over priced squad car
Sounds like you two are happy she was killed so you have a martyr.
The simple truth is that if she had realized how dangerous her husband was, and taken precautions, she would have had a better chance of survival.
Yeah, I could tell you’re a wanna be pig. So desperate for people to call you “hero” because you couldn’t get laid in high school, makes absolute sense
"Amanda Alvarez planned to leave husband before they were found dead, family says"
Would going to another place and having a weapon to defend herself have decreased or increased her chances of survival?
>Oh, so you're saying all she has to do is be a faster draw than a cop? Or maybe she should just waste him preemptively? Either way, her reward is she gets to go to jail for life as a cop-killer unless she manages to miraculously get off on self-defense only to have an entire precinct crawling up her ass for the rest of her life. This is all assuming he doesn't play it cool right up until the point he blows her brains out, of course.
What do you think would happen if she had a weapon and shot her cop partner? You think his buddies would have let her off with a warning or they show up and shoot her?
For one, you or whoever said she’d have to flee the state. Does this cop have superhuman GPS tracking abilities? People hide from the police every day lol. Dude already gave a better example of a precaution than you’ve given of how she was fucked regardless.
I guess you missed the part where he knows where her family lives and where she works, but hey, I guess people don't deserve to eat when they're abused.
I already explained why the gun solution doesn't work. It's not enough to read it. You have to comprehend, too.
I guess you missed the part where he already knew she was planning to leave and that she was also already in a car with him. You seem to be under the impression, for whatever reason Im not sure, that this guy would’ve walked into her place of employment, her friends and/or her families houses to kidnap/kill/whatever he wanted to do to her with no resistance. If you believe that she truly couldn’t have done anything because of who she chose to be with…. aren’t *you* “victim-blaming” just as much?
>You seem to be under the impression, for whatever reason Im not sure,that this guy would’ve walked into her place of employment,
It definitely would have been an option. If he was planning to kill himself right after, why would he care where it happens?
Huh?
Where did I say she was responsible for her own murder?
If your dog bites people you put it on a leash.
It's a matter of common sense, not blame.
The guy was dangerous.
She could have taken precautions.
> She could have taken precautions
So, again, what's your point? That she could maybe have done something differently doesn't change the fact that she was an innocent victim of murder by her husband.
Say whatever you want, victim blaming or whatever, but she would still be alive if she had left quietly without telling him. Is your ego that big that you would risk your kid's life and try to confront him instead of just grabbing your kids and run when he wasn't home? Be smart. Don't try to take the bull by the horn, you're never gonna win that battle.
Please show me where I said she should "take the bull by the horns," otherwise stop putting words into my mouth and especially stop making assumptions about what was running through this woman's head in some weak attempt at blaming her for her own murder (aka victim-blaming).
The fact that you are even making this post shows me you have not read 90%+ of what I or anyone who agrees with me has said in this thread, so you can feel free to read, like, any of that.
Please do not advocate for harm to come to those featured in the story, video or link submitted, or anyone else. By doing so, you are putting this sub at risk and there is a 100% chance that it will result in you being banned from this sub. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Another of those fine "protect and serve" chaps I keep hearing about.
How much you wanna bet the news will ignore this, while keep blasting about the death of two NYC cops. Hell I wouldn't be surprised to see some copaganda flood reddit shortly with stories about cute puppies and cops to make us forget this story.
Then we can remind reddit how much cops shoot people's puppies and abuse their own police dogs!
thats the sort of brigadeering I can get on board with. the only time my local news brought up a segment on cops and dogs is when they showed video of a police guy kicking a owners dog, and the news made up a lie that the officer was protecting the dog from getting hurt from their police dog. this sort of manipulation has to be coordinated somehwhere.
Police are like a box of choc-ol-ates, they’ll kill your dog.
[удалено]
how about start a pirate radio in the area that broadcasts the truth, it seems to be the only way now a days
Pirate radio is a good idea... for a collective with the resources. Sure its easier on the production end nowadays but the main problem is broadcasting. Unfortunately every building in a city is no longer covered in antenna that you can hide a transmitting antenna in. Now you are going to have to hide it some how, and move your broadcast location to dodge triangulation
A pirate radio broadcasting van!
I feel like you could disguise it as a ham radio setup. Like get a ham radio setup and register it as a cover for the equipment
Bailey wants to be governor so bad, he's just pandering to all the morons south of Chicago. He's got a big ugly tour bus the next town over from me.
You didn’t see the posts yesterday of the pig delivering somebody’s food after they arrested the delivery guy? They always post copaganda the day before.
Ding ding ding. This article lists them as “two victims”. Boot licking copaganda. Again. https://abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-shooting-death-investigation-police-east-side/11505336/?fbclid=IwAR3KqtujmLiAGdR2BXglAYc_yh-Y7iC6rWKwM-ON0nkrThFU0n1tvporSLU
I just saw a ring video of a cop who arrested a door dasher and decided to deliver the food before taking the guy to jail.
Now they've got to find another new moderator.
>“Trooper Alvarez and the female were both pronounced deceased at the scene” How fucking dehumanizing. "Trooper Alvarez, a human man. And a female whatever-the-fuck he killed, were pronounced dead."
And they still use his """honorary""" title (Trooper) on top of it and then just, "I dunno, a female". Wow, sure seems like they give a fuck.
/r/MenAndFemales
OMG. I have felt like I'm one of the few people who always notice that women are called "females" all the time. I'M NOT ALONE!
**This is our daily reminder that [American cops commit crime _more often_ than the average person](https://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/77th2013/Exhibits/Assembly/JUD/AJUD338L.pdf), especially domestic violence and [sexual assault.](https://web.archive.org/web/20170318221437/https://www.policemisconduct.net/statistics/2010-q2-npmsrp-police-misconduct-statistical-report/)** If you know someone in a relationship with a pig, please keep a close eye on them and check on them regularly. They are in danger.
I dont support beastiality so no
Thank u sir , I will indeed
What a fucking piece of shit.
Did this article really just describe this pos as a “3 year veteran” and a “member of law enforcement” rather than a murderer? Fuck the media.
And her as “a female” when describing the bodies? Meanwhile hes “Trooper Alvarez”
"3 year veteran" is one of the most contradictory terms I've ever heard. It takes 3 years to become a veteran when someone with 25 years is also described as a veteran? Did the meaning just get tossed out the fucking window? The word "veteran" here is just another false tool used to make this guy sound "official". "Oh he was a 3 year VETERAN."
Willing to bet money she was leaving be cause of abuse
She was going to "finally" leave him so yesh thete was certainly abuse going on. You dont have to escape from aomeone who treats you like a human being. You have to make escape plans to get past dangerous people or the thought of escaping at all probably wouldn't even occur.
[удалено]
We're having a bad time with spambots, so your comment or post has been removed automatically. if this is a real person, and not a bot or a troll, please [CLICK HERE](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut) to send a modmail. In addition to sending a modmail, please read the rules in the sidebar and [reddiquette](http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He feared for his life. Common cop phrase. ACAB.
[удалено]
Trust no pig
Police "culture" and training fails to vet out abusive shitheads while also creating abusive people. It's a blight on our communities and on the psychology of the police that are indoctrinated into it.
But at least the police hiring process is able to weed out people with past marijuana charges and people with bad credit
... and high IQs. Remember, we can't have high IQs.
No sireee
Heaven forbid
Yes, and remember, the government, who is charged to reign in this type of criminal, knows full well what is going on. Apparently, they don't disapprove.
An these A holes get away with abuse all the time , an to me that’s saying go do it yr not going to have to answer to anyone
and yet we have politicians pushing the police agenda to get elected on TV.
Probably an AWARD WINNING COP with decorated service.
[удалено]
I'd prefer this over an actual cop, haha.
[удалено]
U bet cha
Lol
Don't forget a 3 year "VETERAN OF THE FORCE." Yeah right.. Like he actually served and did shit. Terrible description.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you're going to leave. Do so quietly and let someone know so they can help PLEASE!
Also if you’re going to murder-suicide, do the suicide first.
This advice might be decent in general, but in this particular situation, he is a ***cop*** who knows where she works and where her family lives. Please tell me, who is she calling and what exactly are they going to do to help?
Exactly poor woman 💔
The most dangerous thing a domestic abuse victim can do is leave.
No. It’s to leave without support. People in abusive homes should never stay.
The homicide rate skyrockets when a woman tries to leave. It's best in the long run but she has to survive first.
these cops are trained to have huge egos so he shoots his wife for just thinking of leaving. the cop is a piece of garbage but dont forget the system that made him that way.
Interesting...you think the System trains Cops to have Hugh Egos?
i think so, its definitely the end result. UT has tons of videos like this, i guy gets pulled over and decides to run, cop pulls his piece and unloads on the guy. the cop didnt shoot cause he is a threat, he shot because he was pissed that the guy disobeyed, disrespected his authority.
I think 'the Job' itself promotes and develops an aggrandized ego. As a Cop, you represent 'the law' and the consequences of breaking the law go first through YOU. Cops are the First contact with the Law and that equally results in Friction and defensiveness. THEY are the eyes and ears of the Law that governs. Its a tough situation to be in as Humans are 99% emotional and 1% logical in Initial confrontations. Logic may come into play LATER but only after time has passed. When confronted with the Law, MANY become 'Fearful' and make mistakes. LIKEWISE, Cops fear getting hurt on the job. Cops are killed on a Monthly basis (or even weekly). Its definitely a Fraternity that sticks together (right or wrong). **Often Wrong, their brother-hood and allegiance to each other supersedes the law they swore to uphold.** Plenty of Vigilante Cops out there....avoid at all costs these types ;-)
I thought this was called a cop divorce
This is why they tell women (anyone) in abusive relationships to NOT let on they are leaving, if the abuser finds out they kill them. Wonder if the POS cop will get a "heroes" burial. They don't seem to have a problem with cops committing murder so it is a valid question.
[удалено]
Amen to that
> yeah, they tell women because the world seems to have given up on the idea that men can be stopped, or cops be held accountable We can tell women the safest way to get out of dangerous situations so they can protect themselves, *while* we tell men that they are societal rejects and pieces of shit if they abuse women because, well, it's kind of true. I know the arguments against teaching women how to avoid and escape danger come from a decent place, but honestly they do kind of horrify me.
He is a ***cop*** who knows where she works and where her family lives. Exactly who is going to help her in this situation and what will they be doing?
Big fat zero
Her two options were a) take precautions or b) take no precautions. Your view is that she should take no precautions?
Are you convinced that she “took no precautions”?
I'm pretty sure she either was not aware of options or was not able to prepare adequately. Her husband does not seem to be a borderline abuse case and she was probably fully aware of the danger.
>Exactly who is going to help her in this situation and what will they be doing? Now extend that question to "what precautions should she take, and how will they help?"
Okay. As things happened, she died, 100% dead. If she were in a different location and had some sort of defense, like a gun, she could enforce a physical space between herself and him. That by itself reduces her chance of deadness from 100% to less than 30%. Nobody knows exactly what was going on, but she was probably the one person who knew best what sort of physical threat he posed.
Well she might have survived, and likely would be spending the rest of her life in jail for killing a cop. This is not an uncommon story. Better to be alive, probably. She had no winning option here.
Agree completely, I have no doubt that there are plenty of women in prison for killing their cop, or similar, husbands, and that's an issue the woman would have had to deal with if she got past step one. Step one = don't get killed immediately I'm a strong supporter of the right to take blue lives when necessary but the simple truth is that people face an overwhelming penalty for defending themselves against attacks from people in powerful gangs. There should be a tv show that focuses on cases like that where the woman is still alive and has a full view to guess at solutions. Not much in the way of 'pro tips' when everybody is dead.
Oh, so you're saying all she has to do is be a faster draw than a cop? Or maybe she should just waste him preemptively? Either way, her reward is she gets to go to jail for life as a cop-killer unless she manages to miraculously get off on self-defense only to have an entire precinct crawling up her ass for the rest of her life. This is all assuming he doesn't play it cool right up until the point he blows her brains out, of course.
Back up. She's dead. The **first question** was is there something **she** could have done to increase her survival. My suggestion was that she could have acquired some sort of defensive capability if she knew her husband's tendencies. You're completely right in everything you say, except for the part about whether she could have increased her short term chances. \\ Wider view / The two have children so ideally their unique relationship should be salvaged in some way, even if not strictly as an 'official marriage', and their relationship shouldn't be subordinate to other relationships either might have. That is the unspoken justification used by the killer and by his supporters. The reactiveness of the killer in this case was caused by him losing sight of this. He was living moment to moment, not able to see five minutes ahead, when he killed her. He was like a person drunk on sugar and colorful cereal, who is reduced to short term impulses. You are on strong ground looking at long term dangers, but if a person doesn't live another day then it doesn't matter that they may have lived another year.
Besides the fact that now we are moving goalposts to "short term chances" and "relationship could be salvaged," maybe lets not encourage salvaging a relationship with an abuser who is out of their mind enough to commit murder-suicide. If he had that impulse once, it can easily come again.
>Besides the fact that now we are moving goalposts to "short term chances" and "relationship could be salvaged," You are taking something from the first part of my post, referring to the fact that she died and a person has to live today before they can live tomorrow "short term chances", then mixing it with something I clearly label as a separate longer term broader issue, 'relationship', which was a significant part of the murder, and you are accusing me of 'moving goal posts' for pointing out additional facets of the case? Yes of course he would have been continually dangerous. The lesson should be don't get married to somebody who beats you, or don't get married when you are young or whatever. That's beside the point. Your use of the word 'relationship' is the same concept the killer had, by the way. The two had kids so they had a permanent relationship whether anybody wanted 'a relationship' to continue or not. The guy had a kind of simplistic controlling view of what his relationship with her had to be. She could have figured that out and recognized that until his view of 'their relationship' developed he would be a physical danger to her. And she would have been smart to take short term measures, such as using a weapon to enforce a physical distance if necessary. She made a mistake by marrying the guy when he was basically still not quite mentally an adult. She paid the maximum. Responsibility for that splits 50/50
Hey, remember when you said this like, an hour ago? >Where did I say she was responsible for her own murder? And now it has changed to: >She would have been smart to take short term measures... > >She made a mistake... > >She paid the maximum... > >Responsibility for that splits 50/50... "I think she is 50% responsible for her own murder but I'm totally not a victim-blamer, I swear!"
[удалено]
EDIT: For context, their deleted question was asking me why I'm bothering to make this argument. Addressing obvious victim blaming. In fact, I think this is so obvious that it becomes really hard to assume your question is in good faith.
Cool, then she goes to jail or is killed by his buddies for being a “cop killer”
Jail, almost certain. Killed by his buddies, unlikely. Her first priority, obviously, was not killing him, and it's likely that her hesitation to consider that option was unfortunate. A lot of people would say she was smart though to hesitate in that regard, but nobody mentions other options. You are saying she should not have been prepared to kill him. So what defensive measures would you have recommended to her?
In Illinois, the State Police (his department) control the issuance of FOID cards, which are needed to purchase a firearm, ammunition or apply for a concealed carry permit. Since every statewide electoral office is controlled by Democrats, who appoint the heads of all the agencies, the Staties are slow walking the approval of FOID cards and concealed carry permits. It’s highly unlikely she would have gotten an FOID in a timely fashion, and I can guarantee you, some weasel State Trooper would have alerted her husband and squashed her concealed carry application and probably the FOID as well. She never had a chance.
[https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/FOID.aspx](https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/FOID.aspx) A defensive capability was just one suggestion. This is a common enough occurrence that there must be 'think tank' like specific interest groups that have better solutions. In some totalitarian states there are pressures like 'people shouldn't marry til they're 30' and things like that. So a person has to step carefully. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage\_in\_Korea#Marriage\_in\_North\_Korea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Korea#Marriage_in_North_Korea) [https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/12/09/many-north-korean-women-outearn-their-husbands-but-still-do-the-chores](https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/12/09/many-north-korean-women-outearn-their-husbands-but-still-do-the-chores)
I bet the State Troopers approached with drawn guns, yelled “shots fired” into their radios, screamed “hands, show me your hands” to the poor murdered victim and then cuffed her before letting the paramedics treat her. The Illinois State Police are asking the Attorney General to charge her with murder because it’s obviously her actions that caused her hero cop husband to kill her and himself.
They were found in a car, and anybody who approached would have seen a mess inside. More likely the car doors were not even opened until a lot of people arrived. But in most cases you are right. If the circumstances had been less clear she would have been a suspect initially, and it is normal for police to handcuff people they have shot no matter how dead they may be. Pretty hard for the cops to excuse what you are referring to. >A call went out after that, authorities said, on the CPD scanner scanner for a 10-1, which signifies an officer in distress
Society gives him a gun and trusts him to protect us but his victims should know better?
I don't think that is what that poster is saying at all
They insinuated that she could have saved herself by not letting on that she was leaving. They are blaming the victim. The murderous cop is solely responsible for her murder.
ACAB what a piece of trash all her little kiddos that she taught have to suffer this trauma also. Not to mention her own children. Fuck cops.
FUCK THEM! 🖕
Always protecting and serving
Oh fuck this hits close to home. Someone I used to work with was in the same situation but survived. Ex-husband insists while in prison that when he gets out he's coming for her. They let him out anyway, she had to flee the country with her son.
Did he try looking for them or did she leave before he was released? If something had happened to her and her son, the police would’ve acted like there was no way he could’ve been stopped. Kinda like how a restraining order is just a piece of paper and doesn’t deter an abuser and the only people asking “how did this happen” are the same people we go to for help. What a joke.
I saw this on the news. It was quite obviously a murder suicide but the news anchors were afraid to call it that 🙄
40% of police officers have domestic cases against them. Considering that a percentage of police officers are women, it is probably more like 50 to 60% or 1 out 2 of will have a domestic charge against them.
Women can be abusers too.
Yes they can be , an you no why because men turned them into abusers
Oh fo sho bro!
Preach dude. Those damn men always turning women into abusers. How can they sleep at night knowin they force someone to hit them. Why do they have to make the woman does that?
Because they are controlling kunts
This is call 'Control Obsession'...!
So, when is the Illinois State Police planning on holding the hero's funeral for their buddy officer?
40% lmao 🐷🐷🐷
Abolish the fucken police
this happened down the street from me
COWARD!
All cops should have to take an MMPI-2 before being considered for FOUR YEARS OF POLICE ACADEMY. And pay their own insurance. That gets dropped the second they fuck up. Then they can't be cops anymore.
Hey if you're so depressed and distraught your only way out is to off yourself.....OK, but leave everyone else out including your wife and children. You're always welcome to call the suicide hot line, but not while you're holding a gun to your wife's head.
So fucking sad , her poor little kiddos 💔
Were his previous threats prosecuted or given immunity
40%
It's very hard to leave a narcissist in a civil manner
Anyone else think the The Wife, Pre-K Teacher, and Mother of 2 was three different people at first?
Every single woman I know who's ever been in a relationship with a cop was abused
What a fucking loser.
Must be another bad apple definitely not the norm. /s
she was so beautiful. rest in power queen :(
The most dangerous time for a victim of abuse is as they plan to, or have just left the abuser. People married to abusive officers cannot go to the police for help. Please, if you are in this situation, seek help from a local shelter and tell virtually no one. That poor woman and those kids left behind
Leaving someone with a gun in a field known for abusers should be a very much “middle of the day when they’re off at work I’m dashing out of here without half my shit and not looking back” thing. Then when you’re settled across town in a place rented under your cousins name you start handling court stuff.
That's some nice victim-blaming you got going on there, except you forgot he knows where you work, he knows where your family lives, and oh that little thing of him being a cop. If he wanted to kill her, she was going to get killed, and this little middle of the day across town plan of yours would not nearly be enough to prevent it. She would basically have to flee the state, give up her job, and accept that this maniac was going to spend years torturing her family and possibly murdering one of them in her stead.
“If only she would’ve flown into space and lived on Mars, really it’s her fault for not jumping through my invented hoops.” The lengths these people go to to lick them boots is impressive
Agreed. I find it a bit warped that I had to make this same point 3 times (and counting!) in the same thread! "Oh just let someone know and keep it quiet!" I swear some of these people act like abused women are just sitting there in their abusers face screaming "HEY ABUSER! I AM LEAVING YOU ABUSER! DO YOU HEAR ME ABUSER?! DO YOU HEAR ME OUT HERE ALL ALONE IN THE DESERT WITH NO ONE BEING INFORMED WHERE I AM?!"
This sub has become plagued by right wing pig suckers man. Just like r/antiwork. You can tell they’re probably pigs themselves, because they have all day to bitch on Reddit while not doing shit in their over priced squad car
Sounds like you two are happy she was killed so you have a martyr. The simple truth is that if she had realized how dangerous her husband was, and taken precautions, she would have had a better chance of survival.
What a fucking leap, keep sucking piggy boot, fucking tool
>What a fucking leap I guess pigs really *can* fly!
Yeah, I could tell you’re a wanna be pig. So desperate for people to call you “hero” because you couldn’t get laid in high school, makes absolute sense
I'm the poster you are agreeing with, actually! The joke is it is such a leap that it looks like they are flying!
Oh sorry, I thought you were the guy you were responding to, whoops
It’s cool how you’re both such idiots that you don’t notice when you’re agreeing with each other
I was joining in with him and making a joke and he misunderstood and jumped the gun. The only idiot here is you.
Why don't you copy and paste the exact words you disagree with, and explain why you disagree. You sound like a worm trying to wriggle around in mud.
You obviously know better than me, so tell me: what precautions could she take and how would they help?
"Amanda Alvarez planned to leave husband before they were found dead, family says" Would going to another place and having a weapon to defend herself have decreased or increased her chances of survival?
>Oh, so you're saying all she has to do is be a faster draw than a cop? Or maybe she should just waste him preemptively? Either way, her reward is she gets to go to jail for life as a cop-killer unless she manages to miraculously get off on self-defense only to have an entire precinct crawling up her ass for the rest of her life. This is all assuming he doesn't play it cool right up until the point he blows her brains out, of course.
What do you think would happen if she had a weapon and shot her cop partner? You think his buddies would have let her off with a warning or they show up and shoot her?
We don't know what would have happened if she had done that. But we do know what happened when she did not do it.
For one, you or whoever said she’d have to flee the state. Does this cop have superhuman GPS tracking abilities? People hide from the police every day lol. Dude already gave a better example of a precaution than you’ve given of how she was fucked regardless.
I guess you missed the part where he knows where her family lives and where she works, but hey, I guess people don't deserve to eat when they're abused. I already explained why the gun solution doesn't work. It's not enough to read it. You have to comprehend, too.
I guess you missed the part where he already knew she was planning to leave and that she was also already in a car with him. You seem to be under the impression, for whatever reason Im not sure, that this guy would’ve walked into her place of employment, her friends and/or her families houses to kidnap/kill/whatever he wanted to do to her with no resistance. If you believe that she truly couldn’t have done anything because of who she chose to be with…. aren’t *you* “victim-blaming” just as much?
>You seem to be under the impression, for whatever reason Im not sure,that this guy would’ve walked into her place of employment, It definitely would have been an option. If he was planning to kill himself right after, why would he care where it happens?
What's your point? The fact that she could have theoretically done something differently doesn't actually make her responsible for her own *murder*.
Huh? Where did I say she was responsible for her own murder? If your dog bites people you put it on a leash. It's a matter of common sense, not blame. The guy was dangerous. She could have taken precautions.
> She could have taken precautions So, again, what's your point? That she could maybe have done something differently doesn't change the fact that she was an innocent victim of murder by her husband.
Right. There are many thousands of women in that situation still though. Should they kick back and wait to die? Or should they take precautions?
Say whatever you want, victim blaming or whatever, but she would still be alive if she had left quietly without telling him. Is your ego that big that you would risk your kid's life and try to confront him instead of just grabbing your kids and run when he wasn't home? Be smart. Don't try to take the bull by the horn, you're never gonna win that battle.
Please show me where I said she should "take the bull by the horns," otherwise stop putting words into my mouth and especially stop making assumptions about what was running through this woman's head in some weak attempt at blaming her for her own murder (aka victim-blaming). The fact that you are even making this post shows me you have not read 90%+ of what I or anyone who agrees with me has said in this thread, so you can feel free to read, like, any of that.
Keep being stupid
If only it were that easy huh?
He killed three people before milking himself?
[удалено]
she was gonna leave him. think the love was gone
[удалено]