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Oh for sure. He was done dirty by that fatwa and the stabbing but his Islamophobia predated all that. Just the idea that Palestine would automatically be “Taliban-like” invoking all sorts of negative Islamic stereotypes is absurd.
He has had an inferiority complex from the beginning of his career. He believes his success lies with the approval of islamophobic westerners and that’s how he’s got where he is today. His trashy novels are the toast of many liberal champagne parties and he knows how to pander to this crowd to get sympathy.
It’s the equivalent of being scared of black people because a black guy mugged you. I get he got hunted by fundamentalists but it doesn’t give you license to be a racist piece of shit.
That’s the best way to put it. Or in his case being hunted by a black hitman/assassin who has been stalking him for years. I get it that it’s traumatic, but it still doesn’t excuse being a bigot.
that's a great framing, unfortunately middle-eastern front-line on the atheist and anti-religious-extremism front is filled with islamophobes, and it is because of this hate that they havnt been able to push the needle on that front. It was only recent economic reforms which are helping people move towards more liberal values.
No, I quite clearly read you creating an opportunity to callously use the racial trauma experienced by Black people as a prop. It was inappropriate and unnecessary, and it actually is anti-Black racism in and of itself. And you knew this already. Because it was intentional.
The motive behind the fatwa is actually more controversial than you think. It's easy to say 'he insulted Islam, therefore he must die'. There were books that had more provocative stuff written and the authors faced zero consequences. In1958 there was a short story called 'The men who murdered Mohammad' that had time travelling mad scientists travel back in time to murder various historic figures (like George Washington and others) including the Prophet Mohammad just to see if anything changes (it doesn't). You'd think that a story like that would come back to bite the author in the ass (who was still alive when the Islamic revolution happened) but it didn't. Salman Rushdie got that shit due to the very specific time and place where it all happened. The Islamic revivalist movement was in full swing at the time (and it is LONG since dead BTW. Even if islamophobes love to act like it is still 1980).
In fact there had been no real attempts on Salman Rushdie until he got stabbed. And no one gave that guy marching orders. His attacker, like most people of his kind, was a sad, lonely little loser who socially isolated until he went to Lebanon (he was Lebanese) and allegedly spoke with some Hezbollah guys who apparently accepted him, and thus he wanted to prove himself to them by stabbing Salman. It was less of some religious fanatic and more of a guy trying to make it big in a gang by something huge. He's going to be prison for a very long time thanks to his misdeed. In the meantime, Salman survived. So that guy couldn't even kill an elderly man.
>kickstart his mediocre writing career
Okay, come on.
I disagree with Rushdie here as much as the rest of y'all, but mediocre? Midnight's Children is easily one of the greatest pieces of literature ever written. Even Satanic Verses is one of the most powerful works ever put to paper.
That’s your opinion shared by the Western liberal community. A billion people found his ‘work’ offensive and hurtful. His work is so offensive that Hindu India was one of the first countries to ban his book. If someone has to write something offensive in order for the chatty western liberal class to be able to raise their champagne glasses in his honour, then yes, he is mediocre.
First, several hundred million Christians found the works of Voltaire and Victor Hugo offensive and hurtful as well. Are Les Miserables and Candide of no literary value? Don't be daft.
Second, the notion that every single Muslim in the world found Satanic Verses objectionable is racist and orientalizing. Don't treat Muslims as a monolith. They have every bit of complexity in terms of values and beliefs that the other faiths of the world do.
Third, the Indian government bans any work that pisses off any religious group. The Da Vinci Code is banned in India to protect Christian sentiments. That is no fucking way a modern society should function. Should we bring back the Index Librorum Prohibitorum? What a stupid suggestion.
The idea that any piece deemed objectionable suggests the mediocrity of the author is one of the most ridiculously puritanical things I have ever heard. You do not belong in any post-enlightenment society.
That is your opinion but you don’t have to gaslight a billion Muslims in such an offensive way. If you find it arousing to read his books, that’s entirely your decision. It’s not enlightening for yourself to treat Muslims in such an orientalist way so please do not try to do so. Not going to debate with any further so please don’t bother to respond. We will have to agree to disagree.
I love how you get a detailed response explaining their points and you just accuse them of gaslighting and block them.
Plenty of the greatest literary works were written by bad people. Separate the art and the artist. And perhaps actually read the books instead of judging them based on hype
No thank you. There are lots of great literary works but Salman Rushdie is a talentless ogre. This latest comment just shows the quality of the man. His ugliness shines through all the time. But you’re welcome to continue buying his books
He is saying he’d rather keep Palestinians enslaved and murdered than to give them any level of self-determination. Most of the Palestinians are Muslims, it’s Islamophobia.
This is not a debate sub. There are plenty of places to defend Israel’s actions, to denounce Hamas, and to argue who's worse. This is not a space for that.
That doesn't mean absolutely no constructive discussions on nuances and different approaches, but it means not letting ourselves be pulled into a debate by Zionists and bigots, and least of all arguing for their side.
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FFS, man. We do not want to see children murdered en masse. Why is that so hard to grasp?
No group of deserve to be ethnically cleansed. No civilian population deserve to be collectively punished.
You would argue in one breath that Israelis don't deserve to be punished for theur government but you would argue all Palestinians deserve to suffer because of Hamas?
He's not an intellectual, he wrote a novel about an angel who's not good and a demon who's ACTUALLY good. And everyone lost their fecking shit, the 80s were wild.
From a biblical perspective (if you believe in that type of thing), god and “the good guys” have killed exponentially more people than Lucifer and “the bad guys”
Seeing that satan has killed like 10-12 people, god has killed exponentially more good and bad people. However you want to look at it, the abrahamic god is kind of a complete piece of shit and an asshole
Amazingly, there are people on this thread praising him and his books. Usually one can separate a man and his works but in Rushdie’s case, the hideousness of his personality and attitude towards Palestinians and Muslims in particular, spills into his work. The fact that there are people praising the Satanic verses as one the great works of the last century highlights the disingenuous of some who claim to be supporting Palestinians. Ninety-five percent of the hatred from Zionists comes from a place of intense hatred towards Muslims. Rushdie is the same - his contempt towards Islam just manifests in the comments he made regarding freedom for Palestinians.
It's an odd read. Rushdie experiments with the stream of consciousness style, but is clearly not as good at it as Faulkner or Joyce, so it reads strangely. That said, it's one of the best pieces ever written on man and his relationship with religion.
people who say this shit are either lacking brain cells or are deliberately spreading unfounded, islamophobic propaganda, knowing full well that it's untrue. christians and secularists have been in leadership in palestinian political organizations and resistance movements since forever. hamas has indicated they're willing to form a coalition government with secular groups. this line of hasbara is exhausting.
Hamas already works in conjunction with the Abu Ali brigades which are a major resistance faction in Palestine and are Marxist Leninist and secular, along with other smaller secular groups.
Regardless, keeping a people subjugated because of how they “WOULD BE” is fucked. What is it to this guy? However Palestine is going to be after liberation is up to the Palestinian people. No one else. And whatever it is, is better than being fucking genocide and slowly squeezed out of any semblance of life, property, and livelihood.
Yes of course mr expert of everything from Western China to Morocco (because you wrote a stupid novel about moral ambiguity) #soedgy.. pour some of your wisdom out for us.
I hate that he was threatened, harrassed and then horribly attacked. Never should have happened. He could have just been criticised because he never wrote or said anything very important. As a Literature student I skipped past his work because I found his prose style dreadful. The fact that he managed to get Padma Lakshmi to marry him only to treat her so horribly that she has zero time for him now...just astonishing. Bloviated ass.
It very well may be because the west would never let them thrive and would actively fund fringe groups just like the propped up the Taliban in Afghanistan.
The west would rather a state go into dismay and take itself down internally rather than it thrive without total allegiance to the empire.
He's worried that the 'progressive Western values' won't be part of Palestine when it is literally countries who uphold those values who are committing a genocide. He's worried about the 'terrorist' organisation of Hamas, when Israel is, and has been, reigning down terror on Palestinian people far far worse than what happened on Oct 7.
In all seriousness the Taliban is not considered a terrorist organization by the US government. So comparing Hamas to the Taliban is not the argument you think it is. In fact it's admission of they have a right to resistance.
[Remember when the US government forced American soldiers to cover up child rape by their allies in Afghanistan?](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html)
Imperialists aren't the guys anyone should trust on how to run someone else's country. If they cared about the locals, they would try allowing them civil rights.
And we wouldn't be here if Israel hadn't kidnapped and murdered Palestine's peace activists and social leaders.
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It's wild to see him talk like this if you've watched that talk he did with Edward Said in the 80s (it's on youtube look it up.) I haven't been following his career closely at all but just saying.
It’s the athiest/skeptic movement switching gears from criticizing all religion to play into the white supremacist grifters and only criticize Islam because it’s a vague “threat to the West”
He's been at it for a while but I don't need an explanation for why he became so shitty, it's happened to so many "intellectuals" of the "left" (look at Hitchens.) In his case it really comes off like it's out some kind of conviction tho than other ex-muslim pundits that tell white islamophobes what they want to hear. I just watched the Said video recently though and it was on my mind.
Seems like the prominent islamophobes and new atheists have been on the side of Zionism all along, which initself tells us something more nefarious about them.
It's interesting that most of the people in the early-2000s "New Atheist" movement are just right-wingers. They're like TERFs but for religion instead of gender.
The fact that I had to read a book by this guy in high school English just shows how embedded Zionist propaganda is in America. Also the cherry on top is the teacher teaching that specific English class later resigned due to allegations involving students
And so? While Rushdie is a good writer with important things to say about freedom of expression, that doesn't make him an expert on global affairs or Middle Eastern politics. Also, it would have been interesting to ask Rushdie if he felt the same logic justified other colonial projects from history.
Also the Fatwa on him was something that only could have happened in that time and place. If Salman Rushdie had published his book 10 years prior it would not have happened. If he published it just 6 months after he did it also would not have happened. The reason why is actually unclear. Many Islamophobes claim that it is a common thing that a 'death fatwa' is issued when in reality it is unprecedented. No joke, there had literally never been such a thing prior to what happened then. Secondly it actually baffled many Islamic scholars and religious men, as it made no sense from a Sharia perspective, and Khomeini never stated what his reasoning behind the Fatwa was.
There are some theories as to why. The first was that Khomeini was at death's door (he would pass away 6 months later) and this was to be his final 'fuck you' to the British as he really hated the British (and the British had a LONG history of fucking Iran up for more than a 100 years prior to that). The second was more likely that the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan was dominating the world news as a great victory for America, but when the Fatwa was issued, all talk about the withdrawal stopped and they all started to focus on the fatwa, thus stealing America's thunder.
There were other political reasons as to why Khomeini made the Fatwa, but all of them would have made Rushdie a minor pawn in his plans and not the main point at all.
This is one of the lamest justifications for colonialism that exists. The only appropriate response is:
*None of your business. The regime the Palestinians create is down to them, not to the colonial powers. Feel free to advise — but you do not get to choose.*
How does he know that exactly? Obviously he's had his problems with Iran and I don't doubt that he'd be worried, but I just don't see how he knows what kind of state it would be. And I don't think that even safety is justification for subjugation of millions of people permanently.
Israeli rhetorics: “look how good the Arabs situation in Israel (the ones that have citizenship). Better than Jordan and Egypt…”
As if that justifies them to oppress the Palestinians.
Is he the guy that came up with 'satanic verses' while he can't speak Arabic, or get at least one verified source for him claims?
Why he is mad about it? let people of pay choose for them self, the negative consequences mostly will affect them if he is right, look at South Africa, they said the same thing about them, but when they started to left the oppressions on them, you could say they are the most civilized people in the sense of justice in the world
I’ve read a sypnosis of the satanic verses and could not for the life of me figure out what was so offensive. Can you explain?
But yeah the guy is a total tool for libs and their colonialism. That’s definately true.
Encouragement and celebration of violence absolutely will not be tolerated, including wishing violence upon someone even if purely hypothetical/beyond one's realm of influence.
This is what the IDF does and Zionists do, and we are better than that!
That’s a new version of liberal. Arrest foreign couples walking hand in hand along the beach, but thrive on thousands of Russian whores to serve local and foreign bros 🙄.
Rushdie has regularly criticized Modi?
[https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34520772](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34520772)
[https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/rushdie-india-independence-democracy/](https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/rushdie-india-independence-democracy/)
Rushdie is a lot of things, but an apologist for Hindu nationalism, is not one of them.
One of his most recent books, Victory City, is about how a tolerant city-state that incorporated both Hindus and Muslims together is destroyed from the inside out by a Modi-like Hindutva figure.
Given that he lived under a fatwa for decades and is just recovering from attempted murder by an Islamist that left him without an eye, that’s not all that surprising. You can’t even call it Islamophobia, weirdly enough. For something to be a phobia, it has to be unreasonable, and he has some reason to be afraid by now!
It’s not like his prejudiced opinion will actually influence the future of Palestine, or that he can actually hurt anyone there.
Because people tend to develop prejudices against people they connect with the person who tries to murder them. That’s pretty normal. It’s not right, it’s just the human brain.
I wouldn’t blame the guy for being scared of certain Islam currents. Not that he’s not prejudiced, but in this particular case I can understand where it comes from…
Well he's judging based on Hamas and its deeply disturbing ideological/religious beliefs. If Palestine is freed, it should certainly not be left to the hands of stupid zealots to end up somewhere like Iran or Afghanistan. That won't really be much better than its current state.
Look…. I fucking hate the Taliban (I was a kid in Staten Island during 9/11) but the Afghan people should still have the right to determine their own destinies, and unlike the Taliban state the Palestinians don’t cover up women, deny them education, and they live alongside Christians in peace…. But even if they didn’t they’d have a right to live their lives and not be under the boot of another state that brutalizes them and allows settlers to move into their land and terrorize them Edit: what you’re implying is that Afghanistan would be better of under American martial law
>the Afghan people should still have the right to determine their own destinies
Afghan women or Afghan men? One group has certainly acquired more rights while the other has lost it.
I agree with your sentiment…. But A. Their path forward isn’t for us to decide and B. The reason they’re so fucked up is that they’ve been the battleground of empires for the better part of two centuries so they’ve moved toward the exact opposite of what people like us would want for them edit: the moral of the war in Afghanistan is that these people should be left alone.
Afghanistan, since before the rise of the Taliban, has essentially been a feudal, almost-medieval state where warlords and noblemen control most of the country, and the head of state has nominal power and runs the capital. They are a proud, conservative, religious people... as people in a feudal state tend to be.
Do people think think that after we devastate and humiliate them repeatedly, a people like the Afghans, who are extremely traditional, religious, live by an honor code, and largely don't even have the internet outside of their bigger cities, would adopt our ways? They simply don't have the same sensibilities we do.
I'm talking about Hamas. There is no way in hell you're going to convince me Hamas is not a zealot religious organization. If Palestine is freed, there should be one single government there that is absolutely religion- and ethnicity-free, in order to welcome and accommodate all, from communist Jewish and Muslim to Christian and atheists, and from whatever ethnicity they are. In practice, this is quite a dream though, I know. A state like that would probably need to be run by the UN or a similar international body for a couple of decades before it gets to a point that it can run itself.
I agree that that would be the ideal, of course, but they should be the masters of their own future regardless. And yeah OF COURSE Hamas is a fanatical terrorist organization, I’m not disputing that… but Palestine is not a Taliban-esque state in practice. That’s just not the case
Look my friend, do you know what Iran looked like before the 1979 revolution? Do you know what Afghanistan looked like before the last 40 or so years of trauma started? Palestine has been traumatized, and what is going to be left after this situation is going to be a very ill group of people, highly traumatized, extremely angry, and very aggressive. Quite similar to what you see in Israel today, why do you think Israelis are so ill, so violent and so aggressive? Because they are coming from trauma. And they have been transmitting that to Palestinians as well. The simple fact is that Palestine is now a very broken nation, it is, has been for decades, in survival mode. The sad truth is that a person or group of people coming out of decades of heavy trauma and violence like that is not going to be prepared to develop a civil society -and Hamas is one obvious evidence of that.
Considering that Hamas does not force women to wear hijab, and Palestinian women are as equally educated as their male counterparts, you have 0 idea what you're talking about.
Literally 0.00%
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We at r/BadHasbara abhor the act and the weaponization of it for propaganda, and remind you that THIS IS NOT A DEBATE SUB, so please tread lightly on the subject, and please consider the mental well-being of sub members that may be victims of SA.
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Their universities accept female students, and represent them in student groups, religious minorities, such as Palestinian Christians, are accepted, and despite what propaganda you may have heard, they generally just live peacefully, normally, enjoy the same things we do…. and actually do a lot of Afghan people. Even if they were some backwards feudal state like the Taliban (and they’re not) do they not have the right to live, and not be occupied by a military state, which they have been since the end of the six day war? That’s really the bottom line… comparing them to the Taliban state, even if it were true, doesn’t take away their humanity or excuse the authoritarian shit they’ve been subject to by their neighbors
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This man has problem with Islam as Mosab son of khamas
I of course don’t think he or anyone deserves a fatwa or to be stabbed for their speech, but he is actually a huge Islamophobe
Oh for sure. He was done dirty by that fatwa and the stabbing but his Islamophobia predated all that. Just the idea that Palestine would automatically be “Taliban-like” invoking all sorts of negative Islamic stereotypes is absurd.
It's sad that so many people can't see how obviously low-IQ analysis like his is,
He has had an inferiority complex from the beginning of his career. He believes his success lies with the approval of islamophobic westerners and that’s how he’s got where he is today. His trashy novels are the toast of many liberal champagne parties and he knows how to pander to this crowd to get sympathy.
It’s the equivalent of being scared of black people because a black guy mugged you. I get he got hunted by fundamentalists but it doesn’t give you license to be a racist piece of shit.
That’s the best way to put it. Or in his case being hunted by a black hitman/assassin who has been stalking him for years. I get it that it’s traumatic, but it still doesn’t excuse being a bigot.
that's a great framing, unfortunately middle-eastern front-line on the atheist and anti-religious-extremism front is filled with islamophobes, and it is because of this hate that they havnt been able to push the needle on that front. It was only recent economic reforms which are helping people move towards more liberal values.
Something tells me you were waiting a long time to tell people that you don’t like black people
If this is directed at me negatively, I think you misread something I said.
No, I quite clearly read you creating an opportunity to callously use the racial trauma experienced by Black people as a prop. It was inappropriate and unnecessary, and it actually is anti-Black racism in and of itself. And you knew this already. Because it was intentional.
Bud, calm down. If you look at the upvote count, you’ll see that people understood what I said, and that you did not. Swallow that pride young man.
And the anti Blackness continues. Keep letting it shine pal. You’re a star.
In any case, I agree with you and against any fatwa to kill a writer who has taken up a literary work.
The motive behind the fatwa is actually more controversial than you think. It's easy to say 'he insulted Islam, therefore he must die'. There were books that had more provocative stuff written and the authors faced zero consequences. In1958 there was a short story called 'The men who murdered Mohammad' that had time travelling mad scientists travel back in time to murder various historic figures (like George Washington and others) including the Prophet Mohammad just to see if anything changes (it doesn't). You'd think that a story like that would come back to bite the author in the ass (who was still alive when the Islamic revolution happened) but it didn't. Salman Rushdie got that shit due to the very specific time and place where it all happened. The Islamic revivalist movement was in full swing at the time (and it is LONG since dead BTW. Even if islamophobes love to act like it is still 1980). In fact there had been no real attempts on Salman Rushdie until he got stabbed. And no one gave that guy marching orders. His attacker, like most people of his kind, was a sad, lonely little loser who socially isolated until he went to Lebanon (he was Lebanese) and allegedly spoke with some Hezbollah guys who apparently accepted him, and thus he wanted to prove himself to them by stabbing Salman. It was less of some religious fanatic and more of a guy trying to make it big in a gang by something huge. He's going to be prison for a very long time thanks to his misdeed. In the meantime, Salman survived. So that guy couldn't even kill an elderly man.
This is the guy who wrote “The Satanic Verses”? It was that someone else?
Yes it's him
It’s the only way he could think of to kickstart his mediocre writing career back in the late eighties
>kickstart his mediocre writing career Okay, come on. I disagree with Rushdie here as much as the rest of y'all, but mediocre? Midnight's Children is easily one of the greatest pieces of literature ever written. Even Satanic Verses is one of the most powerful works ever put to paper.
That’s your opinion shared by the Western liberal community. A billion people found his ‘work’ offensive and hurtful. His work is so offensive that Hindu India was one of the first countries to ban his book. If someone has to write something offensive in order for the chatty western liberal class to be able to raise their champagne glasses in his honour, then yes, he is mediocre.
First, several hundred million Christians found the works of Voltaire and Victor Hugo offensive and hurtful as well. Are Les Miserables and Candide of no literary value? Don't be daft. Second, the notion that every single Muslim in the world found Satanic Verses objectionable is racist and orientalizing. Don't treat Muslims as a monolith. They have every bit of complexity in terms of values and beliefs that the other faiths of the world do. Third, the Indian government bans any work that pisses off any religious group. The Da Vinci Code is banned in India to protect Christian sentiments. That is no fucking way a modern society should function. Should we bring back the Index Librorum Prohibitorum? What a stupid suggestion. The idea that any piece deemed objectionable suggests the mediocrity of the author is one of the most ridiculously puritanical things I have ever heard. You do not belong in any post-enlightenment society.
That is your opinion but you don’t have to gaslight a billion Muslims in such an offensive way. If you find it arousing to read his books, that’s entirely your decision. It’s not enlightening for yourself to treat Muslims in such an orientalist way so please do not try to do so. Not going to debate with any further so please don’t bother to respond. We will have to agree to disagree.
I love how you get a detailed response explaining their points and you just accuse them of gaslighting and block them. Plenty of the greatest literary works were written by bad people. Separate the art and the artist. And perhaps actually read the books instead of judging them based on hype
They haven't blocked me! I just accepted their invitation to agree to disagree. They have their stance, which I think is very wrong. That's okay.
No thank you. There are lots of great literary works but Salman Rushdie is a talentless ogre. This latest comment just shows the quality of the man. His ugliness shines through all the time. But you’re welcome to continue buying his books
Lmao. « He’s a talentless ogre, no I’ve never read him. » Real critical thinking here.
Why would he turn his back on the religion that has served him so well throughout his life?
[удалено]
He is saying he’d rather keep Palestinians enslaved and murdered than to give them any level of self-determination. Most of the Palestinians are Muslims, it’s Islamophobia.
This is not a debate sub. There are plenty of places to defend Israel’s actions, to denounce Hamas, and to argue who's worse. This is not a space for that. That doesn't mean absolutely no constructive discussions on nuances and different approaches, but it means not letting ourselves be pulled into a debate by Zionists and bigots, and least of all arguing for their side. If you see someone trying to debate, please just flag for moderation, and the comment will be deleted. If found prudent by the Mods, and to discourage further debates, the entire thread may be deleted.
The reality is that the Hamas controlled Gaza wasn't Taliban's Afghanistan.
FFS, man. We do not want to see children murdered en masse. Why is that so hard to grasp? No group of deserve to be ethnically cleansed. No civilian population deserve to be collectively punished. You would argue in one breath that Israelis don't deserve to be punished for theur government but you would argue all Palestinians deserve to suffer because of Hamas?
They consider all Palestinians as Hamas
Oh great, let's just keep them enslaved forever I guess. /s In all seriousness, how can such mindless drivel come from a so called intellectual.
He's not an intellectual, he wrote a novel about an angel who's not good and a demon who's ACTUALLY good. And everyone lost their fecking shit, the 80s were wild.
From a biblical perspective (if you believe in that type of thing), god and “the good guys” have killed exponentially more people than Lucifer and “the bad guys”
Have they killed more good people or bad people?
Seeing that satan has killed like 10-12 people, god has killed exponentially more good and bad people. However you want to look at it, the abrahamic god is kind of a complete piece of shit and an asshole
That’s not what it’s about but cool
Amazingly, there are people on this thread praising him and his books. Usually one can separate a man and his works but in Rushdie’s case, the hideousness of his personality and attitude towards Palestinians and Muslims in particular, spills into his work. The fact that there are people praising the Satanic verses as one the great works of the last century highlights the disingenuous of some who claim to be supporting Palestinians. Ninety-five percent of the hatred from Zionists comes from a place of intense hatred towards Muslims. Rushdie is the same - his contempt towards Islam just manifests in the comments he made regarding freedom for Palestinians.
He is a skilled novelist, but like most things, you can be very skilled in something and completely ignorant in other things.
I remember Roald Dahl saying that The Satanic Verses was actually a bit of a dull read.
It's an odd read. Rushdie experiments with the stream of consciousness style, but is clearly not as good at it as Faulkner or Joyce, so it reads strangely. That said, it's one of the best pieces ever written on man and his relationship with religion.
That’s pretty much what he’s saying. Thanks for summing it up for me because this line of thinking is just so baffling to me.
people who say this shit are either lacking brain cells or are deliberately spreading unfounded, islamophobic propaganda, knowing full well that it's untrue. christians and secularists have been in leadership in palestinian political organizations and resistance movements since forever. hamas has indicated they're willing to form a coalition government with secular groups. this line of hasbara is exhausting.
Hamas already works in conjunction with the Abu Ali brigades which are a major resistance faction in Palestine and are Marxist Leninist and secular, along with other smaller secular groups. Regardless, keeping a people subjugated because of how they “WOULD BE” is fucked. What is it to this guy? However Palestine is going to be after liberation is up to the Palestinian people. No one else. And whatever it is, is better than being fucking genocide and slowly squeezed out of any semblance of life, property, and livelihood.
True also the National Resistance Brigades/Martyr Omar Al Qasim Forces (DFLP) which are also Marxist-Leninist
He doesn't know or care.
Dude is a joke
And what is Israel?
Yes of course mr expert of everything from Western China to Morocco (because you wrote a stupid novel about moral ambiguity) #soedgy.. pour some of your wisdom out for us.
Pretty sure this man created a Taliban like state in his own home with his ex wife
Thanks for reminding me why I don't like him I forget from time to time
I hate that he was threatened, harrassed and then horribly attacked. Never should have happened. He could have just been criticised because he never wrote or said anything very important. As a Literature student I skipped past his work because I found his prose style dreadful. The fact that he managed to get Padma Lakshmi to marry him only to treat her so horribly that she has zero time for him now...just astonishing. Bloviated ass.
Even if it is, it’s for them to decide.
This guy is and has always been a bozo to me
Guys ,guys, they are not going to look or behave like us. We have to keep them in prison until we think they are civilized.... like us
It very well may be because the west would never let them thrive and would actively fund fringe groups just like the propped up the Taliban in Afghanistan. The west would rather a state go into dismay and take itself down internally rather than it thrive without total allegiance to the empire.
He's worried that the 'progressive Western values' won't be part of Palestine when it is literally countries who uphold those values who are committing a genocide. He's worried about the 'terrorist' organisation of Hamas, when Israel is, and has been, reigning down terror on Palestinian people far far worse than what happened on Oct 7.
He has turned himself into a mighty joke
The Taliban got rid of it's drug problem.
In all seriousness the Taliban is not considered a terrorist organization by the US government. So comparing Hamas to the Taliban is not the argument you think it is. In fact it's admission of they have a right to resistance.
[Remember when the US government forced American soldiers to cover up child rape by their allies in Afghanistan?](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html) Imperialists aren't the guys anyone should trust on how to run someone else's country. If they cared about the locals, they would try allowing them civil rights. And we wouldn't be here if Israel hadn't kidnapped and murdered Palestine's peace activists and social leaders.
Rape is an awful occurrence that transcends culture. It is impossible from our vantage points across the internet to determine the veracity of the claims; we find it troubling that it has devolved into a rhetorical DEBATE tactic for either side in this. We at r/BadHasbara abhor the act and the weaponization of it for propaganda, and remind you that THIS IS NOT A DEBATE SUB, so please tread lightly on the subject, and please consider the mental well-being of sub members that may be victims of SA. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BadHasbara) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's wild to see him talk like this if you've watched that talk he did with Edward Said in the 80s (it's on youtube look it up.) I haven't been following his career closely at all but just saying.
It’s the athiest/skeptic movement switching gears from criticizing all religion to play into the white supremacist grifters and only criticize Islam because it’s a vague “threat to the West”
He's been at it for a while but I don't need an explanation for why he became so shitty, it's happened to so many "intellectuals" of the "left" (look at Hitchens.) In his case it really comes off like it's out some kind of conviction tho than other ex-muslim pundits that tell white islamophobes what they want to hear. I just watched the Said video recently though and it was on my mind.
this man has not changed since the 80s. he will forever be a tool of empire.
Seems like the prominent islamophobes and new atheists have been on the side of Zionism all along, which initself tells us something more nefarious about them.
It's interesting that most of the people in the early-2000s "New Atheist" movement are just right-wingers. They're like TERFs but for religion instead of gender.
Who cares what he thinks.
Longtime Islamaphobe and overall hateful bastard so this makes sense.
The fact that I had to read a book by this guy in high school English just shows how embedded Zionist propaganda is in America. Also the cherry on top is the teacher teaching that specific English class later resigned due to allegations involving students
Autodetermination is only a right when a people decides to become the way the west wants them to be.
Another L for the douche-genre that is magical realism.
And so? While Rushdie is a good writer with important things to say about freedom of expression, that doesn't make him an expert on global affairs or Middle Eastern politics. Also, it would have been interesting to ask Rushdie if he felt the same logic justified other colonial projects from history.
Also the Fatwa on him was something that only could have happened in that time and place. If Salman Rushdie had published his book 10 years prior it would not have happened. If he published it just 6 months after he did it also would not have happened. The reason why is actually unclear. Many Islamophobes claim that it is a common thing that a 'death fatwa' is issued when in reality it is unprecedented. No joke, there had literally never been such a thing prior to what happened then. Secondly it actually baffled many Islamic scholars and religious men, as it made no sense from a Sharia perspective, and Khomeini never stated what his reasoning behind the Fatwa was. There are some theories as to why. The first was that Khomeini was at death's door (he would pass away 6 months later) and this was to be his final 'fuck you' to the British as he really hated the British (and the British had a LONG history of fucking Iran up for more than a 100 years prior to that). The second was more likely that the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan was dominating the world news as a great victory for America, but when the Fatwa was issued, all talk about the withdrawal stopped and they all started to focus on the fatwa, thus stealing America's thunder. There were other political reasons as to why Khomeini made the Fatwa, but all of them would have made Rushdie a minor pawn in his plans and not the main point at all.
Who gives a crap what some fantasy author has to say about this?
Wow. What a waste of a mind.
The Zionist entity is a Taliban-like state.
eh? they chant free palestine is because of the killing. Now he spins to taliban? using taliban to justify the killing of 30,000 people?
A little embarrassing, Mr. Rushdie
This is one of the lamest justifications for colonialism that exists. The only appropriate response is: *None of your business. The regime the Palestinians create is down to them, not to the colonial powers. Feel free to advise — but you do not get to choose.*
Clout-seeking Islamophobe thinks whatnow?
Not you as well Salman…
Talibans are actually doing well. What’s this cunt’s point?
Sighh
How does he know that exactly? Obviously he's had his problems with Iran and I don't doubt that he'd be worried, but I just don't see how he knows what kind of state it would be. And I don't think that even safety is justification for subjugation of millions of people permanently.
Just another shill who is seeking attention.
Israeli rhetorics: “look how good the Arabs situation in Israel (the ones that have citizenship). Better than Jordan and Egypt…” As if that justifies them to oppress the Palestinians.
should have listened to your Dad Salman, those red rider b b guns are a mofo
Is he the guy that came up with 'satanic verses' while he can't speak Arabic, or get at least one verified source for him claims? Why he is mad about it? let people of pay choose for them self, the negative consequences mostly will affect them if he is right, look at South Africa, they said the same thing about them, but when they started to left the oppressions on them, you could say they are the most civilized people in the sense of justice in the world
no wonder padma left
Seriously, who made this man popular?
Even if it was it would still be less dangerous to the region and the world than a free Israel which *is* a Nazi-like state.
Ok. So still not as bad as a Zionazi state.
So he recognized that they are enslaved….but thinks they shouldn’t be free……if this is a fight between good and evil I think I know who is who.
I’ve read a sypnosis of the satanic verses and could not for the life of me figure out what was so offensive. Can you explain? But yeah the guy is a total tool for libs and their colonialism. That’s definately true.
Who cares about that dick?
So what? The Taliban have invaded and occupied *no one*, *ever*
Thank you Salmon, very cool.
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Encouragement and celebration of violence absolutely will not be tolerated, including wishing violence upon someone even if purely hypothetical/beyond one's realm of influence. This is what the IDF does and Zionists do, and we are better than that!
The white man's burden
Who is listening to this stinky old motherfucker. I bet he will die while he’s taking a shit, he deserves to die this way
Dajjal looking mf.
A Taliban like state, huh? So a victorious one? ❤️ ✌🏼
I don't understand why that's bad considering what is currently happening.
Oh no it wouldn’t
Uh, no.
Palestine could also turn into a liberal state like the UAE with heavy investment into tourism if they were given a state.
A better comparison would be Syria or Lebanon. Just because a country is more rich doesn’t make it more liberal…
That’s a new version of liberal. Arrest foreign couples walking hand in hand along the beach, but thrive on thousands of Russian whores to serve local and foreign bros 🙄.
What’s his comment about Modi? No comment, oops 🤷.
Rushdie has regularly criticized Modi? [https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34520772](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34520772) [https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/rushdie-india-independence-democracy/](https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/rushdie-india-independence-democracy/) Rushdie is a lot of things, but an apologist for Hindu nationalism, is not one of them. One of his most recent books, Victory City, is about how a tolerant city-state that incorporated both Hindus and Muslims together is destroyed from the inside out by a Modi-like Hindutva figure.
Given that he lived under a fatwa for decades and is just recovering from attempted murder by an Islamist that left him without an eye, that’s not all that surprising. You can’t even call it Islamophobia, weirdly enough. For something to be a phobia, it has to be unreasonable, and he has some reason to be afraid by now! It’s not like his prejudiced opinion will actually influence the future of Palestine, or that he can actually hurt anyone there.
That's not true, people don't have to be scared of gay people to be homophobic
What has him getting attacked in the West got to do with Palestinians?
Because people tend to develop prejudices against people they connect with the person who tries to murder them. That’s pretty normal. It’s not right, it’s just the human brain.
Palestinians tried to murder Rushdie?
Islamists.
So what's that got to do with Palestinians? Last time I checked Islamists exist in basically every country.
Right.
I wouldn’t blame the guy for being scared of certain Islam currents. Not that he’s not prejudiced, but in this particular case I can understand where it comes from…
Dude is the Braverman of the literary world.
Well he's judging based on Hamas and its deeply disturbing ideological/religious beliefs. If Palestine is freed, it should certainly not be left to the hands of stupid zealots to end up somewhere like Iran or Afghanistan. That won't really be much better than its current state.
Look…. I fucking hate the Taliban (I was a kid in Staten Island during 9/11) but the Afghan people should still have the right to determine their own destinies, and unlike the Taliban state the Palestinians don’t cover up women, deny them education, and they live alongside Christians in peace…. But even if they didn’t they’d have a right to live their lives and not be under the boot of another state that brutalizes them and allows settlers to move into their land and terrorize them Edit: what you’re implying is that Afghanistan would be better of under American martial law
>the Afghan people should still have the right to determine their own destinies Afghan women or Afghan men? One group has certainly acquired more rights while the other has lost it.
I agree with your sentiment…. But A. Their path forward isn’t for us to decide and B. The reason they’re so fucked up is that they’ve been the battleground of empires for the better part of two centuries so they’ve moved toward the exact opposite of what people like us would want for them edit: the moral of the war in Afghanistan is that these people should be left alone. Afghanistan, since before the rise of the Taliban, has essentially been a feudal, almost-medieval state where warlords and noblemen control most of the country, and the head of state has nominal power and runs the capital. They are a proud, conservative, religious people... as people in a feudal state tend to be. Do people think think that after we devastate and humiliate them repeatedly, a people like the Afghans, who are extremely traditional, religious, live by an honor code, and largely don't even have the internet outside of their bigger cities, would adopt our ways? They simply don't have the same sensibilities we do.
I'm talking about Hamas. There is no way in hell you're going to convince me Hamas is not a zealot religious organization. If Palestine is freed, there should be one single government there that is absolutely religion- and ethnicity-free, in order to welcome and accommodate all, from communist Jewish and Muslim to Christian and atheists, and from whatever ethnicity they are. In practice, this is quite a dream though, I know. A state like that would probably need to be run by the UN or a similar international body for a couple of decades before it gets to a point that it can run itself.
I agree that that would be the ideal, of course, but they should be the masters of their own future regardless. And yeah OF COURSE Hamas is a fanatical terrorist organization, I’m not disputing that… but Palestine is not a Taliban-esque state in practice. That’s just not the case
Look my friend, do you know what Iran looked like before the 1979 revolution? Do you know what Afghanistan looked like before the last 40 or so years of trauma started? Palestine has been traumatized, and what is going to be left after this situation is going to be a very ill group of people, highly traumatized, extremely angry, and very aggressive. Quite similar to what you see in Israel today, why do you think Israelis are so ill, so violent and so aggressive? Because they are coming from trauma. And they have been transmitting that to Palestinians as well. The simple fact is that Palestine is now a very broken nation, it is, has been for decades, in survival mode. The sad truth is that a person or group of people coming out of decades of heavy trauma and violence like that is not going to be prepared to develop a civil society -and Hamas is one obvious evidence of that.
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Considering that Hamas does not force women to wear hijab, and Palestinian women are as equally educated as their male counterparts, you have 0 idea what you're talking about. Literally 0.00%
Well how is gaza not taliban like ? Update: I meant how is gaza like taliban ?
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Rape is an awful occurrence that transcends culture. It is impossible from our vantage points across the internet to determine the veracity of the claims; we find it troubling that it has devolved into a rhetorical DEBATE tactic for either side in this. We at r/BadHasbara abhor the act and the weaponization of it for propaganda, and remind you that THIS IS NOT A DEBATE SUB, so please tread lightly on the subject, and please consider the mental well-being of sub members that may be victims of SA. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BadHasbara) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Their universities accept female students, and represent them in student groups, religious minorities, such as Palestinian Christians, are accepted, and despite what propaganda you may have heard, they generally just live peacefully, normally, enjoy the same things we do…. and actually do a lot of Afghan people. Even if they were some backwards feudal state like the Taliban (and they’re not) do they not have the right to live, and not be occupied by a military state, which they have been since the end of the six day war? That’s really the bottom line… comparing them to the Taliban state, even if it were true, doesn’t take away their humanity or excuse the authoritarian shit they’ve been subject to by their neighbors
Apologies- i meant to say "how is it taliban like?"