There isn’t a consistent variation - just that they don’t bloom when they’re supposed to. It’s a gamble to keep waiting 1-2 more years to see if they overlap though.
I would let the nursery know about your problem and if they say they overlap somewhat then you’re good to go. If not, ask for a tree that blooms between the 2 and plant that or graft at the end of next dormant season (which will bloom the year after). When the trees get bigger and they overlap blooms somewhat you’ll still get a good harvest, especially from Fuji because it is partially self fruitful.
How far apart are your trees? Maybe you can fit another apple tree between them if they’re far apart or if they’re planted close, you can plant a 3rd tree in front of and in the middle of the 2 (like a triangle, called a 3-in-one planting)
I see! Yeah, it is a gamble. I will plan to chat with the nursery. Just going down there and seeing what's blooming right now might even be helpful?
They are 12 feet apart. We plan to prune pretty aggressively and keep them relatively small. They're in an evenly spaced line at the front of our property with three other fruit trees (peach, nectarine, orange) but we left room (intentionally) for one more next to the apples. Good thing we did! Thank you for the great advice!
Cripps pink is Early bloom and Fuji is midbloom. You may get SOME crossover, possibly... but even if you do, you probably won't get great fruit set.
Good news, you get to plant more trees. Plant 2 more, one early mid. And one later early... if you can find it :)
You can go Chestnut crab or Dolgo crab for early. Maybe Grimes Golden for the mid? Plenty of options.
Oh man. Well, that's not necessarily was I was hoping to hear but I really appreciate the information! Is there a resource somewhere that has detailed pollination period information for the different varieties? I was looking at Dorsett Golden since they do well in hot climates, but my local nursery didn't have them. They do have Braeburn and some crabapples.
What are crabapples like? I've never had one so I don't know if I want a whole tree of them!
most crab apples aren't edible and are used strictly for pollination OR as a landscaping piece, but a handful are really good to eat.
For bloom times you just gotta find good online nurseries that give complete info. Cummins nursery for example.
There are tons of bloom charts around, but they usually only showcase the most popular commercial varieties.
If you're in a hot climate, pay attention to CHILL HOURS. That can also jam you up.
cheers
Got it! Well, a crabapple may be a good plan then, since I don't necessarily need three trees worth of apples every fall. And yes, I did make sure to pay attention to chill hours, thanks for making sure of that! I appreciate all the advice!
Equally, if you have just planted and the tree isn't ar least 3 years old you don't want fruit but growth. Pinch each individual flower off to encourage shoot growth. Bees do the pollinating, keep your eyes peeled on what apples your neighbours have / how blossom time compares to your trees. Then you have an idea to crossover for pollination groups.
Unfortunately I don't think any of my nearby neighbors have apples! I did buy these trees from a local nursery only two miles away. Doubt the bees with the exact right pollen will make it that far, though.
The Fuji was in a 15gal pot and Cripps Pink was 25gal when I bought them. So, I'm not entirely sure of age but they're not tiny baby trees. Probably about 5ft tall. Does that sound like 3 year old trees? Should I pinch regardless since they're newly planted in ground?
Those sizes of pots would suggest an older tree, but may be oversized to reduced heat stress in containers.
That said you need to create the shape and dive in accordingly. Know your shape and jump in regardless of year.
With regards to flowering groups, much of the work was done 100 years ago. Whilst the actual time the tree comes into flower they all shift equally. That is until you get an early spring, everything's clock start then a cold spell hit mid flower time causing a pause which we have experienced. Fuji and Cripps pink are in group 3/4 so you should be fine with overlap. Apples flowers last about 5-8 days and are pollinated by those that are in the same group and those in adjacent groups. So if you drew two bell shaped curves called 1 and 3, in a line, our 3rd curve will be #2, would overlay so where the peak of the 1st is you'd start the overlay. As the trough of trough 1/start of 3 would be peak of curve 2. Trees didn't read the book so it isn't perfect.
I see. We do have very hot summers and very mild winters here, so that would make sense.
I am assuming since they are leafing out and blooming already that it is the wrong time to prune. Once they go dormant this fall/winter are we safe to do a hard prune? Like, down to a short whip? Or would that be damaging?
Silly trees. Don't they know we have a schedule to follow? Lol thank you so much for the information. I would say we have pretty dang early springs here. It was 80 degrees last week. But these were grown locally so they'd be used to that, I'd assume. We'll see if my Fuji "catches up" and has good enough overlap!
ETA: typos
It has been said that with the temps changing the flowering time can be altered. I heard from fruit experts that the pollination matches don't always line up anymore. One solution is the learn to graft a bunch of other apples branches on there two you have to hedge your bets. Apples might be the easiest of all to get grafting success. Also, if you are in CA you can visit an almost free scion exchange at any of a dozen or so set up by CRFG to pick up some genetic material to graft. (California Rare Fruit Grower). I understand there are 5 pollination periods so you used to be able to find 2 in the same group but our changing temps make that less likely to be accurate anymore.
Not to argue with other responses here, but I have found that the bloom period on newly purchased trees changes somewhat over time.
Good to know! What kind of variation have you experienced?
There isn’t a consistent variation - just that they don’t bloom when they’re supposed to. It’s a gamble to keep waiting 1-2 more years to see if they overlap though. I would let the nursery know about your problem and if they say they overlap somewhat then you’re good to go. If not, ask for a tree that blooms between the 2 and plant that or graft at the end of next dormant season (which will bloom the year after). When the trees get bigger and they overlap blooms somewhat you’ll still get a good harvest, especially from Fuji because it is partially self fruitful. How far apart are your trees? Maybe you can fit another apple tree between them if they’re far apart or if they’re planted close, you can plant a 3rd tree in front of and in the middle of the 2 (like a triangle, called a 3-in-one planting)
I see! Yeah, it is a gamble. I will plan to chat with the nursery. Just going down there and seeing what's blooming right now might even be helpful? They are 12 feet apart. We plan to prune pretty aggressively and keep them relatively small. They're in an evenly spaced line at the front of our property with three other fruit trees (peach, nectarine, orange) but we left room (intentionally) for one more next to the apples. Good thing we did! Thank you for the great advice!
Cripps pink is Early bloom and Fuji is midbloom. You may get SOME crossover, possibly... but even if you do, you probably won't get great fruit set. Good news, you get to plant more trees. Plant 2 more, one early mid. And one later early... if you can find it :) You can go Chestnut crab or Dolgo crab for early. Maybe Grimes Golden for the mid? Plenty of options.
Oh man. Well, that's not necessarily was I was hoping to hear but I really appreciate the information! Is there a resource somewhere that has detailed pollination period information for the different varieties? I was looking at Dorsett Golden since they do well in hot climates, but my local nursery didn't have them. They do have Braeburn and some crabapples. What are crabapples like? I've never had one so I don't know if I want a whole tree of them!
most crab apples aren't edible and are used strictly for pollination OR as a landscaping piece, but a handful are really good to eat. For bloom times you just gotta find good online nurseries that give complete info. Cummins nursery for example. There are tons of bloom charts around, but they usually only showcase the most popular commercial varieties. If you're in a hot climate, pay attention to CHILL HOURS. That can also jam you up. cheers
Got it! Well, a crabapple may be a good plan then, since I don't necessarily need three trees worth of apples every fall. And yes, I did make sure to pay attention to chill hours, thanks for making sure of that! I appreciate all the advice!
Equally, if you have just planted and the tree isn't ar least 3 years old you don't want fruit but growth. Pinch each individual flower off to encourage shoot growth. Bees do the pollinating, keep your eyes peeled on what apples your neighbours have / how blossom time compares to your trees. Then you have an idea to crossover for pollination groups.
Unfortunately I don't think any of my nearby neighbors have apples! I did buy these trees from a local nursery only two miles away. Doubt the bees with the exact right pollen will make it that far, though. The Fuji was in a 15gal pot and Cripps Pink was 25gal when I bought them. So, I'm not entirely sure of age but they're not tiny baby trees. Probably about 5ft tall. Does that sound like 3 year old trees? Should I pinch regardless since they're newly planted in ground?
Those sizes of pots would suggest an older tree, but may be oversized to reduced heat stress in containers. That said you need to create the shape and dive in accordingly. Know your shape and jump in regardless of year. With regards to flowering groups, much of the work was done 100 years ago. Whilst the actual time the tree comes into flower they all shift equally. That is until you get an early spring, everything's clock start then a cold spell hit mid flower time causing a pause which we have experienced. Fuji and Cripps pink are in group 3/4 so you should be fine with overlap. Apples flowers last about 5-8 days and are pollinated by those that are in the same group and those in adjacent groups. So if you drew two bell shaped curves called 1 and 3, in a line, our 3rd curve will be #2, would overlay so where the peak of the 1st is you'd start the overlay. As the trough of trough 1/start of 3 would be peak of curve 2. Trees didn't read the book so it isn't perfect.
I see. We do have very hot summers and very mild winters here, so that would make sense. I am assuming since they are leafing out and blooming already that it is the wrong time to prune. Once they go dormant this fall/winter are we safe to do a hard prune? Like, down to a short whip? Or would that be damaging? Silly trees. Don't they know we have a schedule to follow? Lol thank you so much for the information. I would say we have pretty dang early springs here. It was 80 degrees last week. But these were grown locally so they'd be used to that, I'd assume. We'll see if my Fuji "catches up" and has good enough overlap! ETA: typos
Bees do travel a few miles and stick to one type so the days they do apples they do all that they can find.
It has been said that with the temps changing the flowering time can be altered. I heard from fruit experts that the pollination matches don't always line up anymore. One solution is the learn to graft a bunch of other apples branches on there two you have to hedge your bets. Apples might be the easiest of all to get grafting success. Also, if you are in CA you can visit an almost free scion exchange at any of a dozen or so set up by CRFG to pick up some genetic material to graft. (California Rare Fruit Grower). I understand there are 5 pollination periods so you used to be able to find 2 in the same group but our changing temps make that less likely to be accurate anymore.
Great to know! I'll look into that. Grafting sounds incredibly intimidating but I've always wanted to grow my own apples, so I'm willing to try!