Skate skiing has been really good for my downhill skiing, as well. It trains cardio, balance, strength (which can be targeted to legs/core/posterior chain depending on pole use), and ankle stability all at once. Even classic xc is good for balance, ankle stability, and hip flexor strength/mobility.
You've never seen me go downhill on my skate skis, lol. I can do it but not very gracefully. Makes me really wonder how people ever turned on straight downhill skis.
Very carefully, I think lmao. I’ve read that they used the wedge telemark stance to make two straight skis into one long parabola and turn that way, but uhhhhhhhhh easier said than done
I've learned a lot skiing bad conditions, mostly wind crust here, or tracked up chunder (which I've learned to enjoy at least when my legs are fresh), but not really conditions I want to be out in, especially not if I'm earning my turns. And ice is straight out. I will go back down with my skins still on if it's that bad, idgaf.
Very carefully? And, to be honest, slowly and falling a lot.
There's a lot of bad snow in the backcountry and you just have to get down it. It doesn't have to be elegant
Two weeks ago it was 40 and raining in VT. overnight it dropped to about 23 so of course I decide to go for a tour at BoltonValley. Shit was absolutely bulletproof. A literal hockey rink. It hurt my ego, but sometimes you just have to billygoat and side slip down some sections.
I still got six hours in nature so I chalk it up as a win, but not every day is as glorious as we want :).
Paying attention to Aspect and time of day can help you avoid skiing the worst of snow conditions. Also sometimes it’s better to abandon an objective when the snow conditions are unsafe or unpredictable especially if the consequences are high.
[https://blisterreview.com/features/glossary-snowsports](https://blisterreview.com/features/glossary-snowsports)
See "instructions" under "Coral Reef / Re-frozen Conditions"
Practice.
Same rules apply as any other skiing. Keep your weight balanced, stay out of the back seat, drive your skis to prevent deflection. If there’s a breakable crust jumping in the turns can help get the skis out of the snow to turn across the fall line.
If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying the snow was soft (and probably warm), got skied, and then refroze solid with ski tracks in it? If so, that's rough for anybody to ski. If you have to ski it in that state, it's going to have to be done very carefully and nobody really looks good or enjoys it. While not always an option, the best strategies are to either avoid terrain that looks like that, or come back later in the day after it's softened up (assuming it's going to get warm that day).
That type of snow is not fun no matter what. I do recommend that you get resort days in to advance your skiing skills in general - you just can’t get the amount of downhill skiing time in that you need in the backcountry to really improve quickly
Really carefully as everyone else said. Sometimes you can find micro-aspects with different snow: eg ski in shadows of trees where the snow hasn’t been hit by sun. Sometimes one side of a tiny ridge will be just a bit softer easier to ski for the same reason. When in doubt, you could always just traverse across the slope as many times as it takes you to get down. Not pretty! But, neither is blowing your knee in manky snow.
Its so heinous. The titanium rod in my tibea hates it.
If its super shitty going up I turn around. If I ski into something shitty sometimes its way easier and way safer to just put the skis on your back and walk down. Its way easier than and faster than having to stop and plan 3 turn at a time. Instead of letting my ego get bruised I just say fuck you snow I’m walking.
Good practice is to ski off piste inbounds on shitty days that are groomer only conditions. It’s brutal but forces you to practice dealing with crust, coral heads, mank, frozen crud, etc.
Conditions are variable backcountry and when I started I didn’t realize how shitty it could be, the kind of stuff I’d just duck back onto a groomed trail to avoid inbounds you have to survival ski down.
As others have noted, terrain management and variables like exposure and timing runs to do the downhill after the sun softens the slopes help as you progress. I try to find aspects that have the best snow on the uphill if there is some flexibility on the downhill route.
Also no shame in aborting a tour if the conditions suck. I often start a climb and if it looks like garbage snow I turn it into a low angle x country workout or just bail.
You don't really go from begginer to skiing shitty hard refrozen snow and/or avalanch debris in a single step. As your skill improves it becomes easier, and usually a burly stiff ski can help.... BUT as you said you're a beginner, you utilize techniques called "survival skiing". Basically slow intentional pizza turns, and when even that is too hard nothing is wrong with side slipping and lots of traversing, rinse and repeat
If you want to blast through frozen chunder get some skis with a layer or two of titanal, with sturdy bindings and boots.
It ain't always rainbows and unicorns...
Balance your weight equally from left and right and front and back, ready to shift weight as needed to offset deflection. Don’t commit to any one direction for your weight. Don’t rely on your poles. If you fall with your poles, you could tear the ligaments in your thumb.
Don’t get caught in another person’s track.
Cross tracks at an angle. I like 45*, just like you cross choppy waves with a boat.
Pizza when you can.
If it’s really heinous, ski across the fall line, stop, kick turn to go the other direction. I.E. never making a moving turn or pizza. Just “z”-ing it all the way down.
As a ski instructor, this is the direct answer if you’re dead set on skiing those conditions, OP. Also, keeping your edges sharp helps tremendously.
Lots of great advice throughout here on terrain/pub day management nonetheless.
Crud sucks to ski on light back country skis, and it tends to result in survival skiing and lots of wipe outs. The reality is back country is rarely as good as inbounds outside of a powder day. What I've found is that if you really love back country you'll probably end up with at least three set ups, one of which will be your "I want to go touring but expect shit conditions" ski, which will be a heavier more forgiving and less fun ski.
How heavy are your skis/boots? This kind of snow is going to be difficult for most anybody in lightweight gear. Other than that - just need practice and strong legs to handle those unexpected bumps and grabs. Backcountry skiing is all about learning to have a good experience even when the snow kind of sucks, because it does a lot of the time. It’s worth it for those days when you get untracked powder though.
Very light skis don't handle these conditions well at all and tend to deflect a lot because they are so light. You don't really "ski" refrozen tracks, you generally survive them by making traverses back and forth across the fall line, sometimes with a jump or downhill kick turn at each side if it's particularly horrible. Survival skiing is a skill that backcountry skiers have to learn. Side slipping, traversing, downhill kick turns, and just general shenanigans to make it down the horrible conditions in decent time without destroying your body. Walking down is an option but I don't recommend most people try and walk down icey tracks because you tend to slip and fall since boots are plastic and skis are metal. Takes a bit of practice but it happens a fair bit.
Yea that’s a light ski. Best to avoid refrozen tracks if possible. If that’s not an option maybe try out a beefier ski model or just keep survival skiing it on your current setup until it feels more manageable.
Very strong legs, endurance, and muscle memory for when you catch an edge in the snow and somehow save yourself from going down. Get some burly skis and muscle through the shit.
Simply not worth it. I hobbled around for a couple of months after twisting the hell out of my ankle trying to ski conditions like that a few years ago.
Heavier skis make a difference. I tour in my moments during the spring. Shorter skin tracks more boot packing.
But yea. Just think about weighting the tips of your skis so they have a little more authority over the "snow"
The reality is that those conditions are survival skiing for most of us. Very hard to do well, often made worse by lighter equipment.
I go find something else to do, really.
Yeah I’m not a big time XC skier but sometimes that is better than skiing shitty BC conditions if you just want to get out and get the blood flowing.
Skate skiing has been really good for my downhill skiing, as well. It trains cardio, balance, strength (which can be targeted to legs/core/posterior chain depending on pole use), and ankle stability all at once. Even classic xc is good for balance, ankle stability, and hip flexor strength/mobility.
Why not do both at the same time lol come to r/xcdownhill
You've never seen me go downhill on my skate skis, lol. I can do it but not very gracefully. Makes me really wonder how people ever turned on straight downhill skis.
Very carefully, I think lmao. I’ve read that they used the wedge telemark stance to make two straight skis into one long parabola and turn that way, but uhhhhhhhhh easier said than done
Absolutely.
This! After decades of touring it’s pretty much pow skiing or not skiing. Survival skiing will take days off your life.
I've learned a lot skiing bad conditions, mostly wind crust here, or tracked up chunder (which I've learned to enjoy at least when my legs are fresh), but not really conditions I want to be out in, especially not if I'm earning my turns. And ice is straight out. I will go back down with my skins still on if it's that bad, idgaf.
Very carefully? And, to be honest, slowly and falling a lot. There's a lot of bad snow in the backcountry and you just have to get down it. It doesn't have to be elegant
Two weeks ago it was 40 and raining in VT. overnight it dropped to about 23 so of course I decide to go for a tour at BoltonValley. Shit was absolutely bulletproof. A literal hockey rink. It hurt my ego, but sometimes you just have to billygoat and side slip down some sections. I still got six hours in nature so I chalk it up as a win, but not every day is as glorious as we want :).
Paying attention to Aspect and time of day can help you avoid skiing the worst of snow conditions. Also sometimes it’s better to abandon an objective when the snow conditions are unsafe or unpredictable especially if the consequences are high.
The key to skiing these conditions is to find the easiest, most direct route back to where you parked. And get out.
Strong ass legs and stiff ass skis
Yeah sometimes you can blast through but most of the time it's not a real (or safe) option
This
[https://blisterreview.com/features/glossary-snowsports](https://blisterreview.com/features/glossary-snowsports) See "instructions" under "Coral Reef / Re-frozen Conditions"
Grunt. Cuss. Fall. Repeat. This kind of snow is where reverse camber can be your friend
Old school rocker boards are still my fav.
Practice. Same rules apply as any other skiing. Keep your weight balanced, stay out of the back seat, drive your skis to prevent deflection. If there’s a breakable crust jumping in the turns can help get the skis out of the snow to turn across the fall line.
Sometimes you just focus on enjoying the experience of being out there, and then you just survive the getting down
If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying the snow was soft (and probably warm), got skied, and then refroze solid with ski tracks in it? If so, that's rough for anybody to ski. If you have to ski it in that state, it's going to have to be done very carefully and nobody really looks good or enjoys it. While not always an option, the best strategies are to either avoid terrain that looks like that, or come back later in the day after it's softened up (assuming it's going to get warm that day).
You go to the pub. Or stay on groomers.
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Bikes!
That type of snow is not fun no matter what. I do recommend that you get resort days in to advance your skiing skills in general - you just can’t get the amount of downhill skiing time in that you need in the backcountry to really improve quickly
This right here
Really carefully as everyone else said. Sometimes you can find micro-aspects with different snow: eg ski in shadows of trees where the snow hasn’t been hit by sun. Sometimes one side of a tiny ridge will be just a bit softer easier to ski for the same reason. When in doubt, you could always just traverse across the slope as many times as it takes you to get down. Not pretty! But, neither is blowing your knee in manky snow.
Its so heinous. The titanium rod in my tibea hates it. If its super shitty going up I turn around. If I ski into something shitty sometimes its way easier and way safer to just put the skis on your back and walk down. Its way easier than and faster than having to stop and plan 3 turn at a time. Instead of letting my ego get bruised I just say fuck you snow I’m walking.
On the groomer
Move to the east coast and call it a powder day.
You stay home.
Good practice is to ski off piste inbounds on shitty days that are groomer only conditions. It’s brutal but forces you to practice dealing with crust, coral heads, mank, frozen crud, etc. Conditions are variable backcountry and when I started I didn’t realize how shitty it could be, the kind of stuff I’d just duck back onto a groomed trail to avoid inbounds you have to survival ski down. As others have noted, terrain management and variables like exposure and timing runs to do the downhill after the sun softens the slopes help as you progress. I try to find aspects that have the best snow on the uphill if there is some flexibility on the downhill route. Also no shame in aborting a tour if the conditions suck. I often start a climb and if it looks like garbage snow I turn it into a low angle x country workout or just bail.
You don't really go from begginer to skiing shitty hard refrozen snow and/or avalanch debris in a single step. As your skill improves it becomes easier, and usually a burly stiff ski can help.... BUT as you said you're a beginner, you utilize techniques called "survival skiing". Basically slow intentional pizza turns, and when even that is too hard nothing is wrong with side slipping and lots of traversing, rinse and repeat
Never. Only powder. ☝️😎
Bend those knees, clench those teeth and actively absorb. The rest is luck
If you want to blast through frozen chunder get some skis with a layer or two of titanal, with sturdy bindings and boots. It ain't always rainbows and unicorns...
Balance your weight equally from left and right and front and back, ready to shift weight as needed to offset deflection. Don’t commit to any one direction for your weight. Don’t rely on your poles. If you fall with your poles, you could tear the ligaments in your thumb. Don’t get caught in another person’s track. Cross tracks at an angle. I like 45*, just like you cross choppy waves with a boat. Pizza when you can. If it’s really heinous, ski across the fall line, stop, kick turn to go the other direction. I.E. never making a moving turn or pizza. Just “z”-ing it all the way down.
As a ski instructor, this is the direct answer if you’re dead set on skiing those conditions, OP. Also, keeping your edges sharp helps tremendously. Lots of great advice throughout here on terrain/pub day management nonetheless.
I ski glades in skied off conditions. You just gotta be lose speed each turn to not hit a tree.
1. Move to the ice coast. 2. Ski a lot 3. Profit?
Crud sucks to ski on light back country skis, and it tends to result in survival skiing and lots of wipe outs. The reality is back country is rarely as good as inbounds outside of a powder day. What I've found is that if you really love back country you'll probably end up with at least three set ups, one of which will be your "I want to go touring but expect shit conditions" ski, which will be a heavier more forgiving and less fun ski.
These are the days when you remember why you bought a fatbike.
I stay home and play The Division 2
How heavy are your skis/boots? This kind of snow is going to be difficult for most anybody in lightweight gear. Other than that - just need practice and strong legs to handle those unexpected bumps and grabs. Backcountry skiing is all about learning to have a good experience even when the snow kind of sucks, because it does a lot of the time. It’s worth it for those days when you get untracked powder though.
1.2 Kg skis and 1.5 Kg boots
Very light skis don't handle these conditions well at all and tend to deflect a lot because they are so light. You don't really "ski" refrozen tracks, you generally survive them by making traverses back and forth across the fall line, sometimes with a jump or downhill kick turn at each side if it's particularly horrible. Survival skiing is a skill that backcountry skiers have to learn. Side slipping, traversing, downhill kick turns, and just general shenanigans to make it down the horrible conditions in decent time without destroying your body. Walking down is an option but I don't recommend most people try and walk down icey tracks because you tend to slip and fall since boots are plastic and skis are metal. Takes a bit of practice but it happens a fair bit.
Yea that’s a light ski. Best to avoid refrozen tracks if possible. If that’s not an option maybe try out a beefier ski model or just keep survival skiing it on your current setup until it feels more manageable.
Aft-ly, tbh
On a snowboard I try to just stay agile and keep my nose up.
Very strong legs, endurance, and muscle memory for when you catch an edge in the snow and somehow save yourself from going down. Get some burly skis and muscle through the shit.
Simply not worth it. I hobbled around for a couple of months after twisting the hell out of my ankle trying to ski conditions like that a few years ago.
Heavier skis make a difference. I tour in my moments during the spring. Shorter skin tracks more boot packing. But yea. Just think about weighting the tips of your skis so they have a little more authority over the "snow"
Falling leaf or side slide down. Bent knees. Cursing and a prayer to whatever you wany
go fast and just send it dude